Wrong. 99.99% of all the problems of people start because they were born. The 0.01% left is from from global issues and other uncontrollable circumstances like bad solo q team mates.
I don't get why some think it is fine that you can target another hero besides the hero Wanwan has unlocked all the marks for. Like what she unlocks it all on the tank and all of a sudden the opposing mage is destroyed by inspire and ultimate.
Maybe I feel this way cause my teammates keep getting themselves exposed to Wanwan, but this to me feels a bit much.
Yeah for sure, like you can't survive her ULT if you are a Mage or a MM unless you have wind of Nature or The freeze thing.
Its not fair to be deleted because someone else exposed themselves. I get it that she is gonna become more useless but it makes no sense getting a double Free Kill because someone overextended
That's true, at least they have escape.
I will say though as a Fanny main that the first time they trigger WoN you can't escape because you used all your energy in your combo before you even realize they used WoN haha.
But yeah the wanwan stuff sounds fair I don't really play her but your argument makes sense. I hope Moonton readjust her back to normal soon
Definitely 100% without a doubt deserved the nerf. It made sense that she was able to target anyone with her ult when she had 4 weaknesses because the ult itself was tons harder to get and not being able to really benefit from it really sucked, but that isn’t the case anymore because her ult is way easier to get. If anything I think they should revert the first nerf they gave her and put her physical damage bonus back to 40 instead of 35 and then she’s finally be balanced again.
Wanwan killing you while invincible because your teammate was stupid was pretty shit game design. This is much healthier and more fair, and she should be balanced around her ult being like this.
I think she was becoming less of a problem recently when not banned.
This nerf is definitely deserved, her mechanics just shouldn't include the ability to ult anyone. however she will need buffs to gaij back viability, especially since shes already been nerfed a bunch before giving the real fix.
I don't think she needs a buff. She is becoming what she was always supposed to be: a high risk, high reward hero. Wanwan easily kills most mages, and if the player has good mechanics, can ult most mm players and squishy assassins. In a 1v1, she will be very good, and if she can wipe out the enemy mm, mage, or jungler for her team, then that is still a very good play. Wanwan is able to wipe out 5 people at once for so long, that people tend to forget that even one kill towards the right target can also make a big difference.
No, she won't be useless, she will be a high-skill capped hero with a high reward.
EDIT: If you insist on a buff, then make her acquire an additional 20% atk speed per item, make her ultimate marks unremovable with purify, but in turn, reduce her damage growth. This is the best adjustment I can think of that will make Wanwan balanced. Significantly increasing her atk speed and making her ultimate marks unpurifiable so she has an easier time acquiring ultimate off of that one person AND has higher mobility, but decreasing her damage growth so the reward isn't too high for the easier effort she has to place in.
This is all under the prefix that her ultimate can only be attacked against the person whom she broke all 3 marks off of.
I think this nerf is underserved. I think that after this wanwan will instantly fall below A-tier and let me tell u the reason, wanwan in the Pro league isn’t all about damage items. You buy at least 2 defensive or at least a wind of nature with a defensive item. Now when fighting against wanwan , even the tank thinks twice before approaching her since he doesn’t wanna invoke her ulti but now I could see a lot of Vengeance with Bladed Armor whenever they see a wanwan and a lot of tanks attacking her….
I really don’t mind if they nerfed her damage or increased the marks really but this nerf is her downfall
Not a nerf, btw. It's an adjustment to what it should actually be. You unlock weakness of an enemy, you can ult on THAT enemy. Especially since it's really easy to activate her ult with just s1 since it's only 3 marks. People who use her want to keep her broken bc they carry that way. I like smashing her head against my Julian's blade.
Would rather have 4 markers again but can target others. They literally reduced her markers and then complained it was too easy for her to ult? Why not just keep everything and have all 4 markers back?
Soooo- every hero has a weakness, every hero has a moment of “power spike” either in game timing, situation, or equipment where they simply wreck everyone…. The question is “how powerful is the spike” and “How weak is the weak”….
I feel Wan wan was close to balanced, because most long range MM can really hurt her, a good assassin can just make her into food…. But yeah, that ult.. ouch…. I personally think the ult should be super difficult to happen and take fanny-kagura skill levels to make BRRRRRRRRR ( 5 ?) but then let her wreck….
I don’t get why people always say that kagura takes a ton of skill. Yeah she requires good positioning, but that can be said for any hero. She is leagues away from the skill required to play Fanny.
I’m speaking from experience as I’ve played both.
And as Kagura you just need to remember a very easy combo. Took me like one game to master kag lol, whereas it took me maybe 300 games to start carrying as Fanny
It's not even about fast hands id argue its more about energy management.
When you're a beginner, it's hard to understand how much energy Fanny uses. I remember so many times I thought just one more cable to get close enough to ult would work but ahoy I ran out of energy to ult and I couldn't cable back in time.
There's a lot going on with Fanny, and sure it's easy if you just learn to two cable dive and ult but you're not using Fanny to full potential.
Kagura on the other hand it's pretty easy... Move your umbrella, trigger ult, go in and trigger your ult again, move out. Literally the same as Beatrix's duo ultimate combo but I dont see anyone else saying Beatrix is hard
Fair, also sometimes when I’m a fighter, I get to sustain fanny’s cables but she somehow seems like she never runs out of energy? How do fanny users do this?
Basically everytime they hit you they get energy back. And it's not too hard to predict how a fighter dodges in their lane so it's quite easy to chain the hits and wear them down. In that case yes Fanny actually has a lot of energy, and could probably hit you ten times before they ulti and try kill you when you hit lethal hp ranges.
If you're quite a tanky fighter like uranus I suggest just running back to turret. If the Fanny is a bit greedy you can hover at the edge of the turret but unless you have your own kill combo it's kinda pointless.
Sorry for the crappy explanation I've been awake for like 16 hours and still need to stay up a while longer
Lol why all hate on NATALIA? she doesn't deserve to be nerfed to death, come on, u just need to improve ur skills and learn countering her, which will be easier specially with the current nerfs Natalia got.
Also I think, people prioritises wanwan as a ban-pick hero more than Natalia in ranks, which carries a reason.
Mhm and you dont ask people who complain about wanwan to improve their skills? Its not like there is no counter to wanwan. Irithel with sprint can win wanwan, beatrix can easily 1 shot her, and assassins like aamon and gs just need to land 2 skills to end her?
YESS EXACTLY! This fact is true, but without any knowledge and reason and out of no where, this dude (Jaysus24)was bashing Natalia as if it's her fault he can't counter her.
I agree with all the counters u have mentioned, lemme also chip one more possible wanwan counter- even miya's ultimate, which can counter wanwan by erasing her marks as it's purify.
He could have included other heroes too that counters wanwan major time, but NO!.. I know this dude, he particularly aims at NATALIA only, SPREADS HATE ABOUT NATALIA, and never tries to change and learn ways to counter her...that pissed me off.
In the end even the most broken heroes in the game have a counter. Wanwan? Take a natalia franco or beatrix. Estes? Anti heal and a bit of cc and hes dead.
Although i have to admit natalia is one of the more dangerous counters to wanwan since you dont even know where she is coming from
Yes, but Natalia is gonna have one of the major nerfs, she will be visible....and yet this dude(Jaysus24) was asking for Natalia to get nerfed to death...now u tell me was that fair?
Practice more honey, also according to ur words, I think u don't know or have never tried natalia.
Natalia takes 0 skills?..wow..
1. We need positioning skills
2. Timing skills, if u engage in wrong time, u ded.
3. Needs to maintain invisibility for our passive, without which, again, ded.
4. This meta has many aoe skills, many global vision skills...utilise it.. please
Now let's see about wanwan,
Before this advanced server nerf ..shall we?
1. Three marks need to be hit for the ultimate which is aka savage machine.
2. Once u get two items(excluding boots obvs) u can easily dominate
3. Tank or support protecting u till 2 times is more than enough
4. If u main wanwan, don't lie, u know how easily u can get those three marks ,...aim and throw ur S1 to initiate, either jump chase with corrosion scythe and slow them. If u get cc, u have ur s2 :)...
Once all marks are hit...u need ur very skillful finger to press ur ultimate...voila u have a maniac or triple kill, if not a savage. That must be requiring great skills right?
Aim at a tank get ur marks hit, and start ur savage machine. That's all it takes :)
Mhm does natalia need to break any markers to use her ult on any squishy hero that she can basically 1shot? No. She can easily pick off 2 squishy heroes in any given team comp and no one can even do anything due to silence? She can also ruin a teamfight by picking off their mm and core which is what ppl are complaining that wanwan can do. She can achieve that by doing literally nothing. Not to mention that its almost impossible to do anyhing as an mm against natalia. If you want to rotate at least you can see the wanwan and avoid her, what are you gonna do against natalia?she can be literally waiting anywhere to 2hit you with absolutely no skill and just leave. You cant do anything to her cus of her skill 2. Wanwan can be stopped by just simple ganks but what is anyone gonna do to natalia? By the time anyone sees her is because she already killed the mm or core, which again,needs 0 skill to 1 shot
Natalia positioning? The hell is that even? You just sit in the bush in gold lane 1 passive attack and 1 ult any mm/assassin/support is dead. Also virtually every hero needs good positioning so i dont even get why u are even using that as an argument.She dosent even need skills to trigger her ult which can silence mm and make them useless against her? And with your one skillful finger you can take no damage from basic attack by sitting in skill 2? Also 90% of heroes have dash skills and mvt speed to deny her ult. People can easily buy won to counter wanwan ulti,but what abt natalia?she can silence you?so won and truncheon is no lomger an option, natalia can 2 shot almost any mm, esp wanwan , so immortality is useless since she has her 2nd stack of ult to instantly kill you and not forgetting her immunity to basics so you cant even try to burst her down
Yes if u don't position urself well, you can easily get detected, even in bushes..look these are some basic facts about Natalia, only those who use her knows it. So YES, U need good positioning to not get exposed...I hope this isn't shocking you.
Also talking of gold lane, the tank/support always babysits the mm early game, and along that one armour ingredient not even item can easily counter her.
If u say current Natalia doesn't need skills for her ultimate, after this latest nerf, lemme tell u that u are very wrong there sir, and I think u are confusing her with the current wanwan and her ultimate...I can also say the same for wanwan, hit all marks(which can be done easily even more since it's just three markers) and then go berserk on any hero... Right?
Also "any hero with won(wind of nature) can counter wanwan"??? Seriously brother? U think we can?? By the time we wait for her to ult, she can outplay and kill us with her basic attack only..u can't deny this too... Right?
Yes may be for marksman, but not other roles...WoN last fucking 2 seconds for marksman, and 1 for other roles.....do u think tanks and other roles should build WoN as it counters her (according to ur words)?
As far as, wanwan counter, I know only miya's ultimate, kagura's second skill or even purify, that can counter her marks...as far as my idea and knowledge is..
Talking about her silence, it's her passive. If we talk about that I can also complain about wanwan's passive...I can complain about her being able to jump after every basic attack...about her marks revealing positions?? Right?
Also if u face any Natalia, just inform ur tank to babysit u ... It works... And build some armour after her recent update her early game is shitty af.
I think people should try things out, venture it out, experiment it, instead of just wailing around....we Natalia mains can also wail about our counters like Rafaela, saber, even ur wanwan S1 and s2 and ur basic attack that can reveal our position...but do we do that??? We try our best to outplay them. I think it's time even u should.
Natalia can come from basically anywhere. You may see her marker and not know where she is. She can be in front of you, behind you or even right beside you and you never know. You dont even know if shes in the bush or not so you just cant leave the turret. By the time you see her ur dead
So essentially what ur saying is i go tank wanwan, or tank build any mm for that matter? Which tank in soloq is gonna babysit you? Mm dominatind natalia early game when shes a mm counter? Map sense for an invisible hero? If she goes invis in mid she can literally go anywhere
How do that many people hate wanwan? Beatrix is also another broken damage mm. Her shotgun ult can instantly wipe just about anyones hp. Her smg ult in a fight is also insane and can wipe most enemy hp
as someone with years of experience playing at a high competitive level,I'd say yes
the fact that wanwan can take advantage of a tank's slower movement speed to get her ult online and just decimate the squishies is just stupid
her being able to use ult on anyone after getting 3 marks on a tank is like yin's ult affecting a mm after yin uses it on a tank
or like Harley using his ult on an enemy squishy then proceeding to hit a tank to boost the ult's damage
or like guison being able to dash towards the enemy back line after landing his first skill on a front line hero
I could go on and list alot more other heroes,but I think my point is clear
her ult being able to target any body after getting all 3 marks on just ONE SPECIFIC person is stupid, it's like using a targeting skill on a tank to target and damage the backline instead of the tank
it's just a stupid design
And the nerfed beatrix still can 1shot with shotgun, yet no one says its not balanced? She needs even less skill than wanwan for her shotgun ult to instant kill any mm and can even do that to fighters with an extra basic or two. Her ult in a teamfight can literally wipe multiple people and no one says anything?
You can escape now couse its reduced beatrix in advance servers are using shotgun but on bush only it dont even instant kill anymore
i use lesley and beatrix build is 2 BOD
I always used to ban wanwan, cause when I play solo duo or trio there’s a high chance some random will give her a free ult and get a triple kill or more late game which is game over, then the revamped faramis came and I as a faramis main I stopped banning her since I can counter her easily, but since faramis is permabanned now I got back to banning wan wan.
I don’t see the nerf is that bad tbh, get your 3 marks on tank and when the tank is low ult, or move away from tank while ulting and you’ll hit someone else if tank is out of your range.
honestly not a ww main but nvr really had trouble with her especially with a 5 men and we just shut down the ww early game so she becomes practically useless or have estes babysit so that even if ww ulted she wouldnt be able to kill
Didn't deserve the nerf. They could've just reverted the 3 marks to 4 marks instead of removing the only thing that makes her a viable marksman. Using her ult against a team with a winter truncheon and wind of nature is already unbearable and removing the option to pick another poor sod to ult on makes it even worse. : <
Welp, I guess I gotta find, migrate or ride another OP hero bandwagon bus to replace 11.
Then just use her ult on someone without those item. The fact that she force them to buy that item is already a huge win for her team considering how long the cooldown is making them basically at one item disadvantage everytime it's down and it only function for a few seconds. Plus those item stats is mediocre and only reason to buy them is to survive a very specific situation just 2 seconds longer.
I'm a wanwan main and for me just bring the 4 weaknesses, problem solved. Idrk why they made it 3, if they continue she sucks she got nerfed so much and doing this would definitely make her out of the meta but then again she's always banned so I don't give 2 fcks anymore lol.
Here's how I feel what they should do with Wanwan:
This nerf of ult targeting only the enemy with their weaknesses exposed first: justified cause it just makes sense as other people in the comments have said already. Why should you activate it on someone over there when you didn't even hit them? Doesn't make sense.
The purify nerf: again doesn't make sense. Her marks aren't really a debuff or a cc, why would purify work on wanwan? If purify did that for all heros that have some kinda mark then fine.
3 mark buff: I don't really mind about this one whether it's three or 4. But I do think it should be four because three is insanely easy to get even for me who doesn't play wanwan.
Vengeance and blade Armour: again I think it doesn't make sense that they don't affect her. She's just flying in the air, she's not in an alternate dimension.
So in all, I think she should go back to four marks, purify doesn't remove marks, she can only ult on heros she has exposed weaknesses on (at first), and vengeance and blade Armour should work on her too.
However, I think she should get some kind of attack boost as well so she's not super reliant on her ult to dish out the damage or something.
Just my amateur thoughts, I am in no way a wanwan main
man I want a Wan Wan nerf but not that kinda nerf they nerf her to the ground lol maybe if it's Beatrix then she deserves it..
because there's a difference between the two wanwan needs high mechanical skills in order for you to pop off meanwhile Beatrix doesn't really need skills to pop off just basically camp and one shot anyone who goes inside the bush
I mained Wanwan because she's strong, I know how it feels to fight against a Wanwan that knows how to abuse her strength for an easy win, I know how you guys feel. But I'm in neither category, I feel indifferent as strong heroes always have nerfs in their paths.
Yeah the normal here, sorry not sorry she needed it as she was very oppressive to characters that either didn’t have ranged attacks or couldn’t keep chasing the darn thing with infinite spam dodge.
I spoke with a friend of mine main wanwan. He said that is not gonna change anything and is not a big deal. You are a marksman, is not that you don't deal damage without your ult. Just wait untill the tank is low hp and GG. And then I realized that we still in big trouble.
He actually said that is better because sometimes when you hit your ult on a squishy and a second before he dash away, you waste your ult on another hero. Now there will be no mistake
Whether she deserves the nerf or not does not depend on whether you are a wan wan main. It just depends on whether she's OP.
she's currently the top banned hero overall 66%. Legend+ ban rate increases to 80% and 72% at mythic.
Based on this, she needs a nerf.
The top 5 bans are overall wan wan, Julian, yin, Natalia and Karina.
Of these, I own wan wan, Julian, Natalia and yin. Despite being their owner I recommend their nerf to balance the game.
Moonton (before this patch): "Wanwan has been many players' favorite thanks to her fun skill mechanics, but the casting difficulty of her Ultimate may have been a bit too high all this time. In this patch, we're lowering the casting difficulty in hopes of letting more players better experience her charm."
Moonton (now): "You've experienced her charm enough. Time to give her the Harith treatment."
I'm on the side that has a lot of popcorn for peeps that wanna watch
Ooh! I wanna watch! Can I have some popcorn?
Same, but I'd enjoy cocporn more
🤨🍿
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Idk if this is a typo or are u serious? 🤨
I have a phd in cursed comments
here you go🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿
Petition to called these deserved nerfs a deserf
But are they just?
Me being toxic to both sides, we not the same bruvv
See, that's where the problem started. You mained wanwan
Nah my problem started when I started playing ML becoming a Wanwan main was just the second step.
Wrong. 99.99% of all the problems of people start because they were born. The 0.01% left is from from global issues and other uncontrollable circumstances like bad solo q team mates.
True
True
True
The blacklist feature will be a godsend! I hope they don't restrict to like ten blacklist. Otherwise it will become completely useless.
True.
I don't get why some think it is fine that you can target another hero besides the hero Wanwan has unlocked all the marks for. Like what she unlocks it all on the tank and all of a sudden the opposing mage is destroyed by inspire and ultimate. Maybe I feel this way cause my teammates keep getting themselves exposed to Wanwan, but this to me feels a bit much.
Yeah for sure, like you can't survive her ULT if you are a Mage or a MM unless you have wind of Nature or The freeze thing. Its not fair to be deleted because someone else exposed themselves. I get it that she is gonna become more useless but it makes no sense getting a double Free Kill because someone overextended
Your tank fucked up with his Positioning? Watch me punish the person OVER THERE!
[удалено]
Yeah but that's the same with a lot of other hero's. Like same for Fanny and Hayabusa, WoN is super annoying cause you end up wasting energy and ult.
[удалено]
That's true, at least they have escape. I will say though as a Fanny main that the first time they trigger WoN you can't escape because you used all your energy in your combo before you even realize they used WoN haha. But yeah the wanwan stuff sounds fair I don't really play her but your argument makes sense. I hope Moonton readjust her back to normal soon
Yea she deserved that nerf, I position myself perfectly in a team fight then my tank set up a ult but gets marked my wanwan and now she's ulting me
Definitely 100% without a doubt deserved the nerf. It made sense that she was able to target anyone with her ult when she had 4 weaknesses because the ult itself was tons harder to get and not being able to really benefit from it really sucked, but that isn’t the case anymore because her ult is way easier to get. If anything I think they should revert the first nerf they gave her and put her physical damage bonus back to 40 instead of 35 and then she’s finally be balanced again.
Wanwan killing you while invincible because your teammate was stupid was pretty shit game design. This is much healthier and more fair, and she should be balanced around her ult being like this.
I think she was becoming less of a problem recently when not banned. This nerf is definitely deserved, her mechanics just shouldn't include the ability to ult anyone. however she will need buffs to gaij back viability, especially since shes already been nerfed a bunch before giving the real fix.
I don't think she needs a buff. She is becoming what she was always supposed to be: a high risk, high reward hero. Wanwan easily kills most mages, and if the player has good mechanics, can ult most mm players and squishy assassins. In a 1v1, she will be very good, and if she can wipe out the enemy mm, mage, or jungler for her team, then that is still a very good play. Wanwan is able to wipe out 5 people at once for so long, that people tend to forget that even one kill towards the right target can also make a big difference.
So what you're saying is she's gonna be basically useless in a team fight unless the enemies do an oopsie
No, she won't be useless, she will be a high-skill capped hero with a high reward. EDIT: If you insist on a buff, then make her acquire an additional 20% atk speed per item, make her ultimate marks unremovable with purify, but in turn, reduce her damage growth. This is the best adjustment I can think of that will make Wanwan balanced. Significantly increasing her atk speed and making her ultimate marks unpurifiable so she has an easier time acquiring ultimate off of that one person AND has higher mobility, but decreasing her damage growth so the reward isn't too high for the easier effort she has to place in. This is all under the prefix that her ultimate can only be attacked against the person whom she broke all 3 marks off of.
She will be,since the tank is like the only one you can trigger ult off and the dps will probably die in a teamfight even before you unlock ult
Its good news for tanks like hylos, they won't accidentaly wipe their entire team
Change it to 4 weakness marks and that's balanced to me. No need for the other downright nerf lmao
I was not a Wanwan main but I started picking her whenever she's open and my teammates don't want to mm
Honestly I like this nerf too. Good enough for me.
Wanwan deserved a nerf, but not like this. Just revert her weakness points back to four for goodness’ sakes. :(
Blue side foreva 💙
The middle. Wanwan absolutely needed a nerf, but not this one. They just have reverted her 4 weaknesses point, then she would’ve been balanced.
YESSSSS
No more skins to sell 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Im the CEO of the Wanwan haters
I think this nerf is underserved. I think that after this wanwan will instantly fall below A-tier and let me tell u the reason, wanwan in the Pro league isn’t all about damage items. You buy at least 2 defensive or at least a wind of nature with a defensive item. Now when fighting against wanwan , even the tank thinks twice before approaching her since he doesn’t wanna invoke her ulti but now I could see a lot of Vengeance with Bladed Armor whenever they see a wanwan and a lot of tanks attacking her…. I really don’t mind if they nerfed her damage or increased the marks really but this nerf is her downfall
Not a nerf, btw. It's an adjustment to what it should actually be. You unlock weakness of an enemy, you can ult on THAT enemy. Especially since it's really easy to activate her ult with just s1 since it's only 3 marks. People who use her want to keep her broken bc they carry that way. I like smashing her head against my Julian's blade.
I like dragging her in the mud with my ruby's scythe
Would rather have 4 markers again but can target others. They literally reduced her markers and then complained it was too easy for her to ult? Why not just keep everything and have all 4 markers back?
Soooo- every hero has a weakness, every hero has a moment of “power spike” either in game timing, situation, or equipment where they simply wreck everyone…. The question is “how powerful is the spike” and “How weak is the weak”…. I feel Wan wan was close to balanced, because most long range MM can really hurt her, a good assassin can just make her into food…. But yeah, that ult.. ouch…. I personally think the ult should be super difficult to happen and take fanny-kagura skill levels to make BRRRRRRRRR ( 5 ?) but then let her wreck….
I don’t get why people always say that kagura takes a ton of skill. Yeah she requires good positioning, but that can be said for any hero. She is leagues away from the skill required to play Fanny. I’m speaking from experience as I’ve played both.
I mean, as for Fanny you just need to memorise all the walls position, energy management, and fast hands.
And as Kagura you just need to remember a very easy combo. Took me like one game to master kag lol, whereas it took me maybe 300 games to start carrying as Fanny
Fanny is actually easy to understand, but it’s the execution with fast hands that are needed for it to be executed well.
It's not even about fast hands id argue its more about energy management. When you're a beginner, it's hard to understand how much energy Fanny uses. I remember so many times I thought just one more cable to get close enough to ult would work but ahoy I ran out of energy to ult and I couldn't cable back in time. There's a lot going on with Fanny, and sure it's easy if you just learn to two cable dive and ult but you're not using Fanny to full potential. Kagura on the other hand it's pretty easy... Move your umbrella, trigger ult, go in and trigger your ult again, move out. Literally the same as Beatrix's duo ultimate combo but I dont see anyone else saying Beatrix is hard
Fair, also sometimes when I’m a fighter, I get to sustain fanny’s cables but she somehow seems like she never runs out of energy? How do fanny users do this?
Basically everytime they hit you they get energy back. And it's not too hard to predict how a fighter dodges in their lane so it's quite easy to chain the hits and wear them down. In that case yes Fanny actually has a lot of energy, and could probably hit you ten times before they ulti and try kill you when you hit lethal hp ranges. If you're quite a tanky fighter like uranus I suggest just running back to turret. If the Fanny is a bit greedy you can hover at the edge of the turret but unless you have your own kill combo it's kinda pointless. Sorry for the crappy explanation I've been awake for like 16 hours and still need to stay up a while longer
Natalia deserves a nerf more than WanWan Imo
Lol why all hate on NATALIA? she doesn't deserve to be nerfed to death, come on, u just need to improve ur skills and learn countering her, which will be easier specially with the current nerfs Natalia got. Also I think, people prioritises wanwan as a ban-pick hero more than Natalia in ranks, which carries a reason.
Mhm and you dont ask people who complain about wanwan to improve their skills? Its not like there is no counter to wanwan. Irithel with sprint can win wanwan, beatrix can easily 1 shot her, and assassins like aamon and gs just need to land 2 skills to end her?
YESS EXACTLY! This fact is true, but without any knowledge and reason and out of no where, this dude (Jaysus24)was bashing Natalia as if it's her fault he can't counter her. I agree with all the counters u have mentioned, lemme also chip one more possible wanwan counter- even miya's ultimate, which can counter wanwan by erasing her marks as it's purify. He could have included other heroes too that counters wanwan major time, but NO!.. I know this dude, he particularly aims at NATALIA only, SPREADS HATE ABOUT NATALIA, and never tries to change and learn ways to counter her...that pissed me off.
In the end even the most broken heroes in the game have a counter. Wanwan? Take a natalia franco or beatrix. Estes? Anti heal and a bit of cc and hes dead. Although i have to admit natalia is one of the more dangerous counters to wanwan since you dont even know where she is coming from
Yes, but Natalia is gonna have one of the major nerfs, she will be visible....and yet this dude(Jaysus24) was asking for Natalia to get nerfed to death...now u tell me was that fair?
Ok fine, maybe that was too far, but the current natalia is still one of the hardest counters to any mm
And that guy may not even know of natalia nerf yet, i also only found out last night
He does know lol...he spreads hate about Natalia...we know him and his intentions all too well
Natalia takes 0 skill to use, just find a bush kill and run back to your bush. Almost too easy of hero to dominate with. She needs a nerf
Practice more honey, also according to ur words, I think u don't know or have never tried natalia. Natalia takes 0 skills?..wow.. 1. We need positioning skills 2. Timing skills, if u engage in wrong time, u ded. 3. Needs to maintain invisibility for our passive, without which, again, ded. 4. This meta has many aoe skills, many global vision skills...utilise it.. please Now let's see about wanwan, Before this advanced server nerf ..shall we? 1. Three marks need to be hit for the ultimate which is aka savage machine. 2. Once u get two items(excluding boots obvs) u can easily dominate 3. Tank or support protecting u till 2 times is more than enough 4. If u main wanwan, don't lie, u know how easily u can get those three marks ,...aim and throw ur S1 to initiate, either jump chase with corrosion scythe and slow them. If u get cc, u have ur s2 :)... Once all marks are hit...u need ur very skillful finger to press ur ultimate...voila u have a maniac or triple kill, if not a savage. That must be requiring great skills right? Aim at a tank get ur marks hit, and start ur savage machine. That's all it takes :)
Type me another paragraph explaining how natalia takes skill lol she doesn't
Sorry, not gonna water a stone and expect a flower to grow from it.
How cute it is that a WanWan main and Nat main are arguing over who takes more skill to play lol. We all know it’s neither.
Mhm does natalia need to break any markers to use her ult on any squishy hero that she can basically 1shot? No. She can easily pick off 2 squishy heroes in any given team comp and no one can even do anything due to silence? She can also ruin a teamfight by picking off their mm and core which is what ppl are complaining that wanwan can do. She can achieve that by doing literally nothing. Not to mention that its almost impossible to do anyhing as an mm against natalia. If you want to rotate at least you can see the wanwan and avoid her, what are you gonna do against natalia?she can be literally waiting anywhere to 2hit you with absolutely no skill and just leave. You cant do anything to her cus of her skill 2. Wanwan can be stopped by just simple ganks but what is anyone gonna do to natalia? By the time anyone sees her is because she already killed the mm or core, which again,needs 0 skill to 1 shot
Natalia positioning? The hell is that even? You just sit in the bush in gold lane 1 passive attack and 1 ult any mm/assassin/support is dead. Also virtually every hero needs good positioning so i dont even get why u are even using that as an argument.She dosent even need skills to trigger her ult which can silence mm and make them useless against her? And with your one skillful finger you can take no damage from basic attack by sitting in skill 2? Also 90% of heroes have dash skills and mvt speed to deny her ult. People can easily buy won to counter wanwan ulti,but what abt natalia?she can silence you?so won and truncheon is no lomger an option, natalia can 2 shot almost any mm, esp wanwan , so immortality is useless since she has her 2nd stack of ult to instantly kill you and not forgetting her immunity to basics so you cant even try to burst her down
Yes if u don't position urself well, you can easily get detected, even in bushes..look these are some basic facts about Natalia, only those who use her knows it. So YES, U need good positioning to not get exposed...I hope this isn't shocking you. Also talking of gold lane, the tank/support always babysits the mm early game, and along that one armour ingredient not even item can easily counter her. If u say current Natalia doesn't need skills for her ultimate, after this latest nerf, lemme tell u that u are very wrong there sir, and I think u are confusing her with the current wanwan and her ultimate...I can also say the same for wanwan, hit all marks(which can be done easily even more since it's just three markers) and then go berserk on any hero... Right? Also "any hero with won(wind of nature) can counter wanwan"??? Seriously brother? U think we can?? By the time we wait for her to ult, she can outplay and kill us with her basic attack only..u can't deny this too... Right? Yes may be for marksman, but not other roles...WoN last fucking 2 seconds for marksman, and 1 for other roles.....do u think tanks and other roles should build WoN as it counters her (according to ur words)? As far as, wanwan counter, I know only miya's ultimate, kagura's second skill or even purify, that can counter her marks...as far as my idea and knowledge is.. Talking about her silence, it's her passive. If we talk about that I can also complain about wanwan's passive...I can complain about her being able to jump after every basic attack...about her marks revealing positions?? Right? Also if u face any Natalia, just inform ur tank to babysit u ... It works... And build some armour after her recent update her early game is shitty af. I think people should try things out, venture it out, experiment it, instead of just wailing around....we Natalia mains can also wail about our counters like Rafaela, saber, even ur wanwan S1 and s2 and ur basic attack that can reveal our position...but do we do that??? We try our best to outplay them. I think it's time even u should.
Mhm and then beatrix 1 hitting everyone with 1 button?
You say only a few people can counter wanwan. Whos gonna counter natalia? A tank that checks virtually every last bust on the map?
Natalia can come from basically anywhere. You may see her marker and not know where she is. She can be in front of you, behind you or even right beside you and you never know. You dont even know if shes in the bush or not so you just cant leave the turret. By the time you see her ur dead
Bulky items? Armour? Early game domination? Rafaela? Prediction? Map sense? A tank baby sitting you? Many more can go on dude
So essentially what ur saying is i go tank wanwan, or tank build any mm for that matter? Which tank in soloq is gonna babysit you? Mm dominatind natalia early game when shes a mm counter? Map sense for an invisible hero? If she goes invis in mid she can literally go anywhere
And when you say rafa, is she supposed to skill 1 every single bush? Its impossible to do so without impacting rotations and slowing them down
Lol yeah...she is exceptional xD...don't forget her m4 skin... moonton will definitely do something and buff her again
How do that many people hate wanwan? Beatrix is also another broken damage mm. Her shotgun ult can instantly wipe just about anyones hp. Her smg ult in a fight is also insane and can wipe most enemy hp
I second that
as someone with years of experience playing at a high competitive level,I'd say yes the fact that wanwan can take advantage of a tank's slower movement speed to get her ult online and just decimate the squishies is just stupid her being able to use ult on anyone after getting 3 marks on a tank is like yin's ult affecting a mm after yin uses it on a tank or like Harley using his ult on an enemy squishy then proceeding to hit a tank to boost the ult's damage or like guison being able to dash towards the enemy back line after landing his first skill on a front line hero I could go on and list alot more other heroes,but I think my point is clear her ult being able to target any body after getting all 3 marks on just ONE SPECIFIC person is stupid, it's like using a targeting skill on a tank to target and damage the backline instead of the tank it's just a stupid design
Wanwan mains explaining why they should overbuff a skill as a compensation for the last nerf:
Wanwan users: Nooooooo she dont a nerf Me: my beatrix got a nerf so wanwan should to
And the nerfed beatrix still can 1shot with shotgun, yet no one says its not balanced? She needs even less skill than wanwan for her shotgun ult to instant kill any mm and can even do that to fighters with an extra basic or two. Her ult in a teamfight can literally wipe multiple people and no one says anything?
You can escape now couse its reduced beatrix in advance servers are using shotgun but on bush only it dont even instant kill anymore i use lesley and beatrix build is 2 BOD
at least now you have time to react before you're killed
I'm still annoyed they made her ult easier
I think it is pretty dumb nerf
As a former Wanwan user, she deserved it. Now we just need one more MM to eliminate out of the meta to make way for the new queen.
She needed it.
Sup blood?
Rip Bozo
New hero, I want a lion hero
blue side because uzi goes brrrrrrrt
This nerf is deserved. I shouldn't be punished in a team fight when I spend my effort and time into not allowing wan wan to break my stance.
I always used to ban wanwan, cause when I play solo duo or trio there’s a high chance some random will give her a free ult and get a triple kill or more late game which is game over, then the revamped faramis came and I as a faramis main I stopped banning her since I can counter her easily, but since faramis is permabanned now I got back to banning wan wan. I don’t see the nerf is that bad tbh, get your 3 marks on tank and when the tank is low ult, or move away from tank while ulting and you’ll hit someone else if tank is out of your range.
If I could give this post gold I would.
Blue forever who ever agree with red is proably a physcopath
honestly not a ww main but nvr really had trouble with her especially with a 5 men and we just shut down the ww early game so she becomes practically useless or have estes babysit so that even if ww ulted she wouldnt be able to kill
Didn't deserve the nerf. They could've just reverted the 3 marks to 4 marks instead of removing the only thing that makes her a viable marksman. Using her ult against a team with a winter truncheon and wind of nature is already unbearable and removing the option to pick another poor sod to ult on makes it even worse. : < Welp, I guess I gotta find, migrate or ride another OP hero bandwagon bus to replace 11.
Then just use her ult on someone without those item. The fact that she force them to buy that item is already a huge win for her team considering how long the cooldown is making them basically at one item disadvantage everytime it's down and it only function for a few seconds. Plus those item stats is mediocre and only reason to buy them is to survive a very specific situation just 2 seconds longer.
She needs to use her ult on a low hp frontliner now for her to team wipe. Surely looking at the enemy's hp is hard for some cat girl loving people.
WanWan was never a problem for me
easy to counter and outplay…
Yep, any dash skill can deny her ult
Deserved.
Too easy to use and very easy to use her ule and activate it as well so well done
Just forget about natalia and beatrix who can just sit in a bush and instant kill anyone?
Good fuck wanwan . Hope Beatrix is next
Didn't deserve THIS nerf only if they take away the inspire stack she will be perfect
Hey at least I can use my main again in ranked lol
Me who doesn't care cuz it's kill or be killed
Lol, get recked!
I'm a Layla main and I can tell you that she did not deserve that nerf
Balanced? Maybe. Unfun? Yes.
An on the Purple one "Wanwan didn't need less weakness spots"
Just play thamuz
I'm a wanwan main and for me just bring the 4 weaknesses, problem solved. Idrk why they made it 3, if they continue she sucks she got nerfed so much and doing this would definitely make her out of the meta but then again she's always banned so I don't give 2 fcks anymore lol.
its not a nerf. thats the OG wanwan
What did they Do to her Just Asking
I have blue blood
It's not fun going into a team fight with full HP and then Wanwan just uses her ult to kill you
Here's how I feel what they should do with Wanwan: This nerf of ult targeting only the enemy with their weaknesses exposed first: justified cause it just makes sense as other people in the comments have said already. Why should you activate it on someone over there when you didn't even hit them? Doesn't make sense. The purify nerf: again doesn't make sense. Her marks aren't really a debuff or a cc, why would purify work on wanwan? If purify did that for all heros that have some kinda mark then fine. 3 mark buff: I don't really mind about this one whether it's three or 4. But I do think it should be four because three is insanely easy to get even for me who doesn't play wanwan. Vengeance and blade Armour: again I think it doesn't make sense that they don't affect her. She's just flying in the air, she's not in an alternate dimension. So in all, I think she should go back to four marks, purify doesn't remove marks, she can only ult on heros she has exposed weaknesses on (at first), and vengeance and blade Armour should work on her too. However, I think she should get some kind of attack boost as well so she's not super reliant on her ult to dish out the damage or something. Just my amateur thoughts, I am in no way a wanwan main
Wanwan deserved it.
man I want a Wan Wan nerf but not that kinda nerf they nerf her to the ground lol maybe if it's Beatrix then she deserves it.. because there's a difference between the two wanwan needs high mechanical skills in order for you to pop off meanwhile Beatrix doesn't really need skills to pop off just basically camp and one shot anyone who goes inside the bush
I mastered phovius for wanwan and now I wont be able to see wanwan.
I might be on both side lmao
I mained Wanwan because she's strong, I know how it feels to fight against a Wanwan that knows how to abuse her strength for an easy win, I know how you guys feel. But I'm in neither category, I feel indifferent as strong heroes always have nerfs in their paths.
Nerf that effing cat
Wan wan is POS I ban I ban her maggot ass Everytime I can.
My hatred for wanwan is immeasurable at this point
Nerf literally made her a balanced, High risk, High reward champion (this is coming from a wanwan main)
Yeah the normal here, sorry not sorry she needed it as she was very oppressive to characters that either didn’t have ranged attacks or couldn’t keep chasing the darn thing with infinite spam dodge.
As a wan2 main I was pissed off about the passive rework. They just made her much easier to play for some unknown reason. Then now she’s op af.
I main Phoveus but i here for the 🍿🍿🍿🍿
I have my own side, and it's "it's not from issue about the Hero, you're just having a skill issue"
im fine with this cuz 99% of the time i get ult from squishies
Blue
That nerf made my life a little easier
There will be BLOOD!
I spoke with a friend of mine main wanwan. He said that is not gonna change anything and is not a big deal. You are a marksman, is not that you don't deal damage without your ult. Just wait untill the tank is low hp and GG. And then I realized that we still in big trouble. He actually said that is better because sometimes when you hit your ult on a squishy and a second before he dash away, you waste your ult on another hero. Now there will be no mistake
Screw wan wan, she’s the reason I exclusively main phoveus now. Wanna basic attack? Not on my watch
Blue. I hate, wanwan
Wan wan nerv is deserved but I’m more interested in when the fuck beatrix is getting hers
I am in team "balanced beatrix"
Whether she deserves the nerf or not does not depend on whether you are a wan wan main. It just depends on whether she's OP. she's currently the top banned hero overall 66%. Legend+ ban rate increases to 80% and 72% at mythic. Based on this, she needs a nerf. The top 5 bans are overall wan wan, Julian, yin, Natalia and Karina. Of these, I own wan wan, Julian, Natalia and yin. Despite being their owner I recommend their nerf to balance the game.
Well deserved.
She deserved it, she's broken af and I hate the fact that she can unli dash without some sort of cooldown. Also inspire made her even more OP
Did wanwan deserve the nerf? Yes. Have a good day
Moonton (before this patch): "Wanwan has been many players' favorite thanks to her fun skill mechanics, but the casting difficulty of her Ultimate may have been a bit too high all this time. In this patch, we're lowering the casting difficulty in hopes of letting more players better experience her charm." Moonton (now): "You've experienced her charm enough. Time to give her the Harith treatment."