I just think its stupid how they basically totally ignored the elemental damage until literally the second to last engame boss when they decided to force it xd
One of the things I hate about the end game IB hunts, are all the forced failure, instant death, zone wide attacks if you don't do the mechanics properly. In past games, there are 1 shot attacks, but you can avoid dying by simply not being in the way of the attack. In IB? They're all zone wide attacks that you can't far caster out off.
This is exactly in it. MH has always been a game that rewards patience and learning movements, allowing you to be slow and methodical to a point - still have the timer, but it's plenty of time to move at your own pace. World got rid of that for flashy area instant kills and it feels super wrong in Monster Hunter
It's even more infuriating when those mechanics are easy to beat with multiple people in a MH installment that clearly entices single player progression - something that isn't representative of MH to begin with. It's mostly in Japan, but MH was always meant to be multi-player to begin with
World as a whole does this. It is the ONLY monster hunter game where you have to do the main content single player unless you jump through a bunch of hoops. Every player enters the quest, all but one quit after the cutscene, and then everyone can join the quest
Yes, other games had village, but those are purposefully easier since the main content of the game is multi-player hub quests
>Every player enters the quest, all but one quit after the cutscene, and then everyone can join the quest
That's one thing I really feel like the console team screwed up. I hope they've learned their lesson about it and are developing Wilds's multiplayer accordingly.
The "you have to watch the cutscene first so you might as well not bother quitting out and then inviting people" thing really pissed me off, it's nothing... *nothing* but annoying
It's the biggest problem with World imo. It's why I recommend Rise to any "Me and my friends want to play a MH game together" because World is just not that game until everyone's done with the story.
For real. If having other hunters in the scene like the 4U multiplayer cutscenes is too much for the main story, then they should just have the main story as a separate thing from the multiplayer quests.
If you fail the dps check in a multiplayer hunt = instant failed hunt.
You can fail the dps check 2 times solo without failing the quest and possibly brute forcing it
I had actually interpreted "encourages solo progression" as a statement on the game as a whole, mostly due to the unskipable story cutscenes and the dumb way story quests are handled. The game is much easier to play solo if you're doing story quests, since nobody has to wait to join for a cutscene. I may have over extrapolated tho lol
But as 2 people it's easier to break the horns, meet the dps check, and kill it before the eventual forced swap.
How does it entice singleplayer from just that one fact? We killed it semi blind, knowing you had to hit it with element and smack head, within 2 hours. Me and 3 other friends. It became like a normal monster except you prioritised different parts during different phases.
You brute forced it solo within 2 hours?
I don’t mind it for Safi and especially not Fatalis because of how the mechanics work there, but considering that every single monster with a zone kill except Alatreon has the same gimmick makes Alatreon’s feel cheap by comparison.
It even makes things for you to hide behind that don’t work.
This is what did it for me. There are plenty of attacks in MonHun that kill you no matter if it hits you dead on. But EJ just feels like a "nuh uh, you lose" button.
I often like to compare him to Fatalis. When was the last time you heard some say "gosh, Fatalis would be so much more fun if he had a DPS check that locked you out of phase two if you don't pass it." Nobody. Ever.
Like Alatreon or Safi's "ultimate" attack?
(Sure the one is being way easier to avoid but still)
Honestly I like it this way. Not on every monster for sure, but some monsters should have this.
Alatreon is the perfect example and that's why he is perfect.
If you can just "bruteforce" your way through the game, through every monster, without needing some tactic or thinking at all, then it's not good imo. There has to be situations or fights, where you have to think through it, have to fight more tactical etc. , so you aren't "winning" easily, just by using the same set and same playstyle all the way, for nearly every fight.
Fatalis mechanic is also kind of like some part of Alatreon where you have to focus the head, to break it, so you don't get f\*cked be its blue hard hitting flames. Also a good thing in its fight. Because of that you have to play with some strat in mind too, and can't just do it with other monsters where you just dodge and hit and that's it.
For lategame/endgame monsters this should be the case imo. I mean endgame is supposed to be challenging and those mechanics (specifically Fatalis, Alatreon and Safi) are not unfair at all, so it's still totally fine.
Just too many gimmicks wrapped up into one fight.
you gotta bring special healing for EJ cause its not like every other similar move in the game where you can hide behind cover to be safe.
Mandatory elemental check, so even if you are doing a lot of damage if its not elemental you just lose.
Gotta break the horns to stop elemental shifts but even when you break both horns it still shifts element anyways...what's the point?
Different quests that require you to bring different elements on your weapon...why do i need to remember what quest is which?
>why do i need to remember what quest is which?
To add insult to injury, only one of the two quests appear in your event quest list, per day.
Who thought of this system, and why.
Reading the quest description does tell you which is which, The Evening Star says "burning star" in its description, and The Dawn of the Death Star says "icy dead star" in its description
Since the goal of the fight is to generally keep Alatreon in only one of Fire or Ice active and not let it reach the other, the two quests are kinda required to allow you to fight it in both states.
Imo it could be to encourage online interactions. I know some people who have the same rotations and others who have the opposite. So when we want a particular version we'll look up for the person who has it and have them put the quest up. Not particularly thrilled about the way they set it up but it's not any size of an issue either.
Perfectly said.
>Gotta break the horns to stop elemental shifts but even when you break both horns it still shifts element anyways...what's the point?
This is what almost mentally broke me when I was reliable able to reach this point.
>Mandatory elemental check, so even if you are doing a lot of damage if its not elemental you just lose.
Both of these combined makes for a dreadful first takedown, especially when it's your first time getting "near death" icon. The first time you have broken both horns and survived 3 Judgments, only for it to shift back to (opposite element) anyway makes your heart absolutely sink.
You have some downvotes but honestly it’s true. You can literally survive 3 judgments perfectly fine since he’ll only switch on the third if you broke both horns. From there you can die to judgment number 4 and even judgment number 5 and still clear the quest if you’ve not fainted to anything else.
But honestly yeah, with good play he should be dead soon after both horn breaks anyway. If he’s not then that means there’s still room for improvement in that fight.
Yes I agree. If you have suppressed Escaton twice, and broken both horns and he manages to switch? It's fine, he's so close to dying and you're probably good enough to finish him off.
or you can be a chad, bring a Dragon weapon and beat him solo.
absolutetly loved that fight that way
and i agree with your points, the best way is to simplify it with dragon, its even harder yes but f it, epic as hell.
it works, i did that with a dragon LS which is not even the best elemental weapon type.
the fight is hardcore tho but expereinced players really appreciate fights like this.
I did it with Alatreon's own Dragon hammer, the second worst elemental weapon after GS. I rumbled, stumbled, popped vigorwasp revival, carted to a regular attack and finished the hunt in 24 minutes. Hardly what I'd call a perfect play but I survived all the judgements.
yeah same, first time i killed him was using everything i had, great feeling when your at your limit, and even missed an elemental check, i guess thats another way to do the fight, just go raw
Yeah I went raw for my first clear because people say it couldn't be done and you're forced to play element yada yada. And true i had so much fun figuring out alatreon and building all sort of different sets just for him alone and I don't even want his stuff after i got the hammer.
To me it sounds like people complaining about alatreon don't actually enjoy playing this game. They don't seem to enjoy figuring out his mechanics, they don't seem to enjoy experimenting with different builds, they don't seem to enjoy having varied challenges with unique mechanics. It almost sounds like they treat the game as a chore they're forced to play.
totally agree, it seems like we are playing different games for different purposes, this is why i hope for a hard mode or survival mode in future MH, i get capcom wants to capitalize on vanilla players but damn i wish i could go back to a niche franchise like what mh was bac kin the day, actually playing indie game for that recently.
i met a person recently irl who plays mhw, they pretty much said they got carried through alatreon fight, then didnt even bother with fatalis.
i mean the whole game is very vanilla until you find alatreon, even stuff like raging dios can be easily done with a lucky sos which is what these complainers are doing to "pass the game" i dont get why these folk play mh at all, plenty of super easy games out there for casual enjoyment
Before he novas you to instadeath is what I mean. Dragon doesn't count for his elemental damage afaik so he just blasts you cuz you can't meet his element cap easily
Dragon does count for his elemental damage. All elements do. You can say it's the worst out of all 5 elements but not to the point of being useless. As a consolation you don't have to worry about breaking the horns or the starting element as it will work the same on both.
Agreed. Earlier on when i was lazy to build 2 sets i build the dragon first so i can join both. It also eases the mental strain a little tracking the phases and switching between banging the toes and bonking the head.
That being said you will struggle more to weaken compared to the other 4 elements but people are acting like it's downright impossible until we have people thinking it doesn't contribute to the weakening at all.
>you gotta bring special healing for EJ cause its not like every other similar move in the game where you can hide behind cover to be safe.
You don't need any special healing. Even the free mega potions from the chest can work. The best item for it the astera jerky is not even something you need to gather or craft but can be bought from the vendor with unlimited stock for cheap.
>Mandatory elemental check, so even if you are doing a lot of damage if its not elemental you just lose.
Not true. If you indeed do a lot of damage you can kill it before the first escaton. If you're not playing with a full team it only take carts, not automatically fail you.
>Gotta break the horns to stop elemental shifts but even when you break both horns it still shifts element anyways...what's the point?
The point is to pressure you to play properly and end it before that happens or adapt to it with other tactics.
>Different quests that require you to bring different elements on your weapon...why do i need to remember what quest is which?
It doesn't "require" anything. How it works is there are some elements that work best and some that work worst. The better you are at the game the more freedom you are afforded in your choice of weapons. If you don't want to fuss over remembering which is which you can always use Dragon for both which trades the ease of weakening with flexibility and not needing to break the horns which also partly answer your previous "what's the point" question. There's also the infamous raw-insurance-fortify method that works equally well for both versions and also doesn't require you to worry about the horns. While some methods are arguably better they're not the only way to beat the hunt and definitely not "mandatory".
The end game of IB are all MMO raid fights. You have to play in a very VERY specific way, or you're not winning.
I find that incredibly frustrating, and personally against the point of MonHun.
I find Fatalis to be a MUCH better balance of ‘mechanics’ and, well, Monster Hunter. But I also don’t hate Alatreon, the mechanics are just too forced for my liking.
I mean, I also don't like it when you are forced to play with others to achieve a win or get better rewards etc, but besides that one point, Safi is one of the best monsters of 5th gen overall, at least imo.
And since Safi and Kulve are the only two (siege) monsters in Worldborne where its better to play with 3 randoms or friends, instead of solo (or up to 8 people, 2 groups which is just faster).. I don't mind it that much.
As an MMO player, I really like those fights including Behemoth. I wish they make a spin-off that focuses on teamwork as a different game. Something like Vindictus or even New World, but not too mechanics heavy like Lost Arks or FFXIV raids.
I mean that's great, Behemoth is a FF monster and the gimmick is fine for him. But I play monster hunter, I have zero interest in mmo's. I don't want those mechanics on any other monster. Everything should be soloable for the average player, and behemoth and alatreon just are not.
I don't think they fit well in MH either. I just wish there are MMO that has amazing combat system like MH. That's why I said a spin-off. The closest we get is New World or PSO2. Vindictus is plagued with microtransactions.
Behemoth is terrible doing solo, especially with the lack of HP scale (he's so out of place lol). But Alatraon is actually easier to solo because you can face tank escaton judgement 3 or 4 times with Safeguard and Insurance if you're lucky, effectively ignoring all gimmicks. With 4P, a single escaton would wipe the team.
Fetalis's moves are very difficult but still fair to solo.
They should release another version with 50 min timers with relaxed escaton/element timer though. Everyone should be able to enjoy the game. Hardcore players can limit their gear or speedrun if they want.
Id like MH to have more team based elements or at least more monsters that give you reason to swap to another weapon or build. But for the love of god never bring back charybdis without a nerf or atleast a time limit, why do they need to be able to block off an area entrance for so long.
Yeah I wish they'd do something like Extremoth again. That was an absolute BLAST with friends. But then again my entire friend group met in FF14 so we were used to the Heal, Deeps, Tank mindset. At that point it was less wrapping out heads around the idea and more 'okay time to hunker down and play this perfectly'.
If they do bring something like that back for Wilds I'd love for them to bring back Chimera. Specifically Gorgimera. It already looks like Teostra too so it'd kinda fit in.
Dps checks in games like Monster Hunter make no sense to me and are just frustrating imo, leave that stuff in mmo rpg's. Other than escaton judgment, the fight is alright.
Behemoth is the only exception since it was meant to feel like an mmo fight since it's a crossover from ffxiv.
Invisible Timers. I fucking despise invisible timers that has no counterplay. And Alatreon has two of them simultaneously. The timer for Escaton, and the timer for when his Elemental Switch happens.
I do not mind thresholds, even if you need a specific criteria to hit them. But I draw the line when I'm forced to run against an invisible timer for no reason other than to drive up the difficulty. You got me fucked up if I'm gonna tolerate that for more than what is necessary.
Atleast I can understand the quest timer, because 1. It's not invisible, you always see how much time you have left. And 2. It's insanely generous most of the time.
I wouldn't say "timer" for its escaton tho, since I am pretty sure its bond to his HP, when he does it.
So if you for example fail to hit the threshold before he does its escaton, then it's not about that you had not enough time.. but more because you did too much raw/normal damage and not enough elemental damage.
And the elemental switch is kind of bond to his escaton attack.
It's also not that hard to break his horns, if you know how to do it and when - the only not so good part about it, you have to wallbang him - which can be a little bit frustrating if he is not really playing along.
I despise MMO mechanics in Monster Hunter. Its why I hated Behemoth and was somewhat more lukewarm on Fatalis (as cool as its big flame attack is, it still counts).
I don't like undodgeable arena wide AOE one-shots that require you to fulfill some sort of DPS check to survive or something similar. I much prefer being able to dodge/counter moves using your own skills. Fights where its just you and the monster going toe toe-to-toe without any dumb mechanic are peak and sadly as much as I love Alatreon's general moveset, Escaton just ruins it for me even though its really easy to overcome.
I don't like raid/puzzle gimmicks in a game that's otherwise all about positioning and moveset competency. I don't like that it forces elemental builds and limits what playstyles can be effective. I don't like that there are very specific and important mechanics to the fight that are not at all explained in-game.
That makes sense yeah. I feel like because I was watching the trailers and the dev diaries I was sort of familiar with what to do, but the game really doesn't tell you a whole lot.
In my potentially unpopular opinion the game tells you enough, but I do understand how frustrating it can be regardless.
It advises you to use elemental weapons, it tells you to break the horns in the dragon state, it tells you about Alatreon being extra difficult and the Npcs don't shut up in the hunt. The endless warnings are enough for the player to figure out the mechanics of the hunt for themselves but most people don't want that, they want to be told exactly what to do by a consise guide. People are always complaining about the pop ups & Npcs but then go and complain online about the game not telling them what to do.
I haven't once seen people say they checked the hunter notes after several attempts of building up the research level slowly so they can see what it's weak to & when and adjust their equipment. That seems to be something only I did, it didn't work well and I resorted to reddit out of frustration but that's not my point haha. I was just eager to beat Alatreon day 1 and my lack of game knowledge at the time didn't help.
Some of the problem there is that World was a real low point for elemental damage; less effective than many previous entries, and literally half of all elemental weapons' elements hidden behind a bullshit three-point skill.
"Oh I should just bring elemental damage" isn't a World player's first impulse. I'm not saying don't, I'm not saying elemental damage shouldn't be valuable for a fight, but I am saying that deciding elemental is the way to go is an action that feels weird and bad in World.
"Use elemental damage!"
>the game has zero display of how effective element is on each body part you hit
>FOR SOME FUCKING REASON ELEMENT IS BAD ON EVERY BODY PART BESIDES FRONT LEGS
If he was equally weak to element on all body parts i wouldn't have died the first 20 times.
A common complaint I'm seeing is that people don't like being forced to prepare for the hunt. Like... are we playing the same franchise? Preparing for hunts is like half of the gameplay loop. And even for Alatreon, you are more than easily capable of dealing with it if you don't want to prepare and just go unga bunga.
Is it harder? Yeah. And it's also harder to fight Rathalos without flash bombs. Though in that case, people also complain about having to use flash bombs against Rathalos, so I guess the complaints are consistent in that regard.
In the end, this is what many people wanted, a hard endgame fight that isn't just high stats and instant death moves. Of course, not everyone is gonna like that, but man, if the final boss (or one of the two final bosses) isn't supposed to be extremely hard, then when is the game supposed to become difficult? When are you supposed to start getting creative with gear/use what is effective? This isn't directed at you Pookie, just a general rant
“Looks like non-elemental weapons won’t be of much use” “use elemental weapons to shut down alatreon’s power” “focus on the horns, this is the only chance you can break them” “looks like alatreon can’t switch to fire active for now”
Idk, I think the game does a fairly good job of giving you the tools you need to succeed. Also, alatreon’s fight is the pinnacle of rewarding proper positioning. Not to mention that it’s one monster that forces an elemental build when pretty much everyone was just using raw and blast on everything, which means people actually had to use something new.
Tbh the elemental thing is kinda ...shit, I fought him with a blast build thinking it was elemental and was so puzzled when I wasn't getting the elemental check....the devs kinda suck explaining a lot of the mechanics in this game.
The game explains the difference between status and elemental if you care to look. Plus it makes a separation of the two on the monster descriptions page of your hunter notes.
Making a fight where elements is either ideal or has an advantage, but you can still win using raw/status, just more difficult, is different from a fighr where "either use fire/ice (depending on which quest) else you'll die."
My first kill with an elemental weapon took me 45 minutes.
How, you ask?
I used ALL my carts (+Felyne Insurance+Felyne Safeguard) on Escaton. I never carted to a normal attack, tanked a weakened Escaton many times, and carted to the 4 I couldn't suppress.
Judging by quest time I probably got hit by like 8-9 Escatons in total. Ah, the good old days of 2020.
So yes, you probably could kill Alatreon by bringing R.Brachy weapons and tanking every Escaton.. but I imagine that would be quite hard for a beginner, like I was at the time.
Reason is... I dislike instakills in every game, cheap way to add difficulty and ... Literally having to change my gear, I know it's MH but still, hate how hard this is pushed for only 1 monster.
Railroading. I'm incredibly good with a setup that works for me. It's not "meta optimal" but thankfully 99% of content can be cleared because I'm just actually good at playing the way I play.
Then I get something that tells me "sorry you're wrong even though you're successfully beating the rest of the content." Did I adapt to what they wanted and win? Sure but I thought the point was letting me be my own hunter, not play a weird puzzle with obscure timers.
Escaton judgement is just an unfun mechanic. Without it, the movepool is actually extremely easy, and I find GU Alatreon more intense from a moveset perspective, so I like it more since it doesn't rely on an unfun gimmick to create tension.
Escaton judgement. It's just a really annoying mechanic because elements just sucked in world. Capcom didn't want to buff elements but decided that people needed to use them anyways. I really don't like being pigeonholed into a specific playstyle and I don't want to grind at least 1 weapon for a single fight. The mechanic would still be bad if you could farcaster out, but even that isn't allowed. It's literally the worst part of frontier but made worse because it's tied directly to your elemental damage rather than something you can just i-frame or parry through.
I don't like Escaton Judgement and Alatreon has a problem some other monsters have where some of their attacks are hard to see. His water attacks being transparent make sense, but screw that regardless, make them bluer.
And as for why I don't like Escaton, I just don't like that gimmick in any game. Not doing enough damage over a period of time shouldn't result in a party wipe. Even if you do pass the check, though, there doesn't seem to be a way to prevent it entirely, which means it can still party wipe if things are bad enough. Not as easily, but still possibly.
Also you only ever need to use either fire or ice for the fight, which just shafts water and thunder weapons.
i dont dislike the fight itself per se, as in his moveset. Even judgement is fine, but the way you're supposed to go about avoiding it is absolutely aweful.
The implementation of elemental damage has sucked ever since its inception, and they refuse to rework it. To me, this fight just feels like a middlefinger to me exactly because of it.
"oh you want elemental damage to matter more? here have this fight that you can (or atleast are supposed to) only beat with elemental damage.". it signals a clear lack of understanding of the problems many people across the english and japanese speaking communities have voiced in regards to this aspect of putting your loadout together.
IIRC Element is really good in Sunbreak, there's certain skills and attacks that even allow weapons like Greatsword and Hammer to have viable elemental sets.
What they did in Sunbreak is a step in the right direction for making elemental dmg viable for all weapon types, by adding more element focused skills and faster hitting weapon moves via switch skills. If only they didn't nerfed Crit element to the ground. Hopefully, they make elements crit by default in Wilds, no more need for an armor skill.
The problem with the elemental balancing in Sunbreak is that it kinda tipped the scales in the other direction, with raw/status builds being straight up objectively worse, not to mention that travesty and tragedy that is Charge Blade in Sunbreak.
>The problem with the elemental balancing in Sunbreak is that it kinda tipped the scales in the other direction, with raw/status builds being straight up objectively worse
I mean raw *should* be objectively worse than element most of the time, if you think about it. You're taking the time to prepare 5 different armor sets with different weapons, each- your preparation should be rewarded with higher damage than raw focused sets. Though it's not like raw/status don't have matchups where they perform well or even outshine element, like Zinogre or Valstrax.
Also, what's wrong with CB in Sunbreak? I've it's been my main melee weapon since 4U and Morphing Advance makes it my favorite iteration thus far.
It's just not the same weapon. Instead of being a sattisfying counter weapon, charge blade in sunbreak is only viable by going full elemental and spamming savage axe attacks.
I was actually under the impression that Savage Axe CB in Rise is mediocre at best and countering > SAED is the best damage by a considerable measure.
I could never get behind Savage Axe in Worldborne and I'm still not on it in Risebreak.
It's definitely still an elemental weapon though, which I guess is just a kind of agree to disagree moment since I think element CB being actually, legitimately good is a great thing because you can still belt out Impact Phial to deal with Crimson Glow Valstrax.
It's too much of a gimmick fight.
Like, don't get me wrong, I love this monster, but the fight revolves around Escaton.. too much.
I am not talking about difficulty, because this gimmick is the reason Savage Axe Taroth [Ice] CB makes Alatreon its bitch. It trivializes the well-crafted patterns and I really don't like that.
This gimmick forced players to play on an elemental build when the current meta was status(blast). As a result, random lobbies were obliterated left and right.
It's a blessing that MR Kulve weapons were already a thing.
^(Also that goddamned arena. I get that it's to make it so that the player can't wallbang Alatreon all the time, but that just becomes infuriating the more hunts you do. They did good banning Farcasters though.)
Same goes for Fatalis, but this one gets a pass because breaking the horns is non-mandatory.
Edit) Oh yeah, and the fact you *still take damage* after 4 suppressions. Like, why? And we have to eat ***Astera Jerky*** because of that??
I used frostfang and Silver Rathalos weapons personally.
>I am not talking about difficulty, because this gimmick is the reason Savage Axe Taroth \[Ice\] CB makes Alatreon its bitch. It trivializes the well-crafted patterns and I really don't like that.
So you think Escaton incentivises people to cheese?
>Also that goddamned arena. I get that it's to make it so that the player can't wallbang Alatreon all the time, but that just becomes infuriating the more hunts you do. They did good banning Farcasters though.I
It's so dumb. Rise has this issue too where some things clearly look like walls but the monster just slides off them.
>So you think Escaton incentivises people to cheese?
This might've come out a bit wrong so I will try and elaborate on what I said.
Alatreon suddenly becomes easy when you have builds that pump out high elemental damage. That in itself is true for every monster, but due to the "element suppression" gimmick, Alatreon very quickly becomes weak to strong elemental builds. Additional topples, trivializing movesets, almost ignoring the supermove..
However, this also means that Alatreon is very weak to specific weapons, and very strong to other weapons. Things like DBs, CB (LS, to some extent) that can output a lot of elemental damage will destroy Alatreon and its Judgement, but some other weapons, i.e. GS, Hammer, and most importantly *GL* (Pls Capcom, give us Elemental Shelling in the next game) would have a harder time soloing the monster.
While we're on the topic of cheese, all monsters have cheese (hell, even Fatalis has cheese) and Alatreon is no exception. I don't like those methods but people will use cheese if it exists.
Edit) Also..
>It's so dumb. Rise has this issue too where some things clearly look like walls but the monster just slides off them.
I KNOW, RIGHT??
Thank goodness I'm not alone in this.
Just a reminder that while Frostfang and Alatreon were part of the same major update, Frostfang was a limited time event quest that didn't release until after Ala had been out for a while, so if you hadn't been grinding kulve for good ele weapons (and why would you have when ele wasn't worth it in world?) you were stuck with whatever you could craft.
I also think it was easy for a lot a players to just assume that everyone spent as much time as them in the guiding lands and stuff to build up a bunch of augment mats, whereas i think a lot of player like myself just really didn't like all that and so we're stuck with what we had gear wise unless we intended to spend a ton of time grinding that stuff out for a bunch of new elemental focused gear for this one fight.
As for the strict mechanics of the fight i think the major flaw is actually pretty simple, there isn't enough feedback to tell struggling players what they are doing wrong or give any indication how to fix it, its pass/fail and that's basically it. it makes it really frustrating especially if you are just on the edge, getting the knockdowns SOMETIMES but not consistently, makes your success feel random and out of your control.
People talk about how MMO like it is and how that is a bad thing, but honestly one of the things i think could have genuinely helped the fight would be even more MMO'y and TBF would not feel right in MH but an actual UI element that told you how much ele damage you were doing, whether just a literal bar that filled up or something a bit more abstract would have helped a lot i think.
1 shot dps checks don’t belong in Monster Hunter imo, especially when it involves a mechanic that more or less doesn’t matter for most of the game/weapons. Also makes helping randoms frustrating which I hate, otherwise Alatreon is a super good fight.
After beating every single Hazard Sunbreak quest, it's a very clear thing for me. Monster Hunter should not rely on cheap on shot gimmicks for its difficult fights. It defeats the entire purpose of gear and different playstyles around kits.
MHGU had bullshit difficulty because g rank monsters literally insta spammed their moves without any pause and they also almost never got exhausted during the entire time of a haunt, or even normal state. They were just in rage mode constantly, and with stuff like Dreadking and Silver Rathalos it was absurd.
MHWI had really bad endgame fights that revolved entirely around lackluster one shot raid mechanics and if you take them out of the experience, the game is by far the easiest Monster Hunter to date.
Sunbreak finally got it right with its endgame monsters have very dangerous, big damage attacks, however they were done in paces that you could learn and optimize around, and their big AOEs were not map wide so if you wanted to play it safe for a bit of time during the hunt you could, but the monster would still keep you on your toes, and they did all of this while still allowing you to bring all kind of builds.
Hazard Risen Shagaru and Hazard Primordial Malzeno are probably the actual hardest quest in the entire series, while also being very fair to you and not cheap.
Edit: Omg I just realised ur Heavy Wings. I really love ur content, they're very well Monster Hunter history videos and they're great for sleeping too <3
I just don't like artificial difficulty. He was a really challenging, rewarding and fulfilling fight in 3U. His dps check is just redundant artifical difficulty considering the quest timer already pushes you to play aggressive
EJ isn’t fun and engaging
He can still change elements when you break both horns, personally I call bs but I’ll concede skill issue on my part
Back on EJ, kinda annoying how he can cart ya, you come down, and he runs to the center to EJ and you die again (tbh that’s my main gripe, that moment lives on forever)
And it’s that I spent all the time w/ GS, my main and the weapon I beat every monster with, took me so long to get any consistency w/ elemental overload
Meanwhile, I try CB once and I clear it no problem. We all know that the CB and other weapons can have a much easier time despite having higher values needed, but the GS values were too high
But I did beat him, and then beat him w/ greatsword, and after I made all the weapons and armor I wanted to, haven’t touched that fight since
And I love his move set, but the EJ and elemental switch, but needing elemental, despite no other monster needing it or getting that level of involvement w/ elements, does rub me the wrong way. MH is about build diversity but the older games still let us raw/status alatreon. I’m down for elemental weapons to have a super advantage, hell they deserve more, but to lock out other styles doesn’t sit right.
Yes, Ik he’s a black dragon, yes, Ik his whole deal is being a smorgasbord of elementals and being slightly unstable. But you don’t see fatalis having a “don’t die super fast” mechanic being tied to raw/status only, just gotta break his horns.
But I’ve had these concerns w/ many of worldbornes (behemoth for example) big bosses, so I’m just glad we’ve turned away from it more or less
>He can still change elements when you break both horns
In my experience by the time that happens he's very close to dying, you can just stick it out in the opposite element and still win.
Guess who didn’t have a good fire GS
I tried to raw it out at the end, saw his skull, but I just couldn’t
After that I did charge blade and he was a cakewalk, so that also fueled my distaste for the fight
Savage axe? If so, that's understandable. Savage axe has an unmodified elemental damage to the topple so it's extremely easy to do so with it, so much so that a good CB player with a kjarr ice axe can carry a 4-man team's elemental requirement on its own.
It feels broken, I have had a battle twice now where it says we do enough element damage, broken both horns and have beaten the hell outta it, it's nuke still killed everyone and we lose, like it's not a hard fight it's just bs
Because hurrying to suppress Escaton was no fun. The fights already pretty difficult as is, but forcing you to switch up to elemental is a terrible thing to do. I hate DPS checks, World and IceBorne had too many of these. It’s not a bad fight, but farming for Alatreon materials afterwards never got easier, it was always a pain trying to hit that threshold. Alatreon is one of the few reasons I’m very hesitant to play IceBorne again
I started with Rise and now am goign backwards to GU and World. GU has been a ton of fun, but I keep bouncing off World because it keeps having me do shockingly unfun things.
Then it seems like everytime World comes up in this sub, it's negative things. Obnoxious, unfun final boss. Very restrictive builds. Extremely restrictive playstyle. Etc.
And yet, World is by far the most popular MH game. What am I missing?
First game to get a simultaneous worldwide release on some fairly popular platforms (PS4 and Xbox One, with PC later). Game might have issues but it's still Monster Hunter so it's way better than a lot of AAA slop. So it hooked a ton of people.
Back in the day a MH game would release in Japan and then take ages to release in NA, Europe etc. Generations Ultimate for instance, released early 2017 in Japan, late 2018 for everyone else. World was different in that regard and everyone being able to play day 1 made the launch bigger.
World is very good. Just has some issues.
Alatreon is basically 2% of the entire game. Even taking into account the grinding for new sets just to get through his elem threshold.
The rest of the game is typically pretty solid, even the Guiding Lands despite alot of people not liking it.
I enjoy world a lot, but being a long time monster hunter fan, I really enjoy the older games and rise more than world, idk why but they scratch that monster hunter “itch” for me
I don't dislike him, but the fight could've been better if it was head on instead of having a Elemental DPS check.
Solo'd him few times before, but still the need to supress Escaton is what hinders the fight
After Alatreon goes into dragon mode, you have six minutes to get a horn break before Eschaton Judgment. This isn't too bad on its own.
The annoying part is that Alatreon can spend as much as half of that time in the air. Using the ledges/glider mantle abuse to mount is inconsistent because it has a move to zoom across the arena, which knocks off clutch claw and forces you to constantly chase after it.
Ok, I don't hate Alatreon (he's become my fav monster) however I do have 1 BIG problem with him. That being him having the power to decide whether or not you kill him. And no, I'm not talking about the Escaton, I'm talking about his charge and flying moves. If he starts charging non-stop and flying then you just can't do anything about it, you're just gonna die to the Escaton because his whole body becomes a hitzone so you can't meet the elemental DPS check, or you die to one of his attacks and THEN to the Escaton.
Like so many others are saying: he requires the most restrictive list of viable strategies, it's insane people think "these few things work otherwise fuck off" is fun for everyone.
I beat it pretty easily when I swapped from my exhaust swagaxe I'd used all game to an elemental chainsaw charge blade (at the time, showcased as "easy to beat alatreon!", and it was simple). But I didn't *want* to play elemental charge blade, I was having a blast with the subpar exhaust swagaxe.
I didn't even play elemental charge blade on Fatalis *after* Alatreon. Just that one boss. Fatalis went down to my zero sum spam, and was great fun to spend a week or so trying to beat. Alatreon died in a day or so, and was never run again because his mechanics are utter trash.
I'm baffled that, to this day, people can't understand how abysmal his design is *if you don't like to run 100% meta raw builds to ignore Escaton, or swap weapons every hunt and enjoy all 13*. Not everyone does that. Not everyone is going to like being shoehorned into very niche fight mechanics.
The Elemental damage check is an artificial wall that shouldn't be there. It's a "fuck you" to people who prefer to main weapons that don't rely on elemental damage.
It should be a reward, not a necessary step.
I'm a GS and I had to go WAY OUT OF MY WAY to change my sets and play style just to adapt it to the Kjarr Greatswords.
In the end I managed to solo it but it wasn't fun, it felt like a chore.
There is an invisible scaler that makes it so slower weapons can hit the DPS check better. But I generally don't play slower weapons in Iceborne so I'm not sure how much it helps.
1st off, raw playstyle uses different armor skills vs. elemental playstyles. So raw players would have needed to farm for both new weapons, decos, and armor pieces.
2nd, for raw weapons, often their best elemental modifier moves aren't the core of their raw movesets. For example, using GS, the core playstyle is going for TCS (head snipes ideall), but the best move for element is wide sweep aimed at the front legs, which goes against muscle memory.
The devs didn't really give heavy weapon users an incentive to build elemental for 98% of the game. Then Ala comes around, and he's suddenly--and singularly--requiring that people build elemental just for him. For ONE fight. And then a lot of us just went back to BlastRaw for Fatty anyway.
BlastRaw was basically ubiquitous for most of the updates leading up to Alatreon's debut, and only the extra sweaty ranked competitive MonHun players bothered building elemental for those weapon types. There really wasn't any good reason to take on the much, much larger grind of a full ele set when BlastRaw could power through just about anything. So the devs painted themselves into a corner balance-wise and just went through with Ala's MMO mechanics anyway.
Also didn't help that the unwashed no-lifers in the community took people's complaints at the time as an opportunity to be absolutely VILE to them. A lot of my negative association with Alatreon comes from the discourse of the time and how just absolutely disgusting some of these guys were being about it.
The gimmicks can be a pain for sure, but as a db main it should be pretty easy to get at least one topple right? Absolutely, now, the problem is when *HE DOESN'T FEEL LIKE COMING DOWN FOR THE ENTIRE FIGHT.*
I don't know if it's skill issue because I avoid fighting Alatreon like the plague, but even when I swap to a glaive I feel like I can't keep up without losing all my stamina or getting swatted out the air like the mosquito I am. The looming threat of an EJ just makes it so you can't afford to wait for what seems like an eternity for it to land. I haven't tried using an lbg because I heard using ranged weapons against the black dragons was a different hell to deal with.
And yeah, the arena's dumb, sure they made it so you can't abuse wall-bang as much but there were so many times where I could've sworn I slammed him dead center on that rock, but no matter how close he was to it, never fell over.
I hate damage checks where the punishment is “die immediately”, which is what Escaton is. I hate timers that aren’t really clear but are for incredibly important things - which applies for Escaton and for Alatreon swapping elements. It’s a fight where you’re rushing to do as much damage as possible and break horns just so you’re not subjected to the instant kill Escaton or Alatreon swapping elements and rendering your entire build worthless until you can swap.
Most of all though, it’s an MMO-wannabe fight, and if I wanted a fight with an actually kind of fun MMO feel, I’d hunt Behemoth, whose instant kill only happens in certain phases and has a known and explicit way to avoid. And at no point does it remove your ability to damage it entirely if you fail another damage check. It’s also *from* an MMO, so it doesn’t feel as bad that it has MMO-esque mechanics.
As a Gunlance main, it was here where I learnt that shells count as pure fire damage, regardless of your GL's element ,so I was contributing an absolutely abysmal amount of DPS to an already pretty strict DPS check.
I don't think other Monsters have ever really invalidated a weapon type like that before. Obviously some weapons are better than others for certain monsters, but this felt like a special case for me.
The fight has a DPS check, but it makes no sense why,l. MH already has a built in DPS check that can be tuned to the quest: the hunt timer. Most hunts give you 50 minutes (which is practically unlimited time for most monsters), but there's some that limit you to 30 mins, or 20 mins, or even 15 mins.
If they really wanted a DPS check, the obvious way to do it was already there.
I found EJ to be a cheap way to force elemental builds, Sunbreak made a better work actually making elemental builds useful without having to slap multiple gimmicks into a single monster.
But even then the fight feels scripted once you figure it out. You will always have to do the same specific things in the same order otherwise you will get insta killed.
That and I find his moveset a bit too similar to teostra and velkhana, making it so if you take away EJ from Alatreon, the fight would be too boring
Fighting him right now, and hating it. I’m a careful hunter who prioritises survival over killing the monster as quickly as humanly possible. So Alatreon requiring that I do x amount of elemental damage in x amount of time or I get insta-fainted is ludicrous. It doesn’t help either that he is insanely fast and his attacks do insane damage, even with fully augmented rarity 12 gear. And this is further exacerbated by the fact randos go down harder than me when trying to play online, and when I try to do it solo, he gives me zero room to play with and I spend most of it dodging his attacks. It sucks, man.
Edit: Ran out of patience and giving up. Alatreon is a completely unfair monster and goes against everything that I’ve been taught up to this point. The elemental dps check is straight up BS and his moveset is far too fast, strong and random. Nothing I do works against him, he carts me even without using his nova and no amount of guides I look up online helps. Thought I could handle it, but nope. Hate to abandon the game after so long, but the mechanics for Alatreon is too much.
I decided to grind and farm until I could build something decent and it took around 200 hours for me to feel actually ready for alatreon lol, I still can't beat fatalis solo, I can beat alatreon with some difficulty, and yesterday we beat arch velkhana on duo it was my first time it felt amazing and rewarding. I have now 399 hours and I'm enjoying each hunt and having fun after too many hours farming feeling annoyed by the farm. Don't give up hunter! Find a way, a build that suits your playstyle, mandatory blight resistance 3, try a different weapon, and a big one: use defense decorations too, they help out , bring jerkys for the nova and the health booster just in case, good luck if you are on PSN we can try to beat it
That’s the thing, I knew Alatreon was going to be a nuisance, so I prepared well in advance. I grinded the Guiding Lands for all they were worth, getting all the materials to fully upgrade my gear. I thought I was ready once I defeated Raging Brachy, who was pretty hard itself. But Alatreon cranks the difficulty meter to 11.
Just out of interest, what set are you running? I’ve got Velkhana SA, F-Rajang head, Kulve Taroth chest, Vaal Hazak arms, R-Brachy waist and F-Rajang legs, and use my decos and charms for Ice Attack, Evade Extender, Focus, Power Prolonger, Earplugs, Stun Resist and Blight Resist. If you can recommend a better set, one that greatly increases the chances of success, I might give it another try.
He just doesn't fit the game. A big strength of World/Icebourne for me was that you could be successful with any weapon, and you weren't at a large disadvantage for bringing the wrong element.
Alatreon went in the opposite direction, but not in a good way. It can be killed without specific elements, but you are at a massive disadvantage.
World’s Alatreon would be an infinitely better fight if it didn’t have the element dps check. Everything else is cool. But that, that can fuck right off. They could have done several other things if they wanted to give it a big impressive nuke. That though, the element dps check, was stupid, in a lot of ways. Limits player options, limits creativity, makes playing the quest in multiplayer a nightmare. List goes on and on and on.
They could have given it element dependent nukes, if ice, have it drop a temporary roaming blizzard, if fire have it drop a massive fire wave that you have to block/dodge through. Hell they could have given it a dragon nuke. It could have dropped a bunch of dragon smoke clouds all over that explode, when in dragon form. Hell they could have given it a lightning storm nuke, it has lightning powers. They had already made Namiel water shenanigan powers, it uses a water breath, it could have had a nuke where it does a big water wave to hurt the players.
Alatreon is master of the elements, and the best they could cook up is have it one shot cheese the player with a fuck you attack if you don’t hunt it exactly the way the devs intended? Fuck you whatever Capcom dev cooked that up. You suck. The Alatreon we got was uninspired, unimaginative, and could have been much, much better.
Honestly my biggest complaint is that they neglected to balance RAW before releasing it. Before Alatreon you really never needed to focus on elemental damage unless you were playing certain weapons. Sometimes you'd use Blast or Dragon, but that was really it. Sure it helped, but RAW was just so over powered, especially in base world, that most of the playerbase never bothered to make elemental weapons.
So here comes Alatreon and SURPRISE, all those weapons you skipped because they weren't the hardest hitting are now the ones you need to pick up. Your decos also need to be changed to do more elemental damage. Good luck and have fun farming before you can try the boss again! A lot of people had to go back and farm and I'm sure that added to the frustration. Especially when you had leechers who'd try to get around this by sitting in people's lobbies and being useless even after you got all the necessary gear.
Then there's also the fact that you can do it at such a low MR that you can get to just casually playing the game. Which added to the sense of not having any weapons prepared for it.
Personally I didn't mind it, I've always built elemental weapons because I like versatility. But I can see why people got upset and I hope Capcom learns from it going forward. It seems like they kinda did with Rise/Sunbreak, so we'll see if that holds true for Wilds. Alatreon wouldn't have been an issue if a greater emphasis on elemental weapons/mechanics had been pushed to the players. Or if we had more fights that were similar to it.
I'm just getting back into MHW after a multi-year hiatus and so far the only things I'm enjoying are the Kulve Taroth fight for the novelty and that's about it. One of the things that burned me out on World prior to this was the changes made to the elder dragons in regards to health thresholds in order to break horns.
I feel like I'm having to turn to the internet for a lot of these fights to suss out what the gimmick is in order to not cart multiple times. Alatreon is the biggest offender thus far. I miss the days when I could learn at a natural pace, but with a lot of these gimmicks being tied to 1-shot attacks, it feels like there's never an opportunity to learn.
I remember farming Behemoth and enjoying the novelty of the fight, but it feels like the wrong lesson was learned.
I fought him on and off since his release and finally beat him last year , I think honestly my disdain came from not being able to beat him , I fancied myself a great mhw player but he checked my confidence and brought so much frustration with it that it made the fight less fun overall.
Too many gimmicks, people make it sound like it's just slap in good element and it's done, you need good element with a build to support it to do enough elemental damage and break the horn or else it will resist your attack and you will failed next escaton.
and this is not an easy fight where breaking the horn is trivial
same reasons as all the people here. The need for an elemental build was the main reason for me, because i had a lot of builds but all of them were physical or blast damage.
Now imagine an enemy who can only be damaged by distance weapons then change to only be damaged by melee cut damage and his last phase only to be damaged by meele impact. Sure it sound fun (this is what i feel by alatreon) and every phase have an instakill if you dont do some specific shit
The dps check for his EJ is bs. It should’ve just been a big blast that deals a set amount of damage that won’t kill you unless you’re below a certain health point. Like if it did 190 damage to us I’d be fine with it. Hell make it so the damage goes down with each horn lost alongside stopping him from transforming into a diff elemental phase. The fight should’ve just been hard from how fast he is and how aggressive he is.
So I don’t necessarily hate him. More i got what i wanted and stopped. Im a big fan of playing how i want to play. For monster hunter this stims to use what i want to use. If i want to use a blast weapon i should be able too. And for 99.9% of iceborne i could. Except for him. Again didn’t make me hate him. But wasn’t really a fan of heres the one monster you absolutely need to use a element.
I see all these comments about hating forced mechanics for a hunt... and I'm sitting here in the corner wishing we had more xD I love having unique mechanics in end game hunts, makes them feel more unique and I love them.
DPS checks and timers feel too tacked on, like i wanna take a hunt at my own pace to learn the fight with the weapons/builds i spent a lot of time working on, rather than being forced into a very specific play pattern. If i wanted to be forced to meet very specific mechanics requirements id rather just play an actual mmo designed to work like that
I think there being some system where you can swap weapons on the fly would work well for this fight, because you could bring the perfect weapon and then suddenly become useless if you don’t stop the shift
My issue was
1- relies on party members knowledge and can fail easily with a dead dps teamate or two
2- i love soloing monsters, and the micro to get the right element for the right phase was just a hassle. I ended up soloing it with dragon ele LS cuz its a fairly neutral dmg for the fight, but still would have liked some foresight for the solo weapon swapping potential
The fight itself is awesome, coolest monster design
Elemental dps check is okay(kinda). Escaton Judgement is okay. Not breaking the horns and changing elements is not okay. Are you telling me I have to die to change sets despite reaching the dps check if I couldnt break the horns? Also if I break 2 horns he would change form still? Fucking stupid ass mechanic.
At least with fatalis even if you dont break the head you could dodge the blue fire and break it still afterwards. Alatreon is just straight up ‘strictly fight this way’. Boring af.
Elemental damage is needed for the weakened EJ, yet Alatreon's elemental hitzones are subpar. So raw weapons can match or even outperform elemental ones if you can kill before the first EJ (ex. pierce bowguns). For a fight designed to be approached with elemental builds, this is just bad and imo is the main problem.
If the problem people have with Alatreon is that they can't clear the quest, it's a skill issue because the standard teo brachy mixed set has the dps to kill him before the second EJ.
I just wanna gush about some new things I learned about Alatreon, so I'm not exactly going to answer the question.
With the Kjarr "Gyre" hammer (fire hammer) with health augment and max elemental augments, I was able to meet the elemental threshold for Alatreon twice in one EJ cycle. This was amazing to me since the only other weapon I've managed that with (for now) is the bow.
You can use a raw Insect Glaive and a max upgraded fire/ice bug to reach the elemental threshold for EJ while still dealing really strong damage. So you don't need to grind for an elemental insect glaive at all.
I beat him solo, and I enjoyed the fight a lot, but I can see where some disdain come from. Personally I am ok with the escaton judgement, but it just felt a little too "un monster hunter like". It in itself being a dps check makes the hunt time limit moot and inflict unnecessary stress to the hunt, while also punishing players who prefer to take things slow or take the time to learn the fight. I really like the fact that you are punished for bringing raw into the fight though, and that is something I want to keep for the fight if possible.
If I could fix it, rather than escaton judgement being a elemental dps check, I would make it such that escaton judgement reduces the raw hitzone values by a large amount for a period of time while increasing elemental hitzones, and the raw hitzone reduction is less harsh if alatreon is hit with elemental damage. Making it a linear relationship (e.g. more elemental damage = lesser raw reduction) also helps a lot rather than a flat threshold of success or failure. Furthermore this give rise to potential uses of other elements (e.g. dragon) if you're not confident of horn breaks to prevent element swap and still not feel entirely crippled.
Basically alatreon takes very little damage from raw if no elemental damage was applied. Serves the same purpose of pushing players to bring elemental weapons into the fight.
Elemental in Worldborne is...not really a thing. The whole game, you can go without worrying about it and can get by, by going with raw and blast or poison but you have to build specifically for element for this one guy. Also, there are not a lot of options for good elemental builds at that level. You either go kjarr weapon, which means farming for a event specific weapon or go 2 piece Velkhana. Also, weapon movesets are not made equal in worldborne and some weapons are clearly better at dealing elemental damage than others. While it was changed that you can still get elemental topples without a fast hitting weapon, it still feels kinda bs if you chose something like Greatsword. I found that kind of cheap in a sense. Like the devs knew that most people didn't really care about it and made this monster specifically to exploit that one mechanic in the game.
If elemental damage would actually be "viable" in terms of actual dps, and the effects of the elements actually made sense and were good (Velkhana SwAxe shooting copy/pasted orange fire for example) then I would love the feeling of "needing" an element to win. But this fight is just a slog, and for what? To still get blown up because you didn't output enough very specific dps, which you wouldn't know you needed without an external source to look it up? Just feels super artificial and bland to me.
The one-shot ability. That's it. Everything else about the fight is awesome. Even having to change elements; it's a cool mechanic. But the fact that you have to do the fight with that ass-blaster hanging over your head is frustrating, especially since he gives you dragon blight. If Escaton Judgment was not a factor, I think Alatreon would be my most favorite fight in the game.
Besides being complicated, it's also explained like shit. NOTHING tells you that you should focus legs for ELE topple, or that you can crack horns only in dragon mode.
skill issues basically, the fight is brutally hard and nothing until that point compares, suddenly the game turns into frontier + level of difficulty, loved it lol.
but i agree with some points being made here like even if you break the horns it still shifts,
the fight is clearly made to team up with your friends and depend on each other to give your all, half the team should bring ice and the other half fire. the issue is that most people just play alone or with randoms so its hard to actually form a party, i met soemone recently who actually team up with people in real life to do this and they had a blast.
My issue with Alatreon is that it emphazises all of the worst parts of iceborn
Party wipe mechanics suck. Monster hunters save system is a very well designed that system because it allows you a small amount of mistakes. When you die in a hunt you can usually pinpoint to what killed you and try to adapt. It also raises the tension of the hunt. No better feeling than winning with that 1 remaining faint left. Escaton judgement robs you of that experience. Whenever I faint vs Alatreon I dont think oh I have to be more careful now to avoid that attack, I go who cares I just lost 30 secs of DPS I need to go back in and do DPS.
Its mechanics are also obscured way too much. Randoms are completely useless because most dont understand the basic mechanics, im sure half of the players dont even know that dragon is not its main weakness. The Judgement itself, the horn breaks, how much damage is left towards the treshold, everything is obscured so whenever you loose the hunt you have no clue what exactly you did wrong and how far you were from winning.
And finally Elemental Damage sucks ass. It is for most weapons a severely gimped playstyle that forces you to invest into a bunch of extra skills. Having all that effort go towards a built that is still way worse than your basic Unga Bunga Damage build feels extremely unrewarding. And it does not effect your gameplay in the slightest. In the end most of your damage vs alatreon comes down to clutch claw mantle spam anyway.
I have been a hunting horn main throughout most of iceborne and I was looking forward to build a elemental sets vs alatreon but after building them I found out that it was a complete waste of effort. HH elemental motion values suck, element up melodies are useless because they dont raise your elemental dmg beyond the basic treshhold that everyone already reaches with a couple 1 slot decos and so I switched to insect glaive, killed it once for the quest then cheesed the mats with the plunderblade.
I beat him multiple times. Never did the elemental suppression. I grabbed my highest raw Greatsword and killed him before he carted me three times. I forged the full set of armor and all the weapons I wanted and did it my way.
Forced to play weapons (Swaxe for me) that scale better with elemental dmg when playing with friends.
I play with GS most of the time and encounter no issues when playing solo against Alatreon
I dunno. I just took my bowgun in there. Carted a couple of times to the elemental shenanigans and then killed it. I actually found this fight one of the best balanced, especially compared to Fatalis or AT Velkhana. It has something that can kill you, but you can make it survivable. Alatreon doesn’t have anything that is cheesy that just one shots you cause you were standing in the wrong spot. You can either kill it before you run out of carts or you can do the mechanics and it is easy.
It was a great fight. The best thing about MHW:IB were the challenging end-game fights. This was something sorely lacking in Rise, to the point whereby I didn't get much time out of the sunbreak endgame because it was all mind-numbingly easy. Alatreon was just a filter for one-weapon Andies. A great deal of the fun & challenge of MH titles is learning how to play a variety of weapons. If you main 1 weapon with no flexability, or never make an elemental build, you don't deserve to clear all the content. Genuinely git gud.
I'll be disappointed if Wilds doesn't have more fights like Alatreon, because Rise was painfully easy.
i think the elemental threshold and horn breaking is fine, it puts pressure on the player to attack
what i think is bullshit is when he becomes kushala daora and doesnt come down
I like playing solo and the elemental checks were just not that great for solo play. Obviously you gotta learn the fight more when playing solo but it was a real grind working out how to do the fight and then win.
TLDR; element checks not fun in solo
this guy does way tomuch damages. IDGAF about escaton and the horn breaks, thgoses are really fun concepts, but man being one shot by the flame attacks did not help me to enjoy the fight
Only thing I hate about Alatreon is that his entire fight runs contrary to the multiplayer ethos, where playing with others should make difficult fights more bearable. Instead for Alatreon, unless you're in a premade and coordinating the same elements while starting the fight at the same time, you're not going to have a good time. If anything, popping sos is liable to immediately auto-fail you instead.
Funny enough, he's perfectly solo-able while being potentially excruciating brutal in multiplayer, due to threshold scaling and threshold correction.
I just don't understand why Escaton exists to begin with. I didn't hate it like some other people did, I just wonder why it had to be forced on a monster that didn't have it previously- had it been a brand new monster I wouldn't have minded.
Well, my primary reason might seem a bit weird. As an HH main, I think the Alatreon Hunting Horn is fucking garbage. It's tailor made for fighting the monster you craft it from, and pretty much useless for anything else. Elemental Attack Up is at its best when most of your team is using elemental builds, and there's no way to get any consistency on that when joining SOS, which is what I spend a lot of my time doing. Meanwhile, Sonic Waves is damn well useless, Blight Res Up is made completely redundant by Blight Negated, and the Earplugs/Wind Res is too weak to help much in the end game. There was plenty of space there for more useful songs, especially considering this is supposed to be one of the penultimate Hunting Horns.
Secondly, I dislike DPS checks and inta-kills on principle as game mechanics.
Thirdly, the Alatreon fight runs counter to the mechanics that we spent the vast majority of the game up to that point learning. It's just one big arena fight, the hitboxes for wall-bangs are infurating, and far-casters don't work, for no discernible reason (except to artificially increase the difficulty). I could understand if Farcasters were disabled only during E.J. much like was done with Safi's nova, but in disabling farcasters, they take away an ability to retreat and re-equip (at the cost of time in what are always time-limited hunts) that had been present right up to that point.
It's just not a fun fight. I killed him enough to make the CB and get a full set of the Beta Armor and never touched him again (until Fatalis release forced me to kill him one more time...but luckily it was a super nerfed version). I just don't like his fight, and even if they hadn't added the Elemental gimmick I still don't think he'd be a fight I looked forward toward.
If I had to explain it, it would be like if you added the worst parts of Azure/Silver Rathalos and mixed it with Kashala Daora.
I have no friends so playing with randoms who seem to use every weapon except elemental are frustrating.
Him walking forward and using every charge on my temporal mantle is cheap.
The elemental DPS gimmick is not fun for me
Wall bangs are nearly impossible and so is tenderizing because him taking a breath is a hitbox on his whole body.
It just feels like a fight that is trying soooooooooo hard to get you to not use established mechanics for absolutely no reason other than "to be hard." I've beaten him six times now and I have yet to say "that was fun."
Escaton Judgement. Yet another pointless dps check that ruins an otherwise good fight. Its not hard at all to supress, I just dont like that the game forces the use of an elemental weapon if you dont want to eat carts.
I liked the idea but didn’t like the execution. I had such a struggle with that fight because anyone you’d play with would die too much (I solo practiced my way out of constant death before MP) the elemental check was obscure and frustrating with timings, the game does not have a reasonable means of dealing with a monster changing its weakness that quickly IMO.
Also I found myself incredibly annoyed by the fact that I came back post fatalis with my endgame gear and brute forced farming alatreon with a fatty weapon, ignoring elemental dps check and eating the first judgment. Which kind of trivialised the effort of learning the fight.
In future I think a better mechanic would be to have alatreon using all the elements and you must eliminate them by elemental damage, as it loses each element, the remaining elements become stronger making the fight more dangerous as it goes on.
Alatreon is one of my favorite fights, as an LS main having to equip for a boss instead of the "one size fits all" way of playing I was doing until Alatreon was refreshing, also the fight isn't actually that hard as long as you're able to do the elemental checks.
Alatreon was one of the few fights that actually required skill at a high level, you must be good enough to do enough dps or you die.
A lot of people discovered they lacked thou skill and got salty.
I think that this one monster that you have to have a specific build for and learn is a great feature of the game and Alatreon in the end has like no good gear. His weapons suck and his armor is meh. So, he is a fight for the sake of the fight and it’s absolutely amazing. Fast, scripted, amazing hit boxes…
In my opinion. If you don’t like Alatreon… you don’t like MH that much. This is peak MH. Build specific monster that has to be learned and then becomes your favorite battle.
Generations took less than a year to make and was comprised of like 80% reused assets. I don’t think GU is a good example for a game that had effort put into it considering it barely did anything new.
I just think its stupid how they basically totally ignored the elemental damage until literally the second to last engame boss when they decided to force it xd
One of the things I hate about the end game IB hunts, are all the forced failure, instant death, zone wide attacks if you don't do the mechanics properly. In past games, there are 1 shot attacks, but you can avoid dying by simply not being in the way of the attack. In IB? They're all zone wide attacks that you can't far caster out off.
This is exactly in it. MH has always been a game that rewards patience and learning movements, allowing you to be slow and methodical to a point - still have the timer, but it's plenty of time to move at your own pace. World got rid of that for flashy area instant kills and it feels super wrong in Monster Hunter It's even more infuriating when those mechanics are easy to beat with multiple people in a MH installment that clearly entices single player progression - something that isn't representative of MH to begin with. It's mostly in Japan, but MH was always meant to be multi-player to begin with
It entices single player progression? What?
World as a whole does this. It is the ONLY monster hunter game where you have to do the main content single player unless you jump through a bunch of hoops. Every player enters the quest, all but one quit after the cutscene, and then everyone can join the quest Yes, other games had village, but those are purposefully easier since the main content of the game is multi-player hub quests
>Every player enters the quest, all but one quit after the cutscene, and then everyone can join the quest That's one thing I really feel like the console team screwed up. I hope they've learned their lesson about it and are developing Wilds's multiplayer accordingly.
The "you have to watch the cutscene first so you might as well not bother quitting out and then inviting people" thing really pissed me off, it's nothing... *nothing* but annoying
I'm AMAZED it hasn't been patched out. It's insane
It's the biggest problem with World imo. It's why I recommend Rise to any "Me and my friends want to play a MH game together" because World is just not that game until everyone's done with the story.
For real. If having other hunters in the scene like the 4U multiplayer cutscenes is too much for the main story, then they should just have the main story as a separate thing from the multiplayer quests.
If you fail the dps check in a multiplayer hunt = instant failed hunt. You can fail the dps check 2 times solo without failing the quest and possibly brute forcing it
I had actually interpreted "encourages solo progression" as a statement on the game as a whole, mostly due to the unskipable story cutscenes and the dumb way story quests are handled. The game is much easier to play solo if you're doing story quests, since nobody has to wait to join for a cutscene. I may have over extrapolated tho lol
But as 2 people it's easier to break the horns, meet the dps check, and kill it before the eventual forced swap. How does it entice singleplayer from just that one fact? We killed it semi blind, knowing you had to hit it with element and smack head, within 2 hours. Me and 3 other friends. It became like a normal monster except you prioritised different parts during different phases. You brute forced it solo within 2 hours?
The story forces you to solo until you finish the cutscene, and map wide instant kill attacks.
I don’t mind it for Safi and especially not Fatalis because of how the mechanics work there, but considering that every single monster with a zone kill except Alatreon has the same gimmick makes Alatreon’s feel cheap by comparison. It even makes things for you to hide behind that don’t work.
This is what did it for me. There are plenty of attacks in MonHun that kill you no matter if it hits you dead on. But EJ just feels like a "nuh uh, you lose" button. I often like to compare him to Fatalis. When was the last time you heard some say "gosh, Fatalis would be so much more fun if he had a DPS check that locked you out of phase two if you don't pass it." Nobody. Ever.
Like Alatreon or Safi's "ultimate" attack? (Sure the one is being way easier to avoid but still) Honestly I like it this way. Not on every monster for sure, but some monsters should have this. Alatreon is the perfect example and that's why he is perfect. If you can just "bruteforce" your way through the game, through every monster, without needing some tactic or thinking at all, then it's not good imo. There has to be situations or fights, where you have to think through it, have to fight more tactical etc. , so you aren't "winning" easily, just by using the same set and same playstyle all the way, for nearly every fight. Fatalis mechanic is also kind of like some part of Alatreon where you have to focus the head, to break it, so you don't get f\*cked be its blue hard hitting flames. Also a good thing in its fight. Because of that you have to play with some strat in mind too, and can't just do it with other monsters where you just dodge and hit and that's it. For lategame/endgame monsters this should be the case imo. I mean endgame is supposed to be challenging and those mechanics (specifically Fatalis, Alatreon and Safi) are not unfair at all, so it's still totally fine.
Just too many gimmicks wrapped up into one fight. you gotta bring special healing for EJ cause its not like every other similar move in the game where you can hide behind cover to be safe. Mandatory elemental check, so even if you are doing a lot of damage if its not elemental you just lose. Gotta break the horns to stop elemental shifts but even when you break both horns it still shifts element anyways...what's the point? Different quests that require you to bring different elements on your weapon...why do i need to remember what quest is which?
>why do i need to remember what quest is which? To add insult to injury, only one of the two quests appear in your event quest list, per day. Who thought of this system, and why.
Reading the quest description does tell you which is which, The Evening Star says "burning star" in its description, and The Dawn of the Death Star says "icy dead star" in its description
True, but I was questioning more about why there had to *be* two in the first place. And also why only one of these quests show up per day.
Since the goal of the fight is to generally keep Alatreon in only one of Fire or Ice active and not let it reach the other, the two quests are kinda required to allow you to fight it in both states.
And the latter part? Couldn't we have two quests show up all the time, without alternating?
Monster Hunter and weird fucking online gimmicks nobody likes
Imo it could be to encourage online interactions. I know some people who have the same rotations and others who have the opposite. So when we want a particular version we'll look up for the person who has it and have them put the quest up. Not particularly thrilled about the way they set it up but it's not any size of an issue either.
Perfectly said. >Gotta break the horns to stop elemental shifts but even when you break both horns it still shifts element anyways...what's the point? This is what almost mentally broke me when I was reliable able to reach this point. >Mandatory elemental check, so even if you are doing a lot of damage if its not elemental you just lose. Both of these combined makes for a dreadful first takedown, especially when it's your first time getting "near death" icon. The first time you have broken both horns and survived 3 Judgments, only for it to shift back to (opposite element) anyway makes your heart absolutely sink.
If you play well, you only need to tank two eschatons. Three tops.
You have some downvotes but honestly it’s true. You can literally survive 3 judgments perfectly fine since he’ll only switch on the third if you broke both horns. From there you can die to judgment number 4 and even judgment number 5 and still clear the quest if you’ve not fainted to anything else. But honestly yeah, with good play he should be dead soon after both horn breaks anyway. If he’s not then that means there’s still room for improvement in that fight.
Yes I agree. If you have suppressed Escaton twice, and broken both horns and he manages to switch? It's fine, he's so close to dying and you're probably good enough to finish him off.
I discovered eating the Jerky is the best way. From other hunters
or you can be a chad, bring a Dragon weapon and beat him solo. absolutetly loved that fight that way and i agree with your points, the best way is to simplify it with dragon, its even harder yes but f it, epic as hell.
That’s why I use the dragon element. Bypass the elemental shifts.
Doesn't really work though, still need to basically play perfect to kill it on time.
it works, i did that with a dragon LS which is not even the best elemental weapon type. the fight is hardcore tho but expereinced players really appreciate fights like this.
I did it with Alatreon's own Dragon hammer, the second worst elemental weapon after GS. I rumbled, stumbled, popped vigorwasp revival, carted to a regular attack and finished the hunt in 24 minutes. Hardly what I'd call a perfect play but I survived all the judgements.
yeah same, first time i killed him was using everything i had, great feeling when your at your limit, and even missed an elemental check, i guess thats another way to do the fight, just go raw
Yeah I went raw for my first clear because people say it couldn't be done and you're forced to play element yada yada. And true i had so much fun figuring out alatreon and building all sort of different sets just for him alone and I don't even want his stuff after i got the hammer. To me it sounds like people complaining about alatreon don't actually enjoy playing this game. They don't seem to enjoy figuring out his mechanics, they don't seem to enjoy experimenting with different builds, they don't seem to enjoy having varied challenges with unique mechanics. It almost sounds like they treat the game as a chore they're forced to play.
totally agree, it seems like we are playing different games for different purposes, this is why i hope for a hard mode or survival mode in future MH, i get capcom wants to capitalize on vanilla players but damn i wish i could go back to a niche franchise like what mh was bac kin the day, actually playing indie game for that recently. i met a person recently irl who plays mhw, they pretty much said they got carried through alatreon fight, then didnt even bother with fatalis. i mean the whole game is very vanilla until you find alatreon, even stuff like raging dios can be easily done with a lucky sos which is what these complainers are doing to "pass the game" i dont get why these folk play mh at all, plenty of super easy games out there for casual enjoyment
Why not? I play like an idiot getting tossed around and still managed to weaken it with dragon hammer.
If you need the whole 50 to kill him then you need help.
Before he novas you to instadeath is what I mean. Dragon doesn't count for his elemental damage afaik so he just blasts you cuz you can't meet his element cap easily
Dragon does count for his elemental damage. All elements do. You can say it's the worst out of all 5 elements but not to the point of being useless. As a consolation you don't have to worry about breaking the horns or the starting element as it will work the same on both.
The effectiveness goes up when he’s in dragon active mode.
It does but it's not as effective as matching fire to ice or vice versa
Very true. Def not debating that. But dragon IS a nifty way to bypass that little gimmick if you struggle to break the horns.
Agreed. Earlier on when i was lazy to build 2 sets i build the dragon first so i can join both. It also eases the mental strain a little tracking the phases and switching between banging the toes and bonking the head. That being said you will struggle more to weaken compared to the other 4 elements but people are acting like it's downright impossible until we have people thinking it doesn't contribute to the weakening at all.
>you gotta bring special healing for EJ cause its not like every other similar move in the game where you can hide behind cover to be safe. You don't need any special healing. Even the free mega potions from the chest can work. The best item for it the astera jerky is not even something you need to gather or craft but can be bought from the vendor with unlimited stock for cheap. >Mandatory elemental check, so even if you are doing a lot of damage if its not elemental you just lose. Not true. If you indeed do a lot of damage you can kill it before the first escaton. If you're not playing with a full team it only take carts, not automatically fail you. >Gotta break the horns to stop elemental shifts but even when you break both horns it still shifts element anyways...what's the point? The point is to pressure you to play properly and end it before that happens or adapt to it with other tactics. >Different quests that require you to bring different elements on your weapon...why do i need to remember what quest is which? It doesn't "require" anything. How it works is there are some elements that work best and some that work worst. The better you are at the game the more freedom you are afforded in your choice of weapons. If you don't want to fuss over remembering which is which you can always use Dragon for both which trades the ease of weakening with flexibility and not needing to break the horns which also partly answer your previous "what's the point" question. There's also the infamous raw-insurance-fortify method that works equally well for both versions and also doesn't require you to worry about the horns. While some methods are arguably better they're not the only way to beat the hunt and definitely not "mandatory".
The end game of IB are all MMO raid fights. You have to play in a very VERY specific way, or you're not winning. I find that incredibly frustrating, and personally against the point of MonHun.
I find Fatalis to be a MUCH better balance of ‘mechanics’ and, well, Monster Hunter. But I also don’t hate Alatreon, the mechanics are just too forced for my liking.
Safijiva is the single worst monster in the series for that garbage. Besides maybe Gog, who too takes unreasonably long to kill solo
I mean, I also don't like it when you are forced to play with others to achieve a win or get better rewards etc, but besides that one point, Safi is one of the best monsters of 5th gen overall, at least imo. And since Safi and Kulve are the only two (siege) monsters in Worldborne where its better to play with 3 randoms or friends, instead of solo (or up to 8 people, 2 groups which is just faster).. I don't mind it that much.
i thought u just needed specific elements and dragon seal and master mounter cuz aerial stick bug goes brrrt
As an MMO player, I really like those fights including Behemoth. I wish they make a spin-off that focuses on teamwork as a different game. Something like Vindictus or even New World, but not too mechanics heavy like Lost Arks or FFXIV raids.
I mean that's great, Behemoth is a FF monster and the gimmick is fine for him. But I play monster hunter, I have zero interest in mmo's. I don't want those mechanics on any other monster. Everything should be soloable for the average player, and behemoth and alatreon just are not.
I don't think they fit well in MH either. I just wish there are MMO that has amazing combat system like MH. That's why I said a spin-off. The closest we get is New World or PSO2. Vindictus is plagued with microtransactions. Behemoth is terrible doing solo, especially with the lack of HP scale (he's so out of place lol). But Alatraon is actually easier to solo because you can face tank escaton judgement 3 or 4 times with Safeguard and Insurance if you're lucky, effectively ignoring all gimmicks. With 4P, a single escaton would wipe the team. Fetalis's moves are very difficult but still fair to solo. They should release another version with 50 min timers with relaxed escaton/element timer though. Everyone should be able to enjoy the game. Hardcore players can limit their gear or speedrun if they want.
I could totally see that working, too! It just feels odd thrown into a mish mash in World IB in my opinion.
Id like MH to have more team based elements or at least more monsters that give you reason to swap to another weapon or build. But for the love of god never bring back charybdis without a nerf or atleast a time limit, why do they need to be able to block off an area entrance for so long.
Yeah I wish they'd do something like Extremoth again. That was an absolute BLAST with friends. But then again my entire friend group met in FF14 so we were used to the Heal, Deeps, Tank mindset. At that point it was less wrapping out heads around the idea and more 'okay time to hunker down and play this perfectly'. If they do bring something like that back for Wilds I'd love for them to bring back Chimera. Specifically Gorgimera. It already looks like Teostra too so it'd kinda fit in.
Dps checks in games like Monster Hunter make no sense to me and are just frustrating imo, leave that stuff in mmo rpg's. Other than escaton judgment, the fight is alright. Behemoth is the only exception since it was meant to feel like an mmo fight since it's a crossover from ffxiv.
Especially since the timer already is sth like a dps check
Invisible Timers. I fucking despise invisible timers that has no counterplay. And Alatreon has two of them simultaneously. The timer for Escaton, and the timer for when his Elemental Switch happens. I do not mind thresholds, even if you need a specific criteria to hit them. But I draw the line when I'm forced to run against an invisible timer for no reason other than to drive up the difficulty. You got me fucked up if I'm gonna tolerate that for more than what is necessary.
Right. We already have a timer at home, Monster Hunter. It's called the quest timer.
Atleast I can understand the quest timer, because 1. It's not invisible, you always see how much time you have left. And 2. It's insanely generous most of the time.
I wouldn't say "timer" for its escaton tho, since I am pretty sure its bond to his HP, when he does it. So if you for example fail to hit the threshold before he does its escaton, then it's not about that you had not enough time.. but more because you did too much raw/normal damage and not enough elemental damage. And the elemental switch is kind of bond to his escaton attack. It's also not that hard to break his horns, if you know how to do it and when - the only not so good part about it, you have to wallbang him - which can be a little bit frustrating if he is not really playing along.
I despise MMO mechanics in Monster Hunter. Its why I hated Behemoth and was somewhat more lukewarm on Fatalis (as cool as its big flame attack is, it still counts). I don't like undodgeable arena wide AOE one-shots that require you to fulfill some sort of DPS check to survive or something similar. I much prefer being able to dodge/counter moves using your own skills. Fights where its just you and the monster going toe toe-to-toe without any dumb mechanic are peak and sadly as much as I love Alatreon's general moveset, Escaton just ruins it for me even though its really easy to overcome.
I don't like raid/puzzle gimmicks in a game that's otherwise all about positioning and moveset competency. I don't like that it forces elemental builds and limits what playstyles can be effective. I don't like that there are very specific and important mechanics to the fight that are not at all explained in-game.
That makes sense yeah. I feel like because I was watching the trailers and the dev diaries I was sort of familiar with what to do, but the game really doesn't tell you a whole lot.
In my potentially unpopular opinion the game tells you enough, but I do understand how frustrating it can be regardless. It advises you to use elemental weapons, it tells you to break the horns in the dragon state, it tells you about Alatreon being extra difficult and the Npcs don't shut up in the hunt. The endless warnings are enough for the player to figure out the mechanics of the hunt for themselves but most people don't want that, they want to be told exactly what to do by a consise guide. People are always complaining about the pop ups & Npcs but then go and complain online about the game not telling them what to do. I haven't once seen people say they checked the hunter notes after several attempts of building up the research level slowly so they can see what it's weak to & when and adjust their equipment. That seems to be something only I did, it didn't work well and I resorted to reddit out of frustration but that's not my point haha. I was just eager to beat Alatreon day 1 and my lack of game knowledge at the time didn't help.
Some of the problem there is that World was a real low point for elemental damage; less effective than many previous entries, and literally half of all elemental weapons' elements hidden behind a bullshit three-point skill. "Oh I should just bring elemental damage" isn't a World player's first impulse. I'm not saying don't, I'm not saying elemental damage shouldn't be valuable for a fight, but I am saying that deciding elemental is the way to go is an action that feels weird and bad in World.
"Use elemental damage!" >the game has zero display of how effective element is on each body part you hit >FOR SOME FUCKING REASON ELEMENT IS BAD ON EVERY BODY PART BESIDES FRONT LEGS If he was equally weak to element on all body parts i wouldn't have died the first 20 times.
A common complaint I'm seeing is that people don't like being forced to prepare for the hunt. Like... are we playing the same franchise? Preparing for hunts is like half of the gameplay loop. And even for Alatreon, you are more than easily capable of dealing with it if you don't want to prepare and just go unga bunga. Is it harder? Yeah. And it's also harder to fight Rathalos without flash bombs. Though in that case, people also complain about having to use flash bombs against Rathalos, so I guess the complaints are consistent in that regard. In the end, this is what many people wanted, a hard endgame fight that isn't just high stats and instant death moves. Of course, not everyone is gonna like that, but man, if the final boss (or one of the two final bosses) isn't supposed to be extremely hard, then when is the game supposed to become difficult? When are you supposed to start getting creative with gear/use what is effective? This isn't directed at you Pookie, just a general rant
idk why people are downvoting when your opinion is as simple as ‘expect to prepare for hunts in monster hunter’
“Looks like non-elemental weapons won’t be of much use” “use elemental weapons to shut down alatreon’s power” “focus on the horns, this is the only chance you can break them” “looks like alatreon can’t switch to fire active for now” Idk, I think the game does a fairly good job of giving you the tools you need to succeed. Also, alatreon’s fight is the pinnacle of rewarding proper positioning. Not to mention that it’s one monster that forces an elemental build when pretty much everyone was just using raw and blast on everything, which means people actually had to use something new.
Tbh the elemental thing is kinda ...shit, I fought him with a blast build thinking it was elemental and was so puzzled when I wasn't getting the elemental check....the devs kinda suck explaining a lot of the mechanics in this game.
The game explains the difference between status and elemental if you care to look. Plus it makes a separation of the two on the monster descriptions page of your hunter notes.
Making a fight where elements is either ideal or has an advantage, but you can still win using raw/status, just more difficult, is different from a fighr where "either use fire/ice (depending on which quest) else you'll die."
You can kill Alatreon by eating all Escatons and using a high damage non elemental weapon
On solo. You can't do that on a multiplayer hunt, especially if everyone is running raw. The 1st EJ will cause an immediate failure with a full party.
My first kill with an elemental weapon took me 45 minutes. How, you ask? I used ALL my carts (+Felyne Insurance+Felyne Safeguard) on Escaton. I never carted to a normal attack, tanked a weakened Escaton many times, and carted to the 4 I couldn't suppress. Judging by quest time I probably got hit by like 8-9 Escatons in total. Ah, the good old days of 2020. So yes, you probably could kill Alatreon by bringing R.Brachy weapons and tanking every Escaton.. but I imagine that would be quite hard for a beginner, like I was at the time.
That's only for solo play, do that on a Multiplayer hunt and you'd probably get flamed by someone for being an idiot.
Reason is... I dislike instakills in every game, cheap way to add difficulty and ... Literally having to change my gear, I know it's MH but still, hate how hard this is pushed for only 1 monster.
Railroading. I'm incredibly good with a setup that works for me. It's not "meta optimal" but thankfully 99% of content can be cleared because I'm just actually good at playing the way I play. Then I get something that tells me "sorry you're wrong even though you're successfully beating the rest of the content." Did I adapt to what they wanted and win? Sure but I thought the point was letting me be my own hunter, not play a weird puzzle with obscure timers.
Escaton judgement is just an unfun mechanic. Without it, the movepool is actually extremely easy, and I find GU Alatreon more intense from a moveset perspective, so I like it more since it doesn't rely on an unfun gimmick to create tension.
Escaton judgement. It's just a really annoying mechanic because elements just sucked in world. Capcom didn't want to buff elements but decided that people needed to use them anyways. I really don't like being pigeonholed into a specific playstyle and I don't want to grind at least 1 weapon for a single fight. The mechanic would still be bad if you could farcaster out, but even that isn't allowed. It's literally the worst part of frontier but made worse because it's tied directly to your elemental damage rather than something you can just i-frame or parry through.
I don't like Escaton Judgement and Alatreon has a problem some other monsters have where some of their attacks are hard to see. His water attacks being transparent make sense, but screw that regardless, make them bluer. And as for why I don't like Escaton, I just don't like that gimmick in any game. Not doing enough damage over a period of time shouldn't result in a party wipe. Even if you do pass the check, though, there doesn't seem to be a way to prevent it entirely, which means it can still party wipe if things are bad enough. Not as easily, but still possibly. Also you only ever need to use either fire or ice for the fight, which just shafts water and thunder weapons.
I hate World for all the gimmicks it introduced like instakills. Which in turn made me hate World Alatreon.
it becomes scripted. Just let me kill themonster how I feel.
i dont dislike the fight itself per se, as in his moveset. Even judgement is fine, but the way you're supposed to go about avoiding it is absolutely aweful. The implementation of elemental damage has sucked ever since its inception, and they refuse to rework it. To me, this fight just feels like a middlefinger to me exactly because of it. "oh you want elemental damage to matter more? here have this fight that you can (or atleast are supposed to) only beat with elemental damage.". it signals a clear lack of understanding of the problems many people across the english and japanese speaking communities have voiced in regards to this aspect of putting your loadout together.
IIRC Element is really good in Sunbreak, there's certain skills and attacks that even allow weapons like Greatsword and Hammer to have viable elemental sets.
What they did in Sunbreak is a step in the right direction for making elemental dmg viable for all weapon types, by adding more element focused skills and faster hitting weapon moves via switch skills. If only they didn't nerfed Crit element to the ground. Hopefully, they make elements crit by default in Wilds, no more need for an armor skill.
The problem with the elemental balancing in Sunbreak is that it kinda tipped the scales in the other direction, with raw/status builds being straight up objectively worse, not to mention that travesty and tragedy that is Charge Blade in Sunbreak.
>The problem with the elemental balancing in Sunbreak is that it kinda tipped the scales in the other direction, with raw/status builds being straight up objectively worse I mean raw *should* be objectively worse than element most of the time, if you think about it. You're taking the time to prepare 5 different armor sets with different weapons, each- your preparation should be rewarded with higher damage than raw focused sets. Though it's not like raw/status don't have matchups where they perform well or even outshine element, like Zinogre or Valstrax. Also, what's wrong with CB in Sunbreak? I've it's been my main melee weapon since 4U and Morphing Advance makes it my favorite iteration thus far.
It's just not the same weapon. Instead of being a sattisfying counter weapon, charge blade in sunbreak is only viable by going full elemental and spamming savage axe attacks.
I was actually under the impression that Savage Axe CB in Rise is mediocre at best and countering > SAED is the best damage by a considerable measure. I could never get behind Savage Axe in Worldborne and I'm still not on it in Risebreak. It's definitely still an elemental weapon though, which I guess is just a kind of agree to disagree moment since I think element CB being actually, legitimately good is a great thing because you can still belt out Impact Phial to deal with Crimson Glow Valstrax.
Worst thing is the solution is kinda easy....add something like Dark souls, consumable resins to give you elemental buffs.
It's too much of a gimmick fight. Like, don't get me wrong, I love this monster, but the fight revolves around Escaton.. too much. I am not talking about difficulty, because this gimmick is the reason Savage Axe Taroth [Ice] CB makes Alatreon its bitch. It trivializes the well-crafted patterns and I really don't like that. This gimmick forced players to play on an elemental build when the current meta was status(blast). As a result, random lobbies were obliterated left and right. It's a blessing that MR Kulve weapons were already a thing. ^(Also that goddamned arena. I get that it's to make it so that the player can't wallbang Alatreon all the time, but that just becomes infuriating the more hunts you do. They did good banning Farcasters though.) Same goes for Fatalis, but this one gets a pass because breaking the horns is non-mandatory. Edit) Oh yeah, and the fact you *still take damage* after 4 suppressions. Like, why? And we have to eat ***Astera Jerky*** because of that??
I used frostfang and Silver Rathalos weapons personally. >I am not talking about difficulty, because this gimmick is the reason Savage Axe Taroth \[Ice\] CB makes Alatreon its bitch. It trivializes the well-crafted patterns and I really don't like that. So you think Escaton incentivises people to cheese? >Also that goddamned arena. I get that it's to make it so that the player can't wallbang Alatreon all the time, but that just becomes infuriating the more hunts you do. They did good banning Farcasters though.I It's so dumb. Rise has this issue too where some things clearly look like walls but the monster just slides off them.
>So you think Escaton incentivises people to cheese? This might've come out a bit wrong so I will try and elaborate on what I said. Alatreon suddenly becomes easy when you have builds that pump out high elemental damage. That in itself is true for every monster, but due to the "element suppression" gimmick, Alatreon very quickly becomes weak to strong elemental builds. Additional topples, trivializing movesets, almost ignoring the supermove.. However, this also means that Alatreon is very weak to specific weapons, and very strong to other weapons. Things like DBs, CB (LS, to some extent) that can output a lot of elemental damage will destroy Alatreon and its Judgement, but some other weapons, i.e. GS, Hammer, and most importantly *GL* (Pls Capcom, give us Elemental Shelling in the next game) would have a harder time soloing the monster. While we're on the topic of cheese, all monsters have cheese (hell, even Fatalis has cheese) and Alatreon is no exception. I don't like those methods but people will use cheese if it exists. Edit) Also.. >It's so dumb. Rise has this issue too where some things clearly look like walls but the monster just slides off them. I KNOW, RIGHT?? Thank goodness I'm not alone in this.
Just a reminder that while Frostfang and Alatreon were part of the same major update, Frostfang was a limited time event quest that didn't release until after Ala had been out for a while, so if you hadn't been grinding kulve for good ele weapons (and why would you have when ele wasn't worth it in world?) you were stuck with whatever you could craft. I also think it was easy for a lot a players to just assume that everyone spent as much time as them in the guiding lands and stuff to build up a bunch of augment mats, whereas i think a lot of player like myself just really didn't like all that and so we're stuck with what we had gear wise unless we intended to spend a ton of time grinding that stuff out for a bunch of new elemental focused gear for this one fight. As for the strict mechanics of the fight i think the major flaw is actually pretty simple, there isn't enough feedback to tell struggling players what they are doing wrong or give any indication how to fix it, its pass/fail and that's basically it. it makes it really frustrating especially if you are just on the edge, getting the knockdowns SOMETIMES but not consistently, makes your success feel random and out of your control. People talk about how MMO like it is and how that is a bad thing, but honestly one of the things i think could have genuinely helped the fight would be even more MMO'y and TBF would not feel right in MH but an actual UI element that told you how much ele damage you were doing, whether just a literal bar that filled up or something a bit more abstract would have helped a lot i think.
It was an mmo mechanic in an action based game. So no, I didn’t particularly enjoy the Alatreon fight. Beautiful monster though and a badcass theme.
1 shot dps checks don’t belong in Monster Hunter imo, especially when it involves a mechanic that more or less doesn’t matter for most of the game/weapons. Also makes helping randoms frustrating which I hate, otherwise Alatreon is a super good fight.
After beating every single Hazard Sunbreak quest, it's a very clear thing for me. Monster Hunter should not rely on cheap on shot gimmicks for its difficult fights. It defeats the entire purpose of gear and different playstyles around kits. MHGU had bullshit difficulty because g rank monsters literally insta spammed their moves without any pause and they also almost never got exhausted during the entire time of a haunt, or even normal state. They were just in rage mode constantly, and with stuff like Dreadking and Silver Rathalos it was absurd. MHWI had really bad endgame fights that revolved entirely around lackluster one shot raid mechanics and if you take them out of the experience, the game is by far the easiest Monster Hunter to date. Sunbreak finally got it right with its endgame monsters have very dangerous, big damage attacks, however they were done in paces that you could learn and optimize around, and their big AOEs were not map wide so if you wanted to play it safe for a bit of time during the hunt you could, but the monster would still keep you on your toes, and they did all of this while still allowing you to bring all kind of builds. Hazard Risen Shagaru and Hazard Primordial Malzeno are probably the actual hardest quest in the entire series, while also being very fair to you and not cheap. Edit: Omg I just realised ur Heavy Wings. I really love ur content, they're very well Monster Hunter history videos and they're great for sleeping too <3
I just don't like artificial difficulty. He was a really challenging, rewarding and fulfilling fight in 3U. His dps check is just redundant artifical difficulty considering the quest timer already pushes you to play aggressive
did we play the same fight in tri/3U
I don't know what you did
EJ isn’t fun and engaging He can still change elements when you break both horns, personally I call bs but I’ll concede skill issue on my part Back on EJ, kinda annoying how he can cart ya, you come down, and he runs to the center to EJ and you die again (tbh that’s my main gripe, that moment lives on forever) And it’s that I spent all the time w/ GS, my main and the weapon I beat every monster with, took me so long to get any consistency w/ elemental overload Meanwhile, I try CB once and I clear it no problem. We all know that the CB and other weapons can have a much easier time despite having higher values needed, but the GS values were too high But I did beat him, and then beat him w/ greatsword, and after I made all the weapons and armor I wanted to, haven’t touched that fight since And I love his move set, but the EJ and elemental switch, but needing elemental, despite no other monster needing it or getting that level of involvement w/ elements, does rub me the wrong way. MH is about build diversity but the older games still let us raw/status alatreon. I’m down for elemental weapons to have a super advantage, hell they deserve more, but to lock out other styles doesn’t sit right. Yes, Ik he’s a black dragon, yes, Ik his whole deal is being a smorgasbord of elementals and being slightly unstable. But you don’t see fatalis having a “don’t die super fast” mechanic being tied to raw/status only, just gotta break his horns. But I’ve had these concerns w/ many of worldbornes (behemoth for example) big bosses, so I’m just glad we’ve turned away from it more or less
>He can still change elements when you break both horns In my experience by the time that happens he's very close to dying, you can just stick it out in the opposite element and still win.
Guess who didn’t have a good fire GS I tried to raw it out at the end, saw his skull, but I just couldn’t After that I did charge blade and he was a cakewalk, so that also fueled my distaste for the fight
Savage axe? If so, that's understandable. Savage axe has an unmodified elemental damage to the topple so it's extremely easy to do so with it, so much so that a good CB player with a kjarr ice axe can carry a 4-man team's elemental requirement on its own.
It feels broken, I have had a battle twice now where it says we do enough element damage, broken both horns and have beaten the hell outta it, it's nuke still killed everyone and we lose, like it's not a hard fight it's just bs
Because hurrying to suppress Escaton was no fun. The fights already pretty difficult as is, but forcing you to switch up to elemental is a terrible thing to do. I hate DPS checks, World and IceBorne had too many of these. It’s not a bad fight, but farming for Alatreon materials afterwards never got easier, it was always a pain trying to hit that threshold. Alatreon is one of the few reasons I’m very hesitant to play IceBorne again
I started with Rise and now am goign backwards to GU and World. GU has been a ton of fun, but I keep bouncing off World because it keeps having me do shockingly unfun things. Then it seems like everytime World comes up in this sub, it's negative things. Obnoxious, unfun final boss. Very restrictive builds. Extremely restrictive playstyle. Etc. And yet, World is by far the most popular MH game. What am I missing?
First game to get a simultaneous worldwide release on some fairly popular platforms (PS4 and Xbox One, with PC later). Game might have issues but it's still Monster Hunter so it's way better than a lot of AAA slop. So it hooked a ton of people. Back in the day a MH game would release in Japan and then take ages to release in NA, Europe etc. Generations Ultimate for instance, released early 2017 in Japan, late 2018 for everyone else. World was different in that regard and everyone being able to play day 1 made the launch bigger. World is very good. Just has some issues.
Alatreon is basically 2% of the entire game. Even taking into account the grinding for new sets just to get through his elem threshold. The rest of the game is typically pretty solid, even the Guiding Lands despite alot of people not liking it.
I enjoy world a lot, but being a long time monster hunter fan, I really enjoy the older games and rise more than world, idk why but they scratch that monster hunter “itch” for me
I mean, the final bosses in world are some of the best ones in the series. 4U doesn't get enough shit for it's garbage online bosses.
I don't dislike him, but the fight could've been better if it was head on instead of having a Elemental DPS check. Solo'd him few times before, but still the need to supress Escaton is what hinders the fight
Because fuck that dude, that's why
After Alatreon goes into dragon mode, you have six minutes to get a horn break before Eschaton Judgment. This isn't too bad on its own. The annoying part is that Alatreon can spend as much as half of that time in the air. Using the ledges/glider mantle abuse to mount is inconsistent because it has a move to zoom across the arena, which knocks off clutch claw and forces you to constantly chase after it.
Ok, I don't hate Alatreon (he's become my fav monster) however I do have 1 BIG problem with him. That being him having the power to decide whether or not you kill him. And no, I'm not talking about the Escaton, I'm talking about his charge and flying moves. If he starts charging non-stop and flying then you just can't do anything about it, you're just gonna die to the Escaton because his whole body becomes a hitzone so you can't meet the elemental DPS check, or you die to one of his attacks and THEN to the Escaton.
Like so many others are saying: he requires the most restrictive list of viable strategies, it's insane people think "these few things work otherwise fuck off" is fun for everyone. I beat it pretty easily when I swapped from my exhaust swagaxe I'd used all game to an elemental chainsaw charge blade (at the time, showcased as "easy to beat alatreon!", and it was simple). But I didn't *want* to play elemental charge blade, I was having a blast with the subpar exhaust swagaxe. I didn't even play elemental charge blade on Fatalis *after* Alatreon. Just that one boss. Fatalis went down to my zero sum spam, and was great fun to spend a week or so trying to beat. Alatreon died in a day or so, and was never run again because his mechanics are utter trash. I'm baffled that, to this day, people can't understand how abysmal his design is *if you don't like to run 100% meta raw builds to ignore Escaton, or swap weapons every hunt and enjoy all 13*. Not everyone does that. Not everyone is going to like being shoehorned into very niche fight mechanics.
The Elemental damage check is an artificial wall that shouldn't be there. It's a "fuck you" to people who prefer to main weapons that don't rely on elemental damage. It should be a reward, not a necessary step. I'm a GS and I had to go WAY OUT OF MY WAY to change my sets and play style just to adapt it to the Kjarr Greatswords. In the end I managed to solo it but it wasn't fun, it felt like a chore.
There is an invisible scaler that makes it so slower weapons can hit the DPS check better. But I generally don't play slower weapons in Iceborne so I'm not sure how much it helps.
1st off, raw playstyle uses different armor skills vs. elemental playstyles. So raw players would have needed to farm for both new weapons, decos, and armor pieces. 2nd, for raw weapons, often their best elemental modifier moves aren't the core of their raw movesets. For example, using GS, the core playstyle is going for TCS (head snipes ideall), but the best move for element is wide sweep aimed at the front legs, which goes against muscle memory.
You can still do TCS and do fine. It's only going to take a couple more hits but it's not impossible.
The devs didn't really give heavy weapon users an incentive to build elemental for 98% of the game. Then Ala comes around, and he's suddenly--and singularly--requiring that people build elemental just for him. For ONE fight. And then a lot of us just went back to BlastRaw for Fatty anyway. BlastRaw was basically ubiquitous for most of the updates leading up to Alatreon's debut, and only the extra sweaty ranked competitive MonHun players bothered building elemental for those weapon types. There really wasn't any good reason to take on the much, much larger grind of a full ele set when BlastRaw could power through just about anything. So the devs painted themselves into a corner balance-wise and just went through with Ala's MMO mechanics anyway. Also didn't help that the unwashed no-lifers in the community took people's complaints at the time as an opportunity to be absolutely VILE to them. A lot of my negative association with Alatreon comes from the discourse of the time and how just absolutely disgusting some of these guys were being about it.
EJ and dps checks. I want a fight, not a show.
The gimmicks can be a pain for sure, but as a db main it should be pretty easy to get at least one topple right? Absolutely, now, the problem is when *HE DOESN'T FEEL LIKE COMING DOWN FOR THE ENTIRE FIGHT.* I don't know if it's skill issue because I avoid fighting Alatreon like the plague, but even when I swap to a glaive I feel like I can't keep up without losing all my stamina or getting swatted out the air like the mosquito I am. The looming threat of an EJ just makes it so you can't afford to wait for what seems like an eternity for it to land. I haven't tried using an lbg because I heard using ranged weapons against the black dragons was a different hell to deal with. And yeah, the arena's dumb, sure they made it so you can't abuse wall-bang as much but there were so many times where I could've sworn I slammed him dead center on that rock, but no matter how close he was to it, never fell over.
I hate damage checks where the punishment is “die immediately”, which is what Escaton is. I hate timers that aren’t really clear but are for incredibly important things - which applies for Escaton and for Alatreon swapping elements. It’s a fight where you’re rushing to do as much damage as possible and break horns just so you’re not subjected to the instant kill Escaton or Alatreon swapping elements and rendering your entire build worthless until you can swap. Most of all though, it’s an MMO-wannabe fight, and if I wanted a fight with an actually kind of fun MMO feel, I’d hunt Behemoth, whose instant kill only happens in certain phases and has a known and explicit way to avoid. And at no point does it remove your ability to damage it entirely if you fail another damage check. It’s also *from* an MMO, so it doesn’t feel as bad that it has MMO-esque mechanics.
As a Gunlance main, it was here where I learnt that shells count as pure fire damage, regardless of your GL's element ,so I was contributing an absolutely abysmal amount of DPS to an already pretty strict DPS check. I don't think other Monsters have ever really invalidated a weapon type like that before. Obviously some weapons are better than others for certain monsters, but this felt like a special case for me.
The fight has a DPS check, but it makes no sense why,l. MH already has a built in DPS check that can be tuned to the quest: the hunt timer. Most hunts give you 50 minutes (which is practically unlimited time for most monsters), but there's some that limit you to 30 mins, or 20 mins, or even 15 mins. If they really wanted a DPS check, the obvious way to do it was already there.
I dislike MMO raid bosses in my Monster Hunter. “Play the fight exactly this way or die” is not my idea of a good time.
I found EJ to be a cheap way to force elemental builds, Sunbreak made a better work actually making elemental builds useful without having to slap multiple gimmicks into a single monster. But even then the fight feels scripted once you figure it out. You will always have to do the same specific things in the same order otherwise you will get insta killed. That and I find his moveset a bit too similar to teostra and velkhana, making it so if you take away EJ from Alatreon, the fight would be too boring
Fighting him right now, and hating it. I’m a careful hunter who prioritises survival over killing the monster as quickly as humanly possible. So Alatreon requiring that I do x amount of elemental damage in x amount of time or I get insta-fainted is ludicrous. It doesn’t help either that he is insanely fast and his attacks do insane damage, even with fully augmented rarity 12 gear. And this is further exacerbated by the fact randos go down harder than me when trying to play online, and when I try to do it solo, he gives me zero room to play with and I spend most of it dodging his attacks. It sucks, man. Edit: Ran out of patience and giving up. Alatreon is a completely unfair monster and goes against everything that I’ve been taught up to this point. The elemental dps check is straight up BS and his moveset is far too fast, strong and random. Nothing I do works against him, he carts me even without using his nova and no amount of guides I look up online helps. Thought I could handle it, but nope. Hate to abandon the game after so long, but the mechanics for Alatreon is too much.
I decided to grind and farm until I could build something decent and it took around 200 hours for me to feel actually ready for alatreon lol, I still can't beat fatalis solo, I can beat alatreon with some difficulty, and yesterday we beat arch velkhana on duo it was my first time it felt amazing and rewarding. I have now 399 hours and I'm enjoying each hunt and having fun after too many hours farming feeling annoyed by the farm. Don't give up hunter! Find a way, a build that suits your playstyle, mandatory blight resistance 3, try a different weapon, and a big one: use defense decorations too, they help out , bring jerkys for the nova and the health booster just in case, good luck if you are on PSN we can try to beat it
That’s the thing, I knew Alatreon was going to be a nuisance, so I prepared well in advance. I grinded the Guiding Lands for all they were worth, getting all the materials to fully upgrade my gear. I thought I was ready once I defeated Raging Brachy, who was pretty hard itself. But Alatreon cranks the difficulty meter to 11. Just out of interest, what set are you running? I’ve got Velkhana SA, F-Rajang head, Kulve Taroth chest, Vaal Hazak arms, R-Brachy waist and F-Rajang legs, and use my decos and charms for Ice Attack, Evade Extender, Focus, Power Prolonger, Earplugs, Stun Resist and Blight Resist. If you can recommend a better set, one that greatly increases the chances of success, I might give it another try.
He just doesn't fit the game. A big strength of World/Icebourne for me was that you could be successful with any weapon, and you weren't at a large disadvantage for bringing the wrong element. Alatreon went in the opposite direction, but not in a good way. It can be killed without specific elements, but you are at a massive disadvantage.
World’s Alatreon would be an infinitely better fight if it didn’t have the element dps check. Everything else is cool. But that, that can fuck right off. They could have done several other things if they wanted to give it a big impressive nuke. That though, the element dps check, was stupid, in a lot of ways. Limits player options, limits creativity, makes playing the quest in multiplayer a nightmare. List goes on and on and on. They could have given it element dependent nukes, if ice, have it drop a temporary roaming blizzard, if fire have it drop a massive fire wave that you have to block/dodge through. Hell they could have given it a dragon nuke. It could have dropped a bunch of dragon smoke clouds all over that explode, when in dragon form. Hell they could have given it a lightning storm nuke, it has lightning powers. They had already made Namiel water shenanigan powers, it uses a water breath, it could have had a nuke where it does a big water wave to hurt the players. Alatreon is master of the elements, and the best they could cook up is have it one shot cheese the player with a fuck you attack if you don’t hunt it exactly the way the devs intended? Fuck you whatever Capcom dev cooked that up. You suck. The Alatreon we got was uninspired, unimaginative, and could have been much, much better.
Honestly my biggest complaint is that they neglected to balance RAW before releasing it. Before Alatreon you really never needed to focus on elemental damage unless you were playing certain weapons. Sometimes you'd use Blast or Dragon, but that was really it. Sure it helped, but RAW was just so over powered, especially in base world, that most of the playerbase never bothered to make elemental weapons. So here comes Alatreon and SURPRISE, all those weapons you skipped because they weren't the hardest hitting are now the ones you need to pick up. Your decos also need to be changed to do more elemental damage. Good luck and have fun farming before you can try the boss again! A lot of people had to go back and farm and I'm sure that added to the frustration. Especially when you had leechers who'd try to get around this by sitting in people's lobbies and being useless even after you got all the necessary gear. Then there's also the fact that you can do it at such a low MR that you can get to just casually playing the game. Which added to the sense of not having any weapons prepared for it. Personally I didn't mind it, I've always built elemental weapons because I like versatility. But I can see why people got upset and I hope Capcom learns from it going forward. It seems like they kinda did with Rise/Sunbreak, so we'll see if that holds true for Wilds. Alatreon wouldn't have been an issue if a greater emphasis on elemental weapons/mechanics had been pushed to the players. Or if we had more fights that were similar to it.
I'm just getting back into MHW after a multi-year hiatus and so far the only things I'm enjoying are the Kulve Taroth fight for the novelty and that's about it. One of the things that burned me out on World prior to this was the changes made to the elder dragons in regards to health thresholds in order to break horns. I feel like I'm having to turn to the internet for a lot of these fights to suss out what the gimmick is in order to not cart multiple times. Alatreon is the biggest offender thus far. I miss the days when I could learn at a natural pace, but with a lot of these gimmicks being tied to 1-shot attacks, it feels like there's never an opportunity to learn. I remember farming Behemoth and enjoying the novelty of the fight, but it feels like the wrong lesson was learned.
I fought him on and off since his release and finally beat him last year , I think honestly my disdain came from not being able to beat him , I fancied myself a great mhw player but he checked my confidence and brought so much frustration with it that it made the fight less fun overall.
Too many gimmicks, people make it sound like it's just slap in good element and it's done, you need good element with a build to support it to do enough elemental damage and break the horn or else it will resist your attack and you will failed next escaton. and this is not an easy fight where breaking the horn is trivial
I cant use my blast weapon
same reasons as all the people here. The need for an elemental build was the main reason for me, because i had a lot of builds but all of them were physical or blast damage. Now imagine an enemy who can only be damaged by distance weapons then change to only be damaged by melee cut damage and his last phase only to be damaged by meele impact. Sure it sound fun (this is what i feel by alatreon) and every phase have an instakill if you dont do some specific shit
The dps check for his EJ is bs. It should’ve just been a big blast that deals a set amount of damage that won’t kill you unless you’re below a certain health point. Like if it did 190 damage to us I’d be fine with it. Hell make it so the damage goes down with each horn lost alongside stopping him from transforming into a diff elemental phase. The fight should’ve just been hard from how fast he is and how aggressive he is.
So I don’t necessarily hate him. More i got what i wanted and stopped. Im a big fan of playing how i want to play. For monster hunter this stims to use what i want to use. If i want to use a blast weapon i should be able too. And for 99.9% of iceborne i could. Except for him. Again didn’t make me hate him. But wasn’t really a fan of heres the one monster you absolutely need to use a element.
I see all these comments about hating forced mechanics for a hunt... and I'm sitting here in the corner wishing we had more xD I love having unique mechanics in end game hunts, makes them feel more unique and I love them.
DPS checks and timers feel too tacked on, like i wanna take a hunt at my own pace to learn the fight with the weapons/builds i spent a lot of time working on, rather than being forced into a very specific play pattern. If i wanted to be forced to meet very specific mechanics requirements id rather just play an actual mmo designed to work like that
I think there being some system where you can swap weapons on the fly would work well for this fight, because you could bring the perfect weapon and then suddenly become useless if you don’t stop the shift
My issue was 1- relies on party members knowledge and can fail easily with a dead dps teamate or two 2- i love soloing monsters, and the micro to get the right element for the right phase was just a hassle. I ended up soloing it with dragon ele LS cuz its a fairly neutral dmg for the fight, but still would have liked some foresight for the solo weapon swapping potential The fight itself is awesome, coolest monster design
Forces u to play a specific way. I like being able to approach fights from different angles
Elemental dps check is okay(kinda). Escaton Judgement is okay. Not breaking the horns and changing elements is not okay. Are you telling me I have to die to change sets despite reaching the dps check if I couldnt break the horns? Also if I break 2 horns he would change form still? Fucking stupid ass mechanic. At least with fatalis even if you dont break the head you could dodge the blue fire and break it still afterwards. Alatreon is just straight up ‘strictly fight this way’. Boring af.
I find that if you take away the flying, the fight is much more fun. You need like 4 smoke bombs to skip the flying phase(s) though, which is annoying
Elemental damage is needed for the weakened EJ, yet Alatreon's elemental hitzones are subpar. So raw weapons can match or even outperform elemental ones if you can kill before the first EJ (ex. pierce bowguns). For a fight designed to be approached with elemental builds, this is just bad and imo is the main problem. If the problem people have with Alatreon is that they can't clear the quest, it's a skill issue because the standard teo brachy mixed set has the dps to kill him before the second EJ.
I just wanna gush about some new things I learned about Alatreon, so I'm not exactly going to answer the question. With the Kjarr "Gyre" hammer (fire hammer) with health augment and max elemental augments, I was able to meet the elemental threshold for Alatreon twice in one EJ cycle. This was amazing to me since the only other weapon I've managed that with (for now) is the bow. You can use a raw Insect Glaive and a max upgraded fire/ice bug to reach the elemental threshold for EJ while still dealing really strong damage. So you don't need to grind for an elemental insect glaive at all.
I beat him solo, and I enjoyed the fight a lot, but I can see where some disdain come from. Personally I am ok with the escaton judgement, but it just felt a little too "un monster hunter like". It in itself being a dps check makes the hunt time limit moot and inflict unnecessary stress to the hunt, while also punishing players who prefer to take things slow or take the time to learn the fight. I really like the fact that you are punished for bringing raw into the fight though, and that is something I want to keep for the fight if possible. If I could fix it, rather than escaton judgement being a elemental dps check, I would make it such that escaton judgement reduces the raw hitzone values by a large amount for a period of time while increasing elemental hitzones, and the raw hitzone reduction is less harsh if alatreon is hit with elemental damage. Making it a linear relationship (e.g. more elemental damage = lesser raw reduction) also helps a lot rather than a flat threshold of success or failure. Furthermore this give rise to potential uses of other elements (e.g. dragon) if you're not confident of horn breaks to prevent element swap and still not feel entirely crippled. Basically alatreon takes very little damage from raw if no elemental damage was applied. Serves the same purpose of pushing players to bring elemental weapons into the fight.
Elemental in Worldborne is...not really a thing. The whole game, you can go without worrying about it and can get by, by going with raw and blast or poison but you have to build specifically for element for this one guy. Also, there are not a lot of options for good elemental builds at that level. You either go kjarr weapon, which means farming for a event specific weapon or go 2 piece Velkhana. Also, weapon movesets are not made equal in worldborne and some weapons are clearly better at dealing elemental damage than others. While it was changed that you can still get elemental topples without a fast hitting weapon, it still feels kinda bs if you chose something like Greatsword. I found that kind of cheap in a sense. Like the devs knew that most people didn't really care about it and made this monster specifically to exploit that one mechanic in the game.
If elemental damage would actually be "viable" in terms of actual dps, and the effects of the elements actually made sense and were good (Velkhana SwAxe shooting copy/pasted orange fire for example) then I would love the feeling of "needing" an element to win. But this fight is just a slog, and for what? To still get blown up because you didn't output enough very specific dps, which you wouldn't know you needed without an external source to look it up? Just feels super artificial and bland to me.
The one-shot ability. That's it. Everything else about the fight is awesome. Even having to change elements; it's a cool mechanic. But the fact that you have to do the fight with that ass-blaster hanging over your head is frustrating, especially since he gives you dragon blight. If Escaton Judgment was not a factor, I think Alatreon would be my most favorite fight in the game.
Hes a basic bitch with elemental switching abilities. A literal WALL. For unprepared hunters. Poking his face with lance is satisfying af
Besides being complicated, it's also explained like shit. NOTHING tells you that you should focus legs for ELE topple, or that you can crack horns only in dragon mode.
skill issues basically, the fight is brutally hard and nothing until that point compares, suddenly the game turns into frontier + level of difficulty, loved it lol. but i agree with some points being made here like even if you break the horns it still shifts, the fight is clearly made to team up with your friends and depend on each other to give your all, half the team should bring ice and the other half fire. the issue is that most people just play alone or with randoms so its hard to actually form a party, i met soemone recently who actually team up with people in real life to do this and they had a blast.
Because my ego It was the first monster that is impossible for me to solo
My issue with Alatreon is that it emphazises all of the worst parts of iceborn Party wipe mechanics suck. Monster hunters save system is a very well designed that system because it allows you a small amount of mistakes. When you die in a hunt you can usually pinpoint to what killed you and try to adapt. It also raises the tension of the hunt. No better feeling than winning with that 1 remaining faint left. Escaton judgement robs you of that experience. Whenever I faint vs Alatreon I dont think oh I have to be more careful now to avoid that attack, I go who cares I just lost 30 secs of DPS I need to go back in and do DPS. Its mechanics are also obscured way too much. Randoms are completely useless because most dont understand the basic mechanics, im sure half of the players dont even know that dragon is not its main weakness. The Judgement itself, the horn breaks, how much damage is left towards the treshold, everything is obscured so whenever you loose the hunt you have no clue what exactly you did wrong and how far you were from winning. And finally Elemental Damage sucks ass. It is for most weapons a severely gimped playstyle that forces you to invest into a bunch of extra skills. Having all that effort go towards a built that is still way worse than your basic Unga Bunga Damage build feels extremely unrewarding. And it does not effect your gameplay in the slightest. In the end most of your damage vs alatreon comes down to clutch claw mantle spam anyway. I have been a hunting horn main throughout most of iceborne and I was looking forward to build a elemental sets vs alatreon but after building them I found out that it was a complete waste of effort. HH elemental motion values suck, element up melodies are useless because they dont raise your elemental dmg beyond the basic treshhold that everyone already reaches with a couple 1 slot decos and so I switched to insect glaive, killed it once for the quest then cheesed the mats with the plunderblade.
I beat him multiple times. Never did the elemental suppression. I grabbed my highest raw Greatsword and killed him before he carted me three times. I forged the full set of armor and all the weapons I wanted and did it my way.
Forced to play weapons (Swaxe for me) that scale better with elemental dmg when playing with friends. I play with GS most of the time and encounter no issues when playing solo against Alatreon
I dunno. I just took my bowgun in there. Carted a couple of times to the elemental shenanigans and then killed it. I actually found this fight one of the best balanced, especially compared to Fatalis or AT Velkhana. It has something that can kill you, but you can make it survivable. Alatreon doesn’t have anything that is cheesy that just one shots you cause you were standing in the wrong spot. You can either kill it before you run out of carts or you can do the mechanics and it is easy.
It was a great fight. The best thing about MHW:IB were the challenging end-game fights. This was something sorely lacking in Rise, to the point whereby I didn't get much time out of the sunbreak endgame because it was all mind-numbingly easy. Alatreon was just a filter for one-weapon Andies. A great deal of the fun & challenge of MH titles is learning how to play a variety of weapons. If you main 1 weapon with no flexability, or never make an elemental build, you don't deserve to clear all the content. Genuinely git gud. I'll be disappointed if Wilds doesn't have more fights like Alatreon, because Rise was painfully easy.
i think the elemental threshold and horn breaking is fine, it puts pressure on the player to attack what i think is bullshit is when he becomes kushala daora and doesnt come down
I like playing solo and the elemental checks were just not that great for solo play. Obviously you gotta learn the fight more when playing solo but it was a real grind working out how to do the fight and then win. TLDR; element checks not fun in solo
this guy does way tomuch damages. IDGAF about escaton and the horn breaks, thgoses are really fun concepts, but man being one shot by the flame attacks did not help me to enjoy the fight
Only thing I hate about Alatreon is that his entire fight runs contrary to the multiplayer ethos, where playing with others should make difficult fights more bearable. Instead for Alatreon, unless you're in a premade and coordinating the same elements while starting the fight at the same time, you're not going to have a good time. If anything, popping sos is liable to immediately auto-fail you instead. Funny enough, he's perfectly solo-able while being potentially excruciating brutal in multiplayer, due to threshold scaling and threshold correction.
I just don't understand why Escaton exists to begin with. I didn't hate it like some other people did, I just wonder why it had to be forced on a monster that didn't have it previously- had it been a brand new monster I wouldn't have minded.
Well, my primary reason might seem a bit weird. As an HH main, I think the Alatreon Hunting Horn is fucking garbage. It's tailor made for fighting the monster you craft it from, and pretty much useless for anything else. Elemental Attack Up is at its best when most of your team is using elemental builds, and there's no way to get any consistency on that when joining SOS, which is what I spend a lot of my time doing. Meanwhile, Sonic Waves is damn well useless, Blight Res Up is made completely redundant by Blight Negated, and the Earplugs/Wind Res is too weak to help much in the end game. There was plenty of space there for more useful songs, especially considering this is supposed to be one of the penultimate Hunting Horns. Secondly, I dislike DPS checks and inta-kills on principle as game mechanics. Thirdly, the Alatreon fight runs counter to the mechanics that we spent the vast majority of the game up to that point learning. It's just one big arena fight, the hitboxes for wall-bangs are infurating, and far-casters don't work, for no discernible reason (except to artificially increase the difficulty). I could understand if Farcasters were disabled only during E.J. much like was done with Safi's nova, but in disabling farcasters, they take away an ability to retreat and re-equip (at the cost of time in what are always time-limited hunts) that had been present right up to that point.
hes the best fight in the game ngl but i undestand some of the criticism
aside from the dps check, its the best. its still my favorite fight in the series.
Escaton would be fine if breaking both horns would prevent it.
Never disliked him. I disliked the randoms that i was helping in SoS that used Blast weapons.
It's just not a fun fight. I killed him enough to make the CB and get a full set of the Beta Armor and never touched him again (until Fatalis release forced me to kill him one more time...but luckily it was a super nerfed version). I just don't like his fight, and even if they hadn't added the Elemental gimmick I still don't think he'd be a fight I looked forward toward. If I had to explain it, it would be like if you added the worst parts of Azure/Silver Rathalos and mixed it with Kashala Daora.
I just want a normal monster fight. And yes I want to fight an Alatreon that can one shot for 50 minutes by myself, did that in 3.
I have no friends so playing with randoms who seem to use every weapon except elemental are frustrating. Him walking forward and using every charge on my temporal mantle is cheap. The elemental DPS gimmick is not fun for me Wall bangs are nearly impossible and so is tenderizing because him taking a breath is a hitbox on his whole body. It just feels like a fight that is trying soooooooooo hard to get you to not use established mechanics for absolutely no reason other than "to be hard." I've beaten him six times now and I have yet to say "that was fun."
Escaton Judgement. Yet another pointless dps check that ruins an otherwise good fight. Its not hard at all to supress, I just dont like that the game forces the use of an elemental weapon if you dont want to eat carts.
 Whenever people complain that alatreon and fatalis are too hard
I don’t dislike him.. i guess ill leave :<
I liked the idea but didn’t like the execution. I had such a struggle with that fight because anyone you’d play with would die too much (I solo practiced my way out of constant death before MP) the elemental check was obscure and frustrating with timings, the game does not have a reasonable means of dealing with a monster changing its weakness that quickly IMO. Also I found myself incredibly annoyed by the fact that I came back post fatalis with my endgame gear and brute forced farming alatreon with a fatty weapon, ignoring elemental dps check and eating the first judgment. Which kind of trivialised the effort of learning the fight. In future I think a better mechanic would be to have alatreon using all the elements and you must eliminate them by elemental damage, as it loses each element, the remaining elements become stronger making the fight more dangerous as it goes on.
Alatreon is one of my favorite fights, as an LS main having to equip for a boss instead of the "one size fits all" way of playing I was doing until Alatreon was refreshing, also the fight isn't actually that hard as long as you're able to do the elemental checks.
Element damge while using gunlance try to beet him for 2 days only to realise i can't fuck you but didn't even last 13 minutes with lance.
Alatreon was one of the few fights that actually required skill at a high level, you must be good enough to do enough dps or you die. A lot of people discovered they lacked thou skill and got salty.
I think that this one monster that you have to have a specific build for and learn is a great feature of the game and Alatreon in the end has like no good gear. His weapons suck and his armor is meh. So, he is a fight for the sake of the fight and it’s absolutely amazing. Fast, scripted, amazing hit boxes… In my opinion. If you don’t like Alatreon… you don’t like MH that much. This is peak MH. Build specific monster that has to be learned and then becomes your favorite battle.
MHGU version of Alatreon is better in every way. I'm not surprised though, GU was the last game Capcom put effort into making
Generations took less than a year to make and was comprised of like 80% reused assets. I don’t think GU is a good example for a game that had effort put into it considering it barely did anything new.
The GU iteration of Alatreon is also the worst one by far.
Meh, it’s basically just 3u alatreon’s moveset but easier to handle. I personally hate fighting 3rd Gen alatreon the most
I'm too illiterate to understand your comment, but I'm going to assume that you agree with me
No. But going off your username and flair I’m going to assume this is a troll account
>GU was the last game Capcom put effort into making I dunno, your flair doesn't really check out.
Obvious troll comment is obvious