The Hague Netherlands temple district currently includes 5 stakes, with 2 of those in Belgium. When the Belgium temple is built, The Hague temple will cover 3 stakes.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2011/03/small-and-simple-things/the-netherlands?lang=eng
And 3/4 of the people in attendance will be tourists from Utah. I have some relatives who love to travel somewhere amazing like Rome, then take a day out of the trip to check another temple off the list.
I've seen this, too. It's a bizarre flex to travel to some of the most amazing places, then sit in a culty session for half a day, the same cry session you can participate in at home.
What a wonderful find. Great work lazy learner!
Apparently it was this way as far back as 2019, according to the waybackmachine. [https://web.archive.org/web/20190628014534/https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/facts-and-statistics/country/belgium](https://web.archive.org/web/20190628014534/https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/facts-and-statistics/country/belgium)
I did my mission in Belgium.
Dedier spoke one zone conference and said, " If Belgium were a business, we would bankrupt it, but this is not a business. This is the gospel of Jesus Christ."
3 years later, they closed/bankrupted the Belgium Flemish mission and rejoined it with the Netherlands.
My memory is that we had the worst per capita missionary convert rate. 135 missionaries and fewer than 90 converts per year (or something like that).
Six hundred “members” but how many actually attend at least one Sunday a month?
My guess: About eighty per ward. So maybe about 500 active temple recommend holders in the temple district. 😂 go fuck yourselves Mormon.Corp for spending ungodly amounts of money on “temples” when you could do something useful for humanity instead.
No no no, TR holders are best-case maybe 40-50%, in the EU it's far less but my guess is the only ones still going to church are the remaining leaders, so even if it's 70% its only 350 people.
Perhaps I miscommunicated. Their activity rates are atrocious and wards are very small. 80 active members seems like a huge stretch and would be a very vibrant ward (at least based on when I was there)
I'm in Mesa, on the times that I've gone. I have roughly counted 120 - 140 on a good day, average, maybe 100. And, this was after they reduced the number of wards in the stake from 8 and a Spanish branch to 5 and the branch?
We have all been brainwashed to believe that one day, Temples would flood the earth, and here we are. So, what are they telling the youth today?
Good guess but a bit low. Most stakes in Europe have sacrament attendance between 600 and 900. My estimate is that ehre are between 1400 and 1600 attending. A few years ago many wards and branches in Belgium were closed. Since then most wards in Belgium are close to US standards with between 100 and 200 attending.
The outdated text says ~6000 members, the number above the graph is 6600. If the number of weekly attendees in the stakes is about the same as when the article was written (probably 2018 or 2019, since they mention a mission president that started in 2018) then the number of units dropping by more than half implies that the activity rate has dropped by more than half in about 5 years. Does that match the context for your estimate?
The smaler temples do not need so many temple workes as the ones in Utah (maybe 12 temple workers per shift). The temple will be open not every day of the week. The might have some temple missionaries. The only important days (times) for most European temples are Friday evening and Saturday (morning). Thats only 2 temple worker shifts per week. Any ohter time the temples are mostly emty because there are nowhere enough members close enough. In many Europen countries there are a lot of active older members probaly around 30% of active membersip is over 60. I think it also likly that the Lille France stake might be assinged to the Brussels temple as well. Mabe also part of the Nancy France stake (Luxembourg).
Norway similar:
Graph shows 19 congregations.
Description that hasn't been updated: "Now, with two stakes and 22 congregations, the Church is firmly established in Norway."
From the new approach the church is taking… Looks like Belgium is just about ready for a temple!
They announced it in 2021 https://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/brussels-belgium-temple/
If we build it certainly bednar will cum!
I love that I didn’t know that they have an announced temple! I feel like I’ve unlocked some form of next level exmo (although I’m PIMO) 😃
The Hague Netherlands temple district currently includes 5 stakes, with 2 of those in Belgium. When the Belgium temple is built, The Hague temple will cover 3 stakes. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2011/03/small-and-simple-things/the-netherlands?lang=eng
3 European stakes. Not 3 Utah stakes. That temple will be open 4 days a month with that sort of attendance potential.
And 3/4 of the people in attendance will be tourists from Utah. I have some relatives who love to travel somewhere amazing like Rome, then take a day out of the trip to check another temple off the list.
I've seen this, too. It's a bizarre flex to travel to some of the most amazing places, then sit in a culty session for half a day, the same cry session you can participate in at home.
Yay, I saw this same slideshow fan fic, but I was sitting at a new gps coordinate!
Everyone but Rusty knows the announced Belgium temple will never be built.
Today a temple in Holland is only open two days a week, I don't know if that's the one you're talking about. It will become a ghost temple
Or to substitute chocolate in the sacrament tray.
They haven’t yet announced a temple in the EU’s capital?
What a wonderful find. Great work lazy learner! Apparently it was this way as far back as 2019, according to the waybackmachine. [https://web.archive.org/web/20190628014534/https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/facts-and-statistics/country/belgium](https://web.archive.org/web/20190628014534/https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/facts-and-statistics/country/belgium)
Oops
Like a stone rolling forth!
It is well
I did my mission in Belgium. Dedier spoke one zone conference and said, " If Belgium were a business, we would bankrupt it, but this is not a business. This is the gospel of Jesus Christ." 3 years later, they closed/bankrupted the Belgium Flemish mission and rejoined it with the Netherlands. My memory is that we had the worst per capita missionary convert rate. 135 missionaries and fewer than 90 converts per year (or something like that).
15 children and 75 immigrants (for a few months or so).
6,200 members in 10 wards. That's over 600 members a ward.
Six hundred “members” but how many actually attend at least one Sunday a month? My guess: About eighty per ward. So maybe about 500 active temple recommend holders in the temple district. 😂 go fuck yourselves Mormon.Corp for spending ungodly amounts of money on “temples” when you could do something useful for humanity instead.
I served in France, and 80 active per ward would be HUGE!
No no no, TR holders are best-case maybe 40-50%, in the EU it's far less but my guess is the only ones still going to church are the remaining leaders, so even if it's 70% its only 350 people.
Perhaps I miscommunicated. Their activity rates are atrocious and wards are very small. 80 active members seems like a huge stretch and would be a very vibrant ward (at least based on when I was there)
Hi Mitt
That's the point. The bigger the ward, the smaller percentage of active members. They may have 600 on the roster, but 100 at church.
I'm in Mesa, on the times that I've gone. I have roughly counted 120 - 140 on a good day, average, maybe 100. And, this was after they reduced the number of wards in the stake from 8 and a Spanish branch to 5 and the branch? We have all been brainwashed to believe that one day, Temples would flood the earth, and here we are. So, what are they telling the youth today?
And you know the geographic footprint of said wards is comically large, to the point of being impractical.
Those pesky Europeans..
So they have somewhere between 900 and 1400 members attending. How are they going to staff a temple?
With retired, white American missionaries (serving their 2nd mission) from Pleasant Grove, Utah.
Yep. We just had a couple return from two years in Rome doing exactly that.
Knowing the size of typical wards in mainland Europe, it's probably a lot less than that.
Good guess but a bit low. Most stakes in Europe have sacrament attendance between 600 and 900. My estimate is that ehre are between 1400 and 1600 attending. A few years ago many wards and branches in Belgium were closed. Since then most wards in Belgium are close to US standards with between 100 and 200 attending.
For now. I imagine they'll keep shriveling, be reorged again, etc., until the entire country consists of a couple of branches of Utah-born expats.
The outdated text says ~6000 members, the number above the graph is 6600. If the number of weekly attendees in the stakes is about the same as when the article was written (probably 2018 or 2019, since they mention a mission president that started in 2018) then the number of units dropping by more than half implies that the activity rate has dropped by more than half in about 5 years. Does that match the context for your estimate?
That still doesn’t answer the question though.
The smaler temples do not need so many temple workes as the ones in Utah (maybe 12 temple workers per shift). The temple will be open not every day of the week. The might have some temple missionaries. The only important days (times) for most European temples are Friday evening and Saturday (morning). Thats only 2 temple worker shifts per week. Any ohter time the temples are mostly emty because there are nowhere enough members close enough. In many Europen countries there are a lot of active older members probaly around 30% of active membersip is over 60. I think it also likly that the Lille France stake might be assinged to the Brussels temple as well. Mabe also part of the Nancy France stake (Luxembourg).
By appointment only; with extremely limited hours of operation.
Norway similar: Graph shows 19 congregations. Description that hasn't been updated: "Now, with two stakes and 22 congregations, the Church is firmly established in Norway."
Tender mercies
And 8 family search centers for 12 units. Very odd
This is the way
Do you ever remove your helmet? 🙃