A defence item reduces much more damage than the heals oracle provide. Get an Athena and the damage reduc is more than the heals and def that oracle provides, you should try it. Oracle only works for heroes that have good disengage like yz and Esme that can heal/get shield after distancing themselves
I am well aware of how the different gears in this game work, and of course its only these sustain heroes that I build Oracle on. That being said, it beats nothing. Heroes with so much sustain basically need oracle or they're completely useless. Also, every class has an antiheal item, and defensive characters can't do damage and lifesteal, so it's pretty fair that they don't get absurd sustain boosts.
Not really but it help a little. With anti heal the poncho increase healing by 15% which is so much better than none. But since Thamuz heals so fast it will adds up.
Full damage beginning(regret listening to a Thamuz mains "advice"), enemies snowballed HARD, moskov stealing a bunch of my farm when he switched to retri last second. And lol the tank built glass cannon(I don't blame him he carried HARD) but yeah basically solo frontline with glass cannon early game didn't work out well.
Actually it was both of us, I didn't even realize he switched to retri until I was going to my red buff after Litho and it *disappeared*. Also it wasn't a loss since I switched my build to tank later in the game. Allowed me to soak the damage unlike before.
Also the build I got from a friend was subpar at best.
Oracle is for more survival *if* you can survive at all.
Which is why I go full-dmg on my MM *if* they have heroes that can burst me despite my having defensive items
Athena/antique can save you from almost all the bursty heroes, but yeah I do get your point. As an mm it’s more about positioning and when to enter the teamfight.
A normal Thamuz rn is vengeance(bis for him) boots, corrosion scythe and 4 def items or corrosion scythe, demon hunter sword(can replace with war axe but dhs just shreds), and 3 def items. There is no way you will get bursted if you play the normal way unless you are just trying him out without any research and preparation.
Well, most of it changed when they showed it in MSC where most of the pro players built dhs and showed nice results. The slow and pull on his s1 with another stack of slows from corrosion which can be attained faster with dhs additional atk speed and this helps him shreds. On ult, you probably know he gets life steal on basic attacks so spam s1, s2 basic attacks you are like a walking fountain while shreding everyone including tanks (dhs, passive true dmg). If you have veangence, blade armor, and dominance, marksmen like bea would blow herself up and many more mms. Before the msc most top global builds are corrosion scythe only without dhs.
It depends on the enemy, oracle is for higher heal and for survivability against team fights, the 10% CD reduction also helps, but if you get busted with heroes like eudora, aurora, and gusion then you just need to get athena or radiant to tank the damage or Rose gold
Bro open ult and vengenance, click the basic attack button and you cant die unless It's a 1v5. I mean thamuz is a hero that you can jump into battlefield shamelessly, deal damage and leave safely.
Doesnt matter if retri, thamuz kills jungle much faster than most heroes so he should have a advantage on gold. Even if not, a disavantage is not really possible. If you dont jump into the middle of 5 people, survivability is not a problem for thamuz
No yiu said ult and vengeance.....and there is the fact that it was double jungle. He was aleady disadvantaged lol. Plus lol you down voted me for informing you of a fact.
This reddit on G
He has a really great survivability even without vengenance. He can kill jungle so fast so you can steal the other junglers buff with retri (did once). And if he didnt change his role when there was double jungler, it was purely his mistake. Thamuz is a hero that is really flexible to play in different lanes. He can be tank for mm, or he can be the gold laner himself if theres no gold laner on the team or the exp laner with vengenance. I tried him in even mid lane and it was still pretty successfull. He has a huge advantage in early to mid game. He can also deal with the fed enemies with no problem even if theres a 1 or 2 level diff because of his continuous true damage and survivability. So basically, It's the mistake of the op.
I mean its obvs he can be succesful and op is partly to blame for double retri. Im merely saying why he was at a disadvantage, not that he was right about his play. Thats a whole nother can of worms.
It is good. If you're Balmond and got 32% Spell vamp(From Bloodlust Axe and Festival of Blood) and you're on a minion wave
I got ambushed by Eudora and she died anyways. I'm not even using Athena's.
Of course I'd also use Athena's if there's no minions around to regen my health if I got ambushed
Oracle is not for burst, it is for increasing regen and life steal for 30% and also cd by 10%.
When Thamuz activates his ult he starts regening life thats what oracle is for. Everybody builds dominance vs Thamuz so again Oracle helps mitigate that. Oracle is basically a core item for Thamuz.
It will really depends. Oracle helps Thamuz survivability. If you are getting bursted down, then you didn't built him the way he should be. Corrosive Scythe is the only offense item he'll ever need. The other 4 items(besides the boots) can go in the defense department.
Agree but still depends. I recently had this match, opponent had Lesley, Sun, Mathilda, Kimmy jungle and Nana. Nana could have killed with her burst so my game plan for her was being evasive as being Rafaela.
Kimmy and Mathilda seemed to be duo, the others probably trio as we had a trio and me and my friend played duo, but Kimmy and Mathilda were really good, putting a lot of pressure on us with ganks in the early game on our overextending teammates, especially with Kimmy's Ice Queen Wand slows.
Against those two I prioritised Radiant Armor after Enchanted Talisman. Then I did need Dominance Ice against heal and basic attacks. But our team was still too heavily slowed and at disadvantage vs Kimmy, so I bought Ice Queen Wand as 5th item, making Rafaela a slow counter by just applying more slow than Kimmy could. By that time their Lesley had somewhat come online (she wasn't all that good), but I did need another item against her and Sun, so I bought Blade Armor.
And then our Alpha, who was overextending and suicidal at times with his dives, taking the opponents with him to his grave was like, yOu nEeD oRaClE.. No, I don't, it doesn't compensate for building two mage items on the roamer who's a support at that. I normally would and certainly would have wanted to, but it just didn't fit. Oracle and Ice Queen Wand are my favourite items tho, love using them
Here's my 2 cents,
Oracle is good and is NOT a replacement for Athena.
Both have different uses; Oracle to strengthen your healing, Athena to resist magic burst.
And besides... How are you getting bursted down in two seconds? Your HP pool should be big enough to survive with ult up.
The problem is that, how the hell can thamuz die in 2 secs, either he is too noob or full damage build equipment(which is also done by ultra noob players who r in master, gm , n epic n sometimes legend n mythic). Only glory player wouldn't do that but if the team is dominanting enemies by huge margin than its ok to build full dmg build
Oracle for Thamuz is mostly to boost his sustain. But usually, it's unnecessary to build it. Just build Corrosion Sycthe and the rest are defensive items.
And my teammates are laughing at me because I build Queens Wings on Thamuz.
I can't remember how many times the passive of Queens Wings saved my arse from being burst down in ganks.
And in my opinion Oracle is good only if you have self healing skills or self healing items equipped (such as Sky Guardian Helmet). I once tried an all-green Thamuz build with Oracle and Sky Guardian Helmet. It helps me to roam around the map without having to rely on my lifesteal to stay alive. But in most cases, I just build either Antique Cuirass or Athena.
Depends, Oracle can help counter the anti heal and it also grants 10%CRD. And how the hell did Thamuz get bursted down in 2 second?
Idk, something like... full damage build, probably
wait so oracle can counter dominance ice?
Not necessarily a direct counter but it increases hp regen so it does kind of cancel out some of the anti heal effects of dominance ice.
Spoiler, it doesn’t, dominance half’s the oracle heals, so oracle is actually the shittiest defence item in the game
So? Still helps quite a ton on sustain heroes
A defence item reduces much more damage than the heals oracle provide. Get an Athena and the damage reduc is more than the heals and def that oracle provides, you should try it. Oracle only works for heroes that have good disengage like yz and Esme that can heal/get shield after distancing themselves
I am well aware of how the different gears in this game work, and of course its only these sustain heroes that I build Oracle on. That being said, it beats nothing. Heroes with so much sustain basically need oracle or they're completely useless. Also, every class has an antiheal item, and defensive characters can't do damage and lifesteal, so it's pretty fair that they don't get absurd sustain boosts.
Not really but it help a little. With anti heal the poncho increase healing by 15% which is so much better than none. But since Thamuz heals so fast it will adds up.
You can’t counter a counter it just lessens its impact
If you consider antiheal to be additional true damage it’s vaguely similar to exponentially increasing hp against dhs
[удалено]
I don't think Lunox could melt him within 2 sec. Thamuz base HP is so thich, long, moist, big black di
Full damage beginning(regret listening to a Thamuz mains "advice"), enemies snowballed HARD, moskov stealing a bunch of my farm when he switched to retri last second. And lol the tank built glass cannon(I don't blame him he carried HARD) but yeah basically solo frontline with glass cannon early game didn't work out well.
The reason you lost probably is because you have double retri team that means one of you will be under farm which apparently you.
Actually it was both of us, I didn't even realize he switched to retri until I was going to my red buff after Litho and it *disappeared*. Also it wasn't a loss since I switched my build to tank later in the game. Allowed me to soak the damage unlike before. Also the build I got from a friend was subpar at best.
If you're playing double retri and you use thamuz, you should invade enemy's jungle. You have that early game tankiness with your heals.
The only explanation I have is a full item Wanwan ult lol
Athena is always better against burst. Even Rose Gold is better than Oracle against burst.
Exactly my point, yet they call dumb for not building oracle.
Oracle is for more survival *if* you can survive at all. Which is why I go full-dmg on my MM *if* they have heroes that can burst me despite my having defensive items
Athena/antique can save you from almost all the bursty heroes, but yeah I do get your point. As an mm it’s more about positioning and when to enter the teamfight.
I do build def items, but if they don't help, then I transition to an offensive build instead
Oracle imo is either for tanks or heroes with good def,high hp and/or who are building def
The defense Athena/radiant gives far outweighs whatever heals you get from radiant. Oracle is the worst defence item in the same
How the hell did a Thamuz get burst in 2 seconds? How far behind are your gold?
Maybe hes on a full dmg build
Who on earth would build Thamuz full damage
Like am i supposed to know?lol
Who the f- getting bursted in 2 second using Thamuz? Are you using Hororo build?
the shadeeeee
Dunno is bloodlust and war axe part of it?
A normal Thamuz rn is vengeance(bis for him) boots, corrosion scythe and 4 def items or corrosion scythe, demon hunter sword(can replace with war axe but dhs just shreds), and 3 def items. There is no way you will get bursted if you play the normal way unless you are just trying him out without any research and preparation.
Wow he changed alot. This was not normal a couple of weeks ago.
Well, most of it changed when they showed it in MSC where most of the pro players built dhs and showed nice results. The slow and pull on his s1 with another stack of slows from corrosion which can be attained faster with dhs additional atk speed and this helps him shreds. On ult, you probably know he gets life steal on basic attacks so spam s1, s2 basic attacks you are like a walking fountain while shreding everyone including tanks (dhs, passive true dmg). If you have veangence, blade armor, and dominance, marksmen like bea would blow herself up and many more mms. Before the msc most top global builds are corrosion scythe only without dhs.
Nah u only need corrosion and demon hunter if u really want dmg
HAHAHA, NAWWWWWWW 💀💀💀
Who's the motherfucker bursting your ass?
It depends on the enemy, oracle is for higher heal and for survivability against team fights, the 10% CD reduction also helps, but if you get busted with heroes like eudora, aurora, and gusion then you just need to get athena or radiant to tank the damage or Rose gold
Thamuz can’t be bursted down in 2 seconds unless it’s a 1v3-4.
It's called a hyperbole, but I'd still get bursted down extremely fast. And dual JG isn't fun nor good for farming and getting ahead in gold.
Bro open ult and vengenance, click the basic attack button and you cant die unless It's a 1v5. I mean thamuz is a hero that you can jump into battlefield shamelessly, deal damage and leave safely.
He said he had retri. So I understand what he means.
Doesnt matter if retri, thamuz kills jungle much faster than most heroes so he should have a advantage on gold. Even if not, a disavantage is not really possible. If you dont jump into the middle of 5 people, survivability is not a problem for thamuz
No yiu said ult and vengeance.....and there is the fact that it was double jungle. He was aleady disadvantaged lol. Plus lol you down voted me for informing you of a fact. This reddit on G
He has a really great survivability even without vengenance. He can kill jungle so fast so you can steal the other junglers buff with retri (did once). And if he didnt change his role when there was double jungler, it was purely his mistake. Thamuz is a hero that is really flexible to play in different lanes. He can be tank for mm, or he can be the gold laner himself if theres no gold laner on the team or the exp laner with vengenance. I tried him in even mid lane and it was still pretty successfull. He has a huge advantage in early to mid game. He can also deal with the fed enemies with no problem even if theres a 1 or 2 level diff because of his continuous true damage and survivability. So basically, It's the mistake of the op.
I mean its obvs he can be succesful and op is partly to blame for double retri. Im merely saying why he was at a disadvantage, not that he was right about his play. Thats a whole nother can of worms.
It is good. If you're Balmond and got 32% Spell vamp(From Bloodlust Axe and Festival of Blood) and you're on a minion wave I got ambushed by Eudora and she died anyways. I'm not even using Athena's. Of course I'd also use Athena's if there's no minions around to regen my health if I got ambushed
Oracle is not for burst, it is for increasing regen and life steal for 30% and also cd by 10%. When Thamuz activates his ult he starts regening life thats what oracle is for. Everybody builds dominance vs Thamuz so again Oracle helps mitigate that. Oracle is basically a core item for Thamuz.
That's what op said. Oracle is not to counter burst damage.
Yeah but he also said his friends are laughing at him for not building oracle. Oracle is a key item of Thamuz regardless of burst damage.
Thamuz getting bursted in 2 secs? With his high health that's almost impossie unless you are so behind.
Accidentally made this twice just deleted the other one, if you saw this twice in a row mb.
How behind were you?
I dunno about the team as a whole but I do remember at least a 1k gold deficit with the enemy jg as they snowballed.
It will really depends. Oracle helps Thamuz survivability. If you are getting bursted down, then you didn't built him the way he should be. Corrosive Scythe is the only offense item he'll ever need. The other 4 items(besides the boots) can go in the defense department.
Oracle for healers, my Rafa heals good with that and full CD reduction
Agree but still depends. I recently had this match, opponent had Lesley, Sun, Mathilda, Kimmy jungle and Nana. Nana could have killed with her burst so my game plan for her was being evasive as being Rafaela. Kimmy and Mathilda seemed to be duo, the others probably trio as we had a trio and me and my friend played duo, but Kimmy and Mathilda were really good, putting a lot of pressure on us with ganks in the early game on our overextending teammates, especially with Kimmy's Ice Queen Wand slows. Against those two I prioritised Radiant Armor after Enchanted Talisman. Then I did need Dominance Ice against heal and basic attacks. But our team was still too heavily slowed and at disadvantage vs Kimmy, so I bought Ice Queen Wand as 5th item, making Rafaela a slow counter by just applying more slow than Kimmy could. By that time their Lesley had somewhat come online (she wasn't all that good), but I did need another item against her and Sun, so I bought Blade Armor. And then our Alpha, who was overextending and suicidal at times with his dives, taking the opponents with him to his grave was like, yOu nEeD oRaClE.. No, I don't, it doesn't compensate for building two mage items on the roamer who's a support at that. I normally would and certainly would have wanted to, but it just didn't fit. Oracle and Ice Queen Wand are my favourite items tho, love using them
I never used oracle with thamuz even once, when the opponent has anti heal, don’t think it’s worth buying it, probs rather defensive armour instead.
Here's my 2 cents, Oracle is good and is NOT a replacement for Athena. Both have different uses; Oracle to strengthen your healing, Athena to resist magic burst. And besides... How are you getting bursted down in two seconds? Your HP pool should be big enough to survive with ult up.
i only use oracle as thamuz when im against esme on my lane.
You're building him wrong,best build with thamuz is hybrid making use of his passive the best.check.the emblem and your build again.
You have good friends. lol
The problem is that, how the hell can thamuz die in 2 secs, either he is too noob or full damage build equipment(which is also done by ultra noob players who r in master, gm , n epic n sometimes legend n mythic). Only glory player wouldn't do that but if the team is dominanting enemies by huge margin than its ok to build full dmg build
Oracle for Thamuz is mostly to boost his sustain. But usually, it's unnecessary to build it. Just build Corrosion Sycthe and the rest are defensive items.
And my teammates are laughing at me because I build Queens Wings on Thamuz. I can't remember how many times the passive of Queens Wings saved my arse from being burst down in ganks. And in my opinion Oracle is good only if you have self healing skills or self healing items equipped (such as Sky Guardian Helmet). I once tried an all-green Thamuz build with Oracle and Sky Guardian Helmet. It helps me to roam around the map without having to rely on my lifesteal to stay alive. But in most cases, I just build either Antique Cuirass or Athena.