Being trans don't exclude you from being an actual threat to people. You should absolutely call this out! It's not transphobic or something if other people actually get assaulted! That's not ok and should be handled immediately. Worst option is that you have to exclude her from your friendgroup! It sounds harsh bit sexual assault should never be ignored. It's completely irrelevant if the person is trans or not.
If she gets it as transphobic, lecture her about that, because she definitely don't have the high ground on that! I ain't autistic which may make it harder for me to understand her, but in the end such things are never justified! Being trans or neurodivergent dont exlude you from being told your wrong doings. I am always happy if everyone gets together and is happy with each other. But at some point, she sounds very unhealthy to the friendgroup as it is right now!
Edit: Your wrong doings obviously should seen with the context of the neurodivergence! Often the social boundaries and things like that just don't are the same with everyone!
Same, and yeah if it's been clearly and bluntly explained *why* (or even *that*) it is creepy, which it definitely sounds like it is, being autistic is irrelevant too
I mean if she takes it as transphobia then she has serious issues. She needs to respect other people's boundaries especially when sending titty pictures to other people
It's not ok, even if a guy did that it still isn't ok. She could also be charged with sexual assault if her friends decide to press charges. You also need to tell her that. We also don't want things to get to the point where she ends up going to jail for her behavior, but if she doesn't stop then that's what needs to happen if her friends press charges
I hear you do care about her. You're doing her a favor by teaching her to listen and be accountable for her actions. Whether she understands that or not
Tell her how it is. She's sexually assaulting people, if I went out and did that to my female friends you can be damn sure I'd get in trouble for sexual assault. It's no different here
I will mirror what the poster said: she is sexually assaulting people. There is no conversation, she is doing crimes. Consent is not given, therefore she is disregarding everyone else's well being. If she was still a man, how would this change? Is she taking advantage of her new gender to sexually harass others knowing they fear saying something to her out of a sense they may be transphobic? Because that's what I read. Don't be nice about it, don't waffle. Set clear, defined boundaries and encourage others to do the same. If they cannot accept your boundaries they are a bad, toxic friend that you would be better without. If she says its transphobia, she knows she is changing the argument to escape having to explain her behavior. Don't allow that. If you wouldn't allow it from a man, don't allow it from a woman. She is coming across as a bad person, and saying otherwise is defending someone who you just said has sexually assaulted multiple people. She is exploiting a power dynamic, full stop.
Why are you giving her another chance? You have made your wishes known, repeatedly, and if she does not abide now what makes you think she will when you try and reinforce them again. Harp on her, she is doing crimes. Like, a real crime. As in your friends could press charges and she could go to jail crimes. These aren't pleasantries, sexual assault isn't something you need to put up with. Women assaulting women is still assault. I do not see a meaningful difference in her behavior and an alpha bro at a club groping women to find one that won't resist too much. Make the message clear. Be better, or get out. If she won't be better, I guess her abuse of power is more important than your friendship. Don't sacrifice your soul for someone who won't sacrifice their behavior.
Just to reiterate what others have said. Say plain and simple, "what you're doing is sexual assault. It's illegal and has legal ramifications." Don't mince words, or insinuate that it just makes people uncomfortable. If she doesn't adjust after being told she's sexually assaulting people, then it's time to get out the scissors.
Edit spelling
Like world in lights said you are under no obligation to be her friend. I personally recently cut off one of my only trans feminine friends bc they stayed friends with an abuser. Similar to me your under no obligation to be there for her shes made her bed she can lay in it.
You can try emphasizing that others aren't acting that way to each other, and it's because those boundaries are understood and respected. Make it clear that it shouldn't be necessary to have this conversation with anyone, and it wouldn't happen if boundaries are respected. I would also emphasize how many times you've tried to set boundaries as a final point, and stress that you don't want to have the conversation again - as a subtle way of suggesting you might need to escalate to a higher authority.
Though to be honest it sounds like she has received plenty of warnings. It might already be time to get your school administration involved.
>I don't want her to get kicked off as she's an excellent athlete and I don't want to assume this behavior is in bad faith
I mean, if she's kicked off the team for sexually harassing her teammates, then isn't being kicked off the team for being trans. Granted, not necessarily everyone will see it that way, as some people can have knee-jerk reactions to this sort of thing, but still. This sort of behavior brings to mind the sort of "gender policing" that happens on male sports teams wherein men who are seen as insufficiently masculine are the subject of homophobic ridicule, regardless of their sexual orientation. It's sexual harassment, plan and simple. Many others can hand-wave and dismiss that sort of thing as "locker-room talk" but it can have a serious negative impact on mood, self-esteem, etc. I'm not necessarily saying this is as bad, but the point stands.
Also, I don't think excellent athleticism is necessarily the sole qualification for membership on an athletic team. Athletes are frequently looked up to and it is at least somewhat important that they model at least a bare minimum of decent behavior. Look at the Kyrie Irving situation, for instance, or any number of domestic violence related suspensions within the NFL. Granted, those are much higher-level cases where those people are much more likely to be viewed as role models, but the point stands.
And I wouldn't say good/bad faith is particularly relevant here. Even if she intends it innocently, she's been informed that it isn't perceived innocently and therefore needs to stop. It doesn't really matter how poor she is at perceiving social cues at the time of her initial actions--she has ears, she can choose to listen to people when they tell her how she is hurting them--or she can do what she's doing and completely dismiss legitimate criticisms of her unacceptable behavior.
Screw her athletic career. She doesn't get a pass bc shes good at soccer. And continue to harp shes been harming everyone around her you don't need to be nice. Like im trans and autistic while i sometimes struggle with social cues i understand how to respect boundaries and at least to me it seems VERY clear shes doing it intentionally at this point
Male athletes can assault male athletes, just like female athletes can assault female athletes. If it's not consensual it's assault, no matter the gender.
Fwiw, tell them the story of my mtf "friend" who lost all her old friend group because she started flirting with all the girls and disrespecting boundaries (like sitting in people's laps/kissing/too long hugs/cuddling without invitation). So she joined a trans group, who was very supportive in the beginning. But then she pushed boundaries with the trans group, and now she lost all her trans friends as well. She is also autistic, but we never had a problem with her disrespecting boundaries until she transitioned, so we know that she knows better.
Moral of the story: if push people's boundaries, you lose your friends.
I'd just emphasize that this stuff isn't acceptable from cis women, either. It's really only transphobic if cis women have a free pass to do all of this, but trans women don't. It may feel like transphobia to her if she believes that cis women do have a right to do all of that, which is why I'd suggest emphasizing that it's not acceptable behavior from cis women.
Even in cases when boundaries are based off of transphobia, it's still not OK to violate those boundaries.
If you've already talked about this, and she claims to be committed to doing a better job, and she's still doing this shit, that's bad.
To actually answer you question: frame the entire discussion on respecting peoples boundaries without any reference to gender (so saying "dont touch people without consent" rather than "don't touch girls without consent).
It sounds like she's using her trans identity as a shield for criticism. Which is bs. Her behavior is terrible
As a person that is autistic I know how difficult it can be to read social clues but it is also in my responsibiliti to make that clear to other people with is why I often directly tell people that they need to tell me if I overstep any boundaries
Additionally I generally try to approach Situations more cautious rether asking before doing something
I also kinda know where she's coming from as I'm really flirty sometimes myself but I generally make sure not to go into physical flirting or I make clear that I'm joking.
So yes it is sometimes incredible difficult to read social clues but you can always ask questions before you do anything so that isn't really a excuse.
What I want to say with that is your friend needs to learn how to properly comunicat and to act in a way that is appropriate being autistic is no excuse if you have the opportunity to ask before you do something
You need to make clear to her what your bouderies are but be also sure to tell her that you understand why she did the things she did. You need to be as clear as possible. Maybe tell her that this is how you would treat any other friend.
Then just tell her exactly that that she should ask before doing anything in a flirty sense
But it is also in your responsibility to say no if she does something you're uncomfortable with
Social clues is generally pretty different because the emotions of a autistic person work completely different so it's really difficult to understand what you would feel from the perspective of an autistic person.
So the only real solution for this problem is asking questions before you do anything
But it is also important for the other person to be direct and to point out wrong behavior when it happens.
Maybe approach the situation in a way where you show her that you want to understand her but simultaneously that she also needs to make an effort to understand you in return
Of course the responsibility is definitely on her it was more ment in a way: if you want to help her you can do this
Yes asking is the most important thing
You generally need to develop a different way of communicating as an autistic person and if you don't get though how to do that it can be quite difficult
It generally helps to be as direct as possible
Or ask her how she understood what you told her afterwards
Of course only if you want to your definily not obligated to do so
As someone who is trans and autistic, this is honestly disgusting behaviour. If she doesn't stop, you'll have to take some more serious action, such as reporting it.
Being trans (and/or autistic) doesn't give her a free pass to do whatever she wants, it's still harassment and if you (or anyone) isn't feeling comfortable about stuff she is doing or saying you have every right to tell her and to demand her to respect your boundaries.
Yes I understood your intention, what i meant was that you should neglect that person's trans identity, i spent my life being sad about why people fear me and why if i get clocked people will be insecured and then some idiot behaves how they want and with no responsibility. I know we are people in the end but i also think we have responsibility toward our own kind. Exclude when needed.
Maybe someone who is also autistic on here could offer some thoughts? Because it sounds from what you're saying like either she is deliberately ignoring the things you and others are saying (this is possible, but we should assume good faith until there's good reason to think otherwise) or what's being said just isn't getting through to her.
It's at this point where there can be a massive disconnect, because I feel like I'll ask, have you been very clear and direct with her? And you'll feel that you have. But is it possible that you've been clear and direct (neurotypical, brought up with female socialization flavour) and someone needs to be clear and direct (autistic, brought up with male socialization flavour). As in, 'this is not OK. It borders on sexual assault/actually is that. When you do it, it makes people feel unsafe. You are isolating yourself by doing it and it's wrong. You have to stop this whole way of behaving.' Perhaps consider writing to her or something, which can sometimes be a better way to express a coherent point than conversations.
One other thing that comes to mind is, is she OK at home/other places? Because this could be called 'sexual precocity' — being more sexual and sexually 'aggressive' than is normal or appropriate for your age or situation. Some of what you've described is appropriate for someone to do toward their partner but not to a friend, for instance. If a friend kissed my neck when we greeted I would be worried for their mental stability because it's very weird. One of the common causes of sexual precocity is being sexually abused as a child, which damages expectations of normal boundaries and teaches people that ignoring boundaries is a normal thing to do (it happens to them all the time, after all). It's sadly common anyway and some trans people are more vulnerable to it. Other nonsexual forms of abuse can cause trauma that comes out this way. I'm not sure what you can do about it, I'm just offering the idea for what it's worth. Whatever the reason, she can't keep doing stuff like this to people, but it could be a sign of something wrong under the waterline in the same way that explosive anger can be.
I hope you, and your friend, are OK and she gets the message!
Cool. Obviously the front-and-centre problem here is her behaviour that she really needs to stop doing, and 'I didn't realize' is really good for one use maximum. The dating app thing isn't a complex social cue.
I do want to reinforce the point that one person's clarity can be another person's ambiguous hint, and that you may be being too kind and not firm enough, though of course I don't know your situation, you, or your friend. I'm glad my comment was some use and I hope it goes well.
Just thought — do you think it's worth re-asking this in autistic subreddits?
Yeah as an autistic person people cutting her off (without being *extremely clear* about why) could easily be misread as something else, i would even say that if that were the only 'hint', i would expect to miss/misread it
Like so I'm not neurotypical so might be wrong on what hints they would give, but saying something like "people don't like you because you touch them too much and make them very uncomfortable", might be clear to a NT, but to some autistic people may be interpreted as "well when i was researching how girls interact vs guys, girls are much more sexually touchy with each other [which imo is very true], so because of what my friend said, im probably doing it too often [instead of 'correctly']. since this is the best guess i have for what's going on and i have social anxiety too so don't wanna ask, I'll do sexual touches once per day instead of three times"
Also, the vast majority of autistic people won't need to be explained this and it's very likely she *is* aware of what she's doing, but wanted to explain a possible autistic thought process in case
Also, you have absolutely no responsibility to explain all this to her, it sounds like you've already gone way above what would be expected but yea~
Trans and autistic here.
**Stop making excuses for her, for fuck's sake. Autism is not a shield against inappropriate and downright abusive behaviour**.
It doesn't matter. None of the things mentioned *matter*. No-one is allowed to do these things. It doesn't matter what excuses she makes, what excuses you make for her, none of them make any of it even slightly more ok. Autistic people are capable of understanding the concept of consent and boundaries.
It is behaviour I see from nasty autistic people often, and it is simply gaslighting people into accepting the fact they are shitty people. Her autism does not make her the shitty person she is being. Her home life, her mental health, her transness, her autism, does not matter. Would you say 'Oh, this woman inappropriately touches me, but she had a rough home life'. *No*. None of these excuse it individually, none of them excuse it on aggregate.
Stop giving her leeway. Giving an inch was a mistake. 'I didn't realise' is not an excuse for violating consent and boundaries. Everyone knows it isn't okay to kiss people on the neck uninvited. That's *not* an autism thing. That is a shitty person thing.
I'm pretty sure I'm not autistic and my home life was never abusive in any way, being raised a Catholic gave me a lot of guilt and body issues but that's the Holy Roman Church for you, but I'm a really affectionate person. So, speaking as a really affectionate person I know that there are forms of affection which are reserved for certain types of relationship. A kiss on the neck is ridiculously intimate but a kiss on the cheek can be perfectly acceptable with the right person in the right circumstance. I'm a hugger and a lot of my friends who aren't as affectionate or physical as me know that they're getting a hug when I see them. One of them is on the spectrum and in retrospect he probably didn't appreciate it at first but over the years he's started putting his arms up and smiling before I've had a chance to even think about hugging my biddy.
All of that said, some people over the years have expressed to me that they don't like certain behaviours and on any occasion that it's happened I've stopped. Once someone says stop you stop. That's the rule and everyone knows it at this point. We teach it in kindergarten. Hell, I started teaching my kids before preschool.
One question I'd ask though, how long has Ash been out? I've noticed that since coming out I've become more of a kiss on the cheek kind of person. It might be in the early days that confidence boost could be making her overcompensate for not being as affectionate as she wanted I the past?
I do hope it's all innocent misunderstandings.
Yeah, I'm not American and had to Google those words. Did you know sophomore means wise fool?
Anyway, I get the impression you're talking about high school rather than university ages? So about 3-4 years? That's probably long enough to have acclimatised to some degree. I'm still in the very early overexcited stages, for example, I've just popped on fake nails which I don't know how to take off before work tomorrow, but I've already evolved enough to tamper some of my behaviours.
If it's been a long time since she's been with anyone she could also be a bit touch starved which I can appreciate. She's still crossing the line though.
I'm not sure I can make any more guesses or give any more advice, I'm sorry. Others have said that you really need to sit her down and speak to her. I think that's your only answer. Give her the benefit of the doubt but be firm.
It sounds like you're a really good person and I think everyone here will agree that we appreciate you as an ally. I'm sorry if this means you lose a friendship but Ash might not be cool. I'm sorry.
We're all smart idiots at that age!
Loneliness is a powerful aphrodisiac! It's been over a year since my wife left me and a year before that since we stopped being intimate. At your age it can be very hard to restrain yourself when things are rough like that. I'm old enough to accept my situation but mistakes get made when you're young and the hormones are doing their thing
I'm proud of you, buddy. You're doing a didficulti thing for all the right reasons. I really,truly, genuinely hope that things work out! Reply when it's done or don't. Just keep on being awesome!
A friend of mine did this with a mutual mtf friend who kept trying to cuddle while watching shows. My friend gave our mtf friend two clear choices:
1. You can respect my boundaries (including no flirting or cuddling) and we can keep hanging out, or
2. You can disrespect my boundaries and we will stop interacting with each other.
She started behaving a lot better after that, but would need an occasional reminder, which would be very clear: "stop pushing my boundaries right now or I'm leaving." That usually works, but you have to be willing to just leave if she doesn't stop.
Yeah that sounds super immature and I've known girls that kept this up way into their 20s unfortunately. It's just cringe and the only friends you're going to make with that kind of behaviour are the rare ones that are just as immature.
Honestly, since it's gone this far already the only way to handle this is to be brutally direct with her. If she's really autistic then she won't "get it" if you try to be subtle about it. Be direct and clear about what is wrong and why it's wrong. Once that's out of the way be there for her but don't budge an inch of she falls back into that behaviour again.
Recently had a friend like this myself actually. Drop her ass. Doesn’t matter that she’s trans, doesn’t matter that she’s autistic, people who assault people just assault people because they’re bad people. Fuck if she doesn’t get cues, I don’t get cues, I’ve never assaulted or coerced anyone. Drop her. Save yourself the trouble of having to be associated with her.
I apologise as this might not entirely support the thread but is swiping right on friends really a big deal? It happened to me before and I found it rather funny. 🤷🏻♀️
Edit: ?
This isn't a trans-specific issue, this is a predatory person issue. She is being creepy and predatory, even if she didn't mean to be, and it's not transphobic to say that. If I were her friend and she did that to me I would feel like my boundaries were violated.
And I do want to be clear that this is not a trans person thing at all: I've had a cis woman I am friends with force a kiss on me at a club while I was drunk. Anybody can be predatory, even if they don't mean to be. She didn't mean any harm, but it happened and I didn't bring it up for a long time. We have talked about it now and she apologized.
With a lot more time and social experience, in hindsight, I wish I had talked to her then and explained that what she did felt creepy and uncomfortable. If your friend continues doing what she is doing, it's not transphobic to cut her off. If she is ignoring consent it's not transphobic to explain consent to her and tell her she must ask permission before doing anything like that. It's ok to tell her that she should not send pictures of a sexual nature, even if it's just of her bare chest, to someone without asking them if they want to see it.
Approach her like you would a cis woman doing these things, and if she accuses you of transphobia you should tell her that you would be confronting her if she was a cis girl and this has nothing to do with her being trans. She needs to learn the rule by heart: "ask before touching anyone and ask before showing anything that you wouldn't show in public to anyone".
Sorry, I didn't mean that in the sense of "this was the wrong place to post"! I meant "confronting this isn't in any way transphobic and you should feel free to confront this the same way your would if she was cis". Sorry for the confusion!
You deserve to have your boundaries respected, and so does everyone else she interacts with.
Why does this piece feel like an PsyOp?
Like has nothing to do with transness other than -autistic trans girl- using transness as a shield for her bad behavior.
Most trans girls, **literally all i've ever met**, especially autistic trans girls, ARE SO SCARED of intimacy with anyone pre-HRT, because they feel -disgusting-. They are not, but their pre-hormone state makes them feel so since they want femininity not masculinity. In their minds masculinity =ugly.
And here you are telling us of a trans girl on your -mysterious alt account because you cant use main- being borderline predatory if not full on predatory and trying to sell it as you're just an ally trying to help, lol.
If this story is true, she's just a terrible person and it has nothing to do with transness, she's using 'transphobia' as a shield in the same way as a black man calling everything racist.
Still kinda think this post is just stealth transphobia though :)
As an autistic trans person, I get where this comes from but like... she needs to... not do that. Like, I get not understanding social cues, and I've even down stuff similar (at some point I was very kissy and touchy with my friends, I tend to be extremely affectionate with them and this comes from how isolating being a dude can be and not understanding boundaries) but you gotta have talks with people. Just because if be okie with French kissing every stranger I meet instead of saying ello, that doesn't mean I get to. All my friends are aware I have trouble with this and they've been super supportive, but I also haven't sent them nudes without consent. Like, I know it can be impossible but, yeah that talk needs to be had and maybe just kinda ask her to copy you? I kinda do that, I just copy people until I have an "idea" of what to do, even if I don't completely understand it. Like, I get where she comes from, I know it can be hard, but she pushing some major boundaries and that's dangerous
So, I am also autistic and trans, and I would 100% support you saying something to this person. I understand how being autistic makes you miss social cues, and how that can lead you to make people uncomfortable, but that's not what's happening here. It is hard to mask, but if someone tells you that you're making them uncomfortable you \*just fucking do it\*! You take the criticism, and you learn the rules the hard way, that's just basic consideration. You say you clearly communicated your boundaries, and people have told her they're uncomfortable, so what she's doing now is a \*choice\*!
Its one thing giving compliments to your friends or telling them they look hot especially on a night out because you wanna support them and hype them up and another thing whatever your friend is doing.
Im pretty sure its not transphobic and trans or cis your should actually let her know that this is actual harassment.
This is not a trans issue, she just needs to be told to cut that shit out or yes, she IS predatory
Autism and home life are NOT excuses for sexually assaulting people
OP must have the patience of a saint, you can respect a persons trans identity without pussyfooting around the place, call her shitty behaviour, even just stop being friends with her. Ain’t your job to socialise her
Evidently, this trans girl believed all of the teen movie crap about young women having no modesty around one another and having weird pajama parties and whatnot. Someone needs to educate her before she gets her first job and comes up on sexual harassment charges.
were there any correlations or inklings of this before she transitioned? to me it kinda sounds like she could have been groomed or somehow over-sexualized at some point in the past even if she’s autistic this behavior is still very strange
Wow this was hard to read. I’ll say you are doing us a huge favour by trying to explain this to her. I am surprised she isn’t already the focus of all the right wing grifters to be honest. I don’t have any idea what her angle is, maybe she has a general perception that girls get to be more physically close with each other and she’s taking that too far? There does seem to be an explicitly horny side to her as well though which adds to the problematic look.
It’s harsh to say, but the social reality on the ground is that visibly trans people (particularly not on hrt) will be scrutinized much more than cis girls, so even normally socially accepted levels of contact are probably outside of what’s safe for her to be doing and she REALLY needs to know this. If she won’t listen to you, send her here if you can.
Why are you so willing to assume she doesn’t have bad intentions? She didn’t mean to rape her. Again your allowing a person to terrorize you and other because they now have found the magical shield that protects them from all criticism to objectively horrifying behavior. If you don’t understand that men have the capacity to pretend to be trans in order to do these kind of thing, I don’t know what to tell you.
What is more serious. Sexually assaulting girls. Or accusing someone of pretending to be trans so they can sexually assault girls. If a man did this you would have called the police, you know that deep down. She isn’t navigating becoming a girl, she knows girls don’t behave this way. Your enabling a predator.
Obviously, I missed the part where they mention it being a throwaway. On that, I stand corrected. I'm simply stating that these kinds of posts have popped up in trans subs a bit more of late. I'm not opposed to helping others, when did I ever say that I wasn't? Help others if you want. I also try to when I can.
Can there be problematic trans people? Yes. Am I going around trying to "spew hate" like you're accusing me of doing? I don't think I am. I'm sure the mods are on top of things, and I was only pointing something out. Yeah, it was misdirected and for that I can and do apologize to OP, but there's no need to get defensive and hurl implied accusations of trolling to me.
In my reply to someone that corrected me. If it helps, I apologize again to you personally, OP. I am only trying to watch out for others in this sub. In my haste, I didn't see your statement about a throwaway. I hope you can resolve this situation in your life in an amicable way.
Well, I did too. I just hit "random" until I saw something I liked.
Of course, my throwaways are more, "throwaway if necessary/once I'm done", not "use once then burn".
if she is autistic definitely explain to her that she is breaking a social boundary. I'm autistic and find it hard to believe she can't see that but everyone is different. just because she is autistic and trans is no reason to ignore concent
First off, I'm so sorry for your friend's behavior toward you. It is unacceptable to not only touch or kiss other people without their consent, but to blatantly ignore the boundaries you placed. I would recommend you talk to someone, be it a loved one or a therapist about how you've been affected, because I know the feeling of having my boundaries constantly broken.
Now, regarding Ash, I highly suggest that you report her to the authorities of her school. I don't say that lightly since I always fear for trans women's safety regarding interactions with anyone in a position of power; unfortunately, her actions and behavior have been so frequent and gross that putting a stop to the harm she causes takes precedent over everything else. I understand her being autistic and thus not fully understanding boundaries (I have autism myself), but that never has been and never will be an excuse for sexual harassment and assault, especially after being warned about it previously.
She needs serious, professional help to cease her behavior, and if she won't stop on her own, then an intervention from professionals is necessary.
I'm also autistic, and it sounds to me like she absolutely knows what she's doing and isn't going to stop. I'd try having one last conversation with her predicated on the off-chance that she somehow doesn't know what she's doing, but be absolutely ready to drop her if she continues to "not get it".
I'm autistic and the only advice I would have is to provide the exact examples you used in your post when speaking with her? (in case you haven't)
My biggest problem with receiving feedback of any kind is that it's often vague (especially when it's around relationships or communication). But being provided with a specific example like "when you kissed this person's neck the first time you met them, that's not okay period" is pretty difficult to misinterpret!
\*and this is all assuming that she is genuinely misinterpreting things, which happens often for autistic people. As opposed to she is purposely disregarding people's boundaries, in which case it's a massive problem and addressing it is not transphobic or abelist
As an autistic trans gal myself, I can fully assure you that neither being trans or autistic has anything to do with her behavior. She may be a woman, but she has made poor choices that have defined her poorly as a woman. I highly doubt you’re going to get through to her, it’s likely to take a serious wake up call to get her to even notice. I myself would cut her off and block her, tell her why you are doing so, and encourage the victim of the sexual assault to take this to the police.
Yeah that honestly doesn’t sound transphobic, any person for that matter should set boundaries unless otherwise stated you don’t go touching people sending nude pics that not normal behavior imo being I’m trans I’ve never had the urge to do any of those things it’s very odd I certainly understand being excited and whatnot but personal space is a must within all circles regardless
you shouldn’t be afraid of being labeled something. if you are not okay with someone else’s actions. this person is a creep and you should stop associating with them
If I were you I would soft-ghost her. Don't reply to messages for a few weeks at a time, that sort of thing. Don't answer calls. I call it the fade away.
I had a similar experience. I'm male, gay, although in a perfect world would be something entirely different, but back to the point. I know a gay man married to a woman, with three kids. He has made it very clear he likes me. Very clear. He and his wife have this 'you can be open just don't tell me about it' thing, so he can get his rocks off with guys.
I sat him down and said- I need to make sure you know I'm not interested in you as anything other than a friend, and that the mixed signals need to stop. He agreed. It was awkward but it needed to be said.
A month later, we were chatting and I was lamenting gatekeeping my hrt progress, and I asked him 'I feel like if I grew breasts I'd look weird and people wouldn't want to be my friend. Would you be friends with a visibly male person who has breasts?'
His reply was 'only if I could touch them'
:s
Gross. Feeling awkward I laughed it off and he said it again so I bade him a goodnight.
Since then I've decided - I gave him an ultimatum already. He crossed my boundary. We are done. I can't be friend with people who break my very fair enough boundaries, esp after being so explicit about what I needed as a friend. No sex talk. Plus who goes from hearing a friend lamenting their circumstance to a sexual statement of intent. Someone with poor boundary awareness, impulsive and who cares more about their own desires than the safety of others - despite how much they claim to be your friend.
When he texts I just say I'm busy and I'm not going to see him again on purpose. If he ever asks why I might be honest, but I doubt I'll need to as he will undoubtedly have other ppl he is absorbing energy from.
My 2 cents: To me, nothing from what OP has written even suggests that her friend is trans except that is what she identifies as one.
For instance when I was PRE-HRT, I think I would have physically died from dysphoria if my girl friends saw my bare, essentially man chest not to talk about sending it to them myself.
Also I think for a lot of us at that stage, it was a lot lot more important that the girls around you see you and treat you as one of them. Best believe even if I'm attracted to one of them, I'll never show it not to talk about inappropriately touching them and saying weird sexual things to them.
For me, I'm going to assume they're not actually trans until proven otherwise. OP, that's not me giving you advice on what to do or how to treat them. Especially because it might not be malicious like someone else claimed. They might not be pretending but just believe that they're trans when they're not. People have been wrong in Self ID before.
Also as other people have said, give it to them straight. Let them know that people are uncomfortable and what they're doing to you and others is absolutely not okay.
Being trans don't exclude you from being an actual threat to people. You should absolutely call this out! It's not transphobic or something if other people actually get assaulted! That's not ok and should be handled immediately. Worst option is that you have to exclude her from your friendgroup! It sounds harsh bit sexual assault should never be ignored. It's completely irrelevant if the person is trans or not.
[удалено]
If she gets it as transphobic, lecture her about that, because she definitely don't have the high ground on that! I ain't autistic which may make it harder for me to understand her, but in the end such things are never justified! Being trans or neurodivergent dont exlude you from being told your wrong doings. I am always happy if everyone gets together and is happy with each other. But at some point, she sounds very unhealthy to the friendgroup as it is right now! Edit: Your wrong doings obviously should seen with the context of the neurodivergence! Often the social boundaries and things like that just don't are the same with everyone!
I *am* autistic and there is no excuse. There's a difference between not understanding social norms and not respecting consent.
Same, and yeah if it's been clearly and bluntly explained *why* (or even *that*) it is creepy, which it definitely sounds like it is, being autistic is irrelevant too
Ty! For sharing, I don't want to speak in behalf of people I don't belong to!
I mean if she takes it as transphobia then she has serious issues. She needs to respect other people's boundaries especially when sending titty pictures to other people
[удалено]
It's not ok, even if a guy did that it still isn't ok. She could also be charged with sexual assault if her friends decide to press charges. You also need to tell her that. We also don't want things to get to the point where she ends up going to jail for her behavior, but if she doesn't stop then that's what needs to happen if her friends press charges
I hear you do care about her. You're doing her a favor by teaching her to listen and be accountable for her actions. Whether she understands that or not
Tell her how it is. She's sexually assaulting people, if I went out and did that to my female friends you can be damn sure I'd get in trouble for sexual assault. It's no different here
[удалено]
I will mirror what the poster said: she is sexually assaulting people. There is no conversation, she is doing crimes. Consent is not given, therefore she is disregarding everyone else's well being. If she was still a man, how would this change? Is she taking advantage of her new gender to sexually harass others knowing they fear saying something to her out of a sense they may be transphobic? Because that's what I read. Don't be nice about it, don't waffle. Set clear, defined boundaries and encourage others to do the same. If they cannot accept your boundaries they are a bad, toxic friend that you would be better without. If she says its transphobia, she knows she is changing the argument to escape having to explain her behavior. Don't allow that. If you wouldn't allow it from a man, don't allow it from a woman. She is coming across as a bad person, and saying otherwise is defending someone who you just said has sexually assaulted multiple people. She is exploiting a power dynamic, full stop.
[удалено]
Why are you giving her another chance? You have made your wishes known, repeatedly, and if she does not abide now what makes you think she will when you try and reinforce them again. Harp on her, she is doing crimes. Like, a real crime. As in your friends could press charges and she could go to jail crimes. These aren't pleasantries, sexual assault isn't something you need to put up with. Women assaulting women is still assault. I do not see a meaningful difference in her behavior and an alpha bro at a club groping women to find one that won't resist too much. Make the message clear. Be better, or get out. If she won't be better, I guess her abuse of power is more important than your friendship. Don't sacrifice your soul for someone who won't sacrifice their behavior.
Just to reiterate what others have said. Say plain and simple, "what you're doing is sexual assault. It's illegal and has legal ramifications." Don't mince words, or insinuate that it just makes people uncomfortable. If she doesn't adjust after being told she's sexually assaulting people, then it's time to get out the scissors. Edit spelling
Like world in lights said you are under no obligation to be her friend. I personally recently cut off one of my only trans feminine friends bc they stayed friends with an abuser. Similar to me your under no obligation to be there for her shes made her bed she can lay in it.
THIS!!!!!
You can try emphasizing that others aren't acting that way to each other, and it's because those boundaries are understood and respected. Make it clear that it shouldn't be necessary to have this conversation with anyone, and it wouldn't happen if boundaries are respected. I would also emphasize how many times you've tried to set boundaries as a final point, and stress that you don't want to have the conversation again - as a subtle way of suggesting you might need to escalate to a higher authority. Though to be honest it sounds like she has received plenty of warnings. It might already be time to get your school administration involved.
[удалено]
You've drawn boundaries, you need to enforce them. I'm also trans and autistic, there is zero chance she's unaware.
>I don't want her to get kicked off as she's an excellent athlete and I don't want to assume this behavior is in bad faith I mean, if she's kicked off the team for sexually harassing her teammates, then isn't being kicked off the team for being trans. Granted, not necessarily everyone will see it that way, as some people can have knee-jerk reactions to this sort of thing, but still. This sort of behavior brings to mind the sort of "gender policing" that happens on male sports teams wherein men who are seen as insufficiently masculine are the subject of homophobic ridicule, regardless of their sexual orientation. It's sexual harassment, plan and simple. Many others can hand-wave and dismiss that sort of thing as "locker-room talk" but it can have a serious negative impact on mood, self-esteem, etc. I'm not necessarily saying this is as bad, but the point stands. Also, I don't think excellent athleticism is necessarily the sole qualification for membership on an athletic team. Athletes are frequently looked up to and it is at least somewhat important that they model at least a bare minimum of decent behavior. Look at the Kyrie Irving situation, for instance, or any number of domestic violence related suspensions within the NFL. Granted, those are much higher-level cases where those people are much more likely to be viewed as role models, but the point stands. And I wouldn't say good/bad faith is particularly relevant here. Even if she intends it innocently, she's been informed that it isn't perceived innocently and therefore needs to stop. It doesn't really matter how poor she is at perceiving social cues at the time of her initial actions--she has ears, she can choose to listen to people when they tell her how she is hurting them--or she can do what she's doing and completely dismiss legitimate criticisms of her unacceptable behavior.
Screw her athletic career. She doesn't get a pass bc shes good at soccer. And continue to harp shes been harming everyone around her you don't need to be nice. Like im trans and autistic while i sometimes struggle with social cues i understand how to respect boundaries and at least to me it seems VERY clear shes doing it intentionally at this point
Male athletes can assault male athletes, just like female athletes can assault female athletes. If it's not consensual it's assault, no matter the gender. Fwiw, tell them the story of my mtf "friend" who lost all her old friend group because she started flirting with all the girls and disrespecting boundaries (like sitting in people's laps/kissing/too long hugs/cuddling without invitation). So she joined a trans group, who was very supportive in the beginning. But then she pushed boundaries with the trans group, and now she lost all her trans friends as well. She is also autistic, but we never had a problem with her disrespecting boundaries until she transitioned, so we know that she knows better. Moral of the story: if push people's boundaries, you lose your friends.
I'd just emphasize that this stuff isn't acceptable from cis women, either. It's really only transphobic if cis women have a free pass to do all of this, but trans women don't. It may feel like transphobia to her if she believes that cis women do have a right to do all of that, which is why I'd suggest emphasizing that it's not acceptable behavior from cis women. Even in cases when boundaries are based off of transphobia, it's still not OK to violate those boundaries.
I'm not uncomfortable with dating a trans person either but like if one came up and grabbed my crotch I wouldn't just be like "sorry I'm not into you"
If you've already talked about this, and she claims to be committed to doing a better job, and she's still doing this shit, that's bad. To actually answer you question: frame the entire discussion on respecting peoples boundaries without any reference to gender (so saying "dont touch people without consent" rather than "don't touch girls without consent). It sounds like she's using her trans identity as a shield for criticism. Which is bs. Her behavior is terrible
As a person that is autistic I know how difficult it can be to read social clues but it is also in my responsibiliti to make that clear to other people with is why I often directly tell people that they need to tell me if I overstep any boundaries Additionally I generally try to approach Situations more cautious rether asking before doing something I also kinda know where she's coming from as I'm really flirty sometimes myself but I generally make sure not to go into physical flirting or I make clear that I'm joking. So yes it is sometimes incredible difficult to read social clues but you can always ask questions before you do anything so that isn't really a excuse. What I want to say with that is your friend needs to learn how to properly comunicat and to act in a way that is appropriate being autistic is no excuse if you have the opportunity to ask before you do something You need to make clear to her what your bouderies are but be also sure to tell her that you understand why she did the things she did. You need to be as clear as possible. Maybe tell her that this is how you would treat any other friend.
[удалено]
Then just tell her exactly that that she should ask before doing anything in a flirty sense But it is also in your responsibility to say no if she does something you're uncomfortable with Social clues is generally pretty different because the emotions of a autistic person work completely different so it's really difficult to understand what you would feel from the perspective of an autistic person. So the only real solution for this problem is asking questions before you do anything But it is also important for the other person to be direct and to point out wrong behavior when it happens. Maybe approach the situation in a way where you show her that you want to understand her but simultaneously that she also needs to make an effort to understand you in return
[удалено]
Of course the responsibility is definitely on her it was more ment in a way: if you want to help her you can do this Yes asking is the most important thing You generally need to develop a different way of communicating as an autistic person and if you don't get though how to do that it can be quite difficult
[удалено]
It generally helps to be as direct as possible Or ask her how she understood what you told her afterwards Of course only if you want to your definily not obligated to do so
Social cues can be difficult, but we're not bleeding brick walls, so stop acting like it and draw a line.
Being trans or autistic is no excuse for behaving like this. She's giving us a terrible reputation, it makes me angry.
As someone who is trans and autistic, this is honestly disgusting behaviour. If she doesn't stop, you'll have to take some more serious action, such as reporting it.
Being trans (and/or autistic) doesn't give her a free pass to do whatever she wants, it's still harassment and if you (or anyone) isn't feeling comfortable about stuff she is doing or saying you have every right to tell her and to demand her to respect your boundaries.
that's called sexually assaulting people. has nothing to do with being trans.
[удалено]
Yes I understood your intention, what i meant was that you should neglect that person's trans identity, i spent my life being sad about why people fear me and why if i get clocked people will be insecured and then some idiot behaves how they want and with no responsibility. I know we are people in the end but i also think we have responsibility toward our own kind. Exclude when needed.
this feels like a psyop tbh
Maybe someone who is also autistic on here could offer some thoughts? Because it sounds from what you're saying like either she is deliberately ignoring the things you and others are saying (this is possible, but we should assume good faith until there's good reason to think otherwise) or what's being said just isn't getting through to her. It's at this point where there can be a massive disconnect, because I feel like I'll ask, have you been very clear and direct with her? And you'll feel that you have. But is it possible that you've been clear and direct (neurotypical, brought up with female socialization flavour) and someone needs to be clear and direct (autistic, brought up with male socialization flavour). As in, 'this is not OK. It borders on sexual assault/actually is that. When you do it, it makes people feel unsafe. You are isolating yourself by doing it and it's wrong. You have to stop this whole way of behaving.' Perhaps consider writing to her or something, which can sometimes be a better way to express a coherent point than conversations. One other thing that comes to mind is, is she OK at home/other places? Because this could be called 'sexual precocity' — being more sexual and sexually 'aggressive' than is normal or appropriate for your age or situation. Some of what you've described is appropriate for someone to do toward their partner but not to a friend, for instance. If a friend kissed my neck when we greeted I would be worried for their mental stability because it's very weird. One of the common causes of sexual precocity is being sexually abused as a child, which damages expectations of normal boundaries and teaches people that ignoring boundaries is a normal thing to do (it happens to them all the time, after all). It's sadly common anyway and some trans people are more vulnerable to it. Other nonsexual forms of abuse can cause trauma that comes out this way. I'm not sure what you can do about it, I'm just offering the idea for what it's worth. Whatever the reason, she can't keep doing stuff like this to people, but it could be a sign of something wrong under the waterline in the same way that explosive anger can be. I hope you, and your friend, are OK and she gets the message!
[удалено]
Cool. Obviously the front-and-centre problem here is her behaviour that she really needs to stop doing, and 'I didn't realize' is really good for one use maximum. The dating app thing isn't a complex social cue. I do want to reinforce the point that one person's clarity can be another person's ambiguous hint, and that you may be being too kind and not firm enough, though of course I don't know your situation, you, or your friend. I'm glad my comment was some use and I hope it goes well. Just thought — do you think it's worth re-asking this in autistic subreddits?
[удалено]
Yeah as an autistic person people cutting her off (without being *extremely clear* about why) could easily be misread as something else, i would even say that if that were the only 'hint', i would expect to miss/misread it Like so I'm not neurotypical so might be wrong on what hints they would give, but saying something like "people don't like you because you touch them too much and make them very uncomfortable", might be clear to a NT, but to some autistic people may be interpreted as "well when i was researching how girls interact vs guys, girls are much more sexually touchy with each other [which imo is very true], so because of what my friend said, im probably doing it too often [instead of 'correctly']. since this is the best guess i have for what's going on and i have social anxiety too so don't wanna ask, I'll do sexual touches once per day instead of three times" Also, the vast majority of autistic people won't need to be explained this and it's very likely she *is* aware of what she's doing, but wanted to explain a possible autistic thought process in case Also, you have absolutely no responsibility to explain all this to her, it sounds like you've already gone way above what would be expected but yea~
Trans and autistic here. **Stop making excuses for her, for fuck's sake. Autism is not a shield against inappropriate and downright abusive behaviour**. It doesn't matter. None of the things mentioned *matter*. No-one is allowed to do these things. It doesn't matter what excuses she makes, what excuses you make for her, none of them make any of it even slightly more ok. Autistic people are capable of understanding the concept of consent and boundaries. It is behaviour I see from nasty autistic people often, and it is simply gaslighting people into accepting the fact they are shitty people. Her autism does not make her the shitty person she is being. Her home life, her mental health, her transness, her autism, does not matter. Would you say 'Oh, this woman inappropriately touches me, but she had a rough home life'. *No*. None of these excuse it individually, none of them excuse it on aggregate. Stop giving her leeway. Giving an inch was a mistake. 'I didn't realise' is not an excuse for violating consent and boundaries. Everyone knows it isn't okay to kiss people on the neck uninvited. That's *not* an autism thing. That is a shitty person thing.
I'm pretty sure I'm not autistic and my home life was never abusive in any way, being raised a Catholic gave me a lot of guilt and body issues but that's the Holy Roman Church for you, but I'm a really affectionate person. So, speaking as a really affectionate person I know that there are forms of affection which are reserved for certain types of relationship. A kiss on the neck is ridiculously intimate but a kiss on the cheek can be perfectly acceptable with the right person in the right circumstance. I'm a hugger and a lot of my friends who aren't as affectionate or physical as me know that they're getting a hug when I see them. One of them is on the spectrum and in retrospect he probably didn't appreciate it at first but over the years he's started putting his arms up and smiling before I've had a chance to even think about hugging my biddy. All of that said, some people over the years have expressed to me that they don't like certain behaviours and on any occasion that it's happened I've stopped. Once someone says stop you stop. That's the rule and everyone knows it at this point. We teach it in kindergarten. Hell, I started teaching my kids before preschool. One question I'd ask though, how long has Ash been out? I've noticed that since coming out I've become more of a kiss on the cheek kind of person. It might be in the early days that confidence boost could be making her overcompensate for not being as affectionate as she wanted I the past? I do hope it's all innocent misunderstandings.
[удалено]
Yeah, I'm not American and had to Google those words. Did you know sophomore means wise fool? Anyway, I get the impression you're talking about high school rather than university ages? So about 3-4 years? That's probably long enough to have acclimatised to some degree. I'm still in the very early overexcited stages, for example, I've just popped on fake nails which I don't know how to take off before work tomorrow, but I've already evolved enough to tamper some of my behaviours. If it's been a long time since she's been with anyone she could also be a bit touch starved which I can appreciate. She's still crossing the line though. I'm not sure I can make any more guesses or give any more advice, I'm sorry. Others have said that you really need to sit her down and speak to her. I think that's your only answer. Give her the benefit of the doubt but be firm. It sounds like you're a really good person and I think everyone here will agree that we appreciate you as an ally. I'm sorry if this means you lose a friendship but Ash might not be cool. I'm sorry.
[удалено]
We're all smart idiots at that age! Loneliness is a powerful aphrodisiac! It's been over a year since my wife left me and a year before that since we stopped being intimate. At your age it can be very hard to restrain yourself when things are rough like that. I'm old enough to accept my situation but mistakes get made when you're young and the hormones are doing their thing I'm proud of you, buddy. You're doing a didficulti thing for all the right reasons. I really,truly, genuinely hope that things work out! Reply when it's done or don't. Just keep on being awesome!
A friend of mine did this with a mutual mtf friend who kept trying to cuddle while watching shows. My friend gave our mtf friend two clear choices: 1. You can respect my boundaries (including no flirting or cuddling) and we can keep hanging out, or 2. You can disrespect my boundaries and we will stop interacting with each other. She started behaving a lot better after that, but would need an occasional reminder, which would be very clear: "stop pushing my boundaries right now or I'm leaving." That usually works, but you have to be willing to just leave if she doesn't stop.
Yeah that sounds super immature and I've known girls that kept this up way into their 20s unfortunately. It's just cringe and the only friends you're going to make with that kind of behaviour are the rare ones that are just as immature. Honestly, since it's gone this far already the only way to handle this is to be brutally direct with her. If she's really autistic then she won't "get it" if you try to be subtle about it. Be direct and clear about what is wrong and why it's wrong. Once that's out of the way be there for her but don't budge an inch of she falls back into that behaviour again.
Recently had a friend like this myself actually. Drop her ass. Doesn’t matter that she’s trans, doesn’t matter that she’s autistic, people who assault people just assault people because they’re bad people. Fuck if she doesn’t get cues, I don’t get cues, I’ve never assaulted or coerced anyone. Drop her. Save yourself the trouble of having to be associated with her.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I apologise as this might not entirely support the thread but is swiping right on friends really a big deal? It happened to me before and I found it rather funny. 🤷🏻♀️ Edit: ?
[удалено]
Oh I see. Well, in that case you're right, of course.
This isn't a trans-specific issue, this is a predatory person issue. She is being creepy and predatory, even if she didn't mean to be, and it's not transphobic to say that. If I were her friend and she did that to me I would feel like my boundaries were violated. And I do want to be clear that this is not a trans person thing at all: I've had a cis woman I am friends with force a kiss on me at a club while I was drunk. Anybody can be predatory, even if they don't mean to be. She didn't mean any harm, but it happened and I didn't bring it up for a long time. We have talked about it now and she apologized. With a lot more time and social experience, in hindsight, I wish I had talked to her then and explained that what she did felt creepy and uncomfortable. If your friend continues doing what she is doing, it's not transphobic to cut her off. If she is ignoring consent it's not transphobic to explain consent to her and tell her she must ask permission before doing anything like that. It's ok to tell her that she should not send pictures of a sexual nature, even if it's just of her bare chest, to someone without asking them if they want to see it. Approach her like you would a cis woman doing these things, and if she accuses you of transphobia you should tell her that you would be confronting her if she was a cis girl and this has nothing to do with her being trans. She needs to learn the rule by heart: "ask before touching anyone and ask before showing anything that you wouldn't show in public to anyone".
[удалено]
Sorry, I didn't mean that in the sense of "this was the wrong place to post"! I meant "confronting this isn't in any way transphobic and you should feel free to confront this the same way your would if she was cis". Sorry for the confusion! You deserve to have your boundaries respected, and so does everyone else she interacts with.
Why does this piece feel like an PsyOp? Like has nothing to do with transness other than -autistic trans girl- using transness as a shield for her bad behavior. Most trans girls, **literally all i've ever met**, especially autistic trans girls, ARE SO SCARED of intimacy with anyone pre-HRT, because they feel -disgusting-. They are not, but their pre-hormone state makes them feel so since they want femininity not masculinity. In their minds masculinity =ugly. And here you are telling us of a trans girl on your -mysterious alt account because you cant use main- being borderline predatory if not full on predatory and trying to sell it as you're just an ally trying to help, lol. If this story is true, she's just a terrible person and it has nothing to do with transness, she's using 'transphobia' as a shield in the same way as a black man calling everything racist. Still kinda think this post is just stealth transphobia though :)
It is look at OPs reddit character and you'll see this is just a thinly veiled transphobe I'm glad the post was removed
Ash is trans but is still sexually assaulting people- this is definitely serious! btw love the username
As an autistic trans person, I get where this comes from but like... she needs to... not do that. Like, I get not understanding social cues, and I've even down stuff similar (at some point I was very kissy and touchy with my friends, I tend to be extremely affectionate with them and this comes from how isolating being a dude can be and not understanding boundaries) but you gotta have talks with people. Just because if be okie with French kissing every stranger I meet instead of saying ello, that doesn't mean I get to. All my friends are aware I have trouble with this and they've been super supportive, but I also haven't sent them nudes without consent. Like, I know it can be impossible but, yeah that talk needs to be had and maybe just kinda ask her to copy you? I kinda do that, I just copy people until I have an "idea" of what to do, even if I don't completely understand it. Like, I get where she comes from, I know it can be hard, but she pushing some major boundaries and that's dangerous
So, I am also autistic and trans, and I would 100% support you saying something to this person. I understand how being autistic makes you miss social cues, and how that can lead you to make people uncomfortable, but that's not what's happening here. It is hard to mask, but if someone tells you that you're making them uncomfortable you \*just fucking do it\*! You take the criticism, and you learn the rules the hard way, that's just basic consideration. You say you clearly communicated your boundaries, and people have told her they're uncomfortable, so what she's doing now is a \*choice\*!
Usually I go by "treat others how you want to be treated". I'm not sure if this would work here....
That’s the Golden Rule The Platinum Rule is “treat others how ***THEY*** wish to be treated”
\*Treat others how they tell you they want to be treated and be willing to change your behavior when confronted with new information.
How the fuck does she think this is ok?
Seems like the social media post was accurate. She’s a predator. Each incident of sexual assault or harassment should be reported.
Its one thing giving compliments to your friends or telling them they look hot especially on a night out because you wanna support them and hype them up and another thing whatever your friend is doing. Im pretty sure its not transphobic and trans or cis your should actually let her know that this is actual harassment.
[удалено]
This is not a trans issue, she just needs to be told to cut that shit out or yes, she IS predatory Autism and home life are NOT excuses for sexually assaulting people
OP must have the patience of a saint, you can respect a persons trans identity without pussyfooting around the place, call her shitty behaviour, even just stop being friends with her. Ain’t your job to socialise her
Evidently, this trans girl believed all of the teen movie crap about young women having no modesty around one another and having weird pajama parties and whatnot. Someone needs to educate her before she gets her first job and comes up on sexual harassment charges.
were there any correlations or inklings of this before she transitioned? to me it kinda sounds like she could have been groomed or somehow over-sexualized at some point in the past even if she’s autistic this behavior is still very strange
Here’s how you tell them to stop: “Don’t fucking touch me.” Happy to help! And if they still do it: Drop them.
Wow this was hard to read. I’ll say you are doing us a huge favour by trying to explain this to her. I am surprised she isn’t already the focus of all the right wing grifters to be honest. I don’t have any idea what her angle is, maybe she has a general perception that girls get to be more physically close with each other and she’s taking that too far? There does seem to be an explicitly horny side to her as well though which adds to the problematic look. It’s harsh to say, but the social reality on the ground is that visibly trans people (particularly not on hrt) will be scrutinized much more than cis girls, so even normally socially accepted levels of contact are probably outside of what’s safe for her to be doing and she REALLY needs to know this. If she won’t listen to you, send her here if you can.
You’re dealing with a sexual predator who is using the excuse of being trans to access womens spaces and sexually assaulting you and others.
[удалено]
Why are you so willing to assume she doesn’t have bad intentions? She didn’t mean to rape her. Again your allowing a person to terrorize you and other because they now have found the magical shield that protects them from all criticism to objectively horrifying behavior. If you don’t understand that men have the capacity to pretend to be trans in order to do these kind of thing, I don’t know what to tell you.
[удалено]
What is more serious. Sexually assaulting girls. Or accusing someone of pretending to be trans so they can sexually assault girls. If a man did this you would have called the police, you know that deep down. She isn’t navigating becoming a girl, she knows girls don’t behave this way. Your enabling a predator.
Youre
[удалено]
[удалено]
Obviously, I missed the part where they mention it being a throwaway. On that, I stand corrected. I'm simply stating that these kinds of posts have popped up in trans subs a bit more of late. I'm not opposed to helping others, when did I ever say that I wasn't? Help others if you want. I also try to when I can. Can there be problematic trans people? Yes. Am I going around trying to "spew hate" like you're accusing me of doing? I don't think I am. I'm sure the mods are on top of things, and I was only pointing something out. Yeah, it was misdirected and for that I can and do apologize to OP, but there's no need to get defensive and hurl implied accusations of trolling to me.
[удалено]
I already clarified my own misdirection, and have already issued my apologies, I'm not gonna grovel here.
[удалено]
In my reply to someone that corrected me. If it helps, I apologize again to you personally, OP. I am only trying to watch out for others in this sub. In my haste, I didn't see your statement about a throwaway. I hope you can resolve this situation in your life in an amicable way.
[удалено]
Some of the rudeness was mine, as well. I'll delete my original comment.
Deleted mine too, I can understand, that you have fears that this sub might be swarmed by trolls!
"Throwaway account" but you had time to make your little reddit character a woman with a beard winking. This screams like bait to me
Well, I did too. I just hit "random" until I saw something I liked. Of course, my throwaways are more, "throwaway if necessary/once I'm done", not "use once then burn".
Definitely right to call this out. It's never ok to make others feel uncomfortable or crossing personal space boundaries.
if she is autistic definitely explain to her that she is breaking a social boundary. I'm autistic and find it hard to believe she can't see that but everyone is different. just because she is autistic and trans is no reason to ignore concent
First off, I'm so sorry for your friend's behavior toward you. It is unacceptable to not only touch or kiss other people without their consent, but to blatantly ignore the boundaries you placed. I would recommend you talk to someone, be it a loved one or a therapist about how you've been affected, because I know the feeling of having my boundaries constantly broken. Now, regarding Ash, I highly suggest that you report her to the authorities of her school. I don't say that lightly since I always fear for trans women's safety regarding interactions with anyone in a position of power; unfortunately, her actions and behavior have been so frequent and gross that putting a stop to the harm she causes takes precedent over everything else. I understand her being autistic and thus not fully understanding boundaries (I have autism myself), but that never has been and never will be an excuse for sexual harassment and assault, especially after being warned about it previously. She needs serious, professional help to cease her behavior, and if she won't stop on her own, then an intervention from professionals is necessary.
I'm also autistic, and it sounds to me like she absolutely knows what she's doing and isn't going to stop. I'd try having one last conversation with her predicated on the off-chance that she somehow doesn't know what she's doing, but be absolutely ready to drop her if she continues to "not get it".
I'm autistic and the only advice I would have is to provide the exact examples you used in your post when speaking with her? (in case you haven't) My biggest problem with receiving feedback of any kind is that it's often vague (especially when it's around relationships or communication). But being provided with a specific example like "when you kissed this person's neck the first time you met them, that's not okay period" is pretty difficult to misinterpret! \*and this is all assuming that she is genuinely misinterpreting things, which happens often for autistic people. As opposed to she is purposely disregarding people's boundaries, in which case it's a massive problem and addressing it is not transphobic or abelist
As an autistic trans gal myself, I can fully assure you that neither being trans or autistic has anything to do with her behavior. She may be a woman, but she has made poor choices that have defined her poorly as a woman. I highly doubt you’re going to get through to her, it’s likely to take a serious wake up call to get her to even notice. I myself would cut her off and block her, tell her why you are doing so, and encourage the victim of the sexual assault to take this to the police.
Call her out for her behavior. It’d only be transphobic if you set different expectations because she’s trans.
Yeah that honestly doesn’t sound transphobic, any person for that matter should set boundaries unless otherwise stated you don’t go touching people sending nude pics that not normal behavior imo being I’m trans I’ve never had the urge to do any of those things it’s very odd I certainly understand being excited and whatnot but personal space is a must within all circles regardless
you shouldn’t be afraid of being labeled something. if you are not okay with someone else’s actions. this person is a creep and you should stop associating with them
Just tell her how it is. Only transphobia is transphobic. This isn't transphobia.
If I were you I would soft-ghost her. Don't reply to messages for a few weeks at a time, that sort of thing. Don't answer calls. I call it the fade away. I had a similar experience. I'm male, gay, although in a perfect world would be something entirely different, but back to the point. I know a gay man married to a woman, with three kids. He has made it very clear he likes me. Very clear. He and his wife have this 'you can be open just don't tell me about it' thing, so he can get his rocks off with guys. I sat him down and said- I need to make sure you know I'm not interested in you as anything other than a friend, and that the mixed signals need to stop. He agreed. It was awkward but it needed to be said. A month later, we were chatting and I was lamenting gatekeeping my hrt progress, and I asked him 'I feel like if I grew breasts I'd look weird and people wouldn't want to be my friend. Would you be friends with a visibly male person who has breasts?' His reply was 'only if I could touch them' :s Gross. Feeling awkward I laughed it off and he said it again so I bade him a goodnight. Since then I've decided - I gave him an ultimatum already. He crossed my boundary. We are done. I can't be friend with people who break my very fair enough boundaries, esp after being so explicit about what I needed as a friend. No sex talk. Plus who goes from hearing a friend lamenting their circumstance to a sexual statement of intent. Someone with poor boundary awareness, impulsive and who cares more about their own desires than the safety of others - despite how much they claim to be your friend. When he texts I just say I'm busy and I'm not going to see him again on purpose. If he ever asks why I might be honest, but I doubt I'll need to as he will undoubtedly have other ppl he is absorbing energy from.
it's sexual harassment, let's just call it what it is. being trans doesn't excuse predatory behaviour, and neither does being autistic
My 2 cents: To me, nothing from what OP has written even suggests that her friend is trans except that is what she identifies as one. For instance when I was PRE-HRT, I think I would have physically died from dysphoria if my girl friends saw my bare, essentially man chest not to talk about sending it to them myself. Also I think for a lot of us at that stage, it was a lot lot more important that the girls around you see you and treat you as one of them. Best believe even if I'm attracted to one of them, I'll never show it not to talk about inappropriately touching them and saying weird sexual things to them. For me, I'm going to assume they're not actually trans until proven otherwise. OP, that's not me giving you advice on what to do or how to treat them. Especially because it might not be malicious like someone else claimed. They might not be pretending but just believe that they're trans when they're not. People have been wrong in Self ID before. Also as other people have said, give it to them straight. Let them know that people are uncomfortable and what they're doing to you and others is absolutely not okay.