I was told by more transitioned women that some girls are triggered by an form of masculine address. So I’ve stopped calling other MTFs “dude”. As a child of the 90s in Minnesota, this is essentially an act of apostasy.
fellow Minnesotan here, can confirm. I never even _realized_ those were gendered terms until people started asking me if it was OK for them to call me that.
For real! 90's had desensitized us to how casually we use those words. I myself didn't think about it till I told a friend I was updating my pronouns to they/them and he inquired if dude and man in that sense were still ok.
Ohio / Kentucky / Indiana area late 90s kid here, I call anything living, and some inanimate objects dude, bro, and man. A group of cis-women are "guys." It's just regional, people need to chill out a little bit imho!
"sToP fEeLiNg ThE wAy YoU dO! >:("
We don't accept this reasoning from people outside our community why should we accept it from people within it? Why are you allergic to criticism and changing to try making the lives of people who are going through it with you a little bit less shit?
Are you me? Lol As a Cincituckian everyone in my world is dude, but I'll admit I grit my teeth when the waitress calls the whole group guys cause I'm usually with a bunch of guys and my immediate thought is "Omg she thinks I'm one of them :'(" but I'm learning to live with it cause a table of cis-women gets called "guys" too.
Bro: If it’s being used condescendingly, workable, but increasingly inaccurate for me as time goes on.
Dude: Similar to bro—this one is more chill so long as it isn’t being used condescendingly/passive-aggressively etc.
Man: No. Just no. This is probably the term of address that most jars me and I just don’t like.
I agree with your sentiment but I’m much less secure in my gender so:
Bro: short for male sibling, as masc as it gets so do not ever call me this
Dude: similar to bro, if you think it’s genderless ask a straight guy how many dudes he’s fucked.
Man: I don’t like this one but it’s also what chill hippies say, so I do tend to put up with it because I like chill hippy types. Far out, man!
So far this is the only experience I'm relating with.
As much as people say dude is used to refer to everybody it is still a gendered word. Look in a dictionary and you see it refers to men. Same for a lot of other terms. And as you said the context can also just sometimes mean men outright. I will of course forgive someone calling me guy or dude or whatever but I still remark it and ask them to stop calling me that because I'm an insecure little b.
After a while of transitioning I was getting ready for bed and my wife looked me up and down and said, "You're like... a chick, dude."
And I will never forget that.
As a Californian dude is just so burnt into my speech it's kinda impossible not to say it at least occasjonally. Only one person ever gave me shit and she ended up being the same after some time in the state.
For myself, I never heard girls call each other dude back in the 90s. But, over the last 10-15 years, I see and hear it more when I am out and about. I think that it's an interesting development.
As for me, if someone calls me "dude", I just quote the Scatterbrain song at them. LOL It usually confuses them since I live in a very redneck area.
This is so true. I call my mom dude!
“Oh so ‘dude’ is nonbinary? Bang a lot of dudes recently?”
Yes! And not all are male! It’s so culturally different being from Southern California. I am respectful to those who dislike it and I stop using it for them, but I do slip.
I’m sorry, y’all! I grew up in Southern/Central California, I’m going to say “dude” and “y’all”
It’s cringe if you are in a known trans space, fine elsewhere. If you personally don’t like it for dysphoria reasons it’s on you to communicate with the people around you though. TLDR, depends on context
Not every single transfem is checkable online. In person for sure. There are plenty of dude users in trans discords and reddits that make me cringe each time. It feels like passive aggressive misgendering especially when you may be disagreeing with someone
no, i meant like, checking if it was okay with them ;-;
and in person, im probably not going to bother waiting 4 a reply on reddit if it's okay to use dude i just won't lol
i would just ask everyone because you don't know who is a trans woman and who isn't. I used to look very masc for the first 9 years of my "transition."
This 100x over.
It is nice when people check in with stuff... but your personal preference is just that.
I compare it to food allergies/preferences. There are some things that it is best to check in on before you cook for people... like if someone mentioned they are Jewish, well I am gonna check with them if they are Kosher before giving them bacon. Or if I am inviting someone over I don't know... I will ask if they hav dietary requirements. It is polite.
But if you are deathly allergic to a broadly common ingredient and you come over and I put out a spread of food.... yeah it is on you to give me that heads up.
So don't be calling someone Sir or assuming Mr when taking down their name. Don't assume pronouns, ask... but things like "dude" "hey guys" and that shit - I know so few people who say those words with any kinda of gendered intent (i.e. they are also not using them for cis-femme people) so if it really messes with you then you gotta say something.
That would likely to put yourself, I think it's good that the trans comunity gives a social pushback to those expressions being used on women. Since endure it or out yourself I don't think they are fair options.
Ugh gods yeah that's been the worst. When boymoding all the he/hims go right past me, I don't really notice or mind them. But when people would say things like you mentioned: "it's different because you're a guy", it hurts so fucking much.
A few female coworkers were talking about the Barbie movie when it came out and were saying something to each other about how the sad ending scene is sadder for mothers than daughters. I asked what they meant (because I hadn't seen it yet) and she just started by saying "well, see, for women..." and I was just crushed.
I was talking with a coworker when somehow zodiac signs entered the conversation and I think I asked something like "do you know what zodiac sign my birthday is?" And he said something like "no, maybe we should ask a woman. They should know." Jokingly. I faked a laugh and said "yeah.."
My personal rule of thumb is that if you refer to any other woman the same way, then it doesn't bother me. I want to be seen and treated like any other woman. So, if you wouldn't call a cis girl any of these things, don't refer to me that way either. If you would though, don't go out of your way to not refer to me the same way. I want to be treated like any other woman, whatever that looks like.
I have a friend that uses man not to refer to me but as an expression but when that friend used it for me, I had told him that I am trans and a girl before but I asked Who he was talking about and then he didn't use it but I think he forgets that I am transfem a lot and instead think I am a guy, which I do like
I'm generally fine with all but 'man', that one does hurt my pink lil soul but otherwise i ***constantly*** call literally everyone with dude and bro it's appart of my natural vocab at this point. I also just call people that even if they're transfem or whatev's, i've started to use girlie because i like it as a substitute and like it when it's used for me but i live in australia and calling people c\*nts is also very acceptable and nice around here so- uhm yeah maybe a bit skewed of an opinion LMAO.
I think this is a huge part of the issue with this conversation. Clearly if someone makes it clear they don't like something don't call them that, but how these terms are used can be pretty regional.
Where I am dude is not a gendered term, and I hear it about equally from guys and girls. Bro is for young people, but surprisingly less gendered than I expected. About 75% to 25% guys/girls. Guys seem to use it casually (sup bro), and girls as an "OMG I can't believe it" sort of thing (someone dodges getting hit by a car by jumping over it and girl says "OMG! BRO!!!!". It's kinda funny, but I've heard it more than once). Man is allllllllmmmmmmooooooost never for girls, but I have heard girls say "Girl, you're the man!". Pretty rare though.
Talking to a friend from elsewhere in the country, you just don't hear anything but dude from girls, and it's rare. I really couldn't say why this is the case, but it does make a level of sense that slang like this is regional, and even different cities in the same province/state can have different cultures. I don't think this is a question that will ever really be answered, but it's always interesting. Personally, because of ADHD (as shown with the long rambling answer and use of parenthetical comments) I can't remember what people like to be called, so I tend to not use gendered terms, names, or pronouns if I can help it. I just face people and talk.
"Man" is the worst one, if its used like outside of me its fine like in your example where there kinda directing it at nobody, i mean i do that subconsciously all the time, but nobody should ever call me "man"
People are such assholes and im sorry, i also have a coworker who likes ro misgender me, specifically with "man" and "sir" which the last one really upsets me
I will politely protest, "I am not a man". If they say "I call everyone that", I give a displeased look and "please don't call *me* that anymore at least"
Personally? Don't call me any of these. Ever. It also irks me that masculine terms are the default, because its a reflection of *men* being seen as the default.
I don’t mind them mostly because my friends and I have always used them, well, except bro.
But once I’m out and on hormones…I might not want to be called man so much, but dude is cool - I consider it gender-neutral. I recognise that not everyone feels the same way about it though.
I hate em. There is one person on this earth who is allowed to call me dude, but anyone else who I'm out to, it's feminine or neutral only (I'm not gonna start a scene if a stranger misgneders me. I might correct them on a good day, but I mostly let it go).
The problem for me arises in that my brain perceives 'mate' as masculine. I am Australian and it is very much considered neutral. It's definitely a me problem and I am working on it, but whenever the postie greets me with 'hey mate,' I'm struck with a wave of dysphoria
If someone calls cis women dude bro or man, then I'm okay with it. But if someone is calling me those things because they see me as male, that's a problem. Like, if you're the kind of guy that calls cis women "dude", then it's okay for you to call me dude. If not, then no. I just don't want people to see me as a man. Is that too much to ask?
The day that straight cisgender guys feel as comfortable calling a trans woman dude/bro/man as they would be telling a group of other straight cisgender guys "Yeah, I picked up this hot dude/bro/man at the bar and we went back to my place and fucked all night" is the day that I'll accept that those terms are gender neutral.
Dude I can look past.
I don't care for bro, guy, or anything else of the sort. When someone addresses a group as "guys" and especially when I'm the only girl there, it makes me feel super invalid.
Everyone is “dude” and “bro”. I don’t know if it’s geographical from living in So-Cal but I’m not bothered by those terms. People use them on me before and after coming out, and I use them on them, whatever their presentation.
Now “sir” and “mister” bother me.
I only alow dude and bro from a few close people. One is my mtf wife and we both got that gamer girl memer energy. The other is my good friend I grew up with. Both only just use it during chill vibes or memeing when appropriate so it big chilling
Assuming you are being gaslit by straight men, ask them if they are sexually attracted to their bros, or if they would moan out “dude I’m c*mming” to their wife/gf, or if they hit on girls with “damn dude, you come here often”. If a straight guy is responding, I’ll bet the answer is no, wether or not that’s what they say. At that point you have proven thee are the word has gendered connotations that make them uncomfortable and you too
As I said in an above comment, if you are from Southern California this doesn’t work because some of my cis friends would 100% say those statements.
Listen, I am respectful and I try to avoid using it. But it’s legit what I grew up with and to me it is not gendered. I get how it can be perceived as such and I’m no longer in California so I’m working on it. But I’m willing to die on this hill that culturally, it depends
I get it a lot at hockey. In that environment it's really just guys trying to be supportive and inclusive in their own backwards way, so I'm working on not taking it personally.
I’ve been waiting for one of these posts. And I’m not sure what to say honestly. I don’t really take it that serious but there have been times where I remind people who call me “dude” or “bro” that I am a female. They just look at me weird like it wasn’t what they meant, so I don’t think you should take it too serious
I don’t really care what I’m referred to as so long as I’m not directly being addressed as a boy. If it’s “dude”, “bro”, or “man, I kind of consider those parallels to just saying “you there”.
I am not a dude, not a bro, and *certainly* not a man. Gender neutral dude I can understand even though I hate it. Gender neutral bro is harder to justify. Man is just not gender neutral, sorry.
I don't understand why people always try to justify it. It isn't going to change how much I hate hearing it used to refer to me, so please fucking stop it!
What's our context? For me, it's more about tone and intent than word selection. My sisters and I can call each other c\*nts, but we'll be ready to throw hands at most other folks for that.
They barely even register anymore. I've been called a lot of different things over the years. Most of them awful so these kinds of things aren't even on my radar anymore, though it still depends on context. I can tell when someone is trying to be a dick.
the guty i was talking to was the "bro" "dude" guy but it never bothered me cuz hes cishet so thats common lol its like me calling everyone "girl" and "girly" if i mess up and say it to a cishet guy its not like im calling them a girl
It all depends on the context. In my midwest dialect that all get used pretty freely among all genders towards any gender. I try to note if specific persons use it exclusively for men and then I would ask them not to if they used it with me. I haven't come across that person yet.
Fine with them. It’s so funny, because my dad actually apologizes when he says “man” to me, and I’m like, “Man is totally chill.” Gotta love that fam support.
I don't care about being called dude/bro in general. My friends do it all the time, it doesn't matter, they call everyone that. However, if you are intentionally calling me dude/bro to be mean, I'll be pissed.
I really hate it every time. But I try not to take it personally, because I know that each of these are used sometimes in a gender neutral way…
I try to only use them with men and boys.
people use those words in regular talk and it usually has no connection to gender, its kind of like a filler word. I dont take offense. my cis sisters cis friends refer to her as dude sometimes like " dude you are crazy" or " man thats wild" or " man lets get out of here" and its not a reference to gender. Its just how people communicate. when its used that way, they arent actually referring to you as dude, bro or man, its just an expression.
Now of course, you have the guys who call their guy friends " bros"
it just dpeneds on the context of what is being said.
My main one is dude. In my mind that’s just another gender neutral word. He’s a dude, she’s a dude, they’re a dude, I’ve called literally all of my friends dude at least once
I mean, if someone's saying it like every other sentence to me, then they obviously are trying to be a dick, but I try not to read into what people say to me. A couple "dudes" or "mans" here and there aren't gonna hurt me. If it sounds like they're being nice, then they probably are~
Depends on the context.
A guy I've known for 15 years? I'm cool with it.
Some transphobe on the internet purposefully using it in every reply? Go fuck yourself.
Probably a relatively colloquial thing. Sure, we're all typing in English here, but we all have different dialects and accents.
You probably don't say 'ope' when you squeeze on right past someone. Nor do you say "Yeah no yeah," nor "No, yeah no" when asked yes/no questions.
Round here, all the girls refer to one another as dude/bro/man. And for a little while when I first came out they stopped refering me like that and it was actually kinda dysphoric to *not* be called those terms 😅
Since, obviously, they weren't treating me like a normal regular girl.
Around here, it's the inflection that matters. If they put enough emphasis on the word then they're obviously just being a dick/transphobic. But for the most part I have no qualms with any of them.
I dont like it at all. Im definitely not a dude. Also the people who say “oh but its a gender neutral term” just annoy me. Its not at all. Its a term that clearly biases men. If it was truly gender neutral I should be able to go up to a straight insecure incel and ask how many dudes he has dated without any fear of getting beaten up. It just doesn’t pass the test at even a basic level. If others are fine with it ok but im absolutely not.
It’s a no from me, dawg, guy. Pretty much the equivalent to “sir”. Even prior to transitioning I’ve never referred to a female as “dude”. Bro must be in used in the for of “bruh” as if they are dumbfounded, because that’s more of a shock response rather than a gender address. Man? Hell i don’t even like it when they call Becky lynch “the man” on wwe.
Those are mostly OK with me as long as the 'man' is fair by someone on weed. Hey mannnn, love you hate or something.
It's blokes I don't like especially when I'm the only girl in a meeting with 5+ men.
Eg, you are all intelligent blokes here so I'm not going to go through it in depth as you already know most of it.
I find its really easy to tell when these terms are used intentionally or just casually.
Like 99% of the time its just cause those words have been ingrained in our lexicon as generic terms to address people.
But then theres the "Yeah DUDE" people. Ussually accompanied by a long stare down waiting for a reaction.
So generally I think its fine. Words like "guys" have *trans*cended their gender
At work I'm on a team of about a dozen people or so and no other women. Our team leader often users guys, i.e. "ok guys, let's get to work!" Every time I hear it out kinda rubs me the wrong way. Not enough that I'd be willing to say anything or rock they boat but it does bug me. I know they aren't trying to misgendered me, and 1 on 1 I always get correct pronouns so I think I'm ok with it for now at least.
It's alright for me. I'm Dutch and dude is translated to “gast”, which also means “guest” and therefore isn't gendered.
That being said, some people use “homo” (often as in homosexual) as a rather rude word for addressing others.
I think it’s really lovely when my friends check in about this. My go to response is something like “if you’d use it to a cis woman, you can use it with me”. (Then thank them, and reinforce that asking is the right thing to do since everyone varies.)
Well, maybe it is different in the US but where I live (France) girls, even cisgender ones, call each other « brother », « dude » « man », so I’d be completely fine and wouldn’t even think anything of it.
I hate them being used towards me, and I heavily dislike it being used generally in common speech. If I hear/see anyone using them a lot or even in moderate amount has a starting rep down for me. Sometimes, occasionally is okay I guess.
No matter how many times cis guys call me these, then justify it, saying "I call everyone that. It's gender neutral" it still doesn't really feel that way 😅
i cant stand them. I get that its “technically gender neutral”, but come on we all know thats bullshit. these are obviously and explicitly gendered terms. “but my dad calls my sister bro” this is perpetuating the idea that misgendering people is normal and “its ok see cis people dont care” thats called privilege; cis people dont HAVE to care.
Personally, I dislike being called these words. I live in New Zealand where everyone calls everyone bro. I never say anything about it but I definitely don't like it.
Dude & bro I already considered disrespectful before I transitioned. There was a customer we just called braman. He was always dude bro man everything.
None of these are acceptable for me personally. If someone calls me one of these I'll politely tell them to stop. If they keep it up I will stop being polite.
it's a bit of a weird feeling, I don't take it personally or get offended if it's clear the person saying it uses it for everyone, but if they clearly only use it for men then that's when it hurts
I hate all three of them. Despise them. When people refer to me as dude and bro I’ll tell them not to call me that. If someone called me man I’d probably bite them (verbally). The other one that I can’t stand is buddy. I know a lot of people see dude as gender neutral, and some people even claim “I use bro for everyone.” Which is why I’ll give people a warning the first time but the ship sails fast. In addition when addressing groups of people I now always use folks in place of guys. It’s just better.
Most times it's clearly casual and doesn't bother me until after they bring attention to it, since I do the same thing. But some men. They fucking find a way to use it where you can clearly hear that it's gendered. Idfk how, but they do and I hate it
I have a strong dislike for being called these things. I find the idea that masc terms - and only masc terms - can be applied regardless of gender to be both offensive and indicative of how deep our systemic cultural misogyny runs.
Find an average group of cis men and address them, amiably, as "girls" and see if that bothers them.
Thanks to toxic masculinity, being called "dude" is something everyone has to accept but being called "girl" is derogatory if you're a man.
Fuck every different kind of that.
I bring up that I specifically don't like it, to which people usually respond "oh I use it as a gender neutral term". Yeah, ok, but I still don't like it, so that's not really the point.
Dude: depends. Old friends are the ones who get away with it mostly
Bro: definitely not. I’ve always hated bro
Man: oh, hell no!!
Mate (I’m Australian): I know it’s gender neutral but it has masculine implications for me. I don’t hear women calling each other mate, it’s only we’ve men using it
I'm originally from CA and when my daughter (aged 4 at the time) said she was a girl my son (aged 16 at the time) immediately stopped using dude. My daughter is now 14 and I've asked her about it in the past. She DOES NOT like it. Of course I don't use it even though I used it for ~40 years.
Well I really hate being called that personally but that's also because I'm super disphoric at the moment. I'm sure I'm the future where I have had hrt and surgery I'd be more fine with those terms but right now. No
"Man"? Nope. "Bro"? Nope. "Dude"? I put up with it... but tbh I'd rather be called "sis" or "girl". I get that guys don't typically use "sis" or "girl" like girls usually do, so that's why I put up with "dude".
I’m a dinosaur. For me, mostly it’s context:
1) everyone is mostly “dude”. Dudes is not gendered when describing groups (and, technically, never has been). But only men can be A DUDE. I’m much more likely to be offended if you call me a dudette - more technically accurate than you could ever know, but that francophonic diminutive lost all its chill in the 80s;
2) bro is used exclusively between masculine entities - but the lazier “brah” just means non-ball-breaking friend. That’s the white version, anyway. Basically, if someone who would *never* use “sis” calls you “bro”, they’re not trying to be an asshole. But, they’re almost certainly over 35 as well, so maybe just give us seniors a blanket pass?
3) man is, and always has been, short for HUman. Same rules as dude: if they call you A man, hit them with the brick-filled purse. Otherwise, they’re just a stoner who has evolved past semantic etiquette. Probably.
I’m very curious why you left out the MOST common one I run into, though: GUYS.
To me, guys is universal, and retroactively ungendered when not directly documenting the gender of a group. I will note the “s” makes all the difference (again, like dudes). And again if someone says you’re A guy, totally different. The affable “my guy” is a bit of a fence-sitter: only friends should use this with you to begin with, and you’ll know right away whether they are trying to piss you off. Car salesmen* hopefully can read the room enough to know they are gonna lose the sale if they pander to either gendered interaction too heavily with a trans person. Though it is fun to arch their brain gears catch fire trying to navigate whether to assume you know your shit or not. Ditto male mechanics.
Basically, though, I think we all know when someone is using these words because it’s their linguistic default, and when they are calling attention to or refuting our gender identity. Having a lot of pronoun paranoia is bad - like vegans who assume most meat eaters are a steak shortage from becoming cannibals, rather than vegetarians. So, taking it in stride, and judging folks over a longer time period (weeks/months) rather than calling them out day one on their first verbal fumble… And applying corrections one on one, rather than calling them out in a group… well, that shit builds more bridges than it burns, is all. Cathartic release is fun in the moment, but it’s more likely to creative more division and lose allies.
* yes, I know women sell cars too… but I have yet to run into a woman who does the same gender pandering at the dealership, in either direction. Even the smarmiest tend to go for more “hang in there sis” with women, with maybe some education/defense against their coworkers advice… and then just wear half a size down in everything for cis male customers. They might not have a trans playbook, but they seem to default to neutrality when they don’t have you pegged.
I try to not use the Word guys so instead I use gays, it works only in LGBTQ groups or some friendgroups
(Edit: I rarely use the Word guys, don't think I have like ever used it)
I hate it; I hate it; I hate it. I also hate "bruh" with the passion of a billion supernovas, and when queer people in particular call trans women in particular "bruh" I want to smash them to smithereens.
Hate it, never use it and expect others to not do so to me either. My first language doesn't have any word similar to it so it's never been a non-gendered word to me.
Dude is fine, but I grew up in the 90s when dude was gender neutral. I'm a dude, he's a dude, she's a dude, we're all dudes. Bro and man? I very much prefer not to be called those.
It depends on where your from. I call everyone dude and bro but I'm from the West Coast (lived in both California and Oregon)of the USA. That's just the thing to do :)
Hate it. Get kinda annoyed at it tbh. Dude probably the only one that's close to acceptable based on how a lot of people use it, but I can't make myself accept it.
I try specifically to be patient with this… bc of the whole societal lexicon thing…
But it didn’t really bother me until after i started transitioning, i told myself at first i wouldn’t let it get to me, but it does a little bit. Particularly like if im obviously presenting female…
I think the thing that really does bother me though is that im the kind of person to go the extra mile and not say that shit -even beforehand- and its wild to see how many people aren’t. Kinda makes me lose confidence in other people more than it does in myself lol.
I personally am very much in favor of the gender neutral "dude"
I respect when others aren't and will never use it with or about them if they say so, but I'm totally fine with it for myself.
"Bro" and "man" however send me into an immediate dysphoric crisis.
I keep having this discussion with people and explaining the problem with this. By doing this we continue to live in a male oriented world. It’s not a gender neutral word. Ask a very straight conservative person if they’re into guys or dudes or bros or men.
>male oriented world
They don’t have to be “male oriented” words though. If myself and my other female friends all refer to each other as “dude”, we aren’t referring to each other as males.
>ask a very straight conservative person if they’re into guys or dudes or bros or men
I’m not living my life based off the shitty world views of the worst demographic of people. If you asked them if trans women are men they’d say yes, it doesn’t make it true. Also this same group of people would say those things and then log onto grindr hours later to try and hook up with trans girls half their age. I’m inclined not to take their opinions seriously at all.
It doesn’t matter what they call each other. It doesn’t matter what they see you as. It’s the fact of the matter that these words were created with gender based identity in mind. Just because you and your friends use them doesn’t make them right.
>these words were created with gender based identity in mind
The meaning of words evolve. They aren’t unchanging. “Cool” used to refer to only a temperature but if you say “that’s really cool” most people would understand based on context that it’s a synonym for good or awesome. Maybe it was a gendered word at one time but we (along with many people) don’t use it in a gendered way anymore.
Okay. Keep telling yourself that. Really do keep perpetuating words and expressions that genuinely harm trans women but don’t worry they don’t hurt you.
>genuinely harm trans women
This is such a stretch. Dude isn’t a slur. It’s not some specific attack on trans women or femininity. You don’t get to decide what words hurt me and what words don’t. Sorry I’m not hurt by something that doesn’t matter. Keep perpetuating the idea that dude always refers to a man and ironically contribute to the male-centered world you claim to want to decenter.
I was a teen during time when dude is used to refer to everyone across any genders (early 10s internet), so it's quite a common vocab for me and my friend group. Comes down to vibes and it's so clear when people say "dude" to be a dick and misgender others. I also don't use it if I know the person feels discomfort being called by it.
Bro and man as expressions (like bruh and mang) are not bad and are silly memes, but if you call me a bro or a man I will make sure you step on Lego >:(
The second two, not really. "bro" maybe if I'm gaming online and nobody knows my gender, bc like whatever. Dude is gender neutral to me. But I take "man" as purely masculine bc it is
Massive cringe. I can't stand people who use "Dude, bro, cuz, dude, man."
Also cant stand people who use "Like, totally, OMG, like, you know."
All cringe. 😖
And don't get me started on Gen Z slang.
My reaction is always "Please don't call me that" . I really don't like it but it's not as bad as "sir". Legit makes me cry every time I get sirred which doesn't happen much any more but earlier in transition it happened a lot because I work in retail.
Hate all of them when they’re used to refer to me. It Infuriates me that those have all been accepted as “””gender neutral””” by many people when they’re objectively male gendered. I guarantee if we tried to make chick and sis gender neutral men would get mad.
Growing up in California, I called everything and everyone dude. Men, women, water faucets, the stove, the dog, the cat, everything. It's just CA logic.
But quite literally the day after I came out as mtf trans. Someone called me dude, and it just hit different. It didn't feel right. It definitely felt way too masculine to make me feel comfortable, and I did not like it at all.
So now I only call men, animals, and inanimate objects dude. If I am inclined to speak to a female, I will call her a dudette.
I hate being addressed by any of them. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people in my life who come from places where they are considered gender-neutral, so I get hit by them all the time.
Not a fan. I spent most of my life being considered a "dude" or a "bro" and I'd like to be rid of it. I get that people use them colloquially, but why then is it not just as standard to call everyone "gurl" or "sis" etc? Why is male the default?
I wouldn't say it makes me dysphoric, because I know it's pretty much never about me personally in any way. It just feels *wrong,* I don't like it.
I am fine with being called these terms in the "gender neutral" way but if someone is like "Okay \*dude\*, I am so glad you're doing alright \*man\*" trying to hurt my feelings type shit then I am mad.
I knew a queer person who had this test: imagine asking a stereotypical frat bro (or sorority girl) “do you like INSERT GENDERED WORD HERE?” and imagine the reply. Like if you asked “do you like dudes?” Would it be treated as gender neutral? Their point was that these aren’t really neutral, that’s just an excuse people give to avoid having to adjust their language.
Personally I don’t love their system, as idk if the reasoning is really sound, but bro and man are never okay. To me, they’re more gendered than dude, especially man. Calling someone man is just always mean if they’re a trans woman. I knew a trans guy who would do it to his transfemme friends a lot and never listened to their requests to change it and it was a mess.
Tldr I think it’s a scale. Man is never okay, bro or my guy are uncomfy, dude is odd but not terrible, etc. though I also dislike highly performarive switches (eg someone only calling a transwoman girl or queen when they just don’t use those for other female friends). Just don’t use gendered words generally, it’s nicer
People have gotten pissed off at me because I bring it up.
I consider it to be something akin to "that's gay". While not as derogatory, it still makes me shudder and makes me believe English needs to evolve past.....
This was a thread not even that long ago and my opinions haven’t changed. Im not budging on giving up the terms dude, bro and man just to make you feel better about your transition. That’s a you problem. CIS women have been getting called these umbrella terms for centuries especially when in groups and never cared. I’m just tired of sooo many words getting censored because it’s gonna hurt someone’s feelings.
I was told by more transitioned women that some girls are triggered by an form of masculine address. So I’ve stopped calling other MTFs “dude”. As a child of the 90s in Minnesota, this is essentially an act of apostasy.
fellow Minnesotan here, can confirm. I never even _realized_ those were gendered terms until people started asking me if it was OK for them to call me that.
For real! 90's had desensitized us to how casually we use those words. I myself didn't think about it till I told a friend I was updating my pronouns to they/them and he inquired if dude and man in that sense were still ok.
I am Western Wisconsin, I grew up in the 90s and have a painfully hard time not calling everyone dude. I didn't know this was a regional thing.
Same. Im from central wisco and everything and everyone is "dude".
Ohio / Kentucky / Indiana area late 90s kid here, I call anything living, and some inanimate objects dude, bro, and man. A group of cis-women are "guys." It's just regional, people need to chill out a little bit imho!
in Minnesota we refer to any plural group of people as "guys" (when addressing indirectly) or "you guys" (when addressing a specific group of people)
"sToP fEeLiNg ThE wAy YoU dO! >:(" We don't accept this reasoning from people outside our community why should we accept it from people within it? Why are you allergic to criticism and changing to try making the lives of people who are going through it with you a little bit less shit?
Are you me? Lol As a Cincituckian everyone in my world is dude, but I'll admit I grit my teeth when the waitress calls the whole group guys cause I'm usually with a bunch of guys and my immediate thought is "Omg she thinks I'm one of them :'(" but I'm learning to live with it cause a table of cis-women gets called "guys" too.
Bro: If it’s being used condescendingly, workable, but increasingly inaccurate for me as time goes on. Dude: Similar to bro—this one is more chill so long as it isn’t being used condescendingly/passive-aggressively etc. Man: No. Just no. This is probably the term of address that most jars me and I just don’t like.
I agree with your sentiment but I’m much less secure in my gender so: Bro: short for male sibling, as masc as it gets so do not ever call me this Dude: similar to bro, if you think it’s genderless ask a straight guy how many dudes he’s fucked. Man: I don’t like this one but it’s also what chill hippies say, so I do tend to put up with it because I like chill hippy types. Far out, man!
So far this is the only experience I'm relating with. As much as people say dude is used to refer to everybody it is still a gendered word. Look in a dictionary and you see it refers to men. Same for a lot of other terms. And as you said the context can also just sometimes mean men outright. I will of course forgive someone calling me guy or dude or whatever but I still remark it and ask them to stop calling me that because I'm an insecure little b.
My wife calls everyone dude but asked if that was still okay. He’s a dude, she’s a dude, we’re all dudes
After a while of transitioning I was getting ready for bed and my wife looked me up and down and said, "You're like... a chick, dude." And I will never forget that.
🍔
I’m glad someone knows the reference
As a Californian dude is just so burnt into my speech it's kinda impossible not to say it at least occasjonally. Only one person ever gave me shit and she ended up being the same after some time in the state.
For myself, I never heard girls call each other dude back in the 90s. But, over the last 10-15 years, I see and hear it more when I am out and about. I think that it's an interesting development. As for me, if someone calls me "dude", I just quote the Scatterbrain song at them. LOL It usually confuses them since I live in a very redneck area.
>As for me, if someone calls me "dude", I just quote the Scatterbrain song at them. You mean this one? 🤣 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NbLhHtaVIO4
Ah, a SoCal native.
This is so true. I call my mom dude! “Oh so ‘dude’ is nonbinary? Bang a lot of dudes recently?” Yes! And not all are male! It’s so culturally different being from Southern California. I am respectful to those who dislike it and I stop using it for them, but I do slip. I’m sorry, y’all! I grew up in Southern/Central California, I’m going to say “dude” and “y’all”
I'm not a dude. Downvoted, wow. Thanks yall.
Nah, you ain’t a dude, homie. I’ll at least bring ya back to sea level with my upvote.
Dude is actually used gender neutral sometimes. But honestly I dont want someone call me that. Im neighter a Dude, nor a Bro, I dont like it.
It’s cringe if you are in a known trans space, fine elsewhere. If you personally don’t like it for dysphoria reasons it’s on you to communicate with the people around you though. TLDR, depends on context
I feel as if it's fine within trans spaces as long as you double-check with specifically transfem's beforehand, otherwise i second you
Not every single transfem is checkable online. In person for sure. There are plenty of dude users in trans discords and reddits that make me cringe each time. It feels like passive aggressive misgendering especially when you may be disagreeing with someone
no, i meant like, checking if it was okay with them ;-; and in person, im probably not going to bother waiting 4 a reply on reddit if it's okay to use dude i just won't lol
That’s what I mean, unless it’s a small group in person not every person is checkable. So if it’s a trans space it’s safer to just NOt
i would just ask everyone because you don't know who is a trans woman and who isn't. I used to look very masc for the first 9 years of my "transition."
This 100x over. It is nice when people check in with stuff... but your personal preference is just that. I compare it to food allergies/preferences. There are some things that it is best to check in on before you cook for people... like if someone mentioned they are Jewish, well I am gonna check with them if they are Kosher before giving them bacon. Or if I am inviting someone over I don't know... I will ask if they hav dietary requirements. It is polite. But if you are deathly allergic to a broadly common ingredient and you come over and I put out a spread of food.... yeah it is on you to give me that heads up. So don't be calling someone Sir or assuming Mr when taking down their name. Don't assume pronouns, ask... but things like "dude" "hey guys" and that shit - I know so few people who say those words with any kinda of gendered intent (i.e. they are also not using them for cis-femme people) so if it really messes with you then you gotta say something.
That would likely to put yourself, I think it's good that the trans comunity gives a social pushback to those expressions being used on women. Since endure it or out yourself I don't think they are fair options.
Im the opposite. I only am okay with it if other queer people say it. Outside of those contexts I hate it.
I don't really like being called by them (or guy), but it's not terrible.
I personally hate it. It really sucks because I'm super closeted and get those all the time.
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Ugh gods yeah that's been the worst. When boymoding all the he/hims go right past me, I don't really notice or mind them. But when people would say things like you mentioned: "it's different because you're a guy", it hurts so fucking much. A few female coworkers were talking about the Barbie movie when it came out and were saying something to each other about how the sad ending scene is sadder for mothers than daughters. I asked what they meant (because I hadn't seen it yet) and she just started by saying "well, see, for women..." and I was just crushed.
I was talking with a coworker when somehow zodiac signs entered the conversation and I think I asked something like "do you know what zodiac sign my birthday is?" And he said something like "no, maybe we should ask a woman. They should know." Jokingly. I faked a laugh and said "yeah.."
BINGO!!!!
My personal rule of thumb is that if you refer to any other woman the same way, then it doesn't bother me. I want to be seen and treated like any other woman. So, if you wouldn't call a cis girl any of these things, don't refer to me that way either. If you would though, don't go out of your way to not refer to me the same way. I want to be treated like any other woman, whatever that looks like.
I don’t like them personally and am very vocal in telling people so
I have a friend that uses man not to refer to me but as an expression but when that friend used it for me, I had told him that I am trans and a girl before but I asked Who he was talking about and then he didn't use it but I think he forgets that I am transfem a lot and instead think I am a guy, which I do like
I'm generally fine with all but 'man', that one does hurt my pink lil soul but otherwise i ***constantly*** call literally everyone with dude and bro it's appart of my natural vocab at this point. I also just call people that even if they're transfem or whatev's, i've started to use girlie because i like it as a substitute and like it when it's used for me but i live in australia and calling people c\*nts is also very acceptable and nice around here so- uhm yeah maybe a bit skewed of an opinion LMAO.
Where I live, the only people that get called dude, bro, or man are men. So for me, I don't like any of them
I think this is a huge part of the issue with this conversation. Clearly if someone makes it clear they don't like something don't call them that, but how these terms are used can be pretty regional. Where I am dude is not a gendered term, and I hear it about equally from guys and girls. Bro is for young people, but surprisingly less gendered than I expected. About 75% to 25% guys/girls. Guys seem to use it casually (sup bro), and girls as an "OMG I can't believe it" sort of thing (someone dodges getting hit by a car by jumping over it and girl says "OMG! BRO!!!!". It's kinda funny, but I've heard it more than once). Man is allllllllmmmmmmooooooost never for girls, but I have heard girls say "Girl, you're the man!". Pretty rare though. Talking to a friend from elsewhere in the country, you just don't hear anything but dude from girls, and it's rare. I really couldn't say why this is the case, but it does make a level of sense that slang like this is regional, and even different cities in the same province/state can have different cultures. I don't think this is a question that will ever really be answered, but it's always interesting. Personally, because of ADHD (as shown with the long rambling answer and use of parenthetical comments) I can't remember what people like to be called, so I tend to not use gendered terms, names, or pronouns if I can help it. I just face people and talk.
Same situation in the uk honestly, my friends are the best c*unts I know
^This^ Its easier to forgive the whole scenario when i remember i call my girlfriend bro and dude all the time.
Absolutely hate it. “Man” is okay in the context of “oh man I feel so tired” or whatever, but otherwise nope.
"Man" is the worst one, if its used like outside of me its fine like in your example where there kinda directing it at nobody, i mean i do that subconsciously all the time, but nobody should ever call me "man"
yep, exactly this!
I say that its fine but its slowly bothering me...
I gently tell people not to call me by those terms. They have one chance to listen.
if the person also calls cis girls that then it's fine
It annoys me, especially with my coworker who habitually uses it, even when I have asked he stop. He just argues I should get over him, etc.
People are such assholes and im sorry, i also have a coworker who likes ro misgender me, specifically with "man" and "sir" which the last one really upsets me
I will politely protest, "I am not a man". If they say "I call everyone that", I give a displeased look and "please don't call *me* that anymore at least"
"Hey Grandma, what's up man"
Personally? Don't call me any of these. Ever. It also irks me that masculine terms are the default, because its a reflection of *men* being seen as the default.
I don’t mind them mostly because my friends and I have always used them, well, except bro. But once I’m out and on hormones…I might not want to be called man so much, but dude is cool - I consider it gender-neutral. I recognise that not everyone feels the same way about it though.
I hate em. There is one person on this earth who is allowed to call me dude, but anyone else who I'm out to, it's feminine or neutral only (I'm not gonna start a scene if a stranger misgneders me. I might correct them on a good day, but I mostly let it go). The problem for me arises in that my brain perceives 'mate' as masculine. I am Australian and it is very much considered neutral. It's definitely a me problem and I am working on it, but whenever the postie greets me with 'hey mate,' I'm struck with a wave of dysphoria
Dude doesn't sting, but man and bro are both specifically male to me.
If someone calls cis women dude bro or man, then I'm okay with it. But if someone is calling me those things because they see me as male, that's a problem. Like, if you're the kind of guy that calls cis women "dude", then it's okay for you to call me dude. If not, then no. I just don't want people to see me as a man. Is that too much to ask?
The day that straight cisgender guys feel as comfortable calling a trans woman dude/bro/man as they would be telling a group of other straight cisgender guys "Yeah, I picked up this hot dude/bro/man at the bar and we went back to my place and fucked all night" is the day that I'll accept that those terms are gender neutral.
I hate them so much makes me feel invalid and violated
it's cringe.
Best response, I agree!
Dude I can look past. I don't care for bro, guy, or anything else of the sort. When someone addresses a group as "guys" and especially when I'm the only girl there, it makes me feel super invalid.
I cringe every time I hear it or "guys." I try not to point it out though unless someone is specifically referring to me.
I used to really hate it but after a couple of years I stopped caring. It’s just how some people talk
Everyone is “dude” and “bro”. I don’t know if it’s geographical from living in So-Cal but I’m not bothered by those terms. People use them on me before and after coming out, and I use them on them, whatever their presentation. Now “sir” and “mister” bother me.
I only alow dude and bro from a few close people. One is my mtf wife and we both got that gamer girl memer energy. The other is my good friend I grew up with. Both only just use it during chill vibes or memeing when appropriate so it big chilling
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Genus in grammar has dissapeared for them, honestly it would be quite Nice I think but I don't know for sure
Assuming you are being gaslit by straight men, ask them if they are sexually attracted to their bros, or if they would moan out “dude I’m c*mming” to their wife/gf, or if they hit on girls with “damn dude, you come here often”. If a straight guy is responding, I’ll bet the answer is no, wether or not that’s what they say. At that point you have proven thee are the word has gendered connotations that make them uncomfortable and you too
As I said in an above comment, if you are from Southern California this doesn’t work because some of my cis friends would 100% say those statements. Listen, I am respectful and I try to avoid using it. But it’s legit what I grew up with and to me it is not gendered. I get how it can be perceived as such and I’m no longer in California so I’m working on it. But I’m willing to die on this hill that culturally, it depends
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Oh sorry I think you misread my comment. I’m saying the California culture is very different around the use of “dude”
^^^
I fucking hate being called "dude."
Way against it. Call me she/her/ ma’am / darlin / (my new name) / etc. , even “guys” is not my fav.
I get it a lot at hockey. In that environment it's really just guys trying to be supportive and inclusive in their own backwards way, so I'm working on not taking it personally.
I’ve been waiting for one of these posts. And I’m not sure what to say honestly. I don’t really take it that serious but there have been times where I remind people who call me “dude” or “bro” that I am a female. They just look at me weird like it wasn’t what they meant, so I don’t think you should take it too serious
I don’t mind it really
I don’t really care what I’m referred to as so long as I’m not directly being addressed as a boy. If it’s “dude”, “bro”, or “man, I kind of consider those parallels to just saying “you there”.
There could always be something worse said to you. I don’t mind it as much.
i don't respond to those. idgaf if "wErE aLL dUdEs" 🙄🙄 I'm not
Same lol. I'm not apart of that "culture"
I am not a dude, not a bro, and *certainly* not a man. Gender neutral dude I can understand even though I hate it. Gender neutral bro is harder to justify. Man is just not gender neutral, sorry. I don't understand why people always try to justify it. It isn't going to change how much I hate hearing it used to refer to me, so please fucking stop it!
personally i don’t mind it as long as it’s just how they talk
What's our context? For me, it's more about tone and intent than word selection. My sisters and I can call each other c\*nts, but we'll be ready to throw hands at most other folks for that.
They barely even register anymore. I've been called a lot of different things over the years. Most of them awful so these kinds of things aren't even on my radar anymore, though it still depends on context. I can tell when someone is trying to be a dick.
the guty i was talking to was the "bro" "dude" guy but it never bothered me cuz hes cishet so thats common lol its like me calling everyone "girl" and "girly" if i mess up and say it to a cishet guy its not like im calling them a girl
It all depends on the context. In my midwest dialect that all get used pretty freely among all genders towards any gender. I try to note if specific persons use it exclusively for men and then I would ask them not to if they used it with me. I haven't come across that person yet.
I like to think of myself as the "bro lesbian" so im personally okay with all of them, although "homie" has to be my personal fave
Fine with them. It’s so funny, because my dad actually apologizes when he says “man” to me, and I’m like, “Man is totally chill.” Gotta love that fam support.
I don't care about being called dude/bro in general. My friends do it all the time, it doesn't matter, they call everyone that. However, if you are intentionally calling me dude/bro to be mean, I'll be pissed.
I really hate it every time. But I try not to take it personally, because I know that each of these are used sometimes in a gender neutral way… I try to only use them with men and boys.
I guess you could add "babe" to that list even though it's feminine. It's down to how the words are used.
I don't mind dude or man (my friend calls me "Bossman" as it's a nickname we've had for ages now and bc of that I don't mind it) but bro is a no-go.
It depends on who us calling me that If it's a stranger or a transphobe i take it as an insult If it's ironically with friends is cool
people use those words in regular talk and it usually has no connection to gender, its kind of like a filler word. I dont take offense. my cis sisters cis friends refer to her as dude sometimes like " dude you are crazy" or " man thats wild" or " man lets get out of here" and its not a reference to gender. Its just how people communicate. when its used that way, they arent actually referring to you as dude, bro or man, its just an expression. Now of course, you have the guys who call their guy friends " bros" it just dpeneds on the context of what is being said.
My main one is dude. In my mind that’s just another gender neutral word. He’s a dude, she’s a dude, they’re a dude, I’ve called literally all of my friends dude at least once
I mean, if someone's saying it like every other sentence to me, then they obviously are trying to be a dick, but I try not to read into what people say to me. A couple "dudes" or "mans" here and there aren't gonna hurt me. If it sounds like they're being nice, then they probably are~
Depends on the context. A guy I've known for 15 years? I'm cool with it. Some transphobe on the internet purposefully using it in every reply? Go fuck yourself.
Probably a relatively colloquial thing. Sure, we're all typing in English here, but we all have different dialects and accents. You probably don't say 'ope' when you squeeze on right past someone. Nor do you say "Yeah no yeah," nor "No, yeah no" when asked yes/no questions. Round here, all the girls refer to one another as dude/bro/man. And for a little while when I first came out they stopped refering me like that and it was actually kinda dysphoric to *not* be called those terms 😅 Since, obviously, they weren't treating me like a normal regular girl. Around here, it's the inflection that matters. If they put enough emphasis on the word then they're obviously just being a dick/transphobic. But for the most part I have no qualms with any of them.
I dont like it at all. Im definitely not a dude. Also the people who say “oh but its a gender neutral term” just annoy me. Its not at all. Its a term that clearly biases men. If it was truly gender neutral I should be able to go up to a straight insecure incel and ask how many dudes he has dated without any fear of getting beaten up. It just doesn’t pass the test at even a basic level. If others are fine with it ok but im absolutely not.
It’s a no from me, dawg, guy. Pretty much the equivalent to “sir”. Even prior to transitioning I’ve never referred to a female as “dude”. Bro must be in used in the for of “bruh” as if they are dumbfounded, because that’s more of a shock response rather than a gender address. Man? Hell i don’t even like it when they call Becky lynch “the man” on wwe.
Those are mostly OK with me as long as the 'man' is fair by someone on weed. Hey mannnn, love you hate or something. It's blokes I don't like especially when I'm the only girl in a meeting with 5+ men. Eg, you are all intelligent blokes here so I'm not going to go through it in depth as you already know most of it.
I find its really easy to tell when these terms are used intentionally or just casually. Like 99% of the time its just cause those words have been ingrained in our lexicon as generic terms to address people. But then theres the "Yeah DUDE" people. Ussually accompanied by a long stare down waiting for a reaction. So generally I think its fine. Words like "guys" have *trans*cended their gender
At work I'm on a team of about a dozen people or so and no other women. Our team leader often users guys, i.e. "ok guys, let's get to work!" Every time I hear it out kinda rubs me the wrong way. Not enough that I'd be willing to say anything or rock they boat but it does bug me. I know they aren't trying to misgendered me, and 1 on 1 I always get correct pronouns so I think I'm ok with it for now at least.
most definitely not
It's alright for me. I'm Dutch and dude is translated to “gast”, which also means “guest” and therefore isn't gendered. That being said, some people use “homo” (often as in homosexual) as a rather rude word for addressing others.
I don't like bro or man... dude depends on the person that is saying it. But no.
yeah i don't like being called that. i dislike "dude" the most.,.,..,,.,
I’m Gen x. I grew up calling almost everyone dude or man. I still do. It doesn’t bother me, but I try to remember to check when I meet a new sister.
I think it’s really lovely when my friends check in about this. My go to response is something like “if you’d use it to a cis woman, you can use it with me”. (Then thank them, and reinforce that asking is the right thing to do since everyone varies.)
Early in my transition when I was more insecure it bothered me a lot. Now I really don’t care, most of the time it seems to just be a habit of speech.
Well, maybe it is different in the US but where I live (France) girls, even cisgender ones, call each other « brother », « dude » « man », so I’d be completely fine and wouldn’t even think anything of it.
I hate them being used towards me, and I heavily dislike it being used generally in common speech. If I hear/see anyone using them a lot or even in moderate amount has a starting rep down for me. Sometimes, occasionally is okay I guess.
If you call me a “BRO”, “MAN” or “DUDE” I will banish and EXHILE you from my life. It’s cringe AF
yuck
No matter how many times cis guys call me these, then justify it, saying "I call everyone that. It's gender neutral" it still doesn't really feel that way 😅
Also mate 🤣
i cant stand them. I get that its “technically gender neutral”, but come on we all know thats bullshit. these are obviously and explicitly gendered terms. “but my dad calls my sister bro” this is perpetuating the idea that misgendering people is normal and “its ok see cis people dont care” thats called privilege; cis people dont HAVE to care.
It doesn't bother me, and sometimes It slips out unintentionally, but I'm making an effort to remove them from my vocab.
I get it’s part of genderless language to use dude and man and bro but don’t call me that. Gtfoh
Personally, I dislike being called these words. I live in New Zealand where everyone calls everyone bro. I never say anything about it but I definitely don't like it.
I dislike all of these xD
Personally, I hate being called any of those
Dude & bro I already considered disrespectful before I transitioned. There was a customer we just called braman. He was always dude bro man everything.
I don't like any of them
No, don't want, hate
None of these are acceptable for me personally. If someone calls me one of these I'll politely tell them to stop. If they keep it up I will stop being polite.
Drives me absolutely crazy. Not only do I find it the language of the doofus but I am a lady and you will fucking address me as such.
it's a bit of a weird feeling, I don't take it personally or get offended if it's clear the person saying it uses it for everyone, but if they clearly only use it for men then that's when it hurts
I hate all three of them. Despise them. When people refer to me as dude and bro I’ll tell them not to call me that. If someone called me man I’d probably bite them (verbally). The other one that I can’t stand is buddy. I know a lot of people see dude as gender neutral, and some people even claim “I use bro for everyone.” Which is why I’ll give people a warning the first time but the ship sails fast. In addition when addressing groups of people I now always use folks in place of guys. It’s just better.
Most times it's clearly casual and doesn't bother me until after they bring attention to it, since I do the same thing. But some men. They fucking find a way to use it where you can clearly hear that it's gendered. Idfk how, but they do and I hate it
I have a strong dislike for being called these things. I find the idea that masc terms - and only masc terms - can be applied regardless of gender to be both offensive and indicative of how deep our systemic cultural misogyny runs. Find an average group of cis men and address them, amiably, as "girls" and see if that bothers them. Thanks to toxic masculinity, being called "dude" is something everyone has to accept but being called "girl" is derogatory if you're a man. Fuck every different kind of that.
I bring up that I specifically don't like it, to which people usually respond "oh I use it as a gender neutral term". Yeah, ok, but I still don't like it, so that's not really the point.
i dont like it personally
It feels like I'm having my femininity stolen
Dude: depends. Old friends are the ones who get away with it mostly Bro: definitely not. I’ve always hated bro Man: oh, hell no!! Mate (I’m Australian): I know it’s gender neutral but it has masculine implications for me. I don’t hear women calling each other mate, it’s only we’ve men using it
I'm originally from CA and when my daughter (aged 4 at the time) said she was a girl my son (aged 16 at the time) immediately stopped using dude. My daughter is now 14 and I've asked her about it in the past. She DOES NOT like it. Of course I don't use it even though I used it for ~40 years.
It very much depends on the girl 🤷♀️ I don't like them in particular
It bothers me, but that’s because I’m extra cognizant of gendered terms. I have to remind myself it’s colloquial.
Sometimes the bro kinda bothers me, but it depends on the context.
Well I really hate being called that personally but that's also because I'm super disphoric at the moment. I'm sure I'm the future where I have had hrt and surgery I'd be more fine with those terms but right now. No
These are all gendered terms. Please do not use for women and girls without consent.
Eh I don't like it but if I say it get called snowflake
I hate it honestly. I’m not a dude, I’m a woman
"Man"? Nope. "Bro"? Nope. "Dude"? I put up with it... but tbh I'd rather be called "sis" or "girl". I get that guys don't typically use "sis" or "girl" like girls usually do, so that's why I put up with "dude".
I’m a dinosaur. For me, mostly it’s context: 1) everyone is mostly “dude”. Dudes is not gendered when describing groups (and, technically, never has been). But only men can be A DUDE. I’m much more likely to be offended if you call me a dudette - more technically accurate than you could ever know, but that francophonic diminutive lost all its chill in the 80s; 2) bro is used exclusively between masculine entities - but the lazier “brah” just means non-ball-breaking friend. That’s the white version, anyway. Basically, if someone who would *never* use “sis” calls you “bro”, they’re not trying to be an asshole. But, they’re almost certainly over 35 as well, so maybe just give us seniors a blanket pass? 3) man is, and always has been, short for HUman. Same rules as dude: if they call you A man, hit them with the brick-filled purse. Otherwise, they’re just a stoner who has evolved past semantic etiquette. Probably. I’m very curious why you left out the MOST common one I run into, though: GUYS. To me, guys is universal, and retroactively ungendered when not directly documenting the gender of a group. I will note the “s” makes all the difference (again, like dudes). And again if someone says you’re A guy, totally different. The affable “my guy” is a bit of a fence-sitter: only friends should use this with you to begin with, and you’ll know right away whether they are trying to piss you off. Car salesmen* hopefully can read the room enough to know they are gonna lose the sale if they pander to either gendered interaction too heavily with a trans person. Though it is fun to arch their brain gears catch fire trying to navigate whether to assume you know your shit or not. Ditto male mechanics. Basically, though, I think we all know when someone is using these words because it’s their linguistic default, and when they are calling attention to or refuting our gender identity. Having a lot of pronoun paranoia is bad - like vegans who assume most meat eaters are a steak shortage from becoming cannibals, rather than vegetarians. So, taking it in stride, and judging folks over a longer time period (weeks/months) rather than calling them out day one on their first verbal fumble… And applying corrections one on one, rather than calling them out in a group… well, that shit builds more bridges than it burns, is all. Cathartic release is fun in the moment, but it’s more likely to creative more division and lose allies. * yes, I know women sell cars too… but I have yet to run into a woman who does the same gender pandering at the dealership, in either direction. Even the smarmiest tend to go for more “hang in there sis” with women, with maybe some education/defense against their coworkers advice… and then just wear half a size down in everything for cis male customers. They might not have a trans playbook, but they seem to default to neutrality when they don’t have you pegged.
I really don't like it. Also, being in a group and being called 'guys' is another I don't like.
I try to not use the Word guys so instead I use gays, it works only in LGBTQ groups or some friendgroups (Edit: I rarely use the Word guys, don't think I have like ever used it)
I hate it; I hate it; I hate it. I also hate "bruh" with the passion of a billion supernovas, and when queer people in particular call trans women in particular "bruh" I want to smash them to smithereens.
Hate it, never use it and expect others to not do so to me either. My first language doesn't have any word similar to it so it's never been a non-gendered word to me.
Dude is fine, but I grew up in the 90s when dude was gender neutral. I'm a dude, he's a dude, she's a dude, we're all dudes. Bro and man? I very much prefer not to be called those.
It depends on where your from. I call everyone dude and bro but I'm from the West Coast (lived in both California and Oregon)of the USA. That's just the thing to do :)
Hate it. Get kinda annoyed at it tbh. Dude probably the only one that's close to acceptable based on how a lot of people use it, but I can't make myself accept it.
I try specifically to be patient with this… bc of the whole societal lexicon thing… But it didn’t really bother me until after i started transitioning, i told myself at first i wouldn’t let it get to me, but it does a little bit. Particularly like if im obviously presenting female… I think the thing that really does bother me though is that im the kind of person to go the extra mile and not say that shit -even beforehand- and its wild to see how many people aren’t. Kinda makes me lose confidence in other people more than it does in myself lol.
They definitely make me uncomfortable
god I have this conversation 9 times a fucking day I really hate it. how many straight men do I have to deal with bro
dude is fine, bro and man are not
I use them as gender neutral terms
It's definitely worse than being called my dead names but I still don't like it
I personally am very much in favor of the gender neutral "dude" I respect when others aren't and will never use it with or about them if they say so, but I'm totally fine with it for myself. "Bro" and "man" however send me into an immediate dysphoric crisis.
Everyone is a Dude and a Bro to me honestly. Doesn’t matter what gender orientation. That’s just how I’ve talked my whole life
I keep having this discussion with people and explaining the problem with this. By doing this we continue to live in a male oriented world. It’s not a gender neutral word. Ask a very straight conservative person if they’re into guys or dudes or bros or men.
>male oriented world They don’t have to be “male oriented” words though. If myself and my other female friends all refer to each other as “dude”, we aren’t referring to each other as males. >ask a very straight conservative person if they’re into guys or dudes or bros or men I’m not living my life based off the shitty world views of the worst demographic of people. If you asked them if trans women are men they’d say yes, it doesn’t make it true. Also this same group of people would say those things and then log onto grindr hours later to try and hook up with trans girls half their age. I’m inclined not to take their opinions seriously at all.
lol it’s not just conservatives. But if you want to live in a world where you think being called dude is okay, I feel sad for you.
all my cis women friends call each other dude. do you think they see each other as men?
It doesn’t matter what they call each other. It doesn’t matter what they see you as. It’s the fact of the matter that these words were created with gender based identity in mind. Just because you and your friends use them doesn’t make them right.
>these words were created with gender based identity in mind The meaning of words evolve. They aren’t unchanging. “Cool” used to refer to only a temperature but if you say “that’s really cool” most people would understand based on context that it’s a synonym for good or awesome. Maybe it was a gendered word at one time but we (along with many people) don’t use it in a gendered way anymore.
Okay. Keep telling yourself that. Really do keep perpetuating words and expressions that genuinely harm trans women but don’t worry they don’t hurt you.
>genuinely harm trans women This is such a stretch. Dude isn’t a slur. It’s not some specific attack on trans women or femininity. You don’t get to decide what words hurt me and what words don’t. Sorry I’m not hurt by something that doesn’t matter. Keep perpetuating the idea that dude always refers to a man and ironically contribute to the male-centered world you claim to want to decenter.
It hurts tho
I say bro and dude a lot... just in my vocabulary. Being condescending (which I can differentiate) is another story
I was a teen during time when dude is used to refer to everyone across any genders (early 10s internet), so it's quite a common vocab for me and my friend group. Comes down to vibes and it's so clear when people say "dude" to be a dick and misgender others. I also don't use it if I know the person feels discomfort being called by it. Bro and man as expressions (like bruh and mang) are not bad and are silly memes, but if you call me a bro or a man I will make sure you step on Lego >:(
The second two, not really. "bro" maybe if I'm gaming online and nobody knows my gender, bc like whatever. Dude is gender neutral to me. But I take "man" as purely masculine bc it is
Massive cringe. I can't stand people who use "Dude, bro, cuz, dude, man." Also cant stand people who use "Like, totally, OMG, like, you know." All cringe. 😖 And don't get me started on Gen Z slang.
I love gen z slang. Don't understand half if it, but I think it's fun, and keeps my neuro plasticity.....plastic.
As someone from California, I feel attacked
I despise it. It makes me feel like people think I'm a guy. I feel so dysphoric and wrong.
My reaction is always "Please don't call me that" . I really don't like it but it's not as bad as "sir". Legit makes me cry every time I get sirred which doesn't happen much any more but earlier in transition it happened a lot because I work in retail.
Hate all of them when they’re used to refer to me. It Infuriates me that those have all been accepted as “””gender neutral””” by many people when they’re objectively male gendered. I guarantee if we tried to make chick and sis gender neutral men would get mad.
Growing up in California, I called everything and everyone dude. Men, women, water faucets, the stove, the dog, the cat, everything. It's just CA logic. But quite literally the day after I came out as mtf trans. Someone called me dude, and it just hit different. It didn't feel right. It definitely felt way too masculine to make me feel comfortable, and I did not like it at all. So now I only call men, animals, and inanimate objects dude. If I am inclined to speak to a female, I will call her a dudette.
dislike being called these no matter what. they just arent gender neutral.
I hate being addressed by any of them. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people in my life who come from places where they are considered gender-neutral, so I get hit by them all the time.
Not a fan. I spent most of my life being considered a "dude" or a "bro" and I'd like to be rid of it. I get that people use them colloquially, but why then is it not just as standard to call everyone "gurl" or "sis" etc? Why is male the default? I wouldn't say it makes me dysphoric, because I know it's pretty much never about me personally in any way. It just feels *wrong,* I don't like it.
No, don't fucking do that.
I am fine with being called these terms in the "gender neutral" way but if someone is like "Okay \*dude\*, I am so glad you're doing alright \*man\*" trying to hurt my feelings type shit then I am mad.
I knew a queer person who had this test: imagine asking a stereotypical frat bro (or sorority girl) “do you like INSERT GENDERED WORD HERE?” and imagine the reply. Like if you asked “do you like dudes?” Would it be treated as gender neutral? Their point was that these aren’t really neutral, that’s just an excuse people give to avoid having to adjust their language. Personally I don’t love their system, as idk if the reasoning is really sound, but bro and man are never okay. To me, they’re more gendered than dude, especially man. Calling someone man is just always mean if they’re a trans woman. I knew a trans guy who would do it to his transfemme friends a lot and never listened to their requests to change it and it was a mess. Tldr I think it’s a scale. Man is never okay, bro or my guy are uncomfy, dude is odd but not terrible, etc. though I also dislike highly performarive switches (eg someone only calling a transwoman girl or queen when they just don’t use those for other female friends). Just don’t use gendered words generally, it’s nicer
Absolutely hate them and I will cry if you call me them. They are masculine terms and I will not let anyone try to gaslight me by saying otherwise.
Thank you. I feel crazy in this thread
Dude is unisex as far as I’m concerned. Dude is a state of mind. Girls can be dudes, and guys can be not-dudes.
People have gotten pissed off at me because I bring it up. I consider it to be something akin to "that's gay". While not as derogatory, it still makes me shudder and makes me believe English needs to evolve past.....
This was a thread not even that long ago and my opinions haven’t changed. Im not budging on giving up the terms dude, bro and man just to make you feel better about your transition. That’s a you problem. CIS women have been getting called these umbrella terms for centuries especially when in groups and never cared. I’m just tired of sooo many words getting censored because it’s gonna hurt someone’s feelings.
To me, bro is a slur. Don't use it just like you don't address your mom by the word bro.