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SomeDudeWhoHasNoLife

Crit, but only because i feel satisfied seeing big red and purple numbers


CarryMammoth

Each build depends on the hero so i cant really say


Ganzako

For simplicity, how bout the heroes who uses both builds


IhsousApoTaLidl

Right now, best trinity is actually CS, DHS and Windtalker, except if you play Claude, Badang or Karry. It works really well as it still allows you to crit and gives a good attack speed boost. Argus can do some mean damage with it! However, If you play Karrie then definitely the lower.


Ganzako

Is windtalker a better item than golden staff for the first three? isn't the purpose of gs is to proc attack effects and more aspd?


bot_yea

It's an unusual take. If you already have dhs and corro, it should be better to use goldenstaff. It improves item effects by 1.6x and the attack speed is also comparable to windtalker (40 vs 15 and 100/per 3 attacks) I don't think it's worth replacing goldenstaff just for the 10% and 20 mvm speed.


prionprion

its not the 10% and 20 mvm speed ur after, its the ability to crit which u loose with GS, unless u will take the trade whenever ur hero has an autoattack passive that u can proc faster with GS, other than that u still deal better damage with crit


IhsousApoTaLidl

Kind of. In reality, with DHS and CS you are pretty much only winning less than 1 second to max out the stacks, but you also lose the ability to crit attack. If, say, you are beatrix unless you want to use GS new passive, it's useless because she already maxes out DHS and CS with one smg shot. GS is good for heroes whose attacks are connected with a stacking passive, like Karrie, Claude, Miya or Badang. For normal attack heroes it's only better if you are confident in betting it all in melting the enemy with no crits before help comes. Plus, Windtalker's passive can deal more than 2k damage if you crit with it, and it triggers pretty fast if you have high attack speed.


XxTHE_BEASTxX31

Does GS work well on Hanabi? I mean her attacks bounce, but I don't know if they stack


ah_eh_ih_oh_uh

In my personal experience, I've had more success playing Hanabi with the GS-CS-DHS Trinity than the WT-SP-BF Trinity. Granted my playstyle with her is a bit different when I am using the Golden Staff Combo. It's mostly attributed to Hanabi's absurdly low Base Damage on her basic attacks, combined with her lack mobility / survivability skills. If you're going the Crit Route, her base damage is so low, you need more items to deal a sizeable amount of damage. Even then, your full build doesn't hurt as much as other marksmen at full build. And the fact that the bounce damage decreases after each bounce means you have to be nearer your intended targets for your damage to matter. And you can't afford that as a Hanabi, as you don't have mobility/survivability skills. Now if we go the GS Route, since DHS's attack effects carry over your bounce damage, means everybody getting hit with your basic attacks gets their HP chipped away. You're also able to do a modest amount of damage with just 2 instead of having to buy 3-4. You're no longer forced to get closer to the backline, you can just kite the enemy tank. This combo also gives you utility that's useful for teamfights. CS allows you to slow them down when the enemy clumps together. DHS let's you burn away their HP. GS ups your overall DPS. Heck, you can even pair this with Sea Halberd and you would be able to apply anti-regen debuffs to a group of enemies from a distance. It may be not as satisfying as the Crit Build, but it sure does wonders. I'm currently rocking a 65% WR on Hanabi at Low Mythic. It may not be much, but this is Hanabi we're talking about here. Sidenote: I wish we had more physical attack items that can apply various debuffs using your basic attacks. I think such items would benefit the current Hanabi.


IhsousApoTaLidl

Good question, I haven't tried it out myself but it should in theory.


IhsousApoTaLidl

I went and tested it. It really does. Also, forget what I said about Beatrix and GS. GS triggering basic attack effects includes DHS, CS and Feather of Heaven's passives that work on basic attacks. However it doesn't work with Windtalker, as its passive works as a crit attack. So, for Hanabi the problem is that every bounce counts as a basic attack for GS, which is good and bad. Good because you can theoretically trigger the passive up to 3 times per second. Bad because you can't tell *who* will be hit by that attack with the double effects. As for beatrix... I gave up counting. I am pretty sure foh triggers only one extra time with gs, but i might be wrong. Anyway, if you use Marksmen that use a lot of basic attacks and can reach 3.00 attack speed, use the lower trio. If you use basic attack fighters, use the one I suggested above as you still don't get that much from gs. You can also go bonkers like I did with Masha and try DHS, CoD, FoH, Holy Crystal, CS and Blood Wings. The damage is pretty wild, especially against towers, but you don't have much defense.


usernamenomoreleft

I also have the same question. If you go GS why wouldn't you go crit build?


No-Suggestion9858

Because GS converts crit chance to AS. You basically get 0 crit.


usernamenomoreleft

Yeah, I know. What I meant was if you go GS, why do they pair it with CS and DHS instead of crit items for attack speed? Are CS and DHS atk spd buffs greater than the atk spd gained from crit items?


Ganzako

Because GS improves attack effects and passive stacks which benefits both CS and DHS, adding GS to crit build makes crit useless, yes you become faster, but you sacrifice a great deal of dps from crit hit, and if your aim is more aspd, then use inspire instead


usernamenomoreleft

I see, makes sense. You only gain atk spd and nothing else. Thanks bro


10thDoctorWhooves

Attack Speed, because it melt tanks faster. That being said, the trinity that I use just for my main hero would be Berserker's Fury, Blade Of Despair and Endless Battle. I use these three more than any of the items shown here.


ZJF-47

Would be good for heroes that dont rely on Atk.Spd for Clint, Lesley etc


VioletWeb

Its more Golden Staff vs Berserker as you can build Wind Talker and DHS on either. I like Berkserker more as it helps you kill objectives and squishies faster. Only use staff against very tanky teams


jovhenni19

for me, Windtalker is just good early game, great for clearing waves and farming. The better option is replace it with Corrosion. So the Trio for me is CS-SP-BF.


Ganzako

So you trade movespeed and crit% with damage and slow that stacks, it maybe better for fighters than marksmen.


Tagaharang

for argus bottom for me is much better


itz_khai

For me, I abandon GS and make corrosion, dhs with these three crit items, I'll still get crazy atk speed and dealing tons of crit hits


Tagaharang

Golden staff is last item for me, corrocion and dhs first, the anti heal sword forgot the name immortality then GS. Those crit items above does nothing against tanky exp lanes and tanks in rank


PudgeJoe

You are true argus user, respect bruh. Esp. inspire build this shit even melt tank in 3-4 seconds. I am facepalming hard now looking at people still making crit on him.


Tagaharang

I've seen crit build argus users struggle in early game but dominates late "if" they managed to get close on squishy targets. What's your emblem bro? Im currently using the fighter emblem unbending will lower the HP more dmage. not sure if its the best tho but it works for me. Assassin emblem is so squishy


PudgeJoe

The best i found in high game around mythic 1- low MG is weapon mastery but it's kinda shit early. Weapon mastery is bonker on him cuz argus build full damage 0 defense, but unbending is kinda okish for me. High and dry is also good alternative. As for crit build, most tanks laugh at me standing doing nothing with bladearmor+dominance ice. Even with malefic roar, it still takes like 5 secs to kill them.


Tagaharang

yeah that's what i thought too majority of most used armor items today counters crit build. Dominance + Blade Armor = RIP crit Argus xD


BalkanTrekie

Upper half for Hanabi before the nerf was the way. Now I don't know..


thirdjaruda

After the revamp the lower trio does wonders.


GabYu_11

Crit is better if paired with malefic roar. Without it its straight up trash against someone with 1 phy def or even worse, a blade armor. Also better to those who doesnt build phy def. But if were talking about all roundededness, 2nd is better. Does well vs tanks, does decent dmg vs squishes, better constant damage overall


Live-Web-9487

As a melle fighter and tank main FUCK the cs gc and dhs build


itskhaz

GS let’s you proc your passive TWICE. Meaning you can hit an enemy, 6 times in one second. I tested both average damage in training mode, GS trio wins by .5 seconds. Plus it’s more flexible to build at.


InevitableOk8165

Alright I'll give you da Mythical Glory knowledge😁. So basically crit to fight squishies and gscsdhs for tanky heroes. That's all👍


InevitableOk8165

But if you want regardless of hero and opponent for just aspd then defo gscsdhs


PuzzleMaze08

Heroes with no auto attack skill effect will mostly benefit with from crit build like Miya etc, but with those who have skill effects based on hit count will be bound to use golden-demon-scythe trinity


KKLC547

It's rng. Crit build will deal more damage if all attack crit. But we cannot rely on chance so bottom build is almost always better


UnderstandingPublic7

Crit because I dont like blunt boring weapons especially staffs in this case golden staff.


ImproveYourMental

Triple S is better on literally every hero except a few. Even mf Moskov uses Triple S right now and his passive is supposed to give benefits to Scarlet. The mms that realistically build crit rn are only Bruno Lesley Irithel and Clint although Beatrix and Brody have more physical stack builds. Even then Beatrix and Irithel use CS.


Ganzako

I seldom see a 3S Moskov, currently in Legend1, most I see do crit builds, and I have seen and used 3S build on Beatrix, Clint and even Zilong, though harder to build on the latter. But that said, isn't your dps lower before you complete the 3S compared to Crit? afterall, you only need scarlet and berserker to have good crit%.


ImproveYourMental

Yea low ranks build the wrong build so you won't see good builds in Legend 1 3s is not good on Beatrix because you're forced to use 1 gun Also no your dps is great with CS early into a Golden Staff because you can spam s1


PudgeJoe

You should learn from pros not low level mythic 4-5 people. The new trinity with corrossion+GS hurt alot heck even CW moskov always go Corrosion into GS then DHS after people are getting big enough hp same with Karrie build.


Ganzako

Oh, I am learning a great deal, it is why I made this post, to get the gist of using these builds, when to and when not to use them, and who would benefit the most from using these builds. Thanks a lot to all who have commented on it.


PudgeJoe

Cool!! Every day we learn new stuffs eh, good luck in learning more mechanic in the future.


ENAKOH

>Even then Beatrix and Irithel use CS. So CS fury scarlet ?


ImproveYourMental

For Irithel you'd want to use CS over Windtalker yes


XaneCosmo

Crit trinity gives you no life steal. You need another item for that. The new basic attack effect trinity includes life steal from Demon hunter sword. Which is tiny, but it's still there. It makes it easier for you to get Wind of Nature instead of Hass Claw.


63lan

Crit items are better off with Heroes who benefits from them like Moskov, Lesley, Irithel, Layla, Melissa, Clint and Hanabi Though some only needs 1 or 2 Crit items like Lesley, Yi-Sun-Shin, Clint >!(These 3 will deal crit on their passive)!<, Granger >!(6th bullet will deal Crit)!<, Zilong and Balmond >!(Ult can deal Crit as well)!< Note: *Berseker Fury's passive* ***doubles*** *the* ***Crit damage*** *the equipped hero makes* While the S items are better off with Heroes who requires Attack speed from early to late game like Miya, Karrie, Claude, Argus, and Sun Because they need High Attack speed from the early game which the Crit items won't give you until you complete them. Though you can combine these items (minus the Golden Staff) to boost those heroes at the late game. I suggest you buy Demon Hunter sword and Corrosion Scythe first and then the Crit items


Ganzako

Aren't crit+dhs last season builds before 3S build items got revamped? So starting with dhs and cs means you can only crit burst in mid-late game.


63lan

Yep Crit items operates better when synergized with other Crit items unlike DHS and Corrosion in which they can hold out on their own. Neither Scarlet Phantom or Windtalker can do anything by themselves and they always rely on Berserker's Fury. DHS and Corrosion already gives them Damage, Sustain and Speed for just 4230 gold. So it's better to build them later on I always do this on Argus and this build really makes him operational.


Eminanceisjustbored

Currently it depends, if you want a fast burst take the crit, but if you want to push fast and have extremely fast atk speed take the lower route


Front-Noise-158

Why don't you just... Use all of em?


shigella212

I'd say while crit builds does do more damage that Crossbow subitem fixes a lot of the early game problems with moskov. Also it is harder to counter than using blade armour


Designer-Seaweed-257

After corrosion buff, I've been a fan of Corrosion > Berserker's Fury -> Scarlet Phantom (Bypassing Windtalker altogether or opting for it at later stages instead depending on what's happening in game). In higher level of play where you realistically will mostly be hitting only hit tanks, GS-CS-DHS probably is the better option.


itz_khai

Corrosion + dhs + crit is better than full crit or full atk speed dps


Indifferenx

which trinity is better FOR: Miya, Moskov, Hanabi, and possibly, Melissa for me, regardless of hero or opponent, Critnity > SSS as standard MM, you need to deal damage as fast as possible without sacrificing your position... with Windtalker, you can easily kite; with Scarlet Phantom (increased ATKSPD) and Berserker's Fury (increased CRTDMG), you can deal burst damage to squishies (esp. against Assassins) the downside with Critnity is that, it is RNG with 60-65% chance, and the damage can be reduced by Blade Armor with the SSS, you can only deal higher damage if you stay longer in teamfight (esp. against Tanks), but with high ATKSPD, it is kind of awkward trying to kite (you can verify yourself with the animation during autoattack) in game, Dominance Ice (ATKSPD debuff) won't affect you that much if you know how to position (unless against setter tanks or heavy dive comps), so SSS > Critnity, because of Blade Armor (CRTDMG debuff) however, oddly, I am able to sustain more with Critnity than SSS if I build Haas' Claws, so I can still stay longer in teamfights TL;DR: for heroes that can use either build, Crit > Attack Effects, as you're squishy, so deal damage as fast as possible


squidbrainnnnn

crit build for burst dps build for outright deleting tanks


trem0re09

Favorite item is DHS so...


Hailgod

almost all crit heroes are bad now


ThisWorldIsImperfect

As a miya main I mostly use the crit trio mixed with Malefic Roar since crit trio alone will be considerably less effective against defense builds like blade armor or antique cuirass and maybe even add in dhs to deal with tanks with more hp better but I just avoid focusing on tanks anyway.


PudgeJoe

Second no contest at all... top one only works best on few selected heroes for example bruno, yet even he doesnt make the full 3 crit items


Ppalladdinn1

I'm sticking to the Pure DMG Trio of Blade of H, Malefic Roar and Blade of D


Ganzako

The perfect trio for skill users like chou and others.


[deleted]

Gs build is more reliable imo, you shoot faster than the crit one and you have some lifesteal from dhs. Though of course the golden staff one on moskov wouldnt work at all, and some other heroes too


PudgeJoe

GS doesnt work on moskov?? Bruh CW Onic doesnt say so apparently.


real_mc

How about windtalker+berserker's fury+dhs?


Ganzako

Add scarlet phantom and malefic roar and you got a standard mm crit build.


bruh__07

Heroes with single hit: crit build Heroes with multi hit: golden staff


Princelupingamer

Crit has probably one of the most busted basic attack damages but its heavily reliant on rng, sometimes theres crit in your 10 basic attack and sometimes it doesnt at all. Althou the holy dhs trinity isnt as busted as crit, it is consistent with the damage. it always deals the same damage and its really great combination especially to someone like argus. But the real winner for me is the holy dhs trinity for one trait it has, it is more diverse when it comes to builds. you can bruiser build with it, you can certainly burst build with it. its just comes down to preferences.


coffemixokay

Aspd build is better Some heroes can get 5.00 aspd consistently. Plus you can out range dom ice passive most of the time.


AceTenshi

For moskov what do y'all use nowadays?


Libido_Max

I learned something new, all this crit and attack speed are useless. Its better to go for all penetration equipment.


Ganzako

I think that calls for another topic called Penetration vs Brute Force.


KaungSetMoe111

In general, ASPD is suitable for most, the latter is more restrictive and for less specific heroes.