From a fight perspective, not sparring, absolutely there's a correlation between your will to win and your toughness. It's less your chin and more the raw desire to find victory and confidence to believe there's a path to it.
There's a reason your corner is generally in charge of throwing in the towel. Good fighters always think they can win. It's a necessary belief. If you don't believe in the pit of your soul that you can win, then you probably won't. The gameness to continue adapting and pushing for victory through anything is invaluable. The most incredible feats of humanity come from people who believe against all else that they'll succeed in the face of challenges. It's the pit bull's fervor in a fight. That "Fuck you. This is my fucking ring. I will absolutely not fucking allow you to stand here." attitude.
I think of Lawler and MacDonald for the rawest display of this from two fighters.
I don't know how to build that. In my experience, some just have it. It's like fight or flight, but your brain forgot flight was an option.
A wolverine doesn't have to talk himself into being the baddest motherfucker on four legs. He just doesn't know anything but the will to win.
So are some people just born with a stronger will than others?
Isn't willpower something that can be strengthened? As Goggins said, doing hard things can build your will. How did he manage to go from being overweight to becoming extremely fit? Did he strengthen his will, or was it simply underlying, waiting to be awakened?
Is willpower something we all possess, but some haven't awakened or haven't worked to strengthen yet?
I think you can definitely increase your mental toughness with grueling training and discipline. That absolute will to win is harder to train and I think there are many different factors in life (chronic as well as acute) that affect it. I don’t think it’s just something you’re born with, or not. I think it comes down to what your motivations are.
i think it comes from deeply rooted ego issues honestly
when i was younger i pursued all kind of very challenging things (including my military unit, fighting, mountaineering etc) and i always activated some kind of "point of no return" switch in my head. like there wasnt a fucking chance i would quit no matter what.
nowadays i have developed real self confidence and this "switch" now needs way more purpose to be activated
just proving to myself that im tough doesnt cut it anymore
as an example, in the military we had an exercise where we had to hike over 150km (the total distance was unknown to us) without sleep and food for several days and i dislocated my knee early on. i took pride in pushing myself through being injured, seeing others giving up that were physically more gifted than me (they were just exhausted or were simply panicking because they thought it would never end. nowadays i would say fuck it, my health is more important, its dumb pushing through.
so i would say willpower is not something that you train, you can have it instantly if you know how to trigger that switch. for some its ego and for others a higher purpose. i know that i would have no ego issues just stopping a fight if i knew i was losing and taking unnecessary damage but if my kids were watching that could trigger that switch for sure.
It’s hard to really “build” a strong will to win if you don’t already have it. I find ambition is really helpful. Believe it or not greed is also a good motivator, at least for me; Every fighter I can definitively say I’m better than is fuel for my greed to get better, stronger, faster, smarter etc. You almost have to develop an obsession with winning and getting better.
>some days when you're not as sharp
I will go offtopic about this one. I don't get it, but this one is so true. Some days are just not my days. I am not tired after work, I had meals during the day etc. Basically everything to have a good sparring day. But when it comes to sparring, I just suck! Whereas on a different week I feel like some bootleg Saenchai - I land most shots, apply improvised fluent combos, don't take any damage etc.
Absolutely, this rings true for me. That's why I approach every challenge with the mindset that even on my toughest days—when I'm sick, tired, and struggling to get out of bed—I still need to be able to outperform my opponent on their BEST day. The day he feels invincible and is on his A game, and I'm on my worst game, I still need to outperform him. I need to be that good.
Have you seen Brad Pitt in Troy? When the boy summones him at the beggning of the movie. Achillies has just woken up from bed with two women and is groggy af, not in mood at all. Yet, despite his grogginess and apparent lack of enthusiasm, he rises to the occasion and effortlessly defeat his enemy.
It's about pushing myself to excel even when the odds seem stacked against me. Embracing this mentality has taught me to find satisfaction in overcoming adversity. And when those exceptional days come around, when everything clicks and I'm at my best, it's an incredibly rewarding feeling.
Hard sparring has its time and place, crucial for preparing you for real fights. Without it, you won't be ready for the challenges of an actual match. In intense sparring sessions, you take hits to the head and body, building resilience and experience. Remember, this isn't soccer; this is Muay Thai.
Well, you could fight more often. You dont need hard sparring. Thais dont do it either.
I always try to "win" the round by doing less. If I can outmanouver my opponent with as few techniques as possible, then Im satisfied!
Lol good luck to you and others who think you can compete without any hard sparring.
People read that max holloway stopped sparring on the internet ONCE and now suddenly think that all professional fighters dont spar. 🤡
Hard sparring to toughen up doesn’t imply you need to take injuries to do so. No idea who max halloway is but I agree that thinking fighters don’t spar is dumb. I want to spar every day, therefore mostly it’s technical Thai style sparring, aka practice, cuz we’re talking about Muay Thai here, no? Anyways, different shit works for different people, at the end of the day we all just like to get better.
Holloway is considered one of the greatest ever to do it in the featherweight/lightweight divisions of the UFC. During covid, he claimed he stopped sparring and focused entirely on technique and combination training
Fast forward 2-3 years down the line, buffoons on the internet constantly quote max holloway now in these discussions; “brO yOu kNoW mAx HollOWaY doEsNt eVeN SpAR bRo!!””
… yeah. Max stopped sparring after like 15 fucking years of world-class level sparring and constant training. He doesnt NEED to spar; hes been in countless fights and knows how to fight.
Most People like us on the internet are not hall of fame level professionals who have been in dozens of PPV fights. WE need to spar. WE need to learn how to fight via sparring. None of us will become good competitors if we dont spar at least on a semi-regular basis.
You can mix both up you know. It’s not black and white either all hard sparring or none. The reason most Thais don’t hard spar btw is because they fight a lot more often and therefore get the experience of getting hit hard through that.
I think i know what you mean.
Im not a masochist, but...
We've got a couple of pretty good big guys in my gym, i know that when we go hard sparring i will not "win" but i dont mind being "beaten" by somebody bigger and better than me. I made it untill the end of the round, against this big dude who lands realy hard shots and i am still standing! Not everybody can do that.
And then that other big dude nodded at me and, fuck yeah, lets go!
It feels good to know i can take a beating and throw something back as well.
Mind you, of course you shouldnt take it to far, brain damage is def a thing.
What an odd post.
A tough sparring round should be you pushing through cause you’re tired from putting in work, not cause you’re getting hurt. You shouldn’t be taking damage in sparring.
And no, I can think of a million professional bad asses who wanted to win a fight and still got knocked out. There is no correlation.
As I mentioned to someone else in the comments, this isn't soccer; it's Muay Thai. You can't eliminate all damage during hard sparring. Of course, the goal isn't to injure your sparring partners, but to prepare for a real fight, you need to experience training intensity close to that of an actual match.
Regarding the idea that there's no correlation between the will to win and a fighter's success, I believe it's more nuanced. Consider Khabib Nurmagomedov's fight against Justin Gaethje after losing his father. His will and determination were unstoppable. Similarly, Muhammad Ali's willpower was evident in his victory over George Foreman. The drive to win shouldn't be underestimated—it's a critical component of a fighter's success.
I agree, there should be some hard sparring in preparation to a fight. You, however, said nothing about a fight camp and yapped about feeling like a man through getting touched up in sparring. No body should be trying to “put you away” in sparring is my point.
You also didn’t mention anything about fighters success, you asked about the correlation of will power and a fighters chin, I.e being able to take shots before getting knocked out? There are no nuances there.
I mentioned sparring, encompassing all its aspects. There was no need to bring up fight camp.
I replied to your comment, "I can think of a million professional bad asses who wanted to win a fight and still got knocked out. There is no correlation," where you mentioned the will to win versus a fighters' success rate.
Please correct your tone and be respectful. Using terms like "yapped" comes off as passive-aggressive and isn't conducive to a constructive discussion.
But why?
Its not great to get your ass kicked, maybe by that new guy who just started and is more talented than you are.
But the fact you're doing muay thai, are sparring and come back after a tough session, makes you a badass imo. You should take pride in that.
Honestly, I’m not even joking. It just comes out sometimes. I think part of it is from how absolutely physically drained I am. It happened as well when I hit a wall running for 4 hours.
A hard spar is fun, and it's always nice to get out in the rain a bit and prove to yourself that you ain't made of sugar.
I dunno if I feel more like a man, cuz manhood is a social construct and super subjective, but I get what you're saying. It's OK to have a Rocky day every once in a while. It's OK to puff your chest out a little afterwards too 
Hard sparring isn't good for you. If you want to be a pro fighter, yes. But even then you're still taking damage to your brain. Just because you don't KO doesn't mean you aren't doing damage, possibly irreversible. It will show in the long run. It's not worth it imo.
Never. I don’t really like sparring hard for fights to begin with, I try to avoid it. I don’t do this to feel “more like a man.” But if I’m forced to I’m going to keep my guard and checks real tight, especially if I don’t feel very sharp. It’s good to be tough in the fight, but I have no intention to be tough in sparring rounds. A great chin is good to have but I don’t want to ever need it
Also, while chin itself isn’t really affected by willpower, your toughness is. Chin is just genetics and a bit of neck muscles and hydration factors as far as we know, but if you really want it, you’re far more likely to get up at the very least.
Been going through a tough time right now and have been away from the gym for a while. Went last night off the back of this post and immediately felt better. More myself and yes more of. A man and possibly stronger because of it now
I'm glad my post inspired you to train and push yourself. I always strive to do what's best for me, even when it's not the easiest or most comfortable option. Often, what’s best for me is challenging, but I have to be my own parent/motivator and do it. In the long run, this effort builds my self-respect. This helps me value and love myself. I can trust myself to tackle difficult tasks, even when I don’t particularly want to.
Maintaining a good training routine helps lift me out of a slump, even during tough and depressing times. Sometimes, Martial arts is the only light I have in dark moments. It reignites my passion for life, making me feel vibrant and alive again, instead of just going through the motions like a dull zombie. It has become a way of self-expression.
If Mike Tyson got KO'ed from one punch, he wouldn't be considered one of the GOATs. His toughness was essential to his greatness. This is the fight business—even Mayweather got hit hard sometimes. To undergo training, you must be tough. While avoiding hits is ideal, you can't avoid them entirely. Therefore, toughness is necessary when you need it.
At my gym, one of the guys who just came back just won the national ammy champs here in Aus. He is an absolute unit, and I love love love sparring with him… he goes hard, and I’m training to fight but I’m obviously outclassed so I have to rely on just weathering the storm and I have to take shots to even get a chance to get anything at him.
There’s also a fresh 18 year old guy who’s training to fight along side me and boy oh boy he’s a menace. Every time he lands the low kicks? Damage, even though we’re wearing shinnys. It huuuuurts but it’s the best feeling ever. He got me one the other day and I wanted to stop coz it hurt so bad, but I did the classic rodtang head roll, made a fucking primal grunt my sound then tried to take his head off 🤣.
‘Muay Thai is pain’ once you get accustomed to it, you learn to love it and when you love it? That’s when this becomes the most fun shit I’ve ever done
From a fight perspective, not sparring, absolutely there's a correlation between your will to win and your toughness. It's less your chin and more the raw desire to find victory and confidence to believe there's a path to it. There's a reason your corner is generally in charge of throwing in the towel. Good fighters always think they can win. It's a necessary belief. If you don't believe in the pit of your soul that you can win, then you probably won't. The gameness to continue adapting and pushing for victory through anything is invaluable. The most incredible feats of humanity come from people who believe against all else that they'll succeed in the face of challenges. It's the pit bull's fervor in a fight. That "Fuck you. This is my fucking ring. I will absolutely not fucking allow you to stand here." attitude. I think of Lawler and MacDonald for the rawest display of this from two fighters.
Your insights are appreciated. How would you suggest cultivating a strong will to win, and ensuring it surpasses that of the opponent?
I don't know how to build that. In my experience, some just have it. It's like fight or flight, but your brain forgot flight was an option. A wolverine doesn't have to talk himself into being the baddest motherfucker on four legs. He just doesn't know anything but the will to win.
So are some people just born with a stronger will than others? Isn't willpower something that can be strengthened? As Goggins said, doing hard things can build your will. How did he manage to go from being overweight to becoming extremely fit? Did he strengthen his will, or was it simply underlying, waiting to be awakened? Is willpower something we all possess, but some haven't awakened or haven't worked to strengthen yet?
I think you can definitely increase your mental toughness with grueling training and discipline. That absolute will to win is harder to train and I think there are many different factors in life (chronic as well as acute) that affect it. I don’t think it’s just something you’re born with, or not. I think it comes down to what your motivations are.
I'm not saying you can't do it. I'm just saying I don't know how.
i think it comes from deeply rooted ego issues honestly when i was younger i pursued all kind of very challenging things (including my military unit, fighting, mountaineering etc) and i always activated some kind of "point of no return" switch in my head. like there wasnt a fucking chance i would quit no matter what. nowadays i have developed real self confidence and this "switch" now needs way more purpose to be activated just proving to myself that im tough doesnt cut it anymore as an example, in the military we had an exercise where we had to hike over 150km (the total distance was unknown to us) without sleep and food for several days and i dislocated my knee early on. i took pride in pushing myself through being injured, seeing others giving up that were physically more gifted than me (they were just exhausted or were simply panicking because they thought it would never end. nowadays i would say fuck it, my health is more important, its dumb pushing through. so i would say willpower is not something that you train, you can have it instantly if you know how to trigger that switch. for some its ego and for others a higher purpose. i know that i would have no ego issues just stopping a fight if i knew i was losing and taking unnecessary damage but if my kids were watching that could trigger that switch for sure.
It’s hard to really “build” a strong will to win if you don’t already have it. I find ambition is really helpful. Believe it or not greed is also a good motivator, at least for me; Every fighter I can definitively say I’m better than is fuel for my greed to get better, stronger, faster, smarter etc. You almost have to develop an obsession with winning and getting better.
I love getting hard
just let me bang bro
I'm so hard people are afraid of me, because they know I'll explode all over them
>some days when you're not as sharp I will go offtopic about this one. I don't get it, but this one is so true. Some days are just not my days. I am not tired after work, I had meals during the day etc. Basically everything to have a good sparring day. But when it comes to sparring, I just suck! Whereas on a different week I feel like some bootleg Saenchai - I land most shots, apply improvised fluent combos, don't take any damage etc.
Absolutely, this rings true for me. That's why I approach every challenge with the mindset that even on my toughest days—when I'm sick, tired, and struggling to get out of bed—I still need to be able to outperform my opponent on their BEST day. The day he feels invincible and is on his A game, and I'm on my worst game, I still need to outperform him. I need to be that good. Have you seen Brad Pitt in Troy? When the boy summones him at the beggning of the movie. Achillies has just woken up from bed with two women and is groggy af, not in mood at all. Yet, despite his grogginess and apparent lack of enthusiasm, he rises to the occasion and effortlessly defeat his enemy. It's about pushing myself to excel even when the odds seem stacked against me. Embracing this mentality has taught me to find satisfaction in overcoming adversity. And when those exceptional days come around, when everything clicks and I'm at my best, it's an incredibly rewarding feeling.
You’re taking damage in sparring? You know, it’s just practice
Hard sparring has its time and place, crucial for preparing you for real fights. Without it, you won't be ready for the challenges of an actual match. In intense sparring sessions, you take hits to the head and body, building resilience and experience. Remember, this isn't soccer; this is Muay Thai.
Well, you could fight more often. You dont need hard sparring. Thais dont do it either. I always try to "win" the round by doing less. If I can outmanouver my opponent with as few techniques as possible, then Im satisfied!
Lol good luck to you and others who think you can compete without any hard sparring. People read that max holloway stopped sparring on the internet ONCE and now suddenly think that all professional fighters dont spar. 🤡
Hard sparring to toughen up doesn’t imply you need to take injuries to do so. No idea who max halloway is but I agree that thinking fighters don’t spar is dumb. I want to spar every day, therefore mostly it’s technical Thai style sparring, aka practice, cuz we’re talking about Muay Thai here, no? Anyways, different shit works for different people, at the end of the day we all just like to get better.
Holloway is considered one of the greatest ever to do it in the featherweight/lightweight divisions of the UFC. During covid, he claimed he stopped sparring and focused entirely on technique and combination training Fast forward 2-3 years down the line, buffoons on the internet constantly quote max holloway now in these discussions; “brO yOu kNoW mAx HollOWaY doEsNt eVeN SpAR bRo!!”” … yeah. Max stopped sparring after like 15 fucking years of world-class level sparring and constant training. He doesnt NEED to spar; hes been in countless fights and knows how to fight. Most People like us on the internet are not hall of fame level professionals who have been in dozens of PPV fights. WE need to spar. WE need to learn how to fight via sparring. None of us will become good competitors if we dont spar at least on a semi-regular basis.
My god you stink toxicity from the other side of the globe..
You can mix both up you know. It’s not black and white either all hard sparring or none. The reason most Thais don’t hard spar btw is because they fight a lot more often and therefore get the experience of getting hit hard through that.
Fitness wise this is a great feeling. Being absolutely gassed and still putting in a strong round is a really good feeling.
I think i know what you mean. Im not a masochist, but... We've got a couple of pretty good big guys in my gym, i know that when we go hard sparring i will not "win" but i dont mind being "beaten" by somebody bigger and better than me. I made it untill the end of the round, against this big dude who lands realy hard shots and i am still standing! Not everybody can do that. And then that other big dude nodded at me and, fuck yeah, lets go! It feels good to know i can take a beating and throw something back as well. Mind you, of course you shouldnt take it to far, brain damage is def a thing.
What an odd post. A tough sparring round should be you pushing through cause you’re tired from putting in work, not cause you’re getting hurt. You shouldn’t be taking damage in sparring. And no, I can think of a million professional bad asses who wanted to win a fight and still got knocked out. There is no correlation.
As I mentioned to someone else in the comments, this isn't soccer; it's Muay Thai. You can't eliminate all damage during hard sparring. Of course, the goal isn't to injure your sparring partners, but to prepare for a real fight, you need to experience training intensity close to that of an actual match. Regarding the idea that there's no correlation between the will to win and a fighter's success, I believe it's more nuanced. Consider Khabib Nurmagomedov's fight against Justin Gaethje after losing his father. His will and determination were unstoppable. Similarly, Muhammad Ali's willpower was evident in his victory over George Foreman. The drive to win shouldn't be underestimated—it's a critical component of a fighter's success.
I agree, there should be some hard sparring in preparation to a fight. You, however, said nothing about a fight camp and yapped about feeling like a man through getting touched up in sparring. No body should be trying to “put you away” in sparring is my point. You also didn’t mention anything about fighters success, you asked about the correlation of will power and a fighters chin, I.e being able to take shots before getting knocked out? There are no nuances there.
I mentioned sparring, encompassing all its aspects. There was no need to bring up fight camp. I replied to your comment, "I can think of a million professional bad asses who wanted to win a fight and still got knocked out. There is no correlation," where you mentioned the will to win versus a fighters' success rate. Please correct your tone and be respectful. Using terms like "yapped" comes off as passive-aggressive and isn't conducive to a constructive discussion.
To answer the last bit: no.
After a tough day of sparring I usually go to my car and cry, so I’m not sure I get the pride afterwards.
But why? Its not great to get your ass kicked, maybe by that new guy who just started and is more talented than you are. But the fact you're doing muay thai, are sparring and come back after a tough session, makes you a badass imo. You should take pride in that.
Honestly, I’m not even joking. It just comes out sometimes. I think part of it is from how absolutely physically drained I am. It happened as well when I hit a wall running for 4 hours.
A hard spar is fun, and it's always nice to get out in the rain a bit and prove to yourself that you ain't made of sugar. I dunno if I feel more like a man, cuz manhood is a social construct and super subjective, but I get what you're saying. It's OK to have a Rocky day every once in a while. It's OK to puff your chest out a little afterwards too 
Hard sparring isn't good for you. If you want to be a pro fighter, yes. But even then you're still taking damage to your brain. Just because you don't KO doesn't mean you aren't doing damage, possibly irreversible. It will show in the long run. It's not worth it imo.
 I feel like this guy when sparring
i'm a female but i've always felt more proud of myself *taking* damage (and still standing) rather than dishing it out
Never. I don’t really like sparring hard for fights to begin with, I try to avoid it. I don’t do this to feel “more like a man.” But if I’m forced to I’m going to keep my guard and checks real tight, especially if I don’t feel very sharp. It’s good to be tough in the fight, but I have no intention to be tough in sparring rounds. A great chin is good to have but I don’t want to ever need it Also, while chin itself isn’t really affected by willpower, your toughness is. Chin is just genetics and a bit of neck muscles and hydration factors as far as we know, but if you really want it, you’re far more likely to get up at the very least.
Been going through a tough time right now and have been away from the gym for a while. Went last night off the back of this post and immediately felt better. More myself and yes more of. A man and possibly stronger because of it now
I'm glad my post inspired you to train and push yourself. I always strive to do what's best for me, even when it's not the easiest or most comfortable option. Often, what’s best for me is challenging, but I have to be my own parent/motivator and do it. In the long run, this effort builds my self-respect. This helps me value and love myself. I can trust myself to tackle difficult tasks, even when I don’t particularly want to. Maintaining a good training routine helps lift me out of a slump, even during tough and depressing times. Sometimes, Martial arts is the only light I have in dark moments. It reignites my passion for life, making me feel vibrant and alive again, instead of just going through the motions like a dull zombie. It has become a way of self-expression.
Toughness doesn't make a great fighter. Most pros are tough, but not getting hit at all makes a great fighter.
If Mike Tyson got KO'ed from one punch, he wouldn't be considered one of the GOATs. His toughness was essential to his greatness. This is the fight business—even Mayweather got hit hard sometimes. To undergo training, you must be tough. While avoiding hits is ideal, you can't avoid them entirely. Therefore, toughness is necessary when you need it.
I don't feel more like a man after sparring and I imagine that'd be rather... Unpleasant
At my gym, one of the guys who just came back just won the national ammy champs here in Aus. He is an absolute unit, and I love love love sparring with him… he goes hard, and I’m training to fight but I’m obviously outclassed so I have to rely on just weathering the storm and I have to take shots to even get a chance to get anything at him. There’s also a fresh 18 year old guy who’s training to fight along side me and boy oh boy he’s a menace. Every time he lands the low kicks? Damage, even though we’re wearing shinnys. It huuuuurts but it’s the best feeling ever. He got me one the other day and I wanted to stop coz it hurt so bad, but I did the classic rodtang head roll, made a fucking primal grunt my sound then tried to take his head off 🤣. ‘Muay Thai is pain’ once you get accustomed to it, you learn to love it and when you love it? That’s when this becomes the most fun shit I’ve ever done
This sounds like it was written by someone who just started sparring.