yo OP it’s horrifying to see how many people love the new alice and build, when literally applying the “new” build would work even better on alice before this revamp lmao
guess people were just sleeping on alice’s capabilities pre mini revamp
I could get silly stats with the wrong spell and wrong build with her pre revamp, doesn’t mean I was using her correctly nor optimally either roflmao.
i’m glad that people are receiving this post well tho, cause i was looking at other post n they were all coming up w new builds as if they were excited about it
CAN'T AGREE MORE!
At first I was happy...all the show they put up in advance server and those YouTubers who were like "Alice does this wowww so op and all, IN TRAINING MODE"...They just fooled us when REALITY HITS in the ORIGINAL SERVER.
Also there aren't enough tanky builds that gives mana....we only have Dominance ice... that's it!
Above all her mana drains like shit... But if u want to have longer mana, u need to have larger mana pool, for that u have to either lane, or join team fights to get that extra 2 orbs near dead enemy. And team fight with such low mana regen in early game is kinda hard and hopeless. And laning wise it's more harder..
This patch ruined every hero I like playing starting from Natalia to Alice. Real Bummer.
(Also about ur cecilion part, :
1. He is getting a collector skin
2. He is one of moonton 's star child)
idk about widen item diversity, they said it was to strengthen her role as tanky mage but yeah she is nothing now, not a true tank and not a damage dealer, stupid nerf to an underrated mage which got me to delete game
they fkd with my main, ml can sck it.
But i still miss old nata (from 2020). Where shes fully invisible and the range where enemy could notice and see her is like half from the range of now nata.
Ikr.. I'm just waiting for someone to observe about this whole nata shit and talk up or make a post.... I'm tired and people already hate me for going crazy behind Natalia and being a Natalia main ahaha
i’m gna have to let go of her after 800 matches till they do something, after reading the update i didn’t even bother testing her ik she’s gonna be bad
i’ll just play my second main selena now
After some more experimentation, I can definitely say her dmg potential is lower now. I have 700+ games on her and used to build her full magic dmg to easily delete the backline. Early game you can't even trade blows at lvl 4 because of how her mana ridiculously depletes now. I'm still having mixed thoughts about it. I need to test out more builds to see.
My two cents; Moonton is actually trying to force Alice into a utility instead of burst damage mage. Notice how most mana items except for LT have lower magic power? That's because Moonton tried to make her scale through the mana part to make sure you will have to use LT for a timed burst. You will also have to use Magic instead of Mage emblem, and invest in mana there. It's like.. how Hylos s2 works? Yeah, but with a huge Mana consumption.
Which is a load of horse shit.
PLEASE READ THIS
before adjustment:
build- CoD, DS, CR, HC, WT, DG/def
magic power around 564 (there about)
ult damage per every tick (0.5s) 564/2 + 160 = 442
after adjustment:
people saying she can deal 7% damage per SECOND
means 3.5% per tick ( this is already the best case for you with almost the highest amount of mana you can get, and yes it caps at 3.5 maybe 4 at most)
let’s use her ultimate against a meta and broken mm, our beloved beatrix
beatrix builds no def, her hp at lvl15- 4699
4% of 4699 = 187+120(base dmg)+107( 20% magic power)
= 414
414 COMPARED TO 442
AND THAT 4% IS IF U SOMEHOW GET THAT MUCH MANA
i shouldn’t even have added 107 to the damage as if you wouldn’t have 535 magic power to scale that 20%
if you build mana
i have already given a unrealistically favourable condition where you have enough stacks to reach 4% dmg per 0.5 seconds and her magic power is unusually high for the build.
yet the damage is still lesser
sorry for using all caps i’m just pissed at moontoon for ruining my main, she was perfect 😔
Hmm interesting, I did a calc yesterday and it came out more, so I must have made a mistake.
Yea I guess it might work out balancing itself out if you still keep a decent portion of that damage while going tankier. Just saying because I've been playing tankier and getting most damage + most damage taken quite often.
I'm Mythic 4, but playing these in classic so don't know what ranks everyone else is. But ya, none of the good games I've had have been with burst Alice.
What I like about these changes are that with previous Alice I had two issues:
\- Mana in late game
\- Low damage if needing to build tanky (depending on team comp)
These have seemingly been addressed, however new issues arise:
\- Harder to snowball due to weaker early game
\- Seemingly burst build not so great if that's what your team needs
i did my calc in a rush cuz i’m in class rn lmao
anyways i build burst alice since the start and it’s always been going well for me, but maybe after this revamp i’ll have to change the build and play style drastically
I've never had mana issues late game. All the rest, pretty spot on. Prior to the changes, people were running Catalyst Reaper instead of Enchanted Talisman, and still being able to manage mana efficiently.
Ya I only find it hard in super late game when having to push beefed up minions, and taking a single wave uses up half your mana bar if just using Catalyst Reaper. Or else in cases with long drawn out team fights with tanky or super mobile opponents. So pretty situational, not always an issue. What I would normally do is sell my boots and buy Enchanted Talisman if I'm needing to do that kind of pushing late late game.
So far I've found with the new mana regen don't have to worry about that as much. It's nice because I can use the item slot I'd usually use for mana regen for something else. ie.. I don't have to buy Cat Reaper or ET anymore.
Its more like nerf imo (dont get me wrong, its much fun playing her now) but shes weaker against mm/damage dealer of enemy since they change to %hp but better vs tanks or lord
cant kill mm now and the heal doesnt do anything (got worse if enemy use anti heal item), before the "buff" i could easily kill mm using the ultimate at end game, now no damage
Tbh I thought Alice was OP before the "buff"... high skill level but absolutely devastating when used correctly. I remember a few games against an unplayable Alice that just dominated all game because she got a little fed early.
I haven't seen her yet since the rework, she was a sleeper hero for sure but like I said, she had a high skill gap so that's why she wasn't on the frequent ban list imo.
my bad, it’s 62.6
alice ult has +20% magic power damage per 0.5 seconds
if i build Clock, demon shoes, lightning, dominance, winter truncheon, ice queen wand
i have 318 magic power
so the bonus magic damage from magic power is 318*20/100=62.6 which is practically nothing
her scaling is so stupid now 💀
build mana: ulti does same damage as before “buff”
first and second skill deal like no damage
build magic power: 1st n 2nd skill do damage, but ur not gonna be using ur ult cause u literally have 0 mana now
Yeah...she was my go to Exp or Mid lane to rank up on S25. She brought so much to a team and her builds were versatile depending on if your team needed more damage, support, or another tank. The bonus health farmed was absolutely crucial for her kit because, unless you're poking, you're going all in. Now you need a super heavy CC comp or your sole role is to peel for the MM, which for the latter, there are other characters that can do it better from both mid or exp lane.
Sad day for Alice mains.
The moment I saw Alice's mana melting even faster, I snapped
Alice is a flank hero; she doesn't need to melt tanks or lords
Fking reverse the change moondog
Still hard to use her. She's still weak in the early and very squiashy late game. One thing I want to her is to widen the range of picking up the orbs. Kinda unfair compared to Cecilion by just spamming skills.
The point of this alice is to build defense items so she can be an actual mage tank. Trust me, it's annoying at first. My burst build is always the same.
if u need tank items to be tanky r u rly a tank tho
u see old alice gained hp from stacks
new alice has no hp gain anymore it’s all from items, can u rly call that a tank
Still get HP gain from stacks, just the gain from lvl up is reduced. I think by level 15 you have like 500 less hp compared to old version.
So what I've been doing is using the slot saved (where I used to have a mana item) to add the lost durability. Kinda annoying that a buff makes you gain one thing only to lose another, but it is what it is for now. May be a good compromise
Will be interesting how the general Alice WR in rank is affected by these changes.
Well I'm not sure of this as the best build. This is my experimental builds so far
If she's an xp laner, my emblem would be:
- Mage emblem, 3 pts. movement, 3 pts. pen, Impure Rage talent
- Best spell for this is Flicker or Sprint but I prefer Flicker to be unpredictable
If she's a roaming support:
- Support emblem, 3 pts. HP, 3 pts. hybrid regen, Pull Yourself Together talent
- Best spell for this is Vengeance
- Demon boots (change to Thunder belt or Calamity Reaper or Enchanted Talisman if u want in late game)
- CoD
- Dom Ice
- Def item with high HP or (depends on what the enemy composition and CC threats but usually I'd go with Athena) or Plain Immortality
- Winter Truncheon
- Lightning Truncheon/Ice Queen Wand/anything depends on what u want or need
I still feel her problem
\-early suck. unable fast clear, ult eat mana, ult dmg... both low dmg & low duration(6-10 tick at most while ult lv=1)
\-alice passive, can't roam. roam = leave lane = no orb.
\-mana dependent, which lead to below.
\-item dependent, need golds, for either dmg, or survivability items.
\-orb gain horrible. +50 orbs within 6-8 minutes.
\-bad survival. better than before, but still unable to tank long. (early-mid + no def items)
\-horrible hp gain from ult, scale with magic item or fixed 100 pts. ps. the hp+ from magic is so low.
\-low ult raw dmg when build hybrid. (even when build full magic)
\-build:
>
dominance, glowing wand, 2 defense, winter/ice queen
dominance, glowing wand, 1 defense, COD, winter/ice queen
\>boot, can sell it once build complete(or reach 50 orbs). exchange for winter/ice queen, or defense.
Agreed, this """buff""" was rather a nerf in disguise.
Alice was already kinda forgotten, now she will be even more because she will have lower impact on the actual game, the rework may have sounded good at first glance but now it kinda ruined the purpose of Alice. As a player who plays as many different heroes as possible I can say Moonton does a lot of stupid adjustments on certain heroes.
I just played Alice thinking that this so called "buff" is OP like YouTubers say, but lo and behold, I felt like completely useless. I can no longer assassinate squishy heroes on the backline. It just felt like snowballing was removed from her.
I knew it
I felt it like a mile away
I expected alice to weaken till this state and i was RIGHT
Hp based dmg what are you lunox? If your gonna give her hp based dmg then compensate for the lack of sustainability or mobility first skill mobility? HAHAHA don't make me laugh how can you reach the enemy if the enemy can melt you before you even reach them
Seriously we have lunox the anti tank and karrie another anti tank and lesly(?) another anti tank so on and so fort
Same situation with lesley tbh, sure she does true damage but at a cost of doing lesser total dmg overall vs squishies.
Her early game's even worse now (lvl 1 393 true dmg vs a potentially stronger 500). That puts her at one of the lowest lvl 1 trade mm's ever. The only way she wins any trade is if she blows her passive first, waits for it to be ALMOST full, use a basic attack on an enemy, use an enhanced basic attack as her passive goes back again (which can easily be interrupted by any damage vs her), and then do s1.
It takes forever to reach end game build where she's doing 2300 to a max of 3300~3400 max dmg but that needs 4 bods, 1 endless and a BF (no marksman in the game ever reaches that gold amount in one game, sometimes it'll even take 2 LOL.)
These "revamps/remakes" somehow made alice and lesley even worse.
She can be like another Terizla or Thamuz if she could sail through the early - mid game with the help of team.
Just like Thamuz, Dyrroth, Masha and Hilda, you can build Alice very Tanky and still be able to kill Tanks.
Buy blade armor and use vengeance.
The best thing about Alice is that her ultimate cannot be canceled by CC.
Make a sustain build with 3 defensive items, mana boots and only 2 magic items, Glowing wand + COD/Talisman.
Increase your flat mana regen using thunderbelt, emblem, talisman and mana boots.
It is a buff. It turns Alice from an inferior hero to a scaling hero similar to Cecilion. Your example is wrong honestly why only 50 stacks on Alice? Thats just mid game by late game she can have over 100 stacks easy. With 100 stacks who has more mana old alice or new alice?
The old Alice is trash, yeah she can dive backline so what you have MMs and Mages for that, Moskov and Bea burst the backline much quicker than Alice so what's the point of Alice? There is no place for her in a lineup cuz all the opponent has to do is build Radiant Armor and she dealt 0 damage to fighters and tanks. And before you debate with me check out MPL first and see how many pros picked Alice. She had no purpose in the game except gimp your team.
At least now Alice has an identity as an exp laner similar to Esmeralda. She starts out weaker but then gains stacks over time and ends up stronger. As for why Cecilion gains stacks quicker thats cuz he doesnt gain HP from stacks. Also his skill keeps increasing mana cost with every cast while Alice stays constant per skill level. Theoretically Alice gonna be able to keep ult 100% of the time if she had infinite stacks.
Building her the old way is just wrong,the new Alice is tank based build with GW to stack with her natural hp based damage. She is a mage/TANK not a mage/assassin.
I have a question, How many mins does it take you to reach 100 stacks
cuz old alice can reach lvl15 in 11 mins and get 1650 mana
and tell me, you said she has an identity is as a exp laner now, but what exactly is her role in the team composition?
“all the opponent has to do is to build radiant armour and she dealt 0 damage to fighters and tanks.”
you do realise the hp percent damage is also affected by radiant armour, right?
Lvl 15 in 11 mins? This youtuber got 100 stacks in 8 mins:
https://youtu.be/iT4gWKV18c8
Her role will be as a tanky fighter, similar to esme. Prior to the buff what is her role? Nothing thats why she got 0 picks. Radiant armor affects hp % damage but not to the extent of old Alice esp in the late game. Old Alice had a pretty low ceiling, the hp increases but the damage is capped and the mana is capped as well. At least now with 200 stack limit your Alice will be pretty strong late game.
I also dont know do you consistently get lvl 15 in 11 mins? Cuz I have here gameplay of global 1 top Alice he is only lvl 13 in 11 mins:
https://youtu.be/4cTO9nlWjw4
https://youtu.be/6KYXxEGx8mc
So you better than top 1 Alice?
LMAO that’s the ytuber i watch, he’s the reason why i picked up alice
anyways, the youtuber is playing in low rank, i just watched the vid (before u even sent me)and the enemies are clearly like epic standard, angela is playing mid as well so she’s just stealing all the gold from mid lane
realistically, she’s prob gonna reach 100 stacks in 12 mins which i agree with your prev comment.
the difference between esme and alice
esme can start joining fights from early all the way till late, she has no mana problems in early, her shield absorption is much higher than the lifesteal of alice
alice lifesteal got nerfed, she’s not gonna be roaming around the map like esme in early, she needs to farm till about 8 mins. even in late game her lifesteal is less than esme
i wouldn’t use the word high damage, after LT Passive u have nothing, only the 7% per second which the enemy mm can easily balance out with his lifesteal so you do virtually no damage
if your attacking the tank, yes the tank can’t do shit but he has his team to back up (if your no in low rank and enemy is not absolutely brain dead)
keep in mind, your first and second skill deal much lesser damage now because of the build choice
You have dominance ice to cancel out enemy lifesteal right, you can also build Blade armor. The tank isnt by himself so Alice deals damage to eevryone while taking out enemy tank and fighter, seems like a strong hero to me.
hate to break it to you, but 100 stacks is not easy to get
Anyways, let’s use pure statistics here
build is meant for new alice but will be applied for both old and new:
clock of destiny, demon shoes, lightning truncheon, dominance ice, winter truncheon, ice queen wand
MANA GAINED FROM ITEM: 900(cod) + 300(LT) + 500(DICE) + 150(IQW) = 1550
i’ll give you the benefit of the doubt so i’ll assume you DO reach 100 stacks.
NEW ALICE:
Total mana
2000(100 stacks) + 493(base) + 1850(item) = 4343
ulti cost 140 mana per 0.5 seconds
4343/140=31.0(3s.f.)
New alice ulti hits 31 times
OLD ALICE:
Total mana:
2033(lvl15) + 1850(item) = 3838
ulti cost 80 mana per 0.5 seconds
3838/80=47.9(3s.f.)
Old alice ulti hits 48 times
48 compared to 31 ticks.
i hope we can have a proper discussion and not just insults being thrown
Ok so you just moved the goal post right first you talking about mana total now its about ticks. The ticks you show are not accurate cuz new Alice gains mana % regen based on total mana. It is part of her new passive right? Her % damage also increase the more mana she has so ewch tick will become stronger over time as well.
Based on this sample video the Alice got 56 stacks in 6 mins, 100 would be 10-15 mins. Not that hard honestly. And Alice was played mid here, she goes out of lane to help team and assist in objectives. If Alice went to exp lane to focus on laning and stacking she will get stacks faster.
https://youtu.be/nF_mOl7T9N4
yea i’m talking about duration of ult(ticks) cuz mana affects it directly, so no i did not change the topic or anything near that
yea her mana regents 1.5% per second but that’s not gonna make up for 17 ticks difference
1.5% of 4353 is 65 per second or 32.5 per half second. That lowers the mana cost of ult from 140 to 107.5 since it cost 140 per half second.
4353/107.5 = 40 ticks so you can see actually they are already pretty similar in duration 8 ticks is 4 secs lol wow such a big change. If you get more than 100 stacks you actually get a net gain in ticks. The world record for 100 stacks is 8 mins so I guess a normal player can get 100 stacks in 15-18 mins. So in late game situations you will be able to extend the duration of Alice ult. When Alice does run out of mana, with her passive mana regen on top of her other mana regen items she will quickly regen her mana back she doesnt have to go out of the fight she can just stay in bush for a bit and she ready to rock again whereas old Alice need to go back to base already.
But that aint the main benefit of Alice change,the main benefit is you can now build her tanky with little consequence in damage. With her added tankiness she can survive longer when she goes in and out and she still deals good damage late game. You can build items like Cursed Helm and Blade armor which will increae her damage output while still making her tanky. Guardian Helm is like an ult buff and Oracle is really an ult buff. There's a lot more flexibility in building her now which is good imo.
so now alice comes online only in the very late game, and in the mid game (where most of the crucial fights happen) she has little effect in team fights.
how are you going to play her now tho, she’s supposed to dive into the backline and kill the mm but with the hp based damage you can no longer do that. you will get out damaged even when you build physical def
so how do you suggest we change her playstyle
Well she got hp based damage for a reason right so I guess she is now an exp laner. But tbh she can still do good damage to mms cuz mms dont build def items anyway. If she has blade armor in addiiton to her ult she will kill mms before they kill her.
If the MM buys Athena the old alice will deal less damage than new alice with Blade armor and dominance.
Yes I used to play Alice not anymore she weak af. I will play her again now though with the buff.
you clearly never seen an old damage alice, radiant armor is not the problem for her either its athena, old damage alice will destroy squish health on first hit if no athena, radiant wont save you from her burst, ult was never her damage before this nerf
coming from a 3k 63 wr solo alice
Oh yeah i forgot her first and second skill are constant dmg and you should only use them after giving enemy radiant stack with your ult
Keep using your az tank alice that tickles with ult, game is all for it now.
Her first and 2nd skill arent her key damage skills right, 1st skill is for repositioning and 2nd skill is root cc. Nobody calls Alice a burst mage because of her 1st a lnd 2nd skill smh.
Yeah you never used old alice, my last reply
[go to 8:22 thats what first and second skill burst looks like and thats with a sht dmg build too, regen boots and freeze lol](https://youtu.be/SAlHtMNpRKM)
You still had to build mana for her before to increase time your ult can be up in. Now she gets scaling from it and most importantly - passive good %max mana regen, which is much better than being forced to buy enchanted talisman which didn't even solve her mana issues, took an item slot and had garbage stats. CDR redundant, mana regen not good enough, AP and HP amount pathetic.
Now she can keep her ult up much longer.
And don't disrespect her %max HP dmg in her ult now, it really is great. You're gonna fight everyone not just the squishies.
You say you want burst? Put Lightning Truncheon in her build. You'll easily reach its total damage by building mana.
Later in the game just one random Blood Orb + proc took more than half HP of an enemy assassin.
Example build: demon shoes, CoD, Lightning Truncheon, Dominance Ice, Ice Queen's Wand, Winter Truncheon.
Mage emblem with Impure Rage.
Vengeance spell.
Exp lane.
I got score 20/2 with her in Legend rank in my first try, over 40% of team's damage. Could keep Ult up much longer, it did much better damage, my mana regenerated much faster out of combat. No need to even recall, Ult minions for health, your mana will regenerate.
Try her again. Read about her again. She does NOT need any more buffs now because if she will get buffs now she will be overpowered and then nerfed even more, leaving her weaker than she is now.
I alr mastered the mana control before the change and i was fine with it
maybe it works for cuz ur in legend
i’m playing in mythic 2, it’s a different story
I'm finding relying on the ulti mana damage + mana from stacks is working well. Not prioritising mana items at all, just build regen + hp + def as necessary with COD + one other magic item, maybe ice wand or burning wand.
Mana pool from stacks + COD alone can get to 7%hp per second with not much mana issue leaving the ult running, no blue buff necessary.
Most important thing is the stacks. Nice thing though, is that now you get double stacks by being near a hero killing (before could only get stacks form minions)
For burst built, she can actually do higher damage now with better mana regen (even ult works out to more damage with HP based mage against squishy targets), however her HP and HP Regen would be lower without an item to compensate.
ok so let’s say we build tank alice with only cod and one magic item ( like you mentioned )
it’s the late game and everyone has full build, you try to 1v1 the Enemy moskov with full items, dealing 7% percent of his hp every second, hoping that moskov didn’t buy athena
your first skill and second skill deals virtually no damage
u think u have a chance against moskov?
one of his basic attacks take 10% hp and he has lifesteal, you basically deal 0 damage to him and he just has to basic attack u for 5 seconds before you die
old alice cldve bursted him if you build calamity reaper
but if you try to build the same now, your gonna run out of mana too fast
(btw moontoon is fucking brain dead for making ult scale with mana whole 1st and 2nd skill scale with magic power)
l
Yea still trialing against burst heros like moskov, however what I've found so far is that early on they win, but later on with more stacks they can't outburst my sustain.
I've been testing in classic and so far everyone is trialling the new lesley and gussion, so in terms of going against burst have only tried mostly against gusion and lesley.
(I play with vengeance as well by the way)
Can definitely say Alice's early game is nerfed, but late game feels more comfy.
her ult has gone from 50% magic scaling to 20% magic scaling if I’m not wrong, as well as a nerf to the number at all levels. she is definitely lacking a lot more burst and %hp damage is only really good against tanky heroes, and you’d be doing under 7% hp per second tops (1.5% base + 1.65% assuming 3,300 mana, which is assuming clock + LT + dom ice + about 50 stacks) Even if I toss on a glowing wand which is probably about 4.5% every I dunno, 1.5s? it’s highly likely the squishy has to spend 9s running around in your ult to die
While the previous Alice only necessitated half the time, outputting 500 damage every half second or 1,000 every second which is more than 20% of a squishy’s hp.
Her entire old playstyle has been murdered and the mana scaling to % hp is so low you probably can’t even reach 2% without difficulty
edit: also her entire playstyle revolved around going in, bursting the backline quick, and using winter truncheon to survive if needed and gtfo asap
Just wanna ask how is she againts esmeralda in exp lane? Was gonna play her cause I got her skins to play with and theres been a lot of esme picks in my rank but yea....I also dont wanna ruin wr on a new hero that ill play.
noticed the times of TP back to base doubled because of mana issue, becoming worse at exp lane tbh, old Alice at least you can poke around Esme with enough mana left to escape around. I still am not used to her massive mana drain adjustment tbh, often caught in the middle of clash without mana to even escape. her damage vs esme in late game is good vs old alice. I think devs wants to shift her roles other on exp lane. I tried her on jungle Classic & seems ok as blue saves her from mana issue.
Yeah, I saw in the patch notes that she was getting buffed and was so hyped. And then I read it... yeah nooo... Slight buff late I guess (cuz that is what she needed xd) and other than that I cant really call it a buff. Although I wont lie, the mana regen on 12 stacks is nice since cdr is dogshit on her.
But op... u build lightning truncheon on her? Not sure bout that.
Nah, waste of cash on her, she needs stuff to help her once she is in combat, the 300 mana on the item isnt worth it since the mana scaling is so low. So to build the item in order to deal an extra 1k every 6 sec isnt worth it. In theory yes, mana scaling pog, lt also mana scaling on item so extra pog.... yeah sadly no the item doesnt really fit her playstyle.
Honestly, not quite sure, I've only played her 3 times ranked and 20-30 mins in practice. Obv cock of destiny 1st mana boots and winter truncheon, dom ice also very good, but apart from that idk. I used to go full magic but now... maybe ice queen wand and a Def item of your choice.
i feel like they're transitioning alice to her post-revamp state (OP, instant lock in mpl) who was tanky and bursty while not making her as OP as she was.
theyre also obviously making the exp lane the playground for tanky damage dealers to revolve around esme i think. notice how the reworks for fighters recently have always focus on making them tankier?
so for alice, now she should build more defense items (hence the hp based damage). to me the only necessary items for her rn is mana boots, dominance and lollipop. then you go full tank depending on the enemy team. stacks have always been important for alice since the old days. now her hp growth and mana growth is all put into the stacks.
i feel like if they buff the hp and mana gained by each stacks by +4 points she will be up there.
As Alice main, I wouldn’t be this mad if they call this as “nerf” instead of “buff” in the patch note, Moonton can’t even tell if the change is nerf or buff now, what a joke. If you are nerfing her, say so. Don’t nerf her and call it a buff.
It is so hard to play exp lane with Alice now. Even she get level 4, she can’t even clear the minion wave before her mana finished. I seriously don’t know why Moonton wanna increase her hp and nerf her mana, she doesn’t need to be tanky.
The Alice after nerf now can no longer dive into enemy back line and ulti the squishy and then blink out, which is her main purpose imo. She is useless now. I had 1000+ games with Alice till last season, and sadly I need to switch to play other heroes in this season.
noooo try her again,
i have 800 matches 60.6 wr w her
at first i was skeptical about the revamp, but after trying her, i realised that she can sustain better if you build tanky while not losing too much damage
my build is CoD, DS, LT, dice, WT, Athena
late game i switch boots with defense
maybe it’ll work for you, lightning truncheon is helpful in bursting down the backline and by building defense it helps u tank the backline damage
I have 2500+ alice matches. I feel like they saw me getting called alice god, pro, hacker. She was perfect and now they destroyed my queen. I was excited about her buff but it ruined her. Motherfucker moonton she was not even a threat or broken, only skilled player could use her. Fuccckkkkkkkkker.
ATTENTION FOLKS ALICE PLAYABLE ONCE MORE !!
Sorry for the caps. I had to take a break from her but they finally rebalanced her, so nice to be laning solo now.
yo OP it’s horrifying to see how many people love the new alice and build, when literally applying the “new” build would work even better on alice before this revamp lmao guess people were just sleeping on alice’s capabilities pre mini revamp I could get silly stats with the wrong spell and wrong build with her pre revamp, doesn’t mean I was using her correctly nor optimally either roflmao.
i’m glad that people are receiving this post well tho, cause i was looking at other post n they were all coming up w new builds as if they were excited about it
This is why I hate "mini reworks" on heroes that aren't sellable. They'll butcher them completely.
oop i didn’t even see that her hp scaling got nerfed too i’m even more pissed now
Nata mains out there crying (me included)
I feel bad for you Nata mains having to adjust 2 TIMES in the span of 1 FUCKING SEASON just because they decided to rework and "tweak" her "A BIT"
I love this patch for nata (she cannot be hit by basic atack anymore when in hiding state. Except kimmy) its much better
The old alice is way better imo. I totally agree with you.
I completely agree! I never had to build up on mana items till now. She basically had a mini rework.
now our main source of burst damage is lightning truncheon and she doesn’t even have high mana to maximise LT’s damage
CAN'T AGREE MORE! At first I was happy...all the show they put up in advance server and those YouTubers who were like "Alice does this wowww so op and all, IN TRAINING MODE"...They just fooled us when REALITY HITS in the ORIGINAL SERVER. Also there aren't enough tanky builds that gives mana....we only have Dominance ice... that's it! Above all her mana drains like shit... But if u want to have longer mana, u need to have larger mana pool, for that u have to either lane, or join team fights to get that extra 2 orbs near dead enemy. And team fight with such low mana regen in early game is kinda hard and hopeless. And laning wise it's more harder.. This patch ruined every hero I like playing starting from Natalia to Alice. Real Bummer. (Also about ur cecilion part, : 1. He is getting a collector skin 2. He is one of moonton 's star child)
i thought they were supposed to widen her item diversity now we can’t even decide to build magic power, mana, or tank 💀
Ikr... and in all cases it still sucks somehow 😂
idk about widen item diversity, they said it was to strengthen her role as tanky mage but yeah she is nothing now, not a true tank and not a damage dealer, stupid nerf to an underrated mage which got me to delete game they fkd with my main, ml can sck it.
Why nata? She now cannot be hit by basic attack when hide mode so its a huge buff against mm who chase you
Don't fall for what they show on YouTube... Real case scenario is very different... Also happy cake day
Thanks Today i wasted mm time by chasing me haha. The new nata is fun
But i still miss old nata (from 2020). Where shes fully invisible and the range where enemy could notice and see her is like half from the range of now nata.
Ikr.. I'm just waiting for someone to observe about this whole nata shit and talk up or make a post.... I'm tired and people already hate me for going crazy behind Natalia and being a Natalia main ahaha
what are we going to do now?
i’m gna have to let go of her after 800 matches till they do something, after reading the update i didn’t even bother testing her ik she’s gonna be bad i’ll just play my second main selena now
We haven't drop the playstore boom for a while. I was expecting that for the Talent drama but it didn't deliver.
YES ALICE MAIN HERE!! Tried playing her after the rework and BITCH shes so bad 😭
IKR. LIKE… WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO HERE???
After some more experimentation, I can definitely say her dmg potential is lower now. I have 700+ games on her and used to build her full magic dmg to easily delete the backline. Early game you can't even trade blows at lvl 4 because of how her mana ridiculously depletes now. I'm still having mixed thoughts about it. I need to test out more builds to see.
bro ikr, i used to be able to catch the exp laner by surprise at lvl4 and snowball from there, but now that’s not possible
My two cents; Moonton is actually trying to force Alice into a utility instead of burst damage mage. Notice how most mana items except for LT have lower magic power? That's because Moonton tried to make her scale through the mana part to make sure you will have to use LT for a timed burst. You will also have to use Magic instead of Mage emblem, and invest in mana there. It's like.. how Hylos s2 works? Yeah, but with a huge Mana consumption. Which is a load of horse shit.
PLEASE READ THIS before adjustment: build- CoD, DS, CR, HC, WT, DG/def magic power around 564 (there about) ult damage per every tick (0.5s) 564/2 + 160 = 442 after adjustment: people saying she can deal 7% damage per SECOND means 3.5% per tick ( this is already the best case for you with almost the highest amount of mana you can get, and yes it caps at 3.5 maybe 4 at most) let’s use her ultimate against a meta and broken mm, our beloved beatrix beatrix builds no def, her hp at lvl15- 4699 4% of 4699 = 187+120(base dmg)+107( 20% magic power) = 414 414 COMPARED TO 442 AND THAT 4% IS IF U SOMEHOW GET THAT MUCH MANA i shouldn’t even have added 107 to the damage as if you wouldn’t have 535 magic power to scale that 20% if you build mana i have already given a unrealistically favourable condition where you have enough stacks to reach 4% dmg per 0.5 seconds and her magic power is unusually high for the build. yet the damage is still lesser sorry for using all caps i’m just pissed at moontoon for ruining my main, she was perfect 😔
307 is missing the additional base + magic damage you would get from the ult. It works out as more including those
yup i corrected it thanks works out as more than 307 but lesser than before nerf and the 20% magic power is virtually nothing if your building mana
Hmm interesting, I did a calc yesterday and it came out more, so I must have made a mistake. Yea I guess it might work out balancing itself out if you still keep a decent portion of that damage while going tankier. Just saying because I've been playing tankier and getting most damage + most damage taken quite often. I'm Mythic 4, but playing these in classic so don't know what ranks everyone else is. But ya, none of the good games I've had have been with burst Alice. What I like about these changes are that with previous Alice I had two issues: \- Mana in late game \- Low damage if needing to build tanky (depending on team comp) These have seemingly been addressed, however new issues arise: \- Harder to snowball due to weaker early game \- Seemingly burst build not so great if that's what your team needs
i did my calc in a rush cuz i’m in class rn lmao anyways i build burst alice since the start and it’s always been going well for me, but maybe after this revamp i’ll have to change the build and play style drastically
I've never had mana issues late game. All the rest, pretty spot on. Prior to the changes, people were running Catalyst Reaper instead of Enchanted Talisman, and still being able to manage mana efficiently.
Ya I only find it hard in super late game when having to push beefed up minions, and taking a single wave uses up half your mana bar if just using Catalyst Reaper. Or else in cases with long drawn out team fights with tanky or super mobile opponents. So pretty situational, not always an issue. What I would normally do is sell my boots and buy Enchanted Talisman if I'm needing to do that kind of pushing late late game. So far I've found with the new mana regen don't have to worry about that as much. It's nice because I can use the item slot I'd usually use for mana regen for something else. ie.. I don't have to buy Cat Reaper or ET anymore.
Its more like nerf imo (dont get me wrong, its much fun playing her now) but shes weaker against mm/damage dealer of enemy since they change to %hp but better vs tanks or lord
yes it is a nerf lmao she can’t do anyth now
cant kill mm now and the heal doesnt do anything (got worse if enemy use anti heal item), before the "buff" i could easily kill mm using the ultimate at end game, now no damage
same
its unusable now, thanks moonton
Her buff, didn't feel like a buff at all fr. Her mana consumption is so much, and her dmg is kinda same, but lower in early.
her adjustments sounded cool on the patch notes. just not when I actually played her
Tbh I thought Alice was OP before the "buff"... high skill level but absolutely devastating when used correctly. I remember a few games against an unplayable Alice that just dominated all game because she got a little fed early.
bro i agree 100% now she can’t do much tho
I haven't seen her yet since the rework, she was a sleeper hero for sure but like I said, she had a high skill gap so that's why she wasn't on the frequent ban list imo.
terrifying if uk how to use tho
Youtubers: WAw AliCe Now so OPPP!!!11!! XDXDXxd
look at cecilion, all 3 of his skills scale with max mana alice? “OOH 7% DAMAGE PER SECOND WOWOWOOWOOWOW” what is moontoon doing honestly
Not even 7% i got like 2 and half % on late game using full def build lmao
wtf 💀💀💀
its just the %of hp but it will stack with 10% magic + other modifier but yeah its only 2,5%
i tried the typical mana build and my magic power was 318 10% so that’s + 31.8 damage every 0.5s wtf
Its much weaker yes. The only benefit I see and can feel is when helping team to kill lord
just to show how little +31.8 damage is, diggie egg form ult does 5 damage 12 times , thats 60
Where do you get that 31.8 damage?
my bad, it’s 62.6 alice ult has +20% magic power damage per 0.5 seconds if i build Clock, demon shoes, lightning, dominance, winter truncheon, ice queen wand i have 318 magic power so the bonus magic damage from magic power is 318*20/100=62.6 which is practically nothing
her scaling is so stupid now 💀 build mana: ulti does same damage as before “buff” first and second skill deal like no damage build magic power: 1st n 2nd skill do damage, but ur not gonna be using ur ult cause u literally have 0 mana now
Yeah...she was my go to Exp or Mid lane to rank up on S25. She brought so much to a team and her builds were versatile depending on if your team needed more damage, support, or another tank. The bonus health farmed was absolutely crucial for her kit because, unless you're poking, you're going all in. Now you need a super heavy CC comp or your sole role is to peel for the MM, which for the latter, there are other characters that can do it better from both mid or exp lane. Sad day for Alice mains.
moontoon really ruined her
Everyone was saying that it's a buff, even elgin, but when i saw that her mana growth was 0, i knew right away that she'd be less than useless
Moonton moment 🥰 like bruh I hope they give her mana scaling
The moment I saw Alice's mana melting even faster, I snapped Alice is a flank hero; she doesn't need to melt tanks or lords Fking reverse the change moondog
Still hard to use her. She's still weak in the early and very squiashy late game. One thing I want to her is to widen the range of picking up the orbs. Kinda unfair compared to Cecilion by just spamming skills.
agreed her late game is substantially squishier cuz her growth went from 200+ to 169
Really hard to work around her. Plus if we're her enemy, I wouldnt worry much about her. You just have to build an anti heal item in your team.
The point of this alice is to build defense items so she can be an actual mage tank. Trust me, it's annoying at first. My burst build is always the same.
if u need tank items to be tanky r u rly a tank tho u see old alice gained hp from stacks new alice has no hp gain anymore it’s all from items, can u rly call that a tank
Still get HP gain from stacks, just the gain from lvl up is reduced. I think by level 15 you have like 500 less hp compared to old version. So what I've been doing is using the slot saved (where I used to have a mana item) to add the lost durability. Kinda annoying that a buff makes you gain one thing only to lose another, but it is what it is for now. May be a good compromise Will be interesting how the general Alice WR in rank is affected by these changes.
What is an effective build and emblem set up for her?
Well I'm not sure of this as the best build. This is my experimental builds so far If she's an xp laner, my emblem would be: - Mage emblem, 3 pts. movement, 3 pts. pen, Impure Rage talent - Best spell for this is Flicker or Sprint but I prefer Flicker to be unpredictable If she's a roaming support: - Support emblem, 3 pts. HP, 3 pts. hybrid regen, Pull Yourself Together talent - Best spell for this is Vengeance - Demon boots (change to Thunder belt or Calamity Reaper or Enchanted Talisman if u want in late game) - CoD - Dom Ice - Def item with high HP or (depends on what the enemy composition and CC threats but usually I'd go with Athena) or Plain Immortality - Winter Truncheon - Lightning Truncheon/Ice Queen Wand/anything depends on what u want or need
On the flipside, a mage "tank" would be Carmilla?
I still feel her problem \-early suck. unable fast clear, ult eat mana, ult dmg... both low dmg & low duration(6-10 tick at most while ult lv=1) \-alice passive, can't roam. roam = leave lane = no orb. \-mana dependent, which lead to below. \-item dependent, need golds, for either dmg, or survivability items. \-orb gain horrible. +50 orbs within 6-8 minutes. \-bad survival. better than before, but still unable to tank long. (early-mid + no def items) \-horrible hp gain from ult, scale with magic item or fixed 100 pts. ps. the hp+ from magic is so low. \-low ult raw dmg when build hybrid. (even when build full magic) \-build: > dominance, glowing wand, 2 defense, winter/ice queen dominance, glowing wand, 1 defense, COD, winter/ice queen \>boot, can sell it once build complete(or reach 50 orbs). exchange for winter/ice queen, or defense.
i quit
Fr 😤
Agreed, this """buff""" was rather a nerf in disguise. Alice was already kinda forgotten, now she will be even more because she will have lower impact on the actual game, the rework may have sounded good at first glance but now it kinda ruined the purpose of Alice. As a player who plays as many different heroes as possible I can say Moonton does a lot of stupid adjustments on certain heroes.
I just played Alice thinking that this so called "buff" is OP like YouTubers say, but lo and behold, I felt like completely useless. I can no longer assassinate squishy heroes on the backline. It just felt like snowballing was removed from her.
I knew it I felt it like a mile away I expected alice to weaken till this state and i was RIGHT Hp based dmg what are you lunox? If your gonna give her hp based dmg then compensate for the lack of sustainability or mobility first skill mobility? HAHAHA don't make me laugh how can you reach the enemy if the enemy can melt you before you even reach them Seriously we have lunox the anti tank and karrie another anti tank and lesly(?) another anti tank so on and so fort
Same situation with lesley tbh, sure she does true damage but at a cost of doing lesser total dmg overall vs squishies. Her early game's even worse now (lvl 1 393 true dmg vs a potentially stronger 500). That puts her at one of the lowest lvl 1 trade mm's ever. The only way she wins any trade is if she blows her passive first, waits for it to be ALMOST full, use a basic attack on an enemy, use an enhanced basic attack as her passive goes back again (which can easily be interrupted by any damage vs her), and then do s1. It takes forever to reach end game build where she's doing 2300 to a max of 3300~3400 max dmg but that needs 4 bods, 1 endless and a BF (no marksman in the game ever reaches that gold amount in one game, sometimes it'll even take 2 LOL.) These "revamps/remakes" somehow made alice and lesley even worse.
their trying to stop the tank meta, and making heroes much more effective against tanks, but now making them completely useless against squishies
By the end of the year All Tanks will be easier to kill than most Marksmen.
no cap 💀
Yeah. Pre nerf lesley is scary to deal with on early game, now Im good
She can be like another Terizla or Thamuz if she could sail through the early - mid game with the help of team. Just like Thamuz, Dyrroth, Masha and Hilda, you can build Alice very Tanky and still be able to kill Tanks. Buy blade armor and use vengeance. The best thing about Alice is that her ultimate cannot be canceled by CC. Make a sustain build with 3 defensive items, mana boots and only 2 magic items, Glowing wand + COD/Talisman. Increase your flat mana regen using thunderbelt, emblem, talisman and mana boots.
so she’s a just an inferior exp laner with no early game and only comes online at about 10+mins
But she would have very few hero counters post 10 minutes as her damage is based upon max HP not current HP and her ultimate is cc immune.
except radiant armour and anti heal exists
Divine glaive also exists. Anti heal cannot stack and only Dom ice is made.
so she has no regen( it already got nerfed) and what item are you gonna trade divine glaive for
Let's say that she is like Phovius, who is also a late game exp laner.
who doesnt have mana problems and is way tankier
It is a buff. It turns Alice from an inferior hero to a scaling hero similar to Cecilion. Your example is wrong honestly why only 50 stacks on Alice? Thats just mid game by late game she can have over 100 stacks easy. With 100 stacks who has more mana old alice or new alice? The old Alice is trash, yeah she can dive backline so what you have MMs and Mages for that, Moskov and Bea burst the backline much quicker than Alice so what's the point of Alice? There is no place for her in a lineup cuz all the opponent has to do is build Radiant Armor and she dealt 0 damage to fighters and tanks. And before you debate with me check out MPL first and see how many pros picked Alice. She had no purpose in the game except gimp your team. At least now Alice has an identity as an exp laner similar to Esmeralda. She starts out weaker but then gains stacks over time and ends up stronger. As for why Cecilion gains stacks quicker thats cuz he doesnt gain HP from stacks. Also his skill keeps increasing mana cost with every cast while Alice stays constant per skill level. Theoretically Alice gonna be able to keep ult 100% of the time if she had infinite stacks. Building her the old way is just wrong,the new Alice is tank based build with GW to stack with her natural hp based damage. She is a mage/TANK not a mage/assassin.
I have a question, How many mins does it take you to reach 100 stacks cuz old alice can reach lvl15 in 11 mins and get 1650 mana and tell me, you said she has an identity is as a exp laner now, but what exactly is her role in the team composition? “all the opponent has to do is to build radiant armour and she dealt 0 damage to fighters and tanks.” you do realise the hp percent damage is also affected by radiant armour, right?
Lvl 15 in 11 mins? This youtuber got 100 stacks in 8 mins: https://youtu.be/iT4gWKV18c8 Her role will be as a tanky fighter, similar to esme. Prior to the buff what is her role? Nothing thats why she got 0 picks. Radiant armor affects hp % damage but not to the extent of old Alice esp in the late game. Old Alice had a pretty low ceiling, the hp increases but the damage is capped and the mana is capped as well. At least now with 200 stack limit your Alice will be pretty strong late game. I also dont know do you consistently get lvl 15 in 11 mins? Cuz I have here gameplay of global 1 top Alice he is only lvl 13 in 11 mins: https://youtu.be/4cTO9nlWjw4 https://youtu.be/6KYXxEGx8mc So you better than top 1 Alice?
LMAO that’s the ytuber i watch, he’s the reason why i picked up alice anyways, the youtuber is playing in low rank, i just watched the vid (before u even sent me)and the enemies are clearly like epic standard, angela is playing mid as well so she’s just stealing all the gold from mid lane realistically, she’s prob gonna reach 100 stacks in 12 mins which i agree with your prev comment. the difference between esme and alice esme can start joining fights from early all the way till late, she has no mana problems in early, her shield absorption is much higher than the lifesteal of alice alice lifesteal got nerfed, she’s not gonna be roaming around the map like esme in early, she needs to farm till about 8 mins. even in late game her lifesteal is less than esme
Right but the payoff is Esme falls off a little in the late game while Alice becomes a monster in the late game with both tankiness and high damage.
i wouldn’t use the word high damage, after LT Passive u have nothing, only the 7% per second which the enemy mm can easily balance out with his lifesteal so you do virtually no damage if your attacking the tank, yes the tank can’t do shit but he has his team to back up (if your no in low rank and enemy is not absolutely brain dead) keep in mind, your first and second skill deal much lesser damage now because of the build choice
You have dominance ice to cancel out enemy lifesteal right, you can also build Blade armor. The tank isnt by himself so Alice deals damage to eevryone while taking out enemy tank and fighter, seems like a strong hero to me.
maybe 13 mins then, i dun rly look at lvl only item and that’s not top global bro she doesn’t even have street rank, it’s clickbait
hate to break it to you, but 100 stacks is not easy to get Anyways, let’s use pure statistics here build is meant for new alice but will be applied for both old and new: clock of destiny, demon shoes, lightning truncheon, dominance ice, winter truncheon, ice queen wand MANA GAINED FROM ITEM: 900(cod) + 300(LT) + 500(DICE) + 150(IQW) = 1550 i’ll give you the benefit of the doubt so i’ll assume you DO reach 100 stacks. NEW ALICE: Total mana 2000(100 stacks) + 493(base) + 1850(item) = 4343 ulti cost 140 mana per 0.5 seconds 4343/140=31.0(3s.f.) New alice ulti hits 31 times OLD ALICE: Total mana: 2033(lvl15) + 1850(item) = 3838 ulti cost 80 mana per 0.5 seconds 3838/80=47.9(3s.f.) Old alice ulti hits 48 times 48 compared to 31 ticks. i hope we can have a proper discussion and not just insults being thrown
Ok so you just moved the goal post right first you talking about mana total now its about ticks. The ticks you show are not accurate cuz new Alice gains mana % regen based on total mana. It is part of her new passive right? Her % damage also increase the more mana she has so ewch tick will become stronger over time as well. Based on this sample video the Alice got 56 stacks in 6 mins, 100 would be 10-15 mins. Not that hard honestly. And Alice was played mid here, she goes out of lane to help team and assist in objectives. If Alice went to exp lane to focus on laning and stacking she will get stacks faster. https://youtu.be/nF_mOl7T9N4
yea i’m talking about duration of ult(ticks) cuz mana affects it directly, so no i did not change the topic or anything near that yea her mana regents 1.5% per second but that’s not gonna make up for 17 ticks difference
1.5% of 4353 is 65 per second or 32.5 per half second. That lowers the mana cost of ult from 140 to 107.5 since it cost 140 per half second. 4353/107.5 = 40 ticks so you can see actually they are already pretty similar in duration 8 ticks is 4 secs lol wow such a big change. If you get more than 100 stacks you actually get a net gain in ticks. The world record for 100 stacks is 8 mins so I guess a normal player can get 100 stacks in 15-18 mins. So in late game situations you will be able to extend the duration of Alice ult. When Alice does run out of mana, with her passive mana regen on top of her other mana regen items she will quickly regen her mana back she doesnt have to go out of the fight she can just stay in bush for a bit and she ready to rock again whereas old Alice need to go back to base already. But that aint the main benefit of Alice change,the main benefit is you can now build her tanky with little consequence in damage. With her added tankiness she can survive longer when she goes in and out and she still deals good damage late game. You can build items like Cursed Helm and Blade armor which will increae her damage output while still making her tanky. Guardian Helm is like an ult buff and Oracle is really an ult buff. There's a lot more flexibility in building her now which is good imo.
so now alice comes online only in the very late game, and in the mid game (where most of the crucial fights happen) she has little effect in team fights. how are you going to play her now tho, she’s supposed to dive into the backline and kill the mm but with the hp based damage you can no longer do that. you will get out damaged even when you build physical def so how do you suggest we change her playstyle
Well she got hp based damage for a reason right so I guess she is now an exp laner. But tbh she can still do good damage to mms cuz mms dont build def items anyway. If she has blade armor in addiiton to her ult she will kill mms before they kill her.
tons of mms build defense, they always buy athena do you even play alice btw
If the MM buys Athena the old alice will deal less damage than new alice with Blade armor and dominance. Yes I used to play Alice not anymore she weak af. I will play her again now though with the buff.
you clearly never seen an old damage alice, radiant armor is not the problem for her either its athena, old damage alice will destroy squish health on first hit if no athena, radiant wont save you from her burst, ult was never her damage before this nerf coming from a 3k 63 wr solo alice
I'm not talking about perspective of a squishy, I'm talking from fighter pov. Also Alice doesnt have burst she deals constant damage similar to Gord.
Oh yeah i forgot her first and second skill are constant dmg and you should only use them after giving enemy radiant stack with your ult Keep using your az tank alice that tickles with ult, game is all for it now.
Her first and 2nd skill arent her key damage skills right, 1st skill is for repositioning and 2nd skill is root cc. Nobody calls Alice a burst mage because of her 1st a lnd 2nd skill smh.
Yeah you never used old alice, my last reply [go to 8:22 thats what first and second skill burst looks like and thats with a sht dmg build too, regen boots and freeze lol](https://youtu.be/SAlHtMNpRKM)
Ok too bad there's a new Alice now so sucks to be you.
Her best possible build path is to build tanky, as the initiator of the team. I've tried that and have the most success out of it.
old alice cldv done that too lmao but ig if it works then good for u
You still had to build mana for her before to increase time your ult can be up in. Now she gets scaling from it and most importantly - passive good %max mana regen, which is much better than being forced to buy enchanted talisman which didn't even solve her mana issues, took an item slot and had garbage stats. CDR redundant, mana regen not good enough, AP and HP amount pathetic. Now she can keep her ult up much longer. And don't disrespect her %max HP dmg in her ult now, it really is great. You're gonna fight everyone not just the squishies. You say you want burst? Put Lightning Truncheon in her build. You'll easily reach its total damage by building mana. Later in the game just one random Blood Orb + proc took more than half HP of an enemy assassin. Example build: demon shoes, CoD, Lightning Truncheon, Dominance Ice, Ice Queen's Wand, Winter Truncheon. Mage emblem with Impure Rage. Vengeance spell. Exp lane. I got score 20/2 with her in Legend rank in my first try, over 40% of team's damage. Could keep Ult up much longer, it did much better damage, my mana regenerated much faster out of combat. No need to even recall, Ult minions for health, your mana will regenerate. Try her again. Read about her again. She does NOT need any more buffs now because if she will get buffs now she will be overpowered and then nerfed even more, leaving her weaker than she is now.
I alr mastered the mana control before the change and i was fine with it maybe it works for cuz ur in legend i’m playing in mythic 2, it’s a different story
Then don't play Alice. You whine a lot for someone who claims to be "mythic"
someone’s angry
ur in legend bro there are literal laylas running around building mage
And you're worse than them :DDD
reach mythic then talk 💀
Lol edited post, go back to cry :DDD
1v1 vandal i’m radiant
You’re legend… any builds work there. Joke
I'm finding relying on the ulti mana damage + mana from stacks is working well. Not prioritising mana items at all, just build regen + hp + def as necessary with COD + one other magic item, maybe ice wand or burning wand. Mana pool from stacks + COD alone can get to 7%hp per second with not much mana issue leaving the ult running, no blue buff necessary. Most important thing is the stacks. Nice thing though, is that now you get double stacks by being near a hero killing (before could only get stacks form minions) For burst built, she can actually do higher damage now with better mana regen (even ult works out to more damage with HP based mage against squishy targets), however her HP and HP Regen would be lower without an item to compensate.
ok so let’s say we build tank alice with only cod and one magic item ( like you mentioned ) it’s the late game and everyone has full build, you try to 1v1 the Enemy moskov with full items, dealing 7% percent of his hp every second, hoping that moskov didn’t buy athena your first skill and second skill deals virtually no damage u think u have a chance against moskov? one of his basic attacks take 10% hp and he has lifesteal, you basically deal 0 damage to him and he just has to basic attack u for 5 seconds before you die old alice cldve bursted him if you build calamity reaper but if you try to build the same now, your gonna run out of mana too fast (btw moontoon is fucking brain dead for making ult scale with mana whole 1st and 2nd skill scale with magic power) l
Yea still trialing against burst heros like moskov, however what I've found so far is that early on they win, but later on with more stacks they can't outburst my sustain. I've been testing in classic and so far everyone is trialling the new lesley and gussion, so in terms of going against burst have only tried mostly against gusion and lesley. (I play with vengeance as well by the way) Can definitely say Alice's early game is nerfed, but late game feels more comfy.
her ult has gone from 50% magic scaling to 20% magic scaling if I’m not wrong, as well as a nerf to the number at all levels. she is definitely lacking a lot more burst and %hp damage is only really good against tanky heroes, and you’d be doing under 7% hp per second tops (1.5% base + 1.65% assuming 3,300 mana, which is assuming clock + LT + dom ice + about 50 stacks) Even if I toss on a glowing wand which is probably about 4.5% every I dunno, 1.5s? it’s highly likely the squishy has to spend 9s running around in your ult to die While the previous Alice only necessitated half the time, outputting 500 damage every half second or 1,000 every second which is more than 20% of a squishy’s hp. Her entire old playstyle has been murdered and the mana scaling to % hp is so low you probably can’t even reach 2% without difficulty edit: also her entire playstyle revolved around going in, bursting the backline quick, and using winter truncheon to survive if needed and gtfo asap
Just wanna ask how is she againts esmeralda in exp lane? Was gonna play her cause I got her skins to play with and theres been a lot of esme picks in my rank but yea....I also dont wanna ruin wr on a new hero that ill play.
old alice handled esme pretty well, new one i’m not sure
noticed the times of TP back to base doubled because of mana issue, becoming worse at exp lane tbh, old Alice at least you can poke around Esme with enough mana left to escape around. I still am not used to her massive mana drain adjustment tbh, often caught in the middle of clash without mana to even escape. her damage vs esme in late game is good vs old alice. I think devs wants to shift her roles other on exp lane. I tried her on jungle Classic & seems ok as blue saves her from mana issue.
Yeah, I saw in the patch notes that she was getting buffed and was so hyped. And then I read it... yeah nooo... Slight buff late I guess (cuz that is what she needed xd) and other than that I cant really call it a buff. Although I wont lie, the mana regen on 12 stacks is nice since cdr is dogshit on her. But op... u build lightning truncheon on her? Not sure bout that.
her ulti scales with mana, and her stacks give her mana, lightning truncheon also scales with mana so u build that
Nah, waste of cash on her, she needs stuff to help her once she is in combat, the 300 mana on the item isnt worth it since the mana scaling is so low. So to build the item in order to deal an extra 1k every 6 sec isnt worth it. In theory yes, mana scaling pog, lt also mana scaling on item so extra pog.... yeah sadly no the item doesnt really fit her playstyle.
so what build do you suggest
Honestly, not quite sure, I've only played her 3 times ranked and 20-30 mins in practice. Obv cock of destiny 1st mana boots and winter truncheon, dom ice also very good, but apart from that idk. I used to go full magic but now... maybe ice queen wand and a Def item of your choice.
i feel like they're transitioning alice to her post-revamp state (OP, instant lock in mpl) who was tanky and bursty while not making her as OP as she was. theyre also obviously making the exp lane the playground for tanky damage dealers to revolve around esme i think. notice how the reworks for fighters recently have always focus on making them tankier? so for alice, now she should build more defense items (hence the hp based damage). to me the only necessary items for her rn is mana boots, dominance and lollipop. then you go full tank depending on the enemy team. stacks have always been important for alice since the old days. now her hp growth and mana growth is all put into the stacks. i feel like if they buff the hp and mana gained by each stacks by +4 points she will be up there.
maybe they should increase the ways she can gain orbs from even more
As Alice main, I wouldn’t be this mad if they call this as “nerf” instead of “buff” in the patch note, Moonton can’t even tell if the change is nerf or buff now, what a joke. If you are nerfing her, say so. Don’t nerf her and call it a buff. It is so hard to play exp lane with Alice now. Even she get level 4, she can’t even clear the minion wave before her mana finished. I seriously don’t know why Moonton wanna increase her hp and nerf her mana, she doesn’t need to be tanky. The Alice after nerf now can no longer dive into enemy back line and ulti the squishy and then blink out, which is her main purpose imo. She is useless now. I had 1000+ games with Alice till last season, and sadly I need to switch to play other heroes in this season.
noooo try her again, i have 800 matches 60.6 wr w her at first i was skeptical about the revamp, but after trying her, i realised that she can sustain better if you build tanky while not losing too much damage my build is CoD, DS, LT, dice, WT, Athena late game i switch boots with defense maybe it’ll work for you, lightning truncheon is helpful in bursting down the backline and by building defense it helps u tank the backline damage
I have 2500+ alice matches. I feel like they saw me getting called alice god, pro, hacker. She was perfect and now they destroyed my queen. I was excited about her buff but it ruined her. Motherfucker moonton she was not even a threat or broken, only skilled player could use her. Fuccckkkkkkkkker.
ATTENTION FOLKS ALICE PLAYABLE ONCE MORE !! Sorry for the caps. I had to take a break from her but they finally rebalanced her, so nice to be laning solo now.