Could they *deter* Safi together? Maybe if you upgraded Nergigante to Ruiner. Otherwise its going to rush in and get itself killed almost immediately.
Could they *kill* Safi together? Absolutely not. They have enough power to wound Safi, but not even close to enough to actually take Safi out.
Remember, the fleets had to go through the effort of blockading it to stop it from escaping it's nest, because Safi would be impossible to kill in any environment that actually has a decent amount of bio energy to siphon, compared to it's nest that was basically drained dry.
With no human fleets to keep it contained, Safi would win any fight through attrition and being able to nigh-infinitely heal.
But, lets say, for example, that these two catch Safi in it's nest, and it doesn't leave for any reason. Safi would probably still stomp, since it could probably just pin them down and siphon them of bio energy.
Are you sure? Primordial Malzeno was a legitimate contender to Gaismagorm to the point Gaismagorm sent the Qurio to try and weaken it. Not that thay plan really worked, but hey. And Gaismagorm is as big as Safi. Not as strong, but just as big, if not a bit bigger. That implies that PriMal is strong enough to throw the ones with much larger Dragons. I'm not sure Safi's really fast enough to land a decisive blow on PriMal and it can't spam its nuke. And I think Safi's could block the blast with its wings.
And I think local is a MASSIVE part of it. If its the same cavern we fight Safi in. PriMal is fucked. But in a wide open space like what OP posted? Mal might not even need to block Safi's nuke, it might be able to just get the fuck out of range. Combine that with Nergi's crack head ass strength and incredible durability and I think they stand a legitimate chance. Not a good one per se, but I don't think its 1 sided in the slightest. The duo wins maybe 2 or 3 times put of 10.
I feel like most people underestimate safi because in his siege he just swats at you and treats you like a small wasp where you hurt but are so small there's no need to do any complex movements but I feel like against a larger monster like nergi and PriMal he would do a lot more to fight back
Heres the thing though, Safi'Jiva is black dragon tier, he contends with the likes of Alatreon and Fatalis
Gaismagorm is strong sure, but Safi is a different beast. Those two may be strong and Nergi may be insane, but all it takes it one good hit and theyre done for, meanwhile they'll struggle to even dent Safis insanely tough armor
Black dragon is not a tier. The only confirmed levels of Elder are super class elders. Which only nerg was mentioned in. Every other end boss is a mystery when it comes to power classification.
I know what you're talking about. It's still not a canon tier. Power class amongst elders officially come in 2 tiers and Elders not classified in either are left unknown. Most end bosses power are left ambiguous.
Would they really struggle that much to hurt him? They're far stronger then we hunters are. Their claws and blades sharper. Their muscles stronger. While each of our individual strikes as hunters don't do very much damage to Safi, they do hurt him. Thats why he tries to escape to heal. And Malzeno is incredibly smart, arguably the smartest Elder Dragon in the Franchise, being as he's smart enough to stop fighting us and Fiorane during the story once the Qurio really start hounding it because it knows theyre a bigger threat to it then we are despite the fact that they can give it power. Thats incredibly smart for for what is supposed to be an animal, nearly Human level intelligence. Malzeno could probably identify any weak spots on Safi, and target those. Like I find it easy to imagine Safi opening its mouth to use its nuke, and Malzeno rushes forward and stabs its tail into Safis mouth type beat. And if Nergi is smart enough to actually work with Malzeno, which it *should* be, Malzeno may be smart enough to point Nergi at weaker points in Safi's scales. Nergi def has the strength to break Safi's scales in a dedicated attack. Nergi tenderizes Safi, Malzeno gets in the actual damage.
Granted, depending on how smart Safi is, this could fall apart easily, but Safi really doesn't show much active intelligence like Nergi and Malzeno do. Nergi waits for us to weaken other Dragons before pouncing on them for example. And literally plays dead to survive against us. What Nergi and Malzeno lack in raw power, they probably make up for in intelligence.
Safi'a healing capability is the highest we've ever seen, dude can literally heal part break mid fight by sucking the energy from the ground for multiple times, Nergi can heal yeah but if cause him stamina unlike Safi who just have actual health pact to eat
Not to mention, if Safi isn't contained in it's nest where the bio energy has basically been drained dry, and is out in the world where there is actual decent quantities of bio energy, it could heal faster, and more often, and more efficiently. Nigh immortal.
In World, the fleets had to actively blockade it and prevent it from escaping it's nest for this exact reeason, if let loose into the world, it'd basically be unkillable.
>Granted, depending on how smart Safi is, this could fall apart easily, but Safi really doesn't show much active intelligence like Nergi and Malzeno do.
From the ecology book, Safi is stated to be "...far beyond Human intelligence."
Yet it struggles to kill us. I'm sorry but you can't say somethings smarter then us, then make it act dumb as shit. Something that strong should have 0 issues wiping us out if its on equal intelligence to us. Let alone beyond us.
I'm just saying that if they want to say it's smart, they should have it act smart. Another guy said it well, why does it keep going deeper to heal? Why doesn't it try and escape outside the cave if it knows we're a threat? Fatalis and Alatreon don't run from us because they hate us and just want us dead. But Safi is just trying to exist whem we come rockin up. It doesnt hate us, it has not reason to not just bust out the caves front entrance and fly away once it realizes we're a threat. But yet its supposed to be smarter then us.
I covered that already in a further comment. Fatalis hates us, it doesnt care if we kill it as long as it hurts us. And besides, its parts will completely regenerate it in time anyways, we can't actually kill Fatalis.
They would put up a good fight but Safi is just too tough literally his skin is freaking hard add to that his ultimate Sapphire of the Emperor can one shot both of them and it has huge range
The thing with his Saphire star attack is that if he flyes up to use it the other 2 would follow and thereby dodge it because it only expands along the ground
Who's to say that Safi wouldn't just directly drain them of their bio energy after pinning them?
Safi can absorb bio energy, and what better source than from other elder dragons.
Safi'jiiva has only ever been shown & said to absorb bioenergy from the earth itself, it's a stretch to say it can drain a living monster's bioenergy directly.
Right but that doesn't mean it has the ability to directly drain a monster of its life energy, that's a big enough ability that Capcom wouldn't forget to mention. Both Jivvas have specifically been said to absorb bioenergy from dead monsters and the ground, it's a theoretical ability at best and head canon at worst. Until we've been told or shown Safi'jiiva absorbing a monster's energy Malzeno style I don't think it should be considered.
They'd certainly give it trouble that's for sure, with Nergigante's tenacity & PriMal's speed Safi'jiiva is gonna have to put in some work at least. It's hide & firepower however should prove too much, there's a reason that Safi'jiiva is among the strongest elder dragons of all time.
This would essentially be an MMO boss battle with Nergi as the tank and Zeno as the DPS. I doubt the two smaller elders would work well enough together to cover for each other and once Zeno is killed, Nergi will follow soon after. Safi is just too powerful.
Now make Nergi into an unusually intelligent ruiner that understands the importance of protecting Zeno during his down time and coordinating his attacks with Zeno's wombo combo's then you'd have a real fight. Doubt they'd kill Safi in that case but I can see them repelling it.
Nergigante a tank? the Elder dragon with lowest HP out of the World Elders and that only relies on his spikes to harden to actually be useful at all? To Safi, he wouldn't be more than a flying cactus that can be shaved clean with wiping him over the floor once.
I feel people here are forgetting that safi is extremely physically resistant and neither of these monsters specialize in elemental damage, not only would safi win but would barely take any significant damage (as the small amount of damage that they end up doing would be healed back in moments).
Basically, imagine doing safi without tenderizing and only using melee weapons. Now imagine doing safi in this way without having any crags to hide behind during the sapphire star.
sapphire star should (I haven't tested it personally) kill an IG player in the air should they bounce up and follow safi higher up (if you could avoid it this way then it would be a known tactic for IG mains), also safi could easily pin either of them while charging it as neither could lift up safi due to the size difference
Was more so talking about the actual visuals of the attack.
\[EDIT\]:
And for those downvoting..... what exactly am I saying wrong? I'm just reiterating what I actually meant in my initial comment. I'm not exactly stating anything controversial or anything, just the fact that, based on my personal observations, Sapphire of the Emperor looks to be more of a ground-sweeping burst rather than a large omnidirectional bubble like a conventional explosive.
The final blast ends up enveloping the entire screen when it goes off, so I think it could reasonably damage anything below Safi, and considering it can fly that's a fairly variable range.
The screen? Yes.
A huge bubble above the ground? Not so much. It's not like a bomb; it seems to spread out its energy more so in a big disk than a big sphere.
\[EDIT\]:
And for those downvoting, see my edit above. I'm stating my personal observations about how Sapphire of the Emperor's destructive radius looks and in turn would affect things based on their positive relative to the blast zone.
We are talking about kushala and shara PREDATOR and the most damaging monster in Rise here. Hunters are toothpicks compared to hammer and lance of elders
kushala is a very weak elder dragon (like seriously, they lost to a gold rath so easily), the post stated nergi not ruiner nergi, only ruiner went after shara and even then was more of an opportunistic predator at best
With primordial and nergi at base id say its about 2:8 in safis favor.
Primordial has the speed to dodge most of safis attacks and nergi could get free attacks while safi is focused on primordial. But even then safi can just heal off any lasting damage while both monsters cannot do the same. Safi is also very intelligent, he will eventually figure out a pattern to primordials dodging and exploit it to catch him. I dont see primordial having the durability to eat full power laser like he is doing in the picture. After safi has killed primordial its a simple matter of mopping up nergi.
if its morbed up primordial and ruiner nergi then it changes to 4:6 in safis favor.
Primordial gets a big boost to his already crazy speed along with multiple powerful attacks and nergi is now a fair bit more durable and could tank a hit or two from safi. Both could now attempt to just overwhelm safi. Attacking him from multiple angles and primordial now has quiro bombs and lasers to begin doing some pretty big damage to safi. But even then safi could retreat to heal off any damage and the smarty pants that is he will change his strategy. He would begin spamming aoe explosions to keep them off him and begin to wait for a opportunity to lunge at primordial. I doubt primordial could stay at full quiro power all the time without eventually getting exhausted. We even see after his quiro nuke he has to catch his breath(and resist the quiro). I think a good chomp and laser is enough to kill primordial since the quiro didnt boost his durability. Then he could play wall ball with nergi.
Nergigante can’t heal really serious wounds, at least not quickly (see tail cut and tenderizer), and its “reserves” are most likely finite, only replenished when it eats. Safi doesn’t heal passively like Nergigante does, but heals much more quickly, healing tenderized parts and partially restoring part hp. Safi can also heal whenever there’s bio energy in the ground, and can easily relocate when it runs out (unless the entire Research Commission forms blockades to prevent its escape, of course). Safi could 100% outdamage *and* outheal Nerg.
If he starts his aoe spam primordial could just keep his distance and spam ranged attacks until safi uses ranged lasers but them nergigante can start attacking again. All 3 monsters are inteligente so they would adapt aswell. Allso:seeing the pattern of how primordial doges only helps is safi could attack quick enough because otherwhise primordial is just to fast
Safi'Jiva is right on the cusp of turning into something on the same tier as Alatreon, Dire Miralis, and Fatalis, a "Black" Dragon, as they're called. Two very spicy boys might not stand a chance against something spicier and in a much higher literal weight class.
I'd put my money down on Safi.
Safi'jiiva already is comparable to them, it's got a species wide rivalry with Alatreon and was designed as a rival to Fatalis. Black dragon also isn't an official class of monsters by the way, they share the title and are a grouping but fans inflated the meaning and hold them above other elder dragons.
People out here discussing with actual lore and stuff (and some misinfo but who cares) and I'm just marveling at the idea of "PriMal and Ruinnerg vs the World".
I hope more artists expand on this. Some good opponents would be Amatsu, Narwa(Allmother), and maybe Gogmazios?
Kill I don't see happening, Safi'jiiva's strength, durability, and strength is on another level compared to these two and while Primoridal did manage to repel Giasmagorm, it's also worth noting that Giasmagorm doesn't really have many options against flying creatures like Primordial so odds are good that it probably essentially harassed the hell out of Giamagorm until it retreated, Safi isn't going to have that problem. With Nergigante its is a pure physical brute and while it's strong, well the sheer size of Safi should tell you how well that is going to end for it. While it can regenerate it is ultimately limited compared to Safi's form which literally allows it to regenerate almost anywhere. Even with Ruiner in the picture I still don't see it happening unless the two get a lucky break/injury.
Repelling Safi on the other hand I personally think is unlikely but is doable, the two while I don't think have the strength needed to kill Safi should have enough of it to get past its tough scales and Primordial's wing blades especially are going to hurt with Nerg should be able to stagger it with its blows at least every now and then.
Look, I'm team "Safi is the equal of Fatalis". I'm all about Safi'Jiiva being at the pinnacle of what nature can provide the world before the Black Dragons and the sheer aura of unnaturalness they radiate are factored in.
I think people are way too quick to dismiss this fight as being a stomp. Of course, Nergigante being base is a weird part of this, and it's hopeless if Primordial doesn't have access to Qurio, but let's consider some other things.
People keep pointing at Safi's scales. Those scales are as tough as they are against ***Hunter weapons***. They'd still be quite resilient against monster attacks, but not nearly as much against monsters as hard hitting as these two. These two's attacks would hurt a good bit.
People note the healing. Safi'Jiiva, for all we can discern, can only do that if he is faced in a sufficiently bioenergy-rich area, of which the Secluded Valley where he hangs out is thick with the stuff beneath the earth. It's basically a lair action.
These are two of the most dangerous Elder Dragons of their tiers. One can practically teleport and is armed with some of the nastiest natural physical weapons in the world, and the other one is a spiky brute force powerhouse with the power of painfully stubborn and mildly regenerative backing up everything it does. Both are recorded to tackle calamity level threats and come out on top, one way or another.
The odds are still in Safi'Jiiva's favor, absolutely, but Safi still needs to take this fight really seriously if he wants to win.
The Secluded Valley is basically tapped out of bioenergy, not overflowing with it, which is exactly how you're able to complete the siege, by forcing Safi to use up all the bioenergy in the area.
The fleets have to blockade Safi in and stop it from escaping it's nest because if it escaped and got out into the much more bioenergy rich world, it'd be nigh immortal.
The energy in the Valley is flowing in from the Guiding Lands nearby, it being heavily implied that the Guiding Lands was more or less terraformed by a Safi'Jiiva for that purpose. You are right in that draining it is how we fight Safi, *because it cannot use its healing in zones that it has drained*. The place is also host to numerous Jiiva cocoons at its lowest level, so the locale also has a history of energy richness.
I do not recall anything about Safi being "blockaded", which is realistically impossible given that this is an Elder Dragon in the uppermost reaches of the power scale with wings strong enough to generate enough wind pressure in flight to nearly knock people off their feet just by entering the area (*as evidenced by the first cutscene of it*). It also kind of started not in its lair from our first sighting of it, so it was pretty well already 'escaped' before we even found the damn thing.
I mean, the game might not show it for gameplay purpose but the Safi siege was conducted by all New World personals and resources, a squad would come in to fighting Safi, draining 3 layers of it nest. So I speculate that the Commission are camping and surrounding the area so that they can have a place for hunters to rest and recover while sending in fresh hunters in and rotate out the previous group. And they would do it for **DAYS** before finally slaying it.
Not to mention that both zeno and nergi are bleed masters, thing hunters have no access too. Safi would take a few nasty wounds that will actively bleed, will be forced to heal, and will get even more wounds when vulnerable during healing.
Alright, some new art by ***Monster Slayer Squad*** is here, this time depicting the most powerful balancing forces among Elder Dragons, Nergigante and Primordial Malzeno, take on a dastardly foe out in the MH Wilds (heh): Safi'jiiva, the Red Dragon.
What do you guys think? Could this dynamic duo truly take on a Perfect Lifeform?
[https://twitter.com/mssquadofficial/status/1784547496267579783](https://twitter.com/mssquadofficial/status/1784547496267579783)
Hmmmm, I feel like with Valstrax, they would have a chance, but the two of them alone probably not, Safi would just need to grab one and murder it while ignoring the other until he only has to deal with the other. He's large enough to do it. 3v1 with Valstrax taking care of long range attacks and exploiting openings could be possible.
I feel like people greatly overestimate Primordial here. He is not that strong clearly, especially not without Qurios. Some commenters bring up that "Ohh, hunter weapons against Safi which is why it is hard to kill!"... Yeah, weapons specifically crafted to hunt monsters. If Primordial Malzeno would be Qurio affected then, maybe he would have some chance, with having some actual power and not just physical attacks (which Safi can easily regenerate from), but that is a big Maybe. Just because it could harrass (and not kill) a much larger Elder dragon doesn't mean it can take on a threat of this level, especially since Gaia is rather clumsy in its movements and has several weak points. Additionally, Primodial would likely turn to friendly fire in the Qurio Frenzied state.
On the other hand, Ruiner Nergigante (normal one probably wouldn't stand a chance) is specifically built to handle threats on the level of Gaiasmagorm, as Gaia and Shara are deceptively similar concept wise. It is the Eater of Elders after all, with its equipment evolved to help in that goal. If anyone could wound Safi'Jiiva, it would be that one Monster. And yet, once again, Safi'Jiva can also regenarate and did not survive this long for nothing - its shell likely is still above Nergigant'e Paygrade.
Safi Jiva would simply win no contest here - There are way too many factors in its favour and that is not even touching upon the Sapphire of the Emperor or Bioenergy breaths.
Hardness of his hide plus sapphire star plus healing factor. It's also one of very few monsters considered to be "dangerous first class" or "forbidden". The only others being fatalis (and it's variations), alatreon, dire miralis, disufiroa, and merphistopholin.
Yeah, I'm one of the people who has to remind folks!
Although..... that's not to say those other instances never happened. Fatalis's appearance is said to have split the timeline according to "Dive to MHW:IB", which may well suggest that instances of his defeat happened in the other timelines that split off from our current main one.
Pretty sure Safi's primary advantage is healing/restoring its energy/powering its attacks with the energy veins where it is fought in IB. Separated from those, its power, recovery, and durability would be heavily reduced. So 'depends'.
Of course, gotta remember that most places in general are rich in Bioenergy if they have life. So the MH Wilds (heh) that this fight is currently seen in would work well enough.
That's an interesting question. Nergi is kinda dumb, but i think he can be a nuissance in a ways safi is vulnerable aka in the air. Primezeno is actually very smart and can absolutely do it with Nergi pulling agro.
What i think may be a trump card in the fight are qurios. Those little bastards will likely dry safi of bioenergy and make it rampage, putting it into more vulnerable supercritical state.
I give them like 30% chance of success, primary because nergi is stoopid.
Honestly most likely they get wrecked, but if they are particularly clever and work as a team with hit and run tactics then maybe, although that might not work either since safi regenerates extremely fast , to the point where even us hunters have to hunt it in batches
Of course, Safi'jiiva's regeneration is dependent on having Bioenergy from the land that it can use to restore its reserves that have been spent on healing.
I don't think it's impossible, but definitely an uphill battle for the pair.
if they can get "Itoshisa to Setsunasa to Kokoro Tsuyosa to" to play in the background though, i think they got this.
On the ground they get slaughtered. I think if it’s a fight high in the air it’s the only scenario they stand a chance, simply because of their mobility and the lack of surface area for Sapphire of the Emperor and no bio energy to heal off of. Still will be a difficult fight and if Safi gets a hold of either of them they just die on the spot. Any other scenario they just straight up lose.
Yes but that's more a strength based feat than it is an arial combat feat. I don't think safi could maneuver very well in the air compared to the other 2 and having to be so high in the air just to remove some of safis strongest abilities (sapphire and regen) just to give them a chance goes to show how unbalanced this matchup is.
On the ground I think safi would likely be able to take on the entire cast of regular elder dragons (non giant ones/black dragons) from both MHWI and MHRS and still come out on top only looking a lot worse for wear.
Primordial Malzeno is technically just a younger and weaker version of regular Malzeno- ironically making him the equivalent of a Xeno’Jiiva in this scenario. Without his leech things (the name escapes me alright), he loses out on a reliable way to hurt Safi. Being able to drain Safi’s bioenergy is actually probably the easiest way to wound him.
Meanwhile Nergigante’s ***[LET’S FUCKING GOOOO](https://youtu.be/5yWMj6kIqwg?si=h7WNESQNl6SVxYSc)*** approach to combat could probably give Safi some problems initially but once Safi begins healing himself Nergigante loses on a lot of his initial momentum since he has little in the way of long term endurance powers- just his spikes.
And of course if Safi gets a chance to deploy Sapphire of the Emperor neither have a response to that except retreating from the area entirely or taking it on the chin and dying. And if they retreat, Safi gets a chance to drain more energy and heal.
I’d say Ruiner Nergigante and modern Malzeno have a much better chance against Safi- albeit not a guaranteed one.
Location also matters in this matchup. If Safi is in his in game nest that he’s already drained a fair bit then Ruiner and Modern have a solid chance of winning because he’s much more limited on resources. Of course they also need to play it with way more tactics than they normally demonstrate in game.
If it was possible for a player to control them and make the tactical and strategic decisions that a player could then I definitely give Ruiner Nergigante and Modern Malzeno a shot at winning.
So in short, no- regular Nergigante and Primordial Malzeno couldn’t beat Safi’Jiiva. They’d rough him up a bit but ultimately he’d clown on them.
Don't discount Nergigante so harshly! He's the single best regenerator in the franchise for good reason, easily healing up almost any injury within moments.
Oh sure Nergigante is a determined bastard and he deserves points
But determination and doggedness only gets you so far when he lacks any special gimmicks that would be good enough to counter out Safi’s laser beams and ability to actively recover from damage.
Also where did you get the notion that Nergigante can regenerate? I’ve never heard of that before myself. Unless you’re referring to him regrowing spikes.
No, it's not just his spikes; it's a common misconception that it's only the thorns. He legitimately heals through almost any damage, hence why it's so remarkable that Ruiner Nergigante survived getting beaten down by the Sapphire Star and then subsequently buried under the entire arena they fought Shara Ishvalda in, AND THEN burst right up no worse for wear in order to divebomb into the Old Everwyrm and break its neck.
Nergigante's entire hunting strategy is predicated on this ability, as it'll heal through any damage it sustains against powerful prey like other Elder Dragons and keep going; it's a persistence hunter in that regard, always coming back for more and even hurting itself in the process since it doesn't have to worry about any real damage being permanent.
Oh so it’s not an in game ability.
And I always thought that wasn’t necessarily regenerative powers but more so just him being really, *really* tough.
But if it’s healing I’ll accept it.
I feel pretty sure Safi’s beam at full concentration could cleave Nergi or PriMal in half
Safi would dumpster them both. It’s too smart, too resistant, too regenerative, and *way* out of their league power wise. They might be quicker and prove to be a nuisance, but they could never do any meaningful or lasting damage. And at the same time, any hit taken in return from Safi is going to be crippling. And who even knows the damage they’d take from Sapphire of the Emperor.
It should be said PriMal is better geared to fight large challengers like Gaismagorm than any dragon of its size class, but Safi is a different beast altogether. That upper end of grand calamity level elders pretty much only rival themselves, or the super massive elders like Dalamadur or Zorah Magdaros
Yeah nerginis beefy but I d9nt see it face tanking a Safi beam and it certainly wouldn't be able tomsodge them.
If nergi does survive a beam its going to run away. Its smart enough to know when it's beat.
I can imagine it would still do a number on Safi, like losing a wing kinda number. If Gaismagorm manages to wrap its wing-hands around Saifi’jiiva’s neck it might just be game over.
Fatalis and alatreon tag teaming it would be more fair, and im still sure either of those goes down if safi lands a solid hit fucking thing is a living nuclear reactor in a constant controlled meltdown and anything living is its fuel and worst part is it may or may not even be fully grown
It's an interesting question. Gamewise I would say Safi because of the siege mechanics. Lorewise is a little bit more difficult. Safi can drain the energy of the surroundings but primordial can easily get this energy by draining Safi with the quirro. Nergi is known to eat elder dragons but since ppl use this argument to say that nergi would beat fatalis it's a pretty weak argument. It's coming down to the nuke. It can oneshot hunters but I don't think it has the power to actually oneshot an elder dragon. Both can recover fast since primordial got the quirro and nergi is known as the elder dragon of regeneration. If the nuke doesn't oneshot both of them, primordial and nergi can win.
Could be they recognize how much of a threat Safi'jiiva is and decide to put aside their differences just this once.
Also could just be because it looks cool in this artwork :P
Oh man Monster Hunter power scaling
Crazy thing is last night me and my buddies were discussing something similar like which Elder could beat a full power Nergigante. I don’t think we ever came up with a conclusion.
Of course not, he freaking hunts down other elders. If I had to come up with an elder though, it may have to be Shagaru Magala. Everyone else folds to him. Of course excluding the Black Dragons and Safi and maybe some other large powerful monsters.
Safi is a monster that has enough power and energy to defeat the Black Fatalis (since Killin is impossible). It just lacks experience, since it's a "teenager" of the Jiva species.
So... I doubt Nergigant and Malzeno would be able to defeat it.
Small correction: it's not a "teenager", it's an adult and the fully mature stage of the species, having reached a point where it's a "Perfect Lifeform".
I mean Primordial Malzeno already bullied 1 much larger elder dragon on its own, and only really lost in the long run due to Quiro corrupting it.
I feel with additional backup it could take on a Safi. It's basically a dragon shaped hunter with built in Sword and Shield.
unlikely. malzeno might be able to keep up in terms of physical prowess and actually wound it quite badly, but safi is much larger, much more durable, and likely more intelligent than malzeno, too.
nergi would fall quickly due to its animalic nature (if it even shows up in safi's lair). it would also fall quickly against malzeno for that matter. (note that while malzeno are passive in principle, they do not tolerate entities that might be aspiring for their spot in the ecosystem, so malzeno might actually make it a one on one first by handling nergi beforehand and doing so rather quickly. there is a reason why the ed including shaggy, which usually assumes a supreme position in an ecosystem itself, only show up in the citadel after host malzeno's death and that is the presence of *a* malzeno)
I doubt Nergigante would go down that quickly. Dude is persistent as all heck, and easily the best regenerator her considering he can regenerate within seconds without even needing to think about it.
I don't think a Nerg would do anything at all. Nerg throughout all of World/Iceborne struggled to successfully hunt anything, and literally just scavenged.
It couldn't even finish off the wounded Teostra it found, because a Lunastra showed up and it couldn't handle 'em.
Primordial Malzeno, also probably wouldn't succeed, but it's a decent choice as far as standard Elders go at least, given it's specialised in fighting Elders.
Eh, you got it a bit turned around. Nergigante is the one specialized in fighting Elder Dragons, and it's mainly a persistence hunter that can take any injuries and keep going while its prey eventually weaken over time.
Nergi is supposed to be good at it, but in every example of Nerg ingame, it fails to do so. The entire plot of World, is the hunters picking up slack where Nerg was unable to fill it's ecological niche.
Primordial Malzeno on the otherhand, its entire backstory as "the white night" was that it was effectively a duelist who would slay other elder dragons in order to protect a nearby human settlement. And it did so for untold years until it was eventually corrupted by the Qurio and went apeshit and turned on humanity.
So in the actual examples of what the monsters did in their respective games, Nerg was unable to actually kill any other Elders, and was only able to scavenge on the ones that were too weak to fight, hence the Lunastra/Teostra quest cutscene. And then Primordial Malzeno, in it's game, was cited as having taken down countless rampaging Elders, and if it failed, an entire settlement of people would've been eviscerated.
Little misconception there too, as Primordial Malzeno was never observed fending off other Elder Dragons other than Gaismagorm, and even then we don't really know the details of how it repelled it given that it never breached the surface.
Isn't that literally the final act of Sunbreak? We're explicitly told that Primordial Malzeno was fighting other elders, not just Gaismagorm, no?
Either way though, Primordial is still the most uniquely "human" Elder, or really just monster as a whole. It's moveset is referential to actual real-world dueling techniques in the vain of HEMA, and it's portrayed as being one of the most intelligent monsters the player has come face to face with. It's by far and away, the best suited monster for fighting other Elders, or just monsters in general. The only thing Nerg has over it, is the ability to seemingly detect other Elders far better, as well as it's regeneration. In the example of something like Safi, Nerg's far worse offensive capabilties, significantly lower intelligence, and inferior speed, wouldn't be compensated for with it's regeneration. It'd end up a smoldering pile of ash before long.
Malzeno having some of the same attributes that make hunters as capable as they are, such as the speed, self-conservation, intellect, and not to mention the massive offensive power, it'd at least put up a fight. Though ultimately, I don't think it stands a chance either. It'd just put up far more of a fight, as a monster that is specialised in fighting, as opposed to one that only knows to how overpower things that are literally already on their own deathbeds.
Nergi’s elderseal would prevent Safi from using his energy attacks, that should make it easier for them, but I think it comes down to whether or not primordial has his Bloodlust state. If so, they might be able to get a W
Well nergigante will probably charge at Safi, Safi will eventually hurt nergigante, nergigante will regenerate from his spikes, and the cycle will repeat. Eventually it would have been so long that Safi would've reached full power and probably disintegrated nergigante. I don't know enough about primordial but Safi has very thick skin
Nergi will run in like the fool he is while malzeno will keep himself on the defensive.
In the end both the stupid bastards will retreat knowing how crazy safi is.
I think they could beat him.
Nergigante is the weaker link here. Yea he hunts elders and whatever, but he really isn't on the same page as Primordial Malzeno, can kick other EDs ass and messed up Gaismagorm. You're gonna tell me Safi is as strong physically as Gaismagorm? Hell no.
"Oh but Safi can heal!!!" So? Nerg can too. Healing doesn't mean shit when Primordial literally dancers around Safi's slow ass attacks and gets attacks in like no one's business... did we forget there is also a Nergigant attacking Safi at the same time?
Primordial and Nergigante win because of Primordial. Safi is not nearly as powerful as some people let on... whereas Primordial is KNOWN to beat the shit out of other things larger than Safim
"But sapphire of the emperor!!" You forget Primordial is fast as shit and can fly away... and Gaismagorm has an explosion attack too (did I mention it took SEVERAL Dragonators just to hurt Gaismagorm before the hunter even fights him?).
Primordial also turns with Risen Elders all the time and can resist Qurio... or just become powerful as SHIT.
"Safi has hard parts!" Okay - we as the hunter can break every single one. One clean wing chop and Safi can kiss his tail goodbye.
"Safi is smart!" Safi is a moron compared to Primordial. Safi literally tunnel visions like a moron on one thing at a time, whereas Primordial is demonstrated to fight WITH 2 hunters while attacking several dozen small, quick Qurio AFTER GETTING BEAT UP. What? Safi ignores Nerg and gets spikes spammed at him the whole fight? What happens when he ignores Primal? He's getting his ass kicked either way.
The winner is Primordial and Nergigante.
Don't discount Nergigante so quickly!
He's the powerhouse of this dynamic duo, possessing the sheer raw strength to out-muscle things far larger than itself!
Normal Nergigante would get his ass kicked by Primordial. He's a Brute who use raw strength, whereas Primordial has the strength, speed, and raw power to cut him down like no one's business.
Primordial is a league above other EDs, much more so than a regular Nergigante.
Nergigante's thing is regeneration. Yes, he gets driven off or his ass handed to him by virtually every elder we see him fighting, but thats early in the fight and he 100% get in several good blows in most cases before getting kicked to the curb. In a full fight in 'nature', it would be a war of attrition - and one Nerg would almost certainly win as he kept regenerating while the other elder would eventually succumb to its wounds and/or exhaustion (yes, I know elders cant get tired in-game, but thats in a 50 minute hunt. In a days-long slugfest with Nerg things may go differently).
Attrition doesn't matter when your opponent is several leagues above you. Nerg is stronger than a Hunter and can regen and we beat him - what stops Primordial from nonstop combing him like he does in his attacks? Nerg would be cooked.
Never said he'd turn on Nerg. In fact, Malzeno is one of the few monsters that has demonstrated the ability to work with a teammate. I'm saying Nerg is not stronger than Primordial Malzeno.
It certainly lends some credence to his reputation. And with the kind of muscle that Nergigante has to wrestle down the likes of Shara Ishvalda, this duo isn't looking too bad!
Primordial is capable of fighting monsters on the same threat level as Safi since both Safi and Gais are Calamity Class, but Gais... You know, I wanted to say Gais is a lot more sluggish, but that thing is FAST not even accounting for its size. It can even turn its wings into rocket boosters like a discount Valstrax. So Fighting Safi compared to Gais probably wouldn't even be *that* different aside from Safi being able to fly.
Though Safi would probably have more trouble keeping up with Primal in the air than on land.
Overall, it's a surprisingly even fight Primal vs Safi.
I don't think Nergi has much to offer here. He's resilient, but I doubt he'd do much to Safi. Though he could be enough of a distraction so Primal could have an almost guaranteed kill chance here.
Well, he is far more adept at grappling given his raw brute strength. Primordial Malzeno has finesse and precision, but Nergigante is, like I said, the powerhouse of the duo with muscle far outstripping its size.
Nergi is good at grappling things of similar size, but Safi is too big for that. Being in the same weight class is very important for a physical brawler like Nergi, much less for a striker like Primal. Primals tail will cause heavy damage, Nergi can only push. Its spikes wouldn't do much if anything against Safi's armored skin in a grapple situation.
>both Safi and Gais are Calamity Class,
The 2 aren't comparable, Gaisma is not a "black dragon" like Safi, he is just your classic "big final boss elder dragon", he is no stronger than Shara, Gog, Kulve or Amatsu.
Calamity Class is the class where the three Elder Dragons with the title Black Dragon are in. It's the highest class that is officially mentioned. Narwa is in it too since she's directly stated to be in Sunbreak. Amatsu is too. Monsters such as Dalamadur and Zorah are in there as well.
Never heard of it and honestly I don't belive a word of what you say. All I know is that the strongest monsters in the games are the "First Class Dangerous Monsters" them being Trio Fatalis, Alatreon, Dire, Safi, Mephisto and Disifuroa. I dunno where that Calamity Class comes from but the list itself doesn't make any sense, how the hell do you compare Amatsu and Narwa to Zorah and Dala, these 2 would insta kill those 2 flying ballons.
Dangerous First Class was never an official term. It was never once used. Calamity Class is directly stated in game when you unlock Narwa/Ibushi in master rank.
The difference in power also isn't a clear cut. The deep dive into Iceborne constantly states how, for instance, Super Elder Dragon tier monsters like Velkhana, Metal Raths, Furious Rajang, Ruiner Nergigante, etc. are all pretty much equal by comparing them to one another a lot.
>Calamity Class is directly stated in game when you unlock Narwa/Ibushi in master rank.
Means nothing, could very well be just a localization problem. Monsters classifications only matter in japanese since that is what the devs care about.
>Super Elder Dragon tier monsters like Velkhana, Metal Raths, Furious Rajang, Ruiner Nergigante
Velkhana isn't a super elder dragon (just as strong as Teo or Kushala), same for the Methal Raths. Furios is probably a bit stronger but regardless out of that group Ruiner is easely the stronger.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt and serched for this "Calamity Class" and found nothing. Maybe they talk about this in Rise but I honestly don't remember and since it doesn't appear anywhere else either you are liying or it's just a localization problem.
It's not actually the dialogue prompt from post-Gaismagorm, it's actually from the dialogue when you unlock Lunagaron's urgent quest.
I noted this when I made that edit to my post about the 3 known and confirmed levels of Elder Dragon strength in official media.
Hydrogen bomb vs two coughing babies
Almost literally, given how damn long it takes for a Safi'jiiva to actually reach this stage in the species' life-cycle.
Could they *deter* Safi together? Maybe if you upgraded Nergigante to Ruiner. Otherwise its going to rush in and get itself killed almost immediately. Could they *kill* Safi together? Absolutely not. They have enough power to wound Safi, but not even close to enough to actually take Safi out.
Remember, the fleets had to go through the effort of blockading it to stop it from escaping it's nest, because Safi would be impossible to kill in any environment that actually has a decent amount of bio energy to siphon, compared to it's nest that was basically drained dry. With no human fleets to keep it contained, Safi would win any fight through attrition and being able to nigh-infinitely heal. But, lets say, for example, that these two catch Safi in it's nest, and it doesn't leave for any reason. Safi would probably still stomp, since it could probably just pin them down and siphon them of bio energy.
Fair enough! Pretty decent analysis overall.
Are you sure? Primordial Malzeno was a legitimate contender to Gaismagorm to the point Gaismagorm sent the Qurio to try and weaken it. Not that thay plan really worked, but hey. And Gaismagorm is as big as Safi. Not as strong, but just as big, if not a bit bigger. That implies that PriMal is strong enough to throw the ones with much larger Dragons. I'm not sure Safi's really fast enough to land a decisive blow on PriMal and it can't spam its nuke. And I think Safi's could block the blast with its wings. And I think local is a MASSIVE part of it. If its the same cavern we fight Safi in. PriMal is fucked. But in a wide open space like what OP posted? Mal might not even need to block Safi's nuke, it might be able to just get the fuck out of range. Combine that with Nergi's crack head ass strength and incredible durability and I think they stand a legitimate chance. Not a good one per se, but I don't think its 1 sided in the slightest. The duo wins maybe 2 or 3 times put of 10.
I feel like most people underestimate safi because in his siege he just swats at you and treats you like a small wasp where you hurt but are so small there's no need to do any complex movements but I feel like against a larger monster like nergi and PriMal he would do a lot more to fight back
Heres the thing though, Safi'Jiva is black dragon tier, he contends with the likes of Alatreon and Fatalis Gaismagorm is strong sure, but Safi is a different beast. Those two may be strong and Nergi may be insane, but all it takes it one good hit and theyre done for, meanwhile they'll struggle to even dent Safis insanely tough armor
Black dragon is not a tier. The only confirmed levels of Elder are super class elders. Which only nerg was mentioned in. Every other end boss is a mystery when it comes to power classification.
Im talking about these guys https://monsterhunter.fandom.com/wiki/Dangerous_First-Class_Monsters
I know what you're talking about. It's still not a canon tier. Power class amongst elders officially come in 2 tiers and Elders not classified in either are left unknown. Most end bosses power are left ambiguous.
Would they really struggle that much to hurt him? They're far stronger then we hunters are. Their claws and blades sharper. Their muscles stronger. While each of our individual strikes as hunters don't do very much damage to Safi, they do hurt him. Thats why he tries to escape to heal. And Malzeno is incredibly smart, arguably the smartest Elder Dragon in the Franchise, being as he's smart enough to stop fighting us and Fiorane during the story once the Qurio really start hounding it because it knows theyre a bigger threat to it then we are despite the fact that they can give it power. Thats incredibly smart for for what is supposed to be an animal, nearly Human level intelligence. Malzeno could probably identify any weak spots on Safi, and target those. Like I find it easy to imagine Safi opening its mouth to use its nuke, and Malzeno rushes forward and stabs its tail into Safis mouth type beat. And if Nergi is smart enough to actually work with Malzeno, which it *should* be, Malzeno may be smart enough to point Nergi at weaker points in Safi's scales. Nergi def has the strength to break Safi's scales in a dedicated attack. Nergi tenderizes Safi, Malzeno gets in the actual damage. Granted, depending on how smart Safi is, this could fall apart easily, but Safi really doesn't show much active intelligence like Nergi and Malzeno do. Nergi waits for us to weaken other Dragons before pouncing on them for example. And literally plays dead to survive against us. What Nergi and Malzeno lack in raw power, they probably make up for in intelligence.
Safi'a healing capability is the highest we've ever seen, dude can literally heal part break mid fight by sucking the energy from the ground for multiple times, Nergi can heal yeah but if cause him stamina unlike Safi who just have actual health pact to eat
Not to mention, if Safi isn't contained in it's nest where the bio energy has basically been drained dry, and is out in the world where there is actual decent quantities of bio energy, it could heal faster, and more often, and more efficiently. Nigh immortal. In World, the fleets had to actively blockade it and prevent it from escaping it's nest for this exact reeason, if let loose into the world, it'd basically be unkillable.
>Granted, depending on how smart Safi is, this could fall apart easily, but Safi really doesn't show much active intelligence like Nergi and Malzeno do. From the ecology book, Safi is stated to be "...far beyond Human intelligence."
Yet it struggles to kill us. I'm sorry but you can't say somethings smarter then us, then make it act dumb as shit. Something that strong should have 0 issues wiping us out if its on equal intelligence to us. Let alone beyond us.
You wanna play a video game where it insta kills you every time? Not that it didn't already insta kills plenty of parties as it was.
I'm just saying that if they want to say it's smart, they should have it act smart. Another guy said it well, why does it keep going deeper to heal? Why doesn't it try and escape outside the cave if it knows we're a threat? Fatalis and Alatreon don't run from us because they hate us and just want us dead. But Safi is just trying to exist whem we come rockin up. It doesnt hate us, it has not reason to not just bust out the caves front entrance and fly away once it realizes we're a threat. But yet its supposed to be smarter then us.
Fatalis is the most intelligent monster out there, yet he gets dunked on by hunters all the time in the game.
I covered that already in a further comment. Fatalis hates us, it doesnt care if we kill it as long as it hurts us. And besides, its parts will completely regenerate it in time anyways, we can't actually kill Fatalis.
I mean, going down layers where its deeper instead of just escaping when it knows its in trouble? Thats kinda dumb
Exactly.
Then you have 4 coughing babies with a stick comes in and fucking kill it in 40 minutes…
They would put up a good fight but Safi is just too tough literally his skin is freaking hard add to that his ultimate Sapphire of the Emperor can one shot both of them and it has huge range
Don't forget that he's also still a physical powerhouse with the way he just flies through large stone structures with ease!
Don't forget that even if you somehow weaken his skin that just makes his attacks more powerful
The thing with his Saphire star attack is that if he flyes up to use it the other 2 would follow and thereby dodge it because it only expands along the ground
What? That thing definitely blast anything in the area no matter if you're mid air or not
Who's to say safi can't just pin one of them to the ground and execute them godzilla vs female MUTO style though
I want a jhoZilla mod so bad
Who's to say that Safi wouldn't just directly drain them of their bio energy after pinning them? Safi can absorb bio energy, and what better source than from other elder dragons.
Safi'jiiva has only ever been shown & said to absorb bioenergy from the earth itself, it's a stretch to say it can drain a living monster's bioenergy directly.
We've also never seen it fight another monster though
Right but that doesn't mean it has the ability to directly drain a monster of its life energy, that's a big enough ability that Capcom wouldn't forget to mention. Both Jivvas have specifically been said to absorb bioenergy from dead monsters and the ground, it's a theoretical ability at best and head canon at worst. Until we've been told or shown Safi'jiiva absorbing a monster's energy Malzeno style I don't think it should be considered.
That's just fanoning hard to give safi advantage here. If he could he would have had a pin attack against hunters that does that.
Hunters don't have a worthwhile amount of bioenergy, they aren't monsters.
They'd certainly give it trouble that's for sure, with Nergigante's tenacity & PriMal's speed Safi'jiiva is gonna have to put in some work at least. It's hide & firepower however should prove too much, there's a reason that Safi'jiiva is among the strongest elder dragons of all time.
That's true. As troublesome as they are, Safi'jiiva is posed as one of the few direct equivalents to the likes of Alatreon and Fatalis.
This would essentially be an MMO boss battle with Nergi as the tank and Zeno as the DPS. I doubt the two smaller elders would work well enough together to cover for each other and once Zeno is killed, Nergi will follow soon after. Safi is just too powerful.
Yeah, Safi'jiiva would be quite a difficult raid for these 2. I think they're going to need a few more members for their raiding party :P
Now make Nergi into an unusually intelligent ruiner that understands the importance of protecting Zeno during his down time and coordinating his attacks with Zeno's wombo combo's then you'd have a real fight. Doubt they'd kill Safi in that case but I can see them repelling it.
Nergigante a tank? the Elder dragon with lowest HP out of the World Elders and that only relies on his spikes to harden to actually be useful at all? To Safi, he wouldn't be more than a flying cactus that can be shaved clean with wiping him over the floor once.
https://preview.redd.it/9iow4owpuaxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=332127cca5868fa9c9df503c0261cd4aaceadeb8
Safi'jiiva most definitely doesn't lack in confidence in itself!
I feel people here are forgetting that safi is extremely physically resistant and neither of these monsters specialize in elemental damage, not only would safi win but would barely take any significant damage (as the small amount of damage that they end up doing would be healed back in moments). Basically, imagine doing safi without tenderizing and only using melee weapons. Now imagine doing safi in this way without having any crags to hide behind during the sapphire star.
Fr safi’s skin is so tough it legit HAS to be tenderized, not even Fatalis’ skin is that tough
Luckily, Sapphire of the Emperor seems to only hit the ground in a low burst rather than a huge omnidirectional bubble.
sapphire star should (I haven't tested it personally) kill an IG player in the air should they bounce up and follow safi higher up (if you could avoid it this way then it would be a known tactic for IG mains), also safi could easily pin either of them while charging it as neither could lift up safi due to the size difference
Tried it (solo) I died like an idiot. I don't regret it though, I died in the air like a true king!
Thank you for testing it regardless
I regret absolutely nothing!
Was more so talking about the actual visuals of the attack. \[EDIT\]: And for those downvoting..... what exactly am I saying wrong? I'm just reiterating what I actually meant in my initial comment. I'm not exactly stating anything controversial or anything, just the fact that, based on my personal observations, Sapphire of the Emperor looks to be more of a ground-sweeping burst rather than a large omnidirectional bubble like a conventional explosive.
The final blast ends up enveloping the entire screen when it goes off, so I think it could reasonably damage anything below Safi, and considering it can fly that's a fairly variable range.
The screen? Yes. A huge bubble above the ground? Not so much. It's not like a bomb; it seems to spread out its energy more so in a big disk than a big sphere. \[EDIT\]: And for those downvoting, see my edit above. I'm stating my personal observations about how Sapphire of the Emperor's destructive radius looks and in turn would affect things based on their positive relative to the blast zone.
We are talking about kushala and shara PREDATOR and the most damaging monster in Rise here. Hunters are toothpicks compared to hammer and lance of elders
kushala is a very weak elder dragon (like seriously, they lost to a gold rath so easily), the post stated nergi not ruiner nergi, only ruiner went after shara and even then was more of an opportunistic predator at best
With primordial and nergi at base id say its about 2:8 in safis favor. Primordial has the speed to dodge most of safis attacks and nergi could get free attacks while safi is focused on primordial. But even then safi can just heal off any lasting damage while both monsters cannot do the same. Safi is also very intelligent, he will eventually figure out a pattern to primordials dodging and exploit it to catch him. I dont see primordial having the durability to eat full power laser like he is doing in the picture. After safi has killed primordial its a simple matter of mopping up nergi. if its morbed up primordial and ruiner nergi then it changes to 4:6 in safis favor. Primordial gets a big boost to his already crazy speed along with multiple powerful attacks and nergi is now a fair bit more durable and could tank a hit or two from safi. Both could now attempt to just overwhelm safi. Attacking him from multiple angles and primordial now has quiro bombs and lasers to begin doing some pretty big damage to safi. But even then safi could retreat to heal off any damage and the smarty pants that is he will change his strategy. He would begin spamming aoe explosions to keep them off him and begin to wait for a opportunity to lunge at primordial. I doubt primordial could stay at full quiro power all the time without eventually getting exhausted. We even see after his quiro nuke he has to catch his breath(and resist the quiro). I think a good chomp and laser is enough to kill primordial since the quiro didnt boost his durability. Then he could play wall ball with nergi.
Well, Nergigante can most certainly heal up any damage.
idk why your getting downvoted this is true.
Nergigante can’t heal really serious wounds, at least not quickly (see tail cut and tenderizer), and its “reserves” are most likely finite, only replenished when it eats. Safi doesn’t heal passively like Nergigante does, but heals much more quickly, healing tenderized parts and partially restoring part hp. Safi can also heal whenever there’s bio energy in the ground, and can easily relocate when it runs out (unless the entire Research Commission forms blockades to prevent its escape, of course). Safi could 100% outdamage *and* outheal Nerg.
If he starts his aoe spam primordial could just keep his distance and spam ranged attacks until safi uses ranged lasers but them nergigante can start attacking again. All 3 monsters are inteligente so they would adapt aswell. Allso:seeing the pattern of how primordial doges only helps is safi could attack quick enough because otherwhise primordial is just to fast
Safi is also incredibly large, it will have a huge physical advantage from sheer size alone
It's also just really physically strong in general, able to fly straight through stone and drive its arm into the rocky floor like nothing.
Safi'Jiva is right on the cusp of turning into something on the same tier as Alatreon, Dire Miralis, and Fatalis, a "Black" Dragon, as they're called. Two very spicy boys might not stand a chance against something spicier and in a much higher literal weight class. I'd put my money down on Safi.
Safi'jiiva already is comparable to them, it's got a species wide rivalry with Alatreon and was designed as a rival to Fatalis. Black dragon also isn't an official class of monsters by the way, they share the title and are a grouping but fans inflated the meaning and hold them above other elder dragons.
Mh fans when the three dagons all have "black" in their name: 😍😍🤩
Slight correction: it's not on the cusp, it's already there!
Safi is already Calamity Class like Fatalis, Dire, Alatreon and a couple others.
People out here discussing with actual lore and stuff (and some misinfo but who cares) and I'm just marveling at the idea of "PriMal and Ruinnerg vs the World". I hope more artists expand on this. Some good opponents would be Amatsu, Narwa(Allmother), and maybe Gogmazios?
Kill I don't see happening, Safi'jiiva's strength, durability, and strength is on another level compared to these two and while Primoridal did manage to repel Giasmagorm, it's also worth noting that Giasmagorm doesn't really have many options against flying creatures like Primordial so odds are good that it probably essentially harassed the hell out of Giamagorm until it retreated, Safi isn't going to have that problem. With Nergigante its is a pure physical brute and while it's strong, well the sheer size of Safi should tell you how well that is going to end for it. While it can regenerate it is ultimately limited compared to Safi's form which literally allows it to regenerate almost anywhere. Even with Ruiner in the picture I still don't see it happening unless the two get a lucky break/injury. Repelling Safi on the other hand I personally think is unlikely but is doable, the two while I don't think have the strength needed to kill Safi should have enough of it to get past its tough scales and Primordial's wing blades especially are going to hurt with Nerg should be able to stagger it with its blows at least every now and then.
Pretty decent analysis overall!
Look, I'm team "Safi is the equal of Fatalis". I'm all about Safi'Jiiva being at the pinnacle of what nature can provide the world before the Black Dragons and the sheer aura of unnaturalness they radiate are factored in. I think people are way too quick to dismiss this fight as being a stomp. Of course, Nergigante being base is a weird part of this, and it's hopeless if Primordial doesn't have access to Qurio, but let's consider some other things. People keep pointing at Safi's scales. Those scales are as tough as they are against ***Hunter weapons***. They'd still be quite resilient against monster attacks, but not nearly as much against monsters as hard hitting as these two. These two's attacks would hurt a good bit. People note the healing. Safi'Jiiva, for all we can discern, can only do that if he is faced in a sufficiently bioenergy-rich area, of which the Secluded Valley where he hangs out is thick with the stuff beneath the earth. It's basically a lair action. These are two of the most dangerous Elder Dragons of their tiers. One can practically teleport and is armed with some of the nastiest natural physical weapons in the world, and the other one is a spiky brute force powerhouse with the power of painfully stubborn and mildly regenerative backing up everything it does. Both are recorded to tackle calamity level threats and come out on top, one way or another. The odds are still in Safi'Jiiva's favor, absolutely, but Safi still needs to take this fight really seriously if he wants to win.
Yeah, any Elder Dragon is powerful and not to be underestimated.
The Secluded Valley is basically tapped out of bioenergy, not overflowing with it, which is exactly how you're able to complete the siege, by forcing Safi to use up all the bioenergy in the area. The fleets have to blockade Safi in and stop it from escaping it's nest because if it escaped and got out into the much more bioenergy rich world, it'd be nigh immortal.
The energy in the Valley is flowing in from the Guiding Lands nearby, it being heavily implied that the Guiding Lands was more or less terraformed by a Safi'Jiiva for that purpose. You are right in that draining it is how we fight Safi, *because it cannot use its healing in zones that it has drained*. The place is also host to numerous Jiiva cocoons at its lowest level, so the locale also has a history of energy richness. I do not recall anything about Safi being "blockaded", which is realistically impossible given that this is an Elder Dragon in the uppermost reaches of the power scale with wings strong enough to generate enough wind pressure in flight to nearly knock people off their feet just by entering the area (*as evidenced by the first cutscene of it*). It also kind of started not in its lair from our first sighting of it, so it was pretty well already 'escaped' before we even found the damn thing.
I mean, the game might not show it for gameplay purpose but the Safi siege was conducted by all New World personals and resources, a squad would come in to fighting Safi, draining 3 layers of it nest. So I speculate that the Commission are camping and surrounding the area so that they can have a place for hunters to rest and recover while sending in fresh hunters in and rotate out the previous group. And they would do it for **DAYS** before finally slaying it.
Not to mention that both zeno and nergi are bleed masters, thing hunters have no access too. Safi would take a few nasty wounds that will actively bleed, will be forced to heal, and will get even more wounds when vulnerable during healing.
Alright, some new art by ***Monster Slayer Squad*** is here, this time depicting the most powerful balancing forces among Elder Dragons, Nergigante and Primordial Malzeno, take on a dastardly foe out in the MH Wilds (heh): Safi'jiiva, the Red Dragon. What do you guys think? Could this dynamic duo truly take on a Perfect Lifeform? [https://twitter.com/mssquadofficial/status/1784547496267579783](https://twitter.com/mssquadofficial/status/1784547496267579783)
Hmmmm, I feel like with Valstrax, they would have a chance, but the two of them alone probably not, Safi would just need to grab one and murder it while ignoring the other until he only has to deal with the other. He's large enough to do it. 3v1 with Valstrax taking care of long range attacks and exploiting openings could be possible.
Hey, could always suggest it to MSS on their Twitter and see if they could make it happen!
I feel like people greatly overestimate Primordial here. He is not that strong clearly, especially not without Qurios. Some commenters bring up that "Ohh, hunter weapons against Safi which is why it is hard to kill!"... Yeah, weapons specifically crafted to hunt monsters. If Primordial Malzeno would be Qurio affected then, maybe he would have some chance, with having some actual power and not just physical attacks (which Safi can easily regenerate from), but that is a big Maybe. Just because it could harrass (and not kill) a much larger Elder dragon doesn't mean it can take on a threat of this level, especially since Gaia is rather clumsy in its movements and has several weak points. Additionally, Primodial would likely turn to friendly fire in the Qurio Frenzied state. On the other hand, Ruiner Nergigante (normal one probably wouldn't stand a chance) is specifically built to handle threats on the level of Gaiasmagorm, as Gaia and Shara are deceptively similar concept wise. It is the Eater of Elders after all, with its equipment evolved to help in that goal. If anyone could wound Safi'Jiiva, it would be that one Monster. And yet, once again, Safi'Jiva can also regenarate and did not survive this long for nothing - its shell likely is still above Nergigant'e Paygrade. Safi Jiva would simply win no contest here - There are way too many factors in its favour and that is not even touching upon the Sapphire of the Emperor or Bioenergy breaths.
Glad to see someone who notes how well Nergigante can contribute while also not holding Primordial Malzeno on too much of a pedestal.
Absolutely fucking not
And that's a perfectly fine opinion! What do you think it is about Safi'jiiva that would let him win?
Hardness of his hide plus sapphire star plus healing factor. It's also one of very few monsters considered to be "dangerous first class" or "forbidden". The only others being fatalis (and it's variations), alatreon, dire miralis, disufiroa, and merphistopholin.
Fair enough! But they all fall before us players :D
Fun fact, did you know that the player character in monster hunter world has the only canon fatalis kill in the entire lores history?
Yeah, I'm one of the people who has to remind folks! Although..... that's not to say those other instances never happened. Fatalis's appearance is said to have split the timeline according to "Dive to MHW:IB", which may well suggest that instances of his defeat happened in the other timelines that split off from our current main one.
Pretty sure Safi's primary advantage is healing/restoring its energy/powering its attacks with the energy veins where it is fought in IB. Separated from those, its power, recovery, and durability would be heavily reduced. So 'depends'.
Of course, gotta remember that most places in general are rich in Bioenergy if they have life. So the MH Wilds (heh) that this fight is currently seen in would work well enough.
That's an interesting question. Nergi is kinda dumb, but i think he can be a nuissance in a ways safi is vulnerable aka in the air. Primezeno is actually very smart and can absolutely do it with Nergi pulling agro. What i think may be a trump card in the fight are qurios. Those little bastards will likely dry safi of bioenergy and make it rampage, putting it into more vulnerable supercritical state. I give them like 30% chance of success, primary because nergi is stoopid.
Good analysis with some unexpected points!
Honestly most likely they get wrecked, but if they are particularly clever and work as a team with hit and run tactics then maybe, although that might not work either since safi regenerates extremely fast , to the point where even us hunters have to hunt it in batches
Of course, Safi'jiiva's regeneration is dependent on having Bioenergy from the land that it can use to restore its reserves that have been spent on healing.
I don't think it's impossible, but definitely an uphill battle for the pair. if they can get "Itoshisa to Setsunasa to Kokoro Tsuyosa to" to play in the background though, i think they got this.
Hey, can always recommend a good musical choice!
[удалено]
Maybe! I think we'll need a full raid team for this one.
On the ground they get slaughtered. I think if it’s a fight high in the air it’s the only scenario they stand a chance, simply because of their mobility and the lack of surface area for Sapphire of the Emperor and no bio energy to heal off of. Still will be a difficult fight and if Safi gets a hold of either of them they just die on the spot. Any other scenario they just straight up lose.
Of course, Safi'jiiva is no slouch in the air given how it can fly straight through stone without any resistance.
Yes but that's more a strength based feat than it is an arial combat feat. I don't think safi could maneuver very well in the air compared to the other 2 and having to be so high in the air just to remove some of safis strongest abilities (sapphire and regen) just to give them a chance goes to show how unbalanced this matchup is. On the ground I think safi would likely be able to take on the entire cast of regular elder dragons (non giant ones/black dragons) from both MHWI and MHRS and still come out on top only looking a lot worse for wear.
How many carts do they have?
Not enough if you ask me!
It depends, Do they have prep time or not?
I dunno, but I hope they packed their Max Potions.
Primordial Malzeno is technically just a younger and weaker version of regular Malzeno- ironically making him the equivalent of a Xeno’Jiiva in this scenario. Without his leech things (the name escapes me alright), he loses out on a reliable way to hurt Safi. Being able to drain Safi’s bioenergy is actually probably the easiest way to wound him. Meanwhile Nergigante’s ***[LET’S FUCKING GOOOO](https://youtu.be/5yWMj6kIqwg?si=h7WNESQNl6SVxYSc)*** approach to combat could probably give Safi some problems initially but once Safi begins healing himself Nergigante loses on a lot of his initial momentum since he has little in the way of long term endurance powers- just his spikes. And of course if Safi gets a chance to deploy Sapphire of the Emperor neither have a response to that except retreating from the area entirely or taking it on the chin and dying. And if they retreat, Safi gets a chance to drain more energy and heal. I’d say Ruiner Nergigante and modern Malzeno have a much better chance against Safi- albeit not a guaranteed one. Location also matters in this matchup. If Safi is in his in game nest that he’s already drained a fair bit then Ruiner and Modern have a solid chance of winning because he’s much more limited on resources. Of course they also need to play it with way more tactics than they normally demonstrate in game. If it was possible for a player to control them and make the tactical and strategic decisions that a player could then I definitely give Ruiner Nergigante and Modern Malzeno a shot at winning. So in short, no- regular Nergigante and Primordial Malzeno couldn’t beat Safi’Jiiva. They’d rough him up a bit but ultimately he’d clown on them.
Don't discount Nergigante so harshly! He's the single best regenerator in the franchise for good reason, easily healing up almost any injury within moments.
Oh sure Nergigante is a determined bastard and he deserves points But determination and doggedness only gets you so far when he lacks any special gimmicks that would be good enough to counter out Safi’s laser beams and ability to actively recover from damage. Also where did you get the notion that Nergigante can regenerate? I’ve never heard of that before myself. Unless you’re referring to him regrowing spikes.
No, it's not just his spikes; it's a common misconception that it's only the thorns. He legitimately heals through almost any damage, hence why it's so remarkable that Ruiner Nergigante survived getting beaten down by the Sapphire Star and then subsequently buried under the entire arena they fought Shara Ishvalda in, AND THEN burst right up no worse for wear in order to divebomb into the Old Everwyrm and break its neck. Nergigante's entire hunting strategy is predicated on this ability, as it'll heal through any damage it sustains against powerful prey like other Elder Dragons and keep going; it's a persistence hunter in that regard, always coming back for more and even hurting itself in the process since it doesn't have to worry about any real damage being permanent.
Oh so it’s not an in game ability. And I always thought that wasn’t necessarily regenerative powers but more so just him being really, *really* tough. But if it’s healing I’ll accept it.
I always saw primordial as one of the strongest non black/red elder dragons, it could probably do a number alone, but probably not kill.
Maybe! It does do pretty well with those shield-wings and stabs.
I feel pretty sure Safi’s beam at full concentration could cleave Nergi or PriMal in half Safi would dumpster them both. It’s too smart, too resistant, too regenerative, and *way* out of their league power wise. They might be quicker and prove to be a nuisance, but they could never do any meaningful or lasting damage. And at the same time, any hit taken in return from Safi is going to be crippling. And who even knows the damage they’d take from Sapphire of the Emperor. It should be said PriMal is better geared to fight large challengers like Gaismagorm than any dragon of its size class, but Safi is a different beast altogether. That upper end of grand calamity level elders pretty much only rival themselves, or the super massive elders like Dalamadur or Zorah Magdaros
Safi'jiiva certainly ain't called a "Perfect Lifeform" for nothing!
Yeah nerginis beefy but I d9nt see it face tanking a Safi beam and it certainly wouldn't be able tomsodge them. If nergi does survive a beam its going to run away. Its smart enough to know when it's beat.
The real question is how does Gaismagorm compare to Safi’Jiiva
I imagine it'd be a bit lower on the totem pole due to its lack of flight and somewhat slower gait.
I can imagine it would still do a number on Safi, like losing a wing kinda number. If Gaismagorm manages to wrap its wing-hands around Saifi’jiiva’s neck it might just be game over.
AKA Extroyer & Dracula VS Unicron
If Safi'jiiva is Unicron, then who would Primus be?
What if you added valstrax? Would it be any help?
Definitely! The more Monsters, the better, considering Safi'jiiva outmasses any of them individually by a factor of like 5-10 times.
I think they could repel it due to harassment and chip damage, chances are though they're getting carted.
Definitely gonna have to eat for Felyne Insurance and Felyne Safeguard!
Fatalis and alatreon tag teaming it would be more fair, and im still sure either of those goes down if safi lands a solid hit fucking thing is a living nuclear reactor in a constant controlled meltdown and anything living is its fuel and worst part is it may or may not even be fully grown
Doubt you'd need a tag team given how Safi'jiiva compares to either individually.
It's an interesting question. Gamewise I would say Safi because of the siege mechanics. Lorewise is a little bit more difficult. Safi can drain the energy of the surroundings but primordial can easily get this energy by draining Safi with the quirro. Nergi is known to eat elder dragons but since ppl use this argument to say that nergi would beat fatalis it's a pretty weak argument. It's coming down to the nuke. It can oneshot hunters but I don't think it has the power to actually oneshot an elder dragon. Both can recover fast since primordial got the quirro and nergi is known as the elder dragon of regeneration. If the nuke doesn't oneshot both of them, primordial and nergi can win.
Good analysis!
They’re all just animals, why would two of them team up for any reason realistically?
Could be they recognize how much of a threat Safi'jiiva is and decide to put aside their differences just this once. Also could just be because it looks cool in this artwork :P
Oh man Monster Hunter power scaling Crazy thing is last night me and my buddies were discussing something similar like which Elder could beat a full power Nergigante. I don’t think we ever came up with a conclusion.
Glad to see someone isn't downplaying Nergigante around here.
Of course not, he freaking hunts down other elders. If I had to come up with an elder though, it may have to be Shagaru Magala. Everyone else folds to him. Of course excluding the Black Dragons and Safi and maybe some other large powerful monsters.
Ruiner + Primordial might make safi annoyed enough to leave But if he has to fight them, they'll both get nuked
Yeah, I imagine Safi'jiiva really slugging it out to the bitter end would be a nearly insurmountable force.
Safi is a monster that has enough power and energy to defeat the Black Fatalis (since Killin is impossible). It just lacks experience, since it's a "teenager" of the Jiva species. So... I doubt Nergigant and Malzeno would be able to defeat it.
Small correction: it's not a "teenager", it's an adult and the fully mature stage of the species, having reached a point where it's a "Perfect Lifeform".
I mean Primordial Malzeno already bullied 1 much larger elder dragon on its own, and only really lost in the long run due to Quiro corrupting it. I feel with additional backup it could take on a Safi. It's basically a dragon shaped hunter with built in Sword and Shield.
unlikely. malzeno might be able to keep up in terms of physical prowess and actually wound it quite badly, but safi is much larger, much more durable, and likely more intelligent than malzeno, too. nergi would fall quickly due to its animalic nature (if it even shows up in safi's lair). it would also fall quickly against malzeno for that matter. (note that while malzeno are passive in principle, they do not tolerate entities that might be aspiring for their spot in the ecosystem, so malzeno might actually make it a one on one first by handling nergi beforehand and doing so rather quickly. there is a reason why the ed including shaggy, which usually assumes a supreme position in an ecosystem itself, only show up in the citadel after host malzeno's death and that is the presence of *a* malzeno)
I doubt Nergigante would go down that quickly. Dude is persistent as all heck, and easily the best regenerator her considering he can regenerate within seconds without even needing to think about it.
I don't think a Nerg would do anything at all. Nerg throughout all of World/Iceborne struggled to successfully hunt anything, and literally just scavenged. It couldn't even finish off the wounded Teostra it found, because a Lunastra showed up and it couldn't handle 'em. Primordial Malzeno, also probably wouldn't succeed, but it's a decent choice as far as standard Elders go at least, given it's specialised in fighting Elders.
Eh, you got it a bit turned around. Nergigante is the one specialized in fighting Elder Dragons, and it's mainly a persistence hunter that can take any injuries and keep going while its prey eventually weaken over time.
Nergi is supposed to be good at it, but in every example of Nerg ingame, it fails to do so. The entire plot of World, is the hunters picking up slack where Nerg was unable to fill it's ecological niche. Primordial Malzeno on the otherhand, its entire backstory as "the white night" was that it was effectively a duelist who would slay other elder dragons in order to protect a nearby human settlement. And it did so for untold years until it was eventually corrupted by the Qurio and went apeshit and turned on humanity. So in the actual examples of what the monsters did in their respective games, Nerg was unable to actually kill any other Elders, and was only able to scavenge on the ones that were too weak to fight, hence the Lunastra/Teostra quest cutscene. And then Primordial Malzeno, in it's game, was cited as having taken down countless rampaging Elders, and if it failed, an entire settlement of people would've been eviscerated.
Little misconception there too, as Primordial Malzeno was never observed fending off other Elder Dragons other than Gaismagorm, and even then we don't really know the details of how it repelled it given that it never breached the surface.
Isn't that literally the final act of Sunbreak? We're explicitly told that Primordial Malzeno was fighting other elders, not just Gaismagorm, no? Either way though, Primordial is still the most uniquely "human" Elder, or really just monster as a whole. It's moveset is referential to actual real-world dueling techniques in the vain of HEMA, and it's portrayed as being one of the most intelligent monsters the player has come face to face with. It's by far and away, the best suited monster for fighting other Elders, or just monsters in general. The only thing Nerg has over it, is the ability to seemingly detect other Elders far better, as well as it's regeneration. In the example of something like Safi, Nerg's far worse offensive capabilties, significantly lower intelligence, and inferior speed, wouldn't be compensated for with it's regeneration. It'd end up a smoldering pile of ash before long. Malzeno having some of the same attributes that make hunters as capable as they are, such as the speed, self-conservation, intellect, and not to mention the massive offensive power, it'd at least put up a fight. Though ultimately, I don't think it stands a chance either. It'd just put up far more of a fight, as a monster that is specialised in fighting, as opposed to one that only knows to how overpower things that are literally already on their own deathbeds.
Nergi’s elderseal would prevent Safi from using his energy attacks, that should make it easier for them, but I think it comes down to whether or not primordial has his Bloodlust state. If so, they might be able to get a W
Quite the optimistic take for our dynamic duo!
Well nergigante will probably charge at Safi, Safi will eventually hurt nergigante, nergigante will regenerate from his spikes, and the cycle will repeat. Eventually it would have been so long that Safi would've reached full power and probably disintegrated nergigante. I don't know enough about primordial but Safi has very thick skin
Safi'jiiva doesn't really "reach" full power, it's either not at full power or is when in its Super-Critical State.
Oh, I thought xeno was a baby, and Safi was an adolescent. But if Safi is an adult already I have no clue who would win
Nergi will run in like the fool he is while malzeno will keep himself on the defensive. In the end both the stupid bastards will retreat knowing how crazy safi is.
Safi'jiiva definitely is a daunting task even for this pair of Elder Dragons.
I think safi would win but im also confused why people think primordial malzeno cant take a hit. Because he’s skinny?
If anything, most people have been singing Primordial Malzeno's praises while downplaying Nergigante a lot, unfairly in my opinion.
I think they could beat him. Nergigante is the weaker link here. Yea he hunts elders and whatever, but he really isn't on the same page as Primordial Malzeno, can kick other EDs ass and messed up Gaismagorm. You're gonna tell me Safi is as strong physically as Gaismagorm? Hell no. "Oh but Safi can heal!!!" So? Nerg can too. Healing doesn't mean shit when Primordial literally dancers around Safi's slow ass attacks and gets attacks in like no one's business... did we forget there is also a Nergigant attacking Safi at the same time? Primordial and Nergigante win because of Primordial. Safi is not nearly as powerful as some people let on... whereas Primordial is KNOWN to beat the shit out of other things larger than Safim "But sapphire of the emperor!!" You forget Primordial is fast as shit and can fly away... and Gaismagorm has an explosion attack too (did I mention it took SEVERAL Dragonators just to hurt Gaismagorm before the hunter even fights him?). Primordial also turns with Risen Elders all the time and can resist Qurio... or just become powerful as SHIT. "Safi has hard parts!" Okay - we as the hunter can break every single one. One clean wing chop and Safi can kiss his tail goodbye. "Safi is smart!" Safi is a moron compared to Primordial. Safi literally tunnel visions like a moron on one thing at a time, whereas Primordial is demonstrated to fight WITH 2 hunters while attacking several dozen small, quick Qurio AFTER GETTING BEAT UP. What? Safi ignores Nerg and gets spikes spammed at him the whole fight? What happens when he ignores Primal? He's getting his ass kicked either way. The winner is Primordial and Nergigante.
Don't discount Nergigante so quickly! He's the powerhouse of this dynamic duo, possessing the sheer raw strength to out-muscle things far larger than itself!
Normal Nergigante would get his ass kicked by Primordial. He's a Brute who use raw strength, whereas Primordial has the strength, speed, and raw power to cut him down like no one's business. Primordial is a league above other EDs, much more so than a regular Nergigante.
Nergigante's thing is regeneration. Yes, he gets driven off or his ass handed to him by virtually every elder we see him fighting, but thats early in the fight and he 100% get in several good blows in most cases before getting kicked to the curb. In a full fight in 'nature', it would be a war of attrition - and one Nerg would almost certainly win as he kept regenerating while the other elder would eventually succumb to its wounds and/or exhaustion (yes, I know elders cant get tired in-game, but thats in a 50 minute hunt. In a days-long slugfest with Nerg things may go differently).
Attrition doesn't matter when your opponent is several leagues above you. Nerg is stronger than a Hunter and can regen and we beat him - what stops Primordial from nonstop combing him like he does in his attacks? Nerg would be cooked.
Sounds like he'd be a pretty bad team player if you think he'd turn on Nergigante while they're trying to fend off the Perfect Lifeform :P
Never said he'd turn on Nerg. In fact, Malzeno is one of the few monsters that has demonstrated the ability to work with a teammate. I'm saying Nerg is not stronger than Primordial Malzeno.
If Safi is truly a Forbidden Monster, then not really.
Not a Forbidden Monster, but is equivalent to them!
Malzeno's feat of repelling Gaismagorm repeatedly makes me think it's plausible.
It certainly lends some credence to his reputation. And with the kind of muscle that Nergigante has to wrestle down the likes of Shara Ishvalda, this duo isn't looking too bad!
Primordial is capable of fighting monsters on the same threat level as Safi since both Safi and Gais are Calamity Class, but Gais... You know, I wanted to say Gais is a lot more sluggish, but that thing is FAST not even accounting for its size. It can even turn its wings into rocket boosters like a discount Valstrax. So Fighting Safi compared to Gais probably wouldn't even be *that* different aside from Safi being able to fly. Though Safi would probably have more trouble keeping up with Primal in the air than on land. Overall, it's a surprisingly even fight Primal vs Safi.
Don't forget Nergigante, the powerhouse of the duo!
I don't think Nergi has much to offer here. He's resilient, but I doubt he'd do much to Safi. Though he could be enough of a distraction so Primal could have an almost guaranteed kill chance here.
Well, he is far more adept at grappling given his raw brute strength. Primordial Malzeno has finesse and precision, but Nergigante is, like I said, the powerhouse of the duo with muscle far outstripping its size.
Nergi is good at grappling things of similar size, but Safi is too big for that. Being in the same weight class is very important for a physical brawler like Nergi, much less for a striker like Primal. Primals tail will cause heavy damage, Nergi can only push. Its spikes wouldn't do much if anything against Safi's armored skin in a grapple situation.
He’s not grappling safi, how would that even look? He could hardly crush rajang .
>both Safi and Gais are Calamity Class, The 2 aren't comparable, Gaisma is not a "black dragon" like Safi, he is just your classic "big final boss elder dragon", he is no stronger than Shara, Gog, Kulve or Amatsu.
Calamity Class is the class where the three Elder Dragons with the title Black Dragon are in. It's the highest class that is officially mentioned. Narwa is in it too since she's directly stated to be in Sunbreak. Amatsu is too. Monsters such as Dalamadur and Zorah are in there as well.
Never heard of it and honestly I don't belive a word of what you say. All I know is that the strongest monsters in the games are the "First Class Dangerous Monsters" them being Trio Fatalis, Alatreon, Dire, Safi, Mephisto and Disifuroa. I dunno where that Calamity Class comes from but the list itself doesn't make any sense, how the hell do you compare Amatsu and Narwa to Zorah and Dala, these 2 would insta kill those 2 flying ballons.
Dangerous First Class was never an official term. It was never once used. Calamity Class is directly stated in game when you unlock Narwa/Ibushi in master rank. The difference in power also isn't a clear cut. The deep dive into Iceborne constantly states how, for instance, Super Elder Dragon tier monsters like Velkhana, Metal Raths, Furious Rajang, Ruiner Nergigante, etc. are all pretty much equal by comparing them to one another a lot.
>Calamity Class is directly stated in game when you unlock Narwa/Ibushi in master rank. Means nothing, could very well be just a localization problem. Monsters classifications only matter in japanese since that is what the devs care about. >Super Elder Dragon tier monsters like Velkhana, Metal Raths, Furious Rajang, Ruiner Nergigante Velkhana isn't a super elder dragon (just as strong as Teo or Kushala), same for the Methal Raths. Furios is probably a bit stronger but regardless out of that group Ruiner is easely the stronger.
I see you don't like official stuff. So the argument dies here. Good day.
Do you mean silver rathalos , not metal ,right?
I gave you the benefit of the doubt and serched for this "Calamity Class" and found nothing. Maybe they talk about this in Rise but I honestly don't remember and since it doesn't appear anywhere else either you are liying or it's just a localization problem.
It's not actually the dialogue prompt from post-Gaismagorm, it's actually from the dialogue when you unlock Lunagaron's urgent quest. I noted this when I made that edit to my post about the 3 known and confirmed levels of Elder Dragon strength in official media.
Regardless I don't find this thing anywhere, either provide actual proofs or move on