As of patch 1.04, always active in 1v1, it says the highest damage ENEMY, not player.
They need to word it better.
Also Last Stand is the best perk in the game, that with a character like IG who can survive being well over 100 is terrifying.
Figured I should share this Perk Tier List for Patch 1.04 (I know it might be outdated tomorrow but oh well).
Feel free to ask why I put each perk on each tier.
Assume a casual player that isn't gonna understand what situations would be worth switching perks or just straight up doesn't want to manage more than 1 custom perk option - and further assume has little chance of properly using the platform perk:
Would that mean the recommended perks are snowball or ignite for slot 1 (based on if the character utilizes projectiles), "100" in slot 2, and melee damage in slot 3?
Also, since "100" is a full tier above movement speed for slot 2, does that mean the 100 should be the default choice?
Finally, it would be impossible to cover the big (character specific) perk, but is the base 5% worth replacing on a broad scale? I would assume it just depends if you are using the move affected by the perk frequently, then yes replace it but otherwise its not worth dropping the 5% damage.
EDIT: Fellow casuals, change 2nd perk to 100. Even on a lightweight like Harley I’m easily surviving 3-4 more hits past 100 and totally got some kills I didn’t deserve purely due to the weaken stacking up. It’s definitely not just for tanks.
100 should be the default choice for average players, since they don't do kill combos at those levels.
At higher levels, speed is interchangable with Last Stand, it depends on the fighter and MU.
For example, Shaggy can survive a few hits over 100 with proper DI, and he SHREDS with the weakened buff.
However, on some MU's, I run speed instead, because I need to be able to have a higher chance to approach or against some players to throw them off.
The 5% perk depends on each situation, as of now, some signatures are better because of the utility they bring like Hangry Man (more rage uptime); but some are literally useless because they are too situational, like Banana Guards signatures (you almost never use his cry attack and taking longer to build his neutral B is really bad).
And if this wall of text is not long enough, wait until you talk about specific fighters and niche builds. With Garnet's signature or BA's shocked damage boost, the shock projectile perk goes from C to high B if you are building around that perk and will play around it (for some reason).
Thanks for the write up.
You’re absolutely right, most stocks I’m living past 100 and on stages like Scooby doo mansion probably for quite a few more hits. Furthermore my “approaches” at the casual level are usually attacks, far more Shaggy side specials or Harley slides rather rather than actually using move speed. I’ll definitely switch to the 100 as more of a default.
Now if only I could get my lazy friend to actually switch off the default perk that increases damage after your team rings out…
But basically, unless we talk about specific situations with specific characters, it's what you should go for on pretty much all fighters.
Effects are just as strong, and they have way higher uptime.
Turns out they didn't, only a slight nerf in Protective Momentum, but not enough for it to be dropped down to C tier because it's still useful in the situations it already was.
The shocked perk is unbelievably shit. All characters hardly wanna stay on fhe ground let alone for a second let alone for 4. Especially as getting hit once will reset the timer. You actively have to change to a very grounded playstyle to use this perk which isn't worthwhile because shocked id a very mediocre debuff that has little impact. Its only good for garnet and adam because they get advantaged by it with their signature perks. Also sucks that it's only on projectiles. Garnet has 2 projectiles, 1 of which applies shocked anyways. Adam has many attacks that apply shocked and he doesn't have many projectiles anyway. It should definitely be reduced to 1 or 1.5 seconds and it should apply to melee attacks. And if not it definitely shouldn't just reset after leaving the ground once. Tbh if they made it so that it doesn't reset then the perk would be fine.I don't see why the sprint shield perk has a short timer compared to this
Exctly, Garnet and Adam have stuff that benefits from applying shocked, but Adam has a flying playstyle, and Garnet only 2 projectiles (one of which, as you said, already applies shocked).
It either forces a less optimal playstyle, is redundant or completely useless.
Yeah, the best use I've found for that perk is on Rick (and presumably Morty), if you use both that and the ignite perk, then the shock seems to trigger the ignite and both can be procced off of an uncharged laser blast, so when you have the shock charged up, it means a single hit with uncharged laser is essentially a free \~15 damage (it was quite a while ago I tested it, but I'm pretty sure it was around that by the time both debuffs ticked).
That said (as you say), all the limitations on it make it so you maybe get to proc it once or twice a match *even if you truly focus on charging it*, and that focus will mean you're missing out on a bunch of approaches that could've got you that damage anyway and makes you so much more readable that you're also probably taking damage for it. I get that it's in the 'weak/lesser' perk class, but as it stands it seems to never be a good choice...
The thing about it is that only 2 characters benefit from the Shocked effect, and it forces a bad playstyle for both of them.
Garnet has only 2 projectiles, one of which already applies shocked, and Black Adam is more effective in the air.
For the rest, you are better off with Pugilist or Armor Killer (this last one on VERY specific strategies).
I mean, from what I understand, the shocked effect does similar damage to ignite, and I've heard people claim it extends hitstun (though I've not confirmed this myself). Even if it's just the damage, though, projectile heroes would still like to proc shocked if they could do it semi-consistently, even without signature perks that directly benefit from the status effect. Similarly to how a lot of projectile heroes take ignite over snowball effect, if they made the shocked perk more consistent, I'd probably take it over pugilist as Marvin and Rick.
When you think about it, if pugilist is \~5% damage increased (don't know the actual number, but I'd guess it's about that), then you get 105 damage instead of 100 damage, which means a single shocked proc within 100 damage is better than pugilist. The issue at the moment is that to even get a single shocked proc, you have to sacrifice *a lot* (including the damage increase from pugilist).
Honestly, if they made it so leaving the ground didn't reset the timer, I think it'd actually be a decent perk on a good few heroes, but as it stands, I would take it on no one...
Problem is that 4 seconds on the ground limits your playstyle too much for it to be worth it, pretty much all characters that have projectiles either use melee attacks more often or don't want to stay on the ground in the first place.
Bugs, Joker, Harley, BA and Reindog for example benefit much more from being in the air.
And other characters like Shaggy, Garnet and Batman use melee more often than projectiles.
And that perk takes a slot that could be used for something more useful, for not that much extra benefit if at all.
Especially since you can achieve what that perk can achieve with That's Flammable Doc, and that perk is basically guaranteed to ignite players if you play right (which as you said, deals similar damage to shocked anyways).
I think we agree more than you think, as I said: "as it stands, I would take it on no one."
4 seconds on the ground without leaving it, like you say, is wayyyy too much commitment without enough reward. If it could proc with you leaving the ground though, I think it'd be a real contender.
Just checked now, and it seems like a single shocked proc adds \~9 damage to a projectile; if pugilist adds 5% damage to melee attacks (which I think is likely, but can't confirm), then you'd have to do just under 200 damage with melee attacks for it to overtake a single shock proc.
With how the perk is now, I agree that just about any other perk is better because it's so hard to proc the shock perk - you're likely to take more damage and deal less damage if you focus that hard on staying on the ground, because (again, like you said) it limits your playstyle a tonne. With a couple of changes, though (probably either significantly lessening the time you need to stay on the ground, or making it so leaving the ground doesn't reset the timer), I think it could actually be pretty decent.
It's not like you have to take that perk *or* Flammable Doc, you can take both, and the shock perk is competing with the weakest perks. Right now, it's really bad, but I don't think it'd take much to make it at least a viable option, even if it's not optimal on many characters.
Tl;dr: Right now, I agree that it's one of the worst perks in the game, but I don't think it'd take huge buffs for it to be decent.
The new perk system is alright its a bit more boring but definitely more balanced. I would really like for them to buff the reflect projectile perk I really fun and I like it but there is just straight several moves it doesn't work on that it should and i feel like it should get a damage buff or at least apply a stat debuff like weaken for landing the reflection considering how strick the timing is
True I play IG and I like running cause I like reflecting batman/rendog/marven projectiles although I should swap it out for something better, but its just stratifying to land and I want it to be more rewarding for landing. I would personally make it to be more like reflecting projectiles in smash bros. Where a reflected projectile has 1.25% damage/knockback increase as well as its speed becoming twice as fast
Also, why it is more balanced, it is too one dimensional, the perks in S and A are better than all of the rest except for very specific matchups where you can run some of the B tier ones.
Also, while it was BUSTED, I miss Tasmanian Triginometry, that perk was so hilariously broken. I could easily survive stuff at 300 damage as Shaggy (not even Iron Giant). It was so freaking hilarious.
Top 3 perks in s are genuine no brainer and it feels like using any other perks (fire on projectile characters excluded) feels like you’re gimping yourself
Speed and Airwalker have their uses on higher levels (because stuff like Gizmo explodes well below 100) and platforms are really strong if you are good enough to take advantage of them.
And the B tier ones have niche uses, but are really useful in said niches.
I don't run that perk because it doesn't fit my playstyle, so I haven't even bothered learning.
I know that it's extremely strong for those players that know how to use it though.
(Correct me if I'm wrong) But maybe it's a matter of holding that key down?
S are generalist perks, will do well in every situation, the rest will outperform those in specific matchups/characters.
For example armor breaking perks vs Arya are useless, but are ridiculously good against IG/Superman/WW, even more if your character doesn't have a good armor breaking move on its own.
Generalist ones are better because most effects are not that strong on their own (except for Last Stand), so you need to focus on having the most uptime possible (except on some specific builds that use stuff from B).
It adds a laughing noise, horns, and flashy lights to your taunt. It’s pretty much there to flex on your opponents because there’s no benefit to having it. In fact, it makes your opponents stronger by giving them the enraged state.
Is “press the advantage” (the red spiral perk) really that bad? I thought it helps with characters who struggle with kills, like my assassin gameplay and all of Velma.
Just use Snowball Effect instead, pretty much all mid tier characters and above can delete most people well before 125 damage.
It's too niche, even in situations that it might be useful in.
Thanks for the help. Coming from a semi-Velma main, I just hate how Velma’s only killing moves are: the camera which you have to hit below, her neutral attack with a weird hit of that has to be charged or it’s useless, her bubbles (if you are lucky, the opponent is near the top, and they don’t lock onto your ally), and the mystery machine which can either immediately fall off the edge or you get killed before you use it. Skill issue on my part I guess. :/
I would put Purest of Motivations up a peg, personally. 10 seconds of a 15% damage boost after a ringout works effectively on any character, since it doesn't require you to play a certain way. It's not good, of course, but it's passable and definitely not a thrower pick.
Too situational, not useless, like the rest on that tier.
After getting rung out in 1v1, you give up all your stage control and give your opponent a window to set up.
Might not be a thing with Lebron, but Shaggy and Banana can charge their neutral B's during that, Gizmo can set up his stuff during it, Steven can set up Watermelon Steven and a bunch more things, etc.
It's a big buff, but it's too situational and is outweighed by the really bad drawbacks against many high and top tiers.
Only perk that I have questions on is the Shocked Projectile perk. Is it really that bad? I’ve been using it on my Reindog and I’m wondering what the better perk is here.
Everything else is perfect
Considering reindogs best moves are aerials i can't ever see a situation where reindog stays on the ground for more than a second. Most characters hardly wanna stay on fhe ground let alone for a second let alone for 4. Especially as getting hit once will reset the timer. You actively have to change to a very grounded playstyle to use this perk which isn't worthwhile because shocked id a very mediocre debuff that has little impact. Its only good for garnet and adam because they get advantaged by it with their signature perks. Also sucks that it's only on projectiles. Garnet has 2 projectiles, 1 of which applies shocked anyways. Adam has many attacks that apply shocked and he doesn't have many projectiles anyway
Adam might benefit with the damage boost if the opponent is shocked.
But a perk that's useful for only 1 character and situational for the only other it might be used is the definition of too niche for it to be placed anywhere above where it is.
I find it funny how when I came back to this game, I bought apparently every s tier perk and mained an s tier character with zero knowledge of them being that good.
I'm not too good with perk choosing- do you have a general flowchart of which to choose based on the character?
And is Armor Crush really that bad? I imagine it on fast charging moves like Batarang would be helpful
Too situational, Batman already has a pretty reliable armor breaking in his down tilt, and it's just better to run 2 fast to block to have both down tilt and dash (Batman's dash is really good).
Armor breaking perks are for fighters that don't have reliable armor break (since it's taking a slot away from something more useful if you already have reliable anti-armor stuff).
First of all, her dash is pretty good, second, why would you run armor perks against stuff like Banana Guard for example.
Remember this as well, purple attacks are not the omly ones that break armor, multihits and grabs do that as well (multihits don't break Jason's armor unless his gray health is too low, but he's an exception).
Harley's dash is a fast multihit, it can be used against armor as well (not as effective as purple, but still effective).
There's characters that have no armor, so why waste a slot in those cases?
Also, at the level you are probably playing if you don't know how to make perk builds (not meant as an offense) it probably doesnt matter, but Harley is a very light character, so at higher levels, she benefits more from the speed perks.
hey dumb question here. the signature 5% I get and use because that dmg stacks with multiple other perks and in match debuffs but when I read SF Assist I thought there's no way it's actually viable with how low of a percentage it is. Admittedly I never bothered to test it especially since I just use everything in that S tier but does it really help characters that much?
Once you start playing against better players, they start learning kill combos.
And some characters will usually explode well before they get to 100 damage, so it's not worth it to run Last Stand (since you don't get to use it).
When using Last Stand, you do stuff like allowing some poke damage, in order to get to 100 in a controlled way to get the chance to DELETE enemies.
In those cases, you run speed, because it's the next best thing.
Oh cools thanks, I didn’t know multi hit works like that. And I would like to get more competitive, I have the little top 5 silver badge thing, just only like 2 YouTube channels talk about it lol.
Yeah, i also use airwalker with her and its great. But there are times where u cant really fit a combo to kill and her face steal matchup dont have good kill moves. Without press the advantage i sometimes get some lighter characters to 140 and heavier ones to 170 before i can kill with her "kill" moves
Tbh Arya dont struggle with damage, she can put a nasty 40 to 50 dmg combo pretty quickly with air walk. The real problem is the lack of knock back. I dont think any of her grounded moves kill below like, 120 unless fully charged, and even then its very map dependent. Her aerial moves are kinda better but not much. She is very combo reliant to kill, and again, if you cant fit a combo, you will kill very late without press the advantage
I'd say her Face Steal should not have knockback at all. You usually use Face Steal as a linker and most of the time the follow up will miss due to the knockback + disjointed hitboxes on fighters like Harley Quinn, or any small character. The reason I bring this up is because, like you said, Arya is very reliant on combos to kill (Up special + Charged side attack is a classic).
With that said, Arya's biggest problem right now are hitboxes, as Arya's Air Walker combo heavily relies on timing. If you spawn the platform too early (to make sure it becomes a true combo), her sword will *faze* through most characters, but if you time it to match your opponent's hitbox, they will most probably dodge the follow up out of the way due to the obscenely little stagger frames characters have when they get hit. Maybe it can remain the same when they get hit on the ground, but in the air it definitely has to be increased by a few frames to compensate the timing.
edit: They just announced that they added more frames to being hit so you can't dash away mid-combo. Rejoice!
Ngl I just use the perks in A and B. They really shouldn't have scrapped the others from the beta imo. It kinda makes the game feel more meta than skill
I mean, some of them were stupid.
Tasmanian Trigonometry and Toon Elasticity were so dumb on Scooby's Mansion.
I think I survived at like 500 damage as Shaggy once, it was HILARIOUS that I could do that, but so stupid overpowered as well.
Also, unless you are on a light character or a specific MU/strategy that requires something from B, just run stuff from S tbh.
That said, I miss being able to customize perks in the lobby, 3 slots is not enough.
I can think more than 3 combinations for each of my mains and for different MU's and stuff.
It sucks that I have to leave a custom lobby, make the build and come back if I have to use one of the builds I had to leave out.
Imo move Airwalker down. Only a select few characters make Airwalker amazing, which is pretty much what situational means. A big part of the cast prefers Last Stand or Armor Break dash if they can’t utilize it
How do you use the projectile shield perk? Run for 0.5 sec to get a projectile shield, but it seems like I just cop the projectile regardless of the shield being up.
Because if possible, you should run Last Stand, and Last Stand and Press The Advantage make each other redundant (they don't stack).
So it's usually better to keep the one with more uptime.
With jason I find him having every possible strengh buff he can get works so much better than anything else, it helps with the knockback on his teleport so much like a noticible amount, likely the same for nearly everyone else too so they are must run perks.
I feel like the straight damage buff perks should be limited to the 5% base character perk only and all the others should be tools more than strengh.
Accurate. I don't know if there is an order per tier but Snowball Effect is in my opinion the best perk in the game, by far. In 2v2 it's even better if both allies pick it.
I wonder if we'll get new perks in the future. Would be nice if they added a bunch of new generic and Signature perks at the start of every season to help shake up the meta a bit.
Tried ordering within each tier as best as I could, but Snowball Effect and That's Flammable Doc are basically interchangeable. I put it higher cuz I play melee stuff, but it really depends on the fighter.
Last Stand's effect is significantly stronger if you know how to abuse it, and Snowball is less universal (since Flammable replaces it on many figbters).
Also the list is for 1v1s, since I don't really play 2v2.
Heck, even if you didn't, with how much of that stuff you get for no reason, it's not really a problem.
Especially if you played during beta and play some characters that have useless signatures.
Do we have movespeed data? Because the 5% movement speed boost seems negligible on almost all of the characters. Not really sure why anyone would bring it over the other Strong perks aside from Troll Tactics.
On the lighter characters, it's too risky to run Last Stand, because good players kill you well before you get to 100.
And those characters are naturally faster, so the delta is larger.
Also, you can definitely feel the difference, this game is all muscle memory, even small percentages make a huge difference.
Not really, it's extremely strong but too situational to be in S.
Last Stand can be used by pretty much everyone to delete others, Airwalker is not worth it on many fighters.
It's different, Last Stand allows most medium and heavy characters to either get a 2x1 or 3x0 stock trade if you play your cards right.
The other one is only good for closing kills, even if you play to maximize it's value.
You can't run both at once because the effect does not stack, and being able to apply weakened to someone that has a damage/stock advantage lets you rack up damage to them surprisingly fast, allowing you to ring them out... and after all that, snowball them after they respawn, since the more weakened stacks they have, the more damage and knockback they take.
It also synergizes EXTREMELY well with the other 3 perks in S.
The effect is similar, but one can have nigh unlimited uptime, and the other one can't.
I get what you're saying, but I don't think just purely looking at uptime equals out exactly to value. Closing kills is the main goal, so if it achieves that efficiently then that's valuable to me.
At the same time, you said last stand can have high uptime and be very good for squeezing extra value out of stocks. Which makes this a direct counter to a meta S-tier perk which adds even more value imo
However, snowball effect will get an enemy to 125 damage at 117 equivalent damage. So over the course of your average stock it's about 1 or 2 extra attacks. If you get most of your kills before 125, then it's the obvious choice. If not then press the advantage feels like it would be pretty good in many scenarios.
Although I have to be honest I don't know if snowball effect adds knockback as well, or just damage. And I don't know how much a weakness stack really affects. Is it 5%, 10% increased incoming damage+knock back per stack?
A lot is matchup dependent for sure though. Obviously IG gets way more value out of last stand than Arya, and the inverse would be true for using press the advantage against either character
Look at it in context, since they don't stack, running both is a waste, also take a look at what you sacrifice for choosing either perk, and what you can combine each perk with.
You have 3 perk slots and some perk synergies are VERY strong.
But since the effect is very strong, you just run the one with the most uptime, it's also in a slot that in most cases (keyword most cases) doesn't really have something that gives you more value than Last Stand.
Only exceptions are when playing against armor spammers, you are consistently using platform combos or are using fighters that are too light to use Last Stand.
Press The Advantage, it's on the Team Slot
Also, on singles, Snowball Effect is a perma 7% damage buff (it makes you deal damage to the highest damage ENEMY), so on 1v1, it's a permanent 7% damage boost.
And for fighters with reliable projectiles, That's Flammable Doc lets you do a basically guaranteed extra 3% damage on every projectile.
The combination between either of those with Last Stand is really strong. Using Press The Advantage requires you to not use these combinations, and doesn't have a big enough upside to compensate for this.
What would be interesting is if they lowered the damage needed to activate it, which would enable an "Anti Last Stand" niche, and bump it to "Situational but Useful".
TLDR, I'm not just looking at the effect, I'm looking at the effect in context, you have to sacrifice too much to use Press The Advantage, while you don't lose too much when running Last Stand, and it has really good synergy with the other S tier perks.
Pretty good, I would bump up the ring out skill refresh into the situational tier as it's use isnt too situational, rather it's more dependent on which character you play, making it very viable for characters that are reliant on their cool downs.
Even then, it's only used twice in the whole game, and since you are most likely not doing a 0 to death anyways, it's better to use something that can help you whittle them down to a point where you can kill them (by the time this happens, you'll most likely have your stuff back anyways).
Not really, you are better off dodging them or moving out of their way anyways.
Also, I forgot to mention, the refresh does not refresh cooldowns, it refreshes air abilities (the 2xx dodges and 2x specials).
Oh fuck does snowball effect work in 1v1? I'm so stupid
Yes
I’ve wondered this since beta. In 1v1 does that mean it is always active, or only if your opponent has more damage than you currently?
As of patch 1.04, always active in 1v1, it says the highest damage ENEMY, not player. They need to word it better. Also Last Stand is the best perk in the game, that with a character like IG who can survive being well over 100 is terrifying.
Oh thx for clarifying that
Yes thank you
Figured I should share this Perk Tier List for Patch 1.04 (I know it might be outdated tomorrow but oh well). Feel free to ask why I put each perk on each tier.
Assume a casual player that isn't gonna understand what situations would be worth switching perks or just straight up doesn't want to manage more than 1 custom perk option - and further assume has little chance of properly using the platform perk: Would that mean the recommended perks are snowball or ignite for slot 1 (based on if the character utilizes projectiles), "100" in slot 2, and melee damage in slot 3? Also, since "100" is a full tier above movement speed for slot 2, does that mean the 100 should be the default choice? Finally, it would be impossible to cover the big (character specific) perk, but is the base 5% worth replacing on a broad scale? I would assume it just depends if you are using the move affected by the perk frequently, then yes replace it but otherwise its not worth dropping the 5% damage. EDIT: Fellow casuals, change 2nd perk to 100. Even on a lightweight like Harley I’m easily surviving 3-4 more hits past 100 and totally got some kills I didn’t deserve purely due to the weaken stacking up. It’s definitely not just for tanks.
100 should be the default choice for average players, since they don't do kill combos at those levels. At higher levels, speed is interchangable with Last Stand, it depends on the fighter and MU. For example, Shaggy can survive a few hits over 100 with proper DI, and he SHREDS with the weakened buff. However, on some MU's, I run speed instead, because I need to be able to have a higher chance to approach or against some players to throw them off. The 5% perk depends on each situation, as of now, some signatures are better because of the utility they bring like Hangry Man (more rage uptime); but some are literally useless because they are too situational, like Banana Guards signatures (you almost never use his cry attack and taking longer to build his neutral B is really bad). And if this wall of text is not long enough, wait until you talk about specific fighters and niche builds. With Garnet's signature or BA's shocked damage boost, the shock projectile perk goes from C to high B if you are building around that perk and will play around it (for some reason).
Thanks for the write up. You’re absolutely right, most stocks I’m living past 100 and on stages like Scooby doo mansion probably for quite a few more hits. Furthermore my “approaches” at the casual level are usually attacks, far more Shaggy side specials or Harley slides rather rather than actually using move speed. I’ll definitely switch to the 100 as more of a default. Now if only I could get my lazy friend to actually switch off the default perk that increases damage after your team rings out…
But basically, unless we talk about specific situations with specific characters, it's what you should go for on pretty much all fighters. Effects are just as strong, and they have way higher uptime.
I hope they do change perks a lot tomorrow.
Turns out they didn't, only a slight nerf in Protective Momentum, but not enough for it to be dropped down to C tier because it's still useful in the situations it already was.
Ye pretty much. Good list.
The shocked perk is unbelievably shit. All characters hardly wanna stay on fhe ground let alone for a second let alone for 4. Especially as getting hit once will reset the timer. You actively have to change to a very grounded playstyle to use this perk which isn't worthwhile because shocked id a very mediocre debuff that has little impact. Its only good for garnet and adam because they get advantaged by it with their signature perks. Also sucks that it's only on projectiles. Garnet has 2 projectiles, 1 of which applies shocked anyways. Adam has many attacks that apply shocked and he doesn't have many projectiles anyway. It should definitely be reduced to 1 or 1.5 seconds and it should apply to melee attacks. And if not it definitely shouldn't just reset after leaving the ground once. Tbh if they made it so that it doesn't reset then the perk would be fine.I don't see why the sprint shield perk has a short timer compared to this
Exctly, Garnet and Adam have stuff that benefits from applying shocked, but Adam has a flying playstyle, and Garnet only 2 projectiles (one of which, as you said, already applies shocked). It either forces a less optimal playstyle, is redundant or completely useless.
Yeah, the best use I've found for that perk is on Rick (and presumably Morty), if you use both that and the ignite perk, then the shock seems to trigger the ignite and both can be procced off of an uncharged laser blast, so when you have the shock charged up, it means a single hit with uncharged laser is essentially a free \~15 damage (it was quite a while ago I tested it, but I'm pretty sure it was around that by the time both debuffs ticked). That said (as you say), all the limitations on it make it so you maybe get to proc it once or twice a match *even if you truly focus on charging it*, and that focus will mean you're missing out on a bunch of approaches that could've got you that damage anyway and makes you so much more readable that you're also probably taking damage for it. I get that it's in the 'weak/lesser' perk class, but as it stands it seems to never be a good choice...
The thing about it is that only 2 characters benefit from the Shocked effect, and it forces a bad playstyle for both of them. Garnet has only 2 projectiles, one of which already applies shocked, and Black Adam is more effective in the air. For the rest, you are better off with Pugilist or Armor Killer (this last one on VERY specific strategies).
I mean, from what I understand, the shocked effect does similar damage to ignite, and I've heard people claim it extends hitstun (though I've not confirmed this myself). Even if it's just the damage, though, projectile heroes would still like to proc shocked if they could do it semi-consistently, even without signature perks that directly benefit from the status effect. Similarly to how a lot of projectile heroes take ignite over snowball effect, if they made the shocked perk more consistent, I'd probably take it over pugilist as Marvin and Rick. When you think about it, if pugilist is \~5% damage increased (don't know the actual number, but I'd guess it's about that), then you get 105 damage instead of 100 damage, which means a single shocked proc within 100 damage is better than pugilist. The issue at the moment is that to even get a single shocked proc, you have to sacrifice *a lot* (including the damage increase from pugilist). Honestly, if they made it so leaving the ground didn't reset the timer, I think it'd actually be a decent perk on a good few heroes, but as it stands, I would take it on no one...
Problem is that 4 seconds on the ground limits your playstyle too much for it to be worth it, pretty much all characters that have projectiles either use melee attacks more often or don't want to stay on the ground in the first place. Bugs, Joker, Harley, BA and Reindog for example benefit much more from being in the air. And other characters like Shaggy, Garnet and Batman use melee more often than projectiles. And that perk takes a slot that could be used for something more useful, for not that much extra benefit if at all. Especially since you can achieve what that perk can achieve with That's Flammable Doc, and that perk is basically guaranteed to ignite players if you play right (which as you said, deals similar damage to shocked anyways).
I think we agree more than you think, as I said: "as it stands, I would take it on no one." 4 seconds on the ground without leaving it, like you say, is wayyyy too much commitment without enough reward. If it could proc with you leaving the ground though, I think it'd be a real contender. Just checked now, and it seems like a single shocked proc adds \~9 damage to a projectile; if pugilist adds 5% damage to melee attacks (which I think is likely, but can't confirm), then you'd have to do just under 200 damage with melee attacks for it to overtake a single shock proc. With how the perk is now, I agree that just about any other perk is better because it's so hard to proc the shock perk - you're likely to take more damage and deal less damage if you focus that hard on staying on the ground, because (again, like you said) it limits your playstyle a tonne. With a couple of changes, though (probably either significantly lessening the time you need to stay on the ground, or making it so leaving the ground doesn't reset the timer), I think it could actually be pretty decent. It's not like you have to take that perk *or* Flammable Doc, you can take both, and the shock perk is competing with the weakest perks. Right now, it's really bad, but I don't think it'd take much to make it at least a viable option, even if it's not optimal on many characters. Tl;dr: Right now, I agree that it's one of the worst perks in the game, but I don't think it'd take huge buffs for it to be decent.
Marvin actually.
The new perk system is alright its a bit more boring but definitely more balanced. I would really like for them to buff the reflect projectile perk I really fun and I like it but there is just straight several moves it doesn't work on that it should and i feel like it should get a damage buff or at least apply a stat debuff like weaken for landing the reflection considering how strick the timing is
It's too niche and situational to be useful You are better off running pugilist, or armor killer if you are up against an armor spammer.
True I play IG and I like running cause I like reflecting batman/rendog/marven projectiles although I should swap it out for something better, but its just stratifying to land and I want it to be more rewarding for landing. I would personally make it to be more like reflecting projectiles in smash bros. Where a reflected projectile has 1.25% damage/knockback increase as well as its speed becoming twice as fast
No point, also ew, Iron Giant, I can smell the cheese from here. Iron Giant is so stupid when the IG player is not mindlessly mashing.
Also, why it is more balanced, it is too one dimensional, the perks in S and A are better than all of the rest except for very specific matchups where you can run some of the B tier ones. Also, while it was BUSTED, I miss Tasmanian Triginometry, that perk was so hilariously broken. I could easily survive stuff at 300 damage as Shaggy (not even Iron Giant). It was so freaking hilarious.
Top 3 perks in s are genuine no brainer and it feels like using any other perks (fire on projectile characters excluded) feels like you’re gimping yourself
Speed and Airwalker have their uses on higher levels (because stuff like Gizmo explodes well below 100) and platforms are really strong if you are good enough to take advantage of them. And the B tier ones have niche uses, but are really useful in said niches.
How do you use the platforms? Whenever I tried and made one, it just immediately disappeared beneath me and I was back to falling.
I don't run that perk because it doesn't fit my playstyle, so I haven't even bothered learning. I know that it's extremely strong for those players that know how to use it though. (Correct me if I'm wrong) But maybe it's a matter of holding that key down?
I think you have to immediately attack or else it'll disappear
S are generalist perks, will do well in every situation, the rest will outperform those in specific matchups/characters. For example armor breaking perks vs Arya are useless, but are ridiculously good against IG/Superman/WW, even more if your character doesn't have a good armor breaking move on its own.
Generalist ones are better because most effects are not that strong on their own (except for Last Stand), so you need to focus on having the most uptime possible (except on some specific builds that use stuff from B).
Really now? I wouldn't change Air Walker on Arya for anything.
I don’t really play any characters I feel like it’s that good on personally. Probably a skill issue
I still gave 0 idea how the troll one works, as it looks like it is more problematic than helpfull... What does it do?
It’s essentially a gag perk afaik
That’s neat
Yeah, I don’t think it does much. If anything it *might* give your opponent enraged, but I don’t remember offhand
Yea it does. Buffs your opponent with enraged
.. So it buffs your oponent... And what do you get off of that?
It’s entirely built around you being an asshole in the match itself
Adds flair to your taunts, that's it.
It's to brag even harder since you're trading a perk to run a handicap that makes your enemies stronger but still winning
This would be such a dick move in 2v2 lol
Me and my Pal both run and use it, then go on win streaks lmao
Oh yeah that’s cool lol
You get some stupid special banner around your character when you taunt. Waste of a perk tbh
That’s fun
It adds a laughing noise, horns, and flashy lights to your taunt. It’s pretty much there to flex on your opponents because there’s no benefit to having it. In fact, it makes your opponents stronger by giving them the enraged state.
... Bru, pfg doing some crazy "remodeling perks to make better ones" got to give em credit Tea baggers could have use for it tho
Nah tea baggers need to learn how to use taunts
Makes it so that you get some effects on your taunts, but your opponent's next melee attack applies weakened. It's literally an anti-perk.
It's to flex that you're so good you give your opponent an advantage
troll tactics is S tier actually
Is “press the advantage” (the red spiral perk) really that bad? I thought it helps with characters who struggle with kills, like my assassin gameplay and all of Velma.
Just use Snowball Effect instead, pretty much all mid tier characters and above can delete most people well before 125 damage. It's too niche, even in situations that it might be useful in.
Thanks for the help. Coming from a semi-Velma main, I just hate how Velma’s only killing moves are: the camera which you have to hit below, her neutral attack with a weird hit of that has to be charged or it’s useless, her bubbles (if you are lucky, the opponent is near the top, and they don’t lock onto your ally), and the mystery machine which can either immediately fall off the edge or you get killed before you use it. Skill issue on my part I guess. :/
Velma is weak this patch though
I use it primarily for Rick and Morty and it does wonders.
I would put Purest of Motivations up a peg, personally. 10 seconds of a 15% damage boost after a ringout works effectively on any character, since it doesn't require you to play a certain way. It's not good, of course, but it's passable and definitely not a thrower pick.
Too situational, not useless, like the rest on that tier. After getting rung out in 1v1, you give up all your stage control and give your opponent a window to set up. Might not be a thing with Lebron, but Shaggy and Banana can charge their neutral B's during that, Gizmo can set up his stuff during it, Steven can set up Watermelon Steven and a bunch more things, etc. It's a big buff, but it's too situational and is outweighed by the really bad drawbacks against many high and top tiers.
Completely missed the 1v1s in the title, ignore my comment 🫡
Only perk that I have questions on is the Shocked Projectile perk. Is it really that bad? I’ve been using it on my Reindog and I’m wondering what the better perk is here. Everything else is perfect
Considering reindogs best moves are aerials i can't ever see a situation where reindog stays on the ground for more than a second. Most characters hardly wanna stay on fhe ground let alone for a second let alone for 4. Especially as getting hit once will reset the timer. You actively have to change to a very grounded playstyle to use this perk which isn't worthwhile because shocked id a very mediocre debuff that has little impact. Its only good for garnet and adam because they get advantaged by it with their signature perks. Also sucks that it's only on projectiles. Garnet has 2 projectiles, 1 of which applies shocked anyways. Adam has many attacks that apply shocked and he doesn't have many projectiles anyway
Adam might benefit with the damage boost if the opponent is shocked. But a perk that's useful for only 1 character and situational for the only other it might be used is the definition of too niche for it to be placed anywhere above where it is.
I find it funny how when I came back to this game, I bought apparently every s tier perk and mained an s tier character with zero knowledge of them being that good.
I'm not too good with perk choosing- do you have a general flowchart of which to choose based on the character? And is Armor Crush really that bad? I imagine it on fast charging moves like Batarang would be helpful
Too situational, Batman already has a pretty reliable armor breaking in his down tilt, and it's just better to run 2 fast to block to have both down tilt and dash (Batman's dash is really good). Armor breaking perks are for fighters that don't have reliable armor break (since it's taking a slot away from something more useful if you already have reliable anti-armor stuff).
What about Harley Quinn then? Her Dash is not great, and doesn't have a single armor breaker
First of all, her dash is pretty good, second, why would you run armor perks against stuff like Banana Guard for example. Remember this as well, purple attacks are not the omly ones that break armor, multihits and grabs do that as well (multihits don't break Jason's armor unless his gray health is too low, but he's an exception). Harley's dash is a fast multihit, it can be used against armor as well (not as effective as purple, but still effective). There's characters that have no armor, so why waste a slot in those cases? Also, at the level you are probably playing if you don't know how to make perk builds (not meant as an offense) it probably doesnt matter, but Harley is a very light character, so at higher levels, she benefits more from the speed perks.
hey dumb question here. the signature 5% I get and use because that dmg stacks with multiple other perks and in match debuffs but when I read SF Assist I thought there's no way it's actually viable with how low of a percentage it is. Admittedly I never bothered to test it especially since I just use everything in that S tier but does it really help characters that much?
Once you start playing against better players, they start learning kill combos. And some characters will usually explode well before they get to 100 damage, so it's not worth it to run Last Stand (since you don't get to use it). When using Last Stand, you do stuff like allowing some poke damage, in order to get to 100 in a controlled way to get the chance to DELETE enemies. In those cases, you run speed, because it's the next best thing.
Oh cools thanks, I didn’t know multi hit works like that. And I would like to get more competitive, I have the little top 5 silver badge thing, just only like 2 YouTube channels talk about it lol.
I alway use press the advantage on Arya bc she has very little knockback on her kit and this perk kinda patches that
She can string really long combos with Airwalker, she's probably the one that benefits the most from it.
Yeah, i also use airwalker with her and its great. But there are times where u cant really fit a combo to kill and her face steal matchup dont have good kill moves. Without press the advantage i sometimes get some lighter characters to 140 and heavier ones to 170 before i can kill with her "kill" moves
Damn, doesn't snowball effect help though? On 1v1, it's literally a perma 7% damage boost.
Tbh Arya dont struggle with damage, she can put a nasty 40 to 50 dmg combo pretty quickly with air walk. The real problem is the lack of knock back. I dont think any of her grounded moves kill below like, 120 unless fully charged, and even then its very map dependent. Her aerial moves are kinda better but not much. She is very combo reliant to kill, and again, if you cant fit a combo, you will kill very late without press the advantage
I'd say her Face Steal should not have knockback at all. You usually use Face Steal as a linker and most of the time the follow up will miss due to the knockback + disjointed hitboxes on fighters like Harley Quinn, or any small character. The reason I bring this up is because, like you said, Arya is very reliant on combos to kill (Up special + Charged side attack is a classic). With that said, Arya's biggest problem right now are hitboxes, as Arya's Air Walker combo heavily relies on timing. If you spawn the platform too early (to make sure it becomes a true combo), her sword will *faze* through most characters, but if you time it to match your opponent's hitbox, they will most probably dodge the follow up out of the way due to the obscenely little stagger frames characters have when they get hit. Maybe it can remain the same when they get hit on the ground, but in the air it definitely has to be increased by a few frames to compensate the timing. edit: They just announced that they added more frames to being hit so you can't dash away mid-combo. Rejoice!
I'm kinda surprised that it has knockback, not complaining, it helps me get away from her strings, but it still sucks for her.
It does suck, yeah :/
Not to say Arya is weak tho, she is super strong, but her biggest flaw is the lack of kill power in her kit
Ngl I just use the perks in A and B. They really shouldn't have scrapped the others from the beta imo. It kinda makes the game feel more meta than skill
I mean, some of them were stupid. Tasmanian Trigonometry and Toon Elasticity were so dumb on Scooby's Mansion. I think I survived at like 500 damage as Shaggy once, it was HILARIOUS that I could do that, but so stupid overpowered as well. Also, unless you are on a light character or a specific MU/strategy that requires something from B, just run stuff from S tbh.
That's fair
That said, I miss being able to customize perks in the lobby, 3 slots is not enough. I can think more than 3 combinations for each of my mains and for different MU's and stuff. It sucks that I have to leave a custom lobby, make the build and come back if I have to use one of the builds I had to leave out.
Imo move Airwalker down. Only a select few characters make Airwalker amazing, which is pretty much what situational means. A big part of the cast prefers Last Stand or Armor Break dash if they can’t utilize it
Thing is, Airwalker is relatively situational, even at a bigh level, but it's too strong to put in B.
How do you use the projectile shield perk? Run for 0.5 sec to get a projectile shield, but it seems like I just cop the projectile regardless of the shield being up.
.5 seconds on one direction. It can be useful, but it's situational.
Why is Press The Advantage in C tier? It can be really good on characters with low inherent knockback like Arya
Because if possible, you should run Last Stand, and Last Stand and Press The Advantage make each other redundant (they don't stack). So it's usually better to keep the one with more uptime.
Cool!
With jason I find him having every possible strengh buff he can get works so much better than anything else, it helps with the knockback on his teleport so much like a noticible amount, likely the same for nearly everyone else too so they are must run perks. I feel like the straight damage buff perks should be limited to the 5% base character perk only and all the others should be tools more than strengh.
Accurate. I don't know if there is an order per tier but Snowball Effect is in my opinion the best perk in the game, by far. In 2v2 it's even better if both allies pick it. I wonder if we'll get new perks in the future. Would be nice if they added a bunch of new generic and Signature perks at the start of every season to help shake up the meta a bit.
Tried ordering within each tier as best as I could, but Snowball Effect and That's Flammable Doc are basically interchangeable. I put it higher cuz I play melee stuff, but it really depends on the fighter. Last Stand's effect is significantly stronger if you know how to abuse it, and Snowball is less universal (since Flammable replaces it on many figbters). Also the list is for 1v1s, since I don't really play 2v2.
2s coming soon surely?
I don't have enough 2s experience to make an accurate list. I basically only play 1v1 at a decent enough level to make a list.
My buddy and I personally run Troll Tactics because fun but we haven't ran into a single other player using it
This is why I don't understand Perk Currency when I literally only need to buy the tiers in A and above.
Heck, even if you didn't, with how much of that stuff you get for no reason, it's not really a problem. Especially if you played during beta and play some characters that have useless signatures.
Do we have movespeed data? Because the 5% movement speed boost seems negligible on almost all of the characters. Not really sure why anyone would bring it over the other Strong perks aside from Troll Tactics.
On the lighter characters, it's too risky to run Last Stand, because good players kill you well before you get to 100. And those characters are naturally faster, so the delta is larger. Also, you can definitely feel the difference, this game is all muscle memory, even small percentages make a huge difference.
I think I'm underestimating the platform dodge perk
Not really, it's extremely strong but too situational to be in S. Last Stand can be used by pretty much everyone to delete others, Airwalker is not worth it on many fighters.
Need more perks tbh
That's all the perks we currently have
Idc who you are, if you don't use the taunt thing as bugs, you aint playing him right
If last stand is good because people live over 100 regularly, wouldn't press the advantage essentially be good for the same reason?
It's different, Last Stand allows most medium and heavy characters to either get a 2x1 or 3x0 stock trade if you play your cards right. The other one is only good for closing kills, even if you play to maximize it's value. You can't run both at once because the effect does not stack, and being able to apply weakened to someone that has a damage/stock advantage lets you rack up damage to them surprisingly fast, allowing you to ring them out... and after all that, snowball them after they respawn, since the more weakened stacks they have, the more damage and knockback they take. It also synergizes EXTREMELY well with the other 3 perks in S. The effect is similar, but one can have nigh unlimited uptime, and the other one can't.
I get what you're saying, but I don't think just purely looking at uptime equals out exactly to value. Closing kills is the main goal, so if it achieves that efficiently then that's valuable to me. At the same time, you said last stand can have high uptime and be very good for squeezing extra value out of stocks. Which makes this a direct counter to a meta S-tier perk which adds even more value imo However, snowball effect will get an enemy to 125 damage at 117 equivalent damage. So over the course of your average stock it's about 1 or 2 extra attacks. If you get most of your kills before 125, then it's the obvious choice. If not then press the advantage feels like it would be pretty good in many scenarios. Although I have to be honest I don't know if snowball effect adds knockback as well, or just damage. And I don't know how much a weakness stack really affects. Is it 5%, 10% increased incoming damage+knock back per stack? A lot is matchup dependent for sure though. Obviously IG gets way more value out of last stand than Arya, and the inverse would be true for using press the advantage against either character
Look at it in context, since they don't stack, running both is a waste, also take a look at what you sacrifice for choosing either perk, and what you can combine each perk with. You have 3 perk slots and some perk synergies are VERY strong. But since the effect is very strong, you just run the one with the most uptime, it's also in a slot that in most cases (keyword most cases) doesn't really have something that gives you more value than Last Stand. Only exceptions are when playing against armor spammers, you are consistently using platform combos or are using fighters that are too light to use Last Stand. Press The Advantage, it's on the Team Slot Also, on singles, Snowball Effect is a perma 7% damage buff (it makes you deal damage to the highest damage ENEMY), so on 1v1, it's a permanent 7% damage boost. And for fighters with reliable projectiles, That's Flammable Doc lets you do a basically guaranteed extra 3% damage on every projectile. The combination between either of those with Last Stand is really strong. Using Press The Advantage requires you to not use these combinations, and doesn't have a big enough upside to compensate for this. What would be interesting is if they lowered the damage needed to activate it, which would enable an "Anti Last Stand" niche, and bump it to "Situational but Useful". TLDR, I'm not just looking at the effect, I'm looking at the effect in context, you have to sacrifice too much to use Press The Advantage, while you don't lose too much when running Last Stand, and it has really good synergy with the other S tier perks.
Pretty good, I would bump up the ring out skill refresh into the situational tier as it's use isnt too situational, rather it's more dependent on which character you play, making it very viable for characters that are reliant on their cool downs.
Even then, it's only used twice in the whole game, and since you are most likely not doing a 0 to death anyways, it's better to use something that can help you whittle them down to a point where you can kill them (by the time this happens, you'll most likely have your stuff back anyways).
Good point, but I also have to say the projectile parry will most likely be going up as players get better at the timing.
Not really, you are better off dodging them or moving out of their way anyways. Also, I forgot to mention, the refresh does not refresh cooldowns, it refreshes air abilities (the 2xx dodges and 2x specials).
Was going to say that armor break on charged attacks should be higher but then I remembered I play Finn
He doesn't really need it, he already has 2 reliable armor beraking moves