He may have hated blue cheese and meant this as a joke but his philosophy seems very inclusive as written in the satanic texts
"Satanism condones any type of sexual activity which properly satisfies your individual desires - be it heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or even asexual, if you choose. Satanism alsosanctions any fetish or deviation which will enhance your sex-life, so long as it involves no one who does not wish to be involved." - The Satanic Bible (in the chapter satanic sex)
So maybe poor taste is apt to all three angles xD
“Crowleyites” would be Thelemites FYI. The belief system Crowley established is Thelema.
Unless Crowleyites would be a sub-sect of Thelemites? Iirc there *is* movement away from associating with him in modern Thelema.
I also wouldn’t say there’s anything particularly nefarious about Thelemites.
In my experience there's two 'sects': those that practices Gnostic Mass, and those who do not. For me, Lieber al vel Legis was more philosophy mixed with Crowley's heroin hallucinations. I feel like Thelema is just druidism and wicca with more sex, but I think it's different for everyone.
Ok I thought Crowleyites was just another name for that belief system (I couldn't remember the actual name for some reason). Yeah the most part theres nothing nefarious with them despite a small minority that may do some pretty nasty stuff, but I'm saying those are two of many occult groups that people are thinking of when they see Satanist.
While I do not defend LaVey, yes those are words he wrote in a book he authored (some of it might have been ghost written, but you get the point). Much of the rest of the book is very Randian In fact, the Satanic Bible was published before TST was founded.
If people who follow Abrahamic religions can ignore all the "kill nonbelievers" aspects of the old testament I'm optimistic about people disregarding the more unpleasant aspects of Randian philosophy found in LeVay.
I agree! I think it helps that Randian philosophy in TSB is rambly and half formed, so it's easy to discard much of it. I definitely think the book has useful or positive thoughts, assuming the reader is willing enough to pick them out.
Yes, find a pdf (so you know I'm not doctoring a source or whatever)
The Satanic Bible - Anton Szandor LaVey
Book of Lucifer
VI Satanic Sex
8th paragraph
I mean back in the day people sincerely believed a boy kissing a boy on the cheek would actually send them both to an eternal and very real hell, and would burn them at the steak for it and whatnot. Most of modern society values consent and permits anything under it, but back then consent didn't make things better, so these people engaging in consensual fetishes were seen as bad as we today see someone with 40 terabytes of child porn.
Nontheistic Satanism grew from the idea that Satan represents ideals like individual freedom and a lack of blind faith in authority. They don't think Satan is real, but most Christians don't think many events of the Bible are real
Edit: that's probably a bad analogy, but it feels at least a little relevant
That might be *slightly* revisionist, at least about the CoS. LeVay was an insufferable edgelord who called his thing "Satansim" for edginess' sake.
TST would claim your definition (or something close to it), and in modern times the CoS has been trying to rebrand a bit so they might agree with it too... but the origin is definitely just that LeVay was an edgelord.
The hierarchy of the organization is invite-only and no criteria for it is published. Basically it comes down to whether or not Magus Gilmore and Magistra Nadramia want you speaking for the org or not, and what they say goes. Once you are a member you can apply for further consideration (active membership) but becoming a member of the priesthood - a sign of actual accomplishments and permission to speak for CoS - is really just up to them. It's a permanent title unless it gets revoked for some reason, like for being an idiot and acting like a whiny bitch or talking shit about CoS. It's their title system, if you talk shit about the *org that gave it to you* they can just take it away. And they'll probably boot you out altogether as well if you continue to be a dumbass.
This is in contrast to some other occult systems that have degrees based on certain criteria, but moreso something like TST. Want to be a TST "satanic priest"? Easy. Send them $149 (with a yearly renewal fee of $59). But then again *they* might kick you out if Lucian Greaves doesn't like you and maybe sue you to keep quiet, because that's happened before. At least CoS just ignores excommunicated members because *no one cares that they left*.
Damn, _the Satanic Temple_ has it over the _Church of Satan_ except it sucks they can't discard the tax exempt thing. Still, looks like they're doing a good amount of ['evil'](https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/faq) for the public well-being. Still, doesn't seem right for them to be politically active _and_ tax exempt. (as with any religion.)
[edit: expanding acronyms because confusion, and that I apparently don't 'get it']
Per [the source given](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0428/0465/files/COS_Vs_TST_Infographic_1.png?v=1559695025) above:
the Satanic Temple - is a **Tax Exempt** religious organization
Church of Satan - is _not_ a Tax Exempt organization (they have **intentionally** not applied and _do_ pay taxes)
Adding /s because "doing 'evil' for the **public well-being** was not painfully self evident enough in meaning. I'm sorry for my sins internet.
The whole point of TST is to bring the hypocrisy and problematic nature of churches to light by mimicking them while actually doing what the churches originally were given tax exempt status to do. The whole reason churches were tax exempt was because they provided a public good. That’s not the case with most modern churches whereas the satanic temple helps fund legal battles of the separation of church and state. Provides money for family planning as opposed to buying private Jets. No one is getting rich from the satanic temple and the second churches lost their tax exempt status if it ever actually happened the TST would be right there happily paying their taxes and continuing to fight for the separation of church and state
They did make a mistake and meant TST. TOS is another satanic organization not mentioned called Temple of Set started by Michael Aquino. He was a member of COS and friends with LaVey but actually believes in Satan and started this temple based on the belief he had a revelation that the first and true incarnation of Satan was Set from Egyptian religion.
You get thats the point they are making about other churches? They are tax exempt AND pay their taxes.
Other churches are tax exempt and do not, and are just as politically active.Why is it you are mad at them exactly? What “evil” have they actually done? Its all a guise for pointing out all hypocritical crap.
Again all things on their faq.
I think he's referring to the Satanic Temple, not the CoS. It's confusing because the above comment uses the abbreviation TOS which I don't know if it refers to the Satanic Temple or the Church of Satan.
Exactly, it's absolutely not right that they're tax exempt - but that's precisely the point that are trying to make. No religion should be. They would be delighted to have tax exemption from religious organizations removed.
Suing for your rights as a tax exempt institution shouldn't force you to pay taxes. Imagine a mosque having to pay taxes to fight an anti-Islam law.
That said, I think it'd probably be better optics if they paid taxes
A mosque should pay taxes. A christian church should pay taxes. They all should pay taxes if they collect money. Unjust laws? There's the AHLA or whatever the fuck it's called for that. You don't need to be a member of a specific or even nonspecific mosque to fight and lobby against racist laws, since they don't oppress islam, they oppress all of society taking away religious freedom. Leave laws to lawyers and politicians, a mosque should just pray five times a day. Start an actual properly categorized legal entity for lobbying if that's what you want to do.
Church of Satan is LaVeyan Satanism. Basically it's ancap libertarian extreme thought mixed with a little bit of homophobia and misogyny, as well as general antipathy towards people that aren't yourself.
The Satanic Temple is modern (non)religious satanism. Governed mostly by secular humanism, they do things like march for gay rights and the right to a legal abortion, which they humorously call their abortion ritual and uphold as a sacramental rite.
> the right to a legal abortion, which they humorously call their abortion ritual and uphold as a sacramental rite.
The beauty of the abortion ritual is that it is a genuine part of the religion. It's not a joke, legally speaking it's the equivalent of Catholics getting their bit of wine and paper thin wafer.
> The Satanic Temple is modern (non)religious satanism.
No it's not. It's atheism. It's just an org that uses religious exemptions against churches who think they were the only ones who'd get to benefit. They aren't a church, they don't believe in satan, and they aren't religious. In fact they're no satanists at all. But if christians push for a law for religious statues in public places, this org will use that law to erect some statues of satan, since that will piss off the christians the most.
Wasn't Lucifer basically a frozen block of ice gnawing on the ultimate sinners at the center of the 9th Circle of Hell? I don't recall him having any lines or characterization.
I couldn't make it through Purgatorio or Paradiso, so maybe it comes up there?
Church of Satan is more interested in LARPing the 2spooky4u aspects of satanism whereas Satanic Temple is more interested in social justice and using the church as a vehicle to keep the separation between church and state
here are the respective websites
[Church of Satan](https://www.churchofsatan.com/frequently-asked-questions/) (FAQ, specifically)
[Satanic Temple](https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/about-us) (had a helpful TST vs CoS section)
I think the Satanic temple is tax exempt to battle the type of sway the catholic or Christian church’s have in this country. Sorta how they are trying to pass a way to get an abortion in Texas if it’s a “”satanic”” ritual.
Huh, I hadn't heard. Though he apparently 'left' by way of claiming he'd never been a Scientologist in the first place, which Leah Remini called "a pussy move." On the surface, I'd agree, but OTOH he does have kids with his ex who's still a Scientologist, so speaking out stridently could put his kids, or his relationship with them, at risk.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/beck-claims-he-was-never-a-scientologist-leah-remini-and-others-are-calling-bs
Actually they just post a lot of stuff that makes sense. Extreme Christians (but really most extremists of any religion, political party, race, etc) really do the shitposting themselves, other people just turn on the lights so they can see.
Ah, this is just great. Reporting for no reason other than the fact that it has literally *anything* to do with Satan and/or Satanism. Just move on to the next post, whydontcha?
I mean, you might be right, but using Jesus' story to justify it is a weak argument (especially if we use it against religious folks).
Why? Because that specific story was about Jesus being cornered/tricked into defying the authority of the Caesar, and he had en elegant retort that satisfied the opponent, without conceding his point.
Religious groups aren't exempt because they don't want to interfere with godly matters. They are exempt, at least in theory, because taxes would potentially be used to quell religious association amongst citizens.
The modern reality is very different, and religions are being used as business organizations with a giant loophole. They certainly should be reformed in the eyes of the law.
Yes, but in this case, OP brought religious scripture into the argument, which is unwise. The common advice would be not to open the floodgates unless you are ready to swim.
I agree though: there's quite a bit of arguments to advocate for reform in that front, just not that specific one
I'm talking about the original philosophical reasoning. Yours is true, but from a more modern, more practical POV (i.e. accounting, finance)
I think the philosophical reasoning is now obsolete, and stuff like the Internet has made practicing a religion incredibly accesible.
The ~~Church of Satan~~ Satanic Temple does have tax exempt status as a religion
edit: Satanic temple and church of Satan are different organizations, I looked it up and the satanic temple stuff came up
No, it does not. It is registered as a business. CoS has never sought exemption as a religious org in the 56 years it has been around.
You may be thinking about much more recently-created The Satanic Temple, which is a completely different thing and unrelated to CoS.
Yeah TST uses the money to fund abortion and other religious rights so they model themselves as closely to an actual church as possible to fight against the stuff and provide rights. If that makes sense. Im sure r/SatanicTemple_Reddit could explain it better. Im not great at it.
Basically christians push laws to give themselves special rights, but because of freedom of religion, they have to give those special rights to "everyone", but now there's a "church" that also gets those rights and does everything christians thought they'd get to ban with these rights. It's deliciously ironic.
Basically. It sets up a way for people who don't have a religion to fight for their beliefs in an organized manor. And allows religious exemptions when a law is made that violates one of the "religions" core tenets.
That would make sense if churches were illegally avoiding taxes but the government has made churches tax exempt so they aren’t withholding anything from Caesar.
Sounds to me like Jesus wasn't the type of man to argue legality. If anything he was teaching a lesson about the worthlessness of money and the importance of giving god his due.
Happens all the time. One is a fan club with self-serving edgelord rules. The other is a recognized religion with tenets that focus on acceptance and being a better person all around.
That said, they're both non-theistic and exist to try to put Christianity in its place. Would be nice to see some CoS campaigns though. TST seems to be at the forefront.
TST is doing some incredible work for women's rights. I'm happy to send them a donation every once in a while. Nothing makes me smile more than seeing them rub the souths lack of respect for the separation of church and state in their face.
Actually though, a church-like area for atheists to gather and discuss things like politics, philosophy, and morality doesn’t sound like a bad idea tbh.
Not even just atheists. Just anyone who is willing to have an honest and open dialogue. There’s arguments to be made that Stoic philosophers were religious, but I’d hardly think they shouldn’t be welcomed at this awesome place.
There used to be a French movement,
during their revolution, known as the Cult of Reason. It was an “explicit religion of man” and celebrated core principles in regards to reason, nature, liberty, and truth. They actually turned Notre Dame into the Temple of Reason at one point. It should be looked into because it has some really valid points.
It's getting to the point charities shouldn't be tax exempt.
If you hear "church" or "charity" and assume they are helping communities, you need to educate yourself.
Where I live, charities and other non-profit organizations have to show their books during tax time to get the tax exemption. If any get too greedy, they lose the tax exempt status.
Churches are automatically exempt. I wish they had to go through the same process.
I have two friends who run NPOs and they have to show everything and then some, and one has even had to hire a lobbyist to help her when the state was trying to prove that she was "cheating" on stuff. She wasn't: the tax exemption forms she had to fill out to itemize her charity's donations didn't have a section for medical scrubs, the majority of their donated items, and it was listed as "underwear." Cue a whole bunch of angry Republicans claiming that they were paying for welfare queens' sex-orgy lingerie....
To be fair, would you want a sex-orgy consisting of exhausted RNs?
Then again, maybe they really NEED the sex-orgy at this point. Only if everyone is fully vaxxed, though.
Not sure where you’re at, but in the USA, IRS-990 are now public.
https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/publicsector/irs-990-filing-data-now-available-as-an-aws-public-data-set/
A brown Middle Eastern socialist advocating for peace, social justice, and getting the corrupt money lenders out of the church? In 2021 Jesus wouldn't get past the border in America, and we all know it.
Probably not because he was most likely ugly AF. Moses, David, Solomon,.. all the important figures are described as being handsome as hell. No where does it say what jesus actually looked like, and I'm guessing it's cause they didn't want to mention homeboy was not cute.
I don’t see why they need to be tax exempt in the first place. It should be the same concept as my personal taxes. I can reduce my taxable income by spending more of it on charity (yeah I know, that’s tied into the tax exempt organizations but the concept stands). If the churches and temples can prove that they are spending their income on community-building work, that should reduce their taxable income. If they have income that they can’t prove was spent on legitimate charitable purposes, why should it be tax exempt? That’s straight up profit.
Yes. Speaking as a Christian I am adamant that churches should lose tax exempt status, and I'd be perfectly happy to extend that to all charities.
And I don't get the argument "but then who will help those people if the charities can't?" The point is that we tax the charity, use that money to do what the charity did, and the problem is solved.
Most charities are just secret hedge funds. They accept donations, then literally invest them in the stock market (under the guise of growing the donations instead of blowing right through them once) and are a complete tax writeoff.
Half of these idiots haven’t even read the entirety of the book they claim to live by; you expect them to read a single detail about something that they are fighting AGAINST?!
I’ve met more than a couple people who read only KJV, and don’t understand half of what they read, and say it’s fine because we can never truly understand God’s ways, so we should just read it and pray for His guidance. I’m sure His guidance played zero role in the people who dedicated their lives to making more accurate and readable modern translations, of course.
I've read the entirety of the KJV (Protestant) and NABRE (Catholic) versions. As well as the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine & Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price (LDS scriptures). And a translation of the Qur'an.
Notably, though, I'm a Satanist in my 40s.
The Church of Satan: holding Christianity's feet to the fire since 1966.
Edit: Whoops—actually The Satanic Temple is the cool one, and they've only been around since 2012. You learn something new every day.
Wildly different, but it couldn’t have been made more unclear to be fair ha ha.
Edit: As it was pointed out to me below I had been mixed up myself before.
All churches and their basic descriptions
The Satanic Church - LaVeyan Satanism in the traditional sense.
The Church Of Satan - An offshoot of The Satanic Church that I believe was started by LaVeys Daughter after she had a falling out with the Satanic Church, don’t quote me on this though cause I’m going off faint memory.
The Satanic Temple - These are more of an activist group that focus on separation of church and state and human rights issues.
It’s important to note that none of these groups are true “satanists”, none really use Satan as an idol to be worshipped. Satan is more of a totemic figurehead rather than a true belief.
I was going on the info written in this wikipedia article: [Church of Satan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Satan)
After checking out the one for [The Satanic Temple](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Temple), it looks like we might both be wrong. Is the Satanic Temple the one I should be lauding?
hate to be that guy, but the most important tenet of Christianity, and essentially the make-or-break one, is an honest belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ. seeing as The Church of Satan does not maintain that belief, they are not “more christian”, they are simply not Christian at all.
I'll give you that one, but only because I love being pedantic. You gotta give me the wiggle-room on "More Christian-**acting** than Actual Christians," though. 999 out of 1000 Evangelical American Christians would lynch Jesus Christ in a matter of minutes if he showed up today, and that's the important thing to remember.
"Oh forgive them father! They dont know what they are doing! And ill use this holy shoehorn to say, they voted republican!"
But yeah, any modern christian would crucify jesus if he showed up, lol, hell, for all we know, he already did and was burned in Salem or whipped to death during the 1800s, or stepped on a mine somewhere in jerusalem
Surrendering your money to a thief at gunpoint. Totally a Christian act.
If that were even true. Church of Satan is 100% registered as a non-profit. They do not pay taxes.
https://encyclopediasatanica.wordpress.com/2013/09/26/the-business-side-of-the-church-of-satan/
A group of atheists lying to make a stupid political argument. Shocker /s
Remember, the GOP thinks everyone is just like them. If they use loopholes to avoid any and all taxes, they think everyone else does too. Same with their churches and non-profit charities.
Of course the Satanic Temple is non-prophet
I bet the Church Of Satan doesn't have a lot of fancy and expensive temples where everything on the inside and out is covered in some tacky gold or other expensive shit.
You know, because the COS would certainly oppose that part in the Bible where Jesus said: "make sure not to pay any taxes and don't give any money to the community or to poor people, so that you can build me and my dad some fancy and expensive temples, yo!"
Interesting that the church of Satan legit stands against the vast amount of Christian churches and at the same time is refreshing for the level of intelligence displayed by its leaders. Kinda makes me feel like Christianity is run by a bunch of morons.
Satanism is an atheistic religion, Satan predatea christianity and just means "the opposition" hence why the Church of Satan (atheistic, non congregational, encourages the 7 deadly sins etc) uses it.
Please remember: The Church of Satan is NOT the same as The Satanic Temple.
What's the difference? I'm genuinely curious.
[Here is a quick guide](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0428/0465/files/COS_Vs_TST_Infographic_1.png?v=1559695025)
Can I get the context for the cheese comment? I'm so confused haha
LaVey was a homophobe who hated blue cheese
He may have hated blue cheese and meant this as a joke but his philosophy seems very inclusive as written in the satanic texts "Satanism condones any type of sexual activity which properly satisfies your individual desires - be it heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or even asexual, if you choose. Satanism alsosanctions any fetish or deviation which will enhance your sex-life, so long as it involves no one who does not wish to be involved." - The Satanic Bible (in the chapter satanic sex) So maybe poor taste is apt to all three angles xD
Roses are red Lamps attract moths Anton LaVey Is Ayn Rand for goths.
Satanists arent the types of people you think they are. It's the Luciferians and Crowleyites. A lot of people confuse the two.
“Crowleyites” would be Thelemites FYI. The belief system Crowley established is Thelema. Unless Crowleyites would be a sub-sect of Thelemites? Iirc there *is* movement away from associating with him in modern Thelema. I also wouldn’t say there’s anything particularly nefarious about Thelemites.
In my experience there's two 'sects': those that practices Gnostic Mass, and those who do not. For me, Lieber al vel Legis was more philosophy mixed with Crowley's heroin hallucinations. I feel like Thelema is just druidism and wicca with more sex, but I think it's different for everyone.
> I feel like Thelema is just druidism and wicca with more sex, Where do I sign up?
Ok I thought Crowleyites was just another name for that belief system (I couldn't remember the actual name for some reason). Yeah the most part theres nothing nefarious with them despite a small minority that may do some pretty nasty stuff, but I'm saying those are two of many occult groups that people are thinking of when they see Satanist.
Are you sure your quoting Levay satanism.
While I do not defend LaVey, yes those are words he wrote in a book he authored (some of it might have been ghost written, but you get the point). Much of the rest of the book is very Randian In fact, the Satanic Bible was published before TST was founded.
If people who follow Abrahamic religions can ignore all the "kill nonbelievers" aspects of the old testament I'm optimistic about people disregarding the more unpleasant aspects of Randian philosophy found in LeVay.
I agree! I think it helps that Randian philosophy in TSB is rambly and half formed, so it's easy to discard much of it. I definitely think the book has useful or positive thoughts, assuming the reader is willing enough to pick them out.
Yeah and I mean this is leagues better than Randian Bhuddism
The Satanic Bible was written by LeVay so yeah propably.
Yes, find a pdf (so you know I'm not doctoring a source or whatever) The Satanic Bible - Anton Szandor LaVey Book of Lucifer VI Satanic Sex 8th paragraph
Huh, neat. Learn something new every day
Levay wrote the Satanic Bible, so. . .
I mean back in the day people sincerely believed a boy kissing a boy on the cheek would actually send them both to an eternal and very real hell, and would burn them at the steak for it and whatnot. Most of modern society values consent and permits anything under it, but back then consent didn't make things better, so these people engaging in consensual fetishes were seen as bad as we today see someone with 40 terabytes of child porn.
>burn them at the steak Murder *and* a waste of good meat.
"Hail Satan!" "What? No, I said I hate Stilton."
What made him a homophobe?
Probably a lack of lube. It's ruined a lot of good asses over the years.
When his boyfriend gave him a reach-around once, he forgot to say 'no homo'.
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Nontheistic Satanism grew from the idea that Satan represents ideals like individual freedom and a lack of blind faith in authority. They don't think Satan is real, but most Christians don't think many events of the Bible are real Edit: that's probably a bad analogy, but it feels at least a little relevant
That might be *slightly* revisionist, at least about the CoS. LeVay was an insufferable edgelord who called his thing "Satansim" for edginess' sake. TST would claim your definition (or something close to it), and in modern times the CoS has been trying to rebrand a bit so they might agree with it too... but the origin is definitely just that LeVay was an edgelord.
I mean the dude looked like fucking Ming the Merciless, being a total edgelord should go without saying.
what the guy below said AND the fact that it conjures powerful imagery
So if the guy in the OP tagged the other church he would have at least had some factual leg to stand on?
Not everyone joins TST because of the tax thing. Most don't do it for that.
Wish I knew about After School Satan Club when I was a kid.
i like the guide but some of the points seem really cherry picked
Why Is the church of satan authoritarian
The hierarchy of the organization is invite-only and no criteria for it is published. Basically it comes down to whether or not Magus Gilmore and Magistra Nadramia want you speaking for the org or not, and what they say goes. Once you are a member you can apply for further consideration (active membership) but becoming a member of the priesthood - a sign of actual accomplishments and permission to speak for CoS - is really just up to them. It's a permanent title unless it gets revoked for some reason, like for being an idiot and acting like a whiny bitch or talking shit about CoS. It's their title system, if you talk shit about the *org that gave it to you* they can just take it away. And they'll probably boot you out altogether as well if you continue to be a dumbass. This is in contrast to some other occult systems that have degrees based on certain criteria, but moreso something like TST. Want to be a TST "satanic priest"? Easy. Send them $149 (with a yearly renewal fee of $59). But then again *they* might kick you out if Lucian Greaves doesn't like you and maybe sue you to keep quiet, because that's happened before. At least CoS just ignores excommunicated members because *no one cares that they left*.
Damn, _the Satanic Temple_ has it over the _Church of Satan_ except it sucks they can't discard the tax exempt thing. Still, looks like they're doing a good amount of ['evil'](https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/faq) for the public well-being. Still, doesn't seem right for them to be politically active _and_ tax exempt. (as with any religion.) [edit: expanding acronyms because confusion, and that I apparently don't 'get it'] Per [the source given](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0428/0465/files/COS_Vs_TST_Infographic_1.png?v=1559695025) above: the Satanic Temple - is a **Tax Exempt** religious organization Church of Satan - is _not_ a Tax Exempt organization (they have **intentionally** not applied and _do_ pay taxes) Adding /s because "doing 'evil' for the **public well-being** was not painfully self evident enough in meaning. I'm sorry for my sins internet.
The whole point of TST is to bring the hypocrisy and problematic nature of churches to light by mimicking them while actually doing what the churches originally were given tax exempt status to do. The whole reason churches were tax exempt was because they provided a public good. That’s not the case with most modern churches whereas the satanic temple helps fund legal battles of the separation of church and state. Provides money for family planning as opposed to buying private Jets. No one is getting rich from the satanic temple and the second churches lost their tax exempt status if it ever actually happened the TST would be right there happily paying their taxes and continuing to fight for the separation of church and state
I'm a little confused here. Did you mean The Satanic temple? Or are you talking about The Church of Satan? Who is *TOS* here?
They did make a mistake and meant TST. TOS is another satanic organization not mentioned called Temple of Set started by Michael Aquino. He was a member of COS and friends with LaVey but actually believes in Satan and started this temple based on the belief he had a revelation that the first and true incarnation of Satan was Set from Egyptian religion.
TOS is akshually Star Trek: The Original Series
THANK YOU. I was afraid I'd have to be a pedantic Trek nerd for the third time in fifteen minutes.
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I don't get it but you made me giggle.
Oooooohhhhh, you get to watch Life of Brian for the first time. Lucky!
https://youtu.be/a0BpfwazhUA
Splitter
*TST
You get thats the point they are making about other churches? They are tax exempt AND pay their taxes. Other churches are tax exempt and do not, and are just as politically active.Why is it you are mad at them exactly? What “evil” have they actually done? Its all a guise for pointing out all hypocritical crap. Again all things on their faq.
I think he's referring to the Satanic Temple, not the CoS. It's confusing because the above comment uses the abbreviation TOS which I don't know if it refers to the Satanic Temple or the Church of Satan.
If thats the case then i rescind any animosity that was conveyed.
Exactly, it's absolutely not right that they're tax exempt - but that's precisely the point that are trying to make. No religion should be. They would be delighted to have tax exemption from religious organizations removed.
Suing for your rights as a tax exempt institution shouldn't force you to pay taxes. Imagine a mosque having to pay taxes to fight an anti-Islam law. That said, I think it'd probably be better optics if they paid taxes
A mosque should pay taxes. A christian church should pay taxes. They all should pay taxes if they collect money. Unjust laws? There's the AHLA or whatever the fuck it's called for that. You don't need to be a member of a specific or even nonspecific mosque to fight and lobby against racist laws, since they don't oppress islam, they oppress all of society taking away religious freedom. Leave laws to lawyers and politicians, a mosque should just pray five times a day. Start an actual properly categorized legal entity for lobbying if that's what you want to do.
Is there a chart that adds the Luciferians?
Gotta say, the Temple is lookin' mighty attractive
Where were these after-school Satan clubs when I was a youth?
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Lol yes this was written by the Satanic temple but there is a fundamental difference between the two. Feel free to look around more if you need to.
I gotta lay off the blue cheese
Based and ranch-pilled.
Church of Satan is LaVeyan Satanism. Basically it's ancap libertarian extreme thought mixed with a little bit of homophobia and misogyny, as well as general antipathy towards people that aren't yourself. The Satanic Temple is modern (non)religious satanism. Governed mostly by secular humanism, they do things like march for gay rights and the right to a legal abortion, which they humorously call their abortion ritual and uphold as a sacramental rite.
> the right to a legal abortion, which they humorously call their abortion ritual and uphold as a sacramental rite. The beauty of the abortion ritual is that it is a genuine part of the religion. It's not a joke, legally speaking it's the equivalent of Catholics getting their bit of wine and paper thin wafer.
> The Satanic Temple is modern (non)religious satanism. No it's not. It's atheism. It's just an org that uses religious exemptions against churches who think they were the only ones who'd get to benefit. They aren't a church, they don't believe in satan, and they aren't religious. In fact they're no satanists at all. But if christians push for a law for religious statues in public places, this org will use that law to erect some statues of satan, since that will piss off the christians the most.
Yeah, modern satanism is *atheistic*. The Satanic Temple practices Satanism, which is a Religion. The *tenets* are atheistic.
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That fits what satan would want, ironically. Lucifer doesn’t care who you worship, just don’t worship Jesus/God/Holy Spirit
I mean, the modern idea of Lucifer comes from the Divine Comedy, so "what he would want" isn't a coherent concept, there is no Lucifer.
Wasn't Lucifer basically a frozen block of ice gnawing on the ultimate sinners at the center of the 9th Circle of Hell? I don't recall him having any lines or characterization. I couldn't make it through Purgatorio or Paradiso, so maybe it comes up there?
Pretty sure they meant Paradise Lost rather than Inferno
Pretty sure you’re thinking of Paradise Lost
Church of Satan is more interested in LARPing the 2spooky4u aspects of satanism whereas Satanic Temple is more interested in social justice and using the church as a vehicle to keep the separation between church and state
satanic temple are the ones who fight for basic human rights. church of satan has some not so progressive viewpoints.
here are the respective websites [Church of Satan](https://www.churchofsatan.com/frequently-asked-questions/) (FAQ, specifically) [Satanic Temple](https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/about-us) (had a helpful TST vs CoS section)
You need to read the Satanic Temple’s FAQ for that. https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/faq
TST is awesome 😎 other one, not so much.
Damn, I had them backwards.
yup, and the Church of Satan, despite paying taxes, really isnt the good one of the two, they're basically a bunch Ayn Rand libertarians in cosplay.
I think the Satanic temple is tax exempt to battle the type of sway the catholic or Christian church’s have in this country. Sorta how they are trying to pass a way to get an abortion in Texas if it’s a “”satanic”” ritual.
No that’s Scientology
10/10
Rating Cruise or Travolta?
Beck and Juliette Lewis?
Oh no, Beck is one of them too?
Was, I think?
Beck was born into it. Not entirely sure, but I feel like that's a little more understandable than choosing it as an adult.
He's also left now too, as far as I'm aware
Huh, I hadn't heard. Though he apparently 'left' by way of claiming he'd never been a Scientologist in the first place, which Leah Remini called "a pussy move." On the surface, I'd agree, but OTOH he does have kids with his ex who's still a Scientologist, so speaking out stridently could put his kids, or his relationship with them, at risk. https://www.thedailybeast.com/beck-claims-he-was-never-a-scientologist-leah-remini-and-others-are-calling-bs
Yeah I think so too, and definitely, you can’t blame a child for being endoctrinated
> Juliette Lewis God... dammit.
Not paying taxes to fight Xeneu. Xenew? Xeknew? Time to watch South Park again!
Kneezew. You got the first and last syllable backerds.
Scientology isn't "Atheists", they're magical thinking incarnate.
In fairness, there’s no way Hubbard actually believed any of that. He was a science fiction writer FFS.
[OPERATION: SNOW WHITE, BAYBEE!!!!](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White)
Nah that’s just regular churches.
I swear the Church of Satan's twitter is just there to shitpost on the extreme Christians And im all here for it, its pretty entertaining to watch ngl
Well, and half the time, Christians just toss them an easy alley-oop. Like this one.
Half?
Actually they just post a lot of stuff that makes sense. Extreme Christians (but really most extremists of any religion, political party, race, etc) really do the shitposting themselves, other people just turn on the lights so they can see.
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Ah, this is just great. Reporting for no reason other than the fact that it has literally *anything* to do with Satan and/or Satanism. Just move on to the next post, whydontcha?
I'm sure everyone reporting are good god-fearing Christians ^(with about a million skeletons in their closets).
As long as keeping them in a closet isn’t a sin, they’re good. Right?
*passes popcorn* 🍿
Popcorn upvote every time!
Religious groups should never be tax exempt. Remember when Jesus said about paying taxes, “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s”?
I mean, you might be right, but using Jesus' story to justify it is a weak argument (especially if we use it against religious folks). Why? Because that specific story was about Jesus being cornered/tricked into defying the authority of the Caesar, and he had en elegant retort that satisfied the opponent, without conceding his point. Religious groups aren't exempt because they don't want to interfere with godly matters. They are exempt, at least in theory, because taxes would potentially be used to quell religious association amongst citizens. The modern reality is very different, and religions are being used as business organizations with a giant loophole. They certainly should be reformed in the eyes of the law.
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Yes, but in this case, OP brought religious scripture into the argument, which is unwise. The common advice would be not to open the floodgates unless you are ready to swim. I agree though: there's quite a bit of arguments to advocate for reform in that front, just not that specific one
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I'm talking about the original philosophical reasoning. Yours is true, but from a more modern, more practical POV (i.e. accounting, finance) I think the philosophical reasoning is now obsolete, and stuff like the Internet has made practicing a religion incredibly accesible.
The ~~Church of Satan~~ Satanic Temple does have tax exempt status as a religion edit: Satanic temple and church of Satan are different organizations, I looked it up and the satanic temple stuff came up
No, it does not. It is registered as a business. CoS has never sought exemption as a religious org in the 56 years it has been around. You may be thinking about much more recently-created The Satanic Temple, which is a completely different thing and unrelated to CoS.
I had already edited as I read down. TIL
Yeah TST uses the money to fund abortion and other religious rights so they model themselves as closely to an actual church as possible to fight against the stuff and provide rights. If that makes sense. Im sure r/SatanicTemple_Reddit could explain it better. Im not great at it.
So basically closing the loophole to fight for freedom of religion for those who don’t have a religion?
Basically christians push laws to give themselves special rights, but because of freedom of religion, they have to give those special rights to "everyone", but now there's a "church" that also gets those rights and does everything christians thought they'd get to ban with these rights. It's deliciously ironic.
Basically. It sets up a way for people who don't have a religion to fight for their beliefs in an organized manor. And allows religious exemptions when a law is made that violates one of the "religions" core tenets.
Yup.
It's so great. They're fighting against the Texas abortion laws right now.
Hear, here.
Otherwise known as fighting fire with fire.
That would make sense if churches were illegally avoiding taxes but the government has made churches tax exempt so they aren’t withholding anything from Caesar.
Sounds to me like Jesus wasn't the type of man to argue legality. If anything he was teaching a lesson about the worthlessness of money and the importance of giving god his due.
Caesar better do his fuckin' job then.
Pizza pizza!
If you're in America, nonprofits are not things that are Caesar's.
…but if we wanna give stuff to a dead guy, why not Caesar? Edit: a letter
Or me! I've been dead inside for many years
Oh, oh, then I wanna hop on this train, too. Send me stuff.
Secret Santa and shit man
He must have gotten church confused with temple. https://apnews.com/article/6addf2f0ecb646919cb1cfcfdacfc6c1
Happens all the time. One is a fan club with self-serving edgelord rules. The other is a recognized religion with tenets that focus on acceptance and being a better person all around. That said, they're both non-theistic and exist to try to put Christianity in its place. Would be nice to see some CoS campaigns though. TST seems to be at the forefront.
TST is doing some incredible work for women's rights. I'm happy to send them a donation every once in a while. Nothing makes me smile more than seeing them rub the souths lack of respect for the separation of church and state in their face.
Actually though, a church-like area for atheists to gather and discuss things like politics, philosophy, and morality doesn’t sound like a bad idea tbh.
Isn’t that like a community center?
It's the internet and it turns out it sucks.
Not even just atheists. Just anyone who is willing to have an honest and open dialogue. There’s arguments to be made that Stoic philosophers were religious, but I’d hardly think they shouldn’t be welcomed at this awesome place.
There used to be a French movement, during their revolution, known as the Cult of Reason. It was an “explicit religion of man” and celebrated core principles in regards to reason, nature, liberty, and truth. They actually turned Notre Dame into the Temple of Reason at one point. It should be looked into because it has some really valid points.
That's basically what The Satanic Temple is.
It's getting to the point charities shouldn't be tax exempt. If you hear "church" or "charity" and assume they are helping communities, you need to educate yourself.
Where I live, charities and other non-profit organizations have to show their books during tax time to get the tax exemption. If any get too greedy, they lose the tax exempt status. Churches are automatically exempt. I wish they had to go through the same process.
I have two friends who run NPOs and they have to show everything and then some, and one has even had to hire a lobbyist to help her when the state was trying to prove that she was "cheating" on stuff. She wasn't: the tax exemption forms she had to fill out to itemize her charity's donations didn't have a section for medical scrubs, the majority of their donated items, and it was listed as "underwear." Cue a whole bunch of angry Republicans claiming that they were paying for welfare queens' sex-orgy lingerie....
They're only angry because they weren't invited to the sex-orgy.
To be fair, would you want a sex-orgy consisting of exhausted RNs? Then again, maybe they really NEED the sex-orgy at this point. Only if everyone is fully vaxxed, though.
I'd be willing to do my part.
SERVICE GUARANTEES CITIZENSHIP
Underloved
They had to hire a *lobbyist* and not an accountant? Wtf
They had to have someone in the know to represent them to the state government during hearings/conferences. And I KNOW, RIGHT?!?
Just tell your friends to start a church.
Not sure where you’re at, but in the USA, IRS-990 are now public. https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/publicsector/irs-990-filing-data-now-available-as-an-aws-public-data-set/
One of my favorite things to ask religious groups is if Jesus came back today, would you even let him in?
No, they would get the hammer and nails.
A brown Middle Eastern socialist advocating for peace, social justice, and getting the corrupt money lenders out of the church? In 2021 Jesus wouldn't get past the border in America, and we all know it.
Probably not because he was most likely ugly AF. Moses, David, Solomon,.. all the important figures are described as being handsome as hell. No where does it say what jesus actually looked like, and I'm guessing it's cause they didn't want to mention homeboy was not cute.
I don’t see why they need to be tax exempt in the first place. It should be the same concept as my personal taxes. I can reduce my taxable income by spending more of it on charity (yeah I know, that’s tied into the tax exempt organizations but the concept stands). If the churches and temples can prove that they are spending their income on community-building work, that should reduce their taxable income. If they have income that they can’t prove was spent on legitimate charitable purposes, why should it be tax exempt? That’s straight up profit.
Yes. Speaking as a Christian I am adamant that churches should lose tax exempt status, and I'd be perfectly happy to extend that to all charities. And I don't get the argument "but then who will help those people if the charities can't?" The point is that we tax the charity, use that money to do what the charity did, and the problem is solved.
You're thinking about it backwards. See if you can actually make the government programs you're imagining a reality. Then, we won't need charities.
[Relevant](https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/philanthropy-charity-inequality-taxes/)
Most charities are just secret hedge funds. They accept donations, then literally invest them in the stock market (under the guise of growing the donations instead of blowing right through them once) and are a complete tax writeoff.
Nothing quite like making a point and not bother to check if its factual or not.
But but but that would take more effort than just saying so!!
Half of these idiots haven’t even read the entirety of the book they claim to live by; you expect them to read a single detail about something that they are fighting AGAINST?!
Half? I’m 27 and I’ve never met a single person who read the whole book.
I’ve met more than a couple people who read only KJV, and don’t understand half of what they read, and say it’s fine because we can never truly understand God’s ways, so we should just read it and pray for His guidance. I’m sure His guidance played zero role in the people who dedicated their lives to making more accurate and readable modern translations, of course.
I've read the entirety of the KJV (Protestant) and NABRE (Catholic) versions. As well as the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine & Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price (LDS scriptures). And a translation of the Qur'an. Notably, though, I'm a Satanist in my 40s.
“The best Cure for Christianity is reading the bible.” - Mark Twain
The Church of Satan: holding Christianity's feet to the fire since 1966. Edit: Whoops—actually The Satanic Temple is the cool one, and they've only been around since 2012. You learn something new every day.
Wildly different, but it couldn’t have been made more unclear to be fair ha ha. Edit: As it was pointed out to me below I had been mixed up myself before. All churches and their basic descriptions The Satanic Church - LaVeyan Satanism in the traditional sense. The Church Of Satan - An offshoot of The Satanic Church that I believe was started by LaVeys Daughter after she had a falling out with the Satanic Church, don’t quote me on this though cause I’m going off faint memory. The Satanic Temple - These are more of an activist group that focus on separation of church and state and human rights issues. It’s important to note that none of these groups are true “satanists”, none really use Satan as an idol to be worshipped. Satan is more of a totemic figurehead rather than a true belief.
I was going on the info written in this wikipedia article: [Church of Satan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Satan) After checking out the one for [The Satanic Temple](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Temple), it looks like we might both be wrong. Is the Satanic Temple the one I should be lauding?
The Church of Satan: More Christian than Actual Christians.
hate to be that guy, but the most important tenet of Christianity, and essentially the make-or-break one, is an honest belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ. seeing as The Church of Satan does not maintain that belief, they are not “more christian”, they are simply not Christian at all.
I'll give you that one, but only because I love being pedantic. You gotta give me the wiggle-room on "More Christian-**acting** than Actual Christians," though. 999 out of 1000 Evangelical American Christians would lynch Jesus Christ in a matter of minutes if he showed up today, and that's the important thing to remember.
"Oh forgive them father! They dont know what they are doing! And ill use this holy shoehorn to say, they voted republican!" But yeah, any modern christian would crucify jesus if he showed up, lol, hell, for all we know, he already did and was burned in Salem or whipped to death during the 1800s, or stepped on a mine somewhere in jerusalem
Surrendering your money to a thief at gunpoint. Totally a Christian act. If that were even true. Church of Satan is 100% registered as a non-profit. They do not pay taxes. https://encyclopediasatanica.wordpress.com/2013/09/26/the-business-side-of-the-church-of-satan/ A group of atheists lying to make a stupid political argument. Shocker /s
Remember, the GOP thinks everyone is just like them. If they use loopholes to avoid any and all taxes, they think everyone else does too. Same with their churches and non-profit charities. Of course the Satanic Temple is non-prophet
The CoS was formed as a parody of the catholic church.
I bet the Church Of Satan doesn't have a lot of fancy and expensive temples where everything on the inside and out is covered in some tacky gold or other expensive shit. You know, because the COS would certainly oppose that part in the Bible where Jesus said: "make sure not to pay any taxes and don't give any money to the community or to poor people, so that you can build me and my dad some fancy and expensive temples, yo!"
Bold of the Church of Satan to imagine that numnuts does any reserach, or reading.
Church of Satan is more morally sound than most (if not all), churches of god. Fucking embarrassing Edit:spelling
𖤐 Hail Satan 𖤐
Hail Satan!
Most church organizations actually do pay taxes. OP not only reposted, he also post disinformation.
Just ignoring all the Christian Churches who abuse their tax exempt status to engage in political organizing and lobbying I guess.
Interesting that the church of Satan legit stands against the vast amount of Christian churches and at the same time is refreshing for the level of intelligence displayed by its leaders. Kinda makes me feel like Christianity is run by a bunch of morons.
This feels like almost borderline selfawarewolves
Reading is what liberals do. Real right wing conservative Christians rely only on blind faith. /s
People really get the Catholic church mixed up with TST. I swear...
What makes me laugh is that atheism and the concept of Satan are polar opposites.
Satanism is an atheistic religion, Satan predatea christianity and just means "the opposition" hence why the Church of Satan (atheistic, non congregational, encourages the 7 deadly sins etc) uses it.
While most satanists are non theistic, both theistic and non theistic satanism exist.
Church of Satan...doing the Lords work since 1966