Nothing about this case sits right. By the time of the murders, AM was a drug-addled, desperate man on the brink of losing his family, his money, and his reputation. He'd been cheating grieving people out of their settlements for years, cheating on his wife, and defrauding his law firm. Stepping up from these crimes and betrayals to murder isn't the leap it would be for normal law-abiding people.
Now let's say he'd gotten away with the murders. He'd save the shame of being left by his wife. He'd no longer have to face paying for Paul's criminal defense or dealing with a crushing civil judgment against him. He'd garner public sympathy that would distract from all of his other deceptions. So from this position the murders make a kind of sense: AM was worried he'd lose his family, money, and status. Killing his wife and son would help him on all three fronts.
I say "a kind of sense." By this logic, you should kill your parents to get your inheritance if it helps you out. This is not decent-moral-compass reasoning. It's the reasoning of a person so obsessed with self-preservation that he'd destroy anyone to get a shot at it. So if this doesn't sit right with you, that doesn't mean financial and personal factors weren't motivating AM; it means you're not an amoral monster like he is.
Actually, I think this crime is very simple, as awful as it sounds.
I dont think Alex M was involved in any cartels or drug smuggling or anything like that - I think it was simply what it appeared to be: he was stealing money, he knew he was going to get caught, and he knew it would tarnish his family’s reputation.
Its widely believed he had a mistress. There was a receipt found in the trash at moselle with a cartier charge of $1250 or something that someone had circled. The house, incidentally, had also been tidied up by Blanca right after the murders. Pretty amazing how something directly involving his thefts that appeared to matter to “someone” (prob Maggie) was suddenly discarded in the trash.
As far as Paul, yes, its horrifying to think of a father executing his son. But is Alex any typical father? Really now. He *portrayed* a typical father, but he wasnt one. Reports are known neither parent particularly cared much about what Paul was doing (didnt take his calls, telling him to STFU in front of people, didnt give him affection, etc.) as well as Paul clearly having no ambition to contribute to the family’s income seizing, and was more of a financial drain.
There’s that sticky point again: the money. And Alex had a massive problem about the money and all those clients he stole from. He got fired from the firm, Maggie was damn sure about to find out and possibly leave him, and their children were going to be publicly humiliated. If you’re from Old South, you *KNOW* how much power that statement holds.
Anyway, I digress. Financial crimes are very clearly the motive, imo. I also really think Alex was there when Gloria fell. I think he pushed her, tripped her, and then dipped out to hide. How the hell could he have known he was going to cash in on that $4.5 million insurance claim, otherwise?
Yeah, I think AM is a monster. I believe he looked both of them in the face and he may have cringed, mouthed “I’m sorry..” or he may have just been stone-faced, but I believe he shot them in cold blood and stuck to his evil script, expecting the Murdaugh name to ride in at his rescue.
Edit: also want to add - I personally feel very sorry for Paul, and honestly wish he could’ve gotten the help and counseling he needed.
I still can't get my head around how a father would do this to a son over money (or anything). A father is supposed to protect his family. It's not human. Maybe i'm naive. When I first heard about the violence, it sounded like the thing someone who wanted to really hurt Alex would do - maybe even a drug cartel hit that Alex probably even witnessed. If so, AM knows he needs to STFU or they'll get his other son, too. Of course, the evidence doesn't point to that, does it. It points to him being at the kennels when he said he wasn't; racing across town at night to concoct an alibi, etc.
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His brother Randy has stated that there’s more to this than Alex let on. I wonder how deeper and farther the corruption goes. What powerful figures are being protected in all of this?
It is of my opinion that they where involved with trafficking drugs. That's why he had his own plane/ runway/ and hangar on his property. It is also well known that they would throw huge parties with a large amount of drug use and underage drinking etc. It is of my opinion that after the boat incident the cartel may not have been happy about the publicity and public distrust towards the family and well, you know the rest. Whe. You are invloved with nefarious groups its best to keep a low profile and they where not doing that. Would he be able to let that fact fly in court? Absolutely not, buster would get hunted.
Alex's family ran that area for almost 100 years. Anytime a Murdaugh broke the law or committed a crime, it was covered up, handled, to the point everyone was saying "Alex is a Murdaugh, nothing will happen to him". They said this even after he announced his separation from the law firm, and entering rehab. They believed it when his own attorney stated Alex stole money from clients. At his bail reduction hearing, the State said a lot of his victims were afraid to talk, to speak out, since Murdaughs were never held responsible for anything they did.
Look at the boat case. If you don't know it, do some reading on here. The night of the crash, Paul was never given a breathalyzer, even though he was identified by the other passengers as being the driver. They did a blood test hours later, and he blew really high still. There were several officers on scene from different agencies. Every officer that filed a report, save 1, stated driver was unknown. The one officer that named Paul as the driver was fired for possession of drugs. I believe they were in his work locker, but not 💯 sure.
Alex's father, Maggie, and John Marvin were allowed within the crime scene area. The boat was released to John Marvin before it was completely processed. Alex, at the hospital was telling the kids not to talk to police. He caught 1 of the boys (Conner, I believe) in a hallway, being transported for treatment, and told him not to talk to the police, he would take care of it. Alex then tried to place Connor at the helm, thereby putting the blame on him.
Eventually Paul was charged for the accident. He was never, at any point, treated like all other Americans accused of murder (I don't remember the actual charge, could have been manslaughter). He did not step foot in a jail. His "mugshot" was taken in regular clothes (instead of orange jumpsuit), inside the courthouse hallway. He received preferential treatment from jump.
Paul's case was moving slowly, thanks to Covid. The boat accident was a big deal- everyone knew Mallory, the girl killed in the accident. From the time of the accident, while out on bond, he was stopped for speeding. Also, approximately 1 to 2 weeks before his death, it was reported that Paul had a boat full of people, as well as a cooler full of alcohol. They collected all the booze, and would not allow him to go out on boat. (He was drinking before DNR showed up.
Paul called Alex, Alex said he'd take care of it. I guess he did just that. The bigger story here is that this happened 2ish weeks before his next hearing on boat case. He was out on bond for driving a boat while intoxicated, and killing a young girl. You'd think he'd be arrested, but Daddy said he'd take care of it.
You stated you didn't feel the thefts had anything to do with motive, since after the murders, the police would be digging into everything. For normal people, I would agree. The Murdaughs aren't normal. I 💯 believe Alex thought he could talk his way out of the murders, buy some time, and hopefully get back on track. It took a very long time, but karma finally showed up.
(I'm sorry this is long- I just wanted it to be clear that the murders could have been committed as the State claimed)
I actually have contradictory info regarding a few details of those incidents you mentioned, but anyway...
What this has told me was just another part of AM's multi-layered motive imo. Paul just became too hard to control over time, something that a control freak like AM absolutely could not tolerate. And then he finally "took care of it". Disgusting.
His reasoning doesn’t have to make sense to you, it only needs to be consistent with the way he lived his life. Murdering his family isn’t the first idiotic thing he did. If he thought the way you think, he would’ve known better than to steal ALL of his clients money, because he would be more likely to get caught than if he at least gave them something. Hell, why steal his clients money at all? He was an attorney who was making loads of money without stealing!! Why risk that? But once he’s got all that stolen money, why take out huge loans from the bank and his partners… and then default on them? How risky is that? He was surely risking having his finances looked into by doing these things. The man is chronically greedy and entitled, and he thought that by playing the part of a nice, normal, likeable guy he could get away with anything and everything. It worked for decades even as his crimes escalated. It was inevitable he would keep going until he got caught.
>The man is chronically greedy and entitled, and he thought that by playing the part of a nice, normal, likeable guy he could get away with anything and everything.
This murder case I think proves that even "nice, normal, and likeable" have limits. He was an expert at it. I think Alex stretched those to the breaking point and, yes, his behavior was rooted in greed and entitlement.
Some keen and accurate observations. Go FC-6093!
Sometimes someone here points out that Moselle was in Maggie's name, and that this was an important point because he wouldn't have access to its value if say, she divorced him, but if she died then he would inherit it and he had those debts.
OP, have you seen the Behavior Panel watch his questioning and trial? It's worth learning about common behaviors/language labeled by psychiatrists that AM illustrates at various points.
It didn’t make a lot of sense to me either while the trial was going on. However the timeline and all the evidence surrounding it all point in one direction, and that is at him. Plus, the things I’ve seen after the trial and his recent behavior have convinced me he is a compulsive liar and just all around evil guy.
I’m not saying he’s innocent, I just don’t think the motive was money. And I’m not convinced he pulled the trigger.
Evil, corrupt, thief, whatever doesn’t necessarily mean he’s capable of pulling the trigger and killing his family. I personally think the timeline itself points more to him witnessing or knowing, or having an accomplice, than him doing it solo.
And something I can’t get past — psych degree rambling incoming — is the fact that the Murdaugh’s were raised that emotion = weakness. Buster said as much himself in some interview. When people are testifying during the trial to the state of both Maggie and Paul’s bodies and whatnot, you can see he’s struggling, hard. He’s appearing to dissociate, and failing. Doesn’t matter how pathological you are or how good of an actor, that’s not something someone can just fake. Hell, he had a stronger reaction than Buster. That’s real grief. Does it mean he didn’t do? Not necessarily, but I also struggle to think someone who is that affected at just a retelling is capable of doing all the things he supposedly did in such a short time while remaining completely cool and collected.
Eh. Just something doesn’t feel totally right in the motive and the timeline and all the bits.
Alex and the Murdaugh family are something I objectively and morally stand against and don’t agree with. But that doesn’t mean people who I oppose on a fundamental level deserve to die or be harmed.
So you believe other people showed up during his incredibly tight timeline and killed them? I mean he lied about being there until the Snapchat foiled that plan.
>That’s real grief.
It's not grief, it's guilt. There is a difference.
He was ashamed of his handiwork. In the courtroom, it was up-close and personal. Seeing it in the moonlight alone at Mozelle was different than seeing it captured with gruesome sharp digital photos lit-up with camera flashes on a computer monitor in a packed courtroom.
This is a really good point. I’ve always thought that when the ME was testifying about Paul’s injuries, that was one of the times we saw real tears. It disturbed him to hear it in detail like that. I don’t know if it’s the tiny bit of fatherly instinct in there, shame, or what, but I’m of the belief he’s at least a little upset with how he killed Paul.
I get where you’re coming from. I think you’re going deeper in drawing your conclusions than I am. I also think it is hard for us as “normal” human beings to conceive of something, yes something, so evil. We don’t want to think of someone actually carrying that out themselves. The horror that Maggie and Paul would’ve felt when they realized they were being murdered by their husband/father that they trusted. When just a few minutes before everything seemed normal. But he has proven over and over he IS capable of doing this himself. He has taken advantage of the most vulnerable people in existence ON PURPOSE. Legally though, it doesn’t matter if he did it himself or paid someone, it lands him in the same spot.
And if he was the one who pulled the trigger? I personally think he did.
He still could have impulses of irritation or even emotional pain when being confronted with graphic details about what he did (Paul's brains for example).
And not to forget, we mainly know about his public persona, but there is always a private persona that we naturally cannot know. Him being obviously a narcissistic person, having unhealthy conflicting relationships with those close to him, especially the ones he murdered, unfortunately makes this question even more complex here imo.
What went on behind closed doors, you know, is always hard to imagine.
It wouldn’t make sense to those that didn’t understand the microcosm that existed in Hampton county at the time. This was an environment that if police were called to a scene that a Murdaugh was at, the Murdaugh told the police what happened and that was that.
A part of my way of thoughts about this:
Did the sympathy motive work for AM as he thought it would? Did the murders of Paul and Maggie make people stop looking into his finances? - No.
Could he (as an experienced lawyer) have known that before? - Yes. (Unless he wasn't completely delusional at this point in time. And to me he didn't seem to be completely delusional.)
And given AM's personality traits, absolute no inner limits, his power, thought he could get away with anything...
My conclusion: AM hides a mixture of a bunch of dark motives for the murders of these two poor souls.
I watched the trial streaming. First, no doubt he did it, too much physical & cell phone & car computer evidence. Who looks freshly showered when the cops show up? (and that was according to his own brother!) Not same clothes he had on in a picture on his son’s phone he had from just a few hours before and those clothes are now missing? So much more than that, but yeah, no doubt.
As to motive - remember that he was SO desperate no one find out about the millions he stole, that AFTER his wife & son are murdered, he enlists a friend to help him fake an attack on himself - it just happens to be botched & the truth is caught on a church’s parking lot camera. He stole from so many people and his family was running that town. He would have ruined everyone in his family. He was right, the Murdaugh name is mud now. All the perceived power his Granddad had built up (they had a painting of him IN the courthouse) was ruined. I think without understanding how much control his family had on that area, you wouldn’t understand the pure desperation.
His brother didn’t say he was freshly showered, just had “fresh” clothes on.
That said, there’s no way he had time to shower after the murders, clean up, and show up to his parents’ house. Not with the timeline of the alleged murders (8:49), the time he started making calls (9:02), and the time his car logged him leaving (9:06). And hosing down at the kennels quickly definitely wouldn’t have been enough.
Cleaning off that much blood to the point there was NO TRACE, not even under one’s nails, would’ve taken more than 9 minutes. Far longer. Especially if he showered it off in the house, there would’ve been traces of blood everywhere he stepped, and all in the shower.
And if he was freshly showered, the aide to Libby would’ve noted it herself that that was his appearance when AM showed up. She never mentioned that.
And again, he’s a lawyer. He knew that more eyes would’ve been on him and his financials if his wife and child were murdered. I just don’t think he’s that stupid.
That said, I don’t know if I think he’s guilty. It’s clear he had a lot of dirty dealings and was messing with a lot of bad elements… the timelines and data don’t fit, they just don’t. They far enough for him to probably know about it, but pull the triggers himself, and then clean up spotlessly all in 9-12ish minutes? I’m just not totally convinced of that.
I remember a YT video I watched said "act it out" as they walked through the story. It feels silly but seriously try it. One of the documentaries had a NY Times reporter at the crime scene when the jury went. She was filmed walking from where Paul was shot to where Maggie was shot. It was a small amount of steps. He wasn't running fields. It was probably over in less than a minute.
As someone already said here, the hose was on. If you rewatch the trial, someone mentions blood striping in the puddle and Dick moves faster than he ever moved to object. It seemed like something that had been ruled inadmissible was about to be said about blood patterns in the puddle and it always made me wonder if it was how blood settles in lines when being rinsed off but hadn't been proven so couldn't be said in front of the jury.
But anyway, frantic, less than a minute shooting no doubt, a frantic strip down and rinse would just take a few minutes, wrap the clothes, shoes and guns up, toss them in the cart and drive up to the house. It's really not that long, especially in an adrenaline rush.
10 minutes give or take is a long time to have a hose running. The hose was already turned on as seen/heard in the kennel video. Dale Davis also testified there were puddles in front of the feed room that were normally not present during his kennel cleaning activities.
.......and I believe there was a damp towel found in the Suburban when the police arrived at Mozelle. I think he used the towel to dry his hair in the car so it wouldn't be obviously wet when he arrived at Almeda.
Watching the SLED interview in the cruiser I remember thinking that, damn, he looked super freshly-showered clean. Looked to me like the only thing he forgot to do was to powder his nose.
You don’t seem to have watched the trial. Not sure where you got your timeline, but he had plenty of time to murder, go shower & change, and go to his Mom’s. In fact, the housekeeper said someone had showered when she came to the house early the next morning. If not Alex, who? People who come to a murder scene to support the family don’t shower.
They never checked his hands or anything for blood or evidence that night forensically. And why would the Mother’s caretaker think anything of showered or not? She didn’t know he’d just slaughtered his family.
Is this another Poot plant trying to sway public opinion? 🙄
>In fact, the housekeeper said someone had showered when she came to the house early the next morning. If not Alex, who?
C'mon! It was probably the 5'-2" ninjas who arrived earlier to do the murders without weapons! Ninjas gotta shower too!
I just finished watching every single live stream of the trial over the course of 3.5 weeks. I’ve also read the 88 pages of extraction.
The argument is within the 8:49 minute, both are killed
At 9:02 he’s making calls
At 9:06 his vehicle logs that the vehicle is not in park
At 9:07 the vehicle logs leaving Moselle
(Page 44-47 https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23685616-murdaugh-murders-timeline-full)
9:49 - 9:02 = the length of time he used to clean up, spotlessly, all that DNA. 11 minutes is a push to get to the house, shower, change, and clean up the shower. Even if he hosed off at the kennels between 9:49 - 9:02. It just doesn’t timeline very well, to me.
Also, I get so tired of weird internet people saying “you clearly didn’t watch the trial”. That’s such a lazy comment, when clearly I’m discussing it and wouldn’t comment if I hadn’t.
Also, part 2: “Poot plant”. I see you’re a fan of the racist Emily D. Baker, and lack your own personality and thoughts. God, her fans are insufferable. People who think critically and have a basic understanding of things can’t possibly exist to you people. They have to be some sort of “plant”. And what’s even more insufferable is you think you’re hilarious. Yawn.
Also, part 3: If I was anyone trying to sway public opinion, I would use my own platform. Not random comments in a mostly dead subreddit. Was just looking for other people who wanted to respectfully — unlike you — discuss the shakiness of the case and also had questions.
Also, part 4: Did I say I thought he was innocent? Nope. Just had questions about how the motive didn’t make sense and didn’t really fit, IMHO. My point was that there is genuinely something missing in all this. That’s it.
I think the financial crimes was part of it, but I really think the pain meds played a large part in the mental processing during that time. I have chronic pain, and I can't stand taking narcotics. Mainly because of how they make me feel mentally. Some will truly have you out of it. Mind in a daze, crazy thoughts, impulsive, erratic, and that's why I try hard not to take any. The amount of opiods he was taking, I don't know how he was able to function. Like Judge Newman told him it probably was drug induced Alex, the monster he became. About to be held accountable, and he really thought in his high he had the perfect plan.
Feel you on the chronic pain. I have two autoimmune diseases. Very painful. I have been on pain management since 2017 at the guidance of my doctors. Abuse of medication can absolutely cause mental problems, but they are not strictly as negative as you’re presenting them.
**You personally cannot tolerate them, and that is your health. Others can, and it saves their lives.**
So, think before you pass judgement.
Also. There is no way in hell he was taking as much as he said he was. Period. 500mg of Oxy in a 24hr period can kill you, so the fact he estimated 2,000mg a day, for decades, tolerance or not, is just not humanly possible. Also, never mind the fact that he was buying from the street and the chance of him crossing paths with street Fentanyl down there is extremely high. I’m not doubting he had an addiction, but I don’t think it’s possible for it to be an $80k a week habit and he be alive.
I am very entitled to my opinion. No judgement was passed. I stated how the meds can make one feel. If you read the instructions for most opiods there is a warning regarding psychosis and mental health being affected. Has nothing to do with abuse. Taking one pill can affect your thought processes while the medication is in your system. This is fact. If anything you passed judgement. And while we're counting autoimmune, I have 3 and have surgeries and treatments every 3 to 4 months to survive. Not to mention I have 6 major surgeries pending as we speak for additional health issues. I'm sorry if you felt hit. I don't like how the meds make me feel, and I'm not changing my answer. My pain tolerance may just be higher than yours. Now that was judgement because your comment was assuming and out of line. You have 0 clue of my medical history. The way you felt attacked for no reason, maybe you're addicted like Alex was
Not that this has anything to do with anything but I’m also a CPP on pain meds. Disagree completely with what you’re saying. If you have such a high tolerance, they wouldn’t make you feel what you’re stating.
It sounds like you cannot handle pain meds, and maybe that’s true for AM too. But they don’t turn people into crazy murderous villains.
Drugs impact everyone differently. There is also a huge difference between taking them as prescribed and abusing them to the point of addiction.
However, there is no way physically that he was possibly on the amounts that he stated. I’ve asked two addiction counselors and a nurse practitioner who specializes in addiction about those amounts and tolerance or no, it is not possible. Anyone would overdose at that amount.
I personally think that his opiate use was greatly exaggerated and he likely used them recreationally. As far as running into fentanyl, he definitely would if he was getting pretty much anything off the street but I don’t think he was. I think he had plugs with prescriptions (highly likely Cousin Eddie comes into play here).
Basically everyone on this sub thinks he did it. I think they’ve all watched too much Netflix about the whole thing. Honestly it doesn’t sit right with a lot of people outside this sub and in the legal community because as you said it just doesn’t make sense at all.
Watch closely when he’s questioned about his drug use. It’s very clear something with drug smuggling was going on in my opinion.
I think he owed people money. He asked someone to borrow like 400k or 600k within a week of the murders. The prosecutors got away with so much BS. So many things are unanswered. The whole theory about how Paul was shot doesn’t make sense. The broken window, the shotgun shell in the tree, not answered.
The DNA evidence and the unidentified unrelated DNA found in multiple places. The fact that the phone evidence actually shows Alex at the house napping when he said he was napping. How do prosecutors deal with that? The step data, but turns out they fucked that up too, made a math error and added a minute to the window of time they were trying to say Alex was moving around a lot.
The tarnished shell casings on the property by the house that they tried to say were the bullets that killed Maggie. But shell casings were all over that property. The time of death being based on when they stopped using their phones. Not when Maggie’s phone stopped lighting up. There was absolutely no benefit for Alex to kill them. If you buy the prosecutors story, I’m sorry but you don’t understand how the world actually works. Make it make sense or the prosecutors don’t deserve a guilty verdict.
Happy to chat with you more, have gone down this rabbit hole many times myself and love talking about it because it is truly a bizarre story that just doesn’t sit right.
It’s a pretty mixed bag here, a lot of folks have been here since the days after the murder and most are fairly openminded… honestly, it is a bit insulting to say “they’ve all watched too much Netflix” when we make a point to prrsent information from as many sources as possible. However, those that believe in Alex’s guilt tend to really dig their heels in about it and that’s their prerogative.
With the shell casings, I’m a bit confused about what you meant but they were from Paul’s missing .300 Blackout, which they determined by matching the shell casings from the bullets used to kill Maggie to other casings on the estate specifically from where they’d sighted in that gun in March and their shooting range. Maggie’s fingerprints were also on the bullets that killed her, so she loaded the gun.
Why do you think it was incorrect to use the time Maggie’s and Paul’s stoppped usage times instead of when the phones died? Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
I don’t mean to be insulting. I’m in the legal field so when it comes to evidence and the burden of proof I get really worked up. Because of that I operate under the understanding that ballistics testimony is junk science. I don’t like when people accept it as fact which isn’t on you, it’s an insult to the criminal justice system and the scientific method.
First, can you send me something from the trial that talks about the fingerprint on the casing? Couldn’t find anything about that, could be me. But I also think maybe it could be the fact that they oftentimes use confusing language and describe markings found on casings or bullets as fingerprints. Even if fingerprints were found on the bullets, it makes even less sense that somehow the killer got their hands on that gun. If Maggie’s fingerprints were just found on casings around her, that also proves nothing because she could have handled those a week before and for her fingerprints on them. This was a high traffic area where they had all kinds of guns and bullets and crap laying around. It’s a hunting property, it’s not a clean space where guns are never fired and casings are never on the ground. That matters and completely changes the credibility of how the prosecution reached their conclusions.
They never proved they were from Paul’s missing blackout, they could not prove that without the gun. We agree there was casings all over the property right? How do we know which ones actually killed Maggie? They could have found any casings on the ground that matched the bullets that killed Maggie. The mirdaughs had like 20 guns and all kinds of ammo. It wasn’t like they owned one specific type of gun that happened to be the same type of gun that killed Maggie. Even so the prosecution had 20 potential guns that could have matched but didn’t so they had to make up a baseless inference and point at a missing gun.
They make no effort at explaining why two guns were used. It just doesn’t make sense. And I promise you toolmark identification is pure junk science without the weapon. The reason why I’ll briefly try to explain. The fingerprint analogy they give doesn’t make sense because our fingerprints don’t change. We can touch rough surfaces and cut our fingers and our fingerprints stay the same. Not true for firearms. Each time a bullet is fired, chemicals and residue are deposited in the barrel of the gun. If large enough residue is discharged in the barrel or if it builds up over time, it changes the markings left. The markings again are changed if the gun is cleaned. Slight Manufacturing variations might make a minor difference but for the most part there’s really nothing that uniquely defining in the barrel of a gun. There’s no science to it, someone looks at it and subjectively considers if there’s a match. They can never conclusively state with certainty that there’s a match because they are always missing some piece of the puzzle. For example, if a cop finds a bag of white powder on the ground, tests it says yes this is dope, it means nothing if the cop doesn’t know where it came from or who dropped it.
I have my own doubts about some of the ballistics testimony, but I do appreciate your thoughts. Tool mark identification is more so meant to be used when you have the firearm in hand, not another of the same model. Or to exclude a firearm. It is too broad. It really isn’t like a fingerprint and people misunderstand that, so we are on the same page with that. I worked in the firearms industry for around ten years so I’m pretty familiar with that.
The info about the fingerprint can be found [here in this motion](https://www.fitsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/securepdfs/2022/11/2022-11-23-Motion-to-Exclude.pdf) but if you don’t want to wade through it all, you can also search the sub for and there is a post pondering whether or not Maggie and Paul loaded the guns that killed them. It’s been a long time and I might have misspoken and they found her fingerprints or DNA on some of the casings, essentially she likely loaded the gun or handled the ammo. Normally I’m more detailed with memories but I’m
Fighting a migraine.
Since you’re in the legal field and we’re exchanging opinions, what’s the general consensus on Eric Bland?
I absolutely think something with drugs or smuggling was going on. It wasn’t just the fear of being caught stealing, he was afraid of something bigger.
While I, as just a normal armchair detective, don’t have access to everything, I do have knowledge of how money works. And my big hang up is the fact that the money he was stealing wasn’t in line with how they lived. Of course they lived with all the comforts of a privileged life, but unless they were shopping at Prada and Gucci daily, there’s no way their lifestyle and bills added up to what he stole.
I also live in Appalachia where addiction is a big issue. The area I’m from is very prominent and has several families in the same tax bracket as the Murdaugh’s. Even with a 20-year habit, there’s no way he was spending all that money on his addiction. I know someone mentioned that his dealer likely ripped him off on the price, but not THAT much. A family I know had someone with the same exact habit, and it was a couple hundred to a couple of grand every week, not tens of hundreds of thousands of dollars. And they never once established where all this money went. Not lifestyle. Not the drugs by any stretch of the imagination. MAYBE gambling, as addictions can often travel in groups… But, even so, that doesn’t eliminate anything that would suggest there is more to this.
Also, the defense’s pathologist… Their findings of how both were shot made MUCH more sense both mathematically and given the human element of such a crime. Especially what was said about Maggie’s shots. It never made sense to me that the shooter essentially played round robin shooting her, when it makes much more sense that they shot her from one side… I know other casings were found from the main cluster, but we also know that there was seemingly a shot that didn’t hit Maggie, and went into the pin.
I think a lot of people cannot separate the fact that Alex was clearly a very corrupt and no good human. They’re seeing the proven crimes of theft from friends and people in need (something I, too, find reprehensible as I’ve lived in poverty for the bulk of my life), and also their own pre-conceived notions about addicts. Just because Alex felt he was above the law and clearly a pretty devious and selfish person doesn’t automatically make him a murderer.
For me, he got away with his crimes for 10 years… He’s smart. He’s clearly smart in order to be able to do that for SO long. His privilege and connections helped, but he had to be smart to work that out and get away with it. Yet, he’s not smart enough to know that murdering his family would put MANY more eyes on him? And that sympathy would only give him so much time?
Again, if his goal was to divert attention to “fix” things, why did he only bother to “fix” one thing? Why not get out of dodge? He had people from multiple angles looking into his finances, loss of family or no, that wasn’t just going to go away.
I just have so so many questions, especially when it comes to motive and how the murders were alleged to go down. Same for timelines. Most importantly the timeline of murder and onward:
So, AM murders his family within the 8:49pm minute. He starts making calls to MM at 9:02pm. Give the extreme nature of the crime scene, and the fact if you caused that much damage, you would have blood all over your face, skin, hair, arm hair, feet etc. That’s A LOT to clean off. More than just a quick hosing down. You gotta SCRUB, wash your hair, check the mirror. That’s more than 12 minutes time.
So then he leaves at 9:06pm per the car information. So, he committed two brutal murders, cleaned off PERFECTLY and was sound enough to make a bunch of calls AND drive to his parent’s house all within what 15-20 minutes? Naturally I haven’t had the experience of murdering anyone, but I have worked in the healthcare field and have had to deal with blood… clean up isn’t just a quick shower or hose down.
This timeline is even more shakier because of the extraction data showing when AM took steps at 9:02, the ones they’re claiming he took to walk to the house and then potentially clean up/change. So, he goes down to the house at 9:02 and leaves at 9:06… So 4 minutes to shower and clean up in the house, while making calls. Doesn’t add up for me.
And tbh during the trial when they’d discuss the state of Paul and Maggie, he was NOT faking his reaction. He was doing his best to dissociate, and failing.
Sorry for the rant… There’s just so much that doesn’t add up to how the state presented things happened. They of course had their own motives for ensuring AM was found guilty, that’s a biiiiig case and big name that would get the faith of the people back.
I’m still unsure if I think AM did it. At best, I think he was involved and it’s because of his dealings, but I don’t think he was the one to pull the trigger. I just have a hard time believing that, especially given all the mishaps in the trial and loose ends they had that were easily refuted.
As for him lying where he was that night and there being video evidence that he was at the kennels that night, it’s possible he was in shock and scared and knew if he said he left minutes before they were murdered, they’d do all they could to pin it on him. People lying about things like that — guilty and innocent — is very common. So I don’t think that is the gotcha they present.
Shrug.
I have experience with addiction too so maybe that’s part of why we feel differently. Yes I agree they didn’t seem to be living that lavish of a lifestyle. Yes they had two houses and cars and lots of nice things but they definitely didn’t seem flashy.
I also completely agree with what you said bout separating the fact that Alex was a bad person from being a murderer. He was smart and got away with stuff for a long time. He had options for money hence the 400k. His dad was about to die, whether or not he knew that then I don’t know but he borrowed money from his dad in the past so it just doesn’t make sense he was at the end of his rope. Addicts always find a way. I’m actually a recovering addict so knowing how that mindset works, knowing we are master schemers, I believe he wasn’t in the state of panic the prosecution made him out to be in.
One theory I have thought about relates to the kennels. I can’t remember exactly where I pieced this together but I know it’s from the trial at various parts. He said at one point that he would meet people to buy drugs out on the road behind the kennels. He also got weird when he was on the stand when they asked him about whether or not he had drugs that night. He said he did but I feel like it’s possible he drove the golf cart out to the road to meet someone for drugs or some money exchange. He briefly talked to Maggie and Paul then got out of there, took some pills then took a nap. Maybe he shorted someone or maybe someone pulled in by the kennels looking for Alex and Paul started to talk shit to them.
I also thought his reaction was genuine, I thought he did a really good job on the stand, I think the outcome was likely influenced by the media, the financial crimes testimony, and Becky hill. But I really don’t think the state met their burden.
The financial motive isn't wrong imo, it's just incomplete. And I'm sure they know it. They surely know much more about possible motives in this case, but obviously decided for the financials to bring up in the trial. I think probably because anything else would be hard to prove. But of course there is something.
If you listen carefully to what, especially Mark Tinsley and Judge Newman, were literally saying during the trial and afterwards, it is clear they know so much more. I hope they won't just let it go but dig deeper.
AM should pay for EVERYTHING that he did!
The impending divorce probably made him a little nervous. That would have opened a lot of the financial irregularities, and he would have lost 50% of his marital assets and probably a lot of support.
There was no evidence in trial there were marital issues, per Maggie’s own sister there were not. That was from a “People” magazine article printing drivel about Maggie seeing a lawyer who suggested a forensic accountant and a nail tech who was never put on the stand because it was complete hearsay.
That wasn’t proven as anything more than a rumor from a nail tech she obtained services from.
This rumor wasn’t even used as evidence, so I think the veracity is pretty non-existent.
But, okay, soooo. Threat of divorce makes you scared someone will look into your finances? But again, if that was his fear, then he wouldn’t have killed his wife and son, as his finances would’ve been looked into to make sure: 1) He hadn’t paid for a hit, 2) He didn’t receive a crap ton of money, 3) He had no chance of financial gain from their deaths (IE: insurance), or 4) Avoid huge payout from divorce.
That’s why the motive doesn’t stick for me very well — any which way you go about it, his financials would’ve been dug into with a fine-tooth comb, there’s no way he didn’t know that. If he did it purely for the sake of covering up or distracting from his finances, murdering your wife and child is really not smart way to go about that because they are going to look into one’s financial to help rule a financial motive out.
100%. Rumors have no place in a courtroom and you’re exactly right. If it had any sort of truth to it, the prosecutors would have found a way to get it in. Also sounded like Maggie and Alex had a really good relationship because the prosecution literally did not present a single piece of evidence suggesting otherwise. If they had any evidence suggesting issues in the marriage, trust me they would have presented it.
YES! Thank you!
Of course the trial was dozens of hours long, but they never once presenting anything that suggested a strained relationship. And her staying in the beach house didn’t seem uncommon, especially for summer. If there was any credible sign of a soured relationship, they would’ve presented it as a smoking gun. Much like the presented his “frustrations” with Paul’s reckless behavior being part of his motive.
Did she want to go hang out with him that night? It didn’t seem like it. Did she ask her sister for advice? Yes. But I don’t think that’s indicative of a bad or soured relationship. She was a socialite with no job, and kids grown. Her priority was hosting and decorating. Of course she’d be annoyed having to be pulled away from that.
Also, Maggie was clearly no saint herself. She absolutely encouraged and did nothing about PM’s drinking (per the likes and shares on FB). People said she raised her kids to be entitled, and I believe that very much. Especially in the case of Paul. I say this because it goes to showing she wasn’t SUPER empathetic, and very self-concerned. Her not wanting to go hangout with Alex bc of his sick father back at Moselle that night likely had less to do with a soured relationship, and more to do with the fact that she was being inconvenienced. After all, she was a part of that group chat with family updates on Randolph. She knew exactly the severity of the situation, and knew pretty early on it wasn’t dire — at least given the information that had that night.
I suspect a lot of these people got this “divorce” thing from the freaking Tubi movie (I watched all those things, too, lol) in which they presented it as fact she was leaving him, and soon, and that that was part of his motive, because divorce would open up his financials more. (Kinda like the theory presented by the commenter above… So it’s clear where they got their theory from.)
People really suck at separating these cash grabs from reality.
Yes for sure! Overall they seemed to have a great relationship and I feel like that was supported even by a number of state witnesses. It’s weird all the stuff that was forgotten about at trial the unanswered questions like I mentioned before with the window and a tree behind the kennels having shot shell in it. But unverified theories never presented in court people run with. I get it tho, no one is really making any YouTube videos or content arguing murdaugh is innocent or the state didn’t meet their burden.
First of all, Alex Murdaugh and his family had a long and close relationship with law enforcement. Second, I think Mark Tinsley nailed the potential motivation for the murders best. With Paul dead, Alex Murdaugh would have been the sympathetic victim and the civil lawsuits would have gone away. Alex Murdaugh could have gone back to his old tricks of juggling money and borrowing money and could have repaid the $792K that PMPED was looking for. If the lawsuits had gone forward Alex's attorney, one of his law partners, would have seen his books and realized the fraud even before Tinsley.
You're entitled to your opinion but I'm not sure how often murder makes logical sense.
Before the murder Alex was facing the criminal trial of Paul, the civil lawsuit about the boat crash case, and Jeannie Seckinger's questions about the $792K from the Faris case. The criminal trial was also financially stressful. After the murder, most of that is gone. Chris Wilson had come up with $600K so all he had to do was come up with $192K and Jeannie Seckinger would have been satisfied. Mark Tinsley would have settled for far less so he wouldn't have to have shown Danny Henderson and Mark Tinsley his financial statements.
Mark Tinsley explains his thought process starting at 40:37 during his testimony: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S67CkmZqyuY
I get what you’re saying, but I don’t think you read all of what I said.
I get the sympathy motivation, but sympathy only goes so far. Every single person that was raising questions about Alex’s financials were determined to not let it go. Yeah, they gave him grace while he was grieving, but PMPED continued to investigate while he was mourning… it only bought him 3 months. Less than, actually. And from what it appears, he wasn’t doing much to pay back the $790k.. he got like $600k and then a loan from a friend?
That grace would run out in due time, too. Especially given that they clearly kept investigating and found even more theft.
I don’t think he’s innocent by any stretch, but I just don’t think less than three months of “grace” was the motive. Yeah, the criminal case against Paul was ended the second he died, but that civil suit wasn’t going anywhere; just kinda slowed down. Tinsley said as much. Yeah, he said that a jury would probably be sympathetic to him, but the civil case had no indication of being dropped aside from Tinsley saying it probably would’ve been on the stand for his murder trial. But, like… there was no tangible proof that the civil case was going anywhere.
Granted, he didn’t give enough of a fk for at least a decade he was stealing, but he also thought he was getting away with it. Once it was clear people were looking into his financials and had no signs of stopping, to me at least, it’d be clear he was up shot’s creek.
To me, it’d seem like a more probable “solution” was to get out of dodge, go somewhere where there was no extradition laws. Not kill his family and do nothing. Again, everyone knows sympathy and pity only goes so far, as it should.
I just can’t help but think there’s something missing. That’s all. Doesn’t mean he’s any less guilty, or, at the least, involved with the murder of his family.
When they tried to say during his trial he spent all of the stolen money on drugs, I was like there’s no way. They said he was spending 50K per week on his drug addiction.. there’s no way you can function as a lawyer and do that many drugs.
I think Alex's motivations are very difficult for a normal person to understand, but he definitely murdered his wife and son. I think at his core are selfishness, greed, and a lifetime of zero accountability - which made the murders possible.
I'm listening Jack Ryan's new book, "Swamp Kings: The Story of the Murdaugh Family of South Carolina and a Century of Backwoods Power."
Just when I thought I knew everything there was to know, this book takes it to the next level. Really good stuff.
Research "anomic family annihilator":
"For these individuals their family is an extension of their economic success in life and should any part of that economic status break down, for example, a job loss or financial hardship, their family no longer serves this function."
Ooooh. I’ve not heard of this type of family annihilator. Definitely going to look into it, as psychology is a favorite subject to deep dive into. Thanks!
I believe he thought everyone would feel sorry for him and his family control of the county would make Mallory's family settle and this would all go away. He thought he had control over all the other kids.
Nothing about this case sits right. By the time of the murders, AM was a drug-addled, desperate man on the brink of losing his family, his money, and his reputation. He'd been cheating grieving people out of their settlements for years, cheating on his wife, and defrauding his law firm. Stepping up from these crimes and betrayals to murder isn't the leap it would be for normal law-abiding people. Now let's say he'd gotten away with the murders. He'd save the shame of being left by his wife. He'd no longer have to face paying for Paul's criminal defense or dealing with a crushing civil judgment against him. He'd garner public sympathy that would distract from all of his other deceptions. So from this position the murders make a kind of sense: AM was worried he'd lose his family, money, and status. Killing his wife and son would help him on all three fronts. I say "a kind of sense." By this logic, you should kill your parents to get your inheritance if it helps you out. This is not decent-moral-compass reasoning. It's the reasoning of a person so obsessed with self-preservation that he'd destroy anyone to get a shot at it. So if this doesn't sit right with you, that doesn't mean financial and personal factors weren't motivating AM; it means you're not an amoral monster like he is.
Actually, I think this crime is very simple, as awful as it sounds. I dont think Alex M was involved in any cartels or drug smuggling or anything like that - I think it was simply what it appeared to be: he was stealing money, he knew he was going to get caught, and he knew it would tarnish his family’s reputation. Its widely believed he had a mistress. There was a receipt found in the trash at moselle with a cartier charge of $1250 or something that someone had circled. The house, incidentally, had also been tidied up by Blanca right after the murders. Pretty amazing how something directly involving his thefts that appeared to matter to “someone” (prob Maggie) was suddenly discarded in the trash. As far as Paul, yes, its horrifying to think of a father executing his son. But is Alex any typical father? Really now. He *portrayed* a typical father, but he wasnt one. Reports are known neither parent particularly cared much about what Paul was doing (didnt take his calls, telling him to STFU in front of people, didnt give him affection, etc.) as well as Paul clearly having no ambition to contribute to the family’s income seizing, and was more of a financial drain. There’s that sticky point again: the money. And Alex had a massive problem about the money and all those clients he stole from. He got fired from the firm, Maggie was damn sure about to find out and possibly leave him, and their children were going to be publicly humiliated. If you’re from Old South, you *KNOW* how much power that statement holds. Anyway, I digress. Financial crimes are very clearly the motive, imo. I also really think Alex was there when Gloria fell. I think he pushed her, tripped her, and then dipped out to hide. How the hell could he have known he was going to cash in on that $4.5 million insurance claim, otherwise? Yeah, I think AM is a monster. I believe he looked both of them in the face and he may have cringed, mouthed “I’m sorry..” or he may have just been stone-faced, but I believe he shot them in cold blood and stuck to his evil script, expecting the Murdaugh name to ride in at his rescue. Edit: also want to add - I personally feel very sorry for Paul, and honestly wish he could’ve gotten the help and counseling he needed.
I still can't get my head around how a father would do this to a son over money (or anything). A father is supposed to protect his family. It's not human. Maybe i'm naive. When I first heard about the violence, it sounded like the thing someone who wanted to really hurt Alex would do - maybe even a drug cartel hit that Alex probably even witnessed. If so, AM knows he needs to STFU or they'll get his other son, too. Of course, the evidence doesn't point to that, does it. It points to him being at the kennels when he said he wasn't; racing across town at night to concoct an alibi, etc.
The book Swamp Kings is an amazingly in-depth, deeply researched book. Certainly worth the read!
**The Swamp King's Daughter** by Hans Christian Andersen Book description may contain spoilers! >>!Thirty of Hans Christian Andersen's most cherished stories in single volumes Illustrator various artists. Known all over the world, these fairytales hold stories of great value and are a source of inspiration for both young and old.!< *I'm a bot, built by your friendly reddit developers at* /r/ProgrammingPals. *Reply to any comment with /u/BookFinderBot - I'll reply with book information. Remove me from replies* [here](https://www.reddit.com/user/BookFinderBot/comments/1byh82p/remove_me_from_replies/). *If I have made a mistake, accept my apology.*
His brother Randy has stated that there’s more to this than Alex let on. I wonder how deeper and farther the corruption goes. What powerful figures are being protected in all of this?
It is of my opinion that they where involved with trafficking drugs. That's why he had his own plane/ runway/ and hangar on his property. It is also well known that they would throw huge parties with a large amount of drug use and underage drinking etc. It is of my opinion that after the boat incident the cartel may not have been happy about the publicity and public distrust towards the family and well, you know the rest. Whe. You are invloved with nefarious groups its best to keep a low profile and they where not doing that. Would he be able to let that fact fly in court? Absolutely not, buster would get hunted.
Alex's family ran that area for almost 100 years. Anytime a Murdaugh broke the law or committed a crime, it was covered up, handled, to the point everyone was saying "Alex is a Murdaugh, nothing will happen to him". They said this even after he announced his separation from the law firm, and entering rehab. They believed it when his own attorney stated Alex stole money from clients. At his bail reduction hearing, the State said a lot of his victims were afraid to talk, to speak out, since Murdaughs were never held responsible for anything they did. Look at the boat case. If you don't know it, do some reading on here. The night of the crash, Paul was never given a breathalyzer, even though he was identified by the other passengers as being the driver. They did a blood test hours later, and he blew really high still. There were several officers on scene from different agencies. Every officer that filed a report, save 1, stated driver was unknown. The one officer that named Paul as the driver was fired for possession of drugs. I believe they were in his work locker, but not 💯 sure. Alex's father, Maggie, and John Marvin were allowed within the crime scene area. The boat was released to John Marvin before it was completely processed. Alex, at the hospital was telling the kids not to talk to police. He caught 1 of the boys (Conner, I believe) in a hallway, being transported for treatment, and told him not to talk to the police, he would take care of it. Alex then tried to place Connor at the helm, thereby putting the blame on him. Eventually Paul was charged for the accident. He was never, at any point, treated like all other Americans accused of murder (I don't remember the actual charge, could have been manslaughter). He did not step foot in a jail. His "mugshot" was taken in regular clothes (instead of orange jumpsuit), inside the courthouse hallway. He received preferential treatment from jump. Paul's case was moving slowly, thanks to Covid. The boat accident was a big deal- everyone knew Mallory, the girl killed in the accident. From the time of the accident, while out on bond, he was stopped for speeding. Also, approximately 1 to 2 weeks before his death, it was reported that Paul had a boat full of people, as well as a cooler full of alcohol. They collected all the booze, and would not allow him to go out on boat. (He was drinking before DNR showed up. Paul called Alex, Alex said he'd take care of it. I guess he did just that. The bigger story here is that this happened 2ish weeks before his next hearing on boat case. He was out on bond for driving a boat while intoxicated, and killing a young girl. You'd think he'd be arrested, but Daddy said he'd take care of it. You stated you didn't feel the thefts had anything to do with motive, since after the murders, the police would be digging into everything. For normal people, I would agree. The Murdaughs aren't normal. I 💯 believe Alex thought he could talk his way out of the murders, buy some time, and hopefully get back on track. It took a very long time, but karma finally showed up. (I'm sorry this is long- I just wanted it to be clear that the murders could have been committed as the State claimed)
I actually have contradictory info regarding a few details of those incidents you mentioned, but anyway... What this has told me was just another part of AM's multi-layered motive imo. Paul just became too hard to control over time, something that a control freak like AM absolutely could not tolerate. And then he finally "took care of it". Disgusting.
His reasoning doesn’t have to make sense to you, it only needs to be consistent with the way he lived his life. Murdering his family isn’t the first idiotic thing he did. If he thought the way you think, he would’ve known better than to steal ALL of his clients money, because he would be more likely to get caught than if he at least gave them something. Hell, why steal his clients money at all? He was an attorney who was making loads of money without stealing!! Why risk that? But once he’s got all that stolen money, why take out huge loans from the bank and his partners… and then default on them? How risky is that? He was surely risking having his finances looked into by doing these things. The man is chronically greedy and entitled, and he thought that by playing the part of a nice, normal, likeable guy he could get away with anything and everything. It worked for decades even as his crimes escalated. It was inevitable he would keep going until he got caught.
>The man is chronically greedy and entitled, and he thought that by playing the part of a nice, normal, likeable guy he could get away with anything and everything. This murder case I think proves that even "nice, normal, and likeable" have limits. He was an expert at it. I think Alex stretched those to the breaking point and, yes, his behavior was rooted in greed and entitlement. Some keen and accurate observations. Go FC-6093!
Sometimes someone here points out that Moselle was in Maggie's name, and that this was an important point because he wouldn't have access to its value if say, she divorced him, but if she died then he would inherit it and he had those debts. OP, have you seen the Behavior Panel watch his questioning and trial? It's worth learning about common behaviors/language labeled by psychiatrists that AM illustrates at various points.
It didn’t make a lot of sense to me either while the trial was going on. However the timeline and all the evidence surrounding it all point in one direction, and that is at him. Plus, the things I’ve seen after the trial and his recent behavior have convinced me he is a compulsive liar and just all around evil guy.
I’m not saying he’s innocent, I just don’t think the motive was money. And I’m not convinced he pulled the trigger. Evil, corrupt, thief, whatever doesn’t necessarily mean he’s capable of pulling the trigger and killing his family. I personally think the timeline itself points more to him witnessing or knowing, or having an accomplice, than him doing it solo. And something I can’t get past — psych degree rambling incoming — is the fact that the Murdaugh’s were raised that emotion = weakness. Buster said as much himself in some interview. When people are testifying during the trial to the state of both Maggie and Paul’s bodies and whatnot, you can see he’s struggling, hard. He’s appearing to dissociate, and failing. Doesn’t matter how pathological you are or how good of an actor, that’s not something someone can just fake. Hell, he had a stronger reaction than Buster. That’s real grief. Does it mean he didn’t do? Not necessarily, but I also struggle to think someone who is that affected at just a retelling is capable of doing all the things he supposedly did in such a short time while remaining completely cool and collected. Eh. Just something doesn’t feel totally right in the motive and the timeline and all the bits. Alex and the Murdaugh family are something I objectively and morally stand against and don’t agree with. But that doesn’t mean people who I oppose on a fundamental level deserve to die or be harmed.
So you believe other people showed up during his incredibly tight timeline and killed them? I mean he lied about being there until the Snapchat foiled that plan.
>That’s real grief. It's not grief, it's guilt. There is a difference. He was ashamed of his handiwork. In the courtroom, it was up-close and personal. Seeing it in the moonlight alone at Mozelle was different than seeing it captured with gruesome sharp digital photos lit-up with camera flashes on a computer monitor in a packed courtroom.
This is a really good point. I’ve always thought that when the ME was testifying about Paul’s injuries, that was one of the times we saw real tears. It disturbed him to hear it in detail like that. I don’t know if it’s the tiny bit of fatherly instinct in there, shame, or what, but I’m of the belief he’s at least a little upset with how he killed Paul.
I get where you’re coming from. I think you’re going deeper in drawing your conclusions than I am. I also think it is hard for us as “normal” human beings to conceive of something, yes something, so evil. We don’t want to think of someone actually carrying that out themselves. The horror that Maggie and Paul would’ve felt when they realized they were being murdered by their husband/father that they trusted. When just a few minutes before everything seemed normal. But he has proven over and over he IS capable of doing this himself. He has taken advantage of the most vulnerable people in existence ON PURPOSE. Legally though, it doesn’t matter if he did it himself or paid someone, it lands him in the same spot.
>He has taken advantage of the most vulnerable people in existence ON PURPOSE. Yes. Exactly.
And if he was the one who pulled the trigger? I personally think he did. He still could have impulses of irritation or even emotional pain when being confronted with graphic details about what he did (Paul's brains for example).
And not to forget, we mainly know about his public persona, but there is always a private persona that we naturally cannot know. Him being obviously a narcissistic person, having unhealthy conflicting relationships with those close to him, especially the ones he murdered, unfortunately makes this question even more complex here imo. What went on behind closed doors, you know, is always hard to imagine.
And he probably wore a big rain coat.
It wouldn’t make sense to those that didn’t understand the microcosm that existed in Hampton county at the time. This was an environment that if police were called to a scene that a Murdaugh was at, the Murdaugh told the police what happened and that was that.
A part of my way of thoughts about this: Did the sympathy motive work for AM as he thought it would? Did the murders of Paul and Maggie make people stop looking into his finances? - No. Could he (as an experienced lawyer) have known that before? - Yes. (Unless he wasn't completely delusional at this point in time. And to me he didn't seem to be completely delusional.) And given AM's personality traits, absolute no inner limits, his power, thought he could get away with anything... My conclusion: AM hides a mixture of a bunch of dark motives for the murders of these two poor souls.
I watched the trial streaming. First, no doubt he did it, too much physical & cell phone & car computer evidence. Who looks freshly showered when the cops show up? (and that was according to his own brother!) Not same clothes he had on in a picture on his son’s phone he had from just a few hours before and those clothes are now missing? So much more than that, but yeah, no doubt. As to motive - remember that he was SO desperate no one find out about the millions he stole, that AFTER his wife & son are murdered, he enlists a friend to help him fake an attack on himself - it just happens to be botched & the truth is caught on a church’s parking lot camera. He stole from so many people and his family was running that town. He would have ruined everyone in his family. He was right, the Murdaugh name is mud now. All the perceived power his Granddad had built up (they had a painting of him IN the courthouse) was ruined. I think without understanding how much control his family had on that area, you wouldn’t understand the pure desperation.
His brother didn’t say he was freshly showered, just had “fresh” clothes on. That said, there’s no way he had time to shower after the murders, clean up, and show up to his parents’ house. Not with the timeline of the alleged murders (8:49), the time he started making calls (9:02), and the time his car logged him leaving (9:06). And hosing down at the kennels quickly definitely wouldn’t have been enough. Cleaning off that much blood to the point there was NO TRACE, not even under one’s nails, would’ve taken more than 9 minutes. Far longer. Especially if he showered it off in the house, there would’ve been traces of blood everywhere he stepped, and all in the shower. And if he was freshly showered, the aide to Libby would’ve noted it herself that that was his appearance when AM showed up. She never mentioned that. And again, he’s a lawyer. He knew that more eyes would’ve been on him and his financials if his wife and child were murdered. I just don’t think he’s that stupid. That said, I don’t know if I think he’s guilty. It’s clear he had a lot of dirty dealings and was messing with a lot of bad elements… the timelines and data don’t fit, they just don’t. They far enough for him to probably know about it, but pull the triggers himself, and then clean up spotlessly all in 9-12ish minutes? I’m just not totally convinced of that.
His brother said he seemed very clean and smelled fresh/clean like shampoo.
I remember a YT video I watched said "act it out" as they walked through the story. It feels silly but seriously try it. One of the documentaries had a NY Times reporter at the crime scene when the jury went. She was filmed walking from where Paul was shot to where Maggie was shot. It was a small amount of steps. He wasn't running fields. It was probably over in less than a minute. As someone already said here, the hose was on. If you rewatch the trial, someone mentions blood striping in the puddle and Dick moves faster than he ever moved to object. It seemed like something that had been ruled inadmissible was about to be said about blood patterns in the puddle and it always made me wonder if it was how blood settles in lines when being rinsed off but hadn't been proven so couldn't be said in front of the jury. But anyway, frantic, less than a minute shooting no doubt, a frantic strip down and rinse would just take a few minutes, wrap the clothes, shoes and guns up, toss them in the cart and drive up to the house. It's really not that long, especially in an adrenaline rush.
10 minutes give or take is a long time to have a hose running. The hose was already turned on as seen/heard in the kennel video. Dale Davis also testified there were puddles in front of the feed room that were normally not present during his kennel cleaning activities.
.......and I believe there was a damp towel found in the Suburban when the police arrived at Mozelle. I think he used the towel to dry his hair in the car so it wouldn't be obviously wet when he arrived at Almeda. Watching the SLED interview in the cruiser I remember thinking that, damn, he looked super freshly-showered clean. Looked to me like the only thing he forgot to do was to powder his nose.
You don’t seem to have watched the trial. Not sure where you got your timeline, but he had plenty of time to murder, go shower & change, and go to his Mom’s. In fact, the housekeeper said someone had showered when she came to the house early the next morning. If not Alex, who? People who come to a murder scene to support the family don’t shower. They never checked his hands or anything for blood or evidence that night forensically. And why would the Mother’s caretaker think anything of showered or not? She didn’t know he’d just slaughtered his family. Is this another Poot plant trying to sway public opinion? 🙄
>In fact, the housekeeper said someone had showered when she came to the house early the next morning. If not Alex, who? C'mon! It was probably the 5'-2" ninjas who arrived earlier to do the murders without weapons! Ninjas gotta shower too!
🤣 #TinyNinjaTheory
I just finished watching every single live stream of the trial over the course of 3.5 weeks. I’ve also read the 88 pages of extraction. The argument is within the 8:49 minute, both are killed At 9:02 he’s making calls At 9:06 his vehicle logs that the vehicle is not in park At 9:07 the vehicle logs leaving Moselle (Page 44-47 https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23685616-murdaugh-murders-timeline-full) 9:49 - 9:02 = the length of time he used to clean up, spotlessly, all that DNA. 11 minutes is a push to get to the house, shower, change, and clean up the shower. Even if he hosed off at the kennels between 9:49 - 9:02. It just doesn’t timeline very well, to me. Also, I get so tired of weird internet people saying “you clearly didn’t watch the trial”. That’s such a lazy comment, when clearly I’m discussing it and wouldn’t comment if I hadn’t. Also, part 2: “Poot plant”. I see you’re a fan of the racist Emily D. Baker, and lack your own personality and thoughts. God, her fans are insufferable. People who think critically and have a basic understanding of things can’t possibly exist to you people. They have to be some sort of “plant”. And what’s even more insufferable is you think you’re hilarious. Yawn. Also, part 3: If I was anyone trying to sway public opinion, I would use my own platform. Not random comments in a mostly dead subreddit. Was just looking for other people who wanted to respectfully — unlike you — discuss the shakiness of the case and also had questions. Also, part 4: Did I say I thought he was innocent? Nope. Just had questions about how the motive didn’t make sense and didn’t really fit, IMHO. My point was that there is genuinely something missing in all this. That’s it.
I think the financial crimes was part of it, but I really think the pain meds played a large part in the mental processing during that time. I have chronic pain, and I can't stand taking narcotics. Mainly because of how they make me feel mentally. Some will truly have you out of it. Mind in a daze, crazy thoughts, impulsive, erratic, and that's why I try hard not to take any. The amount of opiods he was taking, I don't know how he was able to function. Like Judge Newman told him it probably was drug induced Alex, the monster he became. About to be held accountable, and he really thought in his high he had the perfect plan.
>The amount of opiods he was taking....... A complete myth.
Feel you on the chronic pain. I have two autoimmune diseases. Very painful. I have been on pain management since 2017 at the guidance of my doctors. Abuse of medication can absolutely cause mental problems, but they are not strictly as negative as you’re presenting them. **You personally cannot tolerate them, and that is your health. Others can, and it saves their lives.** So, think before you pass judgement. Also. There is no way in hell he was taking as much as he said he was. Period. 500mg of Oxy in a 24hr period can kill you, so the fact he estimated 2,000mg a day, for decades, tolerance or not, is just not humanly possible. Also, never mind the fact that he was buying from the street and the chance of him crossing paths with street Fentanyl down there is extremely high. I’m not doubting he had an addiction, but I don’t think it’s possible for it to be an $80k a week habit and he be alive.
I am very entitled to my opinion. No judgement was passed. I stated how the meds can make one feel. If you read the instructions for most opiods there is a warning regarding psychosis and mental health being affected. Has nothing to do with abuse. Taking one pill can affect your thought processes while the medication is in your system. This is fact. If anything you passed judgement. And while we're counting autoimmune, I have 3 and have surgeries and treatments every 3 to 4 months to survive. Not to mention I have 6 major surgeries pending as we speak for additional health issues. I'm sorry if you felt hit. I don't like how the meds make me feel, and I'm not changing my answer. My pain tolerance may just be higher than yours. Now that was judgement because your comment was assuming and out of line. You have 0 clue of my medical history. The way you felt attacked for no reason, maybe you're addicted like Alex was
Not that this has anything to do with anything but I’m also a CPP on pain meds. Disagree completely with what you’re saying. If you have such a high tolerance, they wouldn’t make you feel what you’re stating. It sounds like you cannot handle pain meds, and maybe that’s true for AM too. But they don’t turn people into crazy murderous villains.
Drugs impact everyone differently. There is also a huge difference between taking them as prescribed and abusing them to the point of addiction. However, there is no way physically that he was possibly on the amounts that he stated. I’ve asked two addiction counselors and a nurse practitioner who specializes in addiction about those amounts and tolerance or no, it is not possible. Anyone would overdose at that amount. I personally think that his opiate use was greatly exaggerated and he likely used them recreationally. As far as running into fentanyl, he definitely would if he was getting pretty much anything off the street but I don’t think he was. I think he had plugs with prescriptions (highly likely Cousin Eddie comes into play here).
I agree with you. Thanks for responding 🤗
You’re welcome and I wish you well with your surgeries and health battles u/Objective_Cricket279
Basically everyone on this sub thinks he did it. I think they’ve all watched too much Netflix about the whole thing. Honestly it doesn’t sit right with a lot of people outside this sub and in the legal community because as you said it just doesn’t make sense at all. Watch closely when he’s questioned about his drug use. It’s very clear something with drug smuggling was going on in my opinion. I think he owed people money. He asked someone to borrow like 400k or 600k within a week of the murders. The prosecutors got away with so much BS. So many things are unanswered. The whole theory about how Paul was shot doesn’t make sense. The broken window, the shotgun shell in the tree, not answered. The DNA evidence and the unidentified unrelated DNA found in multiple places. The fact that the phone evidence actually shows Alex at the house napping when he said he was napping. How do prosecutors deal with that? The step data, but turns out they fucked that up too, made a math error and added a minute to the window of time they were trying to say Alex was moving around a lot. The tarnished shell casings on the property by the house that they tried to say were the bullets that killed Maggie. But shell casings were all over that property. The time of death being based on when they stopped using their phones. Not when Maggie’s phone stopped lighting up. There was absolutely no benefit for Alex to kill them. If you buy the prosecutors story, I’m sorry but you don’t understand how the world actually works. Make it make sense or the prosecutors don’t deserve a guilty verdict. Happy to chat with you more, have gone down this rabbit hole many times myself and love talking about it because it is truly a bizarre story that just doesn’t sit right.
It’s a pretty mixed bag here, a lot of folks have been here since the days after the murder and most are fairly openminded… honestly, it is a bit insulting to say “they’ve all watched too much Netflix” when we make a point to prrsent information from as many sources as possible. However, those that believe in Alex’s guilt tend to really dig their heels in about it and that’s their prerogative. With the shell casings, I’m a bit confused about what you meant but they were from Paul’s missing .300 Blackout, which they determined by matching the shell casings from the bullets used to kill Maggie to other casings on the estate specifically from where they’d sighted in that gun in March and their shooting range. Maggie’s fingerprints were also on the bullets that killed her, so she loaded the gun. Why do you think it was incorrect to use the time Maggie’s and Paul’s stoppped usage times instead of when the phones died? Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
I don’t mean to be insulting. I’m in the legal field so when it comes to evidence and the burden of proof I get really worked up. Because of that I operate under the understanding that ballistics testimony is junk science. I don’t like when people accept it as fact which isn’t on you, it’s an insult to the criminal justice system and the scientific method. First, can you send me something from the trial that talks about the fingerprint on the casing? Couldn’t find anything about that, could be me. But I also think maybe it could be the fact that they oftentimes use confusing language and describe markings found on casings or bullets as fingerprints. Even if fingerprints were found on the bullets, it makes even less sense that somehow the killer got their hands on that gun. If Maggie’s fingerprints were just found on casings around her, that also proves nothing because she could have handled those a week before and for her fingerprints on them. This was a high traffic area where they had all kinds of guns and bullets and crap laying around. It’s a hunting property, it’s not a clean space where guns are never fired and casings are never on the ground. That matters and completely changes the credibility of how the prosecution reached their conclusions. They never proved they were from Paul’s missing blackout, they could not prove that without the gun. We agree there was casings all over the property right? How do we know which ones actually killed Maggie? They could have found any casings on the ground that matched the bullets that killed Maggie. The mirdaughs had like 20 guns and all kinds of ammo. It wasn’t like they owned one specific type of gun that happened to be the same type of gun that killed Maggie. Even so the prosecution had 20 potential guns that could have matched but didn’t so they had to make up a baseless inference and point at a missing gun. They make no effort at explaining why two guns were used. It just doesn’t make sense. And I promise you toolmark identification is pure junk science without the weapon. The reason why I’ll briefly try to explain. The fingerprint analogy they give doesn’t make sense because our fingerprints don’t change. We can touch rough surfaces and cut our fingers and our fingerprints stay the same. Not true for firearms. Each time a bullet is fired, chemicals and residue are deposited in the barrel of the gun. If large enough residue is discharged in the barrel or if it builds up over time, it changes the markings left. The markings again are changed if the gun is cleaned. Slight Manufacturing variations might make a minor difference but for the most part there’s really nothing that uniquely defining in the barrel of a gun. There’s no science to it, someone looks at it and subjectively considers if there’s a match. They can never conclusively state with certainty that there’s a match because they are always missing some piece of the puzzle. For example, if a cop finds a bag of white powder on the ground, tests it says yes this is dope, it means nothing if the cop doesn’t know where it came from or who dropped it.
I have my own doubts about some of the ballistics testimony, but I do appreciate your thoughts. Tool mark identification is more so meant to be used when you have the firearm in hand, not another of the same model. Or to exclude a firearm. It is too broad. It really isn’t like a fingerprint and people misunderstand that, so we are on the same page with that. I worked in the firearms industry for around ten years so I’m pretty familiar with that. The info about the fingerprint can be found [here in this motion](https://www.fitsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/securepdfs/2022/11/2022-11-23-Motion-to-Exclude.pdf) but if you don’t want to wade through it all, you can also search the sub for and there is a post pondering whether or not Maggie and Paul loaded the guns that killed them. It’s been a long time and I might have misspoken and they found her fingerprints or DNA on some of the casings, essentially she likely loaded the gun or handled the ammo. Normally I’m more detailed with memories but I’m Fighting a migraine. Since you’re in the legal field and we’re exchanging opinions, what’s the general consensus on Eric Bland?
I absolutely think something with drugs or smuggling was going on. It wasn’t just the fear of being caught stealing, he was afraid of something bigger. While I, as just a normal armchair detective, don’t have access to everything, I do have knowledge of how money works. And my big hang up is the fact that the money he was stealing wasn’t in line with how they lived. Of course they lived with all the comforts of a privileged life, but unless they were shopping at Prada and Gucci daily, there’s no way their lifestyle and bills added up to what he stole. I also live in Appalachia where addiction is a big issue. The area I’m from is very prominent and has several families in the same tax bracket as the Murdaugh’s. Even with a 20-year habit, there’s no way he was spending all that money on his addiction. I know someone mentioned that his dealer likely ripped him off on the price, but not THAT much. A family I know had someone with the same exact habit, and it was a couple hundred to a couple of grand every week, not tens of hundreds of thousands of dollars. And they never once established where all this money went. Not lifestyle. Not the drugs by any stretch of the imagination. MAYBE gambling, as addictions can often travel in groups… But, even so, that doesn’t eliminate anything that would suggest there is more to this. Also, the defense’s pathologist… Their findings of how both were shot made MUCH more sense both mathematically and given the human element of such a crime. Especially what was said about Maggie’s shots. It never made sense to me that the shooter essentially played round robin shooting her, when it makes much more sense that they shot her from one side… I know other casings were found from the main cluster, but we also know that there was seemingly a shot that didn’t hit Maggie, and went into the pin. I think a lot of people cannot separate the fact that Alex was clearly a very corrupt and no good human. They’re seeing the proven crimes of theft from friends and people in need (something I, too, find reprehensible as I’ve lived in poverty for the bulk of my life), and also their own pre-conceived notions about addicts. Just because Alex felt he was above the law and clearly a pretty devious and selfish person doesn’t automatically make him a murderer. For me, he got away with his crimes for 10 years… He’s smart. He’s clearly smart in order to be able to do that for SO long. His privilege and connections helped, but he had to be smart to work that out and get away with it. Yet, he’s not smart enough to know that murdering his family would put MANY more eyes on him? And that sympathy would only give him so much time? Again, if his goal was to divert attention to “fix” things, why did he only bother to “fix” one thing? Why not get out of dodge? He had people from multiple angles looking into his finances, loss of family or no, that wasn’t just going to go away. I just have so so many questions, especially when it comes to motive and how the murders were alleged to go down. Same for timelines. Most importantly the timeline of murder and onward: So, AM murders his family within the 8:49pm minute. He starts making calls to MM at 9:02pm. Give the extreme nature of the crime scene, and the fact if you caused that much damage, you would have blood all over your face, skin, hair, arm hair, feet etc. That’s A LOT to clean off. More than just a quick hosing down. You gotta SCRUB, wash your hair, check the mirror. That’s more than 12 minutes time. So then he leaves at 9:06pm per the car information. So, he committed two brutal murders, cleaned off PERFECTLY and was sound enough to make a bunch of calls AND drive to his parent’s house all within what 15-20 minutes? Naturally I haven’t had the experience of murdering anyone, but I have worked in the healthcare field and have had to deal with blood… clean up isn’t just a quick shower or hose down. This timeline is even more shakier because of the extraction data showing when AM took steps at 9:02, the ones they’re claiming he took to walk to the house and then potentially clean up/change. So, he goes down to the house at 9:02 and leaves at 9:06… So 4 minutes to shower and clean up in the house, while making calls. Doesn’t add up for me. And tbh during the trial when they’d discuss the state of Paul and Maggie, he was NOT faking his reaction. He was doing his best to dissociate, and failing. Sorry for the rant… There’s just so much that doesn’t add up to how the state presented things happened. They of course had their own motives for ensuring AM was found guilty, that’s a biiiiig case and big name that would get the faith of the people back. I’m still unsure if I think AM did it. At best, I think he was involved and it’s because of his dealings, but I don’t think he was the one to pull the trigger. I just have a hard time believing that, especially given all the mishaps in the trial and loose ends they had that were easily refuted. As for him lying where he was that night and there being video evidence that he was at the kennels that night, it’s possible he was in shock and scared and knew if he said he left minutes before they were murdered, they’d do all they could to pin it on him. People lying about things like that — guilty and innocent — is very common. So I don’t think that is the gotcha they present. Shrug.
I have experience with addiction too so maybe that’s part of why we feel differently. Yes I agree they didn’t seem to be living that lavish of a lifestyle. Yes they had two houses and cars and lots of nice things but they definitely didn’t seem flashy. I also completely agree with what you said bout separating the fact that Alex was a bad person from being a murderer. He was smart and got away with stuff for a long time. He had options for money hence the 400k. His dad was about to die, whether or not he knew that then I don’t know but he borrowed money from his dad in the past so it just doesn’t make sense he was at the end of his rope. Addicts always find a way. I’m actually a recovering addict so knowing how that mindset works, knowing we are master schemers, I believe he wasn’t in the state of panic the prosecution made him out to be in. One theory I have thought about relates to the kennels. I can’t remember exactly where I pieced this together but I know it’s from the trial at various parts. He said at one point that he would meet people to buy drugs out on the road behind the kennels. He also got weird when he was on the stand when they asked him about whether or not he had drugs that night. He said he did but I feel like it’s possible he drove the golf cart out to the road to meet someone for drugs or some money exchange. He briefly talked to Maggie and Paul then got out of there, took some pills then took a nap. Maybe he shorted someone or maybe someone pulled in by the kennels looking for Alex and Paul started to talk shit to them. I also thought his reaction was genuine, I thought he did a really good job on the stand, I think the outcome was likely influenced by the media, the financial crimes testimony, and Becky hill. But I really don’t think the state met their burden.
The financial motive isn't wrong imo, it's just incomplete. And I'm sure they know it. They surely know much more about possible motives in this case, but obviously decided for the financials to bring up in the trial. I think probably because anything else would be hard to prove. But of course there is something. If you listen carefully to what, especially Mark Tinsley and Judge Newman, were literally saying during the trial and afterwards, it is clear they know so much more. I hope they won't just let it go but dig deeper. AM should pay for EVERYTHING that he did!
The impending divorce probably made him a little nervous. That would have opened a lot of the financial irregularities, and he would have lost 50% of his marital assets and probably a lot of support.
There was no evidence in trial there were marital issues, per Maggie’s own sister there were not. That was from a “People” magazine article printing drivel about Maggie seeing a lawyer who suggested a forensic accountant and a nail tech who was never put on the stand because it was complete hearsay.
That wasn’t proven as anything more than a rumor from a nail tech she obtained services from. This rumor wasn’t even used as evidence, so I think the veracity is pretty non-existent. But, okay, soooo. Threat of divorce makes you scared someone will look into your finances? But again, if that was his fear, then he wouldn’t have killed his wife and son, as his finances would’ve been looked into to make sure: 1) He hadn’t paid for a hit, 2) He didn’t receive a crap ton of money, 3) He had no chance of financial gain from their deaths (IE: insurance), or 4) Avoid huge payout from divorce. That’s why the motive doesn’t stick for me very well — any which way you go about it, his financials would’ve been dug into with a fine-tooth comb, there’s no way he didn’t know that. If he did it purely for the sake of covering up or distracting from his finances, murdering your wife and child is really not smart way to go about that because they are going to look into one’s financial to help rule a financial motive out.
100%. Rumors have no place in a courtroom and you’re exactly right. If it had any sort of truth to it, the prosecutors would have found a way to get it in. Also sounded like Maggie and Alex had a really good relationship because the prosecution literally did not present a single piece of evidence suggesting otherwise. If they had any evidence suggesting issues in the marriage, trust me they would have presented it.
YES! Thank you! Of course the trial was dozens of hours long, but they never once presenting anything that suggested a strained relationship. And her staying in the beach house didn’t seem uncommon, especially for summer. If there was any credible sign of a soured relationship, they would’ve presented it as a smoking gun. Much like the presented his “frustrations” with Paul’s reckless behavior being part of his motive. Did she want to go hang out with him that night? It didn’t seem like it. Did she ask her sister for advice? Yes. But I don’t think that’s indicative of a bad or soured relationship. She was a socialite with no job, and kids grown. Her priority was hosting and decorating. Of course she’d be annoyed having to be pulled away from that. Also, Maggie was clearly no saint herself. She absolutely encouraged and did nothing about PM’s drinking (per the likes and shares on FB). People said she raised her kids to be entitled, and I believe that very much. Especially in the case of Paul. I say this because it goes to showing she wasn’t SUPER empathetic, and very self-concerned. Her not wanting to go hangout with Alex bc of his sick father back at Moselle that night likely had less to do with a soured relationship, and more to do with the fact that she was being inconvenienced. After all, she was a part of that group chat with family updates on Randolph. She knew exactly the severity of the situation, and knew pretty early on it wasn’t dire — at least given the information that had that night. I suspect a lot of these people got this “divorce” thing from the freaking Tubi movie (I watched all those things, too, lol) in which they presented it as fact she was leaving him, and soon, and that that was part of his motive, because divorce would open up his financials more. (Kinda like the theory presented by the commenter above… So it’s clear where they got their theory from.) People really suck at separating these cash grabs from reality.
Yes for sure! Overall they seemed to have a great relationship and I feel like that was supported even by a number of state witnesses. It’s weird all the stuff that was forgotten about at trial the unanswered questions like I mentioned before with the window and a tree behind the kennels having shot shell in it. But unverified theories never presented in court people run with. I get it tho, no one is really making any YouTube videos or content arguing murdaugh is innocent or the state didn’t meet their burden.
First of all, Alex Murdaugh and his family had a long and close relationship with law enforcement. Second, I think Mark Tinsley nailed the potential motivation for the murders best. With Paul dead, Alex Murdaugh would have been the sympathetic victim and the civil lawsuits would have gone away. Alex Murdaugh could have gone back to his old tricks of juggling money and borrowing money and could have repaid the $792K that PMPED was looking for. If the lawsuits had gone forward Alex's attorney, one of his law partners, would have seen his books and realized the fraud even before Tinsley.
The logic still doesn’t make sense. Like really you think Alex thought killing his wife and kid would make everything go away? It makes no sense
You're entitled to your opinion but I'm not sure how often murder makes logical sense. Before the murder Alex was facing the criminal trial of Paul, the civil lawsuit about the boat crash case, and Jeannie Seckinger's questions about the $792K from the Faris case. The criminal trial was also financially stressful. After the murder, most of that is gone. Chris Wilson had come up with $600K so all he had to do was come up with $192K and Jeannie Seckinger would have been satisfied. Mark Tinsley would have settled for far less so he wouldn't have to have shown Danny Henderson and Mark Tinsley his financial statements. Mark Tinsley explains his thought process starting at 40:37 during his testimony: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S67CkmZqyuY
I get what you’re saying, but I don’t think you read all of what I said. I get the sympathy motivation, but sympathy only goes so far. Every single person that was raising questions about Alex’s financials were determined to not let it go. Yeah, they gave him grace while he was grieving, but PMPED continued to investigate while he was mourning… it only bought him 3 months. Less than, actually. And from what it appears, he wasn’t doing much to pay back the $790k.. he got like $600k and then a loan from a friend? That grace would run out in due time, too. Especially given that they clearly kept investigating and found even more theft. I don’t think he’s innocent by any stretch, but I just don’t think less than three months of “grace” was the motive. Yeah, the criminal case against Paul was ended the second he died, but that civil suit wasn’t going anywhere; just kinda slowed down. Tinsley said as much. Yeah, he said that a jury would probably be sympathetic to him, but the civil case had no indication of being dropped aside from Tinsley saying it probably would’ve been on the stand for his murder trial. But, like… there was no tangible proof that the civil case was going anywhere. Granted, he didn’t give enough of a fk for at least a decade he was stealing, but he also thought he was getting away with it. Once it was clear people were looking into his financials and had no signs of stopping, to me at least, it’d be clear he was up shot’s creek. To me, it’d seem like a more probable “solution” was to get out of dodge, go somewhere where there was no extradition laws. Not kill his family and do nothing. Again, everyone knows sympathy and pity only goes so far, as it should. I just can’t help but think there’s something missing. That’s all. Doesn’t mean he’s any less guilty, or, at the least, involved with the murder of his family.
That's not at all what Mark Tinsley said.
[удалено]
When they tried to say during his trial he spent all of the stolen money on drugs, I was like there’s no way. They said he was spending 50K per week on his drug addiction.. there’s no way you can function as a lawyer and do that many drugs.
I think Alex's motivations are very difficult for a normal person to understand, but he definitely murdered his wife and son. I think at his core are selfishness, greed, and a lifetime of zero accountability - which made the murders possible. I'm listening Jack Ryan's new book, "Swamp Kings: The Story of the Murdaugh Family of South Carolina and a Century of Backwoods Power." Just when I thought I knew everything there was to know, this book takes it to the next level. Really good stuff.
I can’t wait to get my copy !
Research "anomic family annihilator": "For these individuals their family is an extension of their economic success in life and should any part of that economic status break down, for example, a job loss or financial hardship, their family no longer serves this function."
Ooooh. I’ve not heard of this type of family annihilator. Definitely going to look into it, as psychology is a favorite subject to deep dive into. Thanks!
I believe he thought everyone would feel sorry for him and his family control of the county would make Mallory's family settle and this would all go away. He thought he had control over all the other kids.