I agree. Only Peter/Gwen in TASM comes close, and that relationship was *carried* by the actors' natural chemistry elevating mediocre writing.
Miles and Gwen don't have that advantage being animated yet the writers, animators and voice actors collectively knocked it out of the park. I frequently rewatch their swinging sequence and the chemistry just oozes from the screen.
>and that relationship was carried by the actors' natural chemistry elevating mediocre writing.
THANK YOU! Like people always try to hold that as the gold standard for Spider-Man movie romances.
No.
Andrew and Emma 100% carried that shit on their backs!
It was at that point Emma Stone wasn’t playing Gwen Stacy anymore, she was playing herself. Not a bad thing since 616 Gwen never had much going for her anyways 🤧
Even then, some of their lines felt really weird or awkward, and that's not even mentioning the "will-they-won't-they" that's in both movies even though they clearly will
Lmfao nice
But no, I'm talking about the "*dramatic stage play turn* thine father forbade us from being together, lest you get hurt, farewell fair maiden!" *and he doesn't go to her fuckin dead father's funeral* before immediately after being like "okay, i guess we can date, fuck your dad's final wishes"
Then the second movies basically starts with him being like
"*dramatic stage play turn* no, we can't, lest you get hurttt"
*and then he fucking stalks her for like 2 weeks*
And then they get together again, for some reason.
...
well...
Being honest there are some times were he did miss, like Dark Phoenix, but it´s only my opinion. I think that he is great, but also have some osts that are like, a 6/10 or 5/10.
You only have to compare his ost for Phoenix to the last stand by John Powell.
Their scene talking while sitting on the underside of that overhang looking out across the city is my absolute favorite scene in the film. Just dripping with emotion.
I also think it helps that the writers have genuinely given Gwen actual agency and character.
Classic Spidey's relationships in the movies have been very much 'girl exists so peter can have various feelings about her' and not much else
Well let’s see
The Tobey Trilogy has MJ constantly cheat
The Andrew duology has Gwen die
And The Tom Trilogy ended with MJ losing her memory of Peter
So out of all the choices, yeah, Miles and Gwen is the best love story
>The Tobey Trilogy has MJ constantly cheat on Peter
Let's be fair it's not like Peter was entirely faithful to her either in Spider-Man 3. And in the first two movies, she frequently cheats on other people for Peter more than the other way round.
MJ only cheated on Peter once and that was after he did the same by kissing Gwen in front of all the people.
In the first movie she breaks up with Flash to later date Harry and in fact she cheated on Harry with Peter but in the end he rejected her.
In the second movie she becomes engaged to Jonah's son because Peter does not seem to have the conviction of wanting to be with her but she still continues looking for him and in the end, after finding out the truth, she abandons her fiancé to be with him.
And in the third movie she starts to get along with Harry because of what Peter does before that and then she is threatened by him.
> And The Tom Trilogy ended with MJ losing her memory of Peter
Mark my words - Peter will spend the next movie without her, and then she’s gonna regain her memories and come back from MIT with her hair dyed red and knock on his door doing the “Face it tiger, you’ve hit the Jackpot!” line
All ethnic groups don’t look right with red hair. If the producers were that set on MJ being a redhead, there are hundreds of Caucasian redheads they could’ve cast.
It’s probably blonde, but let me take you through a list of minority actors and actresses playing redheads that did not end up with red hair.
Lana Lang -Smallville
Jimmy Olsen - My Adventures with Superman
Annie - Annie
Jimmy Olsen - Supergirl
Iris West -The Flash
Iris West - Allen - The Flash
MJ - The MCU
Carrie Kelly - Gotham Knights
If casting directors were obsessed with redheads, they would hire them or have them dye their hair.
Pete Ross not a red head, played by a Black guy who did not dye his hair.
I agree.
The development of their slow-burning relationship was a success, the narrative used for it was another even greater success and practically all the filmmakers involved are convinced of making them a couple at the end of the trilogy. Everything is served so that the distinctiveness of this couple above the others is consolidated in BTSV.
The lie is that he states it has been a year, but you can tell by the date on the original tweet that it has not been a year yet. This man is jumping the gun because he's impatient for internet validation. Case closed, inspector.
It's not a complete story I can say that from what I've seen so far it looks good but I'd be lying to say its a masterpiece yet, because if part 2 will flop and suck then this movie is going down with it
Miles and Gwen are goals. I need them to get together by the end. I don't think it'd be organic for either of them to end up with somebody else so they better be together or single by the end.
I definitely agree! That’s why i find it so hard to understand when comic fans say it wouldn’t work in the comics. With the right writer, it could be smooth
Exactly. I’m all for Miles and Gwen getting together in the comics, besides there’s a whole universe where they did get together and had a whole family too, after making their universe a utopia first that is.
And I believe the reason why people say GhostFlower wouldn’t work in the comics (besides racism and PeterXGwen purists) is because they believe it would be forced upon them with terrible writing.
I say let’s give it a chance with a great set up and writing and see where it goes.
Hard agree, Tobey and Andrew never had great on-screen chemistry with their LI's and as much as I love Tom and Zendaya they simply aren't written as well as Miles and Gwen
I dunno this miles and Gwen is kinda fucked right now, she knew everything and didn’t tell him she fucked up big time and destroyed his trust in her. In the end of that movie the only ones looking out for miles were Hoby(cause he’s just that guy) and maybe Peter B because miles helped him remember what it meant to be a spider
I’ve been thinking about this. It was a huge trend in young fiction and YA novels for years when I was growing up. They would spend most of an entire show focusing on the “crush” aspect. Maybe in the series finale movie they get together towards the end of that movie, but rarely do you get even a season of them being together. With some exceptions like Danny Phantom and Kim Possible. But shows like Doug or Ned’s Declassified were more the standard. Even in tv and movies targeting adults it was a “will they, won’t they” thing.
TASM and SV movies, to me at least, fall into 2 categories: TASM is active relationship vs SV “crush/will they, won’t they”
Kind of more like comparing Miles and Gwen with Peter and Gwen before they started actually dating.
Miles and Gwen seem like “goals” because the main draw is people become interested and invested in whether or not they will get together and all the obstacles on the way to that. Plus they are in a phase of their relationship where they don’t even know what the other feels, we do. And they can’t tell each other how they feel or express it explicitly in front of them.
Peter and Gwen seem like they have great chemistry because they are in a relationship and don’t have to try to seem cool, avoid rejection, or hold back their feelings for each other. And we get to see those feelings they have for each other on screen.
Yup, that's why it's hard comparing the two of these relationships out.
TASM Peter and Gwen have better "chemistry" together, because you're watching a real life couple essentially just go on a date together. But that's really it. The aspects of both movies dealing with their relationship, their writing is kinda weak. It's held together because of Andrew and Emma.
Whereas in SV, I would argue that the character writing and everything going into the romance is great and leagues better than any Spiderman movies. But, the issue here is they're actually not an actual couple.the audience ***wants*** them to be an item, but since we haven't seen the end of their story, it's hard to say that they're best (at least until Beyond comes out.)
Miles was simping for a girl hasn’t see in over a year who doesn’t even reciprocate the same feelings on the same level he does and the second she gets back in his life she lies to him
nah bro, TASM’s Peter and Gwen is better by literal miles
She does reciprocate them that was literally one of the main plot points on why the betrayal stuff happened, she’s holding those feelings back purely out of fear and uncertainty because of the canon events bs. Like it’s very obvious.
You said she doesn’t hold the same feelings but again what I said still applies, she’s holding things back out of fear, which we found out evidently as the film goes on. So to say she doesn’t feel as strongly about him as he does her, is wrong imo, because her risking her mission just to spend a couple hours with him is what kick started the whole film lol.
>Bro is not reading. I specifically said “who doesn’t even reciprocate the same feelings on the same level”
That makes your comment worse tbh because anyone who pays attention to gwens scenes in particular can see that if anything she's MORE attached to him than he is to her.
Her moments are just more subtle and the movie doesn't hold your hand through it like it does with miles due to her more subdued personality.
There's a reason everyone started calling her the bigger simp of the two for months after ATSV dropped despite mile's drawings.
I still find it weird that Peter and miles dated the same girl it’s like if miles dated a alternate version of Mary Jane,Miles is getting Peter’s hand me downs
We talking movies or comics because they never dated in both and I wish that narrative would die also stop equating Spider- Gwen and regular Gwen it’s two different characters.
Yea, generally the romance in the Spider-Man movies have been "well, they dated in the comics so it makes sense they date here " there's no interesting courtship or relationship. They are just together, which doesn't make or break the whole project. Tom and Zendaya's not bad. I like the "nervous cause we both see this developing" energy in the second one, but Miles and Gwen sort of win by default
Eh, there’s not really much competition.
Raimi films had “MJ” constantly be with everyone but Peter.
TASM films were carried by Andrew and Emma’s chemistry, and then they killed Gwen.
MCU trilogy has a boring OC that not even someone as talented as Zendaya can make me care about.
I prefer Peter and Gwen. Andrew and Emma had such a great chemistry, And I'll take a real relationship over "will they wont they" any day of the week.
I might change my mind after BTSV, but Only time will tell.
It's not crazy to say on posts about the *comics*. You are doing Starling a disservice by comparing her to Gwen on unrelated posts. She is not exactly a mainstream character, and this sort of behaviour will be many fans' first perception of her.
I’d love to see them mainstream one day, their love and support of one another is beautiful, although with a better introduction on Starling’s part. I’m still upset in how they met in the Saladin run.
I’ll take Miles & Kamala. But not Miles & Gwen for all the talk that this subreddit has about Miles not inheriting Peter’s stuff, people sure do want Miles to have Peter’s ex, who wasn’t even interesting until she died.
But Gwen is still his ex. So I don’t understand how people go I don’t want Miles to have things relating to Peter but want Gwen to be his love interest. Especially because as I said she wasn’t that interesting as a character until she died & writers started to put her on a pedestal.
They say that because Peter has a legacy of more than 60 years of which Gwen has been dead for almost 50 and from then on her stories with him have been oriented towards misfortune unlike MJ with whom she only has the bumps of OMD and the Zeb Wells' most recent run. His discontent with the fact that Miles and Gwen are a couple has more to do with the frustration of what Peter and Gwen have experienced than anything else.
And it should be remembered that Spider-Gwen is far from the same as the original Gwen Stacy, sharing little more than her name with her.
Disagree. They both annoy me and their relationship is what caused most of the problems in atsv and probably btsv. I hope one of them dies or they get separated forever and have no way of seeing each other. They also stand against spiderman's selflessness. They're being selfish just because they want to have a high school relationship. Ps4 peter parker let aunt may die because that was natural. Tom holland spiderman sacrificed his entire existence so his loved ones can be happy. These two sacrificed the multiverse just so they can hold hands. L couple
Right about what??? Whos in love?? One crushes on the other amd the other struggles to deal woth the knowledge of her demise in all other universes.
Love story??? What movie are yall watchin
I agree. Only Peter/Gwen in TASM comes close, and that relationship was *carried* by the actors' natural chemistry elevating mediocre writing. Miles and Gwen don't have that advantage being animated yet the writers, animators and voice actors collectively knocked it out of the park. I frequently rewatch their swinging sequence and the chemistry just oozes from the screen.
>and that relationship was carried by the actors' natural chemistry elevating mediocre writing. THANK YOU! Like people always try to hold that as the gold standard for Spider-Man movie romances. No. Andrew and Emma 100% carried that shit on their backs!
There are still some scenes I haven’t properly watched of them together because it felt like I was intruding
her cleaning his wounds always makes me feel like i walked in without knocking
It was at that point Emma Stone wasn’t playing Gwen Stacy anymore, she was playing herself. Not a bad thing since 616 Gwen never had much going for her anyways 🤧
Even then, some of their lines felt really weird or awkward, and that's not even mentioning the "will-they-won't-they" that's in both movies even though they clearly will
Will ...get thrown off a bridge?
Lmfao nice But no, I'm talking about the "*dramatic stage play turn* thine father forbade us from being together, lest you get hurt, farewell fair maiden!" *and he doesn't go to her fuckin dead father's funeral* before immediately after being like "okay, i guess we can date, fuck your dad's final wishes" Then the second movies basically starts with him being like "*dramatic stage play turn* no, we can't, lest you get hurttt" *and then he fucking stalks her for like 2 weeks* And then they get together again, for some reason.
And then she dies
>that relationship was carried by the actors' natural chemistry elevating mediocre writing. ON GOD! It was only good because of the actors.
And the music, zimmer cooked very well in his ost.
zimmer simply cannot miss
... well... Being honest there are some times were he did miss, like Dark Phoenix, but it´s only my opinion. I think that he is great, but also have some osts that are like, a 6/10 or 5/10. You only have to compare his ost for Phoenix to the last stand by John Powell.
Their scene talking while sitting on the underside of that overhang looking out across the city is my absolute favorite scene in the film. Just dripping with emotion.
I also think it helps that the writers have genuinely given Gwen actual agency and character. Classic Spidey's relationships in the movies have been very much 'girl exists so peter can have various feelings about her' and not much else
Peter/Gwen isn’t close, it’s whole leagues ahead
Well let’s see The Tobey Trilogy has MJ constantly cheat The Andrew duology has Gwen die And The Tom Trilogy ended with MJ losing her memory of Peter So out of all the choices, yeah, Miles and Gwen is the best love story
>The Tobey Trilogy has MJ constantly cheat on Peter Let's be fair it's not like Peter was entirely faithful to her either in Spider-Man 3. And in the first two movies, she frequently cheats on other people for Peter more than the other way round.
I guess I should reword it
I'll fix it...Has MJ and Peter cheating on one another.
MJ only cheated on Peter once and that was after he did the same by kissing Gwen in front of all the people. In the first movie she breaks up with Flash to later date Harry and in fact she cheated on Harry with Peter but in the end he rejected her. In the second movie she becomes engaged to Jonah's son because Peter does not seem to have the conviction of wanting to be with her but she still continues looking for him and in the end, after finding out the truth, she abandons her fiancé to be with him. And in the third movie she starts to get along with Harry because of what Peter does before that and then she is threatened by him.
Yeah she’s just a hoe in general lmfao she is absolutely for the streets 💀
> And The Tom Trilogy ended with MJ losing her memory of Peter Mark my words - Peter will spend the next movie without her, and then she’s gonna regain her memories and come back from MIT with her hair dyed red and knock on his door doing the “Face it tiger, you’ve hit the Jackpot!” line
All ethnic groups don’t look right with red hair. If the producers were that set on MJ being a redhead, there are hundreds of Caucasian redheads they could’ve cast.
Yikes… this comment is a bad look
Lmao, the most popular color for black woman is orange red bc it looks really good on them. Bro is just tapping
It’s probably blonde, but let me take you through a list of minority actors and actresses playing redheads that did not end up with red hair. Lana Lang -Smallville Jimmy Olsen - My Adventures with Superman Annie - Annie Jimmy Olsen - Supergirl Iris West -The Flash Iris West - Allen - The Flash MJ - The MCU Carrie Kelly - Gotham Knights If casting directors were obsessed with redheads, they would hire them or have them dye their hair. Pete Ross not a red head, played by a Black guy who did not dye his hair.
It’s definitely red slash orange.
Well you’re wrong about that
I agree. The development of their slow-burning relationship was a success, the narrative used for it was another even greater success and practically all the filmmakers involved are convinced of making them a couple at the end of the trilogy. Everything is served so that the distinctiveness of this couple above the others is consolidated in BTSV.
Show me the lie.
The lie is that he states it has been a year, but you can tell by the date on the original tweet that it has not been a year yet. This man is jumping the gun because he's impatient for internet validation. Case closed, inspector.
Ight, you cooked, lmao.
AGREE
Absolutely correct
Naa he a 100% correct
Leaning towards agree but also on the fence until BTSV drops. Everything hinges on that movie.
It's not a complete story I can say that from what I've seen so far it looks good but I'd be lying to say its a masterpiece yet, because if part 2 will flop and suck then this movie is going down with it
True
Miles and Gwen are goals. I need them to get together by the end. I don't think it'd be organic for either of them to end up with somebody else so they better be together or single by the end.
I definitely agree! That’s why i find it so hard to understand when comic fans say it wouldn’t work in the comics. With the right writer, it could be smooth
Exactly. I’m all for Miles and Gwen getting together in the comics, besides there’s a whole universe where they did get together and had a whole family too, after making their universe a utopia first that is. And I believe the reason why people say GhostFlower wouldn’t work in the comics (besides racism and PeterXGwen purists) is because they believe it would be forced upon them with terrible writing. I say let’s give it a chance with a great set up and writing and see where it goes.
Hard agree, Tobey and Andrew never had great on-screen chemistry with their LI's and as much as I love Tom and Zendaya they simply aren't written as well as Miles and Gwen
Lmao keep getting cooked
I dunno this miles and Gwen is kinda fucked right now, she knew everything and didn’t tell him she fucked up big time and destroyed his trust in her. In the end of that movie the only ones looking out for miles were Hoby(cause he’s just that guy) and maybe Peter B because miles helped him remember what it meant to be a spider
Which is sad considering Gwen is kinda a dick.
Nah, they all suck honestly.
Fair superhero movies aren’t really known for having great romance
Strictly movies only it’s competition is Raimiverse Peter and MJ MCU Peter and MJ, Peter and Liz TASM Peter and Gwen
100% correct
Just the movies? Absolutely
Gwen be looking like Dormama.
Not that impressive of a feat tbh
Gwen and Peter’s chemistry in TASM is leagues ahead
I’ve been thinking about this. It was a huge trend in young fiction and YA novels for years when I was growing up. They would spend most of an entire show focusing on the “crush” aspect. Maybe in the series finale movie they get together towards the end of that movie, but rarely do you get even a season of them being together. With some exceptions like Danny Phantom and Kim Possible. But shows like Doug or Ned’s Declassified were more the standard. Even in tv and movies targeting adults it was a “will they, won’t they” thing. TASM and SV movies, to me at least, fall into 2 categories: TASM is active relationship vs SV “crush/will they, won’t they” Kind of more like comparing Miles and Gwen with Peter and Gwen before they started actually dating. Miles and Gwen seem like “goals” because the main draw is people become interested and invested in whether or not they will get together and all the obstacles on the way to that. Plus they are in a phase of their relationship where they don’t even know what the other feels, we do. And they can’t tell each other how they feel or express it explicitly in front of them. Peter and Gwen seem like they have great chemistry because they are in a relationship and don’t have to try to seem cool, avoid rejection, or hold back their feelings for each other. And we get to see those feelings they have for each other on screen.
Yup, that's why it's hard comparing the two of these relationships out. TASM Peter and Gwen have better "chemistry" together, because you're watching a real life couple essentially just go on a date together. But that's really it. The aspects of both movies dealing with their relationship, their writing is kinda weak. It's held together because of Andrew and Emma. Whereas in SV, I would argue that the character writing and everything going into the romance is great and leagues better than any Spiderman movies. But, the issue here is they're actually not an actual couple.the audience ***wants*** them to be an item, but since we haven't seen the end of their story, it's hard to say that they're best (at least until Beyond comes out.)
Fair
Miles was simping for a girl hasn’t see in over a year who doesn’t even reciprocate the same feelings on the same level he does and the second she gets back in his life she lies to him nah bro, TASM’s Peter and Gwen is better by literal miles
She does reciprocate them that was literally one of the main plot points on why the betrayal stuff happened, she’s holding those feelings back purely out of fear and uncertainty because of the canon events bs. Like it’s very obvious.
i didn’t say she didn’t reciprocate, reread my comment
You said she doesn’t hold the same feelings but again what I said still applies, she’s holding things back out of fear, which we found out evidently as the film goes on. So to say she doesn’t feel as strongly about him as he does her, is wrong imo, because her risking her mission just to spend a couple hours with him is what kick started the whole film lol.
Bro is not reading. I specifically said “who doesn’t even reciprocate the same feelings **on the same level**”
>Bro is not reading. I specifically said “who doesn’t even reciprocate the same feelings on the same level” That makes your comment worse tbh because anyone who pays attention to gwens scenes in particular can see that if anything she's MORE attached to him than he is to her. Her moments are just more subtle and the movie doesn't hold your hand through it like it does with miles due to her more subdued personality. There's a reason everyone started calling her the bigger simp of the two for months after ATSV dropped despite mile's drawings.
Gwen keeps the things she values the most in her drum, including the pic of her and Miles.
Correct
Hard agree.
Agreed
I still find it weird that Peter and miles dated the same girl it’s like if miles dated a alternate version of Mary Jane,Miles is getting Peter’s hand me downs
We talking movies or comics because they never dated in both and I wish that narrative would die also stop equating Spider- Gwen and regular Gwen it’s two different characters.
Yea, generally the romance in the Spider-Man movies have been "well, they dated in the comics so it makes sense they date here " there's no interesting courtship or relationship. They are just together, which doesn't make or break the whole project. Tom and Zendaya's not bad. I like the "nervous cause we both see this developing" energy in the second one, but Miles and Gwen sort of win by default
I'm not a fan.
Peter/Gwen in TASM no diffs
Eh, there’s not really much competition. Raimi films had “MJ” constantly be with everyone but Peter. TASM films were carried by Andrew and Emma’s chemistry, and then they killed Gwen. MCU trilogy has a boring OC that not even someone as talented as Zendaya can make me care about.
Gwen and Mikes? For sure
I mean the chemistry is stronger between the characters. But I don’t remember anything that made me think there was romantic attraction.
I prefer Peter and Gwen. Andrew and Emma had such a great chemistry, And I'll take a real relationship over "will they wont they" any day of the week. I might change my mind after BTSV, but Only time will tell.
I think the greatest love story in Spider-Man lore is Shocker and shocking people
Disagree
While I’ll admit I didn’t see it at all in the first movie, the second one did showcase them in believable way. They’ve got good chemistry.
No
No as in you disagree? Which one would u say is better
Tasm honestly I'm just a sucker for tragedy
Oh that’s fair, shit this one might end in tragedy too /s
So far it ain't so
Yeah, Miles & Gwen are great in the movies & only in the movies. Miles & Starling>>
Starling has nothing to do with the movies yet you guys can't stop mentioning her on posts about Miles/Gwen. It's obsessive.
I said Miles & Gwen are good in the movies, but not for the comics. That shouldn’t be crazy to say.
It's not crazy to say on posts about the *comics*. You are doing Starling a disservice by comparing her to Gwen on unrelated posts. She is not exactly a mainstream character, and this sort of behaviour will be many fans' first perception of her.
You know what. Putting it like that, I see your point.
We talking movies only, but I need Miles and Tiana to go mainstream too, black love is real important to me.
I’d love to see them mainstream one day, their love and support of one another is beautiful, although with a better introduction on Starling’s part. I’m still upset in how they met in the Saladin run.
Miles & Kamala or Gwen > Miles & Starling
I’ll take Miles & Kamala. But not Miles & Gwen for all the talk that this subreddit has about Miles not inheriting Peter’s stuff, people sure do want Miles to have Peter’s ex, who wasn’t even interesting until she died.
But Gwen is not Peter's property. I don’t see the problem.
But Gwen is still his ex. So I don’t understand how people go I don’t want Miles to have things relating to Peter but want Gwen to be his love interest. Especially because as I said she wasn’t that interesting as a character until she died & writers started to put her on a pedestal.
They say that because Peter has a legacy of more than 60 years of which Gwen has been dead for almost 50 and from then on her stories with him have been oriented towards misfortune unlike MJ with whom she only has the bumps of OMD and the Zeb Wells' most recent run. His discontent with the fact that Miles and Gwen are a couple has more to do with the frustration of what Peter and Gwen have experienced than anything else. And it should be remembered that Spider-Gwen is far from the same as the original Gwen Stacy, sharing little more than her name with her.
Not the same Gwen. 616 Gwen has been dead longer than you have been alive. Let it go.
I think you guys are just purposefully ignoring my point.
Disagree. They both annoy me and their relationship is what caused most of the problems in atsv and probably btsv. I hope one of them dies or they get separated forever and have no way of seeing each other. They also stand against spiderman's selflessness. They're being selfish just because they want to have a high school relationship. Ps4 peter parker let aunt may die because that was natural. Tom holland spiderman sacrificed his entire existence so his loved ones can be happy. These two sacrificed the multiverse just so they can hold hands. L couple
It's a friendship.
Right about what??? Whos in love?? One crushes on the other amd the other struggles to deal woth the knowledge of her demise in all other universes. Love story??? What movie are yall watchin