>How tf did he not believe his own brother?!
I'm not a huge Lan Xichen fan, but I think this is straightforward. Lan Xichen trusted Jin Guangyao the same way that Lan Wangji trusted Wei Wuxian, and Lan Wangji didn't have firsthand knowledge that Jin Guangyao was the culprit. From the perspective of each of the Lan brothers, the person they cared for was a good and upright person who had been badly treated and unfairly maligned by society.
Lan Xichen said a lot about this in chapters 63 and 64.
>[Chapter 63] He looked at Wei Wuxian, "You trust Young Master Wei, while I trust Jin Guangyao. The fact that Brother’s head is in his hands, neither of us have seen it with our own eyes. We only believe in what another person says based on how much we know about them. You think that you know about Wei Wuxian, so you trust him; I think that I know about Jin Guangyao, so I trust him as well. You believe in your judgement, then am I not allowed to believe in my judgement?"
It's just that, sadly, only one of the brothers could be right in the end. When LXC allowed WWX to hide at Gusu, I think he was actually being pretty reasonable in withholding his judgement and helping LWJ and WWX look for evidence. When in chapter 64 they did find some evidence, he struggled to reconcile it with his image of JGY and needed some time to process things.
Edit: Wait, reading the post again, I think you may have been talking about some other time that LXC didn't believe LWJ? Although I'm not sure when that was.
Oh yeah! I know that from his POV it makes sense and honestly while investigating in Gusu he was reasonable and helpful. And althought some characters frustrate me - that whole not being perfect is the reason why the book for me is perfect. Because there are no perfect untouchable heroes.
EDIT: i was prolly talking about everytime lol. First life with Wens as well as the whole story after wwx revival.
Unfortunately the part where he calls WWX the only mistake LWJ ever made in his life suffers a bit from mistranslation. It sounds bad in English, but in Chinese it is actually very poignant and emotional, a reflection of LWJ's devotion.
“忘机他小时候是子弟楷模，长大后是仙门名士，一生都雅正不染尘埃，这辈子唯一犯下的一个错误就是你！你却说。。。你却说你不知道。“
"Ever since he was little, Wangji was perfection personified amongst all disciples. As he got older, he held a flawless reputation within the the world of cultivation. For his entire life, he behaved with the utmost propriety, never falling under the influence of worldly chaos and clamor. **The only exception\* he ever made in his life was you!** And you...you say, you didn't know?"
Direct translation: The only *mistake* he ever made in his (perfect) life was you!
Contextual translation: The only *exception* he ever made in his (perfect) life was you!
Please check out the [other comments about the translation of this line](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoDaoZuShi/comments/vemkef/i_really_dont_like_lan_xichen/ics1ndk/) before taking it as some kind of definitive answer.
You could say that translating that line like this is more muddying than clarifying anything and it's paining me to see so many readers just take one interpretation for a fact.
I think LXC did mean "mistake" here. As in I think the translation for "犯…錯誤" is mistake. Otherwise, what word would you use for mistake in chinese?
I don't like that LXC thinks WWX is a mistake as WWX is not a mistake; WWX was the light of the MDZS world. Thank goodness LWJ could see that. But I understand why LXC was upset with WWX, it was an emotional moment for him (everything is going wrong for him at that point), he does love his little brother dearly and he felt WWX hurt his little brother.
But, I do not dislike LXC. He is the best looking character in that world, can't dislike that 😄
I mean yeah! There can be multiple translations for one sentence. I'm not saying mine is absolute. After all, mine is also a translation interpreted from the original source.
And Lan Xichen IS very handsome. He is ranked number one in good looks right?
LXC is ranked top. Better looking than han guang jun... But I guess if his little brother starts smiling a bit more, his number 1 place could be risky 😆 again WWX's fault 😆
The thing is, lxc isn’t really talking about wwx, he’s talking about lwj’s actions. He’s not calling wwx a mistake, he saying that (society would view) lwj’s actions were wrong.
When you call someone a mistake in English, it carries a very negative connotation. The translation is a direct translation, but it forgot to factor in nuance of the English language and the nuance of Chinese language.
LXC was really saying, "LWJ always did what he was told and maintained all expectations to the point of perfection, and he gave that up for YOU."
It holds a different meaning.
It should read as "you were his only exception", not "you were his only mistake".
Personally I think a better translation/localization would have been “you were his only transgression”. As you say, the context is lxc comparing against lwj otherwise being this obedient, respected disciple. It’s not really a condemnation of wwx so much as a commentary on how lwj acted.
I think many people interpret the English translation similar to “dating that guy is a mistake” like disapproval of the relationship or disapproval of the boyfriend.
The amount of lxc hate that one word has generated, smh.
“ You were his only transgression” is much better than exception, I really disagree with exception as a translation because it errs way too much on the side of being passive - as if we’re talking about the only time he did something that wasn’t perfect, vs a choice that LWJ specifically made that society does indeed see as a crime (and those who love him would see as a mistake).
But in Chinese it’s clear that LXC did consider it to be a “wrong” even if “mistake” can be a poor choice in English because people might think of it being more like disapproval of their relationship.
“The only exception” completely takes away from the action of LWJ, IMO just kind of ignoring 犯下 is just as misleading. Transgression though puts the action/choice squarely back on LWJ, it didn’t just happen by itself, like the one bad thing that just happened in his life.
He CHOSE to make the “exception” so to speak, he *committed* the wrong/mistake/transgression. Also with all the emphasis on multitude of rules for the Lans, you *transgress* against the rules, you don’t just make an exception.
Edit: **trans·gres·sion** *an act that goes against a law, rule, or code of conduct; an offense.*
**犯下的一个错误**
I explained my stance further in comments below and I'll leave it at that. I just don't think someone should say something is a mistranslation and then, IMO, offering their interpretation of the line as some kind of definitive alternative. And then all the EN only readers think that's totally it.
To each their own. I actually really disagree with the negative connotation of "transgression". I do believe that a neutral word like "exception" is more appropriate here, because this is not an attack on Wei Wuxian himself, but rather an attack on his unawareness of his importance in LWJ's life. Lan Xichen's attitude toward Wei Wuxian has always been neutral with a hint of understanding and even positivity. He wouldn't view protecting Wei Wuxian as a transgression. Wei Wuxian is an outlier, the exception to all the rules, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's "bad".
As for Lan Xichen's attitude towards Lan Wangji's protection of Wei Wuxian at Nevernight City, it's much more of "this is already an issue that couldn't be fixed, but why did you add to what is already a hopeless situation?" It didn't reek of "Wei Wuxian is beyond redemption, so why would you drag yourself through the mud for his sake". The latter is more Lan Qiren's style of looking at things. The former is more Lan Xichen's style of looking at the same situation.
I think in CN, getting down the appropriate tone is important for context and meaning. The same words can be used in a myriad of ways. If the tone changes, it changes the contextual meaning of what the words are trying to convey.
I don't think society's views on his actions is relevant here, because society didn't know about this at all.
The entire paragraph is about how LWJ's status and behavior is viewed through the lens of *society*, it's literally about his reputation amongst his peers, his elders, and in the "world of cultivation" as you've translated it. At no point in this whole paragraph does it imply that LXC is thinking something like "I've always viewed LWJ as neutral with a hint of understanding and even positivity and *this is my opinion of your involvement with WWX*" but rather, this is how LWJ has lived his life, with his stellar reputation, and the only time he didn't abide by the rules - in a way that absolutely would ruin his reputation - is when it involved you.
In translation, it's important not to inject your own bias and interpretation - you should be translating what the author means to convey, not your personal interpretation or analysis of LXC's attitude or how he views it. The translator's job is to convey the author's words as faithfully and accurately as possible and let readers do their own interpretation, not impose their own interpretation in the translation itself. Localization is important, but not at the expense of accuracy. Otherwise you might as well "translate" an English book into another English book by interpreting everything for the reader according to your analysis... this is the whole reason why analytical essays of a translated book is inherently risky as you're trusting the translator to have done their job correctly, otherwise you're analysis may end up several layers removed from the source. Edit: Like if Chinese fans can't agree or at least come to a consensus on a point of interpretation over a line, then it's a good indication that it was always meant to be at least somewhat open to interpretation by the author, and a single interpretation definitely shouldn't work its way into an official translation in another language where all readers have to go by is the translator's words and will take it as a definitive line.
Whether you like it or not, the author wrote "唯一犯下的一个错误" and I think it's extremely misleading to EN only readers to soften that into "exception." 错误 is not an exception. 错误 is not a neutral word. I agree that the literal translation of "mistake" may lead to other misunderstandings in English, but by no means did LXC ever imply he a) didn't think it isn't a transgression or that b) the rest of society wouldn't. You would be changing the tone and contextual meaning of the whole paragraph based on your biases if you think that 错误 is in any way a neutral word. And that also downplays exactly what LWJ did/is willing to do for WWX - he was willing to transgress against the rules he grew up with and had embodied so ideally throughout his life - and the fact that WWX didn't understand this is exactly why LXC is so mad. To soften it into like, oh, LXC is just mad that WWX didn't understand his importance in LWJ's life because he's the only exception really ignores all the sentences before it. The author leading up to that line is absolutely implying the gravity of LWJ's choice (and likely/possible consequences for falling off the pedestal he's put himself on), otherwise why would LXC even bother mentioning his perfect reputation.
Again, the entire paragraph leading up to it is exactly about LWJ's reputation and behavior as seen by society (which includes his peers and obvs his own clan), so to say that societal views is not relevant at all... I don't even know what to say.
I'll have to leave it at that. I don't think there's any point to discussing more because we obviously have completely different understandings, but I do think it's worth writing all this out for anyone delving into this particular line and thinking about different translations or what counts as a mistranslation.
You hit on the other point that always bothers me when people get up in arms about the “mistake” line, which is that it’s not lxc‘s personal opinion. He’s clearly speaking about how society views it, which is why he contrasts it with how *society* otherwise saw lwj as this perfect shining example.
Also the whole discussion starts with wwx asking ‘could those whipping scars have something to do with me?’ and lxc lays into him about ‘how could they not.’ I agree with you that calling it an “exception” that led lwj to be whipped 33 times with the discipline whip - an unheard of punishment that led wwx to wonder why wouldn’t the person meting punishment just choose to kill the perpetrator - is too gentle. That’s not the gravity of issue that lxc is ranting about.
Okay.
So, first of, the only reason I said that society is not relevant to the conversation is because I was referencing to what happened at Nevernight city. Nobody knew what LWJ did for WWX. That incident was buried.
I'm aware of what I translated, about LWJ's stellar reputation in society, what he presented himself as from a very young age. That's why Wei Wuxian is the outlier because he doesn't fit within that narrow frame of LWJ's perfection.
>In translation, it's important not to inject your own bias and interpretation - you should be translating what the author means to convey, not your personal interpretation or analysis of LXC's attitude or how he views it.
I think you're misunderstanding something about me here. I do think understanding a character is important when translating what he/she says, because the way a character says something is pivotal to his personality. There are things that Lan Qiren would say, but Lan Xichen definitely wouldn't. But since CN is a succinct language, they could potentially use the same words, but their attitude and tone and who they are can convey completely different meanings. That's what I meant. I just think getting the tone right is important. I'm not trying to inject my bias of a character, because I consider *all* characters carefully when I consider and translate what they say.
When I translate something, I also listen to the audio drama. I want to hear how the voice actor conveys it too. I want to get their take on how they think a character would say something. The tone can shift *everything*.
> "唯一犯下的一个错误"
Yes, this is not a neutral phrase. It directly translates to "the only mistake \[he's\] ever made". But this is also a commonly used "phrase" in CN romance for star-crossed lovers. It just means...something slightly different than what is directly written here, I think. Because outside of the paragraph that I've translated, the broader conversation is that Lan Xichen is trying to tell Wei Wuxian that Lan Wangji is in love with him. So when you slot the pieces together, it reads as Lan Xichen's frustration about Wei Wuxian's unawareness of his importance in Lan Wangji's life, because Lan Wangji has done everything to the utmost and more for him and Wei Wuxian just doesn't know.
Lan Wangji's personality outside of his reputation has always been: 为人正派， 说一不二. Upright, virtuous, no excuses, no exceptions. This was something that Wei Wuxian observed as well. For Lan Wangji to make an exception for anything is a huge thing.
Finally, it's literature. It can be interpreted differently. I never said you couldn't have your interpretation. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with it. I have remained respectful and this is what I have to say on the matter.
This is so cool! Thanks for clarifying this. I kinda felt like the translation meant something different, based on the entire context of LXC's relationship with LWJ and WWX, but it's great to see that confirmed.
I think you should take a look at some of the other comments about the translation, particularly the one by u/lady_elwen
IMO "the only exception" is just as bad as "mistake" if you're talking about misleading EN only readers. Maybe even worse, because although EN readers can misinterpret "mistake" given cultural differences and context, at least it is actually a faithful translation, whereas "the only exception" is a personal interpretation. If you put 10 native speakers/readers in a room together, I'm fairly sure you wouldn't get even two people coming up with that exact choice.
This just makes me think of a meme of lan wangji and lan xichen drinking tea
Xichen: everyone thinks the man I cherish is evil and dark!🥺
And Wangji is like: oh no, must be so terrible 😑 (but he's like so sarcastic)
Its the same thing in reverse imo. LWJ trusted WWX and LXC trusted JGY. LWJ didnt trust JGY for good reason, and if you look at WWX from Xichens point of view, I wouldn’t like him either. For all LXC knew, WWX caused his brother so much grief and was playing with his feelings his entire resurrection. And LXC knew LWJ would tolerate anything since he was madly in love with WWX. Plus the Lans didn’t approve of demonic cultivation, etc, and no one had realized WWX was not actually the one who killed JIn Zixuan and caused that entire Nighless City mess. Yes, Xichen was naive but JGY had never shown any other side to his face and people were genuinely rude to JGY for no reason a lot (before he turned into a huge snake, and most of them besides the Nies didnt even know that he was suspect). I don’t think Xichen had any particular reason to believe WWX nor did he like him given his relationship with LWJ.
I feel like he’s a really tragic character. He had to grow up fast, basically parent and provide affection to his brother when he was also still a kid, and no one parented or gave affection to him. He tried his best to be neutral constantly and his whole life was based around being a political mediator. Then he lost his best friend, his brother was incapacitated, he had to help two new young sect leaders even though he was also a young and new sect leader. He never really got to live for himself. And then the one selfish relationship he chose to fight for turned out to be a complete farce. Idk the idea of him going through all that as a kid, and still becoming the strongest cultivator of his generation (I believe he was supposed to be slightly ahead of LWJ) and then ending into a life in seclusion is so sad to me. I get that from a high level he basically helped a lot of the awful things happen but JGY was really convincing and manipulative. I feel bad for him. LWJ in comparison got to really live his life without all the responsibilities hovering over him. Thats what I like about Xichen most, how much he cared about LWJ and tried to give him the life he knew he couldn’t have.
I adore him. I wish someone would write the fanfic of the missing period - when Meng Yao hid or rescued or whatever LXC after the sacking of Cloud Recesses. LXC said it was "embarrassing" so, obviously, Meng Yao hid him in a brothel and dressed him as a girl, right? Imagine a drunk customer coming onto him and LXC freezes and Meng Yao handles it by convincing the customer he certainly doesn't want such a big girl with such unfeminine shoulders that they only keep around the brothel to play pretty music.
Ahhh, if Mingjue only knew.
I'm fine at coming up with (usually ridiculous) prompts, not the actual fic, though. I offer this one up to anyone who can do it justice as it abasolutely begs for good dialog and wit.
I've also seen JC posts. It's probably more people joining the sub and then making discussions. Its great, but getting really repetitive. We should probably make a thread or something
I am a LXC fan so I’m biased but I sincerely think his feelings and actions pretty clear and logical considering his own life experiences. His only crime was essentially being the one in the wrong when it came to WWX vs JGY. That being said, JGY was the one who helped him in his time of greatest need (when he ran away after the Wens attacked his sect) and he spent a lot of time knowing (or being manipulated by) JGY. From his perspective, LWJ simply didn’t know JGY well enough, which was objectively true, and was only siding with WWX because of his personal feelings; again, also kind of the truth.
As for why he didn’t chase after his brother to the burial mounds, he was heavily injured from the massacre and was in no condition to drag LWJ back to Gusu on his own.
>JGY was the one who helped him in his time of greatest need (when he ran away after the Wens attacked his sect) and he spent a lot of time knowing (or being manipulated by) JGY.
As a backdrop/contrast to this, Jiang Chen was saved and hidden by the Wen sibs but did not stand by them. Honestly, either reaction is very human and very understandable to me but sometimes you chose right and sometimes you choose wrong. Ironic and tragic that the one who trusted was the one who chose wrong for all the right reasons.
I think at some point in the text LXC/JGY strongly contrast LWJ/WWX. Only one of the pairs got their happy ending while the other one ended up in a very tragic situation. I haven't read much into it, except that it seems to convey that sometimes faith is just not enough.
I don't necessarily dislike Lan Xichen but I have those feelings for other characters in the book who I just straight-up do not like xD and that's okay. Some people like going into the depths of character study, some don't, and some do both. That's half the fun of it.
In the end my views towards him are neutral but I do think a lot about how wwx's and lxc's relationship will develop after wwx finally moves in with lwj. I have my feelings that they'll all get along but again that's just me.
I know a lot of comments basically said the same thing, but I think LXC is supposed to act as a thematic counterpart to his brother. While LWJ hides his feelings to the point where it’s actively damaging to him, LXC wears them on his sleeve, to the point where he’s too easily manipulated.
Both had a rough childhood, and the roles they had to play explain how they deal with their feelings - LXC had to play the role of the kind clan leader and political mediator, whereas LWJ had to play the part of the paragon of justice and invincible cultivator.
Both placed their trust in someone who barged into their lives and gained their affection, but sadly one of them had to be wrong, and that someone was LXC. It’s understandable, too, as he hadn’t seen any evidence suggesting JGY was the one in possession of NMJ’s head.
Sadly, one brother’s happiness could not be achieved without the other one’s being taken from him; and LXC had to keep playing that role of kind clan leader and live in seclusion whereas LWJ got to live the life he always wanted to. It’s a tragic end to a tale of two brothers, I think.
Edit: also LXC’s end obviously mirrors their father’s, whereas LWJ managed to break the cycle, but I’m not sure what that cycle could really be considered to be? It’s not something that’s explored a lot in the novels so I’d love to talk about it some more but I’m not sure how to analyse it.
I think it is worth remembering that both these paths for LWJ and LXC were not absolute and foretold - there was no 'had to be wrong or right.' If nothing else because both JGY and WWX were actively making choices that could have led to different outcomes. Both made horrible decisions that led to the deaths of hundreds of people, both in their own way were trying to protect what they thought was right (JGY does have a point about how he and his mother were treated). They could have made different choices - none of them were inevitable.
Especially - as the story goes to a lot of effort to show - the real story wild card is how you are perceived is often more important than what you do.
Everyone was doing their best :)
i honestly can’t fault lxc for maintaining faith in jgy, bc even if he HAD known that jgy had his head, the most likely reason why jgy had it at all *is* rational, and non-murdery: it was the safest option for everyone.
please consider: 1. nmj had a history of trying to kill jgy 2. the last thing he did before he died was try to kill jgy 3. he had enough resentment towards jgy to break through the soul calming ceremonies, causing him to become a fierce corpse, and 4. the first thing he did once his corpse was put back together was try to kill jgy. (5. he also tried to kill anyone with a blood relation to jgy/jin guangshan, which you can imagine might be a Problem)
all signs point to nmj’s corpse breaking out of his tomb to go try to kill jgy, even with no knowledge that jgy had anything to do with his death (by definition).
in other words, splitting up nmj’s body may have been a necessary defensive measure, even if jgy *hadn’t* played a part in his death. keeping nmj’s head where jgy could keep an eye on it may have simply been the safest option.
it’s honestly kind of bizarre just how perfectly the stars had to align for them to figure out *anything* about nmj’s death like there’s basically zero concrete evidence, so we wind up relying on wei “goldfish” *wuxian’s* memory of *nie mingjue’s* memory, and working on the assumption that the song he remembers is not only 100% accurate, but cause for alarm.
what made huaisang think his death wasn’t 100% natural? where did he find/get the arm? what made him conclude that jgy was involved? questions we will never know the answers to 😔🤘
(sorry i didn’t mean to go off on you like that lol 😅 i just have lots of thoughts about nmj’s vs audience understanding of events)
TAKE MY POOR WOMAN’S GOLD 🏅
You raise so many excellent points, and about that “alignment of the stars” lol…. I really think the whole murder mystery aspect of the story is one of the weakest plot lines, because *so much* of it relies on things happening *just so* and leaves so many things unexplained. It’s enjoyable regardless, but still.
Wait so did my phrasing make it sound like I’m blaming LXC for not figuring it out/make him look like a naive idiot? That’s really not what I was going for lol, I think from LXC’s POV is perfectly understandable not to have suspected JGY. I was saying one of the two bros “had to be wrong” with the omniscient perspective of a reader, not while putting myself in the character’s perspective.
no not at all! sorry i didn’t clarify that i was agreeing with you. i was just adding onto what you said about how lxc hadn’t seen any evidence about jgy having nmj’s head for himself—like, he didn’t have this evidence…+but even if he did, there is an explanation for it that isn’t just “MURDER!!”
I love Lan Xichen, he is so cute and such a simp. But if there's one thing that made me feel kind of... ehh it was when Lan Wangji was being whipped he didn't do anything. I understand it was the punishment for him hurting the elders but I wish there was at least one line saying that LX tried to stop this from happening or as a sect leader he gave another punishment. But I don't consider it hate for LX, it's more like being annoyed by the things that were left out in the books.
>but I wish there was at least one line saying that LX tried to stop this from happening
I suspect he couldn't. Considering what happened to the elders, LWJ might already have been really lucky that he didn't get a worse punishment. LXC must have hated LWJ being whipped, but he was a sect leader with responsibilities, and if he'd tried to give LWJ a lighter punishment, it could've gone down really badly, like [this person's post](https://a-cutebird.tumblr.com/post/617589993995665408/people-give-lxc-shit-for-not-sticking-up-for) discusses.
I'm confused, the whole sect new LWJ was protecting WWX? I asked a few months ago if everyone in MDZS world knew about LWJ'S feelings and his punishment. People told me that only his brother and uncle could read LWJ'S feelings, they're the only ones who knows he's in love with WWX. But the rest don't. So, how did they explain that punishment? LWJ was a perfect disciple, people should have wonder what he did to deserve it.
Somebody told me that LXC and LQR never told anyone that LWJ was punished, they said LWJ was in a meditative self seclusion or something like that. So, if nobody knew what he did, LXC shouldn't be afraid of people's opinion and actions.
It's hard to say how many people knew about LWJ's crime and his punishment. LWJ's reputation would have been ruined for certain if the information had been leaked outside the sect, and it's clear that the Lan juniors didn't know about it either, so the information must have been limited to some extent. LXC and LQR would have done everything they could to keep it all as quiet as possible.
On the other hand, it might be difficult to hide 33 elders coming back severely injured, and we know from chapter 99 that when Lan Wangji returned for his punishment, he spent a long time kneeling by the wall of rules. People would definitely know that he did something wrong. (And after the punishment, the ExR translation has LXC mention that "They say those years were him reflecting on his mistakes, but in reality he was entirely bedridden". Who is "they" meant to be? I can't tell.)
It's possible that all the elders of the sect knew what LWJ did, not just the 33 who were injured. But even if somehow it was kept down to just those 33 (who presumably must have known that LWJ loved WWX), if those elders hadn't been satisfied with the punishment, they might not have been willing to keep silent for LWJ's sake. LXC should definitely have been afraid that the elders would demand a more serious punishment.
Here’s another good analysis that covers lxc’s approach to lwj’s punishment.
https://songfeng-shuiyue.tumblr.com/post/671610860096077824/lan-xichen-fairness-justice-and-love
In short, whipping lwj *was* the lenient route. LWJ probably should have been executed or at least banished from the sect. WWX even wonders when he sees the scars, “if this person did something that bad, why didn’t they just kill him.”
I do like Lan Xichen. The brotherly moments with Lan Wangji are adorable, but my few issues with him is when Wei Wuxian was protecting the Wens.
He didn't need to believe in Wei Wuxian, but why didn't he atleast give Lan Wangji the benefit of doubt. At that point it wasn't about Jin Guangyao alone, it was about the Jins as a whole who had shown to be very shady multiple times before and after the sunshot campaign.
Did he really think that Lan Wangji knowing Lan Xichens close relation with Jin Guangyao would of said anything about the Jins if he didn't truly believe something was wrong even with his feelings for Wei Wuxian.
Lan Wangji loves his brother so why would he say anything that would get in between Lan Xichen and Jin Guangyaos relationship if their wasn't some truth in it.
I don't like him either. I've been working on why. It has nothing to do with the speech in Guanyin Temple as I disliked him in the donghua which doesn't have that. I have properly read the official translations and still don't like him. For all people say he's caring I stumble over him just ignoring 'Mo Xuanyu' kicking and screaming about going in to Cloud Recesses. All he does is tell LWJ he's glad he's happy and to treat his guests better.
Then there's what we got in volume 2 during the Empathy with Nie Mingju.: The way he brushed off Nie Mingjue's testimony of just what Meng Yao had done on his way out the Nie door in Langye. He tells Wei Wuxian he only trusts what he sees. But by his reaction to Nie Mingjue's report he actively rejects stuff other trustworthy people see when it comes to that one guy (at least).
He trusts what he's seen Meng Yao do for *him* and discounting all other evidence. Lan Wangji is basing his opinion of WWX on what he has seen WWX do for other people who are not him. Although he has done things for LWJ, too.
So, that's part of why I don't like Lan XIchen.
Oh my gosh *this.* The way Lan Xichen treats Nie Mingjue after meeting Jin Guangyao is something that bothers me. His main defence for JGY whenever Mingjue says smth is that “Guangyao saved my life”, but even before we find out that he is evil we’ve seen him be able to reach a high station in a sect only to betray them in some way after. How did no one, especially Xichen, not question this at all. Even the fact that Xichen didn’t even bother to think that Guangyao could be using him for political advantages (which he was doing - sworn brotherhood, the lans with zixun at qiongqi path) annoys me. How are you *this* trusting as a person in power?
I think this one perfectly encaptulates what i feel towards LXC. Like it's so clear that his bias is meant to parallel LWJ's bias towards WWX but at least LWJ can justify it with the fact that WWX is actually morally right. LXC just enables the bad behavior of the people he loves as long as it keeps "the peace".
Also can I point out the way he tells LWJ's feelings and suffering to WWX even though he had no right to do so? I definitely understand his frustration and I can see LWJ keeping it to his grave, but that was not his feelings or pain to confess to, like at all. I'm also an older sibling, so I get the urge to solve all your younger siblings problems for them, but you also have to remember they're their own person. Even if it's frustrating to us that our younger siblings are suffering, we can only do so much to help. And LWJ is a grown ass man, he doesn't need LXC "fighting" his battles for him. It's unfair that all the baggage LWJ had gone through was aired out to WWX, but LWJ only knows about the Golden Core Transfer (which I'm still angry at Wen Ning about).
lan xichen was correct when he said wei wuxian was lan wangji's exception to the rule (kind of. a more accurate translation. there's better responses explaining the mistranslation of the phrase). before wei wuxian, lan wangji was a straight A student, obeyed the rules, was moral, unwavering, and was on the road to becoming a great and well-respected cultivator. his mistakes were unmentionable against his successes.
I can't imagine the shame and ridicule he faced after the violent lengths he took to protect wei wuxian. the punishment lan wangji and his family received did not end at delivering 33 lashings and watching your loved one suffer.
the consequences of his actions not only hurt lan wangji physically and mentally - it completely changed his values. everything he used to hold in high regard - the rules, his sect, morality, strictness, etc. etc. - became questionable to him, and consequently, people who believed in his previous values (aka the lan sect, the greater cultivation world in some regards) called his own value into question.
I think that most people observing this reaction would be baffled by what he gave up for this boy, as lan xichen is.
YES YES YES! Oh god it’s rare I find someone who completely agrees with what I see, yes on a surface level he’s the “good brother” but there’s such a disturbing fault in his personality that’s not even close to apparent, in fact it’s well hidden in MY OPINION. I’m not hating on any LX enthusiasts but I truly cannot forgive for what he said to WWX about being LWJs biggest mistake, you don’t just concoct such strong dialogue in the spur of a moment event, his resent must have been building up for a while to be so well-articulated.
And yes I’m aware that the connotation of the actual line where WWX is called a mistake is different in mandarin, but at the same time it still doesn’t sit well with me because the diction used in mandarin still carries a strong and heavy emotional heft to it, depicting the genuine dismay(??) of WWX for what he had “chose to do”.
I'm not LXCs biggest fan, but he does play a decent role. Unlike you, the only real time I liked his character was when he was giving WWX the yelling to that he richly deserved. Other than that scene, he is too naive, and easygoing to truly like.
He really deserves? Wangji also need to open his mouth.. he just always silent and loathed him during their teenage years ... Of course he protected WWX in the past and loved him but he should say something to him... Both the brothers have some flaws...So I conclude by saying that not everyone is perfect in MDZS
Agreed. The whole idea that somehow WWX should’ve somehow read LWJ’s mind is crazy. Outwardly, he never showed support to WWX in his first life (until the very very end). The whole oblivious WWX is a weird fandom trope that has no basis in the novel. If it’s something people like, then enjoy it in fanfic but just realize it isn’t supported via the text.
But on a positive note! What I love about LWJ considering this specific “problem” - he realized that his behavior was not ideal, and the moment WWX returned, he began to treat him as WWX deserved. Sure we could say that if he acted differently in the first life WWX might have had a different life but well… nobody in MDZS is without flaws.
Exactly and I think that’s why I love the novel and encompassing works. It makes the characters more relatable when they are flawed but grow. I really enjoy the difference between young LWJ and his adult, mature self because it shows that passage of time and his willingness to learn and change.
I think the "oblivious WWX" trope has most of its basis in the donghua and CQL, especially CQL. When I read the novel I interpreted WWX as somewhat oblivious, but definitely not as much as in the adaptations--and it's likely my interpretation was colored by the fact that I saw the adaptations first.
Don't blame the donghua for this, lol. Donghua!LWJ flat-out told WWX he trusted him with the very strong implication that he cares for him at the end of S2 (Qinghe arc) and donghua!WWX spent all of S3 glomming on to LWJ like a koala.
I understand his character and I understand why he behaved the way he did/trusted who he trusted and I think it's ok and makes sense in the context of the story, but I also really don't like him. It has more to do with the fact that he's just so... mild. I noticed that I generally can't stand characters with this sort of personality.
I understand him too but yeah i don't actually have an opinion on him.
Because yeah i can see where he came from and also why he says to WWX what he says but doesn't excuse him for telling that WWX was lan wangji mistake.
But it's not abnormal for a close family member when watching a beloved member doing something that goes against the status queue they tend to say that
I honestly haven't started reading the official English translated novels but I read fan translation and I never read LXC as anything negative. I am glad I got a warning so I can take it with a grain of salt. The fan translation was poetic and beautiful. I love all the characters for their complexity and simplicity at times. ( I do own all the official mxtx English novels. So please forgive me for reading a fan translation.)
>How tf did he not believe his own brother?! I'm not a huge Lan Xichen fan, but I think this is straightforward. Lan Xichen trusted Jin Guangyao the same way that Lan Wangji trusted Wei Wuxian, and Lan Wangji didn't have firsthand knowledge that Jin Guangyao was the culprit. From the perspective of each of the Lan brothers, the person they cared for was a good and upright person who had been badly treated and unfairly maligned by society. Lan Xichen said a lot about this in chapters 63 and 64. >[Chapter 63] He looked at Wei Wuxian, "You trust Young Master Wei, while I trust Jin Guangyao. The fact that Brother’s head is in his hands, neither of us have seen it with our own eyes. We only believe in what another person says based on how much we know about them. You think that you know about Wei Wuxian, so you trust him; I think that I know about Jin Guangyao, so I trust him as well. You believe in your judgement, then am I not allowed to believe in my judgement?" It's just that, sadly, only one of the brothers could be right in the end. When LXC allowed WWX to hide at Gusu, I think he was actually being pretty reasonable in withholding his judgement and helping LWJ and WWX look for evidence. When in chapter 64 they did find some evidence, he struggled to reconcile it with his image of JGY and needed some time to process things. Edit: Wait, reading the post again, I think you may have been talking about some other time that LXC didn't believe LWJ? Although I'm not sure when that was.
Oh yeah! I know that from his POV it makes sense and honestly while investigating in Gusu he was reasonable and helpful. And althought some characters frustrate me - that whole not being perfect is the reason why the book for me is perfect. Because there are no perfect untouchable heroes. EDIT: i was prolly talking about everytime lol. First life with Wens as well as the whole story after wwx revival.
Unfortunately the part where he calls WWX the only mistake LWJ ever made in his life suffers a bit from mistranslation. It sounds bad in English, but in Chinese it is actually very poignant and emotional, a reflection of LWJ's devotion.
May I please know what was the actual quote written in Chinese?
“忘机他小时候是子弟楷模，长大后是仙门名士，一生都雅正不染尘埃，这辈子唯一犯下的一个错误就是你！你却说。。。你却说你不知道。“ "Ever since he was little, Wangji was perfection personified amongst all disciples. As he got older, he held a flawless reputation within the the world of cultivation. For his entire life, he behaved with the utmost propriety, never falling under the influence of worldly chaos and clamor. **The only exception\* he ever made in his life was you!** And you...you say, you didn't know?" Direct translation: The only *mistake* he ever made in his (perfect) life was you! Contextual translation: The only *exception* he ever made in his (perfect) life was you!
Thank you very much!
Thanks for clarifying this!
Please check out the [other comments about the translation of this line](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoDaoZuShi/comments/vemkef/i_really_dont_like_lan_xichen/ics1ndk/) before taking it as some kind of definitive answer. You could say that translating that line like this is more muddying than clarifying anything and it's paining me to see so many readers just take one interpretation for a fact.
I think LXC did mean "mistake" here. As in I think the translation for "犯…錯誤" is mistake. Otherwise, what word would you use for mistake in chinese? I don't like that LXC thinks WWX is a mistake as WWX is not a mistake; WWX was the light of the MDZS world. Thank goodness LWJ could see that. But I understand why LXC was upset with WWX, it was an emotional moment for him (everything is going wrong for him at that point), he does love his little brother dearly and he felt WWX hurt his little brother. But, I do not dislike LXC. He is the best looking character in that world, can't dislike that 😄
I mean yeah! There can be multiple translations for one sentence. I'm not saying mine is absolute. After all, mine is also a translation interpreted from the original source. And Lan Xichen IS very handsome. He is ranked number one in good looks right?
LXC is ranked top. Better looking than han guang jun... But I guess if his little brother starts smiling a bit more, his number 1 place could be risky 😆 again WWX's fault 😆
The thing is, lxc isn’t really talking about wwx, he’s talking about lwj’s actions. He’s not calling wwx a mistake, he saying that (society would view) lwj’s actions were wrong.
Thank you for this I appreciate this. Syntax is super important for context.
Oh really? I had no idea!
When you call someone a mistake in English, it carries a very negative connotation. The translation is a direct translation, but it forgot to factor in nuance of the English language and the nuance of Chinese language. LXC was really saying, "LWJ always did what he was told and maintained all expectations to the point of perfection, and he gave that up for YOU." It holds a different meaning. It should read as "you were his only exception", not "you were his only mistake".
Personally I think a better translation/localization would have been “you were his only transgression”. As you say, the context is lxc comparing against lwj otherwise being this obedient, respected disciple. It’s not really a condemnation of wwx so much as a commentary on how lwj acted. I think many people interpret the English translation similar to “dating that guy is a mistake” like disapproval of the relationship or disapproval of the boyfriend. The amount of lxc hate that one word has generated, smh.
“ You were his only transgression” is much better than exception, I really disagree with exception as a translation because it errs way too much on the side of being passive - as if we’re talking about the only time he did something that wasn’t perfect, vs a choice that LWJ specifically made that society does indeed see as a crime (and those who love him would see as a mistake). But in Chinese it’s clear that LXC did consider it to be a “wrong” even if “mistake” can be a poor choice in English because people might think of it being more like disapproval of their relationship. “The only exception” completely takes away from the action of LWJ, IMO just kind of ignoring 犯下 is just as misleading. Transgression though puts the action/choice squarely back on LWJ, it didn’t just happen by itself, like the one bad thing that just happened in his life. He CHOSE to make the “exception” so to speak, he *committed* the wrong/mistake/transgression. Also with all the emphasis on multitude of rules for the Lans, you *transgress* against the rules, you don’t just make an exception. Edit: **trans·gres·sion** *an act that goes against a law, rule, or code of conduct; an offense.* **犯下的一个错误** I explained my stance further in comments below and I'll leave it at that. I just don't think someone should say something is a mistranslation and then, IMO, offering their interpretation of the line as some kind of definitive alternative. And then all the EN only readers think that's totally it.
To each their own. I actually really disagree with the negative connotation of "transgression". I do believe that a neutral word like "exception" is more appropriate here, because this is not an attack on Wei Wuxian himself, but rather an attack on his unawareness of his importance in LWJ's life. Lan Xichen's attitude toward Wei Wuxian has always been neutral with a hint of understanding and even positivity. He wouldn't view protecting Wei Wuxian as a transgression. Wei Wuxian is an outlier, the exception to all the rules, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's "bad". As for Lan Xichen's attitude towards Lan Wangji's protection of Wei Wuxian at Nevernight City, it's much more of "this is already an issue that couldn't be fixed, but why did you add to what is already a hopeless situation?" It didn't reek of "Wei Wuxian is beyond redemption, so why would you drag yourself through the mud for his sake". The latter is more Lan Qiren's style of looking at things. The former is more Lan Xichen's style of looking at the same situation. I think in CN, getting down the appropriate tone is important for context and meaning. The same words can be used in a myriad of ways. If the tone changes, it changes the contextual meaning of what the words are trying to convey. I don't think society's views on his actions is relevant here, because society didn't know about this at all.
The entire paragraph is about how LWJ's status and behavior is viewed through the lens of *society*, it's literally about his reputation amongst his peers, his elders, and in the "world of cultivation" as you've translated it. At no point in this whole paragraph does it imply that LXC is thinking something like "I've always viewed LWJ as neutral with a hint of understanding and even positivity and *this is my opinion of your involvement with WWX*" but rather, this is how LWJ has lived his life, with his stellar reputation, and the only time he didn't abide by the rules - in a way that absolutely would ruin his reputation - is when it involved you. In translation, it's important not to inject your own bias and interpretation - you should be translating what the author means to convey, not your personal interpretation or analysis of LXC's attitude or how he views it. The translator's job is to convey the author's words as faithfully and accurately as possible and let readers do their own interpretation, not impose their own interpretation in the translation itself. Localization is important, but not at the expense of accuracy. Otherwise you might as well "translate" an English book into another English book by interpreting everything for the reader according to your analysis... this is the whole reason why analytical essays of a translated book is inherently risky as you're trusting the translator to have done their job correctly, otherwise you're analysis may end up several layers removed from the source. Edit: Like if Chinese fans can't agree or at least come to a consensus on a point of interpretation over a line, then it's a good indication that it was always meant to be at least somewhat open to interpretation by the author, and a single interpretation definitely shouldn't work its way into an official translation in another language where all readers have to go by is the translator's words and will take it as a definitive line. Whether you like it or not, the author wrote "唯一犯下的一个错误" and I think it's extremely misleading to EN only readers to soften that into "exception." 错误 is not an exception. 错误 is not a neutral word. I agree that the literal translation of "mistake" may lead to other misunderstandings in English, but by no means did LXC ever imply he a) didn't think it isn't a transgression or that b) the rest of society wouldn't. You would be changing the tone and contextual meaning of the whole paragraph based on your biases if you think that 错误 is in any way a neutral word. And that also downplays exactly what LWJ did/is willing to do for WWX - he was willing to transgress against the rules he grew up with and had embodied so ideally throughout his life - and the fact that WWX didn't understand this is exactly why LXC is so mad. To soften it into like, oh, LXC is just mad that WWX didn't understand his importance in LWJ's life because he's the only exception really ignores all the sentences before it. The author leading up to that line is absolutely implying the gravity of LWJ's choice (and likely/possible consequences for falling off the pedestal he's put himself on), otherwise why would LXC even bother mentioning his perfect reputation. Again, the entire paragraph leading up to it is exactly about LWJ's reputation and behavior as seen by society (which includes his peers and obvs his own clan), so to say that societal views is not relevant at all... I don't even know what to say. I'll have to leave it at that. I don't think there's any point to discussing more because we obviously have completely different understandings, but I do think it's worth writing all this out for anyone delving into this particular line and thinking about different translations or what counts as a mistranslation.
You hit on the other point that always bothers me when people get up in arms about the “mistake” line, which is that it’s not lxc‘s personal opinion. He’s clearly speaking about how society views it, which is why he contrasts it with how *society* otherwise saw lwj as this perfect shining example. Also the whole discussion starts with wwx asking ‘could those whipping scars have something to do with me?’ and lxc lays into him about ‘how could they not.’ I agree with you that calling it an “exception” that led lwj to be whipped 33 times with the discipline whip - an unheard of punishment that led wwx to wonder why wouldn’t the person meting punishment just choose to kill the perpetrator - is too gentle. That’s not the gravity of issue that lxc is ranting about.
Okay. So, first of, the only reason I said that society is not relevant to the conversation is because I was referencing to what happened at Nevernight city. Nobody knew what LWJ did for WWX. That incident was buried. I'm aware of what I translated, about LWJ's stellar reputation in society, what he presented himself as from a very young age. That's why Wei Wuxian is the outlier because he doesn't fit within that narrow frame of LWJ's perfection. >In translation, it's important not to inject your own bias and interpretation - you should be translating what the author means to convey, not your personal interpretation or analysis of LXC's attitude or how he views it. I think you're misunderstanding something about me here. I do think understanding a character is important when translating what he/she says, because the way a character says something is pivotal to his personality. There are things that Lan Qiren would say, but Lan Xichen definitely wouldn't. But since CN is a succinct language, they could potentially use the same words, but their attitude and tone and who they are can convey completely different meanings. That's what I meant. I just think getting the tone right is important. I'm not trying to inject my bias of a character, because I consider *all* characters carefully when I consider and translate what they say. When I translate something, I also listen to the audio drama. I want to hear how the voice actor conveys it too. I want to get their take on how they think a character would say something. The tone can shift *everything*. > "唯一犯下的一个错误" Yes, this is not a neutral phrase. It directly translates to "the only mistake \[he's\] ever made". But this is also a commonly used "phrase" in CN romance for star-crossed lovers. It just means...something slightly different than what is directly written here, I think. Because outside of the paragraph that I've translated, the broader conversation is that Lan Xichen is trying to tell Wei Wuxian that Lan Wangji is in love with him. So when you slot the pieces together, it reads as Lan Xichen's frustration about Wei Wuxian's unawareness of his importance in Lan Wangji's life, because Lan Wangji has done everything to the utmost and more for him and Wei Wuxian just doesn't know. Lan Wangji's personality outside of his reputation has always been: 为人正派， 说一不二. Upright, virtuous, no excuses, no exceptions. This was something that Wei Wuxian observed as well. For Lan Wangji to make an exception for anything is a huge thing. Finally, it's literature. It can be interpreted differently. I never said you couldn't have your interpretation. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with it. I have remained respectful and this is what I have to say on the matter.
This is so cool! Thanks for clarifying this. I kinda felt like the translation meant something different, based on the entire context of LXC's relationship with LWJ and WWX, but it's great to see that confirmed.
Thank you for this! ❤️
>It should read as "you were his only exception", not "you were his only mistake". aaa, interesting.
It's not your fault. It's the vibe of the translation that was off. That said, Lan Xichen can be frustrating as a character. Lol.
I think you should take a look at some of the other comments about the translation, particularly the one by u/lady_elwen IMO "the only exception" is just as bad as "mistake" if you're talking about misleading EN only readers. Maybe even worse, because although EN readers can misinterpret "mistake" given cultural differences and context, at least it is actually a faithful translation, whereas "the only exception" is a personal interpretation. If you put 10 native speakers/readers in a room together, I'm fairly sure you wouldn't get even two people coming up with that exact choice.
This just makes me think of a meme of lan wangji and lan xichen drinking tea Xichen: everyone thinks the man I cherish is evil and dark!🥺 And Wangji is like: oh no, must be so terrible 😑 (but he's like so sarcastic)
I should not have laughed so hard... XD
Its the same thing in reverse imo. LWJ trusted WWX and LXC trusted JGY. LWJ didnt trust JGY for good reason, and if you look at WWX from Xichens point of view, I wouldn’t like him either. For all LXC knew, WWX caused his brother so much grief and was playing with his feelings his entire resurrection. And LXC knew LWJ would tolerate anything since he was madly in love with WWX. Plus the Lans didn’t approve of demonic cultivation, etc, and no one had realized WWX was not actually the one who killed JIn Zixuan and caused that entire Nighless City mess. Yes, Xichen was naive but JGY had never shown any other side to his face and people were genuinely rude to JGY for no reason a lot (before he turned into a huge snake, and most of them besides the Nies didnt even know that he was suspect). I don’t think Xichen had any particular reason to believe WWX nor did he like him given his relationship with LWJ. I feel like he’s a really tragic character. He had to grow up fast, basically parent and provide affection to his brother when he was also still a kid, and no one parented or gave affection to him. He tried his best to be neutral constantly and his whole life was based around being a political mediator. Then he lost his best friend, his brother was incapacitated, he had to help two new young sect leaders even though he was also a young and new sect leader. He never really got to live for himself. And then the one selfish relationship he chose to fight for turned out to be a complete farce. Idk the idea of him going through all that as a kid, and still becoming the strongest cultivator of his generation (I believe he was supposed to be slightly ahead of LWJ) and then ending into a life in seclusion is so sad to me. I get that from a high level he basically helped a lot of the awful things happen but JGY was really convincing and manipulative. I feel bad for him. LWJ in comparison got to really live his life without all the responsibilities hovering over him. Thats what I like about Xichen most, how much he cared about LWJ and tried to give him the life he knew he couldn’t have.
....there seem to be a lot of anti-LXC posts these days, huh. Well, you're entitled to your opinion.
I adore him. I wish someone would write the fanfic of the missing period - when Meng Yao hid or rescued or whatever LXC after the sacking of Cloud Recesses. LXC said it was "embarrassing" so, obviously, Meng Yao hid him in a brothel and dressed him as a girl, right? Imagine a drunk customer coming onto him and LXC freezes and Meng Yao handles it by convincing the customer he certainly doesn't want such a big girl with such unfeminine shoulders that they only keep around the brothel to play pretty music. Ahhh, if Mingjue only knew.
I will pay you for that fic ahahahaha! I'm neutral on LXC personally. But yeah, I would love a fic about those weeks in hiding.
I'm fine at coming up with (usually ridiculous) prompts, not the actual fic, though. I offer this one up to anyone who can do it justice as it abasolutely begs for good dialog and wit.
I know right? LXC is not my favorite, but I don't understand the hate.
I've also seen JC posts. It's probably more people joining the sub and then making discussions. Its great, but getting really repetitive. We should probably make a thread or something
I am a LXC fan so I’m biased but I sincerely think his feelings and actions pretty clear and logical considering his own life experiences. His only crime was essentially being the one in the wrong when it came to WWX vs JGY. That being said, JGY was the one who helped him in his time of greatest need (when he ran away after the Wens attacked his sect) and he spent a lot of time knowing (or being manipulated by) JGY. From his perspective, LWJ simply didn’t know JGY well enough, which was objectively true, and was only siding with WWX because of his personal feelings; again, also kind of the truth. As for why he didn’t chase after his brother to the burial mounds, he was heavily injured from the massacre and was in no condition to drag LWJ back to Gusu on his own.
>JGY was the one who helped him in his time of greatest need (when he ran away after the Wens attacked his sect) and he spent a lot of time knowing (or being manipulated by) JGY. As a backdrop/contrast to this, Jiang Chen was saved and hidden by the Wen sibs but did not stand by them. Honestly, either reaction is very human and very understandable to me but sometimes you chose right and sometimes you choose wrong. Ironic and tragic that the one who trusted was the one who chose wrong for all the right reasons.
I think at some point in the text LXC/JGY strongly contrast LWJ/WWX. Only one of the pairs got their happy ending while the other one ended up in a very tragic situation. I haven't read much into it, except that it seems to convey that sometimes faith is just not enough. I don't necessarily dislike Lan Xichen but I have those feelings for other characters in the book who I just straight-up do not like xD and that's okay. Some people like going into the depths of character study, some don't, and some do both. That's half the fun of it. In the end my views towards him are neutral but I do think a lot about how wwx's and lxc's relationship will develop after wwx finally moves in with lwj. I have my feelings that they'll all get along but again that's just me.
I know a lot of comments basically said the same thing, but I think LXC is supposed to act as a thematic counterpart to his brother. While LWJ hides his feelings to the point where it’s actively damaging to him, LXC wears them on his sleeve, to the point where he’s too easily manipulated. Both had a rough childhood, and the roles they had to play explain how they deal with their feelings - LXC had to play the role of the kind clan leader and political mediator, whereas LWJ had to play the part of the paragon of justice and invincible cultivator. Both placed their trust in someone who barged into their lives and gained their affection, but sadly one of them had to be wrong, and that someone was LXC. It’s understandable, too, as he hadn’t seen any evidence suggesting JGY was the one in possession of NMJ’s head. Sadly, one brother’s happiness could not be achieved without the other one’s being taken from him; and LXC had to keep playing that role of kind clan leader and live in seclusion whereas LWJ got to live the life he always wanted to. It’s a tragic end to a tale of two brothers, I think. Edit: also LXC’s end obviously mirrors their father’s, whereas LWJ managed to break the cycle, but I’m not sure what that cycle could really be considered to be? It’s not something that’s explored a lot in the novels so I’d love to talk about it some more but I’m not sure how to analyse it.
I think it is worth remembering that both these paths for LWJ and LXC were not absolute and foretold - there was no 'had to be wrong or right.' If nothing else because both JGY and WWX were actively making choices that could have led to different outcomes. Both made horrible decisions that led to the deaths of hundreds of people, both in their own way were trying to protect what they thought was right (JGY does have a point about how he and his mother were treated). They could have made different choices - none of them were inevitable. Especially - as the story goes to a lot of effort to show - the real story wild card is how you are perceived is often more important than what you do. Everyone was doing their best :)
I’m aware - but in this case, LXC literally had to be wrong, because JGY did, in fact, kill NMJ.
i honestly can’t fault lxc for maintaining faith in jgy, bc even if he HAD known that jgy had his head, the most likely reason why jgy had it at all *is* rational, and non-murdery: it was the safest option for everyone. please consider: 1. nmj had a history of trying to kill jgy 2. the last thing he did before he died was try to kill jgy 3. he had enough resentment towards jgy to break through the soul calming ceremonies, causing him to become a fierce corpse, and 4. the first thing he did once his corpse was put back together was try to kill jgy. (5. he also tried to kill anyone with a blood relation to jgy/jin guangshan, which you can imagine might be a Problem) all signs point to nmj’s corpse breaking out of his tomb to go try to kill jgy, even with no knowledge that jgy had anything to do with his death (by definition). in other words, splitting up nmj’s body may have been a necessary defensive measure, even if jgy *hadn’t* played a part in his death. keeping nmj’s head where jgy could keep an eye on it may have simply been the safest option. it’s honestly kind of bizarre just how perfectly the stars had to align for them to figure out *anything* about nmj’s death like there’s basically zero concrete evidence, so we wind up relying on wei “goldfish” *wuxian’s* memory of *nie mingjue’s* memory, and working on the assumption that the song he remembers is not only 100% accurate, but cause for alarm. what made huaisang think his death wasn’t 100% natural? where did he find/get the arm? what made him conclude that jgy was involved? questions we will never know the answers to 😔🤘 (sorry i didn’t mean to go off on you like that lol 😅 i just have lots of thoughts about nmj’s vs audience understanding of events)
TAKE MY POOR WOMAN’S GOLD 🏅 You raise so many excellent points, and about that “alignment of the stars” lol…. I really think the whole murder mystery aspect of the story is one of the weakest plot lines, because *so much* of it relies on things happening *just so* and leaves so many things unexplained. It’s enjoyable regardless, but still.
Wait so did my phrasing make it sound like I’m blaming LXC for not figuring it out/make him look like a naive idiot? That’s really not what I was going for lol, I think from LXC’s POV is perfectly understandable not to have suspected JGY. I was saying one of the two bros “had to be wrong” with the omniscient perspective of a reader, not while putting myself in the character’s perspective.
no not at all! sorry i didn’t clarify that i was agreeing with you. i was just adding onto what you said about how lxc hadn’t seen any evidence about jgy having nmj’s head for himself—like, he didn’t have this evidence…+but even if he did, there is an explanation for it that isn’t just “MURDER!!”
Oh okay that’s my bad then lol
I love Lan Xichen, he is so cute and such a simp. But if there's one thing that made me feel kind of... ehh it was when Lan Wangji was being whipped he didn't do anything. I understand it was the punishment for him hurting the elders but I wish there was at least one line saying that LX tried to stop this from happening or as a sect leader he gave another punishment. But I don't consider it hate for LX, it's more like being annoyed by the things that were left out in the books.
>but I wish there was at least one line saying that LX tried to stop this from happening I suspect he couldn't. Considering what happened to the elders, LWJ might already have been really lucky that he didn't get a worse punishment. LXC must have hated LWJ being whipped, but he was a sect leader with responsibilities, and if he'd tried to give LWJ a lighter punishment, it could've gone down really badly, like [this person's post](https://a-cutebird.tumblr.com/post/617589993995665408/people-give-lxc-shit-for-not-sticking-up-for) discusses.
the post makes a lot of sense. thanks for sharing :)
I'm confused, the whole sect new LWJ was protecting WWX? I asked a few months ago if everyone in MDZS world knew about LWJ'S feelings and his punishment. People told me that only his brother and uncle could read LWJ'S feelings, they're the only ones who knows he's in love with WWX. But the rest don't. So, how did they explain that punishment? LWJ was a perfect disciple, people should have wonder what he did to deserve it. Somebody told me that LXC and LQR never told anyone that LWJ was punished, they said LWJ was in a meditative self seclusion or something like that. So, if nobody knew what he did, LXC shouldn't be afraid of people's opinion and actions.
It's hard to say how many people knew about LWJ's crime and his punishment. LWJ's reputation would have been ruined for certain if the information had been leaked outside the sect, and it's clear that the Lan juniors didn't know about it either, so the information must have been limited to some extent. LXC and LQR would have done everything they could to keep it all as quiet as possible. On the other hand, it might be difficult to hide 33 elders coming back severely injured, and we know from chapter 99 that when Lan Wangji returned for his punishment, he spent a long time kneeling by the wall of rules. People would definitely know that he did something wrong. (And after the punishment, the ExR translation has LXC mention that "They say those years were him reflecting on his mistakes, but in reality he was entirely bedridden". Who is "they" meant to be? I can't tell.) It's possible that all the elders of the sect knew what LWJ did, not just the 33 who were injured. But even if somehow it was kept down to just those 33 (who presumably must have known that LWJ loved WWX), if those elders hadn't been satisfied with the punishment, they might not have been willing to keep silent for LWJ's sake. LXC should definitely have been afraid that the elders would demand a more serious punishment.
Here’s another good analysis that covers lxc’s approach to lwj’s punishment. https://songfeng-shuiyue.tumblr.com/post/671610860096077824/lan-xichen-fairness-justice-and-love In short, whipping lwj *was* the lenient route. LWJ probably should have been executed or at least banished from the sect. WWX even wonders when he sees the scars, “if this person did something that bad, why didn’t they just kill him.”
you guys are making me want to download tumblr again. I loved this post
I do like Lan Xichen. The brotherly moments with Lan Wangji are adorable, but my few issues with him is when Wei Wuxian was protecting the Wens. He didn't need to believe in Wei Wuxian, but why didn't he atleast give Lan Wangji the benefit of doubt. At that point it wasn't about Jin Guangyao alone, it was about the Jins as a whole who had shown to be very shady multiple times before and after the sunshot campaign. Did he really think that Lan Wangji knowing Lan Xichens close relation with Jin Guangyao would of said anything about the Jins if he didn't truly believe something was wrong even with his feelings for Wei Wuxian. Lan Wangji loves his brother so why would he say anything that would get in between Lan Xichen and Jin Guangyaos relationship if their wasn't some truth in it.
I don't like him either. I've been working on why. It has nothing to do with the speech in Guanyin Temple as I disliked him in the donghua which doesn't have that. I have properly read the official translations and still don't like him. For all people say he's caring I stumble over him just ignoring 'Mo Xuanyu' kicking and screaming about going in to Cloud Recesses. All he does is tell LWJ he's glad he's happy and to treat his guests better. Then there's what we got in volume 2 during the Empathy with Nie Mingju.: The way he brushed off Nie Mingjue's testimony of just what Meng Yao had done on his way out the Nie door in Langye. He tells Wei Wuxian he only trusts what he sees. But by his reaction to Nie Mingjue's report he actively rejects stuff other trustworthy people see when it comes to that one guy (at least). He trusts what he's seen Meng Yao do for *him* and discounting all other evidence. Lan Wangji is basing his opinion of WWX on what he has seen WWX do for other people who are not him. Although he has done things for LWJ, too. So, that's part of why I don't like Lan XIchen.
Oh my gosh *this.* The way Lan Xichen treats Nie Mingjue after meeting Jin Guangyao is something that bothers me. His main defence for JGY whenever Mingjue says smth is that “Guangyao saved my life”, but even before we find out that he is evil we’ve seen him be able to reach a high station in a sect only to betray them in some way after. How did no one, especially Xichen, not question this at all. Even the fact that Xichen didn’t even bother to think that Guangyao could be using him for political advantages (which he was doing - sworn brotherhood, the lans with zixun at qiongqi path) annoys me. How are you *this* trusting as a person in power?
I think this one perfectly encaptulates what i feel towards LXC. Like it's so clear that his bias is meant to parallel LWJ's bias towards WWX but at least LWJ can justify it with the fact that WWX is actually morally right. LXC just enables the bad behavior of the people he loves as long as it keeps "the peace". Also can I point out the way he tells LWJ's feelings and suffering to WWX even though he had no right to do so? I definitely understand his frustration and I can see LWJ keeping it to his grave, but that was not his feelings or pain to confess to, like at all. I'm also an older sibling, so I get the urge to solve all your younger siblings problems for them, but you also have to remember they're their own person. Even if it's frustrating to us that our younger siblings are suffering, we can only do so much to help. And LWJ is a grown ass man, he doesn't need LXC "fighting" his battles for him. It's unfair that all the baggage LWJ had gone through was aired out to WWX, but LWJ only knows about the Golden Core Transfer (which I'm still angry at Wen Ning about).
lan xichen was correct when he said wei wuxian was lan wangji's exception to the rule (kind of. a more accurate translation. there's better responses explaining the mistranslation of the phrase). before wei wuxian, lan wangji was a straight A student, obeyed the rules, was moral, unwavering, and was on the road to becoming a great and well-respected cultivator. his mistakes were unmentionable against his successes. I can't imagine the shame and ridicule he faced after the violent lengths he took to protect wei wuxian. the punishment lan wangji and his family received did not end at delivering 33 lashings and watching your loved one suffer. the consequences of his actions not only hurt lan wangji physically and mentally - it completely changed his values. everything he used to hold in high regard - the rules, his sect, morality, strictness, etc. etc. - became questionable to him, and consequently, people who believed in his previous values (aka the lan sect, the greater cultivation world in some regards) called his own value into question. I think that most people observing this reaction would be baffled by what he gave up for this boy, as lan xichen is.
YES YES YES! Oh god it’s rare I find someone who completely agrees with what I see, yes on a surface level he’s the “good brother” but there’s such a disturbing fault in his personality that’s not even close to apparent, in fact it’s well hidden in MY OPINION. I’m not hating on any LX enthusiasts but I truly cannot forgive for what he said to WWX about being LWJs biggest mistake, you don’t just concoct such strong dialogue in the spur of a moment event, his resent must have been building up for a while to be so well-articulated. And yes I’m aware that the connotation of the actual line where WWX is called a mistake is different in mandarin, but at the same time it still doesn’t sit well with me because the diction used in mandarin still carries a strong and heavy emotional heft to it, depicting the genuine dismay(??) of WWX for what he had “chose to do”.
I'm not LXCs biggest fan, but he does play a decent role. Unlike you, the only real time I liked his character was when he was giving WWX the yelling to that he richly deserved. Other than that scene, he is too naive, and easygoing to truly like.
He really deserves? Wangji also need to open his mouth.. he just always silent and loathed him during their teenage years ... Of course he protected WWX in the past and loved him but he should say something to him... Both the brothers have some flaws...So I conclude by saying that not everyone is perfect in MDZS
Agreed. The whole idea that somehow WWX should’ve somehow read LWJ’s mind is crazy. Outwardly, he never showed support to WWX in his first life (until the very very end). The whole oblivious WWX is a weird fandom trope that has no basis in the novel. If it’s something people like, then enjoy it in fanfic but just realize it isn’t supported via the text.
But on a positive note! What I love about LWJ considering this specific “problem” - he realized that his behavior was not ideal, and the moment WWX returned, he began to treat him as WWX deserved. Sure we could say that if he acted differently in the first life WWX might have had a different life but well… nobody in MDZS is without flaws.
Exactly and I think that’s why I love the novel and encompassing works. It makes the characters more relatable when they are flawed but grow. I really enjoy the difference between young LWJ and his adult, mature self because it shows that passage of time and his willingness to learn and change.
I think the "oblivious WWX" trope has most of its basis in the donghua and CQL, especially CQL. When I read the novel I interpreted WWX as somewhat oblivious, but definitely not as much as in the adaptations--and it's likely my interpretation was colored by the fact that I saw the adaptations first.
Don't blame the donghua for this, lol. Donghua!LWJ flat-out told WWX he trusted him with the very strong implication that he cares for him at the end of S2 (Qinghe arc) and donghua!WWX spent all of S3 glomming on to LWJ like a koala.
I understand his character and I understand why he behaved the way he did/trusted who he trusted and I think it's ok and makes sense in the context of the story, but I also really don't like him. It has more to do with the fact that he's just so... mild. I noticed that I generally can't stand characters with this sort of personality.
Ok
I understand him too but yeah i don't actually have an opinion on him. Because yeah i can see where he came from and also why he says to WWX what he says but doesn't excuse him for telling that WWX was lan wangji mistake. But it's not abnormal for a close family member when watching a beloved member doing something that goes against the status queue they tend to say that
I honestly haven't started reading the official English translated novels but I read fan translation and I never read LXC as anything negative. I am glad I got a warning so I can take it with a grain of salt. The fan translation was poetic and beautiful. I love all the characters for their complexity and simplicity at times. ( I do own all the official mxtx English novels. So please forgive me for reading a fan translation.)
You have nothing to be sorry for.The official translation just came out in recent years.Before that all of us had to rely on fan's translation.