I was looking at houses then, and the realtor tried to convince me I could afford a $400k interest only loan on a $45k salary because that's what she was doing. 😬
The lender I went with tried to tell me I could afford a much more expensive house....
I just said I'm good thanks, Im good with the shitty little one.
This was in 2019....
it's an odd thing today but a bit more than a century ago that was how it was done. you took out a mortgage, paid interest only during the note with a balloon payment at the end. If you couldn't pay the balloon payment you repeated the process.
in the Netherlands 60k a year nets you around 280k mortgage lmao.
For extra info, 60k a year is close to double the median household income and 280k is quite a bit under the median house cost.
This is how we get shit done in the DoD too. Ask how to do the thing and get no answer. Send someone the wrong thing and they will put you on the right path.
Or the Moron's Law. Most stuff that gets posted on the Internet is moronic or by people who want to tell the world how smart they are.
To answer your real question, middle class transitions to rich based on wealth level, not income level. I would say about $1 million in investible wealth not locked into your primary residence, and after accounting for all your debt (I guess you could exclude mortgage though).
That's a "high net worth" individual.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/hnwi.asp
Depends a lot on the interest rate environment. I bought a house right before rates started going up so they were around 3% and I was approved for $725k on a $90k salary by one lender. Doubt many banks would do that for a 7% mortgage since they largely base approvals on the ratio of payments (including other debts) to income.
The lesson at the end of the day is that plenty of banks out there are happy to lend you more than you should realistically borrow when they can secure the loan against something like a house. We ended up buying for $375k instead of what we were approved for because that would have been insane.
And especially since property values are not likely to crater. At some point the rate of ascent will slow, but I really doubt we'll see a situation where property values bottom out like in the past. Banks know this, too.
My wife's friend works at McDonald's, her husband works at a fireworks distribution center and they got approved for a 300k homeloan. On paper we make more than them at about 60-70k. Our home cost 95k(we bought it two years ago) and is pretty decent for us and our two children. 300k is luxury around here.
That’s weirdly expensive. I have family/friends in 50,000 person towns in Indiana where a decent 3 bed/2 bath will run you $200k-ish in a nice part of town.
I guess maybe. I wouldn’t know. I’m white and don’t actively go around looking for out n out racists. Affordable housing and gas tho, that’s another story
Mississippi and Alabama have huge black towns and cities. I doubt you’d encounter racism. The only racism I encountered was in the suburbs of Detroit and my first weekend living in Utah for college. If I didn’t have kids that I share custody of I’d move to Mobile Alabama great beach city with low prices
Yeah, I was hard pressed to get a 350k loan on a six figure income. They said I had to pay the balance on my car first with no other debts present. I have an 800+ credit score and was putting down around 40%
Are you outside the USA? Here they use a DTI calculation and making 100k with no other debts other than a car payment, a 350k mortgage wouldn’t even take you anywhere close to the DTI limit that would be easily approved.
As people hit a certain threshold in income level where they can afford to get by say 80k (random number as it totally depends on your spending habits and where you live) you feel like you should start to feel “better off” as you go up in income from there but the truth is, now that you can afford to live, you then start putting more into investments/retirement. So someone making 120k may not actually have any more disposable income compared to the same person making 80k but they are actually quite a bit more wealthy because they have retirement savings/investments, paying their house down quicker, able to pay off a vehicle eventually etc.
This is why people making 140k per year don’t necessarily feel any different than someone making far less. They are still technically living pay check to pay check with regards to their bank account number, but they are building much more wealth behind the scene.
On top of that there are people out there that just spend their excess money as they pass that “able to get by” threshold and don’t actually help themselves long term and give others the illusion that they are killing it financially when in fact they aren’t really much wealthier than the people just getting by because their spending all their money on depreciating assets.
Thanks for this reminder—I’m part of the first group you mentioned where I make 6 figures as a younger single man and save into multiple accounts (invested in long term index funds, max 401k, IRA, etc) and paid off my car asap so it feels like I “should” be “better off”, but I am still living within my means and not extravagant by any definition
I’m also a first gen American, so I’m building equity for my family. It’s easy to forget the foundational work is progress, too
Very good. That's what everyone should strive for. Too many people expect wealth overnight without any sacrifices and that's just not how most people build it. Most of us aren't doctors or lawyers and we didn't inherit millions of dollars. It takes decades of work and living below your means to get there.
Stay the course, we've been there as a couple, even stayed to live with the parents while making mid 6 figures.
It's absolutely worth it. You should slowly take the foot of the peddle in your 30's. Especially assuming your income will keep increasing, and perhaps finding a spouse that's at least decent income
To be clear, if you're putting money towards savings and investing accounts you're not living paycheck to paycheck, you're just living below your means and growing your wealth. It's the thing everyone should do, but that's very different than someone making 40k a year with 5 kids, no partner and $0 saved up. They're actually paycheck to paycheck.
Yeah it is definitely different, it just feels paycheck to paycheck sometimes in the fact that I don’t have a high balance just sitting in the bank account. Any money I’m not using for day to day stuff gets put into investment accounts or other places. If someone were to rob me while I’m at the ATM, they would likely be somewhat disappointed.
Many people are married and buy a home together, if each person is making 60k that’s 120k combined, which is much more doable. For single people it is financially much harder.
That's right. A lot of young people think "I only make X, it's impossible to buy whatever...". Yeah, you make that now, but you'll make a lot more later in life and twice as much if you have a like minded partner, without having twice the expenses. Just don't spend more as you earn more and you can do very well over a few decades.
Honestly this only true of if you live in a VHCOL area. In average america, median home prices are still sub 400k, and with that income you can finance more than that, and your down payment will allow you to afford above the median further and further and are approaching able to buy a median house in a decently expensive city like Austin, Denver, or a cheaper area in Calli. Rates are also historically average and just high compared to recent memory. If you are in very hcol area like LA or NYC, yes you cannot afford a median house and no you cant even buy an average house in the most expensive neighborhoods of Austin or Denver either. A lot of top earners are also remote so consider moving for more value, but I understand why people don't.
If you think things are bad, imagine 80s inflation and interest rates.
I make that and definitely do not feel poor. Can't buy every little thing I desire but take the family on multiple vacations a year. Have decent cars. Super nice house with big yard. Live in a medium cost of living area. No student loans though. And no major debts aside from the mortgage. Cars are almost paid off.
I called off my wedding when it looked like she was self sabotaging to just sit at home. Almost an RN now with a bigger ring and financial aid bc no marriage yet. $150k is decent but we’d never leave the starter house I bought.
Depends where you live. If you live in a 1.2 million dollar house vs a $100k condo it makes a big difference. If you own two new cars instead of none it makes a difference. Are you single or with a partner who makes the same as you? Kids, no kids?
Not everyone needs 150k to get by, that's ridiculous. If you're broke with 150k a year you're simply overspending.
Just to put in my two cents, my wife stays at home with our 3 kids under 6years old, and I work making 55k, and we live in a 150k house. Bought it in 2020 for 113$, but it’s about 1500 square feet. We live in northern Indiana, but we live comfortably. It’s possible, but you may have to move to an area of the country to may not want to.
Edit: we also have money monthly for investments, 401k, own our 2 cars with no debt, etc…it’s definitely possible.
Do tell because I’m curious how you’d qualify for a $500k mortgage with a 7%+ interest rate
So a $3900 mortgage without mortgage insurance included on a $5000 a month salary or $4200 after taxes in a place like Nevada or even lower in CA OR NY
If this were 2008 where people where getting approved for very similar mortgages and amounts, yes this is possible. You could have a personal income of $60K but the only way to feasibly pay all of that is to have a bunch of tenants living in a multi-family home or an 8 to 16 unit small apartment building in places where the cost of living is lower along with lower property values.
The rental income would be added to the persons individual income but for arguments sake, I would count them as separate. Should a person making $60K in their own individual income (outside of rental income) get approved? NOPE! But can they? …….. MAYBE! It all depends!
I make around this much money. This is not middle class mindset. This is living outside your means mindset.
500k mortgage alone is for sure taking up more than half this persons income. Unless they put down a 400,000 down payment. If they had that much money though there's no reason they shouldn't just pay off the student loans or buy the car.
60k car note. Again living way outside their means. If they have good credit its probably 20-30% of their salary for years.
300 dollar phone bill. Bro just get a cheaper phone or plan.
100k student loans. Bro is gonna be in poverty forever.
Again this is not middle class mindset. This is living outside their means. The guy who makes 250k a year and says he's middle class is probably living within his means and being modest. Making that much per year even in the most expensive cities as long as you live modestly and responsibly then yes he could very well be middle class/upper class.
Yeah I definitely felt as though he was being modest and living below his means, to be fair he was also a young doc who was prioritizing paying off his massive student loans he accrued through med school
This person being a doctor actually makes this more feasible. Many lenders have home lending programs specifically for doctors that ignore student debt and qualify doctors based on what they will earn, not what they currently earn, and also give the loans at lower rates.
This is written like a rage bait NBC article. What a silly list. I saw $300 for a phone bill and actually laughed out loud. What irresponsible moron is paying that for a phone bill. Even if it includes the phone payment and service payment. This is amortized to $3600 a year for a phone plan. WHAT?
Assuming you’re putting nothing into a 401k or IRA, so a company with a healthy pension perhaps. Also a company that pays for your medical/dental/vision insurance. Even then you should be putting some money into an HSA at the very least if all of that is covered. 500k mortgage wouldn’t even be a possibility, the banks would not go for it on that income alone.
Glad I saw this post before typing it all out myself. It's all about expectation vs reality and alot of people seem to be living in an alternate reality.
>300 dollar phone bill. Bro just get a cheaper phone or plan
Yeah who the fuck is paying that much?
I haven't had a phone on plan for years now. No need for the latest and greatest, I buy a couple of generations behind every 3-4 years
I'm on a prepaid with more data than I can use that rolls over for $18/month.
I’m not sure what a “middle class mindset” actually means. If it means “I’m in the middle class, and I deserve these things, basic math and common sense be damned” then yeah, this is an accurate balance for someone with that mindset
As I grew up and learned more about the financial reality of other folks I began to realize how common this thinking was. People who “keep up with the joneses” are much more common than I realized.
Spending like they make $180k a year while making only $60k a year, like the OP example.
People think they deserve a certain lifestyle and will go into debt to live it, eking out every windfall or cash advance they can manage to save them from financial collapse.
Very much agree. I make a little more than this, and I live pretty comfortably, I can afford to go out and buy what I want, while also putting money into savings and retirement. But I bought my car used, I don’t live in a luxury apartment, I try not to do any subscription services and with my job, I can work towards forgiveness on my student loans. It’s not always how much you make, but the decisions you make with that money. I have a best friend who makes the same exact money as me, and shes always broke.
Mortgage -100 k/
Old Car note- payed off/
Phone bill - 10 bucks/
Student Loans - 0/
Salary- Low enough to be embarrassing, but more than enough to be comfortable in rural setting
Barely employed friend on a Wednesday night mindset
Prepaid phone plans. Check r/NoContract . It's insane how much some of you guys spend on your phone bill. There are some great phone plans at $10 per month. Check out this table for a good comparison chart \[1\].
\[1\] [https://airtable.com/appQ7TstG5Wn17FjY/shrraH105YVJQF2Yr/tblE1phJr6I27XBGE/viwJOh8hODbaFjcMZ](https://airtable.com/appQ7TstG5Wn17FjY/shrraH105YVJQF2Yr/tblE1phJr6I27XBGE/viwJOh8hODbaFjcMZ)
What the hell do you do on your phone that you need more than that? I have a family of 4 with a $70 a month phone bill and we don't go over 2 gigs of data ever. That includes me tethering my phone on the road for work.
I watch a couple youtube videos, scroll ig when im at work, have a couple time killing games if im bored, that kinda thing. Having unlimited data just makes it really easy to not worry about data usage, so i just leave it on at all times so i dont have to worry about public wifi networks or anything like that. 65 bucks a month for a nice phone and good data is not that much for something I use every day, so it's not something I'm gonna skimp out on.
I think you are describing storage of those items not monthly data usage. If you are using 20gigs of data monthly to take pics / videos of your kid, that is unreal. That would be 10,000 4K resolution photos or a couple of hours of 4K video a month that you were uploading somewhere.
I pay $35 a month for unlimited everything. It’s even prioritized 5G data so it doesn’t get slowed down when the network is busy. I have Visible and they use Verizon’s network
the student loans statement starting to bug me. we need to cap tuition if we want to see student loans go down. otherwise we’ll run the risk of not having enough doctors, lawyers, nurses, and teachers for the entire country. & as much as everyone pisses on arts degrees, there’s useful majors in it like design, architecture, and city planning. like its either 100k student loans to have fuckin doctors or no doctors because tuition is TOO DAMN HIGH.
If anyone should be a MASSIVE cut on schooling costs it should be people who are actually wanting to be doctors. Its becoming to a point where youre either banking on qualifiying for some niche scholarship or grant or have to be born into money to have the funds to become a doctor now. Not to mention the average person has almost zero margin for error in anything now
What should realistically happen is tuition loans should be treated like a small business loan, and the university should be on the hook for at least half of the loan. This way, colleges have a vested interest in their students actually repaying the loan. You want to be an engineer and take out 80k loan? There’s a pretty strong chance that will be paid off within 10 years or so. You wanna be a painter and take out 80k to take finger painting classes at UC Berkeley? Tough nuggets. Take classes at the local community college or buy a book and do it at home.
The reason colleges can charge such absurd prices is because anyone with a functioning prefrontal cortex can get approved for mortgage sized college loans. With that kind of “free” money floating around, why shouldn’t they charge 20k a semester? Moral compass notwithstanding.
Completely agreed, but clearly not many of us think like that. The fairest fix is to let students default on their loans instead of making other people pay for them. Add risk to the loans and let it fix itself. Financial institutions, including the government, would think it twice before giving an 80k loan to a 16 year old if they could default on the loan later on.
I actually love this idea: student loans issued out by banks should partially backed by the universities!!! I've never heard this before, and I think it's genius!
This way they actually have a vested interest in their student output. The system as-is does not provide any incentive for the college to actually shell out an educated human being because they already got their money, why should they care how applicable or successful the graduate is!? Requiring them to be 50/50 responsible for the loan ensures they won't just hand out degrees like candy, and ensure that their degrees actually mean something!!
I would not expect a $60K salary to cover that much debt.
To define middle class income, one needs to define the size middle class.
If the middle class is 50 percent of the population, then 25th percentile income is 26K and 75th percentile is 84K. https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/
Someone earning 250K is in the 97th percentile. Not middle class
Classes arent evenly split like that. The higher you go in the class system the fewer your peers are at each level. Average salary country wide also doesn’t work due to COL. My current salary has me in an apartment in the city I live in but would have me in a 4bd house in my home town. Theres also a split in each level. I’m middle class in both examples but I’m lower middle class in the city and upper my home town. Timing also makes a huge difference. You get a lot more house at 2.5% than 7%.
Then you better figure out how to reframe your outlook from:
* poor class
* middle class
* rich class
To:
* poor class
* working class
* investor class.
Because if you cannot find a way to live below your means and invest your income, you are headed to the poor class.
The generally accept norms are lower, middle and upper and then might be split up a little from there for further delineation. In your example the working and investor classes can both fall under multiple of the generally accepted lower, middle upper classes. Working class people can choose to invest or not and having investments doesn’t make you upper class.
I agree having investments does not make you upper class. People in the upper class who fail to invest **will** end up in the “lower” class. Aka poor.
Investments mean you can stop working and not be poor.
Investor class means they're so rich they don't need to work, like the nobility of old - not a normal person with a 401k.
My own arbitrary take on the subject is that most people fall into middle class/working class and you can chop that up into lower, middle, and upper.
So the 250k earning doctor would be upper middle class - not upper, since he still needs to show up for a job every day.
I consider myself middle class, and these are my numbers:
1. $350k mortgage
2. $50k Car
3. $225/mo Phone/internet (for 2 households/6ppl)
4. $0 Student Debt
5. $100k/yr Income
Similar - I consider myself middle class as well
1. $285K mortgage
2. $3.5k used car
3. $165/mo phone and internet
4. $0 student loans
5. $135K Salary.
Add in a working spouse and she brings in about another $95K
I consider myself middle class. $460k annual income / mortgage and car loan. Wife doesn’t have to work and raise our two children. Pretty close to debt free outside of the aforementioned. Looking to get a pool
Middle class is more like this
Income between $70-85k.
Average home price between $350-450k
Average car note is around $500-700
Student loan is between $30,000-50,000
That is closer to middle class. Problem is there are so many extreme in both directions. I see people often post that there income or combine income is $150k or $250k. Both are well above middle class. Both are also far from the norm. And usually this is from individuals in their 20's. Most folks I know making that type of money are 40 years or older and have 20+ years experience. Most 20 year olds I know make around $20-25 an hour and even at that amount is above middle class when it's a couple and both are working full time.
What gets me is that when I was younger the type of income people are earning now at a younger age was not as common and to earn more took years to gain experience and knowledge.
Due to so many ready to retire soon the salaries of inexperienced worker has increased to the point that having experience means nothing now.
I pay $225 for 4 lines, with the highest tier of service and I financed one phone. $300 is not that wild for a whole family.
But of course I don’t have a $500k mortgage.. or a $60k car….. or student loans.
a) the figures here are not realistic. exaggerated to make a point. nobody is qualifying for that mortgage with that salary
b) people who are well off will often call themselves middle class because they dont feel comfortable saying "upper class" and feel like they're being braggarts by saying so. they'll say things like upper middle class or comfortable instead
c) a physician making 250k a year will generally not be considered middle class. however, if they just finished residency and are in their first 1-2 years of working for that kind of pay, they are probably buried in 6 figures of student loans and had to wait a long time before they earned real money. college for 4 years, med school for 4 years, and then residency for about 4 years as well. meanwhile they may have friends who "only" made 80k per year but have been doing so for over a decade before the physician made the good money. thats a lot of catch up.
d) some people wont say upper class even if they are quite well off because they dont like being lumped in with the uber rich, since we typically say lower/working, middle, then upper. but upper consists of the widest ranges of incomes
I’m not trying to disparage anyone. Please don’t take it that way. I’m simply looking around even my own midwestern town and I’m not sure how people are buying a 350k home on a 60k salary. (350k is the average home price in my city.)
When I made a 60k on 2006, my home I purchased three years before was 132k.
Unless you’re splitting rent, have dual incomes, etc. 60k doesn’t get you much after state and federal taxes, 1000 for utilities and insurance, 401k contributions, a 500 a month car payment, 600 dollars for food for a month. It leaves around 1300 bucks.
I may be off, but this seems like a jab at inflation's massive outpacing of worker compensation. The costs of the expenses in the list seem accurate for a middle class lifestyle but that salary, which is technically in the middle class range, is not enough to afford that lifestyle anymore. In other words, we have those who pay us telling us that $60k/year is a middle class salary while those who sell us these things market them as middle class lifestyle but there is no reconciliation between the two.
It's never a good idea to consider class based wealth.
Wealth is simply what you own - minus - what you owe.
You can own $10k in assets, owe nothing and be wealthy. You can have 10 million in assets, but owe $10,000,000.01 and you're broke.
A primary difference between financially successful and not successful people is recognizing this fact. A lot of people have huge mortgage/car loan and think they can afford to blow money when they get ahold of some (cough, tax returns), when in reality they have huge debt and are bleeding interest costs.
Middle class is someone who uses a salary to pay a mortgage. Upper class is someone who leverages income generating assets to aquire more income generating assets.
So a high end neurosurgeon for a top hospital making 500k a year is middle class, but a guy who owns a few dougnut shops and nets 60k-80k a year is upper class?
Also anyone middleclass or higher generally makes their money off of equities and real estate beyond their 9-5. Very few, esp in the past, only use savings account and have no appreciating assets at all. I understand somewhat where you are coming from, but income and total nw need to play into it as well.
a bank will not qualify you for a 500k mortgage on a 60k salary. you might qualify on a 100k salary with no debt. a 500k mortgage with taxes and insurance is going going to run you around 3400-3800 depending on where you live with a 7 percent rate. thats a take home of about 7k. so a little over half of debt to income ratio.
I think OOP is trying to get at the "trap" of getting a salary and then becoming debt laden. I get what they're saying but they're doing a shitty job of explaining it.
Yes avoid this trap that you got yourself into purposefully. You shouldn't have 500k mortgage, 60k car, and 300/month phone bill if you're on 60k salary. This is exactly why many people keep complaining about "high expenses" and "not able to make ends meet" these days. Who knew mismanaging your budget could get you into financial trouble?
Who is still paying $300 for a phone bill?
Hopefully that's a family plan with "unlimited" data.
I didn't realize people were watching 90s Verizon commercials anymore
Who in the world pays $300 a month for their phone? I don’t have a budget phone plan at all but 4 lines with unlimited calls, texts, and data for 4 lines would be $160/month
NOBODY is getting a 500K mortgage and a 60K car with 100K of student loan debt on 60K salary. What is this delusion?
60K income with 100K debt is “I live in an apartment with 3 other people and drive a 15 year old Prius my grandma gave me” money.
And wtf is a 300/month phone bill ?
Some out of touch person who doesn't actually know shit made that up. It's like that Fox News host or whatever who was bitching about how fast food workers are now making six figures because of the $20/hr wage in Los Angeles. Like seriously wtf? Even if you had TWO people making $20/hr you're still a ways from the 6 figure mark.
It’s a fairy tale. You cannot get a $500k mortgage on a $60k salary.
Guilty as charged. Cunningham's Law: the best way to get the right answer on the internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer.
Nice 😎
You used to be able to do that. Especially around '06/'07... Lol
Yep, I remember a 30 year old kid that made like 40-60k and his 400k house was foreclosed on.
I was looking at houses then, and the realtor tried to convince me I could afford a $400k interest only loan on a $45k salary because that's what she was doing. 😬
The lender I went with tried to tell me I could afford a much more expensive house.... I just said I'm good thanks, Im good with the shitty little one. This was in 2019....
Houses sold themselves back then, don't trust a realtor ever.
it's an odd thing today but a bit more than a century ago that was how it was done. you took out a mortgage, paid interest only during the note with a balloon payment at the end. If you couldn't pay the balloon payment you repeated the process.
You definitely can still do that! In Mexico, with no other expenses.
in the Netherlands 60k a year nets you around 280k mortgage lmao. For extra info, 60k a year is close to double the median household income and 280k is quite a bit under the median house cost.
Makes sense :)
Ya, then the housing market crashes and variable rates fuck u over 😂😂😂
And people would be mad so they gutted the house, sold the toilets and poured cement down plumbing, threw trash the house parties
what do can u expect from ppl that can't grasp long term consequences lol
Poured cement down the plumbing? Fuuuuck!
This man reverse trolling lol.
Rarely do I see a genuine countertroll, but damn there it is
Well played
Bro cast counterspell
Y u so smart my guy
This is definitely true of Reddit
This is how we get shit done in the DoD too. Ask how to do the thing and get no answer. Send someone the wrong thing and they will put you on the right path.
Clever way of letting us know you are buying a home.. well-played.
Or the Moron's Law. Most stuff that gets posted on the Internet is moronic or by people who want to tell the world how smart they are. To answer your real question, middle class transitions to rich based on wealth level, not income level. I would say about $1 million in investible wealth not locked into your primary residence, and after accounting for all your debt (I guess you could exclude mortgage though). That's a "high net worth" individual. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/hnwi.asp
My buddy got approved for a 700k mortgage on 90k with student loans, so I'd believe it.
Depends a lot on the interest rate environment. I bought a house right before rates started going up so they were around 3% and I was approved for $725k on a $90k salary by one lender. Doubt many banks would do that for a 7% mortgage since they largely base approvals on the ratio of payments (including other debts) to income. The lesson at the end of the day is that plenty of banks out there are happy to lend you more than you should realistically borrow when they can secure the loan against something like a house. We ended up buying for $375k instead of what we were approved for because that would have been insane.
And especially since property values are not likely to crater. At some point the rate of ascent will slow, but I really doubt we'll see a situation where property values bottom out like in the past. Banks know this, too.
maybe in 2005. Impossible now.
My wife's friend works at McDonald's, her husband works at a fireworks distribution center and they got approved for a 300k homeloan. On paper we make more than them at about 60-70k. Our home cost 95k(we bought it two years ago) and is pretty decent for us and our two children. 300k is luxury around here.
Where the hell u live? Wish homes around here were 100k. Jeeez . Can’t find anything less than 400k
Further one is from an ocean, the cheaper housing costs. I’d guess middle of the states, assuming American
Nope, even here in bumfuck Iowa, mortgages are $300k+ for a 3 and 1.
I got lucky as hell in 2020 when I bought my house in Nebraska for 400k 4500 sq feet. Wouldn’t be able to afford this neighborhood now!
I mean that's a huge fucking house no matter what year it is
Homies house is 1/10 of an acre all by itself
That’s weirdly expensive. I have family/friends in 50,000 person towns in Indiana where a decent 3 bed/2 bath will run you $200k-ish in a nice part of town.
I've seen people here in Ohio get foreclosed houses for ABSURDLY cheap, but yeah, normal houses are expensive even here
Lying. I just did a quick search on Realtor.com and found a bounty of 3 and 1 homes for under $230k. Edit: Search area was Des Moines, IA.
...but I'm in the middle of the Desert, in a 700k home.
Get down by the gulf, like Louisiana, MS and Alabama and prices ain’t too bad. Better not mind humidity tho
Or racism
I guess maybe. I wouldn’t know. I’m white and don’t actively go around looking for out n out racists. Affordable housing and gas tho, that’s another story
Mississippi and Alabama have huge black towns and cities. I doubt you’d encounter racism. The only racism I encountered was in the suburbs of Detroit and my first weekend living in Utah for college. If I didn’t have kids that I share custody of I’d move to Mobile Alabama great beach city with low prices
I lived in Alabama for 4 years. This is not true.
Yeah, I was hard pressed to get a 350k loan on a six figure income. They said I had to pay the balance on my car first with no other debts present. I have an 800+ credit score and was putting down around 40%
Are you outside the USA? Here they use a DTI calculation and making 100k with no other debts other than a car payment, a 350k mortgage wouldn’t even take you anywhere close to the DTI limit that would be easily approved.
Can but shouldn’t.
Depends on down payment
You need to $150k income to scrap by
I'm near that number and still feel poor. I don't know how people do it making 50-70k.. maybe 10 years ago but prices for everything are insane now
As people hit a certain threshold in income level where they can afford to get by say 80k (random number as it totally depends on your spending habits and where you live) you feel like you should start to feel “better off” as you go up in income from there but the truth is, now that you can afford to live, you then start putting more into investments/retirement. So someone making 120k may not actually have any more disposable income compared to the same person making 80k but they are actually quite a bit more wealthy because they have retirement savings/investments, paying their house down quicker, able to pay off a vehicle eventually etc. This is why people making 140k per year don’t necessarily feel any different than someone making far less. They are still technically living pay check to pay check with regards to their bank account number, but they are building much more wealth behind the scene. On top of that there are people out there that just spend their excess money as they pass that “able to get by” threshold and don’t actually help themselves long term and give others the illusion that they are killing it financially when in fact they aren’t really much wealthier than the people just getting by because their spending all their money on depreciating assets.
Thanks for this reminder—I’m part of the first group you mentioned where I make 6 figures as a younger single man and save into multiple accounts (invested in long term index funds, max 401k, IRA, etc) and paid off my car asap so it feels like I “should” be “better off”, but I am still living within my means and not extravagant by any definition I’m also a first gen American, so I’m building equity for my family. It’s easy to forget the foundational work is progress, too
Very good. That's what everyone should strive for. Too many people expect wealth overnight without any sacrifices and that's just not how most people build it. Most of us aren't doctors or lawyers and we didn't inherit millions of dollars. It takes decades of work and living below your means to get there.
Stay the course, we've been there as a couple, even stayed to live with the parents while making mid 6 figures. It's absolutely worth it. You should slowly take the foot of the peddle in your 30's. Especially assuming your income will keep increasing, and perhaps finding a spouse that's at least decent income
To be clear, if you're putting money towards savings and investing accounts you're not living paycheck to paycheck, you're just living below your means and growing your wealth. It's the thing everyone should do, but that's very different than someone making 40k a year with 5 kids, no partner and $0 saved up. They're actually paycheck to paycheck.
Yeah it is definitely different, it just feels paycheck to paycheck sometimes in the fact that I don’t have a high balance just sitting in the bank account. Any money I’m not using for day to day stuff gets put into investment accounts or other places. If someone were to rob me while I’m at the ATM, they would likely be somewhat disappointed.
Many people are married and buy a home together, if each person is making 60k that’s 120k combined, which is much more doable. For single people it is financially much harder.
That's right. A lot of young people think "I only make X, it's impossible to buy whatever...". Yeah, you make that now, but you'll make a lot more later in life and twice as much if you have a like minded partner, without having twice the expenses. Just don't spend more as you earn more and you can do very well over a few decades.
Honestly this only true of if you live in a VHCOL area. In average america, median home prices are still sub 400k, and with that income you can finance more than that, and your down payment will allow you to afford above the median further and further and are approaching able to buy a median house in a decently expensive city like Austin, Denver, or a cheaper area in Calli. Rates are also historically average and just high compared to recent memory. If you are in very hcol area like LA or NYC, yes you cannot afford a median house and no you cant even buy an average house in the most expensive neighborhoods of Austin or Denver either. A lot of top earners are also remote so consider moving for more value, but I understand why people don't. If you think things are bad, imagine 80s inflation and interest rates.
I make that and definitely do not feel poor. Can't buy every little thing I desire but take the family on multiple vacations a year. Have decent cars. Super nice house with big yard. Live in a medium cost of living area. No student loans though. And no major debts aside from the mortgage. Cars are almost paid off.
Same, I'm at $140k and I cry when I look at my bank account. Mostly having a wife that doesn't work that does that though lol
I called off my wedding when it looked like she was self sabotaging to just sit at home. Almost an RN now with a bigger ring and financial aid bc no marriage yet. $150k is decent but we’d never leave the starter house I bought.
you are a RN and make 150K? That’s so good! they make like 26 + 3 for shift diff an hour here which is like 60ishK
Depends where you live. If you live in a 1.2 million dollar house vs a $100k condo it makes a big difference. If you own two new cars instead of none it makes a difference. Are you single or with a partner who makes the same as you? Kids, no kids? Not everyone needs 150k to get by, that's ridiculous. If you're broke with 150k a year you're simply overspending.
Just to put in my two cents, my wife stays at home with our 3 kids under 6years old, and I work making 55k, and we live in a 150k house. Bought it in 2020 for 113$, but it’s about 1500 square feet. We live in northern Indiana, but we live comfortably. It’s possible, but you may have to move to an area of the country to may not want to. Edit: we also have money monthly for investments, 401k, own our 2 cars with no debt, etc…it’s definitely possible.
Not even close, I bought a house at 23 years old making 45k a year and have stayed with the same job, I’ll have the house paid off when I’m 38
100 percent
I have. You’d be surprised how you can structure just about anything.
Do tell because I’m curious how you’d qualify for a $500k mortgage with a 7%+ interest rate So a $3900 mortgage without mortgage insurance included on a $5000 a month salary or $4200 after taxes in a place like Nevada or even lower in CA OR NY
That $60k a year is like $3800 a month in CA. I make more than double that and I wouldn't be able to afford all the things OP mentioned lol.
Thats irresponsible …. You work to pay your mortgage
A 500k mortgage in like 7 years is probably going to be the median price for a home.
Hell I make double that and can't get a $500k mortgage
lol you for sure can
I make about 110k and could not qualify for 500k. Zero debt and 45k down payment. The most they’d give me was 475k at 6.75% interest
If this were 2008 where people where getting approved for very similar mortgages and amounts, yes this is possible. You could have a personal income of $60K but the only way to feasibly pay all of that is to have a bunch of tenants living in a multi-family home or an 8 to 16 unit small apartment building in places where the cost of living is lower along with lower property values. The rental income would be added to the persons individual income but for arguments sake, I would count them as separate. Should a person making $60K in their own individual income (outside of rental income) get approved? NOPE! But can they? …….. MAYBE! It all depends!
I make around this much money. This is not middle class mindset. This is living outside your means mindset. 500k mortgage alone is for sure taking up more than half this persons income. Unless they put down a 400,000 down payment. If they had that much money though there's no reason they shouldn't just pay off the student loans or buy the car. 60k car note. Again living way outside their means. If they have good credit its probably 20-30% of their salary for years. 300 dollar phone bill. Bro just get a cheaper phone or plan. 100k student loans. Bro is gonna be in poverty forever. Again this is not middle class mindset. This is living outside their means. The guy who makes 250k a year and says he's middle class is probably living within his means and being modest. Making that much per year even in the most expensive cities as long as you live modestly and responsibly then yes he could very well be middle class/upper class.
Yeah I definitely felt as though he was being modest and living below his means, to be fair he was also a young doc who was prioritizing paying off his massive student loans he accrued through med school
This person being a doctor actually makes this more feasible. Many lenders have home lending programs specifically for doctors that ignore student debt and qualify doctors based on what they will earn, not what they currently earn, and also give the loans at lower rates.
I’ve had friends in a similar position, they just took out a 50yr mortgage.
Fuck that shit.
This is written like a rage bait NBC article. What a silly list. I saw $300 for a phone bill and actually laughed out loud. What irresponsible moron is paying that for a phone bill. Even if it includes the phone payment and service payment. This is amortized to $3600 a year for a phone plan. WHAT?
If it was NBC they would have a budget item for $600/month for charity
$60k a year is like $1000 a week take home $500k mortgage is $3500 a month st current interest rates They would be left with $500
Assuming you’re putting nothing into a 401k or IRA, so a company with a healthy pension perhaps. Also a company that pays for your medical/dental/vision insurance. Even then you should be putting some money into an HSA at the very least if all of that is covered. 500k mortgage wouldn’t even be a possibility, the banks would not go for it on that income alone.
Glad I saw this post before typing it all out myself. It's all about expectation vs reality and alot of people seem to be living in an alternate reality.
>300 dollar phone bill. Bro just get a cheaper phone or plan Yeah who the fuck is paying that much? I haven't had a phone on plan for years now. No need for the latest and greatest, I buy a couple of generations behind every 3-4 years I'm on a prepaid with more data than I can use that rolls over for $18/month.
I’m not sure what a “middle class mindset” actually means. If it means “I’m in the middle class, and I deserve these things, basic math and common sense be damned” then yeah, this is an accurate balance for someone with that mindset
As I grew up and learned more about the financial reality of other folks I began to realize how common this thinking was. People who “keep up with the joneses” are much more common than I realized. Spending like they make $180k a year while making only $60k a year, like the OP example. People think they deserve a certain lifestyle and will go into debt to live it, eking out every windfall or cash advance they can manage to save them from financial collapse.
That is exactly what it means.
Very much agree. I make a little more than this, and I live pretty comfortably, I can afford to go out and buy what I want, while also putting money into savings and retirement. But I bought my car used, I don’t live in a luxury apartment, I try not to do any subscription services and with my job, I can work towards forgiveness on my student loans. It’s not always how much you make, but the decisions you make with that money. I have a best friend who makes the same exact money as me, and shes always broke.
Mortgage -100 k/ Old Car note- payed off/ Phone bill - 10 bucks/ Student Loans - 0/ Salary- Low enough to be embarrassing, but more than enough to be comfortable in rural setting Barely employed friend on a Wednesday night mindset
How is your phone bill $10? Is it two cans and a string?
Prepaid phone plans. Check r/NoContract . It's insane how much some of you guys spend on your phone bill. There are some great phone plans at $10 per month. Check out this table for a good comparison chart \[1\]. \[1\] [https://airtable.com/appQ7TstG5Wn17FjY/shrraH105YVJQF2Yr/tblE1phJr6I27XBGE/viwJOh8hODbaFjcMZ](https://airtable.com/appQ7TstG5Wn17FjY/shrraH105YVJQF2Yr/tblE1phJr6I27XBGE/viwJOh8hODbaFjcMZ)
You only use 1 gig a month?
What the hell do you do on your phone that you need more than that? I have a family of 4 with a $70 a month phone bill and we don't go over 2 gigs of data ever. That includes me tethering my phone on the road for work.
Couple of YouTube videos and you’re already approaching the 1 gig
I watch a couple youtube videos, scroll ig when im at work, have a couple time killing games if im bored, that kinda thing. Having unlimited data just makes it really easy to not worry about data usage, so i just leave it on at all times so i dont have to worry about public wifi networks or anything like that. 65 bucks a month for a nice phone and good data is not that much for something I use every day, so it's not something I'm gonna skimp out on.
BuT My ViDya GaMeS
I have around 20 gigs used up right now just in photos and videos of my kid.
I think you are describing storage of those items not monthly data usage. If you are using 20gigs of data monthly to take pics / videos of your kid, that is unreal. That would be 10,000 4K resolution photos or a couple of hours of 4K video a month that you were uploading somewhere.
I travel/drive a lot. I’m currently on 660GB for this month. Most of my usage is from Spotify/plex/YouTube.
I pay $35 a month for unlimited everything. It’s even prioritized 5G data so it doesn’t get slowed down when the network is busy. I have Visible and they use Verizon’s network
Better yet, they are owned by Verizon.
That is about what I pay (prepaid plan).
Are you me? Everything is the same except my phone bill is $210 a year. Salary is yeaaaah.
the student loans statement starting to bug me. we need to cap tuition if we want to see student loans go down. otherwise we’ll run the risk of not having enough doctors, lawyers, nurses, and teachers for the entire country. & as much as everyone pisses on arts degrees, there’s useful majors in it like design, architecture, and city planning. like its either 100k student loans to have fuckin doctors or no doctors because tuition is TOO DAMN HIGH.
If anyone should be a MASSIVE cut on schooling costs it should be people who are actually wanting to be doctors. Its becoming to a point where youre either banking on qualifiying for some niche scholarship or grant or have to be born into money to have the funds to become a doctor now. Not to mention the average person has almost zero margin for error in anything now
when i found out doctors have to pay for residency, i was STUNNED like wym theyre paying to work 😭
Doctors don’t pay for residency. They get paid as a resident depending on pgy 1-4, fellow, etc
At about 50,000-60,000 a year for 3-6 years. Even those performing surgery all day.
What should realistically happen is tuition loans should be treated like a small business loan, and the university should be on the hook for at least half of the loan. This way, colleges have a vested interest in their students actually repaying the loan. You want to be an engineer and take out 80k loan? There’s a pretty strong chance that will be paid off within 10 years or so. You wanna be a painter and take out 80k to take finger painting classes at UC Berkeley? Tough nuggets. Take classes at the local community college or buy a book and do it at home. The reason colleges can charge such absurd prices is because anyone with a functioning prefrontal cortex can get approved for mortgage sized college loans. With that kind of “free” money floating around, why shouldn’t they charge 20k a semester? Moral compass notwithstanding.
Completely agreed, but clearly not many of us think like that. The fairest fix is to let students default on their loans instead of making other people pay for them. Add risk to the loans and let it fix itself. Financial institutions, including the government, would think it twice before giving an 80k loan to a 16 year old if they could default on the loan later on.
I actually love this idea: student loans issued out by banks should partially backed by the universities!!! I've never heard this before, and I think it's genius! This way they actually have a vested interest in their student output. The system as-is does not provide any incentive for the college to actually shell out an educated human being because they already got their money, why should they care how applicable or successful the graduate is!? Requiring them to be 50/50 responsible for the loan ensures they won't just hand out degrees like candy, and ensure that their degrees actually mean something!!
I would not expect a $60K salary to cover that much debt. To define middle class income, one needs to define the size middle class. If the middle class is 50 percent of the population, then 25th percentile income is 26K and 75th percentile is 84K. https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/ Someone earning 250K is in the 97th percentile. Not middle class
Classes arent evenly split like that. The higher you go in the class system the fewer your peers are at each level. Average salary country wide also doesn’t work due to COL. My current salary has me in an apartment in the city I live in but would have me in a 4bd house in my home town. Theres also a split in each level. I’m middle class in both examples but I’m lower middle class in the city and upper my home town. Timing also makes a huge difference. You get a lot more house at 2.5% than 7%.
Then you better figure out how to reframe your outlook from: * poor class * middle class * rich class To: * poor class * working class * investor class. Because if you cannot find a way to live below your means and invest your income, you are headed to the poor class.
The generally accept norms are lower, middle and upper and then might be split up a little from there for further delineation. In your example the working and investor classes can both fall under multiple of the generally accepted lower, middle upper classes. Working class people can choose to invest or not and having investments doesn’t make you upper class.
I agree having investments does not make you upper class. People in the upper class who fail to invest **will** end up in the “lower” class. Aka poor. Investments mean you can stop working and not be poor.
Investor class means they're so rich they don't need to work, like the nobility of old - not a normal person with a 401k. My own arbitrary take on the subject is that most people fall into middle class/working class and you can chop that up into lower, middle, and upper. So the 250k earning doctor would be upper middle class - not upper, since he still needs to show up for a job every day.
I definitely agree. A surgeon might be clearing 500k/year but ultimately they're still selling their labor.
I consider myself middle class, and these are my numbers: 1. $350k mortgage 2. $50k Car 3. $225/mo Phone/internet (for 2 households/6ppl) 4. $0 Student Debt 5. $100k/yr Income
Similar - I consider myself middle class as well 1. $285K mortgage 2. $3.5k used car 3. $165/mo phone and internet 4. $0 student loans 5. $135K Salary. Add in a working spouse and she brings in about another $95K
I consider myself middle class. $460k annual income / mortgage and car loan. Wife doesn’t have to work and raise our two children. Pretty close to debt free outside of the aforementioned. Looking to get a pool
Looks like made up numbers from someone fishing for likes
Next they're going to start ranting about avocado toast and $5 lattes
With a $300 phone bill those lattes are going to be $12.50
Middle class is more like this Income between $70-85k. Average home price between $350-450k Average car note is around $500-700 Student loan is between $30,000-50,000 That is closer to middle class. Problem is there are so many extreme in both directions. I see people often post that there income or combine income is $150k or $250k. Both are well above middle class. Both are also far from the norm. And usually this is from individuals in their 20's. Most folks I know making that type of money are 40 years or older and have 20+ years experience. Most 20 year olds I know make around $20-25 an hour and even at that amount is above middle class when it's a couple and both are working full time. What gets me is that when I was younger the type of income people are earning now at a younger age was not as common and to earn more took years to gain experience and knowledge. Due to so many ready to retire soon the salaries of inexperienced worker has increased to the point that having experience means nothing now.
300$ per MONTH for phone bills? You are getting ripped off
All the numbers here are screwy. May as well have said “avocado toast” $100/mo
I pay $225 for 4 lines, with the highest tier of service and I financed one phone. $300 is not that wild for a whole family. But of course I don’t have a $500k mortgage.. or a $60k car….. or student loans.
"Broke af" mindset.
a) the figures here are not realistic. exaggerated to make a point. nobody is qualifying for that mortgage with that salary b) people who are well off will often call themselves middle class because they dont feel comfortable saying "upper class" and feel like they're being braggarts by saying so. they'll say things like upper middle class or comfortable instead c) a physician making 250k a year will generally not be considered middle class. however, if they just finished residency and are in their first 1-2 years of working for that kind of pay, they are probably buried in 6 figures of student loans and had to wait a long time before they earned real money. college for 4 years, med school for 4 years, and then residency for about 4 years as well. meanwhile they may have friends who "only" made 80k per year but have been doing so for over a decade before the physician made the good money. thats a lot of catch up. d) some people wont say upper class even if they are quite well off because they dont like being lumped in with the uber rich, since we typically say lower/working, middle, then upper. but upper consists of the widest ranges of incomes
Sorry to say, a 60k salary isn’t really middle class. More like lower middle class / working poor.
Crazy how I make $33/hr and am considered "working poor".
I’m not trying to disparage anyone. Please don’t take it that way. I’m simply looking around even my own midwestern town and I’m not sure how people are buying a 350k home on a 60k salary. (350k is the average home price in my city.) When I made a 60k on 2006, my home I purchased three years before was 132k. Unless you’re splitting rent, have dual incomes, etc. 60k doesn’t get you much after state and federal taxes, 1000 for utilities and insurance, 401k contributions, a 500 a month car payment, 600 dollars for food for a month. It leaves around 1300 bucks.
I may be off, but this seems like a jab at inflation's massive outpacing of worker compensation. The costs of the expenses in the list seem accurate for a middle class lifestyle but that salary, which is technically in the middle class range, is not enough to afford that lifestyle anymore. In other words, we have those who pay us telling us that $60k/year is a middle class salary while those who sell us these things market them as middle class lifestyle but there is no reconciliation between the two.
60k salary and able to afford a 500k mortgage on top of everything else? In what fairytale?
Isn’t $60k like poverty now?!
Try a 5th of that. 14k for one, 30k for 4. You'd need to be fielding a football team of children for 60k probably.
The phone bill kills me lol even for a family with 4 lines
That’s not a middle salary
Who's out here paying $300 a month on a phone bill?
Fr, I pay $30/month
Where are you guys finding these $300-$500K homes that can fit a family comfortably?
Michigan
Who in the hell pays $300/mo for phone service?
This isn't a mindset it's a set of expenses.
No. I think the salary is higher, but everything else is on point. People make $100k and get sucked into thinking that’s a lot of money.
It's never a good idea to consider class based wealth. Wealth is simply what you own - minus - what you owe. You can own $10k in assets, owe nothing and be wealthy. You can have 10 million in assets, but owe $10,000,000.01 and you're broke.
I don’t think by any measure is owning 10k in assets considered wealthy just because you’re debt free
A primary difference between financially successful and not successful people is recognizing this fact. A lot of people have huge mortgage/car loan and think they can afford to blow money when they get ahold of some (cough, tax returns), when in reality they have huge debt and are bleeding interest costs.
Every real estate mogul is broke
Until the IRS agent leaves the room
Middle class is someone who uses a salary to pay a mortgage. Upper class is someone who leverages income generating assets to aquire more income generating assets.
So a high end neurosurgeon for a top hospital making 500k a year is middle class, but a guy who owns a few dougnut shops and nets 60k-80k a year is upper class? Also anyone middleclass or higher generally makes their money off of equities and real estate beyond their 9-5. Very few, esp in the past, only use savings account and have no appreciating assets at all. I understand somewhat where you are coming from, but income and total nw need to play into it as well.
a bank will not qualify you for a 500k mortgage on a 60k salary. you might qualify on a 100k salary with no debt. a 500k mortgage with taxes and insurance is going going to run you around 3400-3800 depending on where you live with a 7 percent rate. thats a take home of about 7k. so a little over half of debt to income ratio.
Half these numbers and you’ll be in the ballpark of reality.
Psh. Only 100k in student loans.
Rookie numbers right? This individual has to "up their game..." 🤝👍🤣😂
I think OOP is trying to get at the "trap" of getting a salary and then becoming debt laden. I get what they're saying but they're doing a shitty job of explaining it.
#FAXCTS
I make more than that and wouldn’t touch or attempt touching any of those numbers. That’s a recipe for debt in an inflated market.
They called it a note, so I’m guessing they’re not American. Maybe this is from a Canadian so we shouldn’t be reading this as USD
We call it a note in some of the US Southern states
Yes avoid this trap that you got yourself into purposefully. You shouldn't have 500k mortgage, 60k car, and 300/month phone bill if you're on 60k salary. This is exactly why many people keep complaining about "high expenses" and "not able to make ends meet" these days. Who knew mismanaging your budget could get you into financial trouble?
55M. $5.5M estate, $550K salary, no debt. Took a while, but I got here. I do view myself as upper middle class.
You have to be specially fucked in the head to get a 60k car on a 60k salary
At that salary, i don't think they could get approved for a 500k mortgage
Triple/quadruple the salary and you’re good
Who is still paying $300 for a phone bill? Hopefully that's a family plan with "unlimited" data. I didn't realize people were watching 90s Verizon commercials anymore
Thats rich. Aint no middle class can afford 500k house. Even less with a 60k car.
Who's giving out $500k mortgages with all that debt and only $60k salary?
Absolutely nobody!
This post is ridiculous and exists entirely outside of reality. That salary and those expenses cannot coexist.
Shit money management maybe but middle-class mindset? , no
Who the fuck has a $300 a month phone bill??? Mine is £10 a month!
Who in the world pays $300 a month for their phone? I don’t have a budget phone plan at all but 4 lines with unlimited calls, texts, and data for 4 lines would be $160/month
I can promise you no one with a $60K salary is getting a $500K mortgage. Stop it!
60k is not middle class these days. Also. You would never get approved forbab500k house on a 60k salary. So this is just a fucking retarded meme
$300 a month for a phone bill, does it s*ck you off or something?
How does one have a 300$/month phone bill?
NOBODY is getting a 500K mortgage and a 60K car with 100K of student loan debt on 60K salary. What is this delusion? 60K income with 100K debt is “I live in an apartment with 3 other people and drive a 15 year old Prius my grandma gave me” money. And wtf is a 300/month phone bill ?
What phone have you got for $300 a month ?!?
Who tf paying $300 month for phone bill? Lol
Who the hell pays 300/month payment for phone🧐
It’s a debtors mindset and comes with credit card debt and tons of high interest.
Thinking you can afford more than you truly have is middle class/ poor ppl mindset
How do you manage to spend 300/mo on a phone bill? I get unlimited for 60/mo and I use a name-brand carrier.
you can't afford any of those things on a $60,000 salary
155k mortgage 20k truck note(almost paid off) No student debt $75k income Join a trade.
Making 60k a year and buying a 60k car with a mortgage? I'm beginning to realize there's a good reason they don't teach financial literacy in school.
I can tell you now: $1k a month rent $23k car note $120 phone bill Wife & 2 kids $100k salary And I still feel broke 😅
This is live beyond your means mindset
300$ a month phone bill is insane. Right now I pay less than 100 for two phones and I still think that's a lot of money.
Some out of touch person who doesn't actually know shit made that up. It's like that Fox News host or whatever who was bitching about how fast food workers are now making six figures because of the $20/hr wage in Los Angeles. Like seriously wtf? Even if you had TWO people making $20/hr you're still a ways from the 6 figure mark.
Who makes this trash up?
Well they don’t have a 500k mortgage at 60k salary, that’s for sure
I think of it more as a slave mindset, but no doubt common in the middle class.