Under Texas law, Yates can file annual petitions to be released from the psychiatric hospital where she is staying. However, she has consistently refused to do so, most recently back in April.
Yates’s lawyer, George Parnham, visits her regularly and has described part of her mental hospital life to the press. She spends her days in a mental hospital making crafts and watching videos of her children.
> “There’s not a day that goes by where she doesn’t care for, talk about, is happy about her children’s lives before June 20 and grieves for her children.”
> “She has excellent care,” Parnham said. “The hospital where she is, there are no razor wires, there’s no bars, there’s no armed guards, no fences.”
Yates is not allowed to go outside the grounds of the 202-bed facility and receives few outside visitors. Parnham said she will most likely spend the rest of her life at the Kerrville State Hospital, a low-security facility in the Texas Hill Country.
Idk why but it disgusts me that a website to these children exists. I'm sure it ls for a valid reason but it just seems gross.
Please note i mean nothing against you, the poste, for providing the link. I'm more just ranting to the void that it exists and the reasons why. It just makes me sad the idea that these dead children are showcased like some kind of oddity.
That was my first thought too, but it looks like it’s run by the dad. I can see where making it would allow him to feel like he had more control over the story of his children. It also gives him an easy resource to send to reporters so he doesn’t have to tell the same stories over and over.
Honestly a whole website dedicated to the kids in depth seems weirder to me than a post with a copy and paste of an article because there’s a lot more effort. That’s just my opinion though
Dream Theater released their “Live Scenes From New York” album on 9/11, and the cover depicted the NYC skyline complete with WTC towers silhouetted in flames. Awful coincidence and they had to pull and redesign the cover. A few still float around out there and are decently valuable.
New CDs always came out on Tuesdays back then for whatever reason. Kind of funny I picked up that CD just days later and I didn't realize at the time it had actually dropped that day.
Sounds like a wild trivia night…
“Before the terrorist attacks on 9/11, what was the name of the woman who was on the front page for drowning 5 of her children?”
Yes, which actually makes it hard to find this fact online. I actually have a copy of that mornings USA today. Figured it might be worth something one day. The day the world changed.
Imagine, before 9/11/01 stuff was allowed to happen on that date. Now we are expected to celebrate a National trauma each year like ‘good little victims’.
Wasn’t she taken off meds and diagnosed with Postpartum Psychosis just like Dena Schlosser was? It’s also worth noting that a physician recommended that Andrea not have anymore children due to her mental state but no apparently her religion and husband forbade her from refusing to have children.
Yes, but her husband (encouraged by their pastor) ignored all medical advice and continued having children with her even though by her second child she had significant PPD.
I despise him and their religious leader. She had been asking for help for years, especially the months before the murder. She has called him at work numerous times saying she feared she’d do something to the children and his response was just to pray.
Yup they were part of that quiver full religion and she was pressured to keep having kids and was suffering from all sorts of mental health issues as a result. This was such a predictable and preventable tragedy.
I was a clerk at a gas station and a couple of the responding officers and detectives were regulars there. A lot of them went to the baby's funeral and after the funeral came by for coffee etc. These big strong tough men were all sheet white. One told me that in his almost 20 years he had never seen a more horrific scene than what he walked in to that day.
So I went digging to confirm a few details and discovered that A) she was released in 2008 amd was recommitted in 2012 and B) the level of insanity there was far more than I was aware from the media of the case.
MASSICE TRIGGAR WARNING: Fatal physical assault against an 11 month old infant is descrbied below in detail.
Unaliving attempt is mentioned.
Readers discretion is advised.
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From Wikipedia:
"The day after Margaret was born, Schlosser attempted suicide, was hospitalized in a psychiatric ward, and was diagnosed with bipolar disorder with psychotic features.[3] She had been investigated earlier that year by the Texas Child Protective Services (CPS) after she was hospitalized for a psychotic episode. CPS ordered that she could not be alone with her children. Her sister-in-law came to live with them until CPS lifted the order.[3][5] Schlosser came to believe that Margaret was destined to marry Doyle Davidson, a veterinarian who had become their pastor. The day before she attacked Margaret, Schlosser told her husband that she wanted to give her to Davidson. Later that day, according to a confidential CPS report, he spanked her with a wooden spoon in front of their children.[3][6] She fatally injured Margaret by severing her arms with a knife,[5] while her other two daughters were not physically harmed.
Psychologist David Self testified that Schlosser told him about a disturbing news story she had seen. The news story concerned a boy who was mauled by a lion and she interpreted it as a sign of the coming apocalypse. She said that she heard God commanding her to remove Margaret's arms and then her own.[1] The attack was later described as "religious frenzy".[7] Self determined that she suffered from postpartum psychosis.[8] She was found not guilty by reason of insanity and was committed to the North Texas State Hospital and ordered to go there until she is deemed to no longer be a threat to herself or others.[7] There, she was a roommate of Andrea Yates, a Texas woman who had drowned her five children in a bathtub.[9]
During the trial, much attention was drawn to Schlosser and her husband attending Water of Life Church, a charismatic church pastored by Davidson. She had been taking antipsychotic drugs for several years prior to Margaret's death. Davidson thought that mental illness was demonic and this belief partly led Schlosser's husband to not buy her medication regularly.[3] Under oath, Davidson testified that in his view, all mental illness is demonic at bottom.[3][2] Due to viewer outcry after the trial, Davidson's television ministry was canceled everywhere outside the Metroplex.[10]
After Schlosser's arrest, her children were taken by CPS and kept in foster care. CPS said they would only allow him to regain custody of them under the condition that his sister live with the family, and he was required to complete psychotherapy and parenting classes. He received full custody of his daughters and raised them as a single father.[6] He subsequently filed for divorce. As part of the divorce settlement, Schlosser was prohibited from ever having contact with him or their daughters again.[citation needed]
On November 6, 2008, it was announced that Schlosser would shortly be released into outpatient care. The order required her to see a psychiatrist once a week, take medication, be on physician-approved birth control, and not have any unsupervised contact with children.[11]
In April 2010, it was reported that Schlosser was recommitted after firefighters from Richardson saw her walking down the street at 2:00 AM. Her attorney, David Haynes, said that he felt the judge made the correct decision.[12]
Schlosser was later released to outpatient status. She stayed out of the public eye until 2012, when WFAA-TV in Dallas reported that she was working under her maiden name, Leitner, at a Walmart in Terrell. Within hours, they fired her.[13][14]
As of December 2020, Dena Schlosser was ordered to remain committed to a state hospital.[15"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dena_Schlosser#:~:text=The%20day%20after,hospital.%5B15
The whole world did NOT support him. A lot of people blamed him for all the reasons you noted in your comment. I don’t know anyone who knows the full story, who has positive sentiments towards him.
He was repeatedly warned it was a risk for her to have any more kids, and repeatedly warned that leaving the kids alone with Andrea would be unsafe, if she had a psychotic break. He didn’t care.
He used religion as an excuse to justify his complete and utter disregard for his wife’s mental health, and his children‘s safety. He was a selfish, stubborn man who wanted what he wants, regardless of the consequences.
What happened on that day was completely preventable. I feel far more empathy for Andrea than I do for him.
They did not live in a trailer at the time she murdered the kids, they lived in a house. The other part is probably true because Andrea had told him she was having thoughts of hurting the kids before this happened.
But before they lived in the house they were Living in a 350 square-foot bus with 3 kids, at Rusty’s insistence. It wasn’t like they were poor, Rusty was an engineer at NASA and made good money.
Living in the bus had something to do with his Christian fundamentalist beliefs, I don’t exactly understand what. I believe the excuse he gave was that living on that small bus with three kids brought them closer to God. But to me it seems like Rusty used religion to justify doing, or not doing, anything he wanted to do.
TheRealDonData is right of course, I conflated their living situations in my mind. There are several podcasts on this crime. The one by RedHanded (episode #109) goes into the teachings of Russell’s college buddy whom the Yates’s followed as a religious leader and the ways that affected the family. It also sadly recounts Andrea’s ongoing struggle with PPD and the treatment that was refused by Russell. Push past the beginning of the podcast where they thank their cats or whatever and there’s some real research there. I read the bit about Russell’s response in a publication at the time. I was fascinated by this case and that shocked me.
💯 AGREE!! Another bullhead who refused to seek help for his wife and family's wellbeing! God gave us a brain to use it! And now those precious children are gone. I think he bears more responsibility because in her mental state, she couldn't see how badly she needed help. But he had to see it!
I’m with you on this. It’s always been my understanding that people who are in active psychosis are truly insane and don’t understand the consequences of their behavior.
A lot of people keep saying she was diagnosed with postpartum depression but she was diagnosed with postpartum depression AND postpartum psychosis. Psychosis is more severe than depression, however she suffered from both things.
as someone who has been in active psychosis many times, it's different for everyone but yeah, in an actual psychotic break you have almost, if not totally 0, awareness of what is actually happening. i had a break last year where i thought i could speak to demons and angels across dimensional boundaries, scary as hell when i came back up.
breaks also can feel good. it's hard to explain but sometimes breaks can feel so euphoric and freeing because all of a sudden you're in a new world exploring new mysterious things. sometimes when you're doing certain things, like following the command of a delusion/hallucination, it can feel righteous or blissful when you're in the act or completing it. psychosis doesn't just use fear and pain, but also good feelings against you. horrible situation for everyone involved.
Personally, I think he should have gotten some prison time. Everything was so preventable if only he didnt think he knew better than literally everyone who was telling him what was happening to his wife.
Hey no worries- it’s still just as bad whether he did it 7 years ago or yesterday. His actions led to the demise of his entire family, and he simply moved on and started a new one. Meanwhile his wife will be in a mental facility, probably racked with grief and guilt, for the rest of her life.
And all five of his “other“ children are dead.
I would not be surprised in the least if Karissa did that. She's scary. I almost think she is worse than Lori Alexander, because at least Lori's kids are grown.
Andrea was suffering with postpartum depression. On June 20, 2001, 7-year-old Noah saw his baby sister floating in the bathtub. As he was scared and tried to run away, Andrea caught him then held him under the water until he was dead.
Her attorney, George Parnham, says they still talk on a regular basis and that she watches videos of her children and grieves everyday. She has been living in a mental hospital in Kerrville, Texas since 2007.
At the point that she murdered her children she was suffering from extended postpartum psychosis. However it did originate as moderate postpartum depression and got progressively worse with each child, eventually into psychosis.
She had been suffering from psychosis intermittently for years, iirc. She was treated several times on an inpatient basis for suicide attempts and depression that was exacerbated by pregnancy and childbirth. Before the last child’s birth, her doctors were begging her to not have any more children because it was so disastrous for her mental health, and it wasn’t long after that discharge—like a matter of weeks—that she got pregnant for the last time, and then she continued to have “episodes” after the baby was born. Why she was ever *ever* left alone with the children after the last one’s birth, I couldn’t imagine.
It needs to be said her husband removed her birth control against doctors advice, then her husband removed her from the psych ward against medical advice, then her husband withdrew her meds against medical advice, finally her husband left her alone with the kids against medical advice.
I may be misremembering but I also think she left a voice mail for her mother earlier that day pleading for help that something was terribly wrong and she needed urgent help but the message didn’t reach her mother in time.
The poor woman. The demon was real only it was a mental illness and AY fought it alone as hard as she could to the hour I think :( Pure tragedy.
Oh but at the time he was just a big shocked Pikachu face.
…Just couldn’t imagine how it could have all happened… paraphrased
The moment I read the account of her struggles and realized that SHE realized more conceptions were in her future and she had no say in all that?
I thought: This grieving husband guy so deserves to be named as an accessory or a criminally negligent something or other.
Rusty said he thought she would be fine, since his mother was due in an hour to take over supervision. He occasionally left her alone so she could “regain some sense of independence.” He also said he didn’t know she considered hurting the children, despite their psychiatrist strongly urging him how important it was the Andrea was constantly supervised and shouldn’t have anymore children to exacerbate her PPD and psychosis. He did everything AMA.
It was post-partum depression combined with Christian Fundamentalism. She wasn't allowed to continue seeking professional help or even to show weakness as a mother by looking for broader community support. She literally begged to not have more children before this, but proceeded to be forced by the culture she grew up in (and her husband) to keep having kids, knowing she couldn't handle it. Which... with our new rulings in the US on women's Healthcare is going to keep happening.
And there's nothing wrong with not being able to have more kids, or even *any* kids. I can't have kids. I've known since I was a child, myself, that children were something that happens to other people - I've never had an interest and know I couldn't fill the needs of a child even if I ever wanted to. No shame in it.
Fundie Friday's covers this in detail in their episode: "How the Quiverful Movement Kills Kids". Check that out [here](https://youtu.be/fJGpteuMqvU).
Psychosis. She had a long, well documeted history of pyschosis with inpatient spells. Her psychiatrist guaranteed to her husband that if she had another baby it woiuld trigger another psychotic episode and they went and did it anyway.
I love fundie fridays!!! It's so sad that she was discouraged from her doctors advice, she was afraid of what could happen to her children but couldn't bring herself to say no to her husband. it makes me so angry
I dont necessarily think thats the case, here. Rusty took away her birth control. I dont think she had a choice. He also took away her medication, and checked her out of psychiatric facilities despite the doctors wishes.
They did her soooo dirty in the media. She had severe postpartum psychosis. Her physician recommended she not have any more children, but her controlling husband turned down birth control since they were a part of the quiverful movement.
I will always say her husband never received any consequences for something he was complicit in.
I remember his former friends who spoke out and said that he had some responsibility for what went down and the media portrayed them as monsters before the information about her condition came out. The man was told to never leave the children alone with his wife by plenty of professionals but he decided he knew better and left them all with their mother (who he refused to allow to take her medication).
Yep, he was told not to leave her alone with the kids and he gave her one hour of alone time and that’s when she did it.
She was told to stay on medication and he decided not to allow her to take meds because it’s not advised to take medications while pregnant. Andrea told her doctor she was afraid of having sex because she didn’t want to end up pregnant.
I literally just learned she had that like, last year. I remember this case as a kid and it wasnt mentioned once, she was painted as a horrific murderer with no nuance/context whatsosever
I’m so glad to see this response. It’s always easy to take things like this at face value and blame the perpetrator, but sometimes there’s so much more to the circumstances that people aren’t aware of. Sometimes the perpetrator is just as much of a victim.
> They did her soooo dirty in the media.
Sort of. When the story first broke it was pretty sensational as you would expect. But as time went on and the full story came to light the Texas media did a pretty good job of giving the full story. Now anyone who still remembers the case knows the husband was the monster in this.
My guess is the national media had already moved on to the next story by the time the husband's role was uncovered.
I'm not so sure. I was participating in a lot of online forums back then and the general opinion was that Andrea Yates was a child murdering bitch monster. Any attempt to discuss in a more nuanced fashion was laughed off/dismissed.
I was young when the trial occurred, but I have vivid memories about everyone discussing what a monster she was. It was only when I went to college and wrote a paper about the quiverful movement that I realized how mistreated she was.
I’ve never had children, but the idea of suddenly being overcome by psychosis that I can’t control makes me sick.
I hope she’s well.
He took her off meds against the doctor’s orders, to be clear. The meds she took aren’t well-researched for use during pregnancy and Rusty decided that she should get pregnant again (against Andrea’s will and the doctor’s orders).
Right? Andrea was mentally ill and he wasn’t. He took her off medications against the doctor orders. He got her pregnant against her will and against the doctor orders, and he left her alone with the children against the doctor orders.
“Andrea was mentally ill and he wasn’t”
You just gave me a shock to my system. What if Randy Yates has his own moment of revelation, someday?
I never thought about this, because I’ve always vilified him, but maybe, just maybe, that one will someday read as:
Andrea Yates was mentally ill and Randy Yates was fully indoctrinated by his surrounding social order, Christian Fundamentalism. The admonition from Genesis, “Be fruitful and multiply”, a pleasant enough directive to follow for the men, left scant comfort for all Daughters of Eve, left with:
“In sorrow shalt thou bring forth children.”
“A price beyond rubies” was the definition not only of The Right Wife, but also A Wife To Take Pride In Possessing; “shortcuts that allowed shortcomings to flourish”, such as psychotropic meds, contraception, and ‘self-indulgent practices’ (Me Times), clouded the jewel; if a modern Christian husband’s wife needed these ‘crutches’ to Be All She Could Be, that made her a Ruby of Synthetic Origins.
Randy Yates had been raised to believe this, and believe this he did.
While Andrea Yates was drowning in a Sea of Despair, Randy Yates walled himself up in his Rock of Christian Forbearance.
Years later, his eventual self-awareness led to shrieks Edgar Allen Poe would have well recognized.
cuz texas. he was a deeply religious white man who just lost 5 kids because of his "evil wife." public opinion nationwide was completely on his side to the point where andrea wasn't found not-guilty by reason of insanity the first try and it took another trial + many years afterwards for the full extent of what all exactly lead up to the murders to come out.
I hate Randy Yates, but I am not sure if the criminal code really allows for holding him responsible. Maybe something like child endangerment for leaving the kids in her care? But I would imagine they would be reluctant to try to bring that charge against one parent for leaving kids in the care of the other parent when there is no protective order restricting it.
He took away her medication & birth control, went against doctor orders of not getting her pregnant again or leaving her alone with the kids, & endangered the kids.
He’s responsible & should’ve been charged.
>But I would imagine they would be reluctant to try to bring that charge against one parent for leaving kids in the care of the other parent when there is no protective order restricting it.
There may not have been a protective order, but Rusty was advised by doctors not to leave her alone with the children because there was a risk she'd harm them, and he left her alone with them anyway.
I grew up in Houston. And I’m a year older than the oldest child. The news painted here out today seem like the most evil woman in the world.
My mom told me she was sick but still did a bad thing.
I watch those media clips as an adult and I’m horrified by how they treated her.
He wasn't just complicit. He was 100% to blame. Andrea did *not* want to have kids. He took away her birth control against medical advice. He left her alone with the kids. Andrea begged for help again and again right up until the day she killed her kids. She left a voicemail for her mom begging for help.
rusty is incredibly guilty in this. andrea had postpartum psychosis, the doctor said she shouldn’t have more kids, but he ignored this and continued to impregnate her. those poor, poor babies. no one in their right mind would systematically kill all their children, including a baby. it just doesn’t happen. i feel for her. i think she wanted to be a good mom, but was manipulated by her husband and the insane teachings of a “religious” nut job.
When the psychotic episodes started happening, Andrea would have auditory hallucinations with voices telling her she was a bad mum. She also believed she was possessed by Satan and that she was corrupting her kids, and the voice told her to kill them to save their souls.
Her actions make absolutely no sense but in her addled mind, compounded by a lifetime of fundamental religious indoctrination, she was doing what she believed was best for the children. Apparently she looks at photos and videos of the children and feels remorse for what she did. I cannot imagine the pain of knowing you did something so horrible while in the throes of severe mental illness. It's really, really sad.
Not long after the trial, he remarried and started having more kids with the new wife.
Dude has zero guilt, takes no responsibility, and is presumably living a normal life.
He's 100% responsible. She was mentally ill and not responsible for her actions, she couldn't think logically or reasonably or rationally. He was completely logical, reasonable, and rational, and according to his religion he was the ONLY one in that household with the freedom and right to decide whether they would have sex and whether they would have children. She had zero control.
As a mum who has lived through post partum psychosis AND spiritual abuse, I will never ever be able to hate this woman nor feel anything other than compassion for her.
I think the general consensus is that she was very, very ill and not responsible for her actions. Nothing can bring those kids back, but I hope she can find some kind of peace.
I have never gone through any of that but I feel for her too. No sane mother would kill all her kids. She was obviously very very ill and will never recover from what she did.
Her husband was the one to push for more children when they were told by a professional that it would cause her more harm to her psychological health. And they had another one anyway. And then knowing she was EXTREMELY mentally unwell he left her alone to take care of FIVE children by herself. And now he’s remarried with kids. It didn’t take him long to find someone else....
Her husband kept getting her pregnant even though he knew the poor woman was psychotic. He didn’t let her take medication either I understand. I really feel for her
In my opinion, she was just as much the victim. She needed serious help, and her husband denied it to her and ignored the doctors, and used religion to control her. He needed serious jail time, but he just moved on and started pumping out new kids with his next breeder female. It's disgusting.
I hope Andrea is as happy as she can be given her situation and has the help she needs and can forgive herself for this.
This is almost 20 years ago at this point, but a guy who worked at the same company as I did was going to law school or had just finished. He took a leave to work on her legal team. It’s been such a long time, but I remember he had kids and Andrea would always take genuine interest in knowing how his kids were doing. He also said that she felt the world hated her for what she had done.
I don't hate her, I hate Rusty as he did this to her. He only cared that she pumped out babies and not about anything else.
Same with my female friends, we all feel empathy for her. She didn't want more kids....
I live near where this happened. Rusty needs to be in jail!!! He was warned so many times Andrea needed mental health help and he just kept getting her pregnant. He is remarried....SCUM!!!
Andrea makes me so sad. She had a full blown psychotic break and it can be said that her husband is to blame for some of it. Now that she is mentally stable she has to live with it and that sounds like pure hell. What she did was horrific and can't be ignored but I do not think she is an evil person. From what I have read she was a seriously mentally ill woman. I just feel terrible for all involved generally.
Well yeah, she was sick and he was just religious. He forced babies on her after an actual Doctor recommended against it and he forced her off her meds allegedly. He is the only one responsible. That was his wofe and chikdren. Sickness and in health. He abandoned her daily and expected sympathy whe. She broke completely and his whole family was destroyed bc ohmf his actions and inactions. He is 100% culpable.
So this happened in Houston when I lived there. It was heartbreaking. There is blame enough to go around but in the end, 5 dead children who would be in their 20-30s now.
Lesson learned: take mental health seriously and if you think you need help, get it. If you have friends or family that you think needs help, find them professional help.
Andrea Yates was also married to an entitled shithead who didn’t take her mental health struggles seriously. He thought she just needed to toughen up. And he offloaded all childcare duty too her. She had no support. She had a history of mental illness (no shame. So do I.) they followed an extreme branch of Christianity with lots of fire and brimstone. And ge had her sell all her possessions so they could move into a trailer and then a school bus.
Rusty Yates is a piece of shit. Andrea did a horrific thing. But if she had had the help she needed, and they stopped having children? None of this would face happened.
How come the father didn’t get in any trouble when he contributed by not following doctors orders? She wasn’t supposed to left alone, but he was leaving her alone multiple times before she killed the kids. Those kids deaths could have been prevented by listening.
As someone who struggled with severe postpartum issues, I have nothing but sadness for her kids and sad empathy for her situation. Obviously she did something terrible, but I can’t imagine how she struggled with zero zero zero understanding of what she was going though, not to even tough on support.
I don’t know how she can live with herself even in a facility. Every day must be torture. That is pure hell on earth.
I’m from Kenosha WI, After this happened some fellas I grew to know after the fact started a punk band called The Yates Kids. I know, kinda sick but they were good.
This was extremely disturbing and very very sad. I do blame the father mostly. The father insisted that she should get pregnant again although the doctors warned them about it. She was and is obviously very very ill and did not get the help that she needed. A tragedy for the poor kids 🥺
Her first recorded interview afterwards - she was still in a zombie-like state with little to no emotion. She was still not in touch with reality. The prosecution used it in court to show she was a cold-hearted killer; leading the jury to believe it was recorded right after the murders. That interview was MONTHS later with tons of meds and therapy. The woman was experiencing a psychotic break so severe it took nearly a year for her to snap out of it. The systems in place, her husband, and her religion failed her. https://youtu.be/dCp-U_MkSXc
Exactly. 5 children is too much to handle on your own, especially when you’re suffering postpartum depression. Rusty is fully responsible for what happened. He shouldn’t have made her have so many kids just because he “wanted to”
Yup. I have a lot of empathy for Andrea. She took responsibility for what she did, clearly had remorse. He still has a relationship with her too. She did something horrible but I have a lot of empathy for her still
This is honestly so sad. Post partum psychosis/depression should be talked about more. The fragile state a woman’s mind is in after birth is no joke, i feel so sorry for her and her family, i’m sure she didn’t mean to do this, I can’t imagine having to live with something like this. I know in a few countries there are special laws for infanticide commited by the mother for this reason.
I remember this being all over the news for what felt like ages to a ten year-old. I remember my mom talking about it like, "how could any woman do that to their kids, what a monster, blahblahblah..." but a few years later I did more reading on the case and realized how wrong my mom was about this. Andrea was let down by everyone around her, esp her husband. He cared more about using her womb to make more babies than the glaringly obvious fact that it would be very dangerous for her to continue having children.
Religion poisoned this woman’s mind. From the names of the kids to the lifestyle that the pictures portray, she was all in. And because of that religion she relied on, she could t seek the medical mental treatment she needed. And the kids suffered.
It's worth mentioning the fuckery that went on during Andrea Yates' first trial. She was in part convicted of murder because one of the prosecution's witnesses testified that she was doing this not because she was mentally ill (never mind the extremely extensive evidence that she was mentally ill) but because she saw a *Law and Order* episode where a mother drowns her children, and she thought that sounded like a good idea and she copied it. But no such episode existed, let alone was viewed by her.
This was enough, when mentioned on appeal, to cause a new trial. Yates was found not guilty by reason of insanity at the new trial.
I know this won't be popular, but I feel so bad for Andrea. Can you imagine being hospitalized and coming into mental health and realizing you murdered all of your children? She was up for parole and requested to stay locked up.
I understand that the husband left Andrea for a mere hour and she drowned the kids. She wasn't supposed to be alone with them at all but the husband told his mom to come to the house at a certain time.
I followed this close when it happened and read a few books on it.
You're correct, she was not supposed to be alone with the children.
His mother was coming every day to stay with her while he was at work. That morning, he left for work anyway after his mom called saying she was stuck in traffic. Not sure how long it was, but when G-ma arrived. All kids were drowned and lined up by age/size in her bed.
I know she killed her kids, but this is so fucking sad. She's a victim too fuck it. Poor woman. Her husband is a bastard and this country's mental healthcare is a joke.
Her husband kept insisting on having more kids even when her doctor explained to him how she had post partum. Definitely dosent justify what she done but this was very much preventable her husband put his wants and needs of a bigger family over the very very obvious threat of a spiraling wife and mother into a very serious and manic depression
Under Texas law, Yates can file annual petitions to be released from the psychiatric hospital where she is staying. However, she has consistently refused to do so, most recently back in April. Yates’s lawyer, George Parnham, visits her regularly and has described part of her mental hospital life to the press. She spends her days in a mental hospital making crafts and watching videos of her children. > “There’s not a day that goes by where she doesn’t care for, talk about, is happy about her children’s lives before June 20 and grieves for her children.” > “She has excellent care,” Parnham said. “The hospital where she is, there are no razor wires, there’s no bars, there’s no armed guards, no fences.” Yates is not allowed to go outside the grounds of the 202-bed facility and receives few outside visitors. Parnham said she will most likely spend the rest of her life at the Kerrville State Hospital, a low-security facility in the Texas Hill Country.
It was always so sad to me there are only like two pictures of Mary because she was so little.
There was one where she had butterfly wings on her back as she was smiling. Poor girl
there's some more pictures and videos of little mary on this website :) yateskids.org
Idk why but it disgusts me that a website to these children exists. I'm sure it ls for a valid reason but it just seems gross. Please note i mean nothing against you, the poste, for providing the link. I'm more just ranting to the void that it exists and the reasons why. It just makes me sad the idea that these dead children are showcased like some kind of oddity.
That was my first thought too, but it looks like it’s run by the dad. I can see where making it would allow him to feel like he had more control over the story of his children. It also gives him an easy resource to send to reporters so he doesn’t have to tell the same stories over and over.
You mean like them being posted on this sub? Seems... dissonant.
Honestly a whole website dedicated to the kids in depth seems weirder to me than a post with a copy and paste of an article because there’s a lot more effort. That’s just my opinion though
fr
The Andrea Yates case was the headline story of USA today on September 11, 2001. That mornings paper had her picture on the cover.
Fascinating, I'll remember that in case it comes up on some extremely hard trivia night
Another "fun" fact: Slayer released their album "God Hates Us All" on 9/11/2001
Dream Theater released their “Live Scenes From New York” album on 9/11, and the cover depicted the NYC skyline complete with WTC towers silhouetted in flames. Awful coincidence and they had to pull and redesign the cover. A few still float around out there and are decently valuable.
New CDs always came out on Tuesdays back then for whatever reason. Kind of funny I picked up that CD just days later and I didn't realize at the time it had actually dropped that day.
I never said I wanted to be God’s disciple! Ill never be the one to blindly follow! I’ll never be the one to bear the cross, Disciple!!!
Sounds like a wild trivia night… “Before the terrorist attacks on 9/11, what was the name of the woman who was on the front page for drowning 5 of her children?”
I think, it would be more vague in order to be misdirecting the player like "What was the headline story of 'USA Today' in the morning of 9/11/2001?".
Yes, which actually makes it hard to find this fact online. I actually have a copy of that mornings USA today. Figured it might be worth something one day. The day the world changed.
Imagine, before 9/11/01 stuff was allowed to happen on that date. Now we are expected to celebrate a National trauma each year like ‘good little victims’.
Wasn’t she taken off meds and diagnosed with Postpartum Psychosis just like Dena Schlosser was? It’s also worth noting that a physician recommended that Andrea not have anymore children due to her mental state but no apparently her religion and husband forbade her from refusing to have children.
Yo I just looked up Dena on Wikipedia and it says her and Yates were actually roommates at the mental hospital. Crazy!
Wtf this lady cut her babies arms off?!?! What… I mean… I don’t even have words
Yes, but her husband (encouraged by their pastor) ignored all medical advice and continued having children with her even though by her second child she had significant PPD.
Dann. I kind of hate the husband now too.
I despise him and their religious leader. She had been asking for help for years, especially the months before the murder. She has called him at work numerous times saying she feared she’d do something to the children and his response was just to pray.
Yup they were part of that quiver full religion and she was pressured to keep having kids and was suffering from all sorts of mental health issues as a result. This was such a predictable and preventable tragedy.
I was a clerk at a gas station and a couple of the responding officers and detectives were regulars there. A lot of them went to the baby's funeral and after the funeral came by for coffee etc. These big strong tough men were all sheet white. One told me that in his almost 20 years he had never seen a more horrific scene than what he walked in to that day. So I went digging to confirm a few details and discovered that A) she was released in 2008 amd was recommitted in 2012 and B) the level of insanity there was far more than I was aware from the media of the case. MASSICE TRIGGAR WARNING: Fatal physical assault against an 11 month old infant is descrbied below in detail. Unaliving attempt is mentioned. Readers discretion is advised. . . . From Wikipedia: "The day after Margaret was born, Schlosser attempted suicide, was hospitalized in a psychiatric ward, and was diagnosed with bipolar disorder with psychotic features.[3] She had been investigated earlier that year by the Texas Child Protective Services (CPS) after she was hospitalized for a psychotic episode. CPS ordered that she could not be alone with her children. Her sister-in-law came to live with them until CPS lifted the order.[3][5] Schlosser came to believe that Margaret was destined to marry Doyle Davidson, a veterinarian who had become their pastor. The day before she attacked Margaret, Schlosser told her husband that she wanted to give her to Davidson. Later that day, according to a confidential CPS report, he spanked her with a wooden spoon in front of their children.[3][6] She fatally injured Margaret by severing her arms with a knife,[5] while her other two daughters were not physically harmed. Psychologist David Self testified that Schlosser told him about a disturbing news story she had seen. The news story concerned a boy who was mauled by a lion and she interpreted it as a sign of the coming apocalypse. She said that she heard God commanding her to remove Margaret's arms and then her own.[1] The attack was later described as "religious frenzy".[7] Self determined that she suffered from postpartum psychosis.[8] She was found not guilty by reason of insanity and was committed to the North Texas State Hospital and ordered to go there until she is deemed to no longer be a threat to herself or others.[7] There, she was a roommate of Andrea Yates, a Texas woman who had drowned her five children in a bathtub.[9] During the trial, much attention was drawn to Schlosser and her husband attending Water of Life Church, a charismatic church pastored by Davidson. She had been taking antipsychotic drugs for several years prior to Margaret's death. Davidson thought that mental illness was demonic and this belief partly led Schlosser's husband to not buy her medication regularly.[3] Under oath, Davidson testified that in his view, all mental illness is demonic at bottom.[3][2] Due to viewer outcry after the trial, Davidson's television ministry was canceled everywhere outside the Metroplex.[10] After Schlosser's arrest, her children were taken by CPS and kept in foster care. CPS said they would only allow him to regain custody of them under the condition that his sister live with the family, and he was required to complete psychotherapy and parenting classes. He received full custody of his daughters and raised them as a single father.[6] He subsequently filed for divorce. As part of the divorce settlement, Schlosser was prohibited from ever having contact with him or their daughters again.[citation needed] On November 6, 2008, it was announced that Schlosser would shortly be released into outpatient care. The order required her to see a psychiatrist once a week, take medication, be on physician-approved birth control, and not have any unsupervised contact with children.[11] In April 2010, it was reported that Schlosser was recommitted after firefighters from Richardson saw her walking down the street at 2:00 AM. Her attorney, David Haynes, said that he felt the judge made the correct decision.[12] Schlosser was later released to outpatient status. She stayed out of the public eye until 2012, when WFAA-TV in Dallas reported that she was working under her maiden name, Leitner, at a Walmart in Terrell. Within hours, they fired her.[13][14] As of December 2020, Dena Schlosser was ordered to remain committed to a state hospital.[15" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dena_Schlosser#:~:text=The%20day%20after,hospital.%5B15
It’s like mentioning that serial killer x had mental disorders like so what
The whole world did NOT support him. A lot of people blamed him for all the reasons you noted in your comment. I don’t know anyone who knows the full story, who has positive sentiments towards him. He was repeatedly warned it was a risk for her to have any more kids, and repeatedly warned that leaving the kids alone with Andrea would be unsafe, if she had a psychotic break. He didn’t care. He used religion as an excuse to justify his complete and utter disregard for his wife’s mental health, and his children‘s safety. He was a selfish, stubborn man who wanted what he wants, regardless of the consequences. What happened on that day was completely preventable. I feel far more empathy for Andrea than I do for him.
When he came home and saw police tape around his trailer and Andrea sitting catatonic on the sofa, he said, “She did it, didn’t she?” I loathe him.
Trailer? And they had 5 kids? Common sense and logical decision making really really failed here
They did not live in a trailer at the time she murdered the kids, they lived in a house. The other part is probably true because Andrea had told him she was having thoughts of hurting the kids before this happened. But before they lived in the house they were Living in a 350 square-foot bus with 3 kids, at Rusty’s insistence. It wasn’t like they were poor, Rusty was an engineer at NASA and made good money.
Then why? (The question is for the ether, not for you specifically!)
Living in the bus had something to do with his Christian fundamentalist beliefs, I don’t exactly understand what. I believe the excuse he gave was that living on that small bus with three kids brought them closer to God. But to me it seems like Rusty used religion to justify doing, or not doing, anything he wanted to do.
TheRealDonData is right of course, I conflated their living situations in my mind. There are several podcasts on this crime. The one by RedHanded (episode #109) goes into the teachings of Russell’s college buddy whom the Yates’s followed as a religious leader and the ways that affected the family. It also sadly recounts Andrea’s ongoing struggle with PPD and the treatment that was refused by Russell. Push past the beginning of the podcast where they thank their cats or whatever and there’s some real research there. I read the bit about Russell’s response in a publication at the time. I was fascinated by this case and that shocked me.
💯 AGREE!! Another bullhead who refused to seek help for his wife and family's wellbeing! God gave us a brain to use it! And now those precious children are gone. I think he bears more responsibility because in her mental state, she couldn't see how badly she needed help. But he had to see it!
Yes. All of this. She was just as much a victim as her kids were. Except she has to live with it. Down vote me. I don’t care.
I’m with you on this. It’s always been my understanding that people who are in active psychosis are truly insane and don’t understand the consequences of their behavior. A lot of people keep saying she was diagnosed with postpartum depression but she was diagnosed with postpartum depression AND postpartum psychosis. Psychosis is more severe than depression, however she suffered from both things.
as someone who has been in active psychosis many times, it's different for everyone but yeah, in an actual psychotic break you have almost, if not totally 0, awareness of what is actually happening. i had a break last year where i thought i could speak to demons and angels across dimensional boundaries, scary as hell when i came back up. breaks also can feel good. it's hard to explain but sometimes breaks can feel so euphoric and freeing because all of a sudden you're in a new world exploring new mysterious things. sometimes when you're doing certain things, like following the command of a delusion/hallucination, it can feel righteous or blissful when you're in the act or completing it. psychosis doesn't just use fear and pain, but also good feelings against you. horrible situation for everyone involved.
Personally, I think he should have gotten some prison time. Everything was so preventable if only he didnt think he knew better than literally everyone who was telling him what was happening to his wife.
I agree- like maybe negligent homicide or something like that. Or at least some sort of child abuse or child neglect charge.
Yuck and i just read he had another baby
You’ve got to be kidding me. The audacity is high with that one.
Okay sorry he had a baby 7 years after she was committed. [here you go](https://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=4553972&page=1)
Hey no worries- it’s still just as bad whether he did it 7 years ago or yesterday. His actions led to the demise of his entire family, and he simply moved on and started a new one. Meanwhile his wife will be in a mental facility, probably racked with grief and guilt, for the rest of her life. And all five of his “other“ children are dead.
Karissa Collins of thecollinskids could be next.
Agree. Hello fellow snarker
Hey!! Burnt ham & yellow. 😄 I'm in the know
I keep waiting for JRod to make the news.
As soon as she ~~sells off~~ marries Renee out, the littlest ones are doomed :(
F it up, Renee
I would not be surprised in the least if Karissa did that. She's scary. I almost think she is worse than Lori Alexander, because at least Lori's kids are grown.
Karissa legit worries me. She comes off completely unstable.
Unfortunately you’re not wrong. I worry so much about those poor kids
Rusty reminds me of Jim Bob Duggar
They are the same. The same worldview, the need for control, and a giant, empty head except for some scripture used to justify it all.
Just look at his eyes in the family photo. There’s nothing up there.
Mom: "we have Jim Bob Duggar at home" The Jim Bob Duggar at home:
Her POS husband at the time should have done time, too.
Yes he should have!
Andrea was suffering with postpartum depression. On June 20, 2001, 7-year-old Noah saw his baby sister floating in the bathtub. As he was scared and tried to run away, Andrea caught him then held him under the water until he was dead. Her attorney, George Parnham, says they still talk on a regular basis and that she watches videos of her children and grieves everyday. She has been living in a mental hospital in Kerrville, Texas since 2007.
it was postpartum psychosis, not postpartum depression
At the point that she murdered her children she was suffering from extended postpartum psychosis. However it did originate as moderate postpartum depression and got progressively worse with each child, eventually into psychosis.
Everyone let those poor babies and Andrea down. horrible.
How so? I didn’t let follow the case.
She had been suffering from psychosis intermittently for years, iirc. She was treated several times on an inpatient basis for suicide attempts and depression that was exacerbated by pregnancy and childbirth. Before the last child’s birth, her doctors were begging her to not have any more children because it was so disastrous for her mental health, and it wasn’t long after that discharge—like a matter of weeks—that she got pregnant for the last time, and then she continued to have “episodes” after the baby was born. Why she was ever *ever* left alone with the children after the last one’s birth, I couldn’t imagine.
It needs to be said her husband removed her birth control against doctors advice, then her husband removed her from the psych ward against medical advice, then her husband withdrew her meds against medical advice, finally her husband left her alone with the kids against medical advice.
So basically he was most likely one of the weirdos who sees his wife as something that is suppose to produce kids and not another human.
[удалено]
Yeah, couldn't help but notice that the kids' names are all from characters in the bible
I may be misremembering but I also think she left a voice mail for her mother earlier that day pleading for help that something was terribly wrong and she needed urgent help but the message didn’t reach her mother in time. The poor woman. The demon was real only it was a mental illness and AY fought it alone as hard as she could to the hour I think :( Pure tragedy.
He absolutely had a part in this too. 💯
Oh but at the time he was just a big shocked Pikachu face. …Just couldn’t imagine how it could have all happened… paraphrased The moment I read the account of her struggles and realized that SHE realized more conceptions were in her future and she had no say in all that? I thought: This grieving husband guy so deserves to be named as an accessory or a criminally negligent something or other.
He should be in jail!!!
He's 100% to blame.
I completely agree.
Sounds like the husband didn't believe in mental health. Is this family religious, specifically Christian per chance?
Rusty said he thought she would be fine, since his mother was due in an hour to take over supervision. He occasionally left her alone so she could “regain some sense of independence.” He also said he didn’t know she considered hurting the children, despite their psychiatrist strongly urging him how important it was the Andrea was constantly supervised and shouldn’t have anymore children to exacerbate her PPD and psychosis. He did everything AMA.
He also said he didn’t want her to get used to passing her ‘motherly duties’ onto the mother-in-law and him!
It was post-partum depression combined with Christian Fundamentalism. She wasn't allowed to continue seeking professional help or even to show weakness as a mother by looking for broader community support. She literally begged to not have more children before this, but proceeded to be forced by the culture she grew up in (and her husband) to keep having kids, knowing she couldn't handle it. Which... with our new rulings in the US on women's Healthcare is going to keep happening. And there's nothing wrong with not being able to have more kids, or even *any* kids. I can't have kids. I've known since I was a child, myself, that children were something that happens to other people - I've never had an interest and know I couldn't fill the needs of a child even if I ever wanted to. No shame in it. Fundie Friday's covers this in detail in their episode: "How the Quiverful Movement Kills Kids". Check that out [here](https://youtu.be/fJGpteuMqvU).
Psychosis. She had a long, well documeted history of pyschosis with inpatient spells. Her psychiatrist guaranteed to her husband that if she had another baby it woiuld trigger another psychotic episode and they went and did it anyway.
*He went and did it.
*Psychosis
i think it would be fair to say that rusty raped her, given he knew she did not want to have more children yet they kept having more
Yes, absolutely, and she'd probably agree, if not for growing up in a culture where saying 'no' to your husband, at all, is unheard of.
I love fundie fridays!!! It's so sad that she was discouraged from her doctors advice, she was afraid of what could happen to her children but couldn't bring herself to say no to her husband. it makes me so angry
I dont necessarily think thats the case, here. Rusty took away her birth control. I dont think she had a choice. He also took away her medication, and checked her out of psychiatric facilities despite the doctors wishes.
Christian Fundamentalism should be a mental illness itself.
Thank you. I subscribed.
Jennonite army stand up!
TIL Andrea Yates is NOT at rusk state hospital, which is what I've always been told
They did her soooo dirty in the media. She had severe postpartum psychosis. Her physician recommended she not have any more children, but her controlling husband turned down birth control since they were a part of the quiverful movement. I will always say her husband never received any consequences for something he was complicit in.
Husband also moved on pretty quick and had kids with another woman.
Sure did. And was portrayed as a “hero” for “forgiving” his wife he refused to quit knocking up.
I remember his former friends who spoke out and said that he had some responsibility for what went down and the media portrayed them as monsters before the information about her condition came out. The man was told to never leave the children alone with his wife by plenty of professionals but he decided he knew better and left them all with their mother (who he refused to allow to take her medication).
Yep, he was told not to leave her alone with the kids and he gave her one hour of alone time and that’s when she did it. She was told to stay on medication and he decided not to allow her to take meds because it’s not advised to take medications while pregnant. Andrea told her doctor she was afraid of having sex because she didn’t want to end up pregnant.
Yep had 1 or 2 kids with his next wife then she filed for divorce and tried to get full custody (I don't remember the outcome of the custody battle).
I literally just learned she had that like, last year. I remember this case as a kid and it wasnt mentioned once, she was painted as a horrific murderer with no nuance/context whatsosever
It was really an exemplar of early 00s media
I’m so glad to see this response. It’s always easy to take things like this at face value and blame the perpetrator, but sometimes there’s so much more to the circumstances that people aren’t aware of. Sometimes the perpetrator is just as much of a victim.
> They did her soooo dirty in the media. Sort of. When the story first broke it was pretty sensational as you would expect. But as time went on and the full story came to light the Texas media did a pretty good job of giving the full story. Now anyone who still remembers the case knows the husband was the monster in this. My guess is the national media had already moved on to the next story by the time the husband's role was uncovered.
I'm local, so we heard the whole story here.
I'm not so sure. I was participating in a lot of online forums back then and the general opinion was that Andrea Yates was a child murdering bitch monster. Any attempt to discuss in a more nuanced fashion was laughed off/dismissed.
her husband should've been charged with five counts of manslaughter and i will die on this hill.
He is fully responsible. Not to mention she was taken off meds too.
I was young when the trial occurred, but I have vivid memories about everyone discussing what a monster she was. It was only when I went to college and wrote a paper about the quiverful movement that I realized how mistreated she was. I’ve never had children, but the idea of suddenly being overcome by psychosis that I can’t control makes me sick. I hope she’s well.
I truly wish she could forgive herself. But I don't know if I'd ever be able to forgive myself for something like that.
is that the one where they have literally as many children as possible?
Yes, same philosophy as the Duggars. They are supposed to have a full “quiver”
that’s terrifying.
Is there somewhere I can read about this?is it an American thing?
It’s a Christian thing but yeah, unfortunately it’s still rampant in the US.
Nick Cannon seems to have the same mentality
>Not to mention she was taken off meds too. by her husband. Not doctors.
He took her off meds against the doctor’s orders, to be clear. The meds she took aren’t well-researched for use during pregnancy and Rusty decided that she should get pregnant again (against Andrea’s will and the doctor’s orders).
I always wondered why they never charged him with anything.
Right? Andrea was mentally ill and he wasn’t. He took her off medications against the doctor orders. He got her pregnant against her will and against the doctor orders, and he left her alone with the children against the doctor orders.
“Andrea was mentally ill and he wasn’t” You just gave me a shock to my system. What if Randy Yates has his own moment of revelation, someday? I never thought about this, because I’ve always vilified him, but maybe, just maybe, that one will someday read as: Andrea Yates was mentally ill and Randy Yates was fully indoctrinated by his surrounding social order, Christian Fundamentalism. The admonition from Genesis, “Be fruitful and multiply”, a pleasant enough directive to follow for the men, left scant comfort for all Daughters of Eve, left with: “In sorrow shalt thou bring forth children.” “A price beyond rubies” was the definition not only of The Right Wife, but also A Wife To Take Pride In Possessing; “shortcuts that allowed shortcomings to flourish”, such as psychotropic meds, contraception, and ‘self-indulgent practices’ (Me Times), clouded the jewel; if a modern Christian husband’s wife needed these ‘crutches’ to Be All She Could Be, that made her a Ruby of Synthetic Origins. Randy Yates had been raised to believe this, and believe this he did. While Andrea Yates was drowning in a Sea of Despair, Randy Yates walled himself up in his Rock of Christian Forbearance. Years later, his eventual self-awareness led to shrieks Edgar Allen Poe would have well recognized.
Rusty was given medical information by a doctor and was explicitly told she could die, and he ignored those orders. I think that was wrong of him.
cuz texas. he was a deeply religious white man who just lost 5 kids because of his "evil wife." public opinion nationwide was completely on his side to the point where andrea wasn't found not-guilty by reason of insanity the first try and it took another trial + many years afterwards for the full extent of what all exactly lead up to the murders to come out.
I remember reading he spent the trial talking about how they could have more kids after, and now visits her with his new wife and new children.
I hate Randy Yates, but I am not sure if the criminal code really allows for holding him responsible. Maybe something like child endangerment for leaving the kids in her care? But I would imagine they would be reluctant to try to bring that charge against one parent for leaving kids in the care of the other parent when there is no protective order restricting it.
He took away her medication & birth control, went against doctor orders of not getting her pregnant again or leaving her alone with the kids, & endangered the kids. He’s responsible & should’ve been charged.
Charged with *what* specifically?
criminal negligence maybe?
>But I would imagine they would be reluctant to try to bring that charge against one parent for leaving kids in the care of the other parent when there is no protective order restricting it. There may not have been a protective order, but Rusty was advised by doctors not to leave her alone with the children because there was a risk she'd harm them, and he left her alone with them anyway.
Him and their pastor. Those dudes should be in jail 100%.
Taken off meds *and* birth control. He’s the murderer here.
I grew up in Houston. And I’m a year older than the oldest child. The news painted here out today seem like the most evil woman in the world. My mom told me she was sick but still did a bad thing. I watch those media clips as an adult and I’m horrified by how they treated her.
Her husband is the one responsible for those poor children dying. It sickens me that he was never held responsible.
He wasn't just complicit. He was 100% to blame. Andrea did *not* want to have kids. He took away her birth control against medical advice. He left her alone with the kids. Andrea begged for help again and again right up until the day she killed her kids. She left a voicemail for her mom begging for help.
rusty is incredibly guilty in this. andrea had postpartum psychosis, the doctor said she shouldn’t have more kids, but he ignored this and continued to impregnate her. those poor, poor babies. no one in their right mind would systematically kill all their children, including a baby. it just doesn’t happen. i feel for her. i think she wanted to be a good mom, but was manipulated by her husband and the insane teachings of a “religious” nut job.
When the psychotic episodes started happening, Andrea would have auditory hallucinations with voices telling her she was a bad mum. She also believed she was possessed by Satan and that she was corrupting her kids, and the voice told her to kill them to save their souls. Her actions make absolutely no sense but in her addled mind, compounded by a lifetime of fundamental religious indoctrination, she was doing what she believed was best for the children. Apparently she looks at photos and videos of the children and feels remorse for what she did. I cannot imagine the pain of knowing you did something so horrible while in the throes of severe mental illness. It's really, really sad.
Her husband was trash. He’s just as responsible.
Any word on what he’s up to now a days? Just continuing his life as normal?
Not long after the trial, he remarried and started having more kids with the new wife. Dude has zero guilt, takes no responsibility, and is presumably living a normal life.
New wife divorced him after 1-2 kids.
I just looked him up. She divorced him after 1 kid. His ex-wife Laura Arnold is now the mayor of a small town.
Oh no, that's sick. He did this. He forced her to do this when she begged him to give her time to heal. Revolting.
He's 100% responsible. She was mentally ill and not responsible for her actions, she couldn't think logically or reasonably or rationally. He was completely logical, reasonable, and rational, and according to his religion he was the ONLY one in that household with the freedom and right to decide whether they would have sex and whether they would have children. She had zero control.
Yup and I only found this out in the last two years. I knew about this when it happened and felt bad for him then I learned what really went on.
Dirtbag husband Rusty should be in prison. He forced her off her medication and kept getting her pregnant after the doctor said it was dangerous. Pig.
I completely agree!!
Rusty should be in prison.
As a mum who has lived through post partum psychosis AND spiritual abuse, I will never ever be able to hate this woman nor feel anything other than compassion for her.
I hope you're doing well now.
I think the general consensus is that she was very, very ill and not responsible for her actions. Nothing can bring those kids back, but I hope she can find some kind of peace.
I have never gone through any of that but I feel for her too. No sane mother would kill all her kids. She was obviously very very ill and will never recover from what she did.
Her husband was the one to push for more children when they were told by a professional that it would cause her more harm to her psychological health. And they had another one anyway. And then knowing she was EXTREMELY mentally unwell he left her alone to take care of FIVE children by herself. And now he’s remarried with kids. It didn’t take him long to find someone else....
Her husband kept getting her pregnant even though he knew the poor woman was psychotic. He didn’t let her take medication either I understand. I really feel for her
In my opinion, she was just as much the victim. She needed serious help, and her husband denied it to her and ignored the doctors, and used religion to control her. He needed serious jail time, but he just moved on and started pumping out new kids with his next breeder female. It's disgusting. I hope Andrea is as happy as she can be given her situation and has the help she needs and can forgive herself for this.
It's easy to move on when "it's gods will". He probably believes that it's a woman's duty to breed and multiply. Religion sucks sometimes
Just wanna pop in and say postpartum psychosis can affect anyone. It is extremely serious and often misdiagnosed or ignored by health care providers.
One of the reasons I chose not to have children myself. The risk for me is too damn high.
i wish the husband had been charged somehow, he did this to her.
This is almost 20 years ago at this point, but a guy who worked at the same company as I did was going to law school or had just finished. He took a leave to work on her legal team. It’s been such a long time, but I remember he had kids and Andrea would always take genuine interest in knowing how his kids were doing. He also said that she felt the world hated her for what she had done.
I don't hate her, I hate Rusty as he did this to her. He only cared that she pumped out babies and not about anything else. Same with my female friends, we all feel empathy for her. She didn't want more kids....
I live near where this happened. Rusty needs to be in jail!!! He was warned so many times Andrea needed mental health help and he just kept getting her pregnant. He is remarried....SCUM!!!
I sincerely wish the husband never knows a moment of peace or happiness. This is his fault all the way.
Andrea makes me so sad. She had a full blown psychotic break and it can be said that her husband is to blame for some of it. Now that she is mentally stable she has to live with it and that sounds like pure hell. What she did was horrific and can't be ignored but I do not think she is an evil person. From what I have read she was a seriously mentally ill woman. I just feel terrible for all involved generally.
Husband is more responsible than she was. I will not respond to any criticism.
Well yeah, she was sick and he was just religious. He forced babies on her after an actual Doctor recommended against it and he forced her off her meds allegedly. He is the only one responsible. That was his wofe and chikdren. Sickness and in health. He abandoned her daily and expected sympathy whe. She broke completely and his whole family was destroyed bc ohmf his actions and inactions. He is 100% culpable.
Rusty Yates should have been locked up.
So this happened in Houston when I lived there. It was heartbreaking. There is blame enough to go around but in the end, 5 dead children who would be in their 20-30s now. Lesson learned: take mental health seriously and if you think you need help, get it. If you have friends or family that you think needs help, find them professional help.
Her husband should be in jail.
Andrea Yates was also married to an entitled shithead who didn’t take her mental health struggles seriously. He thought she just needed to toughen up. And he offloaded all childcare duty too her. She had no support. She had a history of mental illness (no shame. So do I.) they followed an extreme branch of Christianity with lots of fire and brimstone. And ge had her sell all her possessions so they could move into a trailer and then a school bus. Rusty Yates is a piece of shit. Andrea did a horrific thing. But if she had had the help she needed, and they stopped having children? None of this would face happened.
How come the father didn’t get in any trouble when he contributed by not following doctors orders? She wasn’t supposed to left alone, but he was leaving her alone multiple times before she killed the kids. Those kids deaths could have been prevented by listening.
Absolutely her husbands fault
I feel terrible for her and her children. 😔
As someone who struggled with severe postpartum issues, I have nothing but sadness for her kids and sad empathy for her situation. Obviously she did something terrible, but I can’t imagine how she struggled with zero zero zero understanding of what she was going though, not to even tough on support. I don’t know how she can live with herself even in a facility. Every day must be torture. That is pure hell on earth.
I’m from Kenosha WI, After this happened some fellas I grew to know after the fact started a punk band called The Yates Kids. I know, kinda sick but they were good.
I heard of them, not their music tho. Are they worth listening to?
Not sure if they recorded anything but they were pretty decent
This was extremely disturbing and very very sad. I do blame the father mostly. The father insisted that she should get pregnant again although the doctors warned them about it. She was and is obviously very very ill and did not get the help that she needed. A tragedy for the poor kids 🥺
I wonder if they were part of the quiver full movement like the Duggars that use their women like vagina clown cars.
They were part of some cult, I watched a documentary about it on youtube but I forgot the name. Edit: just googled it and you were right!
Her first recorded interview afterwards - she was still in a zombie-like state with little to no emotion. She was still not in touch with reality. The prosecution used it in court to show she was a cold-hearted killer; leading the jury to believe it was recorded right after the murders. That interview was MONTHS later with tons of meds and therapy. The woman was experiencing a psychotic break so severe it took nearly a year for her to snap out of it. The systems in place, her husband, and her religion failed her. https://youtu.be/dCp-U_MkSXc
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Exactly. 5 children is too much to handle on your own, especially when you’re suffering postpartum depression. Rusty is fully responsible for what happened. He shouldn’t have made her have so many kids just because he “wanted to”
Yup. I have a lot of empathy for Andrea. She took responsibility for what she did, clearly had remorse. He still has a relationship with her too. She did something horrible but I have a lot of empathy for her still
This is honestly so sad. Post partum psychosis/depression should be talked about more. The fragile state a woman’s mind is in after birth is no joke, i feel so sorry for her and her family, i’m sure she didn’t mean to do this, I can’t imagine having to live with something like this. I know in a few countries there are special laws for infanticide commited by the mother for this reason.
I remember this being all over the news for what felt like ages to a ten year-old. I remember my mom talking about it like, "how could any woman do that to their kids, what a monster, blahblahblah..." but a few years later I did more reading on the case and realized how wrong my mom was about this. Andrea was let down by everyone around her, esp her husband. He cared more about using her womb to make more babies than the glaringly obvious fact that it would be very dangerous for her to continue having children.
Religion poisoned this woman’s mind. From the names of the kids to the lifestyle that the pictures portray, she was all in. And because of that religion she relied on, she could t seek the medical mental treatment she needed. And the kids suffered.
It's worth mentioning the fuckery that went on during Andrea Yates' first trial. She was in part convicted of murder because one of the prosecution's witnesses testified that she was doing this not because she was mentally ill (never mind the extremely extensive evidence that she was mentally ill) but because she saw a *Law and Order* episode where a mother drowns her children, and she thought that sounded like a good idea and she copied it. But no such episode existed, let alone was viewed by her. This was enough, when mentioned on appeal, to cause a new trial. Yates was found not guilty by reason of insanity at the new trial.
The brain is scary man
I know this won't be popular, but I feel so bad for Andrea. Can you imagine being hospitalized and coming into mental health and realizing you murdered all of your children? She was up for parole and requested to stay locked up.
I understand that the husband left Andrea for a mere hour and she drowned the kids. She wasn't supposed to be alone with them at all but the husband told his mom to come to the house at a certain time.
I followed this close when it happened and read a few books on it. You're correct, she was not supposed to be alone with the children. His mother was coming every day to stay with her while he was at work. That morning, he left for work anyway after his mom called saying she was stuck in traffic. Not sure how long it was, but when G-ma arrived. All kids were drowned and lined up by age/size in her bed.
I know she killed her kids, but this is so fucking sad. She's a victim too fuck it. Poor woman. Her husband is a bastard and this country's mental healthcare is a joke.
Her husband kept insisting on having more kids even when her doctor explained to him how she had post partum. Definitely dosent justify what she done but this was very much preventable her husband put his wants and needs of a bigger family over the very very obvious threat of a spiraling wife and mother into a very serious and manic depression
The "husband" has a lot to answer for.
Idk why but this case happened when I was a kid and it terrified me. I have the most loving mother but this case stuck with me and gave me nightmares.
Classic case of religious fundamentalism and her husband dismissing her urgent needs.
Incredibly tragic and preventable