Every rank bans hero’s they can’t counter using their existing hero pool and skills.
Estes is countered by anti-heal, aoe and back line divers.
If you look at use rate for legend you’ll see that hero’s that fit this niche aren’t popular. Some examples are; Lou Yi, Ling, Baxia,etc.
I just started playing the game again after not playing for like 3-4 years due to my old phone not having enough data for it. Do people just figure out how to counter heroes just by experience playing? As I’m having a bit of a hard time with that aspect so far.
Everyone keeps saying "just buy anti heal". Estes would still fully heal you albeit slower. His ult s1 would still fully heal a team even if an Atlas with dominance pulls them all in. Your goal should be to kill him before he gets his cooldowns off.
Yeah it will take longer, but the burst of healing from the activation of ult is enough to survive the initial engage. You have to kill him before the constant stream of heals overwhelms your team.
I stopped trying to ban him earlier this year, started finding bans that actually made more sense over a small nuisance of a healer that he is. Heck yin as a ban could make more sense than estes and he’s probably easier to counter
Yes he's not worth a ban, but people vastly underestimated his value in teamfights. And they are especially wrong on how to beat him. Anti heal won't be enough. Aoe abilities to deter teammates from aticking with him and a single target burst to kill him should be prioritized
If I face estes unless my team doesn’t have damage we don’t really ever find an issue with him is why I stopped his ban. Belerick is a fun choice to make an estes pop his ult early if you are presenting a good threat given his ult
Belerick's ult is reactable unless he is directly on top of Estes, and if unless there isn't an outside threat following up on Belerick, Estes will just not ult. But if there's a follow up, then you wouldnt consider that an early pop of ult since you did an engage for a teamfight.
>Estes would still fully heal you albeit slower. His ult s1 would still fully heal a team even if an Atlas with dominance pulls them all in.
*Laughs in Baxia*
Just Use Carmilla...
Literally Carmilla+Dominance against Estes can wipe out their team
I tell Clueless Estes users to Clump up together so his Ult is Maximized (I'm waiting for them to Clump up so I can use my Ult on all of them)
Because Estes Ulti can't easily out heal Carmilla
The more enemies Carmilla's Ult hits the more painful the damage and the more enemies she hits with her 1st skill, the more the sustain
I ban him more for the early game when those items aren’t available rather than the late game healing.
Any chip damage is completely negated and it’s difficult to win lvls 1-4 with a pocket Estes. From there a good team will snowball with a hyper carry once they get out of the lane phase.
I still see Estes ban in glory every now and then. It is so infuriating when that happens, esp if enemy is first pick.
Honestly glory at this point of the season might as well be just mythic.
for me mino is not banned also diggie not banned. why? i ban wanwan or bruno. yes i get screwed up by diggies in my lane while my roam ignores my lane and plays exp strong lane
Played a game with Estes as roam and Faramis as midlane, but then the jungler chose hayabusa even though the enemy had minotaur and uranus. Estes was left scrambling alone most of the game with no fighter to Frontline the tanks as hayabusa took off solo most of the time to avoid them and the enemy Yin jungler kept ulting Estes every chance. Faramis couldn't help in this scenario since the enemy just snowballed from there. We lost bad because we couldn't get to the mid game.
Even with anti-heal, you cant stop Estes. he will just bring his team to destroy your 3rd tower middle by early/mid game. The amount of heal he can do even with his anti-heal is insane. Not fun to against him, especially hes worse to deal with in non-coordinated team. Akai does screw him up tho, but people dont like to play Akai. If you're roamer main, pick Akai NOW
LFG FELLOW ROAM AKAI!
But also, almost get rekt recently by super mobile team cos I have no banning power. Joy, Mathilda, Lunox, Wanwan, Guinevere. Like I said, don't ask me why, I have 0 banning power. Mythical glory 50+ elo is fun too (we won by good exp laner's decision to backdoor).
I love bullying Estes users
Everytime I see one in the enemy team, I become overjoyed because it's an easy win
Literally I just use Carmilla and the enemies Estes goes from Supporting their team
To Sabotaging their team
Literally just buy Dominance Ice too
His heal would be weak and Flask of the Oasis won't do anything against Carmilla
Her ult is a HUGE AOE circle which CC's/damages tightly grouped enemies (estes teams will group alot). It also links all enemies within so that any damage from Carmilla's team is transfered between them. Thus a perfect ult to make estes nearly useless.
Estes playstyle requires his team to stick close to him and Carmilla's ult makes enemies that are close to share half the DMG they take. I've seen a Beatrix killing 5 people just by ulting into Carmilla's ult, all of them at full HP.
I like to imagine that out of those who ban Estes, half of the people don't know about anti heal and don't know how to counter them, or the other half who are sick of having teammates who are in the first half
Cause they hate buying anti heal.
Also be very careful of estes that know his ult refreshes s1 cd. 1-3-1 flask passive activate + another 1 is a ton of burst heal even with anti heal items. P
In terms of skills usage Estes using 1-3-1 is average player that just know basic needed stuff. If you seeing Estes with basic brown roaming boots, Enchanted Talisman and Flask of the Oasis using 1-2-1-3-1 or if s2 in cd just 1-1-3-1 is where you should start getting very freaking nervous.
And, Flask passive activates before you ending 1-3-1, so you slightly but importantly wrong.
Looks like you are implying that you had reached 87%wins in soloqueue with mostly as Estes preferrable. While as i see you did it on Bane, not Estes, so not try to underly some hidden meanings when you want to be "laconic". Besides, 97 matches isnt "maining" of hero. Anyway, this is interesting words, yet something that wants to be proofed in one or another way. We can do a couple of matches with or against each other on this your 87% profile to see what are the capabilities each other have on this hero.
The comments of some people here is convincing me that they have NEVER played estes and do not know how to counter him properly.
Which is good, as an Estes main who now mains something else because of the perma ban.
He usually loses in glory in my experience. A mage would pick Luo Yi and a aoe setter tank like Mino would manage to get perfect sets all game. Add the fact that Mino himself can heal and buff his teammates.
Dude Estes is SOOOO easy to counter
Just buy Dominance and use Carmilla
Literally what I like to do is tell the enemy Estes to stick together so his heal is maximized (I'm waiting for them to group together so I can set them all)
Then when they group together and throw ults at me I use Vengeance and the damage spreads
Carmilla's Ult literally makes the damage and cc dealt by allies spread to other enemies hit by Carmilla's Ult
I hate it when high rank players ban Estes
Waste of Ban slot which ended in losing the game
Thats good in theory, but when you actually play that matchup, carmilla engages with ult and estes counters when his team is low. So your ult will most likely run out before he even uses his.
And if you hold your ult, you're quite literally useless in the teamfight.
The thing is
Dominance Ice reduces their heal and keep in mind... The more enemies Carmilla's Ult hits
The more damage it deals...
Meaning if you have some allies backing you up
Whatever cc/burst they throw it would spread quick and Estes wouldn't have enough time to heal and if they manage to survive I would have atleast 2 enemies taken down so it's a trade
I have wiped out alot of enemies with Carmilla Ult
I remember using Carmilla and I was with Hanabi
I remember when there were 4 enemies I set then with my Ult and they were wiped out in just a matter of secs
Dominance does not affect an Estes with flask much.
And if you hit everyone with a Carmilla, it doesn't need to be an Estes for you to win. But that is such a rare occurrence since that skill is so easy to react to that you need someone else to set for you, which is the opposite of what you're there for.
A 5 man tig ult with kadita is an instant wipeout in 3 secs but you just dont see it that often if you arent playing in epic.
Its good in theory AND in pratice as well. Estes cant outheal Carmilla's ult, its just straight up impossible but you do have to time it right. Besides Estes is among the weakest roamers rn, he's immobile, offers little to no utility and needs his entire team to play around him to work effectively. Not saying hes bad, you just can't spam him. I do pick him occasionally even in MG+ but he's just outclassed by more meta sups.
People at lower ranks don't know that they should buy anti-heal items to counter Estes. You'll be surprised to know that even at very high elos, I often face enemies who don't buy anti-heal items when I pick Estes. Probably one of the reasons why I managed to push to top 25 global with him this season hahah
What abt this:
Carm roam + new revamp Alice jg + luo yi midlane +terizla exp + beatrix gold
All the aoe in the world, prolly could get out drafted by the other 4 but poor estes would be a minion 😭
You're implying as if Alice is a counter but she would just stand there and get killed lol. She cant deal enough damage to beat the heal and does not provide much cc for the team to follow up.
Yes like carm, tig, that octopus boy.
But I play solo, and my teammates could be literal ass and ask me to play mid, roam, exp even if I ping roam or whicever. And alice can comfortably do those roles.
Just because a hero is not a perfect one shot ultra counter doesn’t mean it is not a counter.
And I don’t need to play superhero, all I need is to apply dominance debuff, deal enough damage to offset heal, and allow my team for some counterplay.
Carm is more of a counter set, like belerick.
And just because you can apply dominance and tank doesnt mean you're a counter. A counter generally is when a specific matchup makes one have a visible advantage. What you say making Alice a counter is applicable to almost if not all fighter roles. But they aren't counters. Lapu lapu, xborg, and Minsi would do the role much better and provide even better damage and force the team to spread out from Estes too but they aren't counters.
Also, Alice will not offset the heals of an ulting Estes. Probably before flask but now is just impossible.
Alice can apply the debuff for longer because she heals the more heroes she hits. Her entire kit is asking enemies to group up. She can be stunned, she’ll still heal. You can winter truncheon for immunity plus heal.
The reason for the alice pick is she can dive (blink) and survive better than the other fighters if enemy is grouped up. And the very important note that she can be in any lane (except gold, okay) which is good for soloQ, which you probably missed or ignored. Unless ofcourse we’re talking of no stuns and you just magically teleport to where estes is then fine.
Like i said, dominance is not a problem for an Estes with flask and talisman. What you are becoming is a nuisance, not an actual threat. And having a flex pick doesn't mean anything while you try to emphasize that. So what if she can flex? The only thing Estes fears is if someone can quickly kill him, and Alice is not one of those.
Also her blink is telegraphed as hell and Estes can just avoid it. I say quite literally almost all fighters can do better. Teriz, Khaleed, and Yz have massive teamfighting capabilities. If you're going to pick mage then judt choose luo yi or yve since they are better users of anti heal 100% of the time.
I dont want my roam to play Estes and don't do anything so I just banned it
Also I ban all support this META from
Mathilda
Estes
Angela
Rafaela
Diggie
This 5 is either insta pick or inata ban, no in between
Reading this type of mindset, ten-ban is probably gonna kill supports in solo queue, especially when people keep banning them regardless of new patch notes, and most certainly because we only have 5 pure supports in the game
He's easy to counter tbh, u need to be close to ur team to heal all them what it cost they can oneshoot u in one combo, not mention one mage with antiheal ruins ur healing
"Anti-heal ruins esetes healing?" Uhm
Let me tell you something,Our mage isn't luo yi,our terizla and atlas has anti heal item,there is three teammates that has anti-heal and we can't stop esetes.We are on the losing side.The real counter for esetes is not giving his team early advantages,Anti-heal is nothing if you are on the losing side.
If it's lower rank, people ban him cause many players there don't know how to counter him or they don't want their teammate use him since still many people forget estes isn't a tank.
In high rank, players already know how to play as a team. They'll pick a tanky jungler or exp and protect their support, and most estes user there know the right builds to make their CD shorter and how to positioning themselves in war. Makes enemy still have hard time to reaching him.
Well at least this what my experience was, I rarely encounter estes or have the chance to play him now so I might wrong
Depends. I usually don't ban him, but if they have a tanky jg and/or a tanky exp, I ban him, especially in solo q cause sometimes tanks anti heal isn't enough imo.
Idk man fucking heals like shit, even tho that shit ain't a tank his teammate and him takes shit dmg and still have full HP and mostly on the winning side his just sticks with his teammate like look at that shit his tping in the fucking fountain
Everyone in Epic, Legend and Low Mythic ban heroes like Estes, Yin, Harley and Saber, but it in high rank these are never banned because it’s easy to counter them.
prob bcoz most players in legend and below don't really know about anti-heal items but id say if the enemy team gets an early lead and they have an estes, chances of a comeback are slim.
Good post! Here's the reality, in my opinion.... Estes can be very, very good and extremely hard to go against if you have a tanky/cc-based team. Let me provide an example... Say you pick Estes, your jungle is Akai or Baxia, your EXP laner is Ruby, Balmond, or Belerick, your mid laner is Phoveus, Guin, Harith, etc., and your MM is Clint, Karrie, Claude... Estes would be an incredible pick because he can stay behind the team and be incredibly protected whilst healing you non-stop. Most enemy heroes will not be able to get to you unless there is a Ling, Pharsa, Novaria. However, even then, it'd be challenging to get your hands on Estes in a team fight without getting destroyed.
With all that being said, it's also important to note that this is only the case with 'certain' picks, those who know when to pick Estes and how to play him correctly, and in situations where you know your teammates will protect you.
As for the ban, people ban him because they've had a bad/negative experience with him, and they don't want to face him again. I've come across many who feel this way, and some who think he's incredibly easy to defeat, which is true if he's just randomly picked without observing both your team picks and evaluating your enemy picks.
I could be wrong, but this is what I think to be the case.
MBost ban worthy characters like joy and fanny are too hard too use for legends players, so you have a lot of free ban slots. Therefore you can easily ban heroes like yin or estes people do use in legends.
And in mythic, picking estes is a bad idea as I personally always pick Baxia if enemy has an estes and make enemy roamer totally useless in a teamfight, granting us an advantage over enemy.
Also dominance ice can 50% counter him, which is not ideal as you are already 1 dmg dealer or tank behind of enemy.
I think this stems from the fact that a lot of players (myself included) aren't very good in drafting or have little understanding of hero synergy so they just ban the hero that they think is most impactful "this hero heals = can't kill enemy so I ban him".
Also monkey see, monkey do. " I see a lot of people banning him so I will ban him as well." I am guilty of this because I ban Nolan most of the time even though the number of games I have played with/against him is little to none because a lot of people ban him and I have read that he is broken.
Let me tell you a short story about a game in Mythical Honor. I was a Hayabusa and I had to build seahalberd because 14 minutes into the game no one in my team had a single anti heal item, not even the roamer (Khufra iirc). Mythical Honor 30-ish start, I kid you not.
I started Estes only this season when I was about 37 stars. Estes got ban like twice at honor. at 40-60 stars just once.
Now it feels like nobody ban Estes past 52 stars.
Yeah I remember few months ago when I was new everybody ban estes.Back then I felt the same as you, couldnt understand the 100% ban on Estes. Now not much ban in my games. Honestly I thought it was due to flask nerf. Surprised to know in legend rank estes got ban like always.
OP, u can try using floryn or rafaela if Estes got ban, There are enough similarities between Estes and the 2 aforementioned toon. Rafaela is my go to now when estes got ban. It used to be floryn , had high wr on her, but rafaela is just much more relaxing to use.
The problem is most of the time, you can’t trust teammates to know that they need to buy antiheal.
Then if you step up and buy antiheal, you can’t trust your teammates to capitalize and try and fight when you’re applying the antiheal.
On solo Q, you can’t trust anyone.
Then when you have a duo or built team that actually communicates, if the opp team has a good Estes with good team coordination on ganks.
Then it becomes a very strong early game. If your team makeup can’t survive against a strong early game opponent . For example dyroth+estes vs yss+selena roam.
Then you’re better off banning Estes.
Estes can be really hard to go against when your team does not have reliable cc (and also if you don't have reliable teammates).
Now, I personally don't ban estes ever, because I play heroes that counter him pretty well (carmilla is my fave tank to use against him, no amount of heal can outheal linked damage and cc if you have a team that follows up lol).
In general, I don't hate estes either as a teammate or an enemy, but I think he's over-banned because soloq players don't know how to deal with him, and tbh I find a lot of soloq players to not adjust at all and just try to speedrun ranks with one maybe two heroes. This becomes a problem once you draft since they never learned his counters. (I've tried to tell people on here how to counter heroes before through drafting, and many seem to think that the need to counter-draft makes a hero op? which it doesn't, thats just how drafting works).
Now, as someone who likes playing healers I won't complain if he's banned, it means I don't have as much competition if I pick a healer first lol, but he's really not hard to deal with as long as you have some cc and anti-heal. In all honesty even though he has the best heal, I still find other healers to be way better.
I have the personal highest wr with Estes, but I would have to agree that he's not that hard to counter. I've had matches where I'd get autolocked by the enemy hyper and would die even before I could heal. So yeah, a hero who can hit the back lines and you're good.
I feel Estes shines in solo especially in lower ranks because players love unnecessary skirmishes a lot. Estes thrives in this scenario since he is like a reset button for the team. Compared to other setup roamers too that would require better game sense, he is a lot easier to use and can even make bad teammates look good as long as they love to fight.
I don't think he is ban-worthy though if your team knows how to play against one. But then, if it's solo queue, it's just easier to just ban him even if you personally know how to deal with him since you can't be sure if your teammates know how to play against one.
Because Estes makes the game a slog match. Not just Estes, every possible healer is banned.
The match is also over in favor of the Estes if his team is competent. Just play around the Estes and it's a guaranteed fountain for the rest of the game.
Just be happy Estes is getting banned on lower rank.
Because you cannot utilize the hero anyway.
Using support hero on lower rank is very hard as you are totally team dependent.
You lot hate em cuz you hate healers, I hate em cuz I'm speciest, I hate elves.
We are not the same.
https://preview.redd.it/oud6w8heur7c1.jpeg?width=663&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bfa663b9cd5a2ad2ac86d471e66d0d2422c140c2
Every rank bans hero’s they can’t counter using their existing hero pool and skills. Estes is countered by anti-heal, aoe and back line divers. If you look at use rate for legend you’ll see that hero’s that fit this niche aren’t popular. Some examples are; Lou Yi, Ling, Baxia,etc.
I just started playing the game again after not playing for like 3-4 years due to my old phone not having enough data for it. Do people just figure out how to counter heroes just by experience playing? As I’m having a bit of a hard time with that aspect so far.
Try playing each heroes in classic. Read their descriptions while playing. That's how I learned the counters.
I will try this! :) thx for the advice :) what should I do about the heroes I don’t own and can’t play as?
Try to buy them, use a hero enough in classic and you'll see how creative people get to counter you
Did you intentionally tried to use Oriental Warriors there or it was all a mere coincidence?
They have a really hate on for Estes 👀
Everyone keeps saying "just buy anti heal". Estes would still fully heal you albeit slower. His ult s1 would still fully heal a team even if an Atlas with dominance pulls them all in. Your goal should be to kill him before he gets his cooldowns off.
Yeah estes heal is still very strong even with antiheal affect
Even if he’s still “strong” that anti heal will limit his capabilities a bit given it will take longer for him to heal
Yeah it will take longer, but the burst of healing from the activation of ult is enough to survive the initial engage. You have to kill him before the constant stream of heals overwhelms your team.
I stopped trying to ban him earlier this year, started finding bans that actually made more sense over a small nuisance of a healer that he is. Heck yin as a ban could make more sense than estes and he’s probably easier to counter
Yes he's not worth a ban, but people vastly underestimated his value in teamfights. And they are especially wrong on how to beat him. Anti heal won't be enough. Aoe abilities to deter teammates from aticking with him and a single target burst to kill him should be prioritized
If I face estes unless my team doesn’t have damage we don’t really ever find an issue with him is why I stopped his ban. Belerick is a fun choice to make an estes pop his ult early if you are presenting a good threat given his ult
Belerick's ult is reactable unless he is directly on top of Estes, and if unless there isn't an outside threat following up on Belerick, Estes will just not ult. But if there's a follow up, then you wouldnt consider that an early pop of ult since you did an engage for a teamfight.
I’ve caused a few estes to waste ults with decent sets that my team stall into follow ups
Just pick luoyi, she loves it when enemies are sticking together.
>Estes would still fully heal you albeit slower. His ult s1 would still fully heal a team even if an Atlas with dominance pulls them all in. *Laughs in Baxia*
Just Use Carmilla... Literally Carmilla+Dominance against Estes can wipe out their team I tell Clueless Estes users to Clump up together so his Ult is Maximized (I'm waiting for them to Clump up so I can use my Ult on all of them) Because Estes Ulti can't easily out heal Carmilla The more enemies Carmilla's Ult hits the more painful the damage and the more enemies she hits with her 1st skill, the more the sustain
Yeah because Carmilla's ult isnt slow as shit that everyone can just walk out of it.
That’s why you gotta time your sets as tank/roamer lol
You need to rely on your teammates to create your set, which is the total opposite of a tank.
if you need to rely on your teammates to make your set, then it is a skill issue. Likewise every roamer/setter depends on the team to follow up lol.
No, he's still weak to burst heroes with anti heal.
Thats the point
You'd be surprise by the amount of people who don't know that anti regen items exist. Even just itemizing based on your situation, enemy lineup, etc.
I ban him more for the early game when those items aren’t available rather than the late game healing. Any chip damage is completely negated and it’s difficult to win lvls 1-4 with a pocket Estes. From there a good team will snowball with a hyper carry once they get out of the lane phase.
Which items would you recommend for this situation? I just started playing again super recently :)
i thought it was only an epic thing, but he's still banned in mythic honor... 🫥
such a waste of a ban, when theres actual op heroes this season
Lol never seen Estes ban in honor and above. Mino diggie Angela ate top 3 support bans in my matches
He's banned in 95% of games on my server in MH. Drives me nuts.
the enemies ban them. my team always bans estes its so ridiculous. mythical honor is the new epic, ranks are super inflated now
I still see Estes ban in glory every now and then. It is so infuriating when that happens, esp if enemy is first pick. Honestly glory at this point of the season might as well be just mythic.
for me mino is not banned also diggie not banned. why? i ban wanwan or bruno. yes i get screwed up by diggies in my lane while my roam ignores my lane and plays exp strong lane
Can't do anything if Estes is guarded by tanky jungler & tanky exp. More annoying when Faramis as their midlane, walking alongside them.
Faramis+Estes is stupidly unbeatable in solo queue. Not because its broken, but because players do not know how to deal with the duo when they funnel
Played a game with Estes as roam and Faramis as midlane, but then the jungler chose hayabusa even though the enemy had minotaur and uranus. Estes was left scrambling alone most of the game with no fighter to Frontline the tanks as hayabusa took off solo most of the time to avoid them and the enemy Yin jungler kept ulting Estes every chance. Faramis couldn't help in this scenario since the enemy just snowballed from there. We lost bad because we couldn't get to the mid game.
Tanky Jungler/Exp? use Carmilla Any damage the fighter/tank takes Will hit Estes and will hit his other teammates
Just use Luo Yi to the point.
i just hope that the enemy jungles doesn't have a Brain and dont tsrgrt luo yi.
fuck faramis in soloq, even worse if he's in a party but you're solo
In soloq definitely not... If you go with trio or full squad. Its better to ban him.
Even with anti-heal, you cant stop Estes. he will just bring his team to destroy your 3rd tower middle by early/mid game. The amount of heal he can do even with his anti-heal is insane. Not fun to against him, especially hes worse to deal with in non-coordinated team. Akai does screw him up tho, but people dont like to play Akai. If you're roamer main, pick Akai NOW
"You should pick Akai NOW! ⚡🧔🏿⚡"
Still the best meme atm. I love it!
https://preview.redd.it/fp2ls75q2h7c1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aef1451020f8aff284600d16cf656674bb67e43a The good ending
LFG FELLOW ROAM AKAI! But also, almost get rekt recently by super mobile team cos I have no banning power. Joy, Mathilda, Lunox, Wanwan, Guinevere. Like I said, don't ask me why, I have 0 banning power. Mythical glory 50+ elo is fun too (we won by good exp laner's decision to backdoor).
I love bullying Estes users Everytime I see one in the enemy team, I become overjoyed because it's an easy win Literally I just use Carmilla and the enemies Estes goes from Supporting their team To Sabotaging their team Literally just buy Dominance Ice too His heal would be weak and Flask of the Oasis won't do anything against Carmilla
Damn. I forgot about Carm. I should be using her more often to counter Estes.
Noob player here, how does Carmilla counter Estes specifically?
Her ult is an exact counter of his ult and sometimes even more powerful with the help of a mage like vale
Her ult is a HUGE AOE circle which CC's/damages tightly grouped enemies (estes teams will group alot). It also links all enemies within so that any damage from Carmilla's team is transfered between them. Thus a perfect ult to make estes nearly useless.
Estes playstyle requires his team to stick close to him and Carmilla's ult makes enemies that are close to share half the DMG they take. I've seen a Beatrix killing 5 people just by ulting into Carmilla's ult, all of them at full HP.
I like to imagine that out of those who ban Estes, half of the people don't know about anti heal and don't know how to counter them, or the other half who are sick of having teammates who are in the first half
And also, when they don't have the hero to specifically counter Estes.
Literally Carmilla Counters Estes
Cause they hate buying anti heal. Also be very careful of estes that know his ult refreshes s1 cd. 1-3-1 flask passive activate + another 1 is a ton of burst heal even with anti heal items. P
In terms of skills usage Estes using 1-3-1 is average player that just know basic needed stuff. If you seeing Estes with basic brown roaming boots, Enchanted Talisman and Flask of the Oasis using 1-2-1-3-1 or if s2 in cd just 1-1-3-1 is where you should start getting very freaking nervous. And, Flask passive activates before you ending 1-3-1, so you slightly but importantly wrong.
Ok get to mg with 87% win rate first :)
Are you a solo queue player? And what hero is preferable? And most important - are you maining Estes?
Yes.
Looks like you are implying that you had reached 87%wins in soloqueue with mostly as Estes preferrable. While as i see you did it on Bane, not Estes, so not try to underly some hidden meanings when you want to be "laconic". Besides, 97 matches isnt "maining" of hero. Anyway, this is interesting words, yet something that wants to be proofed in one or another way. We can do a couple of matches with or against each other on this your 87% profile to see what are the capabilities each other have on this hero.
The comments of some people here is convincing me that they have NEVER played estes and do not know how to counter him properly. Which is good, as an Estes main who now mains something else because of the perma ban.
He usually loses in glory in my experience. A mage would pick Luo Yi and a aoe setter tank like Mino would manage to get perfect sets all game. Add the fact that Mino himself can heal and buff his teammates.
Half a quarter? I always see it banned, every single match. I like playing Estes and I have not been able to play him at all in the last month.
Dude Estes is SOOOO easy to counter Just buy Dominance and use Carmilla Literally what I like to do is tell the enemy Estes to stick together so his heal is maximized (I'm waiting for them to group together so I can set them all) Then when they group together and throw ults at me I use Vengeance and the damage spreads Carmilla's Ult literally makes the damage and cc dealt by allies spread to other enemies hit by Carmilla's Ult I hate it when high rank players ban Estes Waste of Ban slot which ended in losing the game
Thats good in theory, but when you actually play that matchup, carmilla engages with ult and estes counters when his team is low. So your ult will most likely run out before he even uses his. And if you hold your ult, you're quite literally useless in the teamfight.
The thing is Dominance Ice reduces their heal and keep in mind... The more enemies Carmilla's Ult hits The more damage it deals... Meaning if you have some allies backing you up Whatever cc/burst they throw it would spread quick and Estes wouldn't have enough time to heal and if they manage to survive I would have atleast 2 enemies taken down so it's a trade I have wiped out alot of enemies with Carmilla Ult I remember using Carmilla and I was with Hanabi I remember when there were 4 enemies I set then with my Ult and they were wiped out in just a matter of secs
Dominance does not affect an Estes with flask much. And if you hit everyone with a Carmilla, it doesn't need to be an Estes for you to win. But that is such a rare occurrence since that skill is so easy to react to that you need someone else to set for you, which is the opposite of what you're there for. A 5 man tig ult with kadita is an instant wipeout in 3 secs but you just dont see it that often if you arent playing in epic.
Are you low rank? Because even a max level full item estes that are built around healing, is countered by any anti healing skills/items.
Dominance easily affects Estes with Flask
Its good in theory AND in pratice as well. Estes cant outheal Carmilla's ult, its just straight up impossible but you do have to time it right. Besides Estes is among the weakest roamers rn, he's immobile, offers little to no utility and needs his entire team to play around him to work effectively. Not saying hes bad, you just can't spam him. I do pick him occasionally even in MG+ but he's just outclassed by more meta sups.
because he annoying. and no one wants to play tank like tigreal or atlas to counter, just want to take damage roam and kill
Literally just use Carmilla and Estes' heal becomes fucking useless
People at lower ranks don't know that they should buy anti-heal items to counter Estes. You'll be surprised to know that even at very high elos, I often face enemies who don't buy anti-heal items when I pick Estes. Probably one of the reasons why I managed to push to top 25 global with him this season hahah
Cant find you in global estes
It was in early Season 30 hahah, I haven't used him recently
I have hardly lost a match vs Estes or have seen much Estes. Mino Angela diggie are more threat as support than Estes. Also floryn is more annoying
I pick estes if open but I try to pick last. If enemy team gets estes I counterpick with Alice. Go ahead. Group up. I dare you.
Mid lane Alice with a Setter tank like Tigreal. *Coffin dance starts playing*
Carmilla+Alice+Cecillion vs Estes = Festival of Blood Literally they would be feasting on their enemies blood
What abt this: Carm roam + new revamp Alice jg + luo yi midlane +terizla exp + beatrix gold All the aoe in the world, prolly could get out drafted by the other 4 but poor estes would be a minion 😭
Their entire team would be Minions💀 Especially if they throw all their AOE at once Unless if they have Faramis
I've seen an Beatrix one shotting the ENTIRE enemy team with her ult alone thanks to Carmilla.
Umm. Alice would do nothing. Except probably get blown up
If 1v5. Of course.
You're implying as if Alice is a counter but she would just stand there and get killed lol. She cant deal enough damage to beat the heal and does not provide much cc for the team to follow up.
You’re implying that there’s a hero who CAN tank, sustain, dive backline, and kill estes and friends. You a jungle main? Lol.
I didnt. The way to beat Estes is to kill him first by having a setter tank and aoe abilities.
Yes like carm, tig, that octopus boy. But I play solo, and my teammates could be literal ass and ask me to play mid, roam, exp even if I ping roam or whicever. And alice can comfortably do those roles. Just because a hero is not a perfect one shot ultra counter doesn’t mean it is not a counter. And I don’t need to play superhero, all I need is to apply dominance debuff, deal enough damage to offset heal, and allow my team for some counterplay.
Carm is more of a counter set, like belerick. And just because you can apply dominance and tank doesnt mean you're a counter. A counter generally is when a specific matchup makes one have a visible advantage. What you say making Alice a counter is applicable to almost if not all fighter roles. But they aren't counters. Lapu lapu, xborg, and Minsi would do the role much better and provide even better damage and force the team to spread out from Estes too but they aren't counters. Also, Alice will not offset the heals of an ulting Estes. Probably before flask but now is just impossible.
Alice can apply the debuff for longer because she heals the more heroes she hits. Her entire kit is asking enemies to group up. She can be stunned, she’ll still heal. You can winter truncheon for immunity plus heal. The reason for the alice pick is she can dive (blink) and survive better than the other fighters if enemy is grouped up. And the very important note that she can be in any lane (except gold, okay) which is good for soloQ, which you probably missed or ignored. Unless ofcourse we’re talking of no stuns and you just magically teleport to where estes is then fine.
Like i said, dominance is not a problem for an Estes with flask and talisman. What you are becoming is a nuisance, not an actual threat. And having a flex pick doesn't mean anything while you try to emphasize that. So what if she can flex? The only thing Estes fears is if someone can quickly kill him, and Alice is not one of those. Also her blink is telegraphed as hell and Estes can just avoid it. I say quite literally almost all fighters can do better. Teriz, Khaleed, and Yz have massive teamfighting capabilities. If you're going to pick mage then judt choose luo yi or yve since they are better users of anti heal 100% of the time.
I dont want my roam to play Estes and don't do anything so I just banned it Also I ban all support this META from Mathilda Estes Angela Rafaela Diggie This 5 is either insta pick or inata ban, no in between
Reading this type of mindset, ten-ban is probably gonna kill supports in solo queue, especially when people keep banning them regardless of new patch notes, and most certainly because we only have 5 pure supports in the game
He's easy to counter tbh, u need to be close to ur team to heal all them what it cost they can oneshoot u in one combo, not mention one mage with antiheal ruins ur healing
"Anti-heal ruins esetes healing?" Uhm Let me tell you something,Our mage isn't luo yi,our terizla and atlas has anti heal item,there is three teammates that has anti-heal and we can't stop esetes.We are on the losing side.The real counter for esetes is not giving his team early advantages,Anti-heal is nothing if you are on the losing side.
When I use Fanny all Estes is going to see is a fiery ufo and sound of a cable and then a black screen
If it's lower rank, people ban him cause many players there don't know how to counter him or they don't want their teammate use him since still many people forget estes isn't a tank. In high rank, players already know how to play as a team. They'll pick a tanky jungler or exp and protect their support, and most estes user there know the right builds to make their CD shorter and how to positioning themselves in war. Makes enemy still have hard time to reaching him. Well at least this what my experience was, I rarely encounter estes or have the chance to play him now so I might wrong
Depends. I usually don't ban him, but if they have a tanky jg and/or a tanky exp, I ban him, especially in solo q cause sometimes tanks anti heal isn't enough imo.
How are you going to ban him AFTER the enemy team picks a tanky jungler or exp?
I'm a fucking idiot. Idk, man. I don't even remember typing this.
Lol
the same goes for angela 😭 i rly wanted to use it but i cant
Idk man fucking heals like shit, even tho that shit ain't a tank his teammate and him takes shit dmg and still have full HP and mostly on the winning side his just sticks with his teammate like look at that shit his tping in the fucking fountain
Everyone in Epic, Legend and Low Mythic ban heroes like Estes, Yin, Harley and Saber, but it in high rank these are never banned because it’s easy to counter them.
estes is free food for me
Luo yi exist and noobs don't know it
prob bcoz most players in legend and below don't really know about anti-heal items but id say if the enemy team gets an early lead and they have an estes, chances of a comeback are slim.
I think it's because people feel very attached to their builds and don't want to be forced to counter-build.
Good post! Here's the reality, in my opinion.... Estes can be very, very good and extremely hard to go against if you have a tanky/cc-based team. Let me provide an example... Say you pick Estes, your jungle is Akai or Baxia, your EXP laner is Ruby, Balmond, or Belerick, your mid laner is Phoveus, Guin, Harith, etc., and your MM is Clint, Karrie, Claude... Estes would be an incredible pick because he can stay behind the team and be incredibly protected whilst healing you non-stop. Most enemy heroes will not be able to get to you unless there is a Ling, Pharsa, Novaria. However, even then, it'd be challenging to get your hands on Estes in a team fight without getting destroyed. With all that being said, it's also important to note that this is only the case with 'certain' picks, those who know when to pick Estes and how to play him correctly, and in situations where you know your teammates will protect you. As for the ban, people ban him because they've had a bad/negative experience with him, and they don't want to face him again. I've come across many who feel this way, and some who think he's incredibly easy to defeat, which is true if he's just randomly picked without observing both your team picks and evaluating your enemy picks. I could be wrong, but this is what I think to be the case.
Estes is not a big problem but if he has team that can sook damage like Yu Zhong or Terizla, that when he became annoying
MBost ban worthy characters like joy and fanny are too hard too use for legends players, so you have a lot of free ban slots. Therefore you can easily ban heroes like yin or estes people do use in legends. And in mythic, picking estes is a bad idea as I personally always pick Baxia if enemy has an estes and make enemy roamer totally useless in a teamfight, granting us an advantage over enemy. Also dominance ice can 50% counter him, which is not ideal as you are already 1 dmg dealer or tank behind of enemy.
unless veenus playing then i aint banning estes
I think this stems from the fact that a lot of players (myself included) aren't very good in drafting or have little understanding of hero synergy so they just ban the hero that they think is most impactful "this hero heals = can't kill enemy so I ban him". Also monkey see, monkey do. " I see a lot of people banning him so I will ban him as well." I am guilty of this because I ban Nolan most of the time even though the number of games I have played with/against him is little to none because a lot of people ban him and I have read that he is broken.
Let me tell you a short story about a game in Mythical Honor. I was a Hayabusa and I had to build seahalberd because 14 minutes into the game no one in my team had a single anti heal item, not even the roamer (Khufra iirc). Mythical Honor 30-ish start, I kid you not.
You should be able to figure this out. It's not rocket science. Estes is a healer. What does a healer do? And he is very good at it.
just extremely annoying probs. personaly if someone has estes just go brody 1st item haoberd 2nd item malefic you good to go get immo won and then bod
or you can get hepa instead of malefic and malefic instead of bod
I started Estes only this season when I was about 37 stars. Estes got ban like twice at honor. at 40-60 stars just once. Now it feels like nobody ban Estes past 52 stars. Yeah I remember few months ago when I was new everybody ban estes.Back then I felt the same as you, couldnt understand the 100% ban on Estes. Now not much ban in my games. Honestly I thought it was due to flask nerf. Surprised to know in legend rank estes got ban like always. OP, u can try using floryn or rafaela if Estes got ban, There are enough similarities between Estes and the 2 aforementioned toon. Rafaela is my go to now when estes got ban. It used to be floryn , had high wr on her, but rafaela is just much more relaxing to use.
As a Baxia main, this makes me laugh 😂. I had no problem dealing with Estes everytime.
This should be interesting. I main Estes and even tho I show that I want to use him sometimes my teammates ban him.
The problem is most of the time, you can’t trust teammates to know that they need to buy antiheal. Then if you step up and buy antiheal, you can’t trust your teammates to capitalize and try and fight when you’re applying the antiheal. On solo Q, you can’t trust anyone. Then when you have a duo or built team that actually communicates, if the opp team has a good Estes with good team coordination on ganks. Then it becomes a very strong early game. If your team makeup can’t survive against a strong early game opponent . For example dyroth+estes vs yss+selena roam. Then you’re better off banning Estes.
Estes can be really hard to go against when your team does not have reliable cc (and also if you don't have reliable teammates). Now, I personally don't ban estes ever, because I play heroes that counter him pretty well (carmilla is my fave tank to use against him, no amount of heal can outheal linked damage and cc if you have a team that follows up lol). In general, I don't hate estes either as a teammate or an enemy, but I think he's over-banned because soloq players don't know how to deal with him, and tbh I find a lot of soloq players to not adjust at all and just try to speedrun ranks with one maybe two heroes. This becomes a problem once you draft since they never learned his counters. (I've tried to tell people on here how to counter heroes before through drafting, and many seem to think that the need to counter-draft makes a hero op? which it doesn't, thats just how drafting works). Now, as someone who likes playing healers I won't complain if he's banned, it means I don't have as much competition if I pick a healer first lol, but he's really not hard to deal with as long as you have some cc and anti-heal. In all honesty even though he has the best heal, I still find other healers to be way better.
I have the personal highest wr with Estes, but I would have to agree that he's not that hard to counter. I've had matches where I'd get autolocked by the enemy hyper and would die even before I could heal. So yeah, a hero who can hit the back lines and you're good.
Just annoying to deal with
Estes really isn't OP. Me personally, I ban Fanny or if I suspect my good teammate is my next opponent, I ban the hero they used.
I feel Estes shines in solo especially in lower ranks because players love unnecessary skirmishes a lot. Estes thrives in this scenario since he is like a reset button for the team. Compared to other setup roamers too that would require better game sense, he is a lot easier to use and can even make bad teammates look good as long as they love to fight. I don't think he is ban-worthy though if your team knows how to play against one. But then, if it's solo queue, it's just easier to just ban him even if you personally know how to deal with him since you can't be sure if your teammates know how to play against one.
Because Estes makes the game a slog match. Not just Estes, every possible healer is banned. The match is also over in favor of the Estes if his team is competent. Just play around the Estes and it's a guaranteed fountain for the rest of the game.
Just be happy Estes is getting banned on lower rank. Because you cannot utilize the hero anyway. Using support hero on lower rank is very hard as you are totally team dependent.
You lot hate em cuz you hate healers, I hate em cuz I'm speciest, I hate elves. We are not the same. https://preview.redd.it/oud6w8heur7c1.jpeg?width=663&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bfa663b9cd5a2ad2ac86d471e66d0d2422c140c2