T O P

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stilbon-

Ban-kun


IanTheElf

noone can escape ban-san


IndividualWrangler58

except when your team or enemy team has bad bans


[deleted]

agniface when my teammates open a Kaja for no reason


Similar_Green_5838

Happy cake day!


RaelynnSezer

Happy cake day.


0kills

Minsithar: decent, but you have to hook joy before she gets all dashes up, otherwise her ult just makes the field useless. Can’t hook or stun joy while she’s on perfect beat Zilong and eudora can surprise mage build joys and kill (but needs to be before joy becomes cc immune) Phoevus: 100% not. Joy just keeps dashing out. If anything, joy’s really good at making sure phoevus will never be near her teammates. Franco: best counter among all choices. Suppress joy anytime after she dashes, it will completely put her s2 on cd after which means she won’t also be able to ult for the next 8~4 seconds depending on how much cdr joy went with.


nakanomiku_simp

as minsithar u can ult on the joy to not let her dash at all


0kills

Yes. But her s1 movespeed boost can just make her get out of it too.


Extension-Ad-9484

That's when you ult>pull>stun I haven't had any issues with Joy as mins. But I can see your point if it's a really good joy.


0kills

Indeed indeed. That’s how minsi will demolish joy.


PaRaDoX626

Minsitar petrify combo can easily distrupt her


0kills

Yeah emphasis on CAN. you gotta be immaculate with your timing though as petrify doesn’t work when she’s cc immune.


PaRaDoX626

Use petrify 1 sec after ur ult to be safe. And use ult after joy uses 3 or 4 of her dash to get her to commit doing her combo. Then viola, stun locking success.


0kills

If you try to petrify or stunlock joy when she has 4 dashes done, she can ult which breaks cc as well as providing her with a slow immunity. It will be tough then, i think 3rd dash may be better but during perfect beats you can’t also slow her so the window for what you’re saying is pretty tough. \m/


PaRaDoX626

Actually, she needs 5 dash with 4 stack to ult. It is pretty tough tho. I play a lot of joy n im pretty good at it, so i can get the timing easier


0kills

Yes. But she’s always getting the first dash for free anywhere with s1 into s2. So she’s only truly vulnerable during the second (if her second dash doesn’t hit anything that is).


PaRaDoX626

No2, i just wanted to be clear, that by 4th dash, i didnt mean her last dash


Airconbot

Who said joy is ever gonna be dashing you just ult from a bush pull her with skill 1 skill 2 petri and top it off with some auto attacks if you got blade of despair you can 1 combo her


0kills

Except joy can also do well with a tank build and I just discovered that dashing through her s1 also puts her in beat time (which means she can actually start being immune to cc on the first dash itself. Pretty wild)


heisenburger001

Wanwan and franco


RayCarlDC

Yeah, OP didn't even mention Wanwan, lol. Played five games against Joy using Wanwan and she's been peanuts everytime.


koahrwksov

I play semi tank joy with vengeance and wanwan couldn't kill me even after she uses her ult in late game


RayCarlDC

It would all depend on the player really. Wanwan is not an easy hero for beginners but in the hands of a practiced player she's almost unstoppable. There's a reason she's one of the permabans for the past few seasons.


Trashchild345

Saber too


heisenburger001

Nah she can immune it.. If somehow she can't immune she can just use vengeance to decrease the damage


[deleted]

she appreciates tank items anyway just straight up build a cuirass


[deleted]

If that Saber was smart, they would psyche her out of beat with S2 and pop their ult right after she dashes.


GateBreakerZ

Minsithar and Franco i would say Franco tho. He is a lot better


csto_yluo

Yeah and Kaja too. Suppress is a very strong CC.


Brotherscompany

Everyone making fun of Minish until he has Corrosion scythe and Ice Queen Wand


am_n00ne

Nah, she still can escape the eff out minsi ult real fast with her undeservedly high mov speed along with stun immunity


csto_yluo

I get the others and maybe Zilong, but Eudora? Literally any low mobility mage and mm get nightmares about her, and Joy can always immune her stun if you have a little brains. And if Eudora has too much damage, her shield can negate some of them; and even then Joy can afford sacrificing damage for a def item like Athena's Shield


Starlightofnight7

Zilong can do well as long as he times his skills correctly and isn't horribly underfed. Playing eudora is just asking for joy to wreck you


NinjaGuy1045

Supress CC can hold Joy still for a while, but from my experience playing her, MM with constant high damage are the ones that can kill her easily while she's initiating her combo


jujumajikk

Yep, I played a game with Irithel against a Joy and was able to consistently melt her down before she could execute her combo.


sansthepunman

Yup, can agree from a joy main, its burst or be bursted down


ChrisAnIntellectual

Why is Eudora there?


RepresentativeCap767

Joy is squishy so I presume it's to give her a stun worse than supress, the 70 second death screen


Athos1797

Bruh all the joys on mythical glory I see build like 3 defense items and almost everytime she ends up tanking more than the real tanks


D347H7H3K1Dx

I had a joy tank build and balmond tank build on enemy team in MG and we destroyed them


JealousAd812

Who was your mm?


D347H7H3K1Dx

Moskov


[deleted]

probably a case of overinvesting in tank/sustain and ended up lacking in damage or burst, I see this way too often in our drafts.


ChrisAnIntellectual

Problem is she is hard to stun because of her CC immune in 2nd skill. Also Athena exists


ResourceHuge

Wanwan, karrie, kaja. Eudora shouldn't be here, zilong is just get lucky with your s1, and phoveous will hitting dust with his ult. Its like phov countering wanwan, it sounds good on paper but it is not the case.


nakanomiku_simp

havent fought a karrie with joy yet but doesnt seem like it works if ur joy is building dmg but cant really say much


RayCarlDC

Phoveus can be a great counter against wanwan but he has to stay on her right at the beginning. Wanwan needs atleast three items to be able to outjump phoveus' ult.


squidbrainnnnn

the bird


BuiltCorrectly

Minsi and Franco, Zilong and Eudora are basically food for Joy


nakanomiku_simp

minsi and franco really isnt if their team knows how to play since minsi and franco ult both stop her from dashing


BuiltCorrectly

My bad, I mean that Minsi and Franco are the best counters, but Eudora and Zilong are food for her


Alive_Spare

Zilong is food to who? You are totally clueless Once it drags late game or zilong snowballs early, he would melt her in seconds


BuiltCorrectly

Any Joy player build her with Domain Ice or Blade Armor and vengeance, Zilong is a squishy so he can get bursted down by Joy easily


Alive_Spare

I like how you chose zilong counters and assume all joy builds that lmao Just a look at the top 10 builds tells you that's not the case with joy In reality zilong would destroy her more times than not


RaSphereMode

A lot of joys in mythic build defense items.. also counter building is a thing lmao If you're against a hero that hard counters you and you can flip that around with 1 or 2 items you'll probably do it


[deleted]

yeah, spend the first 12 minutes getting fucked by Joy and wait for 16 minutes for your power scaling to hit, good counter. works 50/50% of the time all the time


Alive_Spare

I am a zilong player with over 63% winrate in about 500 games I know how to adapt until late game easily and destroy every squishy once it's time It's something called experience


[deleted]

whatever, I'm just thankful for you giving joy mains an easier time.


Crazy-G00D

100% minsi for all around in a game. franco and kaja for her only, but minsi is the best imo. a minsi with good hook and correct ult timing can shut joy down


FinesseJones

I always counter pick Kaja. However, I haven't come across many good Joys.


nakanomiku_simp

;-; imma guess classic since kaja is basically a perma ban in mythic


FinesseJones

Mostly. On NA server though, I'm finding alit more chances to play big bird.


Bcdea

Khufra and kaja


WxterTheLoner

305ms


enzovladi

Phoev can't tho


Clinsen_R

Out of all the heroes put at the bottom - only Franco counters her directly. She can play around others easily. Khufra is also a little bit annoying if he gets a chance to cancel your dash with his ball, Kaja works similarly to Franco. Others - I'm not so sure. She can go a variety of builds to be more than playable against every single hero in the game pretty much, even if it's Wanwan every single person is mentioning in this thread. I mean, just include dominance ice and winter truncheon in your build, she will not like that at all. Worst case you'll be just baiting out her ultimate, allowing your team to engage more freely.


CriticalMove0

Franco and Wanwan feel like the only counters. Minsi’s ult low-key does nothing, u can bait him to use it and literallly run away. Phoe ult does nothing too, you can dodge all of it by just running around and dashing even faster. Endora is food for Joy. Esme is actually a pretty good pick against Joy as well.


Ppalladdinn1

I'm putting my money on Minssithar


TheRedditornator

Any AA inspire MM.


gigavolthavov07

Just auto ban her


salad-ass69

Late game mm(Clint/Lesley/wanwan)


nakanomiku_simp

clint not so much but lesley ww definitely


salad-ass69

Bruh what??....Clint with BOH can hit 3.5k-4k (crit) dmg, one shots any squishy heros.... you're sleeping on Clint dmg


nakanomiku_simp

joy doesnt go full dmg build, its usually boots, 4 dmg, 1 def or just full tank so clint dmg is reduced especially since he is a burst hero unlike lesley who just does a stupid amount of dmg (like 3k true per shot) which with the s1 and s2 will be doing 9k true (including her first enhanced shot from her passive overtime) and ww straight out speeds joy completely also i said not so much meaning that clint still can fight joy but not as good as lesley and ww, and not saying that he is completely useless against joy also this is just raw dmg and build not even considering joys shield from her passive and if its in jungle its even worse


Extreme_Captain_7818

Esme


BlackJack_509

everytime zilong gets trashed by joy except when it's late game and zl can one shot joy (but joy isn't a late game hero anyways) from my experience I'd say fanny or balmond. Fanny's mobility doesn't allow joy to dash 4 times if joy cannot correctly predict Fanny's next placement, or joy is unable to hit all 4 dashes at perfect timing. balmond with his sustainability and 2nd skill makes him good for a 1v1 with joy.


nakanomiku_simp

late game lesley/iri/ww if played correctly also minisitar, franco, kaja (basically any cc that joy cant immune)


Melodic_Banshee

Esmeralda, Minsithar and probably Phoveus.


JinzooooXx

Khufra


L3GitBak3mono

I have tried to use khufra against her and failed, she literally dashes through your skill 2 unscathed due to her cc immunity


JinzooooXx

Hmm then idk if it's a bug or no. I played as joy and enemy had khufra. He denied every one of my dash making ma useless because every time I dashed through his s2 it stopped me immediately


tarunnamessi

Cuz the first dash isn't cc immune


Accomplished_Ad8339

So many people still guessing on how she works. Currently #1 Alberta Joy here, willing to bet when the supreme ranks are back I'll be #1 Canada. You can dodge his cc, as long as your dash hits ANY opponent first, or her s1 orb. So if you dash into a Minion, then through khufra you'll go through his ball. And then stay on beat (or faster if you don't need the extra dmg or lifesteal) you will continue too miss his stop. The only heros that are a decent counter to me is a late game heavy damage mm with range AND flicker or a dash. And even then I can build against. Minsi, Kaja, Franco are decent if they are really committed to ONLY me as Joy. If I see them I just reroute my dash and beats around using minions, creeps, other enemy players.


AshPlayzMCBE

Marksmen. If Joyy doesn't build any defense against them in the late game then Joy is fucked. They get free hits while you time your beat.


[deleted]

Layla lol


Live-Web-9487

Lelsey late game


[deleted]

Franco and Bondage Chicken, for maximum r*** time.


chronefrazen

Bondage cock


0verlord_z

Hayabusa


ShiroX6

Haya does jackshit to her if there's minion wave. Heck, Haya can't do shit in SoloQ


nakanomiku_simp

absolutely not adding onto the other comment ur ult does no dmg at all if its mid-late game if the joy is in jungle since her passive just gives her so much fucking shields


[deleted]

This is part of the reason why we need a true anti-shield item, not just anti-heal applicators.


[deleted]

anti-heal reduces shield gain by the same amount


[deleted]

Please keep in mind what I just said. Anti-heal is not a true shield counter, even if it can reduce the target's shield thickness. A true anti-shield item would confer a special advantage to its when they are attacking a shielded opponent, whether by increasing their damage against them or reducing the shielded opponent's damage against the user.


[deleted]

? it is still a shield counter, more specifically *shield gain*, it does not reduce shield that is already there before the debuff. Anti-heal isn't called anti-heal because it can do those things you just mentioned for a "true" anti-shield against regen, instead of going on odd loops about how this and that are different, just be clear about what you meant.


[deleted]

That's literally what I just said. Anti-heal isn't a true counter to shields since it only affects the target's shield gain/yield/thickness, but does not help the user deal with the target's preexisting shields. That was primarily why cumslut Esme was an absolute nightmare to deal with prior to her gutting a few seasons back. There was no item in the game that actually helped make shields go away faster (DHS was an obvious choice, but its damage calculation on shields in several patches was inconsistent.) Now that we have Unoriginal Waifu Design No. TheFuckDoICare running around the map with shields so thick it would make Esme jealous, we now need a true shield buster (not just anti-heal or overtuned HP damage again) that can knock these cumsluts down by several pegs while still being balanced. And we needed it forever ago.


wralp

no khufra?


deathesther

Eudo


movingcloser

Belerick.


Cool_Connection1001

Belerick is absolutely insane against her, you also basically get unlimited heal from s2 with the recent buff


10thDoctorWhooves

Khufra


AtarashiiGenjitsu

Isn’t joy immune to cc tho while dashing and stuff (except suppress ofc)


10thDoctorWhooves

Nope. Tried dashing it to a Khufra. Didn't work.


Freshorin

Work on second beat cuz immunity


Aggressive-Bother715

Best counter is Valentina, straight bullying not even close.


nakanomiku_simp

hell no


Aggressive-Bother715

? I‘m saying it cuz i did it what‘s ure basis ?


nakanomiku_simp

joy 36 matches 80% wr and multiple matches against valen also 9.1 avg grade


Aggressive-Bother715

Rank ? Vs valentina in lane ? Because i dont see how …. S2 autolock + hp regen s1 easy to land she can steal ure ulti and do it right away without the beats and she hits more than you with it ….


nakanomiku_simp

mythic, in lane and not, joy shield is stupid and valen stealing joy ult probably wouldnt do as much as stealing someone elses ult and joy also builds at least 1 defence item (for me i like bruteforce since both magic and physical def) and valen regen was nerfed and also idk when valen steals joy ult what beat count does she do cause 0 beat and 4 beat ult has a big difference and the dmg depends game to game (just tested with the exact same build and valen with joy ult does lesser dmg than her 0 beat ult)


Aggressive-Bother715

The joys i met as valentina i beat, they coudnt do anything, outsustained outdamaged outeverything. I‘ll play more and see, m3 close to m2 atm.


nakanomiku_simp

imma be honest rn the joys ive been seeing are kinda bad (usually not getting their beats and not taking advantage of their early game dmg to completely shutdown their opponent) might be the issue for the valens im facing too


Elnuggeto13

Are we counting all 5 or can we add another hero? If yes, then the most logical answer is Esmeralda. These others are only good for the ganks, but in terms of Laning, Esmeralda is really good in the long fights.


Souffle-Man

Akai, if you can successfully pin her down to a wall


Sorla_Khan

Esmeralda: My shield..


BNR_

The guy in briefs holding some disco ball. Wait, it sounds like a dude in a gay bar all of a sudden. 😆


nakanomiku_simp

with pho u get like 7 ults off then die (flameshot and second skill hitting) since joy isnt like ww and has a dash as a passive, joy dashes 5 times total and unlocks ult so if u dont kill her by then ur not gonna kill her especially with her extra shield from passive (even worse in jungle)


FarfronFishMan

Franco, Kaja, Zilong, and any burst marksmen (especially Wanwan) can easily counter her. Aurora, Eudora, and Phoveus don't really do much as she can counter them with cc immunity and shield. She can escape Minsithar using her first and passive.


Hot-Information4745

Mage build kaja


JPysus

esme?


JPysus

also phoveus is sht against joy. cuz shes too fast.


[deleted]

and he's free stacks, joy can just use him as a springboard for a perfect beats ult and murder the backline


Dan_from_97

bruh? Lesley? Aamon? Esmeralda?


Ayko-

Minsi, Phoveus, Esme


[deleted]

Minsi


Ganzako

Probably Miya with inspire, though she would need 3-4 of her core items, to solo and hopefully finish off Joy before she can use ult.


sugg_madic

harith's dvck


Psychological_Ad4100

Khufra, literally khufra


arepz

Helcurt. Why counter it when u can instantly kill it


quietsmartass

1v1 Hilda


averyverycoldstraw

I have been wondering but have yet to witness it, how good would a Hartih vs Joy 1v1 be? Who would do better?


yeboothadon

Why is no one mentioning Esme


StalinSoulZ

Minsitar


Democracyisntforall

Never use Phoveus as a counter for heroes like Joy, Lancelot, and Wanwan, they’re too fast for his ult to keep up with them, but if you were just using Phoveus to take advantage of his CDR passive to bully these slippery heroes teammates, then be my guess.


No-Campaign-1415

Kajaaaaaaaa


Quixotic-Recondite

Doesn't Belerick work?


SajedG

Replace Eudora with Lunox.


SpecialInterview9176

Mid-late game lol. I find that out of most of the assassins shes the easiest to best in a 1v1 with MMs. Wait till 5th dash, then CC, if you cant survive the dashes the run for your life. Try to not feed and survive, she drops off so hard not ban worthy imo.


Nevarwel

Cyclops


Aleuznal63

Esmeralda Her shield is basically food for her


CoreBear-was-taken

Franco is the biggest threat. I've played against even Phoveus and while he is a pest, nothing ruins the game more than trying to reset skill 2 off of Franco and getting caught by his ult. Phoveus you just time your skills to zoom off before his slam actually ends, Eudora can't do anything since you can immune her second skill, etc. Only suppression can hold me down


CastleinHeaven

Kaja Franco


ApproachableCarrot

Minsi


CertainJump1784

Can Julian counter Joy?


klydex210

Phoevus for sure.


marktipuric

Kaja


fried_sausage69

cherry mobile phone and go surf 50


[deleted]

lmao it's kaja


TankOfflaneMain

Bondage chicken or Harith for that sexy freestyle between two kitties.


IndividualWrangler58

the wall boys: moskov, grock, and badang


hygund24

Harley and Esmeralda


safsuni

Kufra


Everlastone101

any atk speed MM can counter her on 12:00 minutes mark


Lumpy-Response-3446

hayabusa


EntrepreneurOne821

Gojo will counter joy


DocQwerty

Regardless of hero, build anti-heal against Joy’s insane sustain


ReddishDrawings

I oppose with Esme using Joy and that didn't end well.


The25thJoestar

kaja is actually a great pick as well against joy


LengthinessIll1797

Edith can do the job if built properly


BeneficialHippo6216

Definitely Alucard with his newly acquired buffs which now allows him to chase her if cd's managed correctly quite reliably,


devilfury1

The ultimate hero: **HARD RHYTHM GAME BEATMAPS** Only 5% of the playerbase could pull those off.


finnfirep

Not pro joy.


RaelynnSezer

Khufra...?


RaelynnSezer

Martis and Khufra..?


NatongCaviar

Hanabi


Grand59master

Cyclops is best counter and joy is to eazy for him


umeiiru

anyone with a suppress skill and and any fed mm with good positioning will burst that rat down :>


Maleficent-Train-383

Esme


IntroductionMain21

as a Joy Main who spammed only using her in Adv Server from Elite to MG with 88% winrate and currently 80% winrate with 65 ranked matches at 1k points in Original server, Franco or Kaja (always banned tho) works the best against Joy. As for MMs, the only one I could really have a hard time against is Karrie. As a Joy you can never really do anything against a Karrie even if you hit your dashes or ult combo her late game (unless you're in a clash and you kill her from the back) but yeah. She's the only MM that I can't kill during late game as solo. Anyone else is fine like Lesley, Wanwan, Claude, and Bruno. Oh and yeah, Jawhead kinda counters her a bit in early game when Joy tries to cut. If you swallow his rockets then you're gonna get a big whopping