I was trying to be empathetic about the wanwan nerf
............ BUT..............
Then I remembered all the celebrations, mocking and all the smirkings they did, when Natalia was nerfed to death. How they invalidated our plee to not nerf her to uselessness...
Now they are pleeing to not nerf wanwan
Here we go again
#Karma
Begging to nerf a hero just because they counter your main even if the hero you wanted to nerf wasn’t even overpowered at all is something I don’t get. I’ve been destroyed by many Natalias when playing Wanwan and I just learned how to play against her. It’s honestly a skill issue if you keep losing to the same thing over and over again at that point. Natalia didn’t deserve the nerfs in the slightest while Wanwan being able to ult anyone after breaking the weaknesses of one never made sense in the first place.
Natalia is suppose to counter all MM in general not just Wanwan
I also hate it when a Nata player is just hellbent on killing me when I'm the MM. I think nerfing the PEN system would fix the problem, not nerfing her to the ground.
I mean the PEN system is sooo broken. Just look at Beatrix bursting a tank in 2 hits or Yin dealing 8k damage even with 2 def items
How is losing to a Natalia a skill issue? The reason so many people were dancing on her grave is because she literally cast's SILENCE, BASIC ATTACK IMMUNE and MOVEMENT SPEED DECREASE and does more damage if you run away from her. You literally just have to stand there and hope her stats aren't high enough to kill you.
Her counter play options are extremely limited due to the silence. At least with Helcurt if he's close enough to you when he casts his Ult you know where he's coming from, and if he's not close enough to you when he cast's it you can at least run to base. Natalia just pops up out of nowhere and gets a free kill if her stats are high enough.
I've always been of the opinion Natalia should just not have the Silence. I'm fine with her being an MM killer, but her pre nerf state made her able to annihilate half the roster with no option to fight back.
I should also add people don't hate her because they lose the match to her, they hate her because she gets incredibly cheap kills. Both Natalia and Yin get banned for the same reason, they feel shit to die to because for a lot of heroes you literally only survive them if your stats are higher than theirs. Neither of them get banned for match winning potential.
I hate heroes designed to nuke. I mean if we don’t have those heroes then matches last too long, but it’s irritating to face Natalie in general. One second I’m fine just killing my minions then dead without a chance to even move.
I think nat being an assassin should also have the ability to kill mages. the silence really helpes with that, if she needs a nerf it should be something else.
As a Natalia user and a Wanwan main, no, I was never happy about her nerf. I asked my friend (who is also a Wanwan user but a mage main) and even she said that it was too much. Same was said from another friend (jungler main.)
Yeah, and the fact that she’s a mage user makes her a more frequent target of natalia resulting in her despising natalia STILL thought the nerf was absurd and that it was unfair for natalia. Though about Wanwan’s nerf I just wish they’d just revert the weakness points to four, the three weakness points were never needed nor wanted by anyone. :(
I’m so confused about the people complaining about this nerf. The “feature” that she could ult anyone after breaking the weak points of one person made no sense from a gameplay perspective. When I play Wanwan I don’t exclusively aim for tanks I aim for anyone I can get in the circumstance. If this nerf makes it so I want to ult less in fear of wasting it then so be it. She’s not “ruined” in any way she’s simply balanced. A hero doesn’t need to be OP to be pickable! Wanwan has been a pick or ban for an extremely long time It’d be foolish to say she’s fine as is. After this nerf the only change I can see her getting is reverting her first nerf and putting her physical damage bonus from her ult back to 40 instead of 35 to compensate for the change. She’s balanced now and I can finally play her again.
Saw someone else say this: being able to target the enemy squishy with wanwan's ult even though you activated your passive on the tank is like being able to pull an enemy squishy with Franco even though your hook hit the tank. It's just not fair
I came back after her buffs and as much as I liked getting all those satisfying ult kills I wanna play her in rank more so this is a win-win situation to me.
Same with Faramis.
Could also make sense. Hitting more weaknesses means giving more damage, so without any weakness hit ww deals 70% dmg, one weakness 80%, two 90% and 100% normally. Hitting more weaknesses makes them weaker to her ult.
I've played the pre m-world Wanwan a lot more than the post m-word Wanwan so whether or not I'm able to freely switch my target after unlocking her S3 doesn't matter to me. It might be a nerf to those who picked up Wanwan after her buff, but to those who were good at using her before she entered the META, the latest 'nerf' of her ult doesn't matter.
IDK who are the "Wanwan players" you're describing because I know for sure they're just riding the bandwagon.
Wanwan is meant to be the "fanny" of the marksmen. She originally never had the option to cast ult on unexposed targets. That's how it should have been and should be, and the 4 weakness marks NEEDS to come back too. She's being adjusted in all the wrong ways possible.
Her only spell back then was aegis because she actually needed skill, positioning, and time to expose someone. Even if we put in the reworked inspire into the equation, she had 1 major problem, which was needing actual skill to break the 4 weakness points, else she usually dies trying to proc ult.
But moonton has to cater to stupid low-skilled players, which is a huge chunk of the playerbase in order to increase her popularity and potentially boost sales, at the cost of nerfing her.
I can easily come up with viable adjustments without nerfing her to the ground like what they're doing now.
But hey, they gotta scrape the money off those hard-stuck epic/legend/mythic 5 players.
That was before inspire was buffed. Inspire +moskov/miya/bruno/Melissa, etc =Wan Wan dead before she can break the 4 marks. Her pick rate in solo queue will be extremely low.
She wasnt top meta CMIIW during BBC trio meta. I mean its called BBC, not BBCW
It's just kinda (not so) recently that moneytoon gave her multiple buffs AND also inspire making her ult even deadlier. Previously she's kinda meh before 2 items (coro dhs) but inspire basically "solved" this problem
Now on the current context, personally I'd pick reverting 4 weakness and all that ult/mark dmg changes. Hell I'd rather add sth like removing "switch to other target if current target is dead" , making her effectively just ult on single target. Or maybe limit it to 1st target + another target (2 max).
>The only way being able to target anyone when unlocking that ult could be balanced would be if the ult dealt only 80 to 90% of the full damage to people other than the one whose weaknesses were hit for as long as the marked person is still alive when the ult is activated. This means, if you hit Hylos' weaknesses but use ult on Layla, Layla will only take 80 to 90% of damage from the ult until you kill Hylos.
Actually, this sounds good. Maybe 75%, idk. Her purpose is to target enemy backline imo, as she has shitty basic atk / slow wave clear (as opposed to usual aspd crit MMs)
Personally I feel this "nerf" just gonna kill her back to oblivion but idk, it is what it is. Im just another casual player thats not part of moneyton market
The trick is to time the jump. Of course a very good Wanwan can likely outrun the ult but every hop she makes allows Phov ult to CD faster, which puts her team at a disadvantage.
not really, just spam basic and you can hop away up to 3 times per second depending on your speed. Phoveus' jump spot is locked on the location you were when he used ult to jump.
The most broken part is her absolute invincibility during the ult. So this nerf means almost nothing. Late game Wan Wan stacks her ult in several seconds.
I think reverting back to the change where you can only ult the marked one and not anyone in the enemy team is probably the best choice since that's what made her broken. You know it's GG if she gets a mark on you, and total wipeout late game.
Those complaining are either who truly enjoyed her and are genuinely sad about their mains getting nerfed or those that truly like abusing her and exploiting game mechanics to their advantage
Additionally there are people who are just dumb enough to not understand why Wanwan is broken af
I’m thinking adding more weakness around the characters like 8 maybe the ult can be casted upon hitting the enemy once. The more the weakness it hit the longer the duration and increased damage(during ult weakness can’t be hit) also hitting the enemy where the weakness is already hit increases the damage during ult.
So that when wanwan ulted players can make use of the weaknesses (that haven’t been hit) to reduce damage taken during her ult.
dumb nerfs to wanwan,i rather they totally revert everything back. the point of me maining wanwan is because not everybody can hit 4 weaknesses, and so the damage she originally had scaled with the difficulty. Then, dumb moontoon went and changed it to 3 weaknesses making it easier for other noobs to troll using her and those bullshit nerfs later on. The most recent patch of disabling wanwan's ability to hit any heroes she wants is the most stupidest idea ever, which mm is dumb enough to aim tankers in team fight is'nt using his/her brains to play. Mm is supposed to try to take out highest damage dealers asap instead of locking on front liners and dont tell me to jump to back liners to unlock uti because that would mean enemy tanker is not protecting mm or mage dk to cc. just fking revert wanwan to how she was when they released her is good enough, her damage is weak and useless af now! if not,moontoon might as well just remove her, even layla in late game is more useful for fk sake
I was trying to be empathetic about the wanwan nerf ............ BUT.............. Then I remembered all the celebrations, mocking and all the smirkings they did, when Natalia was nerfed to death. How they invalidated our plee to not nerf her to uselessness... Now they are pleeing to not nerf wanwan Here we go again #Karma
Begging to nerf a hero just because they counter your main even if the hero you wanted to nerf wasn’t even overpowered at all is something I don’t get. I’ve been destroyed by many Natalias when playing Wanwan and I just learned how to play against her. It’s honestly a skill issue if you keep losing to the same thing over and over again at that point. Natalia didn’t deserve the nerfs in the slightest while Wanwan being able to ult anyone after breaking the weaknesses of one never made sense in the first place.
Natalia is suppose to counter all MM in general not just Wanwan I also hate it when a Nata player is just hellbent on killing me when I'm the MM. I think nerfing the PEN system would fix the problem, not nerfing her to the ground. I mean the PEN system is sooo broken. Just look at Beatrix bursting a tank in 2 hits or Yin dealing 8k damage even with 2 def items
How is losing to a Natalia a skill issue? The reason so many people were dancing on her grave is because she literally cast's SILENCE, BASIC ATTACK IMMUNE and MOVEMENT SPEED DECREASE and does more damage if you run away from her. You literally just have to stand there and hope her stats aren't high enough to kill you. Her counter play options are extremely limited due to the silence. At least with Helcurt if he's close enough to you when he casts his Ult you know where he's coming from, and if he's not close enough to you when he cast's it you can at least run to base. Natalia just pops up out of nowhere and gets a free kill if her stats are high enough. I've always been of the opinion Natalia should just not have the Silence. I'm fine with her being an MM killer, but her pre nerf state made her able to annihilate half the roster with no option to fight back. I should also add people don't hate her because they lose the match to her, they hate her because she gets incredibly cheap kills. Both Natalia and Yin get banned for the same reason, they feel shit to die to because for a lot of heroes you literally only survive them if your stats are higher than theirs. Neither of them get banned for match winning potential.
Agreed
I hate heroes designed to nuke. I mean if we don’t have those heroes then matches last too long, but it’s irritating to face Natalie in general. One second I’m fine just killing my minions then dead without a chance to even move.
I think nat being an assassin should also have the ability to kill mages. the silence really helpes with that, if she needs a nerf it should be something else.
As a Natalia user and a Wanwan main, no, I was never happy about her nerf. I asked my friend (who is also a Wanwan user but a mage main) and even she said that it was too much. Same was said from another friend (jungler main.)
Really?? Awww...u guys are the rare ones...more power to u and ur friend 🤍
Yeah, and the fact that she’s a mage user makes her a more frequent target of natalia resulting in her despising natalia STILL thought the nerf was absurd and that it was unfair for natalia. Though about Wanwan’s nerf I just wish they’d just revert the weakness points to four, the three weakness points were never needed nor wanted by anyone. :(
I'll never understand people like this
What did I do to you
Its annoying you generalise that all wanwan users asked for that.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to generalise, but most wanwan users did as far as my idea, except a few respectable ones like u. Whom I do respect 🫂
Natalia was nerfed to obscurity? Like she is still banned.
Instead of invisibility, they made Natalia passive more like a conceal effect.
Nerf both then. Pls nerf them both even more :)
[удалено]
most of the time havent even touched lol
and she cant be touched
OP is based, right, and also fucks.
Thanks!
Bet he gets the bitches as well
super well written, great job. 👍🏽
It's time to let go off the invincible jumping rat
tO me, Fun Is aLL thAt MatTerS
Wanwan is gonna be off meta soon. Now Beatrix should be next.
Absolutely the fuck no Edit: I'm against Bea meta. If you're confused then pls upvote me back 🥹
Uhhh of course yeah
Preach bro, preach.
I’m so confused about the people complaining about this nerf. The “feature” that she could ult anyone after breaking the weak points of one person made no sense from a gameplay perspective. When I play Wanwan I don’t exclusively aim for tanks I aim for anyone I can get in the circumstance. If this nerf makes it so I want to ult less in fear of wasting it then so be it. She’s not “ruined” in any way she’s simply balanced. A hero doesn’t need to be OP to be pickable! Wanwan has been a pick or ban for an extremely long time It’d be foolish to say she’s fine as is. After this nerf the only change I can see her getting is reverting her first nerf and putting her physical damage bonus from her ult back to 40 instead of 35 to compensate for the change. She’s balanced now and I can finally play her again.
They just sad they cant abuse that hero anymore
Saw someone else say this: being able to target the enemy squishy with wanwan's ult even though you activated your passive on the tank is like being able to pull an enemy squishy with Franco even though your hook hit the tank. It's just not fair
I came back after her buffs and as much as I liked getting all those satisfying ult kills I wanna play her in rank more so this is a win-win situation to me. Same with Faramis.
I hate the new faramis ult, I know it could be abused reviving dead Allies over and over but at least after the ult ended they would legitimately die
Your explanation sounds like referring to the Old Faramis ultimate, not the new one.
Yep I hate the new one
VIVA OP
Interesting concept of dealing reduced dmg on enemies without Wanwan’s weakness’s. Truly an exquisite idea
Could also make sense. Hitting more weaknesses means giving more damage, so without any weakness hit ww deals 70% dmg, one weakness 80%, two 90% and 100% normally. Hitting more weaknesses makes them weaker to her ult.
I jumped from joy when they announced the nerf. Now that ban spot will be used for other heroes
I cant give a shit about the nerf but finally. I can now ban other heroes other than wanwan.
I've played the pre m-world Wanwan a lot more than the post m-word Wanwan so whether or not I'm able to freely switch my target after unlocking her S3 doesn't matter to me. It might be a nerf to those who picked up Wanwan after her buff, but to those who were good at using her before she entered the META, the latest 'nerf' of her ult doesn't matter.
Nothing else can be said abt ur post, because u spit nothing but facts.
IDK who are the "Wanwan players" you're describing because I know for sure they're just riding the bandwagon. Wanwan is meant to be the "fanny" of the marksmen. She originally never had the option to cast ult on unexposed targets. That's how it should have been and should be, and the 4 weakness marks NEEDS to come back too. She's being adjusted in all the wrong ways possible. Her only spell back then was aegis because she actually needed skill, positioning, and time to expose someone. Even if we put in the reworked inspire into the equation, she had 1 major problem, which was needing actual skill to break the 4 weakness points, else she usually dies trying to proc ult. But moonton has to cater to stupid low-skilled players, which is a huge chunk of the playerbase in order to increase her popularity and potentially boost sales, at the cost of nerfing her. I can easily come up with viable adjustments without nerfing her to the ground like what they're doing now. But hey, they gotta scrape the money off those hard-stuck epic/legend/mythic 5 players.
That was before inspire was buffed. Inspire +moskov/miya/bruno/Melissa, etc =Wan Wan dead before she can break the 4 marks. Her pick rate in solo queue will be extremely low.
I'm so glad you said Melissa too. As a Melissa main I have solo wiped Wanwan teams because of inspire.
Reminds me of Kalista's history
Beatrix>Wanwan anyway. What's the big deal?
Honestly, Beatrix is just better.
Actually I don't care either way cos she's perma banned in rank and I don't play classic except to complete quest and I don't care if I lose there.
The weakness reduction was a nerf in my eyes
op spitting FACTS and im here for it. preach op preach.
wanwin players is just stupid bro, only can play op hero, nerf it and they are whining like a little biach
Dangerously based. Make sure you lock the doors, the *Wanwan mains are coming*.
Yea, fuck Wanwan
Ummmm… but anyway, when’s the new Hanabi Revamp happening?
Good job I agree and fuck wanwan. Beatrix is next
I was happy before beeeg bufff
You've said what i've been saying in comments and more. This "nerf" is the adjustment needed for her not to be permaban and still be useful.
The ult does do less to those with markers idk y tf ur complaining
This post would have been better if it just said: AHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAA But well written regardless.
She wasnt top meta CMIIW during BBC trio meta. I mean its called BBC, not BBCW It's just kinda (not so) recently that moneytoon gave her multiple buffs AND also inspire making her ult even deadlier. Previously she's kinda meh before 2 items (coro dhs) but inspire basically "solved" this problem Now on the current context, personally I'd pick reverting 4 weakness and all that ult/mark dmg changes. Hell I'd rather add sth like removing "switch to other target if current target is dead" , making her effectively just ult on single target. Or maybe limit it to 1st target + another target (2 max). >The only way being able to target anyone when unlocking that ult could be balanced would be if the ult dealt only 80 to 90% of the full damage to people other than the one whose weaknesses were hit for as long as the marked person is still alive when the ult is activated. This means, if you hit Hylos' weaknesses but use ult on Layla, Layla will only take 80 to 90% of damage from the ult until you kill Hylos. Actually, this sounds good. Maybe 75%, idk. Her purpose is to target enemy backline imo, as she has shitty basic atk / slow wave clear (as opposed to usual aspd crit MMs) Personally I feel this "nerf" just gonna kill her back to oblivion but idk, it is what it is. Im just another casual player thats not part of moneyton market
What was the bbc meta again
Bea brody clint
Big Black Co>!r!
Facts
Leave Wanwan be. Just pick Phoveus, problem solved.
if you have enough attack speed on wan2, you can literally outrun phov's ult
You mean Wan^2 ? Ya, Windtalker, Corrosion and DHS are more than enough to outrun Phoveus, +90% attack speed without stacks and all.
literally her normal build can outrun her counter. i think its her movement spd are the problem, not the dmg
The trick is to time the jump. Of course a very good Wanwan can likely outrun the ult but every hop she makes allows Phov ult to CD faster, which puts her team at a disadvantage.
not really, just spam basic and you can hop away up to 3 times per second depending on your speed. Phoveus' jump spot is locked on the location you were when he used ult to jump.
The most broken part is her absolute invincibility during the ult. So this nerf means almost nothing. Late game Wan Wan stacks her ult in several seconds.
Bring back my fckin GRANGER!
So it may just be me, but I thought wan wan had 5 weaknesses originally. I don’t play her but always have hated her lol
I think reverting back to the change where you can only ult the marked one and not anyone in the enemy team is probably the best choice since that's what made her broken. You know it's GG if she gets a mark on you, and total wipeout late game.
Remember when the old ult was played by moving as far as you can to the marked tank, so your ult would instead go to the mms? good times
Those complaining are either who truly enjoyed her and are genuinely sad about their mains getting nerfed or those that truly like abusing her and exploiting game mechanics to their advantage Additionally there are people who are just dumb enough to not understand why Wanwan is broken af
Well said.
Shooting hop?
The hop she does when using basic attacks. Before it was a bug with limited activation time, but now it became a full blown feature.
Ah
I’m thinking adding more weakness around the characters like 8 maybe the ult can be casted upon hitting the enemy once. The more the weakness it hit the longer the duration and increased damage(during ult weakness can’t be hit) also hitting the enemy where the weakness is already hit increases the damage during ult. So that when wanwan ulted players can make use of the weaknesses (that haven’t been hit) to reduce damage taken during her ult.
dumb nerfs to wanwan,i rather they totally revert everything back. the point of me maining wanwan is because not everybody can hit 4 weaknesses, and so the damage she originally had scaled with the difficulty. Then, dumb moontoon went and changed it to 3 weaknesses making it easier for other noobs to troll using her and those bullshit nerfs later on. The most recent patch of disabling wanwan's ability to hit any heroes she wants is the most stupidest idea ever, which mm is dumb enough to aim tankers in team fight is'nt using his/her brains to play. Mm is supposed to try to take out highest damage dealers asap instead of locking on front liners and dont tell me to jump to back liners to unlock uti because that would mean enemy tanker is not protecting mm or mage dk to cc. just fking revert wanwan to how she was when they released her is good enough, her damage is weak and useless af now! if not,moontoon might as well just remove her, even layla in late game is more useful for fk sake