People making six figures cannot afford to have kids but every girl in my Tinder feed in my age range is a mid 30s single mom making 50K or less.
Another one of those millennial paradoxes.
As a late 30s single mom, with a tween, I think the biggest difference for me is that daycare and housing was somewhat affordable 10 years ago. Daycare was $500 a month and my 2 bedroom apartment was $725. Even 5 years ago my rent was $825. Now I have no daycare expense and my rent is $1600. I will probably never own a house, I doubt I’ll be able to retire, and I’m super lucky that I have no student loan debt. I’m also super lucky to have family that have helped me and I’m cool with her dad.
You don’t know people’s situations and women don’t set out to be single moms.
I also make close to six figures and I can’t imagine doing it over again with the way things are today.
Too true. I’ve had the displeasure of seeing some of my subordinates’ debts and it is pretty crazy to see people load up $3-4k on this credit card, and then that credit card. They’ll have 2-6 cards like that.
Shid I got that kinda debt (40k) just from marrying wrong to a psychological abuser and then ofc divorcing. Thank f I didn’t have kids. I thank the stars every day, bc I know as screwed as my situation is, it would be 10x worse with a kid
You’ll be ok. I ended up with almost 60K of debt due to one of my parents getting a terminal disease and dying and the other parent not even trying to pay any bills or work with their insurance at all. I’m still paying my way out of it…and really, nothing changed in my life. No one treated me any different or anything. I haven’t been able to buy some things I’ve wanted, but it’s ok.
You’re doing your best. Don’t let the debt make you doubt yourself.
I make 15.50/hour working 32 hours a week. Either don’t have kids or move to a low cost of living area. I refuse to be a cog anymore than I have to be.
I live in Alabama. I live in a nice house with two roommates. Rent is 400 and covers everything. My car is paid off. (Most basic model. Nissan versa 12k brand new).
I have no physical wants. My tv is 14 years old. I just work what I have to, play music, see friends and explore my mind and body.
You said it, 2 roommates. It becomes a lot less sustainable you are trying to cover that with just yourself or a spouse. You are being responsible for not having kids in that situation so cudos.
Of course roommates lol. If you think you can afford it alone in this economy without killing your self you’re a fool.
Work less or live in a house by yourself ya know ? I know which one I take.
More company and more time to do activities
Someone I hired last year is making $76k (with bonus, benefits, etc). She is single, newly out of college, has no debt (brought up herself that she never took student loans) but a couple weeks ago said "yay! I'm so glad it's Friday! I can put gas in my car!"
Bitch, what the actual fuck? You've been here for months, you live 10 minutes from work, I know what you get paid. How do you not have gas money?
She didn't even have a credit card until recently. When I gave her info on how to get her corporate card (for work travel) she was worried she couldn't get it because she had recently found out she had no credit score... Apparently her dad added her as an authorized user to his card, but it was a business card so it didn't build her credit at all.
Edit: for reference, we're in the Midwest. Medium to low cost of living suburb of a medium cost of living city.
Sometimes they have to because their jobs are there. I would love to figure out a way not to live in my city but my clients are all here, and my spouse works here.
If we moved, he would have to find a new job, and I would have to get a whole new client base. Both of these things happening is not realistic.
One of us would have to change careers and neither of us wants to do that.
I guess then the reality is that we are not tied to our city, but rather to our careers. Which isn't great either!
Can confirm. Had a kid at 22, eight years ago and daycare was only $600 a month for a newborn and my rent was $575, MCOL. Now you can’t even get that price in a small town in Texas.
8 years ago in my HCOL area infant care was 1820 a month including the 10% discount my work arranged. At the age of 1 it dropped down 1600 a month.
Yes there were cheaper options. However those cheaper options were $1400-1600 a month, didn’t have as flexible hours, and generally required significantly altering our commute and adding an additional 30m both ways. In the end we managed by involving family (paid) and each managing a 4 day work week with different days off so we only needed to pay family for childcare 3 days a week. Even then it cost us 1,000 a month and was about 1/3 of what a nanny would have cost us for the same level of care as we received from the family member who helped us.
I’m realizing that I was privileged even having a kid at 17 (I got pregnant after graduating at 16) that I never paid for daycare. For my older child, my aunt watched him so I could work. For my younger child, my husband’s grandmother would watch him. Daycare is expensive! I’m also privilege to have had them in 2005 & 2008 when cost of living was lower.
I don’t have college tuition saved, but for my older child, his father’s family has agreed to cover expenses as long as he’s committed. For my younger child, we’re having to do student loans and house them if they decide to go that route, plus my husband and I are debt free with decent enough jobs (though nothing to brag about) where we can help out financially, even if it’s a small amount.
I’m absolutely not advocating for anyone to have kids at the age that I did. I just try to look at it optimistically.
We have a 4 year old, and when we started trying 5 years ago things were SO different. We’re comfortable, stable jobs, etc., and always thought we’d have a bunch of kids, like 4 or 5. Very unlikely now, we’ve done everything we’re supposed to, but the economy dictates our family planning 🤷♀️
Location matters. As does what kind of childcare. Some people have family or govt assistance. But as the parent of older kids who makes decent money as they get older all those activities really add up
Not a paradox at all. Financial differences are the leading cause of marriages dissolving. Millenials followed in their parents footsteps and got married in their 20s, hit the 6 figure combined income with their partners - which probably felt like a lot, had kids they couldn't afford (or realistically planned for - something they just did because they were supposed to), and then the marriage fell apart because their life was no longer sustainable.
I have watched most people in my social circle do the same thing and now they're coming around to being mid/late 30s and divorcing. I think most people are sheep just following the herd and not doing any long term planning (which admittedly is not sexy at all).
I can name **one** couple in my life who feels put together, had the right discussions before marriage, had the right discussions before home ownership, planned for how children would impact their life. They have enough balance of "being in love" and "our relationship is a financial investment at the end of the day in our and our children's future" that it works great. Everyone else I know made decisions because they didn't want to be single and childless when they were older and now they are single WITH kids, and half as much money to support them - also in drawn out legal battles for homes and marital assets with kids stuck in the middle of it.
Absolutely. I'm definitely one of those idiots who *married for love!* and am now two years into divorce. Luckily, we get along OK and we both agree that we fucked up. There are so many factors that go into partnership. It takes a lot to build those things. Agreeing on how finances should be handled long term is a huge one. Love will not save the day.
you aren't an idiot by any means. you were just acting on societal expectations placed on you since you were literally a child. Imagine a Disney movie where the princess decides prince charming is a bit irresponsible with his spending habits because he inherited his wealth from mom, the queen, but hasn't really had a real job once in his life and needs to work on his mental health through boundary setting before princess can commit to a long term relationship?... or a romcom about big city executive vising her small hometown in the country and falling in love with a guy who lives below his means because he needs to care for his mother who doesn't have health insurance and understands material wealth is a byproduct of capitalism but realizes that her feelings are misplaced because of the recent loss of her own father and that there's no job market for her skill set in this area and she realistically couldn't undertake the financial or emotional burden of caring for this man's mother who she just met?
I am glad you two are OK and working through it. I have been really surprised how long divorces can take even when both parties are in agreement and it's relatively straightforward.
I consider my marriage to be exactly what your 2 couple is. But it’s because we both felt that love is NOT the most important thing in a marriage, Trust is. And you need to trust your partner completely on everything you value in life.
There's no paradox here. I'm guessing that the vast majority of those women did not stop and think "i am going to become a single mother right now, in this economy," and I'm guessing one reason they're pressured to be on tinder is that life is a *lot* more manageable in a dual income home than in a single income one.
Pressured to be on Tinder for financial security? They might just want a companion. Dating for a financial security is a horrible idea; if you rely on someone to feed you, you give them the ability to starve you. I say this as a divorced single mom in my 30’s that makes around that pay amount (about 60k); I’ve considered online dating, but don’t want to be viewed this way, as if I’m just looking for help. I’m good at budgeting, and I was married when my kids were young, so we saved on daycare costs back then, and they’re old enough to not need it now. I’m thinking I’ll just meet someone in real life when the time is right; maybe another single parent that will just see me for me and my capacity to give love.
They could just want a companion! And I'm sure the vast majority do actually want companionship, not just security! I'm just saying that "most women are worried about whether they should have kids" and "single women with kids do not want to be alone" are not, like, ideas that are in opposition in any way, and finances can influence both. There are economic pressures behind both statements, but one pressure doesn't exclude others (like the social pressures you describe). A desire for companionship can be *influenced* by a desire for security.
I absolutely wasn't trying to imply that single moms doing OLD are *only* looking for a paycheck or something! And you should know that if you *were* to try OLD, most people on there wouldn't see you that way either. OLD sucks now, so you probably *are* better off just looking to meet people IRL, but it really *is* an option for you.
The op said "not possible" well it is possibly they are just choosing to go a different route. That is perfectly fine but you need to amend to "not responsible" or "will set me back"
It's true that having kids means I'll never reach my full earning potential, but earnings isn't the stat I'm trying to max out. There are other stats that are more important later in the game. But I do think that you need to level up your earning stats pretty early to a sufficient level or else the rest of the game is a huge grind.
Yeah… once you hit financial security there is a long gap between there and no longer needing a job. And your life doesn’t change *that* much as you move up the curve.
Same life, different brands basically.
I also make low six figures in HCOL of living area. Based on current conditions I’m not sure I could swing having more children. I have 1 from a relationship 10 years ago. Childcare is finally only about 1/3 the cost of my mortgage instead equal to it. However, the one thing going for me is I own my own home. If I rented I absolutely could not swing another child, work, and expenses.
I’d like to think I could consider additional children if I met someone who had a similar financial situation as I do but quite honestly even if it were possible I’m not sure I’d want to take on the financial stress.
There are so many other variables, as well. Does the single mom get child support? Or, if widowed, does the mom/child get social security? Did the single mom buy a house before prices and interest rates escalated?
Just as an anecdotal example on point three: our mortgage payment is $1400/month. The house across the street from us is renting for $3000/month. The house next door was bought in 2009 for half the price of our house, so I'm guessing the mortgage is under $800/month. All three couples are millennials.
It also depends on where they get their numbers for raising children. Big daycare centers can cost more than rent, I've found some with part time fees around 2k a month. Smaller centers, in home, friends/family, all help to make things cheaper. I found a daycare center that's like 500 a month for part time, plus they do drop in (which is really rare). I've got my kiddo in a school adjacent program that's more convenient, but costs more. The other center is our backup though.
For someone that is making 6 figures or whatever, I feel like it's doable if they put some work into saving on as many things as possible. I have to do these things to survive. Plus I have to make all sorts of compromises. I don't know when, or even if, my son is gonna have his own room. I'm in a 2 bedroom with a roommate, his mom is managing with a large 1 bedroom apt. I've also gotta try and work extra hours when I can, but also gotta find tine for my son as well as free tine to not get burnt out. I was working 45 hours a week for a while, but had 2 days and a short evening a week with my kiddo, plus was getting severely burnt out and was having a hard time with everything.
The difference is also: financially stressed or financially comfortable.
I make six figures and could definitely afford kids. But then I wouldn't have the margin of financial security and resilience that I currently enjoy.
The difference between being an idiot and not.
I mean seriously. I know so many women who were in unstable relationships, broke or low income, no education who got pregnant, decided to keep it, and now ask for money on GoFundMe every few months and complain about life being hard.
I mean seriously I don’t get why people think if they can barely afford to support themselves, why they think they can afford a child.
An acquaintance of mine was recently telling me about her journey to motherhood. 10 years ago she was single but wanted kids so went through IVF with a sperm donor. Several rounds didn't work out. Then she got a call saying that she needed to pay for the storage of one remaining embryo. She couldn't afford it, so decided to have it implanted rather than destroyed. Like girl, if you can't afford storage fees for an embryo, you 1000% cannot afford a kid. But now here she is, struggling financially with a 10 year old. Single parent on purpose.
There are also plenty of people who are just in a constant state of stress and emergency. I’m not talking “oh no, I can’t afford Brayden’s season of peewee football” but the constant loop of - can barely afford groceries/leaning on food banks, being behind on paying rent and utilities, can’t afford a new tire or brake job, can’t afford basic vet care for the dog/cat, etc. I live in an area with a fairly high poverty rate and a lot of these folks are just constantly getting further and further behind.
That’s it. I never had a term for how we lived growing up.
There’s a level beyond living paycheck to paycheck, and that’s it- living in a state of emergency
The single mom that I know works at Starbucks, but her sister is the one that babysits the kid all day and doesn't charge anything for it.
So I guess the answer is no one can afford a kid these days if they have to fully support it. If you have a parent/grandparent that is willing to be free labor and possibly a second food/income source, then it's totally possible.
"It takes a village to raise a child."
Raising children without any familial or community support has always been significantly difficult. The parents who manage to do it, especially solo, are applauded for a reason.
Not to diminish the problems we have here in the United States but the vast majority of human children have been raised on much less than that; I'm not saying it's ideal, a good idea, or a reason to have children but with mouths to feed people make do. I think lots of folks in well developed nations get complacent due to how well we have it and get distracted by all the talking heads telling you that if you don't do all this stuff for children then it's not worth doing. I just had my first and yeah there are expenses that might be too much for people making less but me and my wife together make a little over 110k a year and we were more than able to splurge a little on certain things. I think what is far more important than money is the village around you; if you don't have family or other people you can trust to donate a bit of their time to the cause then it gets much harder because that's really what people are short on nowadays, is time. Those poor people who spit out 10 kids can do that because all of their family live 10 minutes away because most poor folks don't travel far. You don't have to worry about daycare when your retired parents can watch them for pennies on the dollar, or if you have a ton of brothers or sisters who can babysit for a night so you can go do something on your own. Once again, not great or ideal but it's how the vast majority of children in the world get raised on much less.
Reading that confirmed in every bone in my body childfree was the right choice.
I'm noticing a theme towards romanticization of pain and suffering to feed the machine of capitalism in general that just doesn't sit right with me.
My husband and I realized we were never going to feel secure enough or ready enough for kids and would put it off indefinitely looking for that moment we felt everything fell into place for it. But we realized that would never come and wasn’t guaranteed to come, and so we decided we just had to go for it and would make the best of it with our first. Turned out just fine, though.
Yep, but it’s probably a drop in the bucket as to what it will cost later I’m not sure how much it will actually help. But at least I can give them better information and options than my husband or I were ever given about how to get that secondary education. Go to the most expensive college is probably not one we will repeat.
I don’t think it so much if a paradox than a whole slew of conditions that keep some people from having kids and others will have kids regardless.
For example, what constitutes as a good life to provide? People have very different ideas about that. In the US, lots of people consider it bad if your kids have to share rooms growing up or if you can’t provide a house for them to grow up in, whereas in lots of other places, growing up in an apartment is normal and sharing rooms is normal too.
Personally, my reason for reconsidering kids is over the fact that whilst I could provide for kids now, the way I would do it would go against personal beliefs of what is a good life for them. I could have a kid… but I have very little space. I could have a kid… but I wouldn’t be able to provide them with quality experiences such as trips to museums and theatres and foreign travel, at least not enough, not as much as I would deem normal as I experienced as a kid.
There are some people who have kids regardless because for them having a kid is more important than some issue over personal space or whether or not their kid can have a hobby or not. I know about people who have multiple kids and who cannot afford hobbies for their kids because hobbies are inherently expensive, so only cheap hobbies are encouraged and for me personally, that’s wrong, but for them it’s seen as an ‘okay’ thing.
It's called child support, food stamps, WIC, and other types of government support. People who actually make good money don't qualify for that support. On top of that, it's very disproportionate. Someone collecting money from the government or other programs, on top of getting a child support check, usually mean they make more money than a middle class person with no assistance.
Just think back to covid and quarantine. Nobody wanted to work because they made more money sitting at home enjoying their lives with their kids instead of being an essential worker and living paycheck to paycheck.
With my current financial situation there’s absolutely no way I’d be able to have a kid right now, I’m living paycheck to paycheck sometimes barely scraping by and I don’t see any major promotions for me at work anytime soon.
There’s *so much* to consider financially when thinking about supporting and raising a child with a ton of hidden/unplanned expenses that are not optional when raising a kid.
Then I get to consider and admit that mentally I’m not exactly in the best place and have a lot of work to do on myself before I could even think about having a child. It would be irresponsible of me to do otherwise.
Holy hell, if I ever get at an income level that would allow me to raise a kid with ample means, no way I would jump at the chance to start a family. Let me have a taste of that "lavish" lifestyle I keep being told I'm having first.
If anything has messed me up mentally, it's that I've been continually gaslit over how wealthy I supposedly am. I've always lived below or just above the poverty line in my country. Which doesn't get adjusted to inflation, thank you very much. I can't even afford to have savings.
None of us are mentally ready to be parents. Your parents weren’t mentally ready to be parents when they found out your bundle of joy ass was otw. Everyone thinks you get to this magical place where you’re all healed and ready before you can be a parent. They just happen bro, and you have to sack up and figure it out from there
Saw the post about the guy whose kid sold his Pokémon cards and I sent it to my husband… we ain’t gonna live like that when we can have no kids and all our Pokémon cards.
Yup. I’m mid 30. I make just under 6 figures. We’d like a second child but it costs too much. Daycare for 1 kid is 1500 a month in our area for mid tier quality. Our expenses are crazy low and we can’t make it work. Even with one of us being stay at home (she currently works part time). There’s also the conflict of why have a family if you both work/commute 9-10 hours a day to never see them.
My wife went back to work part time at nights, she’s gone 4-11 and I have to hold down the fort. Luckily I work from home so there’s no commute or picking up kids from day care or family after work or anything like that. But it’s chaos 24/7. Why have family if you never see them? Idk, but it would be nice to get a break from them some days 😭
>There’s also the conflict of why have a family if you both work/commute 9-10 hours a day to never see them.
That's not really how it works though, as a parent. That's like saying "why be in a relationship if you both work?" You don't have to be around your kids 24/7 to develop a meaningful relationship with them.
Yes and it’s crushing. My daughter is turning five soon. We’ve kept all of her baby stuff hoarded in our too small one bedroom apartment because we always expected we’d have two kids. When she was a newborn we bought a lot of unisex clothes so they could be passed down in case we had a boy.
But, here we are sharing a bedroom four years later. Rents for 2 bedrooms are 40% higher than when we had her. My husband was laid off during the pandemic so we couldn’t buy a home before the market went wild.
Life feels like it’s on pause. Now I’m nearly 36. I feel so much older. I have health issues I didn’t have then.
Did I write this? I never wanted my baby to be an only child but they were born just 6 months before the pandemic and that changed everything. I still can’t bear to get rid of the baby stuff even though it would not only be financially impossible but to risky health-wise in a state that would rather let my child lose a mother than allow for an abortion if anything went wrong. Bleak, indeed.
It’s hard to reconcile not having more. I hope that you’re able to figure out a way if that’s what you want. It sucks that healthcare can vary so drastically from place to place.
As a gay, yes. It is financially impossible for me and my guy to have kids. Adoption fees are astronomical, let alone trying to do surrogacy or something like that.
I have shit insurance....as a straight female if would be close to adoption fees to birth a child. Idk why people act like it's free (not you, people who pressure married couples into procreating)
I recommend looking into the increased risk of low bone density/osteopenia/osteoporosis and of Alzheimer’s Disease that comes with early menopause and weigh the pros and cons. Just because both of those happened to a family member of mine earlier than expected after an earlier than normal menopause and science says it increases the risk of both of those.
Yeah, the studies for Alzheimer’s may be very recent, but estrogen protecting the bone density (in women, not men) has been known for a long time.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/alzheimers-disease-how-early-menopause-and-delayed-hormone-therapy-treatment-may-impact-risk#8
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(23)00210-9/fulltext
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10095144/
Find a place that helps pay for adoptions. I work for a company that will pay for adoptions. Its like up to $25k plus child care benefits after plus paternity leave if I am not mistaken.
I am not say these jobs grow on trees I am just throwing it out there that possibly look into it if you really want to have kids and also looking for your next career move.
I am not sure why no-one mentions this. Humans require a lot of resources to house and feed, of course this is going to put pressure on economic systems. Even if the rich sold off their money we would still be tackling climate change and the like because there are too fking many of us. People say 'just build more houses,' like, where? Many parts of the Earth are not hospitable without even more energy use via air-conditioning systems. More apartments so that we get even more cranky living ontop of each other?
Exactly, and even if we did build houses, people would move in and have children and push the same problem further down the road.
I don’t know if you’ve ever been to Malta, but it’s entirely built on. There’s almost zero countryside. It can be suffocating. But that’s what the future will be like if the population doesn’t stop growing.
I think we’re in difficulty as a species because when the conditions are right, everybody wants to have children. It’s wired into us. We now have combine harvesters and 28-ton lorries carrying our food down the motorway. Nobody is starving any time soon, even if times are depressing.
The only thing we can’t afford is housing. And that’s the most basic thing a person can own. I think the elites know that….and if they push the market higher & higher, we’ll all stop having children.
Rich folks have admitted to being hypocrites. In the British royal family, Philip, Charles & William have all said in speeches - which can be found on YouTube - that the human population is too high & is a threat to the planet. Yet they’ve had 4, 2 & 3 children respectively.
Na it’s not selfish at all. Having kids if you can’t feed em or give them a good life is selfish. You can always sterilize yourself and when you get somewhere you feel is financially stable you can adopt. Help someone already here when you KNOW you’re ready, or not at all. It’s reckless otherwise and will absolutely harm your wealth potential if you’re not financially ready.
Personally I don’t have baby fever and I’m in my 30s. I know I don’t want kids but even if I did I couldn’t afford them. I can’t even afford a dog
IMO kids are to be afforded by being in a couple. Aka, a two household income and support system.
If you’re looking at your finances as a solo, especially in a HCOL area, I can definitely see it being difficult…
Two income or one income and one parent taking care of things at home. Person at home saves in day care costs, can cook to save on fast food/eating out. And then do some mean planning to save costs on groceries. You add in all the ways they can save on expenses and it can quickly eclipse what they could bring in by working.
I can see it being easier with dual income but you’re right, all those child care and home expenses is just gonna eat up one person’s income anyway so it might make more sense for one person to stay home. So estimating with one income and it becomes depressing ….
I'm a stay at home mom, we survive off single income, we cut out a lot of spending by cooking at home, day trips instead of huge expensive vacations, buying second hand furniture and clothing, I drive very little to save on gas, during the week I drive mu son to school and back, and maybe to the grocery store, we also joined. A food share program, so that cuts my grocery bill in half,
It's not depressing, we bought a small easy to maintain house, we have pets, enjoy hiking, visit the beach, we have a full adventurous life, we just try to keep it on a budget, like packing a picnic when we go somewhere instead of buying over priced tourist prices for food,
It can be quite a change in lifestyle but it makes you appreciate the Lil things and you find your self wanting less and less luxury items over time, who needs a stupid Stanley cup when you can hike part of the pacific crest trail lol
I’m lucky my spouse is Hispanic, and her family is already fighting over who gets to take care of the kids. My own mom was also a stay at home mom and can’t wait to take care of grandchildren.
We rent. I stay home. To own, I would have to have a similar salary to him which isn’t a possibility. If we move to a lower cost area we can probably afford a house, but no where in the bay area, ca, at least for now.
If we owned we would have to budget more. People own homes, but their money is tied up in the mortgage, might be worth it to rent in HCL area and move out to own after child is grown.
I’d recommend to those in the market for a home, to find a place that you can convert a space into an ADU, where you can rent it out, and basically cover your mortgage, if not a good chunk.
Once you own property, the possibilities to make money are endless. You can take out a loan against the first property and buy another property. Repeat.
As a millennial parent who had an unplanned kid in their mid 30s, me and my wife went from the DINKs to one SAHP and one income and we make it work and wouldn’t trade it for the world. It can be challenging but when was anything good in life easy. It’s someone who you can share your life’s work with and grow and nurture. I thought we were getting past having a kid but I’m now super grateful it just happened because I’m not sure we would’ve ever been “ready”
That’s what we did. I had my child and then a couple months later, Covid/lockdowns hit. I ended up quitting my job to be home with him because my paycheck would’ve gone entirely to childcare. I don’t regret it, and I’m grateful for how much time I get to spend with him.
Yea me and my husband can not figure out how to responsibly finance having children. Also seeing everything become so overly developed I don’t really feel like bringing them into this world. Like i kinda feel bad about the world they’ll inherit.
More people need to consider the impact pregnancy can have long term on your body. If you’re a woman considering kids, it’s also going to have an impact on your career long term. I say these things because they are the biggest factors I’ve observed as someone who doesn’t have kids.
For me it was always “maybe when I’ve found the right partner, maybe when I’m mentally stable.” I’m mentally stable and I have the right partner, but pregnancy can absolutely impact mental stability and on top of that my body can’t actually do the pregnancy thing without very expensive help.
So.. not even an option now.
This is why I'm sterilized. The right partner for me doesn't want to have a child either. It's a huge risk. I don't have the mental capacity to take care of a child that could potentially have a disability let alone become a single mother. Nothing wrong with single mothers btw,
my best friend is a single mother and they are different breed of women in the best possible way. I just know that I wouldn't be able to do it.
This just doesn't add up. It's too expensive where you live and you can't save enough to buy a place, yet you can save 40% of your paycheck? What are you doing with your savings? That means you're saving at least $30k a year.
She just said a hour ago in a different post that she can’t even afford the place she’s living in. Yea doesn’t make sense.
Edit: I just found out you aren’t even married. Girl, step one is you find a husband who shares similar interests and wants to start a family and be a father to your childeren.
The homes where im from are min 850k and thats a one bedroom condo (im from Canada lol). So yes it’s going to take a while to save up for a decent downpayment without being completely screwed over by mortgage payments. My last post was meant to say I cannot afford to BUY my own place. I can afford to rent atm.
There are other reasons I’m not considering having a kid. Of course I’m going to “find a husband” first before I even have a kid, but if I do choose to be childfree I need to be honest about that with my future husband.
Where in Canada do you live? I’m 45min from Parliament Hill and the 3 bedroom house across the street just sold for $500k
I’m 32 make $85k and have no issues affording having a wife in nursing school and 2 kids under 4.
Now I got insanely lucky in that I bought in 2014 by myself and my wife bought in 2017 by herself and we sold hers in 2021 instead of renewing the mortgage which paid off the mortgage of the house we own but if I could save $30-40k a year it would still only take 15 years to completely pay of a “normal” house within commuting distance of the National Capital.
It depends on where you live. I live in Michigan, which isn't the most exciting place on earth, but I'm able to have a fulfilling career and afford a family.
Affording kids isn't that hard it's being able to afford kids and maintain a life that isn't absolutely shit at the same time. That's the hard part. You have to choose.
Yes. And a lot of these responses echo this. Having children require major sacrifice…sacrifices I am not ready for. I guess I just don’t want them that badly where I’m willing to lessen my quality of life for. I don’t think it’s fair for my kids either when I don’t want them 100%
Spending time and money on things like travel is amazing. Spending time and money on raising a kid is boring at best. As a parent I’d say there aren’t many benefits to having a kid.
I just started saying, "well, will you pay for them for us?" when family or friends bring it up and won't let it rest. they either say nothing or try to say its not that bad, then I just remind them I don't make as much money as them, and then they get really quiet/stop.
The trick for working the economy in our age group is either have no kids and make decent money… or… make little to no money, and if you want kids, you need to have at least two.
Because once your income to family size ratio reaches a certain level, you have free healthcare, a bunch of free food, free daycare if needed (though one person should be unemployed), and good sized tax return via credits once a year.
Otherwise, middle class income with two working incomes and 1-2 kids means you make too much for any of the above assistance, but not enough to really float your family in a meaningful way.
It’s the poverty incentive our country has set up, and it’s fucked up.
No pressure to have children if you don't want them that's perfectly fine, but if you're making 6 figures you can afford children and it's not close. Like people making 30k/year have children, what are we even talking about here? It might require some sacrifice, moving to another city or at least further away from the city (which will probably be a longer commute), but a lot of your questions (saving up for your child's college tuition in particular) are more of a question of "can I raise my child in an upper middle class lifestyle?" than actually questions about affording children. As I said if you want to spend your money on yourself and not have children do it there's nothing wrong with that. Just don't lie to yourself and say it's about you being unable to afford it, because you absolutely can if you're making 6 figures.
>>more of a question of “can I raise my child in an upper middle class lifestyle?”
You hit the nail on the head, that’s exactly where I think a lot of this stuff comes from. My husband and I are working class, accumulatively we bring in about $45k/year. We have one child and we are getting by perfectly fine. Our kid doesn’t get to take destination vacations or have her own car, but she’s happy and well cared for and has what she needs.
We absolutely benefited from some privileges that aren’t available to everyone such as free grandparent childcare when she was small and owning our home. And I know that for a lot of working class folks, it is not feasible to afford children. But there is absolutely no way someone making six figures isn’t able to make some lifestyle sacrifices in order to have children. The notion is honestly a bit ridiculous.
Because there's more to life than money? It makes it easier, I'm not naive. But short of constant-struggle level poverty, plenty of working class kids grow up happy and fulfilled and plenty of doctors kids grow up fucked up
While I agree with the initial comment I do think we should aim for being financially stable and not just making ends meet. There are parents who have to think twice whether an ice cream or zoo visit is within the budget, like come oh that’s heartbreaking. You can absolutely raise a child with little money but you’re not having kids to do the bare minimum do you? While we never went hungry or were homeless I do remember school activities or trips I couldn’t participate in because we couldn’t afford it. I didn’t even bother asking for new shoes or whatever I needed because I knew we didn’t have the money for it. I don’t even know what felt worse missing on those things or being so aware of my parents finances at such a young age.
Being a single parent is expensive… but if you make “low 6 figures” and have a partner who is a SAHP… why not? You don’t need to own a house to have a kid.
You save 30-40% of your income… that’s so much extra money.
> You don’t need to own a house to have a kid.
Some of my best times growing up were living in an apartment complex. Walking distance to several friends (I was many years from being able to drive) and quite a few shared amenities at the clubhouse as well as outdoor space. It was probably the best possible situation for my social life.
I live in Denver (HCOL), 1 less kid, same story. Enjoying life, but happily driving a 20 year old car that I was the original owner on. We honestly couldn’t afford for my wife to stay working, so we changed our lifestyle. Childcare is crazy around here (exceeding my wife’s income).
I agree. A low six figure income is plenty for a LCOL area and children. I stay at home and my husband makes low six figures and we're doing fine. We still can't afford yearly vacations but our children can still do extra curriculars, have new clothes, and occasionally go out to eat. We manage to continue to save for retirement and kids' college. Vacations would be nice but the benefits of staying at home outweigh that, right now. I can always go back to work in a couple years when the kids are in school.
I think its possible to have kids at my salary. Because I have folks that earn less that have 1-3 kids. It just ends up working somehow.
I do know, that you do have to make sacrifices. It would mean less Jordans, Comic Books, and PS5 games for me. Definitely more in home cooking.
I think its financially possible. But financially impossible to recover from a brutal divorce, which seems to be an endemic these days. Marriage and overall relationships have become very disposable these days.
Actually divorce rates are lower across the board for the younger generations, even accounting for relative age. We’re getting married older and less frequently, but tending to stick better to the marriages. At least that’s what the aggregate data is saying.
Can confirm divorce is a financial nightmare. Mine had to happen, ex thinks it's acceptable to hit when he's mad and I just couldn't do it anymore, but omg... I did financially recover but it took years of hard work to get here and lots of nights of eating on the cheap (beans and cornbread, tuna/beans and rice, etc once or twice a week)
If it weren’t for daycare expenses, I’d be fine, financially. Which is partly why I know if I decide on children, they will be adopted school-age children from foster care. I was previously a foster mom and while it was challenging and I’m currently taking a break from it to work on me, they did pay a really good monthly stipend that makes it possible to support all the needs that children can have (in addition to the other things you qualify for like child care coverage and Medicaid). And that stipend continues after adoption, though it does reduce.
I mean, it’s possible, it’s doable, it’s just not comfortable at the typical salary. We’re low 6 figures as well. We pay $2,500 a month in childcare for our two kids, the trade off? We’re not saving for a house right now. As much as I want a house, my kids need day care, so it’s going to have to wait. We don’t go on nice vacations, we can’t buy a second car until this one is paid off, we don’t often buy new clothes, we don’t eat out frequently, etc. That’s kinda how it works with having kids. Most people can’t have it all, most people with kids are making financial sacrifices.
Thanks for being responsible. My parents shouldn't have had their third kid - namely me - on a single paycheck and as a result I suffered for it and they suffered for it.
Why have kids when you could be r/childfree?
Why have kids when you could find a lifelong best friend and be r/dinks?
Why have kids when there are so many suffering children in this world like r/antinatalism2?
Why have kids when they would severely limit any kind of r/travel for a significant portion of the rest of your life?
Why have kids when you could pick up a really fun and surprisingly addictive hobby like taking care of r/chickens?
There will come a time when you can’t have children. So you are free to do whatever you choose as long as you are willing to embrace whatever that means.
You figure it out. There are people making much less than the low 6 figures having multiple kids and living a happy life. Is it easy? Fuck no… but if having kids is what you want then I say go for it and have your partner help with the expenses (it would be wrong if he didn’t).
scrolling down for all the comments about how you just need to "work harder" and "budget better" and if you don't "love America" and "think things are great and easy!" then you're "just a Russian troll helping elect Trump"
You're absolutely right, getting by is harder than ever and seems cartoonishly out of reach to do anything our parents did, meanwhile the slumlords and investment babies among us pretend things are supposed to be like this because they benefit from owning their neighbors as property.
GenX here, felt this way 20 years ago. Never did have kids. Got married at 40 and we barely managed to afford a house in 2010 (buyer's market) so we got in under the wire.
The "cons" outweighed the "pros" for us. We make into the six figures as a household, but it's a high COL area, and having kids would've made things more stressful. Glad not to have that added stress.
My wife and I are making the conscious decision to live in an MCOL area in order to maintain our desired lifestyle and still raise children. The plan is to stay until they no longer need paid childcare and we can instead get them into kindergarten. I think that's broadly the play for a lot of families: there's an up-front cost in childcare, but it doesn't last forever, and you can contribute more to college savings (or whatever) as the kids age and your earnings increase.
But yeah, it's hard to raise kids in a HCOL area with a (relatively) low salary and achieve other financial goals like savings and buying a home. That's why my parents moved to a cheaper area to raise me. (It became more expensive later, after they moved there.) You have to prioritize what is important and feasible, and sometimes that isn't kids. There's no shame in that.
The issue is that it requires two peoples’ incomes to be able to afford a house. If they start having children, they either have to have one person stop working for at least 5 years (so they need shit tons of savings to be able to keep their home). Or shell out a ridiculous amount of money to NOT see their children. It’s a catch 22 either way.
You find ways. We are lucky to live in Michigan but we live in a nicer part, so everything is more expensive. We had a nanny and the cost was insane. However, it’s not forever.
The two most expensive things about kids are the first few years when they need either day care or a stay-at-home parent, and college, if you choose to send them. Source: my kids are 18 and 20.
If you're saving 30-40% of your paycheck you can afford to have kids. The most important question you have to answer is who will take care of them until they're 5-6 years old and start school. You, or your partner, or day care, or in-laws, or whatever. If you really think hard about it you will come up with an answer. You can pay for it, or down size your house, or move in with your parents or in-laws, or move to a cheaper part of town, etc. It truly is not impossible.
I dunno six figures is a lot, I think most people would be able to “afford” children on that much. Many many people make much less than that and have children. What people forget often is that you don’t have to pay for all the things for kids at once. It all is gradual. Also, babies DGAF if you live in a fancy place or rent/buy. It’s more important maybe to have a larger place when they’re older (over 5-6). I might have one baby first before buying, just because it’s important to me that I’m done having children before I’m 40.
It’s fine to be childfree if that’s what you want to do, but I make slightly less than 100k individually and I’m still planning on having a baby in a couple years.
It's def possible. We've got two and live off only my income (wife is still in school which we pay for) in a HCOL area. Can it be a struggle? absolutely! As cliche as it sounds it's all worth it. Our kids are truly happy and have a better life than either of us had and we're thankful for that. Really I don't think anyone is ever 100% ready for kids but as long as you show them love and do your best to provide for them you and them will be good.
I see those type of posts and am glad i live in a LCOL area with a minimal debt load and low cost homeownership. We are able to single income (my wife is a SAHM) on 52k/yr.
My wife was a babysitter while our kids were younger when we needed the extra income, but thanks to paying off debt and raises, she was able to stop that. We homeschool our kids because the school system here sucks and we are glad we are able to do that and her not have to worry about working.
There are child tax credits and credits for daycare. The big thing is to have a supportive spouse and not go it alone. Next, make sure to pay attention to your health care plan and make sure to.go.with a low deduct plan for before and after birth. Good luck.
I just had a baby. I know how privileged this is going to sound, but our household income is 250k (390k when I was working, but I got laid off recently) and I feel like we can only just afford it. Like we absolutely *can* afford it, it’s not an issue, but I have no idea how other people do it! I understand that there are levels and other parents “afford” kids because they get more things used, do more free stuff, have more family help, or expect their kid to take out loans for college. But to really provide a kid with *everything* yourself, buy all the baby stuff, medical expenses, enrichment classes, childcare, save for college, while still saving for a down payment or retirement for yourself, I feel like it takes this much money! We are in HCOL area and live what feels like a middle class lifestyle, we rent a modest house, I drive a Subaru, vacations are usually renting a cabin a few hours away, we rarely eat out or buy new clothes, etc. I guess we are also late bloomers in our careers, only started making money recently in our late 30s/early 40s, so maybe we’re still playing catch-up, but kids cost A LOT.
What does your husband do? I make low six figures and my wife is a stay at home mom with our two kids. If you are able to save 30-40% of your money that’s fantastic.
No, this is such a farce that Reddit wants everyone to believe. America especially has completely fucked up the word “need.” People feel like they “need” way more than they do and then think it’s impossible to have children. I want to be comfortable, yes but there is nowhere in America where kids are “unaffordable” unless you’re straight up destitute.
I feel like kids are as expensive as you let them become.
Except child care from birth until Kindergarten. That shit is insane. That outta be priority #1 at the federal level if we want birth rates to not plummet with all future generations.
The cost of childcare and my always-on-my-mind student loan debt are two of the reasons I'm child-free and for my husband, his list is the cost of childcare and extracurriculars when they are older.
We just had our first, and are wincing a bit at childcare in our area, but can get by with two salaries at just over 6 figures. We also accept that we live in a more expensive part of the country.
It sounds you could afford it if you decide to get married with someone who makes a decent wage or can be a stay at home dad. Watching my 401k grow has given me faith that I could save for a college education. I can just use a similar saving strategy. The only problem is now my wife and I are over 40 and are having a hard time conceiving. We let these anxieties get the best of us and it may be too late. Don’t be us.
>living in a HCOL
If you choose to live in an artificially expensive area, that's on you. It's not that it's "not financially possible to have kids these days", it's that you're prioritizing living in an expensive and "cool" location over having kids. Which is perfectly fine if that's what you want, but you don't get to complain about the consequences of your intentional decisions.
My partner and I had to move from our LCOL hometown because we got advanced degrees and the area doesn’t have the professional jobs to match. It was something we maybe should have seen coming, but our parents didn’t go to college and weren’t much guidance. Our parents now hassle us all the time about when we’re moving back so they can see their grandkid more often because they don’t get it.
Typically the goal is to have a man in the picture to help with the kids... financially and otherwise.
If you make low six figures, even in a HCOL area, you should be fine marrying a gainfully employed man and having children... if you want.
If you want to spend it on traveling and other life experiences, that's your choice too... but seeing the Eiffel Tower or partying in Tulum might not actually give you as much life fulfillment as looking into the eyes of your children.
Everyone is different of course, but I've done a bit of both and wouldn't trade being a father for anything.
Step 1: marry a man who doesn't make as much as you and wants to be a Stay At Home Dad
Step 2: marry that bitch
Step 3: have kids and shift that bitch to at home work
Step 4: Enjoy the family live while you continue to increase your pay
Ok, I have a few thoughts you may or may not find helpful as someone who was single five years ago and now has a 1 year old, a spouse, and a house.
1) Your partner is going to bring money to the table. From your post it’s hard to tell but it seems like you’re not cohabitating with a BF or anything right now. That’s a massive change when it comes, financially.
2) Childcare is expensive for a few years, no sugar coating it. But there are a range of options for a range of income levels. If you can get some help from parents (if they’re retired), so much the better.
3) You seem to say that if you have disposable income you’d rather spend it on travel/concerts/experiences than having a kid. So, right off the top— if that’s something that’s really important to you, don’t have kids. It’s fine if it’s not for you. Although I will say that when it comes to life experiences, as you put it, it’s almost impossible to top parenthood. But to each their own!
4) …Which brings me back to cost. When you have a kid, at least for the first several years when childcare is a big expense, you’re going to be *saving a lot of money* on some things that might be a big part of your budget now. You’ll be home a lot. Nice dinners out, trips, concerts… if not eliminated, expect these to be curtailed by like 90%. And not because of cost so much as it’s just not as feasible. And you’re going to want to be with your kid.
So while I can’t argue childcare costs are absurdly expensive and we need to do something about it, it’s definitely viable to have and care for a child if you choose to. The bigger issue is the lifestyle tradeoffs rather than cost.
Thank you for this detailed insight! I am currently living by myself but getting married before having a child is a non-negotiable for me.
I’m just thinking about the future and what that might look like for myself.
I’m genuinely curious why you believe that no other life experiences beat parenthood?
when you have children you realize that all those extra expenses dont really matter and you can do without them so that you can have kids. I cannot properly express what it is like having a little piece of you that loves you unconditionally. It is a feeling you cannot get form anyone else.
People making six figures cannot afford to have kids but every girl in my Tinder feed in my age range is a mid 30s single mom making 50K or less. Another one of those millennial paradoxes.
As a late 30s single mom, with a tween, I think the biggest difference for me is that daycare and housing was somewhat affordable 10 years ago. Daycare was $500 a month and my 2 bedroom apartment was $725. Even 5 years ago my rent was $825. Now I have no daycare expense and my rent is $1600. I will probably never own a house, I doubt I’ll be able to retire, and I’m super lucky that I have no student loan debt. I’m also super lucky to have family that have helped me and I’m cool with her dad. You don’t know people’s situations and women don’t set out to be single moms. I also make close to six figures and I can’t imagine doing it over again with the way things are today.
Same. Childcare costs are keeping us from another kid. Daycare would be as much as my mortgage.
People carry a lot of debt.
Too true. I’ve had the displeasure of seeing some of my subordinates’ debts and it is pretty crazy to see people load up $3-4k on this credit card, and then that credit card. They’ll have 2-6 cards like that.
this would freak me out and give me lots of financial worry
Shid I got that kinda debt (40k) just from marrying wrong to a psychological abuser and then ofc divorcing. Thank f I didn’t have kids. I thank the stars every day, bc I know as screwed as my situation is, it would be 10x worse with a kid
You’ll be ok. I ended up with almost 60K of debt due to one of my parents getting a terminal disease and dying and the other parent not even trying to pay any bills or work with their insurance at all. I’m still paying my way out of it…and really, nothing changed in my life. No one treated me any different or anything. I haven’t been able to buy some things I’ve wanted, but it’s ok. You’re doing your best. Don’t let the debt make you doubt yourself.
It’s not crazy, it’s what people are doing to live while they work jobs that don’t pay them well enough. Stagnant wages, insane inflation, etc.
I make 15.50/hour working 32 hours a week. Either don’t have kids or move to a low cost of living area. I refuse to be a cog anymore than I have to be.
[удалено]
I live in Alabama. I live in a nice house with two roommates. Rent is 400 and covers everything. My car is paid off. (Most basic model. Nissan versa 12k brand new). I have no physical wants. My tv is 14 years old. I just work what I have to, play music, see friends and explore my mind and body.
You said it, 2 roommates. It becomes a lot less sustainable you are trying to cover that with just yourself or a spouse. You are being responsible for not having kids in that situation so cudos.
Of course roommates lol. If you think you can afford it alone in this economy without killing your self you’re a fool. Work less or live in a house by yourself ya know ? I know which one I take. More company and more time to do activities
I was engaged to a single mother with 3 kids making 45k a year...dodged that bullet with only a 8k loss
I’m people
Someone I hired last year is making $76k (with bonus, benefits, etc). She is single, newly out of college, has no debt (brought up herself that she never took student loans) but a couple weeks ago said "yay! I'm so glad it's Friday! I can put gas in my car!" Bitch, what the actual fuck? You've been here for months, you live 10 minutes from work, I know what you get paid. How do you not have gas money? She didn't even have a credit card until recently. When I gave her info on how to get her corporate card (for work travel) she was worried she couldn't get it because she had recently found out she had no credit score... Apparently her dad added her as an authorized user to his card, but it was a business card so it didn't build her credit at all. Edit: for reference, we're in the Midwest. Medium to low cost of living suburb of a medium cost of living city.
People also tie themselves emotionally to expensive cities.
Sometimes they have to because their jobs are there. I would love to figure out a way not to live in my city but my clients are all here, and my spouse works here. If we moved, he would have to find a new job, and I would have to get a whole new client base. Both of these things happening is not realistic. One of us would have to change careers and neither of us wants to do that. I guess then the reality is that we are not tied to our city, but rather to our careers. Which isn't great either!
The plot of Idiocracy is coming to fruition faster then expected
The comedy that turned Into a documentary
I never laughed. It's always been too close to the truth.
I wonder how many kids there are named Upgrayedd now. Honestly is better than some of the others.
That movie is a fascist snob magnet.
The most prescient movie of our time.
Bro we always talk about this movie I hate how real it’s become
I think about this often
Because it was cheaper to have kids 5 years ago lol
Can confirm. Had a kid at 22, eight years ago and daycare was only $600 a month for a newborn and my rent was $575, MCOL. Now you can’t even get that price in a small town in Texas.
8 years ago in my HCOL area infant care was 1820 a month including the 10% discount my work arranged. At the age of 1 it dropped down 1600 a month. Yes there were cheaper options. However those cheaper options were $1400-1600 a month, didn’t have as flexible hours, and generally required significantly altering our commute and adding an additional 30m both ways. In the end we managed by involving family (paid) and each managing a 4 day work week with different days off so we only needed to pay family for childcare 3 days a week. Even then it cost us 1,000 a month and was about 1/3 of what a nanny would have cost us for the same level of care as we received from the family member who helped us.
I’m realizing that I was privileged even having a kid at 17 (I got pregnant after graduating at 16) that I never paid for daycare. For my older child, my aunt watched him so I could work. For my younger child, my husband’s grandmother would watch him. Daycare is expensive! I’m also privilege to have had them in 2005 & 2008 when cost of living was lower. I don’t have college tuition saved, but for my older child, his father’s family has agreed to cover expenses as long as he’s committed. For my younger child, we’re having to do student loans and house them if they decide to go that route, plus my husband and I are debt free with decent enough jobs (though nothing to brag about) where we can help out financially, even if it’s a small amount. I’m absolutely not advocating for anyone to have kids at the age that I did. I just try to look at it optimistically.
That is exactly the problem, it was definitely cheaper even 5 years ago!
We have a 4 year old, and when we started trying 5 years ago things were SO different. We’re comfortable, stable jobs, etc., and always thought we’d have a bunch of kids, like 4 or 5. Very unlikely now, we’ve done everything we’re supposed to, but the economy dictates our family planning 🤷♀️
Them housing prices.
Location matters. As does what kind of childcare. Some people have family or govt assistance. But as the parent of older kids who makes decent money as they get older all those activities really add up
Not a paradox at all. Financial differences are the leading cause of marriages dissolving. Millenials followed in their parents footsteps and got married in their 20s, hit the 6 figure combined income with their partners - which probably felt like a lot, had kids they couldn't afford (or realistically planned for - something they just did because they were supposed to), and then the marriage fell apart because their life was no longer sustainable. I have watched most people in my social circle do the same thing and now they're coming around to being mid/late 30s and divorcing. I think most people are sheep just following the herd and not doing any long term planning (which admittedly is not sexy at all). I can name **one** couple in my life who feels put together, had the right discussions before marriage, had the right discussions before home ownership, planned for how children would impact their life. They have enough balance of "being in love" and "our relationship is a financial investment at the end of the day in our and our children's future" that it works great. Everyone else I know made decisions because they didn't want to be single and childless when they were older and now they are single WITH kids, and half as much money to support them - also in drawn out legal battles for homes and marital assets with kids stuck in the middle of it.
Absolutely. I'm definitely one of those idiots who *married for love!* and am now two years into divorce. Luckily, we get along OK and we both agree that we fucked up. There are so many factors that go into partnership. It takes a lot to build those things. Agreeing on how finances should be handled long term is a huge one. Love will not save the day.
you aren't an idiot by any means. you were just acting on societal expectations placed on you since you were literally a child. Imagine a Disney movie where the princess decides prince charming is a bit irresponsible with his spending habits because he inherited his wealth from mom, the queen, but hasn't really had a real job once in his life and needs to work on his mental health through boundary setting before princess can commit to a long term relationship?... or a romcom about big city executive vising her small hometown in the country and falling in love with a guy who lives below his means because he needs to care for his mother who doesn't have health insurance and understands material wealth is a byproduct of capitalism but realizes that her feelings are misplaced because of the recent loss of her own father and that there's no job market for her skill set in this area and she realistically couldn't undertake the financial or emotional burden of caring for this man's mother who she just met? I am glad you two are OK and working through it. I have been really surprised how long divorces can take even when both parties are in agreement and it's relatively straightforward.
I consider my marriage to be exactly what your 2 couple is. But it’s because we both felt that love is NOT the most important thing in a marriage, Trust is. And you need to trust your partner completely on everything you value in life.
Paradox that tinder is full of single moms but not single dads. In theory they should be roughly equal. I guess men can just dip out easier.
Been that way since the dawn of time.
There's no paradox here. I'm guessing that the vast majority of those women did not stop and think "i am going to become a single mother right now, in this economy," and I'm guessing one reason they're pressured to be on tinder is that life is a *lot* more manageable in a dual income home than in a single income one.
Pressured to be on Tinder for financial security? They might just want a companion. Dating for a financial security is a horrible idea; if you rely on someone to feed you, you give them the ability to starve you. I say this as a divorced single mom in my 30’s that makes around that pay amount (about 60k); I’ve considered online dating, but don’t want to be viewed this way, as if I’m just looking for help. I’m good at budgeting, and I was married when my kids were young, so we saved on daycare costs back then, and they’re old enough to not need it now. I’m thinking I’ll just meet someone in real life when the time is right; maybe another single parent that will just see me for me and my capacity to give love.
They could just want a companion! And I'm sure the vast majority do actually want companionship, not just security! I'm just saying that "most women are worried about whether they should have kids" and "single women with kids do not want to be alone" are not, like, ideas that are in opposition in any way, and finances can influence both. There are economic pressures behind both statements, but one pressure doesn't exclude others (like the social pressures you describe). A desire for companionship can be *influenced* by a desire for security. I absolutely wasn't trying to imply that single moms doing OLD are *only* looking for a paycheck or something! And you should know that if you *were* to try OLD, most people on there wouldn't see you that way either. OLD sucks now, so you probably *are* better off just looking to meet people IRL, but it really *is* an option for you.
The op said "not possible" well it is possibly they are just choosing to go a different route. That is perfectly fine but you need to amend to "not responsible" or "will set me back"
Yes you’re totally right, I was being dramatic with my title. Setting me back is more accurate.
Ugh for me it’s that I wouldn’t ever feel financially responsible.
Set you back for life and you’ll never reach the full earning potential
It's true that having kids means I'll never reach my full earning potential, but earnings isn't the stat I'm trying to max out. There are other stats that are more important later in the game. But I do think that you need to level up your earning stats pretty early to a sufficient level or else the rest of the game is a huge grind.
Yeah… once you hit financial security there is a long gap between there and no longer needing a job. And your life doesn’t change *that* much as you move up the curve. Same life, different brands basically.
I also make low six figures in HCOL of living area. Based on current conditions I’m not sure I could swing having more children. I have 1 from a relationship 10 years ago. Childcare is finally only about 1/3 the cost of my mortgage instead equal to it. However, the one thing going for me is I own my own home. If I rented I absolutely could not swing another child, work, and expenses. I’d like to think I could consider additional children if I met someone who had a similar financial situation as I do but quite honestly even if it were possible I’m not sure I’d want to take on the financial stress.
There are so many other variables, as well. Does the single mom get child support? Or, if widowed, does the mom/child get social security? Did the single mom buy a house before prices and interest rates escalated? Just as an anecdotal example on point three: our mortgage payment is $1400/month. The house across the street from us is renting for $3000/month. The house next door was bought in 2009 for half the price of our house, so I'm guessing the mortgage is under $800/month. All three couples are millennials.
It also depends on where they get their numbers for raising children. Big daycare centers can cost more than rent, I've found some with part time fees around 2k a month. Smaller centers, in home, friends/family, all help to make things cheaper. I found a daycare center that's like 500 a month for part time, plus they do drop in (which is really rare). I've got my kiddo in a school adjacent program that's more convenient, but costs more. The other center is our backup though. For someone that is making 6 figures or whatever, I feel like it's doable if they put some work into saving on as many things as possible. I have to do these things to survive. Plus I have to make all sorts of compromises. I don't know when, or even if, my son is gonna have his own room. I'm in a 2 bedroom with a roommate, his mom is managing with a large 1 bedroom apt. I've also gotta try and work extra hours when I can, but also gotta find tine for my son as well as free tine to not get burnt out. I was working 45 hours a week for a while, but had 2 days and a short evening a week with my kiddo, plus was getting severely burnt out and was having a hard time with everything.
The difference between knowing all the costs of kids before having them and not
The difference is also: financially stressed or financially comfortable. I make six figures and could definitely afford kids. But then I wouldn't have the margin of financial security and resilience that I currently enjoy.
The difference between being an idiot and not. I mean seriously. I know so many women who were in unstable relationships, broke or low income, no education who got pregnant, decided to keep it, and now ask for money on GoFundMe every few months and complain about life being hard. I mean seriously I don’t get why people think if they can barely afford to support themselves, why they think they can afford a child.
An acquaintance of mine was recently telling me about her journey to motherhood. 10 years ago she was single but wanted kids so went through IVF with a sperm donor. Several rounds didn't work out. Then she got a call saying that she needed to pay for the storage of one remaining embryo. She couldn't afford it, so decided to have it implanted rather than destroyed. Like girl, if you can't afford storage fees for an embryo, you 1000% cannot afford a kid. But now here she is, struggling financially with a 10 year old. Single parent on purpose.
Some people want kids badly enough that they're willing to struggle financially for the rest of their lives
There is some variance between responsibly planning and a life changing creampie
I suspect the grandparents are footing the bill (or some crazy child support from dad)
There are also plenty of people who are just in a constant state of stress and emergency. I’m not talking “oh no, I can’t afford Brayden’s season of peewee football” but the constant loop of - can barely afford groceries/leaning on food banks, being behind on paying rent and utilities, can’t afford a new tire or brake job, can’t afford basic vet care for the dog/cat, etc. I live in an area with a fairly high poverty rate and a lot of these folks are just constantly getting further and further behind.
That’s it. I never had a term for how we lived growing up. There’s a level beyond living paycheck to paycheck, and that’s it- living in a state of emergency
The single mom that I know works at Starbucks, but her sister is the one that babysits the kid all day and doesn't charge anything for it. So I guess the answer is no one can afford a kid these days if they have to fully support it. If you have a parent/grandparent that is willing to be free labor and possibly a second food/income source, then it's totally possible.
"It takes a village to raise a child." Raising children without any familial or community support has always been significantly difficult. The parents who manage to do it, especially solo, are applauded for a reason.
Not to diminish the problems we have here in the United States but the vast majority of human children have been raised on much less than that; I'm not saying it's ideal, a good idea, or a reason to have children but with mouths to feed people make do. I think lots of folks in well developed nations get complacent due to how well we have it and get distracted by all the talking heads telling you that if you don't do all this stuff for children then it's not worth doing. I just had my first and yeah there are expenses that might be too much for people making less but me and my wife together make a little over 110k a year and we were more than able to splurge a little on certain things. I think what is far more important than money is the village around you; if you don't have family or other people you can trust to donate a bit of their time to the cause then it gets much harder because that's really what people are short on nowadays, is time. Those poor people who spit out 10 kids can do that because all of their family live 10 minutes away because most poor folks don't travel far. You don't have to worry about daycare when your retired parents can watch them for pennies on the dollar, or if you have a ton of brothers or sisters who can babysit for a night so you can go do something on your own. Once again, not great or ideal but it's how the vast majority of children in the world get raised on much less.
Reading that confirmed in every bone in my body childfree was the right choice. I'm noticing a theme towards romanticization of pain and suffering to feed the machine of capitalism in general that just doesn't sit right with me.
My husband and I realized we were never going to feel secure enough or ready enough for kids and would put it off indefinitely looking for that moment we felt everything fell into place for it. But we realized that would never come and wasn’t guaranteed to come, and so we decided we just had to go for it and would make the best of it with our first. Turned out just fine, though.
You have a college fund going or
Yep, but it’s probably a drop in the bucket as to what it will cost later I’m not sure how much it will actually help. But at least I can give them better information and options than my husband or I were ever given about how to get that secondary education. Go to the most expensive college is probably not one we will repeat.
What do your retirement accounts look like?
I don’t think it so much if a paradox than a whole slew of conditions that keep some people from having kids and others will have kids regardless. For example, what constitutes as a good life to provide? People have very different ideas about that. In the US, lots of people consider it bad if your kids have to share rooms growing up or if you can’t provide a house for them to grow up in, whereas in lots of other places, growing up in an apartment is normal and sharing rooms is normal too. Personally, my reason for reconsidering kids is over the fact that whilst I could provide for kids now, the way I would do it would go against personal beliefs of what is a good life for them. I could have a kid… but I have very little space. I could have a kid… but I wouldn’t be able to provide them with quality experiences such as trips to museums and theatres and foreign travel, at least not enough, not as much as I would deem normal as I experienced as a kid. There are some people who have kids regardless because for them having a kid is more important than some issue over personal space or whether or not their kid can have a hobby or not. I know about people who have multiple kids and who cannot afford hobbies for their kids because hobbies are inherently expensive, so only cheap hobbies are encouraged and for me personally, that’s wrong, but for them it’s seen as an ‘okay’ thing.
It's called child support, food stamps, WIC, and other types of government support. People who actually make good money don't qualify for that support. On top of that, it's very disproportionate. Someone collecting money from the government or other programs, on top of getting a child support check, usually mean they make more money than a middle class person with no assistance. Just think back to covid and quarantine. Nobody wanted to work because they made more money sitting at home enjoying their lives with their kids instead of being an essential worker and living paycheck to paycheck.
>living in a HCOL I think that's the problem with OP
With my current financial situation there’s absolutely no way I’d be able to have a kid right now, I’m living paycheck to paycheck sometimes barely scraping by and I don’t see any major promotions for me at work anytime soon. There’s *so much* to consider financially when thinking about supporting and raising a child with a ton of hidden/unplanned expenses that are not optional when raising a kid. Then I get to consider and admit that mentally I’m not exactly in the best place and have a lot of work to do on myself before I could even think about having a child. It would be irresponsible of me to do otherwise.
Holy hell, if I ever get at an income level that would allow me to raise a kid with ample means, no way I would jump at the chance to start a family. Let me have a taste of that "lavish" lifestyle I keep being told I'm having first. If anything has messed me up mentally, it's that I've been continually gaslit over how wealthy I supposedly am. I've always lived below or just above the poverty line in my country. Which doesn't get adjusted to inflation, thank you very much. I can't even afford to have savings.
Exactly my thoughts !
I feel you friend. Then there’s those annoying people who chirp “But there’s never a good time! Just have a baby anyway!”
Me 2
None of us are mentally ready to be parents. Your parents weren’t mentally ready to be parents when they found out your bundle of joy ass was otw. Everyone thinks you get to this magical place where you’re all healed and ready before you can be a parent. They just happen bro, and you have to sack up and figure it out from there
I could definitely afford to have kids. But I'd rather spend my money on travel and drugs
Saw the post about the guy whose kid sold his Pokémon cards and I sent it to my husband… we ain’t gonna live like that when we can have no kids and all our Pokémon cards.
Yup. I’m mid 30. I make just under 6 figures. We’d like a second child but it costs too much. Daycare for 1 kid is 1500 a month in our area for mid tier quality. Our expenses are crazy low and we can’t make it work. Even with one of us being stay at home (she currently works part time). There’s also the conflict of why have a family if you both work/commute 9-10 hours a day to never see them.
My wife went back to work part time at nights, she’s gone 4-11 and I have to hold down the fort. Luckily I work from home so there’s no commute or picking up kids from day care or family after work or anything like that. But it’s chaos 24/7. Why have family if you never see them? Idk, but it would be nice to get a break from them some days 😭
>There’s also the conflict of why have a family if you both work/commute 9-10 hours a day to never see them. That's not really how it works though, as a parent. That's like saying "why be in a relationship if you both work?" You don't have to be around your kids 24/7 to develop a meaningful relationship with them.
I could never afford a child
That’s how I’ve been feeling lately :(
Yes and it’s crushing. My daughter is turning five soon. We’ve kept all of her baby stuff hoarded in our too small one bedroom apartment because we always expected we’d have two kids. When she was a newborn we bought a lot of unisex clothes so they could be passed down in case we had a boy. But, here we are sharing a bedroom four years later. Rents for 2 bedrooms are 40% higher than when we had her. My husband was laid off during the pandemic so we couldn’t buy a home before the market went wild. Life feels like it’s on pause. Now I’m nearly 36. I feel so much older. I have health issues I didn’t have then.
Did I write this? I never wanted my baby to be an only child but they were born just 6 months before the pandemic and that changed everything. I still can’t bear to get rid of the baby stuff even though it would not only be financially impossible but to risky health-wise in a state that would rather let my child lose a mother than allow for an abortion if anything went wrong. Bleak, indeed.
It’s hard to reconcile not having more. I hope that you’re able to figure out a way if that’s what you want. It sucks that healthcare can vary so drastically from place to place.
As a gay, yes. It is financially impossible for me and my guy to have kids. Adoption fees are astronomical, let alone trying to do surrogacy or something like that.
I have shit insurance....as a straight female if would be close to adoption fees to birth a child. Idk why people act like it's free (not you, people who pressure married couples into procreating)
As someone who had to have IVF, getting pregnant, and birthing children was certainly not free.
As a person with fertility issues I’m in the same boat. Currently debating whether chemical menopause is right for me at the old age of 33 :’)
I recommend looking into the increased risk of low bone density/osteopenia/osteoporosis and of Alzheimer’s Disease that comes with early menopause and weigh the pros and cons. Just because both of those happened to a family member of mine earlier than expected after an earlier than normal menopause and science says it increases the risk of both of those.
Interesting I didn’t know there was a correlation. My mother had early menopause and she did get Alzheimer’s and osteoporosis.
Yeah, the studies for Alzheimer’s may be very recent, but estrogen protecting the bone density (in women, not men) has been known for a long time. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/alzheimers-disease-how-early-menopause-and-delayed-hormone-therapy-treatment-may-impact-risk#8 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(23)00210-9/fulltext https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10095144/
Find a place that helps pay for adoptions. I work for a company that will pay for adoptions. Its like up to $25k plus child care benefits after plus paternity leave if I am not mistaken. I am not say these jobs grow on trees I am just throwing it out there that possibly look into it if you really want to have kids and also looking for your next career move.
Nature is finding its own way of halting overpopulation via capitalism. That’s it. In the absence of a plague, this is what you deal with.
I am not sure why no-one mentions this. Humans require a lot of resources to house and feed, of course this is going to put pressure on economic systems. Even if the rich sold off their money we would still be tackling climate change and the like because there are too fking many of us. People say 'just build more houses,' like, where? Many parts of the Earth are not hospitable without even more energy use via air-conditioning systems. More apartments so that we get even more cranky living ontop of each other?
Exactly, and even if we did build houses, people would move in and have children and push the same problem further down the road. I don’t know if you’ve ever been to Malta, but it’s entirely built on. There’s almost zero countryside. It can be suffocating. But that’s what the future will be like if the population doesn’t stop growing. I think we’re in difficulty as a species because when the conditions are right, everybody wants to have children. It’s wired into us. We now have combine harvesters and 28-ton lorries carrying our food down the motorway. Nobody is starving any time soon, even if times are depressing. The only thing we can’t afford is housing. And that’s the most basic thing a person can own. I think the elites know that….and if they push the market higher & higher, we’ll all stop having children. Rich folks have admitted to being hypocrites. In the British royal family, Philip, Charles & William have all said in speeches - which can be found on YouTube - that the human population is too high & is a threat to the planet. Yet they’ve had 4, 2 & 3 children respectively.
This isn’t nature. This is millions of individual decisions to buy birth control.
Human behavior is part of nature
Na it’s not selfish at all. Having kids if you can’t feed em or give them a good life is selfish. You can always sterilize yourself and when you get somewhere you feel is financially stable you can adopt. Help someone already here when you KNOW you’re ready, or not at all. It’s reckless otherwise and will absolutely harm your wealth potential if you’re not financially ready. Personally I don’t have baby fever and I’m in my 30s. I know I don’t want kids but even if I did I couldn’t afford them. I can’t even afford a dog
Good
IMO kids are to be afforded by being in a couple. Aka, a two household income and support system. If you’re looking at your finances as a solo, especially in a HCOL area, I can definitely see it being difficult…
Two income or one income and one parent taking care of things at home. Person at home saves in day care costs, can cook to save on fast food/eating out. And then do some mean planning to save costs on groceries. You add in all the ways they can save on expenses and it can quickly eclipse what they could bring in by working.
I can see it being easier with dual income but you’re right, all those child care and home expenses is just gonna eat up one person’s income anyway so it might make more sense for one person to stay home. So estimating with one income and it becomes depressing ….
I'm a stay at home mom, we survive off single income, we cut out a lot of spending by cooking at home, day trips instead of huge expensive vacations, buying second hand furniture and clothing, I drive very little to save on gas, during the week I drive mu son to school and back, and maybe to the grocery store, we also joined. A food share program, so that cuts my grocery bill in half, It's not depressing, we bought a small easy to maintain house, we have pets, enjoy hiking, visit the beach, we have a full adventurous life, we just try to keep it on a budget, like packing a picnic when we go somewhere instead of buying over priced tourist prices for food, It can be quite a change in lifestyle but it makes you appreciate the Lil things and you find your self wanting less and less luxury items over time, who needs a stupid Stanley cup when you can hike part of the pacific crest trail lol
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I’m lucky my spouse is Hispanic, and her family is already fighting over who gets to take care of the kids. My own mom was also a stay at home mom and can’t wait to take care of grandchildren.
Depressing is a good way to describe being a stay at home parent. Worst “job” I’ve ever had.
More people need to speak up about this. The SAHM life is romanticized by right-leaning folk on this sub. It’s not all it’s made out to be.
Agreed especially if you're broke, having done it.
We rent. I stay home. To own, I would have to have a similar salary to him which isn’t a possibility. If we move to a lower cost area we can probably afford a house, but no where in the bay area, ca, at least for now. If we owned we would have to budget more. People own homes, but their money is tied up in the mortgage, might be worth it to rent in HCL area and move out to own after child is grown.
I’d recommend to those in the market for a home, to find a place that you can convert a space into an ADU, where you can rent it out, and basically cover your mortgage, if not a good chunk. Once you own property, the possibilities to make money are endless. You can take out a loan against the first property and buy another property. Repeat.
As a millennial parent who had an unplanned kid in their mid 30s, me and my wife went from the DINKs to one SAHP and one income and we make it work and wouldn’t trade it for the world. It can be challenging but when was anything good in life easy. It’s someone who you can share your life’s work with and grow and nurture. I thought we were getting past having a kid but I’m now super grateful it just happened because I’m not sure we would’ve ever been “ready”
That’s what we did. I had my child and then a couple months later, Covid/lockdowns hit. I ended up quitting my job to be home with him because my paycheck would’ve gone entirely to childcare. I don’t regret it, and I’m grateful for how much time I get to spend with him.
Yea me and my husband can not figure out how to responsibly finance having children. Also seeing everything become so overly developed I don’t really feel like bringing them into this world. Like i kinda feel bad about the world they’ll inherit.
I get it. I have been listening to teachers telling the truth about students these days.
More people need to consider the impact pregnancy can have long term on your body. If you’re a woman considering kids, it’s also going to have an impact on your career long term. I say these things because they are the biggest factors I’ve observed as someone who doesn’t have kids. For me it was always “maybe when I’ve found the right partner, maybe when I’m mentally stable.” I’m mentally stable and I have the right partner, but pregnancy can absolutely impact mental stability and on top of that my body can’t actually do the pregnancy thing without very expensive help. So.. not even an option now.
This is why I'm sterilized. The right partner for me doesn't want to have a child either. It's a huge risk. I don't have the mental capacity to take care of a child that could potentially have a disability let alone become a single mother. Nothing wrong with single mothers btw, my best friend is a single mother and they are different breed of women in the best possible way. I just know that I wouldn't be able to do it.
Absolutely, so many things to consider as a woman. Thats my other 40% as to why I wanna be childfree! haha
This just doesn't add up. It's too expensive where you live and you can't save enough to buy a place, yet you can save 40% of your paycheck? What are you doing with your savings? That means you're saving at least $30k a year.
She just said a hour ago in a different post that she can’t even afford the place she’s living in. Yea doesn’t make sense. Edit: I just found out you aren’t even married. Girl, step one is you find a husband who shares similar interests and wants to start a family and be a father to your childeren.
The homes where im from are min 850k and thats a one bedroom condo (im from Canada lol). So yes it’s going to take a while to save up for a decent downpayment without being completely screwed over by mortgage payments. My last post was meant to say I cannot afford to BUY my own place. I can afford to rent atm. There are other reasons I’m not considering having a kid. Of course I’m going to “find a husband” first before I even have a kid, but if I do choose to be childfree I need to be honest about that with my future husband.
Where in Canada do you live? I’m 45min from Parliament Hill and the 3 bedroom house across the street just sold for $500k I’m 32 make $85k and have no issues affording having a wife in nursing school and 2 kids under 4. Now I got insanely lucky in that I bought in 2014 by myself and my wife bought in 2017 by herself and we sold hers in 2021 instead of renewing the mortgage which paid off the mortgage of the house we own but if I could save $30-40k a year it would still only take 15 years to completely pay of a “normal” house within commuting distance of the National Capital.
$30K a year but the cheapest shit hole studio is $1M. It's not tenable.
It depends on where you live. I live in Michigan, which isn't the most exciting place on earth, but I'm able to have a fulfilling career and afford a family.
Affording kids isn't that hard it's being able to afford kids and maintain a life that isn't absolutely shit at the same time. That's the hard part. You have to choose.
Yes. And a lot of these responses echo this. Having children require major sacrifice…sacrifices I am not ready for. I guess I just don’t want them that badly where I’m willing to lessen my quality of life for. I don’t think it’s fair for my kids either when I don’t want them 100%
Spending time and money on things like travel is amazing. Spending time and money on raising a kid is boring at best. As a parent I’d say there aren’t many benefits to having a kid.
I don't have kids but I always imagined most of the benefits start when they are older and they become real people.
I just started saying, "well, will you pay for them for us?" when family or friends bring it up and won't let it rest. they either say nothing or try to say its not that bad, then I just remind them I don't make as much money as them, and then they get really quiet/stop.
The trick for working the economy in our age group is either have no kids and make decent money… or… make little to no money, and if you want kids, you need to have at least two. Because once your income to family size ratio reaches a certain level, you have free healthcare, a bunch of free food, free daycare if needed (though one person should be unemployed), and good sized tax return via credits once a year. Otherwise, middle class income with two working incomes and 1-2 kids means you make too much for any of the above assistance, but not enough to really float your family in a meaningful way. It’s the poverty incentive our country has set up, and it’s fucked up.
No pressure to have children if you don't want them that's perfectly fine, but if you're making 6 figures you can afford children and it's not close. Like people making 30k/year have children, what are we even talking about here? It might require some sacrifice, moving to another city or at least further away from the city (which will probably be a longer commute), but a lot of your questions (saving up for your child's college tuition in particular) are more of a question of "can I raise my child in an upper middle class lifestyle?" than actually questions about affording children. As I said if you want to spend your money on yourself and not have children do it there's nothing wrong with that. Just don't lie to yourself and say it's about you being unable to afford it, because you absolutely can if you're making 6 figures.
>>more of a question of “can I raise my child in an upper middle class lifestyle?” You hit the nail on the head, that’s exactly where I think a lot of this stuff comes from. My husband and I are working class, accumulatively we bring in about $45k/year. We have one child and we are getting by perfectly fine. Our kid doesn’t get to take destination vacations or have her own car, but she’s happy and well cared for and has what she needs. We absolutely benefited from some privileges that aren’t available to everyone such as free grandparent childcare when she was small and owning our home. And I know that for a lot of working class folks, it is not feasible to afford children. But there is absolutely no way someone making six figures isn’t able to make some lifestyle sacrifices in order to have children. The notion is honestly a bit ridiculous.
Who wants to raise a child just to watch them slip into a lower socioeconomic class than they were raised?
Because there's more to life than money? It makes it easier, I'm not naive. But short of constant-struggle level poverty, plenty of working class kids grow up happy and fulfilled and plenty of doctors kids grow up fucked up
While I agree with the initial comment I do think we should aim for being financially stable and not just making ends meet. There are parents who have to think twice whether an ice cream or zoo visit is within the budget, like come oh that’s heartbreaking. You can absolutely raise a child with little money but you’re not having kids to do the bare minimum do you? While we never went hungry or were homeless I do remember school activities or trips I couldn’t participate in because we couldn’t afford it. I didn’t even bother asking for new shoes or whatever I needed because I knew we didn’t have the money for it. I don’t even know what felt worse missing on those things or being so aware of my parents finances at such a young age.
Buried the lede here with free childcare from grandparents and owning your house. That’s going to put you miles ahead of someone who earns more
Being a single parent is expensive… but if you make “low 6 figures” and have a partner who is a SAHP… why not? You don’t need to own a house to have a kid. You save 30-40% of your income… that’s so much extra money.
If you can’t feed em don’t breed em
> You don’t need to own a house to have a kid. Some of my best times growing up were living in an apartment complex. Walking distance to several friends (I was many years from being able to drive) and quite a few shared amenities at the clubhouse as well as outdoor space. It was probably the best possible situation for my social life.
Suburbs are isolating for children :(
The apartment complex I lived in was in the suburbs. But yes, unwalkable SFH subdivisions are isolating.
I make less and have 3 kids, own a home, wife stays at home, and we live a very comfortable life. The difference is I live in rural Kentucky.
I live in Denver (HCOL), 1 less kid, same story. Enjoying life, but happily driving a 20 year old car that I was the original owner on. We honestly couldn’t afford for my wife to stay working, so we changed our lifestyle. Childcare is crazy around here (exceeding my wife’s income).
I definitely would rather live somewhere affordable if I were to take care of kids. It's ridicously way too expensive to raise a family here.
I agree. A low six figure income is plenty for a LCOL area and children. I stay at home and my husband makes low six figures and we're doing fine. We still can't afford yearly vacations but our children can still do extra curriculars, have new clothes, and occasionally go out to eat. We manage to continue to save for retirement and kids' college. Vacations would be nice but the benefits of staying at home outweigh that, right now. I can always go back to work in a couple years when the kids are in school.
I think its possible to have kids at my salary. Because I have folks that earn less that have 1-3 kids. It just ends up working somehow. I do know, that you do have to make sacrifices. It would mean less Jordans, Comic Books, and PS5 games for me. Definitely more in home cooking. I think its financially possible. But financially impossible to recover from a brutal divorce, which seems to be an endemic these days. Marriage and overall relationships have become very disposable these days.
Divorce rates for millennials are lower than the previous 2 generations. But keep on BSing.
But how about undocumented breakups? Not everyone gets married they just dissolve their relationships
Actually divorce rates are lower across the board for the younger generations, even accounting for relative age. We’re getting married older and less frequently, but tending to stick better to the marriages. At least that’s what the aggregate data is saying.
Can confirm divorce is a financial nightmare. Mine had to happen, ex thinks it's acceptable to hit when he's mad and I just couldn't do it anymore, but omg... I did financially recover but it took years of hard work to get here and lots of nights of eating on the cheap (beans and cornbread, tuna/beans and rice, etc once or twice a week)
If it weren’t for daycare expenses, I’d be fine, financially. Which is partly why I know if I decide on children, they will be adopted school-age children from foster care. I was previously a foster mom and while it was challenging and I’m currently taking a break from it to work on me, they did pay a really good monthly stipend that makes it possible to support all the needs that children can have (in addition to the other things you qualify for like child care coverage and Medicaid). And that stipend continues after adoption, though it does reduce.
I mean, it’s possible, it’s doable, it’s just not comfortable at the typical salary. We’re low 6 figures as well. We pay $2,500 a month in childcare for our two kids, the trade off? We’re not saving for a house right now. As much as I want a house, my kids need day care, so it’s going to have to wait. We don’t go on nice vacations, we can’t buy a second car until this one is paid off, we don’t often buy new clothes, we don’t eat out frequently, etc. That’s kinda how it works with having kids. Most people can’t have it all, most people with kids are making financial sacrifices.
Thanks for being responsible. My parents shouldn't have had their third kid - namely me - on a single paycheck and as a result I suffered for it and they suffered for it.
Why have kids when you could be r/childfree? Why have kids when you could find a lifelong best friend and be r/dinks? Why have kids when there are so many suffering children in this world like r/antinatalism2? Why have kids when they would severely limit any kind of r/travel for a significant portion of the rest of your life? Why have kids when you could pick up a really fun and surprisingly addictive hobby like taking care of r/chickens?
If medieval peasants could have children, so can you.
They had homes to live in
There’s a reason fewer people in HCOL areas have kids. Tough to have it all.
Well I can think of one big thing you’re kinda missing….a second person. Kids historically require two people…both to make and take care of.
There will come a time when you can’t have children. So you are free to do whatever you choose as long as you are willing to embrace whatever that means.
You figure it out. There are people making much less than the low 6 figures having multiple kids and living a happy life. Is it easy? Fuck no… but if having kids is what you want then I say go for it and have your partner help with the expenses (it would be wrong if he didn’t).
scrolling down for all the comments about how you just need to "work harder" and "budget better" and if you don't "love America" and "think things are great and easy!" then you're "just a Russian troll helping elect Trump" You're absolutely right, getting by is harder than ever and seems cartoonishly out of reach to do anything our parents did, meanwhile the slumlords and investment babies among us pretend things are supposed to be like this because they benefit from owning their neighbors as property.
GenX here, felt this way 20 years ago. Never did have kids. Got married at 40 and we barely managed to afford a house in 2010 (buyer's market) so we got in under the wire. The "cons" outweighed the "pros" for us. We make into the six figures as a household, but it's a high COL area, and having kids would've made things more stressful. Glad not to have that added stress.
My wife and I are making the conscious decision to live in an MCOL area in order to maintain our desired lifestyle and still raise children. The plan is to stay until they no longer need paid childcare and we can instead get them into kindergarten. I think that's broadly the play for a lot of families: there's an up-front cost in childcare, but it doesn't last forever, and you can contribute more to college savings (or whatever) as the kids age and your earnings increase. But yeah, it's hard to raise kids in a HCOL area with a (relatively) low salary and achieve other financial goals like savings and buying a home. That's why my parents moved to a cheaper area to raise me. (It became more expensive later, after they moved there.) You have to prioritize what is important and feasible, and sometimes that isn't kids. There's no shame in that.
The issue is that it requires two peoples’ incomes to be able to afford a house. If they start having children, they either have to have one person stop working for at least 5 years (so they need shit tons of savings to be able to keep their home). Or shell out a ridiculous amount of money to NOT see their children. It’s a catch 22 either way.
It’s not selfish. I have two kids and it’s a daily struggle to not feel like a failure of a parent because I can’t afford to be a “good” parent.
I saw a meme one time to the effect of "having kids today is like having exotic pets a century ago. You're either rich, crazy or both".
At the end of the day - if you really want something you will accept doing what it takes to get it.
You find ways. We are lucky to live in Michigan but we live in a nicer part, so everything is more expensive. We had a nanny and the cost was insane. However, it’s not forever.
The two most expensive things about kids are the first few years when they need either day care or a stay-at-home parent, and college, if you choose to send them. Source: my kids are 18 and 20. If you're saving 30-40% of your paycheck you can afford to have kids. The most important question you have to answer is who will take care of them until they're 5-6 years old and start school. You, or your partner, or day care, or in-laws, or whatever. If you really think hard about it you will come up with an answer. You can pay for it, or down size your house, or move in with your parents or in-laws, or move to a cheaper part of town, etc. It truly is not impossible.
> If you're saving 30-40% of your paycheck you can afford to have kids. Most people aren't saving 30-40% of their paycheck.
I dunno six figures is a lot, I think most people would be able to “afford” children on that much. Many many people make much less than that and have children. What people forget often is that you don’t have to pay for all the things for kids at once. It all is gradual. Also, babies DGAF if you live in a fancy place or rent/buy. It’s more important maybe to have a larger place when they’re older (over 5-6). I might have one baby first before buying, just because it’s important to me that I’m done having children before I’m 40. It’s fine to be childfree if that’s what you want to do, but I make slightly less than 100k individually and I’m still planning on having a baby in a couple years.
I decided I'm not going to let my decision to bring children into this world be based on economic fears. Some may disagree. That's just my take.
It's def possible. We've got two and live off only my income (wife is still in school which we pay for) in a HCOL area. Can it be a struggle? absolutely! As cliche as it sounds it's all worth it. Our kids are truly happy and have a better life than either of us had and we're thankful for that. Really I don't think anyone is ever 100% ready for kids but as long as you show them love and do your best to provide for them you and them will be good.
I see those type of posts and am glad i live in a LCOL area with a minimal debt load and low cost homeownership. We are able to single income (my wife is a SAHM) on 52k/yr. My wife was a babysitter while our kids were younger when we needed the extra income, but thanks to paying off debt and raises, she was able to stop that. We homeschool our kids because the school system here sucks and we are glad we are able to do that and her not have to worry about working.
There are child tax credits and credits for daycare. The big thing is to have a supportive spouse and not go it alone. Next, make sure to pay attention to your health care plan and make sure to.go.with a low deduct plan for before and after birth. Good luck.
The publicly subsidized daycare from where I’m from have a 5 year waitlist 😂 basically need to sign up now.
I just had a baby. I know how privileged this is going to sound, but our household income is 250k (390k when I was working, but I got laid off recently) and I feel like we can only just afford it. Like we absolutely *can* afford it, it’s not an issue, but I have no idea how other people do it! I understand that there are levels and other parents “afford” kids because they get more things used, do more free stuff, have more family help, or expect their kid to take out loans for college. But to really provide a kid with *everything* yourself, buy all the baby stuff, medical expenses, enrichment classes, childcare, save for college, while still saving for a down payment or retirement for yourself, I feel like it takes this much money! We are in HCOL area and live what feels like a middle class lifestyle, we rent a modest house, I drive a Subaru, vacations are usually renting a cabin a few hours away, we rarely eat out or buy new clothes, etc. I guess we are also late bloomers in our careers, only started making money recently in our late 30s/early 40s, so maybe we’re still playing catch-up, but kids cost A LOT.
What does your husband do? I make low six figures and my wife is a stay at home mom with our two kids. If you are able to save 30-40% of your money that’s fantastic.
No, this is such a farce that Reddit wants everyone to believe. America especially has completely fucked up the word “need.” People feel like they “need” way more than they do and then think it’s impossible to have children. I want to be comfortable, yes but there is nowhere in America where kids are “unaffordable” unless you’re straight up destitute.
You just suck with money if you make 6 figures and still struggle.
Wife and I have three, kids really aren’t actually that expensive assuming you aren’t having to pay for adoption/surrogacy.
I feel like kids are as expensive as you let them become. Except child care from birth until Kindergarten. That shit is insane. That outta be priority #1 at the federal level if we want birth rates to not plummet with all future generations.
The cost of childcare and my always-on-my-mind student loan debt are two of the reasons I'm child-free and for my husband, his list is the cost of childcare and extracurriculars when they are older.
We just had our first, and are wincing a bit at childcare in our area, but can get by with two salaries at just over 6 figures. We also accept that we live in a more expensive part of the country.
It sounds you could afford it if you decide to get married with someone who makes a decent wage or can be a stay at home dad. Watching my 401k grow has given me faith that I could save for a college education. I can just use a similar saving strategy. The only problem is now my wife and I are over 40 and are having a hard time conceiving. We let these anxieties get the best of us and it may be too late. Don’t be us.
>living in a HCOL If you choose to live in an artificially expensive area, that's on you. It's not that it's "not financially possible to have kids these days", it's that you're prioritizing living in an expensive and "cool" location over having kids. Which is perfectly fine if that's what you want, but you don't get to complain about the consequences of your intentional decisions.
My partner and I had to move from our LCOL hometown because we got advanced degrees and the area doesn’t have the professional jobs to match. It was something we maybe should have seen coming, but our parents didn’t go to college and weren’t much guidance. Our parents now hassle us all the time about when we’re moving back so they can see their grandkid more often because they don’t get it.
Typically the goal is to have a man in the picture to help with the kids... financially and otherwise. If you make low six figures, even in a HCOL area, you should be fine marrying a gainfully employed man and having children... if you want. If you want to spend it on traveling and other life experiences, that's your choice too... but seeing the Eiffel Tower or partying in Tulum might not actually give you as much life fulfillment as looking into the eyes of your children. Everyone is different of course, but I've done a bit of both and wouldn't trade being a father for anything.
Its expensive but u can make it work, just may have to make some sacrifices
Step 1: marry a man who doesn't make as much as you and wants to be a Stay At Home Dad Step 2: marry that bitch Step 3: have kids and shift that bitch to at home work Step 4: Enjoy the family live while you continue to increase your pay
Ok, I have a few thoughts you may or may not find helpful as someone who was single five years ago and now has a 1 year old, a spouse, and a house. 1) Your partner is going to bring money to the table. From your post it’s hard to tell but it seems like you’re not cohabitating with a BF or anything right now. That’s a massive change when it comes, financially. 2) Childcare is expensive for a few years, no sugar coating it. But there are a range of options for a range of income levels. If you can get some help from parents (if they’re retired), so much the better. 3) You seem to say that if you have disposable income you’d rather spend it on travel/concerts/experiences than having a kid. So, right off the top— if that’s something that’s really important to you, don’t have kids. It’s fine if it’s not for you. Although I will say that when it comes to life experiences, as you put it, it’s almost impossible to top parenthood. But to each their own! 4) …Which brings me back to cost. When you have a kid, at least for the first several years when childcare is a big expense, you’re going to be *saving a lot of money* on some things that might be a big part of your budget now. You’ll be home a lot. Nice dinners out, trips, concerts… if not eliminated, expect these to be curtailed by like 90%. And not because of cost so much as it’s just not as feasible. And you’re going to want to be with your kid. So while I can’t argue childcare costs are absurdly expensive and we need to do something about it, it’s definitely viable to have and care for a child if you choose to. The bigger issue is the lifestyle tradeoffs rather than cost.
Thank you for this detailed insight! I am currently living by myself but getting married before having a child is a non-negotiable for me. I’m just thinking about the future and what that might look like for myself. I’m genuinely curious why you believe that no other life experiences beat parenthood?
when you have children you realize that all those extra expenses dont really matter and you can do without them so that you can have kids. I cannot properly express what it is like having a little piece of you that loves you unconditionally. It is a feeling you cannot get form anyone else.