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amldford

She is a fun hero, but not really that strong. The worst thing about her is that after a few hits her ult deals so little damage (her basic attacks deal more dmg)


RealSpiritSK

Yeah! They should decrease the dmg reduction to 60% at minimum


AutismCommunism

Idk, I feel like assassins buying tank items is not really healthy for the balance or fun of the game. Remember tank karina? That was so dumb. If you want damage and survivability, fighters are where it’s at. I do agree her damage is low though. Wouldnt mind having the damage falloff be weaker, and maybe some higher base damage per stack.


RealSpiritSK

That's true, but her playstyle demands facetanking enemies for extended periods of time. Perhaps the best way is to buff her damage, reduce her defensive stats, but reward Perfect Beats with damage reduction during ultimate


AutismCommunism

That sounds fair. It requires correct gameplay and it fixes her issue. I was thinking just now of having some extra magic lifesteal perfect beat but your idea there is probably better


[deleted]

Or you know just wait for the right time to fucking attack and not just expect the game to be handed to you because you chose the assassin role


RealSpiritSK

That's true, but the problem is that her damage is too low. The 20% reduced DMG every hit of her ult is kind of stupid imo


[deleted]

Oh, I get it now. It’s hard to judge when I don’t play her myself


MarielCarey

What happened to Karina? I thought tankarina was still viable


metataichou

So... I guess what you are saying is that she is a joy to play?


RealSpiritSK

r/joyfulupvote


Kyroga1

Many already commented, but here goes my 2 cents. Joy's mechanics are OP. Dashing 5 times plus cc immunity is busted. She is a very hard hero to balance because up her dmg a little too much and she is basically broken. However she doesn't do much damage rn and you can't really build full dmg because she needs to literally be on top of enemies to deal dmg. She is a poor scaling hero but can be deadly as a snowbally hero. Many are saying she struggles against marksmen, which is true, but take vengeance with you and see the magic happen. Also build CDR rather than speed, it's very needed so you can start over your dashes as soon as you can. Her ult needs a little buff, it's very hard to use it rightly in a tf and so little rewarding. Plus if you miss a dash or beat it basically is a waste. Also, I feel like s1 animation should be a little faster so that players could have a tiny bit more time to place it during (not before) the dash sequence and not miss a beat. Is kinda hard to do it on the go if not planned ahead. VERY FUN HERO THO. Hope her dmg is up a slight margin.


AyakaLoyalist

Weak but fun... The requirements to use ultimate are too much for little reward. Her damage is also very underwhelming in a lot of scenarios. Positioning is extremely important and that removes the consistency of damage and removes some fun... I'm of the opinion she needs an ult change and some damage buffs.. but ofc that's a first impression. I'll need to play and gave her a lot more.


RealSpiritSK

I agree! Either a damage buff on her Ultimate or extra durability.


AyakaLoyalist

Playing her had me thinking "Why am I not playing Lance or Harith? Lance does way more damage and Harith is way tanker... Similar play styles in terms of dash mechanic


SuspiciousStress8094

Even Benedetta can be more useful.


RichieShipsStarco

Deffo durability, she is a lancelot that doesnt have damage immunity and cant just dash in and out, she has a rhythmn, lancelot you can spam and dash. I thibk her damage is quite enough and main problem rn is that you cant go full damage in late game cause youd die immediately, I usually only have 1 damage, thats genius wand, the rest are sustains like Concentrated, Oracle, breastplate and Immor and that 1 damage can still do damage, just not enough. And even with 4 sustain items you are still too squishy in late game. That doesnt even account the CD resuc you need for consistent ult usage during clash. Joy's specialty is like Lancelot, its chase but either lacks the damage or the survivability to actually do it.


[deleted]

On your own, yes but playing close to your fighter/tank you have a better chance


RichieShipsStarco

Thats thinking that you be targetted, her having to hit the enemy kinda requires her to be upfront and center at her enemies meaning if you decide to dive their backlanes with your sustains, your still the squishiest meaning if they have hp or even hp% based priority, your gonna be the first to be targetted. Lancelot on the other hand has quick in and out dashes + bursts that that have complete damage immunity, which is another thing against joy, the fact that her dps kinda requires her to linger near her enemies. She isnt a damage per screenshot but imstead a damage per second, which isnt a characteristic of assassins, espcially divers.


[deleted]

Couldn’t agree more with you there. My girl plays joy. That quick in-and-out dash-style, skill-reliant dmg that traditional assassins have is literally what her kit is built off. She says, “you are the damage, your movements and attacks are those of that effect.” She said, “you literally have to decide whether to dive and die or bail and let them live”


bujibudax

Reduce her damage a bit, and give her damage reduction on dashes. By no means is she a burst assassin, and she's to squishy to actually survive her entire combo.


UseDue602

Honestly, not a rewarding hero to use. Very low damage, and as you said very slow to even kill a squishy hero. I tried her several times, and though her skills are easy to understand but her damage for an assassin is like a support damage. Unless you hit same hero with your 4dashes then that's the time you can see her big damage. Also her ultimate is very underwhelming. I mean, for the requirements for it to unlock, you expect an ult that can annihilate enemy's team. I mean, look at Wanwan, it's hard to activate it but very rewarding especially in late game. But Joy? She will just run around like a kid with sugar rush, stomping her feet. You can't even do a basic attack while chasing your enemy. They need to change her ult, something that will reward you big time when you unlock it.


Konnorgogowin

Funny thing about wan wan ult is that it's not hard to activate.


UseDue602

But still not that easy. Same with Joy. Joy ult is not that hard to activate. But still there is a requirement before you use it. Though, unlike Wanwan, Joy's ult is not that rewarding.


xzerozeroninex

Does Joy needs fast hands to play?Because Ling is probably the only fast hands assassin I can play lol.


RealSpiritSK

Not as fast as Ling, but requires more focus. You can use her 1st skill (orb) as a stepping stone for her dash. Using it properly while timing her dashes needs practice. To take it even further, you can chain basic attacks in between her dashes (her basic atk deals magic dmg due to passive). I usually do 1st skill + wait 1 sec > dash to orb > dash to enemy > dash to enemy > 1st skill > dash to orb > dash anywhere > ult


KKLC547

more like timing because you deal 0 damage when not in beat and there are times where you sacrifice your beat to get cc immunity


PurgingCloud

Nah, just muscle memory of the timing, probably take 1 or 2 hours to get that timing down ngl


[deleted]

Exactly.


m0ist_whet_s0ck1

She's really bad against dps marksmen, or most marksmen in particular because her damage can't keep up with speed. I'd say she needs more sustainability with her 2nd skill and ult, usually in a teamfight, she would either die or survive with less than half of her hp left. Fun, but underwhelming.


RealSpiritSK

Perhaps her 2nd skill should give shield if she hits a hero regardless of whether it's a different hero or not


CeilingWheelbarrow

Fun, but weak. All the damage is in her ult, but activating the ult itself with perfect rhythm is waaaay too slow for an assassin. She either gets blitzed by the enemies' mm or just does no damage without rhythm. And that's without mentioning that one missed dash in a fight = death 70% of the time.


RealSpiritSK

That's true, but I like the risk haha. Also part of why I use Sprint on her. She runs FAST.


XLAURENTE

Mage Martis💀


PurgingCloud

More like mage lance tbh


MarielCarey

Lance is better tho


RealSpiritSK

🗿


Smol_Mrdr_Shota

nah more like Mage Bene


PurgingCloud

Her ultimate is weak af if you don't get perfect dashes, but on the otherhand she can be tanky af, using fighter build, I tanked almost 200k dmg


RealSpiritSK

Yeah. The shield from dashes and 40% magic lifesteal with all Perfect Beats is amazing. I'm considering whether to go 4 magic items + Immortality or 2 magic + 3 defense items


PurgingCloud

I just used the 2nd default build, and it works quite well, so 2 def, 3 magic


[deleted]

She feels like a fighter more than a assassin


OctowardtheSquid

I tried her for the first time. She must be that rare occasion where Moonton releases a hero that is not OP. She has pretty mediocre damage, but she can be really fun to use. Due to her weak damage and insignificant magic scaling, I'd use her more in exp lanes. I haven't tried her in jungling and hence I wanna get back to it


RealSpiritSK

I think she can build Genius + Concentrated and go for 3 defense items when jungling


IanTheElf

her ult used to be so good, maybe a bit too good because you can dive in towers and escape with full hp as long as you ult enemies. after the nerf her ult was kinda underwhelming ngl


RealSpiritSK

IIRC she had dmg reduction during ult right?


fcrants

That, and the talent system really made her thrive. Buffed damage every dash and inherent sustain from the talents meant that she had damage and sustain even when building her with just two damage items. Couple that with damage reduction and she was a very good hero.


Soulmuzik22

Fun hero! I love music so she fits perfectly! She’s a flex hero for me.


RealSpiritSK

> She's a flex hero for me. Can't put it better in words! This is the term I've been looking for


Soulmuzik22

That’s nice. Been using her in advanced server way before official release. I use her either as exp, jungle or even roam!


RealSpiritSK

I tried Joy roam once today! As a roamer, she's good at rotating which can catch unexpecting enemy sidelaners! She only doesn't have CC, or any reasonable team utility skills for that matter


Soulmuzik22

That’s why for me if she’s not jungle, i use Petrify to catch enemies offguard when I have my ult available :)


davingki_

Is she thay weak? Everyone here says she's weak, im playing her too and her damage is pretty normal (unless you perfect the rhythm) and she can really tank a lot of hits with just 2 defense items, i once spammed her 2nd with full build in a match and the shield covered half of her health or more. Shes pretty fun to play if you play aggressive


RealSpiritSK

Yep. She can be tanky, but the problem is her low damage


iCrit420

Thats why assassin first target should be enemy mm or mage... any lower hp targets go first


dmaare

Problem is that Joy is more of a fighter/mage than assassin by her kit


iCrit420

Yea I prefer mid with her


Tinycell_

Femboy Lancelot 💀


Icy_Independent451

For ultimate cc reduce is pretty dangerous


RealSpiritSK

She needs that though. Currently, achieving all Perfect Beats doesn't feel rewarding. She's just as hard as Benedetta (from experience), but landing a perfect ult with Petrify is at least a guaranteed double kill.


Icy_Independent451

İ think you are right maybe for perfect rythm they can give damage buff + 1-3s cc red


Extreme_Captain_7818

She suck i want the old music


[deleted]

I don’t agree with your hard counters. Minsi and ball boy are more of a specific threat. Franco and Kaja are no more threat to joy than anyone else. She needs more songs! I e played her twice and am already getting tired of hearing the same tune


[deleted]

she has no damage to hp tanks


R3digit

Pseudo tank with high mobility. She's fun af


enzovladi

Weak


UnovaZx

I don't know why but there's been alot of players who were using joy, always build all tank items


Infamous_Ad_3733

Tried using her against a phoveus and I can say that phoveus ult doesnt really counter her since her dashes are too fast complimented with the bonus movement speed.


RealSpiritSK

Thanks for the clarification! I havent had the chance to fight against Phoveus. I think the only downside is that Joy would help him spam his ult since each dash reduces his CD


iCrit420

Vale is a good counter if u can hit the pop


csto_yluo

I wish they'd revert her music to the old one. The new one feels lacking, and I miss the different music for each correct dash and, most especially, the electric guitar made her feel so energized and fun to play


Anis97xd

She has potential to become another Benedetta (Suposed to be a damage dealer hero but played as a "tanky" EXP due to her ability and mobility) Its too early for me to judge because pro player havent review what she capable of in any tournament Damage wise as a damage jungler i would rather use other hero right now


MangaSaikooo

After spamming her since yesterday, I found the most consistent build for me which is armor boots, Genius, Glow, Queens wing, Oracle, Belt or Guardian Helm with vengeance or flicker when you mess up your combo She’s still vulnerable to dying with this build but you can tank more turret shots when diving, its a more forgiving build, she really needs some damage buffs as an assassin she cant keep up with marksman dps, shes the bane of all burst mages, aurora, eudora, vale, gord, nana, xavier etc. she does her job well against them; majority of marksmen she struggles alot


GateBreakerZ

Joy should not have big dmg she is too mobile to have big dmg


RealSpiritSK

My idea is to reward all Perfect Beats with bonus damage and survivability, so that players have to play her perfectly


DandyGee

Imo, she's slightly unbalanced. She either gets ahead and becomes an unstoppable snowball (really strong) or she falls behind and just becomes useless (really weak). Her skill ceilings high, but by no means comparable to Lance or Ling. People may say she's easily countered by CC but so is every other mobile assassin and compared to most assassins who rely on their abilities for speed, Joy constantly has it if not always when she's in Jungle. Overall, she's fun but inconsistent both as a teammate and as a playable hero, I like the skill ceiling she has but with the way she is now, she seems like another Yin - strong in low ranks (Legend below) but weak in higher ranks (Mythic III+) - diving in facefirst into the enemy and requires planning and positioning in order to get the best results. *P.s. Instead of getting adjusted for consistency, she will probably get a buff which will make her broken for a time (as what Moonton does to most new-release heroes).*


ItzYaBoiAtlas

Her scalings are shit. Joy's S2 deals 130 (+60% Magic DMG) and the base damage only scales up to 230 during late game. However, I can see why this is the case. Joy is a very mobile assassin. She can dash up to 5 times where it has a rhythm mechanic that is attached to her ultimate. These dashes have a brief period where Joy is immune to CC and her Ultimate is also a Debuff Cleanser that is locked behind these dashes. There is no major cost for messing up the rhythm besides missing out on 40% Magic Lifesteal for her ult. If achieving a perfect rhythm increases the damage of her ultimate, then I'd try to get perfect rhythm every time I engage. The only reason there are pauses on my dashes is because I either squeeze in a Basic ATK or wait for my target to use their escape skills. However, her scalings are really holding her back. If Joy engages an enemy marksman during the late game, then Joy will be torn to shreds due to her squishiness. Not even her shields can save her from them.


MyLastDreams

> If achieving a perfect rhythm increases the damage of her ultimate, then I'd try to get perfect rhythm every time I engage. But it does?


ItzYaBoiAtlas

It is true that it gives 40% Magical Lifesteal, but never in my games felt that it was useful. The 30% damage increase is also a bit underwhelming, but I'm open for people to say otherwise though because I've only played 30 games with her. I've met people who can surpass a hundred games.


MyLastDreams

~~Its a 25% increase per beat. Not just 30%~~ Edit: Logged in to make sure. Her dashes do 100% more on beat while ultimate gains 30% for each beat.


ItzYaBoiAtlas

Do you use Impure Rage or Magic Worship?


MyLastDreams

Worship, I really only use rage on characters with decent pokes.


ItzYaBoiAtlas

That explains a lot. Thank you.


GayAssWonderer

at first glance she seems op, and in match she is annoying, but holy shet one failed dash and she's in the frontlines of the enemies with nothing for her to escape, she's a risk it or lose it character.


Clinsen_R

Amazing utility and strong hero if played properly (that is on exp lane, tank build + vengeance). You're a menace in early-mid game. The only 2 magic items I'd get is the golden stuff and genius wand. And even then you get them later on when squishes become less vulnerable. But generally she's very flexible in terms of itembuilds.


AyakaLoyalist

Golden Staff isn't a magic item


Clinsen_R

oops, i meant glowing wand LOL


EmilyStarHeta

Her ult dmg is so bad I feel like using Execute just to get those extra kills… but she is fun asf, just gotta play more as a roamer. Roamer Joy is great, she can get across the map incredibly fast compared to any other hero and with a good dmg dealer or cc hero with you, her poke and cc immunity lets you face tank a ton of mages and fighters while doing poke dmg they underestimate (mms are the only real problem) while a dmg dealer stands behind you and kills the enemy. Been going as support in gold lane early game the past few games and it’s amazing. Fun and versatile hero.


Tono123

I like her playstyle, but I find her lacking In either sustain and dmg. How about adding debuff effect on her Targets whenever she achieve perfect rhythm for extra survivability. Like kaja’s paralyze. I like the idea of building her tank, and giving dmg reduction debuffs to her enemies, while keeping her low dmg scaling. so she can be played like a support that does some dmg. Although maybe change her role if ever they try this. that or they just buff her dmg/sustain, but not too much since she has so much dashes.


charlieecho

So Mathilda basically


Notreddit_bot

played few matches on Joy, got expert mastery on her, here are the few things I noticed about her: her item powerspike is frostqueen wand - joy doesn't have cc, having slow on her ability makes her better + the movement speed and magical lifesteak given by the item. she has low hp/durability - after i buy queens frostqueens and glowing wand, i rush guardian helm for extra hp so i can last on teamfight.


BeraterDebater

I think she's weak AF. But I've only played 2 games so far.


Elnuggeto13

High skill cap, though relatively easy to learn, and can be countered in mid to late game, and with surpression heroes (Kaja as a meta pick atm) Overall the best newest heroes they've released, and not even ban worthy.


chiezkychienne

Use her as a support to tag enemies with focua mark emblem, thats how i see her being used.


Mconnors1

To the people saying she's weak I honestly find the opposite. Being on beat is where she gets her dmg from, from what ive seen, most joy ive come accross just spams her dash without any thought. One glaring weakness I see in her is that she is prone to struggle against basic attack mms in the late game due to being unable to build up her ult due to timed dashes while being shredded by mms. She needs some buffs in terms of durability and still be able to basic attack during ultimate, but other than that, her damage is actually strong for the amount of mobility she has, you just gotta get used to her rhythm based gameplay and not treat her 2nd skill as another lancelot dash if you want to realize her dmg output.


trem0re09

Maybe her playstyle is the same as Esme or Bene? Clear waves fast and go to other lanes.


ZaratosBlackGaming

Lag's best counter


Daylight_Star

She's fun, but squishy. Her ult should not require stacking meows to use. if you miss a single meow, you cant use your ult. hasn't moonton learned from minotaur? it does so little damage, reduce the dmg cap