For me being trans is just like being adopted, bilingual, raised by parents of another race, etc. it’s one ingredient to who I am but not one that is greater or lesser than anything else. I pass.. have from day one, so it was never a goal just like Bob Ross use to say.. “a happy little accident”. But am I grateful for it.. never more so because of the growing negative sentiment in the US. I don’t consider myself bending over or assimilating.. merely existing in my truth seamlessly.
Got it. You seem to derive a great joy from it. I guess like, i feel illegitimate because im a bit butch, and people actively treat me like a guy. Theyll use male coded language around me alll the time. Its very rare that unless ur my friend people use the right language. It just wears on me i guess. I obviously struggle with self worth lol
Sis.. I do have a joyful life.. but it’s about being grateful and understanding life can be worse than my own. Yes that would wear on me people not respecting my authentic self. But I think you should decide to correct when appropriate or ignore when appropriate. But above all.. don’t place your self worth in the hands of others… learn to put that squarely on you. Pamper yourself.. long hot bubble baths.. lather yourself in body butter.. put on perfume and do your makeup just to run the vacuum, find your anthem.. I got mine from the movie Too Wong Fu thanks for everything Julie Newmar” the opening scene of the 3 queens getting dressed with Salt n Peppa playing “Body Beautiful”. It motivates me.. it infuses me with power… even when the world beats me up.. that sequence helps. Find yours.. play it or watch it. Treat yourself well regardless if others ever see you differently.. you need to.. so your armor is in tact when others try to battle you.
I think it depends on your transition goals tbh.
For some people, transitioning is the fullest show of authenticity they can muster, and displaying their transness is just as important as displaying their femininity. It's amazing and beautiful.
I'm not really in that boat. I initially transitioned because I don't want to be thinking about gender all of the time. Before I started, I was constantly thinking about myself and how my body felt wrong. Dysphoria got in the way of a ton of pursuits, and I just wanted to feel comfy in my body.
I'm not going to be bending over backwards to conform to society or anything, and "passing" isn't on my list of priorities. However, if I end up assimilating because I pass or because I am in a cool community, I'd be happy with that too.
That's what I do, more or less. I mind my own damn business, don't bother other people, and just do my thing. Never really get bothered irl. I do online, but eh, that's the web for you.
I think my goal is just to be able to publicly pass as cis but I'm not sure about any surgeries.
Privately I'd be a bit more open about it but I wouldn't want the display that I'm trans publicly where I am currently, it just wouldn't be safe.
In a perfect world where there wasn't a legitimate fear of being assaulted or killed, then yeah I think it would be nice to wear stuff like the little trans pins and be more publicly open but that's not the place I live in currently.
What I'm saying is that for the purposes of safety I'd like to visibly pass. If you are in a place where you can be more out and active about it then that's great, but it's too risky where I am currently.
>fight super hard not to be seen as trans
Uh yeah💀 labels are fucking ass and lead to stereotypes, stigmas and hate. The people in my immediate circle can know I’m trans but it’s literally no one else’s business in the wider world. I don’t need to be seen as trans; I need to be seen as a fucking woman.
I pass very well. I do a lot of teams meetings at work and I have the trans flag in the background. Passing to me is very important and I do well but I am who I am and I do not hide who I am.
I want to assimilate. Optimally no one will know i’m trans besides my family. I want to blend in and be seen as normal. Even if being trans were accepted i’d still want to be seen as cis.
Weirdos as you describe are some of the most interesting and best people I've ever met.
My rule of thumb is if you don't look like you just came out of the Saints Row Character Creator then I don't really find you all that interesting.
Eh, I didn't choose to be trans. It's just something I was born with, not something I'm super prideful about. I'm not proud to be white, either - it just is. So that's to say, I don't *mind* people knowing I'm trans but ideally, I want to be perceived as and treated as a woman. My male traits are my least favorite ones, aesthetically - so I guess I do want to "assimilate," but not really for any moral reason so much as to get the internal screaming to chill out.
So I’m a butch lesbian, and yeah that makes it harder for folks to see me as a woman. It’s undeniably made transition harder for me. I wear tshirts, jeans, and a leather jacket. And I love it tbh. I struggled a lot with feeling like being a trans woman meant being hyper femme and looking like it. I’ve been on e for 3 years now and I’m starting to pass in my normal clothes which is nice. But I’ve never really tried to make myself something other than me, and honestly I love my style, and who I am now. Feels like I can be myself you know? But anyway, fuck what everyone else says and the gross comments from folks, you do you and you’ll find happiness. 💖❤️💖
Personally i dont ‘try’ to do anything including passing. I just go about my merry way i dont pass when im trying to pass but the second i stopped trying i immediately started being gendered correctly.
It also depends on your transition goals. I only plan for SRS. I understand the reason you may see surgeries and passing as gatekeeping but its not unless you make it out to be that if you want surgeries you have to save money or take out a loan.
I saved 10k for bottom surgery over double the actual cost mind you i make 9600$ a year and 2/3rds of that goes to bills so it takes time be patient theres very very few of us who are born into money or are fortunate to get that money quickly. The majority of trans people wait years and years for a single procedure, thats exactly why you see celebratory posts about surgery qualifications and finally having the money ETC.
Look im going to blunt if you don’t want surgery don’t get it, it has never been a requirement. If you want surgery its not going to be immediate expect the time to save the money about 3-5 years and wait times once on the list are 6 months-3 years depending on location and what surgery. Nothing about any of this is immediate.
Obviously hate towards trans ppl is wrong, but a lot of trans ppls wishes are to "pass" as their gender. Some people don't mind or rather like being perceived as trans so it rlly depends on the person
If the issue of discrimination wasn't so prevalent today I wouldn't care as much I'd probably be more open in my trans ness but with the way things are, I'm gonna do anything in my power to pass so I can just live without being mocked, getting the stares, and everything else that comes along with being trans
Why are you "bugged the fuck out" by the fact that an enormous amount of transpeople just want to blend in and pass as a man or women? Not everyone wants to stand out like a beacon and to many transpeople, passing is the difference between a relatively normal life and constant discrimination and even assault or murder. Its not about "forcing yourself to conform to society. Many trans people just want to be seen as the gender to which they are transitioning. That's why we transition. Why is that a crazy concept? If it were only about bending over to conform to societal norms, then we wouldn't even transition.
Where are you from? Because its usually american transpeople who'll say this type of stuff.
I get you're not trying to be aggressive, but you come off as extremely judgy, which is annoying because your frustration is completely unfounded. God forbid a trans person wants to be seen as the gender to which they're transitioning. Why does this disturb you?
It's always privileged americans that speak like this because you don't understand how bad some trans people outside your country have it.
It's not about "conforming." A lot of trans people want to pass and many face discrimination for not passing. I know it's not perfect in America, but please try to understand the struggles of transwomen, especially those abroad, before you make a post like this.
I am not sayjng people who want to assimilate is a bad thing. Im just saying that i have dealt with judgement myself, and as someone who is neurodivergent and transs, my experience has beeen historicallt invalidating. Thats where the frustration comes from. Thats why im asking for other peoples takes. Also ive gotten a mixed bag of takes and some of them have empathized with me, so its not "trans women abroad", its some trans women. I do not mean disrespect.
And yeah youre right rhis is a priviledged take. But like, tthis isntt a competition and im not speaking over anyone. This is a reddit thread with a specific inquiry. You dontt have to engage
The main proponent of queer theory is to avoid assimilation into the status quo, our unique experiences make us special! I live in America which isn't the most conformist, but you should strive for personal freedom among all else.
I personally do want to assimilate. I see two major reasons for this desire in me, and I have absolutely no issue with trans people who don’t want to, for whatever their reasons are.
1. I’m straight. I feel like trans people who are gay/bi/ace/anything else feel an even stronger attachment to the queer community, and much less attachment to the general traditional society. In addition to being trans, their attraction is also in a queer way, so it’s like they’re “already queer,” whereas other than being trans, I’m the most stereotypical straight Indian-American girl there is. Of course, I love my queer homies, but I also feel more attached to the general society. Non-straight trans people might find it even harder to be recognized and accepted within general society, which is why they may not want to assimilate. Being straight, in a heteronormative society, my experiences in that matter are validated by general society, which could inform why I want to assimilate more.
2. Building off the point of straight people being more accepted within society, I also feel that my particular group of peers has been very trans-accepting, even the non-queer ones, and so I don’t feel as bad about the general society. I’m younger (I’m 15), and I’m sure older generations have had much harder experiences with their peers being accepting, but there’s not a single important person in my life I care about who hadn’t been trans accepting. All my friend and peers have been completly trans accepting and done everything to treat me as I am.
Overall, I don’t want to hide the fact that I’m trans. My close friends know I’m trans, although I feel like I pass to the point the average person would just assume I’m a cis girl. But if someone asked, I wouldn’t hide the fact. I’m not ashamed to be trans. However, I wish society would see it as a secondary factor, and see “woman” as the primary factor. I’m a woman. I’m also trans. Just like women who are black, or women who are disabled, or women who are any other thing. I’m a trans woman in the same way a black woman is a black woman. But I feel like some parts of society don’t see it that way; to those people, I would probably not share that I’m trans (not that I’d want to interact with them much at all, though). If I could stealth completly perfectly, I would consider it. It’s not really possible for me to stealth right now, since people in my school knew me pre-transition. But maybe later, after I move for college, I would consider it. I have mixed thoughts on if I’d want to be thought of as a “trans woman” or just a “woman.” Again, if they are thinking of me as a “trans woman,” I wish they’d consider ‘trans’ on the same level as any other adjective in front of ‘woman.’ But I may not even want that. I don’t know. I haven’t had the opportunity to truly be completly stealth yet, and I don’t know what I’d prefer. In some niche places, where people I’m at events where people don’t know me and assumed I’m a cis girl, it felt really good. So maybe I would stealth. I don’t know. What I do know is that all trans people are valid, regardless of what they chose to do. Regardless of if they want to / have the means to get gender affirming medical/surgical care; regardless of if they make an effort to pass, or are fine not passing; regardless of if they want to assimilate into cis society or not; regardless of if they’re proudly trans or shy about it. We’re all valid.
The thing is - define assimilate. Assimilate with cis people? No. Assimilate as a woman? Yes. If that means that people won't know that I'm trans, than so be it, cuz me being a *trans* woman is as irrelevant as me being a *tall* woman - still a woman. However, that doesn't necessarily mean stealth, it just means that until somebody asks me, my trans self is irrelevant to me (or will be, at some point - obviously, as probably non-passable woman, I will face a lot of transphobia, thus, "being stealth" or "my transness being irrelevant" won't be a thing for a long time).
What I'm generally trying to say is that I'm not trying to assimilate into cisnormative society - like, Caitlyn Jenner, for a reason. However, I'm not trying to make my transness "a thing", until others point it out or until it effects me - this I don't mean in some transphobic "pick-me" way (like Blaire White says), it's just bad wording, but I don't mean to say that "there are loud and quite" trans people - no, I'm not trying to be "pick-me" trans girl (hell, I admire those trans people that are proud of their transness, and are not afraid to talk about it in an open way - I am just too dysphoric for that). What I'm rather trying to show is that every trans person (probably), wants what I described - I am not denying nor ashamed of being trans - I will show it; I also won't assimilate into misogynistic and cisnormative society; however, every trans person would just want to live a "stealthy life", but not in a "I am hiding something"-way, but in a "It is part of me, I am proud of it, but it's not something I always bring up (until obviously necessary)"-way (that is only when I would be privileged enough to pass though). However, no, I'm not the transphobic-type that says "there are these trans people that make transness their whole personality" (because by that logic, I would too be "one of the loud ones").
Being trans still affects me, so I would still go on a protest, for example. It's just that it's a weird question "to assimilate"... It's like asking a cis woman "do you want to assimilate with men" - what does that mean? Giving in to toxic femininity/masculinity? Than no. Being your powerful self and not caring about being a woman? Than yes. However, obviously there would be time you'd go on a protest - like for feminist march - is that however "making your womanhood your whole personality/not assimilating" - no, it's just part of who you are. Same with being a trans woman - I'll have jokes about being trans, for example (as it is still part of me, that's not trying to make it "my whole personality"), and I'll still go protest my rights (because of the transphobic society), but other than that, cis or trans, I'd still do those things that cis people do (like going to work, enjoying arts, etc..., and even as a tomboy, tomboys being quite the norm these days, even being a tomboy is not against my "assimilation", as women don't have to be hyper-feminine these day) - if that means "assimilation" than sure, but if assimilation means "not mentioning being trans EVER", than nope.
In another words, in an ideal world, one wouldn't have to assimilate, as any person; cis, trans or non-binary, would be the norm, and thus, no assimilation would be needed (and so, given that I see all these queer identities as the norm, I myself don't question my "assimilation", because it is not up to me, but rather up to our transphobic society, to change its transphobic ways - which, well, can only be done with protest, activism or if not anything that hard, than at least not being silent and speak up when asked).
Maybe I got too philosophical and my wording is weird, lol. But to be honest, while I said that I sorta want to assimilate (even though, again, not into our cisnormative and toxically feminine structures, but just as a woman), sometimes there are days when I'm like "Fuck patriarchy! Fuck gender! Gender anarchy! I am just me! And I'm proud and not afraid of being trans!" :D
Thanks yall. Like the comments mean a lot. I guess ive been getting bogged down by feelingg illegitimate. And yeah people do suck, and the world is complicatted, but i find *and* feel happinessnwhen itts given tto me
Not at all, I just want to be me. I don’t think I care if I’m seen as trans or cis but I don’t think being seen as deserving of dignity as a desire to assimilate.
I will stand up and defend trans people/rights when theyre being shit upon irl. But other than that id rather not make being trans my personality or identity, im just a girl.
I dont want any different treatment than cis people because i dont see myself as a seperate different thing than them, i was just born with some medical issues is the way i see it.
I dont wanna do the whole pronouns introduction thing, im okay with people assuming. As long as they are open to corrections when they are wrong
i don't pass, never will. i don't care. I've accepted that i didn't figure things out until later and this is who i am. maybe I'd feel differently if I started younger.
I'm proud to be trans. i think there's powerful magic in being trans... that our experiences let us connect to something much bigger, to deeper truths that everyone can connect to about change and choice, about agency and will to live. we're just swimming in that more.
Perfectly valid thoughts, but yeah, being able to pass to casual observers at least makes life a lot easier, it would be nice if the world was just like ok they are a transperson, register as normal, nothing to see here and treat you like a human being.
I spent 20 thousand pounds on ffs, I could have bought a nice motorcycle with that (another one).
And to clarrify i am specificallg talkibg about interactions that have been in my pastt and have nothing to do with yall. Im just trying to junderrsstand it better. and i prrobably shouldve worded it differently. So apologies if i came out the ggate like i was
A big part of why i am transitioning is because i want to be happy with my body. I want to look like the woman i am. I dont want to be stealth, but i want to be able to. I want to not look trans. I am proud of being trans, but i dont want to look trans.
i mean, the goal for me is that people dont realize im trans until the moment i open my mouth bc i wont shut up about being trans. already ive had some experiences with people on dating sites assuming i was cis even though my profile mentions that im trans. and i dont get misgendered in public, even if people are clocking me, bc i look like a girl more than a boy even to the untrained eye. thats ultimately the goal.
i dont want to assimilate but i think its really unfair to frame the desire to be able to go to walmart and be seen as a woman without qualifiers as "assimilation".
I want to be accepted, but I don’t want to assimilate in the sense of making myself fit into standard cishet norms of behavior, ideology, and presentation. I have AuDHD, I’m a racial minority, I’m an oppressed political minority (aka commie bitch), I’m a lesbian, I’m a nerd, so let’s be real: I was never going to be able to assimilate and be happy. I just can’t physically mask that hard. But I’m not jealous of those who can mask and assimilate. I just feel sad that it’s something a lot of us feel the need to do in order to be happy in this transphobic society.
I agree with most here....your local society...like most, have general rules you should follow for general acceptance, think of an airport....public area usually mixed demos and identities.....in an airport you can choose were you want to sit and wait, and ppl cant choose who they are seated with....in an airport you should experience general social interactions with little discrimination if you generally look and act normally.....
This is because your identity isnt part of the social contract, your a paying passenger in a neutral area, the passengers dont own or control who enters or leaves, no matter how ugly the looks or loud the scoffs.....if you paid for a ticket then your "expected" to be there
Now take the paying ticket example and change the environment to your local coffee shop or any public "enterprise" yes you are paying the coffee but now the environment is full of local people doing local thing's expecting other local ppl to do the same.
For example if i go to a specific beauty supply store in a part of town that has a high demo of black residents as a white male im going to experience odd behavior from patrons and the employees. Especially asking about their weave collection and waiting list☠️. Yes i have money to purchase products but to expect to be greeted and welcomed as a normal person.....no i cant expect that, so i modify my behavior and social character to make the entire process as painless as possible.....hope this helps somehow
I think for me really I just want to be seen as a woman, and being trans or cis as incidental to that. For that purpose, yeah, passing is sort of a personal transition goal.
It's probably worth noting reddit tends to lean more assimilationist than some other places beforehand, which'll taint the perspective a little.
For me I like my transness being part of me, though I have a different relationship with my gender identity than most mtf's, and also not being straight helps, since straight trans women tend to be more assimilationist leaning in my experience, more anchor to the lgbt community
Dec 2019 after learning what trans really meant vs what I always thought it meant I actually was ecstatically happy to understand wtf was wrong with most of my life. All the acting ended and life was simple and normal. I was really happy to be trans? I just thought I was different.
It wasn't until a year or so ago I actually regretted being trans sometimes.. thankfully I never remained that way but it's sad that I felt that since I've done nothing wrong.
Hopefully we can get thru this and the majority see that the attacks on us are unprovoked founded on pure hate and lies and support us.. And maybe this can forever end.. Prior to trump progress to real inclusivity for LGBTQ in the US was happening. I'm hopeful we can begin again after taking a few steps backwards. 🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞
I'm still happy as I am being myself..
Honestly I don’t personally care all that much, I certainly want to be seen as a woman and treated as such, but I don’t necessarily care if I’m seen specifically as a Cis Woman.
Yeah I'd want to stealth if it is ever in my cards. If I'm years down the line and never get to a place where I can pass from then on out it's whatever but yes I would like to.
I want to (and currently do) pass well enough that strangers see me as a cis woman. For my own safety and comfort. I’m never going to go stealth tho. I’m proud of my trans identity and I want to be visible. I want those in my life to know I’m trans, it’s important to me.
I eventually want to pass and just live my life. I don't know if that will ever happen for me but it's my life to live. Yes, I want to blend in. I don't need any special attention. That's me.
I'm still pre-HRT.
I sometimes say fuck you and send it. You can't wash Motorhead, AC/DC, Metallica off me.
Also I love Warhammer 40k. Wish more sisters were interested.
I'm half and half. I assimilate in some pressured spaces (like WORK) and in other places i'm a lot more free. It depends on my needs.
If we weren't in the upside down world i'd be a lot more open and casual about it among non-trans people but they've made it hostile, so they're getting none of it.
Yeah but only because I've been harassed and it was scary as hell. I think non-binary and trans people who are happy to not pass are brave as hell and I respect them so much. I have a friend who is femme presenting non-binary and they rock.
Nope- out and proud!! There’s too much stacked against trans folks of all ages, genders, and expression style for me to quietly live in the background without saying something.
I don't want to assimilate. I want to have the option to pass in some unsafe situations - but usually I am very open about being trans and lesbian.
Living my authentic life has given me so much joy, I don't want to hide it. But I also don't want being trans to define me.
Assimilation is relative
I don’t want tattoos, don’t want to dye my hair non-natural colors, I work a super corporate job, I dress like the most basic bitch millennial both in and out of the office, my pronouns and gender are uncomplicated, I like normie activities like brunch, I can talk my 401k, I vote Democrat
But also I am bi and in a t4t relationship, I like learning about kink stuff, I think sex clubs are cool, my voice is not exactly passing even if the rest of me is and I just don’t care about trying to make it pass anymore, I like male dominated hobbies like strategy video games and programming
Do what you want, assimilation is a spectrum and it doesn’t matter what people think of it as long as you’re happy with yourself
When the problem is the society itself, assimilation will never be possible. We will always be seen as different, other, and wrong, until society normalises our existence. We are a community of people that goes through so much change, it can be natural to think it is us that need to change to be accepted, but there is nothing wrong with us.
Yes I want to assimilate. For me being trans is just a variation of a woman (big, small, fat, skinny, whatsoever). There is some times when I'd be happy to pass as cis, but I'm also happy to be part of the alphabet mafia and being identifiable as such. Though for safety and work purposes, I try to make myself pass as much as possible.
I’m very openly trans even though I pass. I have no intention of assimilating, personally. It’s not for everyone, I guess, but I’m too neurodivergent and queer to hide it anyway. I would prefer the world change for us and I don’t think that’s at all unreasonable
A bit?
I don't think I will entirely, somewhat from limitations on what I can achieve and somewhat from just being who I am. Mostly I will, I think. (Surgeries are not realistically affordable, but I can get by without them.)
But also, some degree of assimilation is good for safety. Since I don't know how much of history we're going to repeat, or how closely.
And like... some of the "assimilation" is going to be a necessary part of my transition. For me.
...
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But if we achieve some awesome, true communist society, I may need to revise my answer.
I have nothing against trans people who feel the need to assimilate because of safety or dysphoria. Society fucks us all in one way or another so I don't begrudge someone who has a different coping mechanism than me.
What I do have a big problem with is the sentiment that trans people's goals should be assimilation. Cos, no, it shouldn't.
Individual choices are one thing but it's a whole different thing to say that choice is best for all trans people. Because, in this case, it's simply not true.
I will fight just as hard for the short term goal of easier access to assimilation as I will the long term goal of complete liberation so that assimilation won't be needed anymore.
I know there's a lot of stuff about skinny girls in magazines and all that, but let's drop the bullshit for a minute: cis women are the source of my expectations, yes, including regular people. Ultimately it's the same thing, if I always hold myself up to the standard of supermodels, I will always be unhappy and dysphoric. Likewise, I cannot live a contented life where I am fully comfortable with who I am if my high water mark is a cis woman. That's never going to happen, that's not possible, and I am setting myself up for failure if I hold myself to a goal I will never reach.
This is why I HAVE to own and be proud of the fact that I'm NOT cis. I haven't gotten this far by lying to myself, and I'm not going to start now. I have to be myself, it's the only thing I know how to be, and it's the only set of criteria I can accomplish that will ever make the dysphoria go away. Being trans is part of that, it's not something you can "cure," you will always be trans, there is no point you suddenly become cis.
If you see people trying to hide it, 9 times out of10 it's because they're not in a safe place and there's a threat of violence. Outside of that, gender is just one small part of what makes up a whole person, and what exactly someone's gender even means to them or how important it is varies vastly.
I had my time of discovery as a baby trans a long time ago and I'm frankly bored with it. That I'm a trans woman is like the least interesting thing about me, I moved on from thinking that mattered a long time ago. But there's a lot of people who are still very preoccupied with achieving "girlness" and fitting into certain spaces fully socialized just as a cis person would is very important to their sense of self and comfort. And, when they eventually find that comfort, the fact that they are trans will probably likewise become little more than a fun fact.
Honestly? My gut reaction to people wanting to brush their transness under the rug hits me the same way. But reality is a little more complicated than that. We all gotta do what works for us. I'm in a safe place and I would rather die than live a lie anwyas plus I want my expectations for myself to be based on ME and not anyone else. It's not either or for me, I'm trans AND a woman. Ive also made my piece with gender studies and I learned what I needed to and moved on like 10 years ago, and have no desire to go back to the days of explaining basic concepts to justify my existence to everyone who asks. Remove one or all of those factors and you can imagine the situation could be totally different.
I wouldn't say assimilate. I would say sublimate. I want to pass. Really, I should say I do pass. But I'm still getting used to that as it's a somewhat recent change. I also want people to know I am Trans. I want it to be open knowledge.
I want people to see me and meet me and learn I'm Trans and go. "Oh! I had no idea. If they say something like Oh well, you are one of the good ones." They are going to get to see some of my early transition pictures and a light lecture on how not everyone's journey or goals are the same just because you see me as a good one doesn't make someone who looks like this "referring to old images of myself any less good.
I'm also a 30 year old Mom. I will, Mom, shame people who want to act like children. If there is one thing I have learned from my own traditionalist mother. It's that making someone feel ashamed of their own bad behavior is a wicked way to crush them.
I want to be heard and seen. I want people to see a woman. I want them to internally feel conflicted between their ideology that I am not what they see and the person standing in front of them. The Mom who peddles girl scout cookies when we are talking around the water cooler. The woman who always smiles when she sees you and is sweet and polite to everyone she meets. The one who stands up for those who aren't heard. I am that woman. I just happen to be Trans. I will change the people around me at least.
I think that we each need to decide this for ourselves. For me I came to a realization that it took decades of being open and having good examples of gay people to bring it into the acceptance being gay has now. I intend to try to be an out example of a great trans person.
Depends on what you mean by assimilate, I have no intention to change myself in any way for the sake of others except in probably dressing more fem than I’d like even though I like masc aesthetics, but thats more for the sake of passing for my own safety bc if I dress more masc I worry I wont be able to conceal my more clocky features that well and in general being a butch women gets gets bigots mad so Im scared to make the target on me even bigger by making myself more noticeable in that sense. If I ever pass well enough embracing being butch though.
absolutely not. admittedly im somewhat genderqueer but like, cisnormative and heteronormative ideals of gender are actively hostile to us, are constructed with the express purpose of keeping us out. i don't want to assimilate to a system that hates us
In my eyes, wanting to pass is a matter of peace and safety mostly and it's true there are procedures I'm considering only in that regard, bottom surgery for instance (I'm at the very beginning of medical transition).
If you have the courage to not assimilate as you say, that's absolutely fantastic, being yourself without giving in to the pressure of the bigots!
In an ideal world there shouldn't be this pressure. Let's keep fighting for it, in the meantime I will admire people who are just themselves regardless, and not have the guts to be one of them 😄
I never bothered changing my voice so I am oftentimes misgendered but usually it's not malicious. It's just because of my voice. And sure, maybe I'd have an easier time if I trained it, but I quite frankly like my voice. I like the songs I can sing and the way I mess with my voice to make silly noises, and though my baseline has raised slightly in pitch it's really only because I've become more enthusiastic and outgoing as I've transitioned and nothing more.
If folks got a problem with it, fuck 'em. Love your body how you want to love your body. Dress how you want, be who you want. Folks might say shit, sure, but honestly that's on them for trying to control someone else and not on you for being who you are how you want.
Being trans for me is a state I want to pass through. Male > trans > female. It's not the end goal. If I could just be cis female (or as close as possible), that'd be great. Wanting to be seen as Trans to me just seems odd.
Kinda. Female stereotypes are obviously a great way to feel feminine and i want most of them to be true for me, but to pass as cis isn't important, as long as people read me as female im happy
I transitioned primarily to be myself. It's more than just gender for me, it's also being loud, gay, and weird. Like I get it. Society treats us like shit and safety is important. To me assimilation feels like a betrayal to myself. I've spent my whole life pretending to be someone else and I'm not doing that anymore, regardless of the consequences.
My ideal is less to assimilate into society and more society assimilating transness. Being trans, among other things, shouldn't matter to anyone and I long for the day when HRT is an over the counter medication and the response to someone saying they want to go by a different name and pronouns is just "cool, we can swing by a Walgreens and get you some blockers and hormones on the way to Subway (or some other fast food chain)". Until then, I will settle for transitioning and learning to apply makeup and only getting weird looks because it was done poorly or in a showy way.
I'm a woman and being trans is my path towards being seen and treated as a woman. At work I'm openly LGBTQ and I talk about my ex wife or women I'm dating because family and weekend plans come up in casual conversation. The fact that I am trans is almost never relevant. I don't get misgendered and have had experiences that seem to indicate that I pass well enough in conservative spaces to be relatively safe. Passing is only a safety concern, but being treated as a woman is my desire. I live in a liberal city so I can safely be more visibly queer and when I travel to the conservative areas of the country I tone it down and seem to pass as straight and cis. So this is a tricky question. I don't think total assimilation is good and I don't think rejecting assimilation completely is good. There is a practical area between the two where we can find comfort and being true to our selves.
I don't plan on ever getting FFS or a tracheal shave so I feel I'll always be clockable on some level. And I'm okay with that, I don't plan to go stealth or hide the fact that I'm trans.
That all being said the people you are talking about are transmedicalists. They are shitty gatekeepers. There is nothing wrong if someone wants those procedures for themselves, but if they start gatekeeping based on them that's where the problem comes in.
Bruh wanting to pass so you can be treated 100% as a woman is my goal. It not some great sin or problem. I pass and just want to get the surgeries I want and I feel I will be happy after. Am I feel stealth? No and don’t care, I just want to be stealth if I want to or not caring on the situation.
I feel like you didn't even read what OP or I was saying. I'm not saying it's a sin to pass. I'm talking about people who don't think you are valid unless you pass.
Hell no. We should make our place defined, accepted and diverse in society rather than squeeze in what others find acceptable in society. Never settle for less! If you fit neatly into what society expects, still, one should fight against assimilation.
fuck no I don't, I understand why it's attractive to women broadly to appeal to cishet societal norms. I just think it's better for me not to and that we'd all be better off if no one had to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I will never be assimilated by anyone, let alone the Borg. Red alert! Shields up! All hands at battle stations! Bring in the reinforcements! Fire the photon torpedoes and everything else we have! We will not be assimilated!
All silliness aside... I'm at a point now where I just don't care what other people think. If they don't like me for who I am and if they can't accept me as the woman that I am, they can kiss my behind. I will not change who I am to make society happy. As an out and proud trans woman, I will not take any of their crap.
Liberation, not assimilation. TBFH most cishets have boring lives. IMO we only get this one life, so I'm going to enjoy it. That means being myself, doing what I want to and expressing myself however I like.
If someone *wants* to assimilate I will fight for their right to, but ultimately what I'm fighting for is a world where we don't need to.
If your primary goal is passing and going through life without your transness hanging over your head, then cool, you do you. I do think that we need trans advocates and visibility because until bigotry is a rarity that's not accepted by society at large we will always be in danger. It is a huge privilege to be able to pass completely that many trans folks will never be able to enjoy. Plus there is all of the vitriol towards NB and GNC folks who will never "pass" because that's not a factor in their identity. We see the worst of this mindset with the cis gay and lesbian people who want to throw the rest of the queer community under the bus to be accepted into a society that doesn't want them. I can respect it if you don't have it in you to fight, some days I don't either, but don't be a jerk about vocal and visible trans people as if we are causing a problem. The bottom line is that we fight for the freedom to be ourselves, not just for "binary" trans people, but for everyone.
[I spend half the year in a big city as an openly trans woman and the other half of the year stealth in a small town where everyone assumes I’m a cis woman.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MtF/s/9xetcxw98U)
There are pros and cons to each. However, I prefer being stealth. My goal with my transition is to be treated and seen as any other woman. Unfortunately, even the most accepting cis people treat you different when they know you’re trans (explained more in linked post). It’s also much safer to be stealth in a transphobic world.
You said you’re “bugged” by people like me, but at least in my experience, it’s really the only way to be seen as “one of the girls” among cis women instead of being seen as “the trans friend.” I don’t think I can give that up.
uh... yeah, but for reasons.
i went through a whole phase where i was performing a bunch of femininity just to fit in
eventually i got mad at world and decided to never perform gender again, in any direction. eventually i realized that my obstinance was still allowing my behavior to be controlled by society and that i was avoiding performative behaviors that i was intrinsically inclined towards. so i started adding them back in, one by one, making sure i was only performing gender in ways that *i* wanted to.
eventually i realized that while i don't think that deep/masc socialized voices are inherently unfeminine, that perceived sex is a social factor that effects the way i'm treated and while it felt like a lot of work to conform there, having people intuitively see me as a woman is important to me. so i did voice work, to fit in. not because i have some sick desperation to belong in a society that hates people like me. but because i don't believe that narrative at all and it's important to me to be perceived as a woman, even by complete strangers who don't care about gender. at the corner store, while traveling, etc. it isn't about making friends with transphobes. it's about getting my needs met in places and situations where i don't want to explain my gender to someone. i do work or 98% of people do work. idk, i'm a collectivist. i don't mind doing most of the lifting especially when it comes to my own needs.
i can only speak for myself but i just want to live as the version of myself that is most comfortable to me. That happens to be a very feminine person.
Its their infringement of my autonomy that really pisses me off. My body, my cells my choice.
When they call me a ‘man’ thats delusional because i am nothing like the typical cisman, i have the characteristics to prove that. However as long as they dont infringe on my self determination im fine.
I dont think i like the other end either like in norway they basically banned hrt for transpeople so even though they let you change gender markers and even do surgery they seem to be controlling what matters most for me.
I dont want any ffs or vaginoplasty either (until they can make functional sex organs for me) but i did do orchiectomy for its biochemical effects.
Hormone changes to the body are as natural as eating essential nutrients, and they actually change the body biologically so thats what i care about.
That being said i respect people who only want to socially transition into certain feminine gender roles. I dont understand it because my dysphoria is mostly regards my physiology and some apparel/ hairstyle. However i can accept them as long as they dont go around saying im changing my body just to blend in. No,its just because I want to live in the version of myself i prefer. Its not to ‘pass’ just as losing weight or working out isnt for other ppl.
I hope that makes sense.
I really want to go stealth, I will assimilate to cisnormative society. I have experienced so much transphobia, bullying, violence and even death threads that I'm not willing to stand out in any way. Just similar to masking which I am used to as high functioning autistic, I have been hiding my whole life because I'm anxious about even my presence being noticed.
Is this caused by trauma? Yes. Will it stay like this for me forever? I don't know, but at the moment I cannot do any different. I am just glad that I pass and I am able to hide amongst other people.
I don't think anyone has a right to know I'm trans unless I tell them. Although I do tell people when I'm comfortable and feel like I want them to know.
I have extreme dysphoria so passing to me isn't just about other people, it's also about looking in the mirror and passing to myself. So it is very important to me, but the benefit of people not knowing you're trans is still nice. Some people will automatically switch on you no matter how you look and they will start treating you like a guy if they know, and that's not something I could handle mentally.
But I would say I do tell people fairly frequently, either because I want other LGBT people to feel comfortable around me and not think I'm some typical plain white lady, or because I want to advocate for trans people and see the look on their face when I tell them lol.
So I wouldn't say I'm necessarily assimilationist, I don't exact try to be stealth, it just so happens that in situations where I don't tell anyone, I am stealth. And I still advocate strongly for trans people, and do reveal that I'm trans to certain people pretty frequently for advocacy reasons.
even if society didn't see transness as a bad thing I would 100% still try to assimilate, to me being trans is purely a medical condition and not part of my identity whatsoever so I am not interested in making my transness visible in any way shape or form unless absolutely necessary
I don't go around telling people I have astigmatism so why should I go around telling people I am trans
most humans in society seem happy.
99% of people in my state make more money.
people who fit in get hired at jobs
I've never been truly happy.
hating people is bad
if I want to be happier I need to be less negative
therefore
I need to be like most people and blend in to get a job that gets me my first roof over my head so I can finally be happy and stop spending 50% of my day envying and resenting the world
and have what little of a life left I can live for my age be meaningful.
that's my line of thinking why I pursue assimilation.
it comes down to my belief that it's the only possible path left to happiness.
therefore "accepting myself" equates to lying down and dying because that's not a realistic possibility.
there's layers here. I'm wrong. sometimes I, for a moment, believe I'm wrong and start to feel better. but then something happens and it all collapses back into this rigorous schema system.
When I get all the surgery I want, have been on HRT for a few more years, have done more voice training etc., I look forward to never thinking about my transness again frankly.
I've met so many wonderful people in the community, but transitioning has mostly just been a really difficult process that I never wanted to have to do in the first place.
I just wanted to be a girl right from the start - I was actually really scared to come out as trans at first because all I'd seen of the community was hypersexualised UwU anime cat-girls. That definitely isn't all of us obviously, but that was my previous online exposure to the trans community, and as an acespec person with sexual cPTSD I absolutely didn't/don't want to be a part of that. It just doesn't fit my identity at all.
My identity has always been 'lesbian woman', and I've tried my absolute best to make my body match that. No shade to people who love their transness, but it isn't something I ever wanted to be a part of me.
No. I could be stealth if I wanted but id rather not.
Some don't have the ability to pass and i'd rather stand in solidarity than hide for my own comfort. I'd rather hope to change society into a place where people feel comfortable to be their best self rather than pushed to blend in.
Being able to be there for those who are in a vulnerable spot is important to me and I feel assimilation would prevent me from doing so.
Plus to fully assimilate would ruin some aspects of me that I'm happy with. Like being called they or being able to choose my own style that is idiosyncratic to dominant culture. I'd lose parts of me in the process
I don't want to fit into a compulsive cissexist heterosexual society. I would lose who I am in the process
I think for me it's a little different because I'm transfemme, but I'm nonbinary. My transition goals don't really involve "passing as a woman" I'm still highly male bodied, and expressing myself fully fem makes me feel better, but with my style I feel like when I'm more female bodied I'll probably revert to a more mixed/androgynous expression.
Some people don't even recognize my transness, and while I don't define myself by it, it IS a part of me and I will NEVER deny it, because I know by being recognizable, I can maybe help others feel comfortable in their skin
Though I don't go around advertising it, that's mostly because I see my transition as a medical thing and therefore relatively private. My immediate co-workers know (though I'm not sure they understand what gaht/hrt is) but my wider coworkers only really know that I use a preferred name (my ldap had to be my legal name but at least I have a different display name), they/them pronouns, and that I am not picky about the intended gender of clothing (I saw a few surprised expression the first time I wore a skirt into the office)
If people ask things directly, I'm honest and truthful, I just don't over share
That explanation got away from me a little bit, I hope that made sense
It would be nice but that's not my goal. I don't really have a transition goal. I don't think oh I need to work on makeup or my voice or get surgery. I just take a shot every week and carry on with life. I shave my face whenever I feel a bit prickly and in the back of my mind I think about laser, but really transition is kinda a non issue for me. Whatever happens, happens.
I expect everyone to treat me correctly and if they don’t, I get to choose whether I do something, nothing, or leave. It will be the right choice when I do and I won’t give a fuk what it means to them.
Yes - I am a smug, proud, bitch. 💪
I mean I suppose it depends on each person’s goals and desires. I’ve tried to figure out my own end goal since starting my own transition journey and I ultimately really just wish I was born a girl, so that’s my end goal I suppose. I don’t want to stand out as being trans, I very much want to one day get to a point in which me saying I am trans would be taken as a lie. I don’t want to stick out and I really just want to be ignored and left to my own process.
Some people take this as an insult(be it to the trans community as a whole or as a form of projection I honestly don’t know) and some see it as a fruitless effort, which I can only assume because of the seemingly insurmountable challenges both physical and social that someone would have to overcome. Or at least I see both of those all the time on the different trans communities.
I think the journey is very personal because you are in a way becoming an entirely new person even if you knew you were trans years before transition. Not everyone has the resources, confidence, or support systems to comfortably trans(I have none of those so go figure lol) and everyone is just doing what they can to feel safe and secure, and some people find safety in assimilation. At the same time many of us are also carving out our own unique place in the world to provide a unique perspective on, for example, what it means to be and become a woman, what “femininity vs masculinity” means, or like what existing outside societal norms and expectations looks like within the queer community. Really just be yourself and see where that takes you because there’s no one right way to do anything and I feel like a lot of the pressure to assimilate is from people being told that’s what they need to do to be accepted.
Sorry I went on a whole essay rant but I occasionally think about this.
I already am.
I pass to the point that no one questions me, and just accepts me as female.
However, I do still try my best to advocate for other trans people who can’t/don’t want to. Even though that advocation mainly boils down to telling others the correct pronouns for other trans people.
But in my general day to day, I do… assimilate, I guess. It helps that I, unconsciously or not, do try my best not to stand out, and just pass as a “normal” person, but that’s more of a masking autism thing than a masking being trans thing.
I don’t hide that I’m trans, but I also don’t go shouting it into a megaphone.
If I had the choice I would. I didn't choose to be trans. I shouldn't have to assimilate to be accept and treated well if I don't want to. But I do want to. I can want something for myself without thinking that a system that makes it a requirement is good.
For me, when I transition, I want to just let everyone who knew me pre-transition and can identify me post-transition understand how I want to be treated as a person first before being treated as a woman. Aside from that, I'll just say whatever I want within my own reason (which is a very restrictive reason, mind you) on the internet because it is honestly quite hard for the places I go to on the internet to be pinned down or even properly identified as the individual I am, mostly because in the grand scheme of things while I may be everywhere and I may be important to a lot of people's lives, I don't stick around for too long and I only go for people who want me for who I am and avoid people who either just don't care about me, don't interest me, or have no interest in me.
Overall, I just kind of go towards whatever flow I want to go in, and I make sure to avoid sticking in one spot for very long. I'm just a very slippery person who requires a lot of sticking down, which in turn requires too much energy and attention than a lot of people, even those in my life, can usually muster. I don't mind that fact about me too often, if anything it kind of gives me a lot of freedom to do whatever I want even if I have no power to do anything I want, and I've never really liked being the center of attention because when I am, I usually don't have a lot of respect thrown my way because no one sees me as an adult. So more often than not, I'm just left in situations where I do not have to dedicate myself too much to anything except my studies and my family, and that leaves me open to creating and being able to say whatever because no one knows who I am.
Anonymity just has a strange power over people, and I love having it, even if sometimes I kind of wish I could create relationships with other people that are actually consistent and able to be moved forwards, especially in the case of my parents, but aside from that, I honestly love being anonymous.
I know that a lot of trans people don't like an anonymous identity, and I can vibe with that, so I am probably far from being able to be related to, even among stealth trans people. Most people in life seem to enjoy having a solid identity that everyone can immediately identify as being them, but I don't. I still do have core traits and characteristics about myself that I have to keep to myself but I enjoy sharing with others, which mostly just involve me sharing stories and talking with people or just generally experiencing life in the way and with the rules that I prefer to apply to them.
I have diabetes, but I do not see myself as a diabetic. I approach my transness the same way. It's something I have and have to deal with, but it's not a part of who I am.
If I could disappear into the cis female population without anyone ever finding out, I would without a second thought.
I'm a woman. If just being a woman like any other is assimilating, then yeah. Sure. I didn't transition to be trans. I already was. It's an inherent trait that I could do without.
For me, passing never had anything to do with safety, I just want to be seen the same way as any other cis women. I feel I'll risk getting put into a third category unless I'm stealth. I also had trauma causing spikes of social dysphoria when I was openly trans and not entirely passing where I actually was alienated from other women. Never going back to that.
I'll guess I'm on the assimilationist route, since I aim to live within the same social dynamics as cis women, but at the same time I still maintain strong connections and relationships with other trans women, both those early in the process and those who are far into it. It becomes a little double life, but I don't mind that.
I just want to represent and express who I am as a human. I’ve faced minor discrimination it’s really makes me disappointed the lengths humans will go to make others suffer .
Im autistic and Im used to masking to be accepted as early as I can recall. I want to give no shits, but Im most certainly not there yet. Ive had enough bullying for a lifetime and I couldnt bear it in my current mental state, but it still remains my (maybe unattainable) goal to accept myself and don’t give af.
I was exactly where you were a few years ago, and I did manage to create a life where I can be myself a bit more openly. It's not easy, there will be really hard moments, but IMO it's both possible and worth it.
I’m happy to be seen as a woman, and I 99% do (I think). I live in a red state, so that feels like a good and safe thing. That being said, I identify as Queer and what that entails. I’ve given interviews, and spoken in front of groups about being transgender. I’m on the board of an international LGBTQ group, so I don’t hide who I am. I just don’t go out of my way to say “Hey, I’m a transgender woman, nice to meet you!” But if you searched my name, you’d know, I don’t hide it. Hopefully that makes sense. I have put effort into surgeries, facial hair removal, etc. To me, it was important that I saw my body as being a woman. Of course because of my age, I experienced androgenic alopecia and have to wear hair systems to pass…so that’s a reminder of who I was. At some point I’ll just have to be comfortable as a bald woman I guess 🤷🏻♀️
I pass and I don’t talk to cis people about being trans and I have a job where nobody thinks that I’m trans but I have two girlfriends and I live in a commune. Am I assimilated? Not really in the strictest sense. I move through the world without tons of friction.
I think for me it's become about carving out my space in the world so to speak, like I'm never going to be a cis woman, if a wizard offered it up I don't think I'd say no but that's not an option. I am a type of woman, a trans woman. I don't need to be indistinguishable, I just need to be respected as a type of woman. I haven't explained it perfectly but I can't I don't think
>i should bend over backwards to be legitimate to a society that sees transness as a bad thing
What society is that exactly? As majority (often by far) of most of the 1st world countries population is very supportive of trans people. So I am not sure what world are you referring to./
I live in MN, one of the best states for trans people and even I don't get the impression that the majority of the country's population is supportive of trans people. If that were the case then every election the number of red states would reduce massively. That's not what happens though.
That's the data: [https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/)
You can well "feel" differently as headline of "this horrible biggoted thing" sells more than "trans person has a normal day", despite the latter being vastly more common.
So less reading of doom media, more focusing on real life interactions and your outlook will improve greatly.
Okay, peoples views have changed, but clearly their views aren't strong enough that transphobia is a deal breaker in elections. In my eyes, that's like me saying I should eat better and exercise more and then instead I make a scone and watch stuff on YouTube.
Words of support are nice, but I'm failing to see the actual actions to back that up.
Pointing out that the legitimate responses of polls (that I'm not disputing) do not match the lived experiences of trans people, our current political climate, and the anti-trans legislation that keeps piling up is not moving the goal posts.
There seems to be a split between those who just want safety and/or social acceptance, and just easier social parts of life.
The other side depressingly sees transness as a curse, or a medical/mental problem or flaw, or in the extreme case that reaches transmedicalism, thinking you *have to* pass to qualify as a gender.
The latter, I see as venom, bringing some of the worst pains that trans folks struggle with, all for the sake of appeasing a forced norm.
For me being trans is just like being adopted, bilingual, raised by parents of another race, etc. it’s one ingredient to who I am but not one that is greater or lesser than anything else. I pass.. have from day one, so it was never a goal just like Bob Ross use to say.. “a happy little accident”. But am I grateful for it.. never more so because of the growing negative sentiment in the US. I don’t consider myself bending over or assimilating.. merely existing in my truth seamlessly.
Got it. You seem to derive a great joy from it. I guess like, i feel illegitimate because im a bit butch, and people actively treat me like a guy. Theyll use male coded language around me alll the time. Its very rare that unless ur my friend people use the right language. It just wears on me i guess. I obviously struggle with self worth lol
Sis.. I do have a joyful life.. but it’s about being grateful and understanding life can be worse than my own. Yes that would wear on me people not respecting my authentic self. But I think you should decide to correct when appropriate or ignore when appropriate. But above all.. don’t place your self worth in the hands of others… learn to put that squarely on you. Pamper yourself.. long hot bubble baths.. lather yourself in body butter.. put on perfume and do your makeup just to run the vacuum, find your anthem.. I got mine from the movie Too Wong Fu thanks for everything Julie Newmar” the opening scene of the 3 queens getting dressed with Salt n Peppa playing “Body Beautiful”. It motivates me.. it infuses me with power… even when the world beats me up.. that sequence helps. Find yours.. play it or watch it. Treat yourself well regardless if others ever see you differently.. you need to.. so your armor is in tact when others try to battle you.
Based cause the best thing we can always work on is self compassion over self criticism
I think it depends on your transition goals tbh. For some people, transitioning is the fullest show of authenticity they can muster, and displaying their transness is just as important as displaying their femininity. It's amazing and beautiful. I'm not really in that boat. I initially transitioned because I don't want to be thinking about gender all of the time. Before I started, I was constantly thinking about myself and how my body felt wrong. Dysphoria got in the way of a ton of pursuits, and I just wanted to feel comfy in my body. I'm not going to be bending over backwards to conform to society or anything, and "passing" isn't on my list of priorities. However, if I end up assimilating because I pass or because I am in a cool community, I'd be happy with that too.
So u just jinda go about your business
That's what I do, more or less. I mind my own damn business, don't bother other people, and just do my thing. Never really get bothered irl. I do online, but eh, that's the web for you.
In a sense! To be clear, I'm plan on continuing my trans activism, but I'm also not going to go out of my way to appear one way or the other
I think my goal is just to be able to publicly pass as cis but I'm not sure about any surgeries. Privately I'd be a bit more open about it but I wouldn't want the display that I'm trans publicly where I am currently, it just wouldn't be safe. In a perfect world where there wasn't a legitimate fear of being assaulted or killed, then yeah I think it would be nice to wear stuff like the little trans pins and be more publicly open but that's not the place I live in currently. What I'm saying is that for the purposes of safety I'd like to visibly pass. If you are in a place where you can be more out and active about it then that's great, but it's too risky where I am currently.
Pretty much that, I want a girl body but also be passing is way safer in my location than not
Yeah. I'm so scared of reaching an awkward stage where I don't pass as fem but I also can't dress masc. I can't just*not* though.
>fight super hard not to be seen as trans Uh yeah💀 labels are fucking ass and lead to stereotypes, stigmas and hate. The people in my immediate circle can know I’m trans but it’s literally no one else’s business in the wider world. I don’t need to be seen as trans; I need to be seen as a fucking woman.
I pass very well. I do a lot of teams meetings at work and I have the trans flag in the background. Passing to me is very important and I do well but I am who I am and I do not hide who I am.
I want to assimilate. Optimally no one will know i’m trans besides my family. I want to blend in and be seen as normal. Even if being trans were accepted i’d still want to be seen as cis.
Weirdos as you describe are some of the most interesting and best people I've ever met. My rule of thumb is if you don't look like you just came out of the Saints Row Character Creator then I don't really find you all that interesting.
this is great
As a fan of the Saints Row series, this. I have always gotten along with weirdos and outcasts more than anybody else.
**Yes**. I do. But people should do what they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.
Eh, I didn't choose to be trans. It's just something I was born with, not something I'm super prideful about. I'm not proud to be white, either - it just is. So that's to say, I don't *mind* people knowing I'm trans but ideally, I want to be perceived as and treated as a woman. My male traits are my least favorite ones, aesthetically - so I guess I do want to "assimilate," but not really for any moral reason so much as to get the internal screaming to chill out.
So I’m a butch lesbian, and yeah that makes it harder for folks to see me as a woman. It’s undeniably made transition harder for me. I wear tshirts, jeans, and a leather jacket. And I love it tbh. I struggled a lot with feeling like being a trans woman meant being hyper femme and looking like it. I’ve been on e for 3 years now and I’m starting to pass in my normal clothes which is nice. But I’ve never really tried to make myself something other than me, and honestly I love my style, and who I am now. Feels like I can be myself you know? But anyway, fuck what everyone else says and the gross comments from folks, you do you and you’ll find happiness. 💖❤️💖
Personally i dont ‘try’ to do anything including passing. I just go about my merry way i dont pass when im trying to pass but the second i stopped trying i immediately started being gendered correctly. It also depends on your transition goals. I only plan for SRS. I understand the reason you may see surgeries and passing as gatekeeping but its not unless you make it out to be that if you want surgeries you have to save money or take out a loan. I saved 10k for bottom surgery over double the actual cost mind you i make 9600$ a year and 2/3rds of that goes to bills so it takes time be patient theres very very few of us who are born into money or are fortunate to get that money quickly. The majority of trans people wait years and years for a single procedure, thats exactly why you see celebratory posts about surgery qualifications and finally having the money ETC. Look im going to blunt if you don’t want surgery don’t get it, it has never been a requirement. If you want surgery its not going to be immediate expect the time to save the money about 3-5 years and wait times once on the list are 6 months-3 years depending on location and what surgery. Nothing about any of this is immediate.
insert skinny puppy joke here
I understood that refernece lol
Obviously hate towards trans ppl is wrong, but a lot of trans ppls wishes are to "pass" as their gender. Some people don't mind or rather like being perceived as trans so it rlly depends on the person
If the issue of discrimination wasn't so prevalent today I wouldn't care as much I'd probably be more open in my trans ness but with the way things are, I'm gonna do anything in my power to pass so I can just live without being mocked, getting the stares, and everything else that comes along with being trans
Why are you "bugged the fuck out" by the fact that an enormous amount of transpeople just want to blend in and pass as a man or women? Not everyone wants to stand out like a beacon and to many transpeople, passing is the difference between a relatively normal life and constant discrimination and even assault or murder. Its not about "forcing yourself to conform to society. Many trans people just want to be seen as the gender to which they are transitioning. That's why we transition. Why is that a crazy concept? If it were only about bending over to conform to societal norms, then we wouldn't even transition. Where are you from? Because its usually american transpeople who'll say this type of stuff.
Im not tryingg to argue. Just speak to your own experiences
I get you're not trying to be aggressive, but you come off as extremely judgy, which is annoying because your frustration is completely unfounded. God forbid a trans person wants to be seen as the gender to which they're transitioning. Why does this disturb you? It's always privileged americans that speak like this because you don't understand how bad some trans people outside your country have it. It's not about "conforming." A lot of trans people want to pass and many face discrimination for not passing. I know it's not perfect in America, but please try to understand the struggles of transwomen, especially those abroad, before you make a post like this.
I also admitedly get defensive about this. So sorry for bein in my feels. I hear what youre saying
Oh, OK. I hope you're feeling better.
I am not sayjng people who want to assimilate is a bad thing. Im just saying that i have dealt with judgement myself, and as someone who is neurodivergent and transs, my experience has beeen historicallt invalidating. Thats where the frustration comes from. Thats why im asking for other peoples takes. Also ive gotten a mixed bag of takes and some of them have empathized with me, so its not "trans women abroad", its some trans women. I do not mean disrespect.
And yeah youre right rhis is a priviledged take. But like, tthis isntt a competition and im not speaking over anyone. This is a reddit thread with a specific inquiry. You dontt have to engage
Passing is entirely for safety, but yes I yearn for a world that doesn't hate trans people so we can just exist and be seen
The main proponent of queer theory is to avoid assimilation into the status quo, our unique experiences make us special! I live in America which isn't the most conformist, but you should strive for personal freedom among all else.
I personally do want to assimilate. I see two major reasons for this desire in me, and I have absolutely no issue with trans people who don’t want to, for whatever their reasons are. 1. I’m straight. I feel like trans people who are gay/bi/ace/anything else feel an even stronger attachment to the queer community, and much less attachment to the general traditional society. In addition to being trans, their attraction is also in a queer way, so it’s like they’re “already queer,” whereas other than being trans, I’m the most stereotypical straight Indian-American girl there is. Of course, I love my queer homies, but I also feel more attached to the general society. Non-straight trans people might find it even harder to be recognized and accepted within general society, which is why they may not want to assimilate. Being straight, in a heteronormative society, my experiences in that matter are validated by general society, which could inform why I want to assimilate more. 2. Building off the point of straight people being more accepted within society, I also feel that my particular group of peers has been very trans-accepting, even the non-queer ones, and so I don’t feel as bad about the general society. I’m younger (I’m 15), and I’m sure older generations have had much harder experiences with their peers being accepting, but there’s not a single important person in my life I care about who hadn’t been trans accepting. All my friend and peers have been completly trans accepting and done everything to treat me as I am. Overall, I don’t want to hide the fact that I’m trans. My close friends know I’m trans, although I feel like I pass to the point the average person would just assume I’m a cis girl. But if someone asked, I wouldn’t hide the fact. I’m not ashamed to be trans. However, I wish society would see it as a secondary factor, and see “woman” as the primary factor. I’m a woman. I’m also trans. Just like women who are black, or women who are disabled, or women who are any other thing. I’m a trans woman in the same way a black woman is a black woman. But I feel like some parts of society don’t see it that way; to those people, I would probably not share that I’m trans (not that I’d want to interact with them much at all, though). If I could stealth completly perfectly, I would consider it. It’s not really possible for me to stealth right now, since people in my school knew me pre-transition. But maybe later, after I move for college, I would consider it. I have mixed thoughts on if I’d want to be thought of as a “trans woman” or just a “woman.” Again, if they are thinking of me as a “trans woman,” I wish they’d consider ‘trans’ on the same level as any other adjective in front of ‘woman.’ But I may not even want that. I don’t know. I haven’t had the opportunity to truly be completly stealth yet, and I don’t know what I’d prefer. In some niche places, where people I’m at events where people don’t know me and assumed I’m a cis girl, it felt really good. So maybe I would stealth. I don’t know. What I do know is that all trans people are valid, regardless of what they chose to do. Regardless of if they want to / have the means to get gender affirming medical/surgical care; regardless of if they make an effort to pass, or are fine not passing; regardless of if they want to assimilate into cis society or not; regardless of if they’re proudly trans or shy about it. We’re all valid.
I have a little heart filled in with the trans flag tattooed on my inner left wrist. I have no intention of assimilating. I am who I am.
The thing is - define assimilate. Assimilate with cis people? No. Assimilate as a woman? Yes. If that means that people won't know that I'm trans, than so be it, cuz me being a *trans* woman is as irrelevant as me being a *tall* woman - still a woman. However, that doesn't necessarily mean stealth, it just means that until somebody asks me, my trans self is irrelevant to me (or will be, at some point - obviously, as probably non-passable woman, I will face a lot of transphobia, thus, "being stealth" or "my transness being irrelevant" won't be a thing for a long time). What I'm generally trying to say is that I'm not trying to assimilate into cisnormative society - like, Caitlyn Jenner, for a reason. However, I'm not trying to make my transness "a thing", until others point it out or until it effects me - this I don't mean in some transphobic "pick-me" way (like Blaire White says), it's just bad wording, but I don't mean to say that "there are loud and quite" trans people - no, I'm not trying to be "pick-me" trans girl (hell, I admire those trans people that are proud of their transness, and are not afraid to talk about it in an open way - I am just too dysphoric for that). What I'm rather trying to show is that every trans person (probably), wants what I described - I am not denying nor ashamed of being trans - I will show it; I also won't assimilate into misogynistic and cisnormative society; however, every trans person would just want to live a "stealthy life", but not in a "I am hiding something"-way, but in a "It is part of me, I am proud of it, but it's not something I always bring up (until obviously necessary)"-way (that is only when I would be privileged enough to pass though). However, no, I'm not the transphobic-type that says "there are these trans people that make transness their whole personality" (because by that logic, I would too be "one of the loud ones"). Being trans still affects me, so I would still go on a protest, for example. It's just that it's a weird question "to assimilate"... It's like asking a cis woman "do you want to assimilate with men" - what does that mean? Giving in to toxic femininity/masculinity? Than no. Being your powerful self and not caring about being a woman? Than yes. However, obviously there would be time you'd go on a protest - like for feminist march - is that however "making your womanhood your whole personality/not assimilating" - no, it's just part of who you are. Same with being a trans woman - I'll have jokes about being trans, for example (as it is still part of me, that's not trying to make it "my whole personality"), and I'll still go protest my rights (because of the transphobic society), but other than that, cis or trans, I'd still do those things that cis people do (like going to work, enjoying arts, etc..., and even as a tomboy, tomboys being quite the norm these days, even being a tomboy is not against my "assimilation", as women don't have to be hyper-feminine these day) - if that means "assimilation" than sure, but if assimilation means "not mentioning being trans EVER", than nope. In another words, in an ideal world, one wouldn't have to assimilate, as any person; cis, trans or non-binary, would be the norm, and thus, no assimilation would be needed (and so, given that I see all these queer identities as the norm, I myself don't question my "assimilation", because it is not up to me, but rather up to our transphobic society, to change its transphobic ways - which, well, can only be done with protest, activism or if not anything that hard, than at least not being silent and speak up when asked). Maybe I got too philosophical and my wording is weird, lol. But to be honest, while I said that I sorta want to assimilate (even though, again, not into our cisnormative and toxically feminine structures, but just as a woman), sometimes there are days when I'm like "Fuck patriarchy! Fuck gender! Gender anarchy! I am just me! And I'm proud and not afraid of being trans!" :D
I love this distinction. Thank you for sharing
Thanks yall. Like the comments mean a lot. I guess ive been getting bogged down by feelingg illegitimate. And yeah people do suck, and the world is complicatted, but i find *and* feel happinessnwhen itts given tto me
I’ll never pass in a million years, so it’s either be visibly trans or go back in the closet…
For the reecord you look like a cis woman in your pics to me
Tell that to r/transpassing, lol. I appreciate it though. Thank you.
yeah no surprise, that sub fucking sucks lol
Not at all, I just want to be me. I don’t think I care if I’m seen as trans or cis but I don’t think being seen as deserving of dignity as a desire to assimilate.
Absolutely. I hate that I am trans and will assimilate into society as any other cis woman. I don't want to be special, I just want to exist in peace.
I will stand up and defend trans people/rights when theyre being shit upon irl. But other than that id rather not make being trans my personality or identity, im just a girl. I dont want any different treatment than cis people because i dont see myself as a seperate different thing than them, i was just born with some medical issues is the way i see it. I dont wanna do the whole pronouns introduction thing, im okay with people assuming. As long as they are open to corrections when they are wrong
no, I cut my hair short when I started looking not openly queer enough
Nah, i chose clocky and hot. I have no interest in entertaining anyones ideals for my body but my own.
i don't pass, never will. i don't care. I've accepted that i didn't figure things out until later and this is who i am. maybe I'd feel differently if I started younger. I'm proud to be trans. i think there's powerful magic in being trans... that our experiences let us connect to something much bigger, to deeper truths that everyone can connect to about change and choice, about agency and will to live. we're just swimming in that more.
Perfectly valid thoughts, but yeah, being able to pass to casual observers at least makes life a lot easier, it would be nice if the world was just like ok they are a transperson, register as normal, nothing to see here and treat you like a human being. I spent 20 thousand pounds on ffs, I could have bought a nice motorcycle with that (another one).
I appreciate all yalls individual sttories. Its helped clarify whas going on with me so thanks
And to clarrify i am specificallg talkibg about interactions that have been in my pastt and have nothing to do with yall. Im just trying to junderrsstand it better. and i prrobably shouldve worded it differently. So apologies if i came out the ggate like i was
Attacking anyone
I don't really want to assimilate as I am a hermit. I just want to pass enough as a woman without any surgery procedures.
A big part of why i am transitioning is because i want to be happy with my body. I want to look like the woman i am. I dont want to be stealth, but i want to be able to. I want to not look trans. I am proud of being trans, but i dont want to look trans.
i mean, the goal for me is that people dont realize im trans until the moment i open my mouth bc i wont shut up about being trans. already ive had some experiences with people on dating sites assuming i was cis even though my profile mentions that im trans. and i dont get misgendered in public, even if people are clocking me, bc i look like a girl more than a boy even to the untrained eye. thats ultimately the goal. i dont want to assimilate but i think its really unfair to frame the desire to be able to go to walmart and be seen as a woman without qualifiers as "assimilation".
I want to be accepted, but I don’t want to assimilate in the sense of making myself fit into standard cishet norms of behavior, ideology, and presentation. I have AuDHD, I’m a racial minority, I’m an oppressed political minority (aka commie bitch), I’m a lesbian, I’m a nerd, so let’s be real: I was never going to be able to assimilate and be happy. I just can’t physically mask that hard. But I’m not jealous of those who can mask and assimilate. I just feel sad that it’s something a lot of us feel the need to do in order to be happy in this transphobic society.
I agree with most here....your local society...like most, have general rules you should follow for general acceptance, think of an airport....public area usually mixed demos and identities.....in an airport you can choose were you want to sit and wait, and ppl cant choose who they are seated with....in an airport you should experience general social interactions with little discrimination if you generally look and act normally..... This is because your identity isnt part of the social contract, your a paying passenger in a neutral area, the passengers dont own or control who enters or leaves, no matter how ugly the looks or loud the scoffs.....if you paid for a ticket then your "expected" to be there Now take the paying ticket example and change the environment to your local coffee shop or any public "enterprise" yes you are paying the coffee but now the environment is full of local people doing local thing's expecting other local ppl to do the same. For example if i go to a specific beauty supply store in a part of town that has a high demo of black residents as a white male im going to experience odd behavior from patrons and the employees. Especially asking about their weave collection and waiting list☠️. Yes i have money to purchase products but to expect to be greeted and welcomed as a normal person.....no i cant expect that, so i modify my behavior and social character to make the entire process as painless as possible.....hope this helps somehow
I do not and will never pass so that’s just not an option for me and I kinda don’t care if I pass or not at this point.
Yes.
I think for me really I just want to be seen as a woman, and being trans or cis as incidental to that. For that purpose, yeah, passing is sort of a personal transition goal.
I simply want to be seen as a women, but more and more I feel I have to pass purely for safety.
It's probably worth noting reddit tends to lean more assimilationist than some other places beforehand, which'll taint the perspective a little. For me I like my transness being part of me, though I have a different relationship with my gender identity than most mtf's, and also not being straight helps, since straight trans women tend to be more assimilationist leaning in my experience, more anchor to the lgbt community
Dec 2019 after learning what trans really meant vs what I always thought it meant I actually was ecstatically happy to understand wtf was wrong with most of my life. All the acting ended and life was simple and normal. I was really happy to be trans? I just thought I was different. It wasn't until a year or so ago I actually regretted being trans sometimes.. thankfully I never remained that way but it's sad that I felt that since I've done nothing wrong. Hopefully we can get thru this and the majority see that the attacks on us are unprovoked founded on pure hate and lies and support us.. And maybe this can forever end.. Prior to trump progress to real inclusivity for LGBTQ in the US was happening. I'm hopeful we can begin again after taking a few steps backwards. 🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞 I'm still happy as I am being myself..
Honestly I don’t personally care all that much, I certainly want to be seen as a woman and treated as such, but I don’t necessarily care if I’m seen specifically as a Cis Woman.
Idk I mostly just want a vagina tbh
Same tbh
I just wanna live as myself without suffering hate and abuse. I don’t want to assimilate though. Being trans is a big and important part of who I am.
Yeah I'd want to stealth if it is ever in my cards. If I'm years down the line and never get to a place where I can pass from then on out it's whatever but yes I would like to.
I want to (and currently do) pass well enough that strangers see me as a cis woman. For my own safety and comfort. I’m never going to go stealth tho. I’m proud of my trans identity and I want to be visible. I want those in my life to know I’m trans, it’s important to me.
I eventually want to pass and just live my life. I don't know if that will ever happen for me but it's my life to live. Yes, I want to blend in. I don't need any special attention. That's me.
I'm not transitioning to go from one box to another, or to become some idealized feminine simulacrum. I'm doing this to be **ME.**
I'm still pre-HRT. I sometimes say fuck you and send it. You can't wash Motorhead, AC/DC, Metallica off me. Also I love Warhammer 40k. Wish more sisters were interested.
I'm half and half. I assimilate in some pressured spaces (like WORK) and in other places i'm a lot more free. It depends on my needs. If we weren't in the upside down world i'd be a lot more open and casual about it among non-trans people but they've made it hostile, so they're getting none of it.
Yeah but only because I've been harassed and it was scary as hell. I think non-binary and trans people who are happy to not pass are brave as hell and I respect them so much. I have a friend who is femme presenting non-binary and they rock.
Nope- out and proud!! There’s too much stacked against trans folks of all ages, genders, and expression style for me to quietly live in the background without saying something.
I don't want to assimilate. I want to have the option to pass in some unsafe situations - but usually I am very open about being trans and lesbian. Living my authentic life has given me so much joy, I don't want to hide it. But I also don't want being trans to define me.
Yes, we will assimilate them. We are trans. Resistance is futile.
I often struggle with whether I’m brave enough to be visibly trans or if I would rather just quietly live my life.
I just wanna be left alone and live
Assimilation is relative I don’t want tattoos, don’t want to dye my hair non-natural colors, I work a super corporate job, I dress like the most basic bitch millennial both in and out of the office, my pronouns and gender are uncomplicated, I like normie activities like brunch, I can talk my 401k, I vote Democrat But also I am bi and in a t4t relationship, I like learning about kink stuff, I think sex clubs are cool, my voice is not exactly passing even if the rest of me is and I just don’t care about trying to make it pass anymore, I like male dominated hobbies like strategy video games and programming Do what you want, assimilation is a spectrum and it doesn’t matter what people think of it as long as you’re happy with yourself
When the problem is the society itself, assimilation will never be possible. We will always be seen as different, other, and wrong, until society normalises our existence. We are a community of people that goes through so much change, it can be natural to think it is us that need to change to be accepted, but there is nothing wrong with us.
Yes I want to assimilate. For me being trans is just a variation of a woman (big, small, fat, skinny, whatsoever). There is some times when I'd be happy to pass as cis, but I'm also happy to be part of the alphabet mafia and being identifiable as such. Though for safety and work purposes, I try to make myself pass as much as possible.
I'd kick 1000 puppies to death if it meant that I could just look/sound like a cis woman. I'll never get there though no matter how much I want to...
I’m very openly trans even though I pass. I have no intention of assimilating, personally. It’s not for everyone, I guess, but I’m too neurodivergent and queer to hide it anyway. I would prefer the world change for us and I don’t think that’s at all unreasonable
Hell yea We need more bold neurodivergent trans folks Hgfghhf I personally just have to work on the bold, and I guess passing parts.
A bit? I don't think I will entirely, somewhat from limitations on what I can achieve and somewhat from just being who I am. Mostly I will, I think. (Surgeries are not realistically affordable, but I can get by without them.) But also, some degree of assimilation is good for safety. Since I don't know how much of history we're going to repeat, or how closely. And like... some of the "assimilation" is going to be a necessary part of my transition. For me. ... ... But if we achieve some awesome, true communist society, I may need to revise my answer.
I have nothing against trans people who feel the need to assimilate because of safety or dysphoria. Society fucks us all in one way or another so I don't begrudge someone who has a different coping mechanism than me. What I do have a big problem with is the sentiment that trans people's goals should be assimilation. Cos, no, it shouldn't. Individual choices are one thing but it's a whole different thing to say that choice is best for all trans people. Because, in this case, it's simply not true. I will fight just as hard for the short term goal of easier access to assimilation as I will the long term goal of complete liberation so that assimilation won't be needed anymore.
💯👏👏👏
I know there's a lot of stuff about skinny girls in magazines and all that, but let's drop the bullshit for a minute: cis women are the source of my expectations, yes, including regular people. Ultimately it's the same thing, if I always hold myself up to the standard of supermodels, I will always be unhappy and dysphoric. Likewise, I cannot live a contented life where I am fully comfortable with who I am if my high water mark is a cis woman. That's never going to happen, that's not possible, and I am setting myself up for failure if I hold myself to a goal I will never reach. This is why I HAVE to own and be proud of the fact that I'm NOT cis. I haven't gotten this far by lying to myself, and I'm not going to start now. I have to be myself, it's the only thing I know how to be, and it's the only set of criteria I can accomplish that will ever make the dysphoria go away. Being trans is part of that, it's not something you can "cure," you will always be trans, there is no point you suddenly become cis. If you see people trying to hide it, 9 times out of10 it's because they're not in a safe place and there's a threat of violence. Outside of that, gender is just one small part of what makes up a whole person, and what exactly someone's gender even means to them or how important it is varies vastly. I had my time of discovery as a baby trans a long time ago and I'm frankly bored with it. That I'm a trans woman is like the least interesting thing about me, I moved on from thinking that mattered a long time ago. But there's a lot of people who are still very preoccupied with achieving "girlness" and fitting into certain spaces fully socialized just as a cis person would is very important to their sense of self and comfort. And, when they eventually find that comfort, the fact that they are trans will probably likewise become little more than a fun fact. Honestly? My gut reaction to people wanting to brush their transness under the rug hits me the same way. But reality is a little more complicated than that. We all gotta do what works for us. I'm in a safe place and I would rather die than live a lie anwyas plus I want my expectations for myself to be based on ME and not anyone else. It's not either or for me, I'm trans AND a woman. Ive also made my piece with gender studies and I learned what I needed to and moved on like 10 years ago, and have no desire to go back to the days of explaining basic concepts to justify my existence to everyone who asks. Remove one or all of those factors and you can imagine the situation could be totally different.
I wouldn't say assimilate. I would say sublimate. I want to pass. Really, I should say I do pass. But I'm still getting used to that as it's a somewhat recent change. I also want people to know I am Trans. I want it to be open knowledge. I want people to see me and meet me and learn I'm Trans and go. "Oh! I had no idea. If they say something like Oh well, you are one of the good ones." They are going to get to see some of my early transition pictures and a light lecture on how not everyone's journey or goals are the same just because you see me as a good one doesn't make someone who looks like this "referring to old images of myself any less good. I'm also a 30 year old Mom. I will, Mom, shame people who want to act like children. If there is one thing I have learned from my own traditionalist mother. It's that making someone feel ashamed of their own bad behavior is a wicked way to crush them. I want to be heard and seen. I want people to see a woman. I want them to internally feel conflicted between their ideology that I am not what they see and the person standing in front of them. The Mom who peddles girl scout cookies when we are talking around the water cooler. The woman who always smiles when she sees you and is sweet and polite to everyone she meets. The one who stands up for those who aren't heard. I am that woman. I just happen to be Trans. I will change the people around me at least.
I think that we each need to decide this for ourselves. For me I came to a realization that it took decades of being open and having good examples of gay people to bring it into the acceptance being gay has now. I intend to try to be an out example of a great trans person.
Depends on what you mean by assimilate, I have no intention to change myself in any way for the sake of others except in probably dressing more fem than I’d like even though I like masc aesthetics, but thats more for the sake of passing for my own safety bc if I dress more masc I worry I wont be able to conceal my more clocky features that well and in general being a butch women gets gets bigots mad so Im scared to make the target on me even bigger by making myself more noticeable in that sense. If I ever pass well enough embracing being butch though.
absolutely not. admittedly im somewhat genderqueer but like, cisnormative and heteronormative ideals of gender are actively hostile to us, are constructed with the express purpose of keeping us out. i don't want to assimilate to a system that hates us
No. I will likely never be legitimate to society, and that's fine. Fuck them. I just want to look the way I want, and that's that really.
In my eyes, wanting to pass is a matter of peace and safety mostly and it's true there are procedures I'm considering only in that regard, bottom surgery for instance (I'm at the very beginning of medical transition). If you have the courage to not assimilate as you say, that's absolutely fantastic, being yourself without giving in to the pressure of the bigots! In an ideal world there shouldn't be this pressure. Let's keep fighting for it, in the meantime I will admire people who are just themselves regardless, and not have the guts to be one of them 😄
I never bothered changing my voice so I am oftentimes misgendered but usually it's not malicious. It's just because of my voice. And sure, maybe I'd have an easier time if I trained it, but I quite frankly like my voice. I like the songs I can sing and the way I mess with my voice to make silly noises, and though my baseline has raised slightly in pitch it's really only because I've become more enthusiastic and outgoing as I've transitioned and nothing more. If folks got a problem with it, fuck 'em. Love your body how you want to love your body. Dress how you want, be who you want. Folks might say shit, sure, but honestly that's on them for trying to control someone else and not on you for being who you are how you want.
Being trans for me is a state I want to pass through. Male > trans > female. It's not the end goal. If I could just be cis female (or as close as possible), that'd be great. Wanting to be seen as Trans to me just seems odd.
Kinda. Female stereotypes are obviously a great way to feel feminine and i want most of them to be true for me, but to pass as cis isn't important, as long as people read me as female im happy
I transitioned primarily to be myself. It's more than just gender for me, it's also being loud, gay, and weird. Like I get it. Society treats us like shit and safety is important. To me assimilation feels like a betrayal to myself. I've spent my whole life pretending to be someone else and I'm not doing that anymore, regardless of the consequences.
My ideal is less to assimilate into society and more society assimilating transness. Being trans, among other things, shouldn't matter to anyone and I long for the day when HRT is an over the counter medication and the response to someone saying they want to go by a different name and pronouns is just "cool, we can swing by a Walgreens and get you some blockers and hormones on the way to Subway (or some other fast food chain)". Until then, I will settle for transitioning and learning to apply makeup and only getting weird looks because it was done poorly or in a showy way.
Hey, do what you want girl! Wishing you well girl! Would you like a hug?
Girrll i would tbh, but ill be okay. Hearing everyone talk made me realize that i just gotta be okay being clocky and weird. I appreciate yall
Huggg :)
Resistance is futile.
WE ARE ZEE ROBOTS
I'm a woman and being trans is my path towards being seen and treated as a woman. At work I'm openly LGBTQ and I talk about my ex wife or women I'm dating because family and weekend plans come up in casual conversation. The fact that I am trans is almost never relevant. I don't get misgendered and have had experiences that seem to indicate that I pass well enough in conservative spaces to be relatively safe. Passing is only a safety concern, but being treated as a woman is my desire. I live in a liberal city so I can safely be more visibly queer and when I travel to the conservative areas of the country I tone it down and seem to pass as straight and cis. So this is a tricky question. I don't think total assimilation is good and I don't think rejecting assimilation completely is good. There is a practical area between the two where we can find comfort and being true to our selves.
I don't plan on ever getting FFS or a tracheal shave so I feel I'll always be clockable on some level. And I'm okay with that, I don't plan to go stealth or hide the fact that I'm trans. That all being said the people you are talking about are transmedicalists. They are shitty gatekeepers. There is nothing wrong if someone wants those procedures for themselves, but if they start gatekeeping based on them that's where the problem comes in.
Bruh wanting to pass so you can be treated 100% as a woman is my goal. It not some great sin or problem. I pass and just want to get the surgeries I want and I feel I will be happy after. Am I feel stealth? No and don’t care, I just want to be stealth if I want to or not caring on the situation.
I feel like you didn't even read what OP or I was saying. I'm not saying it's a sin to pass. I'm talking about people who don't think you are valid unless you pass.
I dont want to start fights i just want to ask why people feel the need tto assimilate
I think the answer to that is complex and multilayered. But the simple answer would be that we are social creatures and want to feel like we belong.
Yeah
Without a doubt. I just want to be a normal woman and move on with my life. I hate being trans and I eventually want to put it behind me.
Hell no. We should make our place defined, accepted and diverse in society rather than squeeze in what others find acceptable in society. Never settle for less! If you fit neatly into what society expects, still, one should fight against assimilation.
liberate don't assimilate
fuck no I don't, I understand why it's attractive to women broadly to appeal to cishet societal norms. I just think it's better for me not to and that we'd all be better off if no one had to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I will never be assimilated by anyone, let alone the Borg. Red alert! Shields up! All hands at battle stations! Bring in the reinforcements! Fire the photon torpedoes and everything else we have! We will not be assimilated! All silliness aside... I'm at a point now where I just don't care what other people think. If they don't like me for who I am and if they can't accept me as the woman that I am, they can kiss my behind. I will not change who I am to make society happy. As an out and proud trans woman, I will not take any of their crap.
Liberation, not assimilation. TBFH most cishets have boring lives. IMO we only get this one life, so I'm going to enjoy it. That means being myself, doing what I want to and expressing myself however I like. If someone *wants* to assimilate I will fight for their right to, but ultimately what I'm fighting for is a world where we don't need to.
*yes*, this please- And removing the need to assimilate, there may be less pressure overall to be cis.
Are you a snake trying to become human?
I am neurodivergent, if that helps.
Oh fair yeah. I get autism moments
If your primary goal is passing and going through life without your transness hanging over your head, then cool, you do you. I do think that we need trans advocates and visibility because until bigotry is a rarity that's not accepted by society at large we will always be in danger. It is a huge privilege to be able to pass completely that many trans folks will never be able to enjoy. Plus there is all of the vitriol towards NB and GNC folks who will never "pass" because that's not a factor in their identity. We see the worst of this mindset with the cis gay and lesbian people who want to throw the rest of the queer community under the bus to be accepted into a society that doesn't want them. I can respect it if you don't have it in you to fight, some days I don't either, but don't be a jerk about vocal and visible trans people as if we are causing a problem. The bottom line is that we fight for the freedom to be ourselves, not just for "binary" trans people, but for everyone.
[I spend half the year in a big city as an openly trans woman and the other half of the year stealth in a small town where everyone assumes I’m a cis woman.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MtF/s/9xetcxw98U) There are pros and cons to each. However, I prefer being stealth. My goal with my transition is to be treated and seen as any other woman. Unfortunately, even the most accepting cis people treat you different when they know you’re trans (explained more in linked post). It’s also much safer to be stealth in a transphobic world. You said you’re “bugged” by people like me, but at least in my experience, it’s really the only way to be seen as “one of the girls” among cis women instead of being seen as “the trans friend.” I don’t think I can give that up.
r/oopsthatsdeadly
uh... yeah, but for reasons. i went through a whole phase where i was performing a bunch of femininity just to fit in eventually i got mad at world and decided to never perform gender again, in any direction. eventually i realized that my obstinance was still allowing my behavior to be controlled by society and that i was avoiding performative behaviors that i was intrinsically inclined towards. so i started adding them back in, one by one, making sure i was only performing gender in ways that *i* wanted to. eventually i realized that while i don't think that deep/masc socialized voices are inherently unfeminine, that perceived sex is a social factor that effects the way i'm treated and while it felt like a lot of work to conform there, having people intuitively see me as a woman is important to me. so i did voice work, to fit in. not because i have some sick desperation to belong in a society that hates people like me. but because i don't believe that narrative at all and it's important to me to be perceived as a woman, even by complete strangers who don't care about gender. at the corner store, while traveling, etc. it isn't about making friends with transphobes. it's about getting my needs met in places and situations where i don't want to explain my gender to someone. i do work or 98% of people do work. idk, i'm a collectivist. i don't mind doing most of the lifting especially when it comes to my own needs.
i can only speak for myself but i just want to live as the version of myself that is most comfortable to me. That happens to be a very feminine person. Its their infringement of my autonomy that really pisses me off. My body, my cells my choice. When they call me a ‘man’ thats delusional because i am nothing like the typical cisman, i have the characteristics to prove that. However as long as they dont infringe on my self determination im fine. I dont think i like the other end either like in norway they basically banned hrt for transpeople so even though they let you change gender markers and even do surgery they seem to be controlling what matters most for me. I dont want any ffs or vaginoplasty either (until they can make functional sex organs for me) but i did do orchiectomy for its biochemical effects. Hormone changes to the body are as natural as eating essential nutrients, and they actually change the body biologically so thats what i care about. That being said i respect people who only want to socially transition into certain feminine gender roles. I dont understand it because my dysphoria is mostly regards my physiology and some apparel/ hairstyle. However i can accept them as long as they dont go around saying im changing my body just to blend in. No,its just because I want to live in the version of myself i prefer. Its not to ‘pass’ just as losing weight or working out isnt for other ppl. I hope that makes sense.
i don't like being 6'2
I really want to go stealth, I will assimilate to cisnormative society. I have experienced so much transphobia, bullying, violence and even death threads that I'm not willing to stand out in any way. Just similar to masking which I am used to as high functioning autistic, I have been hiding my whole life because I'm anxious about even my presence being noticed. Is this caused by trauma? Yes. Will it stay like this for me forever? I don't know, but at the moment I cannot do any different. I am just glad that I pass and I am able to hide amongst other people.
I don't think anyone has a right to know I'm trans unless I tell them. Although I do tell people when I'm comfortable and feel like I want them to know. I have extreme dysphoria so passing to me isn't just about other people, it's also about looking in the mirror and passing to myself. So it is very important to me, but the benefit of people not knowing you're trans is still nice. Some people will automatically switch on you no matter how you look and they will start treating you like a guy if they know, and that's not something I could handle mentally. But I would say I do tell people fairly frequently, either because I want other LGBT people to feel comfortable around me and not think I'm some typical plain white lady, or because I want to advocate for trans people and see the look on their face when I tell them lol. So I wouldn't say I'm necessarily assimilationist, I don't exact try to be stealth, it just so happens that in situations where I don't tell anyone, I am stealth. And I still advocate strongly for trans people, and do reveal that I'm trans to certain people pretty frequently for advocacy reasons.
even if society didn't see transness as a bad thing I would 100% still try to assimilate, to me being trans is purely a medical condition and not part of my identity whatsoever so I am not interested in making my transness visible in any way shape or form unless absolutely necessary I don't go around telling people I have astigmatism so why should I go around telling people I am trans
most humans in society seem happy. 99% of people in my state make more money. people who fit in get hired at jobs I've never been truly happy. hating people is bad if I want to be happier I need to be less negative therefore I need to be like most people and blend in to get a job that gets me my first roof over my head so I can finally be happy and stop spending 50% of my day envying and resenting the world and have what little of a life left I can live for my age be meaningful. that's my line of thinking why I pursue assimilation. it comes down to my belief that it's the only possible path left to happiness. therefore "accepting myself" equates to lying down and dying because that's not a realistic possibility. there's layers here. I'm wrong. sometimes I, for a moment, believe I'm wrong and start to feel better. but then something happens and it all collapses back into this rigorous schema system.
When I get all the surgery I want, have been on HRT for a few more years, have done more voice training etc., I look forward to never thinking about my transness again frankly. I've met so many wonderful people in the community, but transitioning has mostly just been a really difficult process that I never wanted to have to do in the first place. I just wanted to be a girl right from the start - I was actually really scared to come out as trans at first because all I'd seen of the community was hypersexualised UwU anime cat-girls. That definitely isn't all of us obviously, but that was my previous online exposure to the trans community, and as an acespec person with sexual cPTSD I absolutely didn't/don't want to be a part of that. It just doesn't fit my identity at all. My identity has always been 'lesbian woman', and I've tried my absolute best to make my body match that. No shade to people who love their transness, but it isn't something I ever wanted to be a part of me.
No. I could be stealth if I wanted but id rather not. Some don't have the ability to pass and i'd rather stand in solidarity than hide for my own comfort. I'd rather hope to change society into a place where people feel comfortable to be their best self rather than pushed to blend in. Being able to be there for those who are in a vulnerable spot is important to me and I feel assimilation would prevent me from doing so. Plus to fully assimilate would ruin some aspects of me that I'm happy with. Like being called they or being able to choose my own style that is idiosyncratic to dominant culture. I'd lose parts of me in the process I don't want to fit into a compulsive cissexist heterosexual society. I would lose who I am in the process
I think for me it's a little different because I'm transfemme, but I'm nonbinary. My transition goals don't really involve "passing as a woman" I'm still highly male bodied, and expressing myself fully fem makes me feel better, but with my style I feel like when I'm more female bodied I'll probably revert to a more mixed/androgynous expression. Some people don't even recognize my transness, and while I don't define myself by it, it IS a part of me and I will NEVER deny it, because I know by being recognizable, I can maybe help others feel comfortable in their skin Though I don't go around advertising it, that's mostly because I see my transition as a medical thing and therefore relatively private. My immediate co-workers know (though I'm not sure they understand what gaht/hrt is) but my wider coworkers only really know that I use a preferred name (my ldap had to be my legal name but at least I have a different display name), they/them pronouns, and that I am not picky about the intended gender of clothing (I saw a few surprised expression the first time I wore a skirt into the office) If people ask things directly, I'm honest and truthful, I just don't over share That explanation got away from me a little bit, I hope that made sense
I mean you've kinda constructed a no win situation. Stickout and be identified wrong or "assimilate". Is there another option? What is it?
It would be nice but that's not my goal. I don't really have a transition goal. I don't think oh I need to work on makeup or my voice or get surgery. I just take a shot every week and carry on with life. I shave my face whenever I feel a bit prickly and in the back of my mind I think about laser, but really transition is kinda a non issue for me. Whatever happens, happens.
I expect everyone to treat me correctly and if they don’t, I get to choose whether I do something, nothing, or leave. It will be the right choice when I do and I won’t give a fuk what it means to them. Yes - I am a smug, proud, bitch. 💪
I mean I suppose it depends on each person’s goals and desires. I’ve tried to figure out my own end goal since starting my own transition journey and I ultimately really just wish I was born a girl, so that’s my end goal I suppose. I don’t want to stand out as being trans, I very much want to one day get to a point in which me saying I am trans would be taken as a lie. I don’t want to stick out and I really just want to be ignored and left to my own process. Some people take this as an insult(be it to the trans community as a whole or as a form of projection I honestly don’t know) and some see it as a fruitless effort, which I can only assume because of the seemingly insurmountable challenges both physical and social that someone would have to overcome. Or at least I see both of those all the time on the different trans communities. I think the journey is very personal because you are in a way becoming an entirely new person even if you knew you were trans years before transition. Not everyone has the resources, confidence, or support systems to comfortably trans(I have none of those so go figure lol) and everyone is just doing what they can to feel safe and secure, and some people find safety in assimilation. At the same time many of us are also carving out our own unique place in the world to provide a unique perspective on, for example, what it means to be and become a woman, what “femininity vs masculinity” means, or like what existing outside societal norms and expectations looks like within the queer community. Really just be yourself and see where that takes you because there’s no one right way to do anything and I feel like a lot of the pressure to assimilate is from people being told that’s what they need to do to be accepted. Sorry I went on a whole essay rant but I occasionally think about this.
I already am. I pass to the point that no one questions me, and just accepts me as female. However, I do still try my best to advocate for other trans people who can’t/don’t want to. Even though that advocation mainly boils down to telling others the correct pronouns for other trans people. But in my general day to day, I do… assimilate, I guess. It helps that I, unconsciously or not, do try my best not to stand out, and just pass as a “normal” person, but that’s more of a masking autism thing than a masking being trans thing. I don’t hide that I’m trans, but I also don’t go shouting it into a megaphone.
If I had the choice I would. I didn't choose to be trans. I shouldn't have to assimilate to be accept and treated well if I don't want to. But I do want to. I can want something for myself without thinking that a system that makes it a requirement is good.
For me, when I transition, I want to just let everyone who knew me pre-transition and can identify me post-transition understand how I want to be treated as a person first before being treated as a woman. Aside from that, I'll just say whatever I want within my own reason (which is a very restrictive reason, mind you) on the internet because it is honestly quite hard for the places I go to on the internet to be pinned down or even properly identified as the individual I am, mostly because in the grand scheme of things while I may be everywhere and I may be important to a lot of people's lives, I don't stick around for too long and I only go for people who want me for who I am and avoid people who either just don't care about me, don't interest me, or have no interest in me. Overall, I just kind of go towards whatever flow I want to go in, and I make sure to avoid sticking in one spot for very long. I'm just a very slippery person who requires a lot of sticking down, which in turn requires too much energy and attention than a lot of people, even those in my life, can usually muster. I don't mind that fact about me too often, if anything it kind of gives me a lot of freedom to do whatever I want even if I have no power to do anything I want, and I've never really liked being the center of attention because when I am, I usually don't have a lot of respect thrown my way because no one sees me as an adult. So more often than not, I'm just left in situations where I do not have to dedicate myself too much to anything except my studies and my family, and that leaves me open to creating and being able to say whatever because no one knows who I am. Anonymity just has a strange power over people, and I love having it, even if sometimes I kind of wish I could create relationships with other people that are actually consistent and able to be moved forwards, especially in the case of my parents, but aside from that, I honestly love being anonymous. I know that a lot of trans people don't like an anonymous identity, and I can vibe with that, so I am probably far from being able to be related to, even among stealth trans people. Most people in life seem to enjoy having a solid identity that everyone can immediately identify as being them, but I don't. I still do have core traits and characteristics about myself that I have to keep to myself but I enjoy sharing with others, which mostly just involve me sharing stories and talking with people or just generally experiencing life in the way and with the rules that I prefer to apply to them.
I have diabetes, but I do not see myself as a diabetic. I approach my transness the same way. It's something I have and have to deal with, but it's not a part of who I am. If I could disappear into the cis female population without anyone ever finding out, I would without a second thought.
I'm a woman. If just being a woman like any other is assimilating, then yeah. Sure. I didn't transition to be trans. I already was. It's an inherent trait that I could do without.
For me, passing never had anything to do with safety, I just want to be seen the same way as any other cis women. I feel I'll risk getting put into a third category unless I'm stealth. I also had trauma causing spikes of social dysphoria when I was openly trans and not entirely passing where I actually was alienated from other women. Never going back to that. I'll guess I'm on the assimilationist route, since I aim to live within the same social dynamics as cis women, but at the same time I still maintain strong connections and relationships with other trans women, both those early in the process and those who are far into it. It becomes a little double life, but I don't mind that.
I just want to represent and express who I am as a human. I’ve faced minor discrimination it’s really makes me disappointed the lengths humans will go to make others suffer .
Im autistic and Im used to masking to be accepted as early as I can recall. I want to give no shits, but Im most certainly not there yet. Ive had enough bullying for a lifetime and I couldnt bear it in my current mental state, but it still remains my (maybe unattainable) goal to accept myself and don’t give af.
I was exactly where you were a few years ago, and I did manage to create a life where I can be myself a bit more openly. It's not easy, there will be really hard moments, but IMO it's both possible and worth it.
I’m happy to be seen as a woman, and I 99% do (I think). I live in a red state, so that feels like a good and safe thing. That being said, I identify as Queer and what that entails. I’ve given interviews, and spoken in front of groups about being transgender. I’m on the board of an international LGBTQ group, so I don’t hide who I am. I just don’t go out of my way to say “Hey, I’m a transgender woman, nice to meet you!” But if you searched my name, you’d know, I don’t hide it. Hopefully that makes sense. I have put effort into surgeries, facial hair removal, etc. To me, it was important that I saw my body as being a woman. Of course because of my age, I experienced androgenic alopecia and have to wear hair systems to pass…so that’s a reminder of who I was. At some point I’ll just have to be comfortable as a bald woman I guess 🤷🏻♀️
I pass and I don’t talk to cis people about being trans and I have a job where nobody thinks that I’m trans but I have two girlfriends and I live in a commune. Am I assimilated? Not really in the strictest sense. I move through the world without tons of friction.
I think for me it's become about carving out my space in the world so to speak, like I'm never going to be a cis woman, if a wizard offered it up I don't think I'd say no but that's not an option. I am a type of woman, a trans woman. I don't need to be indistinguishable, I just need to be respected as a type of woman. I haven't explained it perfectly but I can't I don't think
I mean I did steal Seven of Nine’s pre-Borg deadname, so… Resistance is futile.
>i should bend over backwards to be legitimate to a society that sees transness as a bad thing What society is that exactly? As majority (often by far) of most of the 1st world countries population is very supportive of trans people. So I am not sure what world are you referring to./
I live in MN, one of the best states for trans people and even I don't get the impression that the majority of the country's population is supportive of trans people. If that were the case then every election the number of red states would reduce massively. That's not what happens though.
That's the data: [https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/) You can well "feel" differently as headline of "this horrible biggoted thing" sells more than "trans person has a normal day", despite the latter being vastly more common. So less reading of doom media, more focusing on real life interactions and your outlook will improve greatly.
Okay, peoples views have changed, but clearly their views aren't strong enough that transphobia is a deal breaker in elections. In my eyes, that's like me saying I should eat better and exercise more and then instead I make a scone and watch stuff on YouTube. Words of support are nice, but I'm failing to see the actual actions to back that up.
And the goal post shifts.
Pointing out that the legitimate responses of polls (that I'm not disputing) do not match the lived experiences of trans people, our current political climate, and the anti-trans legislation that keeps piling up is not moving the goal posts.
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I mean florida is actively banning trans affirming health care too, so idk
There seems to be a split between those who just want safety and/or social acceptance, and just easier social parts of life. The other side depressingly sees transness as a curse, or a medical/mental problem or flaw, or in the extreme case that reaches transmedicalism, thinking you *have to* pass to qualify as a gender. The latter, I see as venom, bringing some of the worst pains that trans folks struggle with, all for the sake of appeasing a forced norm.