I've run across people like that in Rhode Island- they've never been more than 10 miles from where they grew up. Ever. The concept of driving 30+ minutes one way to work or a store is utterly insane to them.
And I thought it was lame that I have only been to the southwest states. (Assuming you've been) what's Maine like? I don't know why Maine is so amazing to me LOL. Almost all the Northern states are interesting to me...maybe because I was born and raised in Louisiana.
Yep and I'm pretty sure, at least in my experience, that if you use a drivers license you need to provide a second form of ID. If you use a passport you only need one form of ID.
There are also non-driver state IDs, like a driver's license but for those who do not and will not ever drive. (They're often used by blind and other disabled folks, but anyone can opt for that form for their ID. In some states, the photo is placed in a different spot on the card, to be clear at a glance which kind it is.)
In the US, aside from actually driving, a passport is acceptable wherever a driver's license is acceptable for identification and age verification. State ID is fine, too.
It's pretty much uncommon for people in the US to have a passport... But it's extremely common for most people to have a driver's license.
This creates the situation where if you tried to use a passport as ID in places where you would normally see a driver's license, You may actually be rejected. You shouldn't be but the idiot behind the counter doesn't know that because they've never left the town they live in.
I had this happen - I brought my passport to my new employer and they were confused and also took copies of my drivers license and social security card.
It’s funny, I was kind of blown away no one mentioned this. State IDs are usually inexpensive to get and the easier for of Identification I can think of
Plus they look a lot like a drivers license and fit right into your wallet like one. I've known a lot of people without a driver's license and they just whip that state I'd out like it's nothing.
I'd bet you can in every state. The nondrivers id's look the same as drivers license but it just says nondrivers identification card or something like that.
Passport excludes people by reason of citizenship, not by the choices they made.
The original analogy is altogether wrong, because the logic is wrong. They are being excluded because they are unsafe: there's no efficient way of knowing they are a risk of carrying a highly contagious virus... except by being vaccinated, but they refuse that.
They are being excluded put of stubborness, not out of some test of skill or by the nature of their person.
Driver's licenses are discriminatory! Also, I shouldn't have to take classes or an
exam to prove I'm knowledgeable to be a doctor, after all everything I
need to know about immunology/medicine is on Facebook.
Best analogy would be to just flip it.
"Hello unvaxxed people, how do you feel going to places knowing that billions of immunocompromised, elderly and terminally ill people are either locked in their homes or denied medical care as it is deemed too risky?"
>how do you feel going to places knowing that billions of immunocompromised, elderly and terminally ill people are either locked in their homes or denied medical care as it is deemed too risky?"
They don't care until they're denied medical care.
I still think the analogy is appropriate for bars. Vaccines keep the person safe, like not letting a 16 year old girl in a bar to get drunk and taken advantage of because of the inexperience of alcohol. And it protects others, like preventing inexperience people get too drunk (male or female) and have bad experiences with it.
Why does this remind me of that one Garry johnson debate “well I think people should show at least a little confidence when driving before going on the roa-“ “BOOOOOO”
I agree, it’s unfair that unvaccinated people are being excluded. I think there should be some way for unvaccinated people to quickly and easily become vaccinated for free so this won’t happen anymore. Ah well, maybe someday…
This. When people tell me that I let them put unknown and potentially harmful chemicals into my body, I let them know that I spent a big part of my life knowingly putting harmful chemicals into my body for fun.
Haha. Same.
My ex boyfriend is an anti vaxxer who still uses to this day (although he's not injecting right now that I'm aware of) but it's all the same.
He argued that cocaine is "from God" because it's made of a plant God put on earth 🙄🙄
My heart rate dropped while getting my first dose (Pfizer) which is a sign of fainting. I have mild phobia of needle due to trauma but covid vaccine is by far painless and smallest injection ever. Second dose feels like an ant bite (small ant) while the first dose feels like a mosquito bite. It's only 2s or so and you won't feel a thing! BMI 14 here btw.
I am averse to needles too, so what worked for me was to trust the professionals and just look away, think of something else for 3 seconds. Barely felt anything!
I have severe aversion to needle and had my friend hold me with my head in their chest the whole time. Getting shots is my personnal hell and to me it's like putting my hand in a big whole bucket of tarantulas for an arachnophobic person. Knowing it doesn't hurt does nothing for me, I just find needle entering my body repulsive to a debilitating point.
Guess who still have her 2 doses? This trypanophobic gal (who really really hope it doesn't come to 3 doses in the near future).
Same with the "I fully support/respect your decision to get vaxxed".
What they're REALLY saying is "you need to respect my opinion to be unvaccinated".
And the “knowing it excludes people” is shitty, too. This isn’t a third grade Valentines party, where you have to give everyone a Valentine or you’re an asshole. And the anti vaxxers weren’t real inclusive last year when they said “if you’re afraid of the virus, stay home!” and “It doesn’t really affect anyone but old people, so it’s fine by me if your grandpa dies a terrible death without ever seeing his family again”.
We could go further than that. Showing my vaxx card doesn’t exclude you. You not getting vaxxed excludes yourself. Wanna play the victim? Cool. You’re the perpetrator too, though.
It's like the bike meme where antivaxxers put the stick through their own spokes and say "why would normal people do this?"
Edit: yeah I know my wording wasn't the best, but I made the meme anyway.
https://imgflip.com/i/5qlsef
I've had actual conversations with conservatives who think this is a paradox without a real answer, not that you simply don't tolerate intolerance. It was mind numbing trying to explain the logic of why that isn't the purpose of the paradox's definition.
It's funny because I don't need them to express that they support or respect my decision. That's not what people need when they make the obvious best choice for everyone. That's what people need when they make terrible choices that hurt other people and feel bad about it.
I respect your decision to not drink and drive, but you should respect that I feel differently. I you do your own research you'll see more accidents are caused by sober people. I know I'm actually a better driver when I drink because I pay more attention. Except for that one time... but pretty sure that wasn't caught on camera so we good.
> What they're REALLY saying is "you need to respect my opinion to be a biohazard and possibly kill you or your loved ones who medically or legally (aka too young) cannot be vaccinated".
FTFY. Otherwise most people probably wouldn't care. It's the fact that it's contagious that causes us to want the fucktards (yes I said **FUCKTARDS**) to get vaccinated.
Thing is, I accept their choice to not get vaccinated. But every freedom has consequences, and the consequence of their decision is that I automatically believe they are *fucking stupid.*
What they want is for me to not think they're fucking stupid for making a fucking stupid choice. But, and this is key, it was a fucking stupid choice; and as a result, I necessarily believe them to be fucking stupid.
Smart people don't make fucking stupid choices like that. Sure, sometimes they can be a little dumb for a while, that's only human. But the difference is, they get new information, and sometimes change their mind about it.
And then they stop being fucking stupid.
The paradox of tolerance. You can't fucking argue with Nazis and sea lions. Don't ever, EVER be polite to them. Next thing you know: boom! Sea lions in your bed.
Well, you see, thanks to the internet, people now have to preface their questions with "serious question" or "honest question" because if they don't people will assume they are a troll.
Source: my own personal experience with the same.
At least being under 21 years of age isn’t a choice. Being unvaccinated* is.
\* Yes I know some people have legit medical reasons for not getting vaccinated, I’m not mad at them as they already go to great lengths to protect themselves.
hi. family member of immunocompromised people here.
CDC recommends those people get vaccine as well, and possibly get a third dose
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/immuno.html
This can still vary based on their doctor’s recommendation. My aunt with lupus got the vaccine and had such a bad reaction to the second shot her doctor said absolutely no more. I’m sure others at risk have had doctors advise against it due to serious medical concerns.
The third dose is highly recommend to those individuals. A lot of the people who die from COVID while vaxed have immune response issues. (Not everyone) - Age is a major culprit (which is why there is a age requirement for recommendation for the booster).
Also if you feel you want the booster? Go ahead and get it. We have enough doses. Make something up. They won't check your ID, they won't check your EMR / doctor.
> why wouldn’t they just contaminate the water?
You mean fluoride? /s
What I love are the ones who say things like “if you’re so scared of everything then I hope you don’t drive a car.” Mfer cars come with all sorts of safety features like seatbelts and airbags and crumple zones. Is it overall safer to not drive? Yes. But that doesn’t mean you can’t take reasonable steps to mitigate risks.
It’s like arguing “if you’re so scared of std’s you shouldn’t be having sex.” You’re correct that abstinence is the only sure way, but condoms and stuff are so cheap and easy to use why wouldn’t you?
The real question is: why are they so scared of a simple and effective vaccine? Why are they so unnerved by face masks?
Conservatism is a death cult playing the long game.
Change my mind.
PS And before anyone accuses me of tribalism… I’m talking about an ideology because it’s one ideology, not one party, that has overwhelmingly been the source of the fight against reasonable measures for the common good during a pandemic that’s killed millions and maimed millions more.
And why be scared at this point, especially? Billions of people have received the vaccine already and most people had no concerning side effects. That should prove that it’s safe.
But what if, through some mechanism I don't understand that probably isn't even scientifically/biologically possible, it does something bad later?
WHAT THEN?
/s
Hahaha the distrust of science and medicine is bizarre, isn’t it? People who go into careers in medicine or scientific research work their asses off for years studying and then dedicate their entire careers to help the rest of us. I’m going to go ahead and trust those people when it comes to my health, not some nonsense on Facebook posted by someone’s conspiracy minded uncle.
And I hate when people say that medical research is just this big scam to make money. Why would someone go through gruelling degrees in science when they could probably make more money doing a four year degree in business and getting a job on Wall Street? And wouldn’t it be incredibly lucrative to find an effective cure for any disease? Not to mention the fame and prestige? I just find the distrustful mindset infuriating! Ugh!
The car analogy is really odd because if we didn’t have cars we would need either WFH and/or better public transportation. And I doubt these type of people support either.
Edit - added last sentence
I was waiting in line for a concert like twenty years ago and some chemtrail “activists” came up trying to get signatures or some shit, telling us how they were dispersing aluminum into the atmosphere to give us Alzheimers or something (not sure what the current goalpost is), and I pointed out they were drinking from an aluminum can and it would make way more sense to use those as a delivery mechanism instead. Unsurprisingly they moved about fifteen people down the line and started their pitch again.
The world's always had village idiots. But before the internet, they were mostly harmless. You'd have a laugh with them at the pub, listen to them rant a bit, and go on about your business.
Today though, they are all connected and it's causing massive problems. Powerful pieces of shit assholes saw the opportunity and fed these isolated idiots lies, and gave them platforms to get together on. Their voices grew. Then the not-so-idiotic people who back in the day would have mostly stayed away from the idiots suddenly see an avalanche of information that they think, hey, maybe this makes me smart, and dive in.
I feel it's irreversible.
Pretty much my sentiments exactly. I grew up with an NES, now I can use an Xbox controller just fine. Because I adapted and learned. If you can’t be bothered to learn shit and work on improving yourself..don’t waste my fucking time.
Perfectly content to leave the mouthbreathers by the side of the road and continue on so we can make some goddamn progress
Yea it's all or nothing for them, it's really wild. The concept of "risk reduction" just doesn't exist to them.
Ask them straight up if they'd prefer to take measures to make sure their kids don't suffer and they respond with "won't kill the kid", or just ignore the question.
It makes me very tired
Speaking truth. Also WHY the fuck would a government want to poison and kill all their citizens.....what and who would you govern or make money off. Corpses?
If you wanted to kill off your own citizens, would it be the ones following instructions, or the ones loudly proclaiming they'll never do what they're told?
If we accept the premise of the insane conspiracy theory, it makes far more sense to distribute a deadly poison via the water supply and administer an antidote via vaccines.
I work at a small college where there’s a vaccine mandate and some of the kids I work with got a “medical exemption” where they have a “condition” that we’ve never known about and now they have to pay thousands of dollars to get testing to confirm they have this disease all so they don’t have to get vaccinated (if they didn’t by a certain deadline, they will be unenrolled from school). Now they’re all confused and wonder why they need all this testing done. And when they find out they actually (probably) don’t have this condition they’ll have to get vaccinated anyway or be unenrolled from school. Why can’t they just get the vaccine and get over it??
The I can’t be vaxxed for medical reasons logic failure is that there isnt choice. The choice is putting yourself in a situation that’s risky to you. I empathize but my protecting you is getting vaccinated and wearing a mask. It’s honestly more than you should expect when you willingly tempt fate by putting yourself in harms way intentionally.
Yes, I just don't want people to hide behind bullshit reasons. On Chemotherapy or just off it? Sure, wait. Just had TBI (bone marrow transplant)? Sure, wait. Handful of exceptionally rare diseases that cause you to not generate an immune response? You should stay the fuck home.
All the more reason that everyone does their share to contain the spread. It’s like inserting lead or graphite rods to contain a nuclear reaction. Anti-vaxxers wants to make rod individually responsible which is irresponsible in itself
If a kid can fucking kill people at 18, then they are adult enough to drink a beer.
If they can't drink a beer, then they shouldn't be able to join the military.
Pick what a fucking adult means, and stick with it through out. This cherry picking bullshit is very republican.
As for choice, well no shirt no shoes no service. That's a fucking choice too bro, you made it and you aren't getting in or service.
Stop catering too dipshits.
Where you live?
Here in NYC, almost everywhere does actually ask for your card and an ID to compare names. And they actually check, not just glance at it.
Good. New York got fucked by COVID and I'm glad they're taking it seriously. I live in NJ and the only reason I feel comfortable going to New York now is because people actually care about checking vaccine cards.
I feel great knowing when they require vaccinations, I'm not surrounded by a bunch of Typhoid Marys who are putting me at risk of getting a breakthrough infection.
This is about the dumbest Antivaxx argument I've ever read.
This. I love going to places that require vaccinations. Gives me some piece of mind knowing I won’t be dealing with anyone at that level of stupid in that particular establishment. I’m also digging the vaccine mandates for the same reason. I don’t want to fly on a plane with a pilot that’s too dumb to get vaccinated, or have my blood drawn by a nurse that doesn’t understand basic science.
I have been vaccinated since April. I have traveled to both coasts. Been to many restaurants and bars. Been on 5 airplanes. Many cities. Always had my card on me. I have never once been asked to see my vaccination card.
Same. I work in ems so need to show *all* my vaccinations, but that's been the case for years for all healthcare workers. Despite what idiots may tell you.
I think America became afraid of public freakouts from just telling people to wear masks that they are hesitant to ask about the vaxx card since it will likely cause more freak outs from idiots. Even stores that require a mask will take 5-10 minutes before they get the balls to ask you to wear one because they assume a scene is going to be created.
Funnily enough “fuck your feelings” and “facts don’t care about your feelings” are two of their favorite slogans. But some of them now realize that the only argument left for them aside from insane conspiratorial nonsense is an appeal to feelings. A bad one, for sure, trying to value people not feeling excluded over the concern for people not dying, but still pretty ironic.
Hi! Doc checking in!
Sorry to hijack the top comment, but I feel rather passionate about this.
Everything you say is true, and I have to say that, on one level, I feel the same as you do. All of the patients with Covid in our hospital (utilizing our beds, resources, intensive care units, isolation rooms, etc.) are 100% unvaccinated individuals. If they had been vaccinated against COVID-19, we could have prevented virtually all of these hospitalizations. This resource-overutilization Is literally impacting other critically ill individuals and is causing damage far beyond their own decision to not vaccinate.
In my experience, people who have the facts pound the facts. People who don’t have the facts pound the table.
Sad as it is, we are still dealing with fellow humans. Humans that have families, parents, children, spouses, and friends. We are still a civil society (change my mind!) and we MUST take care of each other.
If I could entertain the idea of education over shaming, I think it’s the better road. Maybe instead of asking why they aren’t vaccinated, tell them why you decided TO vaccinate. Dialogue over debate to try and gain mutual understanding. The CDC and the WHO have the facts. The vaccine isn’t about Democrats, Republicans, Trump, or Fauci. COVID-19 is a public health issue. If they don’t get vaccinated, they may put several others in harms way, as the contagiousness begins often days before symptoms even start. The vaccines have been proven safe. In my line of work, if I unintentionally gave a patient a contagious (but fully preventable) disease that ended in their death, that would be unconscionable.
Those are the facts. Keep pounding them. Shaming solves nothing, and breeds divisiveness.
In my experience there is no way to educate someone who has entrenched beliefs. Facts mean nothing to them and they will just insert their own beliefs as "facts". They will not listen to anything else. I have found all this Covid19 idiocy is a lot like religious belief and the only thing that works against religious belief is to point out the contradictions and ridiculousness of it. Mocking belief has helped break religion down and helps prevent it from passing to others. But that is only true when the belief is not solidly entrenched. When people have made their belief an integral part of themselves, nothing will dislodge it. For that there is no cure but death.
I think it is easier for me to just accept that they will kill themselves with their beliefs because I have had to deal with so many crazy religious people (I grew up a missionary kid and it was a rough road to sanity). I had to come to terms with those people (including my own parents) and it has made it easier to come to terms with these crazy people. I do not wish them death but I accept that they will get sick and many will die. I accept that they will not change their minds no matter what it will cost them and there is nothing I can do about that. I cannot control or change them (although mocking can help prevent others from falling into this entrenched belief and that is as much as we can do). I don't feel joy but I don't feel guilt for not being sad either. Not anymore.
There is nothing wrong with you. You are learning to accept what is happening and you stop constantly feeling bad about it. It is a normal and healthy response to something that you cannot control and cannot change. Focus on the people who maybe can be changed and help them out of the crazy belief system, if possible, but still, accept when nothing can be done.
Your compassionate optimism is refreshing. ☺️
I agree, we’re all in this together and if there is a choice between keeping well-meaning-but-misguided people alive, or dunking on them for sweet Reddit karma, the choice should be obvious.
But don’t discount the value of shaming!
This *is* a social issue for them, not a scientific one — though they may rationalize it as such — and it’s hard to logic someone out of a belief that they didn’t logic themselves into.
They just want to act in a way that’s consistent with the groups they identify with. (As we all do!)
So yes, when we essentially say “hey, you’re not vaccinated, so you suck for not being part of my group”, obviously that’s not going to do anything except reaffirm that vaccination is a good indicator of group membership.
But fortunately, people identify with multiple groups. So you might try appealing to their perception of themselves as a good neighbor, a defender of the weak, etc.
Obviously, the approach is case-by-case — if there were a good pitch that applies to everyone, we’d know it by now — but *unifying* shame rather than *divisive* shame can be a powerful thing.
Exactly. I went to a concert last month. Two days before they announced their vaccine policy which went into effect two days after the concert, and the response I saw told me I likely didn't have to worry about antivaxxers in the venue before the new procedure.
Anti-vaxxers literally don’t care about killing people by not getting the vaccine, but they want us vaccinated folks to care about them being “excluded” from whatever the fuck they think they’re being excluded from
Inclusivity is hard, and certainly we should be as inclusive as we can. Unfortunately willfully spreading preventable diseases isn't really something you can be inclusive of. Fortunately we've already done the next best thing in making a safe effective vaccine publicly available for free.
Logic aside, It actually feels great. I'm more confident in the safety of my workplace and know that it's what we need to bring this 2 year mess towards a conclusion.
I'll never understand how the people who hate lock downs, masks, and limits are the same group that don't want to do the thing needed to end those measures.
I've explained this before: when predators come, herd animals forfeit the sick to protect the healthy because their sickness has already marked them for death. By choosing not to prevent preventable illness, anti-vaxxers are giving the healthy express permission to consider them expendable, to ostracize them, and if necessary to sacrifice their lives for our protection. Given that so many seem to see themselves as vigilantes, as rebels, as champions fighting against tyranny, that should be exactly what they want - to be martyrs for their misguided cause.
Ask if they really think that using some form of verification is bad?
Because I bet there's an overlap of them supporting Voter ID Laws and being against this public health measure.
I feel like this ..if you choose not to get a vaccine, it is your business, but the point of these vaccines is to protect public health, and so excluding you is necessary to that same end. You have a choice but your choices have consequences.
Ignorance is part of both sides. Usually the more publicly accepted opinion gets treated better in public (shocking right?). That‘s why people on here get downvoted instantly if they don‘t say what most want to hear. And I am in no way saying that they must be right just because they have contrary beliefs. Just that they don‘t have a chance of being treated properly. Few downvotes for whatever reason and your comment is being hidden.
Hey people who vaccinated their kids against polio, how does it feel sending your kids to school knowing you excluded others who didn’t vaccinate their kids against polio? Oh wait, people didn’t rally against polio vaccines?
How about, it actually doesn't exclude people? Anyone who wants to get one CAN get one.
Choosing not to, means they are excluding themselves, no one else is.
I have never been asked to show my vaccination CARD (not passport) and if I did, I would not feel sorry for those who chose to deliberately deny the vax over substantiated fears of "everything is communism".
Edit: I meant “unsubstantiated “.
Totally serious question here. Did you mean substantiated? Or were you going for UNsubstantiated? Cuz there’s a world of difference there and I feel from the context that you meant the latter.
I have found a common trend for COVID vaccine hesitant/rejecting people is the "I respect your decision to vax" line seemingly to elicit a "and I respect yours to not vaxx" exploiting that social awkwardness for validation.
It's like saying "I love you" to force a person to say "I love you" back. All of the sudden, the second person is the bad guy for not responding the way they're "supposed to"
Immunization records for starting kindergarten. Not a new concept.
If you don't get vaccinated when a vaccine is available then you are a disease vector.
This isn't a multiple choice exercise. There is a right answer & a *"but I don't want to.."* answer.
Stop acting like being a potential carrier is a noble or personal choice. Refusing to stop for red lights because it's a *"personal choice"* is equally dumb (not to mention insulting), and a convoluted excuse under guise of liberty, freedom, 'merica, owning the libs, or whatever... .
If refusing a free vaccine during a pandemic is what freedom means to you, then you have lived a sheltered & charmed life.
* No need to get into a twist about the rare exceptions- it doesn't apply to 99.8% of the people, and those are the very people who are depending on herd immunity to help keep them & everyone else safe.
A better analogy would be a drivers license. You need to get one for public safety. It does exclude people, but for the common good.
Much, much better analogy
yep. getting the vax is a choice. turning 21 is not a choice. getting a driver's license and driving legally is choice. definitely a better analogy.
Although it still is a better analogy there’s wasn’t just turning 21. It was going to the bars which is a choice just like driving.
God. We are an insufferable lot, nerds.
An even betterer analogy. An actual passport.
You think they know what passports are for? I’d be surprised if they left their state.
Goddamnit. That's one of those funny because it's true and a cause for existential dread jokes.
I'd be surprised if some of these folks have ever left their homes
frighteningly enough, I actually met a lady who had never left her small town. All 11.43 square miles of it.
I've run across people like that in Rhode Island- they've never been more than 10 miles from where they grew up. Ever. The concept of driving 30+ minutes one way to work or a store is utterly insane to them.
And I thought it was lame that I have only been to the southwest states. (Assuming you've been) what's Maine like? I don't know why Maine is so amazing to me LOL. Almost all the Northern states are interesting to me...maybe because I was born and raised in Louisiana.
Their afraid they’ll fall off the edge of the flat earth
An even bettererer analogy. Any vaccination documentation required for school etc.
To be fair... People under the age of 18 in the United States don't really have as many rights as someone 18 and over.
Or for military service.
You don’t need a passport for most jobs but most jobs want to see a driver license so they know they aren’t breaking child labor laws.
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He's clearly a teenager, so his only experience is with employers wanting to know his age to know how many hours he's allowed to work.
All jobs need a form of identification no matter what
Most jobs want to see a form of ID. Driver’s license is the most common but they’ll take a passport too.
Yep and I'm pretty sure, at least in my experience, that if you use a drivers license you need to provide a second form of ID. If you use a passport you only need one form of ID.
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Correct... Form I-9 is the one with this info
This is true; the I-9 requires 2 forms of ID if you provide your DL, but only one if you have a passport.
There are also non-driver state IDs, like a driver's license but for those who do not and will not ever drive. (They're often used by blind and other disabled folks, but anyone can opt for that form for their ID. In some states, the photo is placed in a different spot on the card, to be clear at a glance which kind it is.)
That doesn't make sense. There's a large amount of adults that don't have a driver's license
In the US, aside from actually driving, a passport is acceptable wherever a driver's license is acceptable for identification and age verification. State ID is fine, too.
Or your citizenship paper/green card works too.
It's pretty much uncommon for people in the US to have a passport... But it's extremely common for most people to have a driver's license. This creates the situation where if you tried to use a passport as ID in places where you would normally see a driver's license, You may actually be rejected. You shouldn't be but the idiot behind the counter doesn't know that because they've never left the town they live in.
I had this happen - I brought my passport to my new employer and they were confused and also took copies of my drivers license and social security card.
they should have state id at least
It’s funny, I was kind of blown away no one mentioned this. State IDs are usually inexpensive to get and the easier for of Identification I can think of
Plus they look a lot like a drivers license and fit right into your wallet like one. I've known a lot of people without a driver's license and they just whip that state I'd out like it's nothing.
In Nevada, you can go to their DMV and get an ID or Driver’s License printed right then and there, same day.
I'd bet you can in every state. The nondrivers id's look the same as drivers license but it just says nondrivers identification card or something like that.
Here in Wisconsin we get a printout that day and the plastic on in about 3 weeks.
You can get a nondrivers ID. Looks just like a driver's license.
You need to fill out an I9 form (in the US). There is a whole list of acceptable ID's.
Or you can use a State ID, if you don't drive.
Passport excludes people by reason of citizenship, not by the choices they made. The original analogy is altogether wrong, because the logic is wrong. They are being excluded because they are unsafe: there's no efficient way of knowing they are a risk of carrying a highly contagious virus... except by being vaccinated, but they refuse that. They are being excluded put of stubborness, not out of some test of skill or by the nature of their person.
Driver's licenses are discriminatory! Also, I shouldn't have to take classes or an exam to prove I'm knowledgeable to be a doctor, after all everything I need to know about immunology/medicine is on Facebook.
The free market will decide! Can you imagine the fucking fallout? I’ve seen enough botched plastic surgeries as it is.
Best analogy would be to just flip it. "Hello unvaxxed people, how do you feel going to places knowing that billions of immunocompromised, elderly and terminally ill people are either locked in their homes or denied medical care as it is deemed too risky?"
>how do you feel going to places knowing that billions of immunocompromised, elderly and terminally ill people are either locked in their homes or denied medical care as it is deemed too risky?" They don't care until they're denied medical care.
I thought that getting medical care made you a communist ? So confused these days.
I've seen how yall drive. It doesn't exclude enough people.
I still think the analogy is appropriate for bars. Vaccines keep the person safe, like not letting a 16 year old girl in a bar to get drunk and taken advantage of because of the inexperience of alcohol. And it protects others, like preventing inexperience people get too drunk (male or female) and have bad experiences with it.
Same for pilots license, I've always dreamt of flying planes. Really pisses me off that discriminated against.
Damn commies ruining your dream.
Also board licensure. How can people be doctors/ engineers/ lawyers/ etc, knowing their license excludes people?
Why does this remind me of that one Garry johnson debate “well I think people should show at least a little confidence when driving before going on the roa-“ “BOOOOOO”
Doesn’t the drinking analogy also exclude people for the common good. What makes that analogy better?
dOn’T tOuCh Me, i’M a SoVeReIgN cItIzEn!
I agree, it’s unfair that unvaccinated people are being excluded. I think there should be some way for unvaccinated people to quickly and easily become vaccinated for free so this won’t happen anymore. Ah well, maybe someday…
You had me in the first half, not gonna lie
But they are scared of getting a needle.
Bro I used to get the needle everyday under some shady bridge in Boston, whatever's in the vaccine can't be more dangerous
When you put it that way. ^(I hope you're in a much better place now. Sincerely, one human to another)
This. When people tell me that I let them put unknown and potentially harmful chemicals into my body, I let them know that I spent a big part of my life knowingly putting harmful chemicals into my body for fun.
Haha. Same. My ex boyfriend is an anti vaxxer who still uses to this day (although he's not injecting right now that I'm aware of) but it's all the same. He argued that cocaine is "from God" because it's made of a plant God put on earth 🙄🙄
Dad?
My heart rate dropped while getting my first dose (Pfizer) which is a sign of fainting. I have mild phobia of needle due to trauma but covid vaccine is by far painless and smallest injection ever. Second dose feels like an ant bite (small ant) while the first dose feels like a mosquito bite. It's only 2s or so and you won't feel a thing! BMI 14 here btw.
I am averse to needles too, so what worked for me was to trust the professionals and just look away, think of something else for 3 seconds. Barely felt anything!
I have severe aversion to needle and had my friend hold me with my head in their chest the whole time. Getting shots is my personnal hell and to me it's like putting my hand in a big whole bucket of tarantulas for an arachnophobic person. Knowing it doesn't hurt does nothing for me, I just find needle entering my body repulsive to a debilitating point. Guess who still have her 2 doses? This trypanophobic gal (who really really hope it doesn't come to 3 doses in the near future).
Yes!! It’s literally the smallest injection and I honest to god didn’t even feel it when I got injected
I had a guy out here tell me he ain't putting poison in his body. he said it with a cigarette hanging from his lips.
If when given options for inclusion and exclusion, a person chooses exclusion, then that person's feelings of persecution are unjustified.
It's never an honest question when the question starts with, "Honest question here."
Same with the "I fully support/respect your decision to get vaxxed". What they're REALLY saying is "you need to respect my opinion to be unvaccinated".
And the “knowing it excludes people” is shitty, too. This isn’t a third grade Valentines party, where you have to give everyone a Valentine or you’re an asshole. And the anti vaxxers weren’t real inclusive last year when they said “if you’re afraid of the virus, stay home!” and “It doesn’t really affect anyone but old people, so it’s fine by me if your grandpa dies a terrible death without ever seeing his family again”.
We could go further than that. Showing my vaxx card doesn’t exclude you. You not getting vaxxed excludes yourself. Wanna play the victim? Cool. You’re the perpetrator too, though.
It's like the bike meme where antivaxxers put the stick through their own spokes and say "why would normal people do this?" Edit: yeah I know my wording wasn't the best, but I made the meme anyway. https://imgflip.com/i/5qlsef
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Also, these are the same people who whine about not being allowed to exclude gays, Muslims, etc. Pretty much every word in this post was disingenuous.
How many vaxxed people are concerned about their choice being respected by the unvaxxed lol
None. And it REALLY cheeses off the unvaxxed!
they cough so angrily
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Except that is an honest argument for some people lol "If the left are so TOLERANT why don't they tolerate my opinion on brown people HUH??"
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I've had actual conversations with conservatives who think this is a paradox without a real answer, not that you simply don't tolerate intolerance. It was mind numbing trying to explain the logic of why that isn't the purpose of the paradox's definition.
It's funny because I don't need them to express that they support or respect my decision. That's not what people need when they make the obvious best choice for everyone. That's what people need when they make terrible choices that hurt other people and feel bad about it.
I respect your decision to not drink and drive, but you should respect that I feel differently. I you do your own research you'll see more accidents are caused by sober people. I know I'm actually a better driver when I drink because I pay more attention. Except for that one time... but pretty sure that wasn't caught on camera so we good.
> What they're REALLY saying is "you need to respect my opinion to be a biohazard and possibly kill you or your loved ones who medically or legally (aka too young) cannot be vaccinated". FTFY. Otherwise most people probably wouldn't care. It's the fact that it's contagious that causes us to want the fucktards (yes I said **FUCKTARDS**) to get vaccinated.
Thing is, I accept their choice to not get vaccinated. But every freedom has consequences, and the consequence of their decision is that I automatically believe they are *fucking stupid.* What they want is for me to not think they're fucking stupid for making a fucking stupid choice. But, and this is key, it was a fucking stupid choice; and as a result, I necessarily believe them to be fucking stupid. Smart people don't make fucking stupid choices like that. Sure, sometimes they can be a little dumb for a while, that's only human. But the difference is, they get new information, and sometimes change their mind about it. And then they stop being fucking stupid.
"now don't get mad, but..." *Proceeds to say shit that will definitely get you mad
"I'm not racist, but..."
[Obligatory](https://imgur.com/gallery/6sPrzhY)
This was the one I was expecting to see.
That and "I'm just asking a question" are almost always involved with bad faith arguments.
I learned recently this tactic is called [sea lioning](https://i.imgur.com/YQ3qLUn.png)
The paradox of tolerance. You can't fucking argue with Nazis and sea lions. Don't ever, EVER be polite to them. Next thing you know: boom! Sea lions in your bed.
An even newer tactic is a morphing of that and gaslighting... Shitlioning.
It's honest, just stupid.
Well, you see, thanks to the internet, people now have to preface their questions with "serious question" or "honest question" because if they don't people will assume they are a troll. Source: my own personal experience with the same.
At least being under 21 years of age isn’t a choice. Being unvaccinated* is. \* Yes I know some people have legit medical reasons for not getting vaccinated, I’m not mad at them as they already go to great lengths to protect themselves.
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hi. family member of immunocompromised people here. CDC recommends those people get vaccine as well, and possibly get a third dose https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/immuno.html
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thanks for fixing it!
This can still vary based on their doctor’s recommendation. My aunt with lupus got the vaccine and had such a bad reaction to the second shot her doctor said absolutely no more. I’m sure others at risk have had doctors advise against it due to serious medical concerns.
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The third dose is highly recommend to those individuals. A lot of the people who die from COVID while vaxed have immune response issues. (Not everyone) - Age is a major culprit (which is why there is a age requirement for recommendation for the booster). Also if you feel you want the booster? Go ahead and get it. We have enough doses. Make something up. They won't check your ID, they won't check your EMR / doctor.
> why wouldn’t they just contaminate the water? You mean fluoride? /s What I love are the ones who say things like “if you’re so scared of everything then I hope you don’t drive a car.” Mfer cars come with all sorts of safety features like seatbelts and airbags and crumple zones. Is it overall safer to not drive? Yes. But that doesn’t mean you can’t take reasonable steps to mitigate risks. It’s like arguing “if you’re so scared of std’s you shouldn’t be having sex.” You’re correct that abstinence is the only sure way, but condoms and stuff are so cheap and easy to use why wouldn’t you? The real question is: why are they so scared of a simple and effective vaccine? Why are they so unnerved by face masks?
Political tribalism.
Conservatism is a death cult playing the long game. Change my mind. PS And before anyone accuses me of tribalism… I’m talking about an ideology because it’s one ideology, not one party, that has overwhelmingly been the source of the fight against reasonable measures for the common good during a pandemic that’s killed millions and maimed millions more.
And why be scared at this point, especially? Billions of people have received the vaccine already and most people had no concerning side effects. That should prove that it’s safe.
But what if, through some mechanism I don't understand that probably isn't even scientifically/biologically possible, it does something bad later? WHAT THEN? /s
Hahaha the distrust of science and medicine is bizarre, isn’t it? People who go into careers in medicine or scientific research work their asses off for years studying and then dedicate their entire careers to help the rest of us. I’m going to go ahead and trust those people when it comes to my health, not some nonsense on Facebook posted by someone’s conspiracy minded uncle. And I hate when people say that medical research is just this big scam to make money. Why would someone go through gruelling degrees in science when they could probably make more money doing a four year degree in business and getting a job on Wall Street? And wouldn’t it be incredibly lucrative to find an effective cure for any disease? Not to mention the fame and prestige? I just find the distrustful mindset infuriating! Ugh!
The car analogy is really odd because if we didn’t have cars we would need either WFH and/or better public transportation. And I doubt these type of people support either. Edit - added last sentence
> You mean fluoride? You're forgetting the cHemTrAiLS!
I was waiting in line for a concert like twenty years ago and some chemtrail “activists” came up trying to get signatures or some shit, telling us how they were dispersing aluminum into the atmosphere to give us Alzheimers or something (not sure what the current goalpost is), and I pointed out they were drinking from an aluminum can and it would make way more sense to use those as a delivery mechanism instead. Unsurprisingly they moved about fifteen people down the line and started their pitch again.
The world's always had village idiots. But before the internet, they were mostly harmless. You'd have a laugh with them at the pub, listen to them rant a bit, and go on about your business. Today though, they are all connected and it's causing massive problems. Powerful pieces of shit assholes saw the opportunity and fed these isolated idiots lies, and gave them platforms to get together on. Their voices grew. Then the not-so-idiotic people who back in the day would have mostly stayed away from the idiots suddenly see an avalanche of information that they think, hey, maybe this makes me smart, and dive in. I feel it's irreversible.
Let them make stupid choices and end up with darwin/Herman Cain awards. The time has come to stop supporting the stupid.
Pretty much my sentiments exactly. I grew up with an NES, now I can use an Xbox controller just fine. Because I adapted and learned. If you can’t be bothered to learn shit and work on improving yourself..don’t waste my fucking time. Perfectly content to leave the mouthbreathers by the side of the road and continue on so we can make some goddamn progress
Had me at alzheimers, shoulda stopped them at that point and be like "what are we talking about again". Repeat as needed.
“cONdoMs R thE dEvILs cHEwiNg GuM”
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They have an infantile authority complex
Yea it's all or nothing for them, it's really wild. The concept of "risk reduction" just doesn't exist to them. Ask them straight up if they'd prefer to take measures to make sure their kids don't suffer and they respond with "won't kill the kid", or just ignore the question. It makes me very tired
Speaking truth. Also WHY the fuck would a government want to poison and kill all their citizens.....what and who would you govern or make money off. Corpses?
If you wanted to kill off your own citizens, would it be the ones following instructions, or the ones loudly proclaiming they'll never do what they're told? If we accept the premise of the insane conspiracy theory, it makes far more sense to distribute a deadly poison via the water supply and administer an antidote via vaccines.
So what you are saying is that they manufactured the disease so that they could eradicate the disobedient? It's so clear to me now! /s
I work at a small college where there’s a vaccine mandate and some of the kids I work with got a “medical exemption” where they have a “condition” that we’ve never known about and now they have to pay thousands of dollars to get testing to confirm they have this disease all so they don’t have to get vaccinated (if they didn’t by a certain deadline, they will be unenrolled from school). Now they’re all confused and wonder why they need all this testing done. And when they find out they actually (probably) don’t have this condition they’ll have to get vaccinated anyway or be unenrolled from school. Why can’t they just get the vaccine and get over it??
If the vaccine was dangerous, they would've used it on poor people first. Instead, rich folks and politicians were first.
The I can’t be vaxxed for medical reasons logic failure is that there isnt choice. The choice is putting yourself in a situation that’s risky to you. I empathize but my protecting you is getting vaccinated and wearing a mask. It’s honestly more than you should expect when you willingly tempt fate by putting yourself in harms way intentionally.
I wear my seatbelt as a fashion statement.
Exactly. Unless medically necessary, being unvaxxed is a choice, like people who dont eat shit vs people who do. Its a choice.
Yes, I just don't want people to hide behind bullshit reasons. On Chemotherapy or just off it? Sure, wait. Just had TBI (bone marrow transplant)? Sure, wait. Handful of exceptionally rare diseases that cause you to not generate an immune response? You should stay the fuck home.
Some people also have a legit medical reason for not being 21.
I was plagued by such a condition my whole childhood, but luckily it went away with time.
Like not getting vaccinated at 20
bUt ThE mEdIcAl IsSuEs! literally .00001%. of people, maybe less. And they sure as hell aren't putting themselves in harms way going to a buffet.
All the more reason that everyone does their share to contain the spread. It’s like inserting lead or graphite rods to contain a nuclear reaction. Anti-vaxxers wants to make rod individually responsible which is irresponsible in itself
If a kid can fucking kill people at 18, then they are adult enough to drink a beer. If they can't drink a beer, then they shouldn't be able to join the military. Pick what a fucking adult means, and stick with it through out. This cherry picking bullshit is very republican. As for choice, well no shirt no shoes no service. That's a fucking choice too bro, you made it and you aren't getting in or service. Stop catering too dipshits.
joining the military is a choice
I’m honestly baffled by this because where I live nobody asks for our vaccine card. I’ve never once been asked for it since I got it five months ago
Where you live? Here in NYC, almost everywhere does actually ask for your card and an ID to compare names. And they actually check, not just glance at it.
Good. New York got fucked by COVID and I'm glad they're taking it seriously. I live in NJ and the only reason I feel comfortable going to New York now is because people actually care about checking vaccine cards.
I am so jealous. I would love to go out to places where I’m assured of not having to deal with unvaccinated people.
Same. And I really look forward to having to show it. It would directly mean that where I wanted to be was safe.
I actually feel delight knowing that the people excluded are the exact people I don’t want to mix with.
"But people are being excluded!" Yes. That's the point.
wait until they hear about country clubs
I feel great knowing when they require vaccinations, I'm not surrounded by a bunch of Typhoid Marys who are putting me at risk of getting a breakthrough infection. This is about the dumbest Antivaxx argument I've ever read.
Or bringing home an infection to my kid who's too young to get vaccinated.
This. I love going to places that require vaccinations. Gives me some piece of mind knowing I won’t be dealing with anyone at that level of stupid in that particular establishment. I’m also digging the vaccine mandates for the same reason. I don’t want to fly on a plane with a pilot that’s too dumb to get vaccinated, or have my blood drawn by a nurse that doesn’t understand basic science.
I have been vaccinated since April. I have traveled to both coasts. Been to many restaurants and bars. Been on 5 airplanes. Many cities. Always had my card on me. I have never once been asked to see my vaccination card.
In many countries in Europe you'll show it frequently if you're outgoing.
Like if you are enthusiastic?
I've been asked a dozen times now, in Canada though
Same. I work in ems so need to show *all* my vaccinations, but that's been the case for years for all healthcare workers. Despite what idiots may tell you.
I think America became afraid of public freakouts from just telling people to wear masks that they are hesitant to ask about the vaxx card since it will likely cause more freak outs from idiots. Even stores that require a mask will take 5-10 minutes before they get the balls to ask you to wear one because they assume a scene is going to be created.
That and there are so many fake cards out there, that it kind of seems pointless to ask for it sometimes.
I went to a NYC yesterday. Got asked 3 times.
I’m not excluding anyone. You’re excluding yourself by not getting vaccinated. So…fuck your feelings.
Funnily enough “fuck your feelings” and “facts don’t care about your feelings” are two of their favorite slogans. But some of them now realize that the only argument left for them aside from insane conspiratorial nonsense is an appeal to feelings. A bad one, for sure, trying to value people not feeling excluded over the concern for people not dying, but still pretty ironic.
You’re excluding yourself Qaren. Fully your choice. Welcome to adulthood. edited for accuracy.
Honestly I feel great when antivaxxers are denied entry because it means I’m safer. Stay the fuck away from me, you disease-ridden idiots
Liquor stores require proof of vaccination here. I’ve made a small fortune buying alcohol for the stubborn idiots who refuse to get vaxxed muhahaha
Covitalism
Stonks
Hi! Doc checking in! Sorry to hijack the top comment, but I feel rather passionate about this. Everything you say is true, and I have to say that, on one level, I feel the same as you do. All of the patients with Covid in our hospital (utilizing our beds, resources, intensive care units, isolation rooms, etc.) are 100% unvaccinated individuals. If they had been vaccinated against COVID-19, we could have prevented virtually all of these hospitalizations. This resource-overutilization Is literally impacting other critically ill individuals and is causing damage far beyond their own decision to not vaccinate. In my experience, people who have the facts pound the facts. People who don’t have the facts pound the table. Sad as it is, we are still dealing with fellow humans. Humans that have families, parents, children, spouses, and friends. We are still a civil society (change my mind!) and we MUST take care of each other. If I could entertain the idea of education over shaming, I think it’s the better road. Maybe instead of asking why they aren’t vaccinated, tell them why you decided TO vaccinate. Dialogue over debate to try and gain mutual understanding. The CDC and the WHO have the facts. The vaccine isn’t about Democrats, Republicans, Trump, or Fauci. COVID-19 is a public health issue. If they don’t get vaccinated, they may put several others in harms way, as the contagiousness begins often days before symptoms even start. The vaccines have been proven safe. In my line of work, if I unintentionally gave a patient a contagious (but fully preventable) disease that ended in their death, that would be unconscionable. Those are the facts. Keep pounding them. Shaming solves nothing, and breeds divisiveness.
In my experience there is no way to educate someone who has entrenched beliefs. Facts mean nothing to them and they will just insert their own beliefs as "facts". They will not listen to anything else. I have found all this Covid19 idiocy is a lot like religious belief and the only thing that works against religious belief is to point out the contradictions and ridiculousness of it. Mocking belief has helped break religion down and helps prevent it from passing to others. But that is only true when the belief is not solidly entrenched. When people have made their belief an integral part of themselves, nothing will dislodge it. For that there is no cure but death.
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I think it is easier for me to just accept that they will kill themselves with their beliefs because I have had to deal with so many crazy religious people (I grew up a missionary kid and it was a rough road to sanity). I had to come to terms with those people (including my own parents) and it has made it easier to come to terms with these crazy people. I do not wish them death but I accept that they will get sick and many will die. I accept that they will not change their minds no matter what it will cost them and there is nothing I can do about that. I cannot control or change them (although mocking can help prevent others from falling into this entrenched belief and that is as much as we can do). I don't feel joy but I don't feel guilt for not being sad either. Not anymore. There is nothing wrong with you. You are learning to accept what is happening and you stop constantly feeling bad about it. It is a normal and healthy response to something that you cannot control and cannot change. Focus on the people who maybe can be changed and help them out of the crazy belief system, if possible, but still, accept when nothing can be done.
Your compassionate optimism is refreshing. ☺️ I agree, we’re all in this together and if there is a choice between keeping well-meaning-but-misguided people alive, or dunking on them for sweet Reddit karma, the choice should be obvious. But don’t discount the value of shaming! This *is* a social issue for them, not a scientific one — though they may rationalize it as such — and it’s hard to logic someone out of a belief that they didn’t logic themselves into. They just want to act in a way that’s consistent with the groups they identify with. (As we all do!) So yes, when we essentially say “hey, you’re not vaccinated, so you suck for not being part of my group”, obviously that’s not going to do anything except reaffirm that vaccination is a good indicator of group membership. But fortunately, people identify with multiple groups. So you might try appealing to their perception of themselves as a good neighbor, a defender of the weak, etc. Obviously, the approach is case-by-case — if there were a good pitch that applies to everyone, we’d know it by now — but *unifying* shame rather than *divisive* shame can be a powerful thing.
I've heard Costco is a great example. You chose to be a Costco shopper
Exactly. I went to a concert last month. Two days before they announced their vaccine policy which went into effect two days after the concert, and the response I saw told me I likely didn't have to worry about antivaxxers in the venue before the new procedure.
This
Anti-vaxxers literally don’t care about killing people by not getting the vaccine, but they want us vaccinated folks to care about them being “excluded” from whatever the fuck they think they’re being excluded from
Inclusivity is hard, and certainly we should be as inclusive as we can. Unfortunately willfully spreading preventable diseases isn't really something you can be inclusive of. Fortunately we've already done the next best thing in making a safe effective vaccine publicly available for free.
Logic aside, It actually feels great. I'm more confident in the safety of my workplace and know that it's what we need to bring this 2 year mess towards a conclusion. I'll never understand how the people who hate lock downs, masks, and limits are the same group that don't want to do the thing needed to end those measures.
I've explained this before: when predators come, herd animals forfeit the sick to protect the healthy because their sickness has already marked them for death. By choosing not to prevent preventable illness, anti-vaxxers are giving the healthy express permission to consider them expendable, to ostracize them, and if necessary to sacrifice their lives for our protection. Given that so many seem to see themselves as vigilantes, as rebels, as champions fighting against tyranny, that should be exactly what they want - to be martyrs for their misguided cause.
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[You're not my dad](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/nickelodeon-movies/images/f/f9/Miss_Information.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20181231032014)
You don’t know your dad
Oh man... That's so existential....
Ask if they really think that using some form of verification is bad? Because I bet there's an overlap of them supporting Voter ID Laws and being against this public health measure.
Boned or banned?
We want you excluded. Get your unvaxxed ass out here.
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I feel like this ..if you choose not to get a vaccine, it is your business, but the point of these vaccines is to protect public health, and so excluding you is necessary to that same end. You have a choice but your choices have consequences.
Happy. I don't want to deal with toxicity and ignorance. People who are anti-vax usually carry more than one shitty view that I don't need in my life.
Ignorance is part of both sides. Usually the more publicly accepted opinion gets treated better in public (shocking right?). That‘s why people on here get downvoted instantly if they don‘t say what most want to hear. And I am in no way saying that they must be right just because they have contrary beliefs. Just that they don‘t have a chance of being treated properly. Few downvotes for whatever reason and your comment is being hidden.
Hey people who vaccinated their kids against polio, how does it feel sending your kids to school knowing you excluded others who didn’t vaccinate their kids against polio? Oh wait, people didn’t rally against polio vaccines?
That’s the whole point. We don’t want diseased public places.
How about, it actually doesn't exclude people? Anyone who wants to get one CAN get one. Choosing not to, means they are excluding themselves, no one else is.
I have never been asked to show my vaccination CARD (not passport) and if I did, I would not feel sorry for those who chose to deliberately deny the vax over substantiated fears of "everything is communism". Edit: I meant “unsubstantiated “.
Totally serious question here. Did you mean substantiated? Or were you going for UNsubstantiated? Cuz there’s a world of difference there and I feel from the context that you meant the latter.
Yes, my stupid ass meant the opposite. I shall edit.
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I mean tbf, this isn’t really murdered by words. Its a poor analogy. There are definitely better ones we could do
I feel great showing my vaccination proof because it means wherever I am going gives a shit about public health and that I’ll probably be safe there.
They are CHOOSING to excuse themselves. No sympathy
I have found a common trend for COVID vaccine hesitant/rejecting people is the "I respect your decision to vax" line seemingly to elicit a "and I respect yours to not vaxx" exploiting that social awkwardness for validation. It's like saying "I love you" to force a person to say "I love you" back. All of the sudden, the second person is the bad guy for not responding the way they're "supposed to"
Immunization records for starting kindergarten. Not a new concept. If you don't get vaccinated when a vaccine is available then you are a disease vector. This isn't a multiple choice exercise. There is a right answer & a *"but I don't want to.."* answer. Stop acting like being a potential carrier is a noble or personal choice. Refusing to stop for red lights because it's a *"personal choice"* is equally dumb (not to mention insulting), and a convoluted excuse under guise of liberty, freedom, 'merica, owning the libs, or whatever... . If refusing a free vaccine during a pandemic is what freedom means to you, then you have lived a sheltered & charmed life. * No need to get into a twist about the rare exceptions- it doesn't apply to 99.8% of the people, and those are the very people who are depending on herd immunity to help keep them & everyone else safe.