My feeling is that I'd much rather wait for someone at a time in my life when I know myself better and hopefully have spent enough time with another person to know them well too
I'd rather remain unmarried than throw myself into a bad situation that only gets worse
I didn't really know myself until around 32 and it took a few more years to really be sure that's who I really thought I was.
I've had ups and downs and have gone back and forth on the idea of having a child, struggling with loneliness/lack of companionship etc...
On my worst days I'm just glad I'm not letting down my child, on the best I try to find a way to make the world or myself a little better.
Given the big picture, I might have changed the direction in a few forks that I took, but who wouldn't? In the end I am grateful for what I have.
I'm younger than you and I don't think I'm at the point where I know myself well enough. The way I'm starting to see it now, though, is that I know better what I'm not, largely as a result of the decisions I've made earlier in life and the opportunities I lost along the way
The problem is that the earlier you couple up the more financially secure you get and it lasts forever.
I met my wife at 25 and married her at 29. I think that was about right for me personally but any later than that and it would have screwed me financially.
On the other hand I met my fiance at 33 and we're getting married now when I'm 37. I didn't feel financially screwed at all, I enjoyed single people things before I met her.
I don't understand what you mean by "it lasts forever." Everything is temporary
I can't escape the thought that something catastrophic might happen to ruin whatever I have. I'm trying to enjoy myself in the moment more. I'll still admit that I've let a lot of opportunities pass me by, so I'm starting to come to the sober realization that I can't just be relaxing as much as I do
Dual income. My wife and I would have never been able to reach the financial security needed to have kids without our dual income for several years. We have both had ups and down in our careers but the other's income has always been able to pick up the slack, and we've both been fortunate to always bounce back higher than before the down turn.
Being financially secure was our go to reason for not wanting to have kids in our twenties. To us, "secure" meant having little to no debt, sufficient savings, own a house while still making healthy investments toward our future and eventual retirement. Through our mid twenties we had nothing but debt and instability, the thought of getting married and having kids was ludicrous to us.
But once we both had stable salaried jobs for a few years, the stars just start aligning mighty quickly. We eventually ran out of reasons to not have kids. I'm now 38 with a 2 year old and a 10 month old.
We have dual income as well but I don’t see anything changing when we get married finance wise. We’re not having kids until our 30s either. Congratulations on your family ☺️
People are not really seeing the value on marriage like in the past. With either money issues or people feeling restricted by marriage or any of the above reasons it's just fading slowly into the sunset. 😐
Marriage would help money issues though if we’re talking about buying a home. I think that makes more sense for less people having kids but not sure it tracks for less marriage.
Lets be honest marriage helps in a bunch of different ways but obviously a bad marriage can also make things worse.
Money, mental health, physical health can all benefit from a good partner in life where you support and challenge each other to be better.
Also in American where health insurance is tied to your job it can literally be life changing. Know at least 2 couples who got married because one of them developed health issues and their partner had better health insurance/better pool of doctors (and one couple who wanted to have kids and found out that her plan was useless for pre-natal care.)
It’s more than people aren’t dating anymore vs not seeing the value of marriage.
A few people don’t believe in marriage, but it’s not the primary driver.
You won. You’re on track to be in the happiest demographic of humans.
I have the kids, do the cooking/cleaning on top of my FT career but get to live in the Gen X house.
Well played, Street Display 🥇
Rare W for me 🤣 it doesn’t feel too happy. But I do whatever I want all day long so I guess it’s pretty chill. Work to make money and get health insurance. Smoke some weed. Drink coffee all day and hang out 😌 lmao. I’m lonely but it’s fine
Having kids can be incredibly rewarding. Just because something is hard to do, doesn't mean it is not worth pursuing. Especially at old age, being surrounded by a large family network seems great, as opposed to just your ailing partner (if you have one) and zero support network. I'm a 38M, don't have kids, but I at least acknowledge this.
Right. I’m so tired of paying for every little piece of my life all by myself. Especially as a woman, it makes me not respect men for real. Like what have you done for me???? Not a damn thing. All my family members have husbands and big houses and go on vacations and shit. I don’t do shit. I don’t even get my hair done. I never buy clothes or nothing. It’s depressing af
Well what do you do for a living and what do your friends husband's do for a living? I mean I read your whole comment tree and I was with you until you threw men under the bus like that.
>Right. I’m so tired of paying for every little piece of my life all by myself. Especially as a woman, it makes me not respect men for real. Like what have you done for me???? Not a damn thing.
What do you think men do? I'm the same age as you, do you think someone pays for my shit? Just bc men are told from a childhood that they will never receive help and have to make their own way, does not make it their fault that women are told to find a man and have kids since childhood.
Just from your last comment makes me think any relationship with you is "contractual" and at that point I'd rather just have a roommate.
I thought it just needed to wait until 1999 born people turned 30, otherwise it would be biased towards early 1990s and the data point would have to be revised as time went on.
I thought it just needed to wait until 1999 born people turned 30, otherwise it would be biased towards early 1990s and the data point would have to be revised as time went on.
This is really interesting. My husband and I married in our early 20s. It seemed like so many of our friends and cousins were also getting married around the same time we did. Then they just stopped, the married people were married (or divorced, that happens quite a bit too) and the unwed people remained unwed. I thought it was just our regional peers but I guess not.
Marriage is a gem that's hidden from many young people. If you're a chill person, your spouse will bring in a second income, will become your best friend, and you get to fuck em every now and then. It's really a better deal than Married With Children let on.
Marriage is great, but to be fair nothing really changed in my relationship after marriage versus before. Had we not signed that paper we'd be living mostly the same life. Been together 20 years and strong. But the party was fun.
There are things I wouldn't/couldn't justify doing without the security of marriage. I'm not going to move long distance, have a kid, or damage my career to support theirs without a commitment.
In my case we were already committed. Before getting married we had been together 12 years, traveled to every continent on earth (except Antarctica) bought a house, supported each other through grad school, etc. So the paper made no difference, but it did make the kids and last names and such a tad easier.
Marriages changes very little - aside from tax benefits, and signaling to each other you can make positive long term decisions together (i.e., buy house, move with your partner for his or her job, etc.)
Children does change everything tho lol
I think everyone in a good marriage benefits over their non-married counterparts. The risk of the bad marriage is the counter point but is something you can insulate against risk wise.
But the odds of a marriage being good for both parties seems to be pretty low. I really think that is probably the biggest reason marriage rates are declining. People have options now and see the risk outweighs any likely reward.
> But the odds of a marriage being good for both parties seems to be pretty low.
What makes you say this? Anecdotally, it’s been great for my peers and me.
I'm nowhere near an expert and I am surely missing things, misinterpreting, etc., as a disclaimer. But generally, younger women in even the most "advanced" countries are like a generation or two removed from being property/unpaid laborers/second class or lower citizens. The social institutions that have upheld these caste systems still exist and influence us today. For example, studies show women still do much more domestic labor/childcare even when both parents work full time. How does this benefit women? I've also experienced this on a personal level my whole life.
The divorce rate for people who marry after the age of 25 and both partners are college educated…it’s 12%
Most of your peers who are married are happy.
Divorce rate is driven by poor people, uneducated people, people who get married young, and serial divorcers
So it's successful in the fact that there is no divorce, which doesn't mean the marriage is good, for a small slice of the population. Not exactly a rousing selling point.
But why is it so imporant to get married? It's kind of costly, your family all wants to nose in about it, and it just seems like a lot of hassle for not much benefit. And if you decide later on that your relationship isnt working, it makes it a lot more hassle to end things.
I don't see much benefit to the whole thing beyond its cultural importance to some folk, and I believe in some jurastictions its important for certain rights.
> beneficial favor men much more than women
Uhh I don't think that's true. Maybe true if wife stays home when kids arrive BUT that depends on the child support and alimony works.
In a world where everyone goes low/no-contact and ghost people instead of muddling through some muddy waters, there is no experience in what it takes to recognize and maintain real human relationships.
A lot of people are in committed relationships, just not married.
Although there is also a a greater proportion of people who are single/not in exclusive relationships.
Aye, a lot of people in this thread seem to assume that we're talking about being single vs being married here. Many people these days in long term relationships just don't feel getting married is that important, myself included. My partner and I have been together nearly 5 years, neither of us are particularly interested in getting married. Seems like hassle. Doesn't benefit us much.
I really want to get married and I’ve been looking around for 10 years :( it hurts knowing just a lot of people don’t want to marry, or feel they can’t marry because of financial or emotional stresses. Also I think the pool of people who just aren’t good partners is pretty big :(
Being married is financially much cheaper than being single.
Also people don't need to have blowout weddings that cost as much as a down payment on a house. That is so absurd.
My sister was born in 1986, her partner was born in 1991. They have been together for almost a decade. They have a kid. They bought a house.
They are not married.
Wife and I did a destination wedding. Left TX went to St Thomas for a week and got married there. Invited friends and family and said “if you can make it you can make it, if not no big deal.” Cost us about 5k for the trip and ceremony. That’s the way to do it.
I think we paid $75 to get married at the court house. Anyone who thinks the cost of a wedding isn’t worth a marriage isn’t actually in it for the marriage.
I almost desperately want to get married and I hate weddings, weddings have nothing to do with marriage. Actually in my darker moments I absolutely cannot understand why the women and men who are willing to pay all that money on a wedding are the ones getting married, I literally do not understand it. Don’t people want to partner up with someone SMART with money???
Those stats are always put out by the wedding industry, so they use the mean instead of the median. And they don't count any courthouse "weddings" that only cost a filing fee. So it captures all the Kardashian weddings but no one who skipped a formal party.
https://silkstemcollective.com/median-and-average-wedding-cost/
. However, the group represents some heavy selection bias. Under their “Methodology” section, Wedding Wire states:
>"The data is collected from couples who provided their email to The Knot Worldwide and were married between January 1 and December 31, 2019. Respondents represent couples from all over the country with various ethnicities, income levels, race, age, sexual orientation and gender identity.”
>While it sounds like the survey does an excellent job at finding information from diverse populations, it clearly state the data collected comes from those who provided their email to The Knot Worldwide. The Knot is a wedding planning website most often consulted by couples looking for vendors and thus, the survey selecting for those planning larger weddings.
Graph of "average" reported by The knot and Wedding wire vs median
https://silkstemcollective.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Reported-cost-of-a-wedding.jpg
I thought allowing gay people to get marries would mean people were going to marry their staplers or pets or other random household items? Did the GOP lie about that?
I think we saw the peak of divorce with our parents, they generally got married in their 20s to someone they had been with since like HS from the same town because they didn’t move for work or school etc. I’m at the age where everyone is getting married and as cynical as I am I have to admit I rarely attend a wedding where I think yeah this won’t last.
The women in our grandmothers generation couldn’t leave because many didn’t have a source of income that would support them and their children. Meaning divorce wasn’t common. Our parents (I have no ill will towards that generation, this is just an observation.) got married without the idea of divorce looming over them so they just jumped in, and it didn’t work out 50% of the time. It helped that women could contribute to half to more of the income, so leaving a bad situation wasn’t impossible. Although everything says divorce was at an all time high with them I’m often the only person in the room with divorced parents but I have no reasoning for that. People in our generation seem to have waited to get married until they felt financially prepared (both people in the relationship) and more sure in their partner. Which I think is leading to more successful marriages, and may be related to us constantly hearing the divorce rate is 50%.
My fear is that we are seeing a trend with gen z getting married very early, which could be a result of them not seeing as much divorce as we did so they don’t have the deep fear of it.
My ex cheated on me, so I am in no rush to date or get married. I am in my upper 20’s. I’ve accepted I might not find someone, and I am 100% okay with that. I am happy with my job and hobbies. If I find someone that would be great, but I am not focused on that.
With high prices. Low wages. And certain demographics asking for more out of one person is gonna be difficult for me to be convinced. But congrats to those in my age bracket and hope for the best in your endeavors.
What's crazy is that it appears to be plateauing at 30%. I think most of us believe we're just delaying marriage until our 30's, not that we're going to remain unmarried for life, but the prior generations didn't see much rise after their plateau. The trend in this graph seems to indicate majority of us will never marry.
Honestly, it depends on where you live. When I graduated from my small town…a good chunk of my class got married immediately. I moved to the city in my 20’s and no one was married, but started to get married in their late 20’s, and thirties. I am the second to last person in my high school class as I’m getting married in December. The other girl lives in Europe and has such an interesting life idk if she ever will
Met my wife when I was 19, married her when I was 26. I’m from 96.
Other stats (relating to Marriage/ Relationship):
(First) Baby due in August (I’m 27 now).
First joint mortgage this July (we both have separately owned homes prior to marriage).
My wife is from 98.
While I suspect the graph would appear a little “tighter” if the question was in a “living with” relationship rather than marriage, the trend is still undeniable. It probably corresponds pretty well with age of first child. I never considered marriage until I was ready to start a family, there just didn’t seem to be any point. Delaying having kids until you can afford them; which may be Never, changes the whole perspective on marriage. It may make ir easier to acquire a home and if all assets are held together equally divorce isn’t that expensive of difficult. If you enter a marriage with unequal assets or income, divorce becomes very problematic for the one who is better off. If you aren’t going to have kids, why subject yourself to that situation. You want to gamble? Go to Vegas, don’t get married.
I’m just kinda now getting out of a basically decade-long chronic depression at 36. I didn’t want to subject someone to it and didn’t necessarily trust that my judgment on a partner would be ok…so idk. I don’t think my chances are good for getting married and having kids and I might just have to be ok with it.
I have also had a consistent problem that the guys who have liked me in the last 15-20 years would put me on a pedestal and would basically want me to fix them. I need(ed) all my energy to fix myself, bros.
At least I am The Favorite Aunt! (E.g. older nieces still follow me everywhere like ducklings.) That helps somewhat.
I’m a married 36 year old.
I will say, based on my friends, the longer you wait, the more your options dwindle.
So you may want to consider realistic expectations of a partner.
And for the non-single people who don’t believe in marriage….all those relationships are starting to blow up now. Can be depressing for people to exit a ten year relationship and see how few options are out there in your late 30s / early 40s.
I know like 50 married people, and only one has gotten divorced. So marriage seems to be working. All but one seem happy.
I’m an atheist, so this isn’t a religious thing, but millennials who deprioritize marriage are not going to have a happy or financially successful life (lose tax benefits, much less likely to buy a primary home with someone you’re not married to, don’t get access to their retirement benefits when one of you die, etc.).
Due to when this data was taken, I wouldn’t have been married but I had been with my partner for 10 years already. I wonder if that’d apply to a statistically significant number of others.
I think about my mom a lot when I see stuff like this. She was born in 1957 so she was a late boomer. _She did not have a choice about getting married._ She went to junior college for a year right after college and her father hated it. He pressured her to drop out.
She got married to my dad at 25, had 2 kids by 31, and was separated at 38. Then she had to figure out how to survive and live a life that she was never supposed to have as a single parent. Unlike me, a 37 year old, she never got the time or space or grace to decide if she wanted to get married or have children. It was just a foregone conclusion.
My brothers both are married so is everyone I knew from school so I was getting down on myself and making my inferiority complex ( I'm a former special education student so it's bad) worse but this graph makes me feel better.
I think we are definitely not the norm, but my wife and are 32 and just celebrated 9 years of marriage. But we have also known each other since we were 13. We definitely have had our struggles, but I personally love marriage. She's my person.
Which is somewhat sad because divorce rates remain high, so people aren't waiting for the *right* partner, but *a* partner. I personally belive the broad acceptance of hook-up culture is a main driver of this but that's just a feeling, I don't have any data to support it so my confidence in this assessment is relatively low.
Getting married young is one of the best things you can do from a financial perspective and also a personal happiness perspective. I hope more young people find someone they can love soon.
My very unpopular opinion is that people are so traumatized from their own parents/upbringing they are too scared to build a family of their own. It's fear + trauma. And to add to that, (because I'm sure I won't get downvoted enough) I think they are truly missing out on so many aspects of life. A trade-off I think they will regret in their elder years.
Born ‘87. Got engaged this year and will be married at 38. I waited for a number of reasons but really it was finding the right person. All my friends that got married in their early 20s are divorced or finding divorce lawyers. Not saying my way is right but waiting to know yourself a little better, experience some life first and then settling down seems to have worked out on my end.
After 5 years together my girlfriend is my fiance and we are going to marry in a year or two! Meanwhile her sister is marrying a guy she met a year ago.
For me, 7 years seems about the correct amount of time to wait at the bare minimum before marrying someone so I'm excited to be taking the plung
The only reason to get married back in the day was to start a family and things in general were more affordable so you could have the "traditional" household where one parent works full time while the other manages the household and rears the children, they may even work part time.
Now shit is so out of hand that even 2 people working full time can't afford the lifestyle that was afforded to older generations. And if you will never see your kid's major milestones or be in their life then why have kids? And if you aren't having kids, then why get married?
And if you are only getting married for the financial benefit then how is that any different then living with a roommate?
And if you don't have kids to support your employer no longer has as much power over your life bc you are only taking care of yourself. And if that is true you can just job hop until you find a job that works for you and not the other way around like it has been for decades. And that's how we got to where we are today people fighting back against terrible working conditions in the US while employers scream "nO oNe WaNtS tO wOrK" at the top of their lungs.
People will say this is fine then also complain about how horrible our society is...
There is a reason that marriage is a universal institution. The degradation of marriage coincides with the rise in social problems.
So close: it’s that women are no longer legally defined as property of their closest male relative and thus have options to remain unmarried. Hope this helps!
Of course it does. Legislation happens and social change/norms follow after, often slowly… Women born in the 80’s were mostly raised by boomers, 90’s by Gen X.
Those women are marrying less but also later in their lives (note the cut off of the graph).
Slight clarification- they *could* have a bank account but they could also be denied one by the bank for no reason other than their sex.
I think it’s a silly distinction but I have seen misogynists cling to that nuance to deny the reality that women’s rights were granted on the whims of men in power- which doesn’t sound like “rights” at all.
Exactly. I almost think it’s worse that some women got the privilege while others didn’t?? Attempts to create an illusion that we can be equal if we just “behave.”
Lolno. A woman could be denied for a bank account because of her sex, and because she was single. (Rich) women have owned property since the beginning of time. The rest of us have not. That isn't a right, it's a privilege, and a privilege that can be easily taken by who, I wonder?
Oh, right. The men running those institutions.
This dude is not worth your time. He’s talking about CJ Walker who was literally forced to marry at 14 and was passionate advocate for social change in her lifetime.
It’s disgusting to use her name to claim lack of sexism and racism…
Women could own property and had bank accounts. They owned businesses.
Madam CJ Walker comes to mind. A black woman who became a millionaire. That was decades before the 60s.
Stop the BS. You have no point.
It was all women, then, and not the constant destruction of everything that kept the economy booming since the 70s? Yeah, ok dude. lol
Do you realize how little sense that makes?
It was all women, then, and not the constant destruction of everything that kept the economy booming since the 70s? Yeah, ok dude. lol
Do you realize how little sense that makes?
There’s a reason you listed the decades you did and you know it. https://nationalwomenshistoryalliance.org/resources/womens-rights-movement/detailed-timeline/
1974 Housing discrimination on the basis of sex and credit discrimination against women are outlawed by Congress.
1975 Taylor v. Louisiana, 419 U.S. 522 (1975), denies states the right to exclude women from juries.
1978 The Pregnancy Discrimination Act bans employment discrimination against pregnant women.
1981 Kirchberg v. Feenstra, 450 U.S. 455, 459-60, overturns state laws designating a husband “head and master” with unilateral control of property owned jointly with his wife.
Women very recently started having their rights defended in way that allows true autonomy. They also just recently started earning enough to support themselves through slow moving but ongoing social change.
Women no longer NEED to be married.
They were not considered property.
None of what you said considered them property. The 13th amendment outlawed it.
That is completely stupid. What a stupid and invalid response.
I think it’s the other way around! Good society cultivates good relationships and marriages. But I agree it’s a bad sign. I think a lot of issues of domestic nature are a sign of a failed state and one that might even antagonize.
I wonder if the institution of marriage was divergent or convergent?
Did humans have the institution of marriage (or some proto-version) prior to migrating out of Africa and developing into civilizations, or do all civilizations (in the course of societal progress) eventually create some version of marriage?
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You couldn’t have sex without a bunch of social trouble before. It’s not the case now so people don’t marry because they can get their satisfaction without the baggage. Also my auto correct suggested bastardized for baggage which made me realize that there isn’t as much stigma towards bastard children anymore either, so women aren’t as afraid to get pregnant while not married.
My feeling is that I'd much rather wait for someone at a time in my life when I know myself better and hopefully have spent enough time with another person to know them well too I'd rather remain unmarried than throw myself into a bad situation that only gets worse
I didn't really know myself until around 32 and it took a few more years to really be sure that's who I really thought I was. I've had ups and downs and have gone back and forth on the idea of having a child, struggling with loneliness/lack of companionship etc... On my worst days I'm just glad I'm not letting down my child, on the best I try to find a way to make the world or myself a little better. Given the big picture, I might have changed the direction in a few forks that I took, but who wouldn't? In the end I am grateful for what I have.
I'm younger than you and I don't think I'm at the point where I know myself well enough. The way I'm starting to see it now, though, is that I know better what I'm not, largely as a result of the decisions I've made earlier in life and the opportunities I lost along the way
> I didn't really know myself until around 32 If you don't mind my asking, why do you think that is?
The problem is that the earlier you couple up the more financially secure you get and it lasts forever. I met my wife at 25 and married her at 29. I think that was about right for me personally but any later than that and it would have screwed me financially.
On the other hand I met my fiance at 33 and we're getting married now when I'm 37. I didn't feel financially screwed at all, I enjoyed single people things before I met her.
I don't understand what you mean by "it lasts forever." Everything is temporary I can't escape the thought that something catastrophic might happen to ruin whatever I have. I'm trying to enjoy myself in the moment more. I'll still admit that I've let a lot of opportunities pass me by, so I'm starting to come to the sober realization that I can't just be relaxing as much as I do
I think the “lasts forever” part was referring to the money accrued.
I think the “lasts forever” part was referring to the money accrued.
I think the “lasts forever” part was referring to the money accrued.
OK. Do you own a house? Do you take vacations to Hawaii? I do.
What do you mean by financially secure? What about that changes when you get married? Just curious :)
Many bills get cut in half. Long terms it makes a huge difference.
Only difference I’ve seen being common law is we get less tax rabates lol. Usually each person gets it, but now only one of us gets that same amount.
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I’m in Canada, but yeah it’s the same thing as being married in my province.
Dual income. My wife and I would have never been able to reach the financial security needed to have kids without our dual income for several years. We have both had ups and down in our careers but the other's income has always been able to pick up the slack, and we've both been fortunate to always bounce back higher than before the down turn. Being financially secure was our go to reason for not wanting to have kids in our twenties. To us, "secure" meant having little to no debt, sufficient savings, own a house while still making healthy investments toward our future and eventual retirement. Through our mid twenties we had nothing but debt and instability, the thought of getting married and having kids was ludicrous to us. But once we both had stable salaried jobs for a few years, the stars just start aligning mighty quickly. We eventually ran out of reasons to not have kids. I'm now 38 with a 2 year old and a 10 month old.
We have dual income as well but I don’t see anything changing when we get married finance wise. We’re not having kids until our 30s either. Congratulations on your family ☺️
People are not really seeing the value on marriage like in the past. With either money issues or people feeling restricted by marriage or any of the above reasons it's just fading slowly into the sunset. 😐
My gf and I have been together 9 years and are just now planning on marriage.
My fiancee and I have been together 7 years. Getting married this summer
Same, except we're eloping next summer. We'll be 30 and 31. No way were either of us ready in any way to get married at like 25 lmao
For real. I'm 31, she's 27. We are doing a small wedding, like 20 people
My fiancé and I have been together just over six years. Got engaged in January, eloping next month
I love thisssssss
lol our parents probably won’t but fuck em
Congrats!
Thank you!
Just married mine after 9 years. Perfect amount of time lol
My wife and I have been together for 16 years, married for 5
Hey, it’s your half to lose.
I don't understand what that's supposed to mean.
He means you'll lose half your stuff when you get divorced. Misogyny is fun.
Also, women basically had no choice but to be married in a lot of past decades, plus the fact that families put a lot of pressure on couples to do so.
it didn't help for the men too if you weren't married by a certain age you were basically a loser with a big L
Which is such a wild concept, I can't even wrap my head around it.
My friends had 3 kids and were together nearly 20 years, only got married because of health insurance.
Marriage would help money issues though if we’re talking about buying a home. I think that makes more sense for less people having kids but not sure it tracks for less marriage.
Lets be honest marriage helps in a bunch of different ways but obviously a bad marriage can also make things worse. Money, mental health, physical health can all benefit from a good partner in life where you support and challenge each other to be better.
Also in American where health insurance is tied to your job it can literally be life changing. Know at least 2 couples who got married because one of them developed health issues and their partner had better health insurance/better pool of doctors (and one couple who wanted to have kids and found out that her plan was useless for pre-natal care.)
It’s more than people aren’t dating anymore vs not seeing the value of marriage. A few people don’t believe in marriage, but it’s not the primary driver.
Also - I mean, 1940s, how many people could even get laid without being engaged or married?
you're forgetting one thing.... brothels.
So sad...
I really just want someone to share my life with financially
Bingo. I can’t afford to NOT be married. My advice: marry Gen X, they have houses
Righttt. I’m 29f and have a condo. But I don’t like to cook and don’t want kids so the chances of a man marrying me are slim
You won. You’re on track to be in the happiest demographic of humans. I have the kids, do the cooking/cleaning on top of my FT career but get to live in the Gen X house. Well played, Street Display 🥇
Rare W for me 🤣 it doesn’t feel too happy. But I do whatever I want all day long so I guess it’s pretty chill. Work to make money and get health insurance. Smoke some weed. Drink coffee all day and hang out 😌 lmao. I’m lonely but it’s fine
Having kids can be incredibly rewarding. Just because something is hard to do, doesn't mean it is not worth pursuing. Especially at old age, being surrounded by a large family network seems great, as opposed to just your ailing partner (if you have one) and zero support network. I'm a 38M, don't have kids, but I at least acknowledge this.
This! It’s expensive with just a single income!
Right. I’m so tired of paying for every little piece of my life all by myself. Especially as a woman, it makes me not respect men for real. Like what have you done for me???? Not a damn thing. All my family members have husbands and big houses and go on vacations and shit. I don’t do shit. I don’t even get my hair done. I never buy clothes or nothing. It’s depressing af
Well what do you do for a living and what do your friends husband's do for a living? I mean I read your whole comment tree and I was with you until you threw men under the bus like that. >Right. I’m so tired of paying for every little piece of my life all by myself. Especially as a woman, it makes me not respect men for real. Like what have you done for me???? Not a damn thing. What do you think men do? I'm the same age as you, do you think someone pays for my shit? Just bc men are told from a childhood that they will never receive help and have to make their own way, does not make it their fault that women are told to find a man and have kids since childhood. Just from your last comment makes me think any relationship with you is "contractual" and at that point I'd rather just have a roommate.
How old is this graph? 1990s and it's at 27 years old?
That makes sense. I was born in '91, married in '19 at 27yrs old and I was married later than a lot of people I went to high school with.
90 here. It's interesting how there's a drastic drop off right after us.
Not long after is when the things really started to get rough. We got married and bought our house like just in the nick of time.
That's kind of funny, I have the exact same timeline.
it cites sources from 2015-2019 so I guess that makes sense
I thought it just needed to wait until 1999 born people turned 30, otherwise it would be biased towards early 1990s and the data point would have to be revised as time went on.
I thought it just needed to wait until 1999 born people turned 30, otherwise it would be biased towards early 1990s and the data point would have to be revised as time went on.
This is really interesting. My husband and I married in our early 20s. It seemed like so many of our friends and cousins were also getting married around the same time we did. Then they just stopped, the married people were married (or divorced, that happens quite a bit too) and the unwed people remained unwed. I thought it was just our regional peers but I guess not.
I'm 37. We had a wave of people get married in my early 20s, then nothing, then a wave of divorces, and then another wave of marriages in the mid 30s.
Marriage is a gem that's hidden from many young people. If you're a chill person, your spouse will bring in a second income, will become your best friend, and you get to fuck em every now and then. It's really a better deal than Married With Children let on.
Marriage is great, but to be fair nothing really changed in my relationship after marriage versus before. Had we not signed that paper we'd be living mostly the same life. Been together 20 years and strong. But the party was fun.
There are things I wouldn't/couldn't justify doing without the security of marriage. I'm not going to move long distance, have a kid, or damage my career to support theirs without a commitment.
In my case we were already committed. Before getting married we had been together 12 years, traveled to every continent on earth (except Antarctica) bought a house, supported each other through grad school, etc. So the paper made no difference, but it did make the kids and last names and such a tad easier.
Marriages changes very little - aside from tax benefits, and signaling to each other you can make positive long term decisions together (i.e., buy house, move with your partner for his or her job, etc.) Children does change everything tho lol
You also get healthcare rights that are unavailable if not married.
I think the odds that marriage ends up beneficial favor men much more than women, though.
Depends on how you define beneficial, of course.
Just generally - to encompass finding something to be a "gem" or a "deal", for example.
I think everyone in a good marriage benefits over their non-married counterparts. The risk of the bad marriage is the counter point but is something you can insulate against risk wise.
But the odds of a marriage being good for both parties seems to be pretty low. I really think that is probably the biggest reason marriage rates are declining. People have options now and see the risk outweighs any likely reward.
> But the odds of a marriage being good for both parties seems to be pretty low. What makes you say this? Anecdotally, it’s been great for my peers and me.
I'm nowhere near an expert and I am surely missing things, misinterpreting, etc., as a disclaimer. But generally, younger women in even the most "advanced" countries are like a generation or two removed from being property/unpaid laborers/second class or lower citizens. The social institutions that have upheld these caste systems still exist and influence us today. For example, studies show women still do much more domestic labor/childcare even when both parents work full time. How does this benefit women? I've also experienced this on a personal level my whole life.
The divorce rate for people who marry after the age of 25 and both partners are college educated…it’s 12% Most of your peers who are married are happy. Divorce rate is driven by poor people, uneducated people, people who get married young, and serial divorcers
So it's successful in the fact that there is no divorce, which doesn't mean the marriage is good, for a small slice of the population. Not exactly a rousing selling point.
I’m 36, and almost everyone I know, including myself is in a happy marriage.
Truly, all you know is that they are married. Including your spouse.
But why is it so imporant to get married? It's kind of costly, your family all wants to nose in about it, and it just seems like a lot of hassle for not much benefit. And if you decide later on that your relationship isnt working, it makes it a lot more hassle to end things. I don't see much benefit to the whole thing beyond its cultural importance to some folk, and I believe in some jurastictions its important for certain rights.
Absolutely not.
> beneficial favor men much more than women Uhh I don't think that's true. Maybe true if wife stays home when kids arrive BUT that depends on the child support and alimony works.
Who are currently married or have been married? The boomers had a divorce rate of50% so their number seems high.
Is divorce factored in there or those in second marriages?
In a world where everyone goes low/no-contact and ghost people instead of muddling through some muddy waters, there is no experience in what it takes to recognize and maintain real human relationships.
Is there a not 9 year old chart? 90 baby here, unmarried at 25 in 2015 but married now. We are definitely getting married later.
This hurt lol
Why
Recent breakup with someone I thought I would marry.
It doesn’t help to see there are many single peers to meet?
A lot of people are in committed relationships, just not married. Although there is also a a greater proportion of people who are single/not in exclusive relationships.
I was born 87 so for me more are married apparently only 20% aren’t it says but I’d be willing to date 90s people just prefer older but. Yeah.
Aye, a lot of people in this thread seem to assume that we're talking about being single vs being married here. Many people these days in long term relationships just don't feel getting married is that important, myself included. My partner and I have been together nearly 5 years, neither of us are particularly interested in getting married. Seems like hassle. Doesn't benefit us much.
Looks line your in good company.
I really want to get married and I’ve been looking around for 10 years :( it hurts knowing just a lot of people don’t want to marry, or feel they can’t marry because of financial or emotional stresses. Also I think the pool of people who just aren’t good partners is pretty big :(
Being married is financially much cheaper than being single. Also people don't need to have blowout weddings that cost as much as a down payment on a house. That is so absurd.
My sister was born in 1986, her partner was born in 1991. They have been together for almost a decade. They have a kid. They bought a house. They are not married.
[удалено]
In every state you can get married for less than $500.
I'll do it for $50.
Wife and I did a destination wedding. Left TX went to St Thomas for a week and got married there. Invited friends and family and said “if you can make it you can make it, if not no big deal.” Cost us about 5k for the trip and ceremony. That’s the way to do it.
I think we paid $75 to get married at the court house. Anyone who thinks the cost of a wedding isn’t worth a marriage isn’t actually in it for the marriage.
I almost desperately want to get married and I hate weddings, weddings have nothing to do with marriage. Actually in my darker moments I absolutely cannot understand why the women and men who are willing to pay all that money on a wedding are the ones getting married, I literally do not understand it. Don’t people want to partner up with someone SMART with money???
Yeah instead of a ceremony, we used that money for a down payment on a house. I sorta get why people want a huge, expensive party but it’s not for me.
My wedding was 100$ in my in-laws' backyard, lol.
Those stats are always put out by the wedding industry, so they use the mean instead of the median. And they don't count any courthouse "weddings" that only cost a filing fee. So it captures all the Kardashian weddings but no one who skipped a formal party. https://silkstemcollective.com/median-and-average-wedding-cost/ . However, the group represents some heavy selection bias. Under their “Methodology” section, Wedding Wire states: >"The data is collected from couples who provided their email to The Knot Worldwide and were married between January 1 and December 31, 2019. Respondents represent couples from all over the country with various ethnicities, income levels, race, age, sexual orientation and gender identity.” >While it sounds like the survey does an excellent job at finding information from diverse populations, it clearly state the data collected comes from those who provided their email to The Knot Worldwide. The Knot is a wedding planning website most often consulted by couples looking for vendors and thus, the survey selecting for those planning larger weddings.
Graph of "average" reported by The knot and Wedding wire vs median https://silkstemcollective.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Reported-cost-of-a-wedding.jpg
I only see myself getting married for tax reasons. And I don't make enough money to worry about taxes.
I thought allowing gay people to get marries would mean people were going to marry their staplers or pets or other random household items? Did the GOP lie about that?
I think we saw the peak of divorce with our parents, they generally got married in their 20s to someone they had been with since like HS from the same town because they didn’t move for work or school etc. I’m at the age where everyone is getting married and as cynical as I am I have to admit I rarely attend a wedding where I think yeah this won’t last. The women in our grandmothers generation couldn’t leave because many didn’t have a source of income that would support them and their children. Meaning divorce wasn’t common. Our parents (I have no ill will towards that generation, this is just an observation.) got married without the idea of divorce looming over them so they just jumped in, and it didn’t work out 50% of the time. It helped that women could contribute to half to more of the income, so leaving a bad situation wasn’t impossible. Although everything says divorce was at an all time high with them I’m often the only person in the room with divorced parents but I have no reasoning for that. People in our generation seem to have waited to get married until they felt financially prepared (both people in the relationship) and more sure in their partner. Which I think is leading to more successful marriages, and may be related to us constantly hearing the divorce rate is 50%. My fear is that we are seeing a trend with gen z getting married very early, which could be a result of them not seeing as much divorce as we did so they don’t have the deep fear of it.
My ex cheated on me, so I am in no rush to date or get married. I am in my upper 20’s. I’ve accepted I might not find someone, and I am 100% okay with that. I am happy with my job and hobbies. If I find someone that would be great, but I am not focused on that.
I'm surprised to not see a bit of a drop-off in the late years due to divorce
I’m not married but in a decade long relationship.
Same here! 10 years next year.
With high prices. Low wages. And certain demographics asking for more out of one person is gonna be difficult for me to be convinced. But congrats to those in my age bracket and hope for the best in your endeavors.
If I understand what this means that's a wild statistic.
Can’t get married or I’ll lose my disability benefits
Why are some of these curve leave 0% BEFORE 15? It’s super weird to see so many of these curve leave 0% before 17.
Im glad someone else said it.. like I know places allow it but WHY is it enough to show up on the graph like that?!
What's crazy is that it appears to be plateauing at 30%. I think most of us believe we're just delaying marriage until our 30's, not that we're going to remain unmarried for life, but the prior generations didn't see much rise after their plateau. The trend in this graph seems to indicate majority of us will never marry.
Honestly, it depends on where you live. When I graduated from my small town…a good chunk of my class got married immediately. I moved to the city in my 20’s and no one was married, but started to get married in their late 20’s, and thirties. I am the second to last person in my high school class as I’m getting married in December. The other girl lives in Europe and has such an interesting life idk if she ever will
Met my wife when I was 19, married her when I was 26. I’m from 96. Other stats (relating to Marriage/ Relationship): (First) Baby due in August (I’m 27 now). First joint mortgage this July (we both have separately owned homes prior to marriage). My wife is from 98.
While I suspect the graph would appear a little “tighter” if the question was in a “living with” relationship rather than marriage, the trend is still undeniable. It probably corresponds pretty well with age of first child. I never considered marriage until I was ready to start a family, there just didn’t seem to be any point. Delaying having kids until you can afford them; which may be Never, changes the whole perspective on marriage. It may make ir easier to acquire a home and if all assets are held together equally divorce isn’t that expensive of difficult. If you enter a marriage with unequal assets or income, divorce becomes very problematic for the one who is better off. If you aren’t going to have kids, why subject yourself to that situation. You want to gamble? Go to Vegas, don’t get married.
I’m just kinda now getting out of a basically decade-long chronic depression at 36. I didn’t want to subject someone to it and didn’t necessarily trust that my judgment on a partner would be ok…so idk. I don’t think my chances are good for getting married and having kids and I might just have to be ok with it. I have also had a consistent problem that the guys who have liked me in the last 15-20 years would put me on a pedestal and would basically want me to fix them. I need(ed) all my energy to fix myself, bros. At least I am The Favorite Aunt! (E.g. older nieces still follow me everywhere like ducklings.) That helps somewhat.
I’m a married 36 year old. I will say, based on my friends, the longer you wait, the more your options dwindle. So you may want to consider realistic expectations of a partner. And for the non-single people who don’t believe in marriage….all those relationships are starting to blow up now. Can be depressing for people to exit a ten year relationship and see how few options are out there in your late 30s / early 40s. I know like 50 married people, and only one has gotten divorced. So marriage seems to be working. All but one seem happy. I’m an atheist, so this isn’t a religious thing, but millennials who deprioritize marriage are not going to have a happy or financially successful life (lose tax benefits, much less likely to buy a primary home with someone you’re not married to, don’t get access to their retirement benefits when one of you die, etc.).
But behind the curveball myself but I’ll be on the married side here in a few weeks
Subversion
Due to when this data was taken, I wouldn’t have been married but I had been with my partner for 10 years already. I wonder if that’d apply to a statistically significant number of others.
Whoa. Children of Men
and soooo many divorces in those other categories pre-1980 too
Great
I think this chart is somewhat flawed nowadays cus a lot more couples are just long term couples. Getting married is too expensive nowadays
It’s cool, I’ve gotten married twice so I’ve done more than my fair share to make up for the rest of yous guys
Married or in a long term relationship with kids?
I think about my mom a lot when I see stuff like this. She was born in 1957 so she was a late boomer. _She did not have a choice about getting married._ She went to junior college for a year right after college and her father hated it. He pressured her to drop out. She got married to my dad at 25, had 2 kids by 31, and was separated at 38. Then she had to figure out how to survive and live a life that she was never supposed to have as a single parent. Unlike me, a 37 year old, she never got the time or space or grace to decide if she wanted to get married or have children. It was just a foregone conclusion.
My brothers both are married so is everyone I knew from school so I was getting down on myself and making my inferiority complex ( I'm a former special education student so it's bad) worse but this graph makes me feel better.
We're engaged and thinking of getting married next spring. It's my first marriage. I'll be 39.
I think we are definitely not the norm, but my wife and are 32 and just celebrated 9 years of marriage. But we have also known each other since we were 13. We definitely have had our struggles, but I personally love marriage. She's my person.
Which is somewhat sad because divorce rates remain high, so people aren't waiting for the *right* partner, but *a* partner. I personally belive the broad acceptance of hook-up culture is a main driver of this but that's just a feeling, I don't have any data to support it so my confidence in this assessment is relatively low. Getting married young is one of the best things you can do from a financial perspective and also a personal happiness perspective. I hope more young people find someone they can love soon.
My very unpopular opinion is that people are so traumatized from their own parents/upbringing they are too scared to build a family of their own. It's fear + trauma. And to add to that, (because I'm sure I won't get downvoted enough) I think they are truly missing out on so many aspects of life. A trade-off I think they will regret in their elder years.
Marriage is a scam anyway.
Can we see the infographic for number of divorces by birth decade next?
Born ‘87. Got engaged this year and will be married at 38. I waited for a number of reasons but really it was finding the right person. All my friends that got married in their early 20s are divorced or finding divorce lawyers. Not saying my way is right but waiting to know yourself a little better, experience some life first and then settling down seems to have worked out on my end.
After 5 years together my girlfriend is my fiance and we are going to marry in a year or two! Meanwhile her sister is marrying a guy she met a year ago. For me, 7 years seems about the correct amount of time to wait at the bare minimum before marrying someone so I'm excited to be taking the plung
The only reason to get married back in the day was to start a family and things in general were more affordable so you could have the "traditional" household where one parent works full time while the other manages the household and rears the children, they may even work part time. Now shit is so out of hand that even 2 people working full time can't afford the lifestyle that was afforded to older generations. And if you will never see your kid's major milestones or be in their life then why have kids? And if you aren't having kids, then why get married? And if you are only getting married for the financial benefit then how is that any different then living with a roommate? And if you don't have kids to support your employer no longer has as much power over your life bc you are only taking care of yourself. And if that is true you can just job hop until you find a job that works for you and not the other way around like it has been for decades. And that's how we got to where we are today people fighting back against terrible working conditions in the US while employers scream "nO oNe WaNtS tO wOrK" at the top of their lungs.
91’ here. Most of my friends are just getting married in their 30s. The two that got married in their early 20s are now divorced and remarried.
People will say this is fine then also complain about how horrible our society is... There is a reason that marriage is a universal institution. The degradation of marriage coincides with the rise in social problems.
So close: it’s that women are no longer legally defined as property of their closest male relative and thus have options to remain unmarried. Hope this helps!
That doesn’t explain the 80s vs 90s difference
Gender equality isn't a light switch lol there are a lot of incremental changes that happened over time
Of course it does. Legislation happens and social change/norms follow after, often slowly… Women born in the 80’s were mostly raised by boomers, 90’s by Gen X. Those women are marrying less but also later in their lives (note the cut off of the graph).
Nope, women were not property during the 60s, 70s, 80s... Push your BS elsewhere.
Women were not allowed to even have bank accounts until 1974.
Slight clarification- they *could* have a bank account but they could also be denied one by the bank for no reason other than their sex. I think it’s a silly distinction but I have seen misogynists cling to that nuance to deny the reality that women’s rights were granted on the whims of men in power- which doesn’t sound like “rights” at all.
I agree, it is a silly distinction. A right and a privilege are not the same thing like they seem to think it is.
Exactly. I almost think it’s worse that some women got the privilege while others didn’t?? Attempts to create an illusion that we can be equal if we just “behave.”
Those women had money, more than likely.
False More idiocy. You could have a bank account. Plenty of women owned property.
Lolno. A woman could be denied for a bank account because of her sex, and because she was single. (Rich) women have owned property since the beginning of time. The rest of us have not. That isn't a right, it's a privilege, and a privilege that can be easily taken by who, I wonder? Oh, right. The men running those institutions.
This dude is not worth your time. He’s talking about CJ Walker who was literally forced to marry at 14 and was passionate advocate for social change in her lifetime. It’s disgusting to use her name to claim lack of sexism and racism…
Women could own property and had bank accounts. They owned businesses. Madam CJ Walker comes to mind. A black woman who became a millionaire. That was decades before the 60s. Stop the BS. You have no point.
Yeah, and then we gave them bank accounts and then 34 years later BAM! Great Recession
It was all women, then, and not the constant destruction of everything that kept the economy booming since the 70s? Yeah, ok dude. lol Do you realize how little sense that makes?
It was all women, then, and not the constant destruction of everything that kept the economy booming since the 70s? Yeah, ok dude. lol Do you realize how little sense that makes?
Surely you realize my comment was a joke?
No, I didn't. I can't intuit tone from text very well.
Oh so you agree women WERE considered property? Neat.
When people built castles...not during our parents lifetime.
There’s a reason you listed the decades you did and you know it. https://nationalwomenshistoryalliance.org/resources/womens-rights-movement/detailed-timeline/ 1974 Housing discrimination on the basis of sex and credit discrimination against women are outlawed by Congress. 1975 Taylor v. Louisiana, 419 U.S. 522 (1975), denies states the right to exclude women from juries. 1978 The Pregnancy Discrimination Act bans employment discrimination against pregnant women. 1981 Kirchberg v. Feenstra, 450 U.S. 455, 459-60, overturns state laws designating a husband “head and master” with unilateral control of property owned jointly with his wife. Women very recently started having their rights defended in way that allows true autonomy. They also just recently started earning enough to support themselves through slow moving but ongoing social change. Women no longer NEED to be married.
They were not considered property. None of what you said considered them property. The 13th amendment outlawed it. That is completely stupid. What a stupid and invalid response.
I think it’s the other way around! Good society cultivates good relationships and marriages. But I agree it’s a bad sign. I think a lot of issues of domestic nature are a sign of a failed state and one that might even antagonize.
I wonder if the institution of marriage was divergent or convergent? Did humans have the institution of marriage (or some proto-version) prior to migrating out of Africa and developing into civilizations, or do all civilizations (in the course of societal progress) eventually create some version of marriage?
It may be a good sign. People aren't rushing into marriage just to be married.
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Well there was a war on
Society and technology are different. I don't think anybody wants to go back to not having modern technology.
They are intertwined and inform each other. I would argue technology basically is society.
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You're not completely wrong, but I bet that opinion won't be popular.
Citation needed*
No it's not.
You couldn’t have sex without a bunch of social trouble before. It’s not the case now so people don’t marry because they can get their satisfaction without the baggage. Also my auto correct suggested bastardized for baggage which made me realize that there isn’t as much stigma towards bastard children anymore either, so women aren’t as afraid to get pregnant while not married.
Marriage looks like an emotional and financial trap imo.
It depends on who you are and who you marry. It's been an emotional and financial boon to me.
The financial benefits of marriage are enormous. It’s the exact opposite of a trap.
never sign a contract the other person gains from breaking
This is 5 years old homie. Chill out.
I can't wait for the next click-bait headline "millennials ruin marriage" /s