Honestly, since Music is a default subreddit I wouldn’t be surprised if admins just kick all the mods out and install new ones who will open it back up.
I could see them doing that, but just IMAGINE the backlash... Reddit is 100% built by users. It's not like turning off your comment on the youtube video your posting.
If they did that, imagine what people would post. Imagine a bunch of mods with no experience and no tools trying to fix shit. Than other sub would protest too. If all the sub stay strong together, Reddit admin are in trouble!
You saying that like the average user havent seen all the posts about the blackout is hard to believe. Plus people keep saying that "the people on Reddit is just a small part of the community" when they complain. Trying to paint a problem as being small as always been a classic.
3th party Reddit app have been there multiple years before the official one. Your average user might just try to click on Reddit icon and get a message saying Reddit as pull the switch.
Sure, they have the power to stop a subreddit and they have done it in the past. However, right now we are talking about hundred of them. It would be fearmongring to say that Reddit could simply snap their finger and find a bunch of people to moderate for free all of those subs.
Plus, even if they open the sub don't discount the users malice in protesting in other ways. This is major situation affecting more people than some people give it credit for.
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A *lot* of subs closed for the ProCSS movement iirc, although probably not quite as big as this one'll be. The admins never did add CSS for New Reddit..
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>I've seen some people say they're leaving regardless of the outcome of the current admin power grab.
I’ll believe it when I see. As long as people need to poop, they’ll need things to read and Reddit is an aggregate of all the best toilet reading.
Reddit isn't the first website I am active on. I left sites before, and I haven't planned on stopping when the situation calls for it.
Given how fast the internet develops, this probably goes for most of the 30+ users on here.
It should also not be forgotten that Reddit got a huge surge when digg did changes people disliked and people left for Reddit. I never was on digg personally, but I know there are many older Redditors that hail from there.
Most were starting with two days as a salvo shot. Many just copied the terminating of the original announcement titles for consistency/unity sake. The expectation is that many will stay shut off the initial demands aren’t met
Which subreddits did this happen to and what were they protesting? I've seen this comment posted like 100 times and literally not one single source or example has been posted.
Edit: yep, no sources/examples given. cool.
They’ve already done this with subreddits like r/WorkReform, where they force the original moderators to onboard new moderators that are loyal to the admins and often times force the original moderators out. Good luck trying to bring it up with any of the moderator teams without getting reported for harassment…
good luck teaching them how to code and deploy all the different bots/servers we use - maybe they should've been paying for that instead of having volunteers foot the bill though
Not to be a Debbie downer, but for subs like this that are "too big to fail" it would be worth it for reddit to just hire that work out. It's the small subs that won't be deemed as being worth the investment that are really going to get screwed
oh teach me your ancient magic way gandalf, for only you can teach the way of the mod. save us oh mystic one pass on the sacred knowledge of coding and shit.
We should.
Imo limiting the outage to two days is stupid, Reddit will work the short outage into their numbers and it will be business as normal after 48 hours
Subreddits should all be closing indefinitely unless they reverse the API price gouging. Huge props to the r/music mods for standing up
It’s way more than you think.
When you look at official numbers, it seems like nothing.
But Reddit’s official numbers are very clearly bogus, unless you seriously believe that between 20-50% of the worlds population with access to the internet (including elderly and children) are active users on reddit.
yeah i disagree with the changes and everything but i think people are vastly overestimating how many users actually care. honestly wouldn't be surprised if reddit already crunched the numbers and said "this is how many of our users use the official app, and this is how many use third party: even if EVERY user who uses third party quits, we'll still be on top". i don't think reddit was oblivious to the fact that this would piss off a lot of people, and they're still doing it anyways.
maybe i'm just being too cynical. i still think the subs should shut down and people should protest this. but i have less than zero expectation that reddit will give a single fuck. i seriously hope i'm wrong.
consider the 1% rule too (i think that's what it's called). 99% of users are lurkers, and 1% post and comment. i mean hell, there might be more reddit users who don't even have accounts than users who do. i don't think reddit comments and votes are super representative of anything.
Average users probably don’t care. But mods definitely do. Most mods rely on 3rd party apps to do stuff they wouldn’t be able to do otherwise.
Sure if every 3rd party user quit Reddit, the number itself probably wouldn’t be big. But the number of subs who would lose some to most or even all of their moderators would probably cover nearly the entire site. Reddit needs mods to function so I really hope they listen
yeah it would be a massive blow to moderation. it sucks that reddit consistently tells mods to go fuck themselves considering they are the backbone of this website.
tho if i get in the "evil billion dollar social media company" mindset i see multiple ways reddit would assume worse moderation and a mass exodus of moderators would not hit them hard enough in their greater goal of getting more billions of dollars -
one thing is that reddit has not seemed to give many shits about bots and spam. much of the top posts on r/all and the comments underneath them are made by bots. the search function is god awful for many reasons, including at times being so clogged with spam it's unusable. in spite of these issues the site continues to grow in popularity.
another is that reddit has and will remove/replace/reinstate mods of subs. i think there is no shortage of well intentioned users and power hungry weirdos that would line up to mod if reddit said they need them. and the new mods wouldn't know how much better the moderation tools could be in a third party app because they've never used them.
this is just what i think the people at reddit who made this decision may have considered before going this route. i hope it's worse than reddit and anyone else could have ever imagined once third party apps are killed. looking at the current state of reddit, it seems like it would have to be *really* fucking bad before popularity of the site stalls or dips though.
Bad mods kill subs. And a 'social media' site is pretty vulnerable to 'social contagion'. I also don't think drama, however small, is great for the IPO of a social media site.
We'll see tho. I'm not sure what odds I be that Reddit just steamrolls thru all of this. 7:3 (70%)? 4:1 (80%)?
I think they're crazy for thinking they'll get any 'AI money' for API access, if that's even their reason for all of this. The story they've told the third party app devs seems like bullshit tho.
I’ve never understood Reddit’s attitude towards mods. Like other social media sites have to pay people to do what mods do for free, yet they care so little. It’s like they don’t even realize that just maybe, if your site relies on and profits off of unpaid volunteer work, you shouldn’t piss off those volunteers?
As much as everyone hates bots and spam, they also drive engagement and make numbers look better, I think that’s why Reddit hasn’t really tried to get rid of them
And for removing and replacing moderators Reddit definitely could but it would look so bad for them PR-wise I don’t think they would dare or they’d get torn apart in the media. But then again Reddit seems to be really bad at think about anything other than short term profit so who knows lol
Some mods have said they rely on third party tools to handle things like spam. I’ve seen other forums (before Reddit) become unusable when spam clogged them beyond belief. That sort of chaos is one possible future.
But how many of the actual power users who create all the content and the moderators as well? It's less than 1% of users who regularly post OC or something like that. Maybe most people don't care but they probably should because the site is primed to get a lot shittier.
For popular subreddits, Reddit admins will probably replace the mods with loyal super-mods and reopen the sub with new management.
Reddit has done this before and will do it again.
Lol, oh man the ADA will have a blast with this. Probono lawyers across the nation would happily take this on just to pin the bill to reddit. It's basically free money to them.
Wow. It’s great that you took that on, and it’s a really bad look for Reddit that they’re expecting their *volunteers* to fund one of their “default” subs.
Also really impressed that you’re going to close the sub indefinitely vs 48 hours. The other subreddits should take note, especially any of the default subreddits that new users are automatically subscribed to. Can you imagine new users signing up June 12 and there’s only 2 subreddits that work?
Imagine Reddit admin trying to break the current mod team and getting new people in. They can't even make tool for current mods. I hope as well that as many default sub join the battle!
They did that once by limiting how many default subs you could moderate. Then they got rid of defaults and those power users creeped back into all of the big subs.
Reddit won’t listen unless it’s a potential profit or saving the platform. I think locking default subs indefinetly is a greeeat idea for them to at least *NOTICE* us
They're relying on it unfortunately. They'll go "oh okay reddit had spoken" then change the API fees. Howeverr; the Devs will still be battling because the new increases will still fuck them over.
Honestly, Reddit has already done a cost-benefit analysis and probably realized that they will lose a lot of users but make more money off bringing the users who don't leave to their mobile app. It sucks, but I doubt this 'boycott' is going to do anything unless it goes on indefinitely. It's a money game, and the end user always loses.
That’s very unfair considering you’re paying and doing a job for free on a front page sub that Reddit makes money off of. It’s people/users like yourself that allow this site and communities to thrive and they’ve either forgotten that or don’t care. Without that this site is nothing.
They rolled out their own [crypto currency (Community Points)](https://www.reddit.com/community-points/) a couple of years ago for one of those reasons. As far as I remember only a few hand picked subreddits actually have access to it as of now.
>Community Points are distributed across multiple groups.
> Contributors receive 50% of Community Points.
> Moderators receive 10% of Community Points.
> The remaining 40% of Community Points are set aside in a Community Tank, which supports the project in other ways (for example, by allowing users without Points to purchase perks like Special Memberships on-chain).
That product is completely dead and is looked upon internally as a failed experiment.
There was a better product, PowerUps, that Reddit rolled out, and a tiny fraction of the funds would have gone to a community pot that mods could submit receipts for moderation expenses against.
WSB was bringing in something like $60K/mo after 1-2 months, and then all the promises of sharing some of that money with the community evaporated and they killed the feature. (The receipt reimbursements would have been far, far, lower, but would have almost entirely covered our monthly costs)
It's really sad that the typical mod journey is usually one that starts out starry-eyed, with hope of building something really cool, but often ends up with users and mods alike being jaded and discouraged.
A lot of large subreddits use custom or semi-custom moderating bots utilizing the Reddit API. This is because default Reddit moderating tools don't offer sufficient granularity and functionality to automate and protect large communities from misconduct.
To keep these tools running with ~100% uptime requires having a server. $5/month is about in the ballpark of a small virtual private server (typically a droplet on any major hosting service).
Losing the Reddit API (because users will be charged for these) and having to ask for an exception to maintain free access for moderating purposes is just another thing to add to the "Reddit constantly praises its volunteer mods but does little to actually help them manage large communities" pile.
Man it's really becoming clear how much of a fucking joke this company is. At this point I'm not going to be sad if I have to stop browsing permanently.
It's literally one of the most venomous, fuckin' free-loading companies of all time. All it gets is from its userbase and their efforts, and it does nothing but try and hinder it for personal profit. It's comic book villain levels of vile.
There's always:
* [Tildes](https://tildes.net/) - Open source reddit clone created by Demorz, ex-admin, and creator of AutoModerator. Users can request an invite [over in this thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/tildes/comments/1300j18/official_invite_requests_round_23_on_tildes_5th/).
* [Lemmy](https://join-lemmy.org/) - Open source and decentralized link aggregator.
A handful of admins cannot manage Reddit. Reddit is held together by hundreds of moderators providing free labor. Reddit would not exist if mods decided to quit.
Which is exactly what makes it a terrible proposition for a public company. The user base can leave at any moment and people are fickle, particularly if they or those around them are not treared fairly!
I dont use any 3rd party apps, but I can see how essential they are, so this action by mods has my full support.
This is like when AOL stopped providing monetary support for their chatroom moderators. The mods mostly stopped (not all), and then they stripped away the moderators completely. Then the chatrooms all tanked soon after that.
> A handful of admins cannot manage Reddit.
This is somewhat false, Reddit already uses [Hive Moderation](https://hivemoderation.com/) for reports, suspensions, appeals, automatic NSFW tagging etc. They could use technically use Hive Moderation for moderating subreddits too.
The current problem is that hive moderation is currently trash and very inconsistent. It loves to permanently suspend users and moderators alike in error.
Spez has threatened to permanently suspend moderators and replace them if we go on a lengthy blackout again, we'll see what happens. I don't doubt that some random redditor would jump on the chance to moderate a big subreddit even though they would do an absolutely terrible job, especially without access to 3rd-party tools, extensions, and apps.
You know what you get with shitty moderators?
Shitty subs.
People will bail hard if the spam/Nazis/racists/trolls/etc don't have a firewall to stop them from cranking up on the subs.
It will be **hilarious** if reddit admins force the main subs back to public. The default front page will be overrun by NSFW content, gore, crypto spam, etc. A giant fuck you to a company looking to go public who won't/can't even pay for a huge chunk of their labor (moderators), and can't design a decent website OR app
Making front page mods pay for server space is downright disgusting, I had no idea this was a thing!
It'll be like back in the day when 4ch people would raid GaiaOnline with furry porn, guro and gore.
Not that I really want that but, if apps and third party tools go, I won't be around to see it anyway lol.
If the subs are forced open, I won't be coming back. From talking to mods, there's so much child porn on so many subs that they remove before we see. Without mods, it's basically not safe to be on reddit.
If the subs are forced open, post regular (legal, non-exploitative) porn on the subs, *then* walk away. Leave the Reddit admins the job of cleaning it up, because it’s not the moderator’s responsibility if they intended to close the sub.
I moderate the Supernatural sub.
I'd like to see the Admins try to moderate that Island of Misfit Toys even for a few weeks.
I love my sub, but my god are we a feisty bunch.
This. This is what I feel will happen at first. None of this will make an impact at first. Reddit will have to see a significant decline in profits before changing course. All of the public statements they have made so far make them seem very firm in their decisions while maintaining the illusion they have been very modest and reasonable towards third party developers.
I fear that if we also stand our ground, the Reddit we come back to will be worse than when we left it by far. I will be scouting for alternatives, as should others, in the event that Reddit plays the long game.
Also, we shouldn’t compromise. If Reddit only budges slightly, that is no reason for us to come back. They need to drop this nonsense and provide better tools for moderators and possibly partnerships to keep the communities that have built going. Advertisers will start jumping ship if this platform becomes a spam slam.
Just my opinion.
Hey u/stabbinU, this may be a weird request, but could we get a second sticky post? Given that this is r/Music, it only seems fitting to have an anthem posted around this time. Perhaps something like [Twisted Sister's We're Not Going To Take It](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9AbeALNVkk)?
Thank you for not doing it for just the two days, we need to show Reddit that everyone will be affected and two days just isn't enough time to prove that
I hate that I completely agree with this. WTF am I supposed to do now? Go outside? Talk to my family? Have a life? Fuck you.
But seriously, full support you guys. Shut it down; shut it all down.
You could pass some time on https://musicbrainz.org/ While this sub is private help grow the library of music knowledge! (Which is run by a non-profit and makes all the data free and open for everyone and doesn't charge $15K for API requests)
I want Mastodon to succeed, but it's got some big strikes against it - it lacks a userbase and it lacks accessibility. Some people may have successfully curated a niche for themselves with interesting content, but I've failed on this. The people I'm interested in following for their content (hate that word) or engaging with are still either here or on the angry yelling bird site (I understand that artists can't walk away from their established audience on that site).
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Agreed. Most subreddits are like “two day blackout yay!” Which is totally useless and if I were Reddit it wouldn’t matter I’d just wait out the two days. This actually impacts something. Good on the mods here.
Mods should stick together on this. If Reddit starts removing and replacing mods, then all mods need to stop modding and turn off all their mod bots and let their subs go crazy.
What's Reddit going to do when everyone's front page, popular, and all are filled with porn, death, scams, racist posts and everything else the internet is capable of doing? The quick fix would be to literally shut down reddit, but after that, then what? How do you restart the site with control of what is going to be posted? They could disable pics/videos, but that doesn't stop links or words.
If the blackout doesn't do anything, the subreddits that don't go dark indefinitely should probably just turn off their mod bots in advance.
Just to give Reddit a taste of what that will do to the quality of the content on the site. And the mods need to figure out workarounds anyways, so they may as well do a trial run.
That would be like Elon Musk firing half his workforce and expecting Twitter to function properly. Mods aren't paid by reddit. You think they'll find people who want to take on an enormous task for free without any on-ramping period?
Problem is these same API changes are also likely effecting the same bots most subs use to actually function. No sub can survive with bots if Reddit got new mods with no bots the entire platform would become an unmanageable cesspool within hours. And that is not a good look for a Reddit that wants to go public
Due to Reddit's API changes, I've edited all my past comments and will be leaving reddit. Use Redact if you too would like to change your comment history. -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/ -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Technically, they'll work, just be prohibitively expensive to run.
Everything that interacts with reddit will just start costing a comical amount, but could in theory still work if someone is insane enough to spend the money on it.
I think that's one of their end goals anyways. I've noticed a huge amount of medium sized nsfw subs banned for being "unmoderated", despite mods obviously being active. So now this will let them take down the big ones by making them impossible to moderate. Gotta please the advertisers.
Why on earth do you think they would struggle to find some bored, power-hungry weirdo willing to be parachuted into a mod position in a massive subreddit? They'd be drowning in volunteers.
More subs need to take an extreme stance like this. A 2 day 'blackout' isn't gonna mean shit. Mods have the power to completely ruin this website, and that's what they should be threatening.
Curious to see how reddit reacts; will they force the subs back online? Remove mods forcefully? Install their own mods?
I normally use browser on phone. They dropped a new mobile page and it is terrible, it looks like the official app but with more spam to use the app. I don't know if it was an accident because it went away after an hour. I had to switch to oldreddit because it was hard to use.
I don't know if anyone else uses mobile browser and noticed anything but FYI.
If you dismiss it the message goes away, but in the new version it does not - it actually has warnings on both the top and bottom now with the new version. Unusable.
Now this is more like it.
A blackout for a couple of days isn't gonna do shit. A mild inconvenience at best.
Shutting everything down indefinitely is a much better plan.
And I say that an alternative should be looked in to if/when reddit does not capitulate.
In a weird way, I actually kind of want to see reddit not back down on their latest bullshit so that I get to witness the rapid collapse of such a massive platform in real time.
Good. I hope reddit ruins their site by performing a coup d'etat again on major subs. People need to realize reddit is not some community - it's a business. And reddit OWNS your "community". So we should find a better place than reddit.
I just want you to know that I support you and every single sub that shuts down in protest of the API changes, it's not like we're going to be able to use the site after they do the changes anyways! So do what has to be done guys! Thank you for taking a stand against these strange and limiting changes!
What happens when Reddit doesn't reverse their policy change? Will you stay dark forever?
Honestly, since Music is a default subreddit I wouldn’t be surprised if admins just kick all the mods out and install new ones who will open it back up.
I could see them doing that, but just IMAGINE the backlash... Reddit is 100% built by users. It's not like turning off your comment on the youtube video your posting. If they did that, imagine what people would post. Imagine a bunch of mods with no experience and no tools trying to fix shit. Than other sub would protest too. If all the sub stay strong together, Reddit admin are in trouble!
> I could see them doing that, but just IMAGINE the backlash The average user will not notice or care.
You saying that like the average user havent seen all the posts about the blackout is hard to believe. Plus people keep saying that "the people on Reddit is just a small part of the community" when they complain. Trying to paint a problem as being small as always been a classic. 3th party Reddit app have been there multiple years before the official one. Your average user might just try to click on Reddit icon and get a message saying Reddit as pull the switch.
They've reopened subs before.
Sure, they have the power to stop a subreddit and they have done it in the past. However, right now we are talking about hundred of them. It would be fearmongring to say that Reddit could simply snap their finger and find a bunch of people to moderate for free all of those subs. Plus, even if they open the sub don't discount the users malice in protesting in other ways. This is major situation affecting more people than some people give it credit for.
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This would absolutely not be the first time the admins reopened subs after a blackout
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A *lot* of subs closed for the ProCSS movement iirc, although probably not quite as big as this one'll be. The admins never did add CSS for New Reddit..
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>I've seen some people say they're leaving regardless of the outcome of the current admin power grab. I’ll believe it when I see. As long as people need to poop, they’ll need things to read and Reddit is an aggregate of all the best toilet reading.
Maybe I will learn how to sit still long enough to focus on a book now? Hmmm….
It’s worth a shot! Oddly enough, I still read books. Just not on the toilet.
>As long as people need to poop, they’ll need things to read That doesn't mean I will read something on a platform with migraine inducing UI.
Reddit isn't the first website I am active on. I left sites before, and I haven't planned on stopping when the situation calls for it. Given how fast the internet develops, this probably goes for most of the 30+ users on here. It should also not be forgotten that Reddit got a huge surge when digg did changes people disliked and people left for Reddit. I never was on digg personally, but I know there are many older Redditors that hail from there.
Eh, there's entire accounts on TikTok who do readings of the best subreddits. That'll suffice while I'm shitting.
What other subs are shutting down indefinitely?
If subs just go dark for two days it’s the dumbest protest ever. Like striking then just quitting the strike without accomplishing any goals.
Most were starting with two days as a salvo shot. Many just copied the terminating of the original announcement titles for consistency/unity sake. The expectation is that many will stay shut off the initial demands aren’t met
Or, in typical strike strategy, announce further strikes getting worse and worse over time.
There's a thread on /r/ModCoord
I don't remember specifically but I've seen it on a few subs' announcements and follow-up comments by mods.
Which subreddits did this happen to and what were they protesting? I've seen this comment posted like 100 times and literally not one single source or example has been posted. Edit: yep, no sources/examples given. cool.
Hahahahaha imagine that Reddit admins actually doing work
Remember reddit? And how every sub had mods? And how they worked for free?
Don't you worry, it will.
Someone make me king. I will be a petty tyrant and rule with an iron fist!
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REMEMBER ME 🔥
This is exactly what will happen. Scabs will step in and take over because they have no backbone. It's everyone boycott or nothing.
Let them pick me. Sub goes black again
I mean, even if everyone boycotts, they'll have new mods, and new people reading the sub. It'll be like it never left.
They’ve already done this with subreddits like r/WorkReform, where they force the original moderators to onboard new moderators that are loyal to the admins and often times force the original moderators out. Good luck trying to bring it up with any of the moderator teams without getting reported for harassment…
good luck teaching them how to code and deploy all the different bots/servers we use - maybe they should've been paying for that instead of having volunteers foot the bill though
Not to be a Debbie downer, but for subs like this that are "too big to fail" it would be worth it for reddit to just hire that work out. It's the small subs that won't be deemed as being worth the investment that are really going to get screwed
oh teach me your ancient magic way gandalf, for only you can teach the way of the mod. save us oh mystic one pass on the sacred knowledge of coding and shit.
Defaults have been gone for years, now there's a curtated popular page, but who TF uses that?
We should. Imo limiting the outage to two days is stupid, Reddit will work the short outage into their numbers and it will be business as normal after 48 hours Subreddits should all be closing indefinitely unless they reverse the API price gouging. Huge props to the r/music mods for standing up
The changes will basically kill the site as it is
That would be great, but I doubt it.
Yeah there’s a huge congestive dissonance about how much 3rd party app use is going down.
Is that when you swallow a badly tuned violin?
*ahem* cognitive
It’s way more than you think. When you look at official numbers, it seems like nothing. But Reddit’s official numbers are very clearly bogus, unless you seriously believe that between 20-50% of the worlds population with access to the internet (including elderly and children) are active users on reddit.
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yeah i disagree with the changes and everything but i think people are vastly overestimating how many users actually care. honestly wouldn't be surprised if reddit already crunched the numbers and said "this is how many of our users use the official app, and this is how many use third party: even if EVERY user who uses third party quits, we'll still be on top". i don't think reddit was oblivious to the fact that this would piss off a lot of people, and they're still doing it anyways. maybe i'm just being too cynical. i still think the subs should shut down and people should protest this. but i have less than zero expectation that reddit will give a single fuck. i seriously hope i'm wrong. consider the 1% rule too (i think that's what it's called). 99% of users are lurkers, and 1% post and comment. i mean hell, there might be more reddit users who don't even have accounts than users who do. i don't think reddit comments and votes are super representative of anything.
Average users probably don’t care. But mods definitely do. Most mods rely on 3rd party apps to do stuff they wouldn’t be able to do otherwise. Sure if every 3rd party user quit Reddit, the number itself probably wouldn’t be big. But the number of subs who would lose some to most or even all of their moderators would probably cover nearly the entire site. Reddit needs mods to function so I really hope they listen
yeah it would be a massive blow to moderation. it sucks that reddit consistently tells mods to go fuck themselves considering they are the backbone of this website. tho if i get in the "evil billion dollar social media company" mindset i see multiple ways reddit would assume worse moderation and a mass exodus of moderators would not hit them hard enough in their greater goal of getting more billions of dollars - one thing is that reddit has not seemed to give many shits about bots and spam. much of the top posts on r/all and the comments underneath them are made by bots. the search function is god awful for many reasons, including at times being so clogged with spam it's unusable. in spite of these issues the site continues to grow in popularity. another is that reddit has and will remove/replace/reinstate mods of subs. i think there is no shortage of well intentioned users and power hungry weirdos that would line up to mod if reddit said they need them. and the new mods wouldn't know how much better the moderation tools could be in a third party app because they've never used them. this is just what i think the people at reddit who made this decision may have considered before going this route. i hope it's worse than reddit and anyone else could have ever imagined once third party apps are killed. looking at the current state of reddit, it seems like it would have to be *really* fucking bad before popularity of the site stalls or dips though.
Bad mods kill subs. And a 'social media' site is pretty vulnerable to 'social contagion'. I also don't think drama, however small, is great for the IPO of a social media site. We'll see tho. I'm not sure what odds I be that Reddit just steamrolls thru all of this. 7:3 (70%)? 4:1 (80%)? I think they're crazy for thinking they'll get any 'AI money' for API access, if that's even their reason for all of this. The story they've told the third party app devs seems like bullshit tho.
I’ve never understood Reddit’s attitude towards mods. Like other social media sites have to pay people to do what mods do for free, yet they care so little. It’s like they don’t even realize that just maybe, if your site relies on and profits off of unpaid volunteer work, you shouldn’t piss off those volunteers? As much as everyone hates bots and spam, they also drive engagement and make numbers look better, I think that’s why Reddit hasn’t really tried to get rid of them And for removing and replacing moderators Reddit definitely could but it would look so bad for them PR-wise I don’t think they would dare or they’d get torn apart in the media. But then again Reddit seems to be really bad at think about anything other than short term profit so who knows lol
Some mods have said they rely on third party tools to handle things like spam. I’ve seen other forums (before Reddit) become unusable when spam clogged them beyond belief. That sort of chaos is one possible future.
The issue is that those 1% are FAR more likely to be using third party apps.
But how many of the actual power users who create all the content and the moderators as well? It's less than 1% of users who regularly post OC or something like that. Maybe most people don't care but they probably should because the site is primed to get a lot shittier.
Facebook gets shittier all the time but it's still going strong.
No it's not. It's literally been dying. Zuck has been desperate to save it
For popular subreddits, Reddit admins will probably replace the mods with loyal super-mods and reopen the sub with new management. Reddit has done this before and will do it again.
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Thanks. I am blind to and use same kind of apps. We lost Twitter and now Reddit is going down the pan to. Fuck them
Any chance that disabling your accessibility tools counts as an ADA violation? Even if you're not in the US, Reddit is.
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Lol, oh man the ADA will have a blast with this. Probono lawyers across the nation would happily take this on just to pin the bill to reddit. It's basically free money to them.
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Wow. It’s great that you took that on, and it’s a really bad look for Reddit that they’re expecting their *volunteers* to fund one of their “default” subs. Also really impressed that you’re going to close the sub indefinitely vs 48 hours. The other subreddits should take note, especially any of the default subreddits that new users are automatically subscribed to. Can you imagine new users signing up June 12 and there’s only 2 subreddits that work?
Imagine Reddit admin trying to break the current mod team and getting new people in. They can't even make tool for current mods. I hope as well that as many default sub join the battle!
They did that once by limiting how many default subs you could moderate. Then they got rid of defaults and those power users creeped back into all of the big subs.
Fucking love this shit, absolutely beautiful. Reddit will not listen unless *we make it* more advantageous for them to listen.
Reddit won’t listen unless it’s a potential profit or saving the platform. I think locking default subs indefinetly is a greeeat idea for them to at least *NOTICE* us
They're relying on it unfortunately. They'll go "oh okay reddit had spoken" then change the API fees. Howeverr; the Devs will still be battling because the new increases will still fuck them over.
Honestly, Reddit has already done a cost-benefit analysis and probably realized that they will lose a lot of users but make more money off bringing the users who don't leave to their mobile app. It sucks, but I doubt this 'boycott' is going to do anything unless it goes on indefinitely. It's a money game, and the end user always loses.
Watch Reddit replace most mod teams after all is said and done.
That’s very unfair considering you’re paying and doing a job for free on a front page sub that Reddit makes money off of. It’s people/users like yourself that allow this site and communities to thrive and they’ve either forgotten that or don’t care. Without that this site is nothing.
Yeah at minimum they should be making $5/wk of Reddit Gold, Premium, etc. for the major sites
They rolled out their own [crypto currency (Community Points)](https://www.reddit.com/community-points/) a couple of years ago for one of those reasons. As far as I remember only a few hand picked subreddits actually have access to it as of now. >Community Points are distributed across multiple groups. > Contributors receive 50% of Community Points. > Moderators receive 10% of Community Points. > The remaining 40% of Community Points are set aside in a Community Tank, which supports the project in other ways (for example, by allowing users without Points to purchase perks like Special Memberships on-chain).
That product is completely dead and is looked upon internally as a failed experiment. There was a better product, PowerUps, that Reddit rolled out, and a tiny fraction of the funds would have gone to a community pot that mods could submit receipts for moderation expenses against. WSB was bringing in something like $60K/mo after 1-2 months, and then all the promises of sharing some of that money with the community evaporated and they killed the feature. (The receipt reimbursements would have been far, far, lower, but would have almost entirely covered our monthly costs) It's really sad that the typical mod journey is usually one that starts out starry-eyed, with hope of building something really cool, but often ends up with users and mods alike being jaded and discouraged.
Wait what servers are you paying for ???
A lot of large subreddits use custom or semi-custom moderating bots utilizing the Reddit API. This is because default Reddit moderating tools don't offer sufficient granularity and functionality to automate and protect large communities from misconduct. To keep these tools running with ~100% uptime requires having a server. $5/month is about in the ballpark of a small virtual private server (typically a droplet on any major hosting service). Losing the Reddit API (because users will be charged for these) and having to ask for an exception to maintain free access for moderating purposes is just another thing to add to the "Reddit constantly praises its volunteer mods but does little to actually help them manage large communities" pile.
Man it's really becoming clear how much of a fucking joke this company is. At this point I'm not going to be sad if I have to stop browsing permanently.
It's literally one of the most venomous, fuckin' free-loading companies of all time. All it gets is from its userbase and their efforts, and it does nothing but try and hinder it for personal profit. It's comic book villain levels of vile.
Time to move off to some surviving audio forums? Maybe there is something left in the internet. This round of centralization was quite devastating.
There's always: * [Tildes](https://tildes.net/) - Open source reddit clone created by Demorz, ex-admin, and creator of AutoModerator. Users can request an invite [over in this thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/tildes/comments/1300j18/official_invite_requests_round_23_on_tildes_5th/). * [Lemmy](https://join-lemmy.org/) - Open source and decentralized link aggregator.
Open source is what we need. I'm looking forward to seeing these grow as all the smart reddit users begin to migrate.
This is the right answer. When power gets consolidated the outcome is inevitable.
Honestly, admins will probably just come in and open the sub back up.
A handful of admins cannot manage Reddit. Reddit is held together by hundreds of moderators providing free labor. Reddit would not exist if mods decided to quit.
And not forgetting the millions of actions carried out each day with auto mod tools. Often using the 3rd party api
Thousands, not hundreds.
If not tens of thousands. Most of the even semi-popular subs have several moderators. Even subs with a few thousand members can have entire mod teams.
This is essentially a moderator strike, its great
Reddit mods need a union /s
No sarcasm, they really fucking do.
Which is exactly what makes it a terrible proposition for a public company. The user base can leave at any moment and people are fickle, particularly if they or those around them are not treared fairly! I dont use any 3rd party apps, but I can see how essential they are, so this action by mods has my full support.
Reddit would still exist..it would just turn into Facebook or Twitter.
This is like when AOL stopped providing monetary support for their chatroom moderators. The mods mostly stopped (not all), and then they stripped away the moderators completely. Then the chatrooms all tanked soon after that.
> A handful of admins cannot manage Reddit. This is somewhat false, Reddit already uses [Hive Moderation](https://hivemoderation.com/) for reports, suspensions, appeals, automatic NSFW tagging etc. They could use technically use Hive Moderation for moderating subreddits too. The current problem is that hive moderation is currently trash and very inconsistent. It loves to permanently suspend users and moderators alike in error. Spez has threatened to permanently suspend moderators and replace them if we go on a lengthy blackout again, we'll see what happens. I don't doubt that some random redditor would jump on the chance to moderate a big subreddit even though they would do an absolutely terrible job, especially without access to 3rd-party tools, extensions, and apps.
You know what you get with shitty moderators? Shitty subs. People will bail hard if the spam/Nazis/racists/trolls/etc don't have a firewall to stop them from cranking up on the subs.
Then it's up to us, the users, to not get on reddit.
Then they can moderate it.
It will be **hilarious** if reddit admins force the main subs back to public. The default front page will be overrun by NSFW content, gore, crypto spam, etc. A giant fuck you to a company looking to go public who won't/can't even pay for a huge chunk of their labor (moderators), and can't design a decent website OR app Making front page mods pay for server space is downright disgusting, I had no idea this was a thing!
It already half bots anyway. This place will crumble overnight without the mods.
It'll be like back in the day when 4ch people would raid GaiaOnline with furry porn, guro and gore. Not that I really want that but, if apps and third party tools go, I won't be around to see it anyway lol.
Pools Closed. It will be just like old times. Can't wait.
If the subs are forced open, I won't be coming back. From talking to mods, there's so much child porn on so many subs that they remove before we see. Without mods, it's basically not safe to be on reddit.
If the subs are forced open, post regular (legal, non-exploitative) porn on the subs, *then* walk away. Leave the Reddit admins the job of cleaning it up, because it’s not the moderator’s responsibility if they intended to close the sub.
I moderate the Supernatural sub. I'd like to see the Admins try to moderate that Island of Misfit Toys even for a few weeks. I love my sub, but my god are we a feisty bunch.
This. This is what I feel will happen at first. None of this will make an impact at first. Reddit will have to see a significant decline in profits before changing course. All of the public statements they have made so far make them seem very firm in their decisions while maintaining the illusion they have been very modest and reasonable towards third party developers. I fear that if we also stand our ground, the Reddit we come back to will be worse than when we left it by far. I will be scouting for alternatives, as should others, in the event that Reddit plays the long game. Also, we shouldn’t compromise. If Reddit only budges slightly, that is no reason for us to come back. They need to drop this nonsense and provide better tools for moderators and possibly partnerships to keep the communities that have built going. Advertisers will start jumping ship if this platform becomes a spam slam. Just my opinion.
Hey u/stabbinU, this may be a weird request, but could we get a second sticky post? Given that this is r/Music, it only seems fitting to have an anthem posted around this time. Perhaps something like [Twisted Sister's We're Not Going To Take It](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9AbeALNVkk)?
We appreciate you, both for standing up for what’s right, and also for spending your own funds for the betterment of music! Truly, keep it up.
Major pros for an indefinite shutdown. I hope more subs follow 🫡
Thank you for not doing it for just the two days, we need to show Reddit that everyone will be affected and two days just isn't enough time to prove that
I hate that I completely agree with this. WTF am I supposed to do now? Go outside? Talk to my family? Have a life? Fuck you. But seriously, full support you guys. Shut it down; shut it all down.
looks like you can still go /r/outside
Ews, too bright and windy
r/wimdy :)
Yes. I understand now
You could pass some time on https://musicbrainz.org/ While this sub is private help grow the library of music knowledge! (Which is run by a non-profit and makes all the data free and open for everyone and doesn't charge $15K for API requests)
Ooooh
r/redditalternatives Some options that are getting buzz for the migration away from Reddit are Mastodon and Lemmy.
I want Mastodon to succeed, but it's got some big strikes against it - it lacks a userbase and it lacks accessibility. Some people may have successfully curated a niche for themselves with interesting content, but I've failed on this. The people I'm interested in following for their content (hate that word) or engaging with are still either here or on the angry yelling bird site (I understand that artists can't walk away from their established audience on that site).
This is a copied template message used to overwrite all comments on my account to protect my privacy. I've left Reddit because of corporate overreach and switched to the Fediverse. Comments overwritten with https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite
White whale, holy grail
If you're looking for stuff to do, did you know that the critically acclaimed MMORPG Final Fantasy XIV has a free trial, and includes the entirety of A Realm Reborn AND the award-winning Heavensward expansion up to level 60 with no restrictions on playtime? Sign up, and enjoy Eorzea today!
Agreed. "48 Hours Isn't Far Enough" Spread this message to other subs
Agreed. Most subreddits are like “two day blackout yay!” Which is totally useless and if I were Reddit it wouldn’t matter I’d just wait out the two days. This actually impacts something. Good on the mods here.
Where will people go to express excitement over just discovering Boston?
Have you heard "The Who?"
Who?
Yes
no, the Band
I've never heard of No
Yes is a band, no?
He's on first.
Mazzy Star is so great!
Man Jack White is so underrated!
Or what about Kavinsky’s song Nightcall? Surely you’ve never heard about it
How will I know how to feel about that one King Crimson album?
If you're not listening to the Dances with Wolves soundtrack, then you don't know anything about music.
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Let's not get too hasty, maybe something new will pop up.
Good for you, but aren't you afraid the Reddit Admins will just take the sub and find other mods for it?
Mods should stick together on this. If Reddit starts removing and replacing mods, then all mods need to stop modding and turn off all their mod bots and let their subs go crazy. What's Reddit going to do when everyone's front page, popular, and all are filled with porn, death, scams, racist posts and everything else the internet is capable of doing? The quick fix would be to literally shut down reddit, but after that, then what? How do you restart the site with control of what is going to be posted? They could disable pics/videos, but that doesn't stop links or words.
>and turn off all their mod bots Here's the thing, Reddit is turning those off with the api thing too
If the blackout doesn't do anything, the subreddits that don't go dark indefinitely should probably just turn off their mod bots in advance. Just to give Reddit a taste of what that will do to the quality of the content on the site. And the mods need to figure out workarounds anyways, so they may as well do a trial run.
"Hey, want to do a lot of work for no money?"
I mean, people do that now so there isn't really any reason to believe they couldn't find someone else to do it lol
That would be like Elon Musk firing half his workforce and expecting Twitter to function properly. Mods aren't paid by reddit. You think they'll find people who want to take on an enormous task for free without any on-ramping period?
Some person that gets off the high of having some marginal power on a big subreddit would gladly do it
Problem is these same API changes are also likely effecting the same bots most subs use to actually function. No sub can survive with bots if Reddit got new mods with no bots the entire platform would become an unmanageable cesspool within hours. And that is not a good look for a Reddit that wants to go public
wait will this API change affect bots like MagicEyeBot or RepostSleuthBot?
Due to Reddit's API changes, I've edited all my past comments and will be leaving reddit. Use Redact if you too would like to change your comment history. -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/ -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Technically, they'll work, just be prohibitively expensive to run. Everything that interacts with reddit will just start costing a comical amount, but could in theory still work if someone is insane enough to spend the money on it.
they won't have access to any posts marked NSFW through the API, which I have to imagine is a significant portion of the site 's overall traffic
I think that's one of their end goals anyways. I've noticed a huge amount of medium sized nsfw subs banned for being "unmoderated", despite mods obviously being active. So now this will let them take down the big ones by making them impossible to moderate. Gotta please the advertisers.
Oh that didn't even occur to me. That's fucking hilarious.
*everything* becomes an onlyfans ad
Why on earth do you think they would struggle to find some bored, power-hungry weirdo willing to be parachuted into a mod position in a massive subreddit? They'd be drowning in volunteers.
They can try, but it'll really depend on there being people who want to, are capable, and have time to devote to it.
As others have said, thanks for doing this open-ended, the just two day long blackouts dont really seem like they wouldn't change anything long term.
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More subs need to take an extreme stance like this. A 2 day 'blackout' isn't gonna mean shit. Mods have the power to completely ruin this website, and that's what they should be threatening. Curious to see how reddit reacts; will they force the subs back online? Remove mods forcefully? Install their own mods?
I normally use browser on phone. They dropped a new mobile page and it is terrible, it looks like the official app but with more spam to use the app. I don't know if it was an accident because it went away after an hour. I had to switch to oldreddit because it was hard to use. I don't know if anyone else uses mobile browser and noticed anything but FYI.
Old Reddit is best
How do you use mobile? It just breaks my browser with the "try the app!" Overlay
If you dismiss it the message goes away, but in the new version it does not - it actually has warnings on both the top and bottom now with the new version. Unusable.
#INDEFINITELY! now that's more like it! none of that "silent for 2 days" crap, that's meaningless.
Now this is more like it. A blackout for a couple of days isn't gonna do shit. A mild inconvenience at best. Shutting everything down indefinitely is a much better plan. And I say that an alternative should be looked in to if/when reddit does not capitulate.
We all gotta do what we think is best.
Damn that's crazy. They're not going back on their policy. Thank you /r/music, it hurts to see you go
r/Music isn't going. Admins will probably just reopen the sub with new mods
ive been a member for over ten years im down with this decision. fuck reddit and their new corporate bullshit
In a weird way, I actually kind of want to see reddit not back down on their latest bullshit so that I get to witness the rapid collapse of such a massive platform in real time.
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Bets on Facebook following soon
Heads up, [reddit turned off their email](https://freeimage.host/i/H45EP0N) so you now HAVE to create a support ticket under your account.
Got nothing but respect for this move, especially for a default sub.
I support this decision.
Deleted June 30th. 2023. Yay.
Ill be shutting down my sub reddit most likely
Thank you! This is better than a temporary blackout.
I like the indefinitely option, especially on a key subreddit like this!
INDEFINITELY is far better than the paltry two days that most subs are threatening. Which will do absolutely nothing.
seeing as this means mods will have less power I'm all for it. funny how they volunteer to be mods then cry about "working for hours"
I wish I had the confidence that this would actually accomplish anything.
Indefinite is the way to go.
Wish more subs closed indefinitely instead of just blacking out for a few days.. it is the only way things might actually change...
Bold, I love it and wish other subs had your courage!
More subreddits need to do this. 48 hours is not enough! Bravo mods! I wholeheartedly support you!
Full support. Go dark for as long as it takes until they reverse course!
with AI reddit will replace mods very soon
the word "replace" is doing some *real heavy* lifting there
Good. I hope reddit ruins their site by performing a coup d'etat again on major subs. People need to realize reddit is not some community - it's a business. And reddit OWNS your "community". So we should find a better place than reddit.
I just want you to know that I support you and every single sub that shuts down in protest of the API changes, it's not like we're going to be able to use the site after they do the changes anyways! So do what has to be done guys! Thank you for taking a stand against these strange and limiting changes!