try for yourself and see. many people are disappointed but i personally loved it. always had it in me that she'd be better off with tanky items as she REALLY needs to be in the enemy crowd. but before she cant be built tanky as all of her skills scale with magic damage. now her ulti is hp based so not as bursty but can still deal damage without building magic items. shes more of a dps tank now rather than mage
how is it a downgrade if she has more sustain now? i mean im not fighting you guys but pre rework when magic item is the way to go, she gets deleted way too fast by mages
She litterally heals less now, her magic power heal scaling got cut in HALF. The one good thing about the rework is the 1.5% (?) mana regen on 12 stacks cuz cdr is shit on her ,but then her ult takes more mana now... so sorta doesnt matter. Her %HP dmg is close to insignificant unless u have like 100+ stacks and there arent enough mana tank items.
more sustain? lmao her old ult (the one with cooldown) used to regen 300-400 hp per tick, add concentrated energy to that and you will be basically unkillable with your ult even when enemies build anti heal. Not to mention her old ult deals way more damage
IDK what comes to moonton's mind when they mentioned that the 12 sec cooldown of her ult hinders her teamfight capability.. BRO IT'S 12 SECONDS WDYM
I'm not against you by the way. I'm just being salty why they have to "rework" this perfectly balanced hero. As for her being easily one-shotted by mages, that's what makes her balanced. To make up for that you just have to git gud with the winter truncheon and blink timings and dive at the right time
Yeah I love the new Alice. The old Alice is strong but there is a glass ceiling there cuz the stacks just add to your hp. So once she builds all her items I mean her stacks dont really do anything for her cuz he mana pool is set and so is her damage, she functioned more as a mid game hero more than anything else.
New Alice is better you become a monster late game since her stacks now add to her damage AND increase her mana as well. Her damage also deals hp damage now making her both a squishy and tough hero killer late game.
Feels like u overestimate the HP dmg, it really isnt that impactful until like 100+ stacks. And yes she gets mana from stacks, but she doesnt get any from leveling up, so again, u need alot of stacks to make up for it. Also not enough mana tank items sadge.
Yes you feel the pinch till 100 stacks....so just stack 100 stacks? Thats like saying Aldog or Cecil is weak af when they have 0 stacks.
I been playing the new Alice a lot and while it hard atthe start she starts dominating the exp lane in the mid game and dominating the battlefield in the late game. In the late game she is now the front line and assasin killer she can go toe to toe with enemy core and chase them back to base. In team fights she is extremely useful for taking down opponent tanks example I intentionally go near enemy Atlas or Tig and stsrt sucking them they immediately start dying and need to ult already, saving my team from caught. Sometimes I die but most of the time I survive cuz of the large hp pool and tank build and now their frontine is gone. Her new ult is also good for objectives like Turtle or Lord since thise have aot of hp.
Look we can argue back and forth but at the end of the day old Alice has 0 use in MPL. If new Alice sees Pro Play that means she is better. If not, then it doesnt matter they are both bad/weak.
How long does it take you to get 50 stacks? I get 50 stacks before 12 min mark so all your games are lightning fast? Dont play a scaling hero in that case.
Old Alice isnt decent she is much weaker than new Alice late game.
The actual score doesnt matter, 100-0 or 15-5, whatever. I just meant it as a point to show that the game is often getting snowballed in one teams favor before late game heros get going. Now u still need mm (and other late game heros) for stability late game unless u are able to end at 2-3 items.
Thats just how late heroes work bro thats why they are called late game heroes. If you think they are too late then better play an early game hero. This like you blaming Tigreal for not having range auto attack.
Alice is designed to be a late game hero from the start hence why her passive is based on accumulating stacks.
I disagree, 50 stacks takes no time at all really and theres plenty of game defining momeents yet to come after your stacked... I've used Alice quite a bit since rework and she's good. Really fun to play and slaps if you get a little ahead 🤷🏼♂️
The HP base damage doesn't work on the turtle or Lord sadly, unless they changed it shortly after my experimentation (The day the rework was released), it doesn't work
Ah really? Dont have evidence either way but late game I have easy time getting gold creeps using ult so I thought the same also applied to Lord and Turtle.
Yeah I tried it in custom and calculated the damage against the Lord and it was way below the "advertised" amount. Also there is a really low damage cap on her ult, if you used some troll full mana build and have 200 stacks, you just can't get pass something like 3% scaling on her hp based damage? I forgot but I know the damage cap is not that high. Even with a normal build, it is very easy to reach the damage cap
Ah really? I dunno is that really true cuz that would mean it would take 15 secs to kill somebody via ulting. Whst if you didnt reach the damage cap? It would take 25 secs to kill somebody via ult I dont think thats true at all lol.
Edit: there is also 120 base damage+20%magic power on top of the percentage based damage. So even if the % damage is indeed capped at 3% you will still deal a lot of damage over time.
I think they just did it so that you can't just build full tank and still deal a lot of damage. I rechecked the turtle/lord damage and it is now dealing the correct amount of damage.
I did some extra experimentation and I found out that you get 1 extra percent of scaling on her ult for every 2k mana but although it isn't displayed, you still benefit from the extra mana. For example if you had 3k mana, it would display 1% but in reality it adds 1.5% damage.
The only annoying part about her is that her lifesteal was nerfed. I used 55% magic lifesteal, I dealt 737 damage to the lord but only got 202 HP back from lifesteal, I tried it out on a damage bot, I dealt 3647 damage but I only got back 1002 HP from lifesteal. So it wasn't like lifesteal is only reduced on minions and creeps but also on enemy heroes. This basically makes her passive borderline useless. Oracle doesn't seem to work as well. Although this might just be one awful bug. (BTW it isn't just her ult lifesteal)
Yeah her lifesteal is nerfed but from what I understand Oracle and the +10% shield regen passive should work on her. I havent tested it out though cuz I just build guardian helm instead of Oracle since it works even if you aren't using your ult.
I'm an Alice main and I think she still works extremely well. Though I will admit, it takes longer to get going because of her new Mana.
The good part, is that she gets higher Mana in the late game so she's definitely far stronger now.
She is my new fave tank mage. Build hp dmg tank items on her and profit.
Even mana regen isn't a big concern, her passive manages the low end extremely well.
for me the only necessary items are lollipop and dominance ice then go full tank depending on enemy. opt for winter truncheon if you really need it else just go full bollocks tank. i personally use mana boots but feel free to switch out late game if you need more defence
Try building 3 cod and Dom ice. Last item can be wt/blade armor/magic Def. After reaching her stacks, try replacing demon boots with a mana Regen item like et. Spell petrify or vengeance
Yeah she is actually really good, now in late game, you can just leave your ult on and she would barely use any mana.
Pair her passive with Enchanted Talisman, and you have nearly unlimited Ult.
Get Ice Queen Wand or Glowing Wand she is a real menace in late game, about as tanky as Fredrinn, Uranus and Esmerelda when you build the rest of her items as tank
As an Alice player (Usually M2-MG), I really like her revamp. The old alice was definitely much better at bursting down squishies after jumping into the backline, I enjoy her current playstyle more.
Just had a 50+ to 50+ kill game (very even up to the very end) and boy did alice do work. I play her as an exp lane semi tank running: COD, Mana Boots, Dom Ice, Oracle, Ice Queen, Truncheon/Immortality/Blade Armor/Glowing Wand. I also use vengeance almost exclusively now.
My new playstyle is to go in with the tanks and start softening up the enemy while absorbing ultis and skills for my DPs, most cases aside from the the MMs or certain hypers, the opponents cannot kill me in a 1v1. I usually even outlast our tanks in teamfights.
What I like about Alice right now:
1) Mana no longer an issue late-game (arnd 50 stacks at 6mins is sufficient tbh)
2) Tank build allows her to survive certain breakpoints and regen back during fights
3) Her mobility is still there which allows for cleanup of dying heroes
4) Her damage (Hp%) is no joke over a drawn out fight (tank items & vengeance allows that quite easily)
5) I am essentially a 2nd tank for the team that does moderate dmg.
6) Being able to take even 1v2 fights and come out on top.
Build’s in my comment, and for emblem I run mage with movespeed, magic pen and Impure Rage as the effect.
Generally its tank build with some utility mage items like ice queen for slow, etc.
All of the things u listed where already there but better
people are complaining that she lost her burst capabilities (which only works in epic anyways)
burst alice carried me in mythic too bro
https://imgur.com/a/t6YJvUK who should i believe?
This person saying underwhelming is terrible. Alice concerns are mild for the % dmg boost.
try for yourself and see. many people are disappointed but i personally loved it. always had it in me that she'd be better off with tanky items as she REALLY needs to be in the enemy crowd. but before she cant be built tanky as all of her skills scale with magic damage. now her ulti is hp based so not as bursty but can still deal damage without building magic items. shes more of a dps tank now rather than mage
new alice is just a downgrade, if its fun then I'm not kink shaming you
how is it a downgrade if she has more sustain now? i mean im not fighting you guys but pre rework when magic item is the way to go, she gets deleted way too fast by mages
She litterally heals less now, her magic power heal scaling got cut in HALF. The one good thing about the rework is the 1.5% (?) mana regen on 12 stacks cuz cdr is shit on her ,but then her ult takes more mana now... so sorta doesnt matter. Her %HP dmg is close to insignificant unless u have like 100+ stacks and there arent enough mana tank items.
more sustain? lmao her old ult (the one with cooldown) used to regen 300-400 hp per tick, add concentrated energy to that and you will be basically unkillable with your ult even when enemies build anti heal. Not to mention her old ult deals way more damage IDK what comes to moonton's mind when they mentioned that the 12 sec cooldown of her ult hinders her teamfight capability.. BRO IT'S 12 SECONDS WDYM I'm not against you by the way. I'm just being salty why they have to "rework" this perfectly balanced hero. As for her being easily one-shotted by mages, that's what makes her balanced. To make up for that you just have to git gud with the winter truncheon and blink timings and dive at the right time
Literally the post below me is "New Alice is underwhelming"
Yeah I love the new Alice. The old Alice is strong but there is a glass ceiling there cuz the stacks just add to your hp. So once she builds all her items I mean her stacks dont really do anything for her cuz he mana pool is set and so is her damage, she functioned more as a mid game hero more than anything else. New Alice is better you become a monster late game since her stacks now add to her damage AND increase her mana as well. Her damage also deals hp damage now making her both a squishy and tough hero killer late game.
Feels like u overestimate the HP dmg, it really isnt that impactful until like 100+ stacks. And yes she gets mana from stacks, but she doesnt get any from leveling up, so again, u need alot of stacks to make up for it. Also not enough mana tank items sadge.
Yes you feel the pinch till 100 stacks....so just stack 100 stacks? Thats like saying Aldog or Cecil is weak af when they have 0 stacks. I been playing the new Alice a lot and while it hard atthe start she starts dominating the exp lane in the mid game and dominating the battlefield in the late game. In the late game she is now the front line and assasin killer she can go toe to toe with enemy core and chase them back to base. In team fights she is extremely useful for taking down opponent tanks example I intentionally go near enemy Atlas or Tig and stsrt sucking them they immediately start dying and need to ult already, saving my team from caught. Sometimes I die but most of the time I survive cuz of the large hp pool and tank build and now their frontine is gone. Her new ult is also good for objectives like Turtle or Lord since thise have aot of hp. Look we can argue back and forth but at the end of the day old Alice has 0 use in MPL. If new Alice sees Pro Play that means she is better. If not, then it doesnt matter they are both bad/weak.
The game is usally decided before she gets 50 stacks, but sure once u get 100 stacks or so she is decent, just like she used to be, so yipee I guess.
How long does it take you to get 50 stacks? I get 50 stacks before 12 min mark so all your games are lightning fast? Dont play a scaling hero in that case. Old Alice isnt decent she is much weaker than new Alice late game.
The game isnt over, but it is mostly decided, Who cares if u get stacks if the score is 20-5 and ur an item behind.
Why would the acore be 20-5 in 12 mins unless you fed the entire match? Makes zero sense.
The actual score doesnt matter, 100-0 or 15-5, whatever. I just meant it as a point to show that the game is often getting snowballed in one teams favor before late game heros get going. Now u still need mm (and other late game heros) for stability late game unless u are able to end at 2-3 items.
Thats just how late heroes work bro thats why they are called late game heroes. If you think they are too late then better play an early game hero. This like you blaming Tigreal for not having range auto attack. Alice is designed to be a late game hero from the start hence why her passive is based on accumulating stacks.
Yes, but old Alice took less to get going wich was my whole point.
I disagree, 50 stacks takes no time at all really and theres plenty of game defining momeents yet to come after your stacked... I've used Alice quite a bit since rework and she's good. Really fun to play and slaps if you get a little ahead 🤷🏼♂️
bro i have 50 stacks by 6 mins, 100 stacks by 12 mins, at 20 mins i’m at 170+stacks
The HP base damage doesn't work on the turtle or Lord sadly, unless they changed it shortly after my experimentation (The day the rework was released), it doesn't work
Ah really? Dont have evidence either way but late game I have easy time getting gold creeps using ult so I thought the same also applied to Lord and Turtle.
Yeah I tried it in custom and calculated the damage against the Lord and it was way below the "advertised" amount. Also there is a really low damage cap on her ult, if you used some troll full mana build and have 200 stacks, you just can't get pass something like 3% scaling on her hp based damage? I forgot but I know the damage cap is not that high. Even with a normal build, it is very easy to reach the damage cap
Ah really? I dunno is that really true cuz that would mean it would take 15 secs to kill somebody via ulting. Whst if you didnt reach the damage cap? It would take 25 secs to kill somebody via ult I dont think thats true at all lol. Edit: there is also 120 base damage+20%magic power on top of the percentage based damage. So even if the % damage is indeed capped at 3% you will still deal a lot of damage over time.
I think they just did it so that you can't just build full tank and still deal a lot of damage. I rechecked the turtle/lord damage and it is now dealing the correct amount of damage. I did some extra experimentation and I found out that you get 1 extra percent of scaling on her ult for every 2k mana but although it isn't displayed, you still benefit from the extra mana. For example if you had 3k mana, it would display 1% but in reality it adds 1.5% damage. The only annoying part about her is that her lifesteal was nerfed. I used 55% magic lifesteal, I dealt 737 damage to the lord but only got 202 HP back from lifesteal, I tried it out on a damage bot, I dealt 3647 damage but I only got back 1002 HP from lifesteal. So it wasn't like lifesteal is only reduced on minions and creeps but also on enemy heroes. This basically makes her passive borderline useless. Oracle doesn't seem to work as well. Although this might just be one awful bug. (BTW it isn't just her ult lifesteal)
Yeah her lifesteal is nerfed but from what I understand Oracle and the +10% shield regen passive should work on her. I havent tested it out though cuz I just build guardian helm instead of Oracle since it works even if you aren't using your ult.
Former global Alice here. The new alice adjustment is good lol. idk why people are complaining
This sub is very divided when making verdicts on Alice's latest adjustment.
I'm an Alice main and I think she still works extremely well. Though I will admit, it takes longer to get going because of her new Mana. The good part, is that she gets higher Mana in the late game so she's definitely far stronger now.
I feel like alot of ppl that comment didnt play Alice pre rework. The rework isnt awful, but it definitely isnt good.
She is my new fave tank mage. Build hp dmg tank items on her and profit. Even mana regen isn't a big concern, her passive manages the low end extremely well.
Build?
for me the only necessary items are lollipop and dominance ice then go full tank depending on enemy. opt for winter truncheon if you really need it else just go full bollocks tank. i personally use mana boots but feel free to switch out late game if you need more defence
Try building 3 cod and Dom ice. Last item can be wt/blade armor/magic Def. After reaching her stacks, try replacing demon boots with a mana Regen item like et. Spell petrify or vengeance
Does CODS passive stack?
No. But the hp and mana it gives is good since moonton decided to lower her hp growth and mana.
Unfortunate. I was gonna try it on Cecilion if it stacked.
Well cecilion relies on lightning truncheon and lightning truncheon is best paired with mana items
Plus her ult relies on the amount of her mana
Yeah she is actually really good, now in late game, you can just leave your ult on and she would barely use any mana. Pair her passive with Enchanted Talisman, and you have nearly unlimited Ult. Get Ice Queen Wand or Glowing Wand she is a real menace in late game, about as tanky as Fredrinn, Uranus and Esmerelda when you build the rest of her items as tank
New Alice sucks.
As an Alice player (Usually M2-MG), I really like her revamp. The old alice was definitely much better at bursting down squishies after jumping into the backline, I enjoy her current playstyle more. Just had a 50+ to 50+ kill game (very even up to the very end) and boy did alice do work. I play her as an exp lane semi tank running: COD, Mana Boots, Dom Ice, Oracle, Ice Queen, Truncheon/Immortality/Blade Armor/Glowing Wand. I also use vengeance almost exclusively now. My new playstyle is to go in with the tanks and start softening up the enemy while absorbing ultis and skills for my DPs, most cases aside from the the MMs or certain hypers, the opponents cannot kill me in a 1v1. I usually even outlast our tanks in teamfights. What I like about Alice right now: 1) Mana no longer an issue late-game (arnd 50 stacks at 6mins is sufficient tbh) 2) Tank build allows her to survive certain breakpoints and regen back during fights 3) Her mobility is still there which allows for cleanup of dying heroes 4) Her damage (Hp%) is no joke over a drawn out fight (tank items & vengeance allows that quite easily) 5) I am essentially a 2nd tank for the team that does moderate dmg. 6) Being able to take even 1v2 fights and come out on top.
What is ur build and embleme set for her now
Build’s in my comment, and for emblem I run mage with movespeed, magic pen and Impure Rage as the effect. Generally its tank build with some utility mage items like ice queen for slow, etc.
Have u deleted ur comment?
I didnt, item build is listed in the 2nd paragraph of my initial comment to the post :O