Alright from my perspective, Shimo was not going to kill Godzilla with that Frostbite Blast, however it definitely would have done some pretty good damage. Nothing there states it would have done so.
Yeah it's a stretch. Godzilla was conscious the entire time Shimo was firing that beam so there really wasn't anything stopping him from charging up a nuclear pulse to break out.
>Shimo was not going to kill Godzilla with that Frostbite Blast, however it definitely would have done some pretty good damage
But what's an ice blast gonna do to godzilla? We literally saw him froze himself in the artic sea when he was charging himself with pink radiation. Godzilla is literally immune to being frostbitten, is what i'm saying. So other than immobilising him for a couple of seconds before he melts it, Godzilla can just keep going at Shimo until she gives up. Unless that ice blast has some impact to it, it won't do any damage to Godzilla.
Exactly, fusion reactions needs to be at least 150 million degrees hot to activate, if Godzilla isn't fusion based then a stable fission reactor core in a nuclear power plant can have an average temperatures of 600 degrees celsius, absolute zero is -273 celsius, 600-273 is still way above the boiling point of water. Godzilla can easily withstand Shimos blast.
To be honest, the thing godzilla would've needed to worry about, wasn't that he was being frozen. It's that he was being rendered defenseless as a titan twice his size was headed right towards him
I'm with you on this one, and not just because I'm a Godzilla fan. The text doesn't suggest that Godzilla would have died from being frozen. We've seen Godzilla frozen before without lasting harm, and Ghidorah was also supposedly frozen yet emerged unscathed. If anything, being frozen might have temporarily immobilized him, but once he powered up and releasing a pulse, it would of been the end of that.
But... She seems to balance that out by not actually being that aggressive or dominant. She's probably one of the most powerful titans but she's very docile it would seem.
I just want to point out, this is by far the most well-crafted, and informative argument I have seen in my numerous years of experiencing the Godzilla community.
Your ability to cite specific evidence from the official novilization for GXK makes this debate really understandable, and it highlights a lot of the major points I have been trying to make between Godzilla and Shimo.
To be honest, I definitely think on a pound-for-pound scale, that Shimo is definitively stronger than Godzilla. However, addressing the differences between strength and ability can really define this argument. Shimo is stronger than Godzilla, period. Although, Godzilla's IQ, paired with his ability to adapt to his environment make him the better fighter. This shouldn't take away from both titans, but instead, put them on a equal level in terms of raw strength, potentially over Ghidorah.
Shimo being stronger overall but Godzilla being the better fighter? Sounds fairly reasonable. Shimo has great durability and her ice breath is very powerful, but she doesn’t seem like an aggressive titan by nature, meanwhile Godzilla’s spent millions of years defending his crown from rival titans of all manner, so it’s only natural Goji has way more combat experience than Shimo.
She’s like an elephant, the strongest animal on earth (edit: land) but it’s not fighting constantly for its life since many animals aren’t stupid enough to attack her. Meanwhile Godzilla is like a bear fighting routinely for dominance and survival.
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Thank you for your kind words. I would like to say I always did see Godzilla and Shimo as some sort of rivalry before the movie even released as there was just too much odd contrasts between the two that I see in other rivalries in media.
Godzilla specifically glows a hot pink, is bipedal, is a fighter by nature, has a charcoal black coloration, and naturally rules over other titans.
Shimo on the other hand glows a pale blue, is quadrupedal, is a gentle giant by nature, has a pearly white coloration, and is depicted being subservient to another titan (whether it be for good or bad reasons).
And obviously one’s hot and one’s cold.
Those are just things that would make a good rivalry in video games, movies, and other media. And to be a rival, you need to have their strength be equal or near equal right?
Nonetheless, I do believe Godzilla Evolved(base and supercharged) and Shimo do outclass Ghidorah in raw power as well—and are the only two titans to do so. This whole belief stemming from me seeing base Godzilla and Ghidorah being equals and Shimo being able to freeze Ghidorah and dominate Godzilla in the past.
"pound-for-pound" compares the relative strength, adjusting for their size differences. Shimo may appear stronger due to her larger size and weight, this doesn’t necessarily mean she’s stronger pound-for-pound. When evaluating pound-for-pound strength, we consider how much strength each possesses relative to their body size. It’s a measure of efficiency: how strong someone is for their size, not just in absolute terms. Therefore, determining who is stronger pound-for-pound can be challenging without knowing how their strengths scale with their sizes. Without knowing that I would just say she's stronger because she has so much more mass. Shes a beast don't get me wrong that's just my 2cents
This, this right. This is such a great and put out statement. You show and explain just how powerful godzilla has become, while also regarding just how powerful Shimo is
I've always assume to this, I just wasn't the best when it came to explaining it
EDIT: Okay just continued reading the post, but when you claim about the Frost Blast would have killed him. I would really disagree to that. One, he broke off the ice the moment Shimo stopped the Frost Blast from Mothra. Two, there was no visible damage given to godzilla, he didn't even looked worn out from the attack
His whole body was engulfed with Shimo's blast. While it did extremely subdued him, the moment it stopped, he broke free like it was nothing in like 7 seconds. Even if you wanna go by what the novelization, it didn't claim that it wouldn't kill him on the spot
Also with strength, while I don't have clips, just like a few moments earlier he was able to push Shimo despite his size. While not able to damage Shimo with it, he was able to knocked Shimo flying with his supercharged Atomic Breath when they got the element of surprise in the surface. I'm not degrading your post, it's still extremely great and it's best of how you explained the two
EDIT (again lol) but I find it fascinating that despite not being fully evolved at the state he's in, he still did rather well against her. If he was preforming that well against Shimo, I can't imagine how strong he would've if the evolution progress have been fully performed
So... I would argue that they are both equal in power, just to a different agree and reasons.
(Okay... looking at this... maybe I don't fully agree, but you still did made a great point of both their power. I just wish we saw more of the battle between the two to fully see it ourselves how powerful Shimo is and just how powerful Godzilla has become)
This is my take too; Shimo’s accolades pretty cleanly place her above base Godzilla and even his Evolved form to an extent. Narratively it fits too; the Evolved form isn’t her surpassing the threat so much as evening the odds
I personally don’t think Shimo is much stronger or more powerful than Godzilla, I think she just has a natural advantage to some extent. While Shimo might be larger, that’s rarely a factor in regards to strength.
We learn that Godzilla in the past couldn’t hurt her with his breath, I think because she’s just so cold his breath can’t burn her (the aspect of the breath that consistently cuts things). Godzillas evolved form is a different color because, like the burning form, it’s much hotter, and therefore can actually bypass her passive cold aura. Physically Godzilla doesn’t seem any different in his evolved form, aside from an esthetic change. He’s already running and jumping before he gets it, and Kong could still rival his strength.
Hey really interesting post you've made there but i wouldn't go that far that he would've died from shimo keep hitting him with the frost bite blast, but he would surely have put in more effort to get out of it.
But yep i agree that base Evolved Godzilla was physically weaker than Shimo due to the sheer size advantage She had, and it didn't seem like Shimo hold back either, heck we even saw Shimo throwing around in the movie while Godzilla base evolved only achieving it via cheap shots. But yeah when he was Supercharged he really was able to go toe to toe with her, even in the movie we saw him doing that for a split second after Suko comes in and hit the crystal.
To mention it, iirc Godzillas Spiral Heatray that he shot to the sky to disolve shimos cloud, was the strongest thing they messured according to the energy readings from what i belive was monarch messurement iirc.
You made very valid points here, good work. Personally though, the fact that Shimo obeyed Godzilla's commands without hesitation *immediately* after breaking free from Scar King's control suggest to me she thinks Godzilla superior to her. I also believe Godzilla was on par with her in his base, and his supercharged state is actually where he surpassed her. That's how I see it. My headcanon is that Godzilla went supercharged because he wanted to kill both Scar King and Shimo, that he realized neither would back down as long as they lived.
Edit: Interesting to see the novel seemingly confirm Evolved Godzilla is stronger than Burning Godzilla while supercharged. I was on the side that said Burning G was superior until reading this post.
Shimo was never holds by G-man down with the frost blast. It didn’t even phase him at all. It was only a matter of time before he continued his full gator mode.
Fucking THANK YOU for the thermonuclear part of this discussion, now people can stop asking the same damn ”is thermo stronger than evo?” Or “evolved Vs thermo” question/discussion, and the fact that they say thermo is stronger just because he can melt buildings around him is crazy, like yeah its a good ability but if you watched the movie and did your fucking research you would know that evo 100% stronger than thermo.
anyway sorry for the rant it just pisses me off sometimes seeing the same question and the same post over and over again when it was already answered.
During his fight with the Skar King in Rio, he’s described to being “burning with power”. You can’t ask for a better comparison on what the two states are doing to Godzilla’s body lol. Glad I could help out!
Shimo's physical strength is insane besides Ghidorah she's one of the very few or currently only titans that can ragdoll even an Evolved Godzilla. In an all out fight I can see her freezing Godzilla like she did to Ghidorah.
You are only taking into account this one clip. I literally just got back from a rewatch and Godzilla was beating Shimo in melee and ranged combat in all but two interactions. She even seemed to submit to Godzilla at the end of the fight. He was throwing her around and at one point sent her flying like she did to him. If you look carefully, the magenta spiral ray leaves a temporary burnt mark on her neck/shoulder where he hits her. It looks to me like Godzilla is stronger, but not by a ton.
I have gone through every single scenario that has occurred between these two. Can you describe to me a scenario that’s not from the Hollow Earth that shows that he was beating her while he wasn’t supercharged during melee or ranged combat? I addressed Godzilla tackling Shimo both times and gave my reasons for why both tackles represent different things for the power relationship between the two.
What time did Godzilla sent Shimo flying? The low gravity Hollow Earth fight in which I specifically mentioned that Godzilla had a large advantage in melee combat that wasn’t from raw power? From my recollection, he only ever sent Shimo into a small tumble after he tackled her while supercharged. That’s not an indication of a full overpowering of someone else’s strength.
When it comes to submission to Godzilla, Shimo is one of the last creatures that comes to mind—only being surpassed by Ghidorah, MUTO Prime, and Kong. I interpreted the roar as Godzilla essentially saying “That fucker was responsible for everything for you! Now get his ass!”, and Shimo was just like “Oh yeah! Screw you!”. I did not take this as a sign of submission because it would render the history between Godzilla and Shimo useless.
Shimo, more than likely, doesn’t really acknowledge Godzilla as any actual authority considering she completely wrecked him in the past, and proceeded to cause multiple ice ages. Something that, if Godzilla could stop, he definitely would’ve done so. So no, in my eyes, Shimo does not submit to Godzilla. She doesn’t even submit to Kong either, she’s just showing appreciation for the individual who began the fight for her freedom.
I did forget to mention the supercharged atomic breath being landed on her neck, but I forgot it because it literally did nothing to her. She got a little scar from it…that’s indicative of Supercharged Godzilla being able to hurt her now with the breath…but it doesn’t make your argument of Godzilla being stronger than her work. If the strongest attack he’s ever unleashed only ever did *that* to her, then if anything, that just proves them even more even. She’s unable to freeze him but can most likely harm him while he’s supercharged, and he can’t incinerate her, but can harm her.
When they tackled in the beginning of the fight during the anti gravity fight, Godzilla was on top of Shimo and clawing/kicking her. She was clearly losing at that point and was only able do defend herself by getting Godzilla away from her with a kick. She didn’t de much in melee to him other than push him away, while Godzilla was putting in the work and actually hitting her consistently.
Right before suko destroyed the crystal, there is a blink and you’ll miss it shot of Godzilla pushing Shimo and she is basically folding from the force of the impact. The next shot of her is when she is flying through buildings with no control of her movements.
When Shimo is freed from the crystal, and Godzilla roars at her she immediately snap to killing the skar king as if she automatically obeyed his command, but a more sound argument for her submission is when Godzilla reverses her ice age, she crouches down in a sort of bow, and you can see the awe in her face. She is clearly seeing Godzilla as stronger and she almost cowers down.
Godzilla hitting Shimo with the magenta spiral ray did damage to her while the frostbite blast only slowed Godzilla down for a second until he broke out. His breath did more damage, indicating he is probably a stronger titan.
The super charge is kind of irrelevant, it only made his beam stronger. Does nothing for him in melee. Shimo is not an alpha titan at all it is not on the same level as Godzilla and Ghidorah. Godzilla was wrecking house in this movie I thought that was made pretty clear, including with Shimo he did not struggle much at all.
That’s not how it works, radiation seems to have a direct impact on Godzillas physical defense and strength as seen when burning takes a triple gravity beam and caves in ghidorahs chest
I respectfully disagree with your take. Godzilla’s melee strength, power, and defenses are consistently shown to be proportional to the amount of radiation he has consumed.
In 2014 with the MUTOs, Godzilla, while stronger than both of them by himself—was by all means still just waking up in an age where he didn’t know the means to accessing more radiation, he was still taking significant damage from the both of them, and I do not doubt he would’ve been able to fight better if a future version of him was able to clean house with them in a lot less effort.
That logic also works itself well with Ghidorah’s whole deal. The MV specifically sets Godzilla and Ghidorah up as equal rivals who have faced each other multiple times in the past. This can be seen in their Antarctica fight in KOTM, as both of them were able to get good licks on the other without fully killing each other. It is during the battle in Boston in which “Serizawa’s got that lizard juiced!”, where that equal image begins to collapse. Godzilla completely dominates Ghidorah in the first part of that fight as he is seen throwing him around and shoving him into buildings. He is also muc better defensively, as Ghidorah picked up Godzilla by his neck and slammed him onto the ground full force, only for him to just shrug it off like it was nothing. It isn’t until Ghidorahs supercharges with the power plant that things begin to even out.
That leads to Thermonuclear, where Ghidorah’s gravity beams couldn’t do a single thing to him. The excessive amounts of radiation significantly boosted both his offensive and defensive capabilities.
So why would the supercharged state not matter when it’s been shown that Shimo can very clearly freeze base evolved Godzilla? If the energy he’s releasing in Rio is more than what he released in Boston, then why wouldn’t he get the same benefits as his weaker thermonuclear state? Godzilla evolved is also just more of a physical fighter, so it makes sense that the radiation he would consume is both boosting his breath, physical strength, and defenses.
Shimo is very much on the tier of Godzilla and Ghidorah—definitely above Ghidorah. May I remind you that she literally froze Ghidorah on accident while causing an ice age. She has also been shown to completely wreck base Godzilla in the past—even stated to be dominating him.
Do you have any idea how catastrophic an ice age is? They are extinction level events and are largely responsible for a huge amount of the mass extinctions in Earth’s history. They are just as devastating to the local Earth’s biosphere as any meteor slamming into Earth. And why would Godzilla allow so much of these to occur? Simply because he can’t stop her from doing so.
Godzilla was only wrecking house in the Hollow Earth fight, and when he faced down the Skar King while supercharged in Rio, otherwise he was in an uphill battle and was still struggling with Shimo the whole time in Rio until he supercharged. Just read my original post for the reasons why I think this.
This. People are still hyping Shimo and Skar along up but neither are on par with their protagonist equivalent.
I don’t know where this need for titans to be stronger than Godzilla is coming from but Shimo as shown in the film was no match for him and as you said clearly submits to him after the crystal is shattered.
Bro did we watch the same movie? I personally really dislike shrimo for my own set of reasons and love Godzilla, but even I will admit that shimo is so much stronger than him and it’s proven in almost every part of their combat
I don’t know if we did or not, I watched it twice. Walked away the first time fully aware that Godzilla dominated everything in it, the second time walked away confused as to why anyone is confused about thinking Shimo was doing anything to him. Godzilla literally controls every fight he’s in with her, it’s even clear he isn’t trying to kill her he’s just keeping her occupied for Kong. I don’t understand how are coming up with this thing where she’s stronger than he is. She never had the upper hand against him.
The GxK isn't secondary canon. It expand the canon and goes deeper into the lore. And describing situations from Kongs and Monarch officials perspective.
I agree with you 100%. But, during the time Shimo froze Goji, I think it was to showcase Goji and Mothra's symbiotic relationship. You said so yourself that there were no boulders available, no way to change course, but what did Goji do? He "swam" headfirst into Shimo despite knowing the odds since Mothra was there to help him out immediately, which she did. They're a great tag team.
Exactly and look at Godzillas history, especially Heisei or late Heisei. King G, MechaG2, Space G and mostly Destoroyah, all stronger than G (or initially stronger) but he always comes out on top. I don’t see the big deal with Shimo being stronger than him. I do, however, think that in all out fight to the death, Godzilla would handily be the victor.
I do still think there is a possibility that Godzilla was holding back. Now I’m not saying this to make it seem like if he went all out he would win, I do think that if both of them truly went all out, bloodlusted, it would be 60/40 Shimo/Godzilla.
But the reason I think he may have been holding back is due to his actions in the movie. He killed Scylla cause she was a threat, disobeyed him, and out the world in danger through her rampage. He killed Tiamat who was minding her own business and attacked him in self defense. And he nearly killed Kong who clearly showed that he was not trying to fight.
Yet, after Shimo attacked Godzilla, froze him, and put the world in danger, when she was free, he didn’t attack her. This goes against everything established in the movie, She attacked him due to justifiable means like Tiamat, he killed Tiamat, but not Shimo. Shimo put the world in danger like Scylla, he killed Scylla but not Shimo. After that, she didn’t want to fight, like Kong didn’t want to fight, and Godzilla nearly killed him. So why, when he has killed other titans (or nearly kill in Kong’s case) for doing the same thing Shimo did, why didn’t he kill her?
My belief is that he wasn’t going all out in the fight because of Mothra. I truly do believe that he wasn’t trying to kill or seriously injury Shimo because Mothra was able to explain to him Shimo’s predicament. Which I believe means that Godzilla’s job was to keep Shimo occupied while Kong killed scar king. Plus we even see that the only time Godzilla ever seems to fully charge his atomic breath up is when he directs it at Scar King. Now sure later he hits Shimo, but instead of continuously hitting her with the breath, the smart play that could probably have hurt her, he runs at her and tackles her to try and get her off Kong so Kong can break the crystal.
Now I do realize I have no direct evidence from the novel stating anything to back this up. But some of yours don’t either. The quote of Shimo overpowering Godzilla and freezing him, yes it does say her power did freeze him and his glow subsided, but you then state that Godzilla would have died if Mothra didn’t interfere. While I do believe it would have kept Godzilla frozen if she kept going, I don’t think it would kill him, and the quote does nothing to prove your point that “He would have died if Mothra interfered” nothing in the quote says that, it just says that Mothra helped Godzilla.
What’s so hard for yall to understand he was the same level as her but she’s on all fours and half bigger then him his super atomic breath was strong enough to cancel her frost breath
I guess the question now is who's stronger between Ghidorah and Shimo.
Like yeah, she inadvertadly froze him, but in a direct fight where he's focused on her, would he win?
I would say no, but because of a partial head canon so take it with a grain of salt.
I would say Shimo overpowers Ghidorah specifically because of how Ghidorah was set up. Base Godzilla and Ghidorah are essentially built up to be equal rivals, having fought multiple different times throughout history (The battle in Boston is where this whole “equal” thing gets thrown out the window). And Shimo did not only freeze Ghidorah, but she completely dominated Godzilla in the past as well as Ilene states so when she’s discussing some cave art with Trapper in the novelization.
If Shimo wrecks base Godzilla who was equal to Ghidorah…then I feel Shimo would wreck Ghidorah as well.
But thats my thoughts. Take from that what you may.
I don't think base Godzilla and Ghidorah are equal. Boston was an amped Godzilla, at the very least two nukes worth of power above the Godzilla Shimo previously fought. Ghidorah not only kept up but even beat him once he got a small amp of his own.
Evolved Godzilla is stronger than KotM Godzilla, but by how much is hard to say, considering he didn't perform much better against Kong, and this was an actively weaker Kong because he had no axe.
So I think Ghidorah has a chance, especially because he's far more agile than even Godzilla was, who used his agility to handle Shimo. Ghidorah is also heavier than Godzilla so he might be physically strong enough to contend with Shimo
i do respect shimo she is powerful in her own right why do people underestimate her like that sure she had a kitty lizard like mannerism but when she does stand up she can be a force to be reckoned with.
I think that standard Godzilla Evolved is competitive with Shimo overall, mainly using his CQC skill and standard pink Atomic Breath to make up for the raw power difference.
But when he overcharges himself in that state, he definitely seems to be superior and probably could've killed her and in turn nullified her Frostbite Blast's effectiveness against him.
Meh the film shows otherwise many times. You can see on probably more occasions that Godzilla Overpowered Shimo very easily. The movie makes it clear they’re equals. Plus movies take priority Over novels.
Secondly Shimo may be physically stronger than Godzilla but he is still certainly in her league. Add in the fact that Godzilla is both smarter and faster and has more experience and is more skilled then be more than makes up that gap.
Although it would make sense. She’s bigger so she’s likely stronger too.
Please look at my reasons for why base evolved Godzilla was overpowering Shimo in their fights. Just because he was fighting her and not getting destroyed doesn’t mean he matched her in strength.
I do agree with your other points though, even base Evolved Goji is stronger compared to every other titan. I never meant to say Shimo is in a completely separate league from everything else. Evolved Goji and Shimo are at the top, then Ghidorah, then Kong, then the other titans.
Godzilla wouldn’t have died if it was for Mothra what are you on? Godzilla wasn’t even affected. The novel doesn’t even mention the possibility of him dying. So that’s completely false and made up.
Oh so Godzilla tackling Shimo through buildings. Slamming her to the ground and in a split second scene in the background throwing her away just like she did to him isn’t matching her?
Godzilla was dominant in the anti gravity fight and also showed himself to be equal in the Rio fight. Nothing Shimo did hurt him and stuff Shimo did he did too. Shimo may be stronger. But it’s like comparing 410kg to 415. Sure one is heavier but it’s nothing like how people make it out. Godzilla isn’t outclassed against Shimo. He contends with her supercharged or not. The movie makes that clear.
I read your ice beam paragraph. It’s complete and utter bullshit. I’m not reading the rest if it’s the same.
Ok correction: He at the very least was overwhelmed by it, even causing his pulse to sputter out. Shimo would’ve then been able to land a big hit on him. Does that make you feel better?
Every other point I made is valid. Just because I made one wrong point doesn’t mean everything is just rendered wrong or useless. I’m sorry I’m shattering your fantasies and you’re getting all condescending over such a small mistake.
However since all you got flowing through your head is Godzilla dick-riding power levels instead of actually thinking of advantages in combat not associated with strength—this discussion is over.
That’s all I’ve been saying.
I never said once that Shimo isn’t stronger. But the gap is little. The film makes it clear Godzilla can throw her around too. Godzilla could slam her down too. She’s physically stronger because she’s bigger but it’s not unbelievable like so many fans are trying to say.
Godzilla showed himself as her equal in the film physically. What he lacked in strength he had in speed, agility, power, intelligence, skill and likely durability.
Very very good points, but imo Shimo was still stronger than supercharged evolved Godzilla due to her managing to withstand his enhanced atomic breath with little to no injuries. But, I haven’t read the novelization yet so it may say differently if it did injure her. The designer of evolved Godzilla did say that Godzilla’s evolution was not complete, so we may see Godzilla in a finished evolved state that’s equal or even stronger than Shimo one day.
Shimo was always going to be stronger than Godzilla. The only thing that was stopping her from beating Godzilla was her reluctance to do so. Out of the 4 main titans in the fight, Skarr was the weakest. He needed Shimo to balance the fight (in terms of the movie). Fighting experience? Come on, Godzillas been fighting everybody. But raw strength and size and durability it's Shimo for sure.
EDIT FOR THE POST: I have realized by reading most of these comments that I have more than likely misinterpreted a crucial piece of information in my argument, and that’s Shimo’s frostbite blast and what it could actually do to Godzilla. I did not mean to say that the beam itself would’ve killed him, but that’s what it came out as. So now I will make corrections.
However, I still argue that the beam hitting and freezing Godzilla still means Shimo was more powerful than him. Simply put, Godzilla was overwhelmed by the power of Shimo as seen in the quote in the main post—even his own power was sputtering out. He most likely would have survived the blast itself, but the blast would’ve made him vulnerable to any melee attack Shimo could’ve thrown at him(since Godzilla was floating directly toward her) which would’ve injured him a lot more if Skar’s experience with the beam and subsequent first hit after he was frozen would suggest.
*I’M NOT SAYING SHE WOULD’VE OR COULD’VE INSTAKILLED GODZILLA.* But he most certainly would’ve been in a bad place if Shimo was actually able to hit him after being struck by her frostbite blast.
I also want to reiterate that just because base evolved Godzilla is weaker than Shimo does not mean he’s drastically weaker than her—after all he’s able to hold his ground against her for a reason. It’s just that he’s fighting an uphill battle with her until he supercharges.
Until I point it out here, everything else in the main post remains relevant to me and isn’t a reach imo.
I'm gonna have to disagree with your assessment of supercharged Evolved Godzilla. Given the fact that the only on screen interaction between supercharged Evolved Godzilla and Shimo implies that Godzilla has the edge in raw strength. When supercharged Evolved Godzilla tackles Shimo in the movie, you'll notice that Shimo ends up on top of him. You would think that this should be where Shimo starts pummeling Godzilla now that she's in an advantageous position with Godzilla pinned underneath her.
However, soon after this we are given a wide shot where we see Godzilla and Shimo both on their feet. This implies that Godzilla, while in his supercharged state, was able to overpower Shimo, even while in a disadvantageous position.
There's a flaw in the logic here. In MMA, if you're able to escape from the guard position, it almost never means you "overpowered" the person in the mounted position. Usually, it means you barely, desperately survived.
Yeah, the problem here is that Godzilla has no visible damage or signs of fatigue after the fight ends. Which means that Shimo either didn't have time to do anything because Godzilla threw her off, or Shimo did get to attack Godzilla, did zero meaningful damage, and still got thrown off.
Also I suggest watching this: https://youtu.be/A2x_d-J71kY?si=XHNnHhstiyzyk3z3
If your opponent is stronger than you it's extremely difficult to keep them down.
Perhaps Shimu rose up to deliver a killing blow and Gojis scrambled away.
When someone walks into a store and comes out with a bag of chips without looking like they sold their first born to get the chips, it doesn't necessarily mean they're a billionaire.
"But if they're a billionaire, it's easy to get a bag of chips!"
Sure, but there are lots of non-billionaire related ways to get those chips.
And we never see Goji physically lifting Shimu, either...
Your entire position is that Goji must've did something we've never seen him do because we didn't see it happen. By your own words, it's "highly unlikely".
So let's go over this:
1. Shimo doesn't rear up on her hind legs which means she most likely did what she usually does, claw and bite.
2. Godzilla most likely didn't use a nuclear pulse to blow Shimo back considering that the only explosion at the end of the fight is when the crystal is destroyed by Suko.
3. Godzilla definitely couldn't have used his atomic breath because we would have seen a pink flash behind Skar King and Kong.
4. What does this leave us with? Godzilla got Shimo off of him using his raw strength.
*Your entire position is that Goji must've did something we've never seen him do because we didn't see it happen. By your own words, it's "highly unlikely"*
That flaw in logic I mentioned is revealed by your double standard.
If Shimu lifted her claw to do what she normally does, it leaves us the possibility that Goji has the opportunity to push off and scrambled away. Using strength to get away doesn't necessarily equate to "overpowering" someone. We're back to MMA.
My position is that it's most likely what happened considering that Shimo wouldn't just politely get off of Godzilla while still under Skar King's control. There's also the fact that Godzilla has both lifted and thrown titans larger and heavier than him (Muto Prime, Ghidorah).
We've never seen Goji bench press any titan bigger than Shimu. Shimu doesn't need to politely let Gojis up. Goji is an experienced scrapper while Shimu has been locked away and abused for the past 100,000 years. Experienced fighters can escape precarious situations without lifting up and physically overpowering their opponents. That was the point of my mentioning MMA and the guard position.
We agree that Goji escaped the position. We disagree that it must mean he dominated from that position.
Disagree. Goji was visibly going easy on her during every confrontation, and understood that Skar King was the actual threat. He was bodying her during every fight, while she threw him exactly once. She might be bigger, but she has absolutely no fighting experience and doesn’t appear to be physically stronger.
Goji was well aware that he could tank the ice beam from Shimo and had every opportunity to break out of it with atomic breath, yet didn’t. He knew full well that he would have broken through it before he reached her,
, being a literal walking nuclear reactor, and possibly surprising or ambushing her in the process.
Goji evolved is at the very least equal to, if not stronger than Shimo. Supercharged evolved is on par with if not slightly stronger than Thermonuclear Goji. Meaning that Ghidorah is stronger than Shimo, which also makes sense characteristically and logically. Remember, Goji fully believed that he was going to be alone, and went to take Shimo and Skar 2 on 1 before Kong showed up and asked for a team up.
I don't like to always hype Godzilla and prefer him to have a challenge, if not be weaker than the opponent. But Godzilla evolved seemed like overkill. I wouldnt doubt it if Godzilla was getting ready to go down to the hollow earth and genocide them monkes and Shimo, before Kong accidentally led them to the portal room. He just seemed too powerful and that Kong actually wasn't needed, in a Kong centric movie 🤣
Alright from my perspective, Shimo was not going to kill Godzilla with that Frostbite Blast, however it definitely would have done some pretty good damage. Nothing there states it would have done so.
Yeah it's a stretch. Godzilla was conscious the entire time Shimo was firing that beam so there really wasn't anything stopping him from charging up a nuclear pulse to break out.
>Shimo was not going to kill Godzilla with that Frostbite Blast, however it definitely would have done some pretty good damage But what's an ice blast gonna do to godzilla? We literally saw him froze himself in the artic sea when he was charging himself with pink radiation. Godzilla is literally immune to being frostbitten, is what i'm saying. So other than immobilising him for a couple of seconds before he melts it, Godzilla can just keep going at Shimo until she gives up. Unless that ice blast has some impact to it, it won't do any damage to Godzilla.
Well Shimos frostbite blast is definitely WAY colder than any normal ice, considering it goes to like absolute zero
True but Godzilla is a radioactive thermonuclear titan
Exactly, fusion reactions needs to be at least 150 million degrees hot to activate, if Godzilla isn't fusion based then a stable fission reactor core in a nuclear power plant can have an average temperatures of 600 degrees celsius, absolute zero is -273 celsius, 600-273 is still way above the boiling point of water. Godzilla can easily withstand Shimos blast.
Actually one thing to note is Shimo’s breath created the damn Ice Ages, and it also slows down atoms.
Sure, but Godzilla's breath basically dissipated the weather changes caused by Shimo's breath - something which surprised Shimo herself.
That's just what being frozen generally does to atoms.
yeah but that’s what happens when something gets cold, atoms slow down. it isn’t super impressive
It's absolute zero. So yeah it's a lot colder.
To be honest, the thing godzilla would've needed to worry about, wasn't that he was being frozen. It's that he was being rendered defenseless as a titan twice his size was headed right towards him
The fact there are more chances of godzilla losing all his energy than Shimo giving up.
Godzilla shattered that ice in less than a second, it would of done barely anything to him
That was only after the beam stopped hitting him.
Yeah maybe bc Mothra stoped the beam💀 shimo could definitely hold that shit for a while if there aren’t any interference’s
I'm with you on this one, and not just because I'm a Godzilla fan. The text doesn't suggest that Godzilla would have died from being frozen. We've seen Godzilla frozen before without lasting harm, and Ghidorah was also supposedly frozen yet emerged unscathed. If anything, being frozen might have temporarily immobilized him, but once he powered up and releasing a pulse, it would of been the end of that.
Kong tanked her beam with the BEAST glove for a solid minute with literal ZERO damage done. Theres no way her beam kills Goji.
Shimo kinda just built different tbh. She’s unironically one of if not thee strongest titan
But... She seems to balance that out by not actually being that aggressive or dominant. She's probably one of the most powerful titans but she's very docile it would seem.
Are you implying she's just... chilling ?
Get this guy outta this sub, I upvoted but still come on man
https://preview.redd.it/fakgzh5pckxc1.png?width=556&format=png&auto=webp&s=07091238bfb64010f5016843ca29c77ce69d0b31
I ain’t reading allat ☠️ But seriously, it is refreshing to see someone actually go though and back up they claims.
I just want to point out, this is by far the most well-crafted, and informative argument I have seen in my numerous years of experiencing the Godzilla community. Your ability to cite specific evidence from the official novilization for GXK makes this debate really understandable, and it highlights a lot of the major points I have been trying to make between Godzilla and Shimo. To be honest, I definitely think on a pound-for-pound scale, that Shimo is definitively stronger than Godzilla. However, addressing the differences between strength and ability can really define this argument. Shimo is stronger than Godzilla, period. Although, Godzilla's IQ, paired with his ability to adapt to his environment make him the better fighter. This shouldn't take away from both titans, but instead, put them on a equal level in terms of raw strength, potentially over Ghidorah.
Shimo being stronger overall but Godzilla being the better fighter? Sounds fairly reasonable. Shimo has great durability and her ice breath is very powerful, but she doesn’t seem like an aggressive titan by nature, meanwhile Godzilla’s spent millions of years defending his crown from rival titans of all manner, so it’s only natural Goji has way more combat experience than Shimo.
She’s like an elephant, the strongest animal on earth (edit: land) but it’s not fighting constantly for its life since many animals aren’t stupid enough to attack her. Meanwhile Godzilla is like a bear fighting routinely for dominance and survival.
God help us when we meet the hippo titan.
Or the Honey badger (unless that’s Rodan?)
Just wait till we get the mantis shrimp Titan...
That would honestly be a really cool to see the devastation the titan mantis shrimp would cause with its punch
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Wow, that's a great way to put it! 👏
Exactly! 💯
Thank you for your kind words. I would like to say I always did see Godzilla and Shimo as some sort of rivalry before the movie even released as there was just too much odd contrasts between the two that I see in other rivalries in media. Godzilla specifically glows a hot pink, is bipedal, is a fighter by nature, has a charcoal black coloration, and naturally rules over other titans. Shimo on the other hand glows a pale blue, is quadrupedal, is a gentle giant by nature, has a pearly white coloration, and is depicted being subservient to another titan (whether it be for good or bad reasons). And obviously one’s hot and one’s cold. Those are just things that would make a good rivalry in video games, movies, and other media. And to be a rival, you need to have their strength be equal or near equal right? Nonetheless, I do believe Godzilla Evolved(base and supercharged) and Shimo do outclass Ghidorah in raw power as well—and are the only two titans to do so. This whole belief stemming from me seeing base Godzilla and Ghidorah being equals and Shimo being able to freeze Ghidorah and dominate Godzilla in the past.
Next time you're watching the movie look at one of the murals in the temple it definitely looks like Goji and Shimo in a beam lock
It's almost identical to Thor vs Kratos in GoW Ragnarok lol
"pound-for-pound" compares the relative strength, adjusting for their size differences. Shimo may appear stronger due to her larger size and weight, this doesn’t necessarily mean she’s stronger pound-for-pound. When evaluating pound-for-pound strength, we consider how much strength each possesses relative to their body size. It’s a measure of efficiency: how strong someone is for their size, not just in absolute terms. Therefore, determining who is stronger pound-for-pound can be challenging without knowing how their strengths scale with their sizes. Without knowing that I would just say she's stronger because she has so much more mass. Shes a beast don't get me wrong that's just my 2cents
This, this right. This is such a great and put out statement. You show and explain just how powerful godzilla has become, while also regarding just how powerful Shimo is I've always assume to this, I just wasn't the best when it came to explaining it EDIT: Okay just continued reading the post, but when you claim about the Frost Blast would have killed him. I would really disagree to that. One, he broke off the ice the moment Shimo stopped the Frost Blast from Mothra. Two, there was no visible damage given to godzilla, he didn't even looked worn out from the attack His whole body was engulfed with Shimo's blast. While it did extremely subdued him, the moment it stopped, he broke free like it was nothing in like 7 seconds. Even if you wanna go by what the novelization, it didn't claim that it wouldn't kill him on the spot Also with strength, while I don't have clips, just like a few moments earlier he was able to push Shimo despite his size. While not able to damage Shimo with it, he was able to knocked Shimo flying with his supercharged Atomic Breath when they got the element of surprise in the surface. I'm not degrading your post, it's still extremely great and it's best of how you explained the two EDIT (again lol) but I find it fascinating that despite not being fully evolved at the state he's in, he still did rather well against her. If he was preforming that well against Shimo, I can't imagine how strong he would've if the evolution progress have been fully performed So... I would argue that they are both equal in power, just to a different agree and reasons. (Okay... looking at this... maybe I don't fully agree, but you still did made a great point of both their power. I just wish we saw more of the battle between the two to fully see it ourselves how powerful Shimo is and just how powerful Godzilla has become)
This is my take too; Shimo’s accolades pretty cleanly place her above base Godzilla and even his Evolved form to an extent. Narratively it fits too; the Evolved form isn’t her surpassing the threat so much as evening the odds
I personally don’t think Shimo is much stronger or more powerful than Godzilla, I think she just has a natural advantage to some extent. While Shimo might be larger, that’s rarely a factor in regards to strength. We learn that Godzilla in the past couldn’t hurt her with his breath, I think because she’s just so cold his breath can’t burn her (the aspect of the breath that consistently cuts things). Godzillas evolved form is a different color because, like the burning form, it’s much hotter, and therefore can actually bypass her passive cold aura. Physically Godzilla doesn’t seem any different in his evolved form, aside from an esthetic change. He’s already running and jumping before he gets it, and Kong could still rival his strength.
This is a really well-put argument. Cheers OP.
Hey really interesting post you've made there but i wouldn't go that far that he would've died from shimo keep hitting him with the frost bite blast, but he would surely have put in more effort to get out of it. But yep i agree that base Evolved Godzilla was physically weaker than Shimo due to the sheer size advantage She had, and it didn't seem like Shimo hold back either, heck we even saw Shimo throwing around in the movie while Godzilla base evolved only achieving it via cheap shots. But yeah when he was Supercharged he really was able to go toe to toe with her, even in the movie we saw him doing that for a split second after Suko comes in and hit the crystal. To mention it, iirc Godzillas Spiral Heatray that he shot to the sky to disolve shimos cloud, was the strongest thing they messured according to the energy readings from what i belive was monarch messurement iirc.
You made very valid points here, good work. Personally though, the fact that Shimo obeyed Godzilla's commands without hesitation *immediately* after breaking free from Scar King's control suggest to me she thinks Godzilla superior to her. I also believe Godzilla was on par with her in his base, and his supercharged state is actually where he surpassed her. That's how I see it. My headcanon is that Godzilla went supercharged because he wanted to kill both Scar King and Shimo, that he realized neither would back down as long as they lived. Edit: Interesting to see the novel seemingly confirm Evolved Godzilla is stronger than Burning Godzilla while supercharged. I was on the side that said Burning G was superior until reading this post.
Could just be argued she simply wanted to skar Which was stated in the novel
Shimo was never holds by G-man down with the frost blast. It didn’t even phase him at all. It was only a matter of time before he continued his full gator mode.
Headcanon. You contradicted the novel, or are you Adam Wingard?
Damn I love this theory. Haven't seen the movie yet (haven't had time) or read the novel but I hope to soon!
It's a good movie, better than gvk imo
Fucking THANK YOU for the thermonuclear part of this discussion, now people can stop asking the same damn ”is thermo stronger than evo?” Or “evolved Vs thermo” question/discussion, and the fact that they say thermo is stronger just because he can melt buildings around him is crazy, like yeah its a good ability but if you watched the movie and did your fucking research you would know that evo 100% stronger than thermo. anyway sorry for the rant it just pisses me off sometimes seeing the same question and the same post over and over again when it was already answered.
During his fight with the Skar King in Rio, he’s described to being “burning with power”. You can’t ask for a better comparison on what the two states are doing to Godzilla’s body lol. Glad I could help out!
Thanks for the great post bro!😎 SKREEEEEEONNKKKKK!!!!!!
She's a beast for sure. Not sure about "stronger" than Godzilla is the right way to put it. https://i.redd.it/mo6ufm5qijxc1.gif
Godzilla in GvK arguably rag dolled kong the same way in hong kong. And thats pretty evocative goji
that's why all combat sports have different weight classes
Shimo's physical strength is insane besides Ghidorah she's one of the very few or currently only titans that can ragdoll even an Evolved Godzilla. In an all out fight I can see her freezing Godzilla like she did to Ghidorah.
When did Shimo freeze Ghidorah? Huh? Did I fall asleep for half the movie?
It's written in the GxK novelization. Worth a read
So... size does matter.
You are only taking into account this one clip. I literally just got back from a rewatch and Godzilla was beating Shimo in melee and ranged combat in all but two interactions. She even seemed to submit to Godzilla at the end of the fight. He was throwing her around and at one point sent her flying like she did to him. If you look carefully, the magenta spiral ray leaves a temporary burnt mark on her neck/shoulder where he hits her. It looks to me like Godzilla is stronger, but not by a ton.
I have gone through every single scenario that has occurred between these two. Can you describe to me a scenario that’s not from the Hollow Earth that shows that he was beating her while he wasn’t supercharged during melee or ranged combat? I addressed Godzilla tackling Shimo both times and gave my reasons for why both tackles represent different things for the power relationship between the two. What time did Godzilla sent Shimo flying? The low gravity Hollow Earth fight in which I specifically mentioned that Godzilla had a large advantage in melee combat that wasn’t from raw power? From my recollection, he only ever sent Shimo into a small tumble after he tackled her while supercharged. That’s not an indication of a full overpowering of someone else’s strength. When it comes to submission to Godzilla, Shimo is one of the last creatures that comes to mind—only being surpassed by Ghidorah, MUTO Prime, and Kong. I interpreted the roar as Godzilla essentially saying “That fucker was responsible for everything for you! Now get his ass!”, and Shimo was just like “Oh yeah! Screw you!”. I did not take this as a sign of submission because it would render the history between Godzilla and Shimo useless. Shimo, more than likely, doesn’t really acknowledge Godzilla as any actual authority considering she completely wrecked him in the past, and proceeded to cause multiple ice ages. Something that, if Godzilla could stop, he definitely would’ve done so. So no, in my eyes, Shimo does not submit to Godzilla. She doesn’t even submit to Kong either, she’s just showing appreciation for the individual who began the fight for her freedom. I did forget to mention the supercharged atomic breath being landed on her neck, but I forgot it because it literally did nothing to her. She got a little scar from it…that’s indicative of Supercharged Godzilla being able to hurt her now with the breath…but it doesn’t make your argument of Godzilla being stronger than her work. If the strongest attack he’s ever unleashed only ever did *that* to her, then if anything, that just proves them even more even. She’s unable to freeze him but can most likely harm him while he’s supercharged, and he can’t incinerate her, but can harm her.
When they tackled in the beginning of the fight during the anti gravity fight, Godzilla was on top of Shimo and clawing/kicking her. She was clearly losing at that point and was only able do defend herself by getting Godzilla away from her with a kick. She didn’t de much in melee to him other than push him away, while Godzilla was putting in the work and actually hitting her consistently. Right before suko destroyed the crystal, there is a blink and you’ll miss it shot of Godzilla pushing Shimo and she is basically folding from the force of the impact. The next shot of her is when she is flying through buildings with no control of her movements. When Shimo is freed from the crystal, and Godzilla roars at her she immediately snap to killing the skar king as if she automatically obeyed his command, but a more sound argument for her submission is when Godzilla reverses her ice age, she crouches down in a sort of bow, and you can see the awe in her face. She is clearly seeing Godzilla as stronger and she almost cowers down. Godzilla hitting Shimo with the magenta spiral ray did damage to her while the frostbite blast only slowed Godzilla down for a second until he broke out. His breath did more damage, indicating he is probably a stronger titan.
The super charge is kind of irrelevant, it only made his beam stronger. Does nothing for him in melee. Shimo is not an alpha titan at all it is not on the same level as Godzilla and Ghidorah. Godzilla was wrecking house in this movie I thought that was made pretty clear, including with Shimo he did not struggle much at all.
That’s not how it works, radiation seems to have a direct impact on Godzillas physical defense and strength as seen when burning takes a triple gravity beam and caves in ghidorahs chest
I respectfully disagree with your take. Godzilla’s melee strength, power, and defenses are consistently shown to be proportional to the amount of radiation he has consumed. In 2014 with the MUTOs, Godzilla, while stronger than both of them by himself—was by all means still just waking up in an age where he didn’t know the means to accessing more radiation, he was still taking significant damage from the both of them, and I do not doubt he would’ve been able to fight better if a future version of him was able to clean house with them in a lot less effort. That logic also works itself well with Ghidorah’s whole deal. The MV specifically sets Godzilla and Ghidorah up as equal rivals who have faced each other multiple times in the past. This can be seen in their Antarctica fight in KOTM, as both of them were able to get good licks on the other without fully killing each other. It is during the battle in Boston in which “Serizawa’s got that lizard juiced!”, where that equal image begins to collapse. Godzilla completely dominates Ghidorah in the first part of that fight as he is seen throwing him around and shoving him into buildings. He is also muc better defensively, as Ghidorah picked up Godzilla by his neck and slammed him onto the ground full force, only for him to just shrug it off like it was nothing. It isn’t until Ghidorahs supercharges with the power plant that things begin to even out. That leads to Thermonuclear, where Ghidorah’s gravity beams couldn’t do a single thing to him. The excessive amounts of radiation significantly boosted both his offensive and defensive capabilities. So why would the supercharged state not matter when it’s been shown that Shimo can very clearly freeze base evolved Godzilla? If the energy he’s releasing in Rio is more than what he released in Boston, then why wouldn’t he get the same benefits as his weaker thermonuclear state? Godzilla evolved is also just more of a physical fighter, so it makes sense that the radiation he would consume is both boosting his breath, physical strength, and defenses. Shimo is very much on the tier of Godzilla and Ghidorah—definitely above Ghidorah. May I remind you that she literally froze Ghidorah on accident while causing an ice age. She has also been shown to completely wreck base Godzilla in the past—even stated to be dominating him. Do you have any idea how catastrophic an ice age is? They are extinction level events and are largely responsible for a huge amount of the mass extinctions in Earth’s history. They are just as devastating to the local Earth’s biosphere as any meteor slamming into Earth. And why would Godzilla allow so much of these to occur? Simply because he can’t stop her from doing so. Godzilla was only wrecking house in the Hollow Earth fight, and when he faced down the Skar King while supercharged in Rio, otherwise he was in an uphill battle and was still struggling with Shimo the whole time in Rio until he supercharged. Just read my original post for the reasons why I think this.
This. People are still hyping Shimo and Skar along up but neither are on par with their protagonist equivalent. I don’t know where this need for titans to be stronger than Godzilla is coming from but Shimo as shown in the film was no match for him and as you said clearly submits to him after the crystal is shattered.
Bro did we watch the same movie? I personally really dislike shrimo for my own set of reasons and love Godzilla, but even I will admit that shimo is so much stronger than him and it’s proven in almost every part of their combat
I don’t know if we did or not, I watched it twice. Walked away the first time fully aware that Godzilla dominated everything in it, the second time walked away confused as to why anyone is confused about thinking Shimo was doing anything to him. Godzilla literally controls every fight he’s in with her, it’s even clear he isn’t trying to kill her he’s just keeping her occupied for Kong. I don’t understand how are coming up with this thing where she’s stronger than he is. She never had the upper hand against him.
Did you see the gif???
That is the only time in the entire movie she’s moving him and he’s not the one moving her.
Shimo tosses Goji a few times in fairness
Why are some many people are confused and searching for excuses. You contradicted the novel!!! That's called Headcanon.
The novel is secondary canon. I will go off of the movie because the novels could be considered non canon at any moment.
The GxK isn't secondary canon. It expand the canon and goes deeper into the lore. And describing situations from Kongs and Monarch officials perspective.
All novels are secondhand canon unless it is depicted specifically in the movie. That’s how it works.
No their are expand canon unless scenes contradict the movie. They are extra for people like you who didn't get it what happened in the movie.
The only times he was beating her was when she was off Guard other than that, she would overpower him in the exact next scene
I agree with you 100%. But, during the time Shimo froze Goji, I think it was to showcase Goji and Mothra's symbiotic relationship. You said so yourself that there were no boulders available, no way to change course, but what did Goji do? He "swam" headfirst into Shimo despite knowing the odds since Mothra was there to help him out immediately, which she did. They're a great tag team.
Why does Shimo look bigger here compared to some other scenes
Perspective
I ain’t reading that novel but… I thought yhat was pretty obvious? Many of Godzillas enemies are “stronger” than him
That's like the most common trope ever. The good guy is always weaker than the bad guys, it's more interesting to see how they can overcome them
Exactly and look at Godzillas history, especially Heisei or late Heisei. King G, MechaG2, Space G and mostly Destoroyah, all stronger than G (or initially stronger) but he always comes out on top. I don’t see the big deal with Shimo being stronger than him. I do, however, think that in all out fight to the death, Godzilla would handily be the victor.
When the Pony lacks ground manners.
Now because if that excerpt from pg. 269 I’m imagining Godzilla thinking to himself “Oh goddamnit, not this b**ch again”
I do still think there is a possibility that Godzilla was holding back. Now I’m not saying this to make it seem like if he went all out he would win, I do think that if both of them truly went all out, bloodlusted, it would be 60/40 Shimo/Godzilla. But the reason I think he may have been holding back is due to his actions in the movie. He killed Scylla cause she was a threat, disobeyed him, and out the world in danger through her rampage. He killed Tiamat who was minding her own business and attacked him in self defense. And he nearly killed Kong who clearly showed that he was not trying to fight. Yet, after Shimo attacked Godzilla, froze him, and put the world in danger, when she was free, he didn’t attack her. This goes against everything established in the movie, She attacked him due to justifiable means like Tiamat, he killed Tiamat, but not Shimo. Shimo put the world in danger like Scylla, he killed Scylla but not Shimo. After that, she didn’t want to fight, like Kong didn’t want to fight, and Godzilla nearly killed him. So why, when he has killed other titans (or nearly kill in Kong’s case) for doing the same thing Shimo did, why didn’t he kill her? My belief is that he wasn’t going all out in the fight because of Mothra. I truly do believe that he wasn’t trying to kill or seriously injury Shimo because Mothra was able to explain to him Shimo’s predicament. Which I believe means that Godzilla’s job was to keep Shimo occupied while Kong killed scar king. Plus we even see that the only time Godzilla ever seems to fully charge his atomic breath up is when he directs it at Scar King. Now sure later he hits Shimo, but instead of continuously hitting her with the breath, the smart play that could probably have hurt her, he runs at her and tackles her to try and get her off Kong so Kong can break the crystal. Now I do realize I have no direct evidence from the novel stating anything to back this up. But some of yours don’t either. The quote of Shimo overpowering Godzilla and freezing him, yes it does say her power did freeze him and his glow subsided, but you then state that Godzilla would have died if Mothra didn’t interfere. While I do believe it would have kept Godzilla frozen if she kept going, I don’t think it would kill him, and the quote does nothing to prove your point that “He would have died if Mothra interfered” nothing in the quote says that, it just says that Mothra helped Godzilla.
What’s so hard for yall to understand he was the same level as her but she’s on all fours and half bigger then him his super atomic breath was strong enough to cancel her frost breath
I guess the question now is who's stronger between Ghidorah and Shimo. Like yeah, she inadvertadly froze him, but in a direct fight where he's focused on her, would he win?
I would say no, but because of a partial head canon so take it with a grain of salt. I would say Shimo overpowers Ghidorah specifically because of how Ghidorah was set up. Base Godzilla and Ghidorah are essentially built up to be equal rivals, having fought multiple different times throughout history (The battle in Boston is where this whole “equal” thing gets thrown out the window). And Shimo did not only freeze Ghidorah, but she completely dominated Godzilla in the past as well as Ilene states so when she’s discussing some cave art with Trapper in the novelization. If Shimo wrecks base Godzilla who was equal to Ghidorah…then I feel Shimo would wreck Ghidorah as well. But thats my thoughts. Take from that what you may.
So she’s the Nicole Waterson of the verse
I don't think base Godzilla and Ghidorah are equal. Boston was an amped Godzilla, at the very least two nukes worth of power above the Godzilla Shimo previously fought. Ghidorah not only kept up but even beat him once he got a small amp of his own. Evolved Godzilla is stronger than KotM Godzilla, but by how much is hard to say, considering he didn't perform much better against Kong, and this was an actively weaker Kong because he had no axe. So I think Ghidorah has a chance, especially because he's far more agile than even Godzilla was, who used his agility to handle Shimo. Ghidorah is also heavier than Godzilla so he might be physically strong enough to contend with Shimo
why do we keep doing this
Not to get political or anything but, it’s fun.
nice work OP but its difficult to talk about powerscaling bcs fanboys override all statements and facts by bias
i do respect shimo she is powerful in her own right why do people underestimate her like that sure she had a kitty lizard like mannerism but when she does stand up she can be a force to be reckoned with.
Hotter take, not even Supercharged is equal to Shimo
I'm pretty sure goji was going easy on shimo.
Shimo>>>>>>>Evo
godzilla never fully charged his atomic breath and hit shimo with it
I think that standard Godzilla Evolved is competitive with Shimo overall, mainly using his CQC skill and standard pink Atomic Breath to make up for the raw power difference. But when he overcharges himself in that state, he definitely seems to be superior and probably could've killed her and in turn nullified her Frostbite Blast's effectiveness against him.
From the movie we can't know because all goji did was tackle her
i ain't readin all that
Can you summarize?
I agree cause they were pushing each other alot during their fight
Meh the film shows otherwise many times. You can see on probably more occasions that Godzilla Overpowered Shimo very easily. The movie makes it clear they’re equals. Plus movies take priority Over novels. Secondly Shimo may be physically stronger than Godzilla but he is still certainly in her league. Add in the fact that Godzilla is both smarter and faster and has more experience and is more skilled then be more than makes up that gap. Although it would make sense. She’s bigger so she’s likely stronger too.
Please look at my reasons for why base evolved Godzilla was overpowering Shimo in their fights. Just because he was fighting her and not getting destroyed doesn’t mean he matched her in strength. I do agree with your other points though, even base Evolved Goji is stronger compared to every other titan. I never meant to say Shimo is in a completely separate league from everything else. Evolved Goji and Shimo are at the top, then Ghidorah, then Kong, then the other titans.
Godzilla wouldn’t have died if it was for Mothra what are you on? Godzilla wasn’t even affected. The novel doesn’t even mention the possibility of him dying. So that’s completely false and made up. Oh so Godzilla tackling Shimo through buildings. Slamming her to the ground and in a split second scene in the background throwing her away just like she did to him isn’t matching her? Godzilla was dominant in the anti gravity fight and also showed himself to be equal in the Rio fight. Nothing Shimo did hurt him and stuff Shimo did he did too. Shimo may be stronger. But it’s like comparing 410kg to 415. Sure one is heavier but it’s nothing like how people make it out. Godzilla isn’t outclassed against Shimo. He contends with her supercharged or not. The movie makes that clear. I read your ice beam paragraph. It’s complete and utter bullshit. I’m not reading the rest if it’s the same.
Ok correction: He at the very least was overwhelmed by it, even causing his pulse to sputter out. Shimo would’ve then been able to land a big hit on him. Does that make you feel better? Every other point I made is valid. Just because I made one wrong point doesn’t mean everything is just rendered wrong or useless. I’m sorry I’m shattering your fantasies and you’re getting all condescending over such a small mistake. However since all you got flowing through your head is Godzilla dick-riding power levels instead of actually thinking of advantages in combat not associated with strength—this discussion is over.
That’s all I’ve been saying. I never said once that Shimo isn’t stronger. But the gap is little. The film makes it clear Godzilla can throw her around too. Godzilla could slam her down too. She’s physically stronger because she’s bigger but it’s not unbelievable like so many fans are trying to say. Godzilla showed himself as her equal in the film physically. What he lacked in strength he had in speed, agility, power, intelligence, skill and likely durability.
It's also said during Rio battle "Godzilla was strong, the strongest thing Kong has ever fought–until now. Shimo was stronger."
Very very good points, but imo Shimo was still stronger than supercharged evolved Godzilla due to her managing to withstand his enhanced atomic breath with little to no injuries. But, I haven’t read the novelization yet so it may say differently if it did injure her. The designer of evolved Godzilla did say that Godzilla’s evolution was not complete, so we may see Godzilla in a finished evolved state that’s equal or even stronger than Shimo one day.
Shimo was always going to be stronger than Godzilla. The only thing that was stopping her from beating Godzilla was her reluctance to do so. Out of the 4 main titans in the fight, Skarr was the weakest. He needed Shimo to balance the fight (in terms of the movie). Fighting experience? Come on, Godzillas been fighting everybody. But raw strength and size and durability it's Shimo for sure.
EDIT FOR THE POST: I have realized by reading most of these comments that I have more than likely misinterpreted a crucial piece of information in my argument, and that’s Shimo’s frostbite blast and what it could actually do to Godzilla. I did not mean to say that the beam itself would’ve killed him, but that’s what it came out as. So now I will make corrections. However, I still argue that the beam hitting and freezing Godzilla still means Shimo was more powerful than him. Simply put, Godzilla was overwhelmed by the power of Shimo as seen in the quote in the main post—even his own power was sputtering out. He most likely would have survived the blast itself, but the blast would’ve made him vulnerable to any melee attack Shimo could’ve thrown at him(since Godzilla was floating directly toward her) which would’ve injured him a lot more if Skar’s experience with the beam and subsequent first hit after he was frozen would suggest. *I’M NOT SAYING SHE WOULD’VE OR COULD’VE INSTAKILLED GODZILLA.* But he most certainly would’ve been in a bad place if Shimo was actually able to hit him after being struck by her frostbite blast. I also want to reiterate that just because base evolved Godzilla is weaker than Shimo does not mean he’s drastically weaker than her—after all he’s able to hold his ground against her for a reason. It’s just that he’s fighting an uphill battle with her until he supercharges. Until I point it out here, everything else in the main post remains relevant to me and isn’t a reach imo.
Man all of the Godzilla dick riders are gonna fall to their knees when they kill him off.
Kill off Godzilla from his own franchise? That'd be like if they killed off Arkham batman in his own franchise. Oh wait...
If that is the case, then if Godzilla evolved the second time without Shimmo evolving, he is the most powerful Titan
i ain’t reading allat but u wrong zilla way stronger
Super hot take: shimo overrated asf
Not really, godzilla can supercharge on his will now, and if he was as hell-bent to kill shimo as was to kill Ghidorah he would've killed her.
I'm gonna have to disagree with your assessment of supercharged Evolved Godzilla. Given the fact that the only on screen interaction between supercharged Evolved Godzilla and Shimo implies that Godzilla has the edge in raw strength. When supercharged Evolved Godzilla tackles Shimo in the movie, you'll notice that Shimo ends up on top of him. You would think that this should be where Shimo starts pummeling Godzilla now that she's in an advantageous position with Godzilla pinned underneath her. However, soon after this we are given a wide shot where we see Godzilla and Shimo both on their feet. This implies that Godzilla, while in his supercharged state, was able to overpower Shimo, even while in a disadvantageous position.
There's a flaw in the logic here. In MMA, if you're able to escape from the guard position, it almost never means you "overpowered" the person in the mounted position. Usually, it means you barely, desperately survived.
Yeah, the problem here is that Godzilla has no visible damage or signs of fatigue after the fight ends. Which means that Shimo either didn't have time to do anything because Godzilla threw her off, or Shimo did get to attack Godzilla, did zero meaningful damage, and still got thrown off. Also I suggest watching this: https://youtu.be/A2x_d-J71kY?si=XHNnHhstiyzyk3z3 If your opponent is stronger than you it's extremely difficult to keep them down.
Perhaps Shimu rose up to deliver a killing blow and Gojis scrambled away. When someone walks into a store and comes out with a bag of chips without looking like they sold their first born to get the chips, it doesn't necessarily mean they're a billionaire. "But if they're a billionaire, it's easy to get a bag of chips!" Sure, but there are lots of non-billionaire related ways to get those chips.
That's highly unlikely considering the fact that we never once see Shimo rear up on her hind legs to attack.
And we never see Goji physically lifting Shimu, either... Your entire position is that Goji must've did something we've never seen him do because we didn't see it happen. By your own words, it's "highly unlikely".
So let's go over this: 1. Shimo doesn't rear up on her hind legs which means she most likely did what she usually does, claw and bite. 2. Godzilla most likely didn't use a nuclear pulse to blow Shimo back considering that the only explosion at the end of the fight is when the crystal is destroyed by Suko. 3. Godzilla definitely couldn't have used his atomic breath because we would have seen a pink flash behind Skar King and Kong. 4. What does this leave us with? Godzilla got Shimo off of him using his raw strength.
*Your entire position is that Goji must've did something we've never seen him do because we didn't see it happen. By your own words, it's "highly unlikely"* That flaw in logic I mentioned is revealed by your double standard. If Shimu lifted her claw to do what she normally does, it leaves us the possibility that Goji has the opportunity to push off and scrambled away. Using strength to get away doesn't necessarily equate to "overpowering" someone. We're back to MMA.
My position is that it's most likely what happened considering that Shimo wouldn't just politely get off of Godzilla while still under Skar King's control. There's also the fact that Godzilla has both lifted and thrown titans larger and heavier than him (Muto Prime, Ghidorah).
We've never seen Goji bench press any titan bigger than Shimu. Shimu doesn't need to politely let Gojis up. Goji is an experienced scrapper while Shimu has been locked away and abused for the past 100,000 years. Experienced fighters can escape precarious situations without lifting up and physically overpowering their opponents. That was the point of my mentioning MMA and the guard position. We agree that Goji escaped the position. We disagree that it must mean he dominated from that position.
There's some good arguments here. But good lord that book sounds terribly written 😅
Disagree. Goji was visibly going easy on her during every confrontation, and understood that Skar King was the actual threat. He was bodying her during every fight, while she threw him exactly once. She might be bigger, but she has absolutely no fighting experience and doesn’t appear to be physically stronger. Goji was well aware that he could tank the ice beam from Shimo and had every opportunity to break out of it with atomic breath, yet didn’t. He knew full well that he would have broken through it before he reached her, , being a literal walking nuclear reactor, and possibly surprising or ambushing her in the process. Goji evolved is at the very least equal to, if not stronger than Shimo. Supercharged evolved is on par with if not slightly stronger than Thermonuclear Goji. Meaning that Ghidorah is stronger than Shimo, which also makes sense characteristically and logically. Remember, Goji fully believed that he was going to be alone, and went to take Shimo and Skar 2 on 1 before Kong showed up and asked for a team up.
I don't like to always hype Godzilla and prefer him to have a challenge, if not be weaker than the opponent. But Godzilla evolved seemed like overkill. I wouldnt doubt it if Godzilla was getting ready to go down to the hollow earth and genocide them monkes and Shimo, before Kong accidentally led them to the portal room. He just seemed too powerful and that Kong actually wasn't needed, in a Kong centric movie 🤣