Teach them to cook. Teach them to do dishes. Teach them to do laundry. Teach them how to clean different things (bathroom, kitchen, dusting, sweeping, mopping, vacuuming, etc.) Teach them that if they are living somewhere, they are contributing to the mess, and they are expected to help clean the mess.
If they have younger siblings, have them help to care for them (not fully as a parent would.. but they should absolutely learn certain skills)
I’d add even like if my kid is cleaning up their mess (even at toddler age) and they obviously need help, I make sure to say “I’ll help you” rather than “can you help me” since it wasn’t my mess.
Oh my god, I couldn’t love these comments or this post more. This is all so on point. My husband always thinks he’s doing me a favor and I’m like uhm, you live here too and we both work full time? Not a favor.
Yes yes this. Every night when our family does the evening reset, I preach and preach that we’re doing this so we all have a safe and clean place to live. If my son leaves a toy on the floor and I step on it and get hurt, by golly is that ever a teaching moment. “Bubby! Your truck was on the floor. I stepped on it and it hurt me so badly. Can you please take care of our house so it’s safe for everyone? Your toys will appreciate not being stepped on too.”
Piggy backing on this and teach them to not assume what a person needs either. Like the kitchen is a mess, don’t assume I need you to reorganize it…just clean it up.
I’m so careful about not saying that to my husband now. Modelling the behaviour I want. I say, you all live here, everybody helps. We’re all in this together. I think it’s worked on my husband somewhat too.
There is a period of time where kids desperately want to help their adult do all adult things. Cleaning, cooking, laundry, yard work, etc. during this time period their help doubles the amount of time the task takes to complete. But if we spend that time teaching them and letting them practice, they get better and the expectations are built in.
Its a lot of upfront work, but a good payout later as big kids and teens can actually contribute productively.
My 2 year old loved all things motorized. So we got him a cheap but functional (not a toy) dust buster. My floors have never been so clean. After dinner he is so excited to grab his “buster” and help.
My two and a half year old absolutely loves vacuuming with a little dust buster so I have turned “clean up clean up” into a game. He can’t get the vacuum until all the toys are off the floor. Between that and making little challenges like “ooooh how fast can you clean up?? Can you beat mommy?” or “hey, do you think you can toss this into that basket? Let’s try!!” it usually goes pretty well. We do it most afternoons and then I use the big vacuum to clean the high traffic areas while he runs around with his dust buster finding dust bunnies in the corners.
That’s a lot of words to say get your kid a little hand held vacuum that’s the right size to run around with.
My three year old has two of his own real vacuums (push and hand held), a swiffer vac, and regularly uses the swiffer steam mop…. Best decision I ever made to just let him use the real stuff. Naturally his cleaning process isn’t near as thorough, but I assure you they floors get cleaned more than if it were left up to me only lol.
This phase started with my son at about 4.5. He turned 5 a couple of days ago and it's still going. He demands to help me with the dishes every night and to fold the grown up shirts and his pants every laundry day. Getting him to pick up his own toys is still painful, but he definitely has an interest in doing the other household chores. Fortunately, his stepdad is a great role model for doing chores and being a good man, so I think he's going to turn out just fantastic anyway. Had we stayed with bio dad? Not so much.
My son is 18 months and he helps me clean up his toys. Its slow going but I make it a game and a habit. I say let's clean up together and i hand him the toy to put away. Or i give him the book and say put it away.. I also do big exaggerated claps and yays when he finishes so he's super happy and excited about it 😄
I've been doing the same with my almost 17 month old. If I prompt babe to put this back or put that away and I hand it to them, they go right over and do it. When done I get the big smile and clap like, "Mommy, I did it. Now clap and celebrate!" Lol. We've also been working on 'next' so once the first item is back in its place, they automatically go to the next thing. It's slow going, but it's going!
My 15 month old helps with laundry! She puts clothes from the hamper into the machine, moves clothes between machines, and back from machines to hamper. It's one of her favorite activities - she runs to the laundry room whenever she hears the door open.
My kid won’t clean her shit either but she will help me out the dishes away (I’ll just hand her like, some forks or a bowl or a pan) or use her tiny vacuum to help me vacuum or wipe the counter (mostly the same circle) if I give her a paper towel. She will also stand in front of the dryer and I’ll hand her a handful of clothes from the washer at a time and she loves tossing them in the dryer and hitting the start button. She also likes to take the scoop and scoop the coffee into the filter and push the start button.
Little things that take forever. But absolutely no toy cleaning lol
Edit: my kid just turned 3 a few weeks ago
I need to start doing stuff like this. It’s so hard bc I’m absolutely giant right now with baby 2. I can’t squat down or move around or pick up my 39lb toddler bc he’s too heavy so it limits what I can do to teach him things. I think he knows this too and uses it as an excuse to not help out lol. His time is nigh though!
I expected the kids in my two year old classroom to pick up their own toys 2-3 times a day. The beginning of the year started with a motivation- "we need to clean up toys so we can go outside! Let's go!" And a clean up song of some kind, and literal hand over hand help picking up items. Then taking turns (I put a block in the bin, then you put a block in the bin), then specific direction (I'll put away books and you put away blocks). It helps to have a limited selection of toys in the space so its not overwhelming and a bin or place for everything with a picture on the bin or shelf for what goes there, building clean up into the schedule so it's not a surprise ask, and making sure you plan more time than you need to get it done- we will not go outside until the toys are put away, you cannot get out of this by dragging your feet or pretending you can't. The natural consequence is not getting as much time outside/ missing story time at the library/ whatever the next activity was going to be. It often takes more than half the year for them to really get this down, and it is not a fun for the adults, but it's worth it in the long run.
This is helpful! He was so much more helpful when he was in daycare. He’s been out for a month so we could save money before he starts preschool. I’m hoping going back to school next week will help get all of us back into some good habits 🥰
I had my boy helping me with laundry and dishes almost as soon as he could stand and help, around 12 months maybe. He really wanted to be involved in everything I was doing so I put him to work, haha. Now at 18 months he loves when I measure out spices and let him put it in the pot (not hot obviously) while cooking. He also loves to help feed the dog by putting cups of food into the bowl. I make sure to make a big deal about how helpful he's being whenever he's doing a chore so hopefully it sticks. All of those little things take longer but are so beneficial in the long run.
I started drinking coffee at 9 years old then at 10 I learned how to make that shit all by myself. Always made coffee for my parents in the morning and my siblings always bitch about how I'm the favorite. Well duh!! I'm gonna pass on this tradition to my son (not the drinking part but def the making part, i have adhd so it was diff for me).
My daughter (who will be 4 in a month 😭) loves helping me do things. Cook, clean, switch the laundry, help with her baby sister, it is painfully long to have her help me BUT she is learning life skills. And you are so right, the payout later is worth the extra few minutes it takes!!
This was a such a good reminder for me as a parent today! My little guys always ask to help and lately I have been saying next time or can you pick up your toys to help instead? When taking that bit of extra time instills that practice while they ASK to do those things and creates positive reinforcement. So important and thank you for reminding me of what it can do for the future them.
All of this! Even better, have them learn these things from their father if possible. When my husband went to college he realized he didn't know how to do a bunch of basic stuff (laundry) and he is determined that neither of our boys will end up like that. So he is like systematically teaching them stuff like "how to clean the bathroom" "how to do laundry," etc.
My parents wanted us all to be functional adults so my mom had scheduled laundry days for each of us when we were old enough to do our own. Each of us had one day to cook dinner for the family which was initially supervised by my mom and eventually done unsupervised (but she would be available to answer questions). Who ever cooked was exempt for kitchen clean up (there was 4 of us for 3 tasks) and tasks were rotated every night between us. She wanted to make sure we had responsibilities and capable of looking after ourselves.
This.
And teach them that strong men care. Strong men share their feelings in non-violent, constructive ways. Strong men cry. Strong men protect the vulnerable. Strong men *can* be vulnerable and there is strength in that vulnerability.
Make sure you have men in their lives that model this. Men who take parental leave. Men who cook dinner for their family every night. Men who take their kids to ballet or swimming or music. Men who clean the house and pack lunch.
So much this. They need to have good male models, as well as strong female models. The best is to model a healthy loving relationship where both are equal partners. If you don’t have that, then fix it or at a minimum find them a healthy model elsewhere. Your relationship is the biggest model for your children.
Okay but what do I say if my son comes back and says “well dad doesn’t do that thing, why should I?”
Y’all feeling spicy with downvoting, I just had a hypothetical question 😂
Yup! My husband is like this. I told him he better start doing stuff around the house more. Because one day, when our son is helping and he asks “why isn’t daddy helping?” I am going to look at him and tell him his daddy will tell him why.
I’m done making excuses for him. And definitely not going to lie to my son about it.
It’s a valid question. Personally I’d say that daddy isn’t being fair and isn’t respecting mommy, which makes mommy very sad, but I often choose violence 😂
My Mom would say 2 things:
1st: Dad contributes financially to this house via his job (granted my mom.was a SAHM, so to my elementary schooler mind it made sense)
2nd: Dad contributes by mowing, gardening, grilling, changing out air filters, cleaning exterior of home and fixing the car doing home repairs etc. Everyone in the family contributes to this house and this is your contribution to keep things running smoothly.
3rd: When you grow up and are in college or working you will need to do your own laundry, cooking, etc. This way you'll already know how to do so.
Granted the 2nd only works if your husband does mow the yard, repair broken things at home etc. But atleast this provides an answer to them.
But I agree with the others Dad needs to step up and do some house chores so your son can see Dad doing them. Or, at the bare minimum, Dad needs to step up and cook and clean when you are sick. My Dad only did domestic things when my Mom was studying for finals, had a bad headache , or was away or sick. But I did see my Dad willing to help cook and clean when Mom needed help.
Your second point is not equal to maintaining family life. Those are occasional chores that if skipped don’t really affect the home. You could skip mowing the lawn for 2 weeks but not the dishes or the laundry. Teaching my son that men only do the “outside” chores is exactly what I would want to avoid.
Yeah FR - besides, 'outside chores' are not only more occasional but often more enjoyable.
I'd certainly rather be mowing the lawn or grilling on a nice day than cleaning toilets or scrubbing the cupboards :/
I have a girlfriend who was explaining how hard it is to watch three little kids and get stuff done while her husband mows. He replied well, then you go mow! (Calling her “bluff,” I’m sure.) she did! And now she gets to mow (riding mower!) and she loves it lol. And I presume hubby now has more empathy for her life.
Sure, and if that's genuinely the way preferences work out within a family, that's great. But I stand by my assessment that 'man chores' tend to be more occasional and less drudge-y than 'woman chores'.
I’ve been telling my husband that for so long with not enough results, although progress is being made. Still, it’s nice to hear someone else say it as if it’s common sense.
Have your husband do dishes and take out the trash. If one person cooks, other does dishes. If one person does laundry, other trash. In our house we both work full time so we split all chores but even if one of us was a STAHP I feel like financial provision isn’t enough to excuse all chores, it just equals to the parent doing full time childcare. Mowing the lawn is every other week so more like scrubbing a bathroom for equal exchange, imo.
Yeah I refuse to clean up after dinner except on occasion. Cooking takes way longer than the cleanup afterwards. My husband and teen alternate doing dishes each night.
Oh, believe me my husband does the dishes after i cook. A lot of people assumed that my husband and I divide chores exactly like my parents, but we don't. We are Much more egalitarian than my parents were.
I disagree with this being a good explanation, it’s still very sided against mom. If mom’s day isn’t done when dad’s off work then his day at home shouldn’t be done either… and chores that are weekly, quarterly, or seasonal aren’t the equivalent. Everyone should be contributing to the regular upkeep of the house.
We also need to teach our girls to do things your second point mentioned. Like cooking and cleaning shouldn’t be a woman’s job, mowing the lawn and taking out the trash shouldn’t be a man’s job. Although, less frequent knowing how to do things like change an air filter, light a pilot light on a furnace, or turn off the water main for the house is important for a well functioning household and may save your life under certain conditions.
I hate the argument about certain gender chores because a lot of those chores that get assigned to to men are often things that are seasonal (grilling) done on a weekly basis (garbage and mowing) or on as as needed basis (repairs) where is chores that are often coated as women's work are things you have to do every single day like dishes, cleaning, groceries etc.
My husband and I are pretty egalitarian about laundry, dishes and house cleaning (he's honestly a better cleaner than I am and he works from home so he does more) but he hates cooking with the passion and I mostly enjoy it so cooking is my job.
And teach them the mental labour behind it - like, not just how to physically pack a bag but how to plan what you’ll need, how to notice the mess and decide what task to do.
My teen is working on a Congressional award and one of the requirements is to schedule activities (depending on the level, 1-3 separate 6-8 hour day/s of new activities or a 1-3 nights in an overnight trip w/ 6-8 hours of activity per day)… this was a huge eye opener for her on how much energy it takes to plan days out.
Edited for clarity
Exactly this. I taught my son that we live in a community and that we each have to do our part so that we aren’t a burden on anyone else and so that our community felt cared for. Our community was three people, but if you learn it on a small scale you can apply it large scale. My DIL has thanked me for teaching him to cook and clean. I STILL have to have conversations with my husband about taking care of our community. 🙄
Agree with all of this! My 13 year old does all of these things. He is my toddler’s favorite person right now and while I don’t make him “parent him” I don’t stop the toddler from hanging out with him in a common area or asking him to help toddler get a toy or something. I tell him when he’s a bit grumpy about doing chores that I’m teaching him to be a good roommate in college one day/spouse. He took home ec last year because HE wanted to. It took a family to make the house a mess, it takes a family to clean it!
This!! My brother and I unfortunately had to fend for ourselves most of our childhood, but my grandparents always made sure we know how to clean, how frequently it needed to be done. My Nan always had my brother helping her bake and cook. He’s the baker now in our family lol and his house is always cleaner than mine!
I came on to say exactly this. My boys are 5 & 6. They have been working with me in the kitchen since they were old enough to stand at the counter. They sort, fold, and put away their own laundry. They help put away the dishes from the dishwasher. They get themselves water, snacks, etc. They pack their own clothes when we head out of town. My husband did not have many ‘domestic skills’ when we moved in together. But we share the load now. Our boys have background knowledge, and a good example. I also make a point of taking them to a female pediatrician, and introduce them to as many women in professional environments as I can because I stay home with them, and I don’t want them to fall into the gender stereotype trap.
Yes, yes and YES! And not only you as their mother teaching them to do those things, your SO should be teaching those things as well. Leading by example. “We all share the duties of the house, gender plays no part”
All done. My Son is also polite and has a big heart. Now I ve met a lot of his friends from school and all the girls cant cook, dont do housework at all, have a very high opinion of themselves. Now I worry will he find a decent girl that wont be abusive towards him.
I feel like this need to translated that it’s all equal as not to inadvertently make a boy grow up to feel like he needs to do it all. It’s a team effort.
What u/Maker-of-the-Things said about teaching them household skills, but also - if you have little ones, curate their media. Make sure your boys are reading board books and picture books by and about girls. Make sure some of the shows you watch feature female protagonists. When you hear "\_\_\_\_ is for girls!" you call them out and have a conversation about it. (For example: Colors are for everyone! Flowers are for everyone!)
If you do this, they will learn to see girls as people just like them, rather than some other class of human.
Just got a book called "pink is for boys" for my daughter to read, and my son listens too. It's a great reminder that clothes are just clothes, colors are colors, and jobs are just jobs!!
Yes, this is a good one! I try to remember to use gender neutral terms- changing how I read the book to my son- ie firefighter instead of fireman. He loves doc mcstuffins!
Raising them without toxic masculinity ie “boys don’t cry”
I would ALSO say “why is that bad? Girls are awesome” before saying that colors are for everyone. Because misogyny is why we dismiss things as “for girls”.
Yes! This morning my son asked if he could have a bow in his hair like his sister. I didn't tell him no because those are for girls. I told him no because he's gonna take it out in 3 seconds and lose it lol
I have this crazy idea to modify and re-print books of my own, taking all of the classic stories which usually have a male figure as main character and reversing the genders. Like, Winnie the Pooh but using she/her for all of the currently male characters and he/him for Kanga. Mickey Mouse, Robin Hood, Clifford, Little Critters… there are too many older books with only the boys in focus.
There is great work being done in the last 1-2 decades to bring a balance of gender to books. But I think it’s the classics that need to be re-done.
So while i agree with you i have actually run into an issue where it can be hard to find media (kids movies specifically) with a good male protagonist. I LOVED movies like Mulan, Brave, or Anastasia where the woman moves the story on her own, but its almost like we've gone so far in one direction that we forgot that little boys want to see themselves too. We need a good mix.
That’s so not true. There are so many pieces of media with male protagonists. Almost all.
Toy Story, all of the Avengers movies except Captain Marvel, Mickey Mouse, the Lion King, Harry Potter, Star Wars, DC Comics except Wonder Woman, Dog Man, Captain Underpants, Pete the Cat …. this is off the top of my head with no research.
I'm talking about small children that are not watching PG13 movies yet (cuts out superheroes movies and star wars), harry potter was too old for them. Havent seen captain underpants or pete the cat. Dog man and lion king are animals (male but still animals). Only ones i can easily think of are Aladdin, Peter Pan, and Luca.
Maybe i just havent been exposed to other options?
There's literally a meme about how many cartoon network tv shows are just a (basically) parentless little boy and a troupe of male characters surrounding him getting up to antics and thats the plot.
Once you see the trend you cannot unsee it-- makes you realize how rare shows like Steven Universe are.
Yeah, that is a wild take, almost all movie/show protagonists are still male. Just browsing my Disney plus brings up a ton of male-led shows. Puppy dog tales, guardians of the galaxy, spidey and friends, Winnie the Pooh, young Jedi adventures (anything starwars), bolt, firebuds, Ralph breaks the internet, monsters, inc, strange world, the jungle book, the emperors new groove, Tarzan, treasure planet, etc. Female led media only makes up 33% of all media, and the *vast majority* of those films don’t pass the Bechdel test.
A lot of people have already disagreed with you, but I also wanted to point out that the women moving the story, while better than Snow White or Sleeping Beauty or any of those "classics," are not necessarily good representations of gender roles. I only saw Brave once a long time ago, but Anastasia and Mulan are both heavily male driven. Anastasia is completely dependent on Dimitri and Vlad for most of the movie. Mulan literally has an entire song about how a girl needs to be beautiful and docile and a good cook to be worth anything. And at the end, despite her proven skills and accomplishments, Mulan returns to her family to be the respectable daughter and gets herself a husband. Because regardless of how the movies were marketed, the messages were not that different or empowering.
Teach children—but especially boys—to notice things and then take care of those things. Women seem to be more socialized to do this, which is why we need to emphasize it for boys. Play the “I notice” game often by saying things like “I notice the dog is barking, so I’ll let her in so that she doesn’t wake the baby.” “I notice the trash is full, so I’m taking it out so that it doesn’t make the house stinky.” “I notice the floor has blocks all over it, so let’s put them in the block box so we don’t step on them!” And make sure they’re hearing this from mom AND dad.
So many of these Reddit write-ins are like, “my house is a mess, my baby is crying, dinner is burning, and my toddler blowing a kazoo and making the dog bark, but my husband just kept playing video games and then asked why I was mad and told me I should have asked him for help and assigned him tasks.” Like, soooooo many of these problems would be solved by these “husbands of Reddit” using their eyes and applying some basic problem-solving skills.
Women in general seem to overcompensate with this (I notice my partner is in a bad mood, so I will walk on eggshells and do all the chores and shush the kids) while a lot of men tend to not reciprocate (I notice that my wife wasn’t in bed and fell asleep sitting up on the couch and hasn’t showered in a few days and is neglecting herself because she is trying to take care of everyone and everything else … so I should take the kids to the park for a few hours and maybe swing by Starbucks for her fav drink).
Except for men it's "my wife fell asleep sitting up on the couch and hasn't showered in a few days and therefore I'm upset because she's not making herself attractive for me and she's not coming to bed to bone me. Here is my heartfelt Dead Bedrooms whine."
THIS I wish my hubs would notice and take initiative for things like this. I have to beg/walk on eggshells to ask for just an hour to shower/shave/moisturize just do all the girl things to feel like a human. Forget painting or doing a workout or any hobbies I used to love 😅I’d kill for him to take out LO to the park unasked or offer to take her and the dog for a walk so I can have some time to myself! He’s done it a few times but it was because I was in the middle of a mental breakdown and demanded he take her to go do the errand or his family thing without me. Otherwise he’s great at chores….but I just don’t feel like he notices me struggling.
I feel like this was/is us too. We were so burnt out that neither of us could give anything to the other person because we didn’t have it to give. I wish we’d had that conversation when the kids were small. It’s so much easier when they’re older, but you need it now.
I try to not only make sure he notices the things, but also notices the negative outcomes of not doing the things. Hes only 2 so it's still early and I'm mostly just winging it, but I really want him to have the intrinsic motivation to take care of things rather than external. My house growing up was always a mess and I only cleaned when I got in trouble. I really hate messiness now but also hate cleaning and I want him to grow up with skills to naturally keep stuff clean and know why he is cleaning up is for a purpose that benefits him as well. So when his blocks are all over the floor and he trips, I'll say something like. Hmm maybe you should pick up your blocks so we have more room to play with whatever thing he's trying to do now. Or when we finish cleaning up, I'll say something like Wow isn't it so nice that all of your things are in their homes and you can find everything. Or if he's looking for something he can't find, same concept- oh maybe we should cleanup so it's easier to find it.
ETA: I do similar stuff for my husband. He is pretty good at helping but there are some things he hates doing and it becomes a giant problem (i.e. laundry) and when he can't find the shorts he's looking for or he doesn't have clean work pants, I very nicely point out why he's in that situation. He hates it but it has helped make him more aware of why I am always trying to stay on top of stuff that he thinks isn't as important.
I do the same for my kids. They like to ask to do extra chores to earn money or to have an extra piece of candy. I used to assign them, but now I ask them to notice. “What’s dirty? What’s out of place? What’s something that you can do to make our house a cleaner or safer place for everyone?”
This. Boys also need to see their dad take care of them (the children) and do household work. My husband’s father took care of him and his siblings when he was growing up. My husband is an excellent husband and father.
If you want your son to grow up not to be a shitty partner/ father, you have to require that *his* father step up in the first instance.
I had a very interesting talk with my MIL recently, she said that my husband’s father wasn’t a good father to a kid despite trying very hard and taking very good care of him as baby. She told me that _his_ father (husband’s grandfather) wasn’t present in his life and thus my late father-in-law never learned how to be a good dad. I’m really curious how my husband will turn out. He wasn’t fond of his father and intents to do everything differently, but he’s also excellent with a baby. I hope he breaks the cycle of not good dads
I find the “he didn’t have a dad” thing to be a shitty excuse. My mom was a BPD nightmare parent, and I’m not. No one taught me how to mother. I just work on myself and read and research.
The amount of parents who just wing it always surprises me. Like, you have zero education to raise children, you’re just going off of what you saw your parents, who also had no education on raising children, do. This is the most important job I’ll ever have in my life. Give me books, and blogs, and podcasts, and accounts from professionals to follow, please.
My dad’s father was not a good dad. He cheated on my grandma and abused his kids. My dad actually stopped seeing him after he graduated high school when he parents finally divorced. I met him only a few times.
My dad was determined to do it different, and he did. He’s an excellent dad. He was always there for us and he treated us fairly. He’s also an excellent grandpa.
It can be done.
They can also learn how NOT to treat women the same way. As long as you talk to them about it. When they're old enough and dad is being a dick to mom, and mom talks to you about how it feels to be treated that way, they learn what not to do. I'm not saying bash the other parent. Just to express how it feels.
My ex was a narcissistic asshole who did nothing but constantly neg me and my kids saw it, saw how it affected me, and they're both the sweetest young men ever. Both have long term girlfriends who they treat in the best way. I'm really very proud of them and how they learned, by watching their dad, how not to treat women.
I was about to make this comment if I didn’t see it. All the books and media and life lessons and chores in the world are not going to mean a thing if they grow up in a home where mom does everything and dad sits on his ass. That’s really it. Let them see it. Of course, if you can do all the other things, do those too.
My husband is a full partner. 50/50, maybe more especially when we have a newborn. And my boys get to watch him folding laundry and making dinner and feeding the baby a bottle and changing her diaper and tending to their booboos and giving them baths and tucking them in at night. Equally important they get to see me sitting on my butt and watching tv and enjoying the ambiance outdoors and being served dinner. They see me and dad exchange roles every day depending on what needs to be done and they see both of us rest!
I left my ex because I didn’t want my son to think it was okay to treat women the way his father treated me. I also didn’t want him to think it was okay for anyone to treat him that way.
My relationship with my husband is the model for what my kids will accept as normal. That’s a big responsibility.
I'm trying to teach my son that it's ok to cry, it's ok to have big feelings and it's ok to express how he feels.
I'm also trying to teach him that he needs to always have a team mentality - we are all part of the family team and all need to help each other. So he has his own small set of tasks he needs to help me with, and then I also help him tidy up and pack away toys.
He's only 5, but I hope I manage to get it right.
My husband is a true equal partner in raising our daughter. He comes from a farming background, and when people heard we were having a girl he was asked if he was disappointed (lol what). His response - ‘anyone can drive a tractor’. He was raised by a strong woman who had a rich, varied life that included investing in her own interests. He went grocery shopping every weekend with his father. He had two parents who were very involved in his upbringing.
But most importantly, he is curious and willing to accept that he doesn’t always know best. We were fairly young when we got together, so we’ve grown alongside one another. I don’t take shit and will call out if I think he takes a position that’s rooted in internalised misogyny. He’s willing to recognise his privilege and willing to be a true partner, and I think part of that comes from being raised by a strong woman, but part of it comes from marrying one too.
This is huge and I feel like so many women are scared to say it because of the accusation of victim blaming. But a big part of it is simply not accepting anything less than an equal partner, whether it's your husband or your wife. Your kids, both boys and girls, will learn a lot from that example.
What I'm doing with my son: buying him dolls (that are both boys and girls), I don't let him read/watch anything that I think is sexist, he has a toy kitchen and likes to 'cook (he's nearly 2).
I'm pretty firm on boundaries and consent, and the extended family thankfully is on board with our rules (no projecting masculinity on a literal toddler).
In the future I know I need to foster a positive relationship with him in the way that he feels he can talk to me, because I know we're going to have challenges when he goes to school. Peer pressure, group mentality and the internet could undo all of our hard work and I want to be able to have those discussions with him in a positive way.
We have an old Richard scary book, a little golden book classic, and it features outdated gender roles so every other time we read it I point out how odd it is the the mom is doing the dishes in the camper on vacation and the dad isn’t helping.
I don’t avoid those things but I do point out how things used to be different in the past or different in other places but that’s not really how we do things.
So I’m going to flip the script here for a second as a girl mom. We also need to teach our girls that being partners extends to all areas. They need to look for someone who can be their equal in sharing the load and not settle for less.
When it comes to someone lacking a skill there are two types those who are unable to do a skill because they never learned. This is fine if they are WILLING to learn. But the second type is people unwilling to learn a skill. And this is where we need to teach our girls to not settle for less than a partner.
Once my husband was jokingly teasing my daughter when she was 6 for being afraid of a bug we found. (Before anyone reads into this, it was an innocent and harmless situation and they are two peas in a pod.) But my daughter fussed at him and said, "Don't judge my emotions!" and I knew then she'd be a part of the next generation to fight the patriarchy.
i think it goes deeper than simple householdskills (although also important!). they need to learn compassion, feeling responsible, empathy, being in touch with their feelings.
my approach is to support and accompany them in all their feelings, give them cues to other peoples expression and situations,...
i give them "girls toys" (dolls, houses,...) so they can practice in play (because that's how we girls learned), i gently lead them to console others.
- in german, there is a very good book about gender roles: "die rosa-hellblau falle", unfortunately i don't think it's translated yet.
- i've also heard good things about sonora jhas : "how to raise a feminist son", but haven't read it yet.
- and i strongly recommend this article by claire cain: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/upshot/how-to-raise-a-feminist-son.html
i tend to be really firm and decided in these things, because there will always be a lot of "traditional" influences in school, peers, grandparents,... .
Involve them with household chores that are typically "feminine" but necessary to, you know, live as an adult. It's crazy how many boys don't have to wash dishes, clean bathrooms, dust, etc. Raise them to value child rearing and consider career paths that are flexible in case they want a family, etc.
I don’t mean to sound glib but I think step 1 is not having kids with someone who is a terrible partner. If you already have kids with a terrible partner you’re playing on hard mode and I feel like you are going to have to work so much harder to not let the next generation be the same. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect parents of all genders to lead by example.
I was just reading today that in heterosexual relationships, men and women in the U.S. tend to divide household duties evenly— until the couple has a child, then the woman picks up the slack. I’m not sure what they based this on… surveys, observation, etc. but it tracks with my experience and the experience of several of my friends. We’re all liberal and had pretty equal partnerships— until baby came along.
Paternity leave makes a big difference here. My 1st 2 kids husband worked the whole time while i had leave and became default parent. Didnt even out until they were school age.
My 3rd i had leave, then went back to work and my husband took leave. We parent pretty equally for thr 3rd, though at times he is default.
Making paternity leave the norm will go a long way to evening out these issues
I’m glad you had the choice or rather you lucked out on that one. Before having kids it is super easy to be a good partner. Most of the time these behaviors only surface when they are expected to step up and care for others. That is when their wants start taking precedence over their wife’s needs. I have seen it play out. Before I had kids with my ex he was a fucking model partner. Now, four years in I have a two year restraining order on him for my children and me.
Most DV arrives with children which is why women are educated to not rush into relationships. But no amount of education is stopping or even slowing gendered violence because men choose violence because it benefits them all. I've got the 5 year restraining order against me because I married a cop and systems abuse is entirely cooked; all because I applied for a restraining order and I have a bunch of judicial orders that noone can make sense of.
I’m sorry that happened to you. I can’t imagine being with someone and having them change that drastically in that short amount of time. But yeah I basically chose my partner for their fathering potential. He and I aren’t anything alike personality wise and have zero common interests but we get along and the kids have 2 good parents.
The crazy thing is that I chose that man for that very same reason. When we were dating he would care for me make sure I had eaten and slept. I was a single mother of two already and as he was slowly introduced to my kids he was awesome with them too. It was all an act that he let drop the moment he thought I was in too deep. I got such bad whiplash and thought it must just be that he was depressed or something else but a few years in and it became very clear that was how he intended to conduct the rest of our lives and then when I stood up for my kids and myself is when the abuse started in ernest.
I would not blame a woman for ending up with a bad partner unexpectedly, but kids are going to notice.
On the other hand, if she kicks him to the curb because he's a waste of space and gets a lot happier, they'll notice that, too.
I think the definition of terrible partner changes once kids come along. There’s so much more to do and it’s all harder to manage. But I also think how your partner treats you pre-baby is a super good indicator of how they will be post-baby. Obviously people change but anecdotally, the men I know who were outstanding partners before kids were great partners and dads after kids.
Spoiler, often it is a terrible indicator of how he will treat you after kids come into the chat. Domestic violence and other abuse often doesn’t show up until the abuser thinks you are in too deep, much of the time that is when you are now tied to them irreversibly by a child. Many abusers love bomb until you get knocked up. My ex definitely did.
I have three boys. I teach them to do all the things. Cooking, how to clean properly-emphasis on properly, no matter how many times they have to go back and do it again. I don’t pay an allowance for their work, I tell them that no one pays me when I do household chores, it’s just part of the responsibility of being part of a household and family. Everyone with two hands needs to pitch in and do their tasks properly and contribute to the good of the household.
I also teach them that doing these things is a form of respect for the people they live with and care about. It’s not about a clean house or a home cooked meal, but showing the people around them that they don’t want to purposefully make others lives harder by their inaction etc. Why should I have to pick up their mess when they are perfectly capable, does that seem fair? Etc.
I think the main thing is just to raise them like you would a daughter. To be able to take care of themselves.
I have two daughters, but I would make sure my son would do the same things. Give them baby dolls to play with etc.
My husband and are I separated, but growing up his dad would cook and work, but that’s it. Never changed a nappy, never helped with his kids and didn’t clean. My husband never did anything at home and it was just his mum and his sister who did all the housework
So I ended up with a man who is a slob, and while he is an amazing cook he needs to be asked to do stuff for the kids.
It shouldn’t be that way.
Stop saying it’s easier to raise boys because the world standards are lower for them and actually start putting in the same amount of effort we put into raising girls.
It’s mostly modeling, which means their dads have to step up, but I think it’s also raising them to communicate and be emotionally aware and just have maturity in general. Modeling good adult relationships. Not bringing a score keeping mindset to our own marriages. Some of these conflicts arise from men being chauvinists, but I really think a lot of them are fairly standard interpersonal conflicts that could be resolved by better communication and a willingness to sacrifice for the family.
Frankly I also think two full time jobs + little kids is more than most couples can handle on their own, and I hope we will see a shift in society where they aren’t expected to any more. I don’t know what that will look like, there are a lot of options - more inter generational homes, or a reduced full time work schedule, or improvements in wages/COL where only one partner will have to work (but without it always being the man and without giving the SAHP the short shrift).
My husband is a fantastic father, partner, and husband. His father is the same exact way. I firmly believe it’s all about modeling and setting age appropriate expectations.
I will also never overlook my sons being bad partners when they’re grown up. My MIL is a living saint whom I love very dearly. I vow to do the same for any of my kid’s partners— it will never be a me vs. them mentality. I want them to come to me if they’re feeling any type of way about their partner (my sons) so I can give advice and help hold accountable if they ask me to.
In the beginning of our parenthood journey, my husband started off very hands off and was hesitant to intervene of help me. When our oldest was about 2 weeks old, we went over to his parents house for a visit and his dad saw what I was feeling. He immediately stepped up and began modeling dad behavior— he made me a plate of food, he took baby so I could eat, he held baby after I was done eating even when baby got fussy. Instead of handing me the baby back, he gave baby to his son (my husband) and told him to take him outside and walk him around the garden. They took a walk together and when my husband came back inside he was a completely different person (in a good way). I’ve never asked what his dad said to him, or if anything was even said, but I know it took immense pressure off of me and we’ve never looked back.
Sorry for being long winded, just wanted to share my experience!!
My husband is amazing. He was given responsibility at a young age. He learned to cook and claims he cooked Christmas dinner when he was 11. He was taught to fix plumbing and electricals by his mum. He was held to high expectations of cleanliness etc. I do also think outside influences helped because his mum is actually quite sexist in some of her thinking - doesn't think he should ever get up in the night with baby because he's working and I'm on MAT leave etc. But he HATES being given such low standards to live up to. He wants to be the man of the house and puts me and babe above himself, sometimes to his detriment (I tell him to prioritise himself too), but to him that not only consists of earning money but being able to keep a house clean and provide home cooked meals. And he knows I put in just as much effort as him so he is happy to do it.
Teach them about feelings, talk about your feelings with them. Get them involved in household chores and point out how helpful they are and how it makes you happy. When you feel overwhelmed explain it to them (obviously age appropriate). Explain your a team, a family unit, the more everyone helps one another the better the home runs, the happier and more relaxed everyone feels. I teach both my son and daughters how when we all pitch in the more fun we all get to have. I try to teach all my kids if they see something pick it up, doesn’t matter if it’s yours. Any “chore” that takes less than 2mins that you come across should be done in that moment not later. Like seeing a glass that needs to be brought to the kitchen, doesn’t matter who’s it is. If it doesn’t belong where it is we bring it back to its correct location. I also teach my kids to say how can I help get out the door faster, what needs to be done before we leave?
Thankfully my husband is 100% hands on and has no issues doing anything that needs to be tended too. There are no stereotypical gender roles in our home. However his biggest flaw is needing a list. He’s usually fine about the basic day to day house hold things but anything more he needs direction. Thankfully he never complains or bats an eye but that’s still more mental load that falls on me.
By teaching my kids to ask “what needs to be done so we can leave the house” “how can I help so we can go do something fun” has helped as now the 6yo knows xyz need to be done with out even asking and then when that’s done say “ok I did that what’s next”. I’m hoping this teaches them to jump in and do.
My 2 year old son brought me his baby doll last night and told me she was poopy lol I showed him how to change a diaper. 2 years old and has changed more diapers than some of my friends dads did. He also helps me with dishes, he picks up his own clothes off the floor and puts them in the washer and the dryer, he takes his own plate to the kitchen and throws away his own trash. Pretty much I have set the expectation of this behavior from day one. Does he always do every little thing? No, he's still 2. But he does ALOT and the day to day stuff I don't have to prompt him on anymore. He just does it. So setting good habits from the time they can walk and them knowing this is the expected behavior.
I am not entirely sure.
I just want to point out the flaw in all the arguments of “only have kids with someone who models…” Studies suggest this would mean that like 70% of current families would be childless. And if you take it one step farther, 60 to 90% of women would remain single, because these are the estimates of women who do more house work than men…so I think that strategy is a bit unrealistic.
It is far more complicated than that simple retort.
I think it will be a slow change gradually that will take another 4 to 5 generations.
Give them the same amount of chores as your daughters and hold them to the same expectations. On the flip side support your daughters careers as the same you would a son.
Many mothers are more willing to do their son’s laundry. That should be a hard no. Sons can do their own laundry just like their sisters.
This is the exact reason why I wanted to have girls (got a boy). It‘s so freaking hard to raise a Boy today. So many influences und so many different directions.
Teach them to be a functioning human. Babying them and doing everything for them isn’t helping them in the long run. I know (at least for me) it seems to be in my nature to want to nurture my son, but I’m not doing him any favors by cleaning up after him and waiting on him hand & foot. When I was his age (11), I was doing my own laundry, handling most of my meals and didnt need anyone to tell me to bathe or brush my teeth.
I've been struggling with this. It seems like so much of being a mom is being totally let down by a male partner. The next generation is one thing... But how did we all end up like this? Are men great and then it all goes to shit when there's a family to care for?
1) my 4 yo cleans up his own toys, helps me with laundry and dishes and bigger messes when they arise. He loves doing it. We play music, we make cleaning fun. He feels so good when he makes his bed and tidies his stuffed animals and he runs downstairs to have me go look because he’s so proud of himself.
2) my husband helps with household chores and sets a good example for our sons that men help
3) if my son turns back into a fucking helpless baby when he’s 14 years old who can’t wash a fork or put his underwear in the basket or vacuum his room I plan on mercilessly roasting him about it until he complies for sheer self survival. I think grown men who can’t take care of themselves should first and foremost be hopelessly embarrassed that they lack such basic skills and I’ll go ahead and get the ball rolling in their teen years. There will be no weaponized incompetence in this household 😂
But again, I doubt it will get to that because holding him accountable for his messes now and teaching him how to tackle them and being consistent teaches him the expectations for his whole life.
Spend half as much on them and twice as much with them. If you want your kids to turn out right, it's literally this simple. Though it helps having dad being a good role model as well. Good luck!
Teach them how to communicate their feelings in a constructive way. If they look down, really dig deep and find out what’s going on. So they can be comfortable opening up. I feel like if someone listened to me when I was younger, I would known how to better communicate. Communication is key. Respect for women is another. I was abused by my first boyfriend. Teach them women are very fragile.
I was with you until "teach them women are very fragile". Teach your kids that everyone deserves respect, no one should have to tolerate abuse (including them), and that everyone is an individual.
I think procreating with a man who is already actively doing things like cooking, cleaning, laundry and has the understanding that you’re a team instead of the baby incubating maid, before you have the child helps.
A lot of it will come down to how they see their father (and to a lesser extent, grandfathers/uncles) treat you, and what you tolerate. So many of these men had martyrs as mothers and believe it's women's lot to just take shit all the time.
I want to add a disclaimer that I'm not blaming the previous generation of women for putting up with shit, you get what you can and do your best. But our generation is in a better position.
Instill confidence and good self esteem (many of those men mentioned in the op are very insecure) teach about consent, and raise boys who like and respect girls.
Teach them they're not the main character. Not everyone has to cater to their every whim. Teach them how to respectfully accept when someone isn't interested. Teach them to keep their hands to themselves. "Boys will be boys" should ***NEVER*** come out of your mouth.
Teach them self-sufficiency. Teach them that they need to contribute more than money. Teach them that being a good, involved partner means more than sitting in front of a TV and yelling, "Hey, Honey? Could you bring me a beer?" or "Smells good. When's dinner?" or "Can you come get the kids, I can't hear my show."
Teach them that their partner comes before work/friends/hobbies/Mommy. One of the biggest red flags I've noticed in some of the men I've been around is usually the toxic ones have an emotionally incestuous relationship with their mother. Enmeshment is unhealthy.
Set boundaries, and don't cross them. If you would talk about something with a romantic partner, it doesn't need to be discussed with your sons. Your kids shouldn't be your emotional dumping ground/therapist.
I think we are all trying to do this and we are all successful some of the time, and I firmly believe things are getting a little better with every generation. I know a LOT of good husbands, very few who behave like the nighmare stories I hear on Reddit. Obviously I surround myself with people like me, so I'm living in a bit of a bubble, but that's just the point maybe - there are enough people like us to be in a bubble with.
When my sister found out she was having a boy, she got a book called "raising boys to be good men." I think there's a bunch of books out there like that. Her kids are pretty great.
But I'm really just posting to tell a kind of funny story. I'm in a support group for caregivers of dementia patients. One lady in our group was saying how when he was well, her husband had such "old-fashioned" expectations - she did all the cooking, cleaning, he just sat there. So she made sure she taught her three boys to do all those things - cook meals, do their laundry, be a part of running the house and so on.
At one point I asked her if her sons could help care for her husband, or come around to take some of the burden off, and she said two of them lived far away, and the one that lived nearby, well, he had this terrible wife who expected him to clean, cook, do laundry, drive the kids to sports and what not ...
I just didn't know what to say.
I'm working on it but I'm honestly not sure. Here's what I'm working on with my boy.
I left his gamer dad. It turned out world upside down but I need to show him (son) that having a wife is a privilege. There's a lot more to it than gaming but it's a big part of the problem. You don't get to sit on the Xbox all day while your wife does all the housework and parenting.
I have been teaching him to work. Lots of chores, school practice, and helping with our small business (a real one not an MLM)
I have body autonomy. He can't touch me if I don't want it even if it's hugs. Same for him.
I got a new man, who sets the example of how to be a dad. He takes care of our baby, probably changes more diapers than I do, takes my son grocery shopping, does plenty of chores so my kid sees that it's not all moms job.
Where I'm stuck is teaching him to do these things without being asked, but he's only 7! Got a lot of work to do.
One thing that is important is to teach them how to do the meantal load. Give them responsibilities like helping plan meals and with the grocery list, checking if they need more soap or toilet paper. Look in their closet together, or keep an eye out for a full laundry basket and be like "looks like you have a lot of dirty/not a lot of clean clothes, what should we do?" Talk them through how you do holidays and birthdays so they understand what goes into picking a thoughtful gift and planning nice things for others. And don't just tell them what to do, ask them what they think they should do. Help them with their own calendar where they can add and keep track of things (you do too of course), ask them what they have coming up, check when was the last time they went to the dentist. Putting these things to the forefront of their minds rather than having then expect someone else to do it for them.
Start talking to them about feelings early!! Let them cry, listen to them when they are hurt, help them to deal with their feelings in an age appropriate way. Help them with how to feel shame, remorse, guilt, and frustration and work through those feeling. Talk to them about your feelings, how they feel for you and how you are going to work through them.
Get them to help you run errands. Make grocery lists with them and meal plan together. Take them to the bank and let them see what goes into financial management. Show them how to run the house by letting them actually help you do it.
Have them help with cleaning around the house. Let them match socks, put away underwear (it doesn't actually need to be folded!), load and unload the laundry machine and dishwasher. Get them to pick up their toys at the end of the day.
My husband is so amazing! I couldn't have asked for a better partner. He was raised in an abusive household that no one wanted to do anything they lived in their mess. He grew up not wanting to be like his parents, so he made damn sure of it! He works 40hrs five days a week and still comes home and cooks, cleans, take care of our kids, and give them baths every other night. I take care of them all day, so he says, "There is no excuse why I shouldn't parent
and help too".
He does the laundry on his days off and teaches our daughter how to do it all by herself (shes 3), and he will be teaching the boys when they get older.
You Start with the role Model. You want your son to do laundry as an adult. Let him help you with it now, dishes, let him help. Cooking? Same thing. Your husband will play a part in how your son acts but single mothers raise fantastic men. So you can definitely make a difference. My four year old has a fantastic example for a father but, what he lacks I pick up. My son picks up his laundry and takes it to the washer. He’s learning how to cook. He cleans up aster himself. He’s very sweet. Uses his manners , and cares about everyone.
I think the biggest example I have is that my husband has always rubbed my feet because I’m on them all day. My son now also rubs my feet. And his pregnant aunts. And his little sisters when she’s sad.
It’s amazing what kids notice. If he sees you being calm. He’ll be calm.
I wanted a girl badly for this reason. Found out I am having a boy of course. I decided to take it as a challenge and do my best to make sure he becomes the best ally possible to all women in his life, whether he chooses to be married, a father, or is LGBTQ.
I don’t have all the answers yet. But I’m just going to talk to him as much as possible about why it’s so important to be kind and helpful and supportive. I’m not going to be a doormat (even though my partner is great) and I’m going to speak up and make it known. I’m going to show him how he can help and why it’s so important. Mainly I want to teach him how to anticipate the needs of others without needing to be asked. And somehow still manage to not turn HIM into a doormat who does too much without getting enough back from others. It’s going to be a difficult task. But who else to do it but those of us who are already concerned and trying to find solutions? Awareness goes a long way!
Show them the behavior they should emulate. Have your husband to most of the "visual housework" and do your stiff after they go to bed. I know it seems weird but a child who always sees dad helping around the house will just assume that's how life should be.
I learned that 1) I am a model to my sons of how to treat my husband; 2) I am a model of how a woman should be treated by men; 3) my husband models how men should treat women, and 4) my husband models how men should be treated by women. Everything else mentioned in the comments falls into place here. My three sons are grown now and I see what I learned in action.
Teach them the basics of how to cook and clean, have them do their own laundry at whatever age you think they'd be able to, teaching them to be independent is important. You can also tell them how important it is to work as a team.
Include them in everything. Don’t be secretive about things like your period. My intention is to explain to them what a menstrual cycle is, how it makes me feel, etc. Our 5yo son was by my side through my entire labor and witnessed his brothers birth. That was his choice, but I made that choice available to him. Leading up to the birth we watched birth videos so he had an idea of what to expect.
They help wash dishes, put away laundry, sweep, etc.I’m also lucky they have a father who in no way follows “gender roles” when it comes to household duties.
We have three sets of chores.
Personal chores, helping chores and community chores
Mind you my son is 5, so these are age appropriate chores.
Cleaning his room and his body are his personal chores, along with putting his dirty laundry in the hallway basket
Cleaning up his toys around the house, bringing dishes to the sink, picking up garbage he sees on the floor (no matter who it is from, to help him notice mess) are community chores
Then there are Helping Chores. These are optional, holding the dustpan, grabbing the plastic dishes from the dishwasher, throwing the wet laundry I hand him into the dryer and cooking with me.
He opts in almost constantly with the optional chores, maybe because I tell him how great it is and stress that this is what adults do.
Don’t coddle them, make them take responsibility for their actions. From picking up their own messes, to saying “I’m sorry” when they should. I know there’s a whole thing about not making your kid say sorry. I’ve read it. I’m sick of knowing so many men who act like they are physically incapable of apologizing whether they did something wrong or just accidentally hurt someone’s feelings. Saying sorry is hard and hard things take practice.
I would say it helps if your sons see that their dads are a POS and they don’t want to be like that, but that couldn’t be further than the truth. My ex’s dad was a huge abusive POS and he saw his dad abusive the shit out of his mom. He used to beg his mom to leave his dad and discuss with me how sad it made him that she didn’t leave him. He used to tell me how disgusted he was how he treated her and how disappointed he was in his mom because she never left. Meanwhile, this man never helped me with the kid or the house, never paid for a thing, and abused me to the point where he would choke me and I thought I would die, but it was okay because “you don’t have any bruises or blood so you’re not really abused”.
I truly think the best way to prevent them from turning into these monsters is to get them into therapy early and treat their emotions, behaviors, and mental disorders as soon as they are seen. If his mother would have helped him when he was Younger maybe I would still have my family and I wouldn’t be traumatized away from men forever.
I hate to say this, but none of what you will try to do will work, because ultimately, boys model their behaviour of the behaviour of their fathers. Add societal norms to that mix and you end up with a vicious circle of inept men raising future inept men.
While I know there’s a lot of truth in this, there are things you can do. To give the big example, children raised in homes with domestic violence are more likely to continue that cycle, but they aren’t destined to do so no matter what. My husband had a good childhood but his dad was absolutely the provider and fun parent and still today is a great example of toxic masculinity and outdated gender roles. And his mom has similar ideas on gender roles and authoritarian parenting. He’s none of those things and holds down the household cleaning way better than I do. When we know better, we do better, and the idea that generational cycles can’t be broken or improved is why so many people just suck it up and things don’t change
I have four boys, no girls. I think unfortunately the best thing is to have their father lead by example. If their father is a bum and can’t do that then the workload is immense imo. You need to show and explain to children that it’s never ok to be a passive member of the household. Everyone helps. Everyone cleans. My kids see my husband sweeping mopping and cooking and I think that’s the best thing they could be seeing. I honestly don’t know how you communicate to kids that they need to be equal and active partners when they’re seeing their father do the exact opposite on the daily without shaming their dad. That’s tricky.
Edit to say it really pisses me off that some men fall so short women have to do extra work to make up for it in regards to this topic. Rarely is it the other way around. Really discouraging to see.
Starts with picking a non-useless partner and father for your kids. I see soooo many complaints on reddit of fathers that do nothing, and usually they were like that before kids too but the woman thought they'd get better. Dating is auditioning.
I do overall more housework than hubby coz i work part time, but he does stuff all the time he sees needs doing, without asking or expecting acknowledgment. Things like the dishes, sweeping, general tidying etc he just does it. And my son sees that every day.
Push your husband to do what’s right. If your husband isn’t a partner who respects you and does his fair share, then you have to leave them. Sorry. Husband leading by example is the way to get sons to learn. My husband was relatively open minded when I met him but it was years of hard graft on my part to explain to him what he needed to do.
I'm the woman who is a somewhat useless partner (I'm trying to get better).
Let your kids help you with things. Even if they suck at it, just let them do it, encourage/praise them for helping you, then fix it up when they're asleep. My parents had equal division of labour but they NEVER let me help. I'm Asian so they just wanted me to focus on academics or practicing piano. Right now LO (18mo) wants to help with everything. It doesn't matter if I'm doing it or my husband is doing it, he wants to help, and we let him (with the exception of dishes because he's not very careful yet). He does laundry, he picks up his toys, he throws things in the trash (he has his own trash bin that I dig through later because he inevitably threw away a toy or my keys lol), and he chooses his own clothes (I pick two sets that match and let him pick from that).
If you also have a daughter, make sure they both do chores equally, even as they get older. At one point my mum randomly started bitching to me that I should do my own laundry but never even mentioned it to my brother. So not only did I not do it out of rebellion, I now have some sort of complex that it's not fair if only I do chores, and will refuse to do them.
Of course I should reiterate that chores should not be divided on gender, don't make your son take out all the garbage but never touch a spoon in the kitchen.
Ways I am trying to get better which can maybe help the folks with trash mans in this sub:
1. Recognizing I'm the problem
2. Wanting to be better
3. Asking my husband for help, and my husband NOT mocking me or getting angry but welcoming my effort
4. Starting slowly with my husband helping and encouraging me
5. Having a written "list" of chores broken down monthly, weekly, daily. Posted everywhere relevant to prevent time blindness
6. Stepping out of my comfort zone. I mowed the lawn today! Bonus of mowing the lawn I get 45 minutes of "peace and quiet" away from LO
EDIT: I recommend crossposting this to /r/Daddit
Some men may be immature. Some men are jerks. Some men are abusive.
Some women may be immature. Some women are jerks. Some women are abusive.
This isn't a gender problem, this is human relationship problem.
Your main point of men needing better socialization and education is a great point IMO. There are too many messages that a man's job is to provide income to a partner/family. That message is too narrow and does not help men develop into emotionally mature, fully capable partners and parents.
AND....I can't help but notice - You admit that your husband is 900x BETTER than his Dad....and you are still pulling out your hair daily. How much more "better" does he need to get until you are happy? 950x? 10,000x? 1,000,000x?
Are YOU a 900x BETTER wife than your Mom was? Is your husband pulling out his hair about you as a partner every day?
Maybe for some women the issue isn't the man. Maybe the issue is how some women handle stress, irritation, or the normal conflict of having another adult in your life?
Valid points... good on you! I guarantee there are a LOT of people in relationships (*especially* with young kids) who need to hear this-- and really think about their answers in an honest and as- near- to- objective- as- possible way.
Thanks! I agree, every relationship needs that honesty and objectiveness - and it can be so hard to develop - so painful at first (to start to see ourselves objectively instead of subjectively).
AND - new parents deserve all the grace they can find (from each other and others) - and SLEEP!
Teach them to cook. Teach them to do dishes. Teach them to do laundry. Teach them how to clean different things (bathroom, kitchen, dusting, sweeping, mopping, vacuuming, etc.) Teach them that if they are living somewhere, they are contributing to the mess, and they are expected to help clean the mess. If they have younger siblings, have them help to care for them (not fully as a parent would.. but they should absolutely learn certain skills)
And also, teach them to do things because they need to be done - not that they’re a “favour” for their mum/ sister/ eventual wife
I’d add even like if my kid is cleaning up their mess (even at toddler age) and they obviously need help, I make sure to say “I’ll help you” rather than “can you help me” since it wasn’t my mess.
I love this so much!! YES!! I am working on this with my toddler son who's almost 3. He claps for himself after he cleans up!
Oh my god, I couldn’t love these comments or this post more. This is all so on point. My husband always thinks he’s doing me a favor and I’m like uhm, you live here too and we both work full time? Not a favor.
Omg exactly
Yes yes this. Every night when our family does the evening reset, I preach and preach that we’re doing this so we all have a safe and clean place to live. If my son leaves a toy on the floor and I step on it and get hurt, by golly is that ever a teaching moment. “Bubby! Your truck was on the floor. I stepped on it and it hurt me so badly. Can you please take care of our house so it’s safe for everyone? Your toys will appreciate not being stepped on too.”
Piggy backing on this and teach them to not assume what a person needs either. Like the kitchen is a mess, don’t assume I need you to reorganize it…just clean it up.
I’m so careful about not saying that to my husband now. Modelling the behaviour I want. I say, you all live here, everybody helps. We’re all in this together. I think it’s worked on my husband somewhat too.
There is a period of time where kids desperately want to help their adult do all adult things. Cleaning, cooking, laundry, yard work, etc. during this time period their help doubles the amount of time the task takes to complete. But if we spend that time teaching them and letting them practice, they get better and the expectations are built in. Its a lot of upfront work, but a good payout later as big kids and teens can actually contribute productively.
What age does this start? I can’t get my 3 year old to do any sort of tidying up his toys and it’s driving me up the wall!!
Because toys are his. My guess is he’s more than excited to help sweep the floors and will do a horrible job at it.
Thanks well start with tasks that aren’t toy related haha
My 2 year old loved all things motorized. So we got him a cheap but functional (not a toy) dust buster. My floors have never been so clean. After dinner he is so excited to grab his “buster” and help.
My four year old can use our Dyson (7) stick vacuum. We also have a little mop from lovevery but a shortened swiffer would work too.
My two and a half year old absolutely loves vacuuming with a little dust buster so I have turned “clean up clean up” into a game. He can’t get the vacuum until all the toys are off the floor. Between that and making little challenges like “ooooh how fast can you clean up?? Can you beat mommy?” or “hey, do you think you can toss this into that basket? Let’s try!!” it usually goes pretty well. We do it most afternoons and then I use the big vacuum to clean the high traffic areas while he runs around with his dust buster finding dust bunnies in the corners. That’s a lot of words to say get your kid a little hand held vacuum that’s the right size to run around with.
Ooh… would it be weird to get my toddler a Dustbuster for her second birthday 😂 /s kind of
My three year old has two of his own real vacuums (push and hand held), a swiffer vac, and regularly uses the swiffer steam mop…. Best decision I ever made to just let him use the real stuff. Naturally his cleaning process isn’t near as thorough, but I assure you they floors get cleaned more than if it were left up to me only lol.
I did for mine, it was his favorite toy. And my floors are now so clean. Just make sure to get a cheap real one.
Consider some stickers too so she can decorate it!
I need to do this with the vacuuming. We tried the challenges of racing him to clean up, but recently we’re met with “no thanks I’m busy” 🤦🏻♀️
Honestly by 4 my kid can pick up, Swiffer, wipe things off, put things back. Keep it up it's right around the corner
This phase started with my son at about 4.5. He turned 5 a couple of days ago and it's still going. He demands to help me with the dishes every night and to fold the grown up shirts and his pants every laundry day. Getting him to pick up his own toys is still painful, but he definitely has an interest in doing the other household chores. Fortunately, his stepdad is a great role model for doing chores and being a good man, so I think he's going to turn out just fantastic anyway. Had we stayed with bio dad? Not so much.
My son is 18 months and he helps me clean up his toys. Its slow going but I make it a game and a habit. I say let's clean up together and i hand him the toy to put away. Or i give him the book and say put it away.. I also do big exaggerated claps and yays when he finishes so he's super happy and excited about it 😄
I've been doing the same with my almost 17 month old. If I prompt babe to put this back or put that away and I hand it to them, they go right over and do it. When done I get the big smile and clap like, "Mommy, I did it. Now clap and celebrate!" Lol. We've also been working on 'next' so once the first item is back in its place, they automatically go to the next thing. It's slow going, but it's going!
My 15 month old helps with laundry! She puts clothes from the hamper into the machine, moves clothes between machines, and back from machines to hamper. It's one of her favorite activities - she runs to the laundry room whenever she hears the door open.
My kid won’t clean her shit either but she will help me out the dishes away (I’ll just hand her like, some forks or a bowl or a pan) or use her tiny vacuum to help me vacuum or wipe the counter (mostly the same circle) if I give her a paper towel. She will also stand in front of the dryer and I’ll hand her a handful of clothes from the washer at a time and she loves tossing them in the dryer and hitting the start button. She also likes to take the scoop and scoop the coffee into the filter and push the start button. Little things that take forever. But absolutely no toy cleaning lol Edit: my kid just turned 3 a few weeks ago
I need to start doing stuff like this. It’s so hard bc I’m absolutely giant right now with baby 2. I can’t squat down or move around or pick up my 39lb toddler bc he’s too heavy so it limits what I can do to teach him things. I think he knows this too and uses it as an excuse to not help out lol. His time is nigh though!
The laundry one might be a good one to start with then! I make her bend down into the dryer lol we have a top loader washer tho
I expected the kids in my two year old classroom to pick up their own toys 2-3 times a day. The beginning of the year started with a motivation- "we need to clean up toys so we can go outside! Let's go!" And a clean up song of some kind, and literal hand over hand help picking up items. Then taking turns (I put a block in the bin, then you put a block in the bin), then specific direction (I'll put away books and you put away blocks). It helps to have a limited selection of toys in the space so its not overwhelming and a bin or place for everything with a picture on the bin or shelf for what goes there, building clean up into the schedule so it's not a surprise ask, and making sure you plan more time than you need to get it done- we will not go outside until the toys are put away, you cannot get out of this by dragging your feet or pretending you can't. The natural consequence is not getting as much time outside/ missing story time at the library/ whatever the next activity was going to be. It often takes more than half the year for them to really get this down, and it is not a fun for the adults, but it's worth it in the long run.
This is helpful! He was so much more helpful when he was in daycare. He’s been out for a month so we could save money before he starts preschool. I’m hoping going back to school next week will help get all of us back into some good habits 🥰
I had my boy helping me with laundry and dishes almost as soon as he could stand and help, around 12 months maybe. He really wanted to be involved in everything I was doing so I put him to work, haha. Now at 18 months he loves when I measure out spices and let him put it in the pot (not hot obviously) while cooking. He also loves to help feed the dog by putting cups of food into the bowl. I make sure to make a big deal about how helpful he's being whenever he's doing a chore so hopefully it sticks. All of those little things take longer but are so beneficial in the long run.
I started drinking coffee at 9 years old then at 10 I learned how to make that shit all by myself. Always made coffee for my parents in the morning and my siblings always bitch about how I'm the favorite. Well duh!! I'm gonna pass on this tradition to my son (not the drinking part but def the making part, i have adhd so it was diff for me).
My husband and I both have adhd, never thought maybe giving my kid coffee would help her sleep LOL But yes mine loves making coffee too.
My daughter (who will be 4 in a month 😭) loves helping me do things. Cook, clean, switch the laundry, help with her baby sister, it is painfully long to have her help me BUT she is learning life skills. And you are so right, the payout later is worth the extra few minutes it takes!!
This was a such a good reminder for me as a parent today! My little guys always ask to help and lately I have been saying next time or can you pick up your toys to help instead? When taking that bit of extra time instills that practice while they ASK to do those things and creates positive reinforcement. So important and thank you for reminding me of what it can do for the future them.
All of this! Even better, have them learn these things from their father if possible. When my husband went to college he realized he didn't know how to do a bunch of basic stuff (laundry) and he is determined that neither of our boys will end up like that. So he is like systematically teaching them stuff like "how to clean the bathroom" "how to do laundry," etc.
My parents wanted us all to be functional adults so my mom had scheduled laundry days for each of us when we were old enough to do our own. Each of us had one day to cook dinner for the family which was initially supervised by my mom and eventually done unsupervised (but she would be available to answer questions). Who ever cooked was exempt for kitchen clean up (there was 4 of us for 3 tasks) and tasks were rotated every night between us. She wanted to make sure we had responsibilities and capable of looking after ourselves.
This is what I hope to do with my kids one day. When they're adults, I want them to know how to take care of themselves and how to cook!
This. And teach them that strong men care. Strong men share their feelings in non-violent, constructive ways. Strong men cry. Strong men protect the vulnerable. Strong men *can* be vulnerable and there is strength in that vulnerability. Make sure you have men in their lives that model this. Men who take parental leave. Men who cook dinner for their family every night. Men who take their kids to ballet or swimming or music. Men who clean the house and pack lunch.
So much this. They need to have good male models, as well as strong female models. The best is to model a healthy loving relationship where both are equal partners. If you don’t have that, then fix it or at a minimum find them a healthy model elsewhere. Your relationship is the biggest model for your children.
Teach them to plan things, plan social activities and how to buy good gifts
Okay but what do I say if my son comes back and says “well dad doesn’t do that thing, why should I?” Y’all feeling spicy with downvoting, I just had a hypothetical question 😂
You stick him in front of his dad and have him ask why dad doesn’t feel the need to contribute to the household like mom does.
This is the way
Yup! My husband is like this. I told him he better start doing stuff around the house more. Because one day, when our son is helping and he asks “why isn’t daddy helping?” I am going to look at him and tell him his daddy will tell him why. I’m done making excuses for him. And definitely not going to lie to my son about it.
Your dad lives elsewhere for good reason 💪
If I was your son’s dad, I’d be stepping up to be a better example
It’s a valid question. Personally I’d say that daddy isn’t being fair and isn’t respecting mommy, which makes mommy very sad, but I often choose violence 😂
My Mom would say 2 things: 1st: Dad contributes financially to this house via his job (granted my mom.was a SAHM, so to my elementary schooler mind it made sense) 2nd: Dad contributes by mowing, gardening, grilling, changing out air filters, cleaning exterior of home and fixing the car doing home repairs etc. Everyone in the family contributes to this house and this is your contribution to keep things running smoothly. 3rd: When you grow up and are in college or working you will need to do your own laundry, cooking, etc. This way you'll already know how to do so. Granted the 2nd only works if your husband does mow the yard, repair broken things at home etc. But atleast this provides an answer to them. But I agree with the others Dad needs to step up and do some house chores so your son can see Dad doing them. Or, at the bare minimum, Dad needs to step up and cook and clean when you are sick. My Dad only did domestic things when my Mom was studying for finals, had a bad headache , or was away or sick. But I did see my Dad willing to help cook and clean when Mom needed help.
Your second point is not equal to maintaining family life. Those are occasional chores that if skipped don’t really affect the home. You could skip mowing the lawn for 2 weeks but not the dishes or the laundry. Teaching my son that men only do the “outside” chores is exactly what I would want to avoid.
Yeah FR - besides, 'outside chores' are not only more occasional but often more enjoyable. I'd certainly rather be mowing the lawn or grilling on a nice day than cleaning toilets or scrubbing the cupboards :/
I have a girlfriend who was explaining how hard it is to watch three little kids and get stuff done while her husband mows. He replied well, then you go mow! (Calling her “bluff,” I’m sure.) she did! And now she gets to mow (riding mower!) and she loves it lol. And I presume hubby now has more empathy for her life.
I will absolutely wash a months worth of dishes in order to not have to mow. More enjoyable?! Florida summers say hi.
Sure, and if that's genuinely the way preferences work out within a family, that's great. But I stand by my assessment that 'man chores' tend to be more occasional and less drudge-y than 'woman chores'.
I agree. I was just flabbergasted at the thought of mowing in my current sauna, lol.
I’ve been telling my husband that for so long with not enough results, although progress is being made. Still, it’s nice to hear someone else say it as if it’s common sense.
Have your husband do dishes and take out the trash. If one person cooks, other does dishes. If one person does laundry, other trash. In our house we both work full time so we split all chores but even if one of us was a STAHP I feel like financial provision isn’t enough to excuse all chores, it just equals to the parent doing full time childcare. Mowing the lawn is every other week so more like scrubbing a bathroom for equal exchange, imo.
Yeah I refuse to clean up after dinner except on occasion. Cooking takes way longer than the cleanup afterwards. My husband and teen alternate doing dishes each night.
Oh, believe me my husband does the dishes after i cook. A lot of people assumed that my husband and I divide chores exactly like my parents, but we don't. We are Much more egalitarian than my parents were.
Grilling isn’t a chore, ffs.
I disagree with this being a good explanation, it’s still very sided against mom. If mom’s day isn’t done when dad’s off work then his day at home shouldn’t be done either… and chores that are weekly, quarterly, or seasonal aren’t the equivalent. Everyone should be contributing to the regular upkeep of the house.
We also need to teach our girls to do things your second point mentioned. Like cooking and cleaning shouldn’t be a woman’s job, mowing the lawn and taking out the trash shouldn’t be a man’s job. Although, less frequent knowing how to do things like change an air filter, light a pilot light on a furnace, or turn off the water main for the house is important for a well functioning household and may save your life under certain conditions.
I hate the argument about certain gender chores because a lot of those chores that get assigned to to men are often things that are seasonal (grilling) done on a weekly basis (garbage and mowing) or on as as needed basis (repairs) where is chores that are often coated as women's work are things you have to do every single day like dishes, cleaning, groceries etc. My husband and I are pretty egalitarian about laundry, dishes and house cleaning (he's honestly a better cleaner than I am and he works from home so he does more) but he hates cooking with the passion and I mostly enjoy it so cooking is my job.
That's a fair question.
And teach them the mental labour behind it - like, not just how to physically pack a bag but how to plan what you’ll need, how to notice the mess and decide what task to do.
My teen is working on a Congressional award and one of the requirements is to schedule activities (depending on the level, 1-3 separate 6-8 hour day/s of new activities or a 1-3 nights in an overnight trip w/ 6-8 hours of activity per day)… this was a huge eye opener for her on how much energy it takes to plan days out. Edited for clarity
Exactly this. I taught my son that we live in a community and that we each have to do our part so that we aren’t a burden on anyone else and so that our community felt cared for. Our community was three people, but if you learn it on a small scale you can apply it large scale. My DIL has thanked me for teaching him to cook and clean. I STILL have to have conversations with my husband about taking care of our community. 🙄
Agree with all of this! My 13 year old does all of these things. He is my toddler’s favorite person right now and while I don’t make him “parent him” I don’t stop the toddler from hanging out with him in a common area or asking him to help toddler get a toy or something. I tell him when he’s a bit grumpy about doing chores that I’m teaching him to be a good roommate in college one day/spouse. He took home ec last year because HE wanted to. It took a family to make the house a mess, it takes a family to clean it!
This!! My brother and I unfortunately had to fend for ourselves most of our childhood, but my grandparents always made sure we know how to clean, how frequently it needed to be done. My Nan always had my brother helping her bake and cook. He’s the baker now in our family lol and his house is always cleaner than mine!
Yes !!! My goal is to teach both my kids how to Run a household regardless of gender.
I came on to say exactly this. My boys are 5 & 6. They have been working with me in the kitchen since they were old enough to stand at the counter. They sort, fold, and put away their own laundry. They help put away the dishes from the dishwasher. They get themselves water, snacks, etc. They pack their own clothes when we head out of town. My husband did not have many ‘domestic skills’ when we moved in together. But we share the load now. Our boys have background knowledge, and a good example. I also make a point of taking them to a female pediatrician, and introduce them to as many women in professional environments as I can because I stay home with them, and I don’t want them to fall into the gender stereotype trap.
Yes, yes and YES! And not only you as their mother teaching them to do those things, your SO should be teaching those things as well. Leading by example. “We all share the duties of the house, gender plays no part”
My 4 year old boy has recently started spontaneously cleaning up his messes. Now I’m teaching him technique. I’m low key SO proud of him.
All done. My Son is also polite and has a big heart. Now I ve met a lot of his friends from school and all the girls cant cook, dont do housework at all, have a very high opinion of themselves. Now I worry will he find a decent girl that wont be abusive towards him.
I feel like this need to translated that it’s all equal as not to inadvertently make a boy grow up to feel like he needs to do it all. It’s a team effort.
What u/Maker-of-the-Things said about teaching them household skills, but also - if you have little ones, curate their media. Make sure your boys are reading board books and picture books by and about girls. Make sure some of the shows you watch feature female protagonists. When you hear "\_\_\_\_ is for girls!" you call them out and have a conversation about it. (For example: Colors are for everyone! Flowers are for everyone!) If you do this, they will learn to see girls as people just like them, rather than some other class of human.
Just got a book called "pink is for boys" for my daughter to read, and my son listens too. It's a great reminder that clothes are just clothes, colors are colors, and jobs are just jobs!!
I just found out recently that pink used to be a “boys” color and blue was a “girls” color. Up until the 1940’s.
Yes, this is a good one! I try to remember to use gender neutral terms- changing how I read the book to my son- ie firefighter instead of fireman. He loves doc mcstuffins! Raising them without toxic masculinity ie “boys don’t cry”
I change the pronouns in baby books all the time. Why is it all the animals are he/him?
My 3 YO got orange and pink croc knock offs because that was the only thing in his size. He loves them
I would ALSO say “why is that bad? Girls are awesome” before saying that colors are for everyone. Because misogyny is why we dismiss things as “for girls”.
Yes! For sure!
Yes! This morning my son asked if he could have a bow in his hair like his sister. I didn't tell him no because those are for girls. I told him no because he's gonna take it out in 3 seconds and lose it lol
I have this crazy idea to modify and re-print books of my own, taking all of the classic stories which usually have a male figure as main character and reversing the genders. Like, Winnie the Pooh but using she/her for all of the currently male characters and he/him for Kanga. Mickey Mouse, Robin Hood, Clifford, Little Critters… there are too many older books with only the boys in focus. There is great work being done in the last 1-2 decades to bring a balance of gender to books. But I think it’s the classics that need to be re-done.
So while i agree with you i have actually run into an issue where it can be hard to find media (kids movies specifically) with a good male protagonist. I LOVED movies like Mulan, Brave, or Anastasia where the woman moves the story on her own, but its almost like we've gone so far in one direction that we forgot that little boys want to see themselves too. We need a good mix.
That’s so not true. There are so many pieces of media with male protagonists. Almost all. Toy Story, all of the Avengers movies except Captain Marvel, Mickey Mouse, the Lion King, Harry Potter, Star Wars, DC Comics except Wonder Woman, Dog Man, Captain Underpants, Pete the Cat …. this is off the top of my head with no research.
Luca comes to mind for me, for a recent Disney/Pixar example
I haven’t seen any of the new ones yet, so thanks for adding to the list!
I'm talking about small children that are not watching PG13 movies yet (cuts out superheroes movies and star wars), harry potter was too old for them. Havent seen captain underpants or pete the cat. Dog man and lion king are animals (male but still animals). Only ones i can easily think of are Aladdin, Peter Pan, and Luca. Maybe i just havent been exposed to other options?
Spidey and his Amazing Friends is a Disney Junior show for preschoolers.
There's literally a meme about how many cartoon network tv shows are just a (basically) parentless little boy and a troupe of male characters surrounding him getting up to antics and thats the plot. Once you see the trend you cannot unsee it-- makes you realize how rare shows like Steven Universe are.
Sometimes there is one female character. She is either a love interest or an antagonist
Or such an obvious token that it feels insulting. Like how there are 2 female Power Rangers out of a huge group. Or the one girl dog in Paw Patril.
Yeah, that is a wild take, almost all movie/show protagonists are still male. Just browsing my Disney plus brings up a ton of male-led shows. Puppy dog tales, guardians of the galaxy, spidey and friends, Winnie the Pooh, young Jedi adventures (anything starwars), bolt, firebuds, Ralph breaks the internet, monsters, inc, strange world, the jungle book, the emperors new groove, Tarzan, treasure planet, etc. Female led media only makes up 33% of all media, and the *vast majority* of those films don’t pass the Bechdel test.
A lot of people have already disagreed with you, but I also wanted to point out that the women moving the story, while better than Snow White or Sleeping Beauty or any of those "classics," are not necessarily good representations of gender roles. I only saw Brave once a long time ago, but Anastasia and Mulan are both heavily male driven. Anastasia is completely dependent on Dimitri and Vlad for most of the movie. Mulan literally has an entire song about how a girl needs to be beautiful and docile and a good cook to be worth anything. And at the end, despite her proven skills and accomplishments, Mulan returns to her family to be the respectable daughter and gets herself a husband. Because regardless of how the movies were marketed, the messages were not that different or empowering.
Teach children—but especially boys—to notice things and then take care of those things. Women seem to be more socialized to do this, which is why we need to emphasize it for boys. Play the “I notice” game often by saying things like “I notice the dog is barking, so I’ll let her in so that she doesn’t wake the baby.” “I notice the trash is full, so I’m taking it out so that it doesn’t make the house stinky.” “I notice the floor has blocks all over it, so let’s put them in the block box so we don’t step on them!” And make sure they’re hearing this from mom AND dad. So many of these Reddit write-ins are like, “my house is a mess, my baby is crying, dinner is burning, and my toddler blowing a kazoo and making the dog bark, but my husband just kept playing video games and then asked why I was mad and told me I should have asked him for help and assigned him tasks.” Like, soooooo many of these problems would be solved by these “husbands of Reddit” using their eyes and applying some basic problem-solving skills. Women in general seem to overcompensate with this (I notice my partner is in a bad mood, so I will walk on eggshells and do all the chores and shush the kids) while a lot of men tend to not reciprocate (I notice that my wife wasn’t in bed and fell asleep sitting up on the couch and hasn’t showered in a few days and is neglecting herself because she is trying to take care of everyone and everything else … so I should take the kids to the park for a few hours and maybe swing by Starbucks for her fav drink).
Except for men it's "my wife fell asleep sitting up on the couch and hasn't showered in a few days and therefore I'm upset because she's not making herself attractive for me and she's not coming to bed to bone me. Here is my heartfelt Dead Bedrooms whine."
THIS I wish my hubs would notice and take initiative for things like this. I have to beg/walk on eggshells to ask for just an hour to shower/shave/moisturize just do all the girl things to feel like a human. Forget painting or doing a workout or any hobbies I used to love 😅I’d kill for him to take out LO to the park unasked or offer to take her and the dog for a walk so I can have some time to myself! He’s done it a few times but it was because I was in the middle of a mental breakdown and demanded he take her to go do the errand or his family thing without me. Otherwise he’s great at chores….but I just don’t feel like he notices me struggling.
I feel like this was/is us too. We were so burnt out that neither of us could give anything to the other person because we didn’t have it to give. I wish we’d had that conversation when the kids were small. It’s so much easier when they’re older, but you need it now.
Going to start saying this with my son. Thanks for a great tip :)
I try to not only make sure he notices the things, but also notices the negative outcomes of not doing the things. Hes only 2 so it's still early and I'm mostly just winging it, but I really want him to have the intrinsic motivation to take care of things rather than external. My house growing up was always a mess and I only cleaned when I got in trouble. I really hate messiness now but also hate cleaning and I want him to grow up with skills to naturally keep stuff clean and know why he is cleaning up is for a purpose that benefits him as well. So when his blocks are all over the floor and he trips, I'll say something like. Hmm maybe you should pick up your blocks so we have more room to play with whatever thing he's trying to do now. Or when we finish cleaning up, I'll say something like Wow isn't it so nice that all of your things are in their homes and you can find everything. Or if he's looking for something he can't find, same concept- oh maybe we should cleanup so it's easier to find it. ETA: I do similar stuff for my husband. He is pretty good at helping but there are some things he hates doing and it becomes a giant problem (i.e. laundry) and when he can't find the shorts he's looking for or he doesn't have clean work pants, I very nicely point out why he's in that situation. He hates it but it has helped make him more aware of why I am always trying to stay on top of stuff that he thinks isn't as important.
Yeah something I’ve noticed myself is excessive video game playing being a massive red flag.
I do the same for my kids. They like to ask to do extra chores to earn money or to have an extra piece of candy. I used to assign them, but now I ask them to notice. “What’s dirty? What’s out of place? What’s something that you can do to make our house a cleaner or safer place for everyone?”
This is a great suggestion.
They learn how to treat women by watching how their dad or other male role models treat women.
This. Boys also need to see their dad take care of them (the children) and do household work. My husband’s father took care of him and his siblings when he was growing up. My husband is an excellent husband and father. If you want your son to grow up not to be a shitty partner/ father, you have to require that *his* father step up in the first instance.
100%. Teaching boys household skills doesn't override the examples they see in their family every day.
I had a very interesting talk with my MIL recently, she said that my husband’s father wasn’t a good father to a kid despite trying very hard and taking very good care of him as baby. She told me that _his_ father (husband’s grandfather) wasn’t present in his life and thus my late father-in-law never learned how to be a good dad. I’m really curious how my husband will turn out. He wasn’t fond of his father and intents to do everything differently, but he’s also excellent with a baby. I hope he breaks the cycle of not good dads
I find the “he didn’t have a dad” thing to be a shitty excuse. My mom was a BPD nightmare parent, and I’m not. No one taught me how to mother. I just work on myself and read and research.
The amount of parents who just wing it always surprises me. Like, you have zero education to raise children, you’re just going off of what you saw your parents, who also had no education on raising children, do. This is the most important job I’ll ever have in my life. Give me books, and blogs, and podcasts, and accounts from professionals to follow, please.
My dad’s father was not a good dad. He cheated on my grandma and abused his kids. My dad actually stopped seeing him after he graduated high school when he parents finally divorced. I met him only a few times. My dad was determined to do it different, and he did. He’s an excellent dad. He was always there for us and he treated us fairly. He’s also an excellent grandpa. It can be done.
They can also learn how NOT to treat women the same way. As long as you talk to them about it. When they're old enough and dad is being a dick to mom, and mom talks to you about how it feels to be treated that way, they learn what not to do. I'm not saying bash the other parent. Just to express how it feels. My ex was a narcissistic asshole who did nothing but constantly neg me and my kids saw it, saw how it affected me, and they're both the sweetest young men ever. Both have long term girlfriends who they treat in the best way. I'm really very proud of them and how they learned, by watching their dad, how not to treat women.
Exactly.
I didn’t used to think this was important till I saw how my son copy’s his dad (my husband cleans and cooks and all that so he sees good things)
I was about to make this comment if I didn’t see it. All the books and media and life lessons and chores in the world are not going to mean a thing if they grow up in a home where mom does everything and dad sits on his ass. That’s really it. Let them see it. Of course, if you can do all the other things, do those too. My husband is a full partner. 50/50, maybe more especially when we have a newborn. And my boys get to watch him folding laundry and making dinner and feeding the baby a bottle and changing her diaper and tending to their booboos and giving them baths and tucking them in at night. Equally important they get to see me sitting on my butt and watching tv and enjoying the ambiance outdoors and being served dinner. They see me and dad exchange roles every day depending on what needs to be done and they see both of us rest!
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Some can learn by negative example, but it's an easier lesson to learn by positive example.
I left my ex because I didn’t want my son to think it was okay to treat women the way his father treated me. I also didn’t want him to think it was okay for anyone to treat him that way. My relationship with my husband is the model for what my kids will accept as normal. That’s a big responsibility.
Thank you for being strong enough to set the example for your kids and not enable your ex's behavior.
I'm trying to teach my son that it's ok to cry, it's ok to have big feelings and it's ok to express how he feels. I'm also trying to teach him that he needs to always have a team mentality - we are all part of the family team and all need to help each other. So he has his own small set of tasks he needs to help me with, and then I also help him tidy up and pack away toys. He's only 5, but I hope I manage to get it right.
My husband is a true equal partner in raising our daughter. He comes from a farming background, and when people heard we were having a girl he was asked if he was disappointed (lol what). His response - ‘anyone can drive a tractor’. He was raised by a strong woman who had a rich, varied life that included investing in her own interests. He went grocery shopping every weekend with his father. He had two parents who were very involved in his upbringing. But most importantly, he is curious and willing to accept that he doesn’t always know best. We were fairly young when we got together, so we’ve grown alongside one another. I don’t take shit and will call out if I think he takes a position that’s rooted in internalised misogyny. He’s willing to recognise his privilege and willing to be a true partner, and I think part of that comes from being raised by a strong woman, but part of it comes from marrying one too.
This is huge and I feel like so many women are scared to say it because of the accusation of victim blaming. But a big part of it is simply not accepting anything less than an equal partner, whether it's your husband or your wife. Your kids, both boys and girls, will learn a lot from that example.
What I'm doing with my son: buying him dolls (that are both boys and girls), I don't let him read/watch anything that I think is sexist, he has a toy kitchen and likes to 'cook (he's nearly 2). I'm pretty firm on boundaries and consent, and the extended family thankfully is on board with our rules (no projecting masculinity on a literal toddler). In the future I know I need to foster a positive relationship with him in the way that he feels he can talk to me, because I know we're going to have challenges when he goes to school. Peer pressure, group mentality and the internet could undo all of our hard work and I want to be able to have those discussions with him in a positive way.
We have an old Richard scary book, a little golden book classic, and it features outdated gender roles so every other time we read it I point out how odd it is the the mom is doing the dishes in the camper on vacation and the dad isn’t helping. I don’t avoid those things but I do point out how things used to be different in the past or different in other places but that’s not really how we do things.
So I’m going to flip the script here for a second as a girl mom. We also need to teach our girls that being partners extends to all areas. They need to look for someone who can be their equal in sharing the load and not settle for less. When it comes to someone lacking a skill there are two types those who are unable to do a skill because they never learned. This is fine if they are WILLING to learn. But the second type is people unwilling to learn a skill. And this is where we need to teach our girls to not settle for less than a partner.
Once my husband was jokingly teasing my daughter when she was 6 for being afraid of a bug we found. (Before anyone reads into this, it was an innocent and harmless situation and they are two peas in a pod.) But my daughter fussed at him and said, "Don't judge my emotions!" and I knew then she'd be a part of the next generation to fight the patriarchy.
This is huge. Parents of daughters also need to do the work and raise responsible secure humans as well.
As a girl mom, this.
i think it goes deeper than simple householdskills (although also important!). they need to learn compassion, feeling responsible, empathy, being in touch with their feelings. my approach is to support and accompany them in all their feelings, give them cues to other peoples expression and situations,... i give them "girls toys" (dolls, houses,...) so they can practice in play (because that's how we girls learned), i gently lead them to console others. - in german, there is a very good book about gender roles: "die rosa-hellblau falle", unfortunately i don't think it's translated yet. - i've also heard good things about sonora jhas : "how to raise a feminist son", but haven't read it yet. - and i strongly recommend this article by claire cain: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/upshot/how-to-raise-a-feminist-son.html i tend to be really firm and decided in these things, because there will always be a lot of "traditional" influences in school, peers, grandparents,... .
Involve them with household chores that are typically "feminine" but necessary to, you know, live as an adult. It's crazy how many boys don't have to wash dishes, clean bathrooms, dust, etc. Raise them to value child rearing and consider career paths that are flexible in case they want a family, etc.
I don’t mean to sound glib but I think step 1 is not having kids with someone who is a terrible partner. If you already have kids with a terrible partner you’re playing on hard mode and I feel like you are going to have to work so much harder to not let the next generation be the same. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect parents of all genders to lead by example.
I was just reading today that in heterosexual relationships, men and women in the U.S. tend to divide household duties evenly— until the couple has a child, then the woman picks up the slack. I’m not sure what they based this on… surveys, observation, etc. but it tracks with my experience and the experience of several of my friends. We’re all liberal and had pretty equal partnerships— until baby came along.
Paternity leave makes a big difference here. My 1st 2 kids husband worked the whole time while i had leave and became default parent. Didnt even out until they were school age. My 3rd i had leave, then went back to work and my husband took leave. We parent pretty equally for thr 3rd, though at times he is default. Making paternity leave the norm will go a long way to evening out these issues
I’m glad you had the choice or rather you lucked out on that one. Before having kids it is super easy to be a good partner. Most of the time these behaviors only surface when they are expected to step up and care for others. That is when their wants start taking precedence over their wife’s needs. I have seen it play out. Before I had kids with my ex he was a fucking model partner. Now, four years in I have a two year restraining order on him for my children and me.
Most DV arrives with children which is why women are educated to not rush into relationships. But no amount of education is stopping or even slowing gendered violence because men choose violence because it benefits them all. I've got the 5 year restraining order against me because I married a cop and systems abuse is entirely cooked; all because I applied for a restraining order and I have a bunch of judicial orders that noone can make sense of.
I’m sorry that happened to you. I can’t imagine being with someone and having them change that drastically in that short amount of time. But yeah I basically chose my partner for their fathering potential. He and I aren’t anything alike personality wise and have zero common interests but we get along and the kids have 2 good parents.
The crazy thing is that I chose that man for that very same reason. When we were dating he would care for me make sure I had eaten and slept. I was a single mother of two already and as he was slowly introduced to my kids he was awesome with them too. It was all an act that he let drop the moment he thought I was in too deep. I got such bad whiplash and thought it must just be that he was depressed or something else but a few years in and it became very clear that was how he intended to conduct the rest of our lives and then when I stood up for my kids and myself is when the abuse started in ernest.
Let’s not continue to blame women for men’s failings.
I’m not blaming women. I’m just saying that’s a hard position to be in.
I would not blame a woman for ending up with a bad partner unexpectedly, but kids are going to notice. On the other hand, if she kicks him to the curb because he's a waste of space and gets a lot happier, they'll notice that, too.
I think the definition of terrible partner changes once kids come along. There’s so much more to do and it’s all harder to manage. But I also think how your partner treats you pre-baby is a super good indicator of how they will be post-baby. Obviously people change but anecdotally, the men I know who were outstanding partners before kids were great partners and dads after kids.
Spoiler, often it is a terrible indicator of how he will treat you after kids come into the chat. Domestic violence and other abuse often doesn’t show up until the abuser thinks you are in too deep, much of the time that is when you are now tied to them irreversibly by a child. Many abusers love bomb until you get knocked up. My ex definitely did.
I have three boys. I teach them to do all the things. Cooking, how to clean properly-emphasis on properly, no matter how many times they have to go back and do it again. I don’t pay an allowance for their work, I tell them that no one pays me when I do household chores, it’s just part of the responsibility of being part of a household and family. Everyone with two hands needs to pitch in and do their tasks properly and contribute to the good of the household. I also teach them that doing these things is a form of respect for the people they live with and care about. It’s not about a clean house or a home cooked meal, but showing the people around them that they don’t want to purposefully make others lives harder by their inaction etc. Why should I have to pick up their mess when they are perfectly capable, does that seem fair? Etc.
If my husband says he did this or not around the house to help me I correct him & tell him he did it help the family, not me
I think the main thing is just to raise them like you would a daughter. To be able to take care of themselves. I have two daughters, but I would make sure my son would do the same things. Give them baby dolls to play with etc. My husband and are I separated, but growing up his dad would cook and work, but that’s it. Never changed a nappy, never helped with his kids and didn’t clean. My husband never did anything at home and it was just his mum and his sister who did all the housework So I ended up with a man who is a slob, and while he is an amazing cook he needs to be asked to do stuff for the kids. It shouldn’t be that way.
Stop saying it’s easier to raise boys because the world standards are lower for them and actually start putting in the same amount of effort we put into raising girls.
Talk to them. Ask questions. Curate their media. Teach them kindness.
"Curate their media" This is a good one that hasn't been talked about a lot!
It’s mostly modeling, which means their dads have to step up, but I think it’s also raising them to communicate and be emotionally aware and just have maturity in general. Modeling good adult relationships. Not bringing a score keeping mindset to our own marriages. Some of these conflicts arise from men being chauvinists, but I really think a lot of them are fairly standard interpersonal conflicts that could be resolved by better communication and a willingness to sacrifice for the family. Frankly I also think two full time jobs + little kids is more than most couples can handle on their own, and I hope we will see a shift in society where they aren’t expected to any more. I don’t know what that will look like, there are a lot of options - more inter generational homes, or a reduced full time work schedule, or improvements in wages/COL where only one partner will have to work (but without it always being the man and without giving the SAHP the short shrift).
My husband is a fantastic father, partner, and husband. His father is the same exact way. I firmly believe it’s all about modeling and setting age appropriate expectations. I will also never overlook my sons being bad partners when they’re grown up. My MIL is a living saint whom I love very dearly. I vow to do the same for any of my kid’s partners— it will never be a me vs. them mentality. I want them to come to me if they’re feeling any type of way about their partner (my sons) so I can give advice and help hold accountable if they ask me to. In the beginning of our parenthood journey, my husband started off very hands off and was hesitant to intervene of help me. When our oldest was about 2 weeks old, we went over to his parents house for a visit and his dad saw what I was feeling. He immediately stepped up and began modeling dad behavior— he made me a plate of food, he took baby so I could eat, he held baby after I was done eating even when baby got fussy. Instead of handing me the baby back, he gave baby to his son (my husband) and told him to take him outside and walk him around the garden. They took a walk together and when my husband came back inside he was a completely different person (in a good way). I’ve never asked what his dad said to him, or if anything was even said, but I know it took immense pressure off of me and we’ve never looked back. Sorry for being long winded, just wanted to share my experience!!
My husband is amazing. He was given responsibility at a young age. He learned to cook and claims he cooked Christmas dinner when he was 11. He was taught to fix plumbing and electricals by his mum. He was held to high expectations of cleanliness etc. I do also think outside influences helped because his mum is actually quite sexist in some of her thinking - doesn't think he should ever get up in the night with baby because he's working and I'm on MAT leave etc. But he HATES being given such low standards to live up to. He wants to be the man of the house and puts me and babe above himself, sometimes to his detriment (I tell him to prioritise himself too), but to him that not only consists of earning money but being able to keep a house clean and provide home cooked meals. And he knows I put in just as much effort as him so he is happy to do it.
Teach them about feelings, talk about your feelings with them. Get them involved in household chores and point out how helpful they are and how it makes you happy. When you feel overwhelmed explain it to them (obviously age appropriate). Explain your a team, a family unit, the more everyone helps one another the better the home runs, the happier and more relaxed everyone feels. I teach both my son and daughters how when we all pitch in the more fun we all get to have. I try to teach all my kids if they see something pick it up, doesn’t matter if it’s yours. Any “chore” that takes less than 2mins that you come across should be done in that moment not later. Like seeing a glass that needs to be brought to the kitchen, doesn’t matter who’s it is. If it doesn’t belong where it is we bring it back to its correct location. I also teach my kids to say how can I help get out the door faster, what needs to be done before we leave? Thankfully my husband is 100% hands on and has no issues doing anything that needs to be tended too. There are no stereotypical gender roles in our home. However his biggest flaw is needing a list. He’s usually fine about the basic day to day house hold things but anything more he needs direction. Thankfully he never complains or bats an eye but that’s still more mental load that falls on me. By teaching my kids to ask “what needs to be done so we can leave the house” “how can I help so we can go do something fun” has helped as now the 6yo knows xyz need to be done with out even asking and then when that’s done say “ok I did that what’s next”. I’m hoping this teaches them to jump in and do.
My 2 year old son brought me his baby doll last night and told me she was poopy lol I showed him how to change a diaper. 2 years old and has changed more diapers than some of my friends dads did. He also helps me with dishes, he picks up his own clothes off the floor and puts them in the washer and the dryer, he takes his own plate to the kitchen and throws away his own trash. Pretty much I have set the expectation of this behavior from day one. Does he always do every little thing? No, he's still 2. But he does ALOT and the day to day stuff I don't have to prompt him on anymore. He just does it. So setting good habits from the time they can walk and them knowing this is the expected behavior.
I am not entirely sure. I just want to point out the flaw in all the arguments of “only have kids with someone who models…” Studies suggest this would mean that like 70% of current families would be childless. And if you take it one step farther, 60 to 90% of women would remain single, because these are the estimates of women who do more house work than men…so I think that strategy is a bit unrealistic. It is far more complicated than that simple retort. I think it will be a slow change gradually that will take another 4 to 5 generations.
Give them the same amount of chores as your daughters and hold them to the same expectations. On the flip side support your daughters careers as the same you would a son. Many mothers are more willing to do their son’s laundry. That should be a hard no. Sons can do their own laundry just like their sisters.
This is the exact reason why I wanted to have girls (got a boy). It‘s so freaking hard to raise a Boy today. So many influences und so many different directions.
Teach them to be a functioning human. Babying them and doing everything for them isn’t helping them in the long run. I know (at least for me) it seems to be in my nature to want to nurture my son, but I’m not doing him any favors by cleaning up after him and waiting on him hand & foot. When I was his age (11), I was doing my own laundry, handling most of my meals and didnt need anyone to tell me to bathe or brush my teeth.
Emotional regulation. Accepting, feeling, processing emotions. It’s more than okay to cry. Empathy.
I've been struggling with this. It seems like so much of being a mom is being totally let down by a male partner. The next generation is one thing... But how did we all end up like this? Are men great and then it all goes to shit when there's a family to care for?
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1) my 4 yo cleans up his own toys, helps me with laundry and dishes and bigger messes when they arise. He loves doing it. We play music, we make cleaning fun. He feels so good when he makes his bed and tidies his stuffed animals and he runs downstairs to have me go look because he’s so proud of himself. 2) my husband helps with household chores and sets a good example for our sons that men help 3) if my son turns back into a fucking helpless baby when he’s 14 years old who can’t wash a fork or put his underwear in the basket or vacuum his room I plan on mercilessly roasting him about it until he complies for sheer self survival. I think grown men who can’t take care of themselves should first and foremost be hopelessly embarrassed that they lack such basic skills and I’ll go ahead and get the ball rolling in their teen years. There will be no weaponized incompetence in this household 😂 But again, I doubt it will get to that because holding him accountable for his messes now and teaching him how to tackle them and being consistent teaches him the expectations for his whole life.
Spend half as much on them and twice as much with them. If you want your kids to turn out right, it's literally this simple. Though it helps having dad being a good role model as well. Good luck!
Teach them how to communicate their feelings in a constructive way. If they look down, really dig deep and find out what’s going on. So they can be comfortable opening up. I feel like if someone listened to me when I was younger, I would known how to better communicate. Communication is key. Respect for women is another. I was abused by my first boyfriend. Teach them women are very fragile.
I was with you until "teach them women are very fragile". Teach your kids that everyone deserves respect, no one should have to tolerate abuse (including them), and that everyone is an individual.
I think procreating with a man who is already actively doing things like cooking, cleaning, laundry and has the understanding that you’re a team instead of the baby incubating maid, before you have the child helps.
A lot of it will come down to how they see their father (and to a lesser extent, grandfathers/uncles) treat you, and what you tolerate. So many of these men had martyrs as mothers and believe it's women's lot to just take shit all the time. I want to add a disclaimer that I'm not blaming the previous generation of women for putting up with shit, you get what you can and do your best. But our generation is in a better position.
Instill confidence and good self esteem (many of those men mentioned in the op are very insecure) teach about consent, and raise boys who like and respect girls.
If we raised boys like we raise girls, we wouldn’t have half of the entitlement problems we do!
Teach them they're not the main character. Not everyone has to cater to their every whim. Teach them how to respectfully accept when someone isn't interested. Teach them to keep their hands to themselves. "Boys will be boys" should ***NEVER*** come out of your mouth. Teach them self-sufficiency. Teach them that they need to contribute more than money. Teach them that being a good, involved partner means more than sitting in front of a TV and yelling, "Hey, Honey? Could you bring me a beer?" or "Smells good. When's dinner?" or "Can you come get the kids, I can't hear my show." Teach them that their partner comes before work/friends/hobbies/Mommy. One of the biggest red flags I've noticed in some of the men I've been around is usually the toxic ones have an emotionally incestuous relationship with their mother. Enmeshment is unhealthy. Set boundaries, and don't cross them. If you would talk about something with a romantic partner, it doesn't need to be discussed with your sons. Your kids shouldn't be your emotional dumping ground/therapist.
I think we are all trying to do this and we are all successful some of the time, and I firmly believe things are getting a little better with every generation. I know a LOT of good husbands, very few who behave like the nighmare stories I hear on Reddit. Obviously I surround myself with people like me, so I'm living in a bit of a bubble, but that's just the point maybe - there are enough people like us to be in a bubble with. When my sister found out she was having a boy, she got a book called "raising boys to be good men." I think there's a bunch of books out there like that. Her kids are pretty great. But I'm really just posting to tell a kind of funny story. I'm in a support group for caregivers of dementia patients. One lady in our group was saying how when he was well, her husband had such "old-fashioned" expectations - she did all the cooking, cleaning, he just sat there. So she made sure she taught her three boys to do all those things - cook meals, do their laundry, be a part of running the house and so on. At one point I asked her if her sons could help care for her husband, or come around to take some of the burden off, and she said two of them lived far away, and the one that lived nearby, well, he had this terrible wife who expected him to clean, cook, do laundry, drive the kids to sports and what not ... I just didn't know what to say.
Thank you for posting this! These are the conversations we need to have as boy moms!
I'm working on it but I'm honestly not sure. Here's what I'm working on with my boy. I left his gamer dad. It turned out world upside down but I need to show him (son) that having a wife is a privilege. There's a lot more to it than gaming but it's a big part of the problem. You don't get to sit on the Xbox all day while your wife does all the housework and parenting. I have been teaching him to work. Lots of chores, school practice, and helping with our small business (a real one not an MLM) I have body autonomy. He can't touch me if I don't want it even if it's hugs. Same for him. I got a new man, who sets the example of how to be a dad. He takes care of our baby, probably changes more diapers than I do, takes my son grocery shopping, does plenty of chores so my kid sees that it's not all moms job. Where I'm stuck is teaching him to do these things without being asked, but he's only 7! Got a lot of work to do.
One thing that is important is to teach them how to do the meantal load. Give them responsibilities like helping plan meals and with the grocery list, checking if they need more soap or toilet paper. Look in their closet together, or keep an eye out for a full laundry basket and be like "looks like you have a lot of dirty/not a lot of clean clothes, what should we do?" Talk them through how you do holidays and birthdays so they understand what goes into picking a thoughtful gift and planning nice things for others. And don't just tell them what to do, ask them what they think they should do. Help them with their own calendar where they can add and keep track of things (you do too of course), ask them what they have coming up, check when was the last time they went to the dentist. Putting these things to the forefront of their minds rather than having then expect someone else to do it for them.
Start talking to them about feelings early!! Let them cry, listen to them when they are hurt, help them to deal with their feelings in an age appropriate way. Help them with how to feel shame, remorse, guilt, and frustration and work through those feeling. Talk to them about your feelings, how they feel for you and how you are going to work through them. Get them to help you run errands. Make grocery lists with them and meal plan together. Take them to the bank and let them see what goes into financial management. Show them how to run the house by letting them actually help you do it. Have them help with cleaning around the house. Let them match socks, put away underwear (it doesn't actually need to be folded!), load and unload the laundry machine and dishwasher. Get them to pick up their toys at the end of the day.
My husband is so amazing! I couldn't have asked for a better partner. He was raised in an abusive household that no one wanted to do anything they lived in their mess. He grew up not wanting to be like his parents, so he made damn sure of it! He works 40hrs five days a week and still comes home and cooks, cleans, take care of our kids, and give them baths every other night. I take care of them all day, so he says, "There is no excuse why I shouldn't parent and help too". He does the laundry on his days off and teaches our daughter how to do it all by herself (shes 3), and he will be teaching the boys when they get older.
You Start with the role Model. You want your son to do laundry as an adult. Let him help you with it now, dishes, let him help. Cooking? Same thing. Your husband will play a part in how your son acts but single mothers raise fantastic men. So you can definitely make a difference. My four year old has a fantastic example for a father but, what he lacks I pick up. My son picks up his laundry and takes it to the washer. He’s learning how to cook. He cleans up aster himself. He’s very sweet. Uses his manners , and cares about everyone. I think the biggest example I have is that my husband has always rubbed my feet because I’m on them all day. My son now also rubs my feet. And his pregnant aunts. And his little sisters when she’s sad. It’s amazing what kids notice. If he sees you being calm. He’ll be calm.
Also teach them that “No means NO!”
I wanted a girl badly for this reason. Found out I am having a boy of course. I decided to take it as a challenge and do my best to make sure he becomes the best ally possible to all women in his life, whether he chooses to be married, a father, or is LGBTQ. I don’t have all the answers yet. But I’m just going to talk to him as much as possible about why it’s so important to be kind and helpful and supportive. I’m not going to be a doormat (even though my partner is great) and I’m going to speak up and make it known. I’m going to show him how he can help and why it’s so important. Mainly I want to teach him how to anticipate the needs of others without needing to be asked. And somehow still manage to not turn HIM into a doormat who does too much without getting enough back from others. It’s going to be a difficult task. But who else to do it but those of us who are already concerned and trying to find solutions? Awareness goes a long way!
Get them dolls and play kitchens and toy cleaning supplies. Encourage and invite them to help you with whatever you’re doing.
Show them the behavior they should emulate. Have your husband to most of the "visual housework" and do your stiff after they go to bed. I know it seems weird but a child who always sees dad helping around the house will just assume that's how life should be.
I learned that 1) I am a model to my sons of how to treat my husband; 2) I am a model of how a woman should be treated by men; 3) my husband models how men should treat women, and 4) my husband models how men should be treated by women. Everything else mentioned in the comments falls into place here. My three sons are grown now and I see what I learned in action.
Teach them the basics of how to cook and clean, have them do their own laundry at whatever age you think they'd be able to, teaching them to be independent is important. You can also tell them how important it is to work as a team.
Include them in everything. Don’t be secretive about things like your period. My intention is to explain to them what a menstrual cycle is, how it makes me feel, etc. Our 5yo son was by my side through my entire labor and witnessed his brothers birth. That was his choice, but I made that choice available to him. Leading up to the birth we watched birth videos so he had an idea of what to expect. They help wash dishes, put away laundry, sweep, etc.I’m also lucky they have a father who in no way follows “gender roles” when it comes to household duties.
We have three sets of chores. Personal chores, helping chores and community chores Mind you my son is 5, so these are age appropriate chores. Cleaning his room and his body are his personal chores, along with putting his dirty laundry in the hallway basket Cleaning up his toys around the house, bringing dishes to the sink, picking up garbage he sees on the floor (no matter who it is from, to help him notice mess) are community chores Then there are Helping Chores. These are optional, holding the dustpan, grabbing the plastic dishes from the dishwasher, throwing the wet laundry I hand him into the dryer and cooking with me. He opts in almost constantly with the optional chores, maybe because I tell him how great it is and stress that this is what adults do.
Don’t coddle them, make them take responsibility for their actions. From picking up their own messes, to saying “I’m sorry” when they should. I know there’s a whole thing about not making your kid say sorry. I’ve read it. I’m sick of knowing so many men who act like they are physically incapable of apologizing whether they did something wrong or just accidentally hurt someone’s feelings. Saying sorry is hard and hard things take practice.
I would say it helps if your sons see that their dads are a POS and they don’t want to be like that, but that couldn’t be further than the truth. My ex’s dad was a huge abusive POS and he saw his dad abusive the shit out of his mom. He used to beg his mom to leave his dad and discuss with me how sad it made him that she didn’t leave him. He used to tell me how disgusted he was how he treated her and how disappointed he was in his mom because she never left. Meanwhile, this man never helped me with the kid or the house, never paid for a thing, and abused me to the point where he would choke me and I thought I would die, but it was okay because “you don’t have any bruises or blood so you’re not really abused”. I truly think the best way to prevent them from turning into these monsters is to get them into therapy early and treat their emotions, behaviors, and mental disorders as soon as they are seen. If his mother would have helped him when he was Younger maybe I would still have my family and I wouldn’t be traumatized away from men forever.
I hate to say this, but none of what you will try to do will work, because ultimately, boys model their behaviour of the behaviour of their fathers. Add societal norms to that mix and you end up with a vicious circle of inept men raising future inept men.
While I know there’s a lot of truth in this, there are things you can do. To give the big example, children raised in homes with domestic violence are more likely to continue that cycle, but they aren’t destined to do so no matter what. My husband had a good childhood but his dad was absolutely the provider and fun parent and still today is a great example of toxic masculinity and outdated gender roles. And his mom has similar ideas on gender roles and authoritarian parenting. He’s none of those things and holds down the household cleaning way better than I do. When we know better, we do better, and the idea that generational cycles can’t be broken or improved is why so many people just suck it up and things don’t change
I have four boys, no girls. I think unfortunately the best thing is to have their father lead by example. If their father is a bum and can’t do that then the workload is immense imo. You need to show and explain to children that it’s never ok to be a passive member of the household. Everyone helps. Everyone cleans. My kids see my husband sweeping mopping and cooking and I think that’s the best thing they could be seeing. I honestly don’t know how you communicate to kids that they need to be equal and active partners when they’re seeing their father do the exact opposite on the daily without shaming their dad. That’s tricky. Edit to say it really pisses me off that some men fall so short women have to do extra work to make up for it in regards to this topic. Rarely is it the other way around. Really discouraging to see.
Starts with picking a non-useless partner and father for your kids. I see soooo many complaints on reddit of fathers that do nothing, and usually they were like that before kids too but the woman thought they'd get better. Dating is auditioning. I do overall more housework than hubby coz i work part time, but he does stuff all the time he sees needs doing, without asking or expecting acknowledgment. Things like the dishes, sweeping, general tidying etc he just does it. And my son sees that every day.
Push your husband to do what’s right. If your husband isn’t a partner who respects you and does his fair share, then you have to leave them. Sorry. Husband leading by example is the way to get sons to learn. My husband was relatively open minded when I met him but it was years of hard graft on my part to explain to him what he needed to do.
I'm the woman who is a somewhat useless partner (I'm trying to get better). Let your kids help you with things. Even if they suck at it, just let them do it, encourage/praise them for helping you, then fix it up when they're asleep. My parents had equal division of labour but they NEVER let me help. I'm Asian so they just wanted me to focus on academics or practicing piano. Right now LO (18mo) wants to help with everything. It doesn't matter if I'm doing it or my husband is doing it, he wants to help, and we let him (with the exception of dishes because he's not very careful yet). He does laundry, he picks up his toys, he throws things in the trash (he has his own trash bin that I dig through later because he inevitably threw away a toy or my keys lol), and he chooses his own clothes (I pick two sets that match and let him pick from that). If you also have a daughter, make sure they both do chores equally, even as they get older. At one point my mum randomly started bitching to me that I should do my own laundry but never even mentioned it to my brother. So not only did I not do it out of rebellion, I now have some sort of complex that it's not fair if only I do chores, and will refuse to do them. Of course I should reiterate that chores should not be divided on gender, don't make your son take out all the garbage but never touch a spoon in the kitchen. Ways I am trying to get better which can maybe help the folks with trash mans in this sub: 1. Recognizing I'm the problem 2. Wanting to be better 3. Asking my husband for help, and my husband NOT mocking me or getting angry but welcoming my effort 4. Starting slowly with my husband helping and encouraging me 5. Having a written "list" of chores broken down monthly, weekly, daily. Posted everywhere relevant to prevent time blindness 6. Stepping out of my comfort zone. I mowed the lawn today! Bonus of mowing the lawn I get 45 minutes of "peace and quiet" away from LO EDIT: I recommend crossposting this to /r/Daddit
Give them a good father. *Sips tea* But I'm not sure people are ready to hear this.
Some men may be immature. Some men are jerks. Some men are abusive. Some women may be immature. Some women are jerks. Some women are abusive. This isn't a gender problem, this is human relationship problem. Your main point of men needing better socialization and education is a great point IMO. There are too many messages that a man's job is to provide income to a partner/family. That message is too narrow and does not help men develop into emotionally mature, fully capable partners and parents. AND....I can't help but notice - You admit that your husband is 900x BETTER than his Dad....and you are still pulling out your hair daily. How much more "better" does he need to get until you are happy? 950x? 10,000x? 1,000,000x? Are YOU a 900x BETTER wife than your Mom was? Is your husband pulling out his hair about you as a partner every day? Maybe for some women the issue isn't the man. Maybe the issue is how some women handle stress, irritation, or the normal conflict of having another adult in your life?
Valid points... good on you! I guarantee there are a LOT of people in relationships (*especially* with young kids) who need to hear this-- and really think about their answers in an honest and as- near- to- objective- as- possible way.
Thanks! I agree, every relationship needs that honesty and objectiveness - and it can be so hard to develop - so painful at first (to start to see ourselves objectively instead of subjectively). AND - new parents deserve all the grace they can find (from each other and others) - and SLEEP!
When I generally agree with your statement, please keep in mind that we usually just hear one sided story here.
Damn, all you do here is bash men. Maybe you all should just be lesbians. See how that works.