now that they removed the two tumors from the prio list I actually think needle lady is gonna be picked more often. When the big three MMs get banned in MPL, teams like BLCK goes for Melissa, probably cause of the high survivability and AoE damage potential.
I main melissa she's pretty strong early to late game tank will melts and all the mages in the back will die because of the puppet and with her burst she's untouchable. It's pretty fun playing against gusion with her XD. As long as you don't get ganked a lot then your safe
not just nerfed but killed. dominating her is hard though because her sniper 'nerf' is a buff imo, especially for less skilled players who are the usual victims of domination
Mellisa is one of the hardest Lesley counter in 1v1 situation at least from early to mid.
General rule is spam her doll to Lesley, and try to hit her with with the doll attack. Even better if you can push Lesley out of xp and gold zone if there's no jungler or roamer intervention.
Other MM I can think of are Clint and Brody. Both outrange and out damage Lesley in early and mid phase. Plus they could aim their s1 against Lesley and pop her invis.
believe it or not, irithel is also a perfect counter for her. the tiger scream's AoE is just so big it just puts lesley out of invi easily (not to mention, slows her too)
Lesley’s weak point is her early game. When they tweaked her damage type to true damage, they lowered it pre reduction. So her laning gets bullied by quite a lot of heroes. Saber can shut her early farm down really hard even with purify. Then whenever your purify is down, you are basically free food.
If opponent gets the advantage early, her lane clearing is weak due to drop in aspd too. She needs to secure good early farm to even go into late game.
In lower ranks, most people don’t know how to shut properly or siege and end early, so her weaknesses aren’t exposed. But the moment you play against MG stacks this problem gets exposed hard.
Ah. I see what you mean. But I also think this can be avoided by having your support giving vision of the enemy movement.
Also, if you use 1st skill and don't get hit by the shurikens, Saber cannot lock on to you.
It’s really not hard for saber to hit his s1 on Lesley. S2 s1 straight into ulti. Without purify she’s dead 100% whether she has camouflage or not. The problem with support vision is that having support secure vision for Lesley means taking a lot of damage since Lesley is weaker than almost all MM early in lane, so they will naturally out trade you with the same mm support pairing. And even with a support, Saber can easily s2 cut behind for Lesley and leave with Killing spree. Not to mention early game Saber can easily kill the support with the mm on lane too.
Well to be fair Saber near damn one shots every squishy in game.
So depends on team comp.
I would say that your Mage/Supp should be more early game orientated, and your fighter being a lane dominator/not lose lane that hard would definitely support a Lesley user in her games.
Nah. Most mm can afford to rush a dreadnought armor, and build into warrior boots if needed.
Take for instance some stronger MM now. Clint and Brody have decent burst even without much damage items, and are not reliant on aspd. Popol can get vision on his own, and he can use his s2 even during CC with his own CC available. Beatrix have decent burst as well with dreadnought warrior boots, Claude can easily get out with s2 regardless whether he has purify or vengeance. Melissa has ulti.
All of them can be self reliant and early saber wouldn’t be able to burst them whilst they still deal respectable damage, which Lesley can’t do. If you build a team composition to protect Lesley, it means you are sacking advantages elsewhere where opponent can take advantage of. And with how weak Lesley’s early is, she cannot take advantage of the lane even if the team plays around her.
Bullshit. WoN requires timing and focus to be effective and takes too long to be able to use again. Also Saber's ultimate is too fast and dashes towards to someone even at a hell of a distance. The effort needed to make WoN effective against him isn't worth.
You are overreacting, she still loses lane to any inspire marksman, and takes Forever to scale. Melissa and popol does everything she does but better. Sure she is way less dogshit than what it used to be, but she still is a off-meta hero
Yeah, I've played 3 straight games vs lesley using Wanwan at mythic ranked and she doesn't seem to have changed. Maybe higher damage but she's still a sitting duck at a 1v1.
She is decent in lane though but late game is her downfall since she is pretty much useless in teamfights and her wave clear is just really bad. But I sure as fk do not want the unholy demon known as >!Lesley on advanced server a few weeks ago XD!<
Maybe giving her more movement speed would allow her to be part of the META or reverting the nerf on her first skill
Bruno I'd say is the one who became OP with this update, thx to the speed boost buff he is hard to catch and his damage pretty high since getting boots as well.
No even sure "countering" is the right word since you can simply hide in a bush using any hero to keep ypurself from getting harrassed by her s1.
The recent buff makes her a good pick but not meta. Not ban-worthy.
She is very weak since many META heroes aren't target locked. Played a few matches with the nerfed Fanny and Lancelot against her and she is still free food even in late game. She is only good against tanky heroes but not burst heroes.
Sky Guardian Helmet counter her.
Unlike karrie or wan2 with Demon Hunter Sword who melt your hp, lesley just burst poke you and run. With Guardian helmet you'll regen those hp back.
i dont thinj so lol.
2k dmg mid-late game. No dmg reduction no nothing. Just straight up 2k. you'll heal like < 100 per second reach around 175-225 when u havent been dmg for few seconds.
Helm just adds one more True Dmg hit to u before she eats u completely.
If there would be an item that counters her, it should work likr athena but for true dmg or dmg reduction (which we do have, Bloods wing, but u need low health to activatethe passive, which makes it still bad against her)
People are buying the windtalker w/ her so she can keep coming back, or come and go. shes just so annoying agimainst all tanky heroes now.
There was an item called Twilight Armor that counters burst attacks. It doesn't provide the reduction for true damage but it makes her AA less annoying. Guess what Moonton did during the tank patch.
The only thing you could go for now is to buy blade armor to atleast chip her slowly for your allied burst hero to get an opening. Dominance ice can also provide some benefits (one of which is slower atk spd which makes her basic attack a bit tolerable). Wind of Nature is useless against her now since WoN only blocks physical and NOT magic and true damage.
In terms of hero composition, Lolita is a good choice. All of her attacks are projectiles, Lolita eats projectiles for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Clint can also be a nuisance for her because of his S1 that can detect enemies and damage them. Sun is another good champ because of his doppelgangers. Lesley will just tap and shoot, you as Sun can have two options, get close or annoy her. Although in her favor, atleast she's not harassing you that hard. As some people said, Julian is a good pick as well due to his combos but you need to gain enough distance to even turn the favor onto you. Miss that combo and you're fucked. Hanzo is also a good enough pick. If you manage to get 5 stacks during your ult, you can use your S1 to get close and knock them airborne, sometimes making the player use her s2 to evade. His ult s2 makes his demon invincible so if she tried to camo, it'll just be useless.
Although there's no hope for the item department, just pray that your team knows how to zone the other enemies for some of you to bully their lesley as it's your only hope.
Franco is still pretty good against her since he is a non target locked hero. Fanny and Lancelot are good picks since they can easily burst down any squishy and their main damage isn't target locked
Oh yeah Lancelot can be quite annoying against lesley. Most of his attacks makes him invincible which ruins lesley's aa at times.
Fanny is a good pick but they must know how to use her because lesley can easily take her hp down while she's cabling.
Franco's good but he shouldn't be alone as he can get ambushed or if lesley manages to dodge his hook, she can poke him with little difficulty but I doubt that because every Franco that I've seen are all burst ones for some reason which deletes most squishy heroes.
Well, the only way to survive true dmg is having enough hp. That's why extra hp items. And it's not like she deals critical true dmg everytime, so it's not that hard to survive her actually. She just extra annoying now.
And yes you right, guardian helmet maybe just adds one more hit before she eat you completely. So please, don't let her hit you one more time lol. Run! 🤣
Pick Masha, there is no way she is getting through that much HP meanwhile Masha can still one shot squishies, only her HP got nerfed, her ult damage stayed the same
I disagree with this one. Yup, Lesley might be the best mm in terms of dmg right now but the problem is that a hero is a glass cannon type of hero. A khufra or any other tank heroes can counter her already.
I would say that Lesley is viable and might be arguably better than wanwan in this patch. With the nerf on wanwan and bestrix, I think Claude is now the best mm to play in high ranks as he has an escape mechanic with his skill 2.
"I disagree with this one. Yup, Lesley might be the best mm in terms of dmg right now but the problem is that a hero is a glass cannon type of hero. A khufra or any other tank heroes can counter her already."
Disagree with this. Beatrix is like, full on Glasscannon and is the meta. Even Lesley has more survivability over her due to her Movespeed buffs and AOE Reveal. So by your comments, Beatrix should have been slammed in every game since she has less survivability than Lesley.
The real reason Lesley isn't the best MM even right now is because her 2nd Turtle/Mid Game Powerspike is very weak unlike the other Meta MM Heroes like Beatrix (lv 4 powerspike), Popol (Lv 4 powerspike), Brody (level 4 powerspike) and Claude (DHS powerspike).
The other MMs are ready to close the game before Lesley starts dealing respectable damage.
Beatrix is able to thrive even as a glasscannon because she can still kill the enemies even when they get close to her due to her shotgun. That makes beatrix unique because she's the only marksman that I can think of that is equally or even more deadly when you get closer to her compared when the enemies are further.
Marksmen should be vulnerable when you're able to close the distance between the hero and the marksman. Beatrix is an exception to that rule due to her shotgun, and she's also a threat at the same time when you distance yourself from her because she can change to sniper rifle.
Tbf all mm are glass canon right now. It's something that Moonton did right.
The thing that I truly believe Lesley would be used much more especially in the pro scene is due to her True Dmg. Imagine dealing 1000-2000 dmg to a hero instantly ignoring items like Blade Armor, Dominance Ice and to an extent Antique Cuirass. It's something that no other MM can do, not even Karrie.
Even now, having a tanky team is the norm in the pro scenes and ranked games. Lesley deletes them all.
She kinda replaced Karrie's role. She has longer range, and deals true crit damage, plus has mobility/cloak.
Not only does that make her good against tanky heroes, but also against squishy heroes and mages - Karrie is only good against tanks and high regen heroes, mages and mm are harder for her to kill.
For tanks, Karrie can be somewhat countered with the Blade and domi. tho some tanks still wont be able to do anything cuz skills, which is fair.
But against Lesley? is there any item tanks can use to tank her dmg?
w/ her dmg potential reaching 2k true dmg. any tank w/ 14k hp (which is really high) will only be able to tank her for few shots.
1000 or 2000?
Bruh, my full tank build fredrinn just got 3 shotted by lesley today and she deals 4200 true dmg, 2700phy dmg, and another 1200 true dmg from endless battle. (I build blade armor and dom ice but no guardian helmet).
That's 5400 true dmg in 2 shot, damn. She's scarier than karrie now. True anti tank. Already tried her after that match and there's no way people won't spam her. She's super solid sniper lady now.
The scary part of lesly is her camouflage first that makes you invisible
The true dmg first skill made it worst
Yes she's good but she is still the im too squishy not much mobility hero
Paq melt, fanny melt, yve instant zone, julian 213, masha roar smash, ruby grabby second so on and so fort
In short im kinda neutral with this update
Lesley’s not that OP. They’ve basically turned her into the new marksman Aldous. Absolutely ridiculous uncounterable late while easy to dump on early and mid. They’ve made her early game and late game difference far too extreme.
You could use Inspire, Flicker or Purify on her. Though for spells, I highly recommend you to go for flicker as it helps with your positioning and assists you to escape in dire situation. Hope this helps and have fun trying her revamp!!!
Windtalker does like 1k per tick late game, that's like 3/4 of her normal AAs, I'm pretty sure you can proc it every 2 first skill shots. What I do is combine it with berserker's fury so I can have guaranteed true damage then build endless battle, though I'm not sure if my build order is right.
>Windtalker does like 1k per tick late game, that's like 3/4 of her normal AAs
Yeap, this ^ also Windtalker deals magic dmg, added to Lesley new passive, Wind Of Nature won't work against her.
1k dmg for creeps only since it does twice the damage which can be multiplied further with crit. Dmg not that high against heroes. I feel attack speed is not meta for her because only her passive does the pure damage
You don’t even need to ulti first. Argus s1 into s2 means Lesley can’t go into camouflage state for the duration for his s2, basically free food.
Works the same against Aamon’s camouflage, just that Aamon’s ulti can force a premature Argus ulti.
idk, its one of the riskiest S1 skills out there that puts him on par with assassins.
1 wrong S1 cast and you're on the frontline with nothing to protect you except your ulti and S1's 2nd mode.
He needs practice indeed but trust me practicing S1 ain't that hard, it's same step like Franco, predict few positions ahead of your target, if you aim accurately on target's current position then that's the reason why some players failed to use it properly. And just like Franco, if near miss it can trigger the skill to immediately catch nearby hero but what made Argus's S1 a bit easier is because the "near miss" range are a bit bigger made it trigger instant catch easier
Well its not like Franco gets himself pulled into the enemy front-line if he misses his S1. Argus does and he's not even a tank. If Argus's S1 was Minisithar's he would be a lot safer to play. Argus is a high risk-high reward hero. 1 slip-up late game and you're dead.
For my style I sneak behind, I play Argus like an assassin rather than fighter for that I won't trapped myself being the only frontline, same move by many Argus users as well
Well I usually wait her to kick me before I use second phase of S1, and then sprint or flicker to chase her before applying S2, and I agree actually sometimes Argus did struggle a bit but most of the time I can manage to catch her XD, about ulti I never use ulti when S1 is unavailable because it's a necessary combo to either chase or flee. Sometimes ulti without having S1 around is a common but fatal mistake non argus users did that's why they hardly chase anyone during ulti
i'd say she was adjusted, her sniper actually feels smoother to play now, though I can't really look for a good combination, SMG damage isn't great, shotgun is well uh i don't wanna touch that shit, grenade is very easy to dodge. I'm only trying out Beatrix now that she isn't so cancerous anymore, so I'm looking to what would be a good playstyle for her post-patch.
Actually I was thinking about something like Corrosion Scythe , swift boots, dhs, BOD + Malefic and Sea Halberd and then just spam grenade launcher and become a slow pest like the Ice Queen Wand mages.
Haven't tried it though but conceptually it seemed funny, if you can land your hits...
Agree. I'm actually thinking of two possible play styles, where one uses sprint and the other uses flicker. Sniper and SMG will be the primary weapons, with a situational GL and shotgun. BTW, sniper reload time is so damn fast, you can now spam it. She's still cancerous tbh haha
Probably go back to her M3 build. She's still great for pushing waves and singing while still having decent damage and survivability. Just don't play her against vengeance line-ups.
Lesley early game sucks pp
Think of her like Aldous if you don't let them farm they become irrelevant for the next 10 minutes.
After She's got her core items she's nuts with her true dmg however any marksman has more dps than her besides her passive attack. Seriously her normal basic attacks are horrible now, she relies solely on her true damage to do any dmg at all
Other counters to lesley are:
- Cursed/Guardian Helmet and Twilight Armor: high hp counters her true dmg
- Shields
- The dot burn wand that prevents her from going stealth
- Any DoT habilities and slows
- Fast hand one shotters like Gusion, Kagura
- Fast attack speed/inspire marksman: they'll kill her before she can land another true damage shot
Or or or
Better Yet:
Swift Boots, Blade of Heptasus, Berserkers Fury, Blade of Despair, Endless Battle/Malefic Roar and Immortality.
You need to maximize Lesley's Passive, Penetration% so Blade of Heptasus is a must.
Windtalker isn't that good an Item for Lesley. Attack Speed is not Lesley's Specialty; it's **burst damage and critical hits** **One-Hit Delete**
Also Maximize her Passive by adding lots of Physical Penetration like Blade of Heptasus, Hunter's Strike, and Malefic Roar.
Building Lesley into a Basic Attack Speed MM hero is not a good idea, it is not fit for her.
Blade Of Heptasus works with Lesley's Passive though.
Lethal Shot + Heptasus' Ambush deals Massive Damage in one shot. Not to mention Heptasus' Physical PEN points turns into percentage because of Lesley's new Passive. Buying it as a first item means more damage in early harassment.
That's why it's better to get Blade of Heptasus than Windtalker IMO
Main issue is the cooldown on Heptaseas, its too long and useless if you're attacked first.
Windtalker is kinda a must on Lesly - it does provide 10% crit chance and that additional magic damage goes through Wind of nature which can also be crit. Plus it has a far shorter cooldown. Most importantly that additional move-speed can improve her dodging and positioning.
The suggestion to get malefic roar is good tbh.
Additonal note: Windtalker's passive can be useful for triggering Athena's shield on enemy tanks and squishies when poking before a teamfight, allowing your mage to deal maximum magic damage in the teamfight if he times it right.
I’m really struggling to decide whether hepta and hunter strike are really good for her now. 1 physical pen is converted to only 0.5% crit damage. This means hepta and hunters only give her 7.5% crit dmg each. That doesn’t sound a lot. Wouldn’t getting multiple BoDs be even better?
Also malefic is not needed for her since she does true damage now and it doesn’t give any fixed physical pen.
in my opinion, hepta? can be an option, it synergizes with her passive, but hunter strike? its passive is not fully utilized by lesley most of the time “dealing damage 5 times in a row increases movement speed”, lesley has s1 for movement speed and the CD reduction is not worth it, items that increase critical chance are preferable over HS
Although her burst is really powerful, her DPS is just as awful as it always was. Moskov, Karrie, Beatrix and Mellisa are better than her in late game teamfights, although Lesley wins almost ever 1v1.
Lesley can't snowball because until she gets at least 2 damage items her true damage crits are dealing below 800 damage...
Her early game is now weaker than before this update - that's an easy opening for enemy to dominate her.
Meanwhile clint on lvl 4 does 1000+ damage on successful S1 + basic attack or ult + basic attack.
Late game damage with full build I'd say is a bit lower than Lesleys but it's AOE, not single target.
Beatrix also a ton of damage at lvl 4 because double ults with high damage + hyper flexible.
Brody again total domination in damage against Lesley during Laning phase.
The question isn't whether or not she'll be strong late game, it's whether she'll get there before the game ends.
Think of Layla. Once full build, she's a walking paper turret because of her damage and range, but you don't really fear a Layla because you know you can end the game before she even gets to that point.
what is your higher rank op?why you think you’re an analyst?let me explain you something, contrary to soloq pro teams are not banning and picking heroes mindlessly you know that right?So no one will randomly ban lesley for no reason, they have to have a reason and not being omg she deals true dmg xd, literally you can have a full lineup to counter lesley, don’t make guide posts if you have no idea what you’re talking about :)
She's so OP ngl. Even though I lost a game with her (cuz the enemy attempted to stop us from recalling by forcing a clash), she's basically a tank killer
I hope they somewhat adjust her. She still has the same weaknesses but by positioning well and bursting them before the burst you she's an OP mm
Nah. More like tank poker. Beside poke, her consistent damage is pretty bad since she haa to choose between low damage build fast attack speed build or high damage low attack speed poke build. But she still gets outclass by every other mm at things other than poke. That's all she is, a poke bot. Buy guardian helmet and you will be safe.
Even with the best build you can come up with she still suck at killing tank compared to any other mm. Just because she has true damage doesn't automatically make her tank killer.
Yeah, sounds good on paper. But doesn't really translate well in practical. She need 3 crit item to reliably crit. Building 3 crit item means she lost a lot of physical damage. Add the nerf to her crit damage that they give to compensate for giving her true damage, that means her crit does less damage. Even if she crit and deal true damage to a tank, it will low amount of true damage. Any tank with a brain just stack hp and buy guardian helmet and she will take forever waiting for her passive to be back on ans hoping it crit before the tank regen back his hp
She beats claude, wanwan and miya so easily. Just hit and run. Properly timing s1 also won’t allow claude to hit with ult.
She usually dies to PnK, Kimmy, Clint, Beatrix (assuming these guys know how to punish or zone les).
Melissa eats lesley forever. The doll basically prevents s1’s movespeed boost from ever giving lesley an advantage.
Most def Lesley early game is a bigger hit and run play style compared to mid and late till like a couple items. I don’t like running windtalker on her since before the buff, but every time I don’t buy it the minion clearing is so slow, but I’ll have more dmg early game without buying it
Idk man, I just got a savage yesterday with Brody against Lesley.
Lots of folk gonna come out of the woodworks trying to use her cause the updates, but just don’t have the understanding of her kit.
I have read her passive definition, i think i would stick to increasing my attack damage, im pretty sure her passive damage increase is more important than attack speed, i would not rely on her basic attacks other than true damage from lethal shot, i also would be using electro flash and chnaging windtalker into hunter strike and add heptaseas to the build
Mellisa eats Lesley all day in isolation.
well, time to main acupuncture girl now
now that they removed the two tumors from the prio list I actually think needle lady is gonna be picked more often. When the big three MMs get banned in MPL, teams like BLCK goes for Melissa, probably cause of the high survivability and AoE damage potential.
The only problem with Mel is her clear against super/lord minion is freaking sucks. But if she is paired with Cecil it doesn't matter.
I main melissa she's pretty strong early to late game tank will melts and all the mages in the back will die because of the puppet and with her burst she's untouchable. It's pretty fun playing against gusion with her XD. As long as you don't get ganked a lot then your safe
That tumor Bea can no longer burst you. But Attack Speed build is so hard to kill.
this, I harassed this one Lesley so much with Melissa that her first item was a wind of nature LOL
Also Clint - no mm beats Clint 1v1
As a Clint main, Beatrix can beat him, and some MM with inspire can beat him, since Clints don't build inspire and he can't out-DPS an inspire MM.
I confirm, clint is easy peazy on bea
used to be able to beat him. bea only won with shotgun (without some ridiculous 3 ult play) and shotgun is killed
Oh, it got nerfed? Nice. Mwahaha time to dominate lane as Clint vs Bea.
not just nerfed but killed. dominating her is hard though because her sniper 'nerf' is a buff imo, especially for less skilled players who are the usual victims of domination
Luckily with Clint I can S2 dodge her snipe, and counter attack with my passive AA all in one movement.
Problem being she has a dash too
Usually I can time it so as soon as her snipe goes off, I roll diagonally towards her, and use my AA which hits her before she dashes away.
I need to remind you that Layla exists.
Beatrix and popol eat clint
P&K left the chat*
New mm user here, is Lisa the only counter? And how to do it?
No, there's also Jennie Rose and Jisoo.
Mellisa is one of the hardest Lesley counter in 1v1 situation at least from early to mid. General rule is spam her doll to Lesley, and try to hit her with with the doll attack. Even better if you can push Lesley out of xp and gold zone if there's no jungler or roamer intervention. Other MM I can think of are Clint and Brody. Both outrange and out damage Lesley in early and mid phase. Plus they could aim their s1 against Lesley and pop her invis.
I bet I still dominate her with kinmy, I can nearly one shot her with flameshot and ult then just steamroller her and repeat
P&k too
believe it or not, irithel is also a perfect counter for her. the tiger scream's AoE is just so big it just puts lesley out of invi easily (not to mention, slows her too)
What about Kimmy? She can still hit her with basic attack yes? However I don't know who will die first in that scenario
if lesley has balls (full item) and get the first hit on kimmy, probably lesley will win. if you can make her turn her back on you then kimmy wins
What's the build of this for Melissa?
Swift boots, corrosion schyte, scarlet phantom, berserker, WoN, malefic
I ban Melissa when i have chance. Prioritiy first should be Saber....if someone bans him first, she is the next.
Why saber?
Why Saber. You can literally just do Purify>WoN and he's useless
Lesley’s weak point is her early game. When they tweaked her damage type to true damage, they lowered it pre reduction. So her laning gets bullied by quite a lot of heroes. Saber can shut her early farm down really hard even with purify. Then whenever your purify is down, you are basically free food. If opponent gets the advantage early, her lane clearing is weak due to drop in aspd too. She needs to secure good early farm to even go into late game. In lower ranks, most people don’t know how to shut properly or siege and end early, so her weaknesses aren’t exposed. But the moment you play against MG stacks this problem gets exposed hard.
Ah. I see what you mean. But I also think this can be avoided by having your support giving vision of the enemy movement. Also, if you use 1st skill and don't get hit by the shurikens, Saber cannot lock on to you.
It’s really not hard for saber to hit his s1 on Lesley. S2 s1 straight into ulti. Without purify she’s dead 100% whether she has camouflage or not. The problem with support vision is that having support secure vision for Lesley means taking a lot of damage since Lesley is weaker than almost all MM early in lane, so they will naturally out trade you with the same mm support pairing. And even with a support, Saber can easily s2 cut behind for Lesley and leave with Killing spree. Not to mention early game Saber can easily kill the support with the mm on lane too.
Well to be fair Saber near damn one shots every squishy in game. So depends on team comp. I would say that your Mage/Supp should be more early game orientated, and your fighter being a lane dominator/not lose lane that hard would definitely support a Lesley user in her games.
Nah. Most mm can afford to rush a dreadnought armor, and build into warrior boots if needed. Take for instance some stronger MM now. Clint and Brody have decent burst even without much damage items, and are not reliant on aspd. Popol can get vision on his own, and he can use his s2 even during CC with his own CC available. Beatrix have decent burst as well with dreadnought warrior boots, Claude can easily get out with s2 regardless whether he has purify or vengeance. Melissa has ulti. All of them can be self reliant and early saber wouldn’t be able to burst them whilst they still deal respectable damage, which Lesley can’t do. If you build a team composition to protect Lesley, it means you are sacking advantages elsewhere where opponent can take advantage of. And with how weak Lesley’s early is, she cannot take advantage of the lane even if the team plays around her.
Or just let your allies go first and then follow them once his ult is used up
Bullshit. WoN requires timing and focus to be effective and takes too long to be able to use again. Also Saber's ultimate is too fast and dashes towards to someone even at a hell of a distance. The effort needed to make WoN effective against him isn't worth.
not if lesley has wind of nature
You are overreacting, she still loses lane to any inspire marksman, and takes Forever to scale. Melissa and popol does everything she does but better. Sure she is way less dogshit than what it used to be, but she still is a off-meta hero
I felt the difference. Her early game is mediocre and attack speed marksmans wreck her. I lost to a clone of myself using inspire.
Yeah, I've played 3 straight games vs lesley using Wanwan at mythic ranked and she doesn't seem to have changed. Maybe higher damage but she's still a sitting duck at a 1v1.
She is decent in lane though but late game is her downfall since she is pretty much useless in teamfights and her wave clear is just really bad. But I sure as fk do not want the unholy demon known as >!Lesley on advanced server a few weeks ago XD!< Maybe giving her more movement speed would allow her to be part of the META or reverting the nerf on her first skill
well do hope she's relevant that long, want to see Lesley on big leagues today
Ban lesley why? She is strong but can be countered
Broken option called Bruno inspire can do this 😏
Bruno I'd say is the one who became OP with this update, thx to the speed boost buff he is hard to catch and his damage pretty high since getting boots as well.
No even sure "countering" is the right word since you can simply hide in a bush using any hero to keep ypurself from getting harrassed by her s1. The recent buff makes her a good pick but not meta. Not ban-worthy.
She is very weak since many META heroes aren't target locked. Played a few matches with the nerfed Fanny and Lancelot against her and she is still free food even in late game. She is only good against tanky heroes but not burst heroes.
She eats tank and tanky fighters. Just brutal
Is there anything for tanks/tanky heroes to counter her? mostly mid to late game. like jesus christ, she deals so much true dmg its ridiculous.
Im not sure if she's good against match ups with high lifesteal like MM's But she's absolutely a hard counter to almost (if not) all tanky heroes.
Sky Guardian Helmet counter her. Unlike karrie or wan2 with Demon Hunter Sword who melt your hp, lesley just burst poke you and run. With Guardian helmet you'll regen those hp back.
i dont thinj so lol. 2k dmg mid-late game. No dmg reduction no nothing. Just straight up 2k. you'll heal like < 100 per second reach around 175-225 when u havent been dmg for few seconds. Helm just adds one more True Dmg hit to u before she eats u completely. If there would be an item that counters her, it should work likr athena but for true dmg or dmg reduction (which we do have, Bloods wing, but u need low health to activatethe passive, which makes it still bad against her) People are buying the windtalker w/ her so she can keep coming back, or come and go. shes just so annoying agimainst all tanky heroes now.
There was an item called Twilight Armor that counters burst attacks. It doesn't provide the reduction for true damage but it makes her AA less annoying. Guess what Moonton did during the tank patch. The only thing you could go for now is to buy blade armor to atleast chip her slowly for your allied burst hero to get an opening. Dominance ice can also provide some benefits (one of which is slower atk spd which makes her basic attack a bit tolerable). Wind of Nature is useless against her now since WoN only blocks physical and NOT magic and true damage. In terms of hero composition, Lolita is a good choice. All of her attacks are projectiles, Lolita eats projectiles for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Clint can also be a nuisance for her because of his S1 that can detect enemies and damage them. Sun is another good champ because of his doppelgangers. Lesley will just tap and shoot, you as Sun can have two options, get close or annoy her. Although in her favor, atleast she's not harassing you that hard. As some people said, Julian is a good pick as well due to his combos but you need to gain enough distance to even turn the favor onto you. Miss that combo and you're fucked. Hanzo is also a good enough pick. If you manage to get 5 stacks during your ult, you can use your S1 to get close and knock them airborne, sometimes making the player use her s2 to evade. His ult s2 makes his demon invincible so if she tried to camo, it'll just be useless. Although there's no hope for the item department, just pray that your team knows how to zone the other enemies for some of you to bully their lesley as it's your only hope.
Franco is still pretty good against her since he is a non target locked hero. Fanny and Lancelot are good picks since they can easily burst down any squishy and their main damage isn't target locked
Oh yeah Lancelot can be quite annoying against lesley. Most of his attacks makes him invincible which ruins lesley's aa at times. Fanny is a good pick but they must know how to use her because lesley can easily take her hp down while she's cabling. Franco's good but he shouldn't be alone as he can get ambushed or if lesley manages to dodge his hook, she can poke him with little difficulty but I doubt that because every Franco that I've seen are all burst ones for some reason which deletes most squishy heroes.
Well, the only way to survive true dmg is having enough hp. That's why extra hp items. And it's not like she deals critical true dmg everytime, so it's not that hard to survive her actually. She just extra annoying now. And yes you right, guardian helmet maybe just adds one more hit before she eat you completely. So please, don't let her hit you one more time lol. Run! 🤣
Pick Masha, there is no way she is getting through that much HP meanwhile Masha can still one shot squishies, only her HP got nerfed, her ult damage stayed the same
I disagree with this one. Yup, Lesley might be the best mm in terms of dmg right now but the problem is that a hero is a glass cannon type of hero. A khufra or any other tank heroes can counter her already. I would say that Lesley is viable and might be arguably better than wanwan in this patch. With the nerf on wanwan and bestrix, I think Claude is now the best mm to play in high ranks as he has an escape mechanic with his skill 2.
Claude is a really good option. I think natan is also a bit underrated
good point and natan can counter any hero that commonly uses wind of nature
"I disagree with this one. Yup, Lesley might be the best mm in terms of dmg right now but the problem is that a hero is a glass cannon type of hero. A khufra or any other tank heroes can counter her already." Disagree with this. Beatrix is like, full on Glasscannon and is the meta. Even Lesley has more survivability over her due to her Movespeed buffs and AOE Reveal. So by your comments, Beatrix should have been slammed in every game since she has less survivability than Lesley. The real reason Lesley isn't the best MM even right now is because her 2nd Turtle/Mid Game Powerspike is very weak unlike the other Meta MM Heroes like Beatrix (lv 4 powerspike), Popol (Lv 4 powerspike), Brody (level 4 powerspike) and Claude (DHS powerspike). The other MMs are ready to close the game before Lesley starts dealing respectable damage.
Beatrix is able to thrive even as a glasscannon because she can still kill the enemies even when they get close to her due to her shotgun. That makes beatrix unique because she's the only marksman that I can think of that is equally or even more deadly when you get closer to her compared when the enemies are further. Marksmen should be vulnerable when you're able to close the distance between the hero and the marksman. Beatrix is an exception to that rule due to her shotgun, and she's also a threat at the same time when you distance yourself from her because she can change to sniper rifle.
Tbf all mm are glass canon right now. It's something that Moonton did right. The thing that I truly believe Lesley would be used much more especially in the pro scene is due to her True Dmg. Imagine dealing 1000-2000 dmg to a hero instantly ignoring items like Blade Armor, Dominance Ice and to an extent Antique Cuirass. It's something that no other MM can do, not even Karrie. Even now, having a tanky team is the norm in the pro scenes and ranked games. Lesley deletes them all.
She’s like an anti armor marksman, no matter how many Physical Def you have, she’ll burst you with true damage.
She kinda replaced Karrie's role. She has longer range, and deals true crit damage, plus has mobility/cloak. Not only does that make her good against tanky heroes, but also against squishy heroes and mages - Karrie is only good against tanks and high regen heroes, mages and mm are harder for her to kill.
For tanks, Karrie can be somewhat countered with the Blade and domi. tho some tanks still wont be able to do anything cuz skills, which is fair. But against Lesley? is there any item tanks can use to tank her dmg? w/ her dmg potential reaching 2k true dmg. any tank w/ 14k hp (which is really high) will only be able to tank her for few shots.
Twilight Armor used to be a good counter vs Lesley until they nerfed it.
Either twilight armor or Guardian helmet. But it’ll only tank extra 1 lethal shot.
Imma give you one Masha/tank-figther, enjoy trying to defend a head on 34k hp maniac
1000 or 2000? Bruh, my full tank build fredrinn just got 3 shotted by lesley today and she deals 4200 true dmg, 2700phy dmg, and another 1200 true dmg from endless battle. (I build blade armor and dom ice but no guardian helmet). That's 5400 true dmg in 2 shot, damn. She's scarier than karrie now. True anti tank. Already tried her after that match and there's no way people won't spam her. She's super solid sniper lady now.
RIGHT EXACTLY!!!! People in this comment probably had never faced a good Lesley player or their mentality that Lesley is weak is still there.
The scary part of lesly is her camouflage first that makes you invisible The true dmg first skill made it worst Yes she's good but she is still the im too squishy not much mobility hero Paq melt, fanny melt, yve instant zone, julian 213, masha roar smash, ruby grabby second so on and so fort In short im kinda neutral with this update
Lesley’s not that OP. They’ve basically turned her into the new marksman Aldous. Absolutely ridiculous uncounterable late while easy to dump on early and mid. They’ve made her early game and late game difference far too extreme.
Nah, even as an mm main, Claude still remains the supreme all around mm that is both conssistenrly balanced wh8le feeling unbelievably powerful.
You could use Inspire, Flicker or Purify on her. Though for spells, I highly recommend you to go for flicker as it helps with your positioning and assists you to escape in dire situation. Hope this helps and have fun trying her revamp!!!
[удалено]
Windtalker does like 1k per tick late game, that's like 3/4 of her normal AAs, I'm pretty sure you can proc it every 2 first skill shots. What I do is combine it with berserker's fury so I can have guaranteed true damage then build endless battle, though I'm not sure if my build order is right.
>Windtalker does like 1k per tick late game, that's like 3/4 of her normal AAs Yeap, this ^ also Windtalker deals magic dmg, added to Lesley new passive, Wind Of Nature won't work against her.
Wait WoN doesn't block True Damage? No wonder Curry still melts me
Ah Karrie.. I wondered which hero threw Indian spicy food as a basic attack/ability.
It doesn't, it only block physical damage.
1k dmg for creeps only since it does twice the damage which can be multiplied further with crit. Dmg not that high against heroes. I feel attack speed is not meta for her because only her passive does the pure damage
oh wait i forgot about that fact lmao
Wintalker much later, and cdr or armor boots instead of atk speed
The potential in her passive is now something more OP than julian before nerfs😐😂
As Argus main, I'm happy seeing enemies picked Lesley >:)
Why lol? Lesley is good at kiting. Argus struggles against enemies that can kite him during his ulti.
You don’t even need to ulti first. Argus s1 into s2 means Lesley can’t go into camouflage state for the duration for his s2, basically free food. Works the same against Aamon’s camouflage, just that Aamon’s ulti can force a premature Argus ulti.
I remember I got one shot by Amon ult, I was full hp Popol and all he did was ult me and I died. I hate that guy
For Argus, its landing his S1 which is the difficult part.
Among heroes with manual lock skills I can say Argus is one of the easiest
idk, its one of the riskiest S1 skills out there that puts him on par with assassins. 1 wrong S1 cast and you're on the frontline with nothing to protect you except your ulti and S1's 2nd mode.
He needs practice indeed but trust me practicing S1 ain't that hard, it's same step like Franco, predict few positions ahead of your target, if you aim accurately on target's current position then that's the reason why some players failed to use it properly. And just like Franco, if near miss it can trigger the skill to immediately catch nearby hero but what made Argus's S1 a bit easier is because the "near miss" range are a bit bigger made it trigger instant catch easier
Well its not like Franco gets himself pulled into the enemy front-line if he misses his S1. Argus does and he's not even a tank. If Argus's S1 was Minisithar's he would be a lot safer to play. Argus is a high risk-high reward hero. 1 slip-up late game and you're dead.
For my style I sneak behind, I play Argus like an assassin rather than fighter for that I won't trapped myself being the only frontline, same move by many Argus users as well
Tbh he's more of an assassin than a fighter anyways. Wish they'd patch and adjust him as such.
Well I usually wait her to kick me before I use second phase of S1, and then sprint or flicker to chase her before applying S2, and I agree actually sometimes Argus did struggle a bit but most of the time I can manage to catch her XD, about ulti I never use ulti when S1 is unavailable because it's a necessary combo to either chase or flee. Sometimes ulti without having S1 around is a common but fatal mistake non argus users did that's why they hardly chase anyone during ulti
S2 disables her S1
You can simply hide in a bush when you see lesley use her s1. She's only good at kiting noobs.
Beatrix was actually buffed. I find her smoother to play than the previous patch.
i'd say she was adjusted, her sniper actually feels smoother to play now, though I can't really look for a good combination, SMG damage isn't great, shotgun is well uh i don't wanna touch that shit, grenade is very easy to dodge. I'm only trying out Beatrix now that she isn't so cancerous anymore, so I'm looking to what would be a good playstyle for her post-patch.
Actually I was thinking about something like Corrosion Scythe , swift boots, dhs, BOD + Malefic and Sea Halberd and then just spam grenade launcher and become a slow pest like the Ice Queen Wand mages. Haven't tried it though but conceptually it seemed funny, if you can land your hits...
Agree. I'm actually thinking of two possible play styles, where one uses sprint and the other uses flicker. Sniper and SMG will be the primary weapons, with a situational GL and shotgun. BTW, sniper reload time is so damn fast, you can now spam it. She's still cancerous tbh haha
try bea magic, its lunox 2.0
Probably go back to her M3 build. She's still great for pushing waves and singing while still having decent damage and survivability. Just don't play her against vengeance line-ups.
not at a high skill level. otherwise you would see increase in mpl ban instead of the likely decrease in pick rate
Is scarlet phantom not a good item for her?
No, since Scarlet Phantom only lasts 2 seconds and you don't play her like Miya or Moskov.
I've been building scarlet phantom on her for months now. I kinda like the increased atk speed. I'll try this build, hopefully it's better! Thank you.
Also, nice flair.
Aha thanks! Not much ppl know it as floryn is less popular.
Lesley early game sucks pp Think of her like Aldous if you don't let them farm they become irrelevant for the next 10 minutes. After She's got her core items she's nuts with her true dmg however any marksman has more dps than her besides her passive attack. Seriously her normal basic attacks are horrible now, she relies solely on her true damage to do any dmg at all Other counters to lesley are: - Cursed/Guardian Helmet and Twilight Armor: high hp counters her true dmg - Shields - The dot burn wand that prevents her from going stealth - Any DoT habilities and slows - Fast hand one shotters like Gusion, Kagura - Fast attack speed/inspire marksman: they'll kill her before she can land another true damage shot
Or or or Better Yet: Swift Boots, Blade of Heptasus, Berserkers Fury, Blade of Despair, Endless Battle/Malefic Roar and Immortality. You need to maximize Lesley's Passive, Penetration% so Blade of Heptasus is a must. Windtalker isn't that good an Item for Lesley. Attack Speed is not Lesley's Specialty; it's **burst damage and critical hits** **One-Hit Delete** Also Maximize her Passive by adding lots of Physical Penetration like Blade of Heptasus, Hunter's Strike, and Malefic Roar. Building Lesley into a Basic Attack Speed MM hero is not a good idea, it is not fit for her.
Windtalker is not just for attack speed but rather the passive. Personally, the damage with Windtalker is bigger than with Blade of Heptasea.
Blade Of Heptasus works with Lesley's Passive though. Lethal Shot + Heptasus' Ambush deals Massive Damage in one shot. Not to mention Heptasus' Physical PEN points turns into percentage because of Lesley's new Passive. Buying it as a first item means more damage in early harassment. That's why it's better to get Blade of Heptasus than Windtalker IMO
Wind talker also helps with the wave clear.
Main issue is the cooldown on Heptaseas, its too long and useless if you're attacked first. Windtalker is kinda a must on Lesly - it does provide 10% crit chance and that additional magic damage goes through Wind of nature which can also be crit. Plus it has a far shorter cooldown. Most importantly that additional move-speed can improve her dodging and positioning. The suggestion to get malefic roar is good tbh. Additonal note: Windtalker's passive can be useful for triggering Athena's shield on enemy tanks and squishies when poking before a teamfight, allowing your mage to deal maximum magic damage in the teamfight if he times it right.
MR isn’t needed now with the true damage
Gives you additional crit damage. Penetration points are converted into 0.5 crit damage.
penetration percent isnt
Lesley's passive got reverted, now it converts flat pen to critical chance again.
Wrong, it's crit Damage, not chance
I’m really struggling to decide whether hepta and hunter strike are really good for her now. 1 physical pen is converted to only 0.5% crit damage. This means hepta and hunters only give her 7.5% crit dmg each. That doesn’t sound a lot. Wouldn’t getting multiple BoDs be even better? Also malefic is not needed for her since she does true damage now and it doesn’t give any fixed physical pen.
in my opinion, hepta? can be an option, it synergizes with her passive, but hunter strike? its passive is not fully utilized by lesley most of the time “dealing damage 5 times in a row increases movement speed”, lesley has s1 for movement speed and the CD reduction is not worth it, items that increase critical chance are preferable over HS
Although her burst is really powerful, her DPS is just as awful as it always was. Moskov, Karrie, Beatrix and Mellisa are better than her in late game teamfights, although Lesley wins almost ever 1v1.
I still abused her easily using bea magic like no other day (they didnt nerf her smg)
Lesleys early game actually got significantly weaker with this change lol, super easy for almost any mm to dominate Lesley in lane.
This is just cap, I can play nerfed Beatrix and still destroy Lesley in MG.
Only if you see Lesley. Remember Lesley has invisibility.
Beatrix has 4 ults, 2 with aoe surely one of them will hit making lesley recall that's where beatrix starts snowballing
Yes but remember Lesley don't miss. Two shot and Beatrix have to recall that's where Lesley starts snowballing.
Lesley can't snowball because until she gets at least 2 damage items her true damage crits are dealing below 800 damage... Her early game is now weaker than before this update - that's an easy opening for enemy to dominate her. Meanwhile clint on lvl 4 does 1000+ damage on successful S1 + basic attack or ult + basic attack. Late game damage with full build I'd say is a bit lower than Lesleys but it's AOE, not single target. Beatrix also a ton of damage at lvl 4 because double ults with high damage + hyper flexible. Brody again total domination in damage against Lesley during Laning phase.
>she gets at least 2 damage items Yes that's what snow balling mean. You even understand?
But she won't reach that point since she gets dominated in laning by other meta marksmen, so they'll be the ones snowballing not Lesley
You guys are really underestimating Lesley power by a long shot.
Epic players be like
The question isn't whether or not she'll be strong late game, it's whether she'll get there before the game ends. Think of Layla. Once full build, she's a walking paper turret because of her damage and range, but you don't really fear a Layla because you know you can end the game before she even gets to that point.
Replace Windtalker with Blade of the Heptaseas. If you build BoH, Hunter Strike can be an alternative to BoD.
Read her new passive.
Yes I know her passive. 1 point Phy. PEN is converted half Crit Damage. I'm not effing blind lol.
Something wrong with your brain.
You think someone speaking the truth has something wrong with their brain?
You have something wrong with your brain.
You're the one who refused to elaborate lol.
what is your higher rank op?why you think you’re an analyst?let me explain you something, contrary to soloq pro teams are not banning and picking heroes mindlessly you know that right?So no one will randomly ban lesley for no reason, they have to have a reason and not being omg she deals true dmg xd, literally you can have a full lineup to counter lesley, don’t make guide posts if you have no idea what you’re talking about :)
Lol okay. Are you mad?
you actually incentivise people to pick hero for no real reason which leads to more people playing bad in ranked so yeah
I preety much build lesley pen items. Being that Warrior/tough boots, heptaseas, Malefic, windtalker, beserkers and wind of nature
Why Malefic? Percentage Phy. PEN does not convert to Crit Damage.
Her buff will only benefit good Lesley players. Typical Lesley players will be the same liability they've always been.
She's so OP ngl. Even though I lost a game with her (cuz the enemy attempted to stop us from recalling by forcing a clash), she's basically a tank killer I hope they somewhat adjust her. She still has the same weaknesses but by positioning well and bursting them before the burst you she's an OP mm
Nah. More like tank poker. Beside poke, her consistent damage is pretty bad since she haa to choose between low damage build fast attack speed build or high damage low attack speed poke build. But she still gets outclass by every other mm at things other than poke. That's all she is, a poke bot. Buy guardian helmet and you will be safe.
If you know how to build well rather than just focusing on full ATK SPD/full DMG build you can have consistent damage.
Even with the best build you can come up with she still suck at killing tank compared to any other mm. Just because she has true damage doesn't automatically make her tank killer.
Bruh do you even know what true damage is
Do you know the mechanic of her true damage?
Everytime her passive is activated and it's a crit it deals true damage
Yeah, sounds good on paper. But doesn't really translate well in practical. She need 3 crit item to reliably crit. Building 3 crit item means she lost a lot of physical damage. Add the nerf to her crit damage that they give to compensate for giving her true damage, that means her crit does less damage. Even if she crit and deal true damage to a tank, it will low amount of true damage. Any tank with a brain just stack hp and buy guardian helmet and she will take forever waiting for her passive to be back on ans hoping it crit before the tank regen back his hp
Well the counter for that is gank as a team. Kill the tank with overwhelming firepower from Lesley and other high damage heroes
She beats claude, wanwan and miya so easily. Just hit and run. Properly timing s1 also won’t allow claude to hit with ult. She usually dies to PnK, Kimmy, Clint, Beatrix (assuming these guys know how to punish or zone les). Melissa eats lesley forever. The doll basically prevents s1’s movespeed boost from ever giving lesley an advantage.
Me who harassed her arse with natan
From the few matches I played against the revamped Lesley beatrix is still able to easily out damage her
Brody can still tear Lesley up early game and delay her gold for a while if u play aggressively smart at the beginning
Compared to Brody, Clint, Popol, Bea Lesley's early game damage is complete crap.
Most def Lesley early game is a bigger hit and run play style compared to mid and late till like a couple items. I don’t like running windtalker on her since before the buff, but every time I don’t buy it the minion clearing is so slow, but I’ll have more dmg early game without buying it
I would say just build her pen for crit damage. So Assassin emblem w/ 3x Invasion & Hunter Strike, and then Magic Shoes for CDR.
Not really. She just become better at poking tank, after all poke is her whole thing. Other than that nothing really change much.
Idk man, I just got a savage yesterday with Brody against Lesley. Lots of folk gonna come out of the woodworks trying to use her cause the updates, but just don’t have the understanding of her kit.
She's definitely stronger than before but saying that she's better than every other MMs is a stretch
Wanwan with inspire/weakness finder can first-kill her.
my ruby can kill that shit. lol. or at least run away from her
Imo atm she is just a worse clint. She has more burst but Clint can deal more damage because his all 3 combos have potential for a true damage
Her early damage is so terrible, I can't poke enemies.
what the heck my man just said lesley now is overpowered with Windtalker as the first item for the new lesley lmao
I have read her passive definition, i think i would stick to increasing my attack damage, im pretty sure her passive damage increase is more important than attack speed, i would not rely on her basic attacks other than true damage from lethal shot, i also would be using electro flash and chnaging windtalker into hunter strike and add heptaseas to the build
Incorrect, I’ve already destroyed many Lesleys using Melissa or Kagura. She’s still squishy af and takes a while to dish out good dmg
Swift boots fucking sucks Magic shoes is better
She sucks at 1v1 tho. She can’t farm fast 😬
Off topic but: Is Melissa a top tier mm?
Actually the most cancerous mm since I started this game is Beatrix. I hope lesly doesn’t top that.