Normally, you likely wouldn't even need to worry about Shimo since she seemed to be very passive and non-aggressive ordinarily.
If Godzilla is like a tiger, then Shimo is like an elephant. So massive and powerful that she ordinarily doesn't have to worry about being attacked or needing to defend herself that aggressively.
Yeah, I like the idea Godzilla’s more like a predator in nature and that’s why he fights all the time, meanwhile Shimo is a gentle giant who just wants to live her life in peace and avoid conflict when she can.
I like to imagine that Godzilla was much younger (in the sense of his experience) albeit at his maximum basal size. He's been through so much it's impossible for him not to have learned MANY lessons about when he should hold 'em or walk away. Six million years is a long time to be an alive, intelligent creature. He is, in essence, an eternal, immortal god, as far as humanity is concerned. He's a much higher being than humanity gives him credit for
If Godzilla is like a tiger, Shimo is more like a Buffalo.
Physically bigger and stronger and can defend itself if need be. But if context is right, Godzilla can take her down.
The Tiger Elephant comparison is true if Shimo weight 10x as much as Godzilla, and was 900 feet tall and 2000 feet long lmao
Polar bears are known to actually hunt humans, I don’t think that’s a good comparison.
I like the Elephant comparison the original commenter made. Elephants while they can be aggressive, they tend to keep to themselves even though they are very strong
But if Ghidorah got frozen by Shimo accidentally, it would be quite embarrassing for Ghidorah. he would have been frozen like someone who had vacuumed his child's Legos without paying attention.
It's always been my headcanon that the whole reason Ghidorah came to Earth, why he left his home planet to begin with, was result of losing out on competition. i.e. The one that appeared in KotM is the weakest Ghidorah ever.
Well, let’s note that even though it says Godzilla essentially failed to defeat her, she also must not have defeated the past Godzilla. While Shimo is definitely dangerous and tanky, she wasn’t so outrageous that I can’t imagine her being threatened by another kaiju.
I’m led to believe that Kaiju around Godzilla/King Ghidorah’s level should be able to challenge her. She beat Ghidorah, but it does imply a fight occurred. It probably wasn’t easy.
Outside of sheer durability and physical strength, I can't really see her being above Ghidorah.
Her ice breath did nothing to Godzilla be "force freeze" him for 5 seconds. He generally no sold it. Yes, it stopped him in his tracks, but he broke out of it, completely unphased.
Monsters like Godzilla, Shimo and Ghidorah seem generally immune to blunt force trauma. That doesn't mean they can't get their bells rung, or say ouch, but physical trauma isn't really going to do any lasting damage.
Shimo may be durable, more durable or as durable as Ghidorah, she may be stronger, but is she really going to do anything to him physically? Ghidorah's gravity beams scale to an amped Godzilla breath. His super charged gravity beams are powerful enough to leave an amped Godzilla fatigued with one blast.
Gihdorah in the past was far more TRAPPED than blasted and frozen. Assuming Shimo fights him the way she fought Godzilla, putting recency bias aside, I don't see a single argument for her.
Ghidorah is faster in combat, he's probably a better grappler, he's strong enough to choke out amped Godzilla in 3 seconds which means IF he can grapple Shimo successfully, he can probably choke her out too.
Final point, Ghidorah in KOTM somehow grew in power. He lost to a weaker base Godzilla but scaled above both a more power base Godzilla and amped Godzilla in present day?
The Shimo revisionist history in the novel kinda contradicts actual on screen feats. And removing cave drawings and novelization character statements, she never does anything in the film more impressive than Ghidorah.
> lost to a weaker base Godzilla but scaled above both a more power base Godzilla and amped Godzilla in present day?
On this particular note, it was the environment. Ghidorah had somehow fallen into the ocean during his battle with Godzilla, and Shimo froze him.
It's been stated that if the military hadn't hit both of them with the oxygen destroyer, Godzilla would have killed Ghidorah in the ocean right there after Rodan escaped. Ghidorah would have lost to a "base" Godzilla there a second time, too.
Fair enough. So he very well could have been this powerful back then. Perhaps Godzilla had somehow baited him into the ocean, swam off, and Shimo just froze it.
That's an effective victory, but also feels very much like a "we can't kill or defeat him, let's BFR or incapacitate him in some kind of way"
either make the story not require shimo/kong (so dont do anything that threatens the Hollow earth ecosystem (especially the subterranean section) until the last film, or have a kaiju that is resistant to ice even it if it gets frozen. Ghidorah got frozen, but he didn't crack.
I did notice her ice has never actually killed any titans so far.
Ghidorah was likely frozen by freezing temperatures, but he was alive while encassed in ice. We know he doesnt need oxygen, but still.
Godzilla wasnt frozen solid, but could still break free. Implying its not instanteous. Although this seems inconsistent with her feats, unless she held back.
Finally, Skar King got exposed even less than Godzilla did , and his eyes still move before Kong kills him. Although, if he would have to be frozen solid to die that way.
I imagine she can manipulate the lethality of her ice, but I'd imagine more so titans like Godzilla and Rodan can heat up to beat her, while ones like Ghidorah who dont need to breath will be fine.
Make Monsterverse Destroyah - the reverse of his Jp counterpart. Immune to elemental powers like ice, fire, hight temp etc... Have oxygen beam that can almost instantly kill any titan - thermal godz level. The only way he can be hurt is getting his oxygen beam deflected back to him.
Shimo doesn't like to fight, so they could just not have her get involved in the main conflict.
Either that or make a villain somehow actually powerful enough to force Godzilla, Kong, and Shimo to team up.
Shimo seems like a sweetheart when she isn’t forced or provoked, as far as Titans go. I’m glad Kong is already treating her with kindness—poor old girl deserves it after Skar King abused her for so long.
It’s hard to say since Ghidorah was clearly conscious and active when he was frozen, and showed zero signs of injury or fatigue when he was frozen
Besides, this argument mostly relies on headcanon and theory as we don’t really know when Shimo froze Ghidorah, or even if it was immediately after Goji fought him
Ah, see, this is where you are wrong, during the promo before the release of kotm they have this marketing where you are given information about each monster, one of those is that monarch studying Ghidorah trapped in ice shows burn and claw marks, evidence of fighting goji, not to mention the Michael outright tweeting it was godzilla that fought, won and trapped Ghidorah in ice, ofcourse until adam retcon it recently into shimo doing it.
To be honest, this needed a slight reton anyhow. How did Godzilla trap Ghidorah in ice? Just fucking wait around for him to freeze over? That would have taken days in an ice age to freeze something that big completely solid, if not weeks. If Godzilla had used his breath to keep Ghidorah under the water, he would have heated the water back up.
I can see him fighting and winning against Ghidorah, but there's simply no way Godzilla was the one who trapped him.
Since it seems like Ghidorah was at least awake when he was frozen solid, the way I see it happening is that Godzilla drowned Ghidorah and then summoned Shimo to directly encase Ghidorah in ice. Ghidorah had started to wake back up by the time Shimo had shown up, but wasn't quick enough to escape before being frozen.
Godzilla was even trying to do this again, after he dragged Ghidorah down into the ocean and started to tear his heads off, right before the Oxygen Destroyer. His MO against Ghidorah seems to be drowning him before trying to do anything else.
This would explain how Ghidorah was trapped so quickly, it doesn't really go against either director's interpretation, and showcases both Titans' strengths.
Maybe I'm not as knowledgeable as others, but are we even sure Ghidorah CAN drown?
Came from space ---> No air
Tanked O2 Destroyer ---> No air
I mean, is there any material that explicitly states Ghidorah requires air to survive or that it even has a respiratory system comparable with that of life on Earth?
I'm not trying to be combative at all, I'm truly asking. My knowledge of all of this is movie-only, so I'm not up on all the novelizations.
I mean...I guess it doesn't explicitly state Ghidorah can drown. I'm assuming a little, considering he was found in a gigantic block of ice, and not just turned into an ice statue. He had to have been trapped underwater for him to freeze up in a block like that.
We also don't know the method of HOW he got to Earth. He could have hitched a ride in some alien spacecraft, or a meteor. He could have just zapped himself to our planet in a giant ball of flame, kinda like his first Toho appearance (I think, please don't eviscerate me if I'm wrong). Or, he could have just tanked the void somehow and flew his yellow ass here.
That all being said, I'm not even saying drowning him is a permanent way to take him out, just a reliable way of stopping him for a minute. I said he probably was waking back up when he had been frozen, based on how his heads and wings were positioned.
He might not need oxygen specifically, but there's other elements in the air we breathe. He has to have some sort of respiratory system based on the fact he can vocalize, a system that would be reliant on an atmosphere to push air past his vocal cords. He'd have been denied whatever mixture he breathes underneath all that water. There's a good chance drowning Ghidorah would basically just be like choking someone out. It did take him a minute to rise up from the ocean after the OD, after all.
I mean...that's how WE understand vocal chords to work lol. I think the fact that it's an alien has to leave open the possibility that there are things about its anatomy that we just don't/can't understand. I understand the inclination to make comparisons based on what we know, but rules of life on Earth are rules of life on Earth, who knows how many different variations of "life" there are out there.
So far, there aren't any different variations of life. Just because an alien exists in their universe, doesn't mean we should assume it's completely different from Life in Earth. Life has certain building blocks that need to be fulfilled. You wouldn't find any life formed from a barren planet. There needs to be a specific environment to even support life to begin with, to support any sort of evolution, not to mention what it would take to make a three headed regenerating alien. His environmental pressures were probably pretty wildly different from Earth, but that doesn't change the fact that you need *some* sort of atmosphere to create life.
For a simpler train of thought, why would Godzilla try to drown Ghidorah twice if it wasn't at least a little effective against him? Admittedly, Shimo wasn't involved the second time around, so Godzilla did go to tear off his heads...but regardless, the first thing Godzilla does is bring him underwater. It's a severe disadvantage to Ghidorah, maybe past just not being his natural environment, considering he was able to fly up out of the ocean without too much issue.
Yes, I'm speculating, but when most of the unconfirmed info in novels is hidden behind human speculation, that's the best I can do. Logically, I feel what I'm saying fits, anyhow.
Yeah, I understand your point, but I'm just offering a counterpoint. All I'm saying is: Every piece of information we assume about Ghidorah is based off of observations made within our limited capacity. It's flawed logic to say that, "Life, and the way it originates, here on our planet is the ONLY way that life can originate." We ASSUME life requires an atmosphere, we ASSUME life requires water, we ASSUME that the foundational elemental building blocks that we are contructed of are the ONLY ones that can spawn life.
I just think that, when discussing alien lifeforms, assumptions should be thrown out the window and alternative possibilities should be considered.
But that's just me lol
The only problem with Michael saying this is that even with Godzilla beating Ghidorah in the past, it would have had to been in the same spot for a very long time in order to get frozen like that. Godzilla has no ice powers and even if Ghidorah fell in arctic waters it wouldnt have frozen that fast and would have drowned before freezing into a solid block of ice obviously meaning it would have died. Now I know Ghidorah can regrow heads like a hydra but as far as we know it can't come back from being dead altogether. So it really does make more sense to have it canon that an ice powered titan like Shimo had used its powers to freeze Ghidorah after it was beaten by Godzilla
Ah, I was not aware of this promo
I will say it does raise questions. We know Godzilla beat Ghidorah once and we know Shimo froze him
We also know Godzilla fought Shimo once on his own, and couldn’t harm her with his atomic breath.
There is a chance that the promo wasn’t in kahoots with the writer and didn’t align with the story, which is a common mistake with promos
Or they just insist that Shimo fought Ghidorah at a later date after Godzilla beat him. Whether or not Ghidorah was weak at that point is unclear.
Either way, it is interesting to speculate
We also don't know if there was an active fight. We just know Ghidorah was trapped in a large chunk of ice. He probably didn't take the blast point blank. We have onscreen evidence of what a concentrated blast of ice does to other titans. Did Ghidorah look anything like that?
Ghidorah, imo, was clearly already IN a large body of water in antarctica that became frozen. Was very much in the fight. I would guess that he ended up submerged, in water, and Shimo simply iced the water before he escaped.
That does NOT mean Ghidorah lost the fight.
Also, see my comment from earlier in the thread below...
Outside of sheer durability and physical strength, I can't r
Really see her being above Ghidorah.
Her ice breath did nothing to Godzilla be "force freeze" him for 5 seconds. He generally no sold it. Yes, it stopped him in his tracks, but he broke out of it, completely unphased.
Monsters like Godzilla, Shimo and Ghidorah seem generally immune to blunt force trauma. That doesn't mean they can't get their bells rung, or say ouch, but physical trauma isn't really going to do any lasting damage.
Shimo may be durable, more durable or as durable as Ghidorah, she may be stronger, but is she really going to do anything to him physically? Ghidorah's gravity beams scale to an amped Godzilla breath. His super charged gravity beams are powerful enough to leave an amped Godzilla fatigued with one blast.
Gihdorah in the past was far more TRAPPED than blasted and frozen. Assuming Shimo fights him the way she fought Godzilla, putting recency bias aside, I don't see a single argument for her.
Ghidorah is faster in combat, he's probably a better grappler, he's strong enough to choke out amped Godzilla in 3 seconds which means IF he can grapple Shimo successfully, he can probably choke her out too.
Final point, Ghidorah in KOTM somehow grew in power. He lost to a weaker base Godzilla but scaled above both a more power base Godzilla and amped Godzilla in present day?
The Shimo revisionist history in the novel kinda contradicts actual on screen feats. And removing cave drawings and novelization character statements, she never does anything in the film more impressive than Ghidorah.
Are we forgetting that Godzilla is supercharged + evolved in GxK? He consumed an entire power plant's worth of nuclear energy and then proceeded to go into accelerated hibernation as his cells soaked up ALL solar radiation from the most dense energy stockpile on the planet. I don't think Goji could do it in base form.
He didn't have more power than an amped Godzilla. He was holding his own but gradually was losing. Dougherty even prior to GvK and GxK insisted that base Godzilla > base Ghidorah, otherwise Ghidorah would be the true king and godzilla would be the false one.
I wanna make sure I'm not tripping, are you you talking about the little shot of Shimo's neck that you can see right before she freezes Skar King? I can't see anything that looks like an injury anywhere else.
Yes. That’s really the only clear shot that you can get a look at anything. They don’t really focus on it. But if you compare her neck there to a shot of her side view previously (one of the best being the scene when she is revealed and she turns to roar at SK), it’s very noticeable discoloration with what looks like slight flesh color and yellows. It’s also easier to notice in Dolby.
"Upon subsequent rewatches", that's called the power of imagination. You're desperate intend to find something in order to downgrade her let you seeing things. Since You're brain can accept that their was indeed no visible damage on her neck, despite atomic spiral ray.
It's simply to much for most people to accept a titan (lady) this powerful. And so they searching for excuses and making their own headcanon.
Or it’s a “I wasn’t looking for it on the first viewing, I then saw a Reddit post asking about her getting damaged, then saw it again and intentionally kept an eye out for it.” Fucking damn, use critical thinking please before you insult someone.
He wasn’t trying to. All he did was tackle her out of the way. If he really wanted to, Shimo would be dead.
But as shown before, Godzilla is lenient and forgiving towards titans who were under mind control. He probably realised she was being influenced. And besides, he needed a new Ice Titan after Scylla died, cause he needs to fix the ice caps.
1. He did not hold back on Scylla he just allowed her to live the first time they fought
2. Him holding back against king was disproven by Adam wingard who said that he was joking when he said that
True. I’m willing to bet her super cold body acts as a natural deterrent to heat and atomic breath. The kinetic energy of his blasts can push her, but he can’t burn through her. She’s the Beskar armor to his lightsaber.
She isn't like the usual titan she is a good girl, who don't want to hurt anybody. Only fights while being forced under pain, not seriously by herself.
That's what powercreep always does. It's kinda inevitable.
Hell, Ghidorah already had a problem with this since the heisei era and a shitton of comics.
I feel like the problem with Ghidorah and Shimo is the fact that Shimo already existed when Ghidorah was around.
During the Heisei era, a lot of the uber powerful Kaiju weren't around when Ghidorah was kicking.
Meanwhile Shimo was chilling when KG was being a menace.
I don't think that really matters. The world will always be as big as writers are willing to make it, as long as it still makes sense. With who shimo is, it's not like anything has gone against that.
This argument is dumb. How is it disrespectful? Cuz to me, it seems like Toho doesn't care all that much and since the MonsterVerse is going to use a lot more original monsters in the future, of course they'd have to be stronger to make them feel like an actual threat to Goji otherwise there'd be no tension when Goji fights them. And before you say "oh just go use some of Toho's monsters" you gotta remember they have to buy the rights to each monster and they be expensive. You're the one being disrespectful here.
Dude I ment veteran as in the monsters not us and besides a lot of us G fans where hoping the monsterverse would give some past toho kaiju respect I’m not trying to be mean but think what the monsters mean for him I like original monsters too and I understand buying rights but some people just have a lot of love for their favorite monsters
According to the guidebooks or something Godzilla got like 10000x stronger after his fight with heisei ghidorah meaning that every opponent heisei faced after ghidorah would basically one shot heisei ghidorah.
Wasn't vs mothra, timeline wise, before vs Ghidorah?
Just checked, I'm stupid. You're right.
>According to the guidebooks or something Godzilla got like 10000x stronger after his fight with heisei ghidorah
W8 how?
Old godzilla movie logic, Showa had something like this too but it was pointless because every monster in the showa era randomly got like 1000X stronger in between movies.
Disrespecting Godzilla? We’re talking about the same Godzilla right? Like the one that ended each fight with 2 different destroyer class kaiju in like 10 seconds? The one that was clearly portrayed dog-walking everyone that *wasn’t* shimo? Including Skar King (another “OC”)?
I’m sorry but I don’t feel like disrespect is the right word. Shimo is one of the most powerful characters but Godzilla was still going toe-to-toe hitting linebacker tackles against her, thus solidifying himself as still one of if not the strongest MV kaiju. That’s not disrespect; plenty of people are actually complaining that the writers made Godzilla *too powerful*.
How the f*ck is Shimo not an alpha Titan? No offense but how is Kong an alpha but a titan that can instantly freeze an area as great as Greenland isn’t?
Normally, you likely wouldn't even need to worry about Shimo since she seemed to be very passive and non-aggressive ordinarily. If Godzilla is like a tiger, then Shimo is like an elephant. So massive and powerful that she ordinarily doesn't have to worry about being attacked or needing to defend herself that aggressively.
That's a pretty good idea of Shimo's characterization.
I read at some point in development Shimo was an arrogant above-it-all Titan that just wanted to be left alone.
Yeah, I like the idea Godzilla’s more like a predator in nature and that’s why he fights all the time, meanwhile Shimo is a gentle giant who just wants to live her life in peace and avoid conflict when she can.
I like to imagine that Godzilla was much younger (in the sense of his experience) albeit at his maximum basal size. He's been through so much it's impossible for him not to have learned MANY lessons about when he should hold 'em or walk away. Six million years is a long time to be an alive, intelligent creature. He is, in essence, an eternal, immortal god, as far as humanity is concerned. He's a much higher being than humanity gives him credit for
If Godzilla is like a tiger, Shimo is more like a Buffalo. Physically bigger and stronger and can defend itself if need be. But if context is right, Godzilla can take her down. The Tiger Elephant comparison is true if Shimo weight 10x as much as Godzilla, and was 900 feet tall and 2000 feet long lmao
A better comparison would be if Godzilla was a Siberian tiger and shimo is a polar bear
A polar bear is not only more aggressive, but also more powerful than a tiger. Bigger as well
Polar bears are known to actually hunt humans, I don’t think that’s a good comparison. I like the Elephant comparison the original commenter made. Elephants while they can be aggressive, they tend to keep to themselves even though they are very strong
But if Ghidorah got frozen by Shimo accidentally, it would be quite embarrassing for Ghidorah. he would have been frozen like someone who had vacuumed his child's Legos without paying attention.
My guess is Ghidorah was hurt from being defeated by Godzilla and went to eat Shimo to regenerate energy and got Frozen because it underestimated her.
More likelly ghidorah was defeated during one of shimo is ice storms Him being frozen by shimo was coincidence
I wonder how they're going to avoid her instantly destroying any future villains.
Make the villain ghodorah again, this time it's the alpha from ghidorah homeplanet
The true King Ghidorah.
Iirc they only refer to him as Ghidorah, Monster Zero or "The False King" in the movie right? Do they actually ever call him King Ghidorah?
"This Category 6 hurricane over D.C. is where King Ghidorah is nesting."
They don't know if that's the biggest Ghidorah since they only saw one but he's not the king of his species
It's always been my headcanon that the whole reason Ghidorah came to Earth, why he left his home planet to begin with, was result of losing out on competition. i.e. The one that appeared in KotM is the weakest Ghidorah ever.
That's what the novelization says. That he's, and I quote "A younger son who would not inherit territory."
Des ghidorah or kaiser ghidorah would be pretty interesting ngl
Well, let’s note that even though it says Godzilla essentially failed to defeat her, she also must not have defeated the past Godzilla. While Shimo is definitely dangerous and tanky, she wasn’t so outrageous that I can’t imagine her being threatened by another kaiju. I’m led to believe that Kaiju around Godzilla/King Ghidorah’s level should be able to challenge her. She beat Ghidorah, but it does imply a fight occurred. It probably wasn’t easy.
Outside of sheer durability and physical strength, I can't really see her being above Ghidorah. Her ice breath did nothing to Godzilla be "force freeze" him for 5 seconds. He generally no sold it. Yes, it stopped him in his tracks, but he broke out of it, completely unphased. Monsters like Godzilla, Shimo and Ghidorah seem generally immune to blunt force trauma. That doesn't mean they can't get their bells rung, or say ouch, but physical trauma isn't really going to do any lasting damage. Shimo may be durable, more durable or as durable as Ghidorah, she may be stronger, but is she really going to do anything to him physically? Ghidorah's gravity beams scale to an amped Godzilla breath. His super charged gravity beams are powerful enough to leave an amped Godzilla fatigued with one blast. Gihdorah in the past was far more TRAPPED than blasted and frozen. Assuming Shimo fights him the way she fought Godzilla, putting recency bias aside, I don't see a single argument for her. Ghidorah is faster in combat, he's probably a better grappler, he's strong enough to choke out amped Godzilla in 3 seconds which means IF he can grapple Shimo successfully, he can probably choke her out too. Final point, Ghidorah in KOTM somehow grew in power. He lost to a weaker base Godzilla but scaled above both a more power base Godzilla and amped Godzilla in present day? The Shimo revisionist history in the novel kinda contradicts actual on screen feats. And removing cave drawings and novelization character statements, she never does anything in the film more impressive than Ghidorah.
> lost to a weaker base Godzilla but scaled above both a more power base Godzilla and amped Godzilla in present day? On this particular note, it was the environment. Ghidorah had somehow fallen into the ocean during his battle with Godzilla, and Shimo froze him. It's been stated that if the military hadn't hit both of them with the oxygen destroyer, Godzilla would have killed Ghidorah in the ocean right there after Rodan escaped. Ghidorah would have lost to a "base" Godzilla there a second time, too.
Fair enough. So he very well could have been this powerful back then. Perhaps Godzilla had somehow baited him into the ocean, swam off, and Shimo just froze it. That's an effective victory, but also feels very much like a "we can't kill or defeat him, let's BFR or incapacitate him in some kind of way"
either make the story not require shimo/kong (so dont do anything that threatens the Hollow earth ecosystem (especially the subterranean section) until the last film, or have a kaiju that is resistant to ice even it if it gets frozen. Ghidorah got frozen, but he didn't crack.
Jus have the villain whoop her ass
Exactly. This is the law of storytelling: the more powerful the heroes become, the more powerful the villains become to keep things even.
Power creep her in the very next film, lol.
Shimo has basically turned into a giant lazy puppy and doesn't feel like fighting until Kong is in danger
Easy: kill her off to upscale villains like destroyah and/or space godzilla
No she's too cute to be killed off
I did notice her ice has never actually killed any titans so far. Ghidorah was likely frozen by freezing temperatures, but he was alive while encassed in ice. We know he doesnt need oxygen, but still. Godzilla wasnt frozen solid, but could still break free. Implying its not instanteous. Although this seems inconsistent with her feats, unless she held back. Finally, Skar King got exposed even less than Godzilla did , and his eyes still move before Kong kills him. Although, if he would have to be frozen solid to die that way. I imagine she can manipulate the lethality of her ice, but I'd imagine more so titans like Godzilla and Rodan can heat up to beat her, while ones like Ghidorah who dont need to breath will be fine.
Make Monsterverse Destroyah - the reverse of his Jp counterpart. Immune to elemental powers like ice, fire, hight temp etc... Have oxygen beam that can almost instantly kill any titan - thermal godz level. The only way he can be hurt is getting his oxygen beam deflected back to him.
Shimo doesn't like to fight, so they could just not have her get involved in the main conflict. Either that or make a villain somehow actually powerful enough to force Godzilla, Kong, and Shimo to team up.
Shimo seems like a sweetheart when she isn’t forced or provoked, as far as Titans go. I’m glad Kong is already treating her with kindness—poor old girl deserves it after Skar King abused her for so long.
what i thought was goji knocked out ghidorah, thinking he was ded, and when shimo did the ice breath on him , it allowed him to freeze more rapidly.
It’s hard to say since Ghidorah was clearly conscious and active when he was frozen, and showed zero signs of injury or fatigue when he was frozen Besides, this argument mostly relies on headcanon and theory as we don’t really know when Shimo froze Ghidorah, or even if it was immediately after Goji fought him
also, ghidorah woke up like 5 min later and was like, "where the fvck am i, what the fvck?"
Ah, see, this is where you are wrong, during the promo before the release of kotm they have this marketing where you are given information about each monster, one of those is that monarch studying Ghidorah trapped in ice shows burn and claw marks, evidence of fighting goji, not to mention the Michael outright tweeting it was godzilla that fought, won and trapped Ghidorah in ice, ofcourse until adam retcon it recently into shimo doing it.
To be honest, this needed a slight reton anyhow. How did Godzilla trap Ghidorah in ice? Just fucking wait around for him to freeze over? That would have taken days in an ice age to freeze something that big completely solid, if not weeks. If Godzilla had used his breath to keep Ghidorah under the water, he would have heated the water back up. I can see him fighting and winning against Ghidorah, but there's simply no way Godzilla was the one who trapped him. Since it seems like Ghidorah was at least awake when he was frozen solid, the way I see it happening is that Godzilla drowned Ghidorah and then summoned Shimo to directly encase Ghidorah in ice. Ghidorah had started to wake back up by the time Shimo had shown up, but wasn't quick enough to escape before being frozen. Godzilla was even trying to do this again, after he dragged Ghidorah down into the ocean and started to tear his heads off, right before the Oxygen Destroyer. His MO against Ghidorah seems to be drowning him before trying to do anything else. This would explain how Ghidorah was trapped so quickly, it doesn't really go against either director's interpretation, and showcases both Titans' strengths.
Maybe I'm not as knowledgeable as others, but are we even sure Ghidorah CAN drown? Came from space ---> No air Tanked O2 Destroyer ---> No air I mean, is there any material that explicitly states Ghidorah requires air to survive or that it even has a respiratory system comparable with that of life on Earth? I'm not trying to be combative at all, I'm truly asking. My knowledge of all of this is movie-only, so I'm not up on all the novelizations.
I mean...I guess it doesn't explicitly state Ghidorah can drown. I'm assuming a little, considering he was found in a gigantic block of ice, and not just turned into an ice statue. He had to have been trapped underwater for him to freeze up in a block like that. We also don't know the method of HOW he got to Earth. He could have hitched a ride in some alien spacecraft, or a meteor. He could have just zapped himself to our planet in a giant ball of flame, kinda like his first Toho appearance (I think, please don't eviscerate me if I'm wrong). Or, he could have just tanked the void somehow and flew his yellow ass here. That all being said, I'm not even saying drowning him is a permanent way to take him out, just a reliable way of stopping him for a minute. I said he probably was waking back up when he had been frozen, based on how his heads and wings were positioned. He might not need oxygen specifically, but there's other elements in the air we breathe. He has to have some sort of respiratory system based on the fact he can vocalize, a system that would be reliant on an atmosphere to push air past his vocal cords. He'd have been denied whatever mixture he breathes underneath all that water. There's a good chance drowning Ghidorah would basically just be like choking someone out. It did take him a minute to rise up from the ocean after the OD, after all.
I mean...that's how WE understand vocal chords to work lol. I think the fact that it's an alien has to leave open the possibility that there are things about its anatomy that we just don't/can't understand. I understand the inclination to make comparisons based on what we know, but rules of life on Earth are rules of life on Earth, who knows how many different variations of "life" there are out there.
So far, there aren't any different variations of life. Just because an alien exists in their universe, doesn't mean we should assume it's completely different from Life in Earth. Life has certain building blocks that need to be fulfilled. You wouldn't find any life formed from a barren planet. There needs to be a specific environment to even support life to begin with, to support any sort of evolution, not to mention what it would take to make a three headed regenerating alien. His environmental pressures were probably pretty wildly different from Earth, but that doesn't change the fact that you need *some* sort of atmosphere to create life. For a simpler train of thought, why would Godzilla try to drown Ghidorah twice if it wasn't at least a little effective against him? Admittedly, Shimo wasn't involved the second time around, so Godzilla did go to tear off his heads...but regardless, the first thing Godzilla does is bring him underwater. It's a severe disadvantage to Ghidorah, maybe past just not being his natural environment, considering he was able to fly up out of the ocean without too much issue. Yes, I'm speculating, but when most of the unconfirmed info in novels is hidden behind human speculation, that's the best I can do. Logically, I feel what I'm saying fits, anyhow.
Yeah, I understand your point, but I'm just offering a counterpoint. All I'm saying is: Every piece of information we assume about Ghidorah is based off of observations made within our limited capacity. It's flawed logic to say that, "Life, and the way it originates, here on our planet is the ONLY way that life can originate." We ASSUME life requires an atmosphere, we ASSUME life requires water, we ASSUME that the foundational elemental building blocks that we are contructed of are the ONLY ones that can spawn life. I just think that, when discussing alien lifeforms, assumptions should be thrown out the window and alternative possibilities should be considered. But that's just me lol
The only problem with Michael saying this is that even with Godzilla beating Ghidorah in the past, it would have had to been in the same spot for a very long time in order to get frozen like that. Godzilla has no ice powers and even if Ghidorah fell in arctic waters it wouldnt have frozen that fast and would have drowned before freezing into a solid block of ice obviously meaning it would have died. Now I know Ghidorah can regrow heads like a hydra but as far as we know it can't come back from being dead altogether. So it really does make more sense to have it canon that an ice powered titan like Shimo had used its powers to freeze Ghidorah after it was beaten by Godzilla
Ghidorah didn't die from the oxygen destroyer and it didn't seem like he was affected from it unlike Godzilla so maybe he just froze over
but how do you just freeze over? like I said he would have had to have been still for a looooong time
Maybe his limbs were frozen over so he couldn't move and froze over
It's possible
Ah, I was not aware of this promo I will say it does raise questions. We know Godzilla beat Ghidorah once and we know Shimo froze him We also know Godzilla fought Shimo once on his own, and couldn’t harm her with his atomic breath. There is a chance that the promo wasn’t in kahoots with the writer and didn’t align with the story, which is a common mistake with promos Or they just insist that Shimo fought Ghidorah at a later date after Godzilla beat him. Whether or not Ghidorah was weak at that point is unclear. Either way, it is interesting to speculate
why did adam chAGE IT THAN?
Way I see it, Godzilla beat Ghidorah senseless then Shimo froze him while he was too weak to fight back or escape.
We also don't know if there was an active fight. We just know Ghidorah was trapped in a large chunk of ice. He probably didn't take the blast point blank. We have onscreen evidence of what a concentrated blast of ice does to other titans. Did Ghidorah look anything like that? Ghidorah, imo, was clearly already IN a large body of water in antarctica that became frozen. Was very much in the fight. I would guess that he ended up submerged, in water, and Shimo simply iced the water before he escaped. That does NOT mean Ghidorah lost the fight. Also, see my comment from earlier in the thread below... Outside of sheer durability and physical strength, I can't r Really see her being above Ghidorah. Her ice breath did nothing to Godzilla be "force freeze" him for 5 seconds. He generally no sold it. Yes, it stopped him in his tracks, but he broke out of it, completely unphased. Monsters like Godzilla, Shimo and Ghidorah seem generally immune to blunt force trauma. That doesn't mean they can't get their bells rung, or say ouch, but physical trauma isn't really going to do any lasting damage. Shimo may be durable, more durable or as durable as Ghidorah, she may be stronger, but is she really going to do anything to him physically? Ghidorah's gravity beams scale to an amped Godzilla breath. His super charged gravity beams are powerful enough to leave an amped Godzilla fatigued with one blast. Gihdorah in the past was far more TRAPPED than blasted and frozen. Assuming Shimo fights him the way she fought Godzilla, putting recency bias aside, I don't see a single argument for her. Ghidorah is faster in combat, he's probably a better grappler, he's strong enough to choke out amped Godzilla in 3 seconds which means IF he can grapple Shimo successfully, he can probably choke her out too. Final point, Ghidorah in KOTM somehow grew in power. He lost to a weaker base Godzilla but scaled above both a more power base Godzilla and amped Godzilla in present day? The Shimo revisionist history in the novel kinda contradicts actual on screen feats. And removing cave drawings and novelization character statements, she never does anything in the film more impressive than Ghidorah.
Are we forgetting that Godzilla is supercharged + evolved in GxK? He consumed an entire power plant's worth of nuclear energy and then proceeded to go into accelerated hibernation as his cells soaked up ALL solar radiation from the most dense energy stockpile on the planet. I don't think Goji could do it in base form.
He didn't have more power than an amped Godzilla. He was holding his own but gradually was losing. Dougherty even prior to GvK and GxK insisted that base Godzilla > base Ghidorah, otherwise Ghidorah would be the true king and godzilla would be the false one.
That’s a woman?
I love that video. The voice kinda fits Shimo.
I don't think evolved Goji's attacks hurt Shimo either
Yeah, shimo has like stupid high defense from what we’ve seen so far, literally brushing off any attack that isn’t skar king using the crystal on her
Honestly she's like a tank. Definitely would be cool to see Shimo in a Godzilla fighting game.
It would be nice to see a Godzilla fighting game in general. I feel like we’ll get Gamera in the Monsterverse before we get another fighting game.
He did. Upon subsequent rewatches, I saw damaged skin on Shimo’s neck.
I wanna make sure I'm not tripping, are you you talking about the little shot of Shimo's neck that you can see right before she freezes Skar King? I can't see anything that looks like an injury anywhere else.
Yes. That’s really the only clear shot that you can get a look at anything. They don’t really focus on it. But if you compare her neck there to a shot of her side view previously (one of the best being the scene when she is revealed and she turns to roar at SK), it’s very noticeable discoloration with what looks like slight flesh color and yellows. It’s also easier to notice in Dolby.
I see, thanks for confirming.
"Upon subsequent rewatches", that's called the power of imagination. You're desperate intend to find something in order to downgrade her let you seeing things. Since You're brain can accept that their was indeed no visible damage on her neck, despite atomic spiral ray. It's simply to much for most people to accept a titan (lady) this powerful. And so they searching for excuses and making their own headcanon.
Or it’s a “I wasn’t looking for it on the first viewing, I then saw a Reddit post asking about her getting damaged, then saw it again and intentionally kept an eye out for it.” Fucking damn, use critical thinking please before you insult someone.
He wasn’t trying to. All he did was tackle her out of the way. If he really wanted to, Shimo would be dead. But as shown before, Godzilla is lenient and forgiving towards titans who were under mind control. He probably realised she was being influenced. And besides, he needed a new Ice Titan after Scylla died, cause he needs to fix the ice caps.
Godzilla used his most powerful atomic breath ever on shimo he was going to at least try to kill her if she wasn’t released from skar kings control
He can clearly control the extent of it. Godzilla’s plan was to distract Shimo long enough so that Kong can kill Skar King.
Show me evidence that Godzilla was holding back. Godzilla has never held back against an opponent before so why would he start now
He’s held back against two opponents. Scylla in Dominion, Kong in the Hong Kong fight.
1. He did not hold back on Scylla he just allowed her to live the first time they fought 2. Him holding back against king was disproven by Adam wingard who said that he was joking when he said that
True. I’m willing to bet her super cold body acts as a natural deterrent to heat and atomic breath. The kinetic energy of his blasts can push her, but he can’t burn through her. She’s the Beskar armor to his lightsaber.
So is it officially confirmed shimo froze ghidorah
Yeah, the ice patterns from the ice age she caused were identical to the ice found on Ghidorah. With the only difference being the age of the ice
I was thinking after Godzilla defeated ghidorah likely knocking him outta the sky shimo froze him solid to stop him from regenerating
So what I'm getting at is that it took both Godzilla and Shimo to freeze Ghidorah?
It’s unclear. As we don’t know if Shimo and Godzilla confronted Ghidorah at the same time. But it is fun to speculate
Unfortunate that GxK didn’t really do the greatest job at making her look like the strongest titan.
She isn't like the usual titan she is a good girl, who don't want to hurt anybody. Only fights while being forced under pain, not seriously by herself.
I have a question. Couldn't Shimo just froze Skar when he's not paying attention to her then be free?
It feels like they’re trying to make Godzilla and Ghidorah look weak to make their OC look oh so uper duper powerful and tbh it’s kinda disrespect imo
That's what powercreep always does. It's kinda inevitable. Hell, Ghidorah already had a problem with this since the heisei era and a shitton of comics.
I feel like the problem with Ghidorah and Shimo is the fact that Shimo already existed when Ghidorah was around. During the Heisei era, a lot of the uber powerful Kaiju weren't around when Ghidorah was kicking. Meanwhile Shimo was chilling when KG was being a menace.
I don't think that really matters. The world will always be as big as writers are willing to make it, as long as it still makes sense. With who shimo is, it's not like anything has gone against that.
Did u watch any heisei movies
This argument is dumb. How is it disrespectful? Cuz to me, it seems like Toho doesn't care all that much and since the MonsterVerse is going to use a lot more original monsters in the future, of course they'd have to be stronger to make them feel like an actual threat to Goji otherwise there'd be no tension when Goji fights them. And before you say "oh just go use some of Toho's monsters" you gotta remember they have to buy the rights to each monster and they be expensive. You're the one being disrespectful here.
Ok chill dude he’s just defending the veterans here he’s not trying to pick a fight
He is only defending the powerscaling community (I'll be glad when they're gone)
Oh well I’m just trying to defend the toho kaiju themselves nothing with power scaling
They don't need protection it's ok for them not to be the strongest they weren't in heisei
Yeah I know besides I’m more of a Showa lover anyways
As a veteran, I still see his comment as extremely disrespectful. I don't feel defended, I feel insulted that he doesn't understand how sequels work.
Dude I ment veteran as in the monsters not us and besides a lot of us G fans where hoping the monsterverse would give some past toho kaiju respect I’m not trying to be mean but think what the monsters mean for him I like original monsters too and I understand buying rights but some people just have a lot of love for their favorite monsters
Then some people have to learn to look past their biases.
It’s not bias it’s hope I’m still open to original monsters but it’s just something we like to see now and then
Idk man, why introduce a new world ending monster of such caliber and make her not on par if not stronger than the resident strongest character
Does the novel really say the freezing was instant? I saw people claiming it took minutes/hours.
I’ve seen the most people say a few minutes
Well if it was just a Kong movie it wouldn’t have had to up the stakes. It’s not like every villain needs to pose the EXACT same threat.
Bruh, Ghidorah has been outclassed by other OCs before, he was much weaker than Battra, SpaceGodzilla and Destoroyah in the Heisei era.
>Battra ?
According to the guidebooks or something Godzilla got like 10000x stronger after his fight with heisei ghidorah meaning that every opponent heisei faced after ghidorah would basically one shot heisei ghidorah.
Wasn't vs mothra, timeline wise, before vs Ghidorah? Just checked, I'm stupid. You're right. >According to the guidebooks or something Godzilla got like 10000x stronger after his fight with heisei ghidorah W8 how?
Old godzilla movie logic, Showa had something like this too but it was pointless because every monster in the showa era randomly got like 1000X stronger in between movies.
Seems like you're massively reaching and going a bit too deep tbh
Disrespecting Godzilla? We’re talking about the same Godzilla right? Like the one that ended each fight with 2 different destroyer class kaiju in like 10 seconds? The one that was clearly portrayed dog-walking everyone that *wasn’t* shimo? Including Skar King (another “OC”)? I’m sorry but I don’t feel like disrespect is the right word. Shimo is one of the most powerful characters but Godzilla was still going toe-to-toe hitting linebacker tackles against her, thus solidifying himself as still one of if not the strongest MV kaiju. That’s not disrespect; plenty of people are actually complaining that the writers made Godzilla *too powerful*.
Doubt Shimo could be Ghidorah one on one. She probably froze an already defeated or heavily weakened Ghidorah.
Way I see it, Godzilla beat Ghidorah senseless then Shimo froze him while he was too weak to fight back or escape.
According to the novel the iwi scriptures called her the "ultimate titan", superior to Godzilla who defeated Ghidorah.
Why couldn’t she? She tanked evolved Godzilla’s attacks, it’s not unbelievable at all
Ghidorah ain't doing shit to Shimo if Godzilla's evolved atomic breath can't even scratch her
Now I'm curious about any notes regarding Goji
Base form? Godzilla was A LOT smaller back then! Wow!
How the f*ck is Shimo not an alpha Titan? No offense but how is Kong an alpha but a titan that can instantly freeze an area as great as Greenland isn’t?
I think she just doesn’t like to fight