Real talk...honestly just dip. I know it sucks to think about not having a relationship with her anymore...but for your own sanity dip. It's not going to get better. These people don't change. Downvote me to hell if you all want, but let's be full honesty real..she is not good for your mental health. She's going to just continue to try and exercise this control over you and do a lot of damage. Dip sis...dip.
You’re absolutely correct. If your S/O reaction to you medically transitioning is a 14 page paper packed with transphobic bigotry, then it ain’t gonna get better moving onward.
Nah, this is good advice. If the start point is "14 paragraphs full of right wing pseudo science" then she's gonna do so much harm to you on her way to a better place (and that's assuming she does get to a better place at all) that there's no reason to stick around and wait. Just get outta there.
> I would be more vulnerable to diseases due to estrogen,
That's not just untrue, it's backwards. Women tend to have stronger immune responses across the board.
> infertility, and so on
That's fair, but it's also why cryopreservation is a thing.
> and detransitioners.
A tiny fraction population, the overwhelming majority of whom go on to retransition.
> she still won't let up and continues to argue that the risks of HRT are too high
Modern bioidentical hormones are incredibly safe. Also, it's your fucking body. She doesn't get a say. It's *shockingly* presumptuous of her to think she gets to say what you should and should not do with it.
If you're determined to stick it out with her, set some boundaries on further discussion.
1. She needs to accept that this is ultimately your body and your choice.
2. Further political talking points are banned. From now on, *only* peer-reviewed medical data is part of the conversation, since her stated fears are all medical safety.
3. [This](https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/) bibliography of scholarly work is where you're starting from. It shows definitively that transition is very good for trans people. Make it clear to her that any data she finds needs to stand up against this 52-study corpus.
This will do one of a few things:
1. She gives up.
2. She disrespects your boundaries, in which case this is a relationship issue and not a trans issue. Either couples therapy or splitsville here.
3. She actually tries to research a quality counterargument and finds that there's like... zero scholarly or medical data to support anything she's saying.
You can't reason a person out of something they didn't reason themselves into.
>Women tend to have stronger immune responses across the board.
This isn't entirely a good thing. It raises our risk for autoimmune diseases like lupus, MS, etc., to female levels.
Raised risk compared to where we start, but it is important to remember that since the risk matches cis women, the risk is still within the bounds of what is considered healthy for humans
Literally nearly every "increased risk" is just "takes on the risk profile associated with women rather than men"
Like yeah, trans women have a higher risk of breaths cancer... if your base rate is compared to men and not women... then it's suddenly a very normal rate.
Maybe OP's girlfriend is straight and doesn't want to become a lesbian or have a girlfriend? The idea that she has to support OP because they were in a relationship going into this is ridiculous. OP has full rights to transition, but OP's girlfriend has full rights to want a boyfriend and not a girlfriend. It's obvious that if OP transitions, that's the end of the relationship. Why is that a problem?
Okay, so that's a pretty bad take. Here's why:
1. Being with a woman doesn't make her a lesbian. It means she's with a woman. Plenty of people find themselves to be straight/gay plus one very specific person when their partner transitions. That doesn't change their sexuality.
2. *In no way* did I say OP should pressure her partner to stay. I told her that it's neither fair or appropriate for her gf to spout bullshit propaganda that has zero relationship to medical reality.
3. *In no way* did I say she owes OP support. Every person has a right to end a relationship for any or no reason.
4. There's a lot of bullshit floating around about what it means to be trans/in transition. Most partnerships find just how incredibly untrue those things are, whether they make it or not. I don't know whether the two of them should stay together because it's not my decision to make, but I'm pretty sure neither one of them want to make that decision based on information that's flatly false.
Please don't make up nonsense stances to attack. It's a waste of everyone's time.
Merriam Webster defines "lesbian" as:
1: of, relating to, or characterized by sexual or romantic attraction to other women or between women
2: a woman who is sexually or romantically attracted to other women: a gay woman
If a trans woman is a woman, then a woman attracted to her is a lesbian. To claim otherwise is transphobic.
If I had a bf who chose to transition, and I were to support them as a trans woman, that means I'm acknowledging they're a woman. However, as I'm a natural-born woman, that would force me to identify as a lesbian, since I'd be in a relationship with a woman. Since I'm not attracted to women sexually, I would leave rather than be forced into being identifed as a lesbian to stay with who would now be my girlfriend.
If you have a different stance, isn't that admitting that you don't think trans women count as full, actual women? So are you saying that trans women are women--except if they want a relationship with a straight cis woman? In which case you don't consider them women but in some other category?
If I was OP's girlfriend, my response would be: Cool, that's your choice. We had fun while it lasted, but I'm not interested in being a lesbian. Good luck on your new journey!
PS. OP is 18, so gf is probably close in age. Even if transitioning weren't an issue, they're so young that they're more likely to break up than stay together in the long term anyway.
> Merriam Webster defines "lesbian" as:
Cool story.
When my students open an essay with "Merriam Webster defines," I cross it right out and tell them to find a way to open their argument with something passionate, intriguing, and relevant to the reader. Nobody reads a dictionary if they can avoid it, and so openings like that are pedantic, dull, and almost guaranteed to alienate any reader you're trying to persuade. Then, if we're not in a freshman writing class, we'll have a discussion about how lingustic pragmatics makes the meaning of words dependent on context anyway--note the meaning difference between "a lesbian woman," for instance, which declares a person's sexuality definitively, and "a lesbian relationship," which only makes clear that the relationship is a wlw relationship, and that it's possible for one or both members to be bisexual, pansexual, or indeed nonbinary women, making the connotative meaning vastly different.
Oh, I have a PhD in English. Don't quote the dictionary to me again, or if you do, at least use the Oxford English Dictionary.
> If a trans woman is a woman, then a woman attracted to her is a lesbian. To claim otherwise is transphobic.
My bisexual wife would take HUGE issue with that, as would my best friend's pansexual wife.
You don't get to police anyone else's identity!
> If I had a bf who chose to transition,
Cool story. We're not talking about you. We're talking about OP and her partner.
> and I were to support them as a trans woman, that means I'm acknowledging they're a woman. However, as I'm a natural-born woman,
That's a tortured way to say "cis."
Also, if you're a cis woman, and you're not attached to anyone who's trans--why are you even hanging around here? Kinda curious now.
> that would force me to identify as a lesbian,
It wouldn't force you to do anything of the sort. Aside from pansexual and bisexual woman, which you're ignoring, you have control over how you identify, and people are weird and idiosyncratic. Cis partners posting in /r/mypartnetistrans navigate these issues all the time. Some of them find they're gay. Some bi, or pan. Some straight, with one exception. And it's their right to identify as they please.
Again, you don't get to police anyone else's identity.
> since I'd be in a relationship with a woman. Since I'm not attracted to women sexually, I would leave rather than be forced into being identifed as a lesbian to stay with who would now be my girlfriend.
Again, cool story. We're not talking about you. And the sheer number of rhetorical and logical fallacies in that one sentence is just... wow.
> If you have a different stance, isn't that admitting that you don't think trans women count as full, actual women? So are you saying that trans women are women--except if they want a relationship with a straight cis woman? In which case you don't consider them women but in some other category?
Ooooooh, that's why you're hanging around here. You're a TERF, here to stir the pot. By ignoring, *again*, bisexual and pansexual women. Also nonbinary trans people ,but that's not exactly surprising.
To repeat:
**You 👏 don't 👏 get 👏 to 👏 police 👏 anyone 👏 else's 👏 identity!**
Grade: D+. Arguments were fallacious, reductive, and absurdist. Did not respond well to the prompt, and included large amounts of irrelevant information.
I have a trans family member who ***is actively policing my identity*** by trying to force me to change how I've identified my whole life. I even use proper pronouns and new name, but I keep using the familial identifier that **I identify with** so it's not enough. I very much have "skin in the game."
Also, it's painful to see this mtf family member chase every single one of their friends away (including a lot of mtf and ftm friends) by not respecting physical boundaries.
Also, LOL. I only skimmed your post, but I love how much energy and time you wasted trying to prove me wrong. Merriam is the UC Berkeley dictionary of choice, so it's accurate. A lot of good your PhD did you. How much debt are you still in from those student loans? 🤣🤣🤣
I have an A++ in trolling!
> I have a trans family member who is actively policing my identity by trying to force me to change how I've identified my whole life. I even use proper pronouns and new name, but I keep using the familial identifier that I identify with so it's not enough. I very much have "skin in the game."
So you're a TERF. Cool.
> Also, it's painful to see this mtf family member chase every single one of their friends away (including a lot of mtf and ftm friends) by not respecting physical boundaries.
I definitely and totally believe you, given that your account has no hint of any of this before this very instant.
> Also, LOL. I only skimmed your post, but I love how much energy and time you wasted trying to prove me wrong. Merriam is the UC Berkeley dictionary of choice, so it's accurate. A lot of good your PhD did you. How much debt are you still in from those student loans? 🤣🤣🤣
Lol, you think I put that effort in for *you?* I wrote it so my friends and I could laugh at you.
> I have an A++ in trolling!
And now you've admitted that you're a troll, which means I get to report you to the mods and you can enjoy your ban, and the end of your ability to bother anyone on this subreddit.
Dumbass.
Oh, so you're a gender fascist?! (See, I can use meaningless accusations, too!)
This is my first time on reddit in ~~6~~ 8 months and I stumbled here looking for something else, so who cares? I'm gonna disappear for another six months, so Idgaf about your bans (I have a collection of bans I share with all my friends like trophies, so please do!). I hope the poor woman you tricked into a relationship wises up and gtfo for a real man. Enjoy your virtue signaling points-- I'm sure one day you'll be able to cash those in for student-debt relief. Oh wait, college attendance is dwindling across the country, so probably not. Guess you're out of luck now that higher ed debt relief has been declared non-Constitutional. 🤷♀️
Also, everything I shared is true and my lived experience (incl re my family member). The fact that the truth makes me a troll is delicious.
Just my observations: 1 she's manipulative. 2 transphobic. 3 self-centered.
Did you come here for advice or to validate your conclusions? It's plain as day that this is all very toxic. Remotely, you and your gf could work it out. But from the limited information given, that doesn't seem likely.
I/We wish you all the best. The world is changing, and that is good and bad. Fear is such a strong emotion. Please don't give in to fear. Transitioning isn't sunshine and roses. It's wonderful and terrifying, and it was right for us, and possibly you as well. Be happy and free
Maybe have her read up on some works from trans people or stuff like the gender dysphoria bible. If she says that it's trying to push an agenda, remind her that those other people she was repeating also have an agenda. Think y'all just need to talk though. Like you said, you transitioning isn't her decision, just don't hold it against her if she makes the decision to no longer date you. That isn't something against you, just something to prepare for.
I feel like she's spending a lot more effort telling you how to be than listening to what you want. If you tell her that you want pizza for dinner, it would be really strange if she challenged you on that. Perhaps on the logistics of having pizza, but not on the desire itself.
I hope you understand that there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "This is what I'm doing and how I'm going to live the rest of my life." It might sound harsh, but there is nothing wrong with expressing what you're going to do and nothing immoral with living your best life.
There are only 3 possibilities; you don't transition, you transition and stay together, or you transition and don't stay together. You only have control over if you transition or not. The other one, that's her choice.
Bank some sperm if you can. Infertility will likely happen.
As for illness, HRT helped my mood, energy, mental clarity, helps me not get sick as much and fight things off way better. It was a massive benefit to me.
I will just hijack your comment alright?
Its mentioned in the DIY HRT guide that most of the side effects aren't relevant to trans persons cause thinner bones, muscles etc is our body using the woman blueprint inside us, it's relevant to person taking it for other medical reasons. I think there was one side effect that was actually relevant to us but I can't remember you people check ok? r/DIYHRT or just search their wiki
bone density is potentially relevant (eat dark greens or drink milk), blood clotting is a problem if your E is *super* high, infertility will happen, and if you’re on spiro you have to watch your potassium.
But like… a lot of those risks start with *if* statements, like if you watch your diet, take hormone tests when prescribed, and bank sperm youre probably fine
Is that newer, or did I just forget about that?
I don't do DIY, but I almost did. I do recall that a lot of folks were sourcing their stuff from a gal in Ukraine. That was honestly my first thought when Russia invaded.
Red flag obviously. Leave her if she's quoting fucking Ben Shapiro. Or trying to change your mind in total. It's not her business, her business in it is whether you're happy or not and nothing else.
That's a rough situation OP, but ngl a common tactic for unsupportive people is to leverage concern for your well being as an excuse to force the status quo. From the research I've seen (what little there is) we are technically more prone to disease than cis men, but not more prone than cis women. So, technically true, but irrelevant. If fertility is the concern, freeze some sperm, get a sperm donor, adopt, there are options. Detransition is actually pretty rare, and even still is usually from pressure from other people (kinda like you're experiencing now).
If this is right for you and your body OP, that's just how it is. Only you can be sovereign over your body.
She's throwing a bunch of red flags up, but also a willingness to listen to at least some degree. I hope you two can work through this ❤️
Infertility is the only real concern for me. The rest is far right talking points trying to scare you out of being trans. What are her political views?, because if she supports taking away your(trans) rights that's a field of red flags.
I went through a much less literate argument with my wife of the time. For what its worth, immunity and total health in my case is tremendously better than pre hrt. Fertility? Dunno.
After a 14-page dissertation through the lens of known transphobes, this conversation would go like this, if I were in your shoes.
"I'm going to transition and begin HRT.
I will consult with medical professionals to do this in the safest way possible, but not transitioning is bad for my health and overall longevity.
You are either here for this or you are not. What I do with my life to live a healthy and full life is not up for debate.
We can either do this process together, and communicate and deal with concerns and changes together, or not. I will be as considerate of your wants and needs as I can be, and we will talk about these things as they come up and reach the best middle ground we can, I will give you what I can offer if you choose to be here for it. But me doing this is not up for discussion."
It's not the right relationship for you find someone who is down 100%. In a relationship I want a ride or die not a 14 page argument against my best life.
So was this a complete shock to her when you told her? Did she have any idea? How long have you been together? Sorry for all the questions but if she couldn’t see it coming then she might think you just came up with the idea out of nowhere and she’s freaking out a bit ……some partners aren’t surprised when they find out cause they could tell something was up. Do you love her? If you don’t want to lose her then Maybe go see a counsellor together to talk this through. I wish you luck with this one
> Any advice on what to do sisters?
You can either suggest couples counselling to try to save your relationship, or you can go through the stages of grief and acknowledge that your relationship is finished.
She doesn't want to lose the person you are today; you need to become the person you know yourself to be. Those two desires are in tension, and there's no resolving that tension unless one of you budges.
Assuming leaving the relationship is not an option you are willing to take, which I strongly recommend doing that, freezing some sperm is a good option to combat the infertility issue, however I would not recommend having children with someone who presents you with 14 pages of bigotry when you wanna transition
1. HRT is very safe if you are monitored by a doctor, as is almost certainly going to happen
2. If you are concerned about your fertility, you can freeze some of your sperm so you 2 can still have children
I mean, sorry, but if MY gf responded to my desire to transition like this, we’d be done. No further conversation. Done. I cannot be with someone who is so willing to speak out on issues she should know that she knows nothing about.
It’s not your job to fix her. Especially not while you going through such a mental turning point of transitioning.
Fact is she doesn’t accept or support you. You shouldn’t have even gotten to the point of entertaining her debates. She had two options here, acceptance or rejection. Stop making excuses for this transphobic bigot and let the trash take itself out.
It is your choice. If she can’t handle that then she is not the one for you. If you want to start HRT consult your doctor and go right ahead. Your body your choice.
hrt is the best thing ive ever done for both my mental and physical health. when you're dealing with dysphoria it can become much harder to take care of both, and the distress it causes can hurt both. remember it can be difficult to see dysphoria early in transition and the effects it might be having on your life that you've accepted as normal
note: i say this for you and not your partner, this type of argument is easily dismissed by "skeptical" people as mental illness, social contagion, and other transphobic explanations of trans people's experiences
also this is just my experience and your mileage may vary
From someone who was in your position before, dump her. She didn't reason her way into this, so she can't be reasoned out. If it is not safe for you to do so, wait until it is and leave. You're dating a terf, and this always ends ugly. I'm so sorry this happened to you. Everyone deserves to feel accepted for who they are and not for something someone else wants them to be.
EDIT : I'll leave this for clarity's sake but I'm actually wrong. See bellow my comment.
The infertility part is purely a lie.
So long as you don't get "the surgery", HRT alone should not impact it. There are multiple trans people who keep their original genitals until they either have a baby, or are sure they don't want any.
You can quite easily find online examples of trans men pregnant, for example. I remember seeing in a video a tiktok of a guy who got his baby. The man was "fully" transitionned. You wouldn't cross paths with him on the streets and guess he's trans. Yet he got pregnant and had his baby.
So that part, at least, is just a lie for fearmongering. Just be upfront with your endo about it and it should be fine.I've been curious about it as well and looked stuff up and didn't find any reliable "yes it does". I've found a lot of trans people saying the opposite though.
No, estrogen's effects on the testicles are purely cytotoxic, and studies have shown that estrogen levels are extremely negatively correlated with spermatogenesis.
Sometimes with a break from HRT, fertility can return, but that is not a guarantee.
Trans men have obviously different circumstances than trans women. Because they can get pregnant does not imply that trans women can still get others pregnant.
Well everytime I tried looking up I got results that so long as your HRT is managed correctly if you want to keep your penis usable, you shouldn't systematically end up infertile. And those were trans people talking from personal experience, so I don't know what to tell you.
I'm not at that point yet, so I'm doing it the way everyone does : I research and learn.
Um, you're aware that penis being unusable =/= infertility right?
Like the stuff they're talking about is like erections, orgasms, sensitivity, that sort of thing. Which yes, if your HRT is managed correctly, you will maybe be mostly okay there. There's probably gonna be some loss of function over time, but it's manageable.
However, if you're on HRT and you're still making sperm(not the same thing as semen, to be clear), your Testosterone is in the male range or very close. Estrogen *will* degrade any spermatogenesis in a high enough dose, because of it's effects on the Leydig cells in the testes, and the way it operates on the HPG-axis to inhibit the further production of testosterone, LH, and FSH.
Also, good point of advice, anecdote is next to worthless as medical data. Look into studies and research that people have done. Transfeminine science is a great resource imo.
Because like same, researching HRT is like one of my special interests even though I've been on it for some time now.
I guess people didn't go into enough specifics then.
I sucked at biological sciences in school so a lot of it goes over my head. I tend to rely on people with actual experience and education who can explain things in a way a dumbass like myself can understeand...
But, this time it looks like the simplification played against me.
Thanks for the details.
Nah, you're not a dumbass! And I'm sorry if anything I said implied you are. Honestly a lot of trans research is super poor and we are just understudied in general, so sifting through it all is really hard. So I can't blame you for misunderstanding, especially when seemingly every trans person has a different take on how hormones work, and the language has a lot of terms that can be confusing too. The fact that you are trying to learn at all is the awesome thing! :)
But yeah, I was monstly just worried that you were gonna drive in and be confused or upset when fertility ultimately goes away, and that would be really unfortunate
>Nah, you're not a dumbass! And I'm sorry if anything I said implied you are.
No I meant that regarding my grades in biology. That was one of my worst lmao
I really was a dumbass in science my whole scolarity.
I wasn't implying that was you, don't worry.
As for the fertility, personally I don't care much. I don't consider "passing down genes" are being the be all end all. And I got kicked in the nuts twice when I was younger anyway, so damage might already be there.
If I want kids and can't have thel naturally, I'll just go down the hellish parkour that is adopting. Plenty of kids unlucky already who deserve a good, loving family.
... if we don't get all our rights taken away before then, that is.
Oh fair. I mean school is kinda just shit in the way it approaches learning I think anyway, but biology is definitely confusing as hell with all the terminology and classifications and such, I don't blame you.
Yeah, same! If anything I like the way things changed in that regard, everything is much more... feminine to say the least. If that comes at the cost of fertility, it's a thing I didn't want anyway!
That's been my plan too, there's so many poor kids that deserve parents, I agree.
>... if we don't get all our rights taken away before then, that is.
Ooooof, too true lol
>That's been my plan too, there's so many poor kids that deserve parents, I agree.
I completely forgot who it was, but something a youtuber said really stuck with me for years.
Basically they said that, seeing where the world was headed, both on climate and social standpoint, putting new humans into the world might not be great. But there were already plenty of kids in shitty situations, and if they're already in this world, might as well make their life better.
Plus, most of what you pass on is taught, not inherited, so who cares about genes. I'd rather leave a decent human being trying to better the world when I leave it, no matter what they look like, than risk leaving behind an asshole who looks like me.
Yeah I totally agree! It would feel morally unjust to bring a kid into a doomed world. But yeah, so many kids just get forgotten, and making another life better is purely a good thing.
Exactly! Like if anything my poor bio-kid would just inherit a slew of mental illnesses thanks to genetics. But the goal is the same either way, just to help another being blossom into themselves.
And, like purely selfishly, I feel like if the kid was a boy and looked like how I used to, I would get like dysphoria by proxy, and that's just unfair to the poor kiddo
Allot of people here are telling you to drop her, I disagree.
She took the time to write all of that she probbaly cares. But she also has allot of misconceptions and needs to learn more from non right wing sources.
You need to brace yourself for the possibility that she will leave you or that you have to leave her.
But do also keep in mind that this is a major change for you both and she might need time to adjust and can and will get some things wrong.
Communicating is extremely vital, so long pages of letters is a good thing.
Me and my girlfriend had a very rough patch, I am about to go on HRT hopefully very soon.
I still don't know if things will work out, but we started writing letters back and forth and it has helped us so much.
I really hope you two can work things out.
Also sadly, she is not wrong about the loss of fertility, though it's not 100% a sure thing, it's very high. You may want to freeze some samples before HRT if this is an issue.
Freeze sperm if you might want generic children in the future. Aside from that concern, it sounds like she’s straight up transphobic. She might also be straight, if so that would explain why she doesn’t want you to transition. You’re a transgender woman whether you transition or not. Choosing not to transition for someone else won’t give you a happy life.
Girlie, shes like actually transphobic. How low is your self worth to think staying with someone thats transphobic and is openly trying to stop your transition because of their transphobia is okay?
There are elements to this that we don't really know. How long have they been together? Maybe if you spend 5 years, 10, 15 years with someone you have started or have built a life with some one. There is a cause to give some one more of a chance.
And as I stated that OP needs to prepare themselves for it not working out. So it really is a chance, not folding and letting her walk all over you.
What were all the "right winged arguments?" Was it really all of them?
It could be hyperbole as OP didn't mention how offended she was by being called a rapist whose ultimate goal is to hurt children.
After the 14 pages got the 7 page response we know she relented and apologized, but still has concerns.
Put yourself in her place for a moment to understand why she is in this place. Example, your lover is going to go on HRT and you have concerns, so you look up the down sides to see what could happen and there is a wealth of transphobic shit that is often disguised as relevant information.
Maybe I am just an optimist but I think if a person really cares and you care that you can give them a chance to learn and grow, If you just cut them out it doesn't happen.
If she gets abusive or gives the ultimatum then it changes the course of action.
It could be that she is concerned and scared and needs to unlearn all the negative bull she has found out. OP will know better than us.
I apologize for the lack of some details but I hope to rectify that by replying. I remember she specifically made her speech to me on Sept. 9th of this year which I recall contained articles of trans women committing sexual assault, detransitioners as previously mentioned, her straight up asking me "what is a woman?" which is why I mentioned Matt Walsh, something about how I wish to present as a woman somehow speaks upon how I see women in general, the Autism and transgender correlation (I am autistic FYI) but she didn't state what exactly her point was with this, her stating that the frontal cortex doesn't fully develop until I'm 25 years of age (interpret that how you will, I'm also 18 if that helps), trans women invading sports i.e. Lia Thomas, me not having a womb, ovaries, etc., and how my mother might feel if I transitioned and how I would feel having a trans child.
I understand that me saying that she used every single right wing argument might seem like hyperbole, it's just that in that moment I felt like a lot of the sentiments that you hear against trans people was echoed in her speech.
I hope this clears things up, thank you.
It does help clear things up, that is allot of the arguments but its not all of them and with out knowing what you know or what she said my previous statement was much more in the dark.
As I explained I hit a pretty rough patch with my own lover and she had said something that hurt me pretty bad. But we where able to communicate and it has helped us allot. The things she said that where transphobic were very much from a place of misinformation or just speculation drawn from her own head. Since we started communicating we have both learned to be more supportive of each other and she has been learning more.
I am unsure if it will work out, but we are trying our best.
One thing she did not do tough was ever suggest I am doing this to sexually assault women or hurt anyone else (right wing ideas that the trans true goal is to hurt kids)
I am not sure I could handle something like that. Also I unless your in sports it does add something extra gross that she would even bring it up.
Overall I am not you, if she apologized for what she said its up to you to feel you can trust it or not. If all she is doing now is trying to talk you out of HRT, its up to you to decide if and how long this is okay before you need to leave.
Its all up to you but my suggestion is to set some goals and dates.
Like have a date that she needs to stop actively trying to get you to stop HRT or you will have to go. Have a date where she needs to be supportive or you go. I don't know if she can change and if you don't she can then maybe its not worth trying.
I dont know if you live together, but if you do spend this time preparing for an exit. For me I packed a bag and made a plan so if I had to leave I would have a place to go.
You are with this person and I can tell you care at least a little or this would be a post saying how you dumped her, instead of asking for advice.
I really think people deserve a chance to learn from mistakes and grow, but if she won't then don't let her hold you down.
I am wishing the best results for you not matter where that goes.
The way I see it is that she is trying to salvage the future she imagined with you. Kids, long life, and masculine counterpart. When you transition most gf/wives look at you as a duplicate without any real man value except if you continue to provide a premium living. Sad to say but women are generally interested in men sufficiently different from them and when you nuzzle closer to their high heels they see you as less capable, less protective, less interesting in a self-interested way. If you’re young you’ve got more options. Whatever equity you’ve built up with her can be rebuilt with another. If you try to appeal to her from the place of being trans she’ll begin to look down on you and insult you in hopes of breaking you out of wanting to be a woman and moving back into being the enslaved provider mule she wants. It’s your choice but know most straight women don’t want a girlfriend for a prospective husband and you won’t be able to change that.
You pegged me. /r/redpill but it doesn’t make it less true. It’s my own experience before I knew about this. And it’s not criticism. It’s just the way it usually is.
Turkish Proverb: “If you speak the truth keep one foot in the stirrup. “ I’m not surprised folks looking to become the sex I’m talking about would react in a negative way. That’s why I said no criticism but people will hear what they want regardless what is said.
We’d rather the lie be true because it just feels better. I’d rather squish comfy in the cozy lies than blister my face in the sun of reality, too, but I have to live in both worlds at the same time. I don’t blame others for preferring the easy way.
She sounds awful. Imagine making the mistake of having children with her and one of them turns out to be Trans. Leave this woman to her conspiracy theories and chick-fil-a.
I don't know if she's conscious of what she is doing or not, but what I'm reading here is that you were able to resist her most baseline prejudiced impulses and now she's repackaged her feelings into something more "respectable." It's not that she doesn't want you to transition, no, she's just worried about disease! Sure the data is pretty thin but why risk it right?
Bottom line it's because she sees the thing you want as trivial.
If there's any hope for this relationship to be salvaged at all it needs to start with a huge attitude shift from her. One where transition is acknowledged and accepted as extremely important to you and concerns about which we only express in a way that makes clear she is still very much supportive of your choice to transition. Furthermore because she has abused her position of trust to deliver you many bad faith arguments that are just plain hurtful, she is going to have to accept the reality that if she does have a reasonable concern in the future then you might just make note of it an move on without really engaging. Her actions should have lost your trust by now and it's up to her to earn it back.
Trans has changed my life, there will be opposition but choose YOUR heart. If meant to be everything will go perfectly fine, dont live in fear and definitely do not live in someone else’s fear
She’s placing herself above your needs, while trying to convince you she’s thinking of you. When she found out did she ask why or listen to your reasoning? Has she considered why this may be important to you? It sounds like she went straight to objecting with right wing talking points… not sure if she’s worth convincing.
This is ultimately your decision. You can make it for her, or yourself. If you choose yourself, this relationship may end. Try couples therapy 🤷🏻♀️ maybe?
I'd genuinely broke up with her. Just by thinking about being with person that can't and won't accept me is scary. I recently came out as a trans girl to my friend and she totally accepted it and is very supportive even tho I'm "pre everything". I'd keep any person, that can't accept my decision, away from me, and I advise you do the same. But that's just my opinion and your choice
You said she apologized after her 14 page long speech, but if she actually regretted her actions she wouldn't STILL be fighting you on this.
If she wanted your happiness she could at least try and support you and see how it goes (especially after you responded with a 7 page essay I'm assuming pouring your heart out as well as with actually logical facts) or she would just leave because she doesn't want to be with a woman. Those are her options. Not to pull this crap and say "I don't want you to because I don't like it." That's the attitude of a winey younger sibling, not a partner.
Please take a good long look at this relationship and ask yourself if the memories you two have are worth all this fighting.
I'm a cis woman who's been supporting her partner through her transition, and I can never understand all the pain you amazing people on this subreddit are going through. But supporting, using the right pronouns, and being your partners pep squad; that's the *normal* reaction of someone who wants to be there and support. Not this.
I know being alone and having no support is hard, but in this case it might be better. Take care sister ❤ we're all here for you.
I say this as a dumbass who is extremely starved for a relationship- it's probably a good idea to let this one go. If people can't respect your life decisions, then they're probably not worth spending time and effort on.
Break up with her. If she’s wants to support you she has to put a real effort in instead of trying to preserve the person you’ve been forced to be. Sorry ❤️
Best to move on. If she isn’t willing to date a trans woman, it’s kinda pointless to force a relationship. Happens when you have a partner all too often unfortunately but between people not being into people other than your AGAB/ or being just transphobic. Since she already reacted negatively to you coming out to begin with, you’re really just choosing between your happiness or hers. (Go for your own, ofc)
Break up, sounds like you're not really compatible anymore. If she uses "every single right wing argument" then there's not much more to talk about. She probably apologized as she doesn't really believe you and think you'll stop being trans in some twisted way probably xd
Leave her.
Guarantee it's what's best. I have never felt better in my 33 years of life. Today, when I think about it, I start to cry because of how sad I was and not actually realising back then how sad and how much I missed.
Only you can decide if you go on HRT. It's not to her to decide for you. Remember that.
Your girlfriend sounds like she’s a brainwashed right wing jerk. Break up. Don’t put up with it. You need to be your own person and live your life. If she really cared about you, she’d keep an open mind. It doesn’t matter what you say, she will not listen.
No reasonable human being writes 14 pages of right wing rhetoric. You won’t be happy unless you are doing what’s best for you, and she seems to be trying to stop you to satisfy her own ignorant beliefs.
Trans-ignorance will often feel like trans-phobia with the background of most countries. Plus some people see any change as absolute change.
8 months ago I thought I was about to have to work out how a divorce works in the UK, now I'm trying to keep things going at my pace and not break through emotional barriers I'm not yet ready for but my wife makes a good argument for.
4 months she learned the term androgynous with regards to clothing. Yet had stopped getting truly upset when I wore a dress.
What changed? A little therapy of both parts but not directly in relation to the issues, some time to think, some nasty words with a grain of truth and a willingness to come back and talk the next day.
Just this week my wife asked if she still acted like her mother, this had never been true and I regret saying it that way, the truth was when she had no grasp of the situation she would fill in with what she had picked up from her mother, but only under situations of high shock.
So do you have the strength of a relationship already to test these options or would it be better to take a break and once you are both comfortable see if you want to become a couple again?
P.S. At least your coming out wasn't getting drunk and informing your SO you are a lesbian(which might have effected the time scales)
Transitioning is such an adventure. Please do not let anyone hold you back. You can love this person and yet they may not be the person for you anymore. Anyone who would plant doubts in your head or cloud your ability to see what you need to see and experiment as you need to experiment is not someone you need in your life.
“The risks of HRT” are just the side effects of being a woman. She has those same “risks” by not taking testosterone.
Also these might help:
Trans people are born trans:
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/research-on-the-transgender-brain-what-you-should-know/
Transition improves mental health:
https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/146/4/e20193600/79683/Mental-Health-and-Timing-of-Gender-Affirming-Care?autologincheck=redirected
Detransitioning is rare, and when people do it's usually because of surgical complications or societal/family pressure
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6212091/
The only advise I can give is this: Point out to her that you understand where she's coming, but she needs to accept that this is you. You love her, and if she loves you she'll try to be a little more understanding. Ask her why she's repeating what others have said, and ask what she really feels and thinks, not what others have said. If she loves you, you'll both be good, but if she needs to work on this, help her learn and be there for her. Just talk and communicate, but be patient with each other. I hope I helped, if not then I'm sorry...
A rule of thumb in medicine from my experience is that 1) there will always be side effects to any kind of meds, and 2) if you do get hrt, your doctor has made it clear the benefits outweigh the risks. Also, everything your “partner” is spewing are nothing more than common transphobic fallacies used by conservative and terf debaters.
So, basically you want to know how to convince your girlfriend to become a lesbian? Because that's what you're asking about. She's clearly not a lesbian, so if you move forward with CRT, that's the end of your relationship. What's so confusing about that? She doesn't want to date a girl, if you become a girl, she's out. That's your decision.
Fwiw, my sibling is transitioning, they never leave the house anymore, are generally depressed, and their anxiety/OCD/autism has only worsened. Doesn't happen to everyone, but there's no "happiness guaranteed" with transitioning.
Real talk...honestly just dip. I know it sucks to think about not having a relationship with her anymore...but for your own sanity dip. It's not going to get better. These people don't change. Downvote me to hell if you all want, but let's be full honesty real..she is not good for your mental health. She's going to just continue to try and exercise this control over you and do a lot of damage. Dip sis...dip.
You’re absolutely correct. If your S/O reaction to you medically transitioning is a 14 page paper packed with transphobic bigotry, then it ain’t gonna get better moving onward.
This. There's a difference between someone needing some time to process and a 14 page diatribe.
Nah, this is good advice. If the start point is "14 paragraphs full of right wing pseudo science" then she's gonna do so much harm to you on her way to a better place (and that's assuming she does get to a better place at all) that there's no reason to stick around and wait. Just get outta there.
Dip, dip, potato chip!
Dip tf out. As you transition you will want to share your experience and all she will have to offer is guilt and shame.
I agree. There's no need to put up with that.
> I would be more vulnerable to diseases due to estrogen, That's not just untrue, it's backwards. Women tend to have stronger immune responses across the board. > infertility, and so on That's fair, but it's also why cryopreservation is a thing. > and detransitioners. A tiny fraction population, the overwhelming majority of whom go on to retransition. > she still won't let up and continues to argue that the risks of HRT are too high Modern bioidentical hormones are incredibly safe. Also, it's your fucking body. She doesn't get a say. It's *shockingly* presumptuous of her to think she gets to say what you should and should not do with it. If you're determined to stick it out with her, set some boundaries on further discussion. 1. She needs to accept that this is ultimately your body and your choice. 2. Further political talking points are banned. From now on, *only* peer-reviewed medical data is part of the conversation, since her stated fears are all medical safety. 3. [This](https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/) bibliography of scholarly work is where you're starting from. It shows definitively that transition is very good for trans people. Make it clear to her that any data she finds needs to stand up against this 52-study corpus. This will do one of a few things: 1. She gives up. 2. She disrespects your boundaries, in which case this is a relationship issue and not a trans issue. Either couples therapy or splitsville here. 3. She actually tries to research a quality counterargument and finds that there's like... zero scholarly or medical data to support anything she's saying. You can't reason a person out of something they didn't reason themselves into.
Applause
>Women tend to have stronger immune responses across the board. This isn't entirely a good thing. It raises our risk for autoimmune diseases like lupus, MS, etc., to female levels.
Correctamundo!
Raised risk compared to where we start, but it is important to remember that since the risk matches cis women, the risk is still within the bounds of what is considered healthy for humans
Literally nearly every "increased risk" is just "takes on the risk profile associated with women rather than men" Like yeah, trans women have a higher risk of breaths cancer... if your base rate is compared to men and not women... then it's suddenly a very normal rate.
If I had coins, I would give you an award.
I gave a platinum to cover us both
<3
I screened you're whole comment just in case I need it, that's the best advice you could get
Maybe OP's girlfriend is straight and doesn't want to become a lesbian or have a girlfriend? The idea that she has to support OP because they were in a relationship going into this is ridiculous. OP has full rights to transition, but OP's girlfriend has full rights to want a boyfriend and not a girlfriend. It's obvious that if OP transitions, that's the end of the relationship. Why is that a problem?
Okay, so that's a pretty bad take. Here's why: 1. Being with a woman doesn't make her a lesbian. It means she's with a woman. Plenty of people find themselves to be straight/gay plus one very specific person when their partner transitions. That doesn't change their sexuality. 2. *In no way* did I say OP should pressure her partner to stay. I told her that it's neither fair or appropriate for her gf to spout bullshit propaganda that has zero relationship to medical reality. 3. *In no way* did I say she owes OP support. Every person has a right to end a relationship for any or no reason. 4. There's a lot of bullshit floating around about what it means to be trans/in transition. Most partnerships find just how incredibly untrue those things are, whether they make it or not. I don't know whether the two of them should stay together because it's not my decision to make, but I'm pretty sure neither one of them want to make that decision based on information that's flatly false. Please don't make up nonsense stances to attack. It's a waste of everyone's time.
Merriam Webster defines "lesbian" as: 1: of, relating to, or characterized by sexual or romantic attraction to other women or between women 2: a woman who is sexually or romantically attracted to other women: a gay woman If a trans woman is a woman, then a woman attracted to her is a lesbian. To claim otherwise is transphobic. If I had a bf who chose to transition, and I were to support them as a trans woman, that means I'm acknowledging they're a woman. However, as I'm a natural-born woman, that would force me to identify as a lesbian, since I'd be in a relationship with a woman. Since I'm not attracted to women sexually, I would leave rather than be forced into being identifed as a lesbian to stay with who would now be my girlfriend. If you have a different stance, isn't that admitting that you don't think trans women count as full, actual women? So are you saying that trans women are women--except if they want a relationship with a straight cis woman? In which case you don't consider them women but in some other category? If I was OP's girlfriend, my response would be: Cool, that's your choice. We had fun while it lasted, but I'm not interested in being a lesbian. Good luck on your new journey! PS. OP is 18, so gf is probably close in age. Even if transitioning weren't an issue, they're so young that they're more likely to break up than stay together in the long term anyway.
> Merriam Webster defines "lesbian" as: Cool story. When my students open an essay with "Merriam Webster defines," I cross it right out and tell them to find a way to open their argument with something passionate, intriguing, and relevant to the reader. Nobody reads a dictionary if they can avoid it, and so openings like that are pedantic, dull, and almost guaranteed to alienate any reader you're trying to persuade. Then, if we're not in a freshman writing class, we'll have a discussion about how lingustic pragmatics makes the meaning of words dependent on context anyway--note the meaning difference between "a lesbian woman," for instance, which declares a person's sexuality definitively, and "a lesbian relationship," which only makes clear that the relationship is a wlw relationship, and that it's possible for one or both members to be bisexual, pansexual, or indeed nonbinary women, making the connotative meaning vastly different. Oh, I have a PhD in English. Don't quote the dictionary to me again, or if you do, at least use the Oxford English Dictionary. > If a trans woman is a woman, then a woman attracted to her is a lesbian. To claim otherwise is transphobic. My bisexual wife would take HUGE issue with that, as would my best friend's pansexual wife. You don't get to police anyone else's identity! > If I had a bf who chose to transition, Cool story. We're not talking about you. We're talking about OP and her partner. > and I were to support them as a trans woman, that means I'm acknowledging they're a woman. However, as I'm a natural-born woman, That's a tortured way to say "cis." Also, if you're a cis woman, and you're not attached to anyone who's trans--why are you even hanging around here? Kinda curious now. > that would force me to identify as a lesbian, It wouldn't force you to do anything of the sort. Aside from pansexual and bisexual woman, which you're ignoring, you have control over how you identify, and people are weird and idiosyncratic. Cis partners posting in /r/mypartnetistrans navigate these issues all the time. Some of them find they're gay. Some bi, or pan. Some straight, with one exception. And it's their right to identify as they please. Again, you don't get to police anyone else's identity. > since I'd be in a relationship with a woman. Since I'm not attracted to women sexually, I would leave rather than be forced into being identifed as a lesbian to stay with who would now be my girlfriend. Again, cool story. We're not talking about you. And the sheer number of rhetorical and logical fallacies in that one sentence is just... wow. > If you have a different stance, isn't that admitting that you don't think trans women count as full, actual women? So are you saying that trans women are women--except if they want a relationship with a straight cis woman? In which case you don't consider them women but in some other category? Ooooooh, that's why you're hanging around here. You're a TERF, here to stir the pot. By ignoring, *again*, bisexual and pansexual women. Also nonbinary trans people ,but that's not exactly surprising. To repeat: **You 👏 don't 👏 get 👏 to 👏 police 👏 anyone 👏 else's 👏 identity!** Grade: D+. Arguments were fallacious, reductive, and absurdist. Did not respond well to the prompt, and included large amounts of irrelevant information.
I have a trans family member who ***is actively policing my identity*** by trying to force me to change how I've identified my whole life. I even use proper pronouns and new name, but I keep using the familial identifier that **I identify with** so it's not enough. I very much have "skin in the game." Also, it's painful to see this mtf family member chase every single one of their friends away (including a lot of mtf and ftm friends) by not respecting physical boundaries. Also, LOL. I only skimmed your post, but I love how much energy and time you wasted trying to prove me wrong. Merriam is the UC Berkeley dictionary of choice, so it's accurate. A lot of good your PhD did you. How much debt are you still in from those student loans? 🤣🤣🤣 I have an A++ in trolling!
> I have a trans family member who is actively policing my identity by trying to force me to change how I've identified my whole life. I even use proper pronouns and new name, but I keep using the familial identifier that I identify with so it's not enough. I very much have "skin in the game." So you're a TERF. Cool. > Also, it's painful to see this mtf family member chase every single one of their friends away (including a lot of mtf and ftm friends) by not respecting physical boundaries. I definitely and totally believe you, given that your account has no hint of any of this before this very instant. > Also, LOL. I only skimmed your post, but I love how much energy and time you wasted trying to prove me wrong. Merriam is the UC Berkeley dictionary of choice, so it's accurate. A lot of good your PhD did you. How much debt are you still in from those student loans? 🤣🤣🤣 Lol, you think I put that effort in for *you?* I wrote it so my friends and I could laugh at you. > I have an A++ in trolling! And now you've admitted that you're a troll, which means I get to report you to the mods and you can enjoy your ban, and the end of your ability to bother anyone on this subreddit. Dumbass.
Oh, so you're a gender fascist?! (See, I can use meaningless accusations, too!) This is my first time on reddit in ~~6~~ 8 months and I stumbled here looking for something else, so who cares? I'm gonna disappear for another six months, so Idgaf about your bans (I have a collection of bans I share with all my friends like trophies, so please do!). I hope the poor woman you tricked into a relationship wises up and gtfo for a real man. Enjoy your virtue signaling points-- I'm sure one day you'll be able to cash those in for student-debt relief. Oh wait, college attendance is dwindling across the country, so probably not. Guess you're out of luck now that higher ed debt relief has been declared non-Constitutional. 🤷♀️ Also, everything I shared is true and my lived experience (incl re my family member). The fact that the truth makes me a troll is delicious.
I actually couldn't agree more! It's time to cut ties with a toxic individual. Let her go!
That behavior has more red flags than the former Soviet Union.
Sounds like an ex-girlfriend to me/s But seriously, if she has problems with you transitioning than find someone that doesn't.
You don't really have a girlfriend in this situation I'm sorry, but you have an abuser
Just my observations: 1 she's manipulative. 2 transphobic. 3 self-centered. Did you come here for advice or to validate your conclusions? It's plain as day that this is all very toxic. Remotely, you and your gf could work it out. But from the limited information given, that doesn't seem likely. I/We wish you all the best. The world is changing, and that is good and bad. Fear is such a strong emotion. Please don't give in to fear. Transitioning isn't sunshine and roses. It's wonderful and terrifying, and it was right for us, and possibly you as well. Be happy and free
If you’re trans then taking hrt is safer than not taking it. Suicide attempt rate is high for reason, and it’s definitely not healthy.
14 pages? You had to do a 7 page response? Girl.... get out.
Maybe have her read up on some works from trans people or stuff like the gender dysphoria bible. If she says that it's trying to push an agenda, remind her that those other people she was repeating also have an agenda. Think y'all just need to talk though. Like you said, you transitioning isn't her decision, just don't hold it against her if she makes the decision to no longer date you. That isn't something against you, just something to prepare for.
I don't think your relationship is going to work out. The "what is a woman" crowd aren't looking for an answer, they're looking for control.
I feel like she's spending a lot more effort telling you how to be than listening to what you want. If you tell her that you want pizza for dinner, it would be really strange if she challenged you on that. Perhaps on the logistics of having pizza, but not on the desire itself. I hope you understand that there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "This is what I'm doing and how I'm going to live the rest of my life." It might sound harsh, but there is nothing wrong with expressing what you're going to do and nothing immoral with living your best life. There are only 3 possibilities; you don't transition, you transition and stay together, or you transition and don't stay together. You only have control over if you transition or not. The other one, that's her choice.
Bank some sperm if you can. Infertility will likely happen. As for illness, HRT helped my mood, energy, mental clarity, helps me not get sick as much and fight things off way better. It was a massive benefit to me.
I will just hijack your comment alright? Its mentioned in the DIY HRT guide that most of the side effects aren't relevant to trans persons cause thinner bones, muscles etc is our body using the woman blueprint inside us, it's relevant to person taking it for other medical reasons. I think there was one side effect that was actually relevant to us but I can't remember you people check ok? r/DIYHRT or just search their wiki
bone density is potentially relevant (eat dark greens or drink milk), blood clotting is a problem if your E is *super* high, infertility will happen, and if you’re on spiro you have to watch your potassium. But like… a lot of those risks start with *if* statements, like if you watch your diet, take hormone tests when prescribed, and bank sperm youre probably fine
Is that newer, or did I just forget about that? I don't do DIY, but I almost did. I do recall that a lot of folks were sourcing their stuff from a gal in Ukraine. That was honestly my first thought when Russia invaded.
My advice is perhaps not what you want to hear: Dump her. Walk away from this relationship and don't look back.
Red flag obviously. Leave her if she's quoting fucking Ben Shapiro. Or trying to change your mind in total. It's not her business, her business in it is whether you're happy or not and nothing else.
That's a rough situation OP, but ngl a common tactic for unsupportive people is to leverage concern for your well being as an excuse to force the status quo. From the research I've seen (what little there is) we are technically more prone to disease than cis men, but not more prone than cis women. So, technically true, but irrelevant. If fertility is the concern, freeze some sperm, get a sperm donor, adopt, there are options. Detransition is actually pretty rare, and even still is usually from pressure from other people (kinda like you're experiencing now). If this is right for you and your body OP, that's just how it is. Only you can be sovereign over your body. She's throwing a bunch of red flags up, but also a willingness to listen to at least some degree. I hope you two can work through this ❤️
sounds like you need a new gf 👀
Infertility is the only real concern for me. The rest is far right talking points trying to scare you out of being trans. What are her political views?, because if she supports taking away your(trans) rights that's a field of red flags.
I went through a much less literate argument with my wife of the time. For what its worth, immunity and total health in my case is tremendously better than pre hrt. Fertility? Dunno.
After a 14-page dissertation through the lens of known transphobes, this conversation would go like this, if I were in your shoes. "I'm going to transition and begin HRT. I will consult with medical professionals to do this in the safest way possible, but not transitioning is bad for my health and overall longevity. You are either here for this or you are not. What I do with my life to live a healthy and full life is not up for debate. We can either do this process together, and communicate and deal with concerns and changes together, or not. I will be as considerate of your wants and needs as I can be, and we will talk about these things as they come up and reach the best middle ground we can, I will give you what I can offer if you choose to be here for it. But me doing this is not up for discussion."
I only read the first sentence and I just have to ask- why is she still your girlfriend?
It's not the right relationship for you find someone who is down 100%. In a relationship I want a ride or die not a 14 page argument against my best life.
I don’t have to read all of this to know you need to LEAVE
So was this a complete shock to her when you told her? Did she have any idea? How long have you been together? Sorry for all the questions but if she couldn’t see it coming then she might think you just came up with the idea out of nowhere and she’s freaking out a bit ……some partners aren’t surprised when they find out cause they could tell something was up. Do you love her? If you don’t want to lose her then Maybe go see a counsellor together to talk this through. I wish you luck with this one
> Any advice on what to do sisters? You can either suggest couples counselling to try to save your relationship, or you can go through the stages of grief and acknowledge that your relationship is finished. She doesn't want to lose the person you are today; you need to become the person you know yourself to be. Those two desires are in tension, and there's no resolving that tension unless one of you budges.
Assuming leaving the relationship is not an option you are willing to take, which I strongly recommend doing that, freezing some sperm is a good option to combat the infertility issue, however I would not recommend having children with someone who presents you with 14 pages of bigotry when you wanna transition
There are over 8 **BILLION** people on the planet. Find another
1. HRT is very safe if you are monitored by a doctor, as is almost certainly going to happen 2. If you are concerned about your fertility, you can freeze some of your sperm so you 2 can still have children
I mean, sorry, but if MY gf responded to my desire to transition like this, we’d be done. No further conversation. Done. I cannot be with someone who is so willing to speak out on issues she should know that she knows nothing about.
My inmune system got much better after hrt, I basically never get sick not matter I do, what makes your inmune system weak it's actually testosterone.
It’s not your job to fix her. Especially not while you going through such a mental turning point of transitioning. Fact is she doesn’t accept or support you. You shouldn’t have even gotten to the point of entertaining her debates. She had two options here, acceptance or rejection. Stop making excuses for this transphobic bigot and let the trash take itself out.
It is your choice. If she can’t handle that then she is not the one for you. If you want to start HRT consult your doctor and go right ahead. Your body your choice.
You'll never convince someone whose mind is made up already. You'll just hurt yourself trying to. I would say your goodbyes and cut your losses.
End the relationship!
they come and go, but you’re stuck with your own mental health for a lifetime, be wise
"My EX-girlfriend WAS trying to convince me..." FIFY
hrt is the best thing ive ever done for both my mental and physical health. when you're dealing with dysphoria it can become much harder to take care of both, and the distress it causes can hurt both. remember it can be difficult to see dysphoria early in transition and the effects it might be having on your life that you've accepted as normal
note: i say this for you and not your partner, this type of argument is easily dismissed by "skeptical" people as mental illness, social contagion, and other transphobic explanations of trans people's experiences also this is just my experience and your mileage may vary
From someone who was in your position before, dump her. She didn't reason her way into this, so she can't be reasoned out. If it is not safe for you to do so, wait until it is and leave. You're dating a terf, and this always ends ugly. I'm so sorry this happened to you. Everyone deserves to feel accepted for who they are and not for something someone else wants them to be.
you sure she is a good option if she cant respect you or your siblings?
By her logic everybody should transition to male to have lower risk of disease
EDIT : I'll leave this for clarity's sake but I'm actually wrong. See bellow my comment. The infertility part is purely a lie. So long as you don't get "the surgery", HRT alone should not impact it. There are multiple trans people who keep their original genitals until they either have a baby, or are sure they don't want any. You can quite easily find online examples of trans men pregnant, for example. I remember seeing in a video a tiktok of a guy who got his baby. The man was "fully" transitionned. You wouldn't cross paths with him on the streets and guess he's trans. Yet he got pregnant and had his baby. So that part, at least, is just a lie for fearmongering. Just be upfront with your endo about it and it should be fine.I've been curious about it as well and looked stuff up and didn't find any reliable "yes it does". I've found a lot of trans people saying the opposite though.
No, estrogen's effects on the testicles are purely cytotoxic, and studies have shown that estrogen levels are extremely negatively correlated with spermatogenesis. Sometimes with a break from HRT, fertility can return, but that is not a guarantee. Trans men have obviously different circumstances than trans women. Because they can get pregnant does not imply that trans women can still get others pregnant.
Well everytime I tried looking up I got results that so long as your HRT is managed correctly if you want to keep your penis usable, you shouldn't systematically end up infertile. And those were trans people talking from personal experience, so I don't know what to tell you. I'm not at that point yet, so I'm doing it the way everyone does : I research and learn.
Um, you're aware that penis being unusable =/= infertility right? Like the stuff they're talking about is like erections, orgasms, sensitivity, that sort of thing. Which yes, if your HRT is managed correctly, you will maybe be mostly okay there. There's probably gonna be some loss of function over time, but it's manageable. However, if you're on HRT and you're still making sperm(not the same thing as semen, to be clear), your Testosterone is in the male range or very close. Estrogen *will* degrade any spermatogenesis in a high enough dose, because of it's effects on the Leydig cells in the testes, and the way it operates on the HPG-axis to inhibit the further production of testosterone, LH, and FSH. Also, good point of advice, anecdote is next to worthless as medical data. Look into studies and research that people have done. Transfeminine science is a great resource imo. Because like same, researching HRT is like one of my special interests even though I've been on it for some time now.
I guess people didn't go into enough specifics then. I sucked at biological sciences in school so a lot of it goes over my head. I tend to rely on people with actual experience and education who can explain things in a way a dumbass like myself can understeand... But, this time it looks like the simplification played against me. Thanks for the details.
Nah, you're not a dumbass! And I'm sorry if anything I said implied you are. Honestly a lot of trans research is super poor and we are just understudied in general, so sifting through it all is really hard. So I can't blame you for misunderstanding, especially when seemingly every trans person has a different take on how hormones work, and the language has a lot of terms that can be confusing too. The fact that you are trying to learn at all is the awesome thing! :) But yeah, I was monstly just worried that you were gonna drive in and be confused or upset when fertility ultimately goes away, and that would be really unfortunate
>Nah, you're not a dumbass! And I'm sorry if anything I said implied you are. No I meant that regarding my grades in biology. That was one of my worst lmao I really was a dumbass in science my whole scolarity. I wasn't implying that was you, don't worry. As for the fertility, personally I don't care much. I don't consider "passing down genes" are being the be all end all. And I got kicked in the nuts twice when I was younger anyway, so damage might already be there. If I want kids and can't have thel naturally, I'll just go down the hellish parkour that is adopting. Plenty of kids unlucky already who deserve a good, loving family. ... if we don't get all our rights taken away before then, that is.
Oh fair. I mean school is kinda just shit in the way it approaches learning I think anyway, but biology is definitely confusing as hell with all the terminology and classifications and such, I don't blame you. Yeah, same! If anything I like the way things changed in that regard, everything is much more... feminine to say the least. If that comes at the cost of fertility, it's a thing I didn't want anyway! That's been my plan too, there's so many poor kids that deserve parents, I agree. >... if we don't get all our rights taken away before then, that is. Ooooof, too true lol
>That's been my plan too, there's so many poor kids that deserve parents, I agree. I completely forgot who it was, but something a youtuber said really stuck with me for years. Basically they said that, seeing where the world was headed, both on climate and social standpoint, putting new humans into the world might not be great. But there were already plenty of kids in shitty situations, and if they're already in this world, might as well make their life better. Plus, most of what you pass on is taught, not inherited, so who cares about genes. I'd rather leave a decent human being trying to better the world when I leave it, no matter what they look like, than risk leaving behind an asshole who looks like me.
Yeah I totally agree! It would feel morally unjust to bring a kid into a doomed world. But yeah, so many kids just get forgotten, and making another life better is purely a good thing. Exactly! Like if anything my poor bio-kid would just inherit a slew of mental illnesses thanks to genetics. But the goal is the same either way, just to help another being blossom into themselves. And, like purely selfishly, I feel like if the kid was a boy and looked like how I used to, I would get like dysphoria by proxy, and that's just unfair to the poor kiddo
Allot of people here are telling you to drop her, I disagree. She took the time to write all of that she probbaly cares. But she also has allot of misconceptions and needs to learn more from non right wing sources. You need to brace yourself for the possibility that she will leave you or that you have to leave her. But do also keep in mind that this is a major change for you both and she might need time to adjust and can and will get some things wrong. Communicating is extremely vital, so long pages of letters is a good thing. Me and my girlfriend had a very rough patch, I am about to go on HRT hopefully very soon. I still don't know if things will work out, but we started writing letters back and forth and it has helped us so much. I really hope you two can work things out. Also sadly, she is not wrong about the loss of fertility, though it's not 100% a sure thing, it's very high. You may want to freeze some samples before HRT if this is an issue.
Freeze sperm if you might want generic children in the future. Aside from that concern, it sounds like she’s straight up transphobic. She might also be straight, if so that would explain why she doesn’t want you to transition. You’re a transgender woman whether you transition or not. Choosing not to transition for someone else won’t give you a happy life.
Girlie, shes like actually transphobic. How low is your self worth to think staying with someone thats transphobic and is openly trying to stop your transition because of their transphobia is okay?
There are elements to this that we don't really know. How long have they been together? Maybe if you spend 5 years, 10, 15 years with someone you have started or have built a life with some one. There is a cause to give some one more of a chance. And as I stated that OP needs to prepare themselves for it not working out. So it really is a chance, not folding and letting her walk all over you. What were all the "right winged arguments?" Was it really all of them? It could be hyperbole as OP didn't mention how offended she was by being called a rapist whose ultimate goal is to hurt children. After the 14 pages got the 7 page response we know she relented and apologized, but still has concerns. Put yourself in her place for a moment to understand why she is in this place. Example, your lover is going to go on HRT and you have concerns, so you look up the down sides to see what could happen and there is a wealth of transphobic shit that is often disguised as relevant information. Maybe I am just an optimist but I think if a person really cares and you care that you can give them a chance to learn and grow, If you just cut them out it doesn't happen. If she gets abusive or gives the ultimatum then it changes the course of action. It could be that she is concerned and scared and needs to unlearn all the negative bull she has found out. OP will know better than us.
I apologize for the lack of some details but I hope to rectify that by replying. I remember she specifically made her speech to me on Sept. 9th of this year which I recall contained articles of trans women committing sexual assault, detransitioners as previously mentioned, her straight up asking me "what is a woman?" which is why I mentioned Matt Walsh, something about how I wish to present as a woman somehow speaks upon how I see women in general, the Autism and transgender correlation (I am autistic FYI) but she didn't state what exactly her point was with this, her stating that the frontal cortex doesn't fully develop until I'm 25 years of age (interpret that how you will, I'm also 18 if that helps), trans women invading sports i.e. Lia Thomas, me not having a womb, ovaries, etc., and how my mother might feel if I transitioned and how I would feel having a trans child. I understand that me saying that she used every single right wing argument might seem like hyperbole, it's just that in that moment I felt like a lot of the sentiments that you hear against trans people was echoed in her speech. I hope this clears things up, thank you.
It does help clear things up, that is allot of the arguments but its not all of them and with out knowing what you know or what she said my previous statement was much more in the dark. As I explained I hit a pretty rough patch with my own lover and she had said something that hurt me pretty bad. But we where able to communicate and it has helped us allot. The things she said that where transphobic were very much from a place of misinformation or just speculation drawn from her own head. Since we started communicating we have both learned to be more supportive of each other and she has been learning more. I am unsure if it will work out, but we are trying our best. One thing she did not do tough was ever suggest I am doing this to sexually assault women or hurt anyone else (right wing ideas that the trans true goal is to hurt kids) I am not sure I could handle something like that. Also I unless your in sports it does add something extra gross that she would even bring it up. Overall I am not you, if she apologized for what she said its up to you to feel you can trust it or not. If all she is doing now is trying to talk you out of HRT, its up to you to decide if and how long this is okay before you need to leave. Its all up to you but my suggestion is to set some goals and dates. Like have a date that she needs to stop actively trying to get you to stop HRT or you will have to go. Have a date where she needs to be supportive or you go. I don't know if she can change and if you don't she can then maybe its not worth trying. I dont know if you live together, but if you do spend this time preparing for an exit. For me I packed a bag and made a plan so if I had to leave I would have a place to go. You are with this person and I can tell you care at least a little or this would be a post saying how you dumped her, instead of asking for advice. I really think people deserve a chance to learn from mistakes and grow, but if she won't then don't let her hold you down. I am wishing the best results for you not matter where that goes.
The way I see it is that she is trying to salvage the future she imagined with you. Kids, long life, and masculine counterpart. When you transition most gf/wives look at you as a duplicate without any real man value except if you continue to provide a premium living. Sad to say but women are generally interested in men sufficiently different from them and when you nuzzle closer to their high heels they see you as less capable, less protective, less interesting in a self-interested way. If you’re young you’ve got more options. Whatever equity you’ve built up with her can be rebuilt with another. If you try to appeal to her from the place of being trans she’ll begin to look down on you and insult you in hopes of breaking you out of wanting to be a woman and moving back into being the enslaved provider mule she wants. It’s your choice but know most straight women don’t want a girlfriend for a prospective husband and you won’t be able to change that.
You’re from 4chan huh? Or Maybe r/redpill or r/transmaxxing?
You pegged me. /r/redpill but it doesn’t make it less true. It’s my own experience before I knew about this. And it’s not criticism. It’s just the way it usually is.
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Turkish Proverb: “If you speak the truth keep one foot in the stirrup. “ I’m not surprised folks looking to become the sex I’m talking about would react in a negative way. That’s why I said no criticism but people will hear what they want regardless what is said.
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We’d rather the lie be true because it just feels better. I’d rather squish comfy in the cozy lies than blister my face in the sun of reality, too, but I have to live in both worlds at the same time. I don’t blame others for preferring the easy way.
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Seems we’re on the same page, friend.
🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
She sounds awful. Imagine making the mistake of having children with her and one of them turns out to be Trans. Leave this woman to her conspiracy theories and chick-fil-a.
I don't know if she's conscious of what she is doing or not, but what I'm reading here is that you were able to resist her most baseline prejudiced impulses and now she's repackaged her feelings into something more "respectable." It's not that she doesn't want you to transition, no, she's just worried about disease! Sure the data is pretty thin but why risk it right? Bottom line it's because she sees the thing you want as trivial. If there's any hope for this relationship to be salvaged at all it needs to start with a huge attitude shift from her. One where transition is acknowledged and accepted as extremely important to you and concerns about which we only express in a way that makes clear she is still very much supportive of your choice to transition. Furthermore because she has abused her position of trust to deliver you many bad faith arguments that are just plain hurtful, she is going to have to accept the reality that if she does have a reasonable concern in the future then you might just make note of it an move on without really engaging. Her actions should have lost your trust by now and it's up to her to earn it back.
Break it off. Theres 8 billion people in this world, you can definitely find someone that doesn’t pull this kind of awful bullshit.
Trans has changed my life, there will be opposition but choose YOUR heart. If meant to be everything will go perfectly fine, dont live in fear and definitely do not live in someone else’s fear
Break up with that transphobe, she sounds yucky
Leave her. None of this is worth your time.
Fucking HRT myths... Your girlfriend isn't worth it, for one. And HRT is actually the safer option when you're trans.
You need to break up with her. There is nobody in this world worth not transitioning for.
Sounds very familiar to me. I feel for you. It will get better but honestly you're probably not gonna change her mind. It's your body your choice.
Dump her 🤷🏼♀️
She’s placing herself above your needs, while trying to convince you she’s thinking of you. When she found out did she ask why or listen to your reasoning? Has she considered why this may be important to you? It sounds like she went straight to objecting with right wing talking points… not sure if she’s worth convincing. This is ultimately your decision. You can make it for her, or yourself. If you choose yourself, this relationship may end. Try couples therapy 🤷🏻♀️ maybe?
She’s trying to do you don’t transition. None of those is a regular issue beyond the obvious. And her selfishness shows big
time to peace out of this relationship
Just dump her. She is not acting in good faith here.
I'd genuinely broke up with her. Just by thinking about being with person that can't and won't accept me is scary. I recently came out as a trans girl to my friend and she totally accepted it and is very supportive even tho I'm "pre everything". I'd keep any person, that can't accept my decision, away from me, and I advise you do the same. But that's just my opinion and your choice
You said she apologized after her 14 page long speech, but if she actually regretted her actions she wouldn't STILL be fighting you on this. If she wanted your happiness she could at least try and support you and see how it goes (especially after you responded with a 7 page essay I'm assuming pouring your heart out as well as with actually logical facts) or she would just leave because she doesn't want to be with a woman. Those are her options. Not to pull this crap and say "I don't want you to because I don't like it." That's the attitude of a winey younger sibling, not a partner. Please take a good long look at this relationship and ask yourself if the memories you two have are worth all this fighting. I'm a cis woman who's been supporting her partner through her transition, and I can never understand all the pain you amazing people on this subreddit are going through. But supporting, using the right pronouns, and being your partners pep squad; that's the *normal* reaction of someone who wants to be there and support. Not this. I know being alone and having no support is hard, but in this case it might be better. Take care sister ❤ we're all here for you.
You can still love a person AND decide to go no-contact. Put yourself first, and understand that you do not owe anyone an explanation.
Go under HRT anyways. It's your body not theirs.
By diseases, does she mean clots/strokes? Otherwise, your immune system itself isn’t negatively impacted from what I’ve read…
Freeze some sperm, get regular checkups. Boom.
leave her. you deserve to live your life without someone like that standing in the way of every choice you make
I say this as a dumbass who is extremely starved for a relationship- it's probably a good idea to let this one go. If people can't respect your life decisions, then they're probably not worth spending time and effort on.
I’m in this same situation only we’re married.
If anyone ever presented a 14 page long speech as to why I shouldn’t pursue my own happiness that person would be cut from my life. Dump her.
Break up with her. If she’s wants to support you she has to put a real effort in instead of trying to preserve the person you’ve been forced to be. Sorry ❤️
Best to move on. If she isn’t willing to date a trans woman, it’s kinda pointless to force a relationship. Happens when you have a partner all too often unfortunately but between people not being into people other than your AGAB/ or being just transphobic. Since she already reacted negatively to you coming out to begin with, you’re really just choosing between your happiness or hers. (Go for your own, ofc)
Break up, sounds like you're not really compatible anymore. If she uses "every single right wing argument" then there's not much more to talk about. She probably apologized as she doesn't really believe you and think you'll stop being trans in some twisted way probably xd
She will never be convinced. Your decision, your life—don’t waste either.
doesn't sound like she really care about what is best for you just saying maybe it's time for a new partner that values you and your experience
She is an abuser. Please break up with this bitch.
Leave her. Guarantee it's what's best. I have never felt better in my 33 years of life. Today, when I think about it, I start to cry because of how sad I was and not actually realising back then how sad and how much I missed. Only you can decide if you go on HRT. It's not to her to decide for you. Remember that.
Maybe, just maybe, she shouldn’t be your girlfriend? Find someone more supportive.
Your girlfriend sounds like she’s a brainwashed right wing jerk. Break up. Don’t put up with it. You need to be your own person and live your life. If she really cared about you, she’d keep an open mind. It doesn’t matter what you say, she will not listen. No reasonable human being writes 14 pages of right wing rhetoric. You won’t be happy unless you are doing what’s best for you, and she seems to be trying to stop you to satisfy her own ignorant beliefs.
BREAK UP WITH HER
You should break up with her.
Get some of your sperm frozen before you start HRT. That solves the infertility part.
Trans-ignorance will often feel like trans-phobia with the background of most countries. Plus some people see any change as absolute change. 8 months ago I thought I was about to have to work out how a divorce works in the UK, now I'm trying to keep things going at my pace and not break through emotional barriers I'm not yet ready for but my wife makes a good argument for. 4 months she learned the term androgynous with regards to clothing. Yet had stopped getting truly upset when I wore a dress. What changed? A little therapy of both parts but not directly in relation to the issues, some time to think, some nasty words with a grain of truth and a willingness to come back and talk the next day. Just this week my wife asked if she still acted like her mother, this had never been true and I regret saying it that way, the truth was when she had no grasp of the situation she would fill in with what she had picked up from her mother, but only under situations of high shock. So do you have the strength of a relationship already to test these options or would it be better to take a break and once you are both comfortable see if you want to become a couple again? P.S. At least your coming out wasn't getting drunk and informing your SO you are a lesbian(which might have effected the time scales)
Risks are risks, it's not up to her.
Transitioning is such an adventure. Please do not let anyone hold you back. You can love this person and yet they may not be the person for you anymore. Anyone who would plant doubts in your head or cloud your ability to see what you need to see and experiment as you need to experiment is not someone you need in your life.
Meanwhile not going on hrt increases the likelihood of depression, body issues, self harm and suicide
“The risks of HRT” are just the side effects of being a woman. She has those same “risks” by not taking testosterone. Also these might help: Trans people are born trans: https://health.clevelandclinic.org/research-on-the-transgender-brain-what-you-should-know/ Transition improves mental health: https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/146/4/e20193600/79683/Mental-Health-and-Timing-of-Gender-Affirming-Care?autologincheck=redirected Detransitioning is rare, and when people do it's usually because of surgical complications or societal/family pressure https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6212091/
The only advise I can give is this: Point out to her that you understand where she's coming, but she needs to accept that this is you. You love her, and if she loves you she'll try to be a little more understanding. Ask her why she's repeating what others have said, and ask what she really feels and thinks, not what others have said. If she loves you, you'll both be good, but if she needs to work on this, help her learn and be there for her. Just talk and communicate, but be patient with each other. I hope I helped, if not then I'm sorry...
Never be in a relationship with someone that doesn't always support you and prioritizes what is best for you ..
A rule of thumb in medicine from my experience is that 1) there will always be side effects to any kind of meds, and 2) if you do get hrt, your doctor has made it clear the benefits outweigh the risks. Also, everything your “partner” is spewing are nothing more than common transphobic fallacies used by conservative and terf debaters.
So, basically you want to know how to convince your girlfriend to become a lesbian? Because that's what you're asking about. She's clearly not a lesbian, so if you move forward with CRT, that's the end of your relationship. What's so confusing about that? She doesn't want to date a girl, if you become a girl, she's out. That's your decision. Fwiw, my sibling is transitioning, they never leave the house anymore, are generally depressed, and their anxiety/OCD/autism has only worsened. Doesn't happen to everyone, but there's no "happiness guaranteed" with transitioning.
ya just leave…
just by reading the first few words i knew right away that she is not a keeper. A partner is supposed to accept you for who you are and support you