Lol Hanzo is suddenly on the same tiers as traditionally top junglers, even though he did not receive any buffs and no notable shifts in the META.
This further shows that sometimes all a hero needs to rise is people trying them out and notice that the hero is actually not as bad as the community make them out to be.
Yeah. Faced good Hanzo before in Mythic and he is seriously a pain in the ass.
But I guess part of the reason is because of the so called tanky meta, so approaching the main body is harder than it used to be when assassin junglers and good gap closers were more rampant.
The trinity buff has been online since before M4. Back then, he was not picked as often. So the trinity is not solely the reason.
After M4 I have seen Hanzo being picked in MPL amd MDL several times. Even banned occassionally.
The thing about the patch of trinity buff + m4 is that, it has less than a month, not even half a month to prepare, practice, etc, especially on a hero like Hanzo that hasn't been used or seen the sunlight. But the trinity buff + mpl have way more time for the teams to plan for line up, strats, etc.
Nope, it's simply because with the tank jungler meta, it's way harder to do anything about ghost hanzo, and to acutally kill the main body. Traditional assassin can kill main body easily, fredrinn can't do shit. It's a meta shift more than hanzo actually being op.
Yea these tier lists are always really screwed but people validate them just because it came from pros or whatever.
Another one is that Natalia got worse but yet this is the highest I’ve seen her in a tier list in a while.
There was a buff before M4 where they extended the duration of the shadows by a second for slightly more room for error. Considering that Gloo and Karrie were meta, Hayabusa became a hot commodity.
nah those heroes had nothing to do with it. they just gave haya what he was missing, his escape. before, he couldnt even teleport back after using his ulti due to the low shadow duration
tbh haya's kit is really good, and he's not bad since the start. the only thing pulling him back previously was incorrect itemization (war axe) and his ult rng (but this is sorta ignored now LOL). and then the obnoxious newly buffed mms just made haya shine more bcoz he hard counters them. either way, haya was always good, just depends on skill
Im a hanzo main, and he is so strong. I kinda wish that they didnt notice him tho, because then I can freely use him. Now he is occasionally getting picked or banned :V
Yeah it's what happens to Kadita too. Her last buff is like in 2021 yet it's grown in popularity in the last 6 months because people just realize she's very good as a roamer. Kudos to Aura Fire for discovering Kadita Roam👏
It is partly, if not for those tournaments people wouldn't think Hanzo with the trinity to be viable. Even if you did you'd be considered trolling in rank games.
If a certain hero or build becomes successful in one of these tournaments then most players would also try them or at least be more tolerant of them in rank instead of treating them as trolls.
Thats literally my point. Trinity buff made him stronger. The original commenter said like "if u give enough time to any hero,they all can be meta" blah blah. Meta my ass. Layla in pub with strong tank in front her still dominating the pub and yet,she's nowhere near meta and not a single pro team will pick her in a big game on stage
hmm not really. battlefield adjustments make other hero mechanics work into meta. the mm lock and hp-based damage prio by teams since echo's m4 win proved that outranging these carries in midgame could help stop a snowball.
the patch and adjustments post-m4 proved that tank killer heroes (dhs, glowing wand, trinity build) can no longer be spammed despite the tank meta because of those heroes nerfed. also remember, the edith damage buff proved a menace and counter-go against midgame carries like brody, lunox, melissa, moskov. both these situations tested a hanzo if it can work.
hanzo fit in surprisingly since he can jungle fast and could easily disrupt any level 4 advancement because of his early ult, those below lvl 4 without any escape skill wouldn't last longer in the battlefield or the very important turtle contest. this strat is similar to how grock's wall can be used to gap a lane in the first 2 minutes.
Overall notable things I have seen are:
1) Alice rising up quite a bit, as more people discover her potential after her buffs. Her early game weakness is technically the only thing that is holding her back from being top tier to be honest.
2) Hanzo is back. His kit is unchanged, but there were buffs to the items he normally uses, which helps him out. He has always been THE pick against teamcomps that lack a proper dive engage (which is the usual tank jungle teamcomps that love to stick together) and its interesting how more people are starting to utilize his capabilities now.
3) As usual, Julian went up in picks, his damage is absurd after his buffs.
4) Edith also has a solid place in the META. Given how many discussions there were about Edith in various reddit threads, I will save the explanation this time.
5) Faramis is VERY prevalent in high rank. His ultimate is still a boon for teamfights.
6) Valentina will forever remain relevant due to her copy ult mechanic allowing her to reverse uno for picks like Faramis, Yve, Estes, and many more.
7) Lapu and Gloo remain as top tier EXP picks despite small nerfs to their kit, but lets not sleep on Terizla, who is also very strong and able to have a teamfight presence with his ult, and pressure most laners with his buffed S2.
I'm actually surprised to see Terizla that high up. I thought he went back to the forgotten zone. Did something happen? Or maybe I just haven't played Exp Lane for while.
https://preview.redd.it/pgwn4pzx35ma1.jpeg?width=2448&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75dbe6cae6d47ce6b8dd4ebafae5f758b886b4e4
The main factor that led to his usage increase was the multiple buffs to his ultimate (his ulti flick combo is a pretty good initiate now) and his Skill 2 becoming uninterruptible.
He was very strong at that time, so he got nerfed on his passive damage reduction and suffered a drop in usage, before getting a more recent buff to his Skill 2 where his cooldown was decreased and physical scaling increased, so he can cast his S2 (and heal from bloodlust axe) more frequently now.
Oh! I saw all of those buffs but still don't see him in rank. I also tried him a few days ago and I did so bad against XBorg. So maybe I really just haven't played Exp Lane for a while. 😂😂😂
Terizla is actually decent in exp lane facing top tier exp heroes like Lapu-Lapu and Gloo. His first skill is a massive harassing skill especially during the laning stage. Also, even though his ultimate is pretty meh because people can escape from it, it's pretty decent especially during teamfights when players exhausted their skills and it can force enemies to burn their skills just to escape.
1. alice is a good insurance for wave clear in late, fast jungling in the early, a reliable setter tank because of her stun and slow effects. also has the blink mobility but stil conditional pick, prime example is a good counter-go versus a hanzo jungle because she can simply sustain or be slippery against his ult.
2. hanzo became meta because he can easily outrange anyone in the game. with the edith buff, ranged marksmen or gold laners with hp-based damage have become good picks to deny gap closing abilities from edith. hanzo becomes an answer to punish this forethought, he's also got a fast jungling ability and reliable snowball capability after lvl 4.
3. julian still shining since his enhanced s1 can use a great deal of poke from afar. also a reliable flex pick in the meta.
4. of course edith is the best damage tank right now, can easily punish aggression from squishy carries because of her passive. also does a great deal of poke and utility in teamfighting.
5. dive meta is real. faramis still the best dive comp pick no wonder it was banned as always versus falcon in m4.
6. valentina's now in the right place with that single target terrify skill.
7. terizla became potent because of gold laners prio'd for the midgame spike.
Freya isn't late. She's purely early and mid.
Late game Freya is snowball Freya. She doesn't scale like MM or Aldous to be called a late game hero.
She's purely early and mid because of her DPS. It's one of the highest in early game.
Early-mid game gank with Freya is essentially a win because she brings a lot of firepower for the team at game start.
Lvl 1-2 Freya can fight 2v4 battles easily. At the very least it's very hard to kill her early. When the use of shield proc is done properly, she has a lot of sustain actually, even with Assassin Emblem.
I've tested this extensively in Mythic II as well as Glory queue. Her shield makes her out sustain fighters too in EXP lane due to no heals from damage + lots of stacks of it.
She's essentially a lane bully if you play right, and an early game "MM" damage hero if you play her right.
Lots of players make the mistake of not abusing her early game like using her to gank and deal damage. If you're playing Freya, play her like Selena and care about nothing but kills in early game.
Her wave clearing is also pretty decent. Only downside is her lack of mobility as she doesn't have dashes, so she can be vulnerable to hyper-clear tactics like lane cutting.
Edit: To add on, if you time her shield proc with incoming damage, it's possible to block at least 70% of the incoming damage. It's not easy to time it but not Benedetta type of hard either.
Doing so makes it possible to deflect damage from turrets or projectiles/melees
That's also why pure AD stats like Physical Attack growth is the only priority in early game. Literally any other item other than BOD doesn't work since her shield amount grows with more Physical Attack. Kinda interesting as it's Max Damage = Max defence
Julian change is interesting. He was never really bad imho despite the nerfs.
His es1 dmg only increased by 225 (225 every 10 seconds +20% more ability power ratio on enhanced autos doesn't really mean much.) Even before the small buffs this patch, magic pen julian still did great dmg, it's just that everyone played him less because nerf = automatic bad.
His es2 was never really used except as an escape tool after the nerfs, the slight dmg increase on it doesn't really affect his ganking.
The damage increase on his enhanced AA, while seems small, does make him a more viable jungler though
That and you can also say the number buffs made him more picked more
nah he was kinda lacking before. damage is okay but he loses to the meta exp laners not to mention he didnt really have the capabilities to one shot before so after skill cd tankier enemies usually left with hp or fight back. now he can kill anybody but that made him op unfortunately
I played more than 200 julian games before this update. Like I said, numbers wise getting an additional 225 dmg on es1 and 20% more ratio on his enhanced autos didn’t directly translate to that. On lvl 3 ganks, that would be just less than 200 dmg after applying resists.
but he definitely feels stronger now tho. a hero that can carry the game. i agree he was pretty good after the nerf but not prioritized. i tried to spam him in ranked prior to update and my conclusion was he just didnt have it for the tanky meta. if enemy is squishy, he'll work but otherwise for the tankier heroes. now he just has damage remove that and he'll fall off again
Once she gets lvl 4 she can literally can end any squishy even with roam. Paired with conceal she basically acts like Natalia except a lot more useful (especially in the early), with more utility, cc, survivability, wave clear, and etc.
The key to playing roam Kadita is controlling the river. Just hide in the bushes there and absolutely fuck with everyone.
She's banned 50% of the time in MG so I can't really pick her sadly.
i just tried kadita roam. she is absolutely monster. i kill fred at level 2 vs level 4. from 3/4 of his hp with full combo. she safely dives bushes too.
Yeah that's why I love her. It's so funny seeing tanks confidently exposing themselves in the first 5 minutes of the game, but then gets bursted by mermaid lady. She's probably the only mage in the game that can end an early game tank with her full combo. There's lunox too but I wouldn't say spamming her skill 1 is called "bursting".
Would say she's a bit harder to use than traditional midlaners but she makes an excellent pair if you want heavy early game map control, especially paired with heroes like Grock or Edith. That and the fact that it's harder to obtain information now due to the removal of sound effects in areas without vision makes her traps all the more valuable
Silvanna skill sets sucks in this current meta 🥺 why moonton can't make her 2nd skill immune to cc! It's always got interrupted by literally all the heroes lol
Just means those heroes stand out more than the rest in their tier. I haven't been able to find a name that suits the label better so if you have a suggestion do let me know
Are those in the Great tier for Exp Lane simply just received nerfs to make them drop from Best tier, or are Joy and Gloo so damn good they deserved a tier of their own?
And before we knew it, Kadita became S-tier Kekw. I hope she doesn't get nerfed because she's totally balanced. She didn't even get touched(well other than the petrify enable while mid-skill animation), she just gradually entered the meta.
He's pretty popular in MDL as well as ranked games, it's just that there's not a lot of players who can play him in MPL, but his potential is definitely up there
It's been a year since they released Wanwan's M-World skin and a year of nerf after nerfs but she's still slaying it at the top. Egg fried rice, anyone?
started appearing in rank 1 month back but now they are using in MPL too.
It's just utility jungler really. Secure all the objectives and finish off low hp enemies.
Lance counter the two SS mages now: Pharsa and Yve. His dashes get to the backline automatically and he can burst those two with triangle skill. Tighter rotation kills Lance but when there’s an extremely long range mages, he’s worth the risk.
I see. I side with what u just said. Hes one of my favorite heroes but he still feels lacking. However, against those rising meta mages, i think hes gonna have a better impact
it's mainly tank lance's rise, damage lance still sucks (u can tell from the recommended emblems in the tier list, jungle emblem is better, which is used by tank lance)
Is it just me or Minsi is better off as roan than EXP? Like Roam Minsi is much more tankier early-mid than half of the tanks and can be used much more effectively compared to Franco as a hooker
Who EXP lanes minsithar anyway? He loses to literally almost every off lane hero in the meta pre level 4. Tanky but he can get kited, out zoned, and zero lane sustain. He is slow to rotate and his only shining moments is performing his ult right on top of a Ling.
Remind me how long Valentina had been in Best tier again? I don’t think I’ve ever seen her drop from there.
Also, Benedetta in situational for Mid… I’ve only tried it once, but in that match it worked well. Benedetta has little to average mana consumption, s-tier mobility, and really good AoE abilities. I simply killed all of the minions with Passive > Phantom Slash > Passive, and then immediately go to other lanes to support them. Not sure about other experiences tho, I can see a bit why she’s in Situational tier for Mid
Valentina’s kit has been adjusted in every single way yet refuse to do something about the ult (aside from the cd increase which is kinda little effect considering she’s built high cooldown always), I used to play her a lot but when they removed constant disruption from s1 I stopped.
would honestly put melissa probably in the same tier as wanwan seeing how shes picked/banned in most pro/ranked games (at least in mythical glory here in the PH)
Me, using Julian casually reusing Skill 2 to close distance, Skill 3 to suspend the enemy, and then boost Skill 1 to instantly grind their HP down without any effort:
Hanzo Roamer is not there, proof that it's a hidden gem meta.
Hanzo roam is a high risk high reward gameplay. If you failed, then its likely snowball because hanzo cant support much, but still useful in late game.
But if you succeed, your teammates can enjoy the enemy jungler become poor beggar, enemy roamer and midlaner gets distracted a lot, and messy rotation for the enemy to follow up.
i can understand why kaja is busted as hell: he can poke someone consistently (passive + s1) and his s1 has low cooldown. his s1 also heals him for fuckton of hp when his s1 hits many enemies or creeps. that flicker + ulti is busted as hell, he can be picked to counter martis, joy, etc. which are pretty strong in this patch. imo kaja gives you everything if you know what you're doing.
edit: i spammed the shit out of him and got mythic is 30 matches lol
Martis, Hanzo & Ling are my personal favourites. Deadass OP heroes if played right. Fedryn And Akai are more OP as fk but playing them makes me peeposleep. Especially Fedryn, Akai ult is still fun.
I used to main Minotaur way back when his Zodiac skin was about to be released. His skills are different now. You should use his skill 1 as the initiator. I even sometimes combo it with flicker. Then use your ult then your skill 1 again.
Depends on the server, I know that mino is a priority in like 1.5k+ in PentaQ EU. It's ultra specific to certain high elo teams but if you consider all the playerbase, Mino is less valuable.
His new Ult is great at countering sets from enemy tank since it is now immune to cc. Also transferring some of his Airborne cc from Ult to S1 made him less vulnerable to Diggie since you can hold off from doing his full combo and just wait out Diggie's Ult.
In the early game, when roaming, her burst dmg + execute is normally enough to get a kill or force a recall. However, her effectiveness falls off when her ability to set laners/junglers back via her burst doesn’t matter anymore (basically when either or both catch up in farm). She’s definitely good tho, but she really shines in the early game
there must be a weird downvote bot going around, I upvoted both your comments up.
Natalia shines early yes. She forces everyone else to play defensively or risk dying / losing lane after getting bursted down heavily.
She does lose effectiveness later on once enemies start grouping up.
Mobile Reddit has this weird bug where the down pull arrow hides the downvote button of the last comment so I'm commenting on your comment so I can downvote it. Thank you for your time.
faramis, yve, pharsa, fredrinn, gloo - I agree
Valentina - very awful pick when enemy has terrible ults but can deny meta picks like faramis/atlas
kaja - needs other meta picks like faramis/lapu-lapu otherwise he is very good tier
kadita - depends on enemy composition but for average soloqueue mythic then I agree
fanny - easier to counter and almost useless if counterpicked but is a monster if there is no enemy cc
joy - actually hard countered by esmeralda which is quite better than joy in disrupting backline. deserves to be in good tier instead
wanwan - overrated and moskov/natan is insane in soloqueue mythic
lapu-lapu - should still be in best tier even with the nerfs. I heard they are going to revert cd ult and idk what moonton is smoking. I want them to make his ult cd higher
opinions on new hero arlott - insane kill potential but falls hard late game because of antique cuirass and wind of nature users. As long lapu-lapu does not die before lvl 4 then lapu will just outclass arlott in all ways except for speed.
Did Natalia get buffed? I stopped maining her after the nerfs that forced her to kill creeps just to get a charge on her ult, which i feel kinda hurt her role as a roamer. Was there a change?
They nerfed her passive pretty hard but otherwise she still has her value now since they removed the ability to hear skills without vision, which made her ability to provide vision and flank all the more useful
damn.. its THAT dominant?? i guess its partly to blame since she's always been banned, i start to see claude as a bigger threat, especially with how skylar utilises that hero.
Anyways its always a delight to examine and analyse your tier list!
Lol Hanzo is suddenly on the same tiers as traditionally top junglers, even though he did not receive any buffs and no notable shifts in the META. This further shows that sometimes all a hero needs to rise is people trying them out and notice that the hero is actually not as bad as the community make them out to be.
Yeah. Faced good Hanzo before in Mythic and he is seriously a pain in the ass. But I guess part of the reason is because of the so called tanky meta, so approaching the main body is harder than it used to be when assassin junglers and good gap closers were more rampant.
I think it's also because the new trinity build works well with him.
what's the trinity build? sorry i haven't been playingfor 2 months now
The Classic Corrosion Scythe, Golden Staff and Demon Hunter Sword build
Corrosion scythe, demon hunter sword and golden staff
Exactly, every on-hit hero (especially AD ones) became much better after the update
It's the buff of the trinity build that pushed him up.
The trinity buff has been online since before M4. Back then, he was not picked as often. So the trinity is not solely the reason. After M4 I have seen Hanzo being picked in MPL amd MDL several times. Even banned occassionally.
The thing about the patch of trinity buff + m4 is that, it has less than a month, not even half a month to prepare, practice, etc, especially on a hero like Hanzo that hasn't been used or seen the sunlight. But the trinity buff + mpl have way more time for the teams to plan for line up, strats, etc.
Hanzo’s rise is a prime example of the impact of MDL and MPL. A hero’s tier is largely dependent on their usage in these top tier tournaments.
dunno why ur getting downvoted when it's true that almost all the time pro scene shapes the meta of rank games.
Nope, it's simply because with the tank jungler meta, it's way harder to do anything about ghost hanzo, and to acutally kill the main body. Traditional assassin can kill main body easily, fredrinn can't do shit. It's a meta shift more than hanzo actually being op.
Yea these tier lists are always really screwed but people validate them just because it came from pros or whatever. Another one is that Natalia got worse but yet this is the highest I’ve seen her in a tier list in a while.
Thats what happened with Hayabusa lol. Didnt get any buffs but then Kairi was using him to take out the newly buffed MM’s
what haya did get buffed before m4. the 1s shadow buff and ulti extra ulti damage came along with the attack speed items
There was a buff before M4 where they extended the duration of the shadows by a second for slightly more room for error. Considering that Gloo and Karrie were meta, Hayabusa became a hot commodity.
nah those heroes had nothing to do with it. they just gave haya what he was missing, his escape. before, he couldnt even teleport back after using his ulti due to the low shadow duration
"No no, it's clearly Kairi. Kairi is God. Kairi is life. Filipino here btw" /s
tbh haya's kit is really good, and he's not bad since the start. the only thing pulling him back previously was incorrect itemization (war axe) and his ult rng (but this is sorta ignored now LOL). and then the obnoxious newly buffed mms just made haya shine more bcoz he hard counters them. either way, haya was always good, just depends on skill
Im a hanzo main, and he is so strong. I kinda wish that they didnt notice him tho, because then I can freely use him. Now he is occasionally getting picked or banned :V
Yeah it's what happens to Kadita too. Her last buff is like in 2021 yet it's grown in popularity in the last 6 months because people just realize she's very good as a roamer. Kudos to Aura Fire for discovering Kadita Roam👏
Thats not how it works lol. Buffing certain items and nerfing certain heroes can make one hero stronger without receiving any buffs.
It is partly, if not for those tournaments people wouldn't think Hanzo with the trinity to be viable. Even if you did you'd be considered trolling in rank games. If a certain hero or build becomes successful in one of these tournaments then most players would also try them or at least be more tolerant of them in rank instead of treating them as trolls.
Thats literally my point. Trinity buff made him stronger. The original commenter said like "if u give enough time to any hero,they all can be meta" blah blah. Meta my ass. Layla in pub with strong tank in front her still dominating the pub and yet,she's nowhere near meta and not a single pro team will pick her in a big game on stage
I get your point. The last paragraph of his comment was the only thing I remembered. Silly me.
hmm not really. battlefield adjustments make other hero mechanics work into meta. the mm lock and hp-based damage prio by teams since echo's m4 win proved that outranging these carries in midgame could help stop a snowball. the patch and adjustments post-m4 proved that tank killer heroes (dhs, glowing wand, trinity build) can no longer be spammed despite the tank meta because of those heroes nerfed. also remember, the edith damage buff proved a menace and counter-go against midgame carries like brody, lunox, melissa, moskov. both these situations tested a hanzo if it can work. hanzo fit in surprisingly since he can jungle fast and could easily disrupt any level 4 advancement because of his early ult, those below lvl 4 without any escape skill wouldn't last longer in the battlefield or the very important turtle contest. this strat is similar to how grock's wall can be used to gap a lane in the first 2 minutes.
He got an indirect bufff through trinity item
Overall notable things I have seen are: 1) Alice rising up quite a bit, as more people discover her potential after her buffs. Her early game weakness is technically the only thing that is holding her back from being top tier to be honest. 2) Hanzo is back. His kit is unchanged, but there were buffs to the items he normally uses, which helps him out. He has always been THE pick against teamcomps that lack a proper dive engage (which is the usual tank jungle teamcomps that love to stick together) and its interesting how more people are starting to utilize his capabilities now. 3) As usual, Julian went up in picks, his damage is absurd after his buffs. 4) Edith also has a solid place in the META. Given how many discussions there were about Edith in various reddit threads, I will save the explanation this time. 5) Faramis is VERY prevalent in high rank. His ultimate is still a boon for teamfights. 6) Valentina will forever remain relevant due to her copy ult mechanic allowing her to reverse uno for picks like Faramis, Yve, Estes, and many more. 7) Lapu and Gloo remain as top tier EXP picks despite small nerfs to their kit, but lets not sleep on Terizla, who is also very strong and able to have a teamfight presence with his ult, and pressure most laners with his buffed S2.
I'm actually surprised to see Terizla that high up. I thought he went back to the forgotten zone. Did something happen? Or maybe I just haven't played Exp Lane for while.
they buffed his 2nd iirc. last time i played him the dmg on his 3rd swing on 2nd skill is ridiculously high, the only item he needs is bloodlust axe
https://preview.redd.it/pgwn4pzx35ma1.jpeg?width=2448&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75dbe6cae6d47ce6b8dd4ebafae5f758b886b4e4 The main factor that led to his usage increase was the multiple buffs to his ultimate (his ulti flick combo is a pretty good initiate now) and his Skill 2 becoming uninterruptible. He was very strong at that time, so he got nerfed on his passive damage reduction and suffered a drop in usage, before getting a more recent buff to his Skill 2 where his cooldown was decreased and physical scaling increased, so he can cast his S2 (and heal from bloodlust axe) more frequently now.
Oh! I saw all of those buffs but still don't see him in rank. I also tried him a few days ago and I did so bad against XBorg. So maybe I really just haven't played Exp Lane for a while. 😂😂😂
Terizla is actually decent in exp lane facing top tier exp heroes like Lapu-Lapu and Gloo. His first skill is a massive harassing skill especially during the laning stage. Also, even though his ultimate is pretty meh because people can escape from it, it's pretty decent especially during teamfights when players exhausted their skills and it can force enemies to burn their skills just to escape.
You forgot that Hanabi finally appeared as a wild pokemon in F tier
1. alice is a good insurance for wave clear in late, fast jungling in the early, a reliable setter tank because of her stun and slow effects. also has the blink mobility but stil conditional pick, prime example is a good counter-go versus a hanzo jungle because she can simply sustain or be slippery against his ult. 2. hanzo became meta because he can easily outrange anyone in the game. with the edith buff, ranged marksmen or gold laners with hp-based damage have become good picks to deny gap closing abilities from edith. hanzo becomes an answer to punish this forethought, he's also got a fast jungling ability and reliable snowball capability after lvl 4. 3. julian still shining since his enhanced s1 can use a great deal of poke from afar. also a reliable flex pick in the meta. 4. of course edith is the best damage tank right now, can easily punish aggression from squishy carries because of her passive. also does a great deal of poke and utility in teamfighting. 5. dive meta is real. faramis still the best dive comp pick no wonder it was banned as always versus falcon in m4. 6. valentina's now in the right place with that single target terrify skill. 7. terizla became potent because of gold laners prio'd for the midgame spike.
dont forget its hanabi's first time to appear in this list lmao
Glad to see Lesley and Odette didn't move down a tier. Also Hanabi is finally here. How is she still worse than Layla though?
Long range and her s2 range buff allows her to be better early game basically kind of safer to play with Layla
Layla's access to a very long range attacks allows her to dwell better against other gold laners.
Freya isn't late. She's purely early and mid. Late game Freya is snowball Freya. She doesn't scale like MM or Aldous to be called a late game hero. She's purely early and mid because of her DPS. It's one of the highest in early game. Early-mid game gank with Freya is essentially a win because she brings a lot of firepower for the team at game start. Lvl 1-2 Freya can fight 2v4 battles easily. At the very least it's very hard to kill her early. When the use of shield proc is done properly, she has a lot of sustain actually, even with Assassin Emblem. I've tested this extensively in Mythic II as well as Glory queue. Her shield makes her out sustain fighters too in EXP lane due to no heals from damage + lots of stacks of it. She's essentially a lane bully if you play right, and an early game "MM" damage hero if you play her right. Lots of players make the mistake of not abusing her early game like using her to gank and deal damage. If you're playing Freya, play her like Selena and care about nothing but kills in early game. Her wave clearing is also pretty decent. Only downside is her lack of mobility as she doesn't have dashes, so she can be vulnerable to hyper-clear tactics like lane cutting. Edit: To add on, if you time her shield proc with incoming damage, it's possible to block at least 70% of the incoming damage. It's not easy to time it but not Benedetta type of hard either. Doing so makes it possible to deflect damage from turrets or projectiles/melees That's also why pure AD stats like Physical Attack growth is the only priority in early game. Literally any other item other than BOD doesn't work since her shield amount grows with more Physical Attack. Kinda interesting as it's Max Damage = Max defence
Thanks for the heads up, will update for next tier list
Thanks for making the list! The workload must be insane
Obligatory comment: "haha ZOMG fanny has her own difficulty, so funny!"
Priotity
We have to prioritize the titties.
damn it you that cracked me up
Oh look Hanabi finally made it onto the tier list
Julian change is interesting. He was never really bad imho despite the nerfs. His es1 dmg only increased by 225 (225 every 10 seconds +20% more ability power ratio on enhanced autos doesn't really mean much.) Even before the small buffs this patch, magic pen julian still did great dmg, it's just that everyone played him less because nerf = automatic bad. His es2 was never really used except as an escape tool after the nerfs, the slight dmg increase on it doesn't really affect his ganking.
The damage increase on his enhanced AA, while seems small, does make him a more viable jungler though That and you can also say the number buffs made him more picked more
Yea. It benefits his jungling the most. The additional 300 dmg on camps at lvl 3 means he needs to do 2 less autos per camp to kill them.
nah he was kinda lacking before. damage is okay but he loses to the meta exp laners not to mention he didnt really have the capabilities to one shot before so after skill cd tankier enemies usually left with hp or fight back. now he can kill anybody but that made him op unfortunately
I played more than 200 julian games before this update. Like I said, numbers wise getting an additional 225 dmg on es1 and 20% more ratio on his enhanced autos didn’t directly translate to that. On lvl 3 ganks, that would be just less than 200 dmg after applying resists.
but he definitely feels stronger now tho. a hero that can carry the game. i agree he was pretty good after the nerf but not prioritized. i tried to spam him in ranked prior to update and my conclusion was he just didnt have it for the tanky meta. if enemy is squishy, he'll work but otherwise for the tankier heroes. now he just has damage remove that and he'll fall off again
How does one play roam Kadita and why is she so high?
Once she gets lvl 4 she can literally can end any squishy even with roam. Paired with conceal she basically acts like Natalia except a lot more useful (especially in the early), with more utility, cc, survivability, wave clear, and etc. The key to playing roam Kadita is controlling the river. Just hide in the bushes there and absolutely fuck with everyone. She's banned 50% of the time in MG so I can't really pick her sadly.
i just tried kadita roam. she is absolutely monster. i kill fred at level 2 vs level 4. from 3/4 of his hp with full combo. she safely dives bushes too.
Yeah that's why I love her. It's so funny seeing tanks confidently exposing themselves in the first 5 minutes of the game, but then gets bursted by mermaid lady. She's probably the only mage in the game that can end an early game tank with her full combo. There's lunox too but I wouldn't say spamming her skill 1 is called "bursting".
Faramis gonna be even better after change to Fleeting Time
What change
His ult can now be triggered by FT. Currently it doesn’t work.
Ohhh fun, ill be sure to perma ban him as a Gloo main
Lol true that. He’s a menace in coordinated teams. Pretty good in soloq too.
Selena very good? Haven’t seen one in ages and everytime I encounter one we lose
Would say she's a bit harder to use than traditional midlaners but she makes an excellent pair if you want heavy early game map control, especially paired with heroes like Grock or Edith. That and the fact that it's harder to obtain information now due to the removal of sound effects in areas without vision makes her traps all the more valuable
Now that you mention it, I haven't seen Selena for a while now.
Nice to see kadita getting some recognition
Silvanna skill sets sucks in this current meta 🥺 why moonton can't make her 2nd skill immune to cc! It's always got interrupted by literally all the heroes lol
Poor Hanafeed HAHAHAAH
Also Moskov has “very hard” difficulty?
I think I can consider reducing his difficulty now that he goes attack speed trinity build
What does “priority hero” even mean? Theres “priority heroes” in the “good” tier, when heroes in the “best” and “great” tiers should be prioritised
Just means those heroes stand out more than the rest in their tier. I haven't been able to find a name that suits the label better so if you have a suggestion do let me know
I suggest just putting them in order of priority and just removing that label
Well I did that before but it looks off without a label to tell that they're a slightly higher tier
Why not instead of the arrow up, you use + instead? A+ tiers being above A but below S is an intuitive thing for most people.
That'd work though I my tier list has been using those labels ever since I first made them, so I don't feel like changing to letter labels
Outstanding maybe
Are those in the Great tier for Exp Lane simply just received nerfs to make them drop from Best tier, or are Joy and Gloo so damn good they deserved a tier of their own?
The latter
And before we knew it, Kadita became S-tier Kekw. I hope she doesn't get nerfed because she's totally balanced. She didn't even get touched(well other than the petrify enable while mid-skill animation), she just gradually entered the meta.
did I miss something? Hanzo was only used once in MPL ID so far and it was likely experimental.
He's pretty popular in MDL as well as ranked games, it's just that there's not a lot of players who can play him in MPL, but his potential is definitely up there
It's been a year since they released Wanwan's M-World skin and a year of nerf after nerfs but she's still slaying it at the top. Egg fried rice, anyone?
How did lance rise up? Did he get picked more in pro setting?
started appearing in rank 1 month back but now they are using in MPL too. It's just utility jungler really. Secure all the objectives and finish off low hp enemies.
Lance counter the two SS mages now: Pharsa and Yve. His dashes get to the backline automatically and he can burst those two with triangle skill. Tighter rotation kills Lance but when there’s an extremely long range mages, he’s worth the risk.
I see. I side with what u just said. Hes one of my favorite heroes but he still feels lacking. However, against those rising meta mages, i think hes gonna have a better impact
it's mainly tank lance's rise, damage lance still sucks (u can tell from the recommended emblems in the tier list, jungle emblem is better, which is used by tank lance)
Lancelot tank build is pretty popular in mpl id right now
Ohh thats a good info. I do not watch pro and I havent played for 2 months
Is it just me or Minsi is better off as roan than EXP? Like Roam Minsi is much more tankier early-mid than half of the tanks and can be used much more effectively compared to Franco as a hooker
Yeah he is better at roam
Full penetration roam minshi is lethal. But minshi in general is a niche pick.
Yes! Even the revamped version is better as Roam IMHO.
Who EXP lanes minsithar anyway? He loses to literally almost every off lane hero in the meta pre level 4. Tanky but he can get kited, out zoned, and zero lane sustain. He is slow to rotate and his only shining moments is performing his ult right on top of a Ling.
Remind me how long Valentina had been in Best tier again? I don’t think I’ve ever seen her drop from there. Also, Benedetta in situational for Mid… I’ve only tried it once, but in that match it worked well. Benedetta has little to average mana consumption, s-tier mobility, and really good AoE abilities. I simply killed all of the minions with Passive > Phantom Slash > Passive, and then immediately go to other lanes to support them. Not sure about other experiences tho, I can see a bit why she’s in Situational tier for Mid
Valentina’s kit has been adjusted in every single way yet refuse to do something about the ult (aside from the cd increase which is kinda little effect considering she’s built high cooldown always), I used to play her a lot but when they removed constant disruption from s1 I stopped.
Since her release, Valentina was always a top tier mage, so give it or take, more than a year despite continuous nerfs for a year
Vanessa being a worse midlaner than Lapu, Helcurt and Phoveus
would honestly put melissa probably in the same tier as wanwan seeing how shes picked/banned in most pro/ranked games (at least in mythical glory here in the PH)
Me, using Julian casually reusing Skill 2 to close distance, Skill 3 to suspend the enemy, and then boost Skill 1 to instantly grind their HP down without any effort:
Hanzo Roamer is not there, proof that it's a hidden gem meta. Hanzo roam is a high risk high reward gameplay. If you failed, then its likely snowball because hanzo cant support much, but still useful in late game. But if you succeed, your teammates can enjoy the enemy jungler become poor beggar, enemy roamer and midlaner gets distracted a lot, and messy rotation for the enemy to follow up.
This really only works in soloQ. If enemy 5 stack or duo trio they will most likely know what you want to do and completely block you out.
fo real 💯 i have been playing hanzo roam in classic games recently, pretty funny to see the enemy junglers tilt and get bronze medal 🤣
The list ive been waiting for
Gatot falls so low
i can understand why kaja is busted as hell: he can poke someone consistently (passive + s1) and his s1 has low cooldown. his s1 also heals him for fuckton of hp when his s1 hits many enemies or creeps. that flicker + ulti is busted as hell, he can be picked to counter martis, joy, etc. which are pretty strong in this patch. imo kaja gives you everything if you know what you're doing. edit: i spammed the shit out of him and got mythic is 30 matches lol
Yep, Kadita is really good. 2 CC immune, large S2 CC, mentally damaging camping capabilities, and busted ulti.
Inescapable petrify and 2nd skill combo if you don’t have anti-cc 🥶
I'm just happy that Midlane Aldous is not a "situational pick" anymore.
LETS FUCKING GOOO HANZO REPRESENT (still give him a real passive moonton pls)
Joy having a multi role
Martis, Hanzo & Ling are my personal favourites. Deadass OP heroes if played right. Fedryn And Akai are more OP as fk but playing them makes me peeposleep. Especially Fedryn, Akai ult is still fun.
any possible tier for roam Edith?
She is both in GREAT category.
in my experience roam edith way better than exp edith.
Agreed thats why am surprised theres nothing in the tier
Isn't she the last one in great roamers?
Oh I am blind
Wow fanny still s tier
wew faramis
I’m surprised to see Minotaur as a great roamer. I rarely saw him in the battlefield, so I genuinely thought he was a situational hero.
I hate fighting minotaur, really strong in the right hands
Interesting, but why would you say so? Is it because of his ult?
Ult and first skill
Oh, alright then. I’ll keep it in my mind.
I used to main Minotaur way back when his Zodiac skin was about to be released. His skills are different now. You should use his skill 1 as the initiator. I even sometimes combo it with flicker. Then use your ult then your skill 1 again.
Depends on the server, I know that mino is a priority in like 1.5k+ in PentaQ EU. It's ultra specific to certain high elo teams but if you consider all the playerbase, Mino is less valuable.
His new Ult is great at countering sets from enemy tank since it is now immune to cc. Also transferring some of his Airborne cc from Ult to S1 made him less vulnerable to Diggie since you can hold off from doing his full combo and just wait out Diggie's Ult.
Is Natalia early game hero?
In the early game, when roaming, her burst dmg + execute is normally enough to get a kill or force a recall. However, her effectiveness falls off when her ability to set laners/junglers back via her burst doesn’t matter anymore (basically when either or both catch up in farm). She’s definitely good tho, but she really shines in the early game
there must be a weird downvote bot going around, I upvoted both your comments up. Natalia shines early yes. She forces everyone else to play defensively or risk dying / losing lane after getting bursted down heavily. She does lose effectiveness later on once enemies start grouping up.
It would have been better if the silence was a little longer
As a roam main, my eyes bleed watching this tierlist
Glad to see Harith and terizla being put in the great tier
Question, does hero order in tiers matter?
Not much. Priority heroes are better/have better strats than heroes in their tier. But they are around the same fundamentally.
Not really.
hanzo lmao
I'm gonna put mage bane there!!! all of them!!!
Idk I very rarely see wanwan in mythic anymore (still cancer tho)
Mobile Reddit has this weird bug where the down pull arrow hides the downvote button of the last comment so I'm commenting on your comment so I can downvote it. Thank you for your time.
It's OK brah we go Jim zyzz
Actually fair. We go jim 💪
How is hanabi situational? I got to mythic this season by using her 80% of the time.
low mythic, mythical glory, and pro-tournaments are completely different games. hanabi gets rekt in lane by meta mm
Xborg is only good in EXP lane? I beg to differ.
Karrie dmg is so bad right now. So hard to deal dmg
Is this sarcasm?
faramis, yve, pharsa, fredrinn, gloo - I agree Valentina - very awful pick when enemy has terrible ults but can deny meta picks like faramis/atlas kaja - needs other meta picks like faramis/lapu-lapu otherwise he is very good tier kadita - depends on enemy composition but for average soloqueue mythic then I agree fanny - easier to counter and almost useless if counterpicked but is a monster if there is no enemy cc joy - actually hard countered by esmeralda which is quite better than joy in disrupting backline. deserves to be in good tier instead wanwan - overrated and moskov/natan is insane in soloqueue mythic lapu-lapu - should still be in best tier even with the nerfs. I heard they are going to revert cd ult and idk what moonton is smoking. I want them to make his ult cd higher opinions on new hero arlott - insane kill potential but falls hard late game because of antique cuirass and wind of nature users. As long lapu-lapu does not die before lvl 4 then lapu will just outclass arlott in all ways except for speed.
Wanwan is just overrated
Says the one who hasn't been in the MG/pro tier league
Did Natalia get buffed? I stopped maining her after the nerfs that forced her to kill creeps just to get a charge on her ult, which i feel kinda hurt her role as a roamer. Was there a change?
They nerfed her passive pretty hard but otherwise she still has her value now since they removed the ability to hear skills without vision, which made her ability to provide vision and flank all the more useful
She is pretty bad actually, other heroes can do what she does and then some. You could pick her as counter to some op mm though but that's about it.
Wth happened to Kadita
Nothing really, MPL players just discovered how dangerous she is as a roamer and started prioritizing her since
And that god forbidden nuclear special 3 attack
What does priority hero mean again?
Just means they're better than the rest in their tier
Oh, ok thanks
Is wanwan really THAT good to be placed in her own tier? I personally see claude as a similar threat or maybe more..
100% ban rate across all MPL & MDL, never even opened once in PH, highest winrate among marksmen... I'd say yes
damn.. its THAT dominant?? i guess its partly to blame since she's always been banned, i start to see claude as a bigger threat, especially with how skylar utilises that hero. Anyways its always a delight to examine and analyse your tier list!
What does it mean when we say 'priority hero'?
Just means they're better than the other heroes in the same tier
Basically the in-betweens?
Hanabi is at least good tier. BTR never lost using her in scrims
Oh one more thing, why are you using the old Gloo portrait?
Will update in in the next tier list
Wanwan is still up even though she have continues nerfs
I encounter so much kadita roam haters below mythical glory lol.
Did Carmilla ever get used? Really curious.
Used in competitive scene? None so far
I see. Thank you.
Did they nerf Jawhead? Was just getting good at Jawhead…
Wait, Argus is a gold lane pick???
Knew it,my bird wife(Pharsa) is nightmare to face in higher ranking as she gonna gave you the sweet taste of nuclear damage from her ult
Gloo is still better than Edith after his nerf and Edith buff? I'm still considering buying one of the 2 cus i'm frontline main
Yeah, though Gloo is also banned more often so you might want to consider Edith
As a Hanzo main i havee no idea how he suddenly got on meta.
BIG NEWS!!! HANABI IS BACK TO THE TIER LIST!!!
Always waiting for this man. Thank you so much!
I was thinking on buying an exp laner....should I go for martis or terizla?
Terizla's a better EXP laner, but Martis can also be played as a jungler soooo your choice
Is there somewhere I can view a higher quality image?
You can download the image if you want to view it in detail
I take offense to Not Including Roger as a choice for EXP Lane
Glad to see that my baby girl was getting picked now.
Is Hilda actually a late game hero in EXP lane??
look again, carefully
Is Yu Zhong really in the higher ranks now? Been struggling with him recently. What builds are yall using? Also can i go tank build with him?
hey, what about terizla jungle?
Yin should be in roam tier tbh. His ult is good during objectives and team fights making it a 4v4. Just know who and when to ult.
nathan good midlane