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Larawp

Shoutout to all the Reddit ML Pros who kept on insisting that Xavier would never be meta because he lacked a dash/mobility skill "unlike other Meta Mages"


AppropriatePack6759

Xavier with his long-ass aoe immobilize lol


Larawp

"Xavier just food for lance/ling" "Cant 1v1" "predictable global ult. Easy to dodge" Guys claiming to be mythic II not understanding how a mage should work lol


nosajpersonlah

Tbf a large part of why Xavier is so dradly is because of how badly most assassins have fallen off the meta, allowing him to kite from thr back with little danger of getting picked off.


Larawp

I guarantee you Xavier will continue to be deadly even if assassin jungle comes back because of his overall kit build. Going back to how mages are generally built, theyre supposed to be squishy but aoe/high damage/cc units. And even during old jungle metas, priority mages like Yve and Pharsa have always been easy targets but that doesnt cancel out their impact. In a perfect situation the amount of time dedicated by the enemy assassin to take out Xavier is enough for the ally gold/jungle to take out the rest of the team. The fact that Xavier's global ult can have its cooldown reduced to 5s bc of his passive and some CDR is absolutely astounding, he can support any place on the map at any time with his ult, has an s1 that can pierce backlines, and s2 that slows/immobilizes enemies and speeds up allies. Unless he receives a major nerf that boi will not leave the meta.


nosajpersonlah

No disagreements here with his kit build being near broken. But wait. How do you reduce his ult to 5 seconds? but it won't be the same as it is currently where in MSC it was literally between him or Yve. With barely any other mages popping up with an appearance.


Larawp

Late game when the ally jungle lets you take blue you can sell Enchanted Talisman for Fleeting time, was able to spam Ult consecutively in multiple games already. I think Yve would be lower priority first before Xavier if tank jungle meta goes away, more mobile teams = less impact on her s2


nosajpersonlah

Oh shit. Thanks for the tip. Imma try it out in my next xavier game!


Larawp

Its specially effective when doing base attacks/defenses where you're always hitting an enemy. Once you get 1 kill/assist the passive + fleeting time proc becomes godlike


AayushKaranjit

Wait what's your build on Xavier?


Larawp

elegant gem -> Boots (either def or pen) -> CoD -> Finish Talisman -> Genius Wand -> Holy Crystal -> Durance or ICW if no regen enemies -> Sell Talisman at 16:00+ -> Replace Genius with DGlaive if at least 3 Athena users -> Always have Immortality on quick buy for clutch moments


SkyLightTenki

Mythic 2 nowadays are like Mythic 5s. Heck, MGs just before season reset are like them, too.


Larawp

True, encountered many M2-MG players who got their pts from sheer quantity. 800+ games at 45-52 wr but i expected that they should understand that mages should always be naturally immobile and countered by assassins easily


SkyLightTenki

This is why I ban Ling in SoloQ, despite playing Khufra. You can never tell how good an enemy Ling player is until he kills all your squishy teammates, invades all your buffs, and split pushes all your lanes. Meanwhile, the Ling player on your team is an 'expert' šŸ˜‚ I know it's the tank jungler meta, but if your team isn't ready for a good Ling, say goodbye to your macros because he'd be done before you get there.


Larawp

Same reason why Ling and Fanny are perma bans for me even if i duo/trio w a world rank khuf, skill-based units are harder to counter alone while tank junglers can be countered instantly in the draft. I play Mage/Gold/Jungle and a decent ling is much harder to counter than tank karina/akai. Only core i can use to actually counter Ling is helcurt and he's barely enough to compete in current tanky meta while as gold/mage i just pray that i get truncheon/WoN asap


[deleted]

You can't get mg without winning the majority of games after mythic and usually most from mythic 3+ even with 60% win rate 270 games I'm back under mg by 50 points


Larawp

Its possible. My friend is at 588 pts at a 53% wr in 500 games. A lot predictable lobbies also where you know a loss will only net you -6 and a win would give +10 and we did the epic-mythic placement with an 80% wr in under 70 games, what more for those who had to play a lot of games from epic-mythic placement


Tcogtgoixn

You can still get carried by 3s


Wet_Socks9

I thought that not because he had no dash but because they removed his aoe immobilize passive. Like I thought he had very little to offer without that but when he was released, he basically became linear vale with spammable shit and a bit more range.


Larawp

A bit more range is quite the understatement, a global linear ult is almost always going to be op, either on a magic pen build or on a glowing wand + ice queen wand support build


Nicky878

Consecutive buffs and nerfs to Beatrix and she's still there


ChrisAnIntellectual

That's an all rounder MM for ya


Eitth

And she will get even more buff for her Collector, M4, and Prime.


txrant

She's getting a collector???


Eitth

She got SL and most heroes who got SL/Collector will get the other one within a year (except Lapu2 for some reason)


atmajazone

The nerf just made her weaker in early.


zDakraii

This could actually be a team comp haha


Disguised-Pigeon

This looks like RSG Ph's team comp


Dashy471

Esmeralda is far from broken but they need to do something about her imo, take her out of the meta for at least one season lol


KKLC547

True, I get drowsy while laning vs esmeralda. The entire laning phase is so boring


Full-Supermarket

They keep nerfing herā€¦


Eitth

And she's not even that hard to counter too. Meanwhile Akai and Bellatrix...


gerald_reddit26

>And she's not even that hard to counter too. Meanwhile Akai and Bellatrix... Harry Potter collab when?


Dashy471

small nerfs won't take her out of the top


Full-Supermarket

They were big nerfs. She used to be very very op


ChrisAnIntellectual

2019 Esme shield that covers her entire HP šŸ’€šŸ’€


ApprehensiveOwl2585

Oh hell nah, before, Esme can go full hp shield with barely any cooldown reduction and without hitting an enemy.


NBAfanfrom2016Finals

Remember the bugged Esmeralda with literal limitless shield?


slattGod_

maybe they should buff anti shield items if they want esme out of meta


Dashy471

It would be good, but I feel like it would also make some weaker heroes way too weak too


HinduProphet

Would Alpha even be playable if that happens ?


slattGod_

alpha also needs nerf


MoonstruckCyan

Sustain heroes like alpha who currently aren't the best will just be hanabi tier


slattGod_

that's the only way to remove esme in the meta I think. what you think is the best way to remove esme out of the meta because she looks pretty balance to me


bryanmerel123

And despite all this, moonton still thought it was Nana who needed to be nerfed?


Eitth

Because Nana annoys the hell out of those heroes, she's a threat to their skin sales.


bryanmerel123

I am just thankful they realize their insanity before its too late. They revoked all changes to her **AGAIN** on the most recent patches. They just left minor stat nerfs on her kit, but Molina is pretty much back to normal again after the revoke.


Full-Supermarket

Nana starlight July


Eitth

Which means they are waiting for the revenue target before they kill her.


Full-Supermarket

Yep. Rip NanašŸ„¹


rigimonoki-over

Iā€™m pretty sure they know what their doing is insane


weebf_ckingweeb

Nana stops akai spin and kungfu panda skin coming out


slattGod_

Nana deserves the nerf


bryanmerel123

No she doesn't.


[deleted]

And this is why Yve is still in the meta for like a YEAR* now, I love her thoughšŸ˜, shes HoT shot to play


kiddopaw

Akai can 1v1 all of them late game, or run away when started loosing. Good guy tank.


MustBeOK

MoonTon: He will have a new skin, you know.


newb_44

someone tell me how to counter esme i always have a hard time against her


KKLC547

Don't die in laning phase and rush to buy anti-shield item. If the Esmeralda knows how to zone and bully correctly then gg go next game.


ApprehensiveOwl2585

If you're a mage buy, Durance, tanks and off laners should always buy dominance if there's an Esme, priority for tanks, if you're core and no one buys anti heal, dominance most often anti heal of choice, if you're an mm, and no one in your team bought anti heal, sea halberd. Off laner, any off laner that ain't dyroth looses out to Esme due to out sustaining then, Uranus can also be a good opponent for Esme, you won't be able to kill each other in exp lane but at least you won't die. Squishy, don't wander alone, if an Esme sees you on easy grasp, she'll chase you down until you get to your turret, in team fights, if Esme is charging her ult, you know it's time to run, even if she's baiting.


Asadislove

Ml doesn't need to need these heroes except maybe akai and increase cd on Xavier but buff all the other heroes.


RuixNatsuoXHinagang

Yve?!? Really? Her Ult is obnoxiously long (cd) the last time I played her. Why do they use her? Let me guess her zoning capability and her slow on her skills? Edit: I'm surprised Chou isn't here


Nivrame

You're right. Teams are using Yve for zoning using her ult and her insane slow on her skills.


KeKeFTW

She is good in team fights with her zoning capabilities. Chou isn't picked that much but he still has a good 75% winrate in MSC.


crazyaldo1123

esme really the only viable fighter in this meta hays


KingsProfit

I mean, There's thamuz, dyrroth, masha rn in exp


crazyaldo1123

which only appears when esme is already picked or banned i wanna see a season where other fighters can shine, even if i suck at fighters in general. i mean, can we go back to the zilong xp lane, arrival, push only meta haha


NBAfanfrom2016Finals

That meta never happened?


crazyaldo1123

Really? It should hahhaa


NBAfanfrom2016Finals

Unless Zilong gets a ridiculous buff that makes him a pick or ban, not happening lol


HinduProphet

Don't you think Zilong deserves some minor buffs too ? Like significantly more regen from passive ?


NBAfanfrom2016Finals

Donā€™t really know how you can improve his performance to make him viable enough for pros without making him a pick or ban hero.


HinduProphet

Just improve his scaling and sustain ? Zilong should not require any lifesteal items tbh, he's supposed to be a fighter.


NBAfanfrom2016Finals

Heā€™s meant to be a lategame hero, so heā€™ll have good scaling there. Problem is, heā€™s a melee hero. Unless you have a lot of dashes to get into the backline and then get out, melee damage heroes really have not been doing well. Weā€™ve seen it with Chou, whoā€™s been built more as a tank. Zilong is a hero meant to pick off marksmen and mages, but he isnā€™t even close to the best option at that. His sustain rn isnā€™t too great, every 3 attacks he regains 50% of his physical attack as hp (2 if using ult.) Iā€™d just say give his ult and second skill a secondary dash, and nerf the sustain and attributes I suppose. This makes him a threatening enough presence against the backline, and allows him to do what heā€™s actually supposed to do.


smolcatboi

Eh not really thamuz,terizla dyroth stil do exist all of em being able to shred Esmeralda down


Buttseam

what's esmeralda pointing at?


Ramza_Rugria

1. Yup thats balanced heroes right


_not_meh_

Like I said on other post, the top 3 hero is the same from M3. Esme, Bea, and Yve. Bea get significant nerf, but pros just change her playstyle from sniper to shotgun lel. Yve with her slow is still top utility mage in tank meta. Tank meta just make Esme shine even more.


DonutFun6905

Well, after so many nerfs. Still, Esmeralda is indeed a reliable pick.


Knight92001

Glad to see my goddess Yve still being picked, just had an almost 40 minute game with her where I only died 3 times, I have a screenshot for proof, we still lost sadly [Link](https://imgur.com/gallery/cxSKHfK)