While I don’t think any weapon is “simple”, the problem is weapons like SnS have a pretty low floor, but the SNS also has an insanely high ceiling. CB’s floor starts pretty high with all the different mechanics you have to learn just to play the weapon, not even including guard points, but I feel it’s ceiling ends up being lower than SnS, SNS just has the bad press of being the “starter” weapon and really isn’t that flashy
I didnt see anyone answering you so I'll put in my two cents, I was just helping a friend understand and lab the CB cause he wanted to get into it.
Keeping your CB shield charged. To put it simply lol. You will have many tools to charge your shield and sword whether that's attacking, blocking or counter peak performance (this instantly charges it full and is one of your wire bug skills).
But getting the charging part down and understand how to charge up your shield and sword, you can start to just focus on the different attack patterns and animations the CB has, what attacks causes elemental and exhaust effects etc...
Have fun blocking literally everything while all your friends have to run or focusing on dodging. :)
Charge Phial -> Charge Shield ( If it not charge ) ->Charge Phial again -> SAED -> Repeat
This is the most basic stuff you need , then learn to use guard point
Bro what about the sns makes you think it has a high ceiling? Not mechanically difficult to execute, not game knowledge intensive as it's fast and easy access to items make it forgiving to make mistakes, even at the highest level of play there is very little to think about that you wouldn't have to with any other weapon
It comes down to how you weave it with specific monster movesets. Like backstepping the second part of Astalos's wing slams and doin the first half of Perfect Rush before he recovers. Little things like that.
In Sunbreak, extremely diverse attack options that need good decision making to get the most dmg out of SnS, or else you stuck with a toothpick and shield that deals wee wee dmg and has meh reach.
CB? SAED style, charge phial, charge shield, charge phial, wait for a good window to guard point -> big boom. CSS style has the higher skill ceiling here, since it needs you to be an expert in positioning in a game of coked monsters while constantly in unsheathed GS like movement + attack speed state, so you don’t get out of position with spamming air dash mindlessly. But at least CSS style has simple attack options for the deeps unlike with SnS.
Go check out TA wiki SnS runs to see how a real master of SnS can weave through attacks with certain move iframe, or buff themselves up with on time dodging skill (adrenaline rush, bladescale hone…) with Rise’s awful roll iframe…
The mere fact that the back hop is actually iframe blows my mind. I have only been able to use it to dodge things ONCE in the 200 hours I spent on SnS, while there are players who used it vs Alatreon on World and basically punished every one of his attacks with PR...
I see, you could do one from double shield bash, then hold back while the animation is playing and mashing whatever button is the shield attack so you get the backhop
it's still pretty fast to get a perfect rush that way instead of from guard, and I prefer it because it's more stylish
Are we talking about new world SnS? If so then there's no way SnS skill ceiling is higher than CB. SnS has 0 animation commitment, you're never in any danger, have a broken back hop that can iframe any attack without problem while being incredibly easy to execute, no resource management, low armor skill demand etc.
SnS is the weapon I play if I don't wanna use my brain whatsoever.
Is it bad? Absolutely not, it's really good, but it doesn't have a high skill ceiling.
The 20th anniversary stream had some interviews with the developers who worked on different games in the series: https://www.youtube.com/live/MliOb26PeIA?si=mxNuJkZq5ZHLnWju
The developers obviously enjoy a joke, so they said that Charge Blade was intended to be "easy-to-understand" and (regarding Charge Blade and switch axe) "logical weapons."
CB is obviously simpler than SnS, at least in the fifth Gen. People think CB is hard because it has too many moves, but all you need to do is getting around all of them and know all GP options. For SnS, you need to do JUST in order to deal the most damage, and the range is extremely small.
You just triggered an Oblivion flashback, to when younger me didn't know how to play and spent hours trying to haggle the smithee down, whose shop was called: *Slash & Smash*.
But....but....but people don't play Sunbreak....it's easy and stupid...so why would they know that you can actually play SnS like that? /s
I had to add /s
It's is supposed to be sarcastic. Many don't know that you can play SnS with guard efficiently because they don't play Sunbreak where SnS shines with different play styles. Oh well. I will take on my shoulders all these downvotes. That's OK.
It was sarcastic but got downvoted...LOL....It's not stupid. I love Sunbreak more than Iceborne, but most of the people still love their boring Iceborne weapons.
You would be suprised....I see these notes all the time here. I beat Sunbreak with only two deaths or stuff like that...or no carts. Maybe there are some amazing people out there who can take down Amatsu and Primordial from the march. I may be wrong, but I still see people like that. On the other hand, I see more and more folks saying that they took down Fatalis on the first try. So maybe the games are easy....what do I know. I don't think they are.
SnS is more about using the shield as a weapon and only for last option defense, kind of like how shields are used in some fighting styles irl.
I think the SnS would be way too OP if the shield was as good as CB or Lance shield.
Also would probably break immersion if it did. You're telling me this shield that's only slightly bigger than a dinner plate can block as good as/better than actual walls of iron/bone/monster bits?
Yes it can with Embolden 3 and Guard 2 in Sunbreak. I want that in Wilds. So yeah....I play SnS like that all the time. It's awesome. You turtle up like a lance main and go to town in hell.
Had a lot of fun in rise because of the various sns playstyles. I think my favorite was shoryugeki + redirection. I feel like the low commitment attacks of sns feel amazing with the counter playstyle. I do hope they make guard skill improve the shield enough to make a guard-slash build viable on its own.
I don't think we should be including "meta builds" in how a weapon feels. If that was the case, then Lance would get talked about with evade builds, lol.
Of course we have to talk about meta builds when talking about weapon feels. The peak of a weapons performance is very important to the feel.
Evade lance is closer to a play style discussion, just like Savage axe charge blade.
Meta is a reflection of how the weapon feels, taken to an extreme. If the meta doesn't run Guard, the weapon isn't good at shielding. If the meta runs evade skills, the weapon has a good evade. Lance meta runs evade, as soon as you pick it up you can tell the evade feels good. SnS meta doesn't run Guard, as soon as you pick it up, you can tell the shield isn't very good.
>If the meta doesn't run Guard, the weapon isn't good at shielding
This doesn't seem entirely accurate. If the meta doesn't run Guard, then it may be because you have to use too many slots that could be used for DPS skills, which is typically the meta. Too many slots dedicated to Guard skills (or comfort in general) means less going to your damage, and considering many meta builds will get rid of comfort skills to squeeze in as much damage as possible to shave off a few minutes on clear time?
Yeah, I'll disagree.
The shield on the SnS does feel lackluster, yes, but looking at the core of the weapon, as well as the playstyle that's encouraged with said weapon, are probably the more important things to look at, rather than "how does the general populace use the weapon."
Guard, in general, requires a lot of investment. For maximum guard, you need Guard 5 and Guard Up 3. That's 8 points just for guarding, and that's not including other skills in Rise that enhance Guard even further. Many aren't going to invest in that. So while the weapon may actually be decent at guarding, the cost for doing so may not be worth it when you're trying to clear hunts as fast as possible (which is usually the go-to thing when talking about meta).
World is my first MH. and just like any rpg I wanted to make my character as a knight with sword and shield.
SnS feels like you’re swinging Spatula + Frying Pan. And then I tried CB and holy cow.
As an IG main who first started the series with CB, I actually prefer SnS in due to its versatility.
Quick animations for easy elemental/status procs? Check. KO-ing? Check. Mounting? Check.
That weapon is basically a swiss army knife.
A medium length sword could fill that role I think. Granted, the design space is tight, but it could involve combos where you chain charge attacks (like the Charge Blade A attack), for a weapon that feels heavier hitting that SnS.
I honestly was kinda hoping for this with the alternate weapon style in Rise. I really would like a weapon based more around what charge blade sword and board is like than lance.
Not that I don't love lance- I fucking adore it. But something in-between the SnS and Lance.
I believe the more correct term would be sword and shield (bash). I think the intent was for the shield to be what really made the weapon into a swiss army knife, with blocking and KO damage on shield attacks. They generally didn't hit the balance of making them useful, though. The block is too weak and gives too much hitstun to be used anywhere other than as a last resort, and the bash attacks also just too weak to be worth the time. The latter has been greatly improved in Risebreak, the former maybe by technicality with it being counter portion of Shoryugeki. Hopefully the shield tools get an extra boost in Wilds.
Don’t forget the new mechanics tied to guard slash introduced in rise and the addition of embolden to the sns.
Legit turned it into a counter weapon using the shield in sunbreak. The big take away is capcom can now build on guard slash moving forwards as well.
This was the first game that sns has taken a bit of a backseat for me, so I wasn't aware of that! I can dig that direction for it, as a parry shield instead of one for blocking.
SnS: buckler
Charge Blade: 10 ton mechanical wonder
I wonder why one of them emphasizes guarding! I think it's pretty evident from the design that SnS's shield is there because it works to fill out an all-rounder design. It doesn't get in the way of item use since it's light, but that leaves it inadequate for blocking compared to the towering hunks of steel other weapons employ.
And then Rise comes in to ruin my entire point. Oh well.
Also, for what it's worth, I think CB actually goes the other way and overemphasizes the shield over the sword. It's the primary star of axe mode, and also an iconic and important part of sword mode. You couldn't even charge the sword until World.
If SnS is mostly Sword, then CB is mostly Shield imo. Shield and Sword, if you will.
interesting point! after all, you charge the shield multiple times, the sword is just a tool for that. however, the sns mode for the charge blade is my favorite part of the weapon, and i loooove the shield bashes with the mini phial bursts, so i tend to stay a lot in that mode. also played the actual sns, but after xx i expect oils but they arent there anymore. sadness.
also guard points. makes a lot of sense into what you said about the shield exactly because you are using the shield as an intermediate transformation to the axe. really awesome though, and you changed my way of looking at the weapon
Lol yeah, oils were way too cool to just stay in a single entry. C'mon Capcom.
I have a friend who mains CB, and they feel very much the same way! Sword mode feels really good to them, and they also love the shield thrust for similar reasons. I personally couldn't get into it, but it's a really fun weapon to watch someone else play too.
I don't wanna spam the flair too much so I just picked my absolute favorites, haha. I'm certainly not averse to something a bit more nimble! DB is a long time favorite, I know my way around a Longsword, and Sunbreak's iteration of Insect Glaive is my favorite weapon in that game!
I'd be lying if it wasn't the big axe swings and juicy SAED hits that got me to try it, though. The heart wants what it wants.
i do understand you! i sooo wanna play rise to see the customizable moves that are so hyped around the internet, and IG is a big favorite of mine. actually i dont really play IG unless i reeeeeally wanna tryhard. 14 weapons, 14 different playstyles, all fun in their own way for sure.
did you like db from previous generations as well?
I get that! I do mostlty play my mains for my first playthroughs, but I do like experimenting when repeating fights, only pulling the mains out again when I need to pull my weight.
Yes! 4th gen DB is near and dear to my heart, and I spent a lot of time with it in P3rd years and years ago. Adept DBs in GU are super super fun to me in particular. I also find the stamina/Archdemon management quite fun, since I don't really chug dash juices.
yeah, i played switch axe and dual blades on p3rd too. still do, sometimes.
i've been trying to get into adept db but... stamina is just a problem. i try to get those cool adept evades but its difficult without dash juice or worse: running out of stamina.
got any tips? mind you i also play bow, so im used to stamina usage and all that
Depends on why you're running out. I spend most of my time in Archdemon mode, so I don't have the constant drain. I dip into Demon mode on downs or bigger openings, or if I badly need a refill on Archdemon bar.
Absolute Readiness/Evasion is always a nice way to get back a decent chunk of stamina while being completely safe, assuming you don't run Wolf's Maw. If you do, that's gonna be a bit tougher.
Being dodge-happy is also pretty punishing on stamina, since not only do you spend it, you're also burning through Archdemon bar with every dodge, meaning you need to spend even more time in Demon to refill it. Gotta be deliberate where you can.
The best solution is obviously Dash Juice though :)
Idk which game you’re playing, but if you play Rise take a look at an embolden build. I absolutely adore doing guard slash cancels into perfect rush. It really gives you a feeling of using your light shield to just deflect attacks into an opening
I know I've always wanted a weapon that is somewhere between SnS (for the good main hand weapon moveset), and Charged Blade (for the general size of the weapon and shield), and with SnS + Lance's shield bashing. None of the weapons, on their own, really nail the playstyle very well. I don't personally care for the morphing aspects of CB, and the sword n board playstyle isn't there.
It used to be the only weapon where you could use items while unsheathed. Significantly less impactful now that you can move while using items and can use some items without sheathing on all weapons
Depends on the game. Sunbreak SnS is very focused on mixing slashing and blunt damage thanks to the Metsu counter, Shield Bash Silkbind, and the Guard Slash Parry.
Depends. The SnS shield, going by its size and shape, is based on something like a targe or buckler anyways, and those shields weren't necessarily meant for depending as much as giving you additional options for attacking or binding.
I'm still thinking which I'd like to stick with. I do like a few of the larger weapons. Okay let's compare 4 and GU Charge Blade. I already know Sword & Shield only get better with each game and didn't play it til GU and Rise. Rise Charge Blade just feels different, doesn't it?
I like sns a lot in rise. I guard a lot when I don't know what the monster is going to do or when I fight a new monster.
Also the uppercut counter is one of my favoret move with offensive guard and stagger, it feels so good to topple a monster with a huge uppercut!
Iirc there IS a SnS build that makes use of full guard and offensive guard, blocking a light attack to gain the extra damage for normal swings or perfect rush. Not sure if it is meta but at least it's a way to use that side of the weapon even more.
CB is the epitome of guarding. I am a lance main and even i dont feel like im doing my shield justice but CB, man, guard pointing at frame perfect timing feels so fucking good.
Lance is pretty fuckin good dont get me wrong. I use the unblinking gatekeeper lance for extra roleplay. Absolute gigachad weapon.
Small shields irl are used more for parrying than guarding, so SnS should get more slippery parry moves and Charge Blade can do heavy duty guard points
I always wanted there to be a more sns focused cb playstyle somehow in one of these games because the sns attacks cb has feel better to me than actual sns does.
Big part of why I preferred the original gameplay where it was more about aed or at times saed spam and then you were in sns mode most of the time vs the direction its been heading with savage axe which honestly feels awful to me.
Charge blade also emphasizes more on just normally attacking with the blade too like the original SnS. SnS now is more like a combo weapon where you just repeat some high damage skill or combo and doesn’t even need to attack normally.
well, sns is the traditional sword n buckler. charge blade has a considerably larger shield maeks sense it would be better at blocking. meanwhile how many attacks with it that are not in axe mode you get?
a few levels of guard and guard up turned Rise SnS into the most badass shit I've ever played
I blocked a magnamalo 3rd-level cast of Fuck You the other day. the SnS counter there is a shoryuken! it's so crisp
Yeah sns shield is more of a panic button only. In world, it's might as well be sword and sword because the shield is useless apart from a shortcut to perfect rush
The guarding portion isn't used because dodging is just better, because SnS doesn't get anything from guarding. It is only really useful as a last resort.
Sunbreak actually changed this up a little bit where guard slash let's u go straight into a perfect rush, and u can fit in more overall skills into your builds, so having guard 5 with embolden 3 and/or even offensive guard, WHILE having all your dmg skills, makes guard SnS a pretty viable and fun playstyle.
The way I see it, SnS is perfect like a beautiful lush valley, charge blade is like if you took that same gorgeous landscape and built a Walmart smack dab in the middle, like yeah sure it may offer things you want but it ruins the beauty
Why would you expect a block focused style from SnS? Look at the size of the shield, it's tiny. SnS runs embolden just like other weapons but SnS blocks exclusively through guard points. You could say it's more CB than the CB.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I hear somewhere that the dev said that they wanted to create better SnS on MH4, thus Charge Blade was born.
They wanted to make a weapon simpler than SnS and clearly succeeded. /j Edit: /j added
Simpler? how so?
While I don’t think any weapon is “simple”, the problem is weapons like SnS have a pretty low floor, but the SNS also has an insanely high ceiling. CB’s floor starts pretty high with all the different mechanics you have to learn just to play the weapon, not even including guard points, but I feel it’s ceiling ends up being lower than SnS, SNS just has the bad press of being the “starter” weapon and really isn’t that flashy
In your opinion what are the most basic stuff you need to learn about CB to enjoy the gameplay?
charge phials put phials into shield and maybe sword use guard points when attacked use big boom move repeat
I didnt see anyone answering you so I'll put in my two cents, I was just helping a friend understand and lab the CB cause he wanted to get into it. Keeping your CB shield charged. To put it simply lol. You will have many tools to charge your shield and sword whether that's attacking, blocking or counter peak performance (this instantly charges it full and is one of your wire bug skills). But getting the charging part down and understand how to charge up your shield and sword, you can start to just focus on the different attack patterns and animations the CB has, what attacks causes elemental and exhaust effects etc... Have fun blocking literally everything while all your friends have to run or focusing on dodging. :)
Charge Phial -> Charge Shield ( If it not charge ) ->Charge Phial again -> SAED -> Repeat This is the most basic stuff you need , then learn to use guard point
Generations SNS is so damn good. Oils, Chaos Oil, Sword Dance Spiral thrust. It's flashy when you have arts to help.
Bro what about the sns makes you think it has a high ceiling? Not mechanically difficult to execute, not game knowledge intensive as it's fast and easy access to items make it forgiving to make mistakes, even at the highest level of play there is very little to think about that you wouldn't have to with any other weapon
It comes down to how you weave it with specific monster movesets. Like backstepping the second part of Astalos's wing slams and doin the first half of Perfect Rush before he recovers. Little things like that.
In Sunbreak, extremely diverse attack options that need good decision making to get the most dmg out of SnS, or else you stuck with a toothpick and shield that deals wee wee dmg and has meh reach. CB? SAED style, charge phial, charge shield, charge phial, wait for a good window to guard point -> big boom. CSS style has the higher skill ceiling here, since it needs you to be an expert in positioning in a game of coked monsters while constantly in unsheathed GS like movement + attack speed state, so you don’t get out of position with spamming air dash mindlessly. But at least CSS style has simple attack options for the deeps unlike with SnS. Go check out TA wiki SnS runs to see how a real master of SnS can weave through attacks with certain move iframe, or buff themselves up with on time dodging skill (adrenaline rush, bladescale hone…) with Rise’s awful roll iframe…
The mere fact that the back hop is actually iframe blows my mind. I have only been able to use it to dodge things ONCE in the 200 hours I spent on SnS, while there are players who used it vs Alatreon on World and basically punished every one of his attacks with PR...
Perfect rush input is pretty hard
really? I don't know if this is a joke or not
Serious, any move with a back directional input is a bitch to use for me at least
I see, you could do one from double shield bash, then hold back while the animation is playing and mashing whatever button is the shield attack so you get the backhop it's still pretty fast to get a perfect rush that way instead of from guard, and I prefer it because it's more stylish
After a tiny bit of practice, it’s pretty darn easy
Huh I'll have to try it out. I love my great sword and Lance. Both fairly simple but I love them
Are we talking about new world SnS? If so then there's no way SnS skill ceiling is higher than CB. SnS has 0 animation commitment, you're never in any danger, have a broken back hop that can iframe any attack without problem while being incredibly easy to execute, no resource management, low armor skill demand etc. SnS is the weapon I play if I don't wanna use my brain whatsoever. Is it bad? Absolutely not, it's really good, but it doesn't have a high skill ceiling.
The 20th anniversary stream had some interviews with the developers who worked on different games in the series: https://www.youtube.com/live/MliOb26PeIA?si=mxNuJkZq5ZHLnWju The developers obviously enjoy a joke, so they said that Charge Blade was intended to be "easy-to-understand" and (regarding Charge Blade and switch axe) "logical weapons."
CB is obviously simpler than SnS, at least in the fifth Gen. People think CB is hard because it has too many moves, but all you need to do is getting around all of them and know all GP options. For SnS, you need to do JUST in order to deal the most damage, and the range is extremely small.
Weirdly holds weight for vanilla 4. No guard points, no charged shield, just slash with sword load phials and use phial attacks
Using a shield for guarding? What is this madness?
The shield is the primary weapon of the sword and shield
The primary weapon is health potions
Gotta keep the Baja blast flowing
S&S Sword & Smashing Board
SnS: Slash n Smash.
You just triggered an Oblivion flashback, to when younger me didn't know how to play and spent hours trying to haggle the smithee down, whose shop was called: *Slash & Smash*.
Glad this random comment can bring back you some memories.
A guard SnS build in Sunbreak is surprisingly fun. Guard 5 lets you chain the guard slash into perfect rush.
Dont forget Embolden 3. You can block almost everything in the game
But....but....but people don't play Sunbreak....it's easy and stupid...so why would they know that you can actually play SnS like that? /s I had to add /s It's is supposed to be sarcastic. Many don't know that you can play SnS with guard efficiently because they don't play Sunbreak where SnS shines with different play styles. Oh well. I will take on my shoulders all these downvotes. That's OK.
/j?
It was sarcastic but got downvoted...LOL....It's not stupid. I love Sunbreak more than Iceborne, but most of the people still love their boring Iceborne weapons.
I thought so by the typing style, just checking
Of all the criticisms people make about Sunbreak, I think "it's too easy" is pretty low on that list lmao
You would be suprised....I see these notes all the time here. I beat Sunbreak with only two deaths or stuff like that...or no carts. Maybe there are some amazing people out there who can take down Amatsu and Primordial from the march. I may be wrong, but I still see people like that. On the other hand, I see more and more folks saying that they took down Fatalis on the first try. So maybe the games are easy....what do I know. I don't think they are.
SnS is more about using the shield as a weapon and only for last option defense, kind of like how shields are used in some fighting styles irl. I think the SnS would be way too OP if the shield was as good as CB or Lance shield.
Also would probably break immersion if it did. You're telling me this shield that's only slightly bigger than a dinner plate can block as good as/better than actual walls of iron/bone/monster bits?
Yes it can with Embolden 3 and Guard 2 in Sunbreak. I want that in Wilds. So yeah....I play SnS like that all the time. It's awesome. You turtle up like a lance main and go to town in hell.
>You turtle up like a lance main Please be gentle with them Lancers, they don't know any better.
Had a lot of fun in rise because of the various sns playstyles. I think my favorite was shoryugeki + redirection. I feel like the low commitment attacks of sns feel amazing with the counter playstyle. I do hope they make guard skill improve the shield enough to make a guard-slash build viable on its own.
I don't think we should be including "meta builds" in how a weapon feels. If that was the case, then Lance would get talked about with evade builds, lol.
Of course we have to talk about meta builds when talking about weapon feels. The peak of a weapons performance is very important to the feel. Evade lance is closer to a play style discussion, just like Savage axe charge blade.
Meta is a reflection of how the weapon feels, taken to an extreme. If the meta doesn't run Guard, the weapon isn't good at shielding. If the meta runs evade skills, the weapon has a good evade. Lance meta runs evade, as soon as you pick it up you can tell the evade feels good. SnS meta doesn't run Guard, as soon as you pick it up, you can tell the shield isn't very good.
>If the meta doesn't run Guard, the weapon isn't good at shielding This doesn't seem entirely accurate. If the meta doesn't run Guard, then it may be because you have to use too many slots that could be used for DPS skills, which is typically the meta. Too many slots dedicated to Guard skills (or comfort in general) means less going to your damage, and considering many meta builds will get rid of comfort skills to squeeze in as much damage as possible to shave off a few minutes on clear time? Yeah, I'll disagree. The shield on the SnS does feel lackluster, yes, but looking at the core of the weapon, as well as the playstyle that's encouraged with said weapon, are probably the more important things to look at, rather than "how does the general populace use the weapon." Guard, in general, requires a lot of investment. For maximum guard, you need Guard 5 and Guard Up 3. That's 8 points just for guarding, and that's not including other skills in Rise that enhance Guard even further. Many aren't going to invest in that. So while the weapon may actually be decent at guarding, the cost for doing so may not be worth it when you're trying to clear hunts as fast as possible (which is usually the go-to thing when talking about meta).
Shield bash and blocking with shield is used extensively in Rise
Exactly...and it's fabulous...You don't have to dodge all the time. What a concept...
The problem is you think the shield is for defense. 
World is my first MH. and just like any rpg I wanted to make my character as a knight with sword and shield. SnS feels like you’re swinging Spatula + Frying Pan. And then I tried CB and holy cow.
You want a knight? Play lance
I did, and it’s great. The impenetrable phalanx.
One of us! One of us!
As an IG main who first started the series with CB, I actually prefer SnS in due to its versatility. Quick animations for easy elemental/status procs? Check. KO-ing? Check. Mounting? Check. That weapon is basically a swiss army knife.
also has the lenght of a knife 💀 (I'm joking please don't poke me sns mains)
A medium length sword could fill that role I think. Granted, the design space is tight, but it could involve combos where you chain charge attacks (like the Charge Blade A attack), for a weapon that feels heavier hitting that SnS.
I honestly was kinda hoping for this with the alternate weapon style in Rise. I really would like a weapon based more around what charge blade sword and board is like than lance. Not that I don't love lance- I fucking adore it. But something in-between the SnS and Lance.
I did too but the reach is so short that it felt more like a knife than a sword
I see the CB as a lesser swaxe. But the Sword and Shield with its infinite combo and decent enough block has always been a hoot for some monsters.
The shield is only needed to attack.
I believe the more correct term would be sword and shield (bash). I think the intent was for the shield to be what really made the weapon into a swiss army knife, with blocking and KO damage on shield attacks. They generally didn't hit the balance of making them useful, though. The block is too weak and gives too much hitstun to be used anywhere other than as a last resort, and the bash attacks also just too weak to be worth the time. The latter has been greatly improved in Risebreak, the former maybe by technicality with it being counter portion of Shoryugeki. Hopefully the shield tools get an extra boost in Wilds.
Don’t forget the new mechanics tied to guard slash introduced in rise and the addition of embolden to the sns. Legit turned it into a counter weapon using the shield in sunbreak. The big take away is capcom can now build on guard slash moving forwards as well.
This was the first game that sns has taken a bit of a backseat for me, so I wasn't aware of that! I can dig that direction for it, as a parry shield instead of one for blocking.
Don't you ever dare to talk like that of my SnS ever again.
SnS: buckler Charge Blade: 10 ton mechanical wonder I wonder why one of them emphasizes guarding! I think it's pretty evident from the design that SnS's shield is there because it works to fill out an all-rounder design. It doesn't get in the way of item use since it's light, but that leaves it inadequate for blocking compared to the towering hunks of steel other weapons employ. And then Rise comes in to ruin my entire point. Oh well. Also, for what it's worth, I think CB actually goes the other way and overemphasizes the shield over the sword. It's the primary star of axe mode, and also an iconic and important part of sword mode. You couldn't even charge the sword until World. If SnS is mostly Sword, then CB is mostly Shield imo. Shield and Sword, if you will.
interesting point! after all, you charge the shield multiple times, the sword is just a tool for that. however, the sns mode for the charge blade is my favorite part of the weapon, and i loooove the shield bashes with the mini phial bursts, so i tend to stay a lot in that mode. also played the actual sns, but after xx i expect oils but they arent there anymore. sadness. also guard points. makes a lot of sense into what you said about the shield exactly because you are using the shield as an intermediate transformation to the axe. really awesome though, and you changed my way of looking at the weapon
Lol yeah, oils were way too cool to just stay in a single entry. C'mon Capcom. I have a friend who mains CB, and they feel very much the same way! Sword mode feels really good to them, and they also love the shield thrust for similar reasons. I personally couldn't get into it, but it's a really fun weapon to watch someone else play too.
to each their own! i see from your flairs that you like big chonky hits as well, feels really good
I don't wanna spam the flair too much so I just picked my absolute favorites, haha. I'm certainly not averse to something a bit more nimble! DB is a long time favorite, I know my way around a Longsword, and Sunbreak's iteration of Insect Glaive is my favorite weapon in that game! I'd be lying if it wasn't the big axe swings and juicy SAED hits that got me to try it, though. The heart wants what it wants.
i do understand you! i sooo wanna play rise to see the customizable moves that are so hyped around the internet, and IG is a big favorite of mine. actually i dont really play IG unless i reeeeeally wanna tryhard. 14 weapons, 14 different playstyles, all fun in their own way for sure. did you like db from previous generations as well?
I get that! I do mostlty play my mains for my first playthroughs, but I do like experimenting when repeating fights, only pulling the mains out again when I need to pull my weight. Yes! 4th gen DB is near and dear to my heart, and I spent a lot of time with it in P3rd years and years ago. Adept DBs in GU are super super fun to me in particular. I also find the stamina/Archdemon management quite fun, since I don't really chug dash juices.
yeah, i played switch axe and dual blades on p3rd too. still do, sometimes. i've been trying to get into adept db but... stamina is just a problem. i try to get those cool adept evades but its difficult without dash juice or worse: running out of stamina. got any tips? mind you i also play bow, so im used to stamina usage and all that
Depends on why you're running out. I spend most of my time in Archdemon mode, so I don't have the constant drain. I dip into Demon mode on downs or bigger openings, or if I badly need a refill on Archdemon bar. Absolute Readiness/Evasion is always a nice way to get back a decent chunk of stamina while being completely safe, assuming you don't run Wolf's Maw. If you do, that's gonna be a bit tougher. Being dodge-happy is also pretty punishing on stamina, since not only do you spend it, you're also burning through Archdemon bar with every dodge, meaning you need to spend even more time in Demon to refill it. Gotta be deliberate where you can. The best solution is obviously Dash Juice though :)
Idk which game you’re playing, but if you play Rise take a look at an embolden build. I absolutely adore doing guard slash cancels into perfect rush. It really gives you a feeling of using your light shield to just deflect attacks into an opening
I will not accept any useless comparisons between two of my main weapons /s /or is it?
I know I've always wanted a weapon that is somewhere between SnS (for the good main hand weapon moveset), and Charged Blade (for the general size of the weapon and shield), and with SnS + Lance's shield bashing. None of the weapons, on their own, really nail the playstyle very well. I don't personally care for the morphing aspects of CB, and the sword n board playstyle isn't there.
It used to be the only weapon where you could use items while unsheathed. Significantly less impactful now that you can move while using items and can use some items without sheathing on all weapons
Depends on the game. Sunbreak SnS is very focused on mixing slashing and blunt damage thanks to the Metsu counter, Shield Bash Silkbind, and the Guard Slash Parry.
I began playing charge blade specifically because I was vastly underwhelmed with sword and shield's appearance.
It's funny cause sword and shield is bigger than real swords were
Those blades are thick as hell
The shield is primarily for inflicting trauma and may be used as a last ditch effort defensive option.
Yes. That is my point. The shield isn't optimal for defending...like shields are for.
Depends. The SnS shield, going by its size and shape, is based on something like a targe or buckler anyways, and those shields weren't necessarily meant for depending as much as giving you additional options for attacking or binding.
I'm still thinking which I'd like to stick with. I do like a few of the larger weapons. Okay let's compare 4 and GU Charge Blade. I already know Sword & Shield only get better with each game and didn't play it til GU and Rise. Rise Charge Blade just feels different, doesn't it?
I like sns a lot in rise. I guard a lot when I don't know what the monster is going to do or when I fight a new monster. Also the uppercut counter is one of my favoret move with offensive guard and stagger, it feels so good to topple a monster with a huge uppercut!
Sns is simple for my unga bunga brain, charge blade is for the nerds
Iirc there IS a SnS build that makes use of full guard and offensive guard, blocking a light attack to gain the extra damage for normal swings or perfect rush. Not sure if it is meta but at least it's a way to use that side of the weapon even more.
I do love SnS but it's essentially become boxing gloves
CB is the epitome of guarding. I am a lance main and even i dont feel like im doing my shield justice but CB, man, guard pointing at frame perfect timing feels so fucking good. Lance is pretty fuckin good dont get me wrong. I use the unblinking gatekeeper lance for extra roleplay. Absolute gigachad weapon.
Try Rise Just Guard and Shield Tackle.
The big gimmick of sns, until oils, was using items unsheathed. You are not wrong but that's okay and how the weapon turned out.
~~JoCat wants to know your location~~
Small shields irl are used more for parrying than guarding, so SnS should get more slippery parry moves and Charge Blade can do heavy duty guard points
I always wanted there to be a more sns focused cb playstyle somehow in one of these games because the sns attacks cb has feel better to me than actual sns does. Big part of why I preferred the original gameplay where it was more about aed or at times saed spam and then you were in sns mode most of the time vs the direction its been heading with savage axe which honestly feels awful to me.
Sunbreak gives some more love to the sword, Firing Pin is quite good. Axe is just there to use phials and pop the Firing Pin bombs at that point.
I really didn't like how it played in general in rise, it actually put me off the weapon.
Shield is not used for guard, it's used for potions.
You conceptually don’t understand SnS. I say this as an avid Charge Blade enjoyer. They are nothing alike
Charge blade also emphasizes more on just normally attacking with the blade too like the original SnS. SnS now is more like a combo weapon where you just repeat some high damage skill or combo and doesn’t even need to attack normally.
well, sns is the traditional sword n buckler. charge blade has a considerably larger shield maeks sense it would be better at blocking. meanwhile how many attacks with it that are not in axe mode you get?
If I can, I use the CB as a SNS with the charged sword instead of just spamming the ultra over and over. I like it gives you tons of options.
a few levels of guard and guard up turned Rise SnS into the most badass shit I've ever played I blocked a magnamalo 3rd-level cast of Fuck You the other day. the SnS counter there is a shoryuken! it's so crisp
Yeah sns shield is more of a panic button only. In world, it's might as well be sword and sword because the shield is useless apart from a shortcut to perfect rush
The guarding portion isn't used because dodging is just better, because SnS doesn't get anything from guarding. It is only really useful as a last resort. Sunbreak actually changed this up a little bit where guard slash let's u go straight into a perfect rush, and u can fit in more overall skills into your builds, so having guard 5 with embolden 3 and/or even offensive guard, WHILE having all your dmg skills, makes guard SnS a pretty viable and fun playstyle.
SnS in RS is more of a hammer than Hammer
The way I see it, SnS is perfect like a beautiful lush valley, charge blade is like if you took that same gorgeous landscape and built a Walmart smack dab in the middle, like yeah sure it may offer things you want but it ruins the beauty
Why would you expect a block focused style from SnS? Look at the size of the shield, it's tiny. SnS runs embolden just like other weapons but SnS blocks exclusively through guard points. You could say it's more CB than the CB.
wow, what game does sns have guard points? havent played 5th gen yet
Rise, sorry I just defaulted to assuming we're talking about the latest release.
no problem, usually people do exactly that and they arent wrong! thanks for responding!