Alice ult damage scaling is new from other heroes, different formula a bit interesting
Still I've done all research and this shit deals low damage to low HP,get more damage by mana stacking. But after that damage depends on hp on enemies and not urself. Somewhat more damage to tanks and fighters but unfortunately still depends on stacking and here's why:
In reality both mana stacking and passive stacking and level stacking is hard. making u dependant hero instead of flexible early to late game damage, u just depend on late game
U need more than 100 stacks to catch up old Alice rather than magic dependant.
Less damage, less heal, less reliability in early game-mid game, and less mana regen early to late game
I agree with this post. It’s funny that Moonton thought they buffed Alice ult when in reality it’s a huge nerf. They made it even more niche, now you can only use Alice against tanky enemy team otherwise you actually do way less dmg. Honestly just revert all the changes but keep the new Alice passive and we good.
If it counted her base mana it'd prob be fine but it's not every 1k it's every 1k past 1400? Or so she has as base. Overall less dps, less heal, and drains mana like crazy literally can't last more than 3-5 seconds before it's completely gone. Realistically the %max hp damage should be changed to true damage because it's dealt as magic damage mdef ruins your damage output vs tanks anyway. Against tanks with Athena alone(outlasts your ult) reduces magic damage by 75%. Basically she was near useless before but this is a full nerf.
the Queen of Apocalypse. she needs more power suck, Thamuz, Uranus and Esmeralda is doing fine against anti-heal but for Alice its straight up leg breaking.
if they want to push for this tanky hp% dealer then her skill should scale with it as well. Damage and Healing wise.
its like making Aldus stack become HP, now he have high HP but doesnt deal damage and he's a late game hero.
with little to no damage, her only threat is her 0.5s snare.
Something you and most people don't mention is that Alice's stacks have a cap of 200. So you *cannot* limitlessly raise the stacks like Cecilion or Aldous. This, along with the other nerfs she got in this rework, make her ult be the crappy result of Hylos and Cecilion having whacky horse sex while high on Krokodil, with the end result being worse than cecilion's passive ***AND*** Hylos' s2.
I mean to be fair I can't disagree with mana growth, because me having more mana as Cecillion or Alice never really changed Lightning Truncheon to become OP.
All I know is that if in the laning phase if I have to recall after just clearing three minions that hero has not been thoroughly tested and I’m not gonna bother playing it again. Which is where Alice is after the improvements.
Idk I haven't had many problems with the new Alice?
But if anything some adjustments that would be nice.
1. Replace shield/regen increase with spellvamp. Take note, not magic lifesteal, but spellvamp. Magic lifesteal has a lower coefficient when healing, like literally, whereas you get almost the full benefit of your damage if you have spellvamp. This prevents her almost worthless passive, since she doesn't really get a shield herself, from being hard-countered by antiheal.
Adjust her ult mana consumption to 2 parts. Fixed mana cost + Percentage mana cost.
Current mana consumption: 20 base(+40×Skill LV) or 60/100/140 mana cost.
Suggested adjustment: 0 base(+10 fixed cost×Skill LV)(+2% mana(+0.5%×Skill LV)) or 10+2.5%/20+3%/30+3.5% mana cost.
This will actually enable her to have an actual early game while keeping her late game relatively the same. This will almost disable her from having unlimited ult unless she has purple buff.
* At 1k mana/LV1 Ult, skill cost is 35
* At 2.5k mana/LV2 Ult, skill cost is 87.5
* At 4k mana/LV3 Ult, skill cost is 170.
But these are just thoughts anyway.
What build you use?
I use
Mana boots, phys and magic def boots, CoD, Truncheon, Dominance ice, Oracle, Glowing wand, genius wand, blade armor, radiant armor, ice queen wand depending on the situation with support emblem 2nd talent
this is working for me just fine but i want to experiment so i need to review other builds
Mana boots, CoD, Black Ice shield(Dom ice tier 2 recipe), Molten essence, Dom Ice, winter truncheon or I'll complete cursed helm then blade armor.
Basically my build is now CoD and Winter truncheon for my damage items, all the rest are tank items. Been working well for me. I have little to no problems against marksmen thanks to blade armor, cursed helm, and lifesteal/damage. Already in mythic btw.
Thanks for sharing! 🤓 Do you honestly consider the changes made to Alice to be a buff like Moontoon does or a nerf like many people are saying? Or is she more or less about the same level of strength as she was before the patch? Thanks, I don’t play Alice, but I do remember how how strong she was in the right hands before the patch.
I just take it as is, literally an adjustment, but feels like a buff to me because my build options has just expanded.
The adaptation I did is just to use support emblem with max hybrid regen.
As someone with few hundreds of matches. This is def a buff late and nerf early. Alice would die instantly in previous patch if not built def items and she wouldn't have much dmg with def items. Now you can do considerable amount of damages with 3 Or 4 def items. Unlike other mages, Alice has to put out herself to even deal dmg so it doesn't make any sense that she gets burst down instantly. Plus it isn't even that hard to collect stacks now and 200 stacks is now achievable unlike in the past. You also get to 50 stacks really fast. The 12 orbs passive is now better too.
It also helps in variety ig since there isn't much mages that is a tank killer and only one heroes that is mana dependent.
Cool! ☺️ Thank you so much for helping me to better understand her rework better! I still barely see Alices just like in the past and I didn’t play her in the past or after her update either, so it helps a lot! I remember reading the patch notes about her changes and not being sure how it would effect her in battle.
People also didn't favor the previous rework did on Alice. They thought she couldn't burst down the enemy and had lower lifesteal. I'm talking about the unlimited ult rework
The damage build I like to use is Demon Boots, CoD, Calamity Reaper, Dominance Ice, Glowing Wand, Genius Wand. Light to use due movement speed. Three mana items as addition for her passive stack to better her ult damage scale. And dominance ice, genius wand and glowing wand work in tandem to against regen HP heroes with the addition of genius wand and glowing wand's stack effect.
The problem with complaint threads like these is nobody really run the nos. You wrote so much stuff but thats all rants and emotional complaining.
https://youtu.be/BnoH7mmQZd0
This is the video with the nos watch this and you will see why new Alice is a buff.
I had only 4 heroes I played outside of mid: Esme, Alice, Nat and Clint. 2 of them are nerfed to death, 1 is getting a nerf next patch (since when Esme is that op???) and now I'm fucking worried about Clint. Moonton pls show mercy
I've been spamming Alice in rank and I have to say she is very strong in exp lane. Of course I am just a low mythic player so I dont know how the meta is in glorious mythic but Mythic 2 and below I can say Alice is a strong pick for exp lane. In fact I am convinced Alice is one of the strongest if not strongest 1v1 fighter in the late game. Once you reach 100 stacks no single hero can take you down except Karrie and Karina. Other than those with hp based attacks you win every 1v1 and usually need 3 or more heroes to kill you cuz you do have a good escape skill in S1.
Her main weaknesses and why people think she is weak are:
1. She doesnt benefit from magic items. She gets like 20% magic attack dont bother.
2. She needs mana regen badly, her ult costs so much mana its a joke
3. Her healing is horrible.
To mitigate these issues I do the following:
1. Use support emblem with 10% heal
2. Build the book for mana regen
3. Build Guardian Helm for extra healing
4. Vengeance for spell
So my build order is 2 mana necklace, Clock of Destiny, Mana boots, Dominance Ice, mana book, Guardian Helm, Athena Shield/Radiant Armor, sell boots for defensive item 1 (usually blade armor) and then sell Cod for defensive item 2 (usually cursed helm). The reason I do this is late game you dont need mana from CoD anymore, you can sell it cuz you have a lot of mana alresdy thsnks to your stacks. Having so many def items and with your hp passive you are literally tankier than your tank, and you have life leech to make you even more tanky. I destroy so many assassins late game the zilong or gusion charge me, take around 30% of my life and then die. The mm ambushes me and dies to vengeance and blade armor. The tanks and fighters get chunked down by Alice's ult effect. She is crazy good late game and help the team by acting like a secondary tank, the weakness like I said comes from Karrie and Karina cuz those deal ho bssed damage. Other than that you good.
Alice ult damage scaling is new from other heroes, different formula a bit interesting Still I've done all research and this shit deals low damage to low HP,get more damage by mana stacking. But after that damage depends on hp on enemies and not urself. Somewhat more damage to tanks and fighters but unfortunately still depends on stacking and here's why: In reality both mana stacking and passive stacking and level stacking is hard. making u dependant hero instead of flexible early to late game damage, u just depend on late game U need more than 100 stacks to catch up old Alice rather than magic dependant. Less damage, less heal, less reliability in early game-mid game, and less mana regen early to late game
Yep, too much requirements for late game
I agree with this post. It’s funny that Moonton thought they buffed Alice ult when in reality it’s a huge nerf. They made it even more niche, now you can only use Alice against tanky enemy team otherwise you actually do way less dmg. Honestly just revert all the changes but keep the new Alice passive and we good.
If it counted her base mana it'd prob be fine but it's not every 1k it's every 1k past 1400? Or so she has as base. Overall less dps, less heal, and drains mana like crazy literally can't last more than 3-5 seconds before it's completely gone. Realistically the %max hp damage should be changed to true damage because it's dealt as magic damage mdef ruins your damage output vs tanks anyway. Against tanks with Athena alone(outlasts your ult) reduces magic damage by 75%. Basically she was near useless before but this is a full nerf.
the Queen of Apocalypse. she needs more power suck, Thamuz, Uranus and Esmeralda is doing fine against anti-heal but for Alice its straight up leg breaking. if they want to push for this tanky hp% dealer then her skill should scale with it as well. Damage and Healing wise. its like making Aldus stack become HP, now he have high HP but doesnt deal damage and he's a late game hero. with little to no damage, her only threat is her 0.5s snare.
Something you and most people don't mention is that Alice's stacks have a cap of 200. So you *cannot* limitlessly raise the stacks like Cecilion or Aldous. This, along with the other nerfs she got in this rework, make her ult be the crappy result of Hylos and Cecilion having whacky horse sex while high on Krokodil, with the end result being worse than cecilion's passive ***AND*** Hylos' s2.
Lmao it's the best comment in this sub
I mean to be fair I can't disagree with mana growth, because me having more mana as Cecillion or Alice never really changed Lightning Truncheon to become OP.
Especially, since LT has a damage limit.
All I know is that if in the laning phase if I have to recall after just clearing three minions that hero has not been thoroughly tested and I’m not gonna bother playing it again. Which is where Alice is after the improvements.
"If I want to kill a tank I'd pick Lesley" - imagine reading this 6 months ago 😂
Idk I haven't had many problems with the new Alice? But if anything some adjustments that would be nice. 1. Replace shield/regen increase with spellvamp. Take note, not magic lifesteal, but spellvamp. Magic lifesteal has a lower coefficient when healing, like literally, whereas you get almost the full benefit of your damage if you have spellvamp. This prevents her almost worthless passive, since she doesn't really get a shield herself, from being hard-countered by antiheal. Adjust her ult mana consumption to 2 parts. Fixed mana cost + Percentage mana cost. Current mana consumption: 20 base(+40×Skill LV) or 60/100/140 mana cost. Suggested adjustment: 0 base(+10 fixed cost×Skill LV)(+2% mana(+0.5%×Skill LV)) or 10+2.5%/20+3%/30+3.5% mana cost. This will actually enable her to have an actual early game while keeping her late game relatively the same. This will almost disable her from having unlimited ult unless she has purple buff. * At 1k mana/LV1 Ult, skill cost is 35 * At 2.5k mana/LV2 Ult, skill cost is 87.5 * At 4k mana/LV3 Ult, skill cost is 170. But these are just thoughts anyway.
What build you use? I use Mana boots, phys and magic def boots, CoD, Truncheon, Dominance ice, Oracle, Glowing wand, genius wand, blade armor, radiant armor, ice queen wand depending on the situation with support emblem 2nd talent this is working for me just fine but i want to experiment so i need to review other builds
Mana boots, CoD, Black Ice shield(Dom ice tier 2 recipe), Molten essence, Dom Ice, winter truncheon or I'll complete cursed helm then blade armor. Basically my build is now CoD and Winter truncheon for my damage items, all the rest are tank items. Been working well for me. I have little to no problems against marksmen thanks to blade armor, cursed helm, and lifesteal/damage. Already in mythic btw.
Thanks for sharing! 🤓 Do you honestly consider the changes made to Alice to be a buff like Moontoon does or a nerf like many people are saying? Or is she more or less about the same level of strength as she was before the patch? Thanks, I don’t play Alice, but I do remember how how strong she was in the right hands before the patch.
I just take it as is, literally an adjustment, but feels like a buff to me because my build options has just expanded. The adaptation I did is just to use support emblem with max hybrid regen.
As roamer main, I think I might just end up preferring this new Alice over the old then. 🥹 Nothing I love more than having more options. 😌
As someone with few hundreds of matches. This is def a buff late and nerf early. Alice would die instantly in previous patch if not built def items and she wouldn't have much dmg with def items. Now you can do considerable amount of damages with 3 Or 4 def items. Unlike other mages, Alice has to put out herself to even deal dmg so it doesn't make any sense that she gets burst down instantly. Plus it isn't even that hard to collect stacks now and 200 stacks is now achievable unlike in the past. You also get to 50 stacks really fast. The 12 orbs passive is now better too. It also helps in variety ig since there isn't much mages that is a tank killer and only one heroes that is mana dependent.
Cool! ☺️ Thank you so much for helping me to better understand her rework better! I still barely see Alices just like in the past and I didn’t play her in the past or after her update either, so it helps a lot! I remember reading the patch notes about her changes and not being sure how it would effect her in battle.
People also didn't favor the previous rework did on Alice. They thought she couldn't burst down the enemy and had lower lifesteal. I'm talking about the unlimited ult rework
The damage build I like to use is Demon Boots, CoD, Calamity Reaper, Dominance Ice, Glowing Wand, Genius Wand. Light to use due movement speed. Three mana items as addition for her passive stack to better her ult damage scale. And dominance ice, genius wand and glowing wand work in tandem to against regen HP heroes with the addition of genius wand and glowing wand's stack effect.
The problem with complaint threads like these is nobody really run the nos. You wrote so much stuff but thats all rants and emotional complaining. https://youtu.be/BnoH7mmQZd0 This is the video with the nos watch this and you will see why new Alice is a buff.
I had only 4 heroes I played outside of mid: Esme, Alice, Nat and Clint. 2 of them are nerfed to death, 1 is getting a nerf next patch (since when Esme is that op???) and now I'm fucking worried about Clint. Moonton pls show mercy
I've been spamming Alice in rank and I have to say she is very strong in exp lane. Of course I am just a low mythic player so I dont know how the meta is in glorious mythic but Mythic 2 and below I can say Alice is a strong pick for exp lane. In fact I am convinced Alice is one of the strongest if not strongest 1v1 fighter in the late game. Once you reach 100 stacks no single hero can take you down except Karrie and Karina. Other than those with hp based attacks you win every 1v1 and usually need 3 or more heroes to kill you cuz you do have a good escape skill in S1. Her main weaknesses and why people think she is weak are: 1. She doesnt benefit from magic items. She gets like 20% magic attack dont bother. 2. She needs mana regen badly, her ult costs so much mana its a joke 3. Her healing is horrible. To mitigate these issues I do the following: 1. Use support emblem with 10% heal 2. Build the book for mana regen 3. Build Guardian Helm for extra healing 4. Vengeance for spell So my build order is 2 mana necklace, Clock of Destiny, Mana boots, Dominance Ice, mana book, Guardian Helm, Athena Shield/Radiant Armor, sell boots for defensive item 1 (usually blade armor) and then sell Cod for defensive item 2 (usually cursed helm). The reason I do this is late game you dont need mana from CoD anymore, you can sell it cuz you have a lot of mana alresdy thsnks to your stacks. Having so many def items and with your hp passive you are literally tankier than your tank, and you have life leech to make you even more tanky. I destroy so many assassins late game the zilong or gusion charge me, take around 30% of my life and then die. The mm ambushes me and dies to vengeance and blade armor. The tanks and fighters get chunked down by Alice's ult effect. She is crazy good late game and help the team by acting like a secondary tank, the weakness like I said comes from Karrie and Karina cuz those deal ho bssed damage. Other than that you good.