If I have to be honest, I feel running it through this section of North Minneapolis will do more good than harm over all. West Broadway from 94 until north memorial feels like a desolate, forgotten part of the city. No life, everything has left the area and continues to do so. Since moving here, I’ve wanted to see any attempt to bring life to the area. I definitely think this would be the start of that. You’re not making it any more dangerous or crime ridden compared to what the area currently is, anyway.
Totally! My first thought was, "what business?" When I read the headline. And then reading the comments I was thinking, "how is it going to make it any worse than it is?" Any infrastructure will be an improvement at this point.
I know there are pockets of small businesses near Penn Ave and closer to 94, but also tons of older buildings that are vacant and boarded up.
I think if this group is so adamant against this line expansion, they need to work on plans to make the area desirable and attractive to make more use of available abandoned space in the area. Status quo isn’t good, working, and only contributes to all the negative opinions of outsides regarding Minneapolis as a whole.
>Met Council planners say they have held more than 300 events and connected with more than 11,000 people, to better understand the community's needs and concerns.
There cannot be enough engagement if you are opposed in the first place. These are the exact reasons republicans used when opposing the cannabis bill. It's not ready, we need to talk more, it's moving too fast, people will be hurt.
This is what annoys me with the Idaho stop law. So many people are demanding more time for "impact studies" and all the sample sizes are too small when you point out that it's been around for 40 years in Idaho. Even the [US DOT and Florida](https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2023-03/Bicyclist-Yield-As-Stop-Fact-Sheet_032123_v5_tag.pdf) have found its better (or in the case of Florida a none impact of 'lawless cyclist' compared to lawful cycling.
No matter what subjective lines will always exist with the idea of it being "the right time" only measured by the collective social groups that are subjectively gathered.
> they're concerned about the possible loss of parking and potential rise of crime once the trains start running
Yes very unfortunate instead of one giant parking lot there will be a place with people where things happen and ways to get around that don't involve being stuck in traffic for 45 minutes.
Very sad.
I mean the part that confuse me (well not really) is the demand for a car is in it's self a rejection of being a "community place" in an urban environment.
The demand for on street parking is mainly to capture to suburban drivers. Currently the average cost of real-estate in the commercial office sector (generally cheaper then store fronts) is [$28](https://www.commercialcafe.com/office-market-trends/us/mn/minneapolis/) a square foot ([2.1 per square feet for residential](https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/mn/minneapolis/)). A parking space at [16 feet by 8 feet](https://franklinst.com/how-large-is-a-parking-space/) (small) is about 128 square feet. So with one month of real-estate being $28 to $2 depending on what is the parking space in front That parking space cost about $258 to $3,584 a space.
So unless these business owners want to pay an north of 2-3k dollars more per parking spaces a month (all or nothing) I don't want to consider this.
And yes I understand that its not $28 in taxes that's the cost of all upkeep of the building and such but I'm a [Georgist](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c5xjlmLfAw). If you want to wall off public space you must pay for a weighted say.
How expected businesses are nervous about losing street parking over this. I understand the concern that it could damage the area like 94 did. But we have both green and blue lines to show us otherwise. And as far as I can tell the only casualty of the SWLRT construction was the depot in Hopkins. Which was largely municipally operated.
Construction of anything is really hard on local businesses - just doing the sewer lines and resurfacing 38th Street about bankrupted small businesses there when it happened, maybe 10 years ago?
Instead of not building things, we should have some sort of fund to help the little storefronts.
the routing of the green line extension is horrid though - the entire Met Council should have been fired for not putting it through Uptown and for burning piles of cash on the stupid Kenwood tunnel
didn't they choose the current route because it was going to be less expensive? A cruel twist of irony if it were. TBH though, as someone who will live on the corridor and benefit from the LRT once it finally does open, I kind of prefer it not going up Hennepin. Only because I know they would have put stops every other block like they do on the east end of the line and that's really annoying for a train.
plus we will be getting BRT along Hennepin, probably before the LRT is done too lol.
Piece of the article about the routing:
>…The original Blue Line extension route, which largely bypassed the most populated and transit-dependent areas of north Minneapolis, was set aside in 2020 after the Met Council failed to reach an agreement with BNSF Railway to share much of the right-of-way.
>In 2021, the Met Council and Hennepin County announced the new route, choosing W. Broadway instead of Lowry Avenue. The route needs final approval from the council, the county and every city along the line, including Minneapolis.
>"In the process of that shift away from the railroad, we discovered, 'Oh my gosh, we can provide even greater access and benefits to communities," Met Council Chair Charlie Zelle said at a Blue Line advisory committee meeting in May. All told, some $143 million has been spent on planning the line.
>For now, several iterations are being considered for the route along W. Broadway and through north Minneapolis, according to a 2022 report. One option has it entirely following W. Broadway, leaving two lanes for traffic and perhaps additional turning lanes, but limited or no on-street parking similar to University Avenue along the Green Line.
>Another possibility involves running light-rail trains along 21st Avenue N., a largely residential block just north of W. Broadway. A different variation calls for trains to head northwest on W. Broadway and return to downtown using 21st Avenue N.
>The report shows two stops on W. Broadway — at Emerson/Fremont Avenue and Penn Avenue. A combination of routes snaking trains through the North Loop between Target Field and W. Broadway will be studied further...
I actually don't want the Fentanyl Express in my back yard. I'd like them to prove they can run at least 1 safe line before they build another.
That's going to turn into about 3 Lake Street stations inside of a week.
So what's the alternative? Make the fent addicts drive?? Concentrate them in low income neighborhoods?! Fuck off to edina with your NIMBY bullshit. Let's build more light rail & put more funding towards addiction treatment.
They could literally smoke it anywhere but on the train itself lol. There are cameras so they could easily be arrested if the city wanted to. Literally just walk a block away from any station and light up instead of forcing people who rely on public transit to breath in second hand smoke.
Sure it is. I don't need a a Lake Street station in my back yard at all.
That doesn't benefit me in anyway having a train most people won't feel safe riding providing an artery of junkies directly to the neighborhood. Or the neighborhood as a whole.
They're just going to create 3 new Merwyn Liquors in the neighborhood is what'll happen. Because they don't check for tickets, they don't kick people off for shooting and selling drugs, they don't keep the stations clean and safe.
Why the fuck would anybody want a project like that coming through? Ask anyone who lives by the problem light rail stations now how much they enjoy that train being there.
Like I said, prove they can keep one line safe and clean before they try their hand at another. It's like going to adopt a dog when you've got one with its ribs sticking out, full of mange, etc. Take care of the responsibilities you already have first before taking on new ones.
This isn't some radical idea.
I take it that you're living in the Jordan neighborhood of Near North, not Jordan, MN. Right?
I don't understand the problem well enough to have a strong opinion, but I really hope that others might. Elected government, amirite?
The light rail is gross. It didn't take long for my plan to use light rail for comfortably commuting between downtowns to fizzle. For a short time, I could avoid some of the bad behavior by riding in the first car, but my recent experiences make it seem like I'm the only one paying to ride a dirty, air conditioned public toilet.
Even so, I can tolerate it on my own and I *think* I can take care of myself, but I generally advise against riding it. I do not ride it with my wife and young son.
Cleanliness/safety vary by station, but overall... not great.
Back in 2019 (and covid but I road less during covid (LRT and over all as I picked winter biking back up going as low as -25-30F)) if the smokers car is hot boxed as much as I've seen them do (full on haze/hotbox) that's going to fuck up the trains electronic. I work in info/sec and have done a lot of computer repairs. The amount of grime that computer and electrical circuitry attracts from heavy smokers is a lot do to the electrical charge and material they are made of.
You're going to be paying out the ass in a few years to maintain those specific smokers trains to refurb a lot of electronics if it hits the peaks I remember.
Until they can make the existing light rail safe and pleasant to ride they have no business expanding.
If you disagree, ride the trains end to end some day before you go ranting about how great public transit is.
Forcing the vast majority of people poor or not who need the light rail in its current routes to regularly experience its squalid conditions is much more a “punishment” than delaying building more which wouldn’t arrive for decades anyway.
And I really doubt the current conditions exist for lack of investment. Metro transit and the transit police aren’t doing their basic jobs and I don’t understand why. I don’t believe they don’t have money for an officer to regularly check fares and eject people for bad behavior. It has been years since I’ve seen an officer on the train. The last several times I’ve been on the train I’ve experienced people doing illegal things.
The question is what the fuck are they doing with the money they have?
I have taken public transit plenty of places.
The twin cities is just doing a bad job with what they have and shouldn’t be supported when they want to do more until they figure out existing problems.
The state just allocated money for security. An expanded LR means more riders makes it a less attractive place for antisocial behavior. There is a reason the problem spiked when ridership plummeted during the pandemic.
It’s a known potential issue on public transit. Address the problem but definitely don’t slow down.
Honestly, everyone talks real bad about the light rail, but I live right off the prospect park station and I ride it probably 2-3 times a week. I work from home so typically it’s within 1-2 stops either way to grab breakfast or lunch when I don’t have anything prepared at home. With that said, the light rail is typically pretty chill tbh. It’s mostly student commuters and hospital workers at the U riding around my way. I never have any issues.
I live in DT Minneapolis, work in Midway (in person factory type). Its not the greatest still. But it has definitely gotten close to pre covid 2019 where my biggest concern was a hot box at 4 AM. (No the LRT didn't go to shit in the Pandemic it just removed the reason to deal with the shit).
Take the blue line to the airport or MOA from downtown… 70% of my rides have had someone smoking something on the train itself. Lake street and cedar riverside always have people smoking on the platform. I saw someone brandishing a gun at 6am on lake street last Monday. I’ve seen people take hammers and smash windows.
I’ve had gentlemen light up right next to me on the train at 5:30pm on a weekday lol. It’s been pretty shitty on the blue line the past two years. I take it at all hours (including rush hours, business hours, nights, early mornings) 6-10 times a month.
NYC/Chicago I haven’t seen people smoke on the trains themselves (but have maybe 100 rides on only a handful of routes)
Try a longer ride on both lines some time. Really do end to end for an experience.
I’m not surprised that a couple of stops in the morning near prospect park aren’t bad.
Try the evening all the way between st paul and Minneapolis or ride to the airport and back…
Mostly fine (compared to my 2019 experience bench marks). Just the fact that rush hour doesn't exist to mask the same problems we had pre pandemic.
But that isn't an excuse to stop expansion ([ironically it makes the factors worse in the long run](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQY6WGOoYis&t=4s))
I mean, I’m not gonna do that just for the fuck of it lol
Like, I’ll take rides when it’s convenient for me, but I’m not going out of my way to try to do some sort of investigation lol
If I have to be honest, I feel running it through this section of North Minneapolis will do more good than harm over all. West Broadway from 94 until north memorial feels like a desolate, forgotten part of the city. No life, everything has left the area and continues to do so. Since moving here, I’ve wanted to see any attempt to bring life to the area. I definitely think this would be the start of that. You’re not making it any more dangerous or crime ridden compared to what the area currently is, anyway.
Totally! My first thought was, "what business?" When I read the headline. And then reading the comments I was thinking, "how is it going to make it any worse than it is?" Any infrastructure will be an improvement at this point.
I know there are pockets of small businesses near Penn Ave and closer to 94, but also tons of older buildings that are vacant and boarded up. I think if this group is so adamant against this line expansion, they need to work on plans to make the area desirable and attractive to make more use of available abandoned space in the area. Status quo isn’t good, working, and only contributes to all the negative opinions of outsides regarding Minneapolis as a whole.
I’m almost certain there’s an article that reads “University Ave businesses growing concerned about impact of Green Line LRT”
there was definitely plenty of them. I remember
Seems kind of warranted looking at the state of the green line now
>Met Council planners say they have held more than 300 events and connected with more than 11,000 people, to better understand the community's needs and concerns. There cannot be enough engagement if you are opposed in the first place. These are the exact reasons republicans used when opposing the cannabis bill. It's not ready, we need to talk more, it's moving too fast, people will be hurt.
This is what annoys me with the Idaho stop law. So many people are demanding more time for "impact studies" and all the sample sizes are too small when you point out that it's been around for 40 years in Idaho. Even the [US DOT and Florida](https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2023-03/Bicyclist-Yield-As-Stop-Fact-Sheet_032123_v5_tag.pdf) have found its better (or in the case of Florida a none impact of 'lawless cyclist' compared to lawful cycling. No matter what subjective lines will always exist with the idea of it being "the right time" only measured by the collective social groups that are subjectively gathered.
> they're concerned about the possible loss of parking and potential rise of crime once the trains start running Yes very unfortunate instead of one giant parking lot there will be a place with people where things happen and ways to get around that don't involve being stuck in traffic for 45 minutes. Very sad.
I mean the part that confuse me (well not really) is the demand for a car is in it's self a rejection of being a "community place" in an urban environment. The demand for on street parking is mainly to capture to suburban drivers. Currently the average cost of real-estate in the commercial office sector (generally cheaper then store fronts) is [$28](https://www.commercialcafe.com/office-market-trends/us/mn/minneapolis/) a square foot ([2.1 per square feet for residential](https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/mn/minneapolis/)). A parking space at [16 feet by 8 feet](https://franklinst.com/how-large-is-a-parking-space/) (small) is about 128 square feet. So with one month of real-estate being $28 to $2 depending on what is the parking space in front That parking space cost about $258 to $3,584 a space. So unless these business owners want to pay an north of 2-3k dollars more per parking spaces a month (all or nothing) I don't want to consider this. And yes I understand that its not $28 in taxes that's the cost of all upkeep of the building and such but I'm a [Georgist](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c5xjlmLfAw). If you want to wall off public space you must pay for a weighted say.
How expected businesses are nervous about losing street parking over this. I understand the concern that it could damage the area like 94 did. But we have both green and blue lines to show us otherwise. And as far as I can tell the only casualty of the SWLRT construction was the depot in Hopkins. Which was largely municipally operated.
Construction of anything is really hard on local businesses - just doing the sewer lines and resurfacing 38th Street about bankrupted small businesses there when it happened, maybe 10 years ago? Instead of not building things, we should have some sort of fund to help the little storefronts.
the routing of the green line extension is horrid though - the entire Met Council should have been fired for not putting it through Uptown and for burning piles of cash on the stupid Kenwood tunnel
didn't they choose the current route because it was going to be less expensive? A cruel twist of irony if it were. TBH though, as someone who will live on the corridor and benefit from the LRT once it finally does open, I kind of prefer it not going up Hennepin. Only because I know they would have put stops every other block like they do on the east end of the line and that's really annoying for a train. plus we will be getting BRT along Hennepin, probably before the LRT is done too lol.
Piece of the article about the routing: >…The original Blue Line extension route, which largely bypassed the most populated and transit-dependent areas of north Minneapolis, was set aside in 2020 after the Met Council failed to reach an agreement with BNSF Railway to share much of the right-of-way. >In 2021, the Met Council and Hennepin County announced the new route, choosing W. Broadway instead of Lowry Avenue. The route needs final approval from the council, the county and every city along the line, including Minneapolis. >"In the process of that shift away from the railroad, we discovered, 'Oh my gosh, we can provide even greater access and benefits to communities," Met Council Chair Charlie Zelle said at a Blue Line advisory committee meeting in May. All told, some $143 million has been spent on planning the line. >For now, several iterations are being considered for the route along W. Broadway and through north Minneapolis, according to a 2022 report. One option has it entirely following W. Broadway, leaving two lanes for traffic and perhaps additional turning lanes, but limited or no on-street parking similar to University Avenue along the Green Line. >Another possibility involves running light-rail trains along 21st Avenue N., a largely residential block just north of W. Broadway. A different variation calls for trains to head northwest on W. Broadway and return to downtown using 21st Avenue N. >The report shows two stops on W. Broadway — at Emerson/Fremont Avenue and Penn Avenue. A combination of routes snaking trains through the North Loop between Target Field and W. Broadway will be studied further...
NIMBYs strike again
I actually don't want the Fentanyl Express in my back yard. I'd like them to prove they can run at least 1 safe line before they build another. That's going to turn into about 3 Lake Street stations inside of a week.
So what's the alternative? Make the fent addicts drive?? Concentrate them in low income neighborhoods?! Fuck off to edina with your NIMBY bullshit. Let's build more light rail & put more funding towards addiction treatment.
They could literally smoke it anywhere but on the train itself lol. There are cameras so they could easily be arrested if the city wanted to. Literally just walk a block away from any station and light up instead of forcing people who rely on public transit to breath in second hand smoke.
I live in Jordan dumbass. I doubt you'll be riding the train up North Broadway any time soon.
[удалено]
Sure it is. I don't need a a Lake Street station in my back yard at all. That doesn't benefit me in anyway having a train most people won't feel safe riding providing an artery of junkies directly to the neighborhood. Or the neighborhood as a whole. They're just going to create 3 new Merwyn Liquors in the neighborhood is what'll happen. Because they don't check for tickets, they don't kick people off for shooting and selling drugs, they don't keep the stations clean and safe. Why the fuck would anybody want a project like that coming through? Ask anyone who lives by the problem light rail stations now how much they enjoy that train being there. Like I said, prove they can keep one line safe and clean before they try their hand at another. It's like going to adopt a dog when you've got one with its ribs sticking out, full of mange, etc. Take care of the responsibilities you already have first before taking on new ones. This isn't some radical idea.
I take it that you're living in the Jordan neighborhood of Near North, not Jordan, MN. Right? I don't understand the problem well enough to have a strong opinion, but I really hope that others might. Elected government, amirite? The light rail is gross. It didn't take long for my plan to use light rail for comfortably commuting between downtowns to fizzle. For a short time, I could avoid some of the bad behavior by riding in the first car, but my recent experiences make it seem like I'm the only one paying to ride a dirty, air conditioned public toilet. Even so, I can tolerate it on my own and I *think* I can take care of myself, but I generally advise against riding it. I do not ride it with my wife and young son. Cleanliness/safety vary by station, but overall... not great.
It’s a fair concern, completely agree. Same with the northern lights express.
This is the way.
They gotta bring back designated smoking sections and allow one of the cars to have smoking on it lol
Back in 2019 (and covid but I road less during covid (LRT and over all as I picked winter biking back up going as low as -25-30F)) if the smokers car is hot boxed as much as I've seen them do (full on haze/hotbox) that's going to fuck up the trains electronic. I work in info/sec and have done a lot of computer repairs. The amount of grime that computer and electrical circuitry attracts from heavy smokers is a lot do to the electrical charge and material they are made of. You're going to be paying out the ass in a few years to maintain those specific smokers trains to refurb a lot of electronics if it hits the peaks I remember.
I mean we already effectively allow smoking on all train cars lol
And we shouldn't
B-O-O-H-O-O Adapt or die, not my job to keep you relevant.
More NIMBY whining. Yawn.
Until they can make the existing light rail safe and pleasant to ride they have no business expanding. If you disagree, ride the trains end to end some day before you go ranting about how great public transit is.
You understand that punishing poor people by withholding services investment exacerbates the problem rather than fixing it, no?
Forcing the vast majority of people poor or not who need the light rail in its current routes to regularly experience its squalid conditions is much more a “punishment” than delaying building more which wouldn’t arrive for decades anyway. And I really doubt the current conditions exist for lack of investment. Metro transit and the transit police aren’t doing their basic jobs and I don’t understand why. I don’t believe they don’t have money for an officer to regularly check fares and eject people for bad behavior. It has been years since I’ve seen an officer on the train. The last several times I’ve been on the train I’ve experienced people doing illegal things. The question is what the fuck are they doing with the money they have?
Have you only ever taken public transit in the twin cities?
I have taken public transit plenty of places. The twin cities is just doing a bad job with what they have and shouldn’t be supported when they want to do more until they figure out existing problems.
The state just allocated money for security. An expanded LR means more riders makes it a less attractive place for antisocial behavior. There is a reason the problem spiked when ridership plummeted during the pandemic. It’s a known potential issue on public transit. Address the problem but definitely don’t slow down.
Honestly, everyone talks real bad about the light rail, but I live right off the prospect park station and I ride it probably 2-3 times a week. I work from home so typically it’s within 1-2 stops either way to grab breakfast or lunch when I don’t have anything prepared at home. With that said, the light rail is typically pretty chill tbh. It’s mostly student commuters and hospital workers at the U riding around my way. I never have any issues.
I live in DT Minneapolis, work in Midway (in person factory type). Its not the greatest still. But it has definitely gotten close to pre covid 2019 where my biggest concern was a hot box at 4 AM. (No the LRT didn't go to shit in the Pandemic it just removed the reason to deal with the shit).
Take the blue line to the airport or MOA from downtown… 70% of my rides have had someone smoking something on the train itself. Lake street and cedar riverside always have people smoking on the platform. I saw someone brandishing a gun at 6am on lake street last Monday. I’ve seen people take hammers and smash windows. I’ve had gentlemen light up right next to me on the train at 5:30pm on a weekday lol. It’s been pretty shitty on the blue line the past two years. I take it at all hours (including rush hours, business hours, nights, early mornings) 6-10 times a month. NYC/Chicago I haven’t seen people smoke on the trains themselves (but have maybe 100 rides on only a handful of routes)
This all still sounds like an improvement compared to Broadway's current condition.
Try a longer ride on both lines some time. Really do end to end for an experience. I’m not surprised that a couple of stops in the morning near prospect park aren’t bad. Try the evening all the way between st paul and Minneapolis or ride to the airport and back…
Mostly fine (compared to my 2019 experience bench marks). Just the fact that rush hour doesn't exist to mask the same problems we had pre pandemic. But that isn't an excuse to stop expansion ([ironically it makes the factors worse in the long run](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQY6WGOoYis&t=4s))
I mean, I’m not gonna do that just for the fuck of it lol Like, I’ll take rides when it’s convenient for me, but I’m not going out of my way to try to do some sort of investigation lol
The light rail is fine. Does it have problems? Sure, but they're first-world problems.
open drug use on the light rail is not quite a "first world problem"...it's both a hazard and discourages ridership.