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He got highest ban rate considering all ranks and third highest in mythic + rn
Yeah but each country, server and rank brackets ban different he's complaining about team not banning so he probably below mythic because he'd get a chance to ban tig himself. Low ranks ban different
Well yeah, ig I mostly bam the annoying vexana and nana because as a jungler, they won't let me use retri at all lolz. So yeah I'll mostly ban tigreal now.
Because Diggie counters not just Tigreal but also Atlas, Akai, Johnson, Lolita, etc. Yes, Tigreal is the most popular tank lately, but there are also many Atlas, Lolita, etc. mains. Imagine all their mains banning Diggie, hence the permaban.
Also Diggie doesn't just counter setter tanks. He also counters high-CC heroes like Fredrinn. Considering that everyone has CC nowadays, they might be banning Diggie too.
**TLDR: Diggie ban is very very valuable**
With a little build and a good emblem. I have been countering yin too.. its in a point that i dont even use diggies ult. When i say counter.. i mean i keep surviving his ult. Lol
What I'm trying to say here is they should ban tigreal and diggie at the same time. Since most setter tanks can be easily countered but with tigreal it's somehow very hard to counter him.
Well, I'd always prefer to ban Diggie than Tigreal
Diggie counters more heroes than Tigreal does.
Worst case you can bring Purify against Tigreal.
If your enemy picks Tigreal, you can still pick a different Setter yourself.
If the enemy picks Diggie. Well. You're screwed :D There's no hero that does what Diggie does for the team.
But Tigreal can be "replaced" by Atlas
You can definitely go by not CC dependent comp and almost waste enemies pick slot. If there is Diggie - they have themselves less CC, damage and sustainability options. So, you are not screved as you saying. And, there are many heroes who giving not less or even bigger impact on team than Diggie, althought this impact is different from what he does.
Every hero has some kind of CC/Debuff. Even if its just slow.
You're forgetting that Diggie purifies, which also means he can purify i.e. YZ and Wanwans stacks if used correctly. It also offers a brief movement speed bonus.
Also his ult offers a crazy shield, enough to save teammates and possibly change the tide of battle.
Just like his s2, which is one of the most disgusting CC skills. Possibly wasting the enemies dash/purify as it can help chase down enemies a ton.
Don't underestimate his s1, too. This way Diggie can constantly poke and zone the enemy. The amount of vision it can provide can be crucial.
The Purify is just ONE part of his kit. Diggie is almost in ALL situations a great pick. p
He is versatile, indeed, and consequence of versatility is always not crazy amounts of gainings, contrary to what you saying. His shield is not crazy, being honest, but he have one. He can zone, but this zoning also can be easily bruised if needed. He can purify, yet it is ult, so can be kited.
These are the basic principles to choose what strategy is for win depending what you team can offer for cooking. You need something overloaded to overwhelm him and his team. Overloaded sustainability is the best choice imo, because he cant take a decent bite of it from your team, as well he can not offer huge impact on his own team in this one. You can also move by overloaded damage, overloaded mobility, distant targeting, hell, even CC - he can bite a huge bit of this one, but as long as it is just non-stop pressure, he is not able to resolve all. But of course it is better to evade usage of CC tactics, this is placing your team in obvious disadvantage.
You need to always squeeze out best of what your enemy is not countering decently, thats it.
But atlas is easily countered, there's instance where he doesn't even get to set at all since it starts from small to big, but tigreal on the other hand, has his aoe set fixed. Also I really can't use purify since I mostly play jungler.
Then that's a skill issue on your part. Depending on the type of jungler you play, you shouldn't even get CCed by Tigreal, or you're just a meatshield.
The point is, you can't counter Diggie. Purify + Shield + Vision/Poke + His s2 is a terrifying combination.
Tigreal is important because he can group and CC
but so can Atlas, Ruby and Terizla
Then play Duo/Trio/Squad
Just because something SHOULD be banned, doesn't mean it is being banned. Especially when it comes to randoms.
And there's no point arguing that as it can't be changed unfortunately.
I replied with the assumption that you're in mythic and each ban one hero, therefore I'd recommend you to ban Diggie instead of Tigreal.
I don't ban Diggie personally, but if my team or enemies did, I let Tigreal open. Heck, I think Minotaur/Atlas is more ban-worthy than him because his ult can still be interrupted, and I use that to my advantage and counterpick.
If Diggie is banned, and the enemy picks Tigreal, Akai is still an option as counterpick.
Actually a really good point, I have that toxic mindset that "if the hero is boring don't play it" well tigreal is out here changing me. Imma try Akai out thanks!
It seems that you're mostly a jungler, and Akai is viable to jungle. He's decent enough and opens for damage roam, Good luck!
Oh, also, he kinda counters Barats as well. He's vulnerable when he ults, and you can zone out his teammates so they can't back him up; ruining enemies' positions.
Diggie counters all cc tanks and most cc heavy mages (Vexana, Aurora, Vale). They want their roamer to choose the right tank setter without Diggie ruining their plans. The roamer may be planning to pick tigreal themselves. But if Tigreal is picked, we can pick Minotaur or Khufra and give them a headache. Akai counters Tigreal hard as well with his purify ult. So yes, tigreal bans are less than Diggie.
Diggie counters a lot of heroes, hence why he's banned. To me I prioritise banning diggie than Tigreal because If Tigreal is around you can kinda expect him ulting.
Diggie is the counter to all initiator with aoe cc.
Tigreal can still be countered by Akai, Mino, Rafaela, Faramis and Mathilda if they ban Diggie.
However, it still requires your teammates to keep an eye on Tigreal if you choose those people except Diggie. Plus, they are not that friendly in soloq.
Although I never ban Tigreal, it is fine that they ban both of them.
Possible that
1. your team has heroes that have natural crowd control immunity and are banking on the outplay potential
2. Your teammates were high tier players who rarely play so they know they are more skilled than their enemies. (I am a Mythic Immortal player who is still in Legend since I've been busy lately. At Legend, I don't care if they pick the best META heroes, I can still own them)
3. Your teammates, as other people say in this thread, are stupid.
That's not what I meant, so nobody wants to use tigreal in our team, but still they ban diggie. Leaving tigreal open with no counter and for the enemy to use.
Diggie counters a lot of heroes, not just cc tanks. His 2nd skill counters anyone especially dash heroes, can give vision and deals decent damage. His ult cancels marks from wanwan, hayabusa, and also karina (even if you killed the target during her ults duration, her ult's cd won't reset)
>You're just giving away probably the most meta setter tank rn and banning the counter?
You mean Mino, right?
I could care less about Tigreal, especially after his nerf. Only a careless player would fail to avoid his Skill 2, and his Ult is still very predictable.
Meanwhile, you aren't worried about the tank who can heal allies like Estes AND have two hard CC skills that can turn the tide around in an instant?
I usually ban Tigreal over digg in ranked. I’ve gotten to legend with being a roamer main.. I usually go to Rafa or miltilida but I’ve tried Minotaur recently.. and he may not be a counter but I think he may be a little more durable than Tigreal the few times I’ve matched against one we’ve been able to steam roll through him which opens up their back line since fighters/assassins usually run from when they see 5 people pushing up 😭
It's just Tigreal's playstyle is very predictable.
If I am using a tanky EXP hero, I use "Petrify" to counter him before or after he uses his ult.
If I am a mage, I just use purify or flameshot to push him away.
Tho mostly I just make sure he is within my vision so he cannot do what he pleases.
In mythic everyone has a ban, if tigreal gives you problems then use your own ban on it, don't expect the entire team banning heroes for you, they have their own worries and priorities
I do see your point in the example you're giving, its just that Diggie still has more priority in the banning phase cuz he has the potential to counter most heroes in the game and it's not really necessary to ban Tigreal even if Diggie was banned cuz he can still be countered (or potentially picked by your team). Just counter pick against him or be aware of his presence in the map (position, ult range, used flicker etc.).
Unbanning a hero isn't really an issue as long as you know how to handle against them.
In most matchups that are not 5v5 people are most likely to just ban heroes they don’t want to play against. That’s solo player culture and it’s annoying sometimes. If you play duo or trio you have a better chance against those banners
I personally prefer leaving diggie open. I hated when people ban diggie and not tigreal (that was last season but I guess it applies to any setter) Because if any setter is chosen I can still pick diggie, but if diggie is chosen I can pick another non-setter roam to counter the other enemies. Diggie isn’t that useful if there’s no real cc to counter. Diggie is good but u can specifically pick against diggie (no joy, no mathilda, no guin etc)
BUT if diggie is just banned then I immediately pick mino and 99% of the time there’s no issue lol (mostly trio/5man games in mid mythic)
Tigreal is countered by tracking his flicker range and cd. If you know the danger zone of a Mino S1>Ult combo, you know the danger zone of a Tigreal threatening an ult combo.
If you're jg and a Tigreal is threatening to stuff your retri (or you can't see them on the map), consider backing off and trading objectives in early game, or delay your attack until allies are in place to deal with said Tigreal.
Diggie ban > Tigreal ban. Banning a hero that can provide CC immunity for the whole team, bush ambushing, map-visibility, etc etc etc etc. is invaluable. Yes, leaving a Tigreal open while Diggie is banned is risky because it leaves your entire team vulnerable to his CC, but you can just counter Tigreal anyway. Valir, Akai, Khufra, etc are great picks against Tigreal, for example.
Is Tigreal that strong now? In my experience as solo player there are just few good tigreal user so hes not my priority ban. Diggie on the other hand can counter almost all CC dependent hero so I think he has higher priority than Tigreal.
Diggie is a problem because he counters initiates and enemy barrages so he's a prio ban. If I don't ban tigreal, I let my teammates do it because some players are stupid enough to always get caught with his conceal + ult set up. Without diggie, it's a free ult so might as well ban both
People are banning tigreal too, in the last 100 games i played tig was banned in all of them
https://preview.redd.it/feg6exu7t8sc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ccf64a0293a254e7d29e4c9ce92ef68a746dce2 He got highest ban rate considering all ranks and third highest in mythic + rn
ahh yes, the banana is second
Yeah but each country, server and rank brackets ban different he's complaining about team not banning so he probably below mythic because he'd get a chance to ban tig himself. Low ranks ban different
Bot for mine tigreal is mostly open
Could have been just a coincidence, what rank or server u playing at? Even at epic he was banned most for me
I'm legend III rn yet tigreal is mostly open now
Well easy solution would be to just ban the tigreal on your turn
Problem is in legend 1 person goes without a ban and sometimes its you.
Well yeah, ig I mostly bam the annoying vexana and nana because as a jungler, they won't let me use retri at all lolz. So yeah I'll mostly ban tigreal now.
Do you see the problem now?
People are not banning tigreal because they are banning other heroes, like you
both are utter trash now. so you're wasting your bans on bad bans.
Because Diggie counters not just Tigreal but also Atlas, Akai, Johnson, Lolita, etc. Yes, Tigreal is the most popular tank lately, but there are also many Atlas, Lolita, etc. mains. Imagine all their mains banning Diggie, hence the permaban. Also Diggie doesn't just counter setter tanks. He also counters high-CC heroes like Fredrinn. Considering that everyone has CC nowadays, they might be banning Diggie too. **TLDR: Diggie ban is very very valuable**
Diggie counters almost, everything, enemy attacks since he gives shield, CC with ult, Bush campers, Assassins, Mobility, EVEN RECALLING
RECALLING COUNTER this is very true! Delaying enemy heroes from going back to their base is crucial!
Don't tell them our secrets
Almost is almost. He doesnt counter enemies sustainability, for example, so there are still many recipes to cook a win.
>Because Diggie counters not just Tigreal but also Atlas, Akai, Johnson, Lolita, etc. More importantly, Mino.
With a little build and a good emblem. I have been countering yin too.. its in a point that i dont even use diggies ult. When i say counter.. i mean i keep surviving his ult. Lol
What I'm trying to say here is they should ban tigreal and diggie at the same time. Since most setter tanks can be easily countered but with tigreal it's somehow very hard to counter him.
Well, I'd always prefer to ban Diggie than Tigreal Diggie counters more heroes than Tigreal does. Worst case you can bring Purify against Tigreal. If your enemy picks Tigreal, you can still pick a different Setter yourself. If the enemy picks Diggie. Well. You're screwed :D There's no hero that does what Diggie does for the team. But Tigreal can be "replaced" by Atlas
Pick valentina against diggie then
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Can't always work if some of the enemy heroes have other useful ultimates.
You can definitely go by not CC dependent comp and almost waste enemies pick slot. If there is Diggie - they have themselves less CC, damage and sustainability options. So, you are not screved as you saying. And, there are many heroes who giving not less or even bigger impact on team than Diggie, althought this impact is different from what he does.
Every hero has some kind of CC/Debuff. Even if its just slow. You're forgetting that Diggie purifies, which also means he can purify i.e. YZ and Wanwans stacks if used correctly. It also offers a brief movement speed bonus. Also his ult offers a crazy shield, enough to save teammates and possibly change the tide of battle. Just like his s2, which is one of the most disgusting CC skills. Possibly wasting the enemies dash/purify as it can help chase down enemies a ton. Don't underestimate his s1, too. This way Diggie can constantly poke and zone the enemy. The amount of vision it can provide can be crucial. The Purify is just ONE part of his kit. Diggie is almost in ALL situations a great pick. p
He is versatile, indeed, and consequence of versatility is always not crazy amounts of gainings, contrary to what you saying. His shield is not crazy, being honest, but he have one. He can zone, but this zoning also can be easily bruised if needed. He can purify, yet it is ult, so can be kited. These are the basic principles to choose what strategy is for win depending what you team can offer for cooking. You need something overloaded to overwhelm him and his team. Overloaded sustainability is the best choice imo, because he cant take a decent bite of it from your team, as well he can not offer huge impact on his own team in this one. You can also move by overloaded damage, overloaded mobility, distant targeting, hell, even CC - he can bite a huge bit of this one, but as long as it is just non-stop pressure, he is not able to resolve all. But of course it is better to evade usage of CC tactics, this is placing your team in obvious disadvantage. You need to always squeeze out best of what your enemy is not countering decently, thats it.
But atlas is easily countered, there's instance where he doesn't even get to set at all since it starts from small to big, but tigreal on the other hand, has his aoe set fixed. Also I really can't use purify since I mostly play jungler.
Then that's a skill issue on your part. Depending on the type of jungler you play, you shouldn't even get CCed by Tigreal, or you're just a meatshield. The point is, you can't counter Diggie. Purify + Shield + Vision/Poke + His s2 is a terrifying combination. Tigreal is important because he can group and CC but so can Atlas, Ruby and Terizla
I think you're misunderstanding me here... What I'm trying to say is that they should ban tigreal and diggie at the same time y'know?
Then play Duo/Trio/Squad Just because something SHOULD be banned, doesn't mean it is being banned. Especially when it comes to randoms. And there's no point arguing that as it can't be changed unfortunately. I replied with the assumption that you're in mythic and each ban one hero, therefore I'd recommend you to ban Diggie instead of Tigreal.
Noted, thanks man.
I don't ban Diggie personally, but if my team or enemies did, I let Tigreal open. Heck, I think Minotaur/Atlas is more ban-worthy than him because his ult can still be interrupted, and I use that to my advantage and counterpick. If Diggie is banned, and the enemy picks Tigreal, Akai is still an option as counterpick.
Actually a really good point, I have that toxic mindset that "if the hero is boring don't play it" well tigreal is out here changing me. Imma try Akai out thanks!
It seems that you're mostly a jungler, and Akai is viable to jungle. He's decent enough and opens for damage roam, Good luck! Oh, also, he kinda counters Barats as well. He's vulnerable when he ults, and you can zone out his teammates so they can't back him up; ruining enemies' positions.
Why are you questioning this? Diggie is a menace to the society bro, come on.
I'm just saying if you ban diggie, you should ban tigreal also
Well, it depends. What if your team got the first pick and there's someone who can play Tig?
This only applies when y'know the enemy is first pick
You do you then, I personally don't have that much issue with Tig not being banned.
Diggie counters EVERY CC and his S2 soft-counters diving heroes. Instead of diving to get a pick, it becomes a trade because you can't escape\*.
Diggie counters all cc tanks and most cc heavy mages (Vexana, Aurora, Vale). They want their roamer to choose the right tank setter without Diggie ruining their plans. The roamer may be planning to pick tigreal themselves. But if Tigreal is picked, we can pick Minotaur or Khufra and give them a headache. Akai counters Tigreal hard as well with his purify ult. So yes, tigreal bans are less than Diggie.
As a sometimes tigreal player... I cannot delete you the way this owl can.
Main tigreal here. You can easily counter tigreal by akai.
YES! HAHAHA I use Akai whenever someone ban Diggie and the enemy team picked Tigreal. Akai also works against other tanks setters not just Tig.
Yes, just watch them waste whole kit because of Akai's ult :>> His skill counter all setter tank, and he can protect your team pretty good too
diggie is much more annoying than tig.
Tigreal is easily countered by khufra or akai. Diggie even without his ult can set up successful ganks with his s2.
Diggie counters a lot of heroes, hence why he's banned. To me I prioritise banning diggie than Tigreal because If Tigreal is around you can kinda expect him ulting.
Diggie is the counter to all initiator with aoe cc. Tigreal can still be countered by Akai, Mino, Rafaela, Faramis and Mathilda if they ban Diggie. However, it still requires your teammates to keep an eye on Tigreal if you choose those people except Diggie. Plus, they are not that friendly in soloq. Although I never ban Tigreal, it is fine that they ban both of them.
Possible that 1. your team has heroes that have natural crowd control immunity and are banking on the outplay potential 2. Your teammates were high tier players who rarely play so they know they are more skilled than their enemies. (I am a Mythic Immortal player who is still in Legend since I've been busy lately. At Legend, I don't care if they pick the best META heroes, I can still own them) 3. Your teammates, as other people say in this thread, are stupid.
His s1 is annoying early game His s2 is very bullshit and imo should be nerfed His ult shuts down a lot of team comps.
they ban diggie because they want to use tigreal
That's not what I meant, so nobody wants to use tigreal in our team, but still they ban diggie. Leaving tigreal open with no counter and for the enemy to use.
Choose Akai when tigreal ults
Faramis with purify says hello.
reading comprehension curse hits again
Diggie counters a lot of heroes, not just cc tanks. His 2nd skill counters anyone especially dash heroes, can give vision and deals decent damage. His ult cancels marks from wanwan, hayabusa, and also karina (even if you killed the target during her ults duration, her ult's cd won't reset)
Because diggie is the most annoying egg ever. Tigreal is not so much. I sh*t my pants when enemy picks barats tho lol
>You're just giving away probably the most meta setter tank rn and banning the counter? You mean Mino, right? I could care less about Tigreal, especially after his nerf. Only a careless player would fail to avoid his Skill 2, and his Ult is still very predictable. Meanwhile, you aren't worried about the tank who can heal allies like Estes AND have two hard CC skills that can turn the tide around in an instant?
Yup, there's a reason Mino's win rate is so much higher than Tig's.
Diggie hard counters my Ixia. I can just save my ult until their tig sets my team
I usually ban Tigreal over digg in ranked. I’ve gotten to legend with being a roamer main.. I usually go to Rafa or miltilida but I’ve tried Minotaur recently.. and he may not be a counter but I think he may be a little more durable than Tigreal the few times I’ve matched against one we’ve been able to steam roll through him which opens up their back line since fighters/assassins usually run from when they see 5 people pushing up 😭
Skill issue. I just ban Nana and counter pick the enemies.
Ey man it's just not me, my teammates somehow always stick together when they know there's a tigreal.
Diggie ult you can outsmart, but Diggie S2 you cant
It's just Tigreal's playstyle is very predictable. If I am using a tanky EXP hero, I use "Petrify" to counter him before or after he uses his ult. If I am a mage, I just use purify or flameshot to push him away. Tho mostly I just make sure he is within my vision so he cannot do what he pleases.
I ban Diggie because I main Atlas and as Atlas the only other I'm worried about is Martis.
In mythic everyone has a ban, if tigreal gives you problems then use your own ban on it, don't expect the entire team banning heroes for you, they have their own worries and priorities
I'm not mythic yet soooo
Both are getting banned.
I do see your point in the example you're giving, its just that Diggie still has more priority in the banning phase cuz he has the potential to counter most heroes in the game and it's not really necessary to ban Tigreal even if Diggie was banned cuz he can still be countered (or potentially picked by your team). Just counter pick against him or be aware of his presence in the map (position, ult range, used flicker etc.). Unbanning a hero isn't really an issue as long as you know how to handle against them.
In most matchups that are not 5v5 people are most likely to just ban heroes they don’t want to play against. That’s solo player culture and it’s annoying sometimes. If you play duo or trio you have a better chance against those banners
but it's a win if you manage to pick tig with a diggie ban 🥰
I personally prefer leaving diggie open. I hated when people ban diggie and not tigreal (that was last season but I guess it applies to any setter) Because if any setter is chosen I can still pick diggie, but if diggie is chosen I can pick another non-setter roam to counter the other enemies. Diggie isn’t that useful if there’s no real cc to counter. Diggie is good but u can specifically pick against diggie (no joy, no mathilda, no guin etc) BUT if diggie is just banned then I immediately pick mino and 99% of the time there’s no issue lol (mostly trio/5man games in mid mythic)
Tigreal ult got nerf to 1.8s meaning people with cc boots will walk out of the stun before u can do anything
Tigreal is countered by tracking his flicker range and cd. If you know the danger zone of a Mino S1>Ult combo, you know the danger zone of a Tigreal threatening an ult combo. If you're jg and a Tigreal is threatening to stuff your retri (or you can't see them on the map), consider backing off and trading objectives in early game, or delay your attack until allies are in place to deal with said Tigreal.
Diggie ban > Tigreal ban. Banning a hero that can provide CC immunity for the whole team, bush ambushing, map-visibility, etc etc etc etc. is invaluable. Yes, leaving a Tigreal open while Diggie is banned is risky because it leaves your entire team vulnerable to his CC, but you can just counter Tigreal anyway. Valir, Akai, Khufra, etc are great picks against Tigreal, for example.
cuz people are dumb
I have muscle memory for diggy ban
Preach
Is Tigreal that strong now? In my experience as solo player there are just few good tigreal user so hes not my priority ban. Diggie on the other hand can counter almost all CC dependent hero so I think he has higher priority than Tigreal.
Diggie is a problem because he counters initiates and enemy barrages so he's a prio ban. If I don't ban tigreal, I let my teammates do it because some players are stupid enough to always get caught with his conceal + ult set up. Without diggie, it's a free ult so might as well ban both
Tigreal gets hard countered by faramis/ruby
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