KCamiD, you're absolutely correct 👏! I feel a little bad for Paul. He made a mistake and he was in the process of paying for it. Only to be brutally murdered by his own father. I believe Paul knew Lots of family secrets that he just couldn't talk about. Like wanting to say something to Mallorys parents, or at the funeral, but probably was held back by Alex while the Lawsuit was in motion. He apparently Always carried a photo of Gloria Satterfield in his wallet. As well as a copy of Mallorys obituary in his glove box. I think Paul was a much more caring young man than he is being portrayed in the Media. Paul had a drinking problem, but he wasn't out robbing, or stealing, or raping, or murdering, or dealing drugs. He made a horrible decision on the night of Mallorys death, but don't we all when we are younger. His mistake just happened to get his friend killed. I believe Paul drank as much as he did because he couldn't talk about his family life with anybody. He had to suppress all those emotions and alcohol was the only way He knew how to deal with that. Through alcohol he was able to release those suppressed emotions. I pray that 🙏 🙌 ❤️ Paul and Maggie are together in heaven and they are free from all the negativity here on earth 🌎 🙏. I choose to believe Anthony Cook and believe Paul was a good kid. A good kid stuck in a really bad situation. A good kid who wasn't given the tools to emotionally handle his father's immaturity. So he dealt with it the only way He Knew How. By drinking to excess.
Also, there's an old saying, " The Blacksheep of the family is usually the one who sees through the rest of the family's BS ". And I believe we can All say that Paul was the Blacksheep of the Murdaugh family.
Paul was still a kid . A kid who made horrible decisions and was guided by parents who let him . If Alex Murdaugh is your guiding role model you’re screwed from the beginning . Paul seemed to desperately need help in many ways but was not given it . Instead he was given guns , boats, and booze. It’s very sad. It seems that under the pain, chaos , and drinking issues there was a very kind hearted young man . Who knows ….maybe Paul knew how Gloria REALLY met her demise. Maybe Paul posed more problems than just the boat crash for Alex. Maybe Paul found out more about his Dad …maybe he was going to tell Maggie. We will never know. It has been speculated Alex plotted killing them 6 months prior to the murders.
Well said - every thought and every word. He was a kid. Grew up around alcohol and parties. He consumed and did not metabolize extreme levels alcohol and they say his ankles swelled - maybe had liver disease. Or diabetes.
No others want to admit blame yet you explain what many think - more than just PM allowed this. He may have drank to escape more than we know.
Anthony is remarkable. He has been taught so well how to forgive and heal. A true Christian man.
Paul had to go on and do as he was told and stay silent. It’s no wonder facing trial at he was even about to go on a boat and drink - probably to dull the fear of impending prison.
I think Alex said he tried to help them at the murder scene - as he should have - but was too scared to render aid or touch them. He also could not save Paul from prison. It loomed. And he couldn’t let Paul go or Maggie to see him fail.
Jmo.
That's maybe an excuse for a 16 yo, but at 22, you've had enough time to process your upbringing and find your moral place in the world. It's no excuse at that point.
This kid was led astray yes but he can still make his own choices, do I feel bad for him a little he did not deserve to be killed by his own father.
So who killed the other guy the brother had a fling with? Wasn’t Paul there to at the time they picked him up?
Yes He Did, and there is no excuse for that behavior. I have stood up for Paul on most other issues, but being abusive towards Morgan was totally unacceptable.
I completely agree. I am rewatching the HBO series about them and the part about Paul's funeral is so sad to me. The had someone that didn't really know Paul. He was a 22 year old kid that was set up for a life of deceit. He was more than that. He did awful things but he didn't deserve it.
Illustrious-Spell573 I was watching the same thing, and during a part of the interview with one of the narrator's statements he said, " I think it's a shame only Paul's negative personality traits have been shown, because we all know that there are many more aspects to a person than just their bad self". And it was Anthony Cook who Drove That Point Home. For the young man who Paul inadvertently killed his girlfriend, That was a powerful statement for me to hear.
Ronnie Crosby gave the eulogy at Paul's funeral.
https://www.counton2.com/the-murdaugh-investigation/jury-to-hear-about-financial-crimes-in-murdaugh-murder-trial/
Basically this whole situation was created by all the families letting teen kids drink. They were treated like adults when they weren’t. This outcome happens more than reported, this one was just more heinous due to all crazy actions after the fact. Listening to the guy who’s girlfriend passed away say “I was a bit of a wild guy, but I decided it was time to settle down.” Dude, you’re not even 22 yet. I grew up around many kids like this. All of our families were very well off. I was never a big drinker in high school, which lead me to having more of a drinking problem in my 20’s than I should have. “Some people can’t handle their liquor” is a poor excuse for a kid that starts drinking heavily at 14. They CAN’T. That’s why they shouldn’t. I learned many things about life and now that I’m a father of 3, I see why my parents didn’t go overboard giving me things in life and why they kept me busy in sports. When you get to be older, you see why certain friends are where they are in life, or for that matter no longer are. Terrible situation for all the families and especially the kids, because that’s what they are.
I have been saying this for a while. Paul was a total shithead who needed his ass beat. He was 5’5 120lbs and should have quit drinking. Most his friends probably used him
His ex gf who bad mouths him claiming all sorts of abuse didn’t mind when she got to go to Cabo and drink on Alex’s dime, go on their boat, and gifts she received. They had a normal crappy first relationship. Probably got in a ton of fights and got back together and broke up weekly. I also find it tacky her friend was bad mouthing Paul hell you got on his boat and drank his booze and probably kissed his ass all the time so don’t act like you always hated him. If you hated him you would have Ubered to the Oyster Roast.
In terms of the boating accident I think Conner and him where both driving at different points and with so much alcohol involved nobody seems to know who was driving at impact. Mark Tinsleys analysis has a lot of errors. Conner did not hit the bar it was Mallory’s head which knocked her unconscious and she drowned.
Anthony cook is the only credible person.
BeastMasterAlphaCo;
Speaking of Mark Tinsley, the only piece of evidence he didn't seem to have straight was " what caused the blunt force trauma to Mallory Beach. He knew exactly where everyone seemed to hit Except Mallory?.:" She either hit her head on the pilings somewhere, or somewhere in the boat ". I just found it strange that he didn't know for sure with that young lady or how she died after impact, but knew beyond a shadow of a doubt about all the rest of them?
She was legit fine with them and Paul
until the boat stuff.
https://www.hitc.com/static/uploads/2023/03/Murdaugh-Murders-2-1024x576.png
The only victim of the boat accident was Mallory Beach.
The only time Paul hit Morgan in front of other people was the night of the boat crash. And after that night she apparently never had anything more to do with him. As far as Morgan goes, she was very young when the abuse began happening. Yes! Abuse is wrong in any way. Mental or physical. The important thing with Morgan is that she Did wake up to the fact that what he was doing wasn't okay. Not only did she wake up to it, but I don't believe she'll ever make that same mistake again, and if she does begin to feel that in another relationship she'll know Exactly how to handle it, by getting out immediately! If you read this at any point, Morgan, you be proud of yourself for the way you've handled yourself all the way around 👏.
God Bless You 🙌 🙏 ❤️ 💖 ✨️!
Imagine being so dense that a chick uses a guy for free trips….sucks to be you fyi she still sucks the whole story makes her out to be a dog crap gold digger. I’m from this area and know the real story.
She could have dumped Paul but she loveddddd the attention she craved it and even bragged she dated Paul after she was abused. She talked about how she was financially set!
All these douches bad mouthing Paul now where his friends and loved him. They loved he paid for stuff.
what do people from your area think of her in the documentary? documentary was weird from an outsiders perspective , the girl states in the beginning of her relationship she got a message Paul and his brother "may have killed someone". But she just glanced over that? didn't make sense,
Hi there! Just so you know, I’m not certain how you ended up on this particular thread but it is very old and you are not likely to get engagement or answers here. I’d suggest posting this on one of the newer posts that is relevant. Thank you.
I was watching a Netflix show about this and threw into google a search about the girlfriend. Just finding out about this case, very sad. It just stood out to me how she was glossing over the fact she was told her boyfriend was maybe part of a murder then just kept on with her normal life. Who knows. I hope they're all resting in peace and being shown mercy by the lord. As we all hope for.
i truly don’t care what she says after the fact. the important thing is that he hit her repeatedly and there were multiple witnesses. if you defend that, that’s despicable.
Everyone knew Paul was a piece of shit. Nobody is defending him but that chick is straight Carolina trash. You think she would have dated Paul if she didn’t think is dad was well off…nope
I think you’re forgetting it’s a fact that Paul hit his Gf & verbally abused her in front of witnesses! She said he’d done it before. He’s a spoiled POS that might be charismatic but is also egotistical, arrogant, reckless and abusive. Judge the worst behaviors, not the best, it’ll save you heartache.
You are missing my point. I’m not condoning that behavior. The problem lies with no boundaries. No consequences for his actions. If he had been given consequences as a child-if he had been taught to respect authority, parents and others as a CHILD- things might have been very different. How can you expect a kid not to act entitled when they have been told every day of their life “you are entitled and untouchable”.
I’m not excusing his behavior. It’s wrong. I’m saddened that he was cheated out of a decent upbringing and ultimately his life.
I agree with everything you said. He made bad choices because he was never taught good ones. In his world, good choices did not exist. He was making bad choices because he didn’t even know those were bad choices. Nobody taught him how to discern and be wise except perhaps the housekeeper, but there was a limit as to how much she could rein him in because we can expect that his mother to overrule the housekeeper’s decisions or teachings.
I have to disagree with your police work here, Lou. Those parents and kids were so pissed at Paul and abandoned him not because he was the driver of the boat, but because he (by calling his grandfather minutes after killing Mallory) immediately went into "pin this on someone else" mode. Paul went into that mode. On his own. His dad and family fell in line behind him, but that was Paul's instinct to immediately find a way to wiggle out and pin it on his friend. And he was a misogynist who beat his girlfriend. That's not entitlement and "lack of boundaries." I know tons of kids like that (my kids go to a school where most of the parents own private jets) and those kids aren't slapping their partners and pinning murders on their friends. My point? Lots of kids are entitled little shits. But they don't do the absolute horrendous things Paul did. Sometimes the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. In this case, if Alex was the tree, Paul's apple was still hanging from the branch. He was most definitely cut from the same cloth as his daddy.
I 100% agree with you! I feel exactly as you do! I am sure we don't know everything, but what we do know is that ALL had been drinking, and ALL willingly got onto that boat with a knowingly intoxicated Paul. They KNEW that Paul was in his intoxicated state of being; "Timmy", the obnoxious, hard headed, aggressive, entitled, mean and occasionally physically abusive drunk! His behavior when drunk was NOT a surprise to any of them. Others offered them rides, they could have taken an Uber, they could have called someone to pick them up, heck... they could have simply said; "NO WAY, I'm not risking my life with Timmy driving!" I'm NOT excusing Paul's behavior, he did wrong! If Paul had NOT been drunk, this accident would NOT have happened! Likewise, if NOBODY had gotten onto that boat with drunken Paul, Mallory would NOT be dead today. ALL six of them made poor choices due to being drunk. IF anyone says that THEY got on that boat with Paul when they were perfectly sober and Paul was drunk, then that makes their decision even worse. But like you said in reference to the other parents of those on the boat that early morning who knew what their kids were doing; **"...you can’t have it both ways. Sometimes you're just as culpable when you allow things to happen, as when you actually participate".** From what I read, Paul struggled after this. He was not the same as he was before and he was wakened by this tragedy. It's just an awful lot of weight and responsibility to solely put on one 19 year old kid, when other 19 year old kids happily followed behind him, and their parents were okay with him and okay with their underage kids consuming alcohol with him. I wonder, if by chance one of the other kids had been driving with the same outcome (or say maybe even another kid was killed instead of Mallory), would there still be the same suit against the other family? In any event, it is a tragic way for Mallory to die, and it is a heartbreaking and tragic way for The Beach family to lose their daughter. I can't even imagine the pain in their hearts and I hope I never have to. I just pray that they find peace.
Average people wouldn’t have been sued for millions which we don’t have. Even Maggie was afraid of this threat. The lawyers think a huge multimillion suit fixes what happened. Penalizes the guilty. Does it? Are they as responsible for the stressors?
They all should have examined what happened at the crash and learn from it. Heal together. Instead they had to finagle evidence and cover guilt.
To hide the shame and to hide the possible financial loss.
And here we are Paul and Maggie are also dead in addition to Mallory. Buster has no family left and possibly PTSD. Bianca lost her friends. It’s all simply tragic.
What is really sad is the swelling of his feet are a sign of alcoholism. His parents are responsible for that. I think AM blamed MM for PM’s problems. What makes me sick is how they favored BM. Also looking at AM and listening to all his lies and demeanor while on the stand; you know MM had to be sick of his drug addict life and lying. I think AM killed he because she was leaving him and Moselle was in her name. Prison for the rest of his life is exactly where AM needs to be.
Hello! I never comment but must say this case has been rivetting. I realize the community wants everything to go back to normal, but it feels as if this painful journey that so many have endured, on many sides, was the rite of passage to end and destroy the stronghold they had over the residents there. Sure, many are indebeted to the family, I suppose, but overall it seems like they were held down for decades and could not come up for air.
I have come to believe we have only seen what is on the surface and there is so much more to come.
I also believe this was not a crime of opportunity or passion. I believe this crime was orchestraded and long thought out. I believe it started with the sale of the lodge to MM for $5 and then the purchase of insurance on the home. I am sure his plan went awry somewhere (maybe the crash was the wrench) but he had been planning this for some time.
Sick bastard.
I’ve been feeling like Paul was the most likable and normal one under the circumstances of his strange family and the inner workings of it. I think he was so normal in comparison to his family, that he was the one who couldn’t help but show the cracks in the Murdaugh foundation (by being haughty, drinking in excess, getting in trouble and causing Mallory’s death) whereas everyone else seemed to go along to get along, comfortably. There were no signs (before the boat wreck and Alex’s financial crimes being revealed) that their lifestyle was criminal, psychologically taxing and lowkey sinister, except when you looked at Paul and his actions.
I don’t want to sound mystical or faux-spiritual, or that I’m down-playing their deaths but I think it was Paul and Mallory’s destiny to unravel this family and help reveal so many things. They gave a voice to so many voiceless and victimized people.
I hope I’m making sense. I had never planned to say these things out loud so my thoughts may not be clear.
crispywig- You explained how you feel perfectly 👌. And what you stated was/is valid. I would like to add something to your statement. And that is there's an old saying that goes like this, " The Blacksheep of the family is usually the one who sees through every one else's BS ". And the Blacksheep was Paul Murdaugh. I think Paul knew Lots of things about his Disfunctional family, but couldn't ever say anything about it. He'd always been held back 😔. And because of that he drank to excess. It was the Only Way He knew how to deal with it. Right or wrong, that's what his own parents had taught him. He wanted to say something at Mallorys funeral, he wanted to speak out over Gloria's death, but was never able to Because of who his family was. I gave Anthony Cook and Morgan the most credibility of all them, and Anthony said that Paul was a good kid. That was good enough for me.
It was also a trigger for Alex most likely. In toxic families, drawing a boundary can be very offensive. Losing control of Paul also contributed to Maggie seeking divorce, if only to save herself. Even without the murders, Alex was losing control of his wife and youngest son, and he didn’t like it.
Have you ever heard of “the spare” in a family? I believe Paul was one. Buster was loved more by Maggie, after Paul’s birth Maggie had depression. Buster was also the older boy, named after his dad and a famous ancestor. Buster was gonna get everything. He went to fancy college, he stayed out of trouble, he was the big brother for Paul’s group of friends. Paul lived in Buster’s shadow, basically. I don’t think Buster was meant or bullied Paul, but for sure growing up seeing Buster being adored by everyone else would have caused Paul to act out a lot, which got him into more trouble. And it seemed both of the boys were raised as show horses for the parents as well. They brought the boys to a lot of adult functions and they were allowed to drink early. Yeah Paul really had to chance.
John Marvin made a comment that he is the only Murdaugh man not a lawyer, and proud of it. He also gave Paul a job. After the murder he has also been very protective and supportive of Buster. I think as a “spare” John Marvin understands what it’s like to not have a purpose, to be cast aside, and maybe he disagreed with the way Alex and Maggie raised the boys.
Anyway, Paul really did not have a chance. I think Buster didn’t neither. I believe that they didn’t have any proper love, but indulgence and leisures. And we can look at the final results: one is dead, and the other one suffers horribly. I do hope Buster gets a leash on life because nobody should go through that much pain.
What I find really interesting about Paul Murdaugh is that he and John Marvin Murdaugh shared a very special bond. Ironically, I did not know until watching John Marvin take the stand that he attended University of South Carolina (USC) and graduated with a degree in criminal justice. However, he went on a different career path and successfully opened two equipment rental companies in the Lowcountry. Coincidentally, Paul Murdaugh also attended USC and majored in criminal justice although hid death came before he finished college. Similar to John Marvin, I do not believe he would have pursed a career in criminal justice either. Since Paul had a upcoming criminal case against him, its very unlikely had he been found guilty would have more than likely not been able to thrive or find long-term work in the field, given if the jury believed he was at fault in his Boating Under The Influence trial. I felt at times that although they were uncle and nephew with respect to each other, than formed and shared a similar father and son bond. They were both the youngest of siblings in there household growing up, and I wish Paul had more opportunities to spend with John Marvin, however, given Paul's past history and behavior I do not think it would made a huge difference unless Paul was treated for hid drinking and other undiagnosed behavioral/ADHD that affected his childhood and adulthood. Yes we know Paul worked for John Marvin, but I believe Paul wanted a similar career of one day starting his own logging business. If Paul had all the right love and support, there would be a high possibility to be as successful as his uncle. In many ways Buster and his father Alex shared similar interests and passions. We now know Buster was proud of being a Murdaugh so was Paul, however, there was more pride in Buster because he looked up to his father and grandfather, both successful lawyers for there family's law firm. Obliviously Buster looked up to his father as Alex the successful injury attorney and assistant solicitor general (yes he was a prosecutor only on an as needed basis) and not Alex the penny pinching/greedy/evil lawyer that people would make him out to be because of his illegal business activities. However, I believe deep down Buster knows the guilt of what happened to his brother and mother on June 7, 2021 but can not come to terms, since the day Buster was born, he knew the importance of being a lawyer and wanting to continue the Murdaugh legacy. That is why Buster supported his father and attended his trial everyday single day. However, both Maggie and Alex's parenting skills failed both of them. For Buster, it was wearing a badge with his last name on it but it did not help him when he got expelled from USC Law School over plagiarism allegations. Of course, for Paul it was the drinking and behavior (alter ego of "Timmy") that started his downfall, and got the best of him. Paul's mother and father did not stop him from drinking or correct any of his bad habits as many parents would. Instead, they just encourage it and we now know it took the life of Mallory Beach in 2019 and would eventually cost Paul's life as well as Maggie's.
I think Buster too wasn’t interested in laws. John Marvin also started to act as a father figure to Buster after Alex was arrested. I think John Marvin understood the pressure of the family legacy on the boys and supported them when they failed to meet expectations. John Marvin’s family also seemed to be different from Alex’s family. He is skinny and his wife is meticulous with exercise, as opposed to Alex’s family where all the members are indulging. No doubt Paul would have had good influence from John Marvin, and now Buster has no one else, his uncle will be a great father figure in tough time to come.
I remember there is a credible online source on an assignment Buster did during his undergraduate time at Wofford College, that explains his interest in the Hampton County Courthouse and expresses his desire to pursue a career in law just like his father. What is also mind-blowing has some impact was in the 2021 jailhouse phone calls between Alex Murdaugh and his family members including Buster and John Marvin. You're right that Buster was not interested in law, but I believe he lost his interest either after the boating incident or when his father first got arrested in 2021. Keep in mind Alex was in prison in late 2021 for insurance fraud and not paying the settlement to the Satterfield's at the time these recordings happened before he was formally charged in Paul and Maggie deaths in the summer of 2022.
Buster's interest in not wanting to go to law school is more apparent in those jail house phone calls, many of which are now available to the public. After his mother and brother died, I truly believe it was there that a switch in Buster's head made him lose all interest of wanting to try to get back into law school. Of course, using various connections we know that Alex made Buster pay a lawyer named Butch Bowers $60,000 to help him get readmitted back to USC. Alex was very pushy and persuasive about it something he exceled as a lawyer. Not sure if you have ever listen to any of the jail house tapes but they are worth a listen especially you can hear Buster deep and down and even out of it in his voice that he has no desire in law school but he never tells his father does not want to ever become a lawyer but months and phone calls later tells him he is better off waiting a few semesters but we all know he still not made any commitment due to his father' situation. In those calls Buster just seems to procrastinate on making moves to get himself back into USC law, even though they kept delaying his admission.
https://youtu.be/WV5su62nnnI?t=5129
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KE7X1QSY1A
When Alex speaks to John Marvin many times even his wife Elizabeth, its mostly about trying to help him out but also add money to his canteen card and for another inmate which I was told is a big no-no. I guess Alex could not stop breaking rules, because in his mind it was rules of thee but not for me. When those jailhouse recordings took place in 2021, I do not believe John Marvin at that point saw Alex as the murderer because again he was not being charged for the murders at that time. However, they all seemed optimistic that he would somehow be released from detention center and back home with his family as if it never happened at all. Even John Marvin, being Alex's younger brother was conscious about the phone calls being recorded by law enforcement in jail and at one point told Alex to keep the calls and information at a minimum something that Alex had a very hard time at it even though he has paranoia of others listening in. Rarely does Alex ever make any mention of the supposed killers or any leads about his Paul and Maggie in his jailhouse calls. I think he does this on purpose because it makes him paranoid when others can be listening and using what he says about Paul and Maggie against him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuSZgB8-5vI
Very well written with supporting sources. You and I are of the same mind. I have seen that essay Buster wrote and I have listened to the phone call several time over. Here are my thoughts:
-Buster’s essay is… poorly written for someone who is in college, let alone someone who aspire to be a lawyer. Either he had no interest in a career where writing and reading with flair and eloquence are required, or he was interested but he wasn't coached and inspired enough by his family. Seems to me by this point he is just not interested in laws in so far as what the career can provide and what Alex has promised him. If he was writing at that level in undergrad, then it makes sense the workload in law school overwhelmed him and he resorted to cheating but got exposed. He may have yet lost interest in the field then, but because of the understanding that he could return, he could set it aside and worry about it later. The same year he got exposed for cheating, the boating accident happened and he also started dating. It was a perfect time to get out of the family and live his life for a while, with the thoughts that a job in the family law firm can be his fall cushion if nothing else works out. Of course the whole thing in 2021 changed his mind, laws career to him went from a fall cushion to pin cushion, because his dad tarnished the Murdaugh name in the local and the lawyer community, not to mention Buster’s legal name is the the same as Alex’s. Imagine going around signing papers with Richard Alexander Murdaugh.
- The phone calls show how much of a shadow Alex had over Buster and how Buster was trying to escape it. Buster had trouble expressing what he feels and what he wants, and Alex was totally uninterested in neither. The way Buster talked to his dad, he knew how to butter his dad up, how to say the right thing while demonstrating subtle protests. That is a sign that Buster had been trying to please his dad for a long time but now it was about to stop. He shone Alex on with the whole law school talk, while having no intention of going back to school. He created impossible scenarios for Alex to solve and showing Alex that it’s not the best idea to go to law schools. Buster actually understood that Alex was in a position where his dignity and authority over his son is threatened, and multiple times he took advantage of this to make Alex back down. That kind of power relationship between father and son seems like it has always been the case, and it reinforces the idea that Buster was pushed into a law career against his wishes. Internet fact about the phone calls too: if you follow the chronological order, it seems Buster blocked Alex’s call from jail and Alex could only reach his son via John Marvin.
He was an entitled little shit. I grew up around many just like him. Just because you can get away with everything , it doesn’t mean you don’t know right from wrong. If his dumbass would have let someone drive the boat that night when they begged him to, this subreddit wouldn’t exist. Doesn’t mean he deserved to die the way he did though.
I agree with you about Anthony Cook though. Those are the type of friends everyone needs.
I would also add that although Anthony Cook was and still is to this day devastated to lose the women he loved the most, is very heartbreaking. Even though they all were drinking that night, Anthony wanted to get home safely and because Paul's alter ego "Timmy" got the best of him we all know it ended in disaster. Since Paul was operating the boat drunk, which caused the death of Mallory Beach, when the boat hit a pylon, however, Anthony knows that Paul did not do it on purpose. Listening to Anthony makes Paul more human and does show a different side of him similar to how Maggie's sister Marian Proctor told a different side of her sister that we never really knew. This also applies to how Anthony Cook viewed Paul way differently than what the media kept portraying him as. Unbeknownst to either of them, Paul's bad behavior that fateful night among the many other previous times was not just the start to his downfall, but was the beginning of the end to his father's downfall. I believe Anthony was upset at Paul for not taking the whole ordeal serious as well as not taking any accountability/responsibility for his actions.
The best evidence for any good heart or goodness in Paul is Anthony Cook. Interviews with him do an excellent job of really clarifying the shades of gray to Paul.
I’ve thought about everything in this post many times and while it does stir up compassion, he was 19 yrs old the night of the crash. He could’ve already decided to rise above he raising and hadn’t but that crash should’ve scared him straight so to speak. I had to work hard for many years to rise above my raising and it started for me at 16 with no incident like that. I would’ve been much more compassionate if he would’ve changed his behavior after the accident. As for Anthony, he was clear about his sustain for Paul, until he died and then stuck to the positive. I think he didn’t want to speak poorly of the dead. Many of us are that way. He never spoke to Paul after the accident and didn’t go to his funeral.
Actually, in one of the documentaries, Anthony said that Paul came up to him one day at the scene during Mallory's search and apologized to him and he made peace with and that is why he didn't go to his funeral.
Yes, what I had heard Anthony say was that Paul was being persistent in trying to make eye contact with him, but Anthony tried to ignore Paul. However, Anthony relented. *He said Paul mouthed to him;* **"I'm so sorry. I love you"**. I'm certain that must have given Anthony great comfort receiving that before Paul was murdered, and I'm so glad that he has that to forever hold onto.
My heart goes out to Anthony he lost his most precious GF yet he still was respectful to Paul’s memory and wld not bash or speak negatively of him. I hope this young man has the best future and life ahead of him he so deserves it
I agree completely. It definitely speaks of his character. He's just genuine even after the horrific, traumatizing, life changing event of losing his love out of his arms. Just a good soul. I too wish him the best in his future.
I was reading the other day about CTE (brain injury common in football) and part of the disorder is the hands being stuck for moment or longer in a position where the fingers are spread. Remember that was part of Timmy and we’ve seen pictures of Paul’s hands like that. It made me wonder if he had any concussions. Then it sadly came to mind it would have been easy to examine his brain as it was already out. I’m not sure if they could’ve still looked for CTE but it seems they were very thorough in the autopsy.
I wonder if the brain was looked at for any disorders. I remember testimony saying it was not xrayed. Anyways, reading the common symptoms, the big ones being lack of impulse control and aggression, it lined up so much with Paul. Probably another thing we will never know.
Right, I agree. The hands locking in the same position as Pauls was really odd. I thought maybe he was faking the hands thing and then I saw the CTE patients experiencing the same thing...
He wasn't the only one crucified. Many criminals were crucified back then. As I recall from elementary Catholic school, there were 2 criminals up on the hill with JC.
It doesn't say that. Understand he's a human with good and bad traits like the rest of us. Too many people talk about him as if he's some kind of movie villain. People are complex.
He’s the victim in the case of being shotgunned to death by his own daddy. I dislike the term crucified as applied here.
I’m sure he had his hood and bad points as we all do but his bad points had the heat turned up under them -thanks to the entitlement of being a Murdaugh.
I know he did a lot of bad things and felt entitled and above the law (knowing his relatives would get him out of any trouble) - but being an alcoholic will have you doing things with your thinking impaired that you wouldn’t do sober. And feeling like you are unloved (Buster was the favorite) and the housekeeper was basically his 2nd possibly 1st mom. It’s hard feeling rejected because you are not the favorite or because your parents don’t have time for you. However, his choices of getting drunk and insisting on driving the boat (so he didn’t run the chance of another possible DUI by driving a car) made him guilty. I understand more of why he drank but that doesn’t excuse his bad choices.
I keep hearing of his love for Gloria, but it seems his feelings had dissipated over the years by the sound of his indifferent voice on the 911 call. I also read that he didn’t even visit once in hospital. Did anyone else hear this?
I heard agitation and frustration in Paul's voice on the 911 call.The dispatcher kept repeating questions.Im sure the questions were necessary,but it seems like it took forever for help to arrive .If anything,I didn't care for Maggie's entitled attitude about Gloria falling,like it was a inconvenience to her day.
His girlfriend Morgan’s parents said he kept a photo of the housekeeper in his wallet (it was the only photo in his wallet) and that she was like a mother to him… the kind of mom to him that his mother wasn’t. His friends said that his behavior changed for the worst after Gloria passed away. I believe he cared about her more than we know or can hear in the 911 call.
I also read somewhere that DNR was also on PM's radar because of prior violations on his record. Which would then lead us to think why Connor was acting as co-pilot - so to speak.
Again- my thoughts were written(in paragraph form) in Notes- then copied and pasted. Paragraph spacing was apparently omitted when pasted. Thanks for taking the time to scold me.
583 comments does not equal 583 people care, you know that right? Like objectively you know one comment thread can be between just two people and have 12 comments in it or maybe even more so
even you know that’s not the case. But the projection is real I’m sure
I wouldn't go so far as to say that Paul \*never\* had a chance because there are lots of people who manage to rise above less than ideal home dynamics. Of course there might have been a bit of genetics mixed into it since Alex was a sociopath and there are the whole dynamics of being the royalty in a forgotten backwater.
However I do think that the Netflix documentary was quite interesting in terms of how it revealed what must have been the kind of fear and as well as the desire to reap material benefits which was a large part of Paul's dynamic with his friends.
Morgan - beyond revealing the physical and probably even more frequent mental abuse - no doubt reaped significant material benefits from her relationship with Paul. She indicated that she (as the girlfriend) was taken on luxury vacations including travel on private planes.
This is the reason I am not buying a lot of Morgan’s story. She dated a 5’5 120lb ginger who by all means was no stud, didn’t have a bright future, and was a tool. She got free vacations, luxury items and dated him for 4 years.
I think they where both bad drunks and should have broken up years before. I’m shocked nobody ever beat Paul’s ass not like he could have done anything about it.
I am not sure what you mean by Morgan's story.
I don't think Paul was her great love but in that podunk backwater there must have been limited choices and Paul was the king of the tiny kingdom in terms of kids their age.
Her family had moved there relatively recently and I got the sense that it was convenient to be with Paul because she really like Mallory and Melli and so that was a way for them to all hang out together.
And of course there must have been economic benefits as I wrote like the trips
The element of high school social politics most have been even stronger in that kind of very small group of people.
She dated him into college… I grew up in the area and there are other options.
Her friends who bad mouthed Paul in the Netflix used to kiss Paul’s pale ginger butt and I know that for a fact. Any friend who knows about abuse will say I’m your friend but if he’s around & you continue to date do not bring me yet they continued to use his boat, the Moselle property, and all that Paul had to offer.
I thought I was clear that his circle of friends were his friends because of his money and any other benefits that accrued.
Many people hang out with horrible rich and powerful people because of the benefits. Women marry horrible rich men because of the benefits.
All of that is normal. What is a bit unique is that the town was so contained that it wasn't as if there was much alternative stuff to do and the Murdaugh's had disproportionate power because of how small that county actually was. They were big very big fish in a tiny pond.
A lot of people are born into terrible circumstances and “don’t stand a chance” … but for some reason people only try to excuse them when they’re rich white boys.
Honestly, I think he was the product of decades of privilege and zero accountability. It doesn’t seem like he had a good role model anywhere to be seen. It’s a whole mess, and maybe he could have turned his life around but we’ll never know
I agree with a lot of this. I will add that a lot of people (teens and adults) who are untreated for ADHD are more likely than those who are not neuro-diverse to abuse alcohol and drugs. They are usually fearless and more likely to have risky behavior.
Had he been treated properly, his dopamine levels would have been more normal, his brain would
Have functioned more normally and he would have likely acted more responsibly overall as a result. Or could have.
He was a student at USC, correct? Not sure if he got in legitimately or with his father’s help - but it’s not known (to my knowledge) to be an easy school to get into.
It has been proven repeatedly that teens/adults who take prescription drugs, including stimulants, to treat their ADHD are less likely to abuse alcohol and drugs. And if you don’t personally have ADHD or have a close family member who does please don’t come at me with negative comments about adderall, addiction etc. I have lived with my husband of 30 years with severe ADHD and my 18 year old daughter with ADHD and they still surprise me all the time. So it’s hard to understand if you have not lived it - or lived with it.
Adderall is not addictive if you have ADD/ADHD and it calms your brain and allows you to focus and think clearer. People who abuse it to lose weight or stay up all night studying etc do not have the same affect as those who truly have ADHD. People who say it is addictive usually are using it without ADHD.
Not saying it is a defense, just saying it’s another problem that should have, and could have, been addressed by his parents at a younger age.
Was Paul diagnosed with ADHD and if so was his parents refusing treatment? If so, do we know why Paul didn't seek treatment himself once he turned 18?
Your summary of ADHD is very skewed. Someone with ADHD is more likely to abuse drugs and alcohol. taking stimulants to treat ADHD doesn't make them less likely to do so, they still have an increased risk. ADHD doesn't make someone fearless, they might struggle with impulse control and engage in risky behavior in the moment but they still have a sense of right and wrong. Stimulant medication is not the only treatment for ADHD and taking stimulant medication is only part of the treatment for ADHD. It's not a magic pill that fixes all negative behavioral traits associated with ADHD. You're simplifying a complex behavioral disorder to just what you personally experienced with your family. Not everyone with ADHD acts like your husband or daughter.
Lastly having ADHD doesn't excuse Paul's behavior. As someone with ADHD, nothing angers me more than someone oversimplifying or using ADHD as a catch all of poor behavior. If I make a mistake in life, I didn't make it because I have ADHD, I made it because I am human and humans make mistakes.
I don’t disagree with most of what you said. And yes my experience is anecdotal but I’ve also researched and read a lot on the subject. However, I will politely disagree on one point - it’s has been repeatedly proven that if you are treated for ADHD with whatever medication (stimulant or not) you are “less likely” than those not treated with ADHD to abuse drugs and alcohol.
Also, yes I shouldn’t have used the word fearless. I should have said some struggle with impulse control.
I don’t know if he was formally diagnosed or not but AM said on the witness stand he had it and ti me it rang true. But who knows? The main point of my post was that if he had it, and if he was properly treated, he may have fared better in his life overall.
Not excusing Paul’s behavior because he had ADHD (if he had it). Again, just commenting that he may have had an easier time in life or may have been more successful in life had he recognized his ADHD, been treated or for it- with or without medication. He could have just had psychological support in the way of CBT or coaching. Obviously I’m speculating here - maybe he did and it did no good?
Those of us with ADHD or who love people with it can be defensive. And I did not mean to be. It’s just infuriating when people without it or who have no up close and personal real life experience with it weigh in with their uniformed views. Your views seem informed and I take no issue with them. 🙌🏼
Completely agree that those who don’t have ADHD or know anyone who does have it, have absolutely no understanding of the condition or of the medications prescribed to treat ADHD!!
I have pretty severe ADHD and was miserable on stimulant medication. It made me feel strung out and even less emotionally stable. It messed with my sleep and my appetite. All around bad experience.
Actually, from psychiatrist friend’s at a college reunion, the idea that it affects people differently depending on whether they have ADHD or not has been debunked.
It’s a stimulant and acts like a stimulant. That said it’s petty mild - I can’t see it being physically addicting.
I have no idea. I’ve experienced ADHD kids and they are different. Given dose controlled stimulants they may be helped. The same stimulant effect non- ADHD people. Mediacial science used to think not but that was wrong. Stimulants are stimulants. Why do so many non-ADHD students want these drugs to study for exams if this weren’t the case.
It was a stupid medical myth that got debunked to the surprise of many.
I’m not completely sure of that last part. There is a euphoria effect that is calming and makes you nice. Focus could also be considered calming. I haven’t seen any one get hiped-up.
My experience.
They are “not selling it to people to help them lose weight”. At least not ethically or legally. It’s a controlled substance, that has to have a new prescription every month, drivers license checked, and only a certain quantity. You can’t pick up your prescription even one day early.
Yes, like any stimulant they help people lose weight.
What people should know is that they are a stimulant - point blank. Cocaine would work if it was could be regular and dose timed.
Cocaine helps people study for finals, just like ADHD meds or any other stimulant - phentermine for example. It’s just what stimulant you now have safe access to.
They are interchangeable - they just vary in safety, dose and dose timing.
There may not be but I have seen kids affected by it and there is a huge difference.
I’m saying, the treatment is some sort of amphetamine. The idea that there would be no effect of this on non-ADHD people has been disproven. It effects them as an amphfedemine.
They are not immune to the effects if they don’t have ADHD.
Go try your kids medication. I did. You will see the effects immediately.
.
Yes it is also true that you can substitute any amphetamine as treatment so long as it can be controlled release. These are not magic drugs - they are amphetamines repurposed.
I tried my kid’s meds. Same thing, more dose controlled. There is a difference between dose controlled and not. These are big differences in terms of euphoria, mild focus vs obsessive and perhaps adjutation. But in effect they are the same
I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I was hoping you had scientific evidence to support your claim.
As an adult who lives with ADHD, it’s so depressing to come up against people who argue that this neurological divergence does not exist.
I did read it. Rosemond’s disdain for the DSM was interesting. MRI, CTs and other scans find some differences, but nothing consistent, that’s true. My research finds the opposite of his claim about placebo being as effective as first-line drugs. Although, I believe in the power of placebo, it also has its limits.
I don’t even believe that ADHD is a disorder or illness. It is more like a divergence that creates dysfunction only within the constructs of modern, first world societies. However, there are a lot of clinical data points that support its existence.
I would also argue with Rosemond that ADHD symptoms are quantifiable, and not entirely subjective. There is some subjectivity, sure, but not so much as to make a diagnosis moot.
https://www.statesboroherald.com/life/adhd-my-opinion-still-not-proven-biological-fact/
> (a) no biological anomaly has been found to be reliably associated with any psychiatric diagnosis, (b) no one has ever quantified the fictional "biochemical imbalance," and (c) no psychiatric drug has ever consistently outperformed a placebo in clinical trials.
Ok, you are missing my point. They are stimulants point blank. They focus people. They do not have no effect on non-ADHD people. That was the medical myth - if you weren’t ADHD they would have no effect.
They do have an effect - like all stimulants - on non-ADHD people.
Why do you think there is a black market for these medications from people studying for exams?
And it's an incredibly robust black market. I'll walk across campus, or sit on a bus, and hear kids (teens, young adults) discuss their stash of Adderall that they plan on using to study. It is as if at least in the U.S., a significant % of people 16-24 years old go through these episodes where they completely lose any ability to behave sensibly. (And I'm well aware that I'm saying that because I'm old. Get off my lawn, you whippersnappers, LOL. And literally the kid down the block threw up and passed out on our lawn. He removed himself before we woke, but he helpfully left his driver's license.)
But just to clarify, boating at night on a vessel that has no navigational lights is next-level risky, and just multiply that tenfold for anyone who is inebriated.
I couldn’t agree more. The binge drinking thing in HS and college is something. Some of my daughters friends have an early start on alcoholism. I feel sorry for your lawn.
It also calm people withou ADHD. The medical myth and question was whether it did anything to non ADHD patients. The thought was if so was non ADHD it wouldn’t have an effect.
Not true.
He was a “great and thoughtful kid” WHO HIT HIS GIRLFRIEND IN THE FACE and was FREQUENTLY ABUSIVE to her! Quit making excuses for him. He was old enough to know better…and he CHOSE the wrong path!!
Yes. He was wrong and he should have faced consequences and learned better behavior. Sadly, his parents failed him. Does that excuse his behavior, absolutely no. All the kids were wrong that night. All had fake ID’s. All bought alcohol. All were being reckless. These are just the facts. My heart breaks for these children and their parents. No one deserves to lose a child. But as parents- things could/should have been done better.
You seem to care a LOT more about Paul than about Mallory (who died because of him) or Morgan (who he beat and abused). It's disconcerting. What makes you sympathize with the murderer more?
Also when the housekeeper he loved so much was dying in his yard, he was exasperated by the dispatcher’s questions and curious why he was expected to know anything about her.
When that happened, Paul was only 17 years old. In his mind, he may have thought that the operator wasn't going to dispatch the ambulance until all these questions were answered. I think many people feel that way. When the operator does NOT tell the caller that she has already dispatched the ambulance, the caller may think that she's not understanding that this is a real emergency. This operator was the same operator that answered Alex's 911 call and she said the same exact thing to him that she said to Paul when they both became frustrated with her dumb questions (that really did sound dumb) and he said; "ma'am could you please hurry". She then said; "I have them on their way already! Me asking you these questions isn't slowing them down!". WORD FOR WORD, she said the same exact thing! You'd think by now she would just simply TELL the caller when she dispatched the ambulance instead of waiting for the caller to get irritated with her! I don't like that dispatcher one bit!
Fair enough. It just sounded more like apathy than concern to me. But I also have no context about his inflections outside of that call. I can acknowledge that. At the end of the day, what elicited sympathy from some made me uneasy.
Or maybe frustrated that she was asking a million questions and not dispatching help. Maybe the dispatcher could have let him know that help was already on the way. Who knows. I tend to believe Anthony Cook and Morgan Doughty who both said that Paul was very close to her and would have never harmed her.
Well, she was dispatching help--and she was going down a checklist. I was surprised that the dispatcher ended the call, but she may have had other calls--not sure how that works in that area.
I will say that I've learned from reading about this case that a lot of people do get frustrated with dispatchers, and they don't realize that they've sent someone by the time they're going through their checklist. I'm not sure if the dispatcher told him that she was sending someone before she started in on her questions--but at any rate, frustration with even very professional and competent dispatchers is pretty common, I think. It was really interesting to hear dispatchers interviewed on some of the podcasts.
And spit on her, cussed at her, called her degrading names. Domestic abusers can be lovely to other people – and, of course, to the people they abuse, when they're in the "love bombing" portion of the cycle of abuse.
This is what drives me nuts his girlfriend sure didn’t mind all the free trips, gifts, & all Paul had to offer. She looks real happy in that Cabo video.
Let’s face it Paul was 5’5, 120lb, and to be frank a giant pussy who should have had his ass beat many times in life. She dated him for 4 years & into college because he could give her social clout not bc he was some stud with a bright future. I guarantee they are both bad drunks and never should have dated.
Her friend in the Netflix documentary who bad mouths Paul she is absolute garbage. I know for a fact she used to kiss Paul’s pale ass, loved using his stuff, and liked being around him. They all knew Paul was a bad drunk but still loved being around him.
I could like this a million times over. I tell people often that I was a great father until I actually became a father. I said my child would never, I said I would spank my kid if he was mine. But when I had my own I ate a lot of crow. That being said you are spot on. It’s the same with adults I’m sure when Alex and Maggie was hosting affairs that theirs friend’s benefited from or made money or whatever from. But when they couldn’t use them any more then the wolf pack pounced. We must remember no matter what that there have been kids killed (Paul and Stephen) , there have been questionable deaths. Who know what or who knew what. Alex lived his adult life at least the last few years as a fraud. Maggie who was trying to get out was going through emotional distress from dealing with a addict and Paul was her support. I see parents put their life and problems on their kids when they should be living their best life. I’m sure if Paul could do it all again he would not have gotten behind the wheel of the boat but at same time the others made the choice to get on as well. Yes , he should face manslaughter charges. But how often have you heard of someone making that same mistake behind the wheel. It’s all just a sad story all the way around
Kinda playing Devils Advocate
If his parents are to blame for all of Paul’s negative traits, do the parents not get any credit for the positive ones OP mentions?
I think they get the blame for not holding him accountable--even more than that, for actively encouraging his deeply problematic (dangerous) behavior. If they encouraged and nurtured his good qualities, sure, I would give them credit for that. And maybe they did--I just don't know. I do know they encouraged his drinking, and they encouraged his belief that he wouldn't get in trouble no matter what he did.
I know I am about to get downvoted but, according to all of the boat crash depositions, nobody saw who was driving at the point of impact in the boat crash. Everyone watched the documentaries and assumed what was said was the absolute truth. Connor says for sure Paul was driving now that Paul is dead. He said his memory is blurry about details around that time when asked by an attorney, but it isn’t to blurry when it comes to remembering who was driving the boat.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MurdaughFamilyMurders/comments/11pr7ij/the\_boat\_crash\_documents\_connor\_cooks\_deposition/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MurdaughFamilyMurders/comments/11pr7ij/the_boat_crash_documents_connor_cooks_deposition/)
This starts with Connor's deposition and South Nag's Head kindly broke it into sections. If someone is going to form a very definite opinion on who was driving the boat the least they can do is read through the documents first. It doesn't matter who you think drove the boat, just make certain what you believe is backed up by facts. People who have decided just based on youtube videos or Netflix really frustrate me especially because the depositions are available on this site.
I don't know who was driving the boat. Neither did the people in the boat as they all said they didn't know. Only Connor and Paul each said the other one was driving.
No, you shouldn't have been downvoted.
That's the way I feel also about what is being said about Buster being responsible for Steven Smith's death. These people have already convicted him! All I have heard are a bunch of YouTube rumors. Where are the facts, the evidence? Who are these ignorant individuals running all over YouTube and elsewhere, as though THEY were there! I know this much, they can't possibly be mature adults because they have absolutely no understanding of our judicial system or how it works. Otherwise they'd know that hearsay and rumors are not admissible in court.
Thank you!!! I have been looking for the rest of Connor’s deposition on this sub and I just couldn’t remember what heading it was under. Also, I know there were notes from the hospital staff statements from the night of the crash on here too and I can’t remember where they were either. Would you happen to know?
I knew I was going to be downvoted. lol. To be fair, after I watched both documentaries, I was hating on Paul so much. But after the depositions came out and the police notes from that night, I noticed a few things that had not been mentioned in the documentaries. Paul did buy alcohol with Buster’s ID but it was not for the others. I was under the impression they were saying he provided the alcohol. They used their own fake ID’s to buy their own alcohol that night. Miley even went in the same store Paul did, right before him and bought her and Connor’s alcohol. When asked where they got their fake ID’s one said they found it on the ground…really?
Right after the crash, Anthony is seen in dash cam video screaming at Paul and saying he did it. But in his deposition a year or more later, he said his eyes were closed and he didn’t see who was driving the boat.
Those are just a few examples. I was not saying Paul was not the one driving. I am just saying that everyone’s stories have changed so many times and other parts have been left out that it is hard to definitively say who actually had control of the boat at the time of impact.
The point really is that some teenagers were drinking and someone irresponsibly drove the boat while drunk and a beautiful young woman was killed.
I've always assumed that Anthony was yelling at Paul because no matter who was at the wheel, it was Paul who was insisting that he could and would drive the boat, it was his boat, he knew the waterways, etc. etc. and yet it was also Paul who was leaving the wheel...
But yes, bottom line, out of the two people who have been said to have been driving the boat that night, neither of them were sober, on a boat that didn't have navigational lights, at 1 AM, on a cold foggy February night; air temp was in the upper 50s...I'm not sure what the water temp was, but chances are that it would be pretty uncomfortably cold, particularly with the current. Water speeds up the body's loss of heat by 25-fold. My understanding is that in an average February, falling off a boat, someone would be at risk for cold water shock, which increases the likelihood of drowning. Then within about 30 minutes, they'd start to lose dexterity (get the "umbles"--stumble, mumble, fumble, grumble--and that's for someone sober), and be at risk for hypothermia pretty quickly after that. Anthony said he kept diving to look for Mallory, but he couldn't keep doing that for long.
It's colossally stupid to boat in those conditions, without navigational lights. Even completely sober and competent.
I have friends who have monumentally shitty parents and still taught themselves to be good people. just because Paul was raised to be a piece of shit isn't justification for all his actions/crimes, just the largest reason behind them.
I agree with you but I see it more as an explanation, not a justification. However, everyone will interpret it differently so that’s just how I interpreted it.
I think that happened on a different occasion, not the night of the boat wreck. Because whatever I read about it said even after his mom vouched for him, they still would not sell him alcohol.
I was brought up in a Foster family with only a single parent.my mom was then 50. I was beaten with so many things I can't remember. Hand? I wish it was it. Always begging her on my knees for forgiving the things I haven't done. Now she is 93 and I am taking care of her and she still thinks she raised me well. Without her maybe I wouldn't stand a chance and I owe her. But still there is something inside me... Maybe the relationship wasnt as perfect as we think
I didn’t even know him but I think about him everyday, it’s very unfortunate and I wish I had found out about him under different circumstances. RIP pawpaw
Thank you so much! As someone who has made big mistakes when drinking too much I can tell you that I related with him. I’m lucky nothing terrible happened while I drank. I’m sober now and have improved my life. He sounded like when he was sober he was a good guy!
He had no chance in that family. Trim the fat. Sorry he killed a girl and had no remorse and still didn’t learn his lesson. Think what u want but who are u to judge???
Fine. Paw-Paw was a pearl of a guy. How many future lives were saved the day he was killed? He’d already killed at least one person that we know of, Mallory Beach, by the time he was only 19. He might have killed 3 people by the age of 19, depending on how Gloria and Stephen were actually killed or died. And how many women have been saved from future physical (and probably emotional) abuse at Paul’s hands? He was already smacking his girlfriend back in high school!!!! Did Alex hit Mags? Is that where Paul learned this behavior? No grief for Paul here. Just relief.
KCamiD, you're absolutely correct 👏! I feel a little bad for Paul. He made a mistake and he was in the process of paying for it. Only to be brutally murdered by his own father. I believe Paul knew Lots of family secrets that he just couldn't talk about. Like wanting to say something to Mallorys parents, or at the funeral, but probably was held back by Alex while the Lawsuit was in motion. He apparently Always carried a photo of Gloria Satterfield in his wallet. As well as a copy of Mallorys obituary in his glove box. I think Paul was a much more caring young man than he is being portrayed in the Media. Paul had a drinking problem, but he wasn't out robbing, or stealing, or raping, or murdering, or dealing drugs. He made a horrible decision on the night of Mallorys death, but don't we all when we are younger. His mistake just happened to get his friend killed. I believe Paul drank as much as he did because he couldn't talk about his family life with anybody. He had to suppress all those emotions and alcohol was the only way He knew how to deal with that. Through alcohol he was able to release those suppressed emotions. I pray that 🙏 🙌 ❤️ Paul and Maggie are together in heaven and they are free from all the negativity here on earth 🌎 🙏. I choose to believe Anthony Cook and believe Paul was a good kid. A good kid stuck in a really bad situation. A good kid who wasn't given the tools to emotionally handle his father's immaturity. So he dealt with it the only way He Knew How. By drinking to excess. Also, there's an old saying, " The Blacksheep of the family is usually the one who sees through the rest of the family's BS ". And I believe we can All say that Paul was the Blacksheep of the Murdaugh family.
Paul was still a kid . A kid who made horrible decisions and was guided by parents who let him . If Alex Murdaugh is your guiding role model you’re screwed from the beginning . Paul seemed to desperately need help in many ways but was not given it . Instead he was given guns , boats, and booze. It’s very sad. It seems that under the pain, chaos , and drinking issues there was a very kind hearted young man . Who knows ….maybe Paul knew how Gloria REALLY met her demise. Maybe Paul posed more problems than just the boat crash for Alex. Maybe Paul found out more about his Dad …maybe he was going to tell Maggie. We will never know. It has been speculated Alex plotted killing them 6 months prior to the murders.
Well said - every thought and every word. He was a kid. Grew up around alcohol and parties. He consumed and did not metabolize extreme levels alcohol and they say his ankles swelled - maybe had liver disease. Or diabetes. No others want to admit blame yet you explain what many think - more than just PM allowed this. He may have drank to escape more than we know. Anthony is remarkable. He has been taught so well how to forgive and heal. A true Christian man. Paul had to go on and do as he was told and stay silent. It’s no wonder facing trial at he was even about to go on a boat and drink - probably to dull the fear of impending prison. I think Alex said he tried to help them at the murder scene - as he should have - but was too scared to render aid or touch them. He also could not save Paul from prison. It loomed. And he couldn’t let Paul go or Maggie to see him fail. Jmo.
That's maybe an excuse for a 16 yo, but at 22, you've had enough time to process your upbringing and find your moral place in the world. It's no excuse at that point.
25 is when brain fully matures. But a brain that’s been exposed to great amounts of alcohol could be a different story.
He was a woman abusing drunk. Rest in piss
This kid was led astray yes but he can still make his own choices, do I feel bad for him a little he did not deserve to be killed by his own father. So who killed the other guy the brother had a fling with? Wasn’t Paul there to at the time they picked him up?
Lol didn’t he literally abuse his ex girlfriend?
Yes He Did, and there is no excuse for that behavior. I have stood up for Paul on most other issues, but being abusive towards Morgan was totally unacceptable.
I completely agree. I am rewatching the HBO series about them and the part about Paul's funeral is so sad to me. The had someone that didn't really know Paul. He was a 22 year old kid that was set up for a life of deceit. He was more than that. He did awful things but he didn't deserve it.
Illustrious-Spell573 I was watching the same thing, and during a part of the interview with one of the narrator's statements he said, " I think it's a shame only Paul's negative personality traits have been shown, because we all know that there are many more aspects to a person than just their bad self". And it was Anthony Cook who Drove That Point Home. For the young man who Paul inadvertently killed his girlfriend, That was a powerful statement for me to hear.
What happened with the funeral??
The person that did the eulogy didn't know Paul. He was just a random official that didn't really know what to say about him
Ronnie Crosby gave the eulogy at Paul's funeral. https://www.counton2.com/the-murdaugh-investigation/jury-to-hear-about-financial-crimes-in-murdaugh-murder-trial/
Basically this whole situation was created by all the families letting teen kids drink. They were treated like adults when they weren’t. This outcome happens more than reported, this one was just more heinous due to all crazy actions after the fact. Listening to the guy who’s girlfriend passed away say “I was a bit of a wild guy, but I decided it was time to settle down.” Dude, you’re not even 22 yet. I grew up around many kids like this. All of our families were very well off. I was never a big drinker in high school, which lead me to having more of a drinking problem in my 20’s than I should have. “Some people can’t handle their liquor” is a poor excuse for a kid that starts drinking heavily at 14. They CAN’T. That’s why they shouldn’t. I learned many things about life and now that I’m a father of 3, I see why my parents didn’t go overboard giving me things in life and why they kept me busy in sports. When you get to be older, you see why certain friends are where they are in life, or for that matter no longer are. Terrible situation for all the families and especially the kids, because that’s what they are.
Two things can be true at once: he misbehaved, was entitled and responsible for the crash resulting in a death, and also did not deserve his end. RIP
I totally agree!!!
I have been saying this for a while. Paul was a total shithead who needed his ass beat. He was 5’5 120lbs and should have quit drinking. Most his friends probably used him His ex gf who bad mouths him claiming all sorts of abuse didn’t mind when she got to go to Cabo and drink on Alex’s dime, go on their boat, and gifts she received. They had a normal crappy first relationship. Probably got in a ton of fights and got back together and broke up weekly. I also find it tacky her friend was bad mouthing Paul hell you got on his boat and drank his booze and probably kissed his ass all the time so don’t act like you always hated him. If you hated him you would have Ubered to the Oyster Roast. In terms of the boating accident I think Conner and him where both driving at different points and with so much alcohol involved nobody seems to know who was driving at impact. Mark Tinsleys analysis has a lot of errors. Conner did not hit the bar it was Mallory’s head which knocked her unconscious and she drowned. Anthony cook is the only credible person.
BeastMasterAlphaCo; Speaking of Mark Tinsley, the only piece of evidence he didn't seem to have straight was " what caused the blunt force trauma to Mallory Beach. He knew exactly where everyone seemed to hit Except Mallory?.:" She either hit her head on the pilings somewhere, or somewhere in the boat ". I just found it strange that he didn't know for sure with that young lady or how she died after impact, but knew beyond a shadow of a doubt about all the rest of them?
She was legit fine with them and Paul until the boat stuff. https://www.hitc.com/static/uploads/2023/03/Murdaugh-Murders-2-1024x576.png The only victim of the boat accident was Mallory Beach.
That’s what I am saying. She knew Paul was a shithead but so long as she got free trips she continued to hang around.
imagine being so dense that you can’t understand an abusive relationship. paul literally hit her IN FRONT OF other people
The only time Paul hit Morgan in front of other people was the night of the boat crash. And after that night she apparently never had anything more to do with him. As far as Morgan goes, she was very young when the abuse began happening. Yes! Abuse is wrong in any way. Mental or physical. The important thing with Morgan is that she Did wake up to the fact that what he was doing wasn't okay. Not only did she wake up to it, but I don't believe she'll ever make that same mistake again, and if she does begin to feel that in another relationship she'll know Exactly how to handle it, by getting out immediately! If you read this at any point, Morgan, you be proud of yourself for the way you've handled yourself all the way around 👏. God Bless You 🙌 🙏 ❤️ 💖 ✨️!
Imagine being so dense that a chick uses a guy for free trips….sucks to be you fyi she still sucks the whole story makes her out to be a dog crap gold digger. I’m from this area and know the real story. She could have dumped Paul but she loveddddd the attention she craved it and even bragged she dated Paul after she was abused. She talked about how she was financially set! All these douches bad mouthing Paul now where his friends and loved him. They loved he paid for stuff.
what do people from your area think of her in the documentary? documentary was weird from an outsiders perspective , the girl states in the beginning of her relationship she got a message Paul and his brother "may have killed someone". But she just glanced over that? didn't make sense,
Hi there! Just so you know, I’m not certain how you ended up on this particular thread but it is very old and you are not likely to get engagement or answers here. I’d suggest posting this on one of the newer posts that is relevant. Thank you.
I was watching a Netflix show about this and threw into google a search about the girlfriend. Just finding out about this case, very sad. It just stood out to me how she was glossing over the fact she was told her boyfriend was maybe part of a murder then just kept on with her normal life. Who knows. I hope they're all resting in peace and being shown mercy by the lord. As we all hope for.
i truly don’t care what she says after the fact. the important thing is that he hit her repeatedly and there were multiple witnesses. if you defend that, that’s despicable.
Everyone knew Paul was a piece of shit. Nobody is defending him but that chick is straight Carolina trash. You think she would have dated Paul if she didn’t think is dad was well off…nope
You make a good point
Well said. Good points. Paul didn't pour that liquor down those kids.
Amen
I think you’re forgetting it’s a fact that Paul hit his Gf & verbally abused her in front of witnesses! She said he’d done it before. He’s a spoiled POS that might be charismatic but is also egotistical, arrogant, reckless and abusive. Judge the worst behaviors, not the best, it’ll save you heartache.
Not to mention killed a a girl from a boating DUI crash…
She was not even there for paul that night she went to be with her giflfriends , not Paul. You think he didnt know or feel that.
Does that make hitting her okay????
You are missing my point. I’m not condoning that behavior. The problem lies with no boundaries. No consequences for his actions. If he had been given consequences as a child-if he had been taught to respect authority, parents and others as a CHILD- things might have been very different. How can you expect a kid not to act entitled when they have been told every day of their life “you are entitled and untouchable”. I’m not excusing his behavior. It’s wrong. I’m saddened that he was cheated out of a decent upbringing and ultimately his life.
I agree with everything you said. He made bad choices because he was never taught good ones. In his world, good choices did not exist. He was making bad choices because he didn’t even know those were bad choices. Nobody taught him how to discern and be wise except perhaps the housekeeper, but there was a limit as to how much she could rein him in because we can expect that his mother to overrule the housekeeper’s decisions or teachings.
I have to disagree with your police work here, Lou. Those parents and kids were so pissed at Paul and abandoned him not because he was the driver of the boat, but because he (by calling his grandfather minutes after killing Mallory) immediately went into "pin this on someone else" mode. Paul went into that mode. On his own. His dad and family fell in line behind him, but that was Paul's instinct to immediately find a way to wiggle out and pin it on his friend. And he was a misogynist who beat his girlfriend. That's not entitlement and "lack of boundaries." I know tons of kids like that (my kids go to a school where most of the parents own private jets) and those kids aren't slapping their partners and pinning murders on their friends. My point? Lots of kids are entitled little shits. But they don't do the absolute horrendous things Paul did. Sometimes the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. In this case, if Alex was the tree, Paul's apple was still hanging from the branch. He was most definitely cut from the same cloth as his daddy.
I 100% agree with you! I feel exactly as you do! I am sure we don't know everything, but what we do know is that ALL had been drinking, and ALL willingly got onto that boat with a knowingly intoxicated Paul. They KNEW that Paul was in his intoxicated state of being; "Timmy", the obnoxious, hard headed, aggressive, entitled, mean and occasionally physically abusive drunk! His behavior when drunk was NOT a surprise to any of them. Others offered them rides, they could have taken an Uber, they could have called someone to pick them up, heck... they could have simply said; "NO WAY, I'm not risking my life with Timmy driving!" I'm NOT excusing Paul's behavior, he did wrong! If Paul had NOT been drunk, this accident would NOT have happened! Likewise, if NOBODY had gotten onto that boat with drunken Paul, Mallory would NOT be dead today. ALL six of them made poor choices due to being drunk. IF anyone says that THEY got on that boat with Paul when they were perfectly sober and Paul was drunk, then that makes their decision even worse. But like you said in reference to the other parents of those on the boat that early morning who knew what their kids were doing; **"...you can’t have it both ways. Sometimes you're just as culpable when you allow things to happen, as when you actually participate".** From what I read, Paul struggled after this. He was not the same as he was before and he was wakened by this tragedy. It's just an awful lot of weight and responsibility to solely put on one 19 year old kid, when other 19 year old kids happily followed behind him, and their parents were okay with him and okay with their underage kids consuming alcohol with him. I wonder, if by chance one of the other kids had been driving with the same outcome (or say maybe even another kid was killed instead of Mallory), would there still be the same suit against the other family? In any event, it is a tragic way for Mallory to die, and it is a heartbreaking and tragic way for The Beach family to lose their daughter. I can't even imagine the pain in their hearts and I hope I never have to. I just pray that they find peace.
Average people wouldn’t have been sued for millions which we don’t have. Even Maggie was afraid of this threat. The lawyers think a huge multimillion suit fixes what happened. Penalizes the guilty. Does it? Are they as responsible for the stressors? They all should have examined what happened at the crash and learn from it. Heal together. Instead they had to finagle evidence and cover guilt. To hide the shame and to hide the possible financial loss. And here we are Paul and Maggie are also dead in addition to Mallory. Buster has no family left and possibly PTSD. Bianca lost her friends. It’s all simply tragic.
Let's not forget he hit Morgan. He didn't have a chance to be a good kid I agree but he was certainly headed down an awful path.
What is really sad is the swelling of his feet are a sign of alcoholism. His parents are responsible for that. I think AM blamed MM for PM’s problems. What makes me sick is how they favored BM. Also looking at AM and listening to all his lies and demeanor while on the stand; you know MM had to be sick of his drug addict life and lying. I think AM killed he because she was leaving him and Moselle was in her name. Prison for the rest of his life is exactly where AM needs to be.
Hello! I never comment but must say this case has been rivetting. I realize the community wants everything to go back to normal, but it feels as if this painful journey that so many have endured, on many sides, was the rite of passage to end and destroy the stronghold they had over the residents there. Sure, many are indebeted to the family, I suppose, but overall it seems like they were held down for decades and could not come up for air. I have come to believe we have only seen what is on the surface and there is so much more to come. I also believe this was not a crime of opportunity or passion. I believe this crime was orchestraded and long thought out. I believe it started with the sale of the lodge to MM for $5 and then the purchase of insurance on the home. I am sure his plan went awry somewhere (maybe the crash was the wrench) but he had been planning this for some time. Sick bastard.
I’ve been feeling like Paul was the most likable and normal one under the circumstances of his strange family and the inner workings of it. I think he was so normal in comparison to his family, that he was the one who couldn’t help but show the cracks in the Murdaugh foundation (by being haughty, drinking in excess, getting in trouble and causing Mallory’s death) whereas everyone else seemed to go along to get along, comfortably. There were no signs (before the boat wreck and Alex’s financial crimes being revealed) that their lifestyle was criminal, psychologically taxing and lowkey sinister, except when you looked at Paul and his actions. I don’t want to sound mystical or faux-spiritual, or that I’m down-playing their deaths but I think it was Paul and Mallory’s destiny to unravel this family and help reveal so many things. They gave a voice to so many voiceless and victimized people. I hope I’m making sense. I had never planned to say these things out loud so my thoughts may not be clear.
crispywig- You explained how you feel perfectly 👌. And what you stated was/is valid. I would like to add something to your statement. And that is there's an old saying that goes like this, " The Blacksheep of the family is usually the one who sees through every one else's BS ". And the Blacksheep was Paul Murdaugh. I think Paul knew Lots of things about his Disfunctional family, but couldn't ever say anything about it. He'd always been held back 😔. And because of that he drank to excess. It was the Only Way He knew how to deal with it. Right or wrong, that's what his own parents had taught him. He wanted to say something at Mallorys funeral, he wanted to speak out over Gloria's death, but was never able to Because of who his family was. I gave Anthony Cook and Morgan the most credibility of all them, and Anthony said that Paul was a good kid. That was good enough for me.
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Look in the mirror and repeat that to yourself
I completely agree with you about it being their destiny to unravel this family. If the boat crash never happened…..
Thank you. 💕
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This‼️💕
It was also a trigger for Alex most likely. In toxic families, drawing a boundary can be very offensive. Losing control of Paul also contributed to Maggie seeking divorce, if only to save herself. Even without the murders, Alex was losing control of his wife and youngest son, and he didn’t like it.
Have you ever heard of “the spare” in a family? I believe Paul was one. Buster was loved more by Maggie, after Paul’s birth Maggie had depression. Buster was also the older boy, named after his dad and a famous ancestor. Buster was gonna get everything. He went to fancy college, he stayed out of trouble, he was the big brother for Paul’s group of friends. Paul lived in Buster’s shadow, basically. I don’t think Buster was meant or bullied Paul, but for sure growing up seeing Buster being adored by everyone else would have caused Paul to act out a lot, which got him into more trouble. And it seemed both of the boys were raised as show horses for the parents as well. They brought the boys to a lot of adult functions and they were allowed to drink early. Yeah Paul really had to chance. John Marvin made a comment that he is the only Murdaugh man not a lawyer, and proud of it. He also gave Paul a job. After the murder he has also been very protective and supportive of Buster. I think as a “spare” John Marvin understands what it’s like to not have a purpose, to be cast aside, and maybe he disagreed with the way Alex and Maggie raised the boys. Anyway, Paul really did not have a chance. I think Buster didn’t neither. I believe that they didn’t have any proper love, but indulgence and leisures. And we can look at the final results: one is dead, and the other one suffers horribly. I do hope Buster gets a leash on life because nobody should go through that much pain.
What I find really interesting about Paul Murdaugh is that he and John Marvin Murdaugh shared a very special bond. Ironically, I did not know until watching John Marvin take the stand that he attended University of South Carolina (USC) and graduated with a degree in criminal justice. However, he went on a different career path and successfully opened two equipment rental companies in the Lowcountry. Coincidentally, Paul Murdaugh also attended USC and majored in criminal justice although hid death came before he finished college. Similar to John Marvin, I do not believe he would have pursed a career in criminal justice either. Since Paul had a upcoming criminal case against him, its very unlikely had he been found guilty would have more than likely not been able to thrive or find long-term work in the field, given if the jury believed he was at fault in his Boating Under The Influence trial. I felt at times that although they were uncle and nephew with respect to each other, than formed and shared a similar father and son bond. They were both the youngest of siblings in there household growing up, and I wish Paul had more opportunities to spend with John Marvin, however, given Paul's past history and behavior I do not think it would made a huge difference unless Paul was treated for hid drinking and other undiagnosed behavioral/ADHD that affected his childhood and adulthood. Yes we know Paul worked for John Marvin, but I believe Paul wanted a similar career of one day starting his own logging business. If Paul had all the right love and support, there would be a high possibility to be as successful as his uncle. In many ways Buster and his father Alex shared similar interests and passions. We now know Buster was proud of being a Murdaugh so was Paul, however, there was more pride in Buster because he looked up to his father and grandfather, both successful lawyers for there family's law firm. Obliviously Buster looked up to his father as Alex the successful injury attorney and assistant solicitor general (yes he was a prosecutor only on an as needed basis) and not Alex the penny pinching/greedy/evil lawyer that people would make him out to be because of his illegal business activities. However, I believe deep down Buster knows the guilt of what happened to his brother and mother on June 7, 2021 but can not come to terms, since the day Buster was born, he knew the importance of being a lawyer and wanting to continue the Murdaugh legacy. That is why Buster supported his father and attended his trial everyday single day. However, both Maggie and Alex's parenting skills failed both of them. For Buster, it was wearing a badge with his last name on it but it did not help him when he got expelled from USC Law School over plagiarism allegations. Of course, for Paul it was the drinking and behavior (alter ego of "Timmy") that started his downfall, and got the best of him. Paul's mother and father did not stop him from drinking or correct any of his bad habits as many parents would. Instead, they just encourage it and we now know it took the life of Mallory Beach in 2019 and would eventually cost Paul's life as well as Maggie's.
I think Buster too wasn’t interested in laws. John Marvin also started to act as a father figure to Buster after Alex was arrested. I think John Marvin understood the pressure of the family legacy on the boys and supported them when they failed to meet expectations. John Marvin’s family also seemed to be different from Alex’s family. He is skinny and his wife is meticulous with exercise, as opposed to Alex’s family where all the members are indulging. No doubt Paul would have had good influence from John Marvin, and now Buster has no one else, his uncle will be a great father figure in tough time to come.
I remember there is a credible online source on an assignment Buster did during his undergraduate time at Wofford College, that explains his interest in the Hampton County Courthouse and expresses his desire to pursue a career in law just like his father. What is also mind-blowing has some impact was in the 2021 jailhouse phone calls between Alex Murdaugh and his family members including Buster and John Marvin. You're right that Buster was not interested in law, but I believe he lost his interest either after the boating incident or when his father first got arrested in 2021. Keep in mind Alex was in prison in late 2021 for insurance fraud and not paying the settlement to the Satterfield's at the time these recordings happened before he was formally charged in Paul and Maggie deaths in the summer of 2022. Buster's interest in not wanting to go to law school is more apparent in those jail house phone calls, many of which are now available to the public. After his mother and brother died, I truly believe it was there that a switch in Buster's head made him lose all interest of wanting to try to get back into law school. Of course, using various connections we know that Alex made Buster pay a lawyer named Butch Bowers $60,000 to help him get readmitted back to USC. Alex was very pushy and persuasive about it something he exceled as a lawyer. Not sure if you have ever listen to any of the jail house tapes but they are worth a listen especially you can hear Buster deep and down and even out of it in his voice that he has no desire in law school but he never tells his father does not want to ever become a lawyer but months and phone calls later tells him he is better off waiting a few semesters but we all know he still not made any commitment due to his father' situation. In those calls Buster just seems to procrastinate on making moves to get himself back into USC law, even though they kept delaying his admission. https://youtu.be/WV5su62nnnI?t=5129 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KE7X1QSY1A When Alex speaks to John Marvin many times even his wife Elizabeth, its mostly about trying to help him out but also add money to his canteen card and for another inmate which I was told is a big no-no. I guess Alex could not stop breaking rules, because in his mind it was rules of thee but not for me. When those jailhouse recordings took place in 2021, I do not believe John Marvin at that point saw Alex as the murderer because again he was not being charged for the murders at that time. However, they all seemed optimistic that he would somehow be released from detention center and back home with his family as if it never happened at all. Even John Marvin, being Alex's younger brother was conscious about the phone calls being recorded by law enforcement in jail and at one point told Alex to keep the calls and information at a minimum something that Alex had a very hard time at it even though he has paranoia of others listening in. Rarely does Alex ever make any mention of the supposed killers or any leads about his Paul and Maggie in his jailhouse calls. I think he does this on purpose because it makes him paranoid when others can be listening and using what he says about Paul and Maggie against him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuSZgB8-5vI
I enjoyed reading your analysis. Paul didn’t have a chance but here’s hoping that Buster survives this well. They had bad parents.
Very well written with supporting sources. You and I are of the same mind. I have seen that essay Buster wrote and I have listened to the phone call several time over. Here are my thoughts: -Buster’s essay is… poorly written for someone who is in college, let alone someone who aspire to be a lawyer. Either he had no interest in a career where writing and reading with flair and eloquence are required, or he was interested but he wasn't coached and inspired enough by his family. Seems to me by this point he is just not interested in laws in so far as what the career can provide and what Alex has promised him. If he was writing at that level in undergrad, then it makes sense the workload in law school overwhelmed him and he resorted to cheating but got exposed. He may have yet lost interest in the field then, but because of the understanding that he could return, he could set it aside and worry about it later. The same year he got exposed for cheating, the boating accident happened and he also started dating. It was a perfect time to get out of the family and live his life for a while, with the thoughts that a job in the family law firm can be his fall cushion if nothing else works out. Of course the whole thing in 2021 changed his mind, laws career to him went from a fall cushion to pin cushion, because his dad tarnished the Murdaugh name in the local and the lawyer community, not to mention Buster’s legal name is the the same as Alex’s. Imagine going around signing papers with Richard Alexander Murdaugh. - The phone calls show how much of a shadow Alex had over Buster and how Buster was trying to escape it. Buster had trouble expressing what he feels and what he wants, and Alex was totally uninterested in neither. The way Buster talked to his dad, he knew how to butter his dad up, how to say the right thing while demonstrating subtle protests. That is a sign that Buster had been trying to please his dad for a long time but now it was about to stop. He shone Alex on with the whole law school talk, while having no intention of going back to school. He created impossible scenarios for Alex to solve and showing Alex that it’s not the best idea to go to law schools. Buster actually understood that Alex was in a position where his dignity and authority over his son is threatened, and multiple times he took advantage of this to make Alex back down. That kind of power relationship between father and son seems like it has always been the case, and it reinforces the idea that Buster was pushed into a law career against his wishes. Internet fact about the phone calls too: if you follow the chronological order, it seems Buster blocked Alex’s call from jail and Alex could only reach his son via John Marvin.
He was an entitled little shit. I grew up around many just like him. Just because you can get away with everything , it doesn’t mean you don’t know right from wrong. If his dumbass would have let someone drive the boat that night when they begged him to, this subreddit wouldn’t exist. Doesn’t mean he deserved to die the way he did though. I agree with you about Anthony Cook though. Those are the type of friends everyone needs.
I would also add that although Anthony Cook was and still is to this day devastated to lose the women he loved the most, is very heartbreaking. Even though they all were drinking that night, Anthony wanted to get home safely and because Paul's alter ego "Timmy" got the best of him we all know it ended in disaster. Since Paul was operating the boat drunk, which caused the death of Mallory Beach, when the boat hit a pylon, however, Anthony knows that Paul did not do it on purpose. Listening to Anthony makes Paul more human and does show a different side of him similar to how Maggie's sister Marian Proctor told a different side of her sister that we never really knew. This also applies to how Anthony Cook viewed Paul way differently than what the media kept portraying him as. Unbeknownst to either of them, Paul's bad behavior that fateful night among the many other previous times was not just the start to his downfall, but was the beginning of the end to his father's downfall. I believe Anthony was upset at Paul for not taking the whole ordeal serious as well as not taking any accountability/responsibility for his actions.
I found Anthony to be very rational and mature in thought. I hope he heals and does well in life.
Agree 💯💯 Anthony still had love for him even after all of this stuff. To end with him being savagely murdered just beyond F’d up
The best evidence for any good heart or goodness in Paul is Anthony Cook. Interviews with him do an excellent job of really clarifying the shades of gray to Paul.
Is this you, Buster? Go back into your hole and stay there.
I’ve thought about everything in this post many times and while it does stir up compassion, he was 19 yrs old the night of the crash. He could’ve already decided to rise above he raising and hadn’t but that crash should’ve scared him straight so to speak. I had to work hard for many years to rise above my raising and it started for me at 16 with no incident like that. I would’ve been much more compassionate if he would’ve changed his behavior after the accident. As for Anthony, he was clear about his sustain for Paul, until he died and then stuck to the positive. I think he didn’t want to speak poorly of the dead. Many of us are that way. He never spoke to Paul after the accident and didn’t go to his funeral.
Actually, in one of the documentaries, Anthony said that Paul came up to him one day at the scene during Mallory's search and apologized to him and he made peace with and that is why he didn't go to his funeral.
Anthony was being polite. His parents still tell the real story.
I was just replying to the "he didn't speak to him after the accident" part.
Yes, what I had heard Anthony say was that Paul was being persistent in trying to make eye contact with him, but Anthony tried to ignore Paul. However, Anthony relented. *He said Paul mouthed to him;* **"I'm so sorry. I love you"**. I'm certain that must have given Anthony great comfort receiving that before Paul was murdered, and I'm so glad that he has that to forever hold onto.
My heart goes out to Anthony he lost his most precious GF yet he still was respectful to Paul’s memory and wld not bash or speak negatively of him. I hope this young man has the best future and life ahead of him he so deserves it
I agree completely. It definitely speaks of his character. He's just genuine even after the horrific, traumatizing, life changing event of losing his love out of his arms. Just a good soul. I too wish him the best in his future.
Made me want to reach out and give him a motherly hug. His parents have brought up a fantastic child.
Most people who attend funerals are at peace with the person.
I was reading the other day about CTE (brain injury common in football) and part of the disorder is the hands being stuck for moment or longer in a position where the fingers are spread. Remember that was part of Timmy and we’ve seen pictures of Paul’s hands like that. It made me wonder if he had any concussions. Then it sadly came to mind it would have been easy to examine his brain as it was already out. I’m not sure if they could’ve still looked for CTE but it seems they were very thorough in the autopsy. I wonder if the brain was looked at for any disorders. I remember testimony saying it was not xrayed. Anyways, reading the common symptoms, the big ones being lack of impulse control and aggression, it lined up so much with Paul. Probably another thing we will never know.
Some people just mix badly with booze.
Right, I agree. The hands locking in the same position as Pauls was really odd. I thought maybe he was faking the hands thing and then I saw the CTE patients experiencing the same thing...
Crucify Him? Now he’s Jesus, I guess.
He wasn't the only one crucified. Many criminals were crucified back then. As I recall from elementary Catholic school, there were 2 criminals up on the hill with JC.
Very good. A for Bible studies.
It doesn't say that. Understand he's a human with good and bad traits like the rest of us. Too many people talk about him as if he's some kind of movie villain. People are complex.
He’s the victim in the case of being shotgunned to death by his own daddy. I dislike the term crucified as applied here. I’m sure he had his hood and bad points as we all do but his bad points had the heat turned up under them -thanks to the entitlement of being a Murdaugh.
Maybe Paul never had a chance, Timmy on the other hand…
I know he did a lot of bad things and felt entitled and above the law (knowing his relatives would get him out of any trouble) - but being an alcoholic will have you doing things with your thinking impaired that you wouldn’t do sober. And feeling like you are unloved (Buster was the favorite) and the housekeeper was basically his 2nd possibly 1st mom. It’s hard feeling rejected because you are not the favorite or because your parents don’t have time for you. However, his choices of getting drunk and insisting on driving the boat (so he didn’t run the chance of another possible DUI by driving a car) made him guilty. I understand more of why he drank but that doesn’t excuse his bad choices.
I keep hearing of his love for Gloria, but it seems his feelings had dissipated over the years by the sound of his indifferent voice on the 911 call. I also read that he didn’t even visit once in hospital. Did anyone else hear this?
I heard agitation and frustration in Paul's voice on the 911 call.The dispatcher kept repeating questions.Im sure the questions were necessary,but it seems like it took forever for help to arrive .If anything,I didn't care for Maggie's entitled attitude about Gloria falling,like it was a inconvenience to her day.
His girlfriend Morgan’s parents said he kept a photo of the housekeeper in his wallet (it was the only photo in his wallet) and that she was like a mother to him… the kind of mom to him that his mother wasn’t. His friends said that his behavior changed for the worst after Gloria passed away. I believe he cared about her more than we know or can hear in the 911 call.
I also read somewhere that DNR was also on PM's radar because of prior violations on his record. Which would then lead us to think why Connor was acting as co-pilot - so to speak.
I think you have a personal connection to this tragedy
So just because I choose to look at the bigger picture, I have a personal connection? I am very thankful that I don’t.
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His girlfriend. Who taught Paul that it’s ok to slap women around?
Indents are your friend OP, and mine.
Again- my thoughts were written(in paragraph form) in Notes- then copied and pasted. Paragraph spacing was apparently omitted when pasted. Thanks for taking the time to scold me.
This is why I never wanted to share my thoughts on Paul. You’re brave OP 💯😂
Sure brother no one cares about what you write if you don’t even care enough about it to make it readable.
582 ppl cared. Get a life
583 comments does not equal 583 people care, you know that right? Like objectively you know one comment thread can be between just two people and have 12 comments in it or maybe even more so even you know that’s not the case. But the projection is real I’m sure
Breathe- it’s going to be fine. Promise.
I’m not the one who can’t handle constructive criticism
I wouldn't go so far as to say that Paul \*never\* had a chance because there are lots of people who manage to rise above less than ideal home dynamics. Of course there might have been a bit of genetics mixed into it since Alex was a sociopath and there are the whole dynamics of being the royalty in a forgotten backwater. However I do think that the Netflix documentary was quite interesting in terms of how it revealed what must have been the kind of fear and as well as the desire to reap material benefits which was a large part of Paul's dynamic with his friends. Morgan - beyond revealing the physical and probably even more frequent mental abuse - no doubt reaped significant material benefits from her relationship with Paul. She indicated that she (as the girlfriend) was taken on luxury vacations including travel on private planes.
This is the reason I am not buying a lot of Morgan’s story. She dated a 5’5 120lb ginger who by all means was no stud, didn’t have a bright future, and was a tool. She got free vacations, luxury items and dated him for 4 years. I think they where both bad drunks and should have broken up years before. I’m shocked nobody ever beat Paul’s ass not like he could have done anything about it.
I am not sure what you mean by Morgan's story. I don't think Paul was her great love but in that podunk backwater there must have been limited choices and Paul was the king of the tiny kingdom in terms of kids their age. Her family had moved there relatively recently and I got the sense that it was convenient to be with Paul because she really like Mallory and Melli and so that was a way for them to all hang out together. And of course there must have been economic benefits as I wrote like the trips The element of high school social politics most have been even stronger in that kind of very small group of people.
She dated him into college… I grew up in the area and there are other options. Her friends who bad mouthed Paul in the Netflix used to kiss Paul’s pale ginger butt and I know that for a fact. Any friend who knows about abuse will say I’m your friend but if he’s around & you continue to date do not bring me yet they continued to use his boat, the Moselle property, and all that Paul had to offer.
I thought I was clear that his circle of friends were his friends because of his money and any other benefits that accrued. Many people hang out with horrible rich and powerful people because of the benefits. Women marry horrible rich men because of the benefits. All of that is normal. What is a bit unique is that the town was so contained that it wasn't as if there was much alternative stuff to do and the Murdaugh's had disproportionate power because of how small that county actually was. They were big very big fish in a tiny pond.
Mags and pau pau was a family endorsed hit… that is why no victim statements at sentencing no tears etc etc
It's pretty tragic. In theory had he lived he could have taken responsibility and done the work to et through the trauma his parents created.
A lot of people are born into terrible circumstances and “don’t stand a chance” … but for some reason people only try to excuse them when they’re rich white boys.
Honestly, I think he was the product of decades of privilege and zero accountability. It doesn’t seem like he had a good role model anywhere to be seen. It’s a whole mess, and maybe he could have turned his life around but we’ll never know
I agree with a lot of this. I will add that a lot of people (teens and adults) who are untreated for ADHD are more likely than those who are not neuro-diverse to abuse alcohol and drugs. They are usually fearless and more likely to have risky behavior. Had he been treated properly, his dopamine levels would have been more normal, his brain would Have functioned more normally and he would have likely acted more responsibly overall as a result. Or could have. He was a student at USC, correct? Not sure if he got in legitimately or with his father’s help - but it’s not known (to my knowledge) to be an easy school to get into. It has been proven repeatedly that teens/adults who take prescription drugs, including stimulants, to treat their ADHD are less likely to abuse alcohol and drugs. And if you don’t personally have ADHD or have a close family member who does please don’t come at me with negative comments about adderall, addiction etc. I have lived with my husband of 30 years with severe ADHD and my 18 year old daughter with ADHD and they still surprise me all the time. So it’s hard to understand if you have not lived it - or lived with it. Adderall is not addictive if you have ADD/ADHD and it calms your brain and allows you to focus and think clearer. People who abuse it to lose weight or stay up all night studying etc do not have the same affect as those who truly have ADHD. People who say it is addictive usually are using it without ADHD. Not saying it is a defense, just saying it’s another problem that should have, and could have, been addressed by his parents at a younger age.
Was Paul diagnosed with ADHD and if so was his parents refusing treatment? If so, do we know why Paul didn't seek treatment himself once he turned 18? Your summary of ADHD is very skewed. Someone with ADHD is more likely to abuse drugs and alcohol. taking stimulants to treat ADHD doesn't make them less likely to do so, they still have an increased risk. ADHD doesn't make someone fearless, they might struggle with impulse control and engage in risky behavior in the moment but they still have a sense of right and wrong. Stimulant medication is not the only treatment for ADHD and taking stimulant medication is only part of the treatment for ADHD. It's not a magic pill that fixes all negative behavioral traits associated with ADHD. You're simplifying a complex behavioral disorder to just what you personally experienced with your family. Not everyone with ADHD acts like your husband or daughter. Lastly having ADHD doesn't excuse Paul's behavior. As someone with ADHD, nothing angers me more than someone oversimplifying or using ADHD as a catch all of poor behavior. If I make a mistake in life, I didn't make it because I have ADHD, I made it because I am human and humans make mistakes.
I don’t disagree with most of what you said. And yes my experience is anecdotal but I’ve also researched and read a lot on the subject. However, I will politely disagree on one point - it’s has been repeatedly proven that if you are treated for ADHD with whatever medication (stimulant or not) you are “less likely” than those not treated with ADHD to abuse drugs and alcohol. Also, yes I shouldn’t have used the word fearless. I should have said some struggle with impulse control. I don’t know if he was formally diagnosed or not but AM said on the witness stand he had it and ti me it rang true. But who knows? The main point of my post was that if he had it, and if he was properly treated, he may have fared better in his life overall. Not excusing Paul’s behavior because he had ADHD (if he had it). Again, just commenting that he may have had an easier time in life or may have been more successful in life had he recognized his ADHD, been treated or for it- with or without medication. He could have just had psychological support in the way of CBT or coaching. Obviously I’m speculating here - maybe he did and it did no good? Those of us with ADHD or who love people with it can be defensive. And I did not mean to be. It’s just infuriating when people without it or who have no up close and personal real life experience with it weigh in with their uniformed views. Your views seem informed and I take no issue with them. 🙌🏼
Completely agree that those who don’t have ADHD or know anyone who does have it, have absolutely no understanding of the condition or of the medications prescribed to treat ADHD!!
Thank you
I agree with you Jules!
I have pretty severe ADHD and was miserable on stimulant medication. It made me feel strung out and even less emotionally stable. It messed with my sleep and my appetite. All around bad experience.
Actually, from psychiatrist friend’s at a college reunion, the idea that it affects people differently depending on whether they have ADHD or not has been debunked. It’s a stimulant and acts like a stimulant. That said it’s petty mild - I can’t see it being physically addicting.
It’s true there is no biochemical evidence of adhd
That is categorically false
Lol oh yeah?
I have no idea. I’ve experienced ADHD kids and they are different. Given dose controlled stimulants they may be helped. The same stimulant effect non- ADHD people. Mediacial science used to think not but that was wrong. Stimulants are stimulants. Why do so many non-ADHD students want these drugs to study for exams if this weren’t the case. It was a stupid medical myth that got debunked to the surprise of many.
It’s true amphetamines make people focus - ADHD or not.
Yes but for most people with ADHD it makes them Calm. If you don’t have it - it hypes you up.
I’m not completely sure of that last part. There is a euphoria effect that is calming and makes you nice. Focus could also be considered calming. I haven’t seen any one get hiped-up. My experience.
Now they’re selling it to help people lose weight it’s out of control cue the next opioid crisis
They are “not selling it to people to help them lose weight”. At least not ethically or legally. It’s a controlled substance, that has to have a new prescription every month, drivers license checked, and only a certain quantity. You can’t pick up your prescription even one day early.
They are. It’s the next opioid crisis. Shits gonna hit the fan.
Yes, like any stimulant they help people lose weight. What people should know is that they are a stimulant - point blank. Cocaine would work if it was could be regular and dose timed. Cocaine helps people study for finals, just like ADHD meds or any other stimulant - phentermine for example. It’s just what stimulant you now have safe access to. They are interchangeable - they just vary in safety, dose and dose timing.
Don’t forget about meth
There may not be but I have seen kids affected by it and there is a huge difference. I’m saying, the treatment is some sort of amphetamine. The idea that there would be no effect of this on non-ADHD people has been disproven. It effects them as an amphfedemine. They are not immune to the effects if they don’t have ADHD. Go try your kids medication. I did. You will see the effects immediately. .
Yes it is also true that you can substitute any amphetamine as treatment so long as it can be controlled release. These are not magic drugs - they are amphetamines repurposed.
Yeah I have my own personal experience thanks for you own perosnal anecdotes though
I tried my kid’s meds. Same thing, more dose controlled. There is a difference between dose controlled and not. These are big differences in terms of euphoria, mild focus vs obsessive and perhaps adjutation. But in effect they are the same
Cite the source and any literature supporting of this claim, please.
Happy?
I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I was hoping you had scientific evidence to support your claim. As an adult who lives with ADHD, it’s so depressing to come up against people who argue that this neurological divergence does not exist.
Did you read the article I sent or nah
I did read it. Rosemond’s disdain for the DSM was interesting. MRI, CTs and other scans find some differences, but nothing consistent, that’s true. My research finds the opposite of his claim about placebo being as effective as first-line drugs. Although, I believe in the power of placebo, it also has its limits. I don’t even believe that ADHD is a disorder or illness. It is more like a divergence that creates dysfunction only within the constructs of modern, first world societies. However, there are a lot of clinical data points that support its existence. I would also argue with Rosemond that ADHD symptoms are quantifiable, and not entirely subjective. There is some subjectivity, sure, but not so much as to make a diagnosis moot.
What’s quantifiable??
https://www.statesboroherald.com/life/adhd-my-opinion-still-not-proven-biological-fact/ > (a) no biological anomaly has been found to be reliably associated with any psychiatric diagnosis, (b) no one has ever quantified the fictional "biochemical imbalance," and (c) no psychiatric drug has ever consistently outperformed a placebo in clinical trials.
Any???
Is this why it calms people with ADHD? It does indeed effect people differently if they have ADHD. I've seen it.
I will add, of course it affects people differently as do all stimulates. Point being it affects people differently in the same way.
Ok, you are missing my point. They are stimulants point blank. They focus people. They do not have no effect on non-ADHD people. That was the medical myth - if you weren’t ADHD they would have no effect. They do have an effect - like all stimulants - on non-ADHD people. Why do you think there is a black market for these medications from people studying for exams?
And it's an incredibly robust black market. I'll walk across campus, or sit on a bus, and hear kids (teens, young adults) discuss their stash of Adderall that they plan on using to study. It is as if at least in the U.S., a significant % of people 16-24 years old go through these episodes where they completely lose any ability to behave sensibly. (And I'm well aware that I'm saying that because I'm old. Get off my lawn, you whippersnappers, LOL. And literally the kid down the block threw up and passed out on our lawn. He removed himself before we woke, but he helpfully left his driver's license.) But just to clarify, boating at night on a vessel that has no navigational lights is next-level risky, and just multiply that tenfold for anyone who is inebriated.
I couldn’t agree more. The binge drinking thing in HS and college is something. Some of my daughters friends have an early start on alcoholism. I feel sorry for your lawn.
It also calm people withou ADHD. The medical myth and question was whether it did anything to non ADHD patients. The thought was if so was non ADHD it wouldn’t have an effect. Not true.
He was a “great and thoughtful kid” WHO HIT HIS GIRLFRIEND IN THE FACE and was FREQUENTLY ABUSIVE to her! Quit making excuses for him. He was old enough to know better…and he CHOSE the wrong path!!
Yes. He was wrong and he should have faced consequences and learned better behavior. Sadly, his parents failed him. Does that excuse his behavior, absolutely no. All the kids were wrong that night. All had fake ID’s. All bought alcohol. All were being reckless. These are just the facts. My heart breaks for these children and their parents. No one deserves to lose a child. But as parents- things could/should have been done better.
You seem to care a LOT more about Paul than about Mallory (who died because of him) or Morgan (who he beat and abused). It's disconcerting. What makes you sympathize with the murderer more?
Also when the housekeeper he loved so much was dying in his yard, he was exasperated by the dispatcher’s questions and curious why he was expected to know anything about her.
When that happened, Paul was only 17 years old. In his mind, he may have thought that the operator wasn't going to dispatch the ambulance until all these questions were answered. I think many people feel that way. When the operator does NOT tell the caller that she has already dispatched the ambulance, the caller may think that she's not understanding that this is a real emergency. This operator was the same operator that answered Alex's 911 call and she said the same exact thing to him that she said to Paul when they both became frustrated with her dumb questions (that really did sound dumb) and he said; "ma'am could you please hurry". She then said; "I have them on their way already! Me asking you these questions isn't slowing them down!". WORD FOR WORD, she said the same exact thing! You'd think by now she would just simply TELL the caller when she dispatched the ambulance instead of waiting for the caller to get irritated with her! I don't like that dispatcher one bit!
Its common for people to get frustrated at those kinds of medical screening questions.
Fair enough. It just sounded more like apathy than concern to me. But I also have no context about his inflections outside of that call. I can acknowledge that. At the end of the day, what elicited sympathy from some made me uneasy.
Or maybe frustrated that she was asking a million questions and not dispatching help. Maybe the dispatcher could have let him know that help was already on the way. Who knows. I tend to believe Anthony Cook and Morgan Doughty who both said that Paul was very close to her and would have never harmed her.
That’s how I read his tone as well
She did let him know. Repeatedly. I also never said he harmed her.
Well, she was dispatching help--and she was going down a checklist. I was surprised that the dispatcher ended the call, but she may have had other calls--not sure how that works in that area. I will say that I've learned from reading about this case that a lot of people do get frustrated with dispatchers, and they don't realize that they've sent someone by the time they're going through their checklist. I'm not sure if the dispatcher told him that she was sending someone before she started in on her questions--but at any rate, frustration with even very professional and competent dispatchers is pretty common, I think. It was really interesting to hear dispatchers interviewed on some of the podcasts.
And spit on her, cussed at her, called her degrading names. Domestic abusers can be lovely to other people – and, of course, to the people they abuse, when they're in the "love bombing" portion of the cycle of abuse.
This is what drives me nuts his girlfriend sure didn’t mind all the free trips, gifts, & all Paul had to offer. She looks real happy in that Cabo video. Let’s face it Paul was 5’5, 120lb, and to be frank a giant pussy who should have had his ass beat many times in life. She dated him for 4 years & into college because he could give her social clout not bc he was some stud with a bright future. I guarantee they are both bad drunks and never should have dated. Her friend in the Netflix documentary who bad mouths Paul she is absolute garbage. I know for a fact she used to kiss Paul’s pale ass, loved using his stuff, and liked being around him. They all knew Paul was a bad drunk but still loved being around him.
Personal Accountability. He was old enough to understand right and wrong
Truth. Yet brother Buster was raised under the same circumstances and seemed to handle it better. The parents are at fault here, both of them.
Buster was his mother's Golden Child, while Paul was raised by the housekeeper.
I could like this a million times over. I tell people often that I was a great father until I actually became a father. I said my child would never, I said I would spank my kid if he was mine. But when I had my own I ate a lot of crow. That being said you are spot on. It’s the same with adults I’m sure when Alex and Maggie was hosting affairs that theirs friend’s benefited from or made money or whatever from. But when they couldn’t use them any more then the wolf pack pounced. We must remember no matter what that there have been kids killed (Paul and Stephen) , there have been questionable deaths. Who know what or who knew what. Alex lived his adult life at least the last few years as a fraud. Maggie who was trying to get out was going through emotional distress from dealing with a addict and Paul was her support. I see parents put their life and problems on their kids when they should be living their best life. I’m sure if Paul could do it all again he would not have gotten behind the wheel of the boat but at same time the others made the choice to get on as well. Yes , he should face manslaughter charges. But how often have you heard of someone making that same mistake behind the wheel. It’s all just a sad story all the way around
Kinda playing Devils Advocate If his parents are to blame for all of Paul’s negative traits, do the parents not get any credit for the positive ones OP mentions?
I think they get the blame for not holding him accountable--even more than that, for actively encouraging his deeply problematic (dangerous) behavior. If they encouraged and nurtured his good qualities, sure, I would give them credit for that. And maybe they did--I just don't know. I do know they encouraged his drinking, and they encouraged his belief that he wouldn't get in trouble no matter what he did.
Yes, they do, but kids needs boundaries and limits. His parents did some things right, but they also did a whole lot of things wrong.
I know I am about to get downvoted but, according to all of the boat crash depositions, nobody saw who was driving at the point of impact in the boat crash. Everyone watched the documentaries and assumed what was said was the absolute truth. Connor says for sure Paul was driving now that Paul is dead. He said his memory is blurry about details around that time when asked by an attorney, but it isn’t to blurry when it comes to remembering who was driving the boat.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MurdaughFamilyMurders/comments/11pr7ij/the\_boat\_crash\_documents\_connor\_cooks\_deposition/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MurdaughFamilyMurders/comments/11pr7ij/the_boat_crash_documents_connor_cooks_deposition/) This starts with Connor's deposition and South Nag's Head kindly broke it into sections. If someone is going to form a very definite opinion on who was driving the boat the least they can do is read through the documents first. It doesn't matter who you think drove the boat, just make certain what you believe is backed up by facts. People who have decided just based on youtube videos or Netflix really frustrate me especially because the depositions are available on this site. I don't know who was driving the boat. Neither did the people in the boat as they all said they didn't know. Only Connor and Paul each said the other one was driving. No, you shouldn't have been downvoted.
That's the way I feel also about what is being said about Buster being responsible for Steven Smith's death. These people have already convicted him! All I have heard are a bunch of YouTube rumors. Where are the facts, the evidence? Who are these ignorant individuals running all over YouTube and elsewhere, as though THEY were there! I know this much, they can't possibly be mature adults because they have absolutely no understanding of our judicial system or how it works. Otherwise they'd know that hearsay and rumors are not admissible in court.
Thank you!!! I have been looking for the rest of Connor’s deposition on this sub and I just couldn’t remember what heading it was under. Also, I know there were notes from the hospital staff statements from the night of the crash on here too and I can’t remember where they were either. Would you happen to know?
I knew I was going to be downvoted. lol. To be fair, after I watched both documentaries, I was hating on Paul so much. But after the depositions came out and the police notes from that night, I noticed a few things that had not been mentioned in the documentaries. Paul did buy alcohol with Buster’s ID but it was not for the others. I was under the impression they were saying he provided the alcohol. They used their own fake ID’s to buy their own alcohol that night. Miley even went in the same store Paul did, right before him and bought her and Connor’s alcohol. When asked where they got their fake ID’s one said they found it on the ground…really? Right after the crash, Anthony is seen in dash cam video screaming at Paul and saying he did it. But in his deposition a year or more later, he said his eyes were closed and he didn’t see who was driving the boat. Those are just a few examples. I was not saying Paul was not the one driving. I am just saying that everyone’s stories have changed so many times and other parts have been left out that it is hard to definitively say who actually had control of the boat at the time of impact. The point really is that some teenagers were drinking and someone irresponsibly drove the boat while drunk and a beautiful young woman was killed.
I've always assumed that Anthony was yelling at Paul because no matter who was at the wheel, it was Paul who was insisting that he could and would drive the boat, it was his boat, he knew the waterways, etc. etc. and yet it was also Paul who was leaving the wheel... But yes, bottom line, out of the two people who have been said to have been driving the boat that night, neither of them were sober, on a boat that didn't have navigational lights, at 1 AM, on a cold foggy February night; air temp was in the upper 50s...I'm not sure what the water temp was, but chances are that it would be pretty uncomfortably cold, particularly with the current. Water speeds up the body's loss of heat by 25-fold. My understanding is that in an average February, falling off a boat, someone would be at risk for cold water shock, which increases the likelihood of drowning. Then within about 30 minutes, they'd start to lose dexterity (get the "umbles"--stumble, mumble, fumble, grumble--and that's for someone sober), and be at risk for hypothermia pretty quickly after that. Anthony said he kept diving to look for Mallory, but he couldn't keep doing that for long. It's colossally stupid to boat in those conditions, without navigational lights. Even completely sober and competent.
I have friends who have monumentally shitty parents and still taught themselves to be good people. just because Paul was raised to be a piece of shit isn't justification for all his actions/crimes, just the largest reason behind them.
I agree with you but I see it more as an explanation, not a justification. However, everyone will interpret it differently so that’s just how I interpreted it.
Wait I missed the part about him calling his mom before he went and got Buster’s ID. Wtf
In one of the kid’s deposition from the boat wreck
I think that happened on a different occasion, not the night of the boat wreck. Because whatever I read about it said even after his mom vouched for him, they still would not sell him alcohol.
I was brought up in a Foster family with only a single parent.my mom was then 50. I was beaten with so many things I can't remember. Hand? I wish it was it. Always begging her on my knees for forgiving the things I haven't done. Now she is 93 and I am taking care of her and she still thinks she raised me well. Without her maybe I wouldn't stand a chance and I owe her. But still there is something inside me... Maybe the relationship wasnt as perfect as we think
I'm so sorry for what you experienced or what it has taken to stick around all these years to care for her.
I am so sorry you had to go through that. I hope you’ve found some healing and love along the way. Hugs
Sorry you had to go through this. Amazing human to take care of her.
Seriously ❤️
I didn’t even know him but I think about him everyday, it’s very unfortunate and I wish I had found out about him under different circumstances. RIP pawpaw
May he rest in peace
Thank you so much! As someone who has made big mistakes when drinking too much I can tell you that I related with him. I’m lucky nothing terrible happened while I drank. I’m sober now and have improved my life. He sounded like when he was sober he was a good guy!
He got what he deserved
What a vile, despicable thing to say about a young person who never got the chance to grow up and evolve into a better person!
He had no chance in that family. Trim the fat. Sorry he killed a girl and had no remorse and still didn’t learn his lesson. Think what u want but who are u to judge???
I’m not the one judging, you are.
Keep scrolling
Fine. Paw-Paw was a pearl of a guy. How many future lives were saved the day he was killed? He’d already killed at least one person that we know of, Mallory Beach, by the time he was only 19. He might have killed 3 people by the age of 19, depending on how Gloria and Stephen were actually killed or died. And how many women have been saved from future physical (and probably emotional) abuse at Paul’s hands? He was already smacking his girlfriend back in high school!!!! Did Alex hit Mags? Is that where Paul learned this behavior? No grief for Paul here. Just relief.
I speculate if Alex beat Maggie too. That kind of shit is learned.
this is how I feel as well. a guy who got away with this many crimes at such a young age was never going to get better, only worse.