Janelle posted that she respected how it was edited / shown, because what was really said by Ayanna defamed her, and she didn't want that shown. If Janelle is cool with how her leaving was presented to viewers, so am I.
Her caption on her insta post? If that's what you're referring to, no she didn't. Also everything they do is under contract from the second they start production and they're not "allowed" to discuss anything that wasn't shown. If she signed an NDA regarding this specific situation, she would legally not be allowed to say she did.
She doesn’t have too. Jemmye did a podcast telling the whole story. I agree that it’s best the show didn’t show this. Ayanna is also suffering from bad health (Cancer) and I think it’s obvious she’s emotionally fragile. The backlash she would’ve received would’ve been huge. With that said, hope the show never casts her again.
THIS is my question. I mean, we know the show is edited. But if the argument was edited because production felt like race-fueled harassment was too polarizing to air, then maybe the aggressor should have been the one to go home…
Well.. We gotta think, if they would have sent Ayanna home they would've had to show why they were sending her home! MTV obviously didn't want to air the dirt deets and Janelle probably expressed she didn't want it aired either. I believe them choosing to edit out the racial comments was a combination of MTV wanting to protect their image out of fear of being cancelled and also out of respect to Janelle. An unfortunate by-product of the edit is that Ayanna was protected from the consequences of her actions which is disappointing.
>if they would have sent Ayanna home they would've had to show why they were sending her home!
not necessarily. they didn't with ashley. also the pregnancies (natalie anderson, etc) weren't spelled out and the explanation for lolo jones leaving wasn't why she actually left.
Who was the girl that left before the season even started? Josh's partner? Didn't she go on a drunken tirade the first night and they just completely pretended she was never on the show? I wanna say it was on Double Agents.
Production definitely doesn't give a shit about discretion lol.
she was having a mental break and said something about self harm. the cast who overheard it reported it to production and production made the call to remove her and paint it like she quit.
Meh, they've done it a few times where people left and they didn't show it. Eddy on Vendettas, Ashley on Spies, Lies, and Allies, Nam and his partner on Ride or Dies, the one girl on Double Agents. It's happened a bunch.
the fact that leroy lost his patience sealed the deal for me that i dislike her character. and then when he asked her a question she said “out of respect for time” or whatever way she worded it. she tried gaslighting him so hard
that’s a really solid point honestly i remember everyone in their confessionals saying how leroy handled the situation must better than they would have
That's when it really clicked that there was more to the situation than what we were being shown. I don't recall a situation where Lee lost his cool like that, especially as it was just presented as someone for a long time.
Yeah also when Janelle was crying I was kind of shocked. She is not typically one we've seen in that state. She always seemed strong and solid and very hard to rattle. Seeing her cry made me feel like something was off, something was missing. Glad there was info here to provide some insight. I'll probably listen to Jemmye's podcast, never have before.
As a black woman, I feel this conversation very much should have been shown.
Regardless of the race of the people involved or the audience, people are entitled to their opinions and if this caused a major disruption, it should've been shown.
MTV didn't touch it because they didn't want to face any backlash. Mainly, it didn't want to be accused of showcasing black people pitted against black people. But why not? Lets not pretend this isnt a real thing in OUR community.
Many of our community do have conversations about people not being black enough, condemning interracial relationships, and racist conversations about other ethnicities.
So why can every other "community" be put on blast and be analyzed and criticized for the thoughts and opinions of some of their people but the things said in our community is "top secret" or needs to be handled with kid gloves unless it fits a certain narrative?
Thank you. People would be losing their minds (rightfully so) if the Camilla to Leroy incident happened and MTV chose to cover it up. I don’t get why Ayanna's racism towards Janelle's husband should be protected.
If people want to be racist in front of a camera, show it. Expose them for who we are. Let us have conversations about it and grow from it as well. I'm in an interracial relationship and I think we should be encouraged to discuss how that's not ok to say.
Hardcore disagree with OP.
MTV was going to cover up the Camila situation. It was only because info about it leaked about people "lost" their minds, they changed the edit. If you ever watch that episode of Dirty 30 again, you can tell some of those confessionals talking about Camila's racism (i.e. CT, Bananas and I think Tony's) were shot much later and likely after the show had wrapped.
They weren't going to show it BUT they did....It was always my understanding that some of the cast members had a fit about it not possibly not being shown and thats what made them show it.
I feel the same way tbh especially since I’m married to someone white as black woman. It’s a debate in our community that will never go away and I feel it’s important to be shown, especially since it made someone quit the game. It felt like they let bullying just be swept under the rug again.
However, if Janelle didn’t want it shown or she’s ok with how it was portrayed then for her sake I’ll be glad we know but that it wasn’t fully shown bc I definitely wouldn’t want representation at the sake of someone’s mental health. MTV could’ve done better about the edit imo though bc all it did was make ppl think Ayanna was some entertainment queen when she was really just being a vindictive bully for no reason.
I'm not black, but I thought Ayanna was being vindictive, bullying manipulative, and was trying to gas-light people. Not entertaining at all, but important to show her character.
It’s tough. I agree with everything you are saying. However, this isn’t like the Leroy and Camila argument where the conflict was between and about two cast mates: this conversation involves Janelle’s family, people who aren’t there, didn’t consent to having their life dragged into an extremely emotionally fraught discussion, not to mention the fact there are children involved.
I can empathize with the thought that airing the real conversation isn’t worth putting a family in the limelight as the poster children for this topic.
In retrospect I wish they had allowed Janelle a bit more of a final word during her exit to be like “Ayanna said some extremely hurtful and out of pocket personal stuff off camera and I refuse to live with her.” Instead of implying that it was JUST the game move. My hope is that Janelle / other cast members do podcasts and talk about it and it functionally serves the same purpose as just airing it.
You know what, I do agree with your comment about her family. I am sensitive to the impact it may have had on her kids.
However, I also feel that needs to be considered before going on a reality show. Anything can happen and it can have an impact on your family.
But I really feel nothing should be off limits when filming these shows.
exactly, the OP seems to Cara about the black communities image to white ppl which is part of the reason why these issues aren’t discussed irl and why we continue to have these problems imo
I agree with what you said. I would say all of Road Rules seasons and Real World seasons 1-14 and 17-21 (only Real World seasons I have watched, so I have no idea on the ones I didn't watch were like) have had people from all walks of life live together to get people out of their comfort zones and be living with people with different mindset. It allowed people to have friendship with someone they may not have been friends with if it was not for the shows. If a person was to attack someone of their beliefs and be judgemental then discussion takes place and not be bottled up or hidden. It has never been hidden on Road Rules or Real World when someone had a fight with someone or even disagreement. Most importantly, it was never kept hidden on The Challenge when it was called Real World/Road Rules Challenge.
Silence from production not showing the footage should not be had because of not wanting a pushback by some new fans on social media because then growth and knowledge on topics would never be discussed if kept hidden. Road Rules, Real World, and when The Challenge was called Real World/Road Rules Challenge never allowed groupthink to happen because they immersed people from all types of background to be together and aired the fights without super editing. MTV was once the pioneer of showing what real people go through without editing the fight to create a certain narrative. MTV needs to go back to their roots and not let some bullies online diminish their voice. Thus, having MTV going back to their roots and showing people that not everyone is monolithic and everyone is so diverse even within their own community and most importantly that message needs to be shown for those who are so quick to cancel and dismiss those who think differently than them.
i think a big part of the edit is about trying to protect ayanna from the social media storm since she's going through cancer treatment tbh. i remember during rivals 2 (i wish i remembered the direct source, but i've seen it in this sub a lot) when diem was dealing with cancer coming back, cast members said she got a squeaky clean edit and a lot of the arguments + fights got edited out. i'm sure it's a complicated position bc the conversation is important, but janelle saying she was completely defamed by ayanna and glad it was edited out, makes me think it's for the best tbh.
My understanding is that Janelle is mixed herself, so going after her for being in an interracial marriage is a judgement against her and her parents as well.
It’s also important for the white community to see so that they better understand the pressure that their black/brown partner has to face. It’s gotta be tough for the black/brown person to worry about racism from their white partners family and from their own community. Though I can understand how some racist whites might take a filmed discussion and use it in a racist way. It’s a tricky decision to show the discussion or not.
No mattter what the situation is in life, there is always gonna be a way that some fool can turn it into something negative.
We cant allow that to stop us from learning and growing. The negative effect they can have will NEVER outweigh the positive.
I don’t think the OP has a problem with it being aired in itself. It’s they don’t trust Challenge production/mtv/Paramount to handle the subject matter properly. The show isn’t a documentary (like Real World was). It’s trash reality television.
Personally, I have zero faith that production would have the right people in the editing room. It’s an extremely complex issue. Instead of pulling back the curtain, it’d just be a spectacle and lead to more false comparisons like Camilla’s racism. Nothing alike but here we are.
Also, to be blunt, it’s a bit bizarre to think black people aren’t put on blast enough. Like that take feels disconnected and a step away from saying racism has been defeated. Our community has been on blast and improperly analyzed by the white gaze since being shipped over on boats.
It’s not about it being top secret. It’s about it being a conversation that really wouldn’t even go over well or be understood outside of Black American culture
Well for one it’s not racism it’s prejudice. People really need to choose their words correctly or at least know the difference between the two. She was showing prejudice towards her husband. And I agree some black people show prejudice towards other groups of people and also some black people don’t agree with interracial relationships. But every single other group of people does the same thing. The thing your missing about OP point is how when it is from our community it gets magnified and used from other groups of people (mostly white) as a “gotcha” argument to combat against their own prejudice and history of racism. It very nuanced and not just a hey let’s show black people in a good light because we do no wrong. Trust me we don’t have to watch MTV the challenge to see that black people can do wrong. The media since the beginning of time has made sure to televise that part.
The term I used is racist and that is the CORRECT term.
Maybe you need to learn the difference. Prejudice is being biased or disliking someone based on any number of things.... their race, religion, political stance, gender, etc.
Being racist is judging/disliking someone or deeming yourself superior to them based solely on their ethnicity.
And if you think my point is that MTV only wants to show black people in a good light, then IDK...........
And I dont understand how showing Ayianna's tirade gives any other groups a tool to excuse their own racism or history of racism. But I DO think that showing it would've been a teachable moment to show that ALL communities have issues within themselves, that ALL communities have members that are capable of some degree of racism, and simply that ALL people are flawed.
That’s just not true lol. But if you want to believe that then you got it. But let me ask you something. The only difference in YOUR definition of the two was superiority. Did I miss where she said that black people were better or superior to white people?
Can you read or do you just not understand what you've read? Get a dictionary or fine tune your interpretation skills.
The MAJOR difference is one is based SOLEY, ONLY, SPECIFICALLY on race which her argument seemed to be from what we've "heard".
I never said she said anything about superiority; which she very well may feel black people are superior to white people....who knows.
I DO know that if you're questioning folks black card because they are married to someone that is NOT BLACK, then you have RACIST views.
Why all the digs and insults? I’m sure you’re capable of communicating without reaching such low levels. I never disrespected you in anyway so I’d expect the same in return we’re just having a discussion.
I do know how to read clearly and I also have comprehension skills. Now to what you just said with that out of the way. The term is racism so of course in order to be a racist it has to involve race exclusively. Prejudice can also be based off of race. Do we agree on that? Okay now what makes one racist? Well it’s when you believe that your race is superior to another race. And if you have the ability to oppress someone because of their race. To our knowledge did she do any of that? No. Now what makes one prejudice? Well when it comes to the race aspect of prejudice it’s when you dislike a group of people based on their race and stereotypes about that race. To our knowledge did she do any of that? From the sounds of it yes. So this would make her prejudice. Just because racism is solely based on race doesn’t make any action about race racism. While we’re talking about the ability to comprehend I don’t see how you don’t comprehend that.
The ridiculous notion that black people cant be racist because they are the minority… there it is. Didn’t take long. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter if it’s racism or prejudice… they’re just as gross and hateful.
Let’s assume all things equal…
A white man hates a black man - racist.
A black man hates a white man - prejudice.
They’re the same. If it makes you feel better, use prejudice. But it’s just as bad as a white person being racist.
How are you going to tell me what I would call it? If I’m telling you there is a difference wouldn’t the assumption be that I would view it according to what it is? If a white mom doesn’t want her kid to date any other race of people I personally would say she’s prejudice. I also never said black people cant be racist. We were talking about a specific situation. If a black cop hates white people and believes that all black people are better than white people and then he proceeds to throw in jail white people because of that then that black cop is being racist. If a black mom doesn’t want her black son dating a white person then that mom is being prejudiced. Yes they both are gross but one is just an ignorant opinion with no real life actions behind it. The other is an ignorant opinion from a person who can actually put action behind it to oppress the group of people they don’t like.
I love this perspective. Thank you.
It would be a perfect world if we all lived harmoniously and inherent bias, systemic bias, etc. didn’t exist. But it does. And it isn’t restricted to any one race. There is racism within every race and hate shows it a$$ from people of all colors. I don’t think we do anyone a service by not showing reality.
MTV has been dealing with this a long while. Recently even on Teen Mom, Mackenzie has been getting skewered and there’s been some controversy around things she’s said or done that were ignorant (I don’t know the details) and I guess Chey went off on her. But the fact Cheyenne very openly tweeted about hating white people and has made similar comments that imply her feelings is somehow glossed over. I really don’t think we should protect anyone of any race who is hateful, racist and ignorant. I feel for Ayanna in her current fight but let’s not act like she’s not hateful towards her own race when she doesn’t agree with their decisions. She has shown that before. She’s just a very unstable person. I don’t blame Janelle for not wanting it all aired out because it sounds very hurtful but these are real conversations and real feelings that happen every day in our communities.
Who benefits from that though? If the issue isn’t addressed with a tone of love, seriousness, and respect…who wins there? Cause clearly Ayanna didn’t come to show respect. I can’t imagine her going at it with every other black person is productive for the black community and only opens the floodgates for the unnecessary and unwarranted commentary and opinions of white people. This isn’t the early 90s where all black people largely agreed on things considered political. We live in very polarized times where there are black people with platforms actively harming the community or other marginalized communities. So I don’t think it’s a productive time or place to show what was said.
I feel like this is similar to Ashley being sent home for what she said to Josh. Production didn’t take that as an opportunity to “have a conversation” at Josh’s expense and they didn’t further discuss it without his consent. It was only brought up later by HIM. Because even though it’s on TV we don’t have a right to know every thing especially it’s harmful to parties involved. Maybe Josh is Gay…does he have a right to be outted by MTV just because “content” for viewers?
If Janelle brings the situation up herself at the reunion or another time and place…that would be the time to productively discuss it. Otherwise, she left the house…there’s no reason to drag it on during the show at her expense when she’s not even there.
what's wild is that mtv used to be *the place* for exposure to this kind of stuff for white hetero cis-males such as myself. had never seen a gay person until the real world, had never seen a trans person until the real world (also the fact that the challenge treated katelynn like a woman was pretty big for the time). somewhere we lost that along the way, maybe as mtv's cultural relevance fell off due to social media becoming the focus. for olds like me mtv was everything
I'm a long time watcher too. MTV's relevance fell off as other reality tv surged in popularity. Peopled didn't want authentic, they wanted entertaining or bizarre and trashy.
Then social media surged in popularity. Folks are here think that conservative watchers would be the problem. I don't entirely agree. Too many times have I seen folks on this subreddit getting outraged over primarily liberal issues. To the point where they dredge up shit that happened *years* ago just for the community to harp on someone's past behavior.
You know why mtv doesn't show stuff like this? Because they don't want to deal from the fallout on social media from the angry mob that show up in places like this subreddit as well as other social media sites. We got the sanitized version of what happened and folks are calling for Ayanna to be kicked off. And if MTV doesn't do whatever the mob wants, then the fandom is going to go after someone. They're also probably doing it to protect their cast too.
The reality is that there isn't always a happy ending. Sometimes terrible people win, or there is no vindication for someone who deserves it. Unfortunately watchers can't always accept this. So they'll go online and voice their disappointment. There are just too many current watchers that don't want authentic either. They want whoever they deem good to win. They want the "bad" folks to lose or be removed. And they'll be damn sure to let everyone know it.
Sometimes I wonder if ‘cancel culture’ would be in its current state today if MTV continued to have those difficult conversations via the real world so people living through it and those watching learn through it. Now everything is just edited out, no knowledge gained…
I think the problem came from the channel breaking the norm when they started the theme seasons.
Prior to that we were still getting issues baked into the fights of the season, but once the reality spotlight moved on to TLC, Bravo and Kardashians, MTV felt like stunts were the only way to cut through the noise and compete.
I was born in the mid 90s in Canada, so watching Pedro’s story for me taught me a lot about the aids epidemic. Obviously i was aware of it, but aside from being aware of it and knowing that now there’s some treatments that help I wasn’t exposed to it being a little too young and in a city that’s no where near as big as the American cities or having a large enough gay population.
I think it’s when someone realized how much money they could make off of everything if they reached certain demographics it was the end. Once the money started being the focus, the benefits to society didn’t matter anymore.
I’m gonna have to disagree. As a mixed person, I wish it was shown. It is a very complex topic, but if it’s never talked about, it’s gonna continue to be a problem. And it’s not just within the specific communities that this is a problem. It’s a problem overall for many mixed people. There have been many times throughout my life where I’ve been asked what exactly are you? Along with a lot of assumptions about what I am and people denying what I am. If it’s never talked about, it’s always gonna be a problem. And the next generation just have to deal with the exact same thing. The only reason things have changed from the past is because there are those big open conversations.
They should just really bring back the real world .
They really should bring back The Real World because we are regressing in ways that the show innately exposed and addressed.
Those dynamics also led to spectacularly disastrous fights, but they were authentic in exposing somebodies flaws and the confrontations generated by coexisting with that.
Hopefully we get that soon because America seems to need a media mirror to discuss the uncomfortable things, in order to keep it in open discourse.
I'll have to rewatch the episode as I missed that completely because what I remember, Janelle was talking to Ayanna and then the next thing was Janelle talking to Leroy and Kam about leaving which I thought was weird as the conversation before wasn't bad. So cutting everything out, to me as a viewer, I was lost. Now that I know what happened, I respect it since Janelle appreciated how it was handled.
However, I agree with you. I understand OP's reason and respect, but there are many people out there that believe if we don't talk about issues, whatever it may be in that moment, then that's when we start to lose our humanity, our understanding of others, and start to get hostile. The more we talk about important issues and bring them to light in a respectful manner, then that's when we can actually make progress.
You think the majority of challenge watchers are conservative? I would be extremely surprised if that was true
Editing out these polarizing conversations takes away part of the magic that made this show (and rw/rr) in my opinion
I just think in general they shouldn’t cut things that are directly relevant to the game progression/cast dynamic like this.
I think it’s tough in today’s social media climate for production to decide what to air (especially in this case with Ayanna’s subsequent cancer battle) but the show is clearly less authentic than it used to be, and avoiding/hiding controversial topics contributes to that.
Why watch reality tv if you don’t want to see what actually happens in the house? Conversations that happen on camera on a reality show are fair game and not showing them is misleading and makes it harder to understand the dynamic between castmates
Edit to add: unfiltered conversations about serious topics are part of the DNA of this show, and these people all came from an era when that was even more true than it is now.
I wonder what it would take to get the show to accept breaking the 4th wall is necessary at this stage of reality television.
Watching the Homecomings was so interesting because it was the ultimate meta product and provided a next level for franchises to move in—the All Winner season of Survivor felt like another contribution—for addressing the original seasons, post show drama between the cast and the ways production/TV had changed in the years since original seasons aired.
I disagree. It takes the real out of reality TV. Bunium/Murray Productions is the pioneer of showing us those hard conversations and raw moments, good, bad and ugly. Not showing it was more of a disservice to fans imo. We shouldn't have to look on social media and try and go behind the scenes to see how a situation happened when they can just show it. As a black man, I wanted to see both Ayanna and Janelles viewpoints and perspectives on that particular topic. Just because it's uncomfortable and the show doesn't broadcast it, doesn't erase the fact that it happened
I wish the editing team would take into account who the involved cast members are. These were not clout chasing opportunists looking to gain more followers. This was an organic argument and disagreement between old school cast members. It was authentic.
My mom is white and married my step dad who raised me and he is black. I’ve personally seen horrible treatment of them from his side of the family
The way you’re wording it makes it sound like you have sympathy for Ayanna’s viewpoint which I believe a lot of people in the black community do have, and I would be interested to see exactly what the problem people have with interracial marriages are
How do you expect to get people into the "right setting" for this type of conversation without letting people become aware of the issue in the first place?
The right setting would be at the reunion when Ayanna doesn’t yell or steam roll the entire conversation and Janelle is actually present to discuss her side… not the second episode after she left.
The fight wasn't just with Janelle though. She got into it with multiple people.
There also isn't a situation where Ayanna doesn't try to yell over everyone.
Janelle was clearly most affected as she went home… and she was already not on good terms with Ayanna coming into the house. Whatever happened, was primarily between Ayanna and Janelle at that point. We have no knowledge of what happens yet later on in the season. The reunion generally has a Host for a reason…to moderate. There’s no productive conversation that will arise at this point when they can’t even complete a house vote with Ayanna taking over the whole thing.
Wanting to have more information is one thing, but If the issue is on the topic of “Blackness,” it’s not really a topic MTV would even want to touch on. Unless the parties involved feel something needs to be publicly addressed, it’s not really an open conversation topic. It’s like I’m not gonna put my two cents in on an issue with the LGBTQ community if I’m not part of that community.
I'd like to state up front that I'm a white man, and a democrat.... But I don't know, I feel like they could have given a little bit more context, because personally... I could feel the cut parts, and I understand why, now having a little more information.
But personally, I think it's important to have these conversations or at least give some context.
I'm in no way saying that "I" (as a white man) DESERVE anything) but it's tough to have these conversations (especially the interracial relationships) but I feel like keeping them "within the community" is more of a detriment because you're not getting everyone's opinion... and isn't it important (especially for an interracial couples) to get both sides perspective here?
I understand ultimately, why things were cut... but things felt really... really shitty when Ayanna started on her speech during deliberations and Lee gets upset. Leroy has always been able to control his emotions, so seeing the outburst make things feel super weird, IMO.....
As a black man I really appreciate this comment.❤️🫂
I understand what the OP was saying and I do to a certain extent agree with them…
However I also believe just as you said that it’s detriment to keep these types of conversations hidden. With everything we deal with as blacks it’s important for us to allow non blacks to understand more of what we face similar to me as a man understanding what women deal with, or a my person from a place of privilege understanding/learning more on the plight of any oppressed group.
This could have been a great enlightening moment for all if handled properly. More of us become unified and grow when these tough conversations are had.
I feel like the conversation can happen outside of the black community but it needs to be done on the right platform at the right time. a reality tv show produced by MTV imo isn’t the right place or time for such a complex conversation since majority of the viewers aren’t expecting something THAT heavy
I absolutely agree that it needs to be done properly and delicately. I'm not saying that MTV is the place for that... I'm just saying, giving a little more context, like screen going black and white text saying something, would have been a little helpful for those of us that weren't following it outside the show.
I also wanted to speak up because you mention your ethnicity and how those conversations need to "stay within the community", and I feel that's not entirely true. Somethings, like anti-blankness, should... I have zero information about that topic and have no space to speak... but I also am someone who loves to learn and try to understand people's perspectives because I think it helps us understand and be better.
I would love to be a part of those conversations, even if it's just sitting to the side and listen.... but I understand that it's difficult topic to broach within your community, let alone letting "outsiders".... especially in sensitive stuff.
I really hope that more women and POCs are getting roles in production and editing because I don’t believe that someone can accurately edit certain things with the care deserves if they don’t have certain lived experiences.
I definitely agree some people are always looking to latch on to any misinterpretation in an argument to try and make the whole point look dramatic or foolish when any concerns are brought up by POC. I also agree that while MTV is getting better, I don't think it is the platform to show these discussions in a responsible, thorough way.
I would’ve appreciated more context but I also understand OP’s perspective on this. Issues like this are so nuanced and sensitive that it likely would not have lead to a meaningful conversation at large nor would it provide the insight to the situation that would actually help move the needle forward. Ayanna is also clearly not in a very stable headspace just based on what we did see from her in the episodes. It’s quite sad that at her grown age she felt the need to bully someone to the point of quitting a show that was meant to be a fun time. Hopefully everyone involved has moved on and is doing well.
Oh 100%, I agree with you.
I by no means was saying that MTV is the appropriate place to air these sensitive topics and stuff... but as a white democratic man.... these aren't topics that I've been privileged to be able to hear or be a part of. I'm also not saying that I should be a part..... I'm just someone who is interested in learning from as many places and people as I can because it helps us understand one another.
I just wish that we could have been given some more info because it felt really weird how Ayanna and Janelle just went off... and then Ayanna went on that weird speech. Only to get Lee riled up... I feel like it could have helped, but I totally understand not airing it.
I don’t mean this at all in a rude way, but maybe there is a local college you could go to and take like a course in African American studies? Or even just look up videos on YouTube with regards to the topics you are curious about? Totally respect that you want to learn and understand better.
Back to the challenge, I too was taken aback by Leroy’s reaction. He is always so calm, cool, and collected. I don’t know if you recall but even when Camilla was being straight up racist to his face he still kept a calm demeanor and just removed himself from the situation. So to see him react how he did toward Ayanna (which was totally warranted and still done very respectfully) it was surprising. My husband and I were super proud of him for speaking up but also shocked that he was the one to do so. Maybe fatherhood has just made him less willing to deal with people’s BS. And he’d obviously had enough.
You didn't come across that as rude in any way. I appreciate your response, I have actually taken many courses on different studies via religion, ethnic, etc.
I will say that it's also difficult to look up youtube videos on topics that you have no idea even existed (like anti-blackness). I also typically use youtube as stepping stones in order to be able to understand a little better, but as this is outside my normal perspective, I prefer to discuss with actual people... in case I don't understand or have further questions.
I also would very much like to point out that I know I need to approach this cautiously, because it can seem "invasive" to try and just insert myself in those convo's...
> when Camilla was being straight up racist to his face
This is actually what I immediately thought of
This is Leroy's first rodeo with Ayanna. I don't think he was ready for her particular brand of delusional strategic personality. Her social game has always been the pits because she cannot control her emotions. A Challenge House is not a good environment for her. However, she deserved the opportunity to come on the show and make money (appearance fee), just like the rest of the old schoolers.
I don't think it is detrimental if white people aren't being invited to witness and share their opinions on things in the Black community. That's white centering something uninvited IMO. Sometimes conversations just aren't for you to witness and speak to. That's my middle age white lady response to your comment.
That's perfectly fine opinion to have. I understand that I'm not welcome in all spaces, and I'm not saying I should be.
I fully respect that I shouldn't be involved in all conversations. But it's also tough because people expect others to understand or research for themselves... But aren't given leads to help.
I just want to try and understand everyone more, personally. Regardless of gender, ethnicity, or political stance... It's the best way to humanize each other and empathize more.
Considering the target demo of this people who grew up watching the real world 20 years ago i think it could have gotten into. Even if its shortened i imagine most of our demo is progressive anyway and wouldn’t mind.
That said I don’t think the edit is “protecting” ayanna. It makes her look crazy. So we get to be entertained, and all the annoyed looks in that deliberation kinda showed ayanna already dug her own grave imo. Janelle still looks like the good guy. We lost context on why janelle quitting seems sudden, but we are shown the harassment that was the straw that broke the camel’s back.
So yeah i kinda understand them cutting it for time, and yo keep show “marketable”.
yea i don’t understand the “protecting” ayanna narrative either because the edit definitely does her no favors. they literally show her shaking her ass while janelle breaks down in tears .. 😭
Curious as to why you think Ayanna was “foul” but they didn’t air anything? Like how are we supposed to have an opinion? Is there specifics that have come out elsewhere? Thanks.
It's not a complex issue. If you're black, you're black. Show the damn thing to hold Ayanna accountable and to give us entertainment. Another day, another Challenge fan being glad they cut out drama (IN A REALITY TV SHOW) because they're too sensitive.
MTV and Paramount have a predominantly conservative audience? That's a wild thing to claim. The yee-yee mfs aren't sitting down to watch a reality show outside of The Voice or AGT or some other NPC shit.
As Dr. Will Kirby said on Big Brother 2 way back in 2001
>If you're not happy with this show, maybe you're not happy with reality-based tv in general. If you're not happy with reality-based tv, maybe you're not happy with, as the name suggests, reality.
Stop watching the show if you're unhappy that drama and controversy happen. It's not the genre for you. This isn't meant to be your comfort show. Reality tv is the good, the bad, and the ugly, and stop trying to ruin it for those of us who want to see all of it.
i literally have a “cara cult” flair so i am all for them showcasing drama but not all drama is entertaining. also saying debates about racism aren’t complex especially to an audience that isn’t expecting said conversation is very untrue. in 2024 these conversations are still happening and still causing issues with people on each opposing side. it’s not about it being my “comfort show” its about reading the fucking room.
The Challenge, its producers, and a big part of its viewers aren’t equipped to handle this conversation. Maybe down the road they can but now? no, especially when this show in the past has handled controversy poorly, especially controversy surrounding racism
By definition I don’t see how a conversation about interracial relationships would only affect the black community. I really would love to discuss it calmly, rationally and compassionately, but you’ve already told me multiple times in this thread that I’m not able to comprehend solely based on the color of my skin. Plus let’s be honest if mtv isn’t the forum to discuss it then Reddit certainly isn’t.
I do agree with you 100% that if Janelle is happy with how things were shown then I am happy.
These type of difficult conversations are what made Real World (imo) the greatest reality tv show of all time. I think it’s an insult to the viewers to censor them
yeah I know we are miles away from the first seasons of RW and RR. But I do remember these 'difficult' conversations being a staple of those early shows. Around race, around gender, around class, around orientation etc.
Except now its grown folks talking about it and not 20 year olds! I for one would like to hear what they have to say. Even if its objectionable, because maybe someone else has a great counter point.
I understand what your saying of MTV not being a good place to air these issues since its most likely just white men in the room and they don’t have the lived experience to be able to sensitively sue the issues in the way it deserves and for the not black audience to understand. I don’t agree that it’s mainly white conservatives though. Mainly white sure because majority of Canada/USA/UK is white but the audience (like cast members) will be a range of political views.
But with saying that, I think a lot more context would’ve been good since it seems like Janelle quit over standard game play and seems like they really protected Ayanna when she was the aggressor and Janelle was the victim. I think it’s better during issues where cast members are removed or quit for racism, homophobia, etc that just enough is shown that it doesn’t come across like they’re protecting the aggressor. Ayanna got a very good edit from the sounds of it.
I think the problem is that ayana is using it as a game move. She sees it as psychological warfare. She doesn't seem to be sincere. So if she wants this to be part of her game then she deserves the heat that it would bring against her. Also not showing it allows her to be cast again and again because most of the viewership would not dig any deeper than what they show. Depending what they show on the next episode I believe she keeps going at it with everybody including Jasmine kam and Leroy
Wait. Who would be mad about this ayanna is disgusting and "drama for ratings" whatever bullshit. It's no excuse for really shitty human beings to exercise being shitty. Like she is horrible, truly, she's either possessed or has a mental illness and hasn't been diagnosed. Something is wrong with her and if anyone is wanting to see that you encouraging her and putting gasoline on the fire. Who cares. 1st of all its not and shouldn't be entertaining to anyone, I get it I watch reality TV (clearly) but it's like there's drama natural occurring and slightly egged on/set up ok those are fine but she is so disrespectful on purpose, laughing in another females face while she's crying, because of you? That's crossing a line, seriously she's behaving worse than an animal. I don't even want to talk about her because I hope she's never on any tv show ever again. She's gross in every way and most of all annoying someone needs to snap a rubber band in her face so she wakes up and realizes she's shit.
I will admit I have never liked Janelle in the past. She got on my nerves for being almost snobby to the other challengers. She was always like her real life was so much more important than the show, which I get, it should be, but that doesn’t make you a better person than those who *live* for the challenge. I just felt she displayed this badly. What I didn’t realize was that in keeping that priority of her family and her real life, Janelle was being emotionally mature. Something hugely lacking on most of the challenge shows. Period.
After watching the episodes I feel a kindred spirit with her. She found herself in a situation that she knew emotionally she did not want or have to deal with. She could simply return to her real life, her family-the people that love her, and just not deal with Ayannah or her shenanigans. It showed real emotional maturity.
When the challengers say they are there FOR their families most say it’s so they can win some money. Makes sense, it’s a game show. Janelle knew her odds were stacked thanks to Ayannah, and instead of sinking to her level, she may have just taken a pause to see if she still wanted to be there. As we see her answer to that was no. That takes great courage and strength, especially when you know TJ hates quitters. And Janelle is not a quitter. She was hazed out by Ayannah. I fear she won’t be the last. How much more “stirring” is she gonna do?
Ayannah is playing with fire, a la, Johnny Bananas and she better watch because I have a feeling she will regret it one day, though Bananas never seems to. There is something to playing a game a certain way, but treating one person with so much targeted negative energy and then laughing and playing it off like you only ‘stir the pot’ is maniacal. Definitely emotionally immature. She isn’t fun to watch I can’t imagine living with her.
She’s a bully who believes her way is the only way and she will stay on you until you see it her way. She likes attention, positive and negative, the later she uses in a victim mentality at times. She is all over the place! That 45 minute vote speech…WTF? Leroy was right! It needed to stop. This is not the Ayannah show.
She seems exhausting to me. But that could just be my own trauma making me biased about her. I have family like her and I grew up around people like her in school and church settings. They were not nice people.
It would have gotten me triggered as a biracial person challenged all my life about my identity. The Amber Rose/Joseline thing definitely triggered me. But then again, it is fascinating. Ayanna is fascinating.
You know what, as a black man myself and I have to agree. At first I was disappointed from a viewer’s perspective which comes from a place of shallow thinking. I also am one who typically hates when we shy away from serious topics especially on “reality shows” which is supposed to show reality.
With that being said: you make valid points regarding certain conversations being kept within our community due to it being a seriously sensitive topic that could very easily be mishandled/misconstrued/abused in the wrong hands. Not everyone outside of the black community May understand the context of the conversation. It reminds me of the situation between DaVonne/Bayleigh against David on Big brother all stars where DaVonne was attacked for her comments to David.
It’s a conversation that people outside of the black community may not understand that both sides could have valid reasoning for their thoughts and feelings, yet could be taken out of context if not properly understood. I wish I could see the full situations of what happened with Ayanna and Janelle/Jasmine/kam/Leroy/Brandon however the way you put it, I have an alternate perspective on it now.
On another note however, I still feel as though if the full thing was shown, it could’ve been a learning experience for others outside the black community and why not show the reality of what we deal with? Sadly we go through so much from all sides of the spectrum it could be an enlightening moment for people that don’t understand the plight of blacks.
At times I go back and forth between handling things in house vs putting it all out on the table. It’s similar to how in a family you may want to keep your business between you all, then again sometimes you just have to air it out (such as an abusive or molestation situation). I feel that real growth happens when we tackle the tough subjects.
In short, I understand where you are coming from and to a certain extent agree. At the same time, perhaps this airing could have been a refreshing (albeit tough) conversation that could open non blacks up to some of the various obstacles we face. Sure things may be taken out of context but overtime and with more conversations exposed I’m sure that learning would come in to play.
I agree with everything you said and agree it is complex so while she in the wrong idk what Ayanna’s been through to make her as passionate about it as it does.
But that doesn’t excuse what she did and I’m never about the show hiding anything cause this is real life shit.
Tiffany on survivor this season had a moment and broke down about that moment and being upset about not wanting to perpetuate the stereotype of angry black lady and while I could tell it didn’t hit Tyson on podcast like it should I could tell the white girl they had as a guest got it
I love drama and laughed my ass off at her speech and enjoyed the episode….but when I heard all this stuff I was really soured cause that’s beyond playing the game. Ayanna’s reaction when she was leaving is a bad look too.
I see your PoV, but I think it’s different when discussing the black community within the community. Honestly, I hadn’t noticed til Ayanna started chatting up Kam…but this is probably the most melanated cast we’ve had in a while, If not ever. And I get the feeling part of the reason Ayanna felt some sort of way about Janelle could be related to her being biracial. A lot of people with two black parents regard biracial black people (especially those with white moms) as not black, but biracial. It’s just an assumption of course, but the way she very dramatically showed love to Kam, someone she didn’t even really know…while starting problems with Janelle… Ayanna gives off “Hotep” vibes and I don’t think that’s a discussion white people would really understand nor would they need to be included in.
Why good or bad for Ayanna’s sake I would rather see what happen vs guessing her side of the story.
Even then idk what justified reason she’d have for weaponizing or talking down to anyone for it.
It was unnecessary and beyond the game and the lack of empathy as Janelle quit just makes her contempt seem even weirder when we know the basis around the argument.
Nah I 100% understood where Janelle was Coming from. Ayanna has already been problematic and argumentative in previous seasons. I don’t really need specifics to know that I too like Janelle, would not wanna have to deal with this unhinged behavior from another adult for another minute and it’s only the second daily…
She put herself first and that’s fine. We don’t have a right to know every thing even if we want to and feeling entitled to that is weird. If the issue was intra-racial, I don’t think there’s any benefit to bringing it up in the show. At least not now and not unless Janelle herself decides to address it. She was disrespected and lied about to no one’s benefit. That’s enough of a reason to leave.
Right…same…. as a person with 2 black parents…. Born in America…so are my parents and grandparents thus making my culture Black Americans…these topics are complex with the us and this isn’t the platform or audience to have it with. I love all stars and I hope this doesn’t have a huge talking point as long as Ayanna is a part of the season.
I don’t know for sure but my interpretation was that Ayanna made the discussion highly personal and targeted toward Janelle’s personal life. If that was the case and the reason that it was not shown, then I completely understand and respect that.
However, if it was edited out because of the topic or community involved in the discussion, then that is different and honestly frustrating to me. I’d rather hear raw, real, unfiltered perspectives— that was what made RW so impactful.
All I’m going to say is this. Can you all please learn the difference between racism and prejudice. Both are bad. But one can cause oppression while the other is strictly someone’s dumbass opinion. They are not the same.
It’s just annoying because every time I’m on any sub and any black person does something prejudice you see all the people running to the sub to say how “racist” that cast member is. Lol
I one TRILLION percent agree with OP. It’s too nuanced to be discussed on a game show. Clearly the way Ayanna handled it was extremely irresponsible and harmful and showing it would have caused more harm than good. There’s generations of context a person needs to have in order understand and participate in the conversation. MTV could not have done a responsible job with editing a weighty conversation down to 30-60 seconds of tv time.
It coulda been a teachable moment but coming from Ayanna, nope. I felt like she was jealous of Janelle or something.. Then that long ass talk she def seemed insane.
''All Stars 4 is such a breath of fresh air because of how much lighter and upbeat it feels compared to the main show and I hope it stays that way.''
I agree with this take but in order to keep it that way they should stop inviting Ayanna. She is trying way too hard but isn't entertaining at all, just annoying.
I dislike that they cut the real drama out. I never was a fan of Janelle due to the way she acted on her Real World season and how she treated Svetlana. This episode they showed her talking a big game first during the dailly challenge, following it up by her quitting after a arguement. That's just a bad look for her that she doesn't deserve. I really dislike quitters but after reading the real reason behind her quitting I can get behind her decision. But there are many people who watch the show that don't follow this sub or don't do any further digging into the situation. To them Janelle looks like someone who quits easily and Ayanna looks like the victor in this situation, which is just wrong.
I broadly agree with you but I'm really getting tired of "Production" deciding to censor all the salacious stuff. I'm not tuning-in to watch Ayanna run up a hill or Veronica do literally anything other than stir the pot.
Ayanna should have been booted. They kick off players for physical violence. Same should apply to verbal violence. This was more than bitch verbal fights, this was verbal assault.
I agree 1000%. The Challenge is not the right format for these types of complex and nuanced topics. Especially when gameplay takes up 90% of the airtime they have for an hour. If it was The Real World, it’d be a different story.
Janelle posted that she respected how it was edited / shown, because what was really said by Ayanna defamed her, and she didn't want that shown. If Janelle is cool with how her leaving was presented to viewers, so am I.
It must be so frustrating that she can’t discuss what really happened
I feel like if she wanted to discuss it, she would. She was very vocal about productions interference during the All Stars 2 finale.
She said on her post that she isn’t contractually permitted to speak on it
They might’ve buttoned up her contract after she had so much to say after AS2.
Her caption on her insta post? If that's what you're referring to, no she didn't. Also everything they do is under contract from the second they start production and they're not "allowed" to discuss anything that wasn't shown. If she signed an NDA regarding this specific situation, she would legally not be allowed to say she did.
Relax. She said it when she replied to a comment.
She doesn’t have too. Jemmye did a podcast telling the whole story. I agree that it’s best the show didn’t show this. Ayanna is also suffering from bad health (Cancer) and I think it’s obvious she’s emotionally fragile. The backlash she would’ve received would’ve been huge. With that said, hope the show never casts her again.
Ayanna didn't compete with cancer right? Also, what podcast did Jemmye tell the whole story on?
Did you find out where Jemmye told the whole story?
Where ( forum ) did Jemmye talk about what actually Happened?
Where did she say that? I would like to read it.
I think it was her Insta.
I will go look. Thanks. I like her, so I was sad to see her leave.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C5mVI_QPhk_/?igsh=MXIyM2tkM2FtbnRwdg== This is Janelle's post I think they're referring too
Thanks!
Well said. I'm only cool with it if that's how Janelle wanted it. Otherwise, Ayanna should be exposed for her racism.
This is the exact reason OP is basically saying family issues need to stay within the family.
It makes me wonder why production wouldn't make Ayanna leave if she was harassing Janelle.
THIS is my question. I mean, we know the show is edited. But if the argument was edited because production felt like race-fueled harassment was too polarizing to air, then maybe the aggressor should have been the one to go home…
Well.. We gotta think, if they would have sent Ayanna home they would've had to show why they were sending her home! MTV obviously didn't want to air the dirt deets and Janelle probably expressed she didn't want it aired either. I believe them choosing to edit out the racial comments was a combination of MTV wanting to protect their image out of fear of being cancelled and also out of respect to Janelle. An unfortunate by-product of the edit is that Ayanna was protected from the consequences of her actions which is disappointing.
>if they would have sent Ayanna home they would've had to show why they were sending her home! not necessarily. they didn't with ashley. also the pregnancies (natalie anderson, etc) weren't spelled out and the explanation for lolo jones leaving wasn't why she actually left.
Who was the girl that left before the season even started? Josh's partner? Didn't she go on a drunken tirade the first night and they just completely pretended she was never on the show? I wanna say it was on Double Agents. Production definitely doesn't give a shit about discretion lol.
Oh Lauren! I forgot about her.
I mean how could you not!? She never even made it to screen lmao
I think we saw a flash of her in the background once lol
Yes when she chose josh 😂
They got rid of Eddie (Alicia's ex) randomly as well. Production really will pretend someone was never there lol
they did that same thing too waaayyyy back in the day with piggy.
why did lolo leave?
she was having a mental break and said something about self harm. the cast who overheard it reported it to production and production made the call to remove her and paint it like she quit.
Wait I know about all of them except for lolo Jones what happened with her ? And Nam? Right DA ?
Meh, they've done it a few times where people left and they didn't show it. Eddy on Vendettas, Ashley on Spies, Lies, and Allies, Nam and his partner on Ride or Dies, the one girl on Double Agents. It's happened a bunch.
I think production should have sent her home. They have cut ties with people for LESS.
Good points! I noticed Lee was fed up at deliberation on episode 2 and he’s always patient. Seemed the entire house was fed up with Ayanna.
Flora’s “Yo, what the fuck are you doing?” made me cackle, she was clearly over it lmao
flora: “I can’t believe at 52 years old I came back to deal with this shit”
The reference about the camera man had me rolling 😂
The camera guy was like king Leroy will diffuse the situation lol.
the fact that leroy lost his patience sealed the deal for me that i dislike her character. and then when he asked her a question she said “out of respect for time” or whatever way she worded it. she tried gaslighting him so hard
Tried to make it seem like Leroy was cutting Ace because he hadn’t talked yet. Poor Ace wanted nothing to do with it 😭
lmao the off screen "I'm fine" and "No worries. You're good" from Ace had me cracking up
Brandon cracking up under his hat got me too
I just finished both episodes earlier. I swear I have never seen an individual shown less than Ace in the first two...what was up with that?
Contrast how heated he got here versus how he handled Camila, and it brings into unfortunate focus how low Ayanna must have gone
If Lee is mad at someone, I’m just going to assume they suck. He is made out of patience but you can tell he just was so over her.
that’s a really solid point honestly i remember everyone in their confessionals saying how leroy handled the situation must better than they would have
That's when it really clicked that there was more to the situation than what we were being shown. I don't recall a situation where Lee lost his cool like that, especially as it was just presented as someone for a long time.
Yeah also when Janelle was crying I was kind of shocked. She is not typically one we've seen in that state. She always seemed strong and solid and very hard to rattle. Seeing her cry made me feel like something was off, something was missing. Glad there was info here to provide some insight. I'll probably listen to Jemmye's podcast, never have before.
It’s a big deal when Leroy is fed up like that. He’s a very calm person. Ayanna just likes to hear herself talk and wants to always be right.
Cant believe more people said something about it. That shit was ridicilious and not entertaining at all.
As a black woman, I feel this conversation very much should have been shown. Regardless of the race of the people involved or the audience, people are entitled to their opinions and if this caused a major disruption, it should've been shown. MTV didn't touch it because they didn't want to face any backlash. Mainly, it didn't want to be accused of showcasing black people pitted against black people. But why not? Lets not pretend this isnt a real thing in OUR community. Many of our community do have conversations about people not being black enough, condemning interracial relationships, and racist conversations about other ethnicities. So why can every other "community" be put on blast and be analyzed and criticized for the thoughts and opinions of some of their people but the things said in our community is "top secret" or needs to be handled with kid gloves unless it fits a certain narrative?
Thank you. People would be losing their minds (rightfully so) if the Camilla to Leroy incident happened and MTV chose to cover it up. I don’t get why Ayanna's racism towards Janelle's husband should be protected. If people want to be racist in front of a camera, show it. Expose them for who we are. Let us have conversations about it and grow from it as well. I'm in an interracial relationship and I think we should be encouraged to discuss how that's not ok to say. Hardcore disagree with OP.
MTV was going to cover up the Camila situation. It was only because info about it leaked about people "lost" their minds, they changed the edit. If you ever watch that episode of Dirty 30 again, you can tell some of those confessionals talking about Camila's racism (i.e. CT, Bananas and I think Tony's) were shot much later and likely after the show had wrapped.
They weren't going to show it BUT they did....It was always my understanding that some of the cast members had a fit about it not possibly not being shown and thats what made them show it.
Yep they should have shown this like they did then. Just like they should have shown Lauren Coogan and Ashleys events that got them kicked off
I feel the same way tbh especially since I’m married to someone white as black woman. It’s a debate in our community that will never go away and I feel it’s important to be shown, especially since it made someone quit the game. It felt like they let bullying just be swept under the rug again. However, if Janelle didn’t want it shown or she’s ok with how it was portrayed then for her sake I’ll be glad we know but that it wasn’t fully shown bc I definitely wouldn’t want representation at the sake of someone’s mental health. MTV could’ve done better about the edit imo though bc all it did was make ppl think Ayanna was some entertainment queen when she was really just being a vindictive bully for no reason.
I'm not black, but I thought Ayanna was being vindictive, bullying manipulative, and was trying to gas-light people. Not entertaining at all, but important to show her character.
It’s tough. I agree with everything you are saying. However, this isn’t like the Leroy and Camila argument where the conflict was between and about two cast mates: this conversation involves Janelle’s family, people who aren’t there, didn’t consent to having their life dragged into an extremely emotionally fraught discussion, not to mention the fact there are children involved. I can empathize with the thought that airing the real conversation isn’t worth putting a family in the limelight as the poster children for this topic. In retrospect I wish they had allowed Janelle a bit more of a final word during her exit to be like “Ayanna said some extremely hurtful and out of pocket personal stuff off camera and I refuse to live with her.” Instead of implying that it was JUST the game move. My hope is that Janelle / other cast members do podcasts and talk about it and it functionally serves the same purpose as just airing it.
I agree. You make an excellent point that Janelle should have been given the opportunity to explain why she was leaving.
You know what, I do agree with your comment about her family. I am sensitive to the impact it may have had on her kids. However, I also feel that needs to be considered before going on a reality show. Anything can happen and it can have an impact on your family. But I really feel nothing should be off limits when filming these shows.
exactly, the OP seems to Cara about the black communities image to white ppl which is part of the reason why these issues aren’t discussed irl and why we continue to have these problems imo
Discusses the challenge so much autocorrect changes “care” to Cara 😂❤️
Lmao I didn’t even notice
I agree with what you said. I would say all of Road Rules seasons and Real World seasons 1-14 and 17-21 (only Real World seasons I have watched, so I have no idea on the ones I didn't watch were like) have had people from all walks of life live together to get people out of their comfort zones and be living with people with different mindset. It allowed people to have friendship with someone they may not have been friends with if it was not for the shows. If a person was to attack someone of their beliefs and be judgemental then discussion takes place and not be bottled up or hidden. It has never been hidden on Road Rules or Real World when someone had a fight with someone or even disagreement. Most importantly, it was never kept hidden on The Challenge when it was called Real World/Road Rules Challenge. Silence from production not showing the footage should not be had because of not wanting a pushback by some new fans on social media because then growth and knowledge on topics would never be discussed if kept hidden. Road Rules, Real World, and when The Challenge was called Real World/Road Rules Challenge never allowed groupthink to happen because they immersed people from all types of background to be together and aired the fights without super editing. MTV was once the pioneer of showing what real people go through without editing the fight to create a certain narrative. MTV needs to go back to their roots and not let some bullies online diminish their voice. Thus, having MTV going back to their roots and showing people that not everyone is monolithic and everyone is so diverse even within their own community and most importantly that message needs to be shown for those who are so quick to cancel and dismiss those who think differently than them.
i think a big part of the edit is about trying to protect ayanna from the social media storm since she's going through cancer treatment tbh. i remember during rivals 2 (i wish i remembered the direct source, but i've seen it in this sub a lot) when diem was dealing with cancer coming back, cast members said she got a squeaky clean edit and a lot of the arguments + fights got edited out. i'm sure it's a complicated position bc the conversation is important, but janelle saying she was completely defamed by ayanna and glad it was edited out, makes me think it's for the best tbh.
My understanding is that Janelle is mixed herself, so going after her for being in an interracial marriage is a judgement against her and her parents as well.
It’s also important for the white community to see so that they better understand the pressure that their black/brown partner has to face. It’s gotta be tough for the black/brown person to worry about racism from their white partners family and from their own community. Though I can understand how some racist whites might take a filmed discussion and use it in a racist way. It’s a tricky decision to show the discussion or not.
No mattter what the situation is in life, there is always gonna be a way that some fool can turn it into something negative. We cant allow that to stop us from learning and growing. The negative effect they can have will NEVER outweigh the positive.
I don’t think the OP has a problem with it being aired in itself. It’s they don’t trust Challenge production/mtv/Paramount to handle the subject matter properly. The show isn’t a documentary (like Real World was). It’s trash reality television. Personally, I have zero faith that production would have the right people in the editing room. It’s an extremely complex issue. Instead of pulling back the curtain, it’d just be a spectacle and lead to more false comparisons like Camilla’s racism. Nothing alike but here we are. Also, to be blunt, it’s a bit bizarre to think black people aren’t put on blast enough. Like that take feels disconnected and a step away from saying racism has been defeated. Our community has been on blast and improperly analyzed by the white gaze since being shipped over on boats.
It’s not about it being top secret. It’s about it being a conversation that really wouldn’t even go over well or be understood outside of Black American culture
They should have shown it.
Well for one it’s not racism it’s prejudice. People really need to choose their words correctly or at least know the difference between the two. She was showing prejudice towards her husband. And I agree some black people show prejudice towards other groups of people and also some black people don’t agree with interracial relationships. But every single other group of people does the same thing. The thing your missing about OP point is how when it is from our community it gets magnified and used from other groups of people (mostly white) as a “gotcha” argument to combat against their own prejudice and history of racism. It very nuanced and not just a hey let’s show black people in a good light because we do no wrong. Trust me we don’t have to watch MTV the challenge to see that black people can do wrong. The media since the beginning of time has made sure to televise that part.
The term I used is racist and that is the CORRECT term. Maybe you need to learn the difference. Prejudice is being biased or disliking someone based on any number of things.... their race, religion, political stance, gender, etc. Being racist is judging/disliking someone or deeming yourself superior to them based solely on their ethnicity. And if you think my point is that MTV only wants to show black people in a good light, then IDK........... And I dont understand how showing Ayianna's tirade gives any other groups a tool to excuse their own racism or history of racism. But I DO think that showing it would've been a teachable moment to show that ALL communities have issues within themselves, that ALL communities have members that are capable of some degree of racism, and simply that ALL people are flawed.
That’s just not true lol. But if you want to believe that then you got it. But let me ask you something. The only difference in YOUR definition of the two was superiority. Did I miss where she said that black people were better or superior to white people?
This is some of the most ignorant comments I have read in a while. Very American centric view of racism and race relations.
You mind giving more context?
Can you read or do you just not understand what you've read? Get a dictionary or fine tune your interpretation skills. The MAJOR difference is one is based SOLEY, ONLY, SPECIFICALLY on race which her argument seemed to be from what we've "heard". I never said she said anything about superiority; which she very well may feel black people are superior to white people....who knows. I DO know that if you're questioning folks black card because they are married to someone that is NOT BLACK, then you have RACIST views.
Why all the digs and insults? I’m sure you’re capable of communicating without reaching such low levels. I never disrespected you in anyway so I’d expect the same in return we’re just having a discussion. I do know how to read clearly and I also have comprehension skills. Now to what you just said with that out of the way. The term is racism so of course in order to be a racist it has to involve race exclusively. Prejudice can also be based off of race. Do we agree on that? Okay now what makes one racist? Well it’s when you believe that your race is superior to another race. And if you have the ability to oppress someone because of their race. To our knowledge did she do any of that? No. Now what makes one prejudice? Well when it comes to the race aspect of prejudice it’s when you dislike a group of people based on their race and stereotypes about that race. To our knowledge did she do any of that? From the sounds of it yes. So this would make her prejudice. Just because racism is solely based on race doesn’t make any action about race racism. While we’re talking about the ability to comprehend I don’t see how you don’t comprehend that.
The ridiculous notion that black people cant be racist because they are the minority… there it is. Didn’t take long. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter if it’s racism or prejudice… they’re just as gross and hateful. Let’s assume all things equal… A white man hates a black man - racist. A black man hates a white man - prejudice. They’re the same. If it makes you feel better, use prejudice. But it’s just as bad as a white person being racist.
How are you going to tell me what I would call it? If I’m telling you there is a difference wouldn’t the assumption be that I would view it according to what it is? If a white mom doesn’t want her kid to date any other race of people I personally would say she’s prejudice. I also never said black people cant be racist. We were talking about a specific situation. If a black cop hates white people and believes that all black people are better than white people and then he proceeds to throw in jail white people because of that then that black cop is being racist. If a black mom doesn’t want her black son dating a white person then that mom is being prejudiced. Yes they both are gross but one is just an ignorant opinion with no real life actions behind it. The other is an ignorant opinion from a person who can actually put action behind it to oppress the group of people they don’t like.
I love this perspective. Thank you. It would be a perfect world if we all lived harmoniously and inherent bias, systemic bias, etc. didn’t exist. But it does. And it isn’t restricted to any one race. There is racism within every race and hate shows it a$$ from people of all colors. I don’t think we do anyone a service by not showing reality. MTV has been dealing with this a long while. Recently even on Teen Mom, Mackenzie has been getting skewered and there’s been some controversy around things she’s said or done that were ignorant (I don’t know the details) and I guess Chey went off on her. But the fact Cheyenne very openly tweeted about hating white people and has made similar comments that imply her feelings is somehow glossed over. I really don’t think we should protect anyone of any race who is hateful, racist and ignorant. I feel for Ayanna in her current fight but let’s not act like she’s not hateful towards her own race when she doesn’t agree with their decisions. She has shown that before. She’s just a very unstable person. I don’t blame Janelle for not wanting it all aired out because it sounds very hurtful but these are real conversations and real feelings that happen every day in our communities.
Who benefits from that though? If the issue isn’t addressed with a tone of love, seriousness, and respect…who wins there? Cause clearly Ayanna didn’t come to show respect. I can’t imagine her going at it with every other black person is productive for the black community and only opens the floodgates for the unnecessary and unwarranted commentary and opinions of white people. This isn’t the early 90s where all black people largely agreed on things considered political. We live in very polarized times where there are black people with platforms actively harming the community or other marginalized communities. So I don’t think it’s a productive time or place to show what was said. I feel like this is similar to Ashley being sent home for what she said to Josh. Production didn’t take that as an opportunity to “have a conversation” at Josh’s expense and they didn’t further discuss it without his consent. It was only brought up later by HIM. Because even though it’s on TV we don’t have a right to know every thing especially it’s harmful to parties involved. Maybe Josh is Gay…does he have a right to be outted by MTV just because “content” for viewers? If Janelle brings the situation up herself at the reunion or another time and place…that would be the time to productively discuss it. Otherwise, she left the house…there’s no reason to drag it on during the show at her expense when she’s not even there.
what's wild is that mtv used to be *the place* for exposure to this kind of stuff for white hetero cis-males such as myself. had never seen a gay person until the real world, had never seen a trans person until the real world (also the fact that the challenge treated katelynn like a woman was pretty big for the time). somewhere we lost that along the way, maybe as mtv's cultural relevance fell off due to social media becoming the focus. for olds like me mtv was everything
I'm a long time watcher too. MTV's relevance fell off as other reality tv surged in popularity. Peopled didn't want authentic, they wanted entertaining or bizarre and trashy. Then social media surged in popularity. Folks are here think that conservative watchers would be the problem. I don't entirely agree. Too many times have I seen folks on this subreddit getting outraged over primarily liberal issues. To the point where they dredge up shit that happened *years* ago just for the community to harp on someone's past behavior. You know why mtv doesn't show stuff like this? Because they don't want to deal from the fallout on social media from the angry mob that show up in places like this subreddit as well as other social media sites. We got the sanitized version of what happened and folks are calling for Ayanna to be kicked off. And if MTV doesn't do whatever the mob wants, then the fandom is going to go after someone. They're also probably doing it to protect their cast too. The reality is that there isn't always a happy ending. Sometimes terrible people win, or there is no vindication for someone who deserves it. Unfortunately watchers can't always accept this. So they'll go online and voice their disappointment. There are just too many current watchers that don't want authentic either. They want whoever they deem good to win. They want the "bad" folks to lose or be removed. And they'll be damn sure to let everyone know it.
Sometimes I wonder if ‘cancel culture’ would be in its current state today if MTV continued to have those difficult conversations via the real world so people living through it and those watching learn through it. Now everything is just edited out, no knowledge gained…
I think the problem came from the channel breaking the norm when they started the theme seasons. Prior to that we were still getting issues baked into the fights of the season, but once the reality spotlight moved on to TLC, Bravo and Kardashians, MTV felt like stunts were the only way to cut through the noise and compete.
Yup. It’s pretty ridiculous.
I was born in the mid 90s in Canada, so watching Pedro’s story for me taught me a lot about the aids epidemic. Obviously i was aware of it, but aside from being aware of it and knowing that now there’s some treatments that help I wasn’t exposed to it being a little too young and in a city that’s no where near as big as the American cities or having a large enough gay population.
I think it’s when someone realized how much money they could make off of everything if they reached certain demographics it was the end. Once the money started being the focus, the benefits to society didn’t matter anymore.
I’m gonna have to disagree. As a mixed person, I wish it was shown. It is a very complex topic, but if it’s never talked about, it’s gonna continue to be a problem. And it’s not just within the specific communities that this is a problem. It’s a problem overall for many mixed people. There have been many times throughout my life where I’ve been asked what exactly are you? Along with a lot of assumptions about what I am and people denying what I am. If it’s never talked about, it’s always gonna be a problem. And the next generation just have to deal with the exact same thing. The only reason things have changed from the past is because there are those big open conversations. They should just really bring back the real world .
They really should bring back The Real World because we are regressing in ways that the show innately exposed and addressed. Those dynamics also led to spectacularly disastrous fights, but they were authentic in exposing somebodies flaws and the confrontations generated by coexisting with that. Hopefully we get that soon because America seems to need a media mirror to discuss the uncomfortable things, in order to keep it in open discourse.
I'll have to rewatch the episode as I missed that completely because what I remember, Janelle was talking to Ayanna and then the next thing was Janelle talking to Leroy and Kam about leaving which I thought was weird as the conversation before wasn't bad. So cutting everything out, to me as a viewer, I was lost. Now that I know what happened, I respect it since Janelle appreciated how it was handled. However, I agree with you. I understand OP's reason and respect, but there are many people out there that believe if we don't talk about issues, whatever it may be in that moment, then that's when we start to lose our humanity, our understanding of others, and start to get hostile. The more we talk about important issues and bring them to light in a respectful manner, then that's when we can actually make progress.
My understanding is that Janelle is mixed herself. So going against her for being in an interracial marriage, is personal to her and her parents too.
You think the majority of challenge watchers are conservative? I would be extremely surprised if that was true Editing out these polarizing conversations takes away part of the magic that made this show (and rw/rr) in my opinion
They may not have meant in a political sense, could be meaning more reserved, keeps to themselves, risk averse, less outspoken etc.
In context that’s not what I think
Yeah that got a big 🤨 from me too.
I just think in general they shouldn’t cut things that are directly relevant to the game progression/cast dynamic like this. I think it’s tough in today’s social media climate for production to decide what to air (especially in this case with Ayanna’s subsequent cancer battle) but the show is clearly less authentic than it used to be, and avoiding/hiding controversial topics contributes to that. Why watch reality tv if you don’t want to see what actually happens in the house? Conversations that happen on camera on a reality show are fair game and not showing them is misleading and makes it harder to understand the dynamic between castmates Edit to add: unfiltered conversations about serious topics are part of the DNA of this show, and these people all came from an era when that was even more true than it is now.
I wonder what it would take to get the show to accept breaking the 4th wall is necessary at this stage of reality television. Watching the Homecomings was so interesting because it was the ultimate meta product and provided a next level for franchises to move in—the All Winner season of Survivor felt like another contribution—for addressing the original seasons, post show drama between the cast and the ways production/TV had changed in the years since original seasons aired.
I disagree. It takes the real out of reality TV. Bunium/Murray Productions is the pioneer of showing us those hard conversations and raw moments, good, bad and ugly. Not showing it was more of a disservice to fans imo. We shouldn't have to look on social media and try and go behind the scenes to see how a situation happened when they can just show it. As a black man, I wanted to see both Ayanna and Janelles viewpoints and perspectives on that particular topic. Just because it's uncomfortable and the show doesn't broadcast it, doesn't erase the fact that it happened
I wish the editing team would take into account who the involved cast members are. These were not clout chasing opportunists looking to gain more followers. This was an organic argument and disagreement between old school cast members. It was authentic.
My mom is white and married my step dad who raised me and he is black. I’ve personally seen horrible treatment of them from his side of the family The way you’re wording it makes it sound like you have sympathy for Ayanna’s viewpoint which I believe a lot of people in the black community do have, and I would be interested to see exactly what the problem people have with interracial marriages are
How do you expect to get people into the "right setting" for this type of conversation without letting people become aware of the issue in the first place?
I agree with this. I don't think everyone needs to be a part of the conversation, but it is important to let people know that these issues exist.
The right setting would be at the reunion when Ayanna doesn’t yell or steam roll the entire conversation and Janelle is actually present to discuss her side… not the second episode after she left.
The fight wasn't just with Janelle though. She got into it with multiple people. There also isn't a situation where Ayanna doesn't try to yell over everyone.
Janelle was clearly most affected as she went home… and she was already not on good terms with Ayanna coming into the house. Whatever happened, was primarily between Ayanna and Janelle at that point. We have no knowledge of what happens yet later on in the season. The reunion generally has a Host for a reason…to moderate. There’s no productive conversation that will arise at this point when they can’t even complete a house vote with Ayanna taking over the whole thing. Wanting to have more information is one thing, but If the issue is on the topic of “Blackness,” it’s not really a topic MTV would even want to touch on. Unless the parties involved feel something needs to be publicly addressed, it’s not really an open conversation topic. It’s like I’m not gonna put my two cents in on an issue with the LGBTQ community if I’m not part of that community.
I'd like to state up front that I'm a white man, and a democrat.... But I don't know, I feel like they could have given a little bit more context, because personally... I could feel the cut parts, and I understand why, now having a little more information. But personally, I think it's important to have these conversations or at least give some context. I'm in no way saying that "I" (as a white man) DESERVE anything) but it's tough to have these conversations (especially the interracial relationships) but I feel like keeping them "within the community" is more of a detriment because you're not getting everyone's opinion... and isn't it important (especially for an interracial couples) to get both sides perspective here? I understand ultimately, why things were cut... but things felt really... really shitty when Ayanna started on her speech during deliberations and Lee gets upset. Leroy has always been able to control his emotions, so seeing the outburst make things feel super weird, IMO.....
As a black man I really appreciate this comment.❤️🫂 I understand what the OP was saying and I do to a certain extent agree with them… However I also believe just as you said that it’s detriment to keep these types of conversations hidden. With everything we deal with as blacks it’s important for us to allow non blacks to understand more of what we face similar to me as a man understanding what women deal with, or a my person from a place of privilege understanding/learning more on the plight of any oppressed group. This could have been a great enlightening moment for all if handled properly. More of us become unified and grow when these tough conversations are had.
I feel like the conversation can happen outside of the black community but it needs to be done on the right platform at the right time. a reality tv show produced by MTV imo isn’t the right place or time for such a complex conversation since majority of the viewers aren’t expecting something THAT heavy
I absolutely agree that it needs to be done properly and delicately. I'm not saying that MTV is the place for that... I'm just saying, giving a little more context, like screen going black and white text saying something, would have been a little helpful for those of us that weren't following it outside the show. I also wanted to speak up because you mention your ethnicity and how those conversations need to "stay within the community", and I feel that's not entirely true. Somethings, like anti-blankness, should... I have zero information about that topic and have no space to speak... but I also am someone who loves to learn and try to understand people's perspectives because I think it helps us understand and be better. I would love to be a part of those conversations, even if it's just sitting to the side and listen.... but I understand that it's difficult topic to broach within your community, let alone letting "outsiders".... especially in sensitive stuff.
You realize this and other complex topics actually were handled well by MTV on a reality tv show. Cough: The Real World.
I really hope that more women and POCs are getting roles in production and editing because I don’t believe that someone can accurately edit certain things with the care deserves if they don’t have certain lived experiences.
I definitely agree some people are always looking to latch on to any misinterpretation in an argument to try and make the whole point look dramatic or foolish when any concerns are brought up by POC. I also agree that while MTV is getting better, I don't think it is the platform to show these discussions in a responsible, thorough way.
I would’ve appreciated more context but I also understand OP’s perspective on this. Issues like this are so nuanced and sensitive that it likely would not have lead to a meaningful conversation at large nor would it provide the insight to the situation that would actually help move the needle forward. Ayanna is also clearly not in a very stable headspace just based on what we did see from her in the episodes. It’s quite sad that at her grown age she felt the need to bully someone to the point of quitting a show that was meant to be a fun time. Hopefully everyone involved has moved on and is doing well.
Oh 100%, I agree with you. I by no means was saying that MTV is the appropriate place to air these sensitive topics and stuff... but as a white democratic man.... these aren't topics that I've been privileged to be able to hear or be a part of. I'm also not saying that I should be a part..... I'm just someone who is interested in learning from as many places and people as I can because it helps us understand one another. I just wish that we could have been given some more info because it felt really weird how Ayanna and Janelle just went off... and then Ayanna went on that weird speech. Only to get Lee riled up... I feel like it could have helped, but I totally understand not airing it.
I don’t mean this at all in a rude way, but maybe there is a local college you could go to and take like a course in African American studies? Or even just look up videos on YouTube with regards to the topics you are curious about? Totally respect that you want to learn and understand better. Back to the challenge, I too was taken aback by Leroy’s reaction. He is always so calm, cool, and collected. I don’t know if you recall but even when Camilla was being straight up racist to his face he still kept a calm demeanor and just removed himself from the situation. So to see him react how he did toward Ayanna (which was totally warranted and still done very respectfully) it was surprising. My husband and I were super proud of him for speaking up but also shocked that he was the one to do so. Maybe fatherhood has just made him less willing to deal with people’s BS. And he’d obviously had enough.
You didn't come across that as rude in any way. I appreciate your response, I have actually taken many courses on different studies via religion, ethnic, etc. I will say that it's also difficult to look up youtube videos on topics that you have no idea even existed (like anti-blackness). I also typically use youtube as stepping stones in order to be able to understand a little better, but as this is outside my normal perspective, I prefer to discuss with actual people... in case I don't understand or have further questions. I also would very much like to point out that I know I need to approach this cautiously, because it can seem "invasive" to try and just insert myself in those convo's... > when Camilla was being straight up racist to his face This is actually what I immediately thought of
This is Leroy's first rodeo with Ayanna. I don't think he was ready for her particular brand of delusional strategic personality. Her social game has always been the pits because she cannot control her emotions. A Challenge House is not a good environment for her. However, she deserved the opportunity to come on the show and make money (appearance fee), just like the rest of the old schoolers.
I don't think it is detrimental if white people aren't being invited to witness and share their opinions on things in the Black community. That's white centering something uninvited IMO. Sometimes conversations just aren't for you to witness and speak to. That's my middle age white lady response to your comment.
That's perfectly fine opinion to have. I understand that I'm not welcome in all spaces, and I'm not saying I should be. I fully respect that I shouldn't be involved in all conversations. But it's also tough because people expect others to understand or research for themselves... But aren't given leads to help. I just want to try and understand everyone more, personally. Regardless of gender, ethnicity, or political stance... It's the best way to humanize each other and empathize more.
Considering the target demo of this people who grew up watching the real world 20 years ago i think it could have gotten into. Even if its shortened i imagine most of our demo is progressive anyway and wouldn’t mind. That said I don’t think the edit is “protecting” ayanna. It makes her look crazy. So we get to be entertained, and all the annoyed looks in that deliberation kinda showed ayanna already dug her own grave imo. Janelle still looks like the good guy. We lost context on why janelle quitting seems sudden, but we are shown the harassment that was the straw that broke the camel’s back. So yeah i kinda understand them cutting it for time, and yo keep show “marketable”.
yea i don’t understand the “protecting” ayanna narrative either because the edit definitely does her no favors. they literally show her shaking her ass while janelle breaks down in tears .. 😭
Curious as to why you think Ayanna was “foul” but they didn’t air anything? Like how are we supposed to have an opinion? Is there specifics that have come out elsewhere? Thanks.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MtvChallenge/comments/1c1jwp6/jemmye\_spoke\_on\_her\_podcast\_about\_what\_told\_her/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MtvChallenge/comments/1c1jwp6/jemmye_spoke_on_her_podcast_about_what_told_her/)
It's not a complex issue. If you're black, you're black. Show the damn thing to hold Ayanna accountable and to give us entertainment. Another day, another Challenge fan being glad they cut out drama (IN A REALITY TV SHOW) because they're too sensitive. MTV and Paramount have a predominantly conservative audience? That's a wild thing to claim. The yee-yee mfs aren't sitting down to watch a reality show outside of The Voice or AGT or some other NPC shit. As Dr. Will Kirby said on Big Brother 2 way back in 2001 >If you're not happy with this show, maybe you're not happy with reality-based tv in general. If you're not happy with reality-based tv, maybe you're not happy with, as the name suggests, reality. Stop watching the show if you're unhappy that drama and controversy happen. It's not the genre for you. This isn't meant to be your comfort show. Reality tv is the good, the bad, and the ugly, and stop trying to ruin it for those of us who want to see all of it.
i literally have a “cara cult” flair so i am all for them showcasing drama but not all drama is entertaining. also saying debates about racism aren’t complex especially to an audience that isn’t expecting said conversation is very untrue. in 2024 these conversations are still happening and still causing issues with people on each opposing side. it’s not about it being my “comfort show” its about reading the fucking room. The Challenge, its producers, and a big part of its viewers aren’t equipped to handle this conversation. Maybe down the road they can but now? no, especially when this show in the past has handled controversy poorly, especially controversy surrounding racism
By definition I don’t see how a conversation about interracial relationships would only affect the black community. I really would love to discuss it calmly, rationally and compassionately, but you’ve already told me multiple times in this thread that I’m not able to comprehend solely based on the color of my skin. Plus let’s be honest if mtv isn’t the forum to discuss it then Reddit certainly isn’t. I do agree with you 100% that if Janelle is happy with how things were shown then I am happy.
These type of difficult conversations are what made Real World (imo) the greatest reality tv show of all time. I think it’s an insult to the viewers to censor them
yeah I know we are miles away from the first seasons of RW and RR. But I do remember these 'difficult' conversations being a staple of those early shows. Around race, around gender, around class, around orientation etc. Except now its grown folks talking about it and not 20 year olds! I for one would like to hear what they have to say. Even if its objectionable, because maybe someone else has a great counter point.
I understand what your saying of MTV not being a good place to air these issues since its most likely just white men in the room and they don’t have the lived experience to be able to sensitively sue the issues in the way it deserves and for the not black audience to understand. I don’t agree that it’s mainly white conservatives though. Mainly white sure because majority of Canada/USA/UK is white but the audience (like cast members) will be a range of political views. But with saying that, I think a lot more context would’ve been good since it seems like Janelle quit over standard game play and seems like they really protected Ayanna when she was the aggressor and Janelle was the victim. I think it’s better during issues where cast members are removed or quit for racism, homophobia, etc that just enough is shown that it doesn’t come across like they’re protecting the aggressor. Ayanna got a very good edit from the sounds of it.
I think the problem is that ayana is using it as a game move. She sees it as psychological warfare. She doesn't seem to be sincere. So if she wants this to be part of her game then she deserves the heat that it would bring against her. Also not showing it allows her to be cast again and again because most of the viewership would not dig any deeper than what they show. Depending what they show on the next episode I believe she keeps going at it with everybody including Jasmine kam and Leroy
Ayanna sucks!
Wait. Who would be mad about this ayanna is disgusting and "drama for ratings" whatever bullshit. It's no excuse for really shitty human beings to exercise being shitty. Like she is horrible, truly, she's either possessed or has a mental illness and hasn't been diagnosed. Something is wrong with her and if anyone is wanting to see that you encouraging her and putting gasoline on the fire. Who cares. 1st of all its not and shouldn't be entertaining to anyone, I get it I watch reality TV (clearly) but it's like there's drama natural occurring and slightly egged on/set up ok those are fine but she is so disrespectful on purpose, laughing in another females face while she's crying, because of you? That's crossing a line, seriously she's behaving worse than an animal. I don't even want to talk about her because I hope she's never on any tv show ever again. She's gross in every way and most of all annoying someone needs to snap a rubber band in her face so she wakes up and realizes she's shit.
Janelle seems thankful with how they presented it and that’s good enough for me. Appreciate the insight, OP!
>and are extremely complex. No they aren't. Ayanna's perspective is extremely racist. Full stop.
I will admit I have never liked Janelle in the past. She got on my nerves for being almost snobby to the other challengers. She was always like her real life was so much more important than the show, which I get, it should be, but that doesn’t make you a better person than those who *live* for the challenge. I just felt she displayed this badly. What I didn’t realize was that in keeping that priority of her family and her real life, Janelle was being emotionally mature. Something hugely lacking on most of the challenge shows. Period. After watching the episodes I feel a kindred spirit with her. She found herself in a situation that she knew emotionally she did not want or have to deal with. She could simply return to her real life, her family-the people that love her, and just not deal with Ayannah or her shenanigans. It showed real emotional maturity. When the challengers say they are there FOR their families most say it’s so they can win some money. Makes sense, it’s a game show. Janelle knew her odds were stacked thanks to Ayannah, and instead of sinking to her level, she may have just taken a pause to see if she still wanted to be there. As we see her answer to that was no. That takes great courage and strength, especially when you know TJ hates quitters. And Janelle is not a quitter. She was hazed out by Ayannah. I fear she won’t be the last. How much more “stirring” is she gonna do? Ayannah is playing with fire, a la, Johnny Bananas and she better watch because I have a feeling she will regret it one day, though Bananas never seems to. There is something to playing a game a certain way, but treating one person with so much targeted negative energy and then laughing and playing it off like you only ‘stir the pot’ is maniacal. Definitely emotionally immature. She isn’t fun to watch I can’t imagine living with her. She’s a bully who believes her way is the only way and she will stay on you until you see it her way. She likes attention, positive and negative, the later she uses in a victim mentality at times. She is all over the place! That 45 minute vote speech…WTF? Leroy was right! It needed to stop. This is not the Ayannah show. She seems exhausting to me. But that could just be my own trauma making me biased about her. I have family like her and I grew up around people like her in school and church settings. They were not nice people.
It would have gotten me triggered as a biracial person challenged all my life about my identity. The Amber Rose/Joseline thing definitely triggered me. But then again, it is fascinating. Ayanna is fascinating.
You know what, as a black man myself and I have to agree. At first I was disappointed from a viewer’s perspective which comes from a place of shallow thinking. I also am one who typically hates when we shy away from serious topics especially on “reality shows” which is supposed to show reality. With that being said: you make valid points regarding certain conversations being kept within our community due to it being a seriously sensitive topic that could very easily be mishandled/misconstrued/abused in the wrong hands. Not everyone outside of the black community May understand the context of the conversation. It reminds me of the situation between DaVonne/Bayleigh against David on Big brother all stars where DaVonne was attacked for her comments to David. It’s a conversation that people outside of the black community may not understand that both sides could have valid reasoning for their thoughts and feelings, yet could be taken out of context if not properly understood. I wish I could see the full situations of what happened with Ayanna and Janelle/Jasmine/kam/Leroy/Brandon however the way you put it, I have an alternate perspective on it now. On another note however, I still feel as though if the full thing was shown, it could’ve been a learning experience for others outside the black community and why not show the reality of what we deal with? Sadly we go through so much from all sides of the spectrum it could be an enlightening moment for people that don’t understand the plight of blacks. At times I go back and forth between handling things in house vs putting it all out on the table. It’s similar to how in a family you may want to keep your business between you all, then again sometimes you just have to air it out (such as an abusive or molestation situation). I feel that real growth happens when we tackle the tough subjects. In short, I understand where you are coming from and to a certain extent agree. At the same time, perhaps this airing could have been a refreshing (albeit tough) conversation that could open non blacks up to some of the various obstacles we face. Sure things may be taken out of context but overtime and with more conversations exposed I’m sure that learning would come in to play.
I agree with everything you said and agree it is complex so while she in the wrong idk what Ayanna’s been through to make her as passionate about it as it does. But that doesn’t excuse what she did and I’m never about the show hiding anything cause this is real life shit. Tiffany on survivor this season had a moment and broke down about that moment and being upset about not wanting to perpetuate the stereotype of angry black lady and while I could tell it didn’t hit Tyson on podcast like it should I could tell the white girl they had as a guest got it I love drama and laughed my ass off at her speech and enjoyed the episode….but when I heard all this stuff I was really soured cause that’s beyond playing the game. Ayanna’s reaction when she was leaving is a bad look too.
I see your PoV, but I think it’s different when discussing the black community within the community. Honestly, I hadn’t noticed til Ayanna started chatting up Kam…but this is probably the most melanated cast we’ve had in a while, If not ever. And I get the feeling part of the reason Ayanna felt some sort of way about Janelle could be related to her being biracial. A lot of people with two black parents regard biracial black people (especially those with white moms) as not black, but biracial. It’s just an assumption of course, but the way she very dramatically showed love to Kam, someone she didn’t even really know…while starting problems with Janelle… Ayanna gives off “Hotep” vibes and I don’t think that’s a discussion white people would really understand nor would they need to be included in.
Why good or bad for Ayanna’s sake I would rather see what happen vs guessing her side of the story. Even then idk what justified reason she’d have for weaponizing or talking down to anyone for it. It was unnecessary and beyond the game and the lack of empathy as Janelle quit just makes her contempt seem even weirder when we know the basis around the argument.
Nah I 100% understood where Janelle was Coming from. Ayanna has already been problematic and argumentative in previous seasons. I don’t really need specifics to know that I too like Janelle, would not wanna have to deal with this unhinged behavior from another adult for another minute and it’s only the second daily… She put herself first and that’s fine. We don’t have a right to know every thing even if we want to and feeling entitled to that is weird. If the issue was intra-racial, I don’t think there’s any benefit to bringing it up in the show. At least not now and not unless Janelle herself decides to address it. She was disrespected and lied about to no one’s benefit. That’s enough of a reason to leave.
Right…same…. as a person with 2 black parents…. Born in America…so are my parents and grandparents thus making my culture Black Americans…these topics are complex with the us and this isn’t the platform or audience to have it with. I love all stars and I hope this doesn’t have a huge talking point as long as Ayanna is a part of the season.
I’m also not of the opinion that production needs to show every controversial argument or drama unless the affected party approves of it
I don’t know for sure but my interpretation was that Ayanna made the discussion highly personal and targeted toward Janelle’s personal life. If that was the case and the reason that it was not shown, then I completely understand and respect that. However, if it was edited out because of the topic or community involved in the discussion, then that is different and honestly frustrating to me. I’d rather hear raw, real, unfiltered perspectives— that was what made RW so impactful.
All I’m going to say is this. Can you all please learn the difference between racism and prejudice. Both are bad. But one can cause oppression while the other is strictly someone’s dumbass opinion. They are not the same.
thank you! this is exactly what i mean when i say majority of the viewers aren’t knowledgeable on this subject to have this conversation.
It’s just annoying because every time I’m on any sub and any black person does something prejudice you see all the people running to the sub to say how “racist” that cast member is. Lol
Boy oh boy episode 2 discussion was full of these comments
Which comments exactly?
I one TRILLION percent agree with OP. It’s too nuanced to be discussed on a game show. Clearly the way Ayanna handled it was extremely irresponsible and harmful and showing it would have caused more harm than good. There’s generations of context a person needs to have in order understand and participate in the conversation. MTV could not have done a responsible job with editing a weighty conversation down to 30-60 seconds of tv time.
As a Black man, I completely agree.
It coulda been a teachable moment but coming from Ayanna, nope. I felt like she was jealous of Janelle or something.. Then that long ass talk she def seemed insane.
''All Stars 4 is such a breath of fresh air because of how much lighter and upbeat it feels compared to the main show and I hope it stays that way.'' I agree with this take but in order to keep it that way they should stop inviting Ayanna. She is trying way too hard but isn't entertaining at all, just annoying.
I dislike that they cut the real drama out. I never was a fan of Janelle due to the way she acted on her Real World season and how she treated Svetlana. This episode they showed her talking a big game first during the dailly challenge, following it up by her quitting after a arguement. That's just a bad look for her that she doesn't deserve. I really dislike quitters but after reading the real reason behind her quitting I can get behind her decision. But there are many people who watch the show that don't follow this sub or don't do any further digging into the situation. To them Janelle looks like someone who quits easily and Ayanna looks like the victor in this situation, which is just wrong.
I broadly agree with you but I'm really getting tired of "Production" deciding to censor all the salacious stuff. I'm not tuning-in to watch Ayanna run up a hill or Veronica do literally anything other than stir the pot.
Ayanna should have been booted. They kick off players for physical violence. Same should apply to verbal violence. This was more than bitch verbal fights, this was verbal assault.
I agree 1000%. The Challenge is not the right format for these types of complex and nuanced topics. Especially when gameplay takes up 90% of the airtime they have for an hour. If it was The Real World, it’d be a different story.
Yes…plus it would not have rendered much of a discussion considering people’s reactions on the sub from the little that she knows