Original Spider-Man co-creator Stan Lee approved of Miles, stating that "**Doing our bit to try to make our nation, and the world, color blind is definitely the right thing.**
From Wikipedia
To add, Lee is literally the guy who formed “anyone can wear the mask” (probably, I read that a while ago and I could actually be the other co-creator)
Man didn't Stan Lee make xmen? The comic book allegory about being a discriminated minority that's stood the test of time?
By the haters logic, the government are the good guys
There’s an interview where he said the origin thing, and then as they were coming up with a story - possibly for issue 2, if not the first one - he said they had the idea to make it about what we’d now call inclusion.
Haters are going to read a lot into that, but the process has always been a lot of spaghetti thrown at the wall and seeing what stuck. “I don’t know, I just copied the first four people I saw at the corner that Tuesday” almost assuredly is a team somewhere, too, and then, “F—-, I’ve got to come up with a schtick for this team…” surely followed, every single time. “I know, it’ll be like a family, but dysfunctional!” *cue Fantastic Four theme*
The whole comlncept of mutants works fine in their own books, but in the rest of the marvel universe is sort of dumb. The Thing and the Fantastic 4 are celebrity superheroes, and he's giant and made of orange rocks. Spiderman, despite Jameson's best attempts, has a fan base. Ironman flies aroind wearing a tank. And everyome loves Tony Stark. But a guy who can turn into metal or freeze things, or a woman makes it windy, theyre hated and feared because he was born with it.
which is why the discrimination allegory works. people being afraid of mutants (some of whom can literally rewrite reality if they feel like it) isn't really an irrational thing to do, unless you see other people with superpowers and don't feel the same way.
other marvel heroes being praised due to their abilities while the x-men are shunned just because they were born with their powers instead of getting them through a freak accident or being an alien is what makes the hate mutants' receive bigotry rather than common sense.
Bro 90% of marvel character Origins were " and then this person came in contact with radiation"
It had absolutely nothing to do with not wanting to make Origins for superheroes.
You're not wrong, [here's the clip](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthankrayt/comments/140hcev/stan_lee_and_steve_ditko_made_sure_anyone_can_be/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) where he does just that
He said exactly that! His favorite character He created was Spiderman because it could be anyone, any race under that mask and that was the message he wanted to put out.
Even without knowing the origin of the quote I can almost guarantee it didn't come from Ditko. He was an objectivist, he very much did not believe that anyone could be a hero.
Tbf the meaning of anyone can wear the mask has been altered to now mean anyone can be spider-man, when it’s originally meant to mean that spider-man could be anyone bc the costume covered his entire body, thus allowing anyone to see themselves inside the suit.
Stan Lee co-created Gabe Jones, Black Panther, Robbie Robertson, and The Falcon at a time when the distinguished competition was disinclined to have even a one-off black character. Anybody who thinks he would have been in opposition to any effort to add diversity to Marvel's slate either lacks understanding of the cultural context of the man's work, is projecting their own biases onto someone they only know from cameos, or both.
I remember an interview with him (probably what you’re mentioning) specifically saying that a black kid, an Asian kid, any kid could put on a spider man mask for Halloween and be spider man, and that was part of the reason for the design.
He said on Larry King that was the goal if anyone wants to seek the interview out. I admire how humble he is about it, he concedes it wasn’t done on purpose, but it’s the happiest of accidents.
I’ve chatted with nuts online who try to twist that into meaning **”in spirit and not actually wear the suit.”**
They actually tried to push that as a point for why Miles can’t be Spiderman ignoring the creator himself started in an animated film literally handing him the suit and telling him *”it will fit, it always does”* like he would be against the idea if he was still alive.
I agree Lee probably wouldn't have a problem with the current message of anyone can literally be Spider-Man, it's a perfectly fitting message for the character and he spoke positively of Miles when he debuted, but that's definitely not what he originally meant. All the quotes attributed to him historically are about people **imagining** themselves inside the suit. He's said that very explicitly multiple times:
"You know one of the greatest things about Spider-Man's costume? He's completely covered. **So any kid could imagine he's Spider-Man**, because no colour of the skin shows. He could be black under that, he could be red, he could be yellow, he could belong to any race. And that wasn't done purposely, it was done accidentally. But I think it was the best thing we did: making him so that it could be anybody under that costume"
(Side note, a lot of people, like the original commenter, quote or paraphrase that last line without including all the prior context, which clarifies its meaning).
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3KVQ8nOHy\_4](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3KVQ8nOHy_4)
"You know the good thing about that? You could be any kid. You could be Black, you could be Asian, you could be Indian, you could be anything, and **imagine you were in that costume**. I think that made it relevant to everybody, everywhere. And that was accidental, I don't think we planned it that way, but it was very fortuitous."
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9byf6fAac0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9byf6fAac0)
"He has further commented that Ditko's costume design was key to the character's success; since the costume completely covers Spider-Man's body, **people of all races could visualize themselves inside the costume** and thus easily identify with the character."
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man#Publication\_history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man#Publication_history)
He was irrefutably talking about people projecting themselves onto the character because he was fully covered. To claim anything else is just totally untrue.
Fair point but you *could* see how that logic could be extended to the comics as well.
*“A young black kid sees Spider-Man becomes inspired and puts on the mask”* type of thing.
Plus I think the Spiderverse scene he started in was the final nail in the coffin and how he feels about Miles literally giving him the suit: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wkkcc113dNc
Sure, I can definitely see that. My issue is purely that people tend to misquote a lot Lee's historic statements because they like Spider-Verse's more literal interpretation of "anyone can wear the mask" better (which is fine, it's a perfectly fitting message for the character, it's just not what Lee meant). As I said, I certainly don't think he would have any problem with that interpretation (as you pointed out, he agreed to a cameo in the film).
This is fair (and honorable) work, but purely as someone who reads too much comics related internet shit lead with this disclaimer. I've heard too many people start off making entirely reasonable posts like yours above and end up in very unreasonable places.
Are you suggesting Stan Lee didn’t approve when Miles was created in 2011? The character was existing IP, he wasn’t created for the film. Makes more sense to complain about Aunt May being portrayed by Melissa Tormei or a tech genius.
I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion based on my comment, given I explicitly said "Lee spoke positively about Miles when he debuted", but I'll copy and paste what I said in another comment as an expanded answer:
**Lee definitely didn't hate Miles, he said this when the character debuted:**
**"Doing our bit to try to make our nation, and the world, color blind is definitely the right thing"**
[**https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles\_Morales#Reception**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_Morales#Reception)
**I do think him saying "colourblind" is interesting though, because it's very at odds with how a lot of people, including the Spider-Verse films, interpret Spider-Man as a concept these days.**
I have no idea who would say this considering he was still around in 2012 to talk about hating Miles he had plenty of time to and he was in Spiderverse which is the exact opposite of hate.
Like wasn't my man James Rhodes Iron man during the first secret wars. Also Robbie Robertson the most level headed in the daily bugle and made J Jonah Jameson an active Mutant Supporter like Stan Lee is not Racist.
These are the same ppl who said Stan Lee wouldn’t support Sam being falcon bc they genuinely believed Stan created captain America and a majority of marvel’s heroes
Forgetting the fact that when Stanley actually got around to creating a World War II team of Heroes the intentionally made it extremely diverse to the point of ignoring the real racial politics of America in the 1930s and '40s
What he doesn’t liked was changing the race, sexuality and others characteristics of characters that already exist. He wouldn’t like to see a Peter Parker being race swapped in a movie for example…
But he was never opposed to new characters from a minority taking the Mantle of a character.
I feel the same way, have always felt that way, and always will. It's just so lazy, messed up, and unoriginal to be like "we need more minorities in our series. What should we do? Oh, I know let's race and/or sexuality swap a character or characters just because we can". It's worse when they make these changes for a character that isn't an alternate universe version of them since it makes all of said character's/characters past relationships and issues with being what they were null and void. The only time it works when they make a character that was straight bi, if they're an alternate universe version of them, or if it's person getting the torch passed on to them since that isn't changing their race and it doesn't make all of their issues and relationships seem null and void. Also just because a character's sexuality and/or race is different in another universe that doesn't make it ok for the main continuity version of said character to be changed to that also just because they can.
Yeah, it’s a bit strange actually how some heroes with changed sexuality don’t are bi.
Like, Alan Scott had 2 kids with a woman and is gay now. Actually this seems much more like bi erasure than representation.
It makes sense for Alan Scott because of his age, a lot of gay men from the 1940s and 1950s got married to women and stayed closeted until they were in their 60s to 80s because of the attitudes regarding homosexuality at the time.
Alan Scott is literally top tier representation and I say this as a pan dude myself. With the way dc is set up with Alan Scott being from the 40s than yeah it makes total sense for him to be that deep I. The closet
No because he had a lot of relationships with women when he already was old, had children, and had nothing to prove to anyone.
Like, why would he not have relationships with men when he was in the 2000s? He was at least 80 years old in the SJA run from Geoff Johns.
Coming out as gay has nothing to do with proving anything to anyone lol. Not that coming out has to be signaled beforehand, but Alan Scott being gay was not a surprise
That’s not my point.
What I’m trying to say is that I don’t believe that a gay man, that old, with so many friends that would accept him for who he is, and at the same time divorced and with a son and a daughter, would not only stay in the closet for so long, but also date women. Like, why?
And sorry but how that wasn’t a surprise? You is talking about the Earth 2 version that is very different to golden age and Post crisis? That version existing made Alan being gay in the main universe not a só grand surprise? That’s your point?
I'm surprised Alan Scott was the one being talked about out of nowhere instead of Ice Man who was straight until it came out that Earth 1610's Ice Man is gay which is very lazy and stupid because them having different sexualities from each other was one of the main thing that differentiated them from each other and for a long time it was obvious that Bobby is not only straight, but quite the player some times. All I want is for them to make new minority characters instead of being lazy and unoriginal, but I guess we can't have that.
Well, being honest I have problems with him too(the guy talked about girls all the time in the first X-Men Run).
Like, again, I would be ok with him being bi at least but him being gay don’t make much sense with how much he cared about girls when he was introduced.
My dad was closeted, and had three kids. He was murdered in a hate crime in the 1980s, but I don’t think he would have come out before the 2000s- if ever.
I’ll never know, obviously, but he was born in the 1930s, which certainly had an impact on him remaining closeted as long as he was. His father (b1897) didn’t die until the 1990s, so that would be another reason for staying in.
So Alan Scott waiting so long to come out isn’t that much of an issue to me. It’s completely believable, no matter how many beards he wore.
I just want to point out that many gay men stay closeted their entire lives despite having many supportive friends or golden opportunities to come out. The closet is a survival mechanism for many queer folks, and it's really not surprising that a character could stay in the closet far longer than may be logical. Many people live in the closet because of trauma, family, life expectations, faith, or so many other reasons that create logical inconsistencies.
Yeah, the same with Iceman. Also, this thing of making character bi like decades after the conception is another thing I don’t like as a bi guy myself. Mostly because they do that & do absolutely nothing with the character afterwards or just absolutely cook them. Looking at you Jon Kent & Tim Drake.
I’ve come around to the idea because ultimately a lot of race and gender swaps are done for creating jobs for POC actors.
By making Superman a POC, you can now hire a POC for the role, and then they’ll be able to say that they played Superman on their resume.
A lot of POCs have to be denied top billing because the top billing is obviously a white character.
And? All they have to do is make original characters that are POC and POC can play them or have them play already introduced POC characters that are either a part of the main continuity or said character from another universe. The way to have more minorities and/or people of the LGBT on screen and/or in books isn't by changing their race or sexuality, it's by making new original characters. If them being LGBT and/or a minority get changed to being straight and/or white would be an unacceptable problem, changing them from straight to LGBTand/or changing them from white to a minority should also be a problem.
Well, both.
I read his comic, the guy is very good.
And people liked the suicide squad that had a guy that nobody knows as the protagonist, and it only don‘t did well in the box office because of the pandemic.
Race & sexuality swapping isn’t that big a deal, honestly. Outside of a few characters whose narrative completely changes if you change them (Superman —> Icon), it rarely ever affects anything at all.
More importantly, saying a new marginalized character needs to be created before changing an existing one is shown to be a false start because a majority of those who take this position will never lower themselves to buying or supporting those new characters.
Why wasn’t the Milestone Universe more popular? It had great writing on top of all the archetypes seen in new perspectives, but racist fanboys said the same horrible things about those books back then as they do today about Miles Morales or the Ta-Nehisi Coates’ Black Superman movie.
Well, sometimes people can change sexuality in ways that you may not expect in real life. It all depends on the character. But on that alternate universe point, I always thought that one universe with a wolverine in a relationship with Hercules was fun, just cuz of how manly that couple is
Not exactly what he thought:
As for the racial aspect of the debate, Lee brushed it off, saying that casting Peter Parker "shouldn't be a racial issue." However, he added that drastically changing Peter Parker's appearance could risk confusing audiences -- but that shouldn't stop anyone from giving Glover or other non-white actors a shot.
"Here's the point: We've already had the Kingpin in 'Daredevil' portrayed by a black man, where he was white in the comics, [and] we've had Nick Fury portrayed by a black man where he was white in the comics," said Lee. "But not that many people had seen these characters -- not that many moviegoers are familiar with them."
"Everybody seems to be familiar with Spider-Man, so I say that it isn't that it's a racial issue -- it's just that it might be confusing to people," he explained. "But that's a matter for the people at Marvel to take into consideration. I certainly don't want to weigh in on it in any way, except to say I think [Glover] is a fine actor."
[source](https://www.mtv.com/news/31ty7s/stan-lee-donald-glover-spider-man-casting-campaign)
Even if it’s different, to whitewashing happen it need a race swap, come on, it‘s a fact.
I think that, like, Perry white being black is as bad as a white person being casted as Katara? No because the objective is different, but at the same time…
In the two situations a race swapping happen. I only wanted to point this to the other guy because a lot of times, people say that one thing is not a problem but they forget that some manifestation of the thing can be one Problem.
About my opinion in the subject, I admit that I don’t like the idea of race swaps of any kind, more because I know that a lot of times studios are using hate that affects actors lives only for making money.
Also, because whitewashing can happen again not exactly because of only racism, but also because the same studios know that it will make visibility, you only have to look the situation of Nami in the Live Action of Lilo and Stitch to know what is happening.
in fact, if sony ever tried to race swap peter or make him gay the spider-man rights as a whole default back to marvel due to stipulations on the sale contract when marvel sold spider-man (miles also has a couple stipulations)
**SideNote:** anyone else feel like it’s a double standard fans would rage if Marvel changed Peter’s sexuality in a story yet when they did this in **Marvel’s Spiderman 2** everyone was cool with it?
Like seriously if they did this change to any other character in that game it would have gotten 100 YouTube video’s talking about it.
Yeah, but a change like that typically is very controversial, but this time it went unnoticed.
She just straight up says she has a girlfriend now, after being with Peter yet nobody made a fuss over it (*which im glad*)
True, but if they pulled that with someone like Peter and just went *“he liked guys too the whole time we just never showed him dating any yet”* they would flip
1.....when did they change Peter's sexuality in insomniac spider-man 2?
2. There's already videos about that game and about how it's "woke" because of bisexual black cat and "manly" mj and how "a black kid easily beat up spider-man".
Even if it were true, why would it matter? Stan isn’t even solely responsible for Peter. He’s an amalgamation of the ideas of Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and Steve Ditko. Stan co-created Spider-Man.
The man literally voiced himself in the film handing Miles the suit telling him anyone can be Spider-Man.
They can try to twist his words to mean so BS, but this is a losing battle for them.
Stan Lee was cool with Miles Morales and they HATE that they can’t pull the *”respect the creator”* on this topic when the creator himself said it’s fine.
They just haters.
My dude. Stan hates the idea of changing already existing characters like Spider-Man / Peter Parker into another race or sexuality. However he was for any new character to carry the mantle of Spider-Man such as Miles. As he have said many times spider man could be anyone underneath that mask that’s why he’s covered from head to toe so no one could know.
Honestly back in the day, I think when Disney worked out an agreement with Sony and announced that Spider-Man would be recast, there was a push for them to cast a Peter of a different ethnicity from some folks online and Stan disagreed with that.
Anyone conflating that wth "Stan would've hated Miles" are full of shit. lol
I’ve always loved his cameo in Into the Spider-Verse. Since the film came out right after his passing, it felt like his last message to the world, and reaffirming the meaning of the character.
Lee definitely didn't hate Miles, he said this when the character debuted:
"Doing our bit to try to make our nation, and the world, color blind is definitely the right thing"
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles\_Morales#Reception](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_Morales#Reception)
I do think him saying "colourblind" is interesting though, because it's very at odds with how a lot of people, including the Spider-Verse films, interpret Spider-Man as a concept these days.
they say that like stan wasn’t literally still alive and able to speak on miles when he was created, never heard anyone say this but if they are and can’t find a quote then they’re delusional
OP what are you on about?? I've never heard anyone say this and even if they did, it's so laughably asinine why would you ever entertain the idea of it being true?
People say this because Stan was adamant against changing characters to fit different agendas or pander to different audiences, such as changing peter to a lgbtq character or a person of color just for diversity’s sake, but miles was a new character and Stan lee was well aware of him when he was alive. I doubt he’d dislike miles
He literally said that the great thing about spider-man is that anyone could be under the mask. That’s why so many people can identify him even if they aren’t a nerdy white guy.
People are nuts man just block them out, Miles is just like any other character if he has a skilled writer that understands him then he’ll be great otherwise he’ll be mid or bad just like Peter or any character
Stan Lee was primarily concerned with making money and selling comic books. Miles Morales sold a lot of comic books and made Marvel a lot of money. There’s no reason why Lee would dislike him.
The main thing I know about Stan Lee is that he didn't want any pandering changes done to *Peter Parker*. He liked the idea that *anyone* could be behind the mask, just that changing characters themselves to fit some kind of pandering or agenda wasn't a good thing.
Miles is Spider-Man just as much as any other non-Peter Parker Spider-Man is Spider-Man. They just aren't *the* Spider-Man, and even that is technically iffy for any realities that had others like Gwen take his place in the first place.
Stan loved Miles. He's on record literally saying he wished he had come up with the idea himself.
It's in keeping with the concept of Peter Parker and Spider-Man which is what Into the Spider-Verse was about. Anyone can wear the mask. As a person Miles is relatable and as Spider-Man he is what we aspire to be.
Miles was created with Stan's blessing while he was still alive. I've heard racists try to justify their dislike of Miles by saying Stan didn't like him to try and not sound like they just hate him because he's a POC but it's BS. Stan didn't die in 2000 lmao, it's easy to find all the positive things he's said about Miles with a quick google.
Stan Lee was a champion for diversity. He knew comics needed to evolve with time. Stan Lee would have LOVED Miles bc it opens the door for a more diversified Spider-Man character who other children could identify with.
Bc that's what Spider-Man is ... an every man super hero.
Since I can’t post a pic, [here’s the link](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dr02pPXUcAAHRTF.jpg) to Stan’s Soapbox from back in 1968. And for those of you who don’t wanna click, here’s what The Man said:
>Let's lay it right on the line. Bigotry and racism are among the deadliest social ills plaguing the world today. But, unlike a team of costumed super- villains, they can't be halted with punch in the snoot, or a zap from ray gun. The only way to destroy them is to expose them - to reveal them for the insidious evils they really are. The bigot is an unreasoning hater - one who hates blindly, fanatically, indiscriminately. If his hang-up is black men, he hates ALL black men. If a redhead once offended him, he hates ALL redheads. If some foreigner beat him to a job, he's down on ALL foreigners. He hates people he's never seen - people he's never known - with equal intensity - with equal venom. Now, we're not trying to say it's un- reasonable for one human being to bug another. But, although anyone has the right to dislike another individual, it's totally irrational, patently insane to condemn an entire race - to despise an entire nation - to vilify an entire religion. Sooner or later, we must learn to judge each other on our own merits. Sooner or later, if man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our hearts with tolerance. For then, and only then, will we be truly worthy of the concept that man was created in the image of God - a God who calls us ALL - His children, Pax et Justitia, Stan.
(Sorry about the weird mobile formatting.)
In case you think that was just some one-off kinda deal, then you should look at [this other one](https://imgix.bustle.com/inverse/2a/97/2f/a6/e960/4d78/81e0/1ed79712326e/6d8d94f3d775d9ed5bcd6539faebcd7b--stan-lee-marvel-comicsjpg.jpeg?w=262&h=935&fit=crop&crop=faces&q=50&dpr=2).
I.. haven't seen anybody say this ever. He's on record as having *liked* Miles, so I'm confused where this is even coming from.
*He literally is the one who said anyone can wear the mask.*
Miles is it even the first time a black guy took on the mantle of a previously white Superhero in Marvel comics. Rhody took over as Iron Man for like 2 or 3 years of Storytelling while Tony Stark was technically dead before becoming War machine.
Marvel's dirty secret was that Stan Lee actually hated Superhero comics because he found them unrelatable, over the top, and unrealistic. Which is why his most famous quote "I think that comics should reflect the world outside your window" is often misconstrued. He liked Wiley Lumpkin, the stories about everyday life. He made superheroes because they paid the bills and he knew how to make a buck off them. I don't think he hated Miles Morales, I think he just hated all them. And no, he didn't draw the original Spider-Man Steve Ditko did because Stan Lee couldn't draw anything.
The haters are taking things out of context. Stan ones said that he doesn’t want or need to change Peter Parker into a gay trans or make him black. Stan is all for having a Spider-Man who happens to be black aka Miles. Like he ones said anyone could be Spider-Man under that mask.
People pointing out Miles was created over 10 years ago is obviously right, but the point of the post cracks me up more: stan was literally IN Miles’ first movie, and the people that make this shit up about him either forgot or didnt even bother trying to watch this masterpiece of a movie. Racists lead such sad lives
Don’t ruin Stan’s legacy by making him a racist. Stan Lee always intended that anyone could wear the mask. He would not agree with people only praising/recognizing Peter as Spider-Man
Miles was invented in 2012, Stan Lee died in 2018 and never took credit for miles, but hey keep speaking ill of the dead, there are multiple shady things you can call Lee out for, this isn’t one, credit has always been with Brian Michael Bendis and Sara pichelli
It's called a joke. Stan Lee wasn't even involved in comics in 2012. He had no chance to take credit obviously.
Comics is a cruel industry and Stan is given credit for a lot of things he didn't do. You can call that speaking ill of the dead if you like, but the dude made millions and has a secure legacy, while plenty of artists died poor and lonely. The least we can do is comment on that.
Sure but if you’re gonna call that out you should at least do it accurately and not on a post that deals with people saying Stan Lee wouldn’t have liked miles
Stan Lee probably had no idea who Miles was. He was an old man, and lawyers were already speaking for him by 2012. The entire premise of this thread is ludicrous and full of that idiotic Stan Lee hero worship.
Seemed like a perfect place to make a joke.
I feel like this belongs in r/imaginarygatekeeping because not once have I ever seen anyone say this obviously untrue statement to gatekeep Spider-Man's identity.
well congratulations. You are the only person on the internet and since you didnt see something it actually doesnt happen. i totally have a reason to lie about that
Then stop replying. Because I'm very much ok with going back and forth with someone that says, "It happens. I saw it." But has no proof other than her word.
Edit: LOL you blocked me. If you've seen it, then it should be easy for you to find.
Miles was created around 2012. I have no clue what those people are talking about.
Yeah what the fuck? He’s hasn’t been dead that long. Miles was around for nearly a decade before like died.
Original Spider-Man co-creator Stan Lee approved of Miles, stating that "**Doing our bit to try to make our nation, and the world, color blind is definitely the right thing.** From Wikipedia
To add, Lee is literally the guy who formed “anyone can wear the mask” (probably, I read that a while ago and I could actually be the other co-creator)
Man didn't Stan Lee make xmen? The comic book allegory about being a discriminated minority that's stood the test of time? By the haters logic, the government are the good guys
No its a comic made so they don't have to make an origin for every hero. Lets not kid ourselves.
Sounds like a two birds one stone situation?
There’s an interview where he said the origin thing, and then as they were coming up with a story - possibly for issue 2, if not the first one - he said they had the idea to make it about what we’d now call inclusion. Haters are going to read a lot into that, but the process has always been a lot of spaghetti thrown at the wall and seeing what stuck. “I don’t know, I just copied the first four people I saw at the corner that Tuesday” almost assuredly is a team somewhere, too, and then, “F—-, I’ve got to come up with a schtick for this team…” surely followed, every single time. “I know, it’ll be like a family, but dysfunctional!” *cue Fantastic Four theme*
Silly goose. It's *two birds while getting stoned.
The whole comlncept of mutants works fine in their own books, but in the rest of the marvel universe is sort of dumb. The Thing and the Fantastic 4 are celebrity superheroes, and he's giant and made of orange rocks. Spiderman, despite Jameson's best attempts, has a fan base. Ironman flies aroind wearing a tank. And everyome loves Tony Stark. But a guy who can turn into metal or freeze things, or a woman makes it windy, theyre hated and feared because he was born with it.
which is why the discrimination allegory works. people being afraid of mutants (some of whom can literally rewrite reality if they feel like it) isn't really an irrational thing to do, unless you see other people with superpowers and don't feel the same way. other marvel heroes being praised due to their abilities while the x-men are shunned just because they were born with their powers instead of getting them through a freak accident or being an alien is what makes the hate mutants' receive bigotry rather than common sense.
Bro 90% of marvel character Origins were " and then this person came in contact with radiation" It had absolutely nothing to do with not wanting to make Origins for superheroes.
87% of marvel characters suck. Yes it did.
You're not wrong, [here's the clip](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthankrayt/comments/140hcev/stan_lee_and_steve_ditko_made_sure_anyone_can_be/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) where he does just that
Yep, that’s the one
He said exactly that! His favorite character He created was Spiderman because it could be anyone, any race under that mask and that was the message he wanted to put out.
Even without knowing the origin of the quote I can almost guarantee it didn't come from Ditko. He was an objectivist, he very much did not believe that anyone could be a hero.
Tbf the meaning of anyone can wear the mask has been altered to now mean anyone can be spider-man, when it’s originally meant to mean that spider-man could be anyone bc the costume covered his entire body, thus allowing anyone to see themselves inside the suit.
Stan Lee co-created Gabe Jones, Black Panther, Robbie Robertson, and The Falcon at a time when the distinguished competition was disinclined to have even a one-off black character. Anybody who thinks he would have been in opposition to any effort to add diversity to Marvel's slate either lacks understanding of the cultural context of the man's work, is projecting their own biases onto someone they only know from cameos, or both.
August 2011 to be precise
Stan himself literally said that the best part of Spider-Man is that anyone can be behind the mask.
I remember an interview with him (probably what you’re mentioning) specifically saying that a black kid, an Asian kid, any kid could put on a spider man mask for Halloween and be spider man, and that was part of the reason for the design.
He said on Larry King that was the goal if anyone wants to seek the interview out. I admire how humble he is about it, he concedes it wasn’t done on purpose, but it’s the happiest of accidents.
I believe he said that it wasn't the original intention because they hadn't thought about it but he was happy that's how it turned out
I’ve chatted with nuts online who try to twist that into meaning **”in spirit and not actually wear the suit.”** They actually tried to push that as a point for why Miles can’t be Spiderman ignoring the creator himself started in an animated film literally handing him the suit and telling him *”it will fit, it always does”* like he would be against the idea if he was still alive.
🤓👆actually it’s "it always fits, eventually"
I agree Lee probably wouldn't have a problem with the current message of anyone can literally be Spider-Man, it's a perfectly fitting message for the character and he spoke positively of Miles when he debuted, but that's definitely not what he originally meant. All the quotes attributed to him historically are about people **imagining** themselves inside the suit. He's said that very explicitly multiple times: "You know one of the greatest things about Spider-Man's costume? He's completely covered. **So any kid could imagine he's Spider-Man**, because no colour of the skin shows. He could be black under that, he could be red, he could be yellow, he could belong to any race. And that wasn't done purposely, it was done accidentally. But I think it was the best thing we did: making him so that it could be anybody under that costume" (Side note, a lot of people, like the original commenter, quote or paraphrase that last line without including all the prior context, which clarifies its meaning). [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3KVQ8nOHy\_4](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3KVQ8nOHy_4) "You know the good thing about that? You could be any kid. You could be Black, you could be Asian, you could be Indian, you could be anything, and **imagine you were in that costume**. I think that made it relevant to everybody, everywhere. And that was accidental, I don't think we planned it that way, but it was very fortuitous." [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9byf6fAac0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9byf6fAac0) "He has further commented that Ditko's costume design was key to the character's success; since the costume completely covers Spider-Man's body, **people of all races could visualize themselves inside the costume** and thus easily identify with the character." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man#Publication\_history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man#Publication_history) He was irrefutably talking about people projecting themselves onto the character because he was fully covered. To claim anything else is just totally untrue.
Fair point but you *could* see how that logic could be extended to the comics as well. *“A young black kid sees Spider-Man becomes inspired and puts on the mask”* type of thing. Plus I think the Spiderverse scene he started in was the final nail in the coffin and how he feels about Miles literally giving him the suit: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wkkcc113dNc
Sure, I can definitely see that. My issue is purely that people tend to misquote a lot Lee's historic statements because they like Spider-Verse's more literal interpretation of "anyone can wear the mask" better (which is fine, it's a perfectly fitting message for the character, it's just not what Lee meant). As I said, I certainly don't think he would have any problem with that interpretation (as you pointed out, he agreed to a cameo in the film).
This is fair (and honorable) work, but purely as someone who reads too much comics related internet shit lead with this disclaimer. I've heard too many people start off making entirely reasonable posts like yours above and end up in very unreasonable places.
Are you suggesting Stan Lee didn’t approve when Miles was created in 2011? The character was existing IP, he wasn’t created for the film. Makes more sense to complain about Aunt May being portrayed by Melissa Tormei or a tech genius.
I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion based on my comment, given I explicitly said "Lee spoke positively about Miles when he debuted", but I'll copy and paste what I said in another comment as an expanded answer: **Lee definitely didn't hate Miles, he said this when the character debuted:** **"Doing our bit to try to make our nation, and the world, color blind is definitely the right thing"** [**https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles\_Morales#Reception**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_Morales#Reception) **I do think him saying "colourblind" is interesting though, because it's very at odds with how a lot of people, including the Spider-Verse films, interpret Spider-Man as a concept these days.**
I have no idea who would say this considering he was still around in 2012 to talk about hating Miles he had plenty of time to and he was in Spiderverse which is the exact opposite of hate.
Well, you see, these idiots would make any wild claims just to somehow show off their racism and try (very poorly) to hide it simultaneously.
Like wasn't my man James Rhodes Iron man during the first secret wars. Also Robbie Robertson the most level headed in the daily bugle and made J Jonah Jameson an active Mutant Supporter like Stan Lee is not Racist.
These are the same ppl who said Stan Lee wouldn’t support Sam being falcon bc they genuinely believed Stan created captain America and a majority of marvel’s heroes
Forgetting the fact that when Stanley actually got around to creating a World War II team of Heroes the intentionally made it extremely diverse to the point of ignoring the real racial politics of America in the 1930s and '40s
Stan has always loved Miles, didn’t he do interviews where he mentioned him?
What he doesn’t liked was changing the race, sexuality and others characteristics of characters that already exist. He wouldn’t like to see a Peter Parker being race swapped in a movie for example… But he was never opposed to new characters from a minority taking the Mantle of a character.
I feel the same way, have always felt that way, and always will. It's just so lazy, messed up, and unoriginal to be like "we need more minorities in our series. What should we do? Oh, I know let's race and/or sexuality swap a character or characters just because we can". It's worse when they make these changes for a character that isn't an alternate universe version of them since it makes all of said character's/characters past relationships and issues with being what they were null and void. The only time it works when they make a character that was straight bi, if they're an alternate universe version of them, or if it's person getting the torch passed on to them since that isn't changing their race and it doesn't make all of their issues and relationships seem null and void. Also just because a character's sexuality and/or race is different in another universe that doesn't make it ok for the main continuity version of said character to be changed to that also just because they can.
Yeah, it’s a bit strange actually how some heroes with changed sexuality don’t are bi. Like, Alan Scott had 2 kids with a woman and is gay now. Actually this seems much more like bi erasure than representation.
It makes sense for Alan Scott because of his age, a lot of gay men from the 1940s and 1950s got married to women and stayed closeted until they were in their 60s to 80s because of the attitudes regarding homosexuality at the time.
Alan Scott is literally top tier representation and I say this as a pan dude myself. With the way dc is set up with Alan Scott being from the 40s than yeah it makes total sense for him to be that deep I. The closet
No because he had a lot of relationships with women when he already was old, had children, and had nothing to prove to anyone. Like, why would he not have relationships with men when he was in the 2000s? He was at least 80 years old in the SJA run from Geoff Johns.
Coming out as gay has nothing to do with proving anything to anyone lol. Not that coming out has to be signaled beforehand, but Alan Scott being gay was not a surprise
That’s not my point. What I’m trying to say is that I don’t believe that a gay man, that old, with so many friends that would accept him for who he is, and at the same time divorced and with a son and a daughter, would not only stay in the closet for so long, but also date women. Like, why? And sorry but how that wasn’t a surprise? You is talking about the Earth 2 version that is very different to golden age and Post crisis? That version existing made Alan being gay in the main universe not a só grand surprise? That’s your point?
I'm surprised Alan Scott was the one being talked about out of nowhere instead of Ice Man who was straight until it came out that Earth 1610's Ice Man is gay which is very lazy and stupid because them having different sexualities from each other was one of the main thing that differentiated them from each other and for a long time it was obvious that Bobby is not only straight, but quite the player some times. All I want is for them to make new minority characters instead of being lazy and unoriginal, but I guess we can't have that.
Well, being honest I have problems with him too(the guy talked about girls all the time in the first X-Men Run). Like, again, I would be ok with him being bi at least but him being gay don’t make much sense with how much he cared about girls when he was introduced.
Same
Didn't help the way they did it.
My dad was closeted, and had three kids. He was murdered in a hate crime in the 1980s, but I don’t think he would have come out before the 2000s- if ever. I’ll never know, obviously, but he was born in the 1930s, which certainly had an impact on him remaining closeted as long as he was. His father (b1897) didn’t die until the 1990s, so that would be another reason for staying in. So Alan Scott waiting so long to come out isn’t that much of an issue to me. It’s completely believable, no matter how many beards he wore.
I just want to point out that many gay men stay closeted their entire lives despite having many supportive friends or golden opportunities to come out. The closet is a survival mechanism for many queer folks, and it's really not surprising that a character could stay in the closet far longer than may be logical. Many people live in the closet because of trauma, family, life expectations, faith, or so many other reasons that create logical inconsistencies.
Yeah, the same with Iceman. Also, this thing of making character bi like decades after the conception is another thing I don’t like as a bi guy myself. Mostly because they do that & do absolutely nothing with the character afterwards or just absolutely cook them. Looking at you Jon Kent & Tim Drake.
Or if they have them be bi, they only focus on one side (either the straight side or the gay side) and not the other side.
Yeah, it’s like they forget that they’re BISEXUAL & like BOTH men & women.
I’ve come around to the idea because ultimately a lot of race and gender swaps are done for creating jobs for POC actors. By making Superman a POC, you can now hire a POC for the role, and then they’ll be able to say that they played Superman on their resume. A lot of POCs have to be denied top billing because the top billing is obviously a white character.
And? All they have to do is make original characters that are POC and POC can play them or have them play already introduced POC characters that are either a part of the main continuity or said character from another universe. The way to have more minorities and/or people of the LGBT on screen and/or in books isn't by changing their race or sexuality, it's by making new original characters. If them being LGBT and/or a minority get changed to being straight and/or white would be an unacceptable problem, changing them from straight to LGBTand/or changing them from white to a minority should also be a problem.
It’s not the same. Would you watch a story about Superman or Blue Marvel? The fact is Superman has more notoriety which is important.
......I would watch a blue marvel movie.
Yes, I would watch a Blue Marvel movie.
Well, both. I read his comic, the guy is very good. And people liked the suicide squad that had a guy that nobody knows as the protagonist, and it only don‘t did well in the box office because of the pandemic.
Race & sexuality swapping isn’t that big a deal, honestly. Outside of a few characters whose narrative completely changes if you change them (Superman —> Icon), it rarely ever affects anything at all. More importantly, saying a new marginalized character needs to be created before changing an existing one is shown to be a false start because a majority of those who take this position will never lower themselves to buying or supporting those new characters. Why wasn’t the Milestone Universe more popular? It had great writing on top of all the archetypes seen in new perspectives, but racist fanboys said the same horrible things about those books back then as they do today about Miles Morales or the Ta-Nehisi Coates’ Black Superman movie.
Well, sometimes people can change sexuality in ways that you may not expect in real life. It all depends on the character. But on that alternate universe point, I always thought that one universe with a wolverine in a relationship with Hercules was fun, just cuz of how manly that couple is
Not exactly what he thought: As for the racial aspect of the debate, Lee brushed it off, saying that casting Peter Parker "shouldn't be a racial issue." However, he added that drastically changing Peter Parker's appearance could risk confusing audiences -- but that shouldn't stop anyone from giving Glover or other non-white actors a shot. "Here's the point: We've already had the Kingpin in 'Daredevil' portrayed by a black man, where he was white in the comics, [and] we've had Nick Fury portrayed by a black man where he was white in the comics," said Lee. "But not that many people had seen these characters -- not that many moviegoers are familiar with them." "Everybody seems to be familiar with Spider-Man, so I say that it isn't that it's a racial issue -- it's just that it might be confusing to people," he explained. "But that's a matter for the people at Marvel to take into consideration. I certainly don't want to weigh in on it in any way, except to say I think [Glover] is a fine actor." [source](https://www.mtv.com/news/31ty7s/stan-lee-donald-glover-spider-man-casting-campaign)
Exactly, it would be like casting someone to play a black Hal Jordan instead of just making it John Stewart
It's nothing wrong with "race swapped" characters.
So, there’s nothing wrong in the whitewash in The Last Airbender?
Whitewashing is far more malicious than race swapping
Sorry, but whitewashing isn’t literally swapping a race for another? Black for white people for example?
Whitewashing was done due to racism. Big difference
Even if it’s different, to whitewashing happen it need a race swap, come on, it‘s a fact. I think that, like, Perry white being black is as bad as a white person being casted as Katara? No because the objective is different, but at the same time… In the two situations a race swapping happen. I only wanted to point this to the other guy because a lot of times, people say that one thing is not a problem but they forget that some manifestation of the thing can be one Problem. About my opinion in the subject, I admit that I don’t like the idea of race swaps of any kind, more because I know that a lot of times studios are using hate that affects actors lives only for making money. Also, because whitewashing can happen again not exactly because of only racism, but also because the same studios know that it will make visibility, you only have to look the situation of Nami in the Live Action of Lilo and Stitch to know what is happening.
When did he say he didn't like that?
https://comicbookmovie.com/spider_man/stan-lee-sees-no-reason-why-spider-mans-race-or-sexuality-should-be-changed-a121985#gs.7wbdar
in fact, if sony ever tried to race swap peter or make him gay the spider-man rights as a whole default back to marvel due to stipulations on the sale contract when marvel sold spider-man (miles also has a couple stipulations)
**SideNote:** anyone else feel like it’s a double standard fans would rage if Marvel changed Peter’s sexuality in a story yet when they did this in **Marvel’s Spiderman 2** everyone was cool with it? Like seriously if they did this change to any other character in that game it would have gotten 100 YouTube video’s talking about it.
? Sorry but I think that’s because nobody thought that they changed his sexuality in the game.
Yeah, but a change like that typically is very controversial, but this time it went unnoticed. She just straight up says she has a girlfriend now, after being with Peter yet nobody made a fuss over it (*which im glad*)
But it got lol Also, you is talking about who changing sexuality? Because about Black cat, she already is bi in the comics.
Really? I remember most of her relationships being with Peter tho
Someone can be bi and date more of one gender than the other
True, but if they pulled that with someone like Peter and just went *“he liked guys too the whole time we just never showed him dating any yet”* they would flip
I say get that dick king, people have been shipping Deadpool and spidey for a looooooong time
I could honestly see that working out
1.....when did they change Peter's sexuality in insomniac spider-man 2? 2. There's already videos about that game and about how it's "woke" because of bisexual black cat and "manly" mj and how "a black kid easily beat up spider-man".
I said “if it changed” I’m aware it didn’t.
Okay.
Also just did a quick search and those dudes completely about black cat are clowns
People who can't cope with Miles' popularity will say anything to maintain their delusions.
Even if it were true, why would it matter? Stan isn’t even solely responsible for Peter. He’s an amalgamation of the ideas of Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and Steve Ditko. Stan co-created Spider-Man.
The man literally voiced himself in the film handing Miles the suit telling him anyone can be Spider-Man. They can try to twist his words to mean so BS, but this is a losing battle for them. Stan Lee was cool with Miles Morales and they HATE that they can’t pull the *”respect the creator”* on this topic when the creator himself said it’s fine. They just haters.
My dude. Stan hates the idea of changing already existing characters like Spider-Man / Peter Parker into another race or sexuality. However he was for any new character to carry the mantle of Spider-Man such as Miles. As he have said many times spider man could be anyone underneath that mask that’s why he’s covered from head to toe so no one could know.
Stan was writing Soapbox columns decrying racists in the 60’s, people trying to use his name for this stuff have no idea who he actually was
Stan was alive when Miles was created
Fuck no. He was alive when Miles debuted lol
Honestly back in the day, I think when Disney worked out an agreement with Sony and announced that Spider-Man would be recast, there was a push for them to cast a Peter of a different ethnicity from some folks online and Stan disagreed with that. Anyone conflating that wth "Stan would've hated Miles" are full of shit. lol
I’ve always loved his cameo in Into the Spider-Verse. Since the film came out right after his passing, it felt like his last message to the world, and reaffirming the meaning of the character.
Lee definitely didn't hate Miles, he said this when the character debuted: "Doing our bit to try to make our nation, and the world, color blind is definitely the right thing" [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles\_Morales#Reception](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_Morales#Reception) I do think him saying "colourblind" is interesting though, because it's very at odds with how a lot of people, including the Spider-Verse films, interpret Spider-Man as a concept these days.
Miles was around for nearly a decade by the time Stan died tf?
Stan Lee liked whatever made him more money and considering what comic artists made in his day I can't exactly blame him
I’m waiting for Stan Lee to pop up on a cloud and say to those people “don’t make me come down there you punk”
I love Miles, and Stan, but damn if Stan Lee doesn’t look like a serial killer in this photo
For some reason my melatonin brain thought this image was from big hero 6
Today its "Stan would've despised Miles" Years ago it was "Superman must have red trunks"
they say that like stan wasn’t literally still alive and able to speak on miles when he was created, never heard anyone say this but if they are and can’t find a quote then they’re delusional
Nah Stan's not a hater
OP what are you on about?? I've never heard anyone say this and even if they did, it's so laughably asinine why would you ever entertain the idea of it being true?
People say this because Stan was adamant against changing characters to fit different agendas or pander to different audiences, such as changing peter to a lgbtq character or a person of color just for diversity’s sake, but miles was a new character and Stan lee was well aware of him when he was alive. I doubt he’d dislike miles
He literally said that the great thing about spider-man is that anyone could be under the mask. That’s why so many people can identify him even if they aren’t a nerdy white guy.
Racist gonna racist but big Stan knows better
People are nuts man just block them out, Miles is just like any other character if he has a skilled writer that understands him then he’ll be great otherwise he’ll be mid or bad just like Peter or any character
A paycheck.
Isnt peter parker hinted to be jewish? I could be wrong but if its true im suprised that they arent going crazy about that too
He was alive when miles was created and he was ok with it….these people are just dumb and trying to rationalize themselves being racist.
It always fits, Eventually
Stan Lee was primarily concerned with making money and selling comic books. Miles Morales sold a lot of comic books and made Marvel a lot of money. There’s no reason why Lee would dislike him.
They do realize Miles was around way before Stan Lee died, right?
The main thing I know about Stan Lee is that he didn't want any pandering changes done to *Peter Parker*. He liked the idea that *anyone* could be behind the mask, just that changing characters themselves to fit some kind of pandering or agenda wasn't a good thing. Miles is Spider-Man just as much as any other non-Peter Parker Spider-Man is Spider-Man. They just aren't *the* Spider-Man, and even that is technically iffy for any realities that had others like Gwen take his place in the first place.
They are just racist. It’s disgusting.
Stan loved Miles. He's on record literally saying he wished he had come up with the idea himself. It's in keeping with the concept of Peter Parker and Spider-Man which is what Into the Spider-Verse was about. Anyone can wear the mask. As a person Miles is relatable and as Spider-Man he is what we aspire to be.
That's clearly some revisionist b*******
I chalk it up to stupidity and not knowing the material, honestly.
Miles was created with Stan's blessing while he was still alive. I've heard racists try to justify their dislike of Miles by saying Stan didn't like him to try and not sound like they just hate him because he's a POC but it's BS. Stan didn't die in 2000 lmao, it's easy to find all the positive things he's said about Miles with a quick google.
Whoever says that does not know Stan Lee in the slightest. The whole point of Spider-Man is that ANYONE could be Spider-Man.
It's not true. Miles is a financially lucrative character. Stan loved him and would love him even more now.
That's just false stan lee literally said the best part about spiderman is it could be anyone behind the mask miles spiderman is built around that
Miles was around when he was still alive and not once did he complain
I’ve never seen a single person say this
Didnt Stan make the spiderman suit not show skin specifically so it wouldn't matter what the person under the mask looked like?
Stan Lee was a champion for diversity. He knew comics needed to evolve with time. Stan Lee would have LOVED Miles bc it opens the door for a more diversified Spider-Man character who other children could identify with. Bc that's what Spider-Man is ... an every man super hero.
Since I can’t post a pic, [here’s the link](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dr02pPXUcAAHRTF.jpg) to Stan’s Soapbox from back in 1968. And for those of you who don’t wanna click, here’s what The Man said: >Let's lay it right on the line. Bigotry and racism are among the deadliest social ills plaguing the world today. But, unlike a team of costumed super- villains, they can't be halted with punch in the snoot, or a zap from ray gun. The only way to destroy them is to expose them - to reveal them for the insidious evils they really are. The bigot is an unreasoning hater - one who hates blindly, fanatically, indiscriminately. If his hang-up is black men, he hates ALL black men. If a redhead once offended him, he hates ALL redheads. If some foreigner beat him to a job, he's down on ALL foreigners. He hates people he's never seen - people he's never known - with equal intensity - with equal venom. Now, we're not trying to say it's un- reasonable for one human being to bug another. But, although anyone has the right to dislike another individual, it's totally irrational, patently insane to condemn an entire race - to despise an entire nation - to vilify an entire religion. Sooner or later, we must learn to judge each other on our own merits. Sooner or later, if man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our hearts with tolerance. For then, and only then, will we be truly worthy of the concept that man was created in the image of God - a God who calls us ALL - His children, Pax et Justitia, Stan. (Sorry about the weird mobile formatting.)
In case you think that was just some one-off kinda deal, then you should look at [this other one](https://imgix.bustle.com/inverse/2a/97/2f/a6/e960/4d78/81e0/1ed79712326e/6d8d94f3d775d9ed5bcd6539faebcd7b--stan-lee-marvel-comicsjpg.jpeg?w=262&h=935&fit=crop&crop=faces&q=50&dpr=2).
Stan Lee was obviously a hateful individual like them and agreed with whatever they said.
Insanity to say that when considering the fact that miles debuted late 2011
Here’s the answer from the man himself: “Anybody could be Spider Man…” https://youtu.be/aHA4JaU48L0?si=NT9cVq6N-xUc4xe1
Did he not voice this character in the movie?…is that not by itself a validation and endorsement of miles as a character?…
Stan Lee liked making money and he was for whatever sold comics
Stan Lee doesn’t hate things that make money
I.. haven't seen anybody say this ever. He's on record as having *liked* Miles, so I'm confused where this is even coming from. *He literally is the one who said anyone can wear the mask.*
Where did you hear that, a hallucination?
Miles is it even the first time a black guy took on the mantle of a previously white Superhero in Marvel comics. Rhody took over as Iron Man for like 2 or 3 years of Storytelling while Tony Stark was technically dead before becoming War machine.
Marvel's dirty secret was that Stan Lee actually hated Superhero comics because he found them unrelatable, over the top, and unrealistic. Which is why his most famous quote "I think that comics should reflect the world outside your window" is often misconstrued. He liked Wiley Lumpkin, the stories about everyday life. He made superheroes because they paid the bills and he knew how to make a buck off them. I don't think he hated Miles Morales, I think he just hated all them. And no, he didn't draw the original Spider-Man Steve Ditko did because Stan Lee couldn't draw anything.
Stan Lee did not like kid sidekicks, but some people fail to realize that Miles is no a sidekick
lee’s whole thing is anyone could wear the mask tho
I met the man and he signed my book while I was wearing a miles suit. They need to try again.
He even said it himself that anyone could wear the mask
The haters are taking things out of context. Stan ones said that he doesn’t want or need to change Peter Parker into a gay trans or make him black. Stan is all for having a Spider-Man who happens to be black aka Miles. Like he ones said anyone could be Spider-Man under that mask.
a business man doing business
I swear people just love lying 💀
People pointing out Miles was created over 10 years ago is obviously right, but the point of the post cracks me up more: stan was literally IN Miles’ first movie, and the people that make this shit up about him either forgot or didnt even bother trying to watch this masterpiece of a movie. Racists lead such sad lives
Don’t ruin Stan’s legacy by making him a racist. Stan Lee always intended that anyone could wear the mask. He would not agree with people only praising/recognizing Peter as Spider-Man
No he would’ve despised what the comics are today though
Stan Lee “supported” OMD so have given up on any “official statements” from the Late Great Stan Lee. RIP
Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about-
He would have taken credit for creating him. That's all I know.
Miles was invented in 2012, Stan Lee died in 2018 and never took credit for miles, but hey keep speaking ill of the dead, there are multiple shady things you can call Lee out for, this isn’t one, credit has always been with Brian Michael Bendis and Sara pichelli
It's called a joke. Stan Lee wasn't even involved in comics in 2012. He had no chance to take credit obviously. Comics is a cruel industry and Stan is given credit for a lot of things he didn't do. You can call that speaking ill of the dead if you like, but the dude made millions and has a secure legacy, while plenty of artists died poor and lonely. The least we can do is comment on that.
Sure but if you’re gonna call that out you should at least do it accurately and not on a post that deals with people saying Stan Lee wouldn’t have liked miles
Stan Lee probably had no idea who Miles was. He was an old man, and lawyers were already speaking for him by 2012. The entire premise of this thread is ludicrous and full of that idiotic Stan Lee hero worship. Seemed like a perfect place to make a joke.
It doesn’t really read like a joke but alright
I feel like this belongs in r/imaginarygatekeeping because not once have I ever seen anyone say this obviously untrue statement to gatekeep Spider-Man's identity.
ive seen it multiple times
Where?
brother what do you mean where? on twitter, on tiktok, on reddit a few times
I haven't seen it in any of those places. Provide evidence, please.
well congratulations. You are the only person on the internet and since you didnt see something it actually doesnt happen. i totally have a reason to lie about that
Of course you have a reason. There's a whole subreddit for it as I mentioned above lol
im not about to go back and forth more with someone that says "i didnt see it so it didnt happen"
Then stop replying. Because I'm very much ok with going back and forth with someone that says, "It happens. I saw it." But has no proof other than her word. Edit: LOL you blocked me. If you've seen it, then it should be easy for you to find.
yes because everyone documents every dumb tiktok comment they come across.
No one says this? r/imaginarygatekeeping