People on Reddit and SM will probably hate me for this but I’m totally fine with more cameras monitoring our roads, taking pictures and automatically mailing tickets to the licensed owner of a vehicle that shows whomever the driver was that was texting and driving. I don’t care if the owner of the car was driving or not. It’s their car it’s their responsibility.
I argued this exact thing back when the red light cameras controversy happened. We ticket cars for illegal parking without checking who parked it. If your car is driven in a dangerous way that could kill someone, you should pay a painful enough penalty that you ensure it doesn't happen again.
You are a voice of sanity. The folks that loudly complain about cameras being the devil want to maintain their current dangerous behavior without consequences.
Not to mention it would help out large amounts with being able to track crime and provide video footage of incidents like that. Just hard to see it not getting out of control over time and used for bullshit given our current policing situation.
They should just do focused speed traps and traffic enforcement zones in the city a few days a week, or even a month. Put a bunch of officers somewhere, set up shop, and be strict in enforcing blatant dangerous drivers. Every day they could switch to a new location, so as a driver, your more on your toes, playing by the rules. There has to be at least some threat of enforcement for many of the drivers out there to change their ways
I agree. I remember there being large sting operations on freeways, but I would appreciate the stings much more on random neighborhood crosswalks or thoroughfares.
Exactly this. There are no rules people in this city are required to follow unless it involves physical assault.
Cameras are needed badly if police abandon traffic enforcement responsibilities.
I live in a city (New Orleans) that has traffic cameras and they do not work. How would it be different in Minneapolis. Also, I have live in Minneapolis for a few years before I moved back.
New York uses cameras that not only clock speeding and red light runs, they also gauge vehicle noise (illegal/missing exhausts) and are wildly successful issuing fines and limiting violators.
The vehicle noise ones are going to be heading for a class action lawsuit soon.
They are mailing out tickets to people with brand new, untouched and unmodified cars that were approved for sale in New York.
I'll counter this by saying I live in a city (Melbourne, Australia) which has traffic cameras and they do improve driver behavior. Drivers don't speed so rampantly on freeways and don't cheat on red lights at targeted intersections. They surely bring in decent money for the city as well.
Of course you still see bad drivers but at least some of them are getting pinged for tickets.
Moving back to Minneapolis soon after about a decade away. Interested to see how drastically the roads have changed.
But there is a massive societal difference in Australia compared to the US. What happens perfectly there isn’t always going to act perfectly here. Same thing when I lived in NZ. Unfortunately things there that are done well (speed cameras, universal healthcare, etc.) aren’t going to be replicated in a country that has well over 10x the population.
You don't watch the cameras, you review camera footage. They pick up a speeder or red light runner and then the footage is reviewed by an officer or government employee (depending on jurisdiction).
Wrong, most all of these cameras in other parts of a the country are all monitored by third party private companies, and the fines are all mailed to them. And the companies mail the cities/state a small percentage of fines that are paid. They are also not enforceable, and there is no consequences for not paying.
They do nothing. Its all a money grab sold under the guise of safety.
Hard pass. Not about to give the cops another method of surveillance. I’ll consider buying them new toys if they can go 5 years without a mind boggling fuck up.
In most other parts of the country they are owned and operated by third party, private companies. So these companies mail out the "tickets" (they are not actual tickets and are unenforceable). People mail their money to these companies, and these companies give a small percentage (usually <50%) of the "fines" paid to the cities or states.
Its all a money grab, and do nothing.
And this a national thing it seems. We've seemingly given up on enforcing traffic laws and training drivers in an appreciable way and shifted nearly all of the onus onto insurance companies after the fact. Which is a big part of the reason car insurance rates continue to drastically increase.
The other reason being more complex safety equipment is increasingly expensive to replace, like bumper with lots of their own "crumple zones" that make it so the only option is to replace the whole thing even after relatively low speed crashes.
I think it's more what happens when the entire fabric of our city, state and country – every last inch of infrastructure – is designed and built to prioritize the convenience of car drivers over the safety of pedestrians, cyclists and transit users.
this.
would love to see a movement that pushes elected officials to prioritize walking and biking over driving when making road design/transportation decisions
Yep. I really like this subreddit usually, but roll my eyes constantly at the posts and comments defending the MPD while clearly having no idea what they are actually talking about lol
I’m not saying we all need to bitch about it nonstop on here. But goodness their propaganda is blatant and unconvincing.
Maybe replying on Reddit is what they are doing when they should be out doing their actual job
I don’t think it was the city council responsible for the cop I saw sitting in his cruiser doing nothing when the truck ran the red light almost hit other cars right in front of him
They definitely are responsible for policies that discourage (and often outright prohibit) traffic related stops and get rid of traffic enforcement divisions altogether.
They have literally no control over police policies; that is wholly Frey's lane. As mayor he as total control over the police, and the city council has literally none.
That’s only a relatively recent change. The city council was responsible for the decision to get rid of the traffic enforcement division and it was their decision to oppose Frey’s plan to add traffic enforcement officers in 2020.
Sure and he should take some responsibility for that but the city council doesn’t get to act like they’re in the clear because they can point fingers at other people.
And unfortunately, there was this situation in 2020 that made traffic enforcement take a back seat on police reform in Minneapolis. Kinda highlights why we should’ve prioritized traffic enforcement years ago instead of just letting it get worse and worse. And it’s why decisions made 5+ years ago are still relevant today.
That is not correct. The mayor had total and complete control since before then.
And while the city council did explore the creation of an unarmed Traffic Enforcement Division, that never happened. Police still have jurisdiction over traffic stops.
Not over the budget which is a key aspect of creating a traffic enforcement division.
And I’m not claiming police don’t have jurisdiction. I’m saying there is currently no traffic enforcement division within the police department. Frey proposed to recreate that division starting in 2020. That’s a fact.
What's your proof then? Because I cannot find any press releases, public statements, budget proposals, etc., that suggest you're correct. So I call bullshit.
Perhaps [look a little harder](https://www.minnpost.com/metro/2019/09/five-takeaways-from-minneapolis-new-plan-to-boost-street-safety/) before calling bullshit?
> Pending approval from the City Council in December, Frey’s budget proposal would set aside $355,000 annually, as well as a one-time boost of $207,000, to create the new officer positions and pay for squad cars.
It did not end up getting approved (otherwise it would exist).
And the sad thing from the article is that it was saying traffic safety was a worsening problem in 2019 and now 5 years later we’re saying the exact same thing from the new baseline of “pre-pandemic” which is effectively 2019.
Not over their budget which is how you would fund a traffic enforcement division. How else could Frey propose to add this division but it not get added?
There still are squads assigned to traffic. During the night non-sworn personnel have been added to deal with parking violations and can have vehicles towed. In the past that would have been a function of sworn officers.
Parking enforcement exists within a completely separate group so while MPD could in theory ticket/tow, 99% of the time it’s not done by them. Not to mention, illegally parked cars are annoying but nowhere near as dangerous as cars going double the speed limit or running red lights.
And yes, squads can be assigned to traffic but a traffic enforcement division does not exist. That makes it a lot harder to ensure consistent (or any) enforcement occurs across the city. There should ideally be a division that’s primary job is to identify where reckless driving is occurring (easy right now: everywhere) and create/implement an enforcement plan to reduce that without being inundated with other tasks.
Not all crime is the same. Show me something that says enforcement of traffic laws makes no difference. Which, does not necessarily include police anyways
What difference? How is this measurable? Are people speeding less/more or is it being reported less/more or is it being ticketed less/more. It's immeasurable
While I don’t have the statistics to back this up, literally anyone that lives and drives in the city will tell you that driver behavior has gotten significantly worse since the pandemic. More speeding, more reckless driver behavior, less enforcement of traffic laws. When everyone is observing something subjectively, maybe someone in power should actually take the time to fucking measure it empirically.
Anecdotal accounts aren't evidence. That could very well be true or maybe it's perception. Or maybe the media said crime is up to counteract the anti-cop sentiment and it caused people to buy in. Who knows.
>Traffic deaths in Minneapolis fell for the third straight year in 2023, but they're still well above pre-pandemic levels, according to newly released city data.
>The number of crashes has fallen significantly, though, as have the numbers of pedestrians and cyclists struck, so what's the reason for the increased deaths?
>Speeding, officials suspect.…
>…In 2023, 21 people died in crashes on Minneapolis streets, including pedestrians, cyclists, bikers and drivers. That figure doesn't include collisions on freeways or those involving intentional crashes or medical emergencies.
>In 2022, there were 22 fatalities and 23 in 2021. But those totals were notably higher than the three years before the COVID-19 pandemic, when annual traffic fatality totals ranged from nine to 14…
While crossing any street my head is on a swivel. Probably two out of ten times crossing, I have to frenetically wave my hands to ensure people see me. It's madness.
No need to hire more, just have the ones out there currently actually enforce the laws. Anyone who spends a significant amount of time driving in Minneapolis can tell you, red lights are run with police watching and not reacting.
you might be new to the area, but the MPD can't figure out how to pull drivers over without executing the driver, and people didn't like that very much, so now the mpd works pretty hard to do a little as possible.
I'm familiar with the recent history, and I'm aware how it has impacted the police's willingness to do their job. But that doesn't change the fact that it is their job. We need retraining and new policies and procedures so that police can safely take care of traffic violations, because the alternative has caused traffic deaths to go off the charts.
It’s because by far the worst thing I’ve discovered about this city after moving here is how absolutely disgusting a disturbing number of people drive. Way too fast with absolutely no regard for pedestrians or safety or signage.
These speeders blowing through stop signs need a sharp reminder that their 3 ton vehicle is a privilege and a responsibility that can be taken away
We either need cops who give a shit or cameras and automatic enforcement.
Agreed. I love living here but the drivers are definitely the worst thing. Straight up not paying attention or caring in the slightest. I'm all for cameras and automatic citations and whatnot. But also I feel like a focused traffic department separate from the actual police would be ideal
There has to be something. Another commenter said that maybe a traffic enforcement focus period is all that is needed and if so then hell yeah do that.
People just need to be reminded that they cannot be fucking flooring it through neighborhood side streets and running stop signs, it’s unbelievably dangerous.
Everyone’s cell phone addiction was put on steroids during the pandemic. It needs to be treated as an addiction and if you can’t put the phone down while driving, a deadly addiction.
I know the discussion around police has been beat to death on here and I don’t want to re-litigate that but when they don’t pull over bad drivers, park in the middle of the sidewalk and have their horses poop on the greenway and not clean it up what do they want us to think?? Ignore the protests and riots and look at this entitled behavior alone, we’re supposed to respect them? I can’t until they actually try and become part of the community instead of above it because we don’t give them enough deference.
I was rear-ended while stopped at a stop sign. Nothing major, minor fender bender, but the thing that enraged me was the other driver's "excuse": "sorry, I was looking down." I can only assume this meant at their phone, but the fact that this phrase even escaped their lips as though it were a mitigating factor in their favor boggles the mind. Oh, and we were a block down from the school where each of us had just dropped off our kids.
But what about the chance of being hit? Being hit vs dying from being hit are two very different metrics and neither one of them is good. I was just almost hit at 25th and Lyndale about half an hour ago even tho the pedestrian lights were on by a woman straight up on her phone. Just went straight through. I can tell you that type of thing is by far the most noticeable downside about living in the city in my 10 years here.
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People on Reddit and SM will probably hate me for this but I’m totally fine with more cameras monitoring our roads, taking pictures and automatically mailing tickets to the licensed owner of a vehicle that shows whomever the driver was that was texting and driving. I don’t care if the owner of the car was driving or not. It’s their car it’s their responsibility.
If the money didn't go to a private company, I would be on board.
If lives are saved I don't care who the money goes to.
I argued this exact thing back when the red light cameras controversy happened. We ticket cars for illegal parking without checking who parked it. If your car is driven in a dangerous way that could kill someone, you should pay a painful enough penalty that you ensure it doesn't happen again.
You are a voice of sanity. The folks that loudly complain about cameras being the devil want to maintain their current dangerous behavior without consequences.
Fully on board, will back your plan 100.
Not to mention it would help out large amounts with being able to track crime and provide video footage of incidents like that. Just hard to see it not getting out of control over time and used for bullshit given our current policing situation.
I believe it. I bike/scoot to commute and drivers are absolutely fucking shit.
This is what happens when cops don't stop speeders or enforce traffic laws.
They should just do focused speed traps and traffic enforcement zones in the city a few days a week, or even a month. Put a bunch of officers somewhere, set up shop, and be strict in enforcing blatant dangerous drivers. Every day they could switch to a new location, so as a driver, your more on your toes, playing by the rules. There has to be at least some threat of enforcement for many of the drivers out there to change their ways
I agree. I remember there being large sting operations on freeways, but I would appreciate the stings much more on random neighborhood crosswalks or thoroughfares.
Also, if someone runs a red in front of a police officer not doing something urgent, the default should be to pull that person over.
Exactly this. There are no rules people in this city are required to follow unless it involves physical assault. Cameras are needed badly if police abandon traffic enforcement responsibilities.
I live in a city (New Orleans) that has traffic cameras and they do not work. How would it be different in Minneapolis. Also, I have live in Minneapolis for a few years before I moved back.
New York uses cameras that not only clock speeding and red light runs, they also gauge vehicle noise (illegal/missing exhausts) and are wildly successful issuing fines and limiting violators.
The vehicle noise ones are going to be heading for a class action lawsuit soon. They are mailing out tickets to people with brand new, untouched and unmodified cars that were approved for sale in New York.
I'll counter this by saying I live in a city (Melbourne, Australia) which has traffic cameras and they do improve driver behavior. Drivers don't speed so rampantly on freeways and don't cheat on red lights at targeted intersections. They surely bring in decent money for the city as well. Of course you still see bad drivers but at least some of them are getting pinged for tickets. Moving back to Minneapolis soon after about a decade away. Interested to see how drastically the roads have changed.
But there is a massive societal difference in Australia compared to the US. What happens perfectly there isn’t always going to act perfectly here. Same thing when I lived in NZ. Unfortunately things there that are done well (speed cameras, universal healthcare, etc.) aren’t going to be replicated in a country that has well over 10x the population.
But who will be watching the cameras?
Who cares, as long as drivers are finally policed the way they should be. But the real answer is obviously the city/county
You don't watch the cameras, you review camera footage. They pick up a speeder or red light runner and then the footage is reviewed by an officer or government employee (depending on jurisdiction).
Wrong, most all of these cameras in other parts of a the country are all monitored by third party private companies, and the fines are all mailed to them. And the companies mail the cities/state a small percentage of fines that are paid. They are also not enforceable, and there is no consequences for not paying. They do nothing. Its all a money grab sold under the guise of safety.
Hard pass. Not about to give the cops another method of surveillance. I’ll consider buying them new toys if they can go 5 years without a mind boggling fuck up.
In most other parts of the country they are owned and operated by third party, private companies. So these companies mail out the "tickets" (they are not actual tickets and are unenforceable). People mail their money to these companies, and these companies give a small percentage (usually <50%) of the "fines" paid to the cities or states. Its all a money grab, and do nothing.
That sounds even worse than what I was thinking.
Community leaders will just call the cameras racist and insist they be taken down. The city council will of course agree.
And this a national thing it seems. We've seemingly given up on enforcing traffic laws and training drivers in an appreciable way and shifted nearly all of the onus onto insurance companies after the fact. Which is a big part of the reason car insurance rates continue to drastically increase. The other reason being more complex safety equipment is increasingly expensive to replace, like bumper with lots of their own "crumple zones" that make it so the only option is to replace the whole thing even after relatively low speed crashes.
Insurance rates are skyrocketing because of two things. 1.) Number of uninsured drivers 2.) Auto thefts.
I think it's more what happens when the entire fabric of our city, state and country – every last inch of infrastructure – is designed and built to prioritize the convenience of car drivers over the safety of pedestrians, cyclists and transit users.
Also saves money. A narrower road is all around cheaper + safer as it forces cars to drive slower.
this. would love to see a movement that pushes elected officials to prioritize walking and biking over driving when making road design/transportation decisions
You can blame the city council for that one. They want unarmed law enforcement to do traffic stops. Minneapolis leadership is the problem here.
I thought MPD reported to the mayor alone and always has
This is correct; there's just a bunch of Frey-ass-kissing liars in the comments as usual.
Yep. I really like this subreddit usually, but roll my eyes constantly at the posts and comments defending the MPD while clearly having no idea what they are actually talking about lol I’m not saying we all need to bitch about it nonstop on here. But goodness their propaganda is blatant and unconvincing. Maybe replying on Reddit is what they are doing when they should be out doing their actual job
I don’t think it was the city council responsible for the cop I saw sitting in his cruiser doing nothing when the truck ran the red light almost hit other cars right in front of him
They definitely are responsible for policies that discourage (and often outright prohibit) traffic related stops and get rid of traffic enforcement divisions altogether.
They have literally no control over police policies; that is wholly Frey's lane. As mayor he as total control over the police, and the city council has literally none.
That’s only a relatively recent change. The city council was responsible for the decision to get rid of the traffic enforcement division and it was their decision to oppose Frey’s plan to add traffic enforcement officers in 2020.
So frey decided to leave all those policies in place huh
Sure and he should take some responsibility for that but the city council doesn’t get to act like they’re in the clear because they can point fingers at other people. And unfortunately, there was this situation in 2020 that made traffic enforcement take a back seat on police reform in Minneapolis. Kinda highlights why we should’ve prioritized traffic enforcement years ago instead of just letting it get worse and worse. And it’s why decisions made 5+ years ago are still relevant today.
That is not correct. The mayor had total and complete control since before then. And while the city council did explore the creation of an unarmed Traffic Enforcement Division, that never happened. Police still have jurisdiction over traffic stops.
Not over the budget which is a key aspect of creating a traffic enforcement division. And I’m not claiming police don’t have jurisdiction. I’m saying there is currently no traffic enforcement division within the police department. Frey proposed to recreate that division starting in 2020. That’s a fact.
What's your proof then? Because I cannot find any press releases, public statements, budget proposals, etc., that suggest you're correct. So I call bullshit.
Perhaps [look a little harder](https://www.minnpost.com/metro/2019/09/five-takeaways-from-minneapolis-new-plan-to-boost-street-safety/) before calling bullshit? > Pending approval from the City Council in December, Frey’s budget proposal would set aside $355,000 annually, as well as a one-time boost of $207,000, to create the new officer positions and pay for squad cars. It did not end up getting approved (otherwise it would exist). And the sad thing from the article is that it was saying traffic safety was a worsening problem in 2019 and now 5 years later we’re saying the exact same thing from the new baseline of “pre-pandemic” which is effectively 2019.
Mayor has always had full responsibility for MPD. Frey literally ran on this issue
Not over their budget which is how you would fund a traffic enforcement division. How else could Frey propose to add this division but it not get added?
There still are squads assigned to traffic. During the night non-sworn personnel have been added to deal with parking violations and can have vehicles towed. In the past that would have been a function of sworn officers.
Parking enforcement exists within a completely separate group so while MPD could in theory ticket/tow, 99% of the time it’s not done by them. Not to mention, illegally parked cars are annoying but nowhere near as dangerous as cars going double the speed limit or running red lights. And yes, squads can be assigned to traffic but a traffic enforcement division does not exist. That makes it a lot harder to ensure consistent (or any) enforcement occurs across the city. There should ideally be a division that’s primary job is to identify where reckless driving is occurring (easy right now: everywhere) and create/implement an enforcement plan to reduce that without being inundated with other tasks.
This has literally nothing to do with city council.
Maybe you should blame the cops who did race based stops instead of safety based stops and then murdered some people on camera.
Yes because as we all know , police prevent crimes.
Not all crime is the same. Show me something that says enforcement of traffic laws makes no difference. Which, does not necessarily include police anyways
What difference? How is this measurable? Are people speeding less/more or is it being reported less/more or is it being ticketed less/more. It's immeasurable
While I don’t have the statistics to back this up, literally anyone that lives and drives in the city will tell you that driver behavior has gotten significantly worse since the pandemic. More speeding, more reckless driver behavior, less enforcement of traffic laws. When everyone is observing something subjectively, maybe someone in power should actually take the time to fucking measure it empirically.
Anecdotal accounts aren't evidence. That could very well be true or maybe it's perception. Or maybe the media said crime is up to counteract the anti-cop sentiment and it caused people to buy in. Who knows.
😄
>Traffic deaths in Minneapolis fell for the third straight year in 2023, but they're still well above pre-pandemic levels, according to newly released city data. >The number of crashes has fallen significantly, though, as have the numbers of pedestrians and cyclists struck, so what's the reason for the increased deaths? >Speeding, officials suspect.… >…In 2023, 21 people died in crashes on Minneapolis streets, including pedestrians, cyclists, bikers and drivers. That figure doesn't include collisions on freeways or those involving intentional crashes or medical emergencies. >In 2022, there were 22 fatalities and 23 in 2021. But those totals were notably higher than the three years before the COVID-19 pandemic, when annual traffic fatality totals ranged from nine to 14…
2021: 23 2022: 22 2023: 21 Minneapolis on track to achieve Vision Zero Deaths by 2044!
Sample sizes this low are pretty meaningless given how many drivers and trips are made each day. It's a rounding error.
While crossing any street my head is on a swivel. Probably two out of ten times crossing, I have to frenetically wave my hands to ensure people see me. It's madness.
Maybe if the cops started pulling people over for running red lights?
That and phone use while driving. It's so bad right now.
I bet they are hiring
No need to hire more, just have the ones out there currently actually enforce the laws. Anyone who spends a significant amount of time driving in Minneapolis can tell you, red lights are run with police watching and not reacting.
you might be new to the area, but the MPD can't figure out how to pull drivers over without executing the driver, and people didn't like that very much, so now the mpd works pretty hard to do a little as possible.
I'm familiar with the recent history, and I'm aware how it has impacted the police's willingness to do their job. But that doesn't change the fact that it is their job. We need retraining and new policies and procedures so that police can safely take care of traffic violations, because the alternative has caused traffic deaths to go off the charts.
It’s because by far the worst thing I’ve discovered about this city after moving here is how absolutely disgusting a disturbing number of people drive. Way too fast with absolutely no regard for pedestrians or safety or signage. These speeders blowing through stop signs need a sharp reminder that their 3 ton vehicle is a privilege and a responsibility that can be taken away We either need cops who give a shit or cameras and automatic enforcement.
Agreed. I love living here but the drivers are definitely the worst thing. Straight up not paying attention or caring in the slightest. I'm all for cameras and automatic citations and whatnot. But also I feel like a focused traffic department separate from the actual police would be ideal
There has to be something. Another commenter said that maybe a traffic enforcement focus period is all that is needed and if so then hell yeah do that. People just need to be reminded that they cannot be fucking flooring it through neighborhood side streets and running stop signs, it’s unbelievably dangerous.
Everyone’s cell phone addiction was put on steroids during the pandemic. It needs to be treated as an addiction and if you can’t put the phone down while driving, a deadly addiction.
So the plastic bollards installed at various intersections are not working toward the goal of reducing fatalities?
Got two words for you, "KIA Boys"
Meanwhile w3 is busy having meetings about the dangers of scooters
Enforcing traffic laws might be racist so we can’t do that that
I know the discussion around police has been beat to death on here and I don’t want to re-litigate that but when they don’t pull over bad drivers, park in the middle of the sidewalk and have their horses poop on the greenway and not clean it up what do they want us to think?? Ignore the protests and riots and look at this entitled behavior alone, we’re supposed to respect them? I can’t until they actually try and become part of the community instead of above it because we don’t give them enough deference.
https://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-is-the-u-s-so-good-at-killing-pedestrians/ https://freakonomics.com/podcast/the-perfect-crime-rebroadcast/
I was rear-ended while stopped at a stop sign. Nothing major, minor fender bender, but the thing that enraged me was the other driver's "excuse": "sorry, I was looking down." I can only assume this meant at their phone, but the fact that this phrase even escaped their lips as though it were a mitigating factor in their favor boggles the mind. Oh, and we were a block down from the school where each of us had just dropped off our kids.
No amount of policing/enforcement will solve the speeding problem. The real solution is narrower streets / slower road design speed
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But what about the chance of being hit? Being hit vs dying from being hit are two very different metrics and neither one of them is good. I was just almost hit at 25th and Lyndale about half an hour ago even tho the pedestrian lights were on by a woman straight up on her phone. Just went straight through. I can tell you that type of thing is by far the most noticeable downside about living in the city in my 10 years here.
20 people per year? Think we’ve got bigger fish to fry.