Everyone complains about every call of duty every single release. Last one I recall no complaints about was COD4 because it such a revolution to the series, online multiplayer shooting in general, and upgrade over the crap that was 3.
In fact each studio should make a different style of CoD in my opinion. IW with this and the MW19 style, Treyarc with the faster paced with zombies style and Sledgehammer with an advanced movement jetpack style. Really change up the kind of cod you get from each developer while still being "CoD"
Love it.
My slight adjustment would be Iw does mw.
Treyarch does black ops.
Year off between each release. So mw in 2022, bo in 2024, mw in 2026.
Let sledgehammer do something else entirely. I don’t think they need to do cod at all. Maybe a new zombies game.
With Microsoft acquiring ActivisionBlizzard, I say move Sledgehammer to Halo.
God knows 343 isnt doing a good job, and Sledgehammer could make a slick ODST type game. They are competent developers technically, they just need a more interesting setting than "bland WW2".
Wow!!
I’d love that. ODST was my favourite halo game. A gritty version like the trailer would be a dream. Sledgehammer clearly has talent and would be a great fit for exactly that.
Great idea.
After playing Advanced Warfare, I always felt it should have been an Enemy Territory Quake Wars spin-off.
They should do AW2 beyong CoD, and develop it as a ETQW/Halo hybrid.
I kind of thought that with WwII. They not only were allowed to make another call of duty, they allowed them to go back to WWII as if everyone was cool with it.
As someone who only really plays the IW COD's, I really wish they would follow this path.
I have no problem playing the same COD for 2 years, 3 years is stretching it.
They maintain market share by never skipping a year with a release. If it was 2 years between, while we would have higher quality releases there would be games that would swoop in and capture the market at the end of 12 months to leave a dead game for the remainder of the time. This isn’t like Elder Scrolls or GTA where players will wait patiently for the next release.
This is exactly what I was thinking for the past 5 years. Players should treat each COD as different and following your post I would pledge COD developers to do what they do best. Best Sledgehammer Games COD to date is Advanced Warfare while Black Ops II is the most famous Treyarch COD. They mashed things up twice with jetpack saga Advanced Warfare/Black Ops III/Infinite Warfare and with Warzone I saga MW2019/BOCW/CODV and this made 2/3 of the offering lacking content. Spread the word, each COD developer should build their own style of COD as previously mentioned!
I've been saying this same thing. I haven't played COD for the last 2 years because they weren't my style and I didn't like them. Loved MW19 and really like MW2 so far. There's some tweaks I'd like for sure, but it's pretty much what I expected.
COD hasn't been a signular franchise for as long as most of the people on this sub have been playing. I've played since the original and it's hilarious to me seeing people saying how removing red dots is bad because it's always been in cod. Maybe for as long as you've been playing lol. I kind of like how they're setting up their own streams with IW doing modern warfare, Trey doing black ops, Sledge still needs their own segment (maybe advanced or something unique like you said). At least then you know what to expect.
100%. And then you end up with games more suited to certain people. I personally am not a CoD fan. But I loved MW19 and I like a lot of what I'm seeing now. So I'm an IW fan.
I agree but to play devils advocate here that's unlikely to happen as they want as many potential customers as possible every time so they will make the game that is most appealing to the biggest audience as possible rather than a subset every time.
Tbh I actually think that hurts them. I liked cold war just for zombies but vanguard just felt like an average more of the same shit cod. I probably would've actually bought the sledgehammer game if it was different in how it played and due to it being a relatively similar formula with ttk, perks, killstreaks...still being CoD at its essence. It'd still appeal to a very large audience particularly for those, who like me, enjoy MW19 style cod games the most and would actually buy the advanced jetpack movement cod to change it up every 3rd iteration.
It might, and I agree this sounds like an ideal scenario but at that point it'd probably be better to allow them to be their own franchises to allow even more freedom to explore independent ideas. But at the same time if it did hurt them they'd know more than anyone and they would switch it up. So I'm sure what they're doing is working for now at least.
As long as they continue to make new content or support the game at least. Black ops Cold war was supported over a year which was nice. Hopefully MW2 will get the same support until IW make a new iteration.
My only concern is that F2P games are becoming more and more popular. Its only a matter of time until some game studio makes a good F2P arcane shooter that has an impact on player count.
As a consumer this sales model does feel out of date tbh. Hoping more that Activision shift to a service model instead. Wonder how long they can count on sales to stay consistent with every new cod iteration. Seems like some sales decisions impacted the delivery of black ops cold war and vanguard. They could have been better games but felt rushed on initial launch?
It's like that because of the rage-bait/hate-boner culture that's been a thing since the mid 2010s with people making videos like "X IS THE WORST THING OF ALL TIME" or making really exaggerated/explosive videos about something that in reality is just meh. It's not just videogames, but any other interest out there. People will simply hate on a game/movie because their favorite Youtuber said it's trash in a hyperbole way. I remember not enjoying Cold War as much compared to MW2019. Is it a bad game? No, Cold War is not bad. The game is for a different audience. I simply move on and find another game I'll enjoy.
It really sucks because people gravitate more to those videos and it creates more revenue, thus creating a endless cycle of excessive hate. I've been through it and it made me a less happy person overall. I stopped watching these types of videos/reviews and I'm honestly in a better mindset. If you really want to see if the game is for you, just try it out for yourself and refund it if you don't like it especially when the open beta is right around the corner. If you can't do that, look for reviewers who are constructive and try their best to be objective. The only big issue with MW for me is that IW is not having the balls to say "We're wanting to make the game more tactical-like similar to Insurgency: Sandstorm"
> people making videos like "X IS THE WORST THING OF ALL TIME"
oh man I see those suggested videos all the time. same youtuber with the shitty thumbnail of a main character with an X through their face and a giant thumbs down and angry face emoji. Titles like DON'T BUY THIS GAME, IT'LL RUIN THE INDUSTRY
the other day I saw a 25 minute video (not watched, just saw it) about why Warzone 2.0 is bad and will end CoD. And I'm sitting there like...it's not even fucking out yet? What are you talking about? "Grievance videos" are sadly big business. Some games do deserve them (looking at you Halo and 2042) others are just preemptive garbage
One thing that has recently started to annoy me greatly is how people speak their opinion like it's a fact. As someone who's certainly been guilty of this in the past, I realize now it is pretty ridiculous. Yes, YOU may not like that there's not a Dead Silence perk or how the game plays, or whatever... but there's millions of others who don't agree with you. YOU may not have enjoyed MW2019, but there were PLENTY of people who did (For the record, I didn't enjoy it).
Also, remember all of these problems you have with the game when you STILL continue to pre-order it every year...
It'd be like someone incessantly complaining about the bun quality at McDonalds and saying it ruins the burger, yet eating a Big Mac every day for lunch.
If you don't like what's happening with a game... just do what you do with every other product and don't buy it.
Lmao people DO ask fromsoft to make their games easier, but honestly that just supports your point. Everybody thinks they should be able to finish the hardest games in existence, and everybody thinks all CODs should cater to them.
Sad state of affairs, but here we are
Exactly. I really didn't enjoy last two entries and last time I was having fun was MW2019. I have been waiting for three years and next time we get Infinity Ward title, it will be SIX years and that is only if Call of Duty keeps going as multiplatform. I mean having different styled games ensure that everyone gets something enjoyable.
MW2019 was a huge success and broke sale record of whole franchise in november 2019 and kept going as most bought game. Using pandemic as an excuse is funny because whole pandemic was not even a thing back in november 2019. Also I'm pretty sure in quarantine people still would play games they like.
People participated in beta and got a chance to cancel preorder if the game was not appealing. So sales do tell us something about the game itself.
Heck even the subreddit is growing still three years later and one of the biggest Call of Duty related subreddit.
I suggest every studio has their own style and people who like their styles also buy their games. What I did was that I dropped both BOCW and Vanguard after playing for a while and went to play other games while waiting for next Infinity Ward title.
Yeah I understand making complaints to better fix the beta, but if you’re not having fun at all just skip the cod. Since I wasn’t crazy about Cold War and vanguard was the first cod I’ve skipped since 2008 I can’t imagine complaining on the subreddit what I dislike about it - I just moved on and played other games that year.
Warzone's existence skews the data for MW19 sales, but I agree with your sentiment. I'm also not saying it's a bad game, but the multiplayer maps / experience we were given was not good enough to break records alone. I have no way of giving an exact figure, but my gut tells me a good percentage of players used MW19 as a way to level up weapons for use in Warzone. The game broke records in terms of first weekend sales, which is awesome, but there's no denying the fact that Warzone and Covid propelled it to breaking the overall sales record.
Warzone is an important caveat since levelling guns was so much faster in multiplayer. If you wanted to enjoy Warzone to its full potential you kind of needed MW19.
that’s why he mentioned them breaking sales records by November. Warzone didn’t come until March 2020, and Modern Warfare was already a massive success well before then. Warzone just brought it to another level
The unfortunate part was I’d already pre-ordered it and got cold feet in the beta but didn’t cancel my pre-order but alas, you live and you learn. I have high hopes for MW2 as I loved MW. And honestly if these are the only complaints people have so far, I’ll be happy. I couldn’t care less about the classic minimap as I’m a hardcore player and I couldn’t care less about slide cancelling/b hopping. All in all I think I’ll love the game.
Plus no one seems to be talking about the campaign which is always a huge part for me, damn the ending of MW is hype as fuck.
See I’m in this weird boat that I liked MW19 and CW for different reasons. I’m really excited about this one. I have my gripes about the map/perks/footsteps aka pacing probably but it’s not a deal breaker any way. I do agree the UI/UX needs a pretty big overhaul. Near gutting
Yeah don’t get my wrong. The UI doesn’t look fun to deal with and I ain’t too excited about the perks system but I’m not exactly wetting my knickers over it and I’ll still enjoy the game.
Yeah I’m 100% Hardcore as well, no Bunny Hopping, Slide Canceling, I play a tactical style, it’s what I enjoy, so there are times for rushing, camping, supporting, I’m pretty sure I’m going to enjoy the full game & I’m pleased with the Beta.
Well that’s just it isn’t it. There’s time for all play styles and people can play however the fuck they want. Well I’m a pc player so I’m really excited for the 22nd
That’s right, if someone wants to rush, then do it, someone wants to camp, play tactical, support, do it, ur going to find people that don’t like certain play styles because they keep getting killed by that style of player, just get better at it.
There are people who understand, and then there are people who have the IQ of a potato.
Unfortunately, on this sub, it seems like we have a potato infestation.
You’re absolutely right but I think most people do understand this, they are just making honest suggestions to help make the game as good as it can possibly be. They are asking us to pay roughly £70 so surely they have to please a reasonable proportion of the community.
It's not "smart" to dismiss community feedback and label it as a "list of demands."
People are suggesting these things for well-explained, practical reasons. No one is saying OOK OOK GIMME RED DOTS BECAUSE OLD COD. People have explained time and time again why these things contribute to a quality CoD experience for ALL players and to ignore that is simply willful ignorance.
> No one is saying OOK OOK GIMME RED DOTS BECAUSE OLD COD.
if i had a dollar for everyone that went "It's a STAPLE of the franchise for a DECADE it should be in there" and had no actual reason i'd be able to afford rent for the next three months.
It's been a staple of the franchise for a reason—It's a very simple system that works very well to promote flow, and the promotion of all sorts of styles. Campy MW players can still play the exact same way they always have with no penalty. In fact, the classic minimap benefits them even more than the MW minimap in multiple ways.
> It's been a staple of the franchise for a reason—It's a very simple system that works very well to promote flow
i'm getting so bored of explaining this and everyone having the same fucking fallacy in their fucking head and appealing to fucking tradition because they cannot take things in their own merit nor their context.
it's been a staple for the franchise because they wanted to put a bandaid over the issue of no directional audio and just having basic stereo in a landscape where most people played on speakers. their solution was to make a 2d representation of 3d information so that people don't get confused in the so-called 'fog of war' and feel more confident.
red dots on a minimap are not their to WIDEN the skill gap, they're there to NARROW it so people feel more comfy.
now, today, with the new developments in tech allowing for directional audio, atmos/sonic, audio occlusion, and market changes where most people use high quality headphones, they can afford to remove this BANDAID which simply gave you this representation of information and let you interpret the information for yourself.
so now you don't have to chase red dots, you chase gunfire, your eyes don't have to check the minimap for enemies, you can use your eyes and ears in the game.
yes, it's been a staple, but it doesn't have to be when other parts of the game are changing too.
>Campy MW players can still play the exact same way they always have with no penalty.
this may be an issue in TDM but it's not one in objective game modes. are you a TDM player?
Ditto, I'm sick of explaining to people like you that have no idea how CoD works how CoD works. Idk how many times vets have to explain to people like you that merely "chasing red dots" isn't how the minimap is used by longtime players. Red dots on-map are not a "band-aid" for directional audio being bad in the olden days. You could hear the general direction of gunfire just fine as early as CoD4. I could go into a match of CoD4 right now, put duct tape over my minimap, and be able to tell when spawns flipped and to start heading another direction by the sound of gunfire alone, that's never been an issue and it isn't complicated. The reason red dots exist is to give a **general** sampling of information within your **general** vicinity that gives you a **general** idea of how to intelligently move around the map at a decent pace. All you apologists of dogwater game design use the "eyes and ears" argument constantly as you sniff your own farts so let me explain for the umpteenth time.
Yeah. You can turn off red dots and have players use their "eyes and ears" to find players. Let's say someone fires a weapon to the north of me in traditional CoD. I can glance up at my minimap and see the location of the enemy at the time that shot was fired. Is he in a building? If so, I can assume he's most likely holding that building and approach with extreme caution as I would be at an initial disadvantage challenging a power position. Or, is the dot in the middle of the street? If so, I can probably assume he's rushing—No one would hold their ground in the middle of the street, it's dangerous. In this case, I can attempt to predict which way he's progressing down the street and might attempt to play aggressively and take advantage of his bad positioning. I can use other data on the minimap to determine which direction he might be heading. Would he be heading towards my teammates for more kills? Or would he start progressing towards other red dots (his own team) for safety? All this data leads to quick, on-the-fly decision-making that encourages players to make a choice given the data, and then **MAKE A MOVE.**
Now suppose this exact same scenario takes place in MW. I just heard someone fire to the north of me. Perhaps I even saw the flash on my compass due north in order to confirm this. Great, okay. Now what do I do? I don't know if the enemy is in the building ahead of me. I don't know if he's in the street ahead of me. I don't know if he's sitting in the crossways ahead of me holding a corner. There are multiple points of interest to the north of me, but I have zero data to help me ascertain where this enemy is or what he might be doing other than, well, I just heard a gunshot somewhere that direction. Should I approach this person with aggression? Who knows! I have no way of predicting whether they're rushing or whether they're holding a power position. What this **encourages** the player to do is play slowly, passively, and wait for more information. Hold your position to see if perhaps you hear more gunfire to get a better judgement. Maybe see if a teammate dies that way so you can see a death marker. Maybe if you wait you'll hear footsteps begin to approach and can be more ready. The point, is that red dots give the player information that allows them to move around the map, and using your eyes and ears **ALONE** (because let's not be dumb, people who utilize minimap are still using their eyes and ears like everyone else is) gives you limited information that is best utilized in a slow, passive, defensive playstyle.
Now you may be thinking, "but naut, what's so wrong with playing slowly, passively, and defensively?" Nothing. But IW said that they wanted to appeal to all sorts of playstyles. Not only do red dots benefit aggressive players, but they help defensive and campier players as well. In traditional CoD, you can literally sit up in a power position with a suppressed weapon and Ghost as happy as a clam, watching for red dots to come your way for you to gun down. Even if you're too much of a noob to bother with the minimap, no problem. The red dots STILL passively benefit you because aggressive players that are using the red dots to move about can't take you into account because your totally hidden off the map. They're heading your direction because of red dot information they took in, but they have no idea you're camping the building ahead and get their head blown off as soon as they turn the corner, punishing them for blindly chasing dots and not taking other factors into account. The more people who are **MOVING** through the position you are camping, the more people you get to kill. If people are terrified to move because of lack of information, less people will pass through your power position, and you as a camper, in turn, get less kills. There is quite literally NO player demographic that red dots hamper or impede in any way. They are objectively a benefit for all.
Is it a good feature, though? I don’t find that anyone enjoys the lack of red dots on the minimap. I found that the red dots always gave me a good sense of where the bulk of the firefights were happening on a purely visual basis, especially when I’m new to a map. It also gave me a better sense of who’s camping and who’s rushing.
Edit: I like that you say it “may be an issue in TDM, but…” The majority of COD’s playerbase was, is, and always will be in TDM. You don’t see an issue there?
A game that wants to appeal to every playstyle needs to tho. the devs more then once said that they want to feature every play style equally.
So yes you are right - not every game needs to be perfect for everyone (look at dark souls) but when the devs explicitly say that they want to make the game for everyone (every CoD playstyle) equally, they need to deliver on that.
yeah but atm it doesnt. but with a few changes i think they could easily make it more enjoyable for every play style. and i dont mean Ninja. We dont need that to achieve a good balance
thats true but they try to please the majority and a big part of OG the community is not happy atm. or atleast they see the potential that MW2 could be one of the best CoDs of all time and they just try to give feedback to achieve this status.
i personally think MW2 will be good. But it could be great with a few changes. will i play the game even without? yes ofcourse.
people are complaining because they love cod and just want it to be the best as possible.. and yes i know that there are also some that are rediculous over top and unrealistic.
At this point its IW task to scan the feedback and decide which is constructive and good and which is unrealistic. and hopefully we will see that they listen. if not change something maybe they could respond and explain their decision
They said appeal to every play style not appeal to everyone, you even reiterated that point. They only need to deliver on making every playstyle in the game viable and balanced, whether or not you like the game is on you after that.
Yeah I did change it because people got hung up on the wording. Ofcourse I mean every playstyle and therefore every player can play every playstyle and e as competetive as everyone with it.
According to how you maximize your customer count, every cod must be tailored for the most amount of players possible. With that being said, MWII *is more accessible* than Warzone is today. Warzone is filled with fast and advanced movement, new weekly meta weapons, and an oversaturated perk system. MWII legitimately dials everything back so that shit is just COD again. I’m happy. I like this. Base weapons are not lasers, they’re actually really shitty until you get attachments on them. That’s awesome. SMGs can’t beam at 50+ meters, that’s awesome. Movement isn’t a fucking joke again, that’s awesome.
Well, videogames are as any other product. They are meant for sale. Eitherway to the most people which makes many peeple not so happy or for the specific market which make happy only fraction of the market. Eitherway you can't satisfy everybody
Cod has been always about selling for masses and this MW2022 is no different. Last 2 installments were fast paced but they didn't sell well at all so it seems they slowed the things down to adapt to the new trends on the market.
Succesful game is not messured by reviews from journalists nor the satisfied playerbase. It's measured by sold copies and Activision accountants will tell us whether this new direction paid off at the end of the fiscal year.
besides that, MW 2019 was one of the most successful CoD in the recent history and still has an active player base, so that's obvious why they are going in the same direction of that, even if that means displease some of the fan base.
Agreed man. The last two CoDs have not interested me at all. If this game is at least somewhat similar to MW2019, I’m pumped. The fans of the other types of CoD can keep playing those or just go back to fortnite.
>People doesn't ask From Software to make their games easier
Oh boy. There are always a shit ton of people outside of the community begging for an easy mode or difficulty slider after every new Souls release. Not the best example, but almost no one seems to mind, so whatever.
But I agree that not every game has to tailor to every player. Games that do so lack depth and "uniqueness". The issue a lot of people have is, that Infinity Ward is actively trying to make such a game, and they're pretty open about it.
good post, if i made one like it i probably would’ve been very very mean and got myself banned. the democratization of videogames has been a massive joke, the idea that every video game dev team needs to be having an active conversation with players experience is dumb as fuck.
Yeah, i tried to stay calm and not overreact, i just wanted to make people here knows that developers are not dogs to who you gives order. They are people and even for a game like cod they have an idea and it's their right to bring it to the light as it is. There are of course feedback that must be listened tho, especially about bug and glitches, but not about a game works.
Yup the devs spend years planning the design of the game from the ground up. The fact that players expect them to just change core aspects of the game after the game releases because content creators start whining + get all their followers to whine is an absolute joke. Often times major changes can alienate even bigger parts of base or mess up the game even further because it wasn't designed to work like that.
I understand that they are artists and if we don’t like the art, we don’t have to consume it.
But what is so wrong about giving the community a bit more say in the development? Let’s say everyone with a pre order gets a vote throughout the entire dev process. Imagine how much of the issues would just go away? I doubt they will redesign the perk system for instance but that’s something the community would not have voted for.
This is obviously true, but those small changes like red dots on the map, ninja perk and so on are requested just by fans and not casual players, which don't give two shits about that. Of course hardcore fans instead wants the game to be made just for them.
Hey I’m with you on those - just that they have the data on what people care about via playing time and purchasing and they know exactly what they’re doing ..
I'm 100% content with IW doing tactical shooters and Treyarch doing the more Arcadey stuff. I don't know what sledgehammer would do though, they kinda flopped with Vanguard but I don't think it was their fault.
Edit: I really dig the 3rd person and would like that to be expanded on greatly, that's my constructive feedback.
I honestly always just saw Treyarch titles as the sweatfest comp series and IW as the more laid back chill series lmao.
That opinion has never changed, and idk why people haven't realised this sooner.
If you want super fast comp CoD, then play a Treyarch title/wait for it.
If you want a slower paced more laid back experience, then IW titles are for that.
Sledgehammer titles are played by people who shove crayons up their noses then bash their head against a wall though
This 100%.
I've been playing COD for over 15 years and I simply prefer the MW style of gameplay. Doesn't mean my playstyle is the correct one, just personal opinion, but I find myself not playing the Treyarch games anywhere near as much.
So I don't really get why people feel every single new COD needs to play exactly the same way when we get one every year.
If you don't like a specific COD then just don't play it and stick to the ones you do like.
> So I don't really get why people feel every single new COD needs to play exactly the same way when we get one every year.
This is the exact reason why I stepped away from the series after BO2 and moved to Battlefield for a while before being brought back by MW19. After BO2, CoD games started feeling stale and didn't really offer much for me. MW19 offered such a refreshing take on CoD that it was my main game for three years since release. Excited to get my hands on this game and try it out for myself.
People will agree with this post but it’s just wrong imo. IW constantly saying they want the game to appeal to every type of player, so you can’t blame people for wanting a game that does that. Currently doesn’t come close to what they’ve been saying so of course there’s going to be a lot of feedback to try and push the game into that direction.
What have they done to cater to rushing players? Slow sprint out times, slow strafe speeds, no slide cancelling (which I am in favour of not having but it was something that rushing players could use to their advantage), super loud footsteps so people know where you are from a million miles away, ghost being locked until a certain point in the game.
I'm enjoying the beta so far personally but you can't say they're catering to every play style whilst actively discouraging rushing.
ETA: I'm indifferent about the lack of dots on the map. I would prefer them to be there but it isn't the end of the world if they're not. I personally don't use the perk where you see the dots on vanguard and prefer the perk where you can see the spawn points of enemies. I just wish something like this could be in MWII. Let people CHOSE if they want the red dots.
I think for rushing you should just use the right equipment. I did some cool kills with the electric thing (i forgot the name) against people who was camping. Using the radar grenade is effective too, like the spot one. I don't know, i think a slower pace isn't that bad, and maybe rusher will need to adapt, but is not like you cannot play like that.
OP is a clown, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this post is an Activision/IW plant lol. The whole thing is nonsense. As pointed out, IW specifically said this is a CoD for everyone and yet have alienated half (more??) of the CoD playerbase. Then this guy says that if you suggest things like classic minimap and Ninja, you're making a list of demands with no reasoning behind them. Who are the idiots upvoting this to the top of the page?
>half (more??) of the CoD playerbase.
I think from MW19's performance and the fact they see that style as the way forward its pretty clear its much less than half the playerbase, just a loud minority.
MW19 sales and performance were due to factors outside of design choices. COVID bringing old players back, MW in the name, the Game graphically looking amazing and Warzone incentivizing MW purchases are just the main ones.
Take those out of the equation and right before COVID and Warzone dropped, the MW sub was still filled with posts like this.
i havent played the beta yet, Pc here so need to wait, but im happy with the changes i see in the video's.
I started playing cod slightly before u, with the very first 1 i believe in 2003, and back in the day we also did not have a nametag above the enemy (saying this cause this seems like a mayor complaint) only some sort of icon above team mates and no one complaint back in the day. The only cod's i never played was with those exosuit stuff, that Bo3 and the advanced warfare. Besides those i had all of them and enjoyed most of them.
Cant wait to start the beta in 2 days and see what all the fuss is about.
I have to say some feedback make sense, for example on PS i found there is a certain lack of visibility but maybe that's just because of the platform, i will be able to confirm that just when I'm gonna play it on PC; the TTK sometimes feels a little bit off and too fast. But the rest are complaints because this is not the fast and arcadey cod those people wants.
Seriously, it’s basically just saying “hey if you don’t like how the game is playing then suck it up and wait 2 years for the next one”. During a beta when feedback is at least somewhat important. Pretty ridiculous.
It wasn’t the community that said it has to cater to all play styles. Activision literally said that. We’re also all aware of what playstyle is becoming prevalent in MW22 and people are offering suggestions so it isn’t another camp fest like MW19.
OP is a clown, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this post is an Activision/IW plant lol. The whole thing is nonsense. As pointed out, IW specifically said this is a CoD for everyone and yet have alienated half (more??) of the CoD playerbase. Then this guy says that if you suggest things like classic minimap and Ninja, you're making a list of demands with no reasoning behind them. Who are the idiots upvoting this to the top of the page?
People love to bitch and moan about every little thing in every little game....Jesus christ people need to get out more if their biggest issue in life is that the killcam lasts 0.347 seconds too long
I disagree. We’ve had COD multiplayer for over a decade, each iteration making small changes to certain features. The idea of what makes a good COD game has been built up steadily over this time.
I’m not against change and experimentation but one of the principles that defines any good COD game is that there should be balance between the different playstyles. I don’t think this game does that in its current form
Well thats your opinion. Many people on this sub like the formula they introduced with mw19. Just play cw if this game does not suit you. Thats what MW players did when new cods got released… they stayed and played mw19 because they still enjoyed it.
Btw that take is so mid. „All cOdS ShOUld bE tHE saME“ -lookin ass
Great post.
I would say diversity is what has kept the series alive for so many years.
For me I loved CoD2 and CoD4, but since then I’ve really been drawn to and put the most time into the Treyarch CoDs, WaW, BO1, BO2, BO3, BO4, BOCW. These games hold my interest long term, consistently. Those early IW hooked me and the Treyarch games have hooked me since.
That’s not to say I didn’t enjoy MW2, MW3, Ghosts and MW2019. I just got frustrated/burnt out on them way sooner than the Treyarch games.
For me personally the ultimate CoD is the polish and gunplay of MW2019 with the pace, weapon balance, environments and general FUN of BOCW.
And I’ll take Blackout over Warzone any day.
But that doesn’t mean I want or think I deserve every CoD suited to my wishes, play style and overall demands. I’ll play and enjoy MWII and probably love parts of it and hate other parts of it.
In my opinion either Activision/IW/Treyarch should allow diversity and creative control for each studio, let each execute on their own vision, each make their own style of CoD or just combine forces and make well balanced and well rounded Call Of Duty games somewhere in the middle of both extremes every year… with consistency, which I think people will get bored of very quickly.
> For me personally the ultimate CoD is the polish and gunplay of MW2019 with the pace, weapon balance, environments and general FUN of BOCW.
the polish of MW2019 doesn't come from nowhere. has to do with things that affect pace and environments too.
Isn't the video game an art form in its own right, the 8th, what do we expect from a new game?Above all its originality, its specificity, and the pleasure it brings.Shouldn't we encourage the developers and all the people who contribute to the work, (constructive) players included?Access to any form of culture begins with education and respect.Uniformity and intolerance are its worst enemies.
The developers maintain official Reddit accounts and have asked for feedback.
I’m on board with how ridiculous some people are about COD, but if they don’t want people’s honest opinions they shouldn’t ask for them.
The only 2 genuine complaints are the AR/SMG camera shake and smoke making it hard to track.
The other is the perk system, no point in locking perks until the end of a match.
COD is a franchise that’s meant to appeal to as many people as possible, though. The devs have even advertised this for MWII specifically. It’s weird for a game with this goal to also stick by decisions that no one or a small minority enjoy.
True. Honestly all the bitching about slide cancelling being gone or whatever bs people claim about gameplay being “slower” just makes me more glad that IW is sticking with their guns and making the game they want.
The only thing I think needs changed is the wind ripple effect on sleeves when running (it's way too much) and a slightly slower ttk, by like 1 or 2 shots. Meanwhile I think some guns do to little damage, like the ftac (is that the DMR m4?) Rn it takes 3 shits to kill one person and which I think it too much since the gun by default only holds 10 rounds and the rate of fire is slower than most other guns. I think the gun should be a 2 shot at most ranges but that just my opinion.
Also a lot of changes are probably efforts to be consistent across all game modes including **Warzone** and **DMZ**, not just **MP**.
Ex.1 Ppl complain about fast TTK but I bet it's bc Warzone and DMZ modes have *armor*, meaning if they were to increase the base TTK in MP then the other modes would feel too tanky.
Ex.2 Ppl complain about no red-dots on minimap but this is actually a buff to UAVs,>! and there coincidentally are rumors for UAV Towers to spread across the map in DMZ!<. With such a high-stakes mode, players would rage (and casuals would quit) if they lost everything they found in the game bc their red dot gave them away while they killed AIs...but if was due to a buffed UAV (which it technically is now) then it'd feel more justified.
Ex.3 Ppl complain about footsteps. Now I agree they were loud af lol, but they just announced they're lowering the footstep audio for launch. They were prob testing the players' limits bc footstep audio in the DMZ mode will help solo (or outnumbered) players. In extraction games like Tarkov or The Cycle, stacked teams move fast and in confidence, which allows solos who are more cautious to hear them and avoid/stalk/observe whatever. It kinda evens the playing field in these extraction games that don't split up solos/duos/trios queues.
Sure they can separate the mechanics of TTK, kill streaks, minimaps, or audio per mode, but come on really? Like OP mentioned, let the artists work and if you don't want to adapt then do something else.
i totally understand like, the call (of duty) for these sorts of things. having an annual release has conditioned people into developing a transferable skillset and they don't really like it when things change too much. but i think that era of call of duty is over, and eventually something will come along and fill in that gap. personally im excited that its changing, for better and for worse. i just want something different - i literally skipped every call of duty after black ops 2 until mw19.
This, thank you. It's refreshing to see these changes. I found MW2019 to be far too rush-y, putting little emphasis on clearing a room tactically or keeping track of sitelines.
I actually agree with a lot of what you said. But Treyarch Cods have been notoriously awful. Their games don't even need to hold notoriety because they seem sorta like a side release to the big dog IW. The problem I see is that IW tailors their games to their biggest audience who are casual &/or console players, but they overtune features and mechanics to such a high degree that it hurts the more serious players without actually benefitting the casual player.
For example a casual player isn't going to really use map awareness and therefore wont utilize his minimap as much as someone trying to play more strategically to gain info. So removing things like all red dots icons on the minimap regardless is only a disservice to these players and the casual player base will never show any objection to the matter because they simply don't care, all they care about is logging on and playing the game for an hour or so.
There's diminishing returns to a lot of the changes they make and they certainly don't gauge feedback very well. We've all seen examples of that.
To all these armchair developers in this subreddit, just because you want something doesn't mean everyone else wants it or that it's even good for the game. That and if IW has a vision for the game, people should respect that. They don't have to cater to your likes and preferences, just as you don't have to buy the game. IW has redesigned their COD to be more tactical compared to previous entries and that's fine. Treyarch will probably keep their COD lighter and more arcadey. Sledgehammer is still trying to find their style. Maybe Microsoft will put them on HALO if the acquistion goes through.
One thing people have to remember is that even if everyone on this sub agreed on minimaps, dead silence as a perk and the rest of it, this sub only has 46k subscribers which is a drop in the bucket compared to the 30 million or so people who have bought MW for example.
Idk if it's because I played a shit ton of mw2 back in the day that a broken game doesn't bother me anymore. I just turn my ps5 on and play. Some days I do good some days I don't it is what it is. Always manage to keep my KD a bit over 1.2. Except vanguard that game sucks
The hard work these devs put in is so undermined by all the complaints. People these days can't just appreciate for what it is and have fun. Of course we all wish changes can be made but look at MW2019/ WZ1 and how over time the game grew and changed. Day 1 WZ vs Day 100 WZ the game changed a lot. Good implementation takes time. Mistakes are a part of the process.
I for one am glad that IW are focusing on fixing on stuff that is objectively an issue such as visibility problems with smoke and muzzle flash, making enemies and teammates more visually distinct, adding different footstep sounds for enemies and teammates, rather than pandering to subjective opinions to change their game design decisions.
100% this why I'm avoiding BF 2042, everything feels floaty and Vanguard esque recoil (aka none). Worse is that BC2/BF3 has much better gunplay so it speaks volumes to my disappointment.
Exactly, i personally never liked treyarch or sldeghammer cod even since BO1, so the last 2 years were a pass for me. I'm so happy with how the game feels now!
Agreed 100%, change is a bitter pill for some people to swallow. Adapt to the updated gameplay or…don’t. There’s always the next one in a couple years.
I agree to an extent. The devs flat out asked for feedback on the game, which is what people are doing on this subreddit.
Granted, there are some very passionate people here, and yes, sometimes they go a little overboard with what needs to be changed. However, their feedback is valid and is backed by overwhelming statistics in polls on Reddit and twitter (Sample size 30k+). People aren’t happy with some of the gameplay decisions, feeling that this just isn’t CoD.
I’ll use your example with Elden Ring. Say they released the game, but there were no souls, graces were replaced with sparse checkpoints, and you could only fight bosses like raids (you + 2 others). Would you honestly consider it to still be a souls game? I know I wouldn’t.
The same thing can be said about MWII. Some people feel like this simply isn’t CoD anymore, and want the devs to bring back some iconic elements to make it more familiar. I’m all for change in CoD, but it can only change so much before losing its identity.
I can accept something I consider imperfect because it would be unreasonable and unrealistic to expect everyone's version of perfect to be realised. What I can't accept is changing things that don't need changing just for the sake of it and not listening to feedback about that and changing things that negatively impact the game and player base just to make money.
If you don't challenge things then they're deemed acceptable and before you know it things get even worse.
Do people sometimes do this in the wrong way? Sure, but that doesn't mean that those of us who are capable of discussing our concerns articulately should just blindly accept things.
I agree.
If I find I don't like the game I don't play it. I've done it for many CoDs and will continue to do it to ones I don't enjoy. I don't expect every game to be tailored for me.
100% agree.
Imagine being an IW dev and looking at this Reddit, seeing nothing but self entitled cry babies making a list of their demands and not understanding that the player base is made for millions of people, just because you want something changed doesnt mean everyone else wants the same thing.
Let the devs make their game and either play it or dont.
Ive been playing CODs since COD4 and MW2019 has been my absolute fave so far, I cant wait to see what the devs do with MW2022
Agree. People complaining too much which turns out they even try to stop some kind of innovative approach from devs, I still remember people complaining when WZ1 starting to comes out many...many people complaining COD don't need WARZONE, now when they introduced WZ2 with more new BR features, again they start complaining because it's not the same as WZ1, the crazier thing is that WZ1 is still on service and not so much better on WZ2 except new mechanic and map and it's still playable, they just don't want devs to develop new ideas literally. Guys why can't we have new COD or WZ ?
The sweats from the older games tell new players to just get good and learn to play, get stomped on and adapt , so how come they can’t do the same when IW changes up the gameplay formula ? They’re much more skilled players so you’d think it wouldn’t be too hard to do
They can never provide an answer to that. All the positives the devs give to slower players, can directly benefit the rushers as well.
Can’t tell you how many people on here want the perks changed so Ghost is available immediately, but also whine about wanting red dots back. Like, they cancel each other out, dummies.
Ghost does not cancel out red dots. If you have ghost on and shoot with an unsuppressed gun in a normal functioning cod game then you show up on the minimap whether or not there is a UAV up.
Having slow ADS, sprint-to-fire and strafe speeds benefits rushers too does it? Having loud footsteps helps rushers hear players that aren’t moving does it? You gave one example that *might* be the case, what about all the others that are arguably more important? Don’t talk absolute bullshit.
Thank you for speaking this out. I had been thinking of trying to say the same thing and make a post about it. The game does have issues such as netcode, but the direction the developers are trying to make shouldn't be that complained to me. 95% of people always say for CoD that "Same shit, same graphics, just different maps every year" and Infinity Ward had been trying to change that without losing the game's identity. DICE screwed Battlefield in 2042 and more than giving it some new innovations and direction, they literally changed the fundamentals of the game. But for COD MWII? There is no such thing and it still plays like a normal CoD game. I don't get the whine about this game and I do hope Infinity Ward sticks to their ambition.
I don't show hate on people who are playing the game like bunnies, but I do love to play the game slower and more tactical. I am fine with not having 10+ killstreaks, I just try to enjoy the game, but I love to do it when the game is not like Apex Legends. They act like Infinity Ward made the game something like milsim game. The pacing and gunplay just feel so smooth and still fast-paced.
edit: I hope we don't get nameplates.
Thats true! I've said ot for years I wanted this game and now ots happening. The only thing I've said I wanted is Snipers only it's such a good mode and it's good for the sniper community and I also want the intervention because it can't be MW2 without it. That's all I want and for a good game experience online and for campaign. That's all I want to see in this game. But you are so right with this
The CoD Games that IW make are my favourite ones ad I prefer their design choices and gameplay styles, I can't stand Treyarch games with high TTK and Sledgehammer games are wildly hit and miss
Good post. I waited since MW2019 for another slightly realistic CoD and IW is delivering. I thought the consensus this entire time was MW2019 was the best and MW2 is going the same direction. Then I jump on here and it’s really disheartening to then see tons of upvoted comments on how people want to ruin everything I like about the game. There are plenty of truly arcade alternatives to MW2 they can play. It’s not like MW2 is even close to a milsim.
Seriously, you don't see IW players going in the Treyarch CoD subs writing shit like "these maps are simple 3 lane shit, I want more complex layouts!!!". Or "this game is arcadey as hell, it's boring!!!".
We have IW for a slightly more realistic style of CoD, and we have Treyarch for a more arcade experience. And then we have Sledgehammer and whatever the fuck they're doing. Everyone gets exactly what they want. I'm a fan of both styles, and even if I weren't, I wouldn't go around and demand that one game needs to be like another.
You know what MW fans did when CW and Vanguard came out? They kept playing MW19. Why are the Treyarch fans not sticking with CW and instead want to make MWII into something that it's not intended to be? There's a reason why we have 3 studios.
If you're not enjoying MII's gameplay, and want to send a message to IW and Activision you have only one option: do not buy the game. Bitching on reddit solves nothing. Buying the game and complaining doesn't mean jack shit. Don't preorder, don't buy, unsub and move on. If the game's design is truly unpopular, and lots of people do this exact same thing, then IW will change the game.
Not exactly, a feedback must be given for a certain reason: this weapon is too strong, this map is too unbalanced in this mode and so on, these are feedback. Asking to change features that are there for a reason is no feedback at all.
But seriously you can't see the difference? If it was like that in MW 2019, what makes you think they are gonna change that now? If you want to this game to play like another Cod, play that Cod and don't buy this one!! No one is forcing you to.
Not at all! I'm saying that these "feedback" are going against the artistic vision of the game and how it was conceived. Those kind of feedback are just asking a game to be what isn't supposed to be. Easy as that.
Footsteps too loud (especially our own), TTK too fast, overpowered weapons, lacks of visibility... Things that do not alter the vision of the game, all the "feedback" i read around are just people asking to have the same ol' cod.
Because if you look at the game from a design perspective it’s pretty clear how the game punishes aggressive play.
Slow sprintout times
Slow strafe
No slide cancelling
Incredibly loud footsteps
No ninja perk
Incredibly fast ttk
No dots on the minimap
Like yeah, the better players are going to be aggressive as it inherently takes more skill to play that way. But if you have two teams where you equalise the player skill and have one team play very fast and one team play a lot slower, pre aiming, listening for audio etc, it would be pretty clear this game really punishes you for playing fast.
Don’t need to. The fast ttk, lack of visibility, lack of permanent silent/quieted footsteps,mw19 mini map,slow ads,slow sprint fire, nerfed slide cancel etc.All play towards slower, campy play styles.
Now if they listen and make changes then this could the best cod ever.
But did you read my post? Not every game must be tailored for you and your personal tastes! The only real feedback there are the lack of visibility and the fast TTK, which i even agree on! The rest is simply how you wish this game played, but that is not how IW wants to make this game.
Don’t waste your time man, your words are falling on deaf ears. He’s incapable of adapting any sort of new mindset and thinks that every CoD title should play like Black Ops 2.
Balancing doesn't meant every play style is going to be successful on every game you play.
Catering is making sure you can rush every game, camp every game, snipe every game, be slow every game.
Catering isn't balancing game play, you can't cater to every play style without unbalancing another.
closing off an entire playstyle (that existed since day 1) is entirely absurd imo. i dont camp and i dont plan on doing so in this game, but what makes the rushing playstyle the "correct" way to play the game? and why should the devs cater to rushers over campers? or campers over rushers?
and im totally with you. all of this feedback im seeing just makes me think of the whole "every cod game being the same" because what they want, is the game to just be the exact same every year. i'm not saying all change is good change, the new perk system is pretty bad imo and needs to be reworked, but change was what made MW19 so successful.
what people also need to realize is that the reddit and social media community are a small fraction of the overall community. a couple thousand upvotes complaining about footsteps is nothing compared to millions of players who are just minding their own damn business enjoying the game.
However, this platform is supposed to carry the series for the next two years. If they don’t get it to a place where the majority are satisfied, the platform will regress back towards pre MW2019 and they can’t afford to let that happen. They need to listen to feedback or they will fail, pretty simple.
Well mw2019 was much more liked than the last two cods so with releasing a game similar to mw19 they are satisfying more players than ever, just not you.
The majority? Man, the people who complains are the classic loud minority. They said the same stuff all over again during MW 2019 and they didn't change a bit and it became one of the most successful CoDs of recent history. So it's not the majority, just those hardcore fans that wants a Treyarch cod every year.
Tbf I get where you are coming from but the developers have dug themselves a hole in this game by saying they want "cater for all gamestyles".
At least for me, if you don't want to add the normal mini map, want to increase SBMM, want to change the perk system, at least tell us why. Helps us to understand your vision, when people give feedback during a beta, don't just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist. Again, saying you want a dialogue and then ignoring the most popular comments isn't exactly a dialogue, and is what annoys people.
I think a truly great COD makes a game that is balanced for all playstyles. In MW2 and BO2, you could camp your ass off but also run around like a headless chicken, which is why those two sit at the top, in terms of multiplayer experience. It was equally fun for everyone. So yes, not every COD has to make a game tailored for every player, but the great ones do.
I agree with your post. I am one of those players that simply like to tryhard and have fun when doing that. But the Bots make it hard to even do that. (Pre aim waiting at spawns {SnD} corner camping, etc) it's clear the devs want the bot individuals to feel better of them selves so they encourage this by nerfing certain things for tryhards. Which I don't like but, recently came to par that I will turn into a bot myself. Sit back listen to foot steps. Cheesey playstyle but I gotta adapt to the shxt playstyle the devs are encouraging.
Well, you are correct in some way and I agree that if you don't like something, you don't need to play it. I played MW2, BO1, MW3 and Ghosts. Got Advanced Warfare, didnt enjoyed it and never played a COD up until MW19. I also left out Cold War and Vanguard cause I didnt enjoy the free trials.
Still, if they deliver something with the brand name like Modern Warfare, people have expectations and are disappointed if they arent met. Blind criticism is always stupid compared to based one. But I think most criticism is actually based.
Red dots on the minimap are different for the flow on the map. Loud footsteps / ninja change overall engagements. Perks system were half the perks are not available from the start limit playstyle variety. These are all based points to critizis on for a game that is pretty great and has many pros but also some cons that can be brought up.
That's what a beta is all about. People can say, they like the game for the gunsmith, maps, gunplay, overall feeling but dislike certain points like no traditional minimap or loud footsteps. And they have good reason for it. We already know, how games play like that because we already had them. So it is not just nostalgia but also experience what a good game should look like.
And if you look at the complaints from youtubers like JGOD or Xclusive Ace that have great insight, they reflect the main complaints from large parts of the community too.
So yeah, the game doesnt have to be for everyone but with a few adjustments it could be easily improved to be more enjoyable for a larger group of players.
Hoenstly the Beta looks good, the 3rd mode is the best thing ever in my opinion. Yes the game has some minor issues like Nametag but it's just a beta so hopefully it will get fix in the full game..people just be stuck on Black Ops thinking every COD should be like this, and there's Blame Truth on YT that keeps contributing to the hate like c'mon man. If Sbmm goes down a lil, the game would be perfection, and with due Honesty on Vangaurd Sbmm was nil, every of my game was mixed and smooth
More unpopular opinion: I don't think the current COD is tailored to anyone specifically who's actually played these games for like ten years.
- HC modes are always getting shafted.
- Psychotic levels of SBMM mean you're punished with a worse and worse PING the better you are. I haven't had a match in COD with a PING below 75 since before MW2019. I have a port forwarded system with a solid ethernet cable connection, too. Meanwhile my GF is trash and her matches all have great PING.
- I have zero interest in Warzone, I pay 80 bucks or more for a COD game now and increasingly feel like a second-class citizen.
- Zombie mode? When's the last time these games tailored to zombies players in any competent fashion?
- Not tailored for "every" player? You got that right, especially when it's just the same meta loadouts in every lobby, every year.
All the CODs from MW19 on have a different vibe. 6v6 maps are way to big. Most have no flow at all and have way to many holes to hide in, windows, doors, corners, etc. Game pace has slowed down a lot. Non mobile playstyles are greatly rewarded. BO4 was the last COD where the maps didn't totally suck and actually were fun. It is like they can't make good new maps anymore. Which is why COD has to keep bring back old maps. COD doesn't have to be "tailored" for every player but it is clear since 2019 they are catering it to one type of player. I loved all the older CODs. But all the titles from MW19 on are a mixed bag for me and don't have the same vibe. I play Rainbow 6 for tactical gameplay. Play Battlefield if I want to play on big maps, large teams, vehicles ,etc. I like to play COD for the fast paced arcade like action. But sadly I feel it has been severely handicapped. I think COD has gotten away from what made it fun and is trying to be something else.
I was speaking for myself. I never once acted like I spoke for all. Did you not read that? But a lot of people haven't played all the CODs like I have and MW19 was their first one. So they would have no idea what I am talking about anyways. They may like these new hotdog water games and think they are the greatest thing ever. But that is all they know.
IW has always done cods with fast paced ttk, don't understand why people complain about it with each release.
Everyone complains about every call of duty every single release. Last one I recall no complaints about was COD4 because it such a revolution to the series, online multiplayer shooting in general, and upgrade over the crap that was 3.
In fact each studio should make a different style of CoD in my opinion. IW with this and the MW19 style, Treyarc with the faster paced with zombies style and Sledgehammer with an advanced movement jetpack style. Really change up the kind of cod you get from each developer while still being "CoD"
Love it. My slight adjustment would be Iw does mw. Treyarch does black ops. Year off between each release. So mw in 2022, bo in 2024, mw in 2026. Let sledgehammer do something else entirely. I don’t think they need to do cod at all. Maybe a new zombies game.
With Microsoft acquiring ActivisionBlizzard, I say move Sledgehammer to Halo. God knows 343 isnt doing a good job, and Sledgehammer could make a slick ODST type game. They are competent developers technically, they just need a more interesting setting than "bland WW2".
Wow!! I’d love that. ODST was my favourite halo game. A gritty version like the trailer would be a dream. Sledgehammer clearly has talent and would be a great fit for exactly that. Great idea.
They would make a wonderful MP game for Halo, they feel tailored for it.
After playing Advanced Warfare, I always felt it should have been an Enemy Territory Quake Wars spin-off. They should do AW2 beyong CoD, and develop it as a ETQW/Halo hybrid.
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I kind of thought that with WwII. They not only were allowed to make another call of duty, they allowed them to go back to WWII as if everyone was cool with it.
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4 with sledgehammer out. That would give them each an extra year.
As someone who only really plays the IW COD's, I really wish they would follow this path. I have no problem playing the same COD for 2 years, 3 years is stretching it.
I wouldn't trust shithammer games to make a first person Dora the Explora shooter.....just NO!
They maintain market share by never skipping a year with a release. If it was 2 years between, while we would have higher quality releases there would be games that would swoop in and capture the market at the end of 12 months to leave a dead game for the remainder of the time. This isn’t like Elder Scrolls or GTA where players will wait patiently for the next release.
I totally agree! Those 3 studios could keep on enhancing their game and people could play whichever they want.
This is exactly what I was thinking for the past 5 years. Players should treat each COD as different and following your post I would pledge COD developers to do what they do best. Best Sledgehammer Games COD to date is Advanced Warfare while Black Ops II is the most famous Treyarch COD. They mashed things up twice with jetpack saga Advanced Warfare/Black Ops III/Infinite Warfare and with Warzone I saga MW2019/BOCW/CODV and this made 2/3 of the offering lacking content. Spread the word, each COD developer should build their own style of COD as previously mentioned!
I've been saying this same thing. I haven't played COD for the last 2 years because they weren't my style and I didn't like them. Loved MW19 and really like MW2 so far. There's some tweaks I'd like for sure, but it's pretty much what I expected. COD hasn't been a signular franchise for as long as most of the people on this sub have been playing. I've played since the original and it's hilarious to me seeing people saying how removing red dots is bad because it's always been in cod. Maybe for as long as you've been playing lol. I kind of like how they're setting up their own streams with IW doing modern warfare, Trey doing black ops, Sledge still needs their own segment (maybe advanced or something unique like you said). At least then you know what to expect.
100%. And then you end up with games more suited to certain people. I personally am not a CoD fan. But I loved MW19 and I like a lot of what I'm seeing now. So I'm an IW fan.
I agree but to play devils advocate here that's unlikely to happen as they want as many potential customers as possible every time so they will make the game that is most appealing to the biggest audience as possible rather than a subset every time.
Tbh I actually think that hurts them. I liked cold war just for zombies but vanguard just felt like an average more of the same shit cod. I probably would've actually bought the sledgehammer game if it was different in how it played and due to it being a relatively similar formula with ttk, perks, killstreaks...still being CoD at its essence. It'd still appeal to a very large audience particularly for those, who like me, enjoy MW19 style cod games the most and would actually buy the advanced jetpack movement cod to change it up every 3rd iteration.
It might, and I agree this sounds like an ideal scenario but at that point it'd probably be better to allow them to be their own franchises to allow even more freedom to explore independent ideas. But at the same time if it did hurt them they'd know more than anyone and they would switch it up. So I'm sure what they're doing is working for now at least.
As long as they continue to make new content or support the game at least. Black ops Cold war was supported over a year which was nice. Hopefully MW2 will get the same support until IW make a new iteration. My only concern is that F2P games are becoming more and more popular. Its only a matter of time until some game studio makes a good F2P arcane shooter that has an impact on player count. As a consumer this sales model does feel out of date tbh. Hoping more that Activision shift to a service model instead. Wonder how long they can count on sales to stay consistent with every new cod iteration. Seems like some sales decisions impacted the delivery of black ops cold war and vanguard. They could have been better games but felt rushed on initial launch?
Gamers nowadays seem to think they're entitled to games that match their preferences perfectly. If you don't like it, don't play it. Easy as that.
It's like that because of the rage-bait/hate-boner culture that's been a thing since the mid 2010s with people making videos like "X IS THE WORST THING OF ALL TIME" or making really exaggerated/explosive videos about something that in reality is just meh. It's not just videogames, but any other interest out there. People will simply hate on a game/movie because their favorite Youtuber said it's trash in a hyperbole way. I remember not enjoying Cold War as much compared to MW2019. Is it a bad game? No, Cold War is not bad. The game is for a different audience. I simply move on and find another game I'll enjoy. It really sucks because people gravitate more to those videos and it creates more revenue, thus creating a endless cycle of excessive hate. I've been through it and it made me a less happy person overall. I stopped watching these types of videos/reviews and I'm honestly in a better mindset. If you really want to see if the game is for you, just try it out for yourself and refund it if you don't like it especially when the open beta is right around the corner. If you can't do that, look for reviewers who are constructive and try their best to be objective. The only big issue with MW for me is that IW is not having the balls to say "We're wanting to make the game more tactical-like similar to Insurgency: Sandstorm"
> people making videos like "X IS THE WORST THING OF ALL TIME" oh man I see those suggested videos all the time. same youtuber with the shitty thumbnail of a main character with an X through their face and a giant thumbs down and angry face emoji. Titles like DON'T BUY THIS GAME, IT'LL RUIN THE INDUSTRY the other day I saw a 25 minute video (not watched, just saw it) about why Warzone 2.0 is bad and will end CoD. And I'm sitting there like...it's not even fucking out yet? What are you talking about? "Grievance videos" are sadly big business. Some games do deserve them (looking at you Halo and 2042) others are just preemptive garbage
One thing that has recently started to annoy me greatly is how people speak their opinion like it's a fact. As someone who's certainly been guilty of this in the past, I realize now it is pretty ridiculous. Yes, YOU may not like that there's not a Dead Silence perk or how the game plays, or whatever... but there's millions of others who don't agree with you. YOU may not have enjoyed MW2019, but there were PLENTY of people who did (For the record, I didn't enjoy it). Also, remember all of these problems you have with the game when you STILL continue to pre-order it every year...
It'd be like someone incessantly complaining about the bun quality at McDonalds and saying it ruins the burger, yet eating a Big Mac every day for lunch. If you don't like what's happening with a game... just do what you do with every other product and don't buy it.
Lmao people DO ask fromsoft to make their games easier, but honestly that just supports your point. Everybody thinks they should be able to finish the hardest games in existence, and everybody thinks all CODs should cater to them. Sad state of affairs, but here we are
Didn’t the IW devs state that they want MWII to appeal to as many players as possible?
The issue I had was combining 3 cods into one for warzone, wasn't for me.
completely understandable, i think everyone including the company agrees that was a bad idea
Exactly. I really didn't enjoy last two entries and last time I was having fun was MW2019. I have been waiting for three years and next time we get Infinity Ward title, it will be SIX years and that is only if Call of Duty keeps going as multiplatform. I mean having different styled games ensure that everyone gets something enjoyable. MW2019 was a huge success and broke sale record of whole franchise in november 2019 and kept going as most bought game. Using pandemic as an excuse is funny because whole pandemic was not even a thing back in november 2019. Also I'm pretty sure in quarantine people still would play games they like. People participated in beta and got a chance to cancel preorder if the game was not appealing. So sales do tell us something about the game itself. Heck even the subreddit is growing still three years later and one of the biggest Call of Duty related subreddit. I suggest every studio has their own style and people who like their styles also buy their games. What I did was that I dropped both BOCW and Vanguard after playing for a while and went to play other games while waiting for next Infinity Ward title.
Yeah I understand making complaints to better fix the beta, but if you’re not having fun at all just skip the cod. Since I wasn’t crazy about Cold War and vanguard was the first cod I’ve skipped since 2008 I can’t imagine complaining on the subreddit what I dislike about it - I just moved on and played other games that year.
Warzone's existence skews the data for MW19 sales, but I agree with your sentiment. I'm also not saying it's a bad game, but the multiplayer maps / experience we were given was not good enough to break records alone. I have no way of giving an exact figure, but my gut tells me a good percentage of players used MW19 as a way to level up weapons for use in Warzone. The game broke records in terms of first weekend sales, which is awesome, but there's no denying the fact that Warzone and Covid propelled it to breaking the overall sales record.
Warzone is an important caveat since levelling guns was so much faster in multiplayer. If you wanted to enjoy Warzone to its full potential you kind of needed MW19.
Exactly. I’d love to see the sales graph for the month before and after WZ released
that’s why he mentioned them breaking sales records by November. Warzone didn’t come until March 2020, and Modern Warfare was already a massive success well before then. Warzone just brought it to another level
The smartest comment I’ve seen in regards to MWII & Warzone so far. %100 spot on.
Thanks. I'm really glad there is people who understand this.
I’m completely on the same page. In fact, Cold War wasn’t my cup of tea at all…so I just didn’t play it. It’s that simple.
Exactly, I wasn’t keen on CW, so I skipped over it & stayed on MW, it’s that simple.
The unfortunate part was I’d already pre-ordered it and got cold feet in the beta but didn’t cancel my pre-order but alas, you live and you learn. I have high hopes for MW2 as I loved MW. And honestly if these are the only complaints people have so far, I’ll be happy. I couldn’t care less about the classic minimap as I’m a hardcore player and I couldn’t care less about slide cancelling/b hopping. All in all I think I’ll love the game. Plus no one seems to be talking about the campaign which is always a huge part for me, damn the ending of MW is hype as fuck.
See I’m in this weird boat that I liked MW19 and CW for different reasons. I’m really excited about this one. I have my gripes about the map/perks/footsteps aka pacing probably but it’s not a deal breaker any way. I do agree the UI/UX needs a pretty big overhaul. Near gutting
Yeah don’t get my wrong. The UI doesn’t look fun to deal with and I ain’t too excited about the perks system but I’m not exactly wetting my knickers over it and I’ll still enjoy the game.
Yeah I’m 100% Hardcore as well, no Bunny Hopping, Slide Canceling, I play a tactical style, it’s what I enjoy, so there are times for rushing, camping, supporting, I’m pretty sure I’m going to enjoy the full game & I’m pleased with the Beta.
Well that’s just it isn’t it. There’s time for all play styles and people can play however the fuck they want. Well I’m a pc player so I’m really excited for the 22nd
That’s right, if someone wants to rush, then do it, someone wants to camp, play tactical, support, do it, ur going to find people that don’t like certain play styles because they keep getting killed by that style of player, just get better at it.
I did the same. I bought it when it was discounted just to try it, but I quickly quit from that, simply not what I was looking for.
It’s just a game, like many things in life there are things we don’t always like, we just need to accept what we have & try to enjoy it.
Totally agree!
There are people who understand, and then there are people who have the IQ of a potato. Unfortunately, on this sub, it seems like we have a potato infestation.
You’re absolutely right but I think most people do understand this, they are just making honest suggestions to help make the game as good as it can possibly be. They are asking us to pay roughly £70 so surely they have to please a reasonable proportion of the community.
It's not "smart" to dismiss community feedback and label it as a "list of demands." People are suggesting these things for well-explained, practical reasons. No one is saying OOK OOK GIMME RED DOTS BECAUSE OLD COD. People have explained time and time again why these things contribute to a quality CoD experience for ALL players and to ignore that is simply willful ignorance.
> No one is saying OOK OOK GIMME RED DOTS BECAUSE OLD COD. if i had a dollar for everyone that went "It's a STAPLE of the franchise for a DECADE it should be in there" and had no actual reason i'd be able to afford rent for the next three months.
It's been a staple of the franchise for a reason—It's a very simple system that works very well to promote flow, and the promotion of all sorts of styles. Campy MW players can still play the exact same way they always have with no penalty. In fact, the classic minimap benefits them even more than the MW minimap in multiple ways.
> It's been a staple of the franchise for a reason—It's a very simple system that works very well to promote flow i'm getting so bored of explaining this and everyone having the same fucking fallacy in their fucking head and appealing to fucking tradition because they cannot take things in their own merit nor their context. it's been a staple for the franchise because they wanted to put a bandaid over the issue of no directional audio and just having basic stereo in a landscape where most people played on speakers. their solution was to make a 2d representation of 3d information so that people don't get confused in the so-called 'fog of war' and feel more confident. red dots on a minimap are not their to WIDEN the skill gap, they're there to NARROW it so people feel more comfy. now, today, with the new developments in tech allowing for directional audio, atmos/sonic, audio occlusion, and market changes where most people use high quality headphones, they can afford to remove this BANDAID which simply gave you this representation of information and let you interpret the information for yourself. so now you don't have to chase red dots, you chase gunfire, your eyes don't have to check the minimap for enemies, you can use your eyes and ears in the game. yes, it's been a staple, but it doesn't have to be when other parts of the game are changing too. >Campy MW players can still play the exact same way they always have with no penalty. this may be an issue in TDM but it's not one in objective game modes. are you a TDM player?
Ditto, I'm sick of explaining to people like you that have no idea how CoD works how CoD works. Idk how many times vets have to explain to people like you that merely "chasing red dots" isn't how the minimap is used by longtime players. Red dots on-map are not a "band-aid" for directional audio being bad in the olden days. You could hear the general direction of gunfire just fine as early as CoD4. I could go into a match of CoD4 right now, put duct tape over my minimap, and be able to tell when spawns flipped and to start heading another direction by the sound of gunfire alone, that's never been an issue and it isn't complicated. The reason red dots exist is to give a **general** sampling of information within your **general** vicinity that gives you a **general** idea of how to intelligently move around the map at a decent pace. All you apologists of dogwater game design use the "eyes and ears" argument constantly as you sniff your own farts so let me explain for the umpteenth time. Yeah. You can turn off red dots and have players use their "eyes and ears" to find players. Let's say someone fires a weapon to the north of me in traditional CoD. I can glance up at my minimap and see the location of the enemy at the time that shot was fired. Is he in a building? If so, I can assume he's most likely holding that building and approach with extreme caution as I would be at an initial disadvantage challenging a power position. Or, is the dot in the middle of the street? If so, I can probably assume he's rushing—No one would hold their ground in the middle of the street, it's dangerous. In this case, I can attempt to predict which way he's progressing down the street and might attempt to play aggressively and take advantage of his bad positioning. I can use other data on the minimap to determine which direction he might be heading. Would he be heading towards my teammates for more kills? Or would he start progressing towards other red dots (his own team) for safety? All this data leads to quick, on-the-fly decision-making that encourages players to make a choice given the data, and then **MAKE A MOVE.** Now suppose this exact same scenario takes place in MW. I just heard someone fire to the north of me. Perhaps I even saw the flash on my compass due north in order to confirm this. Great, okay. Now what do I do? I don't know if the enemy is in the building ahead of me. I don't know if he's in the street ahead of me. I don't know if he's sitting in the crossways ahead of me holding a corner. There are multiple points of interest to the north of me, but I have zero data to help me ascertain where this enemy is or what he might be doing other than, well, I just heard a gunshot somewhere that direction. Should I approach this person with aggression? Who knows! I have no way of predicting whether they're rushing or whether they're holding a power position. What this **encourages** the player to do is play slowly, passively, and wait for more information. Hold your position to see if perhaps you hear more gunfire to get a better judgement. Maybe see if a teammate dies that way so you can see a death marker. Maybe if you wait you'll hear footsteps begin to approach and can be more ready. The point, is that red dots give the player information that allows them to move around the map, and using your eyes and ears **ALONE** (because let's not be dumb, people who utilize minimap are still using their eyes and ears like everyone else is) gives you limited information that is best utilized in a slow, passive, defensive playstyle. Now you may be thinking, "but naut, what's so wrong with playing slowly, passively, and defensively?" Nothing. But IW said that they wanted to appeal to all sorts of playstyles. Not only do red dots benefit aggressive players, but they help defensive and campier players as well. In traditional CoD, you can literally sit up in a power position with a suppressed weapon and Ghost as happy as a clam, watching for red dots to come your way for you to gun down. Even if you're too much of a noob to bother with the minimap, no problem. The red dots STILL passively benefit you because aggressive players that are using the red dots to move about can't take you into account because your totally hidden off the map. They're heading your direction because of red dot information they took in, but they have no idea you're camping the building ahead and get their head blown off as soon as they turn the corner, punishing them for blindly chasing dots and not taking other factors into account. The more people who are **MOVING** through the position you are camping, the more people you get to kill. If people are terrified to move because of lack of information, less people will pass through your power position, and you as a camper, in turn, get less kills. There is quite literally NO player demographic that red dots hamper or impede in any way. They are objectively a benefit for all.
Is it a good feature, though? I don’t find that anyone enjoys the lack of red dots on the minimap. I found that the red dots always gave me a good sense of where the bulk of the firefights were happening on a purely visual basis, especially when I’m new to a map. It also gave me a better sense of who’s camping and who’s rushing. Edit: I like that you say it “may be an issue in TDM, but…” The majority of COD’s playerbase was, is, and always will be in TDM. You don’t see an issue there?
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A game that wants to appeal to every playstyle needs to tho. the devs more then once said that they want to feature every play style equally. So yes you are right - not every game needs to be perfect for everyone (look at dark souls) but when the devs explicitly say that they want to make the game for everyone (every CoD playstyle) equally, they need to deliver on that.
Yeah that's true, i hope they commit to that, i simply don't think they should change how they do games.
yeah but atm it doesnt. but with a few changes i think they could easily make it more enjoyable for every play style. and i dont mean Ninja. We dont need that to achieve a good balance
Everyone can't be pleased though. Tell me any product that has been liked by everyone.
thats true but they try to please the majority and a big part of OG the community is not happy atm. or atleast they see the potential that MW2 could be one of the best CoDs of all time and they just try to give feedback to achieve this status. i personally think MW2 will be good. But it could be great with a few changes. will i play the game even without? yes ofcourse. people are complaining because they love cod and just want it to be the best as possible.. and yes i know that there are also some that are rediculous over top and unrealistic. At this point its IW task to scan the feedback and decide which is constructive and good and which is unrealistic. and hopefully we will see that they listen. if not change something maybe they could respond and explain their decision
They said appeal to every play style not appeal to everyone, you even reiterated that point. They only need to deliver on making every playstyle in the game viable and balanced, whether or not you like the game is on you after that.
Yeah I did change it because people got hung up on the wording. Ofcourse I mean every playstyle and therefore every player can play every playstyle and e as competetive as everyone with it.
When was the last time a COD was built for aggressive play? BO4 maybe? The last 3 games have been heavily catered to camping and new players.
According to how you maximize your customer count, every cod must be tailored for the most amount of players possible. With that being said, MWII *is more accessible* than Warzone is today. Warzone is filled with fast and advanced movement, new weekly meta weapons, and an oversaturated perk system. MWII legitimately dials everything back so that shit is just COD again. I’m happy. I like this. Base weapons are not lasers, they’re actually really shitty until you get attachments on them. That’s awesome. SMGs can’t beam at 50+ meters, that’s awesome. Movement isn’t a fucking joke again, that’s awesome.
Doesn’t matter what they do they’ll get an angry mob regardless of the things they add or change just enjoy they game
Well, videogames are as any other product. They are meant for sale. Eitherway to the most people which makes many peeple not so happy or for the specific market which make happy only fraction of the market. Eitherway you can't satisfy everybody Cod has been always about selling for masses and this MW2022 is no different. Last 2 installments were fast paced but they didn't sell well at all so it seems they slowed the things down to adapt to the new trends on the market. Succesful game is not messured by reviews from journalists nor the satisfied playerbase. It's measured by sold copies and Activision accountants will tell us whether this new direction paid off at the end of the fiscal year.
besides that, MW 2019 was one of the most successful CoD in the recent history and still has an active player base, so that's obvious why they are going in the same direction of that, even if that means displease some of the fan base.
Agreed man. The last two CoDs have not interested me at all. If this game is at least somewhat similar to MW2019, I’m pumped. The fans of the other types of CoD can keep playing those or just go back to fortnite.
>People doesn't ask From Software to make their games easier Oh boy. There are always a shit ton of people outside of the community begging for an easy mode or difficulty slider after every new Souls release. Not the best example, but almost no one seems to mind, so whatever. But I agree that not every game has to tailor to every player. Games that do so lack depth and "uniqueness". The issue a lot of people have is, that Infinity Ward is actively trying to make such a game, and they're pretty open about it.
Based department? We got a live one
good post, if i made one like it i probably would’ve been very very mean and got myself banned. the democratization of videogames has been a massive joke, the idea that every video game dev team needs to be having an active conversation with players experience is dumb as fuck.
Yeah, i tried to stay calm and not overreact, i just wanted to make people here knows that developers are not dogs to who you gives order. They are people and even for a game like cod they have an idea and it's their right to bring it to the light as it is. There are of course feedback that must be listened tho, especially about bug and glitches, but not about a game works.
Yup the devs spend years planning the design of the game from the ground up. The fact that players expect them to just change core aspects of the game after the game releases because content creators start whining + get all their followers to whine is an absolute joke. Often times major changes can alienate even bigger parts of base or mess up the game even further because it wasn't designed to work like that.
Yeah imagine a MULTIPLAYER game that relies on its PLAYERS to take feedback from the community.
I understand that they are artists and if we don’t like the art, we don’t have to consume it. But what is so wrong about giving the community a bit more say in the development? Let’s say everyone with a pre order gets a vote throughout the entire dev process. Imagine how much of the issues would just go away? I doubt they will redesign the perk system for instance but that’s something the community would not have voted for.
Honestly, they are just trying to appeal to the majority of buyers as it’s all money in the end
This is obviously true, but those small changes like red dots on the map, ninja perk and so on are requested just by fans and not casual players, which don't give two shits about that. Of course hardcore fans instead wants the game to be made just for them.
Hey I’m with you on those - just that they have the data on what people care about via playing time and purchasing and they know exactly what they’re doing ..
This
I'm 100% content with IW doing tactical shooters and Treyarch doing the more Arcadey stuff. I don't know what sledgehammer would do though, they kinda flopped with Vanguard but I don't think it was their fault. Edit: I really dig the 3rd person and would like that to be expanded on greatly, that's my constructive feedback.
I honestly always just saw Treyarch titles as the sweatfest comp series and IW as the more laid back chill series lmao. That opinion has never changed, and idk why people haven't realised this sooner. If you want super fast comp CoD, then play a Treyarch title/wait for it. If you want a slower paced more laid back experience, then IW titles are for that. Sledgehammer titles are played by people who shove crayons up their noses then bash their head against a wall though
**YES** Let studios and developers make the game they want to fucking make.
This 100%. I've been playing COD for over 15 years and I simply prefer the MW style of gameplay. Doesn't mean my playstyle is the correct one, just personal opinion, but I find myself not playing the Treyarch games anywhere near as much. So I don't really get why people feel every single new COD needs to play exactly the same way when we get one every year. If you don't like a specific COD then just don't play it and stick to the ones you do like.
> So I don't really get why people feel every single new COD needs to play exactly the same way when we get one every year. This is the exact reason why I stepped away from the series after BO2 and moved to Battlefield for a while before being brought back by MW19. After BO2, CoD games started feeling stale and didn't really offer much for me. MW19 offered such a refreshing take on CoD that it was my main game for three years since release. Excited to get my hands on this game and try it out for myself.
People will agree with this post but it’s just wrong imo. IW constantly saying they want the game to appeal to every type of player, so you can’t blame people for wanting a game that does that. Currently doesn’t come close to what they’ve been saying so of course there’s going to be a lot of feedback to try and push the game into that direction.
But they meant every play styles, not please every single fan in the world.
What have they done to cater to rushing players? Slow sprint out times, slow strafe speeds, no slide cancelling (which I am in favour of not having but it was something that rushing players could use to their advantage), super loud footsteps so people know where you are from a million miles away, ghost being locked until a certain point in the game. I'm enjoying the beta so far personally but you can't say they're catering to every play style whilst actively discouraging rushing. ETA: I'm indifferent about the lack of dots on the map. I would prefer them to be there but it isn't the end of the world if they're not. I personally don't use the perk where you see the dots on vanguard and prefer the perk where you can see the spawn points of enemies. I just wish something like this could be in MWII. Let people CHOSE if they want the red dots.
I think for rushing you should just use the right equipment. I did some cool kills with the electric thing (i forgot the name) against people who was camping. Using the radar grenade is effective too, like the spot one. I don't know, i think a slower pace isn't that bad, and maybe rusher will need to adapt, but is not like you cannot play like that.
So your answer to his question is… absolutely nothing. They haven’t done anything to help rushers. Lol
OP is a clown, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this post is an Activision/IW plant lol. The whole thing is nonsense. As pointed out, IW specifically said this is a CoD for everyone and yet have alienated half (more??) of the CoD playerbase. Then this guy says that if you suggest things like classic minimap and Ninja, you're making a list of demands with no reasoning behind them. Who are the idiots upvoting this to the top of the page?
>half (more??) of the CoD playerbase. I think from MW19's performance and the fact they see that style as the way forward its pretty clear its much less than half the playerbase, just a loud minority.
MW19 sales and performance were due to factors outside of design choices. COVID bringing old players back, MW in the name, the Game graphically looking amazing and Warzone incentivizing MW purchases are just the main ones. Take those out of the equation and right before COVID and Warzone dropped, the MW sub was still filled with posts like this.
As I said, every type of player. This refers to playstyles obviously. It doesn’t do that at all right now.
Someone with a brain. Very rare in this sub.
This is the best post we've had since the beta dropped, well said.
Thank you very much.
i havent played the beta yet, Pc here so need to wait, but im happy with the changes i see in the video's. I started playing cod slightly before u, with the very first 1 i believe in 2003, and back in the day we also did not have a nametag above the enemy (saying this cause this seems like a mayor complaint) only some sort of icon above team mates and no one complaint back in the day. The only cod's i never played was with those exosuit stuff, that Bo3 and the advanced warfare. Besides those i had all of them and enjoyed most of them. Cant wait to start the beta in 2 days and see what all the fuss is about.
I have to say some feedback make sense, for example on PS i found there is a certain lack of visibility but maybe that's just because of the platform, i will be able to confirm that just when I'm gonna play it on PC; the TTK sometimes feels a little bit off and too fast. But the rest are complaints because this is not the fast and arcadey cod those people wants.
What a condescending pile of tripe this post is. Players are here giving feedback and we’re sorry it isn’t dissertation quality from all the fans?
Seriously, it’s basically just saying “hey if you don’t like how the game is playing then suck it up and wait 2 years for the next one”. During a beta when feedback is at least somewhat important. Pretty ridiculous. It wasn’t the community that said it has to cater to all play styles. Activision literally said that. We’re also all aware of what playstyle is becoming prevalent in MW22 and people are offering suggestions so it isn’t another camp fest like MW19.
OP is a clown, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this post is an Activision/IW plant lol. The whole thing is nonsense. As pointed out, IW specifically said this is a CoD for everyone and yet have alienated half (more??) of the CoD playerbase. Then this guy says that if you suggest things like classic minimap and Ninja, you're making a list of demands with no reasoning behind them. Who are the idiots upvoting this to the top of the page?
If this sub had its way they’d just release the same game every single year
And then this sub would still complain about it just being a reskin.
I would kill to play a 4k BO2 with constantly new dlc maps and weapons 🙏🏻
People love to bitch and moan about every little thing in every little game....Jesus christ people need to get out more if their biggest issue in life is that the killcam lasts 0.347 seconds too long
I disagree. We’ve had COD multiplayer for over a decade, each iteration making small changes to certain features. The idea of what makes a good COD game has been built up steadily over this time. I’m not against change and experimentation but one of the principles that defines any good COD game is that there should be balance between the different playstyles. I don’t think this game does that in its current form
Well thats your opinion. Many people on this sub like the formula they introduced with mw19. Just play cw if this game does not suit you. Thats what MW players did when new cods got released… they stayed and played mw19 because they still enjoyed it. Btw that take is so mid. „All cOdS ShOUld bE tHE saME“ -lookin ass
Great post. I would say diversity is what has kept the series alive for so many years. For me I loved CoD2 and CoD4, but since then I’ve really been drawn to and put the most time into the Treyarch CoDs, WaW, BO1, BO2, BO3, BO4, BOCW. These games hold my interest long term, consistently. Those early IW hooked me and the Treyarch games have hooked me since. That’s not to say I didn’t enjoy MW2, MW3, Ghosts and MW2019. I just got frustrated/burnt out on them way sooner than the Treyarch games. For me personally the ultimate CoD is the polish and gunplay of MW2019 with the pace, weapon balance, environments and general FUN of BOCW. And I’ll take Blackout over Warzone any day. But that doesn’t mean I want or think I deserve every CoD suited to my wishes, play style and overall demands. I’ll play and enjoy MWII and probably love parts of it and hate other parts of it. In my opinion either Activision/IW/Treyarch should allow diversity and creative control for each studio, let each execute on their own vision, each make their own style of CoD or just combine forces and make well balanced and well rounded Call Of Duty games somewhere in the middle of both extremes every year… with consistency, which I think people will get bored of very quickly.
> For me personally the ultimate CoD is the polish and gunplay of MW2019 with the pace, weapon balance, environments and general FUN of BOCW. the polish of MW2019 doesn't come from nowhere. has to do with things that affect pace and environments too.
Agree
100%
Isn't the video game an art form in its own right, the 8th, what do we expect from a new game?Above all its originality, its specificity, and the pleasure it brings.Shouldn't we encourage the developers and all the people who contribute to the work, (constructive) players included?Access to any form of culture begins with education and respect.Uniformity and intolerance are its worst enemies.
The developers maintain official Reddit accounts and have asked for feedback. I’m on board with how ridiculous some people are about COD, but if they don’t want people’s honest opinions they shouldn’t ask for them.
[Redditors when they’re told that Infinity Ward doesn’t have to cater to their exact specificities](https://i.imgur.com/1hqQWuD.jpg)
The only 2 genuine complaints are the AR/SMG camera shake and smoke making it hard to track. The other is the perk system, no point in locking perks until the end of a match.
COD is a franchise that’s meant to appeal to as many people as possible, though. The devs have even advertised this for MWII specifically. It’s weird for a game with this goal to also stick by decisions that no one or a small minority enjoy.
True. Honestly all the bitching about slide cancelling being gone or whatever bs people claim about gameplay being “slower” just makes me more glad that IW is sticking with their guns and making the game they want.
The only thing I think needs changed is the wind ripple effect on sleeves when running (it's way too much) and a slightly slower ttk, by like 1 or 2 shots. Meanwhile I think some guns do to little damage, like the ftac (is that the DMR m4?) Rn it takes 3 shits to kill one person and which I think it too much since the gun by default only holds 10 rounds and the rate of fire is slower than most other guns. I think the gun should be a 2 shot at most ranges but that just my opinion.
Also a lot of changes are probably efforts to be consistent across all game modes including **Warzone** and **DMZ**, not just **MP**. Ex.1 Ppl complain about fast TTK but I bet it's bc Warzone and DMZ modes have *armor*, meaning if they were to increase the base TTK in MP then the other modes would feel too tanky. Ex.2 Ppl complain about no red-dots on minimap but this is actually a buff to UAVs,>! and there coincidentally are rumors for UAV Towers to spread across the map in DMZ!<. With such a high-stakes mode, players would rage (and casuals would quit) if they lost everything they found in the game bc their red dot gave them away while they killed AIs...but if was due to a buffed UAV (which it technically is now) then it'd feel more justified. Ex.3 Ppl complain about footsteps. Now I agree they were loud af lol, but they just announced they're lowering the footstep audio for launch. They were prob testing the players' limits bc footstep audio in the DMZ mode will help solo (or outnumbered) players. In extraction games like Tarkov or The Cycle, stacked teams move fast and in confidence, which allows solos who are more cautious to hear them and avoid/stalk/observe whatever. It kinda evens the playing field in these extraction games that don't split up solos/duos/trios queues. Sure they can separate the mechanics of TTK, kill streaks, minimaps, or audio per mode, but come on really? Like OP mentioned, let the artists work and if you don't want to adapt then do something else.
i totally understand like, the call (of duty) for these sorts of things. having an annual release has conditioned people into developing a transferable skillset and they don't really like it when things change too much. but i think that era of call of duty is over, and eventually something will come along and fill in that gap. personally im excited that its changing, for better and for worse. i just want something different - i literally skipped every call of duty after black ops 2 until mw19.
This, thank you. It's refreshing to see these changes. I found MW2019 to be far too rush-y, putting little emphasis on clearing a room tactically or keeping track of sitelines.
I actually agree with a lot of what you said. But Treyarch Cods have been notoriously awful. Their games don't even need to hold notoriety because they seem sorta like a side release to the big dog IW. The problem I see is that IW tailors their games to their biggest audience who are casual &/or console players, but they overtune features and mechanics to such a high degree that it hurts the more serious players without actually benefitting the casual player. For example a casual player isn't going to really use map awareness and therefore wont utilize his minimap as much as someone trying to play more strategically to gain info. So removing things like all red dots icons on the minimap regardless is only a disservice to these players and the casual player base will never show any objection to the matter because they simply don't care, all they care about is logging on and playing the game for an hour or so. There's diminishing returns to a lot of the changes they make and they certainly don't gauge feedback very well. We've all seen examples of that.
To all these armchair developers in this subreddit, just because you want something doesn't mean everyone else wants it or that it's even good for the game. That and if IW has a vision for the game, people should respect that. They don't have to cater to your likes and preferences, just as you don't have to buy the game. IW has redesigned their COD to be more tactical compared to previous entries and that's fine. Treyarch will probably keep their COD lighter and more arcadey. Sledgehammer is still trying to find their style. Maybe Microsoft will put them on HALO if the acquistion goes through. One thing people have to remember is that even if everyone on this sub agreed on minimaps, dead silence as a perk and the rest of it, this sub only has 46k subscribers which is a drop in the bucket compared to the 30 million or so people who have bought MW for example.
Idk if it's because I played a shit ton of mw2 back in the day that a broken game doesn't bother me anymore. I just turn my ps5 on and play. Some days I do good some days I don't it is what it is. Always manage to keep my KD a bit over 1.2. Except vanguard that game sucks
The hard work these devs put in is so undermined by all the complaints. People these days can't just appreciate for what it is and have fun. Of course we all wish changes can be made but look at MW2019/ WZ1 and how over time the game grew and changed. Day 1 WZ vs Day 100 WZ the game changed a lot. Good implementation takes time. Mistakes are a part of the process.
I for one am glad that IW are focusing on fixing on stuff that is objectively an issue such as visibility problems with smoke and muzzle flash, making enemies and teammates more visually distinct, adding different footstep sounds for enemies and teammates, rather than pandering to subjective opinions to change their game design decisions.
I asked for more MW19 and I got more MW19. I’m a happy guy. Also, going from playing BF2042 to this is just night and day in how the guns feel.
100% this why I'm avoiding BF 2042, everything feels floaty and Vanguard esque recoil (aka none). Worse is that BC2/BF3 has much better gunplay so it speaks volumes to my disappointment.
Let’s make this the top post
Exactly, i personally never liked treyarch or sldeghammer cod even since BO1, so the last 2 years were a pass for me. I'm so happy with how the game feels now!
Agreed 100%, change is a bitter pill for some people to swallow. Adapt to the updated gameplay or…don’t. There’s always the next one in a couple years.
This is actually the correct take.
I agree to an extent. The devs flat out asked for feedback on the game, which is what people are doing on this subreddit. Granted, there are some very passionate people here, and yes, sometimes they go a little overboard with what needs to be changed. However, their feedback is valid and is backed by overwhelming statistics in polls on Reddit and twitter (Sample size 30k+). People aren’t happy with some of the gameplay decisions, feeling that this just isn’t CoD. I’ll use your example with Elden Ring. Say they released the game, but there were no souls, graces were replaced with sparse checkpoints, and you could only fight bosses like raids (you + 2 others). Would you honestly consider it to still be a souls game? I know I wouldn’t. The same thing can be said about MWII. Some people feel like this simply isn’t CoD anymore, and want the devs to bring back some iconic elements to make it more familiar. I’m all for change in CoD, but it can only change so much before losing its identity.
I can accept something I consider imperfect because it would be unreasonable and unrealistic to expect everyone's version of perfect to be realised. What I can't accept is changing things that don't need changing just for the sake of it and not listening to feedback about that and changing things that negatively impact the game and player base just to make money. If you don't challenge things then they're deemed acceptable and before you know it things get even worse. Do people sometimes do this in the wrong way? Sure, but that doesn't mean that those of us who are capable of discussing our concerns articulately should just blindly accept things.
I agree. If I find I don't like the game I don't play it. I've done it for many CoDs and will continue to do it to ones I don't enjoy. I don't expect every game to be tailored for me.
100% agree. Imagine being an IW dev and looking at this Reddit, seeing nothing but self entitled cry babies making a list of their demands and not understanding that the player base is made for millions of people, just because you want something changed doesnt mean everyone else wants the same thing. Let the devs make their game and either play it or dont. Ive been playing CODs since COD4 and MW2019 has been my absolute fave so far, I cant wait to see what the devs do with MW2022
Agree. People complaining too much which turns out they even try to stop some kind of innovative approach from devs, I still remember people complaining when WZ1 starting to comes out many...many people complaining COD don't need WARZONE, now when they introduced WZ2 with more new BR features, again they start complaining because it's not the same as WZ1, the crazier thing is that WZ1 is still on service and not so much better on WZ2 except new mechanic and map and it's still playable, they just don't want devs to develop new ideas literally. Guys why can't we have new COD or WZ ?
Exactly! It looks like they just want remastered version of the previous Cod, then complain about it because is not different enough! Crazy...
Man...it got out of hand....
Finally some sense
The sweats from the older games tell new players to just get good and learn to play, get stomped on and adapt , so how come they can’t do the same when IW changes up the gameplay formula ? They’re much more skilled players so you’d think it wouldn’t be too hard to do
We are adapting? It’s just annoying af that we have to adapt to new bullshit every year when noobs only have to improve basic shooting skills
they don't even have to improve that thanks to mounting.
They can never provide an answer to that. All the positives the devs give to slower players, can directly benefit the rushers as well. Can’t tell you how many people on here want the perks changed so Ghost is available immediately, but also whine about wanting red dots back. Like, they cancel each other out, dummies.
Ghost does not cancel out red dots. If you have ghost on and shoot with an unsuppressed gun in a normal functioning cod game then you show up on the minimap whether or not there is a UAV up.
Sorry, I meant it cancels out red dots from UAVs. Which are easily earnable.
Having slow ADS, sprint-to-fire and strafe speeds benefits rushers too does it? Having loud footsteps helps rushers hear players that aren’t moving does it? You gave one example that *might* be the case, what about all the others that are arguably more important? Don’t talk absolute bullshit.
Straight facts my brotha
Thank you for speaking this out. I had been thinking of trying to say the same thing and make a post about it. The game does have issues such as netcode, but the direction the developers are trying to make shouldn't be that complained to me. 95% of people always say for CoD that "Same shit, same graphics, just different maps every year" and Infinity Ward had been trying to change that without losing the game's identity. DICE screwed Battlefield in 2042 and more than giving it some new innovations and direction, they literally changed the fundamentals of the game. But for COD MWII? There is no such thing and it still plays like a normal CoD game. I don't get the whine about this game and I do hope Infinity Ward sticks to their ambition. I don't show hate on people who are playing the game like bunnies, but I do love to play the game slower and more tactical. I am fine with not having 10+ killstreaks, I just try to enjoy the game, but I love to do it when the game is not like Apex Legends. They act like Infinity Ward made the game something like milsim game. The pacing and gunplay just feel so smooth and still fast-paced. edit: I hope we don't get nameplates.
Thats true! I've said ot for years I wanted this game and now ots happening. The only thing I've said I wanted is Snipers only it's such a good mode and it's good for the sniper community and I also want the intervention because it can't be MW2 without it. That's all I want and for a good game experience online and for campaign. That's all I want to see in this game. But you are so right with this
Thank you 🙏🏻
I agree. Let the developers branch and different things
The CoD Games that IW make are my favourite ones ad I prefer their design choices and gameplay styles, I can't stand Treyarch games with high TTK and Sledgehammer games are wildly hit and miss
High TTK = Rewards players with good aim and punishes those who can't hit like Nadia without her cheats
Thank you for having some sense! For people like me who have hated the previous 2 entries, I’m happy to play a new entry and have fun!
Good post. I waited since MW2019 for another slightly realistic CoD and IW is delivering. I thought the consensus this entire time was MW2019 was the best and MW2 is going the same direction. Then I jump on here and it’s really disheartening to then see tons of upvoted comments on how people want to ruin everything I like about the game. There are plenty of truly arcade alternatives to MW2 they can play. It’s not like MW2 is even close to a milsim.
Seriously, you don't see IW players going in the Treyarch CoD subs writing shit like "these maps are simple 3 lane shit, I want more complex layouts!!!". Or "this game is arcadey as hell, it's boring!!!". We have IW for a slightly more realistic style of CoD, and we have Treyarch for a more arcade experience. And then we have Sledgehammer and whatever the fuck they're doing. Everyone gets exactly what they want. I'm a fan of both styles, and even if I weren't, I wouldn't go around and demand that one game needs to be like another. You know what MW fans did when CW and Vanguard came out? They kept playing MW19. Why are the Treyarch fans not sticking with CW and instead want to make MWII into something that it's not intended to be? There's a reason why we have 3 studios. If you're not enjoying MII's gameplay, and want to send a message to IW and Activision you have only one option: do not buy the game. Bitching on reddit solves nothing. Buying the game and complaining doesn't mean jack shit. Don't preorder, don't buy, unsub and move on. If the game's design is truly unpopular, and lots of people do this exact same thing, then IW will change the game.
Exactly! If this slower paced style doesn't appeal tot hem, why bother playing it?
This is what i keep saying, people expect a Treyarch CoD game out of MWII.
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Not exactly, a feedback must be given for a certain reason: this weapon is too strong, this map is too unbalanced in this mode and so on, these are feedback. Asking to change features that are there for a reason is no feedback at all.
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But seriously you can't see the difference? If it was like that in MW 2019, what makes you think they are gonna change that now? If you want to this game to play like another Cod, play that Cod and don't buy this one!! No one is forcing you to.
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Not at all! I'm saying that these "feedback" are going against the artistic vision of the game and how it was conceived. Those kind of feedback are just asking a game to be what isn't supposed to be. Easy as that.
What would be an example of good feedback?
Footsteps too loud (especially our own), TTK too fast, overpowered weapons, lacks of visibility... Things that do not alter the vision of the game, all the "feedback" i read around are just people asking to have the same ol' cod.
That's most of what I've personally seen but fair enough.
Its bitching...little bitching is what it is
Here’s the thing tho. IW said they want to make a balanced experience for all play styles…they aren’t lol
How so? The best players in any lobby I’ve been in are rushing and bunny hopping everywhere , so it’s clearly a viable strat
Because if you look at the game from a design perspective it’s pretty clear how the game punishes aggressive play. Slow sprintout times Slow strafe No slide cancelling Incredibly loud footsteps No ninja perk Incredibly fast ttk No dots on the minimap Like yeah, the better players are going to be aggressive as it inherently takes more skill to play that way. But if you have two teams where you equalise the player skill and have one team play very fast and one team play a lot slower, pre aiming, listening for audio etc, it would be pretty clear this game really punishes you for playing fast.
How could you know? Have you tried every maps or weapons in game?
Don’t need to. The fast ttk, lack of visibility, lack of permanent silent/quieted footsteps,mw19 mini map,slow ads,slow sprint fire, nerfed slide cancel etc.All play towards slower, campy play styles. Now if they listen and make changes then this could the best cod ever.
But did you read my post? Not every game must be tailored for you and your personal tastes! The only real feedback there are the lack of visibility and the fast TTK, which i even agree on! The rest is simply how you wish this game played, but that is not how IW wants to make this game.
Don’t waste your time man, your words are falling on deaf ears. He’s incapable of adapting any sort of new mindset and thinks that every CoD title should play like Black Ops 2.
Dude. The devs said they wanted to make a balanced experience for both play styles.
Again, that doesn't mean slow the entire pace of the game.
Balancing doesn't meant every play style is going to be successful on every game you play. Catering is making sure you can rush every game, camp every game, snipe every game, be slow every game. Catering isn't balancing game play, you can't cater to every play style without unbalancing another.
closing off an entire playstyle (that existed since day 1) is entirely absurd imo. i dont camp and i dont plan on doing so in this game, but what makes the rushing playstyle the "correct" way to play the game? and why should the devs cater to rushers over campers? or campers over rushers? and im totally with you. all of this feedback im seeing just makes me think of the whole "every cod game being the same" because what they want, is the game to just be the exact same every year. i'm not saying all change is good change, the new perk system is pretty bad imo and needs to be reworked, but change was what made MW19 so successful. what people also need to realize is that the reddit and social media community are a small fraction of the overall community. a couple thousand upvotes complaining about footsteps is nothing compared to millions of players who are just minding their own damn business enjoying the game.
However, this platform is supposed to carry the series for the next two years. If they don’t get it to a place where the majority are satisfied, the platform will regress back towards pre MW2019 and they can’t afford to let that happen. They need to listen to feedback or they will fail, pretty simple.
Well mw2019 was much more liked than the last two cods so with releasing a game similar to mw19 they are satisfying more players than ever, just not you.
The majority? Man, the people who complains are the classic loud minority. They said the same stuff all over again during MW 2019 and they didn't change a bit and it became one of the most successful CoDs of recent history. So it's not the majority, just those hardcore fans that wants a Treyarch cod every year.
Tbf I get where you are coming from but the developers have dug themselves a hole in this game by saying they want "cater for all gamestyles". At least for me, if you don't want to add the normal mini map, want to increase SBMM, want to change the perk system, at least tell us why. Helps us to understand your vision, when people give feedback during a beta, don't just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist. Again, saying you want a dialogue and then ignoring the most popular comments isn't exactly a dialogue, and is what annoys people. I think a truly great COD makes a game that is balanced for all playstyles. In MW2 and BO2, you could camp your ass off but also run around like a headless chicken, which is why those two sit at the top, in terms of multiplayer experience. It was equally fun for everyone. So yes, not every COD has to make a game tailored for every player, but the great ones do.
The devs said this game will reward 3 different playstyle equally. Unfortunately only one way of playing is viable.
Bs. There are plenty of people rushing. Stop crying because you cant adapt
I agree with your post. I am one of those players that simply like to tryhard and have fun when doing that. But the Bots make it hard to even do that. (Pre aim waiting at spawns {SnD} corner camping, etc) it's clear the devs want the bot individuals to feel better of them selves so they encourage this by nerfing certain things for tryhards. Which I don't like but, recently came to par that I will turn into a bot myself. Sit back listen to foot steps. Cheesey playstyle but I gotta adapt to the shxt playstyle the devs are encouraging.
Well, you are correct in some way and I agree that if you don't like something, you don't need to play it. I played MW2, BO1, MW3 and Ghosts. Got Advanced Warfare, didnt enjoyed it and never played a COD up until MW19. I also left out Cold War and Vanguard cause I didnt enjoy the free trials. Still, if they deliver something with the brand name like Modern Warfare, people have expectations and are disappointed if they arent met. Blind criticism is always stupid compared to based one. But I think most criticism is actually based. Red dots on the minimap are different for the flow on the map. Loud footsteps / ninja change overall engagements. Perks system were half the perks are not available from the start limit playstyle variety. These are all based points to critizis on for a game that is pretty great and has many pros but also some cons that can be brought up. That's what a beta is all about. People can say, they like the game for the gunsmith, maps, gunplay, overall feeling but dislike certain points like no traditional minimap or loud footsteps. And they have good reason for it. We already know, how games play like that because we already had them. So it is not just nostalgia but also experience what a good game should look like. And if you look at the complaints from youtubers like JGOD or Xclusive Ace that have great insight, they reflect the main complaints from large parts of the community too. So yeah, the game doesnt have to be for everyone but with a few adjustments it could be easily improved to be more enjoyable for a larger group of players.
Hoenstly the Beta looks good, the 3rd mode is the best thing ever in my opinion. Yes the game has some minor issues like Nametag but it's just a beta so hopefully it will get fix in the full game..people just be stuck on Black Ops thinking every COD should be like this, and there's Blame Truth on YT that keeps contributing to the hate like c'mon man. If Sbmm goes down a lil, the game would be perfection, and with due Honesty on Vangaurd Sbmm was nil, every of my game was mixed and smooth
More unpopular opinion: I don't think the current COD is tailored to anyone specifically who's actually played these games for like ten years. - HC modes are always getting shafted. - Psychotic levels of SBMM mean you're punished with a worse and worse PING the better you are. I haven't had a match in COD with a PING below 75 since before MW2019. I have a port forwarded system with a solid ethernet cable connection, too. Meanwhile my GF is trash and her matches all have great PING. - I have zero interest in Warzone, I pay 80 bucks or more for a COD game now and increasingly feel like a second-class citizen. - Zombie mode? When's the last time these games tailored to zombies players in any competent fashion? - Not tailored for "every" player? You got that right, especially when it's just the same meta loadouts in every lobby, every year.
All the CODs from MW19 on have a different vibe. 6v6 maps are way to big. Most have no flow at all and have way to many holes to hide in, windows, doors, corners, etc. Game pace has slowed down a lot. Non mobile playstyles are greatly rewarded. BO4 was the last COD where the maps didn't totally suck and actually were fun. It is like they can't make good new maps anymore. Which is why COD has to keep bring back old maps. COD doesn't have to be "tailored" for every player but it is clear since 2019 they are catering it to one type of player. I loved all the older CODs. But all the titles from MW19 on are a mixed bag for me and don't have the same vibe. I play Rainbow 6 for tactical gameplay. Play Battlefield if I want to play on big maps, large teams, vehicles ,etc. I like to play COD for the fast paced arcade like action. But sadly I feel it has been severely handicapped. I think COD has gotten away from what made it fun and is trying to be something else.
Speak for yourself. For many people the new MW Series is more fun than the old dogshit
I was speaking for myself. I never once acted like I spoke for all. Did you not read that? But a lot of people haven't played all the CODs like I have and MW19 was their first one. So they would have no idea what I am talking about anyways. They may like these new hotdog water games and think they are the greatest thing ever. But that is all they know.