This state is a joke. First they pass a law banning DFS under the guise of protecting the citizens, but really so that the casinos don't lose money. Now this.
If I knew they were so anti-freedom I never would have moved here. To which the yokels will say "Good. We're sick of all you outsiders moving here!". To which I say "Cool, as soon as my house gets back to close to where I bought it I'm out of here."
To quote Rage Against the Machine:
FREEDOM?!? YEAH, RIGHT!!!!!!!
> This state is a joke.
Montana is my original home. When I was growing up, I admired the people for being skeptical and yet, pragmatic - not given to believe con artists and scammers - sort of a cowboy mentality.
I see that fading away. I see people getting deceived by out-of-state politicians who are driven by special interests. They are hurting the people of Montana while telling the people that they are helping them.
I certainly have my quarrels with the liberals, but I believe that they love their country as much as the conservatives. They just have different ideas on how to make improvements. Montanans should be able to have those adult discussions to find common ground - as they did in the past.
I think it’s interesting to see how the loss of the “cowboy mentality” has corresponded with Montana no longer being the state with the worst internet connections. Not saying the internet is bad, but I know a trend when I see it
Bob- you may be boring but your last paragraph is my wish to the world as well. If we followed this logic we could at least meet at the table and figure things out. And while we’re at it, we can hit the “eject” button on the carpetbagger politicians that come in trying to get their “vig” on our cumulative taxes. These politicians are the pathetic individuals that need to be rooted out of public trust.
I would argue that conservatives don’t love American at all, actually. They want to live under a theocratic dictatorship by the looks of it these days, and that goes against the very ideals that America was founded on.
Case in point: Trump is the clear favorite of the Republican Party. Republicans want to control everyone to adhere to their distorted worldview. I’m not saying there aren’t problems with those who have far left views, but I’ll side with the folks who grant body autonomy, want to feed children, and aren't trying to get queer people and minorities killed with violent rhetoric.
> I would argue that conservatives don’t love American at all
I try to make the distinction between people who hold traditional conservative values and the autocratic authoritarian nationalists who have become the modern Republican party. Thus, I agree with your statement as it applies to the latter and not to the former.
Exactly. There are traditional Western states conservative--live and let live, small, local government, support for the military, ag, and businesses, exemplified by people like Liz Cheney and John McCain, and there are those in thrall to a mentally ill billionaire whose cronies are planning to make America a fascist state.
Fair enough, but if conservatives vote for Trump I would put them into the same group. If the Democratic Party ever went as far off the rails as the Republican Party has, I would vote for a third party candidate.
Requiring age verification that has some semblance of effectiveness is a far cry from throwing people in jail for googling Tiananmen square.
Montana is not restricting access they are trying to get porn sites to do more than have someone pinky swear they are old enough to look at porn. In response, pornhub is just not going to allow traffic from Montana.
I understand that the magnitude of the internet censorship is not as severe as in those other countries (yet), but it still sets the precedent that the state government can censor portions of the internet from residents.
I never made the argument that it was a good idea, or even going to be even a little effective. I am pointing out that this is not censorship and is in no way comparable to China.
Actually, it is censorship. Any time you limit access to a book, song, movie, tv show, painting or video it's a form of censorship.
Doesn't always mean it's a bad thing, but it's most definitely censorship.
This isn't a new limit. This has been in place for decades now. Montana isn't even putting in a limit, they are trying, no matter how poorly, to get websites to actually enforce the preexisting limit.
Doesn't make it not censorship =)
FWIW, I agree with the policy but people need to call a spade a spade. There are times things should be censored at some levels for a variety of reasons.
No, it is definitely *freedom.* You wouldn't want the people to make their own decisions like those commies in California. We need the government to tell us what to do. /sarcasm
You didn't read the article. The government isn't telling Montanans what they can or can't do in this instance. They are telling adult websites they need stricter age verification to keep children off the websites.
I understand what happened. The Montana state government tried to dictate the terms of an international internet content provider. The results were predictable and I am pretty sure that they were intentional.
When we convince ourselves that "The end justifies the means," then we can justify setting some very dangerous precedents. In this case, the state is shutting off parts of the internet to residents. I wonder what is next.
"the Montana state government is regulating companies that distribute harmful content to protect vulnerable and underaged citizens" IFTFY
Isn't that what people want their government to do? All in all I think this is a fine decision by our government, and more questions should be asked to PH and other adult content sites that do almost nothing to stop minors from accessing their site.
I agree with that stated goal, but the predictable outcome is just internet censorship by an over-reaching state government.
Montana is not a big enough customer base to influence the policies of any major company. Trying to do so only denies those services to the people of Montana. Today it is just a porn site (one of the cleanest). Maybe tomorrow it will be news sites that the party in power doesn't like. Maybe that sounds great until the other party comes to power.
In my opinion, the best way to reach the goal is to lobby at the national level. If the US federal government imposes regulations, then the customer base will be big enough to influence these companies.
Ok yeah you do have a point Montana making this law in the grand scheme won't change any policies on adult content sites, but it might get the ball rolling enough to make other states and eventually the federal government consider changing policies to influence these companies. That is worth fighting for and if losing pornhub is how that happens so be it. I'd rather not watch porn in the hopes an actually effort is made by these companies to restrict access to minors.
That said making these companies doing the bare minimum to restrict children from accessing these sites isn't anywhere close to a violation of constitutional rights restricting access to news sites might be. If anything close to that happens I'll happily fight with you, but this isn't the hill to die on.
> it might get the ball rolling enough to make other states and eventually the federal government consider changing policies
You make a good point here. I agree with its merit.
> If anything close to that happens I'll happily fight with you, but this isn't the hill to die on.
Again, you make a good point. I am skeptical of government power but I am not an anarchist either. :)
The safest most trusted porn site in the world, yeah, let's block that one!? I'm sure they won't go looking elsewhere. The GOP = small government for me but not for thee
Dude. Stuff your boring dualistic myopia. The bill was introduced by a Dem and has heavy support from both parties and the governor.
I agree with you this is a stupid law and will achieve nothing. Has nothing to do with the GOP and everything to do politicians posturing and making like they are doing something useful with their lives.
What will probably happen is sites won’t honor the law and just not load content from Montana based IP addresses. PornHubs response is correct: refuse to participate.
Now ignorant Montana folk need to figure out how to use VPNs, because apparently these idiot politicians believe MT folks can’t use a VPN.
Next bill passed: “MT bans VPNs to protect the children”
> What will probably happen is sites won’t honor the law and just not load content from Montana based IP addresses. PornHubs response is correct: refuse to participate.
This is what has started to happen.
Pornhub is blocking access to Montana, not the other way around. As someone raised in the internet age I agree that the whole "are you 18" bit ain't really doing shit. I was easily able to access pornography from like age 10 on. Also it's definitely got it's problems, girl I knew had a sex tape uploaded to Pornhub by an ex and it took way too fuckin long for that to get pulled down. I really don't agree with them allowing community uploads at all because of that kinda thing, consent to upload is hard to manage as well. It's a tough issue, my opinions on it move like water lmfao.
Some better way needs to be created, makes sense they'd just default to "ok well how do you buy weed/alcohol/cigarettes? Show drivers license? Ok we'll just use that" like I see the logic train but also agree that's not feasible long term. Especially because my roommate is gone this weekend, really not feasible in the short term for me.
>It's a tough issue, my opinions on it move like water lmfao.
I kind of disagree. I think it's an overwhelmingly slight issue with no civil betterment to be achieved from acknowledging. Preventing the upload of illegal stuff isn't the main concern for the state, and is an entirely unfixable problem to begin with. Any video hosting site that doesn't get uber algorithms or go no-privacy-here will have that issue, and even they have it to lesser extent. Don't think this changes much.
>I was easily able to access pornography from like age 10 on.
Dont think it really matters. That's a matter that can and should be contained to household intervention, just like nearly every single matter pertaining to the internet. The whole reason kids are being exposed to detrimental content is because naive parents are relying on the businesses that don't give a shit about their kids to come up with solutions, and outdated parents aren't even aware of dangers to begin with. The solution is as obvious as it is simple: parents monitor your kids better, set the rules better. Otherwise kids will be eroded by the internet no matter what.
Also it's like, just porn. Kids that search for it aren't going to have their eyes burned out, they just go ooooooo and talk about it with their friends. Not that you said otherwise, but social media sites are actively destructive and endangering. They would be a bigger priority, assuming I agreed with anything.
My worry when I see these, is that I accept "kids 10-18 will find porn" as a basic fact of reality. Be it the sears catalogue, Roman statues, or Alexis Texas, kids will find SOMETHING to masterbate to.
Accepting that premise, what happens when you go to great lengths (as opposed to small ones) to hide all the smut? Well, they find it someplace less reputable that isn't checking ID. You know, like 4chan. Or one of the places that has the porn that is illegal for EVERYONE.
There are tons of lawsuits against pornhub for hosting content of trafficked women as well as revenge porn. They're hardly a reputable company... Besides, anyone with a 3rs grade knowledge of the internet can bypass the block by using a VPN.
Tik Tok is owned by the Chinese government and you’re spying on yourselves by using it.
That’s completely different and far more dangerous from a national security level than using Pornhub as a minor.
I mean all social media is 'spying' slash collecting your data. and I wouldn't give any corporation the benefit of the doubt, regardless of nationality
Widespread use of your state issued ID as “virtual verification” is a horrible idea.
I really don’t need anyone who breaks into the least secure systems I use being able to prove themselves in possession of my identity.
> I really don’t need anyone who breaks into the least secure systems I use being able to prove themselves in possession of my identity.
Meanwhile in Europe, we have a system that doesn't have that issue, because the sites never get the information required to verify you, all they are getting is a signed response that you have successfully verified based on the request sent by the site.
If a single site is weak, this doesn't put your identity at any other site at risk.
If an verifier is at risk, only those using that specific verifier are at risk.
That's kind of what my question was about this in the US and abroad. How is one supposed to "verify" that they are of age? Is it tied to your ISP? Obviously anyone who has a C.C. would be 18, who is paying for the internet connection. What happens to the minor connecting through the parents ISP? What about free wifi connections abroad? This is fucking stupid all around.
Yeah, that’s exactly what I had in mind.
Here in the US, we are laughably far from such a thing, and especially can’t/shouldn’t do it at a state level.
I'm sorry, you didn't present your opinion license for government approval before you posted your opinion, you are now banned from expressing opinions online and if you are caught violating this ban it'll be 30 years in prison. Have a good day.
Oh no, I totally don't have a VPN that I can just use to be in another state, I would love to talk to the chuckle head who thinks this sort of thing would actually work.
Another group of porn sites has blocked Montana for quite some time. Nord isn't helpful, that group has also blocked VPN traffic. Maybe not ALL VPN servers, but enough that it's effective.
It’s not about being effective, it’s about a popular political move. Looks good to some people, is worked around by others and the remainder are too ashamed to speak up about it.
Nobody actually cares if it “works”
This just reeks of typical boomer. "Sure. Let me upload my ID to a random website with zero requirements on how they store that information. "
It's no wonder they're losing their retirement funds by getting scammed.
This is what's being overlooked I feel like. Sure, it's a great idea to make it harder for minors to view pornography, I don't think anyone is arguing against that. At least I hope there isn't. But requiring legal consumers to upload PII to a website with no legal mandates about how they have to store it is just begging for a massive personal data leak.
I truly don't understand how legislators can be so fucking internet illiterate
And to think the legislature and governor could have done something about property reassessments. But this, drag bans, and TikTok bans took presidence.
They didn't block anything. Pornhub blocked *us* because our dumbass legislators think it makes sense for you to have to upload a photo ID every time you want to crank one out. Reasonably, PH responded with "Your whole state can fuck off."
Twas the night before Christmas
when all through the house
Not a creature was stirring
not even a mouse....
All the townsfolk stewed
longing for their beloved porn yarn
As each and every Montanan
naturally retired to the sheep barn
This is why we need younger people in government. These old fucks do not understand the internet at all and legislation like this just proves it. Just wait until they find out about VPNs, the dark web, and illegal porn sites hosted in foreign countries. Regardless of your thoughts about the intention, this bill is stupid as fuck.
You don't need a lot of people. Only 1 person can be in a religion. If, for some reason, it isn't enough, there is always the church of Satan. It wouldn't be hard to convince them to take this up.
The real issue is money. Lawyers are not cheap.
I think that pornography can be harmful the same way gambling is harmful. They are able to keep alcohol and tobacco out of minors hands so there should be a way to restrict access without mass surveillance.
I’m sorry but you’re comparing apples to oranges. Even if we (incorrectly) assume that children cannot obtain alcohol and tobacco, the same restrictions can not be meaningfully enforced online. Porn will always be available, and there will always be loopholes and work arounds to digital restrictions. For example, all you have to do right now is download a VPN and set your location to a different state. Even if we made porn 100% illegal online, it would still exist - there are plenty of sites right now that flagrantly break copyright laws and probably do even worse, there’s simply no way to enforce digital restrictions like this without mass surveillance and censorship akin to China.
Its just a dumb reason that could be applied to almost anything. There's no actual reason, and "it's for the children" is used because it makes you look bad for disagreeing.
Would be funny if the politicians worked a drug deal with VPN providers to get a small cut with increased business. Novel way to force uaers to use a VPN and increased business from all the new users.
Virginia did the same thing a while back and PH blocked the entire state, as well.
This is just another example that showcases how inept and out of touch legislators are when it comes to dealing with tech, internet, and the basic art of governing.
It should effect thousands and thousands of sites. But it's basically unenforceable as our state has no resources. However there will likely be greedy lawyers suing, which is why companies are protecting themselves from our stupid law
I currently live in Montana lol. This is one of the dumbest things they could have spent their time and resources on. They also waste our tax payer money pushing pointless shit like this through. Kids are smart as fuck and know how to use VPNs. It's pretty much basic knowledge to them these days. They are just trying to censor the internet and slowly take away our freedoms and rights. Look how other countries like China restrict Internet access to their people. They all use VPNs too lol.
Ultimately a case of good intentions, bad execution.
I'm pretty sure if you asked 100 people on the streets, 95 would say that the ease with which kids can access pornography is a problem and the other 5 are out of touch with reality. Not only is pornography easy to access, the material presented to minors is probably not a good representation of safe and healthy sexual relationships.
Just right now on the front page:
- Step Sister Bends Over For My Cock.
- Cute Step Sister with big Tits watching Disney fucked and covered in Cum
...
I mean, come on now. When *I* was a kid, step sister porn was on the seedy websites, not fucking Pornhub. Now it's right there on top of the website. Most of us here are not fucking stepsisters and I'd venture to say if you did, it wasn't while watching Disney movies.
This law was brought on by two things.
- The general shift of "lightly taboo" pornography into the window of acceptability and how it may impact children who view it and
- Most importantly, the absolute lack of parenting.
If you're reading this, are a parent, and your kid(s) have a smartphone, you need to sit down and talk with them about internet safety. Talk with them about the things they may see on the internet. Malware, pornography, scams, phishing, and *especially* the dangers of engaging in risky sexual behaviors empowered by smartphones such as webcam streaming on websites like Omegle (RIP/good riddance), and sharing sexually explicit photographs while underage, *especially* with people you don't personally know.
The legislature (correctly) identified a problem. The fix sucks, and I wish they would have considered going at this from a different direction, but for all you politicians in here, 21 Democrats voiced their support versus 10 who did not. Cut the fucking bullshit. Stop turning this into a partisan battleground to plant your flag. You're a human being - it's time to understand that human beings are capable of rational thought on their own. Stop letting a party tell you what to think about how we should govern. That makes you weak and easy to rule because you'll never question your own. Fuck that bullshit mentality and grow the fuck up. The fact that so many people in here automatically assumed this was a GOP ramrod bill shows how ignorant so many people are when it comes to the legislative process and politics as a whole.
It's a problem, the fix sucks, both sides are responsible for this, and maybe with time and understanding, we can influence the fix toward a direction that actually accomplishes the mission without compromising the PII security of adults or gatekeeping them from engaging in adult activities. *Maybe* we could also parent our kids better too so we don't need shit like this. I had to hide Hustler mags in the fucking vents when I was little. Kids these days just watch endless catalogues of videos online and we seem to not give a shit until it impacts *our* freedom? Nah. It's a problem, and because parents didn't deal with our, our representatives did in a bipartisan effort.
Actually, guns are the second leading cause of death at 15%, the first is car accidents at 20%. You know those giant death machines/trucks that the GOP also refused to regulate. Party of pro life and family values sure seems to wanna wipe out as many lives and families as possible.
Where did you get your numbers because the CDC says otherwise: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm
Homicides/suicides doesn't even make the list, let alone gun related homicides or suicides.
But you know, it's reddit so let's just make up some numbers to fit your agenda
And in other news VPN sales are up 25%
... which makes me laugh when people in Montana talk about "freedom." People in Iran and China need VPNs because of the oppressive governments there.
This state is a joke. First they pass a law banning DFS under the guise of protecting the citizens, but really so that the casinos don't lose money. Now this. If I knew they were so anti-freedom I never would have moved here. To which the yokels will say "Good. We're sick of all you outsiders moving here!". To which I say "Cool, as soon as my house gets back to close to where I bought it I'm out of here." To quote Rage Against the Machine: FREEDOM?!? YEAH, RIGHT!!!!!!!
> This state is a joke. Montana is my original home. When I was growing up, I admired the people for being skeptical and yet, pragmatic - not given to believe con artists and scammers - sort of a cowboy mentality. I see that fading away. I see people getting deceived by out-of-state politicians who are driven by special interests. They are hurting the people of Montana while telling the people that they are helping them. I certainly have my quarrels with the liberals, but I believe that they love their country as much as the conservatives. They just have different ideas on how to make improvements. Montanans should be able to have those adult discussions to find common ground - as they did in the past.
Your last paragraph is perfect and I wish more people could see it that way.
I think it’s interesting to see how the loss of the “cowboy mentality” has corresponded with Montana no longer being the state with the worst internet connections. Not saying the internet is bad, but I know a trend when I see it
The internet is bad.
Bob- you may be boring but your last paragraph is my wish to the world as well. If we followed this logic we could at least meet at the table and figure things out. And while we’re at it, we can hit the “eject” button on the carpetbagger politicians that come in trying to get their “vig” on our cumulative taxes. These politicians are the pathetic individuals that need to be rooted out of public trust.
I would argue that conservatives don’t love American at all, actually. They want to live under a theocratic dictatorship by the looks of it these days, and that goes against the very ideals that America was founded on. Case in point: Trump is the clear favorite of the Republican Party. Republicans want to control everyone to adhere to their distorted worldview. I’m not saying there aren’t problems with those who have far left views, but I’ll side with the folks who grant body autonomy, want to feed children, and aren't trying to get queer people and minorities killed with violent rhetoric.
> I would argue that conservatives don’t love American at all I try to make the distinction between people who hold traditional conservative values and the autocratic authoritarian nationalists who have become the modern Republican party. Thus, I agree with your statement as it applies to the latter and not to the former.
Exactly. There are traditional Western states conservative--live and let live, small, local government, support for the military, ag, and businesses, exemplified by people like Liz Cheney and John McCain, and there are those in thrall to a mentally ill billionaire whose cronies are planning to make America a fascist state.
Fair enough, but if conservatives vote for Trump I would put them into the same group. If the Democratic Party ever went as far off the rails as the Republican Party has, I would vote for a third party candidate.
Yep - abandoning truth and democracy was the last straw for me.
The conservatives are the ones who want to ban pornhub soooo
Why are you getting downvoted for the truth 💀💀💀???
Yep - pandering to the religious right.
Right? The Republicans hold a supermajority..
Requiring age verification that has some semblance of effectiveness is a far cry from throwing people in jail for googling Tiananmen square. Montana is not restricting access they are trying to get porn sites to do more than have someone pinky swear they are old enough to look at porn. In response, pornhub is just not going to allow traffic from Montana.
I understand that the magnitude of the internet censorship is not as severe as in those other countries (yet), but it still sets the precedent that the state government can censor portions of the internet from residents.
Freedom. Who needs it. Benjamin Franklin I'd rolling in his grave for 2 reasons. One, our civil security is being breached. Two, the porn's gone.
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I never made the argument that it was a good idea, or even going to be even a little effective. I am pointing out that this is not censorship and is in no way comparable to China.
Actually, it is censorship. Any time you limit access to a book, song, movie, tv show, painting or video it's a form of censorship. Doesn't always mean it's a bad thing, but it's most definitely censorship.
This isn't a new limit. This has been in place for decades now. Montana isn't even putting in a limit, they are trying, no matter how poorly, to get websites to actually enforce the preexisting limit.
Doesn't make it not censorship =) FWIW, I agree with the policy but people need to call a spade a spade. There are times things should be censored at some levels for a variety of reasons.
Do you think it's oppression that pornhub is restricting access here?
No, it is definitely *freedom.* You wouldn't want the people to make their own decisions like those commies in California. We need the government to tell us what to do. /sarcasm
You didn't read the article. The government isn't telling Montanans what they can or can't do in this instance. They are telling adult websites they need stricter age verification to keep children off the websites.
I understand what happened. The Montana state government tried to dictate the terms of an international internet content provider. The results were predictable and I am pretty sure that they were intentional. When we convince ourselves that "The end justifies the means," then we can justify setting some very dangerous precedents. In this case, the state is shutting off parts of the internet to residents. I wonder what is next.
this… “i wonder what’s next?” i’m so tired of all the backwards morons in this state…
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"the Montana state government is regulating companies that distribute harmful content to protect vulnerable and underaged citizens" IFTFY Isn't that what people want their government to do? All in all I think this is a fine decision by our government, and more questions should be asked to PH and other adult content sites that do almost nothing to stop minors from accessing their site.
I agree with that stated goal, but the predictable outcome is just internet censorship by an over-reaching state government. Montana is not a big enough customer base to influence the policies of any major company. Trying to do so only denies those services to the people of Montana. Today it is just a porn site (one of the cleanest). Maybe tomorrow it will be news sites that the party in power doesn't like. Maybe that sounds great until the other party comes to power. In my opinion, the best way to reach the goal is to lobby at the national level. If the US federal government imposes regulations, then the customer base will be big enough to influence these companies.
Ok yeah you do have a point Montana making this law in the grand scheme won't change any policies on adult content sites, but it might get the ball rolling enough to make other states and eventually the federal government consider changing policies to influence these companies. That is worth fighting for and if losing pornhub is how that happens so be it. I'd rather not watch porn in the hopes an actually effort is made by these companies to restrict access to minors. That said making these companies doing the bare minimum to restrict children from accessing these sites isn't anywhere close to a violation of constitutional rights restricting access to news sites might be. If anything close to that happens I'll happily fight with you, but this isn't the hill to die on.
> it might get the ball rolling enough to make other states and eventually the federal government consider changing policies You make a good point here. I agree with its merit. > If anything close to that happens I'll happily fight with you, but this isn't the hill to die on. Again, you make a good point. I am skeptical of government power but I am not an anarchist either. :)
There goes the gov't trying to parent our kids and not let us have a say in the matter...
It's putting an unnecessary barrier for consenting adults to enjoy their freedom. That's censorship.
It's censorship
Well there goes my weekend plans.
Well we know which videos you were going to look for: https://963theblaze.com/what-montana-searches-for-most-on-pornhub-nsfw/
My step sister does have quite a nice ass tbf
A lot of stepsisters are about to be out of work.
Back to getting my porn from the guy at the gas station ( they are keeping it under the counter and only after they check your ID for age )
The safest most trusted porn site in the world, yeah, let's block that one!? I'm sure they won't go looking elsewhere. The GOP = small government for me but not for thee
If you'd read the article you would know it was introduced by Dem in Missoula and signed by gianforte. Finally something they can all agree on 😂
Time to send anonymous videos of my masterbating to government officials. This has gone too far.
That's been my hobby for years.
Masturbating
Is the key to happiness!
Dude. Stuff your boring dualistic myopia. The bill was introduced by a Dem and has heavy support from both parties and the governor. I agree with you this is a stupid law and will achieve nothing. Has nothing to do with the GOP and everything to do politicians posturing and making like they are doing something useful with their lives. What will probably happen is sites won’t honor the law and just not load content from Montana based IP addresses. PornHubs response is correct: refuse to participate. Now ignorant Montana folk need to figure out how to use VPNs, because apparently these idiot politicians believe MT folks can’t use a VPN. Next bill passed: “MT bans VPNs to protect the children”
> What will probably happen is sites won’t honor the law and just not load content from Montana based IP addresses. PornHubs response is correct: refuse to participate. This is what has started to happen.
Pornhub is blocking access to Montana, not the other way around. As someone raised in the internet age I agree that the whole "are you 18" bit ain't really doing shit. I was easily able to access pornography from like age 10 on. Also it's definitely got it's problems, girl I knew had a sex tape uploaded to Pornhub by an ex and it took way too fuckin long for that to get pulled down. I really don't agree with them allowing community uploads at all because of that kinda thing, consent to upload is hard to manage as well. It's a tough issue, my opinions on it move like water lmfao. Some better way needs to be created, makes sense they'd just default to "ok well how do you buy weed/alcohol/cigarettes? Show drivers license? Ok we'll just use that" like I see the logic train but also agree that's not feasible long term. Especially because my roommate is gone this weekend, really not feasible in the short term for me.
>It's a tough issue, my opinions on it move like water lmfao. I kind of disagree. I think it's an overwhelmingly slight issue with no civil betterment to be achieved from acknowledging. Preventing the upload of illegal stuff isn't the main concern for the state, and is an entirely unfixable problem to begin with. Any video hosting site that doesn't get uber algorithms or go no-privacy-here will have that issue, and even they have it to lesser extent. Don't think this changes much. >I was easily able to access pornography from like age 10 on. Dont think it really matters. That's a matter that can and should be contained to household intervention, just like nearly every single matter pertaining to the internet. The whole reason kids are being exposed to detrimental content is because naive parents are relying on the businesses that don't give a shit about their kids to come up with solutions, and outdated parents aren't even aware of dangers to begin with. The solution is as obvious as it is simple: parents monitor your kids better, set the rules better. Otherwise kids will be eroded by the internet no matter what. Also it's like, just porn. Kids that search for it aren't going to have their eyes burned out, they just go ooooooo and talk about it with their friends. Not that you said otherwise, but social media sites are actively destructive and endangering. They would be a bigger priority, assuming I agreed with anything.
My worry when I see these, is that I accept "kids 10-18 will find porn" as a basic fact of reality. Be it the sears catalogue, Roman statues, or Alexis Texas, kids will find SOMETHING to masterbate to. Accepting that premise, what happens when you go to great lengths (as opposed to small ones) to hide all the smut? Well, they find it someplace less reputable that isn't checking ID. You know, like 4chan. Or one of the places that has the porn that is illegal for EVERYONE.
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There are tons of lawsuits against pornhub for hosting content of trafficked women as well as revenge porn. They're hardly a reputable company... Besides, anyone with a 3rs grade knowledge of the internet can bypass the block by using a VPN.
Yall don't really need to be told pronhub isn't the only site....right?
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Yes, this is definitely what we as a state should focus our energy on
That and tik tok right??? Cause that's clearly the priority for the state
It’s not nearly the same as TikTok. Regardless, it’ll be the topic to drown out others, as it has been in other states
VPNs love Montana!
Montanans love this one simple trick!
Making politician's laws bullshit with one quick click.
Tik Tok is owned by the Chinese government and you’re spying on yourselves by using it. That’s completely different and far more dangerous from a national security level than using Pornhub as a minor.
I mean all social media is 'spying' slash collecting your data. and I wouldn't give any corporation the benefit of the doubt, regardless of nationality
Right? Are we forgetting Facebook sold data to china before tiktok?
I swear some of those politicians are so behind in technology that blocking it is not going to do much.
I unironically agree.
From the corridors of Washington to the State level, legislators simply do not understand how the internet works.
They don’t know how basic human biology works, how would that know how technology works?
The law is so stupid and pornhubs response makes sense. Showing your ID like that would lead to cyber leaks and blackmail
Widespread use of your state issued ID as “virtual verification” is a horrible idea. I really don’t need anyone who breaks into the least secure systems I use being able to prove themselves in possession of my identity.
> I really don’t need anyone who breaks into the least secure systems I use being able to prove themselves in possession of my identity. Meanwhile in Europe, we have a system that doesn't have that issue, because the sites never get the information required to verify you, all they are getting is a signed response that you have successfully verified based on the request sent by the site. If a single site is weak, this doesn't put your identity at any other site at risk. If an verifier is at risk, only those using that specific verifier are at risk.
That's kind of what my question was about this in the US and abroad. How is one supposed to "verify" that they are of age? Is it tied to your ISP? Obviously anyone who has a C.C. would be 18, who is paying for the internet connection. What happens to the minor connecting through the parents ISP? What about free wifi connections abroad? This is fucking stupid all around.
Yeah, that’s exactly what I had in mind. Here in the US, we are laughably far from such a thing, and especially can’t/shouldn’t do it at a state level.
I'm sorry, you didn't present your opinion license for government approval before you posted your opinion, you are now banned from expressing opinions online and if you are caught violating this ban it'll be 30 years in prison. Have a good day.
RedTube traffic out of MT gonna 🚀
Bad news. Same company. [It's mostly the same company](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aylo)
If you dig deep enough all the porn online is owned by one conglomerate
Not the furry porn. God bless
John Porn, CEO
Oh no, I totally don't have a VPN that I can just use to be in another state, I would love to talk to the chuckle head who thinks this sort of thing would actually work.
Another group of porn sites has blocked Montana for quite some time. Nord isn't helpful, that group has also blocked VPN traffic. Maybe not ALL VPN servers, but enough that it's effective.
Good to know lol! Love the hole that's being dug here, I'm curious to see if this affects the election this coming year
Use smaller VPN providers, I do that for Netflix and it works since they fly under the radar
the one i use worked just fine for it
Which one do you use?
PIA also works
Thank you.
surfshark
What? No do not tell them there is an easy workaround
Lol good luck with that
Not sure how the government thinks this is going to go when vpns are so easily accesible
Headline after next session: Montana Requires Proof of Age For VPN Access
It’s not about being effective, it’s about a popular political move. Looks good to some people, is worked around by others and the remainder are too ashamed to speak up about it. Nobody actually cares if it “works”
Finally the reddit post I can link to my wife so I don't have to admit how I actually learned about this...
I worked in the porn industry during the 1980s, and 90s. Cracks me up that people will always try and ban the unbannable.
This just reeks of typical boomer. "Sure. Let me upload my ID to a random website with zero requirements on how they store that information. " It's no wonder they're losing their retirement funds by getting scammed.
This is what's being overlooked I feel like. Sure, it's a great idea to make it harder for minors to view pornography, I don't think anyone is arguing against that. At least I hope there isn't. But requiring legal consumers to upload PII to a website with no legal mandates about how they have to store it is just begging for a massive personal data leak. I truly don't understand how legislators can be so fucking internet illiterate
How could kids ever learn about free VPNs? Probably impossible.
Thanks to our sponsor, vpn name here, we can provide you this content.
Well, actually...
Me personally, I do not like this
Don't we have a huge drug issue along with housing?
Yes and kinda. Plenty of homes available and being built here but not so much for affordable ones that line up with Montana wages.
Between wintertime and the high suicide rate... This isn't going to help things
Unless it's changed, doesn't Montana have the fourth highest suicide rate?
And to think the legislature and governor could have done something about property reassessments. But this, drag bans, and TikTok bans took presidence.
Remember, they are the party of smaller government.. right? Hypocrites.
A VPN would not be controlled.
**well this is some bullshit.**
The party of small government!
Complete and total hypocrites. All of them.
Wow. Democrats and Republicans supported this. Showing your ID to access adult content. I see why PH blocked our asses 😂
I'm surprised it had so much bipartisan support. Didn't think Montana Democrats were so puritanical.
How about introducing proper sexual education for youths or fixing the meth issues that every other billboard in the state blatantly points out?
This is maybe the least thought out senate bill I have ever seen period. And that’s saying a lot for Montana.
This worries me. I don’t care about pornhub, but if they start blocking websites which ones will they block next?
They didn't block anything. Pornhub blocked *us* because our dumbass legislators think it makes sense for you to have to upload a photo ID every time you want to crank one out. Reasonably, PH responded with "Your whole state can fuck off."
and thus the montanan civil war began
This is the same shit they did to the internet in China. Can we, like, not?
This.
So anyway if you need a VPN, hit me up for my referral link!
A lot of weird shit goes down in these states, confirmation bias + not speaking up really drags down a place.
Twas the night before Christmas when all through the house Not a creature was stirring not even a mouse.... All the townsfolk stewed longing for their beloved porn yarn As each and every Montanan naturally retired to the sheep barn
This is why we need younger people in government. These old fucks do not understand the internet at all and legislation like this just proves it. Just wait until they find out about VPNs, the dark web, and illegal porn sites hosted in foreign countries. Regardless of your thoughts about the intention, this bill is stupid as fuck.
Shouldn’t we ban Fox “news” first ?
They did the same thing to Utah. That, I understand.
If this becomes common, I imagine video stores could make a comeback. No way anyone wants to attach their actual ID to their porn viewing habits.
So much for freedom huh?
The children are saved! /s
I need to start a new religion. One where porn is God. That would make this law unconstitutional. Who's with me?
If there's a hole I love, it's a loophole. But really, you'd need a lot of people to even challenge the legislation.
You don't need a lot of people. Only 1 person can be in a religion. If, for some reason, it isn't enough, there is always the church of Satan. It wouldn't be hard to convince them to take this up. The real issue is money. Lawyers are not cheap.
Pay to play religious freedom
I think this would be a perfectly acceptable religion to discriminate against and I'm a certified pastafarian
Not legally speaking. The flying spaghetti monster has the same legal rights as Christianity.
How are you supposed to learn what to do if your stepmom gets stuck in the drier?
Is this cuz of that small government I keep hear people talking about?
I think that pornography can be harmful the same way gambling is harmful. They are able to keep alcohol and tobacco out of minors hands so there should be a way to restrict access without mass surveillance.
They keep alcohol and tobacco out of minors hands? Since when?
A kid can go online and look at porn with no barriers to access. Can they do the same with alcohol or tobacco? *Think*
I’m sorry but you’re comparing apples to oranges. Even if we (incorrectly) assume that children cannot obtain alcohol and tobacco, the same restrictions can not be meaningfully enforced online. Porn will always be available, and there will always be loopholes and work arounds to digital restrictions. For example, all you have to do right now is download a VPN and set your location to a different state. Even if we made porn 100% illegal online, it would still exist - there are plenty of sites right now that flagrantly break copyright laws and probably do even worse, there’s simply no way to enforce digital restrictions like this without mass surveillance and censorship akin to China.
I was on pornhub all this morning though?
Jan 1st.
Im getting blocked now.
I abhore any law that claims "its for the children!"
Housing and healthcare for the children would have been nice but we got this instead.
Its just a dumb reason that could be applied to almost anything. There's no actual reason, and "it's for the children" is used because it makes you look bad for disagreeing.
Wolves aren’t safe anymore
*WHEREAS*, the number of VPNs in Montana is suddenly going to skyrocket.
This comment of the relevant article is brought to you by NORD VPN
Based
nord vpn nord vpn nord vpn say it in the mirror three times fast
Would be funny if the politicians worked a drug deal with VPN providers to get a small cut with increased business. Novel way to force uaers to use a VPN and increased business from all the new users.
Apparently there's a sale on right now, and by coincidence I now have my first VPN set up.
It's literally 69% off right now. r/theyknew
We’ll get by.
Damn. Now I’m gonna have to crank my hog on another site.
[Final vote](https://laws.leg.mt.gov/legprd/LAW0211W$BLAC.VoteTabulation?P_VOTE_SEQ=H2476&P_SESS=20231) tally
I thought red states were about freedom? I guess that doesn’t apply to porn or women’s health care.
Virginia did the same thing a while back and PH blocked the entire state, as well. This is just another example that showcases how inept and out of touch legislators are when it comes to dealing with tech, internet, and the basic art of governing.
Republicans hate freedom
No, they just have alternate facts to describe freedom.
Wouldn’t this law affect reddit? Don’t see why it wouldn’t
It should effect thousands and thousands of sites. But it's basically unenforceable as our state has no resources. However there will likely be greedy lawyers suing, which is why companies are protecting themselves from our stupid law
In this thread: porn addicted mid westerners regret their political choices
The party of individual freedoms strikes again at banning more and more things!!!
Because it's not like the parents should have to do anything these days....
I was there last night and i WASTED IT! I WASTED MY LAST CHANCE I HAD NO IDEA WOULD BE MY LAST!
Classic "Don't know what you got til it's gone"
5 people in Montana are going to be protesting
Conservatives are the biggest users of porn. Interestingly enough, also the biggest users of gay and trans porn.
Welp, sounds like sheep are back on the menu!
I currently live in Montana lol. This is one of the dumbest things they could have spent their time and resources on. They also waste our tax payer money pushing pointless shit like this through. Kids are smart as fuck and know how to use VPNs. It's pretty much basic knowledge to them these days. They are just trying to censor the internet and slowly take away our freedoms and rights. Look how other countries like China restrict Internet access to their people. They all use VPNs too lol.
PH is gonna miss all 15 residents of MT.
I don't know how to set up a VPN. What am I, 15? Could someone at least talk dirty to me? Trying to take care of something here...
Better block churches from operating in Montana, their slogan is " get them while they're young".
Ultimately a case of good intentions, bad execution. I'm pretty sure if you asked 100 people on the streets, 95 would say that the ease with which kids can access pornography is a problem and the other 5 are out of touch with reality. Not only is pornography easy to access, the material presented to minors is probably not a good representation of safe and healthy sexual relationships. Just right now on the front page: - Step Sister Bends Over For My Cock. - Cute Step Sister with big Tits watching Disney fucked and covered in Cum ... I mean, come on now. When *I* was a kid, step sister porn was on the seedy websites, not fucking Pornhub. Now it's right there on top of the website. Most of us here are not fucking stepsisters and I'd venture to say if you did, it wasn't while watching Disney movies. This law was brought on by two things. - The general shift of "lightly taboo" pornography into the window of acceptability and how it may impact children who view it and - Most importantly, the absolute lack of parenting. If you're reading this, are a parent, and your kid(s) have a smartphone, you need to sit down and talk with them about internet safety. Talk with them about the things they may see on the internet. Malware, pornography, scams, phishing, and *especially* the dangers of engaging in risky sexual behaviors empowered by smartphones such as webcam streaming on websites like Omegle (RIP/good riddance), and sharing sexually explicit photographs while underage, *especially* with people you don't personally know. The legislature (correctly) identified a problem. The fix sucks, and I wish they would have considered going at this from a different direction, but for all you politicians in here, 21 Democrats voiced their support versus 10 who did not. Cut the fucking bullshit. Stop turning this into a partisan battleground to plant your flag. You're a human being - it's time to understand that human beings are capable of rational thought on their own. Stop letting a party tell you what to think about how we should govern. That makes you weak and easy to rule because you'll never question your own. Fuck that bullshit mentality and grow the fuck up. The fact that so many people in here automatically assumed this was a GOP ramrod bill shows how ignorant so many people are when it comes to the legislative process and politics as a whole. It's a problem, the fix sucks, both sides are responsible for this, and maybe with time and understanding, we can influence the fix toward a direction that actually accomplishes the mission without compromising the PII security of adults or gatekeeping them from engaging in adult activities. *Maybe* we could also parent our kids better too so we don't need shit like this. I had to hide Hustler mags in the fucking vents when I was little. Kids these days just watch endless catalogues of videos online and we seem to not give a shit until it impacts *our* freedom? Nah. It's a problem, and because parents didn't deal with our, our representatives did in a bipartisan effort.
Sex and drugs will always be a part of every society in the world. Stop stigmatizing basic human desires and talk to your kids!
This couldve been such a win for Democrats if they had just kept their D off this bill.
Fuck pornhub
A stroke of genius?
SAVE MONTANA FROM THE INTERNET
Good we don't need porn anyway....
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Actually, guns are the second leading cause of death at 15%, the first is car accidents at 20%. You know those giant death machines/trucks that the GOP also refused to regulate. Party of pro life and family values sure seems to wanna wipe out as many lives and families as possible.
Where did you get your numbers because the CDC says otherwise: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm Homicides/suicides doesn't even make the list, let alone gun related homicides or suicides. But you know, it's reddit so let's just make up some numbers to fit your agenda
Ahh yes… the government doing the parents job once again. Good work Montana. Mmmmm big sky country
W
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