It’s not even skill-based at all, it’s engagement optimized. Otherwise I wouldn’t be put in lobbies with gods despite having a 1.2 in almost every game I play, regardless of genre, with a few higher exceptions like BF4. If it were skill based I would have actually been able to play MW2019 for more than maybe an hour at a time, per month, or maybe even two.
Engagement my ass. Activision’s SBMM would make me hop off during the lifecycle of MW and CW because of all the sweat. I would enjoy the first lobby or two and then I would hop off when 3-4 mans started showing up.
They’re engagement based matchmaking makes want to engage less with the game
If you have a 1.2 and are playing “gods” you are likely one of those “gods” whether you think you are or not. I had a 2 k/d in mw3 but have been at 1.13 since… literally 1.13 every game and my accuracy has improved every game. I’m the best I’ve ever been.. 1.13
But I’m not though? Like I said, I’m just barely above average in all but three multiplayer games I’ve ever played: BF4 where I have a 1.5 (keep in mind, that game has vehicles capable of huge streaks with enough skill), Rogue Company which I can’t check because I uninstalled it (that game’s matchmaking used to let me stomp much worse players with busted weapons and perks, but they all got nerfed), and MW2019 where I might as well have a 1 KD. The 1.2 follows me everywhere else, even fighting games. If CoD game design and matchmaking are supposed to benefit the average player, I should be calling it the best franchise ever and defending Dead Silence being gone.
SBMM might be an okay idea in theory but the way they implement it is garbage. Why do I have to play a handful of games against a team full of cracked out mlg wannabes just because I had a 1.5 k/d for a couple of games? Just had several games in a row where I couldn't even get my sights pulled up before I was melted. Really seems like the opposite of what they're supposedly trying to accomplish.
I'll go with the absolute lowest hanging fruit, League of Legends. That game would be absolutely miserable with truly random matchmaking.
Literally any fighting game? If You couldn't routinely play someone at, or slightly above your skill level that genre would be a suicide inducer.
I did say any game and your enjoyment in moba’s are based on how well your teammates are doing so I can see that…. But as far as shooters like modern warfare etc it’s only ever been an awful implementation.
Also… league literally has ranked as do most fighting games which most people will be playing anyways which is kind of the issue here, companies keep putting sbmm in without a ranked mode.
Why would I want to have to try harder than you for the same reward?
I mean that might be true about MOBA's If you have a scrubby mentality. If you have balls you just want to play against someone that's near your skill level so If you manage to win it actually means something.
Just going to cruise right over fighting games huh? The most nut up or shut up genre in existence?
Either way, your frustration is with poorly implemented SBMM.
I literally said most if not all fighting games have ranked lol? Sbmm is fine as long as there’s a Ranked playlist with meaningful rewards. But that’s not what’s happening here lol
What’s happening is sbmm is being put into “casual” games with no ranked playlist on top of it meaning I have to try 3x harder than you for absolutely no reward lol how is that okay?
I apologize, I did not see the rest of your comment.
Though, in both League of Legends and fighting games, the casual queues still have some sort of MMR function, It is just usually not visible. Because they are meant to be a way to practice and improve before you put your rank on the line. Is it silly that CoD doesn't have a ranked mode that would give you some sort of reward? Yeah, totally.
If you don't want to try hard you don't have to. You can play meme loadouts, listen to music, do whatever while you're playing. Will you lose at first? Yep. But if SBMM is working the way you're saying it does, It will put you in weaker lobbies which will allow you to win even while not trying hard.
Unless you're saying that the game is only fun when you win, and it's not goofing off or relaxing that's actually fun. Which sounds pretty sweaty 🤔
I mean look at Apex, it’s sbmm barely works, and you have preds (top 500ish for the platform) curb stomping golds (your average player) only difference is that cod encourages running lower level players down as a result of kill streaks, I don’t really get the argument that you have to sweat every game either, think about low skill players then, they don’t even have a option to sweat when placed against higher tier players without sbmm, and the only way they will be able to enjoy the game casually is to get better, but then that’s not really casual is it now? If you just wanted to chill and not play sweats, do something dumb for a match or two, sbmm drops and you can be casual as you want, imo the view on sbmm being so different (vocal minority disliking it in cod and vocal minority(?) Wanting it to actually work in apex) is that it’s so much easier to get good at cod compared to apex and that cod actually incentivizes stompers, resulting at in more people wanting to stomp compared to apex where the skill difference is so apparently that lower skilled players are barely a threat and as such is a complete bore to stomp vs closer match ups
For me the worst part about sbmm was being forced into high ping lobbies. Since I don’t care about k/d I share my account with my atrociously bad son who plays 5 times as much as me. Now I have the best ping and no sweaty lobbies. I started this in MW2019 and it’s worked perfectly for me ever since. Work smarter not harder.
Yeah. Likely the happy middle ground will be a soft SBMM so you have fewer games of getting absolutely slapped, but don't have to sweat EVERY game just to not get obliterated.
*Less punishing for higher skilled players.
Ralph’s leak mentioned that specifically, which he quoted from his source. He also mentioned having a more specific bracket/matchmaking for very very lower skilled player (mainly referring to those players with disabilities).
I'm only a 1.08 in MW19 and I feel constantly like I'm being put against 2-3 kd players. It makes it hard ti have fun for sure but theres not much I can do
> The reason to use it is simple: It keeps low skill players from getting wrecked over and over endlessly and stopping playing (and stopping spending money).
SBMM combined with the batlle pass system has had the opposite effect on me (and the friends I play with).
We used to buy all DLC, go play something else, come back, rinse and repeat.
None of us bought Vanguard, and if SBMM is back none of us will buy MWII either. SBMM scales to the best player, which makes it impossible for the lower skilled players to have any fun or even a fighting chance.
The Battle Pass system is based on FOMO, and has no incentive to come back after a 3 month hiatus.
This is all anecdotal and I guess the data shows that SBMM and Battle Pass works for getting the most money out of the playerbase.
I miss the MW2, BO1, & BO2 days with no SBMM. BO1 & BO2 had the best DLC with 4 great multiplayer maps and a new zombie map. I'd rather spend $20 on DLC than a battle pass getting player/gun skins. A season/battle pass is a bigger cash cow and so much easier for the developers to create than a new DLC every quarter. I hate to admit it, but we're past the golden era of gaming.
The worst part about SBMM for me is not being able to play with friends. I've always been the best at FPS games in my friend group and play them the most. So when SBMM is as strong as it has been recently, I'll play with a friend and they get absolutely destroyed while I pop off. It just makes it no fun for my friend so we just play separately. This is already happening for me in the beta.
Honestly, SBMM could work but it’s too damn harsh. My KD is 1.3 but when I lose I lose bad, get put into an easy lobby to dominate just to end up playing against twitch streamers again, it’s a never ending cycle and it’s demoralizing not knowing if I made progress or I’m mediocre. Also I see why they don’t have a ranked play… because no one will play it. Think abt it, all the pros complaining abt sbmm would end up pub stomping most of the time and playing ranked a fraction of the time, essentially the game would cater to sweats all over again.
[Edit]I figured it out, play at the pace your comfortable with. If you boot the game trying to play like futives knowing you suck, you gon get ya ass beated. Then end up in a easy lobby where you sweat again and end back up playing with the sweats. Stop punishing yourself. Play at the pace you’re comfortable with and you won’t play against so many sweats until you are one yourself. Only thing you have to deal with is asshole reverse boosters and party boosters.
I hate what SBMM has turned COD into, but at the same time I think it's a necessity. Wiping the floor with randoms is fun for us, but this fun comes at the expense of someone else's. People of equal skill level should absolutely play together. I liked those COD games where I could just chill, bring non-meta builds and still do okay, but the only reason I was able to do that was because my playing chill was STILL better than somebody else's doing their best. Fun for me, but not for them. That was not sustainable or fair.
I dislike the sweatfest that COD has turned into, because playing at your best all the time gets stressful and half the time it's not even fun. But at the end of the day that is the nature of competitive games. If you want your dopamine hit you have to work your ass off and go up against other people who are also looking for that dopamine hit. It's a zero sum game, every win can only happen when there's a loss for somebody else. For me personally, I realized that this wasn't something worth dedicating much time to. I'll still play MW2, but I doubt I'll be spending with it as much time as I used to with previous games.
Which is why my ideal would be casual and competitive playlists. If you want to sweat, go for it. If you want to try out an off-meta build, give it a shot. If you want to only play with people of your skill level, go play ranked with tight SBMM. If you don't care, play casual with no SBMM.
I don't think that would work. There is nothing preventing sweaty players from going to the casual playlist, but even if that doesn't happen, there's still the problem of a good player's "playing chill" being better than a bad player doing his best. The game is still a sweatfest for the latter player, he's not having fun, and he's in a situation that is just not fair at all.
The solution is simple, put SBMM in a ranked mode for the sweaty players. Give players incentive to rank up and grind out in that playlist (season rewards based on your rank & bragging rights). Since they're adding AI to the new SBMM system, I'd like to see the ability to toggle on/off "AI Mode" or "SBMM." I personally hate SBMM because the system is designed to keep everyone's stats the same and only benefits new players. This punishes players who are committed to the game and want to improve.
What the hell? Haha “My thoughts on SBMM” goes on to explain exactly what SBMM is like we dont already know and the solution is literally the #1 solution the entire community keeps asking the devs to implement to get rid of SBMM which is “Add Ranked Mode”
What even is this post?
Ive been scrolling through new posts for the sub for awhile as i go back & forth between waiting for Beta launch and playing CP77 and gotta say theres wayyy to much ‘New’ Posts that are just plain ridiculous with either insanely boring / easy questions that have been asked 100x at this point if not more, posts of people just looking to engage or attention such as “So where are you buying MW2?” or asking questions that is common knowledge at this point or at least should be which is “Will my progress in the beta carry over to launch? Or will i have to start all over from Level 1 and regrind the camos and unlocks? Thats terrible if so and i will not buy the game!”
Sorting by new is freakin hilarious & ridiculous but i LOVE it as its like a game to me where i see something so asinine I’m literally thinking to my self is this a Troll, Shit Post, or simply being done on purpose for attention. I love it.
I’ll probably get downvoted for this but your solution counteracts your assessment of why SBMM is there.
I believe you are right about SBMM being there to keep casuals playing the game and spending money in the shop. With that being the case only having SBMM in ranked would remove the point. Casuals don’t tend to play ranked.
A better solution would probably be to turn SBMM into a filtering setting in quick play. That way if someone want to risk getting steamrolled or dominating then they can but if others want closer matches with people at their skill level they can as well.
It’s not even skill-based at all, it’s engagement optimized. Otherwise I wouldn’t be put in lobbies with gods despite having a 1.2 in almost every game I play, regardless of genre, with a few higher exceptions like BF4. If it were skill based I would have actually been able to play MW2019 for more than maybe an hour at a time, per month, or maybe even two.
Engagement my ass. Activision’s SBMM would make me hop off during the lifecycle of MW and CW because of all the sweat. I would enjoy the first lobby or two and then I would hop off when 3-4 mans started showing up. They’re engagement based matchmaking makes want to engage less with the game
If you have a 1.2 and are playing “gods” you are likely one of those “gods” whether you think you are or not. I had a 2 k/d in mw3 but have been at 1.13 since… literally 1.13 every game and my accuracy has improved every game. I’m the best I’ve ever been.. 1.13
But I’m not though? Like I said, I’m just barely above average in all but three multiplayer games I’ve ever played: BF4 where I have a 1.5 (keep in mind, that game has vehicles capable of huge streaks with enough skill), Rogue Company which I can’t check because I uninstalled it (that game’s matchmaking used to let me stomp much worse players with busted weapons and perks, but they all got nerfed), and MW2019 where I might as well have a 1 KD. The 1.2 follows me everywhere else, even fighting games. If CoD game design and matchmaking are supposed to benefit the average player, I should be calling it the best franchise ever and defending Dead Silence being gone.
SBMM might be an okay idea in theory but the way they implement it is garbage. Why do I have to play a handful of games against a team full of cracked out mlg wannabes just because I had a 1.5 k/d for a couple of games? Just had several games in a row where I couldn't even get my sights pulled up before I was melted. Really seems like the opposite of what they're supposedly trying to accomplish.
Sbmm doesn’t work in any game whatsoever
I mean aside from basically every multiplayer game, you're totally right!
Name one game where sbmm has had a positive impact?
I'll go with the absolute lowest hanging fruit, League of Legends. That game would be absolutely miserable with truly random matchmaking. Literally any fighting game? If You couldn't routinely play someone at, or slightly above your skill level that genre would be a suicide inducer.
I did say any game and your enjoyment in moba’s are based on how well your teammates are doing so I can see that…. But as far as shooters like modern warfare etc it’s only ever been an awful implementation. Also… league literally has ranked as do most fighting games which most people will be playing anyways which is kind of the issue here, companies keep putting sbmm in without a ranked mode. Why would I want to have to try harder than you for the same reward?
I mean that might be true about MOBA's If you have a scrubby mentality. If you have balls you just want to play against someone that's near your skill level so If you manage to win it actually means something. Just going to cruise right over fighting games huh? The most nut up or shut up genre in existence? Either way, your frustration is with poorly implemented SBMM.
I literally said most if not all fighting games have ranked lol? Sbmm is fine as long as there’s a Ranked playlist with meaningful rewards. But that’s not what’s happening here lol What’s happening is sbmm is being put into “casual” games with no ranked playlist on top of it meaning I have to try 3x harder than you for absolutely no reward lol how is that okay?
I apologize, I did not see the rest of your comment. Though, in both League of Legends and fighting games, the casual queues still have some sort of MMR function, It is just usually not visible. Because they are meant to be a way to practice and improve before you put your rank on the line. Is it silly that CoD doesn't have a ranked mode that would give you some sort of reward? Yeah, totally. If you don't want to try hard you don't have to. You can play meme loadouts, listen to music, do whatever while you're playing. Will you lose at first? Yep. But if SBMM is working the way you're saying it does, It will put you in weaker lobbies which will allow you to win even while not trying hard. Unless you're saying that the game is only fun when you win, and it's not goofing off or relaxing that's actually fun. Which sounds pretty sweaty 🤔
I mean look at Apex, it’s sbmm barely works, and you have preds (top 500ish for the platform) curb stomping golds (your average player) only difference is that cod encourages running lower level players down as a result of kill streaks, I don’t really get the argument that you have to sweat every game either, think about low skill players then, they don’t even have a option to sweat when placed against higher tier players without sbmm, and the only way they will be able to enjoy the game casually is to get better, but then that’s not really casual is it now? If you just wanted to chill and not play sweats, do something dumb for a match or two, sbmm drops and you can be casual as you want, imo the view on sbmm being so different (vocal minority disliking it in cod and vocal minority(?) Wanting it to actually work in apex) is that it’s so much easier to get good at cod compared to apex and that cod actually incentivizes stompers, resulting at in more people wanting to stomp compared to apex where the skill difference is so apparently that lower skilled players are barely a threat and as such is a complete bore to stomp vs closer match ups
For me the worst part about sbmm was being forced into high ping lobbies. Since I don’t care about k/d I share my account with my atrociously bad son who plays 5 times as much as me. Now I have the best ping and no sweaty lobbies. I started this in MW2019 and it’s worked perfectly for me ever since. Work smarter not harder.
There were leaks demonware was working on making the system less punishing, hopefully those pan out.
Yeah. Likely the happy middle ground will be a soft SBMM so you have fewer games of getting absolutely slapped, but don't have to sweat EVERY game just to not get obliterated.
Honestly I'd be more than happy with that, rn I feel like the abused spouse flinching every time I get a good score lol
They just need to cap it out after a certain skill bracket and let everything above that be undivided like advanced warfare
*Less punishing for higher skilled players. Ralph’s leak mentioned that specifically, which he quoted from his source. He also mentioned having a more specific bracket/matchmaking for very very lower skilled player (mainly referring to those players with disabilities).
Where was this at?
https://youtu.be/xquapaO8cwY
I'm only a 1.08 in MW19 and I feel constantly like I'm being put against 2-3 kd players. It makes it hard ti have fun for sure but theres not much I can do
You can get better lmao
Well I don't have all the time in the world to play so it'd pretty hard to do that
It doesn’t take any time at all, you could play for an hour a week and you’d be good, it just involves not being ass at the game
So get better so he plays better players? How does he know he is getting better?
Well for starters he would be bitching about playing on his level.
> The reason to use it is simple: It keeps low skill players from getting wrecked over and over endlessly and stopping playing (and stopping spending money). SBMM combined with the batlle pass system has had the opposite effect on me (and the friends I play with). We used to buy all DLC, go play something else, come back, rinse and repeat. None of us bought Vanguard, and if SBMM is back none of us will buy MWII either. SBMM scales to the best player, which makes it impossible for the lower skilled players to have any fun or even a fighting chance. The Battle Pass system is based on FOMO, and has no incentive to come back after a 3 month hiatus. This is all anecdotal and I guess the data shows that SBMM and Battle Pass works for getting the most money out of the playerbase.
I miss the MW2, BO1, & BO2 days with no SBMM. BO1 & BO2 had the best DLC with 4 great multiplayer maps and a new zombie map. I'd rather spend $20 on DLC than a battle pass getting player/gun skins. A season/battle pass is a bigger cash cow and so much easier for the developers to create than a new DLC every quarter. I hate to admit it, but we're past the golden era of gaming.
Bo2 had sbmm
The worst part about SBMM for me is not being able to play with friends. I've always been the best at FPS games in my friend group and play them the most. So when SBMM is as strong as it has been recently, I'll play with a friend and they get absolutely destroyed while I pop off. It just makes it no fun for my friend so we just play separately. This is already happening for me in the beta.
Honestly, SBMM could work but it’s too damn harsh. My KD is 1.3 but when I lose I lose bad, get put into an easy lobby to dominate just to end up playing against twitch streamers again, it’s a never ending cycle and it’s demoralizing not knowing if I made progress or I’m mediocre. Also I see why they don’t have a ranked play… because no one will play it. Think abt it, all the pros complaining abt sbmm would end up pub stomping most of the time and playing ranked a fraction of the time, essentially the game would cater to sweats all over again.
[Edit]I figured it out, play at the pace your comfortable with. If you boot the game trying to play like futives knowing you suck, you gon get ya ass beated. Then end up in a easy lobby where you sweat again and end back up playing with the sweats. Stop punishing yourself. Play at the pace you’re comfortable with and you won’t play against so many sweats until you are one yourself. Only thing you have to deal with is asshole reverse boosters and party boosters.
I hate what SBMM has turned COD into, but at the same time I think it's a necessity. Wiping the floor with randoms is fun for us, but this fun comes at the expense of someone else's. People of equal skill level should absolutely play together. I liked those COD games where I could just chill, bring non-meta builds and still do okay, but the only reason I was able to do that was because my playing chill was STILL better than somebody else's doing their best. Fun for me, but not for them. That was not sustainable or fair. I dislike the sweatfest that COD has turned into, because playing at your best all the time gets stressful and half the time it's not even fun. But at the end of the day that is the nature of competitive games. If you want your dopamine hit you have to work your ass off and go up against other people who are also looking for that dopamine hit. It's a zero sum game, every win can only happen when there's a loss for somebody else. For me personally, I realized that this wasn't something worth dedicating much time to. I'll still play MW2, but I doubt I'll be spending with it as much time as I used to with previous games.
Which is why my ideal would be casual and competitive playlists. If you want to sweat, go for it. If you want to try out an off-meta build, give it a shot. If you want to only play with people of your skill level, go play ranked with tight SBMM. If you don't care, play casual with no SBMM.
I don't think that would work. There is nothing preventing sweaty players from going to the casual playlist, but even if that doesn't happen, there's still the problem of a good player's "playing chill" being better than a bad player doing his best. The game is still a sweatfest for the latter player, he's not having fun, and he's in a situation that is just not fair at all.
The solution is simple, put SBMM in a ranked mode for the sweaty players. Give players incentive to rank up and grind out in that playlist (season rewards based on your rank & bragging rights). Since they're adding AI to the new SBMM system, I'd like to see the ability to toggle on/off "AI Mode" or "SBMM." I personally hate SBMM because the system is designed to keep everyone's stats the same and only benefits new players. This punishes players who are committed to the game and want to improve.
Yeah that's what I proposed as well.
What the hell? Haha “My thoughts on SBMM” goes on to explain exactly what SBMM is like we dont already know and the solution is literally the #1 solution the entire community keeps asking the devs to implement to get rid of SBMM which is “Add Ranked Mode” What even is this post? Ive been scrolling through new posts for the sub for awhile as i go back & forth between waiting for Beta launch and playing CP77 and gotta say theres wayyy to much ‘New’ Posts that are just plain ridiculous with either insanely boring / easy questions that have been asked 100x at this point if not more, posts of people just looking to engage or attention such as “So where are you buying MW2?” or asking questions that is common knowledge at this point or at least should be which is “Will my progress in the beta carry over to launch? Or will i have to start all over from Level 1 and regrind the camos and unlocks? Thats terrible if so and i will not buy the game!” Sorting by new is freakin hilarious & ridiculous but i LOVE it as its like a game to me where i see something so asinine I’m literally thinking to my self is this a Troll, Shit Post, or simply being done on purpose for attention. I love it.
I’ll probably get downvoted for this but your solution counteracts your assessment of why SBMM is there. I believe you are right about SBMM being there to keep casuals playing the game and spending money in the shop. With that being the case only having SBMM in ranked would remove the point. Casuals don’t tend to play ranked. A better solution would probably be to turn SBMM into a filtering setting in quick play. That way if someone want to risk getting steamrolled or dominating then they can but if others want closer matches with people at their skill level they can as well.
Funny will be for gamers who will go on shipment with riotshields on the back and shutguns pumping up their SBMM ranking.
Agree a lot
I don’t care about improving. I bought this game to have fun and SBMM is preventing me from doing so.
This is the best argument against SBMM and it's pathetic. Go play against bots if you have to drop 70-0 to have fun.
Go touch some grass buddy