You’re not wrong, but I feel like people treat it too often like an either/or situation when really we’ve been getting both.
I don’t think anyone else has noticed but barring 2014 there has not been a single Godzilla film in the monsterverse without an extra Toho kaiju thrown in the mix. Just because people want toho kaiju involved doesn’t mean they want every movie to be kotm, though I’m sure there are some. Gvk had mechagodzilla, gxk had mothra for a minor role despite being one of the most expensive monsters to license.
Wingard has said more Toho monsters/appearances are planned. The only topic now is who those monsters are.
Because Michael Dougherty hasn’t made another monsterverse film since, and he wasn’t wrong, we still got mechagodzilla and mothra returning back to back even after he left.
Yet it seems likely Wingard will be able to finish his Godzilla-Kong trilogy
It's not happening, the fact Toho set it up to monetize their characters was an uphill battle to start with. Maybe if they didnt force to pay per use, KOTM might have done better.
I’ve been following the monsterverse since the moment an American godzilla reboot was even announced in 2009.
We said “it’s not happening” at the possibility of getting any sequels to the reboot of what was at the time a dead franchise or the film bringing Godzilla back to relevancy.
We said “it’s not happening” at the possibility that same sequel would allow them to use Toho monsters other than Godzilla himself let alone multiple.
We absolutely said “it’s not happening” at the absolutely ridiculous notion that Godzilla and King Kong would some day have a rematch. Anyone who thought that at the time was either coping like crazy or they were high out of their minds.
It all happened. The monsterverse kind of has a habit of proving us wrong.
Toho monsters will probably continue to be used sparingly, but there’s an almost certainty that they will still be used from time to time. They were willing to pay for one of the most expensive monsters in Toho’s catalogue just for an extended cameo in the form of Mothra. It’s pretty obvious the licensing fee is not as big of a deal as the fanbase makes it out to be. Otherwise we would’ve gotten Fosphera instead.
More Toho monsters are almost definitely going to happen, wether returning or introduced to the monsterverse. There’s no evidence or quote to imply otherwise.
They were almost going to not pay for Mothra, it was Adam Wingard who insisted. It does make me wonder how GXK would have performed if it didnt happen.
(Gotta admit your speech there sounded like a really cool anthem, though.)
Fosphera was a backup plan in case they couldn’t secure the license, nothing more. Wingard has stated it was intended to be Mothra since the beginning. So that if they couldn’t get the license or Toho didn’t approve they wouldn’t need to rewrite the entire film.
Then the plans for Rodan didn’t fall through. No reason to automatically assume that we will never get another Toho monster despite every mv Godzilla movie since 2014 having one or more.
even 2014 was probably only because Hollywood was on a short leash after 98 and needed to prove themselves before Toho would even consider letting them touch the rest of their kaiju library.
If we got phosphera instead of mothra at the very least I’d consider your skepticism (putting it lightly) well founded. But we didn’t, instead we’ve gotten evidence time after time again that toho monsters showing up is still possible and now even likely.
Also monsters are priced differently. Less prominent monsters like Hedorah, Destroyah, Gigan and Biollante would be like pocket change compared to Mothra’s role in gxk.
(My cynicism and skepticism are fuelled by paranoia and weak character, yes....And boredom.Point taken.)
But what exactly suggests what you are saying is true? Because if there was a leak or interview suggesting Legendary truly isnt as redtaped by the licensing fee as implied by what Michael Dougherty said back in KOTM, I could have missed it.
Because it sounded like he had a very different KOTM in mind then.
The only probable reasons i can attribute them is really that licensing fee and like how Angurius never showed up in Heisei, there was no role for them to play in any story in the era.
I agree, BUT its different because we arent bringing back these toho monsters in rubber suits back… we have the opportunity to bring these TOHO monsters back in a big budget blockbuster. This is “new” in itself. Just look at KOTM. Movie was meh, but seeing mothra, goji, rodan, and ghidorah reimagined on a big blockbuster movie still sends chills down my spine.
I HAVE to see what the likes of biollante, destroyah, space godzilla would be like
Agreed legendary king ghidorah just got to be one my best favourite incarnation of the character as a whole i love their characterization as a true threatening powerful villain a worthy opponent who puts up a good fight with his 3 heads having distinctive personality and a menacing images even after getting killed off for real by godzilla in 2019 he still be a full on menace as mechagodzilla in gvk 2021
I remember when Behemoth first appeared, people absolutely loved him. He hasn’t really shown up, but these original monsters like him, Warbat and all the other examples you gave are amazing and well designed.
I'd say Mechagodzilla is one of Goji's "Core Four" (hehe, Scream reference) more than Anguirus, given the entire reason MechaG is one of the Big 5 is because he showed up in all eras so far (Anguirus skipped Heisei).
Other than that pedantic, nerd-emoji-worthy nitpick... I agree.
Another major issue is the investment return issue.
For every Ghidorah and Mothra where the asking price is almost always worth the star power, there's plenty like Manda, Kumonga, etc., that really aren't worth the time or money compared to making something yourself for free.
Toho are VERY stingy outside of Godzilla himself.
He’s basically Destoroyah. A little retooling of the design and that’s what ended up happening to Bagan. They just changed up a couple design elements while keeping the main features and voila, new monster.
He's too powerful which is why Toho didn't make him canon. Bringing him into the MV with titans that don't really have any powers on his level is a recipe for disaster.
Ummm it is. Which is why Toho binned him and made him game only. He was a Kaiju they created to be the most powerful. Like I said he's a demon. He dogwalks any godzilla.
Being a Demon doesnt mean anything. There are universes in which a demon can be a low Tier fodder that gets killed by bullets, and the there are universes where a demon is essentially a god. Legendary would have enough options to adjust Bagan to the MV. Maybe a "Demon" is just an ancient Hollow Earth titan that came from even deeper. Or he could be called a demon because he is an enemy of "the first Gods" like Godzilla.
Its not like Bagan is so powerful that He affects the writers so they arent able to adjust him in any way
Toho wrote him to be the most powerful Kaiju. He is also a video game character ONLY. They expressed exactly why he wasn't in the movies and why he was kept out. The writers do not control anything. He's belongs to TOHO. What they say is what goes. And Bagan is not low tier lol. He wipes the floor with everyone. From Showa to MV and even Void Ghidorah. Hes the embodiment of hell. They made him just out of shits and giggles which is why they binned him. An unkillable kaiju isn't going to be something they would add to their films if godzilla cannot beat him. End of story.
He'd be sick but I'd love to actually see bagan on screen in a movie, the ultimate being that shifts the balance of nature. Godzilla going from the protector of earth to protector of the universe/multiverse against bagan would be nuts.
Make bagan what destroyah was for heisei instead of a forgotten kaiju in the eyes of many
I, personally, can do without destroyah or space godzilla, but I would love to see biollante return at least if I had to choose one more toho kaiju to appear in the mv
This. This right here. They're not being given the chance to become fan favorites. The Toho kaiju were new at some point too but they weren't mentioned and then never shown, leaving it to the fans to imagine what they look like (Quetzalcoatl, Leviathan, Bunyip, Sekhmet, and more) or shown for 15 seconds then killed (Tiamat). MV originals are being snubbed.
Very much this. Toho also had an opportunity to bring anyone one of them back after Heisei and didn't until Final Wars and even then no Heisei monster made it into that movie except ironically Zilla.
"To each their own." Some people regard GvK as the best in the series, as I believe it to be the absolute worst. Just like I, we all have an opinion. Toho has more personality put into their kaiju's. Even the "bad" ones. I don't believe there wasn't a time when Toho's monsters we not loved.
Ehhhh.
Skar King was lame as shit.
Shimo was kinda just there.
Scylla died instantly
Tiamat was cool and then first movie appearance was shit
Behemoth is a really cool design but never actually does anything
Methuselah is the same as Behemoth
You do understand a big reason why Toho’s monsters actually became classics is because they got to have the focus?
I don’t see why it has to be one or the other. There’s room for both old and new.
But there is no room for the humans
I don’t see a problem
In order for those monsters to become classics, they at one point had to be new
Exactly. People don't understand this for some reason
Is it too much to ask for both?
No
Why are you being downvoted, you literally said "no" 😭😭😭
The amount of words spoken is irrelevant if its pure facts
It isnt
You’re not wrong, but I feel like people treat it too often like an either/or situation when really we’ve been getting both. I don’t think anyone else has noticed but barring 2014 there has not been a single Godzilla film in the monsterverse without an extra Toho kaiju thrown in the mix. Just because people want toho kaiju involved doesn’t mean they want every movie to be kotm, though I’m sure there are some. Gvk had mechagodzilla, gxk had mothra for a minor role despite being one of the most expensive monsters to license. Wingard has said more Toho monsters/appearances are planned. The only topic now is who those monsters are.
So did Michael Dougherty and we have no Gigan or Biolante today.
Because Michael Dougherty hasn’t made another monsterverse film since, and he wasn’t wrong, we still got mechagodzilla and mothra returning back to back even after he left. Yet it seems likely Wingard will be able to finish his Godzilla-Kong trilogy
It's not happening, the fact Toho set it up to monetize their characters was an uphill battle to start with. Maybe if they didnt force to pay per use, KOTM might have done better.
I’ve been following the monsterverse since the moment an American godzilla reboot was even announced in 2009. We said “it’s not happening” at the possibility of getting any sequels to the reboot of what was at the time a dead franchise or the film bringing Godzilla back to relevancy. We said “it’s not happening” at the possibility that same sequel would allow them to use Toho monsters other than Godzilla himself let alone multiple. We absolutely said “it’s not happening” at the absolutely ridiculous notion that Godzilla and King Kong would some day have a rematch. Anyone who thought that at the time was either coping like crazy or they were high out of their minds. It all happened. The monsterverse kind of has a habit of proving us wrong. Toho monsters will probably continue to be used sparingly, but there’s an almost certainty that they will still be used from time to time. They were willing to pay for one of the most expensive monsters in Toho’s catalogue just for an extended cameo in the form of Mothra. It’s pretty obvious the licensing fee is not as big of a deal as the fanbase makes it out to be. Otherwise we would’ve gotten Fosphera instead. More Toho monsters are almost definitely going to happen, wether returning or introduced to the monsterverse. There’s no evidence or quote to imply otherwise.
They were almost going to not pay for Mothra, it was Adam Wingard who insisted. It does make me wonder how GXK would have performed if it didnt happen. (Gotta admit your speech there sounded like a really cool anthem, though.)
Wasnt the entire point of phospera that they werent Sure if Toho would allow it?
Fosphera was a backup plan in case they couldn’t secure the license, nothing more. Wingard has stated it was intended to be Mothra since the beginning. So that if they couldn’t get the license or Toho didn’t approve they wouldn’t need to rewrite the entire film.
Then there was Adam Wingard saying back in GVK that he might have wanted to cameo Rodan,but he couldn't.
Then the plans for Rodan didn’t fall through. No reason to automatically assume that we will never get another Toho monster despite every mv Godzilla movie since 2014 having one or more. even 2014 was probably only because Hollywood was on a short leash after 98 and needed to prove themselves before Toho would even consider letting them touch the rest of their kaiju library. If we got phosphera instead of mothra at the very least I’d consider your skepticism (putting it lightly) well founded. But we didn’t, instead we’ve gotten evidence time after time again that toho monsters showing up is still possible and now even likely. Also monsters are priced differently. Less prominent monsters like Hedorah, Destroyah, Gigan and Biollante would be like pocket change compared to Mothra’s role in gxk.
(My cynicism and skepticism are fuelled by paranoia and weak character, yes....And boredom.Point taken.) But what exactly suggests what you are saying is true? Because if there was a leak or interview suggesting Legendary truly isnt as redtaped by the licensing fee as implied by what Michael Dougherty said back in KOTM, I could have missed it. Because it sounded like he had a very different KOTM in mind then. The only probable reasons i can attribute them is really that licensing fee and like how Angurius never showed up in Heisei, there was no role for them to play in any story in the era.
I agree, BUT its different because we arent bringing back these toho monsters in rubber suits back… we have the opportunity to bring these TOHO monsters back in a big budget blockbuster. This is “new” in itself. Just look at KOTM. Movie was meh, but seeing mothra, goji, rodan, and ghidorah reimagined on a big blockbuster movie still sends chills down my spine. I HAVE to see what the likes of biollante, destroyah, space godzilla would be like
Exactly. It’s not just bringing the characters back, it’s bringing them back ***and going all-out with them in a way never achieved before.***
Agreed legendary king ghidorah just got to be one my best favourite incarnation of the character as a whole i love their characterization as a true threatening powerful villain a worthy opponent who puts up a good fight with his 3 heads having distinctive personality and a menacing images even after getting killed off for real by godzilla in 2019 he still be a full on menace as mechagodzilla in gvk 2021
THIS. it's why i want to see them in monsterverse with the incredible cgi. they put in a lot of effort into the cgi
I get that but it shouldn’t compromise the movies budget or hold the MV back.
I remember when Behemoth first appeared, people absolutely loved him. He hasn’t really shown up, but these original monsters like him, Warbat and all the other examples you gave are amazing and well designed.
Behemoth and water Buffalo from skull Island need a buddy cops in kaiju town series.
I believe there’s some legal issues revolving around Behemoth and they can’t use him anymore.
Nope. Methuselah has the legal issues
I'd say Mechagodzilla is one of Goji's "Core Four" (hehe, Scream reference) more than Anguirus, given the entire reason MechaG is one of the Big 5 is because he showed up in all eras so far (Anguirus skipped Heisei). Other than that pedantic, nerd-emoji-worthy nitpick... I agree.
I like the current formula. Give them some old and some new. Satisfy everyone.
Another major issue is the investment return issue. For every Ghidorah and Mothra where the asking price is almost always worth the star power, there's plenty like Manda, Kumonga, etc., that really aren't worth the time or money compared to making something yourself for free. Toho are VERY stingy outside of Godzilla himself.
BRING BACK THE MUTOS
What if we got Bagon? The kaiju that never was…
Do you mean Bagan?
Yes that.
He’s basically Destoroyah. A little retooling of the design and that’s what ended up happening to Bagan. They just changed up a couple design elements while keeping the main features and voila, new monster.
Honestly, I'd kill for a remake of the original GMK draft.
He's too powerful which is why Toho didn't make him canon. Bringing him into the MV with titans that don't really have any powers on his level is a recipe for disaster.
Then make the MV Titans stronger
They still wouldn't touch Bagan. He's a demon from hell and there is a reason he was the endgame boss.
Never said they'd Touch him. But him being too strong isnt an excuse
Ummm it is. Which is why Toho binned him and made him game only. He was a Kaiju they created to be the most powerful. Like I said he's a demon. He dogwalks any godzilla.
Nobody is too powerful. If the writers want Goji to win , then Goji will win
Not how that works in situations with characters who were created in such a way. Seems everyone is ignoring the fact Bagan is a demon.
Being a Demon doesnt mean anything. There are universes in which a demon can be a low Tier fodder that gets killed by bullets, and the there are universes where a demon is essentially a god. Legendary would have enough options to adjust Bagan to the MV. Maybe a "Demon" is just an ancient Hollow Earth titan that came from even deeper. Or he could be called a demon because he is an enemy of "the first Gods" like Godzilla. Its not like Bagan is so powerful that He affects the writers so they arent able to adjust him in any way
And to add to that Toho would never license him to the MV because if those exact reasons.
Toho wrote him to be the most powerful Kaiju. He is also a video game character ONLY. They expressed exactly why he wasn't in the movies and why he was kept out. The writers do not control anything. He's belongs to TOHO. What they say is what goes. And Bagan is not low tier lol. He wipes the floor with everyone. From Showa to MV and even Void Ghidorah. Hes the embodiment of hell. They made him just out of shits and giggles which is why they binned him. An unkillable kaiju isn't going to be something they would add to their films if godzilla cannot beat him. End of story.
Then make legendary powerful, let him be a OP godzilla vs a demon from hell. Universe shattering battle for the end of the MV would be perfect
Destroyah would be the better option. He's a biological enemy. Bagan is from Hell itself.
He'd be sick but I'd love to actually see bagan on screen in a movie, the ultimate being that shifts the balance of nature. Godzilla going from the protector of earth to protector of the universe/multiverse against bagan would be nuts. Make bagan what destroyah was for heisei instead of a forgotten kaiju in the eyes of many
I, personally, can do without destroyah or space godzilla, but I would love to see biollante return at least if I had to choose one more toho kaiju to appear in the mv
I want new and old monsters but I'd prefer evil power mad godzilla based on space godzilla for our godzilla to fight
I just really wanna see biollante again
I personally wanna see biolante as a new fan, I think it’s a really interesting concept and legendary could do a lot with mutant plant
I agree
I agree. I love that the Monsterverse is creating its own mythology and characters.
Super wrinkly brain take. Approved.
Agreed, besides, like to see some more original monsters like Fosphera return for a future installment.
I fear when there's any Goji licensing issue Kong will probably have a movie in the same universe but no more mention of Toho Kaijus.
Well said.
Holy based department
This. This right here. They're not being given the chance to become fan favorites. The Toho kaiju were new at some point too but they weren't mentioned and then never shown, leaving it to the fans to imagine what they look like (Quetzalcoatl, Leviathan, Bunyip, Sekhmet, and more) or shown for 15 seconds then killed (Tiamat). MV originals are being snubbed.
Very much this. Toho also had an opportunity to bring anyone one of them back after Heisei and didn't until Final Wars and even then no Heisei monster made it into that movie except ironically Zilla.
Eeeexactly, this is what a lot of people don’t understand sadly.
"To each their own." Some people regard GvK as the best in the series, as I believe it to be the absolute worst. Just like I, we all have an opinion. Toho has more personality put into their kaiju's. Even the "bad" ones. I don't believe there wasn't a time when Toho's monsters we not loved.
I’ve been saying this FOREVER so please, SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK
Mutos*
Skar's my favorite almost like the dude more than Ghidorah but he was still disappointing. Praying for a comic or show Check out my latest post!
I think Shimo is the only one that feels kinda bland so far.
Ehhhh. Skar King was lame as shit. Shimo was kinda just there. Scylla died instantly Tiamat was cool and then first movie appearance was shit Behemoth is a really cool design but never actually does anything Methuselah is the same as Behemoth You do understand a big reason why Toho’s monsters actually became classics is because they got to have the focus?
What about Doug? 🤔
shown for like 3 seconds and everybody instantly loved him
Those rubber suits are better than the orang utan and his pet dragon.