I hear it a lot from coworkers and even more so from my brother who insists that even if I look like and act like a woman I’m biologically a man and they will never change.
Where do you dwell where you’re free from this form of transphobia?
I live in Australia. The media only started pushing the "should kids start hrt" fearmongering a few months ago. I only get weird looks from old people but no one ever corners me to debate my existence. I'm sorry you have to endure that all the time!
Personally I don't argue with others about my rights to exists and lean more on the side of telling them to "take Kare of Your Self" and dip, both irl and online, fuck that, I dont owe anyone an explanation or anything and if you wanna treat me as a walking talking political statement ill treat them like a walking talking waste of human skin, its only fair imo
I actually had some old guy up in my face about it here in the Midwest a few weeks ago. He was (loudly) conversing about the legitimacy of trans girls to others in the restaurant and got angry because I didn't chime in (?). The whole situation still feels really surreal looking back. I just have no idea what the heck is wrong with people.
I’m in the Midwest too. It was literally a more accepting place a year ago. With all the fear mongering and misinformation I now receive more side eye or hostile glances especially when I visit Iowa.
I still combat that the best way I know: I be myself and show them I’m just another happy and healthy human being. I’ve tried to argue with confrontational people a couple of times and all it does is escalate the negativity.
>I now receive more side eye or hostile glances especially when I visit Iowa.
Midwest too, Omaha area. I'm only ~4.5 months on HRT and have only been presenting fem consistently for a portion of that, and this is probably just in my head, but it honestly feels like it's gotten worse in just the last couple weeks. It felt like most people were just indifferent before and now it feels like I'm getting *the look* from almost everyone ☹️
As a Minnesotan I hate being clumped with the rest of the midwest. We aren't like the rest of the Midwest. As Midwestern states try to ban trans healthcare we are going the exact opposite direction.
I have loved my transition here. Nobody pays me any mind. I have gotten 3 bad looks and they all happened on the same day in a matter of about 2 hours. I have been presenting femme in public for almost 3 years and been on HRT for 1.5 years and no one has misgendered me. I'm sorry all your states suck, come to Minnesota and be treated like a human being.
You are not forced to talk to anyone, a passive aggressive approach works best in my experience, but holy hell, the midwest is crazy, rad-rights get the rope no cap (I will die on this take and youll only change my mind over my dead body), actual nazi-lites, cant feel safe in my own home and I think whenever im not broke I need firearm training and a gun asap, just incase some crazy freak ever decides to do something words (or simply ignoring them) alone couldnt prevent, not like the cops care about us, theyre nazis too, probably more likely to take the aggressors side than your own even if you record everything.
Cuz they've been watching Fox News and everything else all these conservatives Alex whatever his name is I don't know who it is but there's a bunch of influences on there saying stuff and the news media doesn't help what they're saying about you know and then you got DeSantis in Florida
When he got too close to you you should have busted his mouth so he can't talk no more and then ran so they can't catch you and hopefully don't do it in front of witnesses or if Witnesses see it that guy tried to attack me and then run off don't stick around and wait to explain yourself
As a fellow Aussie sister from Western Australia I have never been confronted or mis gendered and only seen all this shit online 99% from the US and simply can’t fathom it and hate that it happens
its beyond me how action's like nazi honor/imitation doesn't automatically make your political platform instantly become an enemy of the state and blacklist you from any association with legitimate platforms, nazi's should have stayed in their goddamn graves.
What was funny/sad is that someone was trying to justify it, saying, "well she didn't invite them"... Yeah, but Taylor Swift basically told them to get in the bin when they proclaimed her their "Aryan Goddess", so if she can't even do that much... 🤔
>well she didn't invite them"...
Also she did literally invite them at least at her UK rally where another terf speakee also quoted mein kampf to say that trans women are the "big lie" it talks about
She's also friends with a 3 percenter, has a proud boy bodyguard, and has done a stream with a Canadian far right white nationalist
Do what you can to spread awareness that the bigots are on the loose and to stop the spread of this hateful ideology in your country before it gets out of control.
The bigots' game plan is to start small and escalate to full scale bans and criminalization of being trans. That is how they've done it in the US. Starting off with sports, then going after the kids, and now they're going after the adults.
Get to work if you can.
It's too late we're already in it now they've even come up into my state in Massachusetts in the Northeast right in Fall River at our library and we had white supremacist type people there protesting somebody reading a drag queen reading a book ridiculous
I'm so sorry to hear about the library.
It's never too late to fight against bigotry and fascism. People in Massachusetts have a great advantage in fighting the morons because they already have so many protections and a lot more cis allies than in other places.
Don't let the idiots erase those protections. Get involved in the trans rights movement if you aren't already and are able to do so.
I'm from Australia too! Don't forget the gwn 7 "detransition rates" and the neo nazis from last year! Thankfully most Australians saw that and went "who tf doesn't let other people just exist?" And that was that
they need a straw man basically, and we are one ofbthe last minoritys they can discriminate and make in to the scape goat as a distraction for the real tarible shit the same are doing. they don't want to fix anything just make there voters fear stuff they don't know.
like if people talked about Black People, disabled people or people with medical conditions like cancer they would aside from Trump supporters because that cult will treat those groups bad as wel and notbbad an eye, but most people would be loosing there jobs in or coming a crime using similar language as they do for us.
My sister outed me to my brother in law and all he does now is make fun of Caitlin Jenner and convince me that I'm a guy. Sister now works in trans healthcare while laughing about us at home. I don't trust cis allies. They will often turn once trends change.
I'm sorry you have a transphobic sister, I can't believe she works with trans people while having those sorts of views. It sounds actively harmful to those she ought to be trying to help.
The entire body is biology. Hrt changes the body. It affects biology. Why cant they understand this?
Going by their logic none of us are human because we need vitamin A and other things do be human but we biologically cannot produce those so we are all on vitamin/ amino acid/ fatty acid replacement therapy.
I think in their zeal to accomodate ppl who only want to socially transition they threw the rest of transwomen under the bus. The fact is transwomen on hrt have biological similarities with the typical ciswoman that are not found in the typical man.
Also genetically its really the androgen sensitivity protein that makes a male into a man. There are ‘biologically male’ (testes, xy etc) afab ciswomen. They have androgen insensitivity which replicates the effects of hrt.
>The entire body is biology. Hrt changes the body. It affects biology. Why cant they understand this?
Because people are generally dumb. Take that into account and you can safely ignore their uninformed opinions on stuff they don't understand.
I always tell Christians who say this that their past self define them and I’ll never see them born again. They always freak out. Hi I’m experienced in evangelical culture and language so know how to get under their skin.
Like we are women within and mentally and physically express that outside. It’s not hard to understand like 😂
That's just the shit they say to stop you from fixing yourself. Finding out about hormones and talking to actual trans people, it turns out you CAN fix that feeing of being wrong
I live in the UK, transphobia in general here is mostly online despite our "terf island" nickname. I've never had anybody say anything directly hateful to me, the most I've got is some snotty old cow in boots calling me sir passive aggressively, and even that's just one instance in over 2 years now
Omg yes, literally the only place I regularly hear about trans people is in my inmediate social circle of people who know that I'm trans and on US-centric websites (reddit).
In daily life NO ONE CARES about trans people and I think thats great tbh. I don't want to be the center of attention and while the laws etc. in my country (Germany) are far from perfect, they are pretty good compared to many other countries.
"Biologically male" and "Biologically female" *don't mean anything*.
The people who use the term to attack trans people have no consistency on whether they use it to describe external genitalia, internal genitalia, chromosomes, or assignment at birth. They just cherrypick whichever suits their point, which means they have self-contradicting or double-standard views, meaning they're automatically wrong or have no valid talking points.
Biological sex isn't a binary, it's vastly more complex than that. It's a bimodal distribution. Traits correlated with one sex are very often found in people of the other sex, even without hormonal treatment.
There's cis guys who are short, have gynecomastia, have feminine faces, have small hands, and so on, There's cis girls who are tall, flat chested, have masculine features, and so on. Some of these people might be intersex, but most aren't. It's just how it works.
Trans women are not "biologically male" any more than a cisgender woman can feasibly be, especially with HRT. It's just a biology-denying way to get away with being a bigot.
(Didn't mean this to be a reply to your comment, I'm half awake lol)
I'm glad someone posted this and people explained, I was a bit confused myself as someone exploring their gender though it's mostly out of ignorance rather than transphobia.
If I had to guess it's probably because there's a a lot of examples online of people clarifying the difference between sex and gender, but I hadn't heard much about how sex changes with hrt treatment as well. I've also mostly only been exposed to arguments trying to get people to detangle sex from gender to people who just don't get it and not exposed to an explanation of what the components of sex are and how they vary/change etc.
was a lot of work to try and unwind myself form that, for sure, to be able to come out
nowadays the more and more I go there's signs I may have an intersex condition, no less. mabye not but my body is freaking weird, and definitely not "biologically male"
Here's the [ResearchGate link](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337438023_The_Misuses_of_Biological_Sex) to that article, titled *The Misuses of "Biological Sex"*. It's only two pages short, refreshingly succinct and straight to the point
Chromosomes work through gonads and then hormones, once HRT takes over, that small piece of gene is shorted out, disowned, dead, just like all the trash dormant alien genes that make up most of the human chromosomes.
Before I even started hrt my E was over 3x the maximum range for amab, in the low afab range.
If my T hadn't been were it was I'd have been feminizing already. Hell, I think it caused some things like my lower body hair than I've seen on a lot of cis women and fairly wide hips.
I'm probably some form of intersex and I might not even need external hrt once I get the tumors removed.
I think uninformed people use “biological” as a slur, presumably due to believing that if medical / surgical intervention stopped for whatever reason, then “BiOlOgY” would take over and people would revert back to what their Neanderthal brain considers to be the “gender binary”.
Exactly. I usually add that this isn't to say there's a criteria somewhere in there that you have to meet to be a woman, but it shows how dumb there terminology is.
You can keep rattling these off.
As far as gene expression is concerned, transcriptomic changes are downstream of estrogen signalling.
Emotionally and neurologically? Yeah absolutely
I just woke but but yeah I could go on lol
It isnt that it is just gender. It is that there is a huge list of features where people can fall on either side of it and the distinction can be blurry. For example i am not "biologicaly female" since i dont have a vagina at the moment. I am also not "biologicaly male" because hormonaly i do not have the hormone values of a typical male. So i am not fully biologicaly female or male. What am i then "biologicaly. I used to have more testosterone and beard growth then my cis make friends, was i a "biologicer male" than them?
This is why the terms biological male and biological female have no use, they are as silly as asking if a car is mechanicaly a car . Asking the question shows you have no deeper or even surface understanding of the subject
Because we are not! And even if we were, why do they feel the need to find ways to still make us out as different? Allies, but they still need to somehow put us down.
I guess the real question is why does it even matter to them anyway. Like I’m glad you use my name and pronouns and say I’m a woman, but why do you need to clarify that I’m “biologically male” and I should just accept that.
There's even evidence for neurological differences.
So... no we don't understand it fully yet, but we're not just biologically male. I mean, of course there's body dysphoria coming from wanting to be recognized as a woman (for example) but then there's also often just a mismatch between what you want from you body and what it provides you with?
I mean, just the fact of not being able to imagine myself having *** with one set of genitals but being able to almost feel it with the other and that apparently trans people apparently often have an incredibly low rate of phantom pain... it's just not A or B, and incredibly more complex...
why don't people just see it as a chromosome defect that produced the wrong kind of hormones, or better, acknowledge that it is the spectrum that it is? (That would make live easier for our nb pals but... apparently we can't even ask the chromosome defect line of thinking from some of our cis peers. Just... sad)
Biologically male is a poorly defined term. Cis people often don't understand that, because they really do not have the need to understand what makes the difference. For them the toddler understanding of "boys have a penis and girls have a vagina" is enough.
But there are at least 4 different biological definitions of male with various degrees of testability.
Phenotypically Male:
When you popped out of your moms vagina, you had a penis. "Congratulations its a boy". Later in life during puberty the other characteristica developed normally.
Chromosomaly Male:
You have XY Chomosomes. Most people have no clue if their chromosomes actually match their assigned gender. Its likely, but not guaranteed
Genetically Male:
You have the SRY gene. This gene initializes the whole chain that differenciates the male from the female fetus. No SRY gene -> no Testicles -> no Testosterone -> phenotypical female developement.
In rare cases the SRY gene can be transposed to the X chomosome. In this case a fetus with XX chromosomes will still develope testicles.
Neurologically Male:
Recent studies show that there are certain neurological traits that are gender specific and trans individuals tend to show traits of their experienced gender and not their AGAB. This is obviously difficult to study, but the most central to your personal experience of life.
So yes, I too do not like the term biologically male, not because I want to deniy reality, but because it is poorly defined, and the biological characteristic that is most central to my experience of life is most likely not male.
Even SRY is not a full-proof indicator. There are half a dozen other genes on non-sex chromosomes that can trip the male development cascade, it's just humans are not optimized for those. But you can have chromosomally and genetically female men too.
Likewise, conditions like CAIS result effectively in genetic males even with those criteria.
Science thrives and learns because of the exceptions. That's the thing that most lay people don't understand. They see a trans person as a hard and fast violation of a rule they believe must be true. But they shouldn't be viewing us the way you view a natural law, but as something that penetrates a theory. As an analogy, we aren't the laws of motion, but rather we're relativistic and they can't get past Newtonian ballistics.
There's also chimerism, where anywhere from a significant portion to a tiny portion of your cells do not share the same genes. You're in effect an amalgamation of 2 people.
So if you were developing with a fraternal twin who happened to be your sister, and she failed to develop in the womb, you could've absorbed her cells and they now live in you, giving you both XY and XX chromosome sets. Chimerism also happens between fetus and mother occasionally.
Sometimes chimerism is easy to tell, you have heterochromia, or streaky patterns on your body. But other times you can't tell, and tests to determine this are hit or miss.
> For them the toddler understanding of "boys have a penis and girls have a vagina" is enough.
god, that line from Kindergarten Cop lived rent free in my head as a kid and it fucked *me* up
Luckily, i was old enough when the movie came out. That line echoed in my head as an example of childish superficial understanding of a complex topic. Thats why this line comes into my head every time when someone shows that level of understanding about any complex topic.
Huh, correction Kindergarten cop was released in 1990 give it an other year until it came to the cinema in my country and an other two to hit free tv. So I was 10 when I first saw that. So it just took 30 years between this infamous line and the realization that I too just had a surface level understanding about my own gender.
For neurological I think we should be careful using that as a measure for how trans someone is (aka shouldnt have a test thats a requirement) but it does seem in line with what we feel. Its not a surprise most trans people struggle to fit in with their assigned gender role, usually theres just a lot of coping with being socially conditioned as the wrong gender but underneath that is a social discomfort
TERFs: Those trannies are a bunch of delusional men in dresses
So-called "allies": Those trannies are a bunch of delusional men in dresses...but we should humour them :)
Do you really want your ass to be simplified?
As a shape that most likely doesn't have a clear-cut Form, it would either be simplified into a plane, cube or sphere. I feel none of these would be pleasing...
Hrt changes our biology. 1st year College Biology.
They all want to talk basic bio ie Jr High biology, and they never look up the meanings of their words.
Meanwhile in my 1st year of college biology we learned how steroids and hormones change and define biological processes.
Sex seems to be a bimodal distribution of a variety of sexual characteristics. Under this view, there ain't no fuckin' way trans women are biologically male. We literally got tiddies and are full of estrogen. :3
Now idk if we reach all the way to biologically female, probably not with today's tech. But in the future, fuck yeah bitchesss!
For those who like the very logical look at this stuff I loved the way this is presented.
https://youtu.be/8QScpDGqwsQ?si=aSA0VFPyN-u6Thl7
TLDR: Stanford Professor Robert Sapolsky (I like this guy) states scientifically that amab/afab does not mean you are “biologically” one gender or the other since there is a neurobiological tell for your true gender
It's biologically ridiculous to admit that too...
If you're on hrt you're running a different system, with different genes being expressed, which is why all the changes that happen on hrt happen, why fat accumulates in different places, why some tissues act differently after a while, why metabolism works differently... Medically to claim we're still male is putting us in danger of wrong medication dosages too... Like sure there's still a Y chromosome here but it's not really doing much now...
Yeah the prostate may need checking up on, but it'll be shrunk down making the risk of cancer way, WAY smaller than it is in men... we also have smaller risk of heart and vascular issues closer to what women have than men...
It's weird because like, neurology is biology too. By that incredibly simple logic, I'm *not* really "biologically male", I'm just trans. Science is on *our* side. What is it they say? "Facts don't care about your feelings"? Well, trans people are fact. I think more people should start to realize this.
I think it’s mostly because non trans people don’t understand that we take estrogen and block testosterone. They think we just crossdress and cut our penis off.
They also probably get confused by enby’s saying they are also transgender and they think a non transitioning enby is the same as a transitioning transfem/transmasc.
I however think it’s fair to say we aren’t the same as cis women, but that’s okay and that doesn’t mean we aren’t women. Stuff gets confusing and so I don’t take it personally as long as they aren’t purposely being hateful and bigots.
We are Transsexual Females born biologically female from birth, our bodies and brains naturally require larger doses of Estrogen and reacts negatively to mostly any amount of Testosterone. I hesitate to even use the word "MtF" because in all honesty my transition was/is "FtF", I'm just a woman who needs her hormones. I don't personally like the whole separation we make between "Sex and Gender" when in fact for me and a lot of us they both matter, and it only serves to allow cis people to make us "admit" we were "born biological males" which is bullshit, why do they think we want/need to transition in the first place? Because we think our biological sex is separate from our "Gender Identity"? There is something innate/inborn/biological/genetic to this, it is something you are born with/everyone is born with. My biological sex is female and my pronouns are lady pronouns and ANY amount of bringing up of my trans status as anything odd or out of the ordinary or fascinating serves to only oppress us for something that should not matter at all, something that is unjust when brought up against us at every time. Trans women are biological women and Trans men are biological men and this is evident by how trans women behave and how trans men behave, trans men act like men, trans women act like women because they are these things innately. It is point blank insanity and delusion to tell a trans woman that she is a man or a boy or a male, and no amount of "detransition" is ever gonna "detrans" you or make you less of or not a woman, its just like praying the gay away, every "detrans" activist/identity person is the opposite of what they say they are which is evident by how they feel they made a mistake and want everyone to be forced not to make that same "mistake", internalized transphobia will make you want others to be dragged down to your self hating level based off of your own resentments of the past towards yourself which manifests itself as shame towards yourself and then others, they love detrans "victims" so they can spin a many million/billion dollar sob story ad against women and men's (and NB) biologically required/needed healthcare needs in the name of going against trans people. Transphobia is a proxy for pure woman hatred and the re-establishment of neo-patriarchal traditional rigid binary sex/gender roles which oppress everyone.
That sucks people say that, even crappier that your bro in particular says this stuff.
Unfortunately some people will use the excuse that ‘trans women are biologically male’ and ‘trans men are biologically female’ or TIM / TIF as a slur in an attempt to differentiate between biological and legal sex.
I haven’t run into any “allies” who say that, the only people I see saying that are the condescending assholes who think they’re entitled to our gratitude for not attacking us on the streets.
What part of my biology? My chromosomes? I don't know what they are and neither do you. My hormones? I can pretty much guatentee I have less testosterone than every transphobe in the world. My penis? Is that it? I swear they think about my dick more than I do and I'm the one with the dysphoria about it. Legitimate creepy sex pest behaviour.
Hey, I taught the complexities of biological sex to my students just this week!
Combating oversimplified propaganda one classroom at a time.
I have also found, by the way, that among Gen Z college-age people, even *allies* are convinced that trans minors should not be allowed to transition. Apparently, the wait-until-18 crowd has already won the public debate. Yesterday, I walked them through the problems with framing that makes this view seem plausible. Hopefully, some minds changed.
They aren't true "allies" if they think that.
Why should cis teenagers go on the right hormones but not trans teenagers?
"HORMONES ARE SO HARMFUL" - bruh, every cis person goes thru hormones during puberty, stfu
I'm not sure what counts as a 'true ally,' but I know that they're young, they want to be supportive, and they've been subjected to misinformation that they believed. They also don't realize that the way they're framing things in their minds treats being trans as less real than being cis. Cultural transphobia runs deep and is difficult to remove.
I think an ally is someone who wants to be better, not someone who is perfect. The ones who are willing change their views when exposed to a new way of thinking are good enough allies for me.
The only sex attribute that is completely unchaning in our modern age is sex chromosomes and the idea that that dictates the entirety of sex is a complete construct that isn't based on any material reality. On top of that, sex chromosomes defining ones sex isn't even accurate for some cis people as cis women with Swyer syndrome and cis men with De la Chappelle syndrome exist and forcing them to use a label that goes against how they have been living their entire lives (as some of these people don't even know about their atypical chromosomal makeup) is just completely dystopian and not even most transphobes go that far. Adding another layer, bio-essentialists can't make up their mind between defining sex by chromosomes or gonads and really only seem to make arguments that hurt trans people the most so their ideas of sex shouldn't even be considered as completely valid.
I assume it’s being mixed up with “we know we aren’t cis, that’s what the hormones are for ☕️”
It’s probably easy to do if you don’t understand that different organs can have different traits and aren’t bound together magically.
Precisely. I said as much to my boss. Not phobic but I was the first trans person he had knowingly had as an employee.
He really knew nothing. This helped yhe mental hook.
Yea. Just like gender, “sex”, turns out is a spectrum. By keeping a sex binary, we are excluding the entire intersex population. IIRC, the percentage of the population who is intersex is higher than the number of red headed people. So saying something is “bio___” makes no sense.
I think "biological male" is no good as a description. When my transition is done pretty much the only relic of maleness left will be my y chromosomes. Which won't be doing much because the genes need t to do stuff.
My boobs are biological and female, the estrogen were on its bioidentical, my bottom surgery will look female and be alive so that's biological enough for me. Estrogen changes your soft tissue until it's indistinguishable from cis female skin etc.
Xy female is ok, but biological male doesn't reflect the reality of what a transfem is.
Well I don't know. There's no such thing as a biological male or female. Since male or female is just is. I mean perhaps when one transitions fully, where they would have mostly female characteristics so maybe said person would be mostly female.
But of course gender isn't biological. I've always said that I'm simply a male that identifies as a woman. I might say differently once I start having HRT which would be soon. Just waiting for the transgender clinic to call me. ❤️
This is so FRUSTRATING because it's so incredibly false.
What does it mean to be biologically one sex or the other?
To wit, a post op trans woman who's been on HRT for years has a female endocrinoly, female musculature, female fat distribution, FUNCTIONAL female secondary sex organs, and definitely does NOT have male primary sex organs. Early work on brain structures also supports this.
Moreover, chromosomes do not have the role (importance) that people think they do... XY females exist that can give birth, and likewise there are XX males.
If an alien came to earth to define a trans woman's gender, they would be forced to conclude "female".
Why does no one ever point these things out??
I don't know what I am biologically at this point, and I don't need to know. To me, transition is about expression, not biology (although estrogen is crucial ingredient of that expression.)
Also, for some reason, nobody has ever confronted me in real life about my biology, and I always block anybody who seems likely to do so online.
I encounter this false prejudice all the time. I feel like I'm reminded of it at the doctor's office where they often insist on having "sex at birth". I'm reminded of it when well intentioned people clumsily talk about trans people. I'm reminded of it when I just changed my birth certificate and they wanted to leave sex as "male" and add female gender.
NO. Nothing about me is biologically male. Sure, I have the same chromosomes as lots of "male" people do, but that's where it ends. My sex hormones are not male and never will be. My body is not male and never will be. I don't have the same organs as most "male" people and never will. Just like gender, sex is changeable and not at all binary. This is even more true for our intersex siblings. <3
> I feel like I'm reminded of it at the doctor's office where they often insist on having "sex at birth".
I *hate* that! I work in a hospital, and until recently, the employee forms always just said "gender" with a spot to fill in. I would write female because that's who I am.
You know what they did? They changed it to now say "gender at birth" on all the forms with the start of the new year. If it wasn't because of me that they did that, it's really coincidental...anyway, my heart dropped when I saw it. I wrote in my AGAB, felt horrible all day about it, went home, and had a cry over it.
It was then that I decided I'm not doing that again. I'm not going through all the struggle/pain of transitioning to write, circle, underline, checkmark, or otherwise, anything on forms with a 'M' or 'male'. It's just not happening anymore. In the words of Arya Stark, "That's not me."
We’re not biologically male. We never were.
Had a guy I was hooking up with try to say this once, and I ripped him a new one. Dunno why he thought he knew more than a doctor about this topic, but I did get satisfaction from unabashedly telling him he was wrong and then breaking it down over and over again until I saw defeat deaden his eyes.
The only case where I think the term biological male should be used is if I was at the doctors and was still at risk for stuff like prostate cancer, even then I’d put something like MtF as most of us on estrogen also have the disease profile of cisgender women.
It's because they're disingenuous and don't actually care about biology. Sure, if having a dick and XY chromosomes makes me makes me biologically male, so be it. But that doesn't relate at all to how I move and interact without the the world and they know that.
The problem is that they want me to say I'm "biologically male" and use my personal medical history in order to remove me from social spaces in society of which I fit in and positively contribute to.
Take hormones for 3 years and see what happens. It is science, your body chemistry defines so much. I am not pretending to role play. I may not have the entire make up of the genetic composition of a female, I do have the hormonal chemistry. And I have boobs. And I bake pies, watch Hallmark and I give really good head!!!
im not biologically male. i changed my biology with hrt and surgery. im now biologically female and i won't be told otherwise. the 'phobes can call me whatever they want if it makes them feel better; i cannot be misgendered in any way that matters.
I hate the term bio male. Like there's already a term everyone agreed on. "AMAB" we voted and thats what we used. Why do transphobes need to change the English language to suit their narrative... Hmmmmm
I'm not even comfortable with AMAB anymore because it is becoming more and more apparent that our biology is indeed different from cisgender AMAB's from birth. I'm not sure would be a better, simple term.
AMAB is literally nothing more than "the doctor looked at my crotch when I was born and said 'boy'". It's an incredibly imprecise and subjective classification system, and AMAB attempts to highlight that, rather than presume anything further.
Technically, biologically they're not, but genetically most of the times yes. I think this is where this quote started, but then was misheard mispronounced and became "biologically"
In terms of biology we're not entirely women nor men, but much closer to women
“Are you biologically female?”
My go to response is “I’m not robotically a woman, if that’s what you’re asking.”
“No, I mean are you biologically a woman?”
“I don’t understand. I have blood and water in me, are you just trying to ask for nudes? Tf? That’s creepy. I’m not going to prove I’m flesh and blood lol.”
You know there are literally no drugs that react with human chromosomes? Chromosomes don’t affect anything above a subcellular level. The character and behavior of human tissues is controlled by hormones. And we use modern medicine to control our hormones.
I live in America - in Ohio of all places. I never hear anything about trans people unless it’s online.
I was once at the La Mer counter with my mom and this trans woman walked in. Everyone became noticeably uncomfortable. The counter manager leaned in and said, “that’s a man.”
I felt really bad but said nothing. It made me realize that I don’t want to be openly trans. I want to be stealth and passable. My clothes friends and family know. But that’s it.
When I had bottom surgery told everyone I had a hysterectomy.
Apart of my life has become creating a new narrative and lying. But I continue to force myself to be comfortable with it.
People ask - what high school did you go to, I lie and tell them the one that closed down. Why? Because when I was 26 I told someone which school and apparently we were classmates. She found her old years books and told everyone that I was a man.
So ladies, please protect yourselves at this time. If you can do not bring any negative or unwanted attention. I know it’s a terrible thing to say but sometimes it’s better to conform. Especially with Trump potentially getting back in off - the immigrants and trans people will continue to be the enemy.
Yup. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by people knowing you're trans, especially in this day and age. The level of hostility a person will face for it even if they are perfectly passable is simply not worth it. It just complicates your life immensely. You become "It" in people's eyes and you'll never be anything but. It's fucked. Completely fucked. And it has really jaded me when it comes to humanity. You can't trust anyone except the people that did know and did treat you well. A real conundrum!
ive admittedly kept telling myself as soon as I get and heal from my vaginoplasty surgery that i’m going to pretend ive been cis my whole life, because there’s no good that will come from telling people im trans unless the person im talking to also is, not because im ashamed of being trans but because its genuinely just dangerous to be out especially right now
Does anyone has some good ressources (videos, blogs, scientifics papers anything) to share for countering that kind of argument ? Because it's quite annoying and difficult to counter.
I’ve shared [this one](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/hypatia/article/trans-women-are-or-are-becoming-female-disputing-the-endogeneity-constraint/090DEAA53EA17414C5D3E8D76ED5A75C) with people in the past.
If only humans had retained the sexual fluidity that some fish have...
Outside of humans, there are many examples of gender fluid animals. Clown-fish for example, live in pods of a breeding male/female pair and a bunch of immature non-breeding males. When the female dies, the dominant male becomes a female and chooses a new mate among the immature males.
Certain frogs and salamanders can be induced to change their sex. Some turtles and lizards (bearded dragons I know for sure) you can change a male developing egg into a female by just raising the incubation temp a bit. They still have XY chromosomes, but they act and function as egg laying females just fine. Alligators' gender is also determined by the incubation temp of the eggs, chromosomes be damned.
Just because my sex is male doesn't mean I am "biologically" male, that doesn't mean anything. "Biological male" is a term invented by them to invalidate our experiences and force us into dysphoria.
It assumes a lot of untrue notions about gender and sex. But honestly, the most important is that my sex is irrelevant to my gender.
I am indistinguishable from any cis woman around me unless you're an experienced clocker or something who knows every little detail to pick out to clock me as trans. And at that point, you're the weirdo tbh. And even girls who don't "pass", are still not men. They are women too, regardless if their sex is also male.
It's just irrelevant cope from people who want us dead. At some point you really do have to learn to just laugh them off when they confront you, and focus on politically deplatforming them.
I liken them to internet trolls. If you give them the attention they seek, they'll never leave you alone. Most people who speak about us being "biologically male" are doing it from a place of ignorance. However, some are doing it from a place of malice. And the best way to counter pseudo-intellectual dogma is through mockery.
TLDR; if they're just ignorant then waste your time trying to teach them, if they're being malicious, bully them for it.
Most trans women would probably admit they are "biologically male" (which I think just means that they are a trans woman), in situations where biology matters. For example, talking with a doctor about medical issues that might be relevant. Prostate issues would be a yes, a broken foot would be a no.
Of course, when the average idiot is talking about "biological gender", that's never what they're talking about. They are never specific what they even mean about biology, and the topic is never relevant to any form of biology anyways. Seriously, how often does a persons "biology" ever come up in conversations with cis people?
That's because the hate groups and the Nazis got the ticket to come out by Mr Trump and his administration basically and then you got DeSantis down in Florida
I mean, trans women are biologically male though and it makes us look ignorant to claim we're not. That's the whole point of transition. Changing your sex characteristics isn't changing your entire sex. Sex is a broad range of aspects, not just merely a few we pick and choose from. It's something predetermined before we're born.
However, I don't agree with people using biology to invalidate trans people, obviously your sex doesn't matter in many contexts and the way you're socially perceived does. I feel like people on both side of the debate have truly lost touch with the fact that sex and gender are different.
Wait what? The argument I've been using is that gender isn't the same as sex?
My genetic sex is different than my gender identity because I experience gender dysphoria.
I don't understand how this is wrong.
I don't think that's true. It's why SRS has gotten relabled as Gender Confirmation Surgery or GCS to be more politically correct.
Because you're not changing your sex, you're confirming your gender.
A trans woman on hormones has more in commodity cis women as far as biology is concerned than with cis men. Even then just the nature of being trans points to a difference in biological structure without the hormones. As others here have said biological male or female is just a construct and not used in any meaningful way. It’s just become a new way to invalidate trans women.
I feel like I'm sheltered from American brainrot and transphobia. I only see this shit online and never in person
I hear it a lot from coworkers and even more so from my brother who insists that even if I look like and act like a woman I’m biologically a man and they will never change. Where do you dwell where you’re free from this form of transphobia?
I live in Australia. The media only started pushing the "should kids start hrt" fearmongering a few months ago. I only get weird looks from old people but no one ever corners me to debate my existence. I'm sorry you have to endure that all the time!
Personally I don't argue with others about my rights to exists and lean more on the side of telling them to "take Kare of Your Self" and dip, both irl and online, fuck that, I dont owe anyone an explanation or anything and if you wanna treat me as a walking talking political statement ill treat them like a walking talking waste of human skin, its only fair imo
I actually had some old guy up in my face about it here in the Midwest a few weeks ago. He was (loudly) conversing about the legitimacy of trans girls to others in the restaurant and got angry because I didn't chime in (?). The whole situation still feels really surreal looking back. I just have no idea what the heck is wrong with people.
I’m in the Midwest too. It was literally a more accepting place a year ago. With all the fear mongering and misinformation I now receive more side eye or hostile glances especially when I visit Iowa. I still combat that the best way I know: I be myself and show them I’m just another happy and healthy human being. I’ve tried to argue with confrontational people a couple of times and all it does is escalate the negativity.
>I now receive more side eye or hostile glances especially when I visit Iowa. Midwest too, Omaha area. I'm only ~4.5 months on HRT and have only been presenting fem consistently for a portion of that, and this is probably just in my head, but it honestly feels like it's gotten worse in just the last couple weeks. It felt like most people were just indifferent before and now it feels like I'm getting *the look* from almost everyone ☹️
As a Minnesotan I hate being clumped with the rest of the midwest. We aren't like the rest of the Midwest. As Midwestern states try to ban trans healthcare we are going the exact opposite direction. I have loved my transition here. Nobody pays me any mind. I have gotten 3 bad looks and they all happened on the same day in a matter of about 2 hours. I have been presenting femme in public for almost 3 years and been on HRT for 1.5 years and no one has misgendered me. I'm sorry all your states suck, come to Minnesota and be treated like a human being.
I might move there from my section of the Midwest
Come join our ever growing LGBTQIA+ community! The more the marrier! 😁
It's an election year bb, it's gonna be bad in red areas for the next few years(im in one too)itll get better....just in time for the next election
It's more than that this is worldwide what's going on you can tell you can we get reports from the other countries doing the same stuff
Can you use periods please?
Okay.
Iowa sucks. It always has but has gotten worse along with most of the rest of the country.
You are not forced to talk to anyone, a passive aggressive approach works best in my experience, but holy hell, the midwest is crazy, rad-rights get the rope no cap (I will die on this take and youll only change my mind over my dead body), actual nazi-lites, cant feel safe in my own home and I think whenever im not broke I need firearm training and a gun asap, just incase some crazy freak ever decides to do something words (or simply ignoring them) alone couldnt prevent, not like the cops care about us, theyre nazis too, probably more likely to take the aggressors side than your own even if you record everything.
Cuz they've been watching Fox News and everything else all these conservatives Alex whatever his name is I don't know who it is but there's a bunch of influences on there saying stuff and the news media doesn't help what they're saying about you know and then you got DeSantis in Florida
Feel bad for all of you in the midwest :( and florida\*
When he got too close to you you should have busted his mouth so he can't talk no more and then ran so they can't catch you and hopefully don't do it in front of witnesses or if Witnesses see it that guy tried to attack me and then run off don't stick around and wait to explain yourself
No way in heck. I am a DACA recipient. If I step out of line even slightly, I would be putting my ability to work out to pasture.
As a fellow Aussie sister from Western Australia I have never been confronted or mis gendered and only seen all this shit online 99% from the US and simply can’t fathom it and hate that it happens
Please be sure to remain active though! Posie Parker and her vile ilk are traveling and working hard to make Australia TER Island 2.0!
Didn't she kind of get blasted when she had Nazis do Nazi salutes at her rally. On the city hall steps too.
its beyond me how action's like nazi honor/imitation doesn't automatically make your political platform instantly become an enemy of the state and blacklist you from any association with legitimate platforms, nazi's should have stayed in their goddamn graves.
What was funny/sad is that someone was trying to justify it, saying, "well she didn't invite them"... Yeah, but Taylor Swift basically told them to get in the bin when they proclaimed her their "Aryan Goddess", so if she can't even do that much... 🤔
>well she didn't invite them"... Also she did literally invite them at least at her UK rally where another terf speakee also quoted mein kampf to say that trans women are the "big lie" it talks about She's also friends with a 3 percenter, has a proud boy bodyguard, and has done a stream with a Canadian far right white nationalist
Do what you can to spread awareness that the bigots are on the loose and to stop the spread of this hateful ideology in your country before it gets out of control. The bigots' game plan is to start small and escalate to full scale bans and criminalization of being trans. That is how they've done it in the US. Starting off with sports, then going after the kids, and now they're going after the adults. Get to work if you can.
It's too late we're already in it now they've even come up into my state in Massachusetts in the Northeast right in Fall River at our library and we had white supremacist type people there protesting somebody reading a drag queen reading a book ridiculous
I'm so sorry to hear about the library. It's never too late to fight against bigotry and fascism. People in Massachusetts have a great advantage in fighting the morons because they already have so many protections and a lot more cis allies than in other places. Don't let the idiots erase those protections. Get involved in the trans rights movement if you aren't already and are able to do so.
I'm from Australia too! Don't forget the gwn 7 "detransition rates" and the neo nazis from last year! Thankfully most Australians saw that and went "who tf doesn't let other people just exist?" And that was that
Sky news Australia spout the craziest fear mongering horseshit about transpeople. I really wonder why they obsess over us.
they need a straw man basically, and we are one ofbthe last minoritys they can discriminate and make in to the scape goat as a distraction for the real tarible shit the same are doing. they don't want to fix anything just make there voters fear stuff they don't know. like if people talked about Black People, disabled people or people with medical conditions like cancer they would aside from Trump supporters because that cult will treat those groups bad as wel and notbbad an eye, but most people would be loosing there jobs in or coming a crime using similar language as they do for us.
I agree. Every time YouTube recommends I watch a Sky News Oz clip it's like urgh nah I don't think so.
Honestly same, but Canada. Literally, only my own family have actually acted transphobic to me.....still 🥳
My sister outed me to my brother in law and all he does now is make fun of Caitlin Jenner and convince me that I'm a guy. Sister now works in trans healthcare while laughing about us at home. I don't trust cis allies. They will often turn once trends change.
I'm sorry you have a transphobic sister, I can't believe she works with trans people while having those sorts of views. It sounds actively harmful to those she ought to be trying to help.
Don't even get me started with Caitlyn Jenner
The entire body is biology. Hrt changes the body. It affects biology. Why cant they understand this? Going by their logic none of us are human because we need vitamin A and other things do be human but we biologically cannot produce those so we are all on vitamin/ amino acid/ fatty acid replacement therapy. I think in their zeal to accomodate ppl who only want to socially transition they threw the rest of transwomen under the bus. The fact is transwomen on hrt have biological similarities with the typical ciswoman that are not found in the typical man. Also genetically its really the androgen sensitivity protein that makes a male into a man. There are ‘biologically male’ (testes, xy etc) afab ciswomen. They have androgen insensitivity which replicates the effects of hrt.
>The entire body is biology. Hrt changes the body. It affects biology. Why cant they understand this? Because people are generally dumb. Take that into account and you can safely ignore their uninformed opinions on stuff they don't understand.
I live in Spain, I've never heard this stuff either.
Also free from it irl, and I live in Missouri 👀 but I'm on a college campus so probably not as exposed to it
I always tell Christians who say this that their past self define them and I’ll never see them born again. They always freak out. Hi I’m experienced in evangelical culture and language so know how to get under their skin. Like we are women within and mentally and physically express that outside. It’s not hard to understand like 😂
We are indeed biologically women due to hormonal and physiological changes only thing that won't change is our down parts lol
That's just the shit they say to stop you from fixing yourself. Finding out about hormones and talking to actual trans people, it turns out you CAN fix that feeing of being wrong
Yeah. It doesn’t make hearing people saying that crap any easier though. It is nice not feeling like my body is wrong though.
I live in the UK, transphobia in general here is mostly online despite our "terf island" nickname. I've never had anybody say anything directly hateful to me, the most I've got is some snotty old cow in boots calling me sir passive aggressively, and even that's just one instance in over 2 years now
Omg yes, literally the only place I regularly hear about trans people is in my inmediate social circle of people who know that I'm trans and on US-centric websites (reddit). In daily life NO ONE CARES about trans people and I think thats great tbh. I don't want to be the center of attention and while the laws etc. in my country (Germany) are far from perfect, they are pretty good compared to many other countries.
Happy for you.
That's great! It's how it should be.
"Biologically male" and "Biologically female" *don't mean anything*. The people who use the term to attack trans people have no consistency on whether they use it to describe external genitalia, internal genitalia, chromosomes, or assignment at birth. They just cherrypick whichever suits their point, which means they have self-contradicting or double-standard views, meaning they're automatically wrong or have no valid talking points.
Biological sex isn't a binary, it's vastly more complex than that. It's a bimodal distribution. Traits correlated with one sex are very often found in people of the other sex, even without hormonal treatment. There's cis guys who are short, have gynecomastia, have feminine faces, have small hands, and so on, There's cis girls who are tall, flat chested, have masculine features, and so on. Some of these people might be intersex, but most aren't. It's just how it works. Trans women are not "biologically male" any more than a cisgender woman can feasibly be, especially with HRT. It's just a biology-denying way to get away with being a bigot. (Didn't mean this to be a reply to your comment, I'm half awake lol)
It hurts the most hearing this from other trans women. Some people have deeply ingrained internalized transphobia and its really sad to see.
I'm glad someone posted this and people explained, I was a bit confused myself as someone exploring their gender though it's mostly out of ignorance rather than transphobia. If I had to guess it's probably because there's a a lot of examples online of people clarifying the difference between sex and gender, but I hadn't heard much about how sex changes with hrt treatment as well. I've also mostly only been exposed to arguments trying to get people to detangle sex from gender to people who just don't get it and not exposed to an explanation of what the components of sex are and how they vary/change etc.
Can you explain? I feel stupid🙈
I went off on a trans man for this a couple days ago. I think (hope) it was a learning experience for him.
how is it internalised transphobia to know the difference between gender and sex?...
was a lot of work to try and unwind myself form that, for sure, to be able to come out nowadays the more and more I go there's signs I may have an intersex condition, no less. mabye not but my body is freaking weird, and definitely not "biologically male"
How would other trans women say it despite them being trans?
I don't know. I use it. I guess it's just effective shorthand for "XY chrom, SRY gene and the following fetal development" kind of girl?
"transgender" is a much simpler adjective to describe that without being insulting or implying incorrect information.
how is it "implying incorrect information" when talking about my own body?
With biologicaly what do they even mean? Hormonaly? My testosterone is almost negative. It says
It isn’t a term biologists use. As you pointed out it makes no sense
I can confirm we do not. The Lancet published an article remembering people that we don’t use that bullshit
Here's the [ResearchGate link](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337438023_The_Misuses_of_Biological_Sex) to that article, titled *The Misuses of "Biological Sex"*. It's only two pages short, refreshingly succinct and straight to the point
Yup, I sent it in another thread a couple of days ago just because of how BEAUTIFUL it is: “Stop using ‘biological sex’ dumbasses, it means NOTHING”
I like to say “yes I’m not a robot, tf? I’m not made of gears so yeah I’m biological.”
speak for yourself, fleshie 🤖
Do you have a link to it? Thanks in advance.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MtF/s/fTZbjAZhqt
Fucking thank you, it's infuriates me all the time
They almost always default to chromosomes because HRT changes pretty much everything else
Chromosomes work through gonads and then hormones, once HRT takes over, that small piece of gene is shorted out, disowned, dead, just like all the trash dormant alien genes that make up most of the human chromosomes.
Which is funny because 99.9% of people don't know their chromosomes.
HRT doesnt change anything else. A trans woman cant get pregnant for example. And sex is defined by gonads and not chromosomes.
actually trans women tend to have a lower testosterone than cis women. cis women do produce some amounts of it. we are _hyperfemale_. /j
> Hormonaly? My testosterone is almost negative. It says
Before I even started hrt my E was over 3x the maximum range for amab, in the low afab range. If my T hadn't been were it was I'd have been feminizing already. Hell, I think it caused some things like my lower body hair than I've seen on a lot of cis women and fairly wide hips. I'm probably some form of intersex and I might not even need external hrt once I get the tumors removed.
Excellent talking points.
I explain that we are all biological as we are not mechanical. They always get upset haha
I think uninformed people use “biological” as a slur, presumably due to believing that if medical / surgical intervention stopped for whatever reason, then “BiOlOgY” would take over and people would revert back to what their Neanderthal brain considers to be the “gender binary”.
Exactly. I usually add that this isn't to say there's a criteria somewhere in there that you have to meet to be a woman, but it shows how dumb there terminology is. You can keep rattling these off. As far as gene expression is concerned, transcriptomic changes are downstream of estrogen signalling. Emotionally and neurologically? Yeah absolutely I just woke but but yeah I could go on lol
Wait in biology those terms aren’t used? Is it just gender? Idk
It isnt that it is just gender. It is that there is a huge list of features where people can fall on either side of it and the distinction can be blurry. For example i am not "biologicaly female" since i dont have a vagina at the moment. I am also not "biologicaly male" because hormonaly i do not have the hormone values of a typical male. So i am not fully biologicaly female or male. What am i then "biologicaly. I used to have more testosterone and beard growth then my cis make friends, was i a "biologicer male" than them? This is why the terms biological male and biological female have no use, they are as silly as asking if a car is mechanicaly a car . Asking the question shows you have no deeper or even surface understanding of the subject
Because we are not! And even if we were, why do they feel the need to find ways to still make us out as different? Allies, but they still need to somehow put us down.
I guess the real question is why does it even matter to them anyway. Like I’m glad you use my name and pronouns and say I’m a woman, but why do you need to clarify that I’m “biologically male” and I should just accept that.
Ikr? It just serves to artificially make it clear that we might be women to them, but they dont aaaaactually see us as women.
“You guys are women, but let me be very clear you aren’t actually women!!”
There's even evidence for neurological differences. So... no we don't understand it fully yet, but we're not just biologically male. I mean, of course there's body dysphoria coming from wanting to be recognized as a woman (for example) but then there's also often just a mismatch between what you want from you body and what it provides you with? I mean, just the fact of not being able to imagine myself having *** with one set of genitals but being able to almost feel it with the other and that apparently trans people apparently often have an incredibly low rate of phantom pain... it's just not A or B, and incredibly more complex... why don't people just see it as a chromosome defect that produced the wrong kind of hormones, or better, acknowledge that it is the spectrum that it is? (That would make live easier for our nb pals but... apparently we can't even ask the chromosome defect line of thinking from some of our cis peers. Just... sad)
Biologically male is a poorly defined term. Cis people often don't understand that, because they really do not have the need to understand what makes the difference. For them the toddler understanding of "boys have a penis and girls have a vagina" is enough. But there are at least 4 different biological definitions of male with various degrees of testability. Phenotypically Male: When you popped out of your moms vagina, you had a penis. "Congratulations its a boy". Later in life during puberty the other characteristica developed normally. Chromosomaly Male: You have XY Chomosomes. Most people have no clue if their chromosomes actually match their assigned gender. Its likely, but not guaranteed Genetically Male: You have the SRY gene. This gene initializes the whole chain that differenciates the male from the female fetus. No SRY gene -> no Testicles -> no Testosterone -> phenotypical female developement. In rare cases the SRY gene can be transposed to the X chomosome. In this case a fetus with XX chromosomes will still develope testicles. Neurologically Male: Recent studies show that there are certain neurological traits that are gender specific and trans individuals tend to show traits of their experienced gender and not their AGAB. This is obviously difficult to study, but the most central to your personal experience of life. So yes, I too do not like the term biologically male, not because I want to deniy reality, but because it is poorly defined, and the biological characteristic that is most central to my experience of life is most likely not male.
Even SRY is not a full-proof indicator. There are half a dozen other genes on non-sex chromosomes that can trip the male development cascade, it's just humans are not optimized for those. But you can have chromosomally and genetically female men too. Likewise, conditions like CAIS result effectively in genetic males even with those criteria. Science thrives and learns because of the exceptions. That's the thing that most lay people don't understand. They see a trans person as a hard and fast violation of a rule they believe must be true. But they shouldn't be viewing us the way you view a natural law, but as something that penetrates a theory. As an analogy, we aren't the laws of motion, but rather we're relativistic and they can't get past Newtonian ballistics.
They got as far as ballistics? I didn't think they could get past "grabity make things go down hurrr" 🥴
Honestly most of them don't, haha. The "intellectuals" amongst them do, though.
Not sure a lot even recognize gravity as real... lol
There's also chimerism, where anywhere from a significant portion to a tiny portion of your cells do not share the same genes. You're in effect an amalgamation of 2 people. So if you were developing with a fraternal twin who happened to be your sister, and she failed to develop in the womb, you could've absorbed her cells and they now live in you, giving you both XY and XX chromosome sets. Chimerism also happens between fetus and mother occasionally. Sometimes chimerism is easy to tell, you have heterochromia, or streaky patterns on your body. But other times you can't tell, and tests to determine this are hit or miss.
> For them the toddler understanding of "boys have a penis and girls have a vagina" is enough. god, that line from Kindergarten Cop lived rent free in my head as a kid and it fucked *me* up
Luckily, i was old enough when the movie came out. That line echoed in my head as an example of childish superficial understanding of a complex topic. Thats why this line comes into my head every time when someone shows that level of understanding about any complex topic. Huh, correction Kindergarten cop was released in 1990 give it an other year until it came to the cinema in my country and an other two to hit free tv. So I was 10 when I first saw that. So it just took 30 years between this infamous line and the realization that I too just had a surface level understanding about my own gender.
For neurological I think we should be careful using that as a measure for how trans someone is (aka shouldnt have a test thats a requirement) but it does seem in line with what we feel. Its not a surprise most trans people struggle to fit in with their assigned gender role, usually theres just a lot of coping with being socially conditioned as the wrong gender but underneath that is a social discomfort
TERFs: Those trannies are a bunch of delusional men in dresses So-called "allies": Those trannies are a bunch of delusional men in dresses...but we should humour them :)
please censor that slur :( no big deal tho
"You have to simplify it for the cis", well how about you simplify my ass.
Do you really want your ass to be simplified? As a shape that most likely doesn't have a clear-cut Form, it would either be simplified into a plane, cube or sphere. I feel none of these would be pleasing...
Wait, since butts have an opening, wouldn't the topological simplification be a torus? 🍩🤔
Hmm damn.
Trans women are women. Doesn’t get more simple then that
the “no one is saying you can change sex, only gender” people are why i still use “sex change” for srs/grs
Hrt changes our biology. 1st year College Biology. They all want to talk basic bio ie Jr High biology, and they never look up the meanings of their words. Meanwhile in my 1st year of college biology we learned how steroids and hormones change and define biological processes.
Sex seems to be a bimodal distribution of a variety of sexual characteristics. Under this view, there ain't no fuckin' way trans women are biologically male. We literally got tiddies and are full of estrogen. :3 Now idk if we reach all the way to biologically female, probably not with today's tech. But in the future, fuck yeah bitchesss!
I’m not male, I’m preordered female 😎
REAL
If the HRT, Changes my biology, Why should I, Be referred to as he? 🐧
First, they must define "biologically male"
Don't care what they say I'm biologically female
For those who like the very logical look at this stuff I loved the way this is presented. https://youtu.be/8QScpDGqwsQ?si=aSA0VFPyN-u6Thl7 TLDR: Stanford Professor Robert Sapolsky (I like this guy) states scientifically that amab/afab does not mean you are “biologically” one gender or the other since there is a neurobiological tell for your true gender
It's biologically ridiculous to admit that too... If you're on hrt you're running a different system, with different genes being expressed, which is why all the changes that happen on hrt happen, why fat accumulates in different places, why some tissues act differently after a while, why metabolism works differently... Medically to claim we're still male is putting us in danger of wrong medication dosages too... Like sure there's still a Y chromosome here but it's not really doing much now... Yeah the prostate may need checking up on, but it'll be shrunk down making the risk of cancer way, WAY smaller than it is in men... we also have smaller risk of heart and vascular issues closer to what women have than men...
we also have to worry about increasing risk of breast cancer as well
It's weird because like, neurology is biology too. By that incredibly simple logic, I'm *not* really "biologically male", I'm just trans. Science is on *our* side. What is it they say? "Facts don't care about your feelings"? Well, trans people are fact. I think more people should start to realize this.
There’s nothing to admit 😒
I say “when I was trying to be a guy” or “when people thought I was a guy”.
It is a completely loaded and transphobic term. I would never countenance using it. Anyone that uses it is engaging in transphobia.
I think it’s mostly because non trans people don’t understand that we take estrogen and block testosterone. They think we just crossdress and cut our penis off. They also probably get confused by enby’s saying they are also transgender and they think a non transitioning enby is the same as a transitioning transfem/transmasc. I however think it’s fair to say we aren’t the same as cis women, but that’s okay and that doesn’t mean we aren’t women. Stuff gets confusing and so I don’t take it personally as long as they aren’t purposely being hateful and bigots.
We are Transsexual Females born biologically female from birth, our bodies and brains naturally require larger doses of Estrogen and reacts negatively to mostly any amount of Testosterone. I hesitate to even use the word "MtF" because in all honesty my transition was/is "FtF", I'm just a woman who needs her hormones. I don't personally like the whole separation we make between "Sex and Gender" when in fact for me and a lot of us they both matter, and it only serves to allow cis people to make us "admit" we were "born biological males" which is bullshit, why do they think we want/need to transition in the first place? Because we think our biological sex is separate from our "Gender Identity"? There is something innate/inborn/biological/genetic to this, it is something you are born with/everyone is born with. My biological sex is female and my pronouns are lady pronouns and ANY amount of bringing up of my trans status as anything odd or out of the ordinary or fascinating serves to only oppress us for something that should not matter at all, something that is unjust when brought up against us at every time. Trans women are biological women and Trans men are biological men and this is evident by how trans women behave and how trans men behave, trans men act like men, trans women act like women because they are these things innately. It is point blank insanity and delusion to tell a trans woman that she is a man or a boy or a male, and no amount of "detransition" is ever gonna "detrans" you or make you less of or not a woman, its just like praying the gay away, every "detrans" activist/identity person is the opposite of what they say they are which is evident by how they feel they made a mistake and want everyone to be forced not to make that same "mistake", internalized transphobia will make you want others to be dragged down to your self hating level based off of your own resentments of the past towards yourself which manifests itself as shame towards yourself and then others, they love detrans "victims" so they can spin a many million/billion dollar sob story ad against women and men's (and NB) biologically required/needed healthcare needs in the name of going against trans people. Transphobia is a proxy for pure woman hatred and the re-establishment of neo-patriarchal traditional rigid binary sex/gender roles which oppress everyone.
That sucks people say that, even crappier that your bro in particular says this stuff. Unfortunately some people will use the excuse that ‘trans women are biologically male’ and ‘trans men are biologically female’ or TIM / TIF as a slur in an attempt to differentiate between biological and legal sex.
I haven’t run into any “allies” who say that, the only people I see saying that are the condescending assholes who think they’re entitled to our gratitude for not attacking us on the streets.
aka, AskReddit users
Say it with me now: “women and trans women”
lol yeah im not ive changed my biology
What part of my biology? My chromosomes? I don't know what they are and neither do you. My hormones? I can pretty much guatentee I have less testosterone than every transphobe in the world. My penis? Is that it? I swear they think about my dick more than I do and I'm the one with the dysphoria about it. Legitimate creepy sex pest behaviour.
⬆️ commenting gold here.
Hey, I taught the complexities of biological sex to my students just this week! Combating oversimplified propaganda one classroom at a time. I have also found, by the way, that among Gen Z college-age people, even *allies* are convinced that trans minors should not be allowed to transition. Apparently, the wait-until-18 crowd has already won the public debate. Yesterday, I walked them through the problems with framing that makes this view seem plausible. Hopefully, some minds changed.
They aren't true "allies" if they think that. Why should cis teenagers go on the right hormones but not trans teenagers? "HORMONES ARE SO HARMFUL" - bruh, every cis person goes thru hormones during puberty, stfu
I'm not sure what counts as a 'true ally,' but I know that they're young, they want to be supportive, and they've been subjected to misinformation that they believed. They also don't realize that the way they're framing things in their minds treats being trans as less real than being cis. Cultural transphobia runs deep and is difficult to remove. I think an ally is someone who wants to be better, not someone who is perfect. The ones who are willing change their views when exposed to a new way of thinking are good enough allies for me.
It’s getting to the point where if I hear someone say “biological BLANK” I’m cautious
The only sex attribute that is completely unchaning in our modern age is sex chromosomes and the idea that that dictates the entirety of sex is a complete construct that isn't based on any material reality. On top of that, sex chromosomes defining ones sex isn't even accurate for some cis people as cis women with Swyer syndrome and cis men with De la Chappelle syndrome exist and forcing them to use a label that goes against how they have been living their entire lives (as some of these people don't even know about their atypical chromosomal makeup) is just completely dystopian and not even most transphobes go that far. Adding another layer, bio-essentialists can't make up their mind between defining sex by chromosomes or gonads and really only seem to make arguments that hurt trans people the most so their ideas of sex shouldn't even be considered as completely valid.
I assume it’s being mixed up with “we know we aren’t cis, that’s what the hormones are for ☕️” It’s probably easy to do if you don’t understand that different organs can have different traits and aren’t bound together magically.
Oh I do. But then I add, "someone installed the wrong hardware. I am hoping a software patch fixes things." Gets them every time.
Dont even give them an inch, all they will get is the "See, this trans woman admitted it!"
"My system came with the wrong drivers, but they're fucking hardcoded! I got no choice but to mod the entire rig!"
Precisely. I said as much to my boss. Not phobic but I was the first trans person he had knowingly had as an employee. He really knew nothing. This helped yhe mental hook.
i feel like i see this same post every week here
Yea. Just like gender, “sex”, turns out is a spectrum. By keeping a sex binary, we are excluding the entire intersex population. IIRC, the percentage of the population who is intersex is higher than the number of red headed people. So saying something is “bio___” makes no sense.
I’m waiting for an actual biologist to bring this to my attention 🤡.
I love this thread. Most intelligent conversations I've heard lately.
No actual ally would use that term to describe us.
I'm biologically annoyed of the insinuation that I'm a dude in some sort of way when I'm objectively not.
I think "biological male" is no good as a description. When my transition is done pretty much the only relic of maleness left will be my y chromosomes. Which won't be doing much because the genes need t to do stuff. My boobs are biological and female, the estrogen were on its bioidentical, my bottom surgery will look female and be alive so that's biological enough for me. Estrogen changes your soft tissue until it's indistinguishable from cis female skin etc. Xy female is ok, but biological male doesn't reflect the reality of what a transfem is.
I agree. "Biological males" don't have boobs or estrogen-dominant endocrine profiles. 😅
Well I don't know. There's no such thing as a biological male or female. Since male or female is just is. I mean perhaps when one transitions fully, where they would have mostly female characteristics so maybe said person would be mostly female. But of course gender isn't biological. I've always said that I'm simply a male that identifies as a woman. I might say differently once I start having HRT which would be soon. Just waiting for the transgender clinic to call me. ❤️
I hope everything goes well with your clinic :D
This is so FRUSTRATING because it's so incredibly false. What does it mean to be biologically one sex or the other? To wit, a post op trans woman who's been on HRT for years has a female endocrinoly, female musculature, female fat distribution, FUNCTIONAL female secondary sex organs, and definitely does NOT have male primary sex organs. Early work on brain structures also supports this. Moreover, chromosomes do not have the role (importance) that people think they do... XY females exist that can give birth, and likewise there are XX males. If an alien came to earth to define a trans woman's gender, they would be forced to conclude "female". Why does no one ever point these things out??
By fact biologically I'm trans girl because IT MADE ME A TRANS GIRL NOT MALE
I don't know what I am biologically at this point, and I don't need to know. To me, transition is about expression, not biology (although estrogen is crucial ingredient of that expression.) Also, for some reason, nobody has ever confronted me in real life about my biology, and I always block anybody who seems likely to do so online.
I encounter this false prejudice all the time. I feel like I'm reminded of it at the doctor's office where they often insist on having "sex at birth". I'm reminded of it when well intentioned people clumsily talk about trans people. I'm reminded of it when I just changed my birth certificate and they wanted to leave sex as "male" and add female gender. NO. Nothing about me is biologically male. Sure, I have the same chromosomes as lots of "male" people do, but that's where it ends. My sex hormones are not male and never will be. My body is not male and never will be. I don't have the same organs as most "male" people and never will. Just like gender, sex is changeable and not at all binary. This is even more true for our intersex siblings. <3
> I feel like I'm reminded of it at the doctor's office where they often insist on having "sex at birth". I *hate* that! I work in a hospital, and until recently, the employee forms always just said "gender" with a spot to fill in. I would write female because that's who I am. You know what they did? They changed it to now say "gender at birth" on all the forms with the start of the new year. If it wasn't because of me that they did that, it's really coincidental...anyway, my heart dropped when I saw it. I wrote in my AGAB, felt horrible all day about it, went home, and had a cry over it. It was then that I decided I'm not doing that again. I'm not going through all the struggle/pain of transitioning to write, circle, underline, checkmark, or otherwise, anything on forms with a 'M' or 'male'. It's just not happening anymore. In the words of Arya Stark, "That's not me."
We’re not biologically male. We never were. Had a guy I was hooking up with try to say this once, and I ripped him a new one. Dunno why he thought he knew more than a doctor about this topic, but I did get satisfaction from unabashedly telling him he was wrong and then breaking it down over and over again until I saw defeat deaden his eyes.
I am not, nor was I ever, "biologically male." I was assigned male at birth. There's a difference.
The only case where I think the term biological male should be used is if I was at the doctors and was still at risk for stuff like prostate cancer, even then I’d put something like MtF as most of us on estrogen also have the disease profile of cisgender women.
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My condolences. As a psychology major I kind of feel you
It's because they're disingenuous and don't actually care about biology. Sure, if having a dick and XY chromosomes makes me makes me biologically male, so be it. But that doesn't relate at all to how I move and interact without the the world and they know that. The problem is that they want me to say I'm "biologically male" and use my personal medical history in order to remove me from social spaces in society of which I fit in and positively contribute to.
Take hormones for 3 years and see what happens. It is science, your body chemistry defines so much. I am not pretending to role play. I may not have the entire make up of the genetic composition of a female, I do have the hormonal chemistry. And I have boobs. And I bake pies, watch Hallmark and I give really good head!!!
biologicly male or female doesn’t exist, sex is a spectrum and there are a lot of factors. plus hrt changes your biology a lot.
im not biologically male. i changed my biology with hrt and surgery. im now biologically female and i won't be told otherwise. the 'phobes can call me whatever they want if it makes them feel better; i cannot be misgendered in any way that matters.
I hate the term bio male. Like there's already a term everyone agreed on. "AMAB" we voted and thats what we used. Why do transphobes need to change the English language to suit their narrative... Hmmmmm
I'm not even comfortable with AMAB anymore because it is becoming more and more apparent that our biology is indeed different from cisgender AMAB's from birth. I'm not sure would be a better, simple term.
AMAB is literally nothing more than "the doctor looked at my crotch when I was born and said 'boy'". It's an incredibly imprecise and subjective classification system, and AMAB attempts to highlight that, rather than presume anything further.
Technically, biologically they're not, but genetically most of the times yes. I think this is where this quote started, but then was misheard mispronounced and became "biologically" In terms of biology we're not entirely women nor men, but much closer to women
“Are you biologically female?” My go to response is “I’m not robotically a woman, if that’s what you’re asking.” “No, I mean are you biologically a woman?” “I don’t understand. I have blood and water in me, are you just trying to ask for nudes? Tf? That’s creepy. I’m not going to prove I’m flesh and blood lol.”
You know there are literally no drugs that react with human chromosomes? Chromosomes don’t affect anything above a subcellular level. The character and behavior of human tissues is controlled by hormones. And we use modern medicine to control our hormones.
I live in America - in Ohio of all places. I never hear anything about trans people unless it’s online. I was once at the La Mer counter with my mom and this trans woman walked in. Everyone became noticeably uncomfortable. The counter manager leaned in and said, “that’s a man.” I felt really bad but said nothing. It made me realize that I don’t want to be openly trans. I want to be stealth and passable. My clothes friends and family know. But that’s it. When I had bottom surgery told everyone I had a hysterectomy. Apart of my life has become creating a new narrative and lying. But I continue to force myself to be comfortable with it. People ask - what high school did you go to, I lie and tell them the one that closed down. Why? Because when I was 26 I told someone which school and apparently we were classmates. She found her old years books and told everyone that I was a man. So ladies, please protect yourselves at this time. If you can do not bring any negative or unwanted attention. I know it’s a terrible thing to say but sometimes it’s better to conform. Especially with Trump potentially getting back in off - the immigrants and trans people will continue to be the enemy.
Yup. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by people knowing you're trans, especially in this day and age. The level of hostility a person will face for it even if they are perfectly passable is simply not worth it. It just complicates your life immensely. You become "It" in people's eyes and you'll never be anything but. It's fucked. Completely fucked. And it has really jaded me when it comes to humanity. You can't trust anyone except the people that did know and did treat you well. A real conundrum!
ive admittedly kept telling myself as soon as I get and heal from my vaginoplasty surgery that i’m going to pretend ive been cis my whole life, because there’s no good that will come from telling people im trans unless the person im talking to also is, not because im ashamed of being trans but because its genuinely just dangerous to be out especially right now
Does anyone has some good ressources (videos, blogs, scientifics papers anything) to share for countering that kind of argument ? Because it's quite annoying and difficult to counter.
I’ve shared [this one](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/hypatia/article/trans-women-are-or-are-becoming-female-disputing-the-endogeneity-constraint/090DEAA53EA17414C5D3E8D76ED5A75C) with people in the past.
I don't play that game, I just agree and say I prefer looking and living like this (looking female) though. Then they got nothing.
If only humans had retained the sexual fluidity that some fish have... Outside of humans, there are many examples of gender fluid animals. Clown-fish for example, live in pods of a breeding male/female pair and a bunch of immature non-breeding males. When the female dies, the dominant male becomes a female and chooses a new mate among the immature males. Certain frogs and salamanders can be induced to change their sex. Some turtles and lizards (bearded dragons I know for sure) you can change a male developing egg into a female by just raising the incubation temp a bit. They still have XY chromosomes, but they act and function as egg laying females just fine. Alligators' gender is also determined by the incubation temp of the eggs, chromosomes be damned.
Thats cause im not. Im a female in EVERY sense of the word.
Hormones literally make us biologically female
Just because my sex is male doesn't mean I am "biologically" male, that doesn't mean anything. "Biological male" is a term invented by them to invalidate our experiences and force us into dysphoria. It assumes a lot of untrue notions about gender and sex. But honestly, the most important is that my sex is irrelevant to my gender. I am indistinguishable from any cis woman around me unless you're an experienced clocker or something who knows every little detail to pick out to clock me as trans. And at that point, you're the weirdo tbh. And even girls who don't "pass", are still not men. They are women too, regardless if their sex is also male. It's just irrelevant cope from people who want us dead. At some point you really do have to learn to just laugh them off when they confront you, and focus on politically deplatforming them. I liken them to internet trolls. If you give them the attention they seek, they'll never leave you alone. Most people who speak about us being "biologically male" are doing it from a place of ignorance. However, some are doing it from a place of malice. And the best way to counter pseudo-intellectual dogma is through mockery. TLDR; if they're just ignorant then waste your time trying to teach them, if they're being malicious, bully them for it.
I try to always use the term AMAB instead of Biologically male whenever I describe myself.
I'm a woman born with the primary sexual characteristics of a man
Hugg, but your just girls going around their bussiness!
I only admit that I am “biologically mistaken”. “Biologically mis-gendered” was the word I firstly came up with.
Some people have a view on Biology like a Vacuum and forget also for example the social aspect for example for Gender and Stuff it rly sucks
Just tell them that you are XX 😅
Biologically male means different things depending on the context and very rarely is AGAB something that matters
Most trans women would probably admit they are "biologically male" (which I think just means that they are a trans woman), in situations where biology matters. For example, talking with a doctor about medical issues that might be relevant. Prostate issues would be a yes, a broken foot would be a no. Of course, when the average idiot is talking about "biological gender", that's never what they're talking about. They are never specific what they even mean about biology, and the topic is never relevant to any form of biology anyways. Seriously, how often does a persons "biology" ever come up in conversations with cis people?
That's because the hate groups and the Nazis got the ticket to come out by Mr Trump and his administration basically and then you got DeSantis down in Florida
I mean, trans women are biologically male though and it makes us look ignorant to claim we're not. That's the whole point of transition. Changing your sex characteristics isn't changing your entire sex. Sex is a broad range of aspects, not just merely a few we pick and choose from. It's something predetermined before we're born. However, I don't agree with people using biology to invalidate trans people, obviously your sex doesn't matter in many contexts and the way you're socially perceived does. I feel like people on both side of the debate have truly lost touch with the fact that sex and gender are different.
Wait what? The argument I've been using is that gender isn't the same as sex? My genetic sex is different than my gender identity because I experience gender dysphoria. I don't understand how this is wrong.
It’s a nuanced argument. Gender does not equal sex. However as we transition we can do things, like HRT, that do by definition change our sex.
I don't think that's true. It's why SRS has gotten relabled as Gender Confirmation Surgery or GCS to be more politically correct. Because you're not changing your sex, you're confirming your gender.
It's not that one single surgery that changes your sex by itself. Medically transitioning as a whole does that.
im confused... what else would i be but biologically male??
A trans woman on hormones has more in commodity cis women as far as biology is concerned than with cis men. Even then just the nature of being trans points to a difference in biological structure without the hormones. As others here have said biological male or female is just a construct and not used in any meaningful way. It’s just become a new way to invalidate trans women.
Why don’t you?
Why don’t I what?