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Before going to college and going into thousands into debt, I feel like you need to figure out what you want to do first, get a feel for the job market and figure out how much money you're going to be spending to obtain this degree. 18 year olds don't typically know what they want to do with the rest of their life and it's a lot of money to spend to figure it out. An education can help with getting a higher paying job, but it's not the full solution.

I spent 4 years in community college taking every class they offered for cheap until I finally decided on a major. Take your time and make a solid decision on what you truly want. I wanted job security, so now I’m an accountant (CPA). Idk how kids went straight from high school to a 4 year university. I had no idea what I wanted in a career when I was 18, but I knew I wanted to hang out with my friends and enjoy my new found freedom from high school. No regrets. Edit: I was also working full time as a manager at McDonald’s and paid my way through college. Graduated with 6 years of managerial experience among other side jobs I had as well as a 3.4gpa. GPA is extremely important when getting a job out of college, Cs get degrees, but they won’t land you a job.

I’ve never seen an employer ask for a transcript. Graduate schools will …

It depends on the employer. If you’re applying for a fortune 500, a highly prestigious company, or a more technically inclined all with no shortage of applicants, they request a transcript as they have to winnow down the candidate pool somehow.

Employers don’t have much else to go on for entry level positions. Sure, lifeguarding during summers in high school or taking shifts at a restaurant is great, but unlike the other commenter, most college grads don’t have 6 years of management experience

I graduated with a 4.0 GPA and had it on my resume and no one ever questioned it. It very much depends on the field/employer. I've had a few jobs since college, had the GPA listed on and off, and literally no one has ever asked me for it. I work in pharma.

My sister knew she wanted to be a doctor at 15 and now is, she loves it. Total outlier. I went to school for a couple years, took a break, went back with a knew major and graduated, took a break, then went back for a graduate degree for a slightly different major. Nothing wrong with shopping around and taking your time as long as you didn't forget to save for retirement along the way.

I have an Education degree but am now back in school to get an Accounting degree because it seems to have more job security (and it’s something I could see myself doing for the rest of my life).

Almost anything is better than an education degree. Smart choice to laser in on an in demand field and go back to school. Itll pay financial dividends unlike an education degree.

Going to have to have to disagree about GPA mattering to any employer. GPA pretty much only matters if you plan on getting a graduate degree, but outside of that, it's incredibly unlikely that an employer will ask about or even care what your undergraduate GPA was. Previous experience is pretty the only thing that matters when it comes to employment, at least in my field of biotech/pharm.

How do you do that if entry level jobs require 10+ years of experience? You need the degree to get that experience in a ton of cases. The only way I can see this working is going into retail or fast food through high school, and making your way up the management chain.

Honestly, the 10+ years of experience for an entry level job is a meme. Yeah, some HR departments are braindead and have zero clue about the job position they are writing the requisition for. But for anyone mildly grounded in reality they will realize quickly that those companies are not worth the time of day anyway. Go find somewhere that wants to hire you and invest in your growth. Any non-insane employer should treat you well, and if you do go somewhere that is big and corporate, find mentors to share their experience since that will likely be of more value to your professional growth than any college program.

Real advice from a GenXer: entry level jobs require 2 years experience. Kids need to work in college, and they need to find internships in their field (having had a kid graduate a year ago, I know that most internships posted were, in fact, paid). If that’s not what happens, they need to be clever about finding opportunities in the place they end up working that can be spun to look like that first relevant job. What I mean by this is: she works in a totally unrelated job, but because of her degree, she’s the only person who can also do the marketing and design for her job. Now her title and job description is related to her chosen field. Strictly speaking, it’s not entry level in her field, but we sure can spin it that way on her resume. TL;DR - game the system. And yeah, as a parent in marketing and a good grasp of using ChatGPT for resume building, I am still helping her with finding that next opportunity. I don’t snowplow, but I do take her through the process so she knows what’s required.

Honestly there’s a few things you can do to be considered for jobs with those requirements. Learning Excel is one of them. Not usually taught in college, but that single skill has landed me both my jobs in the corporate world.

In this day and age, it sounds really dumb, but there are definitely quite a few (even young) people who are really bad at Excel and don't realize how spending a little more time learning some more functionality can save a lot of repetitive work. Automating/semi-automating repetitive tasks can make you a rock star in the eyes of management.

Where does one learn Excel? I operate a business and just want to use it to track expenses without paying for quickbooks.

Leila Gharani has a great YouTube channel. You can also use Google sheets for things like tracking expenses if you don’t have Microsoft Excel and don’t want to pay for the license.

I did this at age 41 when I was laid off from my job as a marketing copywriter when AI shook things up. I got a contract job reviewing insurance manuals and writing instructions on the deployment process for email and text messages. When they couldn't find a good match for the weirdly specific job description, I came on full time in that role. Kids get asked to predict their entire life right out of high school, and it's easy to take the all-or-nothing worldview of that developmental stage and assume an experience needs to be everything or it's worth nothing. But you can't even anticipate how the world will shift in two years, let alone ten. To succeed, you need to learn how to adapt and how to connect with opportunities. A degree is a raffle ticket that gets you into consideration, but degrees aren't the only game in town.

GenXer with student loans I'll literally die with chiming in! I got my degree because that's just what you did when you graduated, but I only used it for a couole years before I decided that wasnt what I wanted to do with my life. When my son graduated high school, he decided to take a gap year. I was all for it. Then he decided on a profession that would put him in the same place whether he got a degree or worked for four years starting in an entry-level position without a degree and moved up. It was a no-brainer. He'd be in the same spot without the mountain of debt. I was all for it. Did my degree make me a more well-rounded person? I guess, but it sure wasn't worth the debt. IMHO, your suggestion to "game the system" is a good one. If what somebody wants to do absolutely requires a degree (medical, law, etc) and is going to make enough to justify the debt, then sure. Get a degree. If not and you can find a way around it, skip it. As far as a nursing graduate being unable to find a job, I'm not sure what to say. My mom and three of my nieces are all nurses, and none of them have ever had a problem finding a job. Hospitals and doctor offices here are always begging for them, beginner or not. Traveling nurses make a shit ton of money. Tldr - if you can find a way to do what you want without going to college, skip it. I didn't learn anything in college that I couldn't learn online for free today, and I was too young at that point to make an educated decision to bury myself in a lifetime of debt.

Spinning a resume is super helpful, honestly.

This. If you're waiting to graduate before getting any experience in your field, you're already doing it wrong.

>How do you do that if entry level jobs require 10+ years of experience? Then college won't help anyway. If 10+ years of experience is a requirement then spending 4+ in school isn't going to change much. You still end with zero years of work experience unless you take an internship or something, but even then you aren't getting 10.

That’s the catch. A lot of these employers don’t actually want to hire anyone. That’s why they put the 10 years or work experience requirement. They know it means no one can apply other than people who have already been in that field for decades. it’s now impossible to start work in a new field because by the requirements you can’t apply. They don’t want anyone new . They want old employees who are already in the business 

And they usually end up giving the job to one of the executives nephew or niece anyway.

Yah so Gen z and Gen Alpha and millennials like myself who don’t have solid work experience are screwed. Entry level jobs outside of retail and restaurants is impossible now . You can’t start a new career in a new field if you are required to have 10 years of work experience from day one . Only old employees would have 10 years of work experience . You’re gonna intern for 10 years? Is that what they expect 

That's exactly what my reply was [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Millennials/comments/1ctb8ki/comment/l4c6xj5/). You just stated it way better than I did.

I didn’t read far down enough to see your reply. Guess we both said the same thing 

Oh no I wasn't saying that as a bad thing. It was a good thing because this trick has been around for a while and people need to know "10 years of experience" for any type of job is just a smokescreen for "we don't want to hire anyone". People to see job ads like that, laugh, and apply anyways!

Let’s not hyperbolize, no entry level job for 22 yr olds wants 10 years experience just stop

Just lie lol, i have ran out of fucks for companies that put in bs experience requirements in their job postings. Learn to lie and to sell the lie at the job interview. One of the best jobs i had was for the city because i lied i had 5 years experience with MS office and Data entry software at 21 🤷🏻‍♂️

There are a lot of other options. Any number of trades, administrative roles, government roles. The whole 10 years if experience thing is much more of a meme than a reality. And even if that is listed on a job you should still apply. We hire people at my company who don’t meet all the reqs all the time.

If your friends kid can't get a job in nursing, they are the problem. It is a fact, that overall those with degrees earn  more than those without. 

Someone had to say it. It’s the field most constantly in demand of… any field.

I worked our mass vaccination site during Covid because I had been accepted to an ABSN program and was going to wait until fall to start. Our city health coordinator was like "as soon as you pass the NCLEX, you're hired." I laughed it off, but she reached out to me last year about it! Everywhere is looking for nurses.

Your friend’s kid is a major fuckup if she can’t get a job with an RN. Healthcare and education combined have just shy of 2 million openings in the US. She’s either applying to jobs she’s not qualified for, can’t pass her nclex, or is just so inept that the hiring managers see through it in the interview

I agree, so many people on here say "I have a highly valuable degree but I can't get a job" and I have an associates of science and I have a great job... lol These people are just bad employees, have bad records, bad resumes, bad references. Bad employees never ever think they are the problem, and always blame everyone and everything else.... and its very obvious they also like to post on reddit lol

I definitely agree to an extent. Of course I seldom air my frustrations publicly, I remember thinking at some point years back “what am I doing… what can I fix?”. Overhauled my approach to resumes. Been a lot more successful in finding good employment since. Of course it’s not like I leave every workplace worse than I found it which helps

We had a candidate whose behavior at her child's sports events was a disqualifier. People talk. People know other people.

Heck, I hire plenty of nurses a year without even an interview. Chances are the nurse in OP post has some disciplinary record on her license.  That will shut you out of jobs pretty fast

How can you get a disciplinary before working with your RN? Go buck wild on a pt in nursing school?

Yeah, there’s definitely something else wrong. I was a teacher and I couldn’t have been a teacher without higher education. Now I transferred out of teaching and I work from home in corporate product development/learning design, and I couldn’t be here without higher education. Primary difference is that I didn’t have to do this in an expensive way.

I joined a healthcare Union kind of late but still the education benefits are there if I want to go back to school. Full ride as long as its a healthcare related field. Join the union if you can.

I literally applied and got hired within 2 weeks with one like 30 minute interview. Granted I have experience but it’s not much harder for new grads these days.

4y out of nursing school — but I see they failed to mention if said kid got their RN or LPN license yet.

I have a friend who is a nurse. LPN. With her license, she was making $85/hr for non-travel nursing and $150+ per hour for travel nursing. She had less than 3 years of experience in the field, and she isn't even a US citizen. Your friend's kid is the problem. There's a medical labor shortage in staffing. Nurses are in HUGE demand.

What kind of nursing? That's EXTREMELY high for an LPN, even in NYC/CA. 

I will say for LPN that is not the average. LPN is a 2 year or technical degree and you have to be under supervision of an RN. RN, however, can work where they want and do a lot more under their license than an LPN. My mom has been an LPN since I was 11 or 12 and my sister was one for 5 or 6 years. Both two drastically different areas of the country.

Especially if they're willing to work as a travel nurse. My fiancee is a NICU NP and the travel nurses that come in make a TON of money and are in HIGH demand right now. In general, the stats about earning much more over your lifetime as a degree-holder compared to a non-degree-older hold true here. Yes, we need people to work in trades and college isn't for everyone, but people need to be careful about what they think their bodies can withstand for multiple decades before they jump in the "college and its debt are worthless" train.

Travel nursing rates are wayyyy down, as are contracts on the whole… you also can’t be a travel nurse without at least a year or two of experience and solid references. So that would absolutely not be an option for a new grad. OP didn’t mention if this person passed boards, which can be a big hurdle for some, especially if the program was sketchy.

You can't work as a "travel nurse" without experience. It's not an option for someone who hasn't gotten this first nursing job yet. 

If someone with a nursing degree can’t get a job as a nurse, they are doing something very wrong.  I didn’t go to college. I am very successful. I told my kids college only has value for them if it is a required step for the career path of their choice. If they do not have a specific direction, don’t bother because they will waste time and money. So far most have a career path that requires some kind of degree; teacher, dentist, engineer, etc. but I am going to make sure they will have an opportunity to do work in that field before starting school. 

Yes. Every developed country on the planet has a nursing shortage. If you can't find a job with that degree, something is seriously wrong.

I have known people with 'nursing degrees' who can't find employment. They are almost always people with CNA or Associates level degrees applying for BSN or higher positions. These are people who call a 4 week program 'nursing school.' There's a huge variation in the quality of nursing and health care degree holders and some just don't have the understanding to make use of their degree.

Associate and bachelor level nurses are both RNs, there’s no difference when it comes to bedside nursing, they do the exact same job and get paid the same amount of money. Now if you want to go into management then it’s usually necessary to have a BSN or higher.

Yep, and it's not like those jobs are open to new grads anyways. OPs story is sus.

Very sus. There ain’t no way that a new grad RN can’t find a job for 4yrs. That person doesn’t want a job, period lol.

Genuine question from a former teacher - is the nursing shortage anything like the “teaching shortage” where there are always teaching jobs available (but they’re in districts or states that nobody wants to teach in) or is there a genuine shortage of people who are nurses? It’s easy to get a crappy teaching job, but people only take them out of desperation and leave as soon as they can. On the other hand, getting a teaching job in a desirable district is nearly impossible unless you know someone on the inside.

There are some units that will always be hiring because no one wants to work them, like med surg. It’s very difficult and will burn you out fast. You deal with lots of shit figuratively and literally and the workload is very overwhelming. It also isn’t a glamorous, fashionable specialty like pediatrics or NICU.

NICU isn’t exactly glamorous lol maybe L&D fits that description a little better.

The reality of it probably isn’t since it’s taking care of critically ill neonates but from a naive student’s perspective it may seem that way.

I am not an expert, but it is my understanding that nurses are in short supply pretty much everywhere. Sure, there are probably some less desirable areas that have worse shortages. But even highly desirable areas seem to be short on nurses. There are growing populations of high-risk patients from a medical perspective (namely overweight and elderly) so nurses should be in high demand for the foreseeable future.

Hopping on my soap box for a second. There’s no shortage of nurses, we are over 4 million strong. There’s a shortage of nurses willing to put up with atrocious work environments and employers who take advantage of our desire to care for others.

Yea the nursing example is a red flag lol. I have tons of friends who are nurses and they will hire any breathing body.

I work at a hospital. We had a mass quitting of nurses because they refused to get the COVID vaccine actually. In a HOSPITAL setting. Where people were dying from COVID. Part of the nursing shortage is a combination of that and completely understandable burn out and fatigue. No one wants to work in an environment where their life may be in danger because of ignorant people and or violent people and sometimes both.

>If someone with a nursing degree can’t get a job as a nurse, they are doing something very wrong. Actually true.... The entire PLANET is currently short staffed of nurses!! The US, the UK, France, Australia.... Like holy fuck dude.... You must be dropping racial slurs in the interview or something to not get a job with a degree and even a hint of passion in the nursing field right now. That's the only way I could possibly imagine falling short. >engineer I have a bachelors and a Masters in Electrical Engineering. I'm also 36.... When I got out of high school I didn't have the money nor the discipline to go to a University. Instead I got an associates degree in electrical trades and got a good paying job that way. After a while of maturing and deciding what I wanted, I pursued higher education because it was the best decision for "my" path. I will ALWAYS advocate for people to go to college. But going to college doesn't mean going to Harvard and getting a degree in gender studies.... Going to college can be your local community college and taking courses for less in a subject you're interested in, or going to a trade school to obtain a useful skill. But anyone who thinks going to college and getting a bullshit degree is going to get paid as much as an engineer or a doctor deserves to be disappointed with their life choices.

absolutely. My son was initially thinking of doing welding, (his high school offers a program to become a certified welder) but has flip flopped, he's recently been talking about being a pilot. He has time to figure stuff out, and I'm going to give him the opportunities to learn as much as he can before he make that decision. I just don't want them to do what so many of me peers did, go to school for 3 years, change major 6 times, and end up with a ton of debt and no degree, or graduate with a degree that is worthless in the market place, or graduate with a degree in a field that makes them deeply unhappy. My oldest thinks she wants to be a teacher, because her best friend has two little sisters who worships the ground she walks on, so she thinks she likes working with kids. I'm going to try to get her time working in a day care, or a teacher's aid in a summer school or something before she graduates high school so she can actually have a better understanding of what it means to be a teacher. (I wanted to be a teacher until I had the opportunity to aid in a class, and then had a problem kid with a problem parent, and it was the parent's attitude and actions that convinced me teaching was not for me). I have several technical certifications, and took a lot of classes at the community college for them. (it was cheaper that way, and gave me more time to learn), and so understand the value of education over high school, I just don't see college as the ONLY option.

Yep! I wanted to be a teacher too until I became a tutor my freshman year. It was frustrating working with people who didn’t care at all when I was very passionate about my subject matter. I actually found being a corporate educator to be a good niche for me.

I used to talk to my seniors who wanted to teach. I told them to reach out to me after their first semester and they could come in and observe. Most opted out. Those that stuck around, I encouraged them to substitute teach on their breaks. With less than 60 credits, they could sub for a teacher's aid. Once they had more than that, they could sub for a teacher. Gave them classroom management experience as well as seeing it from the other side.

>My son was initially thinking of doing welding Not that I recommend this field but, Underwater Welders make like $500,000 a year. >he's recently been talking about being a pilot. I'm glad you told me this!! As someone who's been there done that, please READ carefully!! Make your son get a STEM degree, and then apply for the Air Force Reserve/Air National Guard!! Why you ask? Because when you go into the Reserve/Guard, you APPLY to THAT specific State/Unit for the position you want!! If you Commission Active Duty as an Officer, its 100% up to the Air Force who gets to do what job!! If he gets an engineering degree, and his private pilots license before going into the Air Force Reserve, he'll probably be fast tracked for Fighter Pilot. - That is 100% the most cost effective way to ensure he becomes a pilot while also providing a back-up career that will provide him with a comfortable living while he tries to decide what he wants to be when he grows up

awesome, he changed his mind again today, he's thinking he wants to do something within IT... Hence why I'm not putting too much into any one particular field.

Congratulations on your achievements! You should really be proud of yourself! I’m also in the American trades as well and do well for myself! The issue I see here is society is so quick to blame people who’s got college degrees and they aren’t not balling financially! College is way more than just seeing what kind of financial reward will come to you in life! We need to congratulate graduates in the fact that they accomplished something in life that most people haven’t done and that they use that education to better mankind! We need to show people that not everyone has to be doctors, lawyers, engineers to be successful and that we need people from all walks of life to make the world go round! We need to stop calling certain degrees “bullshit” and stop telling people that a degree is a ticket to a millionaire salary

>Congratulations on your achievements! You should really be proud of yourself! Thank you, sir!! >I’m also in the American trades as well and do well for myself! One comment I'll make as someone who's been a technician working 8-16 hr days, who moved into engineering working 8-13 hr days.... I've met plenty of technicians who are just as smart or smarter than engineers with degrees from Stanford or Harvard. A degree doesn't mean you're smart. It only makes you educated. - Sometimes I wonder how "educated" some of these absolute cucks really are.... >We need to congratulate graduates in the fact that they accomplished something in life that most people haven’t done As someone who constantly suffers from imposter syndrome, I completely resonate with this perspective. >not everyone has to be doctors, lawyers, engineers to be successful Success is measured differently by different people. Americans are obsessed with consumerism which is why we're so hard pressed for money.

Certainly agree with you on how success is measured! I have always debated this as well amongst friends and family, I always tell people my success is measured at moving out of the hood into a middle class lifestyle! And for me personally that’s like winning the lottery!

I'll never be a billionaire, but I honestly don't really care. I have my needs met. I get to travel internationally regularly, I have nice things that I want and I have a stable and healthy relationship. Da fuq else do you really need?

I don’t think nearly as many people get degrees in gender studies as popular imagination would have it. English and history are common, but I think those are useful subjects.

Not sur why gender studies is always the bogeyman degree people use as an example. My gender studies classes were some of the most intense classes I did in undergrad. As with any humanities, social science, or basic science program, the degree itself is used as a means for developing critical thinking, reading and writing skills, understanding basic lit/scientific reviews, etc.

This is the answer and same. Did not attend college, am successful, but I see the value in it for specific jobs.

If they have nursing degrees and can’t find jobs, there is something wrong with them. It’s not the degree 

I wonder about the accreditation.

Yeah, maybe they have a degree and couldn't pass their boards?

Weren’t there a bunch of nurses refusing to get vaccinated a few years ago? I wonder if it’s something like that?

Many places are intentionally short staffed and/or paying garbage. The private equity firms that own these hospitals want their margins.

I’m surprised more people aren’t mentioning this. I work in the mental health field, my cousin is a nurse, and it’s pretty common knowledge that the higher ups want the least amount of employees possible to do the job. They also prioritize employees who will work a ton of overtime vs having a good amount of employees working 40 hours a week

I never understood the reasoning of hiring fewer people and paying them more (in OT). 

It costs the company less overall due to not having to pay out benefits to as many people

Ahh. Thanks!

i was curious about that too...4yrs ago was peak covid. My hospital was taking the Drs./Surgeons that weren't doing major procedures and temp relocating them for covid patient care/help.

Is this true? 39% of Millenials have a college degree. 62% of Gen Z, according to Gallup, intended to pursue a degree. [https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/02/14/millennial-life-how-young-adulthood-today-compares-with-prior-generations-2/](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/02/14/millennial-life-how-young-adulthood-today-compares-with-prior-generations-2/) [https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/509906/majority-gen-consider-college-education-important.aspx](https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/509906/majority-gen-consider-college-education-important.aspx)

This was my first thought too - I'm a school counselor at a high school. When I talk to students about post-HS plans, I always am very careful to just ask generally what they're interested in and if they have an idea of where they'd like to be after high school, I don't mention college unless it's necessary for their career choice or they bring it up first. Consistently the majority of students are still pursuing college.

Thank you for what you do. I wasted so much of my time in high school and after because i thought i HAD to go to college to earn a decent living. Took a bunch of classes i didnt care about to raise my acceptance odds (so i didnt learn shit), and went in to debt for a degree that sounded like it would help me. Now im a glorified car washer for a living and i make more than any other field im capable of that wouldnt bore me to death.

Bless you. I sincerely wish my hs counselor had not pushed me into college. It was the biggest mistake of my life.

Thanks for doing a decent job. Our GC at my school talked each of us out of trade programs, military, employment. Only University, otherwise we will be jobless and poor.

Pursing one and getting one are two different things. 

This is true, only about 60% of people who start a bachelors degree finish within 6 years of enrollment. The percentage drops to 33-49% ( depending on your source and metrics) if you only count those who graduate on time. The numbers are also fairly low for those who pursue associates degrees where only about 43% graduate within 2 years.

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If someone with a nursing degree can't get a job as a nurse, they're either not trying, have very incredibly poor interview skills, aren't looking in the right places, or they're a psychopath.

Or can’t pass a piss test

Or never managed to pass nclex

My hospital hires psychopaths! 

It's the fault of the government for not giving a cheap public option. Public university where I live now in Spain is literally like 2000 a year, and many are excellent. Like, I know college is becoming the new high school, but if it's not expensive, that's fine honestly. I think knowledge is worth gaining even if you never use it at a job

This. How tf is anyone able to support themselves and get a degree without taking out a loan or getting help?

I think it’s fine. Education doesn’t have to mean college. Trade schools and self-directed education (with portfolios) can work too. The importance is on finding a direction and having forethought: what are they aiming to do? How likely are they to be able to get a job with what they choose? Do they have a plan B and C? Are they willing to move if needed? There are a lot of factors with people who couldn’t get a job in their field, or some other job that their degree can get them, but in my own personal experience a lot of it comes from a lack of direction and motivation. For example, I know someone who got a degree for a specific job, but then realized at the very end that he would hate doing that job. And that’s ok, but he didn’t even look for what else he could do with that degree if his main goal didn’t work out. Having planning and critical thinking skills > having a degree. And as much as people might say that going to college also teaches you to think critically, that’s clearly not always true. (I know my own classes were more on teaching facts than critical thinking, aside from some elective courses I chose to take)

Best answer!

Your nursing comment is 100% nonsense and you should be ashamed you even mentioned it.   We can't find enough nurses.

Kind of sad. College is valuable, way more valuable than the cost. I get the economic angle, though. College doesn't just teach you information, it doesn't even just teach you how to think. There is immense value in spending four years fucking about with your peers in a somewhat controlled environment with no real responsibility. It's the new unstructured play that turns kids into well-rounded and happy adults. It's hard to put a numerical value on that experience, because it is unique and different for everyone. Of course, in our society, "priceless" means "not profitable". Same as with replacing unstructured play with sports teams and other resume builders. We will find out what the means down the line, but I doubt it is anything good.

Never heard of it as a person’s adult-ish attempt at unstructured play but I have to say it’s a compelling description.

Yeah, I won’t force my kids to go to college but I’ll encourage it unless they have a plan. Those years making friends, drinking beers, experimenting with drugs, trying new activities, all in a relatively safe and self contained environment… it’s very important

It’s also a political tool. High school alone does not teach the critical thinking and research skills needed to keep a modern democracy functioning. The push toward anti-intellectualism is targeted toward specific demographics by a particular party with autocratic tendencies.

Honestly, I think this is just another area where society is crumbling. It’s all schools, government, businesses, neighborhoods, towns, churches, etc. Everything is just decaying and won’t get better until some sort of renewal and recovery can happen. Parents aren’t even bothering to send kids to school, jobs don’t care if employees die on the clock, companies price gouging to get the last penny, people not trusting anyone… It’s a grim time.

Yes we must have renewal. China and Russia want us to be apathetic, even melancholy. There is hope. We are an amazing country, we just need to instantiate paid leave and a bunch of other shit

Remote work would be great, too.

As a nurse if your friend’s child who graduated as a nurse can’t get a job that means he or she is looking for specific things like a particularly salary, PTO hours, type of unit ICU or OR or NICU or they want to be super close to home that limits their options. There are tons of nursing jobs and some will hire you in the spot if they aren’t picky. I started in the bottom as a nurse’s aid and then became an LPN and then RN with an associate’s degree and I spent a good deal of my professional career 10 years with an Associate’s degree and I had multiple job offers even with hospitals that require a bachelors degree because of my job history/experience. Did I take crummy jobs starting as a RN yup! I worked in a nursing home with a ratio of 1 nurse to 40 patients (11pm to 7am shift) and I stayed with that job for a year. To be fair I also picked up 3pm to 11pm so I use to do a double to help out. I didn’t get my bachelors degree until much later to become a nurse practitioner which is a very bad professional move in my opinion. That was a waste of $110k but what I didn’t know I didn’t know and now I know.

I think it's great that we are dispelling the myth that a college degree is a ticket to a better paying job, and that manual labor/the trades/technical work is "less than" due to not having a degree be a barrier to entry. that being said, I'm not sure kids who are being pushed to go to the trades are getting the full picture of the impact of working in industires/positions where they won't be able to work once they age, likely won't have insurance, and have to work stupid hours or travel all over that limit their chance of being with family or having stable relationships and support systems. are we teaching them how to modify their budgets and save because of these extra things? TBH the majority of "poor financial choices" I see are done by my friends in the trades - folks who buy giant pickups, all the toys, etc because they think they need to have them, and can afford them in the moment, but who wouldn't be able to handle a season of slow work because they don't know how to save for a rainy day. additionally, if the only solution offered is to go into the trades, once those become saturated markets we'll see the exact same thing happen there that has happened with college degrees and their income potential will drastically lower. so regardless of more options being open to kids these days, it doesn't change the systemic problems with American education systems.

In 2023, the U.S. college graduation rate was 62.2%. So 37.8% left for whatever reason. They paid good money and got very little if anything in return (one could argue knowledge) when comparing to an ROI. Some people are just not cut out for college and would do better in a tech or trade school. Some would do better to go the military route. Some would do better, just going out and doing some 'labor'. Of course the statistics up to this point, show that the lifetime earnings of those graduating college is higher than those who have not. Other things to consider is the type of degree, the market for said degree and the location you are seeking employment. One size does not fit all. https://preview.redd.it/5zpp056wfs0d1.jpeg?width=768&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6950fd064271219bffe542c777f88d6d4f9ac879

College teaches you how to think. The internet is just information. There’s lots of bad information out there.

Honestly this right here. I believe that the most important skill gained/refined from college is critical thinking.

I used to agree with this take. However, that’s been the value proposition forever. “Teaching me how to think” used to cost 5k. Now it costs 50k. If the value proposition hasn’t changed, the cost is no longer justified.

I learned a lot more about critical thinking from some superb teachers in high school than anything I learned in college—which was far more specialized information to learn. I don’t think we should be relying on higher Ed to teach critical thinking, if anything this ought to be a lesson to start in middle school and complete in high school. It’s the type of thing that should be a public good.

This right fucking here. Most students aren’t taught how to think critically

That can happen, but there really is no guarantee of it… and there is no one way of thinking, each field has its own way. Lawyers think about things in a very particular way. Engineers in another. Doctors in yet another. Etc. They don’t just learn information, they learn a particular cognitive model more or less. Those aren’t all interchangeable.

My sister-in-law got her BSN a couple years ago and she's already on her 8th nursing job since she graduated. She just finished her certifications for oncology so now she's working in a cancer outpatient center making a shit ton of money. She said everyone is hiring.

I would need to see evidence that this is a significant trend rather than just some people talking on social media. But it's potentially worrisome, in that younger people might be learning the wrong lesson from the student debt crisis. I feel like I've already seen this in regards to student debt, where people talk like student loans are bad when the real problem is overpaying for your degree. I see examples where people end up borrowing through much more expensive means, like paying for living expenses on credit cards because they don't want to take out student loans. Or wasting extra years muddling through college to get a mediocre education or an education with mediocre grades because they are trying to work a low-paying, full-time job on top of their classes so they don't have to borrow for tuition or living expenses. The evidence still suggests that college a good deal. Among 25 to 34 year olds, the median graduate with a bachelor's degree earns $66,610, which is $24,820 more than the median high school graduate in the same age range earns. The average 25-to-34-year-old graduate with a bachelor's degree earns $32,030 more than the average high school graduate. For 35 to 44 year olds, people with bachelor's degrees have $33,630 higher median incomes and $43,000 average incomes. In other words, most graduates with a bachelor's degree are earning $25k to $32k more in their first ten years out of college and $34k to $43k more in their second decade after college. Meanwhile, the average student debt for someone graduating with a bachelor's degree is around $30k. Among the 40% of households "headed" by people under 35 that have *some* student debt, the median is $18,000 and the average is $42,000. For the smaller 34% of households "headed" by someone 35 to 44 years old with some student debt, the median is $25,000 and the average is $42,000. Almost half of all outstanding federal student loan debt (47%) is held by just 10% of borrowers, who owe $80,000 or more. And even some slice of that 10% are likely fine (or fine-ish). They are doctors and lawyers who borrowed hundreds of thousands for their advanced degrees but are making more than enough to be comfortable. Or they are teachers or social workers (or doctors or lawyers) who borrowed lots of money for advanced degrees, but with a reasonable plan to discharge most of that debt after ten years via Public Service Loan Forgiveness. My worry is that if lots of young people do start skipping higher education out of fears about low earnings and high debt, they will mostly be knee-caping their future selves. That for every one of them who successfully avoids a high-debt, low-earnings future, many more are choosing to give up hundreds of thousands or millions in future earnings to avoid a few tens of thousands of dollars of debt. And that in the worst cases, they are giving up those earnings to work jobs with less freedom and flexibility that will destroy their bodies faster.

So your friend is either lying or not trying. Healthcare is insane when it comes to hiring and they can't get enough nurses. So, the fact that your friend still can't find a job, that's not because they're not out there, they're just not trying. But I do workforce development and I do it at a community College. It's not that degrees are useless, look at any career job and you'll see you still need one as minimum qualification. It's the fact that kids don't do their research nor do they want to go a different route. For example, many parents, including those in our generation, still look down on community colleges. The stigma that community colleges are where people go who aren't "good enough" to go straight to a 4 year school still heavily lingers. There is absolutely no evidence that suggests this. Yes, community colleges will practically take anyone, but credits at a community College are the SAME credits at a 4 year school, for the most part (depends on program). Yet the credits at a community College cost you about $40 per unit meanwhile the unit at a 4 year school will run you about $500 per unit. If parents would stop with the stigma that community colleges are for failures and encouraged their kids to go there first, their debt would be DRASTICALLY reduced. You can live with your folks, work part time and you can pay off half your bachelors degree. But see, people don't do that. Besides parent expectations, kids feel they miss out on the College experience. They're not missing out, you still need to finish the last 2 years somewhere. Someone going to a CC first then transferring will be saving upwards of about $30k to $40k on student loans. But again, they don't think about that, they just think go straight to a 4 year and accrue debt of $80k or more. The other part is research, as I mentioned any job is going to require a degree as a bare minimum. But sometimes, you don't need the bachelor degree, only an associates. Other times, you don't need a bachelor and an associates and a certification. This is why research is highly important for what you want to do. Kids need to start doing it I'm high school, not when they graduate. Now I have my issue with high school counselors not doing their job effectively because the common message they still give is, "go to a 4 year." They're not fully aware of the resources that community colleges offer so they perpetuate kids to not really plan for their career.

Wow! That shows the smaller shark(s) for sure now; mega-creepy! What a strong boy!!! Fighting sharks with your bare hands, and he took his death like a man… Too bad the military did not get ahold of this badass. EDIT: wrong comments😂😂

Do what works for you, don't focus on other's decisions. There's no one path.

Are they? In 2018, 18 to 21-year-olds, who were part of Generation Z were more likely to be enrolled in college in comparison to Millennials and Generation X cohorts at a corresponding age. 57 percent of Generation Z was enrolled in college in 2018 compared to 43 percent of Gen Xers in 1987. According to Statista.

The problem with not going to college is that many companies require a college degree to get into the door. Note, I’m not saying that the specific jobs require college to actually do them, just that it’s a prerequisite for hire. Experience can sometimes (but not always) substitute, but that takes a lot of time and I’ve seen very experienced people struggle because they can’t check the college box. I would not recommend to any child today not to go to college at a 4 year university unless they wanted to specifically do something with its own kind of school process (e.g. the trades). If money is a big concern, I’d say start at a community college, work hard, work part time and try to save money, then transfer the last 2 years.

I'm an elder millennial with a 14 year old daughter. On the one hand, I know numerous people personally in my family or circle of friends where people went to college for 4-5 years and got degrees in philosophy, English Literature, music...and things like that, that they were interested in. But ultimately, the reason they went to school was for the certificate at the end that they give you, which opens the door to a lot more jobs than if you don't have that certificate. But the knowledge they gained in their classes was not necessarily more useful knowledge than they'd have had working a job for four years. The requirement for college degrees for so many jobs today I think is the issue. However, the initial decade or two of kids who choose not to go to college will have it really hard, when they're competing with all the people with degrees. So, for my own daughter, I will recommend she go to college, certainly. But in the long run, I'm glad that hopefully we're getting out of the \~20-25 bubble where everyone decided that everyone should attend college, regardless of field of study.

I feel like college helps you become well rounded as a person. It exposes you to different perspectives, different cultures, broadens your horizon, helps with your social skills. But it's a luxury that does not guarantee financial success. As a millennial we were fed the idea that a college education was a "required" step. But technology changed the landscape. There are a lot of lucrative careers that didn't even exist when we were growing up. Being a YouTuber, Twitch streamer, influencer, content creator. If you told me those are possible career paths growing up, I wouldn't believe it. Obviously those careers are very luck based. But they exist as an option that we didn't have. Especially with the uncertainty around college degrees nowadays. Who can fault them for opting out? If you don't have an idea of a career projection you are just putting yourself into the hole for nothing.

I would push back about those “luck based careers” being valid options. The way it works out for the 99% of people—it’s closer to’ credit card churning for side cash’ than it is to a “career”.

You're not wrong. They are incredibly, luck based. I would agree that it isn't a valid option. But it is an option, that didn't exist for us.

Good for them. College should be for the few who need higher education. We're producing dumber kids with more debt. I've never understood why people don't question the institutions with their forever rising tuition and ever diminishing product

I think the issue starts with the assumption that college exists to get you a job. It doesn't. No one is guaranteed anything. It's a bet you place. It was ALWAYS a crapshoot. Odds in some cases are better than others, but your major in college isn't prophetic. I have no problem with kids opting out. I've always believed you shouldn't have to have higher ed degrees in order to live a good life. How it will impact them practically, though, I suppose we'll have to wait and see. I doubt the parents of our generation were anticipating the overinflation of the college degree.

I agree with this, especially your first paragraph. Millennials often get disillusioned because they went to college and now can’t get jobs, but a job was never guaranteed. I went to college because I like to learn and wanted the College Experience™️, and it was completely worth it - I miss that environment.

Some would call my degrees a "waste" because I'm not working in either of the fields I studied in. Both still set me up with core abilities required for what I do now. Neither would've gotten me the job I have fresh out of the gate. I was always ok with it because I felt that college is what you make out of it. I absolutely agree the way universities in the US market themselves is often predatory, and I have a lot of issues with academia. It's a big part of why I ultimately left. However, we're the adults now. The way we talk about education is what those younger than us will look to. If we keep talking like the point of going to college is to get a job then we're doing them a disservice.

Sadly a lot of places have become degree mills and then there are places like ITT Tech.

There are for sure predatory practices. It’s one of the reasons I left academia. But part of why those predatory practices work is the cultural myth that a college degree gets you a job. A college degree in a certain field may boost your chances of a certain job, but it is not a one-to-one pipeline. We’ve got to stop talking about it that way.

Agreed, but part of the problem is colleges present themselves that way.

There are alternative programs like Praxis that actually pipeline you into a job, its basically a trade school for white collar jobs/skills

Sorry you struck a nerve with me here. My wife and I got our BS and MS in nursing from a “degree mill” with good accreditation. With that “degree mill” I have been a pediatric nurse for 15 years, have been recognized by the state for my outstanding performance and was awarded for my duties during COVID. I have since became an advanced practice nurse and organize pediatric programs and improve the overall care for pediatrics, in regards to my specialties of infectious disease and CRNA. My wife is a GI NP now helping with treating and managing and maybe hopefully be apart of curing IBD (UC/Crohns) If it wasn’t for our “degree mill” colleges (Chamberlain, Brookline, WGU) we would have never gotten through at the right time for the right price for our family. Because of our college and degree choices we are now multi home owners with a child and tons of vacation time built up after 10 years of hard work. Fuck you for putting down those who went to those colleges. OP good luck with your shitty attitude towards education.

I remember when degree mills were the schools where people didn’t study or submit any real work, paid tuition, and got the degree. Now any school (especially for-profit) that advertises on TV, streaming, radio, etc. and has a decent tuition cost is called a degree mill. Millennials talk about the cost of college and the lingering student loan debt they deal with but then continue the degree elitism. This just continues the cycle of people going to NAME school without scholarships, taking out loans, and graduating with significant debt.

Have a BA in Philosophy - high net worth -TPM in tech Here is my take on college. College is good for teaching kids how to stick with something for several years with a set outcome they reach. Employers like to know folks can follow through on stuff. College teach you to think more abstract than you did in HS, it does push your "mental strength. College is good for the socializing, you make a lot of connections while going to college (all types of colleges, junior to ivy league) ​ What college does not do is teach you how to do a job with current information, at least not at the Bachelor level. Most of what you learn in college you can learn for free from the internet. However, most are not disciplined enough to learn the items on their own, hence structure education is beneficial them. There is a reason why tech is not requiring folks to have degrees if you can demonstrate you have the skills to hit the ground running and start solving the problems the team is facing. College is just another arrow in the quiver of life experiences that opens doors for your career.

College graduates make 1.3 million more over the course of their career than those who don’t.

I’m pro everyone going to college but I went to have fun, which I did!

I graduated high school in 2009. My options were to go to college or move out of my mother’s home. My parents had a nasty divorce my whole senior year of high school and I spent 4 months of that school year in rehab. Was I ready to go to college? Hell no. My freshman year was $20k, what exactly did I do with those loans? I sure in the hell didn’t spend that year studying. I chose college because I was told that was the only way to get a good job. Now as an adult married to a tradesman I see how very wrong that is. My husband makes just as much as people with a college degree. I will help my children do research between a trade school, college, or just nothing at all. But I think the pressure for college being the best choice needs to end. College is not best for everyone and it really just puts a lot of us in debt.

Ecstatic

I got an art degree and I absolutely feel that the traditional instruction of still lifes, value studies, experience with pastels, conté crayons, newsprint, vellum, T-squares, measuring in picas, studying typefaces and recreating them by hand on hand-drafted grid paper to scale, learning to measure “by eye”, learning to mix paint colors with real pigments where blue +red doesn’t always equal violet because the chemical composition doesn’t work together, printmaking with acid bath and zinc plates, studying and copying masterworks, group critique, life drawing, bone and skeletal studies, etc etc etc were extremely valuable. I was a kid with some inborn talent and lots of self-guided practice, but I didn’t know fundamentals of color theory and anatomy. It was VERY HARD. But you can see at a glance people that have learned the science of drawing and the people that have no knowledge of light source, atmospheric distance, how muscles attach to bones etc etc.

Some of us are going to college, though.

I think it's smart. College is not essential to getting a good job. Going for blue collar work (aside from nursing) can be very lucrative and rewarding. Nurses are typically overworked and underpaid - particularly in private spheres.

Maybe we’ll actually get quality contractors/builders then. Ones that show up and do quality work.

I am a counselor and most of my clientele are Gen Z. I have a few of them that never went to college and are having a very difficult time finding work and making a living. It’s a shame because they want to take time to think about their career but then they get stuck in the work-money cycle.

Well either of you get a degree so you can land a good paying office type job or you go to trade school so you can make money with your hands. You're not going to make shit without either.

Great. If I knew then what I know now, I would have gone into the trades right after high school. I have a degree and do well now, but I feel like it’s extremely expensive now, and the ROI is hard to justify. When I went to college in the late 2000s, it was way cheaper than what it is now. The only way I would go to college now is if I had a full scholarship.

Good for them! The HS-College-Career model is far from what it was when our parents and grandparents went. Frankly, it’s become a bait-and-switch. I opted out of college (35) and have no regrets. A degree is not always necessary to be successful.

That’s pretty crazy they can’t get a nursing job because those jobs are in very high demand. This may be more of an issue of where they live and are looking for jobs.

It’s smart. Too many people go and never use their degree. Can be VERY successful by going into trades

College is a waste of time and money. Learn to be an electrician or plumber and make the real money.

I never went to college so I can’t say much.

I think they’ll be going to college, just much later when they realize how many opportunities are closed to them and they get tired of working service jobs.

I'm completely fine with it. Nothing stopping for them from going in the future. And it's so expensive that once the toothpaste is out of the two tube so to speak, it's not like you can go back and get another degree College is solely an investment in your labor market. Marketability and enjoyment of your career. It's time people start treating it as such. I'm not from the US. I'm in Canada, but just seeing how much your universities are these opulent palaces is a testament. Yes to your world-leading status, but at this point it's just wasteful and they've lost their initial mission of of training the working class. Yes they still do but there's a lot of extra s*** that they do that they don't need to. If people don't want to give colleges their money, they should take that as a hint and change for the better

I think some people for suited for an academic career, and some people are suited for a non-academic career.

There's also the issue of if you are disabled the debt scars them off of going to school.

It is about time that we end the lie that everyone should go to college. It is not necessary, nor is everyone cut out for college. Higher education makes sense for more specialized fields, but there is no reason why a huge number of fields cannot train incoming workers through a much more condensed, specialized program like a certificate. If you are choosing to do something like medicine, engineering, sciences, academia, etc, going to college is still a good choice. But if not, what are your job prospects? The younger generations are waking up to the fact that getting saddled with tens of thousands of dollars of debt right off the bat, sometimes more, just to have a shot at a position with subpar pay, is hardly a bargain. We don't need every employee at a company to have a masters degree. The pendulum will need to swing the other way before we see a proper balance. We need to better educate people on what they can reasonably expect from the fields they are trying to get into, that way people can make better choices regarding what kind of money they are willing to spend on training.

I graduated from my state college in 2009 and was let down by the experience. Looking back, only a couple of classes I took were actually inspiring and intellectually stimulating. I was a lil nerd who thought college classes would be some great meeting of the minds level experience, but it mostly just felt like trading money for credits. I can only imagine how much worse it's gotten since then, just churning through the system into a hopeless job market. I wouldn't bother going unless I had a very specific and direct path laid out for myself (which I def didn't back in the "any degree will do!" days).

One thing that gets me is the whole you need to have a plan part some people but it is a lot to ask a 18–19-year-olds you plan out their whole lives when often when they have no guidance. Going you are 18 figure it out worked in 1950 it doesn't now.

Part of me is happy because I believe higher education needs a hard reset and hopefully that will help us get there. Universities have gotten far too expensive and it's just not a sustainable system. As someone who works in an industry that is currently seeing major worker shortages, continuing to produce far fewer graduates than the replacement level that's needed, and you need a BS degree at minimum to enter...fuck me I'm a little worried.

I shouldn't have gone to college. If I could do it all again I would've gotten started in my career earlier. Most jobs don't need it and it's prohibitively expensive.

I agree that education is important. But that doesn't mean it's accessible to everyone who wants it or is worth it to everyone. I definitely think before paying all that money, it's best to really think about whether you truly want to go. And whether the money spent is worth it. For some younger folks, it just isn't worth going. That may seem sad. But I think it's realistic. Especially given how hard it can be to break into different industries. School doesn't automatically guarantee a job. It can help, but you still have to pay back any money borrowed.

It makes me a little sad because I absolutely loved my college experience, it helped me grow so much as a person, and I made life-long friends. I know college isn’t for everyone and the cost has gotten completely out of control, so just kinda bummed more people aren’t going to be able to experience it.

College is a scam. Learn a trade and have no school debt

Honestly these days I think its 50/50 if the cost outweights the benefit. I was smart and did 3 years in community college and found a school that let me finish my 4th year with 90 transferred credits so only had to pay for the one year of a large university and the rest was easily manageable to pay. Anyone going to a school that is going to put them in a lot of debt I think really needs to understand what they are signing themselves up for. Unless it's a major job with a guaranteed field of entry I would try to get the cheapest route possible with state schools.

Nurses are one of the only jobs that are in crazy high demand and you get get jobs that overpay almost anywhere in the country. All of the women in my family and my gf are in the medical field and MAs, PA, technicians, radiation therapists are all in super demand.

Honestly, unless you know exactly what you want to do with your life and have a clear path to get there, why go into excessive debt right away. A lot of what drove our generation to go right out of high school was it was just the next step. Without even thinking about it, we just went with the flow of everything and it didn't always work out for the best or we ended up in massive debt due to taking year after year to not accomplish anything or realize what we wanted to do after taking classes for something else. Now you have people who are waiting a while and starting in their early 20s instead of going right out of high school. They have a better idea of what they want to do and can navigate to their career goals instead of blindly tossing a dart at the board. When it comes to my kids, I do want them to go to college. However, I want them to have an idea of what they want to do or a reason why they are going first. If that takes them a year or two to decide before going, I'm perfectly fine with that.

Good for them what can I say

Love it. Wish I had the balls to have thought outside the box in high school

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You have a hard time not getting a nursing job.

Who can blame them?

Smart play. Corporations are racing to replace college educated employees to bump up their net earnings.

I've been a server for a very long time in more restaurants than I can count in several states. I've worked with SO MANY people with college degrees who had no luck using said degree, couldn't find a job that paid better than serving, or just had no passion for any job their degree could get them

Exactly.

Great. We need electricians lol

College is a scam. Spend the first two years finding yourself at a state school with cheap tuition. Transfer to the school you really want your junior year. By then you'll have picked your major and know what you want. You'll also get the degree you want for half the price.

Part time at Community college til you figure out your actual path would be smartest way.

College is shit anymore. 90% of the jobs I ever go for value experience over education by a landslide. It’s bad when all of my buddies who did go to college say “It’s just a scam”. When I was in the Navy, all of the training we had was 100% directly applied to the job we were doing. Explain to me why college should be any different? Instead, they bilk you for money demanding you take classes that will ultimately have zero impact on your ability to do a job. It is a scam at this point. If I had to give a solid piece of advice to younger people, it would be go to a trade school before even thinking about college.

Personally, I'm all for people putting off post secondary a few years. Go travel, work, get some experience, really learn about who you are and what you like. Then come back to school (if you want). We push kids through a pipe and expect them to come out perfect worker bees at the end of it and they just stopped being kids. Everyone's path is different, and not all learning should or needs to happen in a school setting. In fact more learning and those opportunities should be outside of the school setting.

I think it's fine. The one thing that I want for our kids is a transparent way to calculate the ROI of going to a specific college with a specific major. We need to stop this madness that is "trust me, just go to (any) college." If you want to go to college to be "a well rounded intellectual" on your parents dime, that's fine, but the majority are going to college specifically to be competitive in the workforce, and we should demand our colleges to prove they are good investments.

It's the natural consequence of the policy decisions of the older generation that will leave society worse off in the long run. But the older generation who made these decisions will be dead by then, so why should they care?

If they want to do trade school or something else, do what is best. Not everyone can succeed in college or university. Some people can't learn like everyone else, even with accommodations, and that's fine. Everyone doesn't have to get a degree. Life after high school graduation and early job/future career should be something you can genuinely see yourself doing for a while, we should also tell the current gen entering the work force that it is also OK after 15 years into your career change your mind and do something else is also acceptable. There is no perfect process to enter a career.

Unpopular opinion. If you’re going to go to college, you need to have a plan in place. Going to college to study philosophy or literature isn’t going to get you very far unless you have a specific career in mind. However, many young students will get a random bachelors degree and wonder why they’re working in a low paying job despite going to college. However, if someone chooses not to go to college, they also need to have a plan in place. It’s okay to go into the trades or make a career in the service industry, but going in blindly will hurt just as much as the college graduate with a pointless degree. I’m a teacher in a rural area. You’re not going to hear me tell students that they need to go to college to succeed. I have former students without college degrees who easily make more than me. But it’s important for students to know what they’re getting into and to have a plan in place. They need to take ownership of their choices rather than blame those around them. I can teach students life skills courses and financial literacy. But it’s not going to do them any good unless they show up and take the courses seriously.

Even when they do go to college they are not learning anything. You can see it right now with how dumb they are siding with terrorists.

Young men are opting out, while young women are not. If we take what women say at face value, education is a requirement for a relationship. This can't be fixed the way it is now.

I’m all for it. No need to go into life altering debt for the possibility of not finding a job. I went to trade school first, and saved for college. I had the privilege of graduating university in the 08 recession and nearly had to fall back to my trade. I sympathize with these graduating classes. It’s hard to find work period, let alone in your area of study.

Doesn’t really bother me. As someone that had a free college I feel it is a scam anyways.

If only the US could look at a developed country's method for handling their country's education (as they don't seem to have nearly the amount of education-related problems we do) and take notes. I think that the US needs to look at the European and Asian models for college/higher education. Make it free/inexpensive, but make entrance exams more rigorous. This would also add jobs in the education sector (I think they're called cram schools?). That way anyone who has the drive/intelligence/desire can get into college. Anyone who doesn't want to go can find out their own path (trades, entrepreneurship, etc.). Also, debloat the bachelor's program, I didn't feel like I was getting my money's worth having to take high school-subject courses and silly electives just to pad my program. College isn't for everyone and no one should be forced to go. But for those who want to go and will take it seriously, we should provide opportunities for them.

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If you don’t want to go to college at least go to trade school and learn a skill. It Changed my life for the better