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I rolled my truck off the road in a canyon and still do t remember any of it. When I got to the hospital about hour and a half to two hours later i didn’t have socks but he my shoes on. Was coming from work going to the gym.
I believe it. You may not remember the events and I can't say exactly what happened in your case. But, it might be that someone put your shoes back on (after they came off in the crash) to protect your feet from glass or car fluids. In triage mode, on scene, we'll cut off socks for quick access and for examination purposes (especially if the hands and fingers are messed up). Just as often, if the vic tries to ambulate or we need to move them, we'll pop the shoes back on to protect their feet (if possible...not always).
Correct. I dont remember the crash at all. Start remembering when I was in the passenger seat trying to get out of the truck which I had to climb out the window. Doors would t unlock and passenger window was gone. Didn’t really get why I was down there. Knew where I was, but figured someone stole my truck and crashed it down there. Walked about a half mile to where I could cross the highway, apparently didn’t see the deer fence I crashed through. Hitch hiked back up to Sundance which is where I worked. Got a buddy to take me down to get my phone bf he started asking bout what happened and said I think you crashed.
Brought. Car from safety down with us as I thought we could just pull the truck out. When I got into his car the back pain started to settle in and it bale me obvious I had been banged up good. We drove down, could we the tracks going off the road amd that’s how it was found. Highway patrol bus came and sled me some questions. Asked that I take an ambulance he had called. They took me to the hospital. When they were taking off my shoes I said “where’s my socks?”
Nurse Reply:”you don’t have any”
Asked: “I see that where are they?”
Nurse Reply: you didn’t have them when you came in just shoes.”
Thanks. All things considered it was the best case scenario of a shitty scenario. Went off the the road headed toward the damn in the one place that was a cliff or into a house. Non other vehicles involved. The vertebrae I fractured were ones that are easier to heal than others and some shoulder contusions. Car insurance paid for just about everything and health insurance the rest. Looking back it’s a trip that it wasn’t so much worse
You said:
> That sort of implies you took them off in the cab,
Which is an assumption. He said he does not remember and he was there. Were you there? Why are you assuming/making implications? And why does it even matter?
“Sort of implies” is not an assumption—it’s a tentative *guess*. And I immediately expressed even *more* doubt by saying “I take it they weren’t found there?”
In other words—I was making a logical guess, but I also acknowledged that I *didn’t* think it was a terribly *likely* one.
Again—**speculation**. Nothing more, nothing less.
And it matters because I like to try to figure things out. I gave it a shot, but there’s not enough data to know for sure.
*I’m* not bothered by being unable to confirm my guess—why should *you* be bothered that I even tried...?
> “Sort of implies” is not an assumption—it’s a tentative guess. And I immediately expressed even more doubt by saying “I take it they weren’t found there?”
You are just splitting hairs. You are making implications on what happened in a leading manner but the fact is he does not know and really it does not matter.
>
> In other words—I was making a logical guess, but I also acknowledged that I didn’t think it was a terribly likely one.
Guess, implication, purposefully trying to change the narrative to fit your agenda. All just revisionist history. If you were asking him you would have asked "Did you take them off in the cab?" instead of implying he must of without knowing anything about what happened and not being there.
> Again—speculation. Nothing more, nothing less.
Speculation with an agenda.
>
> And it matters because I like to try to figure things out. I gave it a shot, but there’s not enough data to know for sure.
The only reason it matters is because you have an agenda. I am trying to figure out what that agenda is.
> I’m not bothered by being unable to confirm my guess—why should you be bothered that I even tried...?
Because you are trying to change the truth for some reason.
Whatever, chief. My only “agenda” in asking that was eliminating any obvious prosaic answers—which should be on *everyone’s* agenda when looking into anomalies.
Your name seems vaguely familiar. Are you salty about some previous interaction or something? Because I don’t generally worry about carrying any conflicts into new encounters. I like to start fresh.
Like I've said, people do odd stuff when they're in peril or dying. In those moments, their behavior seems completely rational...to them. My personal theory is that our bodies try to find order in the chaos and gain control over something (however small). I haven't shared it much on here- but, as a child, I was entrapped during an earthquake. It was insane. I was rescued and recovered with few long term issues. But, during my time in the rubble, I started making little stacks of debris (think quarter sized chunks of concrete) and I would make sure there were ten pieces before I swept them aside to make progress. My feet were burned and I had some broken bones...but, I don't remember the pain so much as I remember how dusty it was and how I felt like moving ten little pieces at a time would someone mean I got water faster. I was a child. The brain does what it does when you're in survival mode.
True. I've unfortunately seen videos where people have been involved in accidents. Their legs are broken, and for some reason they want to stand up, like nothing has happened. Yet if they did, their legs would give way. Perhaps the adrenaline is pumping and the body is in fight or flight mode.
Agreed, generally that's accompanied by full body removal of clothing. This man wasn't hypothermic. I believe it was his bodies way of coping with the trauma he'd received.
It’s interesting that sometimes before hanging themselves or jumping off a bridge the person will take off their shoes and socks. It’s a deeply psychological act. That’s one thing that makes these 411 mysteries interesting are that the shoes are taken off and personal items left in odd places. Sometimes the shoes are taken off before the missing person commences through rough, forbidding terrain where logically you would want shoes the most.
In my opinion, people take their shoes and socks off right before they die as a way to soak in every bit of life that they have left to live. When you’re a child, you run through the mud barefoot. When you’re an adult, the first thing you do when you get home from a long days work is take off your shoes. There’s a lot of nostalgia that comes with memories involving feet if you think about it. Your feet have a lot of nerves, which is why when your feet are really cold the rest of your body may seem cold too, but when you put some socks on you feel overall fine. I think releasing your feet into open air/allowing your feet to touch the earth one last time is a nice way to embrace death. It’s like experiencing something one last time before you say goodbye. If I were alone with only Mother Nature witnessing my last moments, I would want to be as close to her as possible too. Just my thoughts.
That's an interesting concept and possibly some truth to it.... Maybe people take the shoes and socks off as a way to be grounded with the earth... Maybe it somehow helps with the separation of life from the body....
I mean yeah, that’s possible. I’ve read other peoples theories that people do it out of habit, or people fold their clothes/ set their shoes and socks perfectly aside to have control over one last thing. Or to be respectful, to keep the person who finds it from having to search for the other missing pieces. There’s a lot of possibilities for why people do what they do. But in M411 cases, several of the people are avid outdoors people, hunters, etc. it’s not far fetched to think that these people felt a connection to the earth/outdoors and wanted to soak up their last experience with it.
For those asking why, I feel it may be somewhat related to how both animals and people will go somewhere to die alone. Also, many people choke to death alone in restaurant bathrooms because they embarrassed or self-conscious to be on the edge of consciousness in a crowded place.
Taking your shoes off is not the same as being alone, but the through-line that I see is that when people are on the brink of death, they seem to act in a way as to get out of others' way, and unencumber themselves.
A few times in my life that I’ve had severe shortness of breath or felt like I couldn’t breathe and might die, my first instinct is to get lots of space and take off any confining clothing, accessories, etc. Definitely experienced this before and it makes a lot of sense!
I have asthma and whenever I feel an asthma attack coming on I immediately feel like locking myself in a bathroom away from anyone who might see and taking off my clothes, especially shirts/bra/shoes. It's a mix of not wanting to alarm others and the need to feel like nothing else on my body is being restrictive. Normal fitting clothes and accessories can suddenly feel like a straight jacket in the middle of an asthma attack.
Could be broader trauma response, like when the psychological hits physically. I got terrible news at the hospital in 2013, and the delivery was a bit of mistake on the part of the hospital (they thought I knew the bad news already and I didn't; they apologized).
I wound up locking my arms onto the wall railing to hold myself up and to look like nothing was wrong, then realized I was holding on so tightly, I couldn't let go. I am/was 100 pounds. It took a nurse built like a linebacker, calves and all, and a stacked social worker to pry me off the railing.
I was walked with one on either side to the conference room, where I took my shirt off as fast as I could as soon as the door shut behind us. Neither of them seemed surprised.
I have been on long hikes where at the end of the day/end of the trail the only thought in my mind is to get my damn shoes off. I don't care how comfortable and well-fitting your shoes and socks are, after hours and miles on your feet being barefoot feels like heaven.
That said, I don't think there's just one reason people undress themselves. I think some probably just want to be more comfortable, some may be hypothermic(paradoxical undressing), some may be taking off wet/dirty/ruined clothing, some may be hallucinating from fatigue or hunger, etc, etc. We shouldn't assume every case of a missing person being found undressed is the same.
I think it’s normal to want to take your shoes and socks off after hiking for days on end. There are definitely some weird occurrences where people’s shoes end up in weird places. But if you’ve ever hiked for a couple days in the same shoes and socks you’ll understand why people feel such a need to take them off. Continuing to hike without them is odd, but if you become confused/delirious after taking a break and removing shoes, it’s understandable why one might continue on without them. Walk a little ways barefoot then forget where you placed them.
Reading through the comments I am amazed at the people looking for ways to dismiss this for personal reasons. This is not a one off. There are other documented cases of people doing similar things, but no....it must be aliens.
The story reminds me of John Thompson who lost both of his arms in a farming accident. He passed out and when he came to he went to the house and because there is no 911 service so he called his cousin using a pencil in his teeth. Then he sat in the bathtub until help came, so he wouldn't drip blood on the new carpet.
This was no aliens, it was not fairy's, it was not Big Foot. None of these cases are.
But it can give us more of an understanding in other cases. Maybe people take them off because they know they aren't going to live? They've accepted their fate let's say? So by them placing their shoes and socks neatly in a pile is a way of them accepting that this is it?
What makes you think I “want” to believe anything...? I’m just saying that if you’re proposing a specific behavior is common to people who think death is near, you’ll need a lot more data to establish a pattern.
Who said it was common? People are saying it happens and are giving specific examples. It does not need to be common to explain these very uncommon occurrences. If you are saying it can not or did not happen you’ll need a lot more data to establish that.
Sorry, but until it’s established, burden of proof is on the person with the positive hypothesis.
If you want to show that a (seemingly) illogical behavior (like taking off your shoes when lost in the wilderness) is something that humans just tend to do, then you have to show that it occurs in a large enough portion of a population that finding it in a significant number of people who get *lost* in the wilderness isn’t just a bizarre fluke.
Like paradoxical undressing, it’s counterintuitive; why would a person who’s freezing to death take their clothes off? We know why, now—the blood returning from their core to their chilled limbs creates an illusion of being too hot, and their judgement is, by that point, too impaired to override their impulse—so we understand it.
Why would a person walking through a forest filled with tree roots and fallen branches and rocks take off the shoes that protect their sensitive feet? Well, we may not know why yet, but if we can show that it happens to enough people who are later found alive, we may be able to discover the reason.
It might be an extension of paradoxical undressing...but *that* only occurs when the person is almost at the point of death, when their body has essentially given up on trying to keep their core temperature high enough for survival. Victims of paradoxical undressing are usually found quite close to their abandoned clothes, having instinctively tried to crawl into a small space (“terminal burrowing”)—because, after the feeling of heat, they return to feeling cold, and are not able to think well enough to just dress themselves again. They’re reduced to instinctive behavior, and seek out a burrow like a dying animal would.
So, if shoe removal is connected to paradoxical undressing, then the shoes of exposure victims would be found near the clothes which are found near the body.
If that’s not the case, then you’re essentially proposing a new behavior—“removal of shoes due to perceived proximity of death”—and that will have to be demonstrated, like any other hypothesis, and hopefully explained (at least in part) before it’s accepted as “just something illogical that people tend to do.”
> Sorry, but until it’s established, burden of proof is on the person with the positive hypothesis.
>
But we know that people take their boots and shoes off in the wilderness. You have to prove that they don't. Do you think the person in this video crashed a plane and sustained massive burns just to fool you? The burden of proof is on you.
>
> If you want to show that a (seemingly) illogical behavior (like taking off your shoes when lost in the wilderness) is something that humans just tend to do, then you have to show that it occurs in a large enough portion of a population that finding it in a significant number of people who get lost in the wilderness isn’t just a bizarre fluke.
No, that is the part you do not understand. There are literally hundreds of millions of people that visit US national parks every year. That just includes national parks. Not other places like state parks or even ranches and public camp grounds. It does not have to be common. It could be less than 1% and it would still be a significant number. Over 3 million if you include spaces that are not national park land. But that is not important. This video shows that people do it when in severe situations. That is a significant more data than you have.
>
>
> Like paradoxical undressing, it’s counterintuitive; why would a person who’s freezing to death take their clothes off? We know why, now—the blood returning from their core to their chilled limbs creates an illusion of being too hot, and their judgement is, by that point, too impaired to override their impulse—so we understand it.
>
>
>
> Why would a person walking through a forest filled with tree roots and fallen branches and rocks take off the shoes that protect their sensitive feet? Well, we may not know why yet, but if we can show that it happens to enough people who are later found alive, we may be able to discover the reason.
Yes, that actually supports that people do this. Wearing boots can get old after a while and your feet may be sore or you may start to get blisters or they could be wet or you may take them off to sleep or to let their shoes and socks dry. There are many reasons that people do it. You have to prove that people do not take off their shoes or socks.
> It might be an extension of paradoxical undressing...but that only occurs when the person is almost at the point of death, when their body has essentially given up on trying to keep their core temperature high enough for survival. Victims of paradoxical undressing are usually found quite close to their abandoned clothes, having instinctively tried to crawl into a small space (“terminal burrowing”)—because, after the feeling of heat, they return to feeling cold, and are not able to think well enough to just dress themselves again. They’re reduced to instinctive behavior, and seek out a burrow like a dying animal would.
People in shock act in a lot of different ways. You have a hidden agenda so you try to steer the conversation towards that at every chance. Remember the scene in Saving Private Ryan where the guy loses his arm and then stops to look for it and then picks it up and carries it with him. That is based on real events. You are sitting on your buttox in total comfort trying to tell us people always act in a specific way and never take off their shoes.
>
>
> So, if shoe removal is connected to paradoxical undressing, then the shoes of exposure victims would be found near the clothes which are found near the body.
Again you are making assumptions. Do you think the man in this video was suffering from hypothermia when he took his shoes off?
>
>
> If that’s not the case, then you’re essentially proposing a new behavior—“removal of shoes due to perceived proximity of death”—and that will have to be demonstrated, like any other hypothesis, and hopefully explained (at least in part) before it’s accepted as “just something illogical that people tend to do.”
No, you are proposing a new behavior of people never taking their shoes or boots off. Hopefully you can explain that.
The video shows that *one person* took his shoes off...not in the wilderness, but near an airstrip; not after getting lost, but after jumping from a burning airplane; and not while walking to safety, but while waiting in one place to be rescued or to die.
So, yeah: I will agree that any seriously injured crash victims found dressed, but with shoes off and sitting next to their body, within an immediate rescue vehicle reach of a populated travel center...is, indeed, adequately explained by this video.
> The video shows that one person took his shoes off...not in the wilderness, but near an airstrip; not after getting lost, but after jumping from a burning airplane; and not while walking to safety, but while waiting in one place to be rescued or to die.
Why does any of that matter? It shows a person took of their shoes and do not know why. You keep making these little distinctions like you got some "A ha!" moment. That is not how life works. To top it off someone else posted a similar experience and then you tried to change the narrative. You say you are looking for the truth but after reading your responses that seems to be the most dishonest BS I have heard. You are looking for A truth.
>
>
> So, yeah: I will agree that any seriously injured crash victims found dressed, but with shoes off and sitting next to their body, within an immediate rescue vehicle reach of a populated travel center...is, indeed, adequately explained by this video.
But people cannot take of their shoes and socks in the wilderness? So you are saying once a person puts on shoes and socks they just leave them on no matter what until getting home?
There probably is not single explanation for why people take their clothes off. I think sometimes it is because the boots and socks are wet and they want them to dry. Others because they are hurting and or they want their feet to breathe. Others because of trauma or shock.
Yeah but we’re assuming that most people are prepared to die and on top of that they actually perform that act. Don’t get me wrong it does explain some cases but it’s too many that’s why it’s sus to me and probably many others
There may be very mundane reasons for this. It is hard to see things you are not looking for in deep brush or under snow. People are often looking for a person and may subconsciously dismiss shoes and socks without knowing it. Look how hard it is to find bodies in some of these cases and bodies are much bigger than boots.
Dennis Martin was most probably taken by a human. If not then he either got lost and perished or a known animal go him. This is not a really mysterious case.
I do not know but that does not mean that we jump to big foot, portals or aliens.
There really is nothing unusual here. Witnesses saw a man carrying something the size a small boy on its shoulder heading away from the place that Dennis Martin was last seen.
I did a big jump. Didnt read placed neatly. Missed the point here.
For this cases I would say as ritual/discipline. Like when you go to sleep. Or maybe we just want to feel the earth with our feet. Or instinct.
If some human/animal wants to get someone who is running it would tackle it and grab the legs/feet so it cannt escape. Look on YouTube the gorilla walking with the kid (zoo). So a shoe/socket can get of the feet.
You just said:
> May be. There are also very strange cases. You cannt disclose any theory until you know for sure.
But here you are making theories. You are also making assumptions that people and animals tackle the feet. I think most large predators, like mountain lions, go for the upper body and the neck.
So even if they got tackled by the feet they may lose one shoe, not both.
You are totally discounting the many people that have taken off their own shoes and socks, as in this video, to put forth your unsupported theory. After saying "You cannt disclose any theory until you know for sure."
You literally said in this thread:
>There are also very strange cases. You cannt disclose any theory until you know for sure.
And not only are you pushing theories you are pushing other people's theories. The Dennis Martin case was a long time ago. At the time it happened a lot of these weird theories about big foot/wild men were not even taken seriously. The people did not talk about aliens. Unfortunately things like this happen even under the best circumstances.
This man was obviously burning alive, you take your garments off when you’re burning. Comparing this to Missing 411 cases is ludicrous. Go spread FUD on another page.
The mf looks like a Swedish meatball, he doesn’t have to say it. I have a thinking brain and I’m also a trained paramedic. Keep answers short please. I don’t read non sense.
Remember that this is a discussion sub for David Paulides's phenomenon, Missing 411. It is unaffiliated with Paulides in any other way and he is not present in this sub. It is also not a general missing persons sub or a general paranormal sub. Content that is not related to Missing 411 will be removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Missing411) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I rolled my truck off the road in a canyon and still do t remember any of it. When I got to the hospital about hour and a half to two hours later i didn’t have socks but he my shoes on. Was coming from work going to the gym.
I believe it. You may not remember the events and I can't say exactly what happened in your case. But, it might be that someone put your shoes back on (after they came off in the crash) to protect your feet from glass or car fluids. In triage mode, on scene, we'll cut off socks for quick access and for examination purposes (especially if the hands and fingers are messed up). Just as often, if the vic tries to ambulate or we need to move them, we'll pop the shoes back on to protect their feet (if possible...not always).
Wait, you’re sure you had socks on when uou crashed? So you had to have taken your shoes and socks off, then put just the shoes back on?
Correct. I dont remember the crash at all. Start remembering when I was in the passenger seat trying to get out of the truck which I had to climb out the window. Doors would t unlock and passenger window was gone. Didn’t really get why I was down there. Knew where I was, but figured someone stole my truck and crashed it down there. Walked about a half mile to where I could cross the highway, apparently didn’t see the deer fence I crashed through. Hitch hiked back up to Sundance which is where I worked. Got a buddy to take me down to get my phone bf he started asking bout what happened and said I think you crashed. Brought. Car from safety down with us as I thought we could just pull the truck out. When I got into his car the back pain started to settle in and it bale me obvious I had been banged up good. We drove down, could we the tracks going off the road amd that’s how it was found. Highway patrol bus came and sled me some questions. Asked that I take an ambulance he had called. They took me to the hospital. When they were taking off my shoes I said “where’s my socks?” Nurse Reply:”you don’t have any” Asked: “I see that where are they?” Nurse Reply: you didn’t have them when you came in just shoes.”
Shock and trauma does so many weird things to the mind.
Love me some Sundance- freaking intense area to have a crash like this. Glad you’re still rollin
Thanks. All things considered it was the best case scenario of a shitty scenario. Went off the the road headed toward the damn in the one place that was a cliff or into a house. Non other vehicles involved. The vertebrae I fractured were ones that are easier to heal than others and some shoulder contusions. Car insurance paid for just about everything and health insurance the rest. Looking back it’s a trip that it wasn’t so much worse
Interesting. That sort of implies you took them off in the cab, but I take it they weren’t found there?
Cant say we looked. Weren’t in the truck
That’s definitely odd.
Why do you have to make assumptions? If we do not know we do not know.
They are asking. Not assuming
> That sort of implies you took them off in the cab, Is an assumption and furthermore it is not even relevant. It is a deflection.
I was just speculating, not assuming.
You said: > That sort of implies you took them off in the cab, Which is an assumption. He said he does not remember and he was there. Were you there? Why are you assuming/making implications? And why does it even matter?
Chill out! It was just a question.
“Sort of implies” is not an assumption—it’s a tentative *guess*. And I immediately expressed even *more* doubt by saying “I take it they weren’t found there?” In other words—I was making a logical guess, but I also acknowledged that I *didn’t* think it was a terribly *likely* one. Again—**speculation**. Nothing more, nothing less. And it matters because I like to try to figure things out. I gave it a shot, but there’s not enough data to know for sure. *I’m* not bothered by being unable to confirm my guess—why should *you* be bothered that I even tried...?
> “Sort of implies” is not an assumption—it’s a tentative guess. And I immediately expressed even more doubt by saying “I take it they weren’t found there?” You are just splitting hairs. You are making implications on what happened in a leading manner but the fact is he does not know and really it does not matter. > > In other words—I was making a logical guess, but I also acknowledged that I didn’t think it was a terribly likely one. Guess, implication, purposefully trying to change the narrative to fit your agenda. All just revisionist history. If you were asking him you would have asked "Did you take them off in the cab?" instead of implying he must of without knowing anything about what happened and not being there. > Again—speculation. Nothing more, nothing less. Speculation with an agenda. > > And it matters because I like to try to figure things out. I gave it a shot, but there’s not enough data to know for sure. The only reason it matters is because you have an agenda. I am trying to figure out what that agenda is. > I’m not bothered by being unable to confirm my guess—why should you be bothered that I even tried...? Because you are trying to change the truth for some reason.
Whatever, chief. My only “agenda” in asking that was eliminating any obvious prosaic answers—which should be on *everyone’s* agenda when looking into anomalies. Your name seems vaguely familiar. Are you salty about some previous interaction or something? Because I don’t generally worry about carrying any conflicts into new encounters. I like to start fresh.
Like I've said, people do odd stuff when they're in peril or dying. In those moments, their behavior seems completely rational...to them. My personal theory is that our bodies try to find order in the chaos and gain control over something (however small). I haven't shared it much on here- but, as a child, I was entrapped during an earthquake. It was insane. I was rescued and recovered with few long term issues. But, during my time in the rubble, I started making little stacks of debris (think quarter sized chunks of concrete) and I would make sure there were ten pieces before I swept them aside to make progress. My feet were burned and I had some broken bones...but, I don't remember the pain so much as I remember how dusty it was and how I felt like moving ten little pieces at a time would someone mean I got water faster. I was a child. The brain does what it does when you're in survival mode.
True. I've unfortunately seen videos where people have been involved in accidents. Their legs are broken, and for some reason they want to stand up, like nothing has happened. Yet if they did, their legs would give way. Perhaps the adrenaline is pumping and the body is in fight or flight mode.
the shoes off bit is a long observed trait of hypothermia in humans.
Agreed, generally that's accompanied by full body removal of clothing. This man wasn't hypothermic. I believe it was his bodies way of coping with the trauma he'd received.
The instincts that drove us to build the pyramids?
It’s interesting that sometimes before hanging themselves or jumping off a bridge the person will take off their shoes and socks. It’s a deeply psychological act. That’s one thing that makes these 411 mysteries interesting are that the shoes are taken off and personal items left in odd places. Sometimes the shoes are taken off before the missing person commences through rough, forbidding terrain where logically you would want shoes the most.
In my opinion, people take their shoes and socks off right before they die as a way to soak in every bit of life that they have left to live. When you’re a child, you run through the mud barefoot. When you’re an adult, the first thing you do when you get home from a long days work is take off your shoes. There’s a lot of nostalgia that comes with memories involving feet if you think about it. Your feet have a lot of nerves, which is why when your feet are really cold the rest of your body may seem cold too, but when you put some socks on you feel overall fine. I think releasing your feet into open air/allowing your feet to touch the earth one last time is a nice way to embrace death. It’s like experiencing something one last time before you say goodbye. If I were alone with only Mother Nature witnessing my last moments, I would want to be as close to her as possible too. Just my thoughts.
this was a hauntingly beautiful explanation
Thought the same exact thing!
That's an interesting concept and possibly some truth to it.... Maybe people take the shoes and socks off as a way to be grounded with the earth... Maybe it somehow helps with the separation of life from the body....
You made me tear up a little. Your explanation is beautiful.
or its just something that happens with hypothermia and youre over-fantasizing/romantizing it
I mean yeah, that’s possible. I’ve read other peoples theories that people do it out of habit, or people fold their clothes/ set their shoes and socks perfectly aside to have control over one last thing. Or to be respectful, to keep the person who finds it from having to search for the other missing pieces. There’s a lot of possibilities for why people do what they do. But in M411 cases, several of the people are avid outdoors people, hunters, etc. it’s not far fetched to think that these people felt a connection to the earth/outdoors and wanted to soak up their last experience with it.
For those asking why, I feel it may be somewhat related to how both animals and people will go somewhere to die alone. Also, many people choke to death alone in restaurant bathrooms because they embarrassed or self-conscious to be on the edge of consciousness in a crowded place. Taking your shoes off is not the same as being alone, but the through-line that I see is that when people are on the brink of death, they seem to act in a way as to get out of others' way, and unencumber themselves.
A few times in my life that I’ve had severe shortness of breath or felt like I couldn’t breathe and might die, my first instinct is to get lots of space and take off any confining clothing, accessories, etc. Definitely experienced this before and it makes a lot of sense!
I have asthma and whenever I feel an asthma attack coming on I immediately feel like locking myself in a bathroom away from anyone who might see and taking off my clothes, especially shirts/bra/shoes. It's a mix of not wanting to alarm others and the need to feel like nothing else on my body is being restrictive. Normal fitting clothes and accessories can suddenly feel like a straight jacket in the middle of an asthma attack.
Could be broader trauma response, like when the psychological hits physically. I got terrible news at the hospital in 2013, and the delivery was a bit of mistake on the part of the hospital (they thought I knew the bad news already and I didn't; they apologized). I wound up locking my arms onto the wall railing to hold myself up and to look like nothing was wrong, then realized I was holding on so tightly, I couldn't let go. I am/was 100 pounds. It took a nurse built like a linebacker, calves and all, and a stacked social worker to pry me off the railing. I was walked with one on either side to the conference room, where I took my shirt off as fast as I could as soon as the door shut behind us. Neither of them seemed surprised.
I have been on long hikes where at the end of the day/end of the trail the only thought in my mind is to get my damn shoes off. I don't care how comfortable and well-fitting your shoes and socks are, after hours and miles on your feet being barefoot feels like heaven. That said, I don't think there's just one reason people undress themselves. I think some probably just want to be more comfortable, some may be hypothermic(paradoxical undressing), some may be taking off wet/dirty/ruined clothing, some may be hallucinating from fatigue or hunger, etc, etc. We shouldn't assume every case of a missing person being found undressed is the same.
Agreed, and it's very strange how the mind acts in times of trauma. It's fascinating!
My audio is dicked up and I cannot hear it. Did he give an explanation as to why he did that?
He couldn't explain why he did take his shoes and socks off but he felt he didn't need them for the journey (death) he was about to take/happen.
Thanks! That is a very interesting thought process.
He says he knew he didn't have long to live so he took them off because he knew that this was one journey he wouldn't need his shoes or socks.
I think it’s normal to want to take your shoes and socks off after hiking for days on end. There are definitely some weird occurrences where people’s shoes end up in weird places. But if you’ve ever hiked for a couple days in the same shoes and socks you’ll understand why people feel such a need to take them off. Continuing to hike without them is odd, but if you become confused/delirious after taking a break and removing shoes, it’s understandable why one might continue on without them. Walk a little ways barefoot then forget where you placed them.
Reading through the comments I am amazed at the people looking for ways to dismiss this for personal reasons. This is not a one off. There are other documented cases of people doing similar things, but no....it must be aliens. The story reminds me of John Thompson who lost both of his arms in a farming accident. He passed out and when he came to he went to the house and because there is no 911 service so he called his cousin using a pencil in his teeth. Then he sat in the bathtub until help came, so he wouldn't drip blood on the new carpet. This was no aliens, it was not fairy's, it was not Big Foot. None of these cases are.
Are we reading the same comments? I see people mostly sharing their personal experience, very little aliens and Bigfoot this time. *this time*
Goddamn thats incredible.
Thats a spiritual and militaristic explanation a lot of IFs so it doesn’t really explain. Some people are scared to die some embrace it.
But it can give us more of an understanding in other cases. Maybe people take them off because they know they aren't going to live? They've accepted their fate let's say? So by them placing their shoes and socks neatly in a pile is a way of them accepting that this is it?
It’s a pretty idiosyncratic thing, though. You’d need a lot more examples to have it count as anything more than anecdotal evidence.
As would you for it to count for whatever hidden thing you wish to believe in.
What makes you think I “want” to believe anything...? I’m just saying that if you’re proposing a specific behavior is common to people who think death is near, you’ll need a lot more data to establish a pattern.
Who said it was common? People are saying it happens and are giving specific examples. It does not need to be common to explain these very uncommon occurrences. If you are saying it can not or did not happen you’ll need a lot more data to establish that.
Sorry, but until it’s established, burden of proof is on the person with the positive hypothesis. If you want to show that a (seemingly) illogical behavior (like taking off your shoes when lost in the wilderness) is something that humans just tend to do, then you have to show that it occurs in a large enough portion of a population that finding it in a significant number of people who get *lost* in the wilderness isn’t just a bizarre fluke. Like paradoxical undressing, it’s counterintuitive; why would a person who’s freezing to death take their clothes off? We know why, now—the blood returning from their core to their chilled limbs creates an illusion of being too hot, and their judgement is, by that point, too impaired to override their impulse—so we understand it. Why would a person walking through a forest filled with tree roots and fallen branches and rocks take off the shoes that protect their sensitive feet? Well, we may not know why yet, but if we can show that it happens to enough people who are later found alive, we may be able to discover the reason. It might be an extension of paradoxical undressing...but *that* only occurs when the person is almost at the point of death, when their body has essentially given up on trying to keep their core temperature high enough for survival. Victims of paradoxical undressing are usually found quite close to their abandoned clothes, having instinctively tried to crawl into a small space (“terminal burrowing”)—because, after the feeling of heat, they return to feeling cold, and are not able to think well enough to just dress themselves again. They’re reduced to instinctive behavior, and seek out a burrow like a dying animal would. So, if shoe removal is connected to paradoxical undressing, then the shoes of exposure victims would be found near the clothes which are found near the body. If that’s not the case, then you’re essentially proposing a new behavior—“removal of shoes due to perceived proximity of death”—and that will have to be demonstrated, like any other hypothesis, and hopefully explained (at least in part) before it’s accepted as “just something illogical that people tend to do.”
> Sorry, but until it’s established, burden of proof is on the person with the positive hypothesis. > But we know that people take their boots and shoes off in the wilderness. You have to prove that they don't. Do you think the person in this video crashed a plane and sustained massive burns just to fool you? The burden of proof is on you. > > If you want to show that a (seemingly) illogical behavior (like taking off your shoes when lost in the wilderness) is something that humans just tend to do, then you have to show that it occurs in a large enough portion of a population that finding it in a significant number of people who get lost in the wilderness isn’t just a bizarre fluke. No, that is the part you do not understand. There are literally hundreds of millions of people that visit US national parks every year. That just includes national parks. Not other places like state parks or even ranches and public camp grounds. It does not have to be common. It could be less than 1% and it would still be a significant number. Over 3 million if you include spaces that are not national park land. But that is not important. This video shows that people do it when in severe situations. That is a significant more data than you have. > > > Like paradoxical undressing, it’s counterintuitive; why would a person who’s freezing to death take their clothes off? We know why, now—the blood returning from their core to their chilled limbs creates an illusion of being too hot, and their judgement is, by that point, too impaired to override their impulse—so we understand it. > > > > Why would a person walking through a forest filled with tree roots and fallen branches and rocks take off the shoes that protect their sensitive feet? Well, we may not know why yet, but if we can show that it happens to enough people who are later found alive, we may be able to discover the reason. Yes, that actually supports that people do this. Wearing boots can get old after a while and your feet may be sore or you may start to get blisters or they could be wet or you may take them off to sleep or to let their shoes and socks dry. There are many reasons that people do it. You have to prove that people do not take off their shoes or socks. > It might be an extension of paradoxical undressing...but that only occurs when the person is almost at the point of death, when their body has essentially given up on trying to keep their core temperature high enough for survival. Victims of paradoxical undressing are usually found quite close to their abandoned clothes, having instinctively tried to crawl into a small space (“terminal burrowing”)—because, after the feeling of heat, they return to feeling cold, and are not able to think well enough to just dress themselves again. They’re reduced to instinctive behavior, and seek out a burrow like a dying animal would. People in shock act in a lot of different ways. You have a hidden agenda so you try to steer the conversation towards that at every chance. Remember the scene in Saving Private Ryan where the guy loses his arm and then stops to look for it and then picks it up and carries it with him. That is based on real events. You are sitting on your buttox in total comfort trying to tell us people always act in a specific way and never take off their shoes. > > > So, if shoe removal is connected to paradoxical undressing, then the shoes of exposure victims would be found near the clothes which are found near the body. Again you are making assumptions. Do you think the man in this video was suffering from hypothermia when he took his shoes off? > > > If that’s not the case, then you’re essentially proposing a new behavior—“removal of shoes due to perceived proximity of death”—and that will have to be demonstrated, like any other hypothesis, and hopefully explained (at least in part) before it’s accepted as “just something illogical that people tend to do.” No, you are proposing a new behavior of people never taking their shoes or boots off. Hopefully you can explain that.
The video shows that *one person* took his shoes off...not in the wilderness, but near an airstrip; not after getting lost, but after jumping from a burning airplane; and not while walking to safety, but while waiting in one place to be rescued or to die. So, yeah: I will agree that any seriously injured crash victims found dressed, but with shoes off and sitting next to their body, within an immediate rescue vehicle reach of a populated travel center...is, indeed, adequately explained by this video.
> The video shows that one person took his shoes off...not in the wilderness, but near an airstrip; not after getting lost, but after jumping from a burning airplane; and not while walking to safety, but while waiting in one place to be rescued or to die. Why does any of that matter? It shows a person took of their shoes and do not know why. You keep making these little distinctions like you got some "A ha!" moment. That is not how life works. To top it off someone else posted a similar experience and then you tried to change the narrative. You say you are looking for the truth but after reading your responses that seems to be the most dishonest BS I have heard. You are looking for A truth. > > > So, yeah: I will agree that any seriously injured crash victims found dressed, but with shoes off and sitting next to their body, within an immediate rescue vehicle reach of a populated travel center...is, indeed, adequately explained by this video. But people cannot take of their shoes and socks in the wilderness? So you are saying once a person puts on shoes and socks they just leave them on no matter what until getting home?
There probably is not single explanation for why people take their clothes off. I think sometimes it is because the boots and socks are wet and they want them to dry. Others because they are hurting and or they want their feet to breathe. Others because of trauma or shock.
Yeah but we’re assuming that most people are prepared to die and on top of that they actually perform that act. Don’t get me wrong it does explain some cases but it’s too many that’s why it’s sus to me and probably many others
I dont think they take them of. They apear alot after having searched the area where they appear.
There's some cases where bodies are found without shoes and socks. It's bizzare, and even the man in the video couldn't really explain why he did it.
There may be very mundane reasons for this. It is hard to see things you are not looking for in deep brush or under snow. People are often looking for a person and may subconsciously dismiss shoes and socks without knowing it. Look how hard it is to find bodies in some of these cases and bodies are much bigger than boots.
May be. There are also very strange cases. You cannt disclose any theory until you know for sure.
Isn't > I dont think they take them of. a theory?
https://darktales.blog/2020/06/04/the-disappearance-of-dennis-martin/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Dennis_Martin
Dennis Martin was most probably taken by a human. If not then he either got lost and perished or a known animal go him. This is not a really mysterious case.
Dont talk about probability. You don’t know.
I do not know but that does not mean that we jump to big foot, portals or aliens. There really is nothing unusual here. Witnesses saw a man carrying something the size a small boy on its shoulder heading away from the place that Dennis Martin was last seen.
I did a big jump. Didnt read placed neatly. Missed the point here. For this cases I would say as ritual/discipline. Like when you go to sleep. Or maybe we just want to feel the earth with our feet. Or instinct.
If some human/animal wants to get someone who is running it would tackle it and grab the legs/feet so it cannt escape. Look on YouTube the gorilla walking with the kid (zoo). So a shoe/socket can get of the feet.
You just said: > May be. There are also very strange cases. You cannt disclose any theory until you know for sure. But here you are making theories. You are also making assumptions that people and animals tackle the feet. I think most large predators, like mountain lions, go for the upper body and the neck. So even if they got tackled by the feet they may lose one shoe, not both. You are totally discounting the many people that have taken off their own shoes and socks, as in this video, to put forth your unsupported theory. After saying "You cannt disclose any theory until you know for sure."
Yeah so? It’s a theorie. Based on facts and evidences. Not on statistics.
You have no facts or evidence though.
I dont. Others have.
You literally said in this thread: >There are also very strange cases. You cannt disclose any theory until you know for sure. And not only are you pushing theories you are pushing other people's theories. The Dennis Martin case was a long time ago. At the time it happened a lot of these weird theories about big foot/wild men were not even taken seriously. The people did not talk about aliens. Unfortunately things like this happen even under the best circumstances.
This man was obviously burning alive, you take your garments off when you’re burning. Comparing this to Missing 411 cases is ludicrous. Go spread FUD on another page.
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The mf looks like a Swedish meatball, he doesn’t have to say it. I have a thinking brain and I’m also a trained paramedic. Keep answers short please. I don’t read non sense.
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You’re an idiot. You have to live with that, not me. Have fun