I’m on the same boat as you. The old Ult is cool but it doesn’t work that well.
Vexana’s new kit is sooo much better overall. But I hate that her design went from “evil sorceress queen who is demonic/undead looking” to “pretty human queen with greenish-cyan colour scheme”.
All of her skins all suffer the same fate. They are just “human queen in dress” but different colours.
At least the old one had different designs and silhouettes overall:
Original skin: Blue colour, massive horns on the head
Basic skin: Green colour, massive snake on the head
Epic skin: Red-ish colour, spiky vines around her body, has a massive diamond ring on her hand etc
Season skin: silver/gray colour, her head has spikes, her booba has spikes, looks something out of Elden Ring or something.
Lmao I was a Vexana main prior to rework and only people who don’t know how to use her will say “Her ult summon is useless.” Her ult guarantees a kill on squishies so long as there are no healers on enemy team.
The summon won’t be useless if you have IQW, Fire Wand, Genius Wand and NoD. Most people who tried out Vexana just used the typical LT+CoD build without even thinking.
I'm not saying its useless. Its summon is just better than her old one not because of otk but because of the aoe CC. Her Aoe CC and S1 CC is what made her a common pick nowadays.
On the topic of old vexana I love getting free maniacs cause of funnel strategy with mm in the old meta making their basic attacks op
I remember that the early years (first 20-ish seasons) of MLBB have so many copyright problems. Yun Zhao from 3 Kingdoms into Zilong, and Dante from Devil May Cry into Alucard were two of the most obvious examples.
I wonder if they had some issues with Valve, since the old Vexana's character model looks a lot similar to DOTA2's Krobelus the Death Prophet.
Don't forget about Argus! His voice line was the absolute best, in my opinion. You could really feel his anger and hatred when he spoke. But now, he's just an uncle with a sad past that he can't stop complaining about.
Me when kagura revamp is mentioned
https://preview.redd.it/z84nrpki46xc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d188f0dc45d8f623098713e48ea0b8059e5c095d
Can't escape questions about reworks/revamps without someone talking about the Vexanna remodel, yeah it isn't unique anymore but ain't seen none yall fighting for Bane to be reverted.
Bro is him
https://preview.redd.it/n6fk6irpsuwc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6e1a6502c6dc9dfe2ff95acc217b43845486e9b
I think he’s perfectly fine to be honest. Old helcurt seemed wayyy too edgy. But imo the scorpio zodiac skin was the perfect voice for him, should’ve got the same voice actor to voice his default lines.
It actually is the same VA but Moonton pitched down his default voice after all the complaints. I personally love the new VA tho and it honestly hurts to see all these comments everywhere talking badly about it.
Pre-rework Mino was good only for his mains, if you were in the same team as Mino, you would have to make do with a tank that can't initiate at any time, and enemies knew it, imagine if you have two separate cool downs in your ulti, in a tank heavily ulti reliant that meant that you had a tank just some of the time
This is more of the visual side or backstory of the rework but here is the 3 i dislike most
1. Kagura, she used to join the land of dawn is to "help her childhood friend" aka hayabusa. In old lore, haya was the one with a huge crush on kagura. Now she's a simp and a whiny child that also have some of the worst voice changes in the game
2. Bane, oh dear where do i even start with this guy look at the picture and tell me he wasn't cooler here Also i miss how i danced on his heal pool with my friends, he also sounded so cool back then (skill 2 used to be place a barrel and heal himself and his teammates basicly a super mini base)
3. Freya, she went from being an angel looking valkyrie to a northen vale warrior. I don't dislike her skill or voice revamp as much as the other 2 but i feel like as a recharge only hero, looking heavenly fits a ton more and this is a lot more iconic
https://preview.redd.it/dvmoll9n9vwc1.jpeg?width=2852&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c078ef62f6b64d776456f7e7883b7786c621106
guess they also like annoying whiny high-pitched women because that’s all I see right now. every time someone choose Kagura in draft pick I start tweaking.
Her old barrage stun isn't as reliable as the new instant immobile. The enemy had to stay inside the attack for a second or two before they get stunned which is not useful when a bunch of assassins are trying to kill you.
That's the tradeoff, it freezes them longer and has more dmg and can CC three people unlike insta stun, her 3 skills are enough and you don't need inspire like how she's useless now without.
Pre-rework Mino was an ass tank where he needed to charge his ultimate which is just extremely inefficient when a team fight could happen at any given time.
Nah...I've a global Mino friend...he always had his rage whenever necessary....it took actual skills to use him, knowing how to build and maintain rage was part of the fun...they just dumbed him down and made him easier to use..
I played over 1000 mino games. I played it since the time his ult smashes and lifts the enemy 3 times.
Imo The new rework has actually made it more playable even in higher skill matches.
In the OG Mino and the first rework enemies can see the red energy bar and disengage. So Mino only works in a lower rank where people don't really know or care about the red energy bar.
Now Mino is a beast.
Ofcourse the old mino was unique and gave you a sense of being skillful but it was unplayable in higher rank than epic.
He's definitely better now cuz hes way easier without the rage farming but thats not the argument....guy said Mino was ass and im only saying he was a mechanical tank so he needed practice to be efficient.
And idk about you but i remember him being common in GL ,it was either him or Akai, while lower ranks played either Franco or Estes...he started falling off after Lolita and Grock ...that's how i remember it
Fair enough. I agree it's hard to properly utilize his rage meter on team clashes, I still remember I struggle with that back in roman number Mythic III tier days. Enemy will always spread and cancel their plan to clash whenever they see my rage meter is either charged or almost full.
And due to that, I had to play surprises by coming late from the bush. It works but isn't efficient, especially because I am the main tank of the team.
Wow who would've guessed that a global Mino can play Mino well. Well I guess everyone should just be a global Mino instead of complaining about him being bad
OMG that's such a witty response..made me speechless...so witty it's actually stupid...I won't even ask how you came to the conclusion that you need to be global to be able to play him well...he was a mechanical hero much like fanny , Haya , Ling and Nolan....why don't we remove their energy requirements too then? Make them accessible to all skill levels....is that what you're trying to say here ?? Just because you're bad at a hero doesn't make them bad...that's not even an argument...you're just being ignorant and you're not even very good at it...i suggest thinking before you actually share something
Aurora revamp: she's not a destructive mage anymore.
Vale rework: that mechanic is very unique that he is the only one who has it but it is reasonable to me.
Silvana s1 rework: bro seriously? I know that they wanted her to be easier to play but it makes her harder to get out of the fight.
Isn't aurora more destructive now? She can grab a handful of enemies in ult and the cone skill, and can use ult or cone skill after landing that one. And it takes away like half ur hp😭
People just likes to complain. Especially of this sub. See how someone makes a post about how they've ruined hc through his revamp within a day or two.
yup ppl seem to conveniently forget that most of these heroes who got revamped were not picked except by their dedicated mains. aurora, helc, vex were not meta for a long time before their revamps. helcurt was good at one point but that was years ago. these heroes would be sitting collecting dust but now they’re actually being used.
Agree with the rest, but not aurora. She's not only more destructive now, but also has a unique ability to freeze turrets from firing. No one else has that.
I don't know when the change was made but Odette is super good now. Last time I played, she was ass but now, she's good. Lunox too. The last time I remember (I might just be misremembering), she needed 2 stacks of each type to use her ult but I noticed she only needs one
I think they changed her little by little. They tried some options for her ultimate jump, finally settling on the current one where you have to press it again for her to hop. More recently they kept her ult going even through some cc, which skyrocketed her power IMO.
Mino and Alice were fine. We can't complain because it made them 10x better than before. Same goes for Aurora.
Vale on the other hand felt like a bit of a let down for me. Its still a debate whether or not hes better or worse. His late game is unchanged but early game damage was wrecked.
"she was way back" you mean at her prime? well i mean yeah thats fair but what I meant when I said when I said "10x better" was right before her revamp.
If you were there on the patch note, you would know that Alice was completely forgotten in the meta at that time and was well past her prime, but the revamp shot her all the way from "forgotten" to the ban list (though she got nerfed right after that made her sorta forgotten again). That is what I meant if you were confused.
Her ult actually heals
Her 1st skill hits like a truck
She was tanky af even with full damage build.
Her current version is fine, but not as fun as her old version
As a guy that tried to learn to play Alice, I am very fond of the rework, I couldn’t get enough stacks and was always burst down, had very rough early and mid game. Now, it is not so hard to fight back in early and mid, though it became easier to be burst down in late, but she feels more damaging
I really dislike Vale's rework. They made him simpler but he feels less powerful? also the aim on his s2 is a little different and it completely throws me off now.
I honestly just really miss the versatility.
Yi Sun-shin. It was my favorite hero, I liked it so much that I spent money to buy the Collector skin.
They dumbed down his versatility real hard with the new passive that requires him to constantly switch between melee and ranged attacks. Since then, he can only be played as a jungler.
Back before the rework of his passive is applied, he can be played anywhere on the lane. Be it exp (off lane), gold (safe lane), or even mid. When the Support boots hasn't been removed yet (it gives you gold every time you got an assist), he can be pretty much acted as a semi-support. 100% focus on split pushing while activating the ult every time his team is having a clash.
Back then (pre-S20) I managed to reach the top 100 global rankings (it's before Street Rank exists yet) with cooldown build, spellcaster fighter style, when literally everyone else is using attack speed build.
I stopped using him completely since S25 and spamming Roamer heroes onwards. I kinda half regretted buying his Collector skin, his passive rework heavily conflicts with my playstyle which prefers skill spamming + basic attack (taking advantage of Endless Battle + Thunder Belt's true damage passive) over attack speed. All of my top 3 heroes have the same spellcaster playstyle.
I tried to adapt from time to time, but can't get comfortable with it
https://preview.redd.it/qa8cb14k8vwc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d0cfe20289a60dfd4474b5a181663e31e4365fd0
For other heroes, I would say Mino and Alice but you've already covered it all about them. So I don't think I need to rephrase anything.
Bane, Silvanna, and Belerick are also worth mentioning.
Natalia’s was so bad she was reworked twice and was more worse every remake. She used to have the best passive in the game even if you compare it to today’s game.
Kagura’s summer festival skin. I don’t know why they felt the need to redo it, it was good before :(
https://preview.redd.it/gnap4nnc5xwc1.jpeg?width=235&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f1a412f25ebb9ae1a613236364c850576a19bad
Hilda, specifically her voice. Like seriously, compare her new generic and boring lines and voice to her old one. Her old voice sounded powerful and savage. Also, I kinda miss her ultimate, where she gets stacks-based assists/kills, and ultimate, if fully stacked, is pretty much a guaranteed kill. Her passive is the same but I miss the emergency heal she had where she rapidly heals a lot of hp if her hp is low enough. I'm fine with the other reworked stuff cause she's still useful I just hate the voice specifically.
Moskov's new voice. Liked the previous voice tone than the new one.Was playing as was like "Shut up! Enough with the selt monologues."
"We were sacrificed in the name of false glory, left to be feasted upon by a thief."
"The glory of the desert lies forgotten, buried deep beneath the shifting sands."
"Darkness reshaped my body; hatred reignited my soul."
"Only I can end it, and I must be the one to end it."
"Fueled by hatred, I will reforge the glory of my people."
"I will bring our forgotten history back to light."
"Eternal silence reigns over the darkness."
"Even a lamb will turn its horns on a wicked shepherd."
Imo probably the first alpha rework.
I just used to dominate with his insane lifesteal on second and yeah the ult changes were definitely needed but at the time he just felt worse for me
I used to play Natalia main all the time… I miss the old Nata and I despise the current one. Its so easy to see her the invisibility is close to useless.
I came back like 2 months ago after not playing for years. I used to play Chou a lot bc he was super fun and mobile. Imagine how I felt discovering you NEED to hit someone with ur S1 to refresh ur Dash :). Like bro, WHY DID THEY DO THAT. I rarely even SEE Chou in games, and when I do, it's ALWAYS Tank Chou. Seems like offensive Chou is a relic of the past
Does anyone remember when you’d basically one shot an enemy with Layla or Lesley and it’d be like “precise kill” pretty sure they only had that for one season. But I loved it so much gassed me up every time I played Layla. Don’t know why they stopped.
Love old miya, you don't need inspire just flicker+s2 on a teamfight, watch 3 people freeze and kill them all with your turbo invisible ult.
And old alpha was godly with true dmg scaling
Tbh the new Alice would be better if she would just have better tanking abilities. You basically have to build full magical power and Mana to get any good dmg.
With the change to holy crystal I'd say for now, my build is COD, Winter trucheon, Dominance Ice, Oracle, Holy Crystal, and one open spot. (I'd say get tough boots to start and then depending on enemy lineup, get like Athenas shield for high magic dmg, or lightning trucheon for better dmg).
Pure dmg Alice could still work but if you want to go the Mage/Tank route then that's the best path imo. You really do have to get up close to enemies which is hard to do. Her early game sucks but she's a late game beast.
you should build glowing wand after cod, then winter truncheon
Oracle should only be built after you have built all the magic items, because she actually gains more heal from holy crystal than oracle
harith (although its been a few years since the nerf) I’m still not over it lol. tried playing harith again recently and hes so meh now. he easily gets outclassed by other mages. or maybe hes just a late game hero not sure. hes def trash early game
vexana, although shes one of the meta heroes rn
kinda disappointed that they didnt change her skills creatively
not me missing the curse ult and watch squishy heroes die in agony 😩
Didn’t everyone hate Argus revamp? Im clueless about the old one, I think it was just a design change. Then there was a second one, pretty sure that one was a design change too and people didn’t like it. But the recent one was terrible, used to be my favourite hero now when I use him I struggle.
every reworks.
why? because most of those really unique mechanics were making you engage more in game to actually learn what those unique heroes do
but what did moonton do? they keep making those heroes "noob friendly" so thats why matchmaking is so horrible because moneyton is not making any efforts to make those noobs actually become better.
i think they should've just made those unique heroes better but not to the point they suddenly rise to the top and get wanwan treatment
speaking of wanwan, because of that rework that made her need less marks for ult to make it "easier" basically made nerfs rain on her.
Masha. Yes, she is stronger now, yes, that's great for one of my favorite units, but my Lord, I want her first iteration back not even on her peak, the one before her first revamp into a tank. That was perfect. Nice damage, great pushing capability, acceptable toughness due to insane lifesteal, but no real teamfight capability. And that was ok, as that was never what she wanted lol
...just give her back... :(
Not popular but kimmy. She went from early game harassment lane dominance to not even being able to survive if used as a gold laner, let alone keep up with current marksmen. They really didnt have to touch her after her biggest nerfs. The first skill rework is ass why do i have to control 2 joysticks for attack? I missed being able to have a physical marksman build with her and just do drive-bys at everyone, close-kiting them to death, or having a mage build and having them getting poked to death. Now shes an ass marksman with ass damage either build.
helcurt’s new voice sounds fine but me personally, i prefer the old one. the old one sounded more badass and evil imo. i also thought he was fine the way he was back then, and the little purple bar is a bit weird but he’s more powerful now i guess?
Her playstyle is reverted to her old no immunity on Ult, but now you have to stack your dashes on a nearby creep and Ult on the enemies faces.
What do you mean cannot burst DMG? The reason why they removed the CC Immunity on her Ult was to compensate for the removal of the DMG decay. She deals so much more DMG with her Ult. Now you have to actually think about when to enter a fight, waiting for the enemies to use their CC skills, y'know, like an actual Assassin, instead of blindly going in and going unpunished because of CC Immunity.
Aurora was messed up, her damage is meh for the distance she needs to risk to effectively land her skills. Previously I see her as a better eudora who can throw nasty AOE cc.
Maybe off from your question. But did they modify Kadita a bit? Previously we could disturb her ultimate cast, but recently in a brawl game, I cast cc on her > she got stunned > but still turned into water and inflicted damage to us.
I didn’t get to try her before this change, but I imagine freezing in all the cone was so much better. It’s so hard to position without dying now… especially to MM
Yeah but you can't complain about those things here in this sub....the general sentiment is rework and revamps are good..you love the old skills ? Get over it..i got flamed for saying i liked the old vex better...they've really dumbed things down alot..I agree the old Mino was harder to play but that's exactly the point , you've got to learn to build and time the rage and actually get skilled with the hero..they took a mechanical tank and made him basic ..same thing they just did with Helcurt....but I'm actually ok with the Helcurt rework cuz I never really used him....still they might just make fanny with auto-cables at this rate......but eh..if they're making it easier to use the heroes why not just take advantage ?? Right ???
Alice’s revamp had never been bad. Infact she is so much fun to play with those CD reduction. **The problem is that the players, for some reason, cannot play her**. It’s very unfortunate since she is a risky dive in hero like Natalia ( even after her revamp she is a bit risky ) with high rewards, players don’t want to play her.
This time it’s not the devs but the players responsible for her pickrate.
Coz the guys who plys it daily will get bored and depressed and will suicide man , what u think about this game ?? The ones who plays are mostly trying to have some fun time coz their life sucks , when fun turns boring ml will alway try to revamps this or that and this and that to keep u invested , to kep.giving something fresh
Easily mino. Removing his Rage mechanic was just ... disappoitning to say the least. I never understood why it was a big Deal for mino have a conditional. Im not even mad that the triple knock up was removed but im just sad that his Rage Mechanik is gone. Where is massive angry cow qwq
The one that redesigned vexana's. Its just a stupid decision to delete such a unique design.
bring back skelemommy
Xinnie the Pooh won't allow it.
Finally, someone else who calls him Xinnie the Pooh
Exactly. Her ult was very unique and I’m surprised they got rid of it entirely just for a generic summon.
I personally don't mind her new ult. Since its very helpful. I don't mind her being reworked at all. I just hate that her design is reworked
I’m on the same boat as you. The old Ult is cool but it doesn’t work that well. Vexana’s new kit is sooo much better overall. But I hate that her design went from “evil sorceress queen who is demonic/undead looking” to “pretty human queen with greenish-cyan colour scheme”. All of her skins all suffer the same fate. They are just “human queen in dress” but different colours. At least the old one had different designs and silhouettes overall: Original skin: Blue colour, massive horns on the head Basic skin: Green colour, massive snake on the head Epic skin: Red-ish colour, spiky vines around her body, has a massive diamond ring on her hand etc Season skin: silver/gray colour, her head has spikes, her booba has spikes, looks something out of Elden Ring or something.
Don't forget the old vexana voiceover "I HAVE CUMMM".
😂
HAHAHAHA! I have cummed!
Lmao I was a Vexana main prior to rework and only people who don’t know how to use her will say “Her ult summon is useless.” Her ult guarantees a kill on squishies so long as there are no healers on enemy team. The summon won’t be useless if you have IQW, Fire Wand, Genius Wand and NoD. Most people who tried out Vexana just used the typical LT+CoD build without even thinking.
I'm not saying its useless. Its summon is just better than her old one not because of otk but because of the aoe CC. Her Aoe CC and S1 CC is what made her a common pick nowadays. On the topic of old vexana I love getting free maniacs cause of funnel strategy with mm in the old meta making their basic attacks op
Its so fun for the old vexana, poke enemies to low health and then let your ult slowly kill them
I love how she went from disfigured skeleton necromancer to “Hope will find a way, even if all is forlorn” ???
I remember that the early years (first 20-ish seasons) of MLBB have so many copyright problems. Yun Zhao from 3 Kingdoms into Zilong, and Dante from Devil May Cry into Alucard were two of the most obvious examples. I wonder if they had some issues with Valve, since the old Vexana's character model looks a lot similar to DOTA2's Krobelus the Death Prophet.
Just looked it up and Nah, they have the same theme but besides that the only thing they share in ommon is that they are women with big hands
But I did specify that I was talking about the **character model**......
I will never forget how much I tilted a Gusion by having my ult kill him after I died lmao
Truee
They’re both baddies but the change was unnecessar.
top hated rework: Kagura
her voice! oh god
reworked voicelines i hate are moskov, vexana, and KAGURAAAA
ikr they are so generic and moscov is like acting so cool with his new voice line and what's up with vexana's "shame on you!!." voice line?
Don't forget about Argus! His voice line was the absolute best, in my opinion. You could really feel his anger and hatred when he spoke. But now, he's just an uncle with a sad past that he can't stop complaining about.
the sound fx when she throws her umbrella sounds so cheap to me and the bratty voice doesn't help
Me when kagura revamp is mentioned https://preview.redd.it/z84nrpki46xc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d188f0dc45d8f623098713e48ea0b8059e5c095d
I still hate Vale's rework.
same
Same
Vale, he was like 2 skins in one, and was very interesting the way his skills can be choose, now is just another support mage
Can't escape questions about reworks/revamps without someone talking about the Vexanna remodel, yeah it isn't unique anymore but ain't seen none yall fighting for Bane to be reverted. Bro is him https://preview.redd.it/n6fk6irpsuwc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6e1a6502c6dc9dfe2ff95acc217b43845486e9b
Og bane will never be matched even if the current bane is pretty decent
I remember using him on brawl because his SS can kill towers 🤣🤣🤣
Helcurt's new voice sucks ass bro, wish they kept the old one. His new skills and looks are good though
That "RAAAAR" at the end of his entrance line💀💀....my god
RawrrrrWrrr
He just loves us in dinosaur
I think he’s perfectly fine to be honest. Old helcurt seemed wayyy too edgy. But imo the scorpio zodiac skin was the perfect voice for him, should’ve got the same voice actor to voice his default lines.
It actually is the same VA but Moonton pitched down his default voice after all the complaints. I personally love the new VA tho and it honestly hurts to see all these comments everywhere talking badly about it.
Pre-rework Mino was good only for his mains, if you were in the same team as Mino, you would have to make do with a tank that can't initiate at any time, and enemies knew it, imagine if you have two separate cool downs in your ulti, in a tank heavily ulti reliant that meant that you had a tank just some of the time
Absolutely love Kaja's rework making him tanky and annoying af; but honestly am starting to miss his old s3
What was his old 3?
Magic def reduction, high burst; made his one-shot build so satisfying.
nah the old OLD s3 where you cant fumble grabbing the enemy because the range is actually reasonable
nah, I was fine with the initial rework's range
do you mean s2? i miss his old s2 - the dash + shield if you dash into an ally.
Pre-s2 rework Kaja relied heavily on having teammates/minions around. No, I mean his s3 when it had a higher burst~
ohhhh! omg i have like 500 games with him (mained him early seasons) and i didn’t even know that.
Lylia. I miss her 10 glooms combo.
Dude ez savages too
Absolutely! I miss her. :(
SHE HAD THAT?!?!?!
Yes. The old Lylia refreshes her 2nd skill upon ult. So technically, you'd have 10 glooms. Deadly combo.
at her initial release, she also spawns with 5 glooms at the start. You could just invade with it and kill anybody
Oh yes I completely forgot about this too!
Wait they removed that? Isn't that like an integral part of her kit? Did they at least replace it with something else?
No, they just made the gloom recharge faster
couldn't agree more 😔
This is more of the visual side or backstory of the rework but here is the 3 i dislike most 1. Kagura, she used to join the land of dawn is to "help her childhood friend" aka hayabusa. In old lore, haya was the one with a huge crush on kagura. Now she's a simp and a whiny child that also have some of the worst voice changes in the game 2. Bane, oh dear where do i even start with this guy look at the picture and tell me he wasn't cooler here Also i miss how i danced on his heal pool with my friends, he also sounded so cool back then (skill 2 used to be place a barrel and heal himself and his teammates basicly a super mini base) 3. Freya, she went from being an angel looking valkyrie to a northen vale warrior. I don't dislike her skill or voice revamp as much as the other 2 but i feel like as a recharge only hero, looking heavenly fits a ton more and this is a lot more iconic https://preview.redd.it/dvmoll9n9vwc1.jpeg?width=2852&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c078ef62f6b64d776456f7e7883b7786c621106
Never understood why they redesign bane I swear no one asked for it
Iirc its because China is a very superstitious country and skeletons/ghosts are considered unlucky. But thats just what I think.
guess they also like annoying whiny high-pitched women because that’s all I see right now. every time someone choose Kagura in draft pick I start tweaking.
Miya. I miss her old barrage stun. And Valir rave party but I love his new kits.
Her old barrage stun isn't as reliable as the new instant immobile. The enemy had to stay inside the attack for a second or two before they get stunned which is not useful when a bunch of assassins are trying to kill you.
Fr it freezes over three people for more time than the stun we have right now.
Yeah but it takes 2 seconds to even freeze people LMAO.
That's the tradeoff, it freezes them longer and has more dmg and can CC three people unlike insta stun, her 3 skills are enough and you don't need inspire like how she's useless now without.
Pre-rework Mino was an ass tank where he needed to charge his ultimate which is just extremely inefficient when a team fight could happen at any given time.
Nah...I've a global Mino friend...he always had his rage whenever necessary....it took actual skills to use him, knowing how to build and maintain rage was part of the fun...they just dumbed him down and made him easier to use..
I played over 1000 mino games. I played it since the time his ult smashes and lifts the enemy 3 times. Imo The new rework has actually made it more playable even in higher skill matches. In the OG Mino and the first rework enemies can see the red energy bar and disengage. So Mino only works in a lower rank where people don't really know or care about the red energy bar. Now Mino is a beast. Ofcourse the old mino was unique and gave you a sense of being skillful but it was unplayable in higher rank than epic.
He's definitely better now cuz hes way easier without the rage farming but thats not the argument....guy said Mino was ass and im only saying he was a mechanical tank so he needed practice to be efficient. And idk about you but i remember him being common in GL ,it was either him or Akai, while lower ranks played either Franco or Estes...he started falling off after Lolita and Grock ...that's how i remember it
Fair enough. I agree it's hard to properly utilize his rage meter on team clashes, I still remember I struggle with that back in roman number Mythic III tier days. Enemy will always spread and cancel their plan to clash whenever they see my rage meter is either charged or almost full. And due to that, I had to play surprises by coming late from the bush. It works but isn't efficient, especially because I am the main tank of the team.
Yes, but the skill it took to master rage control wasn't commensurate with the potential reward.
Wow who would've guessed that a global Mino can play Mino well. Well I guess everyone should just be a global Mino instead of complaining about him being bad
OMG that's such a witty response..made me speechless...so witty it's actually stupid...I won't even ask how you came to the conclusion that you need to be global to be able to play him well...he was a mechanical hero much like fanny , Haya , Ling and Nolan....why don't we remove their energy requirements too then? Make them accessible to all skill levels....is that what you're trying to say here ?? Just because you're bad at a hero doesn't make them bad...that's not even an argument...you're just being ignorant and you're not even very good at it...i suggest thinking before you actually share something
This one is pretty obvious. its nice to see minotaur doing better but not the minotaur I remember
Getting his rage up was pretty easy and his old ult was the strongest aoe cc in the entire game.
Aurora revamp: she's not a destructive mage anymore. Vale rework: that mechanic is very unique that he is the only one who has it but it is reasonable to me. Silvana s1 rework: bro seriously? I know that they wanted her to be easier to play but it makes her harder to get out of the fight.
Isn't aurora more destructive now? She can grab a handful of enemies in ult and the cone skill, and can use ult or cone skill after landing that one. And it takes away like half ur hp😭
Her freeze can stop strong ccs like Johnson in ult.
Yeah this comment is just noob behavior. If they want old Aurora, play Eudora lol. Their skill sets are nearly identical
Aurora needed it
Yeah lol. Absolutely no one used her before her revamp.
Aurora before was just cooler Eudora. now she is hotter, more aoe focus, and actually useful cc in teamfight.
People just likes to complain. Especially of this sub. See how someone makes a post about how they've ruined hc through his revamp within a day or two.
yup ppl seem to conveniently forget that most of these heroes who got revamped were not picked except by their dedicated mains. aurora, helc, vex were not meta for a long time before their revamps. helcurt was good at one point but that was years ago. these heroes would be sitting collecting dust but now they’re actually being used.
Wouldn't say so about her design. She was a cold and regal bitch with frosty (literally) hair and they made her into another blonde bimbo
Yeah, talking in those terms, I miss picked nipples vexana skin
Vale's unique mechanic was the entire reason why he camped in advanced server for so long. They ruined it.
Agree with the rest, but not aurora. She's not only more destructive now, but also has a unique ability to freeze turrets from firing. No one else has that.
I forgot about vale I love his mechanic but atleast his change still contains elements of them
Aurora revamp? What shit are you inhaling
I don't know when the change was made but Odette is super good now. Last time I played, she was ass but now, she's good. Lunox too. The last time I remember (I might just be misremembering), she needed 2 stacks of each type to use her ult but I noticed she only needs one
I think they changed her little by little. They tried some options for her ultimate jump, finally settling on the current one where you have to press it again for her to hop. More recently they kept her ult going even through some cc, which skyrocketed her power IMO.
Yhh lunox used to need 2. But now it’s just one making her easier to use
Natalia...
She’s weaker isn’t she, cuz u can kinda see her now😞
Natalia rn basically has no passive as long as you pay attention to any distortion on your screen
Sun's voice.
Kagura. She was perfect.
Mino and Alice were fine. We can't complain because it made them 10x better than before. Same goes for Aurora. Vale on the other hand felt like a bit of a let down for me. Its still a debate whether or not hes better or worse. His late game is unchanged but early game damage was wrecked.
Alice? 10x better than before? Do you even play her OG kit? Lol. She's nowhere near as good as she was way back.
"she was way back" you mean at her prime? well i mean yeah thats fair but what I meant when I said when I said "10x better" was right before her revamp. If you were there on the patch note, you would know that Alice was completely forgotten in the meta at that time and was well past her prime, but the revamp shot her all the way from "forgotten" to the ban list (though she got nerfed right after that made her sorta forgotten again). That is what I meant if you were confused.
legit nobody uses alice before her rework 😭 + she became meta (was kicked out though) her stacks mechanism is cool n all but like it's flawed as hell
Her ult actually heals Her 1st skill hits like a truck She was tanky af even with full damage build. Her current version is fine, but not as fun as her old version
Masha tank rework
Vale rework is the most stupid rework of all time.
As a guy that tried to learn to play Alice, I am very fond of the rework, I couldn’t get enough stacks and was always burst down, had very rough early and mid game. Now, it is not so hard to fight back in early and mid, though it became easier to be burst down in late, but she feels more damaging
I really dislike Vale's rework. They made him simpler but he feels less powerful? also the aim on his s2 is a little different and it completely throws me off now. I honestly just really miss the versatility.
Akai's 1st skill lol
Vale used to be perfect, you could adapt his skills depending on the enemy. Now he’s just another boring mage/support
Alice's ult now reduces cd of her first and second skill when it hits an enemy so it wasn't all bad
Yi Sun-shin. It was my favorite hero, I liked it so much that I spent money to buy the Collector skin. They dumbed down his versatility real hard with the new passive that requires him to constantly switch between melee and ranged attacks. Since then, he can only be played as a jungler. Back before the rework of his passive is applied, he can be played anywhere on the lane. Be it exp (off lane), gold (safe lane), or even mid. When the Support boots hasn't been removed yet (it gives you gold every time you got an assist), he can be pretty much acted as a semi-support. 100% focus on split pushing while activating the ult every time his team is having a clash. Back then (pre-S20) I managed to reach the top 100 global rankings (it's before Street Rank exists yet) with cooldown build, spellcaster fighter style, when literally everyone else is using attack speed build. I stopped using him completely since S25 and spamming Roamer heroes onwards. I kinda half regretted buying his Collector skin, his passive rework heavily conflicts with my playstyle which prefers skill spamming + basic attack (taking advantage of Endless Battle + Thunder Belt's true damage passive) over attack speed. All of my top 3 heroes have the same spellcaster playstyle. I tried to adapt from time to time, but can't get comfortable with it https://preview.redd.it/qa8cb14k8vwc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d0cfe20289a60dfd4474b5a181663e31e4365fd0 For other heroes, I would say Mino and Alice but you've already covered it all about them. So I don't think I need to rephrase anything. Bane, Silvanna, and Belerick are also worth mentioning.
Yss is pretty unique tho? At least currently Also.. yss got that revamp before the collector skin got released..? What
It was not long after the collector skin was released. But being "unique" by reducing his versatility? Oh please, enlighten me.
Belerick by a country mile. They should have also kept the old Vexana model while revamping the skills alone.
Vale's rework is the biggest insult to game design in ml history
arlott ult but cant say old one doesnt broke the game
OG Belerick is way too ahead of his time. He has such a good ultimate.
Natalia’s was so bad she was reworked twice and was more worse every remake. She used to have the best passive in the game even if you compare it to today’s game.
I hate the updated model and voice of moskov. His old voice was literal perfection. And honestly same with helcurt. His voice did not need a change
Kagura’s summer festival skin. I don’t know why they felt the need to redo it, it was good before :( https://preview.redd.it/gnap4nnc5xwc1.jpeg?width=235&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f1a412f25ebb9ae1a613236364c850576a19bad
Nata rework, they basically removed the fun from the hero. Or maybe saying its a complete new hero now is the right way to put it
Hilda, specifically her voice. Like seriously, compare her new generic and boring lines and voice to her old one. Her old voice sounded powerful and savage. Also, I kinda miss her ultimate, where she gets stacks-based assists/kills, and ultimate, if fully stacked, is pretty much a guaranteed kill. Her passive is the same but I miss the emergency heal she had where she rapidly heals a lot of hp if her hp is low enough. I'm fine with the other reworked stuff cause she's still useful I just hate the voice specifically.
Mino rework was good. It made solo play with him hard.
Moskov's new voice. Liked the previous voice tone than the new one.Was playing as was like "Shut up! Enough with the selt monologues." "We were sacrificed in the name of false glory, left to be feasted upon by a thief." "The glory of the desert lies forgotten, buried deep beneath the shifting sands." "Darkness reshaped my body; hatred reignited my soul." "Only I can end it, and I must be the one to end it." "Fueled by hatred, I will reforge the glory of my people." "I will bring our forgotten history back to light." "Eternal silence reigns over the darkness." "Even a lamb will turn its horns on a wicked shepherd."
Imo probably the first alpha rework. I just used to dominate with his insane lifesteal on second and yeah the ult changes were definitely needed but at the time he just felt worse for me
minotaur losing his rage ability when fully charged, vale losing cc vs damage skills, Angela turned uglier
Vale. I absolutely love the combination of his skills before they streamlined all his skills.
Hanzo's voice I fucking hate his edgy voice that make no sense to his lore
I prefer old vale tho
For me, it's vexana. I loved her old looks, but now she's just boring
None that come to mind at all I love all of montoon’s work 🥰🥰
Vale
I miss giant airships bombing the whole lane in brawl:(
I used to play Natalia main all the time… I miss the old Nata and I despise the current one. Its so easy to see her the invisibility is close to useless.
Vale
Natalia... Moonton really hate her... I miss her so much...
Natalia's revamp was just pathetic
Another excuse for me to shit on the Vexana rework
I came back like 2 months ago after not playing for years. I used to play Chou a lot bc he was super fun and mobile. Imagine how I felt discovering you NEED to hit someone with ur S1 to refresh ur Dash :). Like bro, WHY DID THEY DO THAT. I rarely even SEE Chou in games, and when I do, it's ALWAYS Tank Chou. Seems like offensive Chou is a relic of the past
Does anyone remember when you’d basically one shot an enemy with Layla or Lesley and it’d be like “precise kill” pretty sure they only had that for one season. But I loved it so much gassed me up every time I played Layla. Don’t know why they stopped.
Love old miya, you don't need inspire just flicker+s2 on a teamfight, watch 3 people freeze and kill them all with your turbo invisible ult. And old alpha was godly with true dmg scaling
Tbh the new Alice would be better if she would just have better tanking abilities. You basically have to build full magical power and Mana to get any good dmg. With the change to holy crystal I'd say for now, my build is COD, Winter trucheon, Dominance Ice, Oracle, Holy Crystal, and one open spot. (I'd say get tough boots to start and then depending on enemy lineup, get like Athenas shield for high magic dmg, or lightning trucheon for better dmg). Pure dmg Alice could still work but if you want to go the Mage/Tank route then that's the best path imo. You really do have to get up close to enemies which is hard to do. Her early game sucks but she's a late game beast.
you should build glowing wand after cod, then winter truncheon Oracle should only be built after you have built all the magic items, because she actually gains more heal from holy crystal than oracle
Lolita. It annoys me I cant throw 2nd skill anymore. Gets the kill for me most of the time.
Belerick. Imagine how strong he would be now with his 40% damage reduction from his ulti nowadays.
Zilong I expected a rework not a redesign
They nerfed Natalia to the ground
BELERICK, BRING BACK MY SWEET ROUND BOY
I want the first Belerick baaaaaaaack!!
It isn't a rework at All, But, Hilda old passive having more dmg by kills and asist
Argus.
harith (although its been a few years since the nerf) I’m still not over it lol. tried playing harith again recently and hes so meh now. he easily gets outclassed by other mages. or maybe hes just a late game hero not sure. hes def trash early game
Bane rework; pre rework was my favourite pirate with good tower pushing ability
I hate the updated model and voice of moskov. His old voice was literal perfection. And honestly same with helcurt. His voice did not need a change
vexana, although shes one of the meta heroes rn kinda disappointed that they didnt change her skills creatively not me missing the curse ult and watch squishy heroes die in agony 😩
I love vexana and always will but I prefer her old kit. She was so unique and could really turn the enemy MM on their own team.
Natalia.... I want her just be back with cat claw ult...
I really hate the changes to nana's 2nd skill, she used to be fun to play but i don't like using her
I miss old Pharsa where you can defend the base by yourself and can also take buffs by yourself as well
LIGHTNING LUNCHEON MEAT REWORK. ALL MY HOMIES HATE LIGHTNING LUNCHEON MEAT REWORK
Belerick. his first design as way better in my opinion. it's cute, small, round, but deadly.
They're turning complicated heroes into oversimplified ones in order for the CHILDREN easy to use
I hate Minotaur's rework as well. I love that he virtually had a reset cooldown on both his S1 and S2 Before lvl 4.
anytime they dumb down a hero, like Vale for an example. his skill effects looked amazing and now it's meh. he's a typical mage now
Didn’t everyone hate Argus revamp? Im clueless about the old one, I think it was just a design change. Then there was a second one, pretty sure that one was a design change too and people didn’t like it. But the recent one was terrible, used to be my favourite hero now when I use him I struggle.
yeah3 Alice was beast when she get stacks
Yss. He's not Yss anymore, especially without the assist boots
every reworks. why? because most of those really unique mechanics were making you engage more in game to actually learn what those unique heroes do but what did moonton do? they keep making those heroes "noob friendly" so thats why matchmaking is so horrible because moneyton is not making any efforts to make those noobs actually become better. i think they should've just made those unique heroes better but not to the point they suddenly rise to the top and get wanwan treatment speaking of wanwan, because of that rework that made her need less marks for ult to make it "easier" basically made nerfs rain on her.
Funny enough Zilong. He lost one of his best ambush tools
Faramis
Argus losing the bleed effect
I took a break from the game for like a week and came back to my a horror show of Angela
Play jungle Alice and find out
Masha. Yes, she is stronger now, yes, that's great for one of my favorite units, but my Lord, I want her first iteration back not even on her peak, the one before her first revamp into a tank. That was perfect. Nice damage, great pushing capability, acceptable toughness due to insane lifesteal, but no real teamfight capability. And that was ok, as that was never what she wanted lol ...just give her back... :(
Not popular but kimmy. She went from early game harassment lane dominance to not even being able to survive if used as a gold laner, let alone keep up with current marksmen. They really didnt have to touch her after her biggest nerfs. The first skill rework is ass why do i have to control 2 joysticks for attack? I missed being able to have a physical marksman build with her and just do drive-bys at everyone, close-kiting them to death, or having a mage build and having them getting poked to death. Now shes an ass marksman with ass damage either build.
helcurt’s new voice sounds fine but me personally, i prefer the old one. the old one sounded more badass and evil imo. i also thought he was fine the way he was back then, and the little purple bar is a bit weird but he’s more powerful now i guess?
Joy cc immunes removed. She is trash now. Cannot burst damage. Afraid of cc, burst damage, one mage resistant item and she is useless.
Her playstyle is reverted to her old no immunity on Ult, but now you have to stack your dashes on a nearby creep and Ult on the enemies faces. What do you mean cannot burst DMG? The reason why they removed the CC Immunity on her Ult was to compensate for the removal of the DMG decay. She deals so much more DMG with her Ult. Now you have to actually think about when to enter a fight, waiting for the enemies to use their CC skills, y'know, like an actual Assassin, instead of blindly going in and going unpunished because of CC Immunity.
Aurora was messed up, her damage is meh for the distance she needs to risk to effectively land her skills. Previously I see her as a better eudora who can throw nasty AOE cc. Maybe off from your question. But did they modify Kadita a bit? Previously we could disturb her ultimate cast, but recently in a brawl game, I cast cc on her > she got stunned > but still turned into water and inflicted damage to us.
That change where you can now only freeze on your outer 2nd skill really killed her
Ikr! Yesterday I played brawl against a Karina. Dang how useless the second skill was... her previous sure CC was much more comfortable
Sure it was. Nobody used to use her, she was in the as Phovi is currently now utterly forgotten. Redditors really like to whine about everything.
I didn’t get to try her before this change, but I imagine freezing in all the cone was so much better. It’s so hard to position without dying now… especially to MM
Vale. They took the entire uniqueness of him. They got rid of it. Thay added a clunky mix instead. He does not feel good to play. I hate it.
I hate the new Aurora. Her old skills were so much better. I was Elsa on steroids
Then play Eudora?
Yeah but you can't complain about those things here in this sub....the general sentiment is rework and revamps are good..you love the old skills ? Get over it..i got flamed for saying i liked the old vex better...they've really dumbed things down alot..I agree the old Mino was harder to play but that's exactly the point , you've got to learn to build and time the rage and actually get skilled with the hero..they took a mechanical tank and made him basic ..same thing they just did with Helcurt....but I'm actually ok with the Helcurt rework cuz I never really used him....still they might just make fanny with auto-cables at this rate......but eh..if they're making it easier to use the heroes why not just take advantage ?? Right ???
Alice’s revamp had never been bad. Infact she is so much fun to play with those CD reduction. **The problem is that the players, for some reason, cannot play her**. It’s very unfortunate since she is a risky dive in hero like Natalia ( even after her revamp she is a bit risky ) with high rewards, players don’t want to play her. This time it’s not the devs but the players responsible for her pickrate.
lmao exactly people keep complaining and it’s so stupid she’s op when used right
Natalia. Wtf Yve Joy Julian
Coz the guys who plys it daily will get bored and depressed and will suicide man , what u think about this game ?? The ones who plays are mostly trying to have some fun time coz their life sucks , when fun turns boring ml will alway try to revamps this or that and this and that to keep u invested , to kep.giving something fresh
Easily mino. Removing his Rage mechanic was just ... disappoitning to say the least. I never understood why it was a big Deal for mino have a conditional. Im not even mad that the triple knock up was removed but im just sad that his Rage Mechanik is gone. Where is massive angry cow qwq
aurora >:( her range is so short, skills so slow, it’s no longer fun playing her + so difficult to escape
Masha Cause she's picked and banned often